#They killed off Jason again

[lace4forest]

So that new DC Issue was a thing :)

[necrotic-nephilim]

this is not a ship post, but something that frustrates me a lot in fanon concerning Jason Todd that attempts to soften Jason's return to Gotham for the sake of found family domesticity or easy hurt/comfort or just sliding him into the Batfam sooner, is they all seem to fundamentally misunderstand Jason.

because there seem to be a lot of fandom popular concepts of Jason coming home much sooner and just not having his whole Under The Red Hood arc. which in theory is fine and i can see the want to simplify canon to make room for your lighthearted more fluff-leaning concepts. but in everyone without fail, the way they address the clown-shaped elephant in the room is by having some throwaway line that "oh Jason quietly kills the Joker and moves on".

when the Joker being dead or alive is not the *point*. if by some chance accident, the Joker had died prior to Jason's return, whether by ridiculous freak accident, getting whacked by a fellow villain, hell even someone actually doing so to avenge Jason, it *would not* satiate Jason's anger. because Jason's end goal in UtRH is not to simply kill the Joker: it is to make *Bruce* kill the Joker. Jason's anger is directed to the idea that to Jason, if Bruce truly loved Jason, he would've killed the Joker. that is love, for Jason. compromising your personal values for love and not letting someone go unavenged. when Jason was Robin, almost every angry or misguided thing he did was born of love. he wanted to kill/hurt Two-Face because he believed Dent killed his father. he was so angry at Felipe because an innocent woman was dead due to that man's actions. he wanted to save his mother in a situation he knew he shouldn't be in because he loved her. his anger, his violence, it is driven by love and feelings of righting wrongs. that is how he thinks wrongs *should* be righted. that is how you avenge and *love* someone.

because so long as Jason's return to Gotham doesn't end in Bruce killing the Joker (which, it never will bc Bruce is Bruce), Jason will never forgive Bruce. you cannot wave away the layers of hurt and complicated trauma by killing Joker offscreen. because Jason will still be angry that Bruce didn't avenge him. in his eyes, that means Bruce did not love him enough. he was not truly loved by Bruce the way he loved Bruce. bc Bruce was Jason's whole *world*. prior to being taken in, Dick and Tim, they had support systems. they had loved ones. they knew what stability and healthy family love looked like. Jason *didn't*. and that's not to say that Catherine Todd did not love him with her whole heart and thus he loved her, but it certainly wasn't a stable and safe support system for Jason to grow up in. Bruce was Jason's first real sense of a stable, healthy life. and so of course Jason poured everything into Bruce and loved Bruce so devoutly. Bruce was his world. like he says, if it had been Bruce, Jason would've stopped at nothing.

so his betrayal is rooted in that he was not avenged, not that Joker is alive. so long as the Joker does not die by Bruce's hands, it will never be enough for Jason. (in this era, at least.) notably, this is also why i don't think it would change a thing if Jason knew the whole "oh Bruce wanted to kill the Joker but Superman stopped him" tidbit that fanon has really latched onto as a way to pacify Jason's anger toward Bruce. Jason knowing that wouldn't change a thing, in my opinion. because Jason knows Bruce. and a tenant of Bruce's character is that he grapples with murder *every day*. the whole point is how *easy* it would be for him. he is a human weapon, trained by killers, trained to be deadly. he is the greatest strategist to exist. he knows he could kill someone and get away with it. *no* trace, no proof, nothing. and he knows he *wants* to. wants to kill the Joker, Joe Chill, anyone who's hurt him that viscerally.

