#There was another example in the show it was a quote I forgot the exact wording but it’s like h?!h3(?&@
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Okay but can I just say I’m in love with the parallels that they gave gumlee and petrigof… like the “I’m giving it all up for you after barely any time” LIKE YOU SEE IT RIGHT…
#fionna and cake#gumlee#petrigrof#IM JUST SO ?!?!#There was another example in the show it was a quote I forgot the exact wording but it’s like h?!h3(?&@
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I regularly see comments about the hotd writers taking inspiration from other Targaryen women for Rhaenyra since she has little in common with her book counterpart, is there any merit to this or is this coincidental?
So the main complaints I’ve seen about the way Rhaenyra has been adapted are that she’s a) not feminine enough and b) not ambitious enough compared to her book portrayal. Those making the first point generally cite the following passage, but like the one about Naerys that I quoted recently, it’s from a description GRRM gave to an artist in 2006 and does not appear in any published books, so I certainly wouldn’t call it canon:
You will probably want to paint Rhaenyra as she was at her father’s death, when she laid claim to the Iron Throne. Pampered from an early age, she was a pudgy girl and a stout woman, with a thick waist and a very large bosom. She was very proud and stubborn, and there was a certain petulance to her small mouth. Rhaenyra did have the silver-gold hair of the Targaryens, which she wore long and braided in the manner of Aegon the First’s warrior wife Visenya. Rhaenyra was no warrior herself. She always dressed richly, favoring purple and maroon velvets and golden Myrish lace in intricate patterns. Her bodice often glittered with pearls and diamonds, and there were always rings on her fingers. Whenever she was anxious, she would turn them compulsively, round and round. Though Rhaenyra could be charming, she was quick to anger and never forgot a slight. During the Dance of the Dragons, she wore her father’s crown.
I would point out that Fire & Blood, published in 2018, modifies this description somewhat, stating that Rhaenyra only became “stout” as a result of her (first three) pregnancies:
Childbirth exacted a toll on the princess; the weight that Rhaenyra gained during her pregnancies never entirely left her, and by the time her youngest boy was born, she had grown stout and thick of waist, the beauty of her girlhood a fading memory, though she was but twenty years of age. According to Mushroom, this only served to deepen her resentment of her stepmother, Queen Alicent, who remained slender and graceful at half again her age.
The previous passage is a good example of another thing I’d like to point out—the descriptions of Rhaenyra in Fire & Blood are often pretty misogynistic! Whether this comes exclusively from the in-universe sources (which include a septon and the aforementioned Mushroom, an extremely salacious court jester) and writer (one Archmaester Gyldayn) or from GRRM as well I honestly can’t say.
Circling back to the complaint about her femininity (or lack thereof) in the show, you all know how I feel about “let women be feminine” LOL but I will allow that the costuming choices GRRM mentions for Rhaenyra in the first passage sound nice at least and the show doesn’t always do the best job in this regard, but again that description isn’t canon per se. Same goes for “Rhaenyra was no warrior herself,” which I’m sure is also used to “prove” that her show version is too masculine, but the previous sentence does state that she wore her hair the way “Aegon the Conqueror’s warrior wife” did, and in F&B she named her stillborn daughter after that same wife. Thus it seems clear that even the book version of Rhaenyra admired Visenya and maybe even took her as a role model if the extra-canonical description of her hairstyle means anything, so I don’t think the show really embellished much in this regard. Rhaenyra doesn’t know how to use a sword, but it makes perfect sense to me that she might wish she did in the face of a usurpation spurred on by her gender. Empress Matilda was the real historical figure on whom Rhaenyra was based, and to quote Catherine Hanley’s biography:
The seal that Matilda used in England at this time also illustrates the difficult situation in which she found herself. It was single-sided and depicted her alone – no Geoffrey [her husband], no young Henry [her eldest son] – seated on a throne in majesty. This was also a common image for men, but kingly seals also generally had a second image on the reverse, one that depicted them as an armed and mounted warrior. Matilda had no such image of her available (and any attempt to add one would have looked ridiculous, making the situation worse), which let slip the weakness of her position in terms of the military nature of kingship, an important consideration at this time. A king also needed to be a knight.
Moving on to the complaint about her lack of ambition—so far I really don’t think the show has diverged much from the book in this regard:
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All in all, I generally prefer her characterization in the show and frankly have a hard time understanding many of these adaptational complaints (besides the fact that pretty much everyone in the show cast is slim when that’s not the case in the book). Willing to hear other people’s arguments though 💃
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Now don't get me wrong, ik spop is a kid's show, so it makes sense that there might be like a lesson at the end but what annoys me is when they say the message, for example in "Flowers for She-ra" (I think I don't remember the exact episode) Adora literally says the point of the episode "I may not be the perfect hero everyone needs me to be, but, that's ok." and in another episode (I forgot the name) Glimmer said something close to (I forgot the exact quote) "You can't plan exactly what's going to happen, just figure out what you can, and know that your friends have your back" Ik it's a stupid thing to complain about and it's really just a nitpick but it annoys me to no end.
