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dykedvonte · 7 days ago

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You ever just see a Mouthwashing take that makes you want to bang your head into a wall? I literally just saw someone claim Curly couldn't have been emotionally abused by Jimmy before the crash because he was in a higher position of power than Jimmy.

-Shrimp Anon

The mouthwashing fandom has shown me that people genuinely do believe that certain types of abuse are not as detrimental as other types especially when they deem those immune/resistant, ergo, believing one is objectively worse no matter how it affects the person nor the intersections of power, history and dynamics at play.

Get ready cause this is a yap session:

Cause like it's heavily implied that Curly and Jimmy's friendship was toxic and abusive, pointedly in the direction of how Jimmy uses Curly's belief/comfort in him. Curly wasn't forced to enable Jimmy but he was emotional and mentally on edge around him in almost every scene in some way. Mental and emotional abuse are not contingent on what positions you have at work. Yeah, he's Jimmy's boss but he was Jimmy's friend first and it's like getting into Psych discussion to talk about how social power tends to overshadow any perceived organizational power in the human mind. People are concerned about their jobs ofc but they tend to hang onto and put more value/investment into their personal relationships, hence why there tends to be laws and restrictions around mixing the two.

I always see the sentiments that "Curly is a grown ass man", "Curly is bigger than Jimmy", "Curly is Jimmy's boss", "He just needed a backbone" as criticisms of Curly and while I do agree that on the surface level all of these to be true and viable ways Curly could've taken more control of the situation, I often look at the parallels of Anya and Curly as victims of Jimmy pre/post crash.

The way Jimmy talks to Anya post crash is how he talked to Curly in the pre-crash segments. It's hard to pin-point mainly because we know he hates and wants nothing to do with Anya compared to his contrary but similarly handled obsessions with Curly. It's a weird sort of "honey-moon" effect of abuse Jimmy does in terms of emotional and mental victimization. He is always horrid to Anya, always talking down or questioning her abilities and thoughts in a situation, this of course includes the harassment and assault. However, he has a moment of attempted gentleness/conditioning when he question her about the mouthwash when she's contemplating drinking it at the table. The key difference is he has no personal investment in Jimmy outside wanting nothing to do with him, meaning there is no sort of romanticized version of him that he can condition her off of. He knows this, hence, why he always reverts to trying to make her to scared to oppose him.

This sort of give and take of "kindness" doesn't work on her because she knows he is just doing it to take more from her than whatever he could possibly give but it reflects even the "softer" scenes between him and Curly where he always rewords or rephrases Curly's sentiments and concerns to sound more shallow. He is feigning a deeper understanding by reworking Curly's emotions into something bad and needing to be hidden. Everything is laced with envy and resentment, an outburst just around the corner, I mean he even slams the table in the birthday party scene, a tactic in emotional manipulation to set the victim on edge and cloud their ability to respond. Even if Curly knows Jimmy won't get physical in that moment, the physical actions is intended to make him back down in the confrontation in case it does. This is something that is just not person specific. It ingrains itself into how you interact with the world and life and it shows in major and minor ways with Curly.

Post-crash, the abusive nature is more in tandem to the physical victimization Anya went through and the stripping of voice and autonomy we see take place. Like the parasite in HFIM, Jimmy speaks for Curly most of the time and puts words in his mouth, similarly to how he takes Anya's plans as his own. He very commonly, with the both of them mind you, supplements the worst aspects of himself into them; pettiness, selfishness, lack of understanding... And tries to cover himself with their best qualities; kindness, planning, initiative, etc...

These parallel are just to say that positional power has little to do with if a person can be abused and how it can even be flipped to further the abuse. There is no doubt that Curly could've picked up on Jimmy's envy of his position hence another reason he never confronted him as a Captain but as a friend as doing so would immediately put Jimmy in a space to be confrontational/combative.

I think the disdain some people have when they talk about the heavily implied if not implicitly stated emotional/mental abuse Curly experienced being Jimmy's friend is when treating it as an excuse to why he didn't do more. I can understand that completely because it is not an excuse to why he didn't do more but is a very real reason people in his position in these scenarios can experience whether in the context of a work or social environment. However, I also think the way people talk about it really does demonstrate a bigger problem when talking about abuse when somehow who is/was abused is either part of the issue or enabled it.