but he *doesn't*. that's the point. Bruce wakes up every day with that question on his mind, and every day the answer is the same. Bruce's morality is not a decision he made in an alleyway when his parents died, it's a decision he continues to make every day and he *must* continue to make in order to remain who he is. Jason is quite familiar with the fact that Bruce grapples with this daily. i do not think it surprised nor fazed Jason to know that Bruce did *consider* killing the Joker. that he wanted to. maybe even planned to. but a consideration, a want, a plan, is just a thought. it's nothing substantial, and substance is everything to Jason. at the end of the day, Bruce didn't. he was talked down by *Clark* of all people with an excuse of diplomatic immunity, as if Jason and Bruce don't both know that Bruce could've *easily* found a way to make it look like an accident or some other loophole. because he's Batman. there's always a loophole. he always finds a way when he actually intends to. but he never actually intended to kill the Joker. so he didn't. and Jason would know that there was never an intent. it's an interesting piece of fodder to add to the nuance of Jason and Bruce, but honestly, i think it'd make Jason angrier to have that excuse thrown in his face. as if Bruce hasn't beaten Clark half a dozen times by now. it's a flimsy nonsense excuse that Jason would rip to shreds.

so while yes, i understand the wish for easy lighthearted fanfic that doesn't have to deal with the nuances of canon, i think that Jason's character will always be so deeply robbed and altered if you try to fix his thirst for vengeance with an off-page killing of Joker at Jason's hands. it was never the point. the point was that -in his own eyes- he wasn't loved enough for Bruce to make an acception. he realized that not even his *death* would come before Bruce's Mission. Jason truly believed that Bruce loved him and held him as the most important thing in the world, and now he has proof that Bruce didn't. because the Mission mattered more.

i'm not saying i have a solution to this conundrum if you're attempting to solve it for fanfic/fanon, nor am i even saying it's a bad thing it exists. i just think it becoming overwhelmingly common has led to misunderstandings surrounding Jason's motivations and feelings about this arc and it's an unsatisfying solution that only seeks to pacify Jason's rage and his trauma responses for the sake of found family-ification.

[thelilylav]

We only see each other at funerals

(On Jason, Thalia, Nico, Bianca, and their parallels/connections)

The Titan's Curse (Rick Riordan), @/anxiousmaya_, Right Now (Gracie Abrams), The Battle of the Labyrinth (Rick Riordan), Joan of Arc (Mary Gordon), The Lost Hero (Rick Riordan), Episodes Toward and Elegy for Halley's Comet (Lindsey Drager), Jason Grace (Riordan Wiki), The Gods Show Up (Michael Kinnucan), The House of Hades (Rick Riordan), What the Living Do (Marie Howe), The House of Hades (Rick Riordan), Planet of Love (Richard Siken), The Blood of Olympus (Rick Riordan), Tangerine (Nolune), The Blood of Olympus (Rick Riordan), The Blood of Olympus (Rick Riordan), I Bet On Losing Dogs (Mitski), The Burning Maze (Rick Riordan), @/abhorarchive (Twitter), The Burning Maze (Rick Riordan), Seventeen (MARINA), The Burning Maze (Rick Riordan), @/rollercoasterwords, The Tyrant's Tomb (Rick Riordan), @/the-overanalyst, Where Things Come Back (John Corey Whaley), Grit (Silas Denver Martin), Softcore (The Neighbourhood), The Tower of Nero (Rick Riordan), Frost (Mitski), @/moonbends, I'm Your Man (Mitski), Sun Bleached Flies (Ethel Cain), The Tower of Nero (Rick Riordan), Three (Sleeping At Last), My Art

[adelinamoteru]

its kinda crazy that yall will apply real world politics and situations to gotham when it comes to jason and his ‘vigilantism’, but never choose to take that angle when analyzing any other bat character’s

brother eye from batman? hello? does constant nonconsensual surveillance seem like an ethical way to keep an eye on supposed allies or stop crime in real life? does beating people up until they comply with u (under fucking duress) seem like the ethical way to produce testimonies and confessions?

but nah, one speech from jason in utrd and yall are up in arms about how nothing he’s saying is actually conducive to lowering crime rates.

at the end of the day, it doesn’t fucking matter who’s right and who’s wrong regarding these morals in real life because the dc universe is so fucking far from reality in the crime that the justice system has to deal with. there is no point in arguing a reality standpoint if its not going to be applied to vigilantism in the bat comics as a whole.

and on the topic of fiction, the willful ignorance as to how jason’s story also portrays a victims revenge/justice is just boring at this point. how are themes in a narrative not coming through to you. especially when doing literature analysis for any of these comics.