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And this isn't even the only case of canon doing this nonsense! The most similar example is Adrien doing the exact same thing with Lila, taking about the same amount of time to acknowledge that she was a problem and that his previous advice was bad. Marinette's kwagatama is another good example. Introduced in season two only to be forgotten until season five! That's nonsense pacing!
This is not a deep, nuanced show where every moment matters. A show where you have to watch closely to understand the plot. It is, in theory, a fun comedy for kids. In that context, it is not reasonable to expect the average viewer to remember things across multiple seasons without even a token reminder between the setup and the payoff. That's not even how serious shows work! Serious shows put in that multi-season stuff for the hardcore fans, but write the show so that the surface level stuff makes sense to the casual watcher. Miraculous isn't doing that. It only makes sense to those who can quote every episode and, even then, I use the word "sense" lightly. Just because I can put two and two together doesn't mean the plot actually functions on a technical level.
I watch Miraculous with my adult partner who is an extremely casual fan - meaning he has only seen each episode once and is totally divorced from the fandom - and he gets totally lost when this stuff comes up. The season five final was incredibly confusing for him because it had been years since we watched the specials and he - understandably - forgot who all the special-only characters were!
Even if you could argue that the average viewer should remember everything, that doesn't work here because canon will straight up ignore what it established in previous seasons, making it impossible for even a dedicated fan to know what matters (for a well-known example, see canon suddenly forgetting Lila's ongoing lies about Ladybug being her best friend). That's part of what makes Miraculous so aggravating. There's no way to guess what will matter and what canon introduced for a cheap cliffhanger. Will Adrien's kwagatama ever be used? I don't know! And the fact that I don't know is bad writing! Why would you introduce that right after you explained how they're used if Adrien wasn't going to immediately use it? That doesn't even fit his character! He's supposedly desperate to know more about the miraculous and yet I'm supposed to believe that he didn't care about this magical link to all the previous holders?
Sure, writers. Sure.
Whenever I think of Miraculous's attempts to do context, I think of Gravity Falls.
Gravity Falls was a great show, especially in how they did off-screen context and overarching plot.
SPOILER ALERT
When they did the reveal of Stanley and Stanford, Alex Hirsch used subtext to tease the truth. Ford's glasses, the different nameplate on his car, knowing Gideon wasn't a real psychic since he kept calling him Stanford instead of Stanley—they were all there, but these tiny hints, while are noticeable, generally didn't mean much until the big reveal.
But the fun thing was that the fans saw the subtext, and because of the mystery genre in Gravity Falls, it's almost like audience participation in putting together the clues.
Obviously, I'm not expecting Miraculous to do this. It's a whole other genre, a whole other storyline. But I feel like a distinct parallel that can be taken from it is mainly WHEN said subtext is subtext, and what's not.
One example I can think of is Despair Bear. Adrien told Chloé to fix her attitude otherwise they won't be friends. Relevant for the episode, fine.
BUT THEN
They ignore it for episodes on end until Queen Banana, where Adrien suddenly uses it as a bargaining chip. And when people complain, they act like Adrien's tried this whole time and Chloé's just mean.
Basically, what Miraculous did wrong that Gravity Falls did right was knowing when to call attention to something and when not to.
In Gravity Falls, they were careful with the Stanley-Stanford reveal hints; things like the nameplate and Gideon were small in the grand scheme of things and passed you by if you weren't paying attention. But then they remind you of the mystery surrounding Stan by using small but overt scenes to make you think about it.
However, in Miraculous, they didn't do that. Again, Despair Bear. Adrien threatens their friendship, Chloé gets her act together, blah blah blah. But the issue is, post-episode, it's never mentioned again until practically a whole season later, after which we're just supposed to believe Adrien tried.
When you call attention to scenes from prior episodes, usually through quoting, you're inviting extra scrutiny on how you do your context. However, there's nothing to call attention to! You have Despair Bear, then radio silence until Queen Banana, after which it's treated like the last straw when it was the only straw.
It feels sudden that Adrien cut off the relationship because it was sudden. There was no added context or reminder, like visual effort on Adrien's or Chloé's part to preserve their friendship, and because of that, the conflict in Queen Banana feels thrown out there at random.
When conflict is supposed to coincide with previous episodes but said conflict stretches far from the start of the issue to the actual fight, you need to pepper in reminders to people that this is an issue that will have relevance in the future. You can't just declare it as something, just because that's what YOU think happened. And who knows, maybe to you it did, but we're not in your head, so how are we supposed to know if you don't show it to us?
The audience is usually more eagle-eyed than you think, and if over 90% of the audience missed the context, that's not the audience's fault. It's the creator.
The issue is the same for the infamous wax scene. Discomfort aside, Adrien's attitude towards Marinette post-episode never changed. No lingering glances, no moments of confusion in his feelings, nothing. So when it hits that he apparently has feelings for Marinette, it comes out of the blue. Or the whole Marinette and Cat Noir switching their crushes, with Marinette now like Cat Noir and Cat Noir now liking Marinette. There's just not enough context to justifiably believe that it is what it is.