Harkening back to the sentiments about Curly's inaction regarding Jimmy, I think the exact phrases I used/have seen show how there is an inherent belief that it is easier to overpower the effects of emotional/mental abuse that go in tandem with the perception of Curly as someone who should be able to. There is not an age you suddenly stop being susceptible to abuse nor a set point or low where you realize how it has affected you. You don't suddenly know to stand up or put a face on to face your abuser nor admit that you inadvertently enabled them to subjugate someone else to the same treatment. Maybe it's my psych brain but their is this growing belief that direct action is somehow easy or always the best method with the game shows you instances where it is not always the case. In real life that rings true too. He should have done more, but it's not impossible to see why he struggled to find a way or didn't even if it makes us mad.

It's not easy to suddenly gain a "back-bone". You don't immediately want to resort to aggression, especially if it mirrors the type you were a victim to. You don't want to believe you allowed yourself to be treated this bad, let it get that bad or allowed something bad to happen to someone else. It is easy to be in denial, to retreat to your thoughts or make excuses to avoid the painful truth. It's frustrating but in a way we know is relatable. It why we both hate and love Curly for it. We know we'd be better, we think we'd be better, we like to think we wouldn't falter in the same ways but it's always easier to say that from the outside looking in. It's easy to see what he was doing wrong because we are seeing it, not him, but the game really does make you picture what you would do if this was your raw reality and it's why this debate about Curly seems so never ending/contradictory. We can all say what we'd do but bottom line is that's much different when you're in the moment with all the emotions and human feelings attached.

I personally think Mouthwashing tackles the themes of rape culture, enabling, toxic masculinity, types of abuse and patriarchy in ways that are meant to deconstruct the typical straightforward views we mostly have of these concepts and how little subtilities of them are just as, if not more, detrimental than the overt/obvious parts. The game deals with the idea of little details and bigger picture in a way to show that sometimes the bigger picture is not the issue but the little details that make it up. It's why I have a personal dislike of depictions of Jimmy as the typical horrible person who would of course do something like this because the game is about noticing the little warning signs, the foreshadowing and foresight.

It's why I dislike the typical discussion of "bro code" and "boys will be boys" for the game because the game makes a point to avoid the standard depictions of such. It is about the type of men who still enable despite not condoning, agreeing or even perpetuating harmful beliefs because they can't see the little details or the ways it seeps into their everyday. The severity is not obvious to them as it was not obvious to Curly, Swansea or even Daisuke the way it was to a woman like Anya. There are little details about Jimmy that should ring alarms but if you are too naive like Daisuke, too distant like Swansea or too conditioned like Curly, they are just off markers.

There is 100% more constructive/concise ways to say "Curly was a victim of Jimmy's abuse on an emotional and mental aspect that clouded his judgements and perceptions in the scenario" while also critiquing on the side of "Curly still had a responsibility to protect Anya as a crew mate and Captain that he failed to do due to biases and stigma's he failed to surpass" without the weird condemnation people give him about should've knowing better than to let himself be manipulated by a person he considered a close, if not family/best-friend and had his own reasons to trust initially. Also stop being weird about victims of abuse in general with this fandom, like sorry not everyone has a like social epiphany the moment someone's nasty to them. People are treating it like you immediately know when you are in a toxic relationship immediately or comprehend when a person is actively dangerous and either it's your fault for not knowing how to leave/cut them off or you deserve it. Like the hypocrisy of people believing how certain fans treat the story reflect their irl views but not their own is crazy.

End statement is: I honestly don't even know man, I've been writing this too long and just like no man on that ship was perfect or really helped Anya when it mattered and I feel like pitting them against each other in discussion on who did the least or most or how it was justified sucks cause in the end Anya always did the most and best thing for herself.