[that-one-annoying-fan-girl]

I swear if they fucking killed off Jason Todd again for real, DC better be ready because I am about to go off on a rampage worse than when Jason first became red hood

[thejasontoddarchives]

There’s a general consensus that above all else Jason should be homicidal again. However I think what’s also very important is that he should be a fucking hoot.

There’s nothing not funny about this entire bit.

1. He couldn’t give less of a shit about explaining that he’s single-handedly trying to stop a terrorist attack. Obviously cause he’s short on time, but even if he had all the time in the world he would still be this indifferent towards explaining himself to cops.

2. This bomb is seconds away from exploding but he’s at most mildly annoyed like he’s in the office doing some menial task.

3. The perfectly timed British jokes.

4. Circling back to number 1 on the list. After he throws the bomb into the water he just dips. For all they know he’s the (weird) terrorist. (But as long as everyone’s okay he doesn’t care! The beauty of Jason Todd everybody).

This one is funny (but it’s also true)? Like yes … that is exactly what you are. (A sweet, kind-hearted goodboy learning how to effectively poison people, shoot guns, and blow shit up with all manner of explosives like a certified pro).

Bonus:

Red Hood: The Lost Days #5 (2010-)

Red Hood: The Lost Days #4 (2010-)

“Not so irritating for an American” is a far more impressive title than “genius” if you ask me. Although I think Jason balances both pretty well.

[autisticrosewilson]

So sick and tired of you bitches saying that Jason possibly being assaulted WHICH HAS BEEN IMPLIED MULTIPLE TIMES BOTH WHEN HE WAS ROBIN AND IN MODERN COMICS (not the Talia thing that was bullshit) WAS STOLEN FROM MIA!! DO YOU GUYS THINK THAT MIA IS THE ONLY CHARACTER EVER WHO HAS EVER HAD THIS SPECIFIC TRAUMA START BEING SERIOUS RN

[siren-of-the-ocean-tumbls]

I feel like we as a Fandom need a term for how often the Batkids die/are presumed dead in order to promote growth in Bruce as a character. And not their own.

The fact that I can think of MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF THIS HAPPENING is kind of stressing me out

[introspectivememories]

cannot stop thinking about lupa and juno's reactions to jason's death. god did juno feel it when he died? did she hear his string get cut? did she wail loud enough that all of olympus heard it? what was it like realizing the boy she loved like a son was dead? was was it like watching his father not even shed a tear? was she the one to tell lupa? and on lupa's end, how angry do you think she was? this is her pup. her youngest pup. he was so young when he first started, when juno first gave him to her? he learned how to roughhouse with her packmates. he learned to fly with her! did she snap at juno? did she scream and curse and blame juno? did she howl mournfully?

[azuree1733]

Y’all know I had to draw my boy

[jasontoddenthusiastt]

The New Titans #55 (1989)

Batman (2010-) #641

…

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016-) #6

…

…

…

Batman and Red Hood (2011-) #20

…

Batman (2016-) #138

They sure do bAT&Tman. They sure as hell do.

Yet Jason never thought this way about you.

[littlefankingdom]

~ Batman: Knightfall

[Broken Bat: 5/6]

The part of Bruce that wants to join Jason in death (see Broken Bat: 3) has won. He has no energy, no determination to fight. He is accepting death.

The issue started with "Feel so bad, I want to die." and it ends with the same words, now even more true. Bruce wants to die. "And I'm done." He gives up.

But Bane? Bane decides that killing Batman isn't what he wants actually. He needs him alive and in pain, broken, forever.