Sorry for how long it is. I was just thinking about Gravity Falls and one thought turned into another.
This is an excellent time to give one of my favorite pieces of writing advice: if you want to tell stories, then you should study how mysteries are told because most stories have an element of mystery to them.
The mystery genre is the literary equivalent of a puzzle because a good mystery is all about setup and payoff. If the ending of a mystery doesn't come with a feeling of, "oh, how did I miss that?" or "Yes, I knew it!" then you've probably told a bad mystery. But that rule isn't unique to mysteries. Anything with a twist or a reveal requires you to set up those things and, generally speaking, you want to set up these non-mystery twists and reveals the same way you set them up in mysteries. The big difference will be that people aren't aware of what the mystery is, so the clues won't play like clues the first time through.
If you look at Gravity Falls, you know right from the start that there's a mystery afoot because the series begins with the character Dipper discovering a mysterious journal marked with a six-fingered hand and the number three:
This means that everything in the story should be viewed with the knowledge that this journal exists. Viewers assume - correctly - that they are going to learn more and more about the journal as the story goes on. They can also make some logical guesses based on the things they learn. For example, later on, the story introduces a nearly identical journal marked with the number two. For some viewers, this was an "oh, shit!" moment. For others, it was a major win because they'd guessed that this reveal was coming. After all, why would you mark Dipper's journal with a three if it was the only one?
Let's compare this to Miraculous and how it handles things.
I would not call Miraculous a mystery, but - like many non-mystery stories - it has a mystery at its heart: what happened to Emilie Agreste? The answer comes with the reveal that Adrien, Felix, and Kagami are sentimonsters. But, for many viewers, that is not a satisfyingly reveal. They don't look back at the show and go, "Oh, that's why X happened in season one and Y happened in season two! It all make sense now!" Instead, they go, "Wait, how did Gabriel lose in Chat Blanc if Adrien has a remote control?" or "Wait, if Adrien is a sentimonster, then why didn't Chat Noir go nuts when he was cataclysmed in Miraculer? And what about Claw Noir in the Paris special? Why was he totally fine? Gabriel showed us that being transformed doesn't protect you from a cataclysm, so there's no reason why these two didn't act like other sentimonster here."
There are also lots of smaller-scale mysteries going on such as the fate of the eyeglass that Félix used to find Emilie in the season for final. Canon then let Adrien find the abandoned glass in the season four final, making everyone think it was going to be an important plot point in season five. No one knew how it was going to be used, but the hype was real! Hype that went no where because canon apparently forgot about Adrien finding the glass. Mid-season fine, it randomly shows up in Gabriel's possession, a twist so confusing that the wiki can't even figure out what happened here:
In "Pretension", Gabriel somehow finds it and gives it to Tomoe, who uses it to track Félix's scent during her akumatization after he kidnapped Kagami.
Nevermind how Gabriel found it, how did he even know it was Félix's??? Nothing about this makes sense.
This is what I mean when I say that you want to write non-mystery stories like mysteries. No matter the genre, you want your stories to make sense. For stories to make sense, you need to make use of various setup and payoff techniques like foreshadowing. You can also make use of distraction techniques like red herrings. Everything mystery writers use is on the table for other genres. The big difference between mysteries and non-mysteries is not the techniques used, but the timing of events and how the characters are played. In a mystery story, you start with a body on the floor. In a non-mystery, the body might not show up until the end, but the reason it's lying there still needs to make sense!
Similarly, your non-mystery characters may not be trying to solve anything, but you'll still need set things up so that they get the information they need to have in order to make the ending work without it feeling like said ending came out of nowhere. While season five of Miraculous sucked in most ways, it did this to a certain extent by at least taking the time to establish that the Emilie videos existed before bringing them into the final. They also took the time to setup Lila knowing that Gabriel was Monarch. Imagine how much worse the final would feel without those things.
This need to set things up goes beyond plot elements. It applies to character beats, too! Adrien and Chloé's relationship is a wonderful example of a relationship arc that needed to take some lessons from mystery novels. As you noted in the ask, Despair Bear setup the idea that Adrien would cut Chloé off if she kept hurting others:
Adrien:(sighs in disappointment) Chloé, how long have you and I been friends? Chloé: Since we were adorable little tots, Adrikins. (Pouts) Adrien:(disappointed) Well, I'm sorry Chloé, but I can't be friends with someone who treats other people like this. You've gotta be nice to people! Chloé: N-Nice? Adrien: Yes, nice. It's not that hard.
But this setup doesn't pay off until the end of Derision:
Adrien: I know about everything that you did to Marinette last year, Chloé. You're going to go and apologize to her and prove to everyone that you can change. I'm sure she'll forgive you. Chloé: (cackles) Forgive me? What do I care about her forgiveness? I couldn't care less about Dupain-Cheng's feelings! She and the likes of her only exist to suffer for my entertainment. Why bother having power if you can't use it against those who don't have any? You're the one who’s getting things wrong, with your baker girl! You're a prince! You belong with me, the princess! You're in this world to shine! To make fun of all the losers who are only good enough to be used as doormats