#i also think it is because mouthwashing is first and foremost a game about rape culture and the patriarchy especially in work spaces #regarding women and centering conversation around Curly a man rubs people wrong because it does overshadow that commentary #but it still mixes other topics into its initial theming and message on how abuse conditions you to accept certain things that are harmful #and how getting used to a culture/enviornment does not mean you are happy healthy or most importantly safe in it. I personally like to #explore those aspects where it mixes all the themes so we can discuss the ways you have to watch out for things because there is a differen #in the idea Curly enabled Jimmy just because they were bros and because he was an example of another man afraid to step out from what #is a still oppressive system that does try to punish those who act against it even if they fall in the category of those who would benefit #from it as Jimmy and PE 100% represent that sort of misogynistic system where men that would be “good” are altered until they follow line #in a way both on the personal and professional level as PE is the corporate lock out and Jimmy represents the social and its just the issue #that the discussion of it sounds like “in defense of men” when I am more so trying to discuss how it is much deeper than men being scared t #upset other men but complacency is rewarded by not becoming another person subjugated hence as all the moments Curly does try to do #something we can tie it back to how Jimmy reacts and a possible penality from PE where we now need to address the ways to combat those #two concepts so we dont get cases like Curly or Daisuke or Swansea where male avoidance of the issue is considered neutral or even good.#i think most of this boils down the perfect victim mentality to where if someone who underwent or is being abused is not a perfect example #or accpetible type than their abuse can not be considered a valid or substantial reason for effects on their behavior compounded with the #fact that Anya's abuse at the hands of Jimmy is a systematic issue that Curly is a part of even if unwillingly and was more physically #violating and topical cause sometimes i have to remind myself that all media is still critiqued through the lens of the culture it came out #in cause i do think about what if this game came out inlike 2014 like the conversations would be sooooooo different could you imagine it?#but back the before statement Curly isn't perfect but I feel like boiling it down if hes a good person or man is not the point of the game #but more so good people can still be part of the problem and the idea of condemning a person for one act creates a false sense of #rightouesness and justice that does not aid the victim and in fact aids the abusers in escaping blame for their mulitple behaviors as we se #how the men on the ship tend to blame Jimmy for just one act against them including himself while there is a plethora of things Anya is #concerned about with Jimmy #and its not that Curly just made one mistake with Jimmy but more so we consider his actions more damning because he didn't stop Jimmy #instead of focusing on the fact Jimmy did what he did regardless of Curly and the consequence because we already know he's bad n maladjuste #which is problem in the conversation where the individuals are blamed but the system and perputrator are overlooked in a sense of acceptiab #complacency as we know how they are and the lack of tangibility to personally affect them on a larger scale like I should just make a post #on like cutting out the face when it comes it confronting systems of oppression rather than tag talking but just ask me to clarify if #you want that like im jus trying to say we avoid talking about Jimmy and PE so much cause it is obvious what they do wrong that we make #the initial and inherent problem out to be one aspect someone in this case Curly does and the the constraints they use to force actions

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starkittnd93 · 5 months ago

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Based off of a thing I said a little earlier, I think they’d get along if they met!

#starkitt doodles #cyrus albright #hikari ku #octopath traveler #octopath traveler 2 #I imagine at some point the conversation topic would switch to them talking about how the power of friendship affects magic or something #at that point Osvald would actually join in the discussion XD #but. FINALLY… I MANAGED TO DRAW SOMETHING!!!!!

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statementlou · 5 months ago

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https://www.tumblr.com/louisupdates/754934426217152513/goodbye-faith-in-the-future-world-tour-272024?source=share

did he or did he not lose fans then?

I will answer this because this anon actually brings a concrete question to the table rather than just "hurhur but you're a larrie??" (tell me you can't actually refute any of our points…). Anyway this post shows the decrease in Louis instagram followers between the screenshots taken directly after the release of Faith in the Future in Nov '22, when he changed his bio to promote that album and the tour tickets, and now, when he changed it again to mention the current release. But I'm putting that response under a cut because I'm tired of the actual POINT of all this nonsense getting lost in a sea of made up things people insist are important:

There is no rational argument you can make to say that Louis has less fans now than he did 2, 4, or 6 years ago. You don't need a spreadsheet of details you need to USE YOUR EYES! He has gone from filling theaters to filling arenas and stadiums. His second album made a higher chart position than his first album. His festival has doubled in size EVERY year of its existence. And for that matter: his insta post engagement numbers remain about the same (despite the fact that older posts should have way MORE likes due to having been there longer, even aside from follower counts.) SO WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT HIS INSTA FOLLOWER NUMBER???? Serious question: what does the word "fans" mean if these things aren't what matters? ALL of this quibbling about what he should do to make things better and people can't even see that THINGS AREN'T BAD.