[necrotic-nephilim]

jason with bwg!tim

Tim: I think I'm being hunted by an evil version of myself.

Jason: Is he hot?

Tim: He's trying to kill me.

Jason: That's not a no.

i'm CRYING this has been in my inbox for a month bc i laugh every time i read it. i can't stop giggling over it. this is funny in so many ways and i want to frame it on my wall.

honestly this just tempts me to write a threesome with Tim selfcest bc Jason would try to fuck gun Batman!Tim, whether he and Tim are together or not. and in trying to stop it somehow Tim ends up in the middle and is fucked by both of them questioning what brought his life to this position. and gun Batman!Tim would try to kill Tim at the end of it anyway. Jason eventually stops him but he does watch longer than he should bc this is honestly free porn for him. it's everything he wants Tim to be versus everything Tim already is. there is no escaping for either Tim bc they're just caught in Jason's grasp.

[capt-ann]

All I’ve been saying is R*ck Riordan never deserved such a complex and wonderful character that is Jason Grace.

[zorilleerrant]

to be fair, tho. many Wonder Woman writers make her entire story about a man. like. many

[bodyfrmabalcony]

actually sorry to be back at this again but i did have slightly more to say about tim and jason (see last post i reblogged)

that post does a lot of analysis that i enjoyed re: their read on what tim is dream hallucinating jason saying re: his own death and i had a couple thoughts i wanted 2 add to that. tldr they r saying that this is wayy more about tim than it is about jason and i super agree. i said something about jason's line saying he killed himself in my tim post from last week, but it was kinda reductive, where i said basically yeah that sure sounds like like a way bruce might describe it!! but i don't really think that's the whole story - my more genuine nuanced take on that is a little more like: it sounds an awful lot like what a scared kid might imagine that bruce saying about what happened to a robin who fucks up, i.e., not something bruce said about jason but something tim is afraid bruce would say (or think) about tim if tim went the same way as jason

being a martyr and a cautionary tale and a failure - his own or bruce's - are all stacked up on top of each other w/ jason, and tim just kind of. has all that. to deal with. the linked post gets way into how tim is reacting to his mom's death, which is so so interesting to me, bc tim is clearly soo scared of his grief disqualifying him from everything else he wants and feels like he needs to do. he's scared he won't be able to be robin bc bruce sees him compromised by his grief, so he's got to grieve Just Right, at the same time that he's basically trying to take on bruce's grief for jason. the kid is in the poster house for Grief Alters Your Life In Ways You Can't Control and he's still trying to grieve correctly. oof.

and back to tim's relationship to jason post-jason's death, it's so interesting in every direction, but specifically a big thing to me is that on some level jason is not real. like he is, obviously, but tim didn't meet him and he's never going to. he's not dick, a man tim can remember as a child and whose apartment he can break into as a slightly older child. he's not bruce, a guy whose basement tim can end up standing in if he tries hard enough. he doesn't! exist! you don't get to meet dead men! jason doesn't need to be pinned down as tim's hero or tim's fear or tim's resentment, bc the most important thing is that he's just a story. he's just an idea.

and then, of course, what do u do when the idea puts a knife to your throat. or puts on bright yellow tights to beat u up in front of your friends. things get really silly!! quoting my own tags on the first linked post just to have them here as well:

#i think constantly constantly about the car crash disaster of #all the things ppl did in their grief after jason died and then #jason comes back. and sees things he was never meant to see #and it's specifically sooo interesting for the ppl who got caught up in the grief but never even met jason #tim looking at the memorial case #cass sitting at jason's grave on his birthday with bruce #like wtf is jason supposed to do w all that grief from ppl he doesnt know for a person he only sort of was #and on the flip side! wtf r the ppl who grieved a story supposed to do when the story walks up to them! #and in some cases. walks up to them holding a knife. #anyway just thinkin