Anyway to address the specific question- (con't......)

NO- HE DID NOT LOSE FANS. HE LOST SOME INSTA FOLLOWERS. THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. As I said above, literally what does it mean to lose fans if that number change coincides with him having higher sales, more audience members, and higher engagement than ever before? Whatever he lost ISN'T FANS. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant factor was something like a bot purge, but also yes: I'm sure a lot of casuals followed him around the time of his big album release and later unfollowed him. That's extremely normal because that's how casual engagement works, and why the definition of fan really matters. Louis and his team understand this and have referenced it repeatedly, talking about how lucky he is to have *us* specifically, to have the kind of dedicated fanbase he has, to have the KIND of fans he does who will allow him to do what HE wants. @dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram named the issue of depth vs breadth with regard to fans a long time ago, and pointed out why having DEPTH is so much more important. It's like this- artists who are on top 40 radio have more numbers on things like insta follows, and for a time on sales and tickets. But those aren't FANS- they're people with a casual interest. And as soon as that person isn't being forced in their ears 10x a day, those people lose interest and stop supporting them, stop buying stuff and unfollow, and those artists end up doing the 'opener on the jingle ball' circuit rather than their own tours. One Direction as a whole, and Louis maybe most of all or near to at this point, have something MUCH MORE VALUABLE than that- DEPTH FANS. Louis has fans who will support him even if he takes years to release music, or stops parading around with a pretend girlfriend to stay in the headlines at least once a month, or completely changes his image and genre, and that is UNHEARD OF. It's ASTONISHING and worth SO MUCH MORE. And they get that! THAT is why he always bragging about us, why industry people he works with are always so agog about us, why he will do anything for US- not for randos. He is also growing his breadth- and it's OBVIOUSLY WORKING whatever his follower counts are, but that is always going to be secondary to doing things for THE FANDOM because that is his sustainable business model. That is what keeps him onstage and reaching number one. And not coincidentally, the things they do are also working to grow that- much more valuable- commodity. So the fact that that's exactly what these chuckleheads complain about- that he does things that are just fandom facing or serving rather than everything being aimed at recruiting casual fans- does nothing but betray how completely they, unlike Louis and his team, misunderstand the actual drivers of his (actual, existing, happening) success. Luckily for Louis, he and his team rely on their own data harvesting (they do a LOT of it) and growth metrics (they're off the charts) rather than the smug assumptions of random (mostly quite new to this) fans and the few bitter people leading the complaining about everything Louis does.

#louis promo #all this nonsense about this tag or that tag or this or that number is so getting lost in the trees #when the forest is RIGHT HERE: WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WORKING #so for now #I'm pretty done with this discussion unless someone actually engages meaningfully with the content of anything I'm saying #rather than just repeating the same things- but he needs to tag more! or the even more boring-#but you're a larry! if you send me a bitchy response that doesnt actually address any points I've made #I will assume it is because I'm right and you have no rebuttal other than to act like a preschooler because deep down you know it #honestly the discourse around this makes me feel a little sad and scared about the state of literacy and reading comprehension #and just general analytical thinking #but I hope its just that no one over 15 spends their time sending hate anons about fandom #if I'm wrong please come engage in actual conversation! but otherwise... let's just... not #blah blah blah #anyway there's a reason Louis is always so afraid no one will be there for him and that he started out solo era playing those radio fests..#because we are IMPROBABLE we are UNBELIEVABLE we are NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN EXPECT OR COUNT ON #and making nurturing and maintaining that his number one priority ALWAYS is extremely correct and smart #actually #I was originally going to be like here are when there were bot purges here are other artists that have seen numbers go down etc #but then I was like WAIT WHO CARES. You're letting these people dictate the conversation... but the premise is stupid #it DOESNT MATTER #depth v breadth

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littlespoonevan · 6 days ago

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#obviously i am Thrilled with all the buddie goodness we got this ep #but one thing about this whole eddie/chris storyline that is driving me absolutely UP THE WALLS #is that there has just been absolutely Zero realistic communication about any of it from the audience's perspective #we don't hear anything about logistics in the moments where chris is actually leaving #(about how long he'll be gone for/if it's just for the summer/etc etc)#which whatever fine tim wanted it to be dramatic #but still in season 8 we don't know if there's been any discussion with chris OR helena and ramon about when/if he should be coming home #like you can infer if you want that the diaz parents have no intention of giving up chris and this was the plan all along #but tbh even that is largely extrapolation on the fandom's part bc they haven't told us anything!!!!!!#two facetimes and three conversations eddie's had with people that Aren't his parents is not enough!!!!#and i know it's the Eddie Diaz Routine(tm) to jump to the most extreme possible conclusion re him moving back to el paso #but WHY have we gotten no indication at all that he's attempted to talk this out with chris at some point in the last 5 months???????????#the dust settled a long time ago and eddie has Always been so good at talking to chris even when it's a difficult subject #i refuse to believe we're in last resort territory i'm sorry askdfjhsa #i want to write something about it but there's so much to tackle i don't even know where to start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#anyway yes i know i was the one pointing out last week that storylines 8 seasons in are not going to be top notch but that doesn't negate #my frustration aksdjfhsih #tbd

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schneiderenjoyer · 11 months ago

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UTTU Catalogue's Categories

There's a lot about UTTU that still is unknown and they operate strangely. I've seen some conversations about it, but out of everything that's making me lose my mind is the Category Covers.

The implication of Categories creating a diverse subculture (and potentially subspecies) of arcanists within the arcane community aside, the covers literally tell us the very essence of the arcanists categorized within it are. All hidden by the fine print (seriously they're hiding the words and shrinking the letters and blending it into the colors on purpose, it's so hard to see)

The clearest one I can read full is for Arcanists; "The two-faced are among them. Born to Suffer." It's a strangely poetic way to describe how arcanists, in human society, are viewed to be ill fated people. Thus, they're born to suffer for their nature.

There's also Awakened; "Backdoor listing, welcome to the phenomenon world." Which is interesting since we know the arcanists listed in this category have a far more bizarre and even unknown way they're born and became arcanists. A form of "backdoor" approach to being born an arcanist. A Phenomenon, if you will.

The Beyond is a little hard to read near the end, but it states; "Under the surface, I know nothing but the fact of my ignorance." And who is in that category? Jessica. There's also words covered that make the word WHO and a cut off line that says "Cannot spe? spa?" Does it refer to the fact that Voyager doesn't speak?

The Mixed is even harder to really read for me, but I can make out is the half the phrase of "Where did the rationality go... -----" like it's questioning where they went wrong in the gene process to not be 'logical' enough for human society, but just 'irrational' enough to stand among arcanists yet not fully belong. A lovely commentary on mixed races.

Lastly, the reason I'm writing this whole thing, is for the Infected. Why? Well, one, we now have an official arcanist categorized to it, Ezra Theodore. (This has now been debunked and instead replaced with a far more infuriating revelation here.) And for the unofficial...

SLAMS TABLE

IT'S SCHNEIDER, YES, THIS IS ANOTHER OF MY LONG DELULU RANT ABOUT HOW WE GOT SCAMMED SO HARD DURING BETA AND LOST OUR CHANCE AT A PLAYABLE ITALIAN MAFIA GODDESS. I'M MAKING MY STANCE, BLUEPOCH PLEA--

Anyway.

The caption for this category is ominous, threatening even, being; "We know who you are and we will visit the visitors." And for those who don't know why this is important. This category pertains to one of the most fascinating cases.

Because it's for humans that can use arcanum.

Not that they have an arcane bloodline, no. They're pure blooded human that can use arcanum. And that spells a fucked up implication that could mean all sorts of things. One being human experimentation. And UTTU knows something and are making sure people in this category understood that even if they can use arcanum, they're not arcanists. Like many arcanists, they're keeping the line between humans and arcanists very clear. Even calling the category "Infected" like it's a virus, a plague. Something dirty that entered their veins.

UTTU is fascinating in this regard and I hope to see more about them in the future the more times they have these flash events and maybe even someday fully explored more in depth to its lore.

#reverse 1999 #reverse 1999 lore discussion #I'm not normal for Schneider forgive me but I'm not sorry #if me being obsessed with her fuels my desire to make deeply profound conversations about something as simple as the UTTU COVER PAGE #then I'll let it happen and I will keep screaming for my bbygirl back till my dying days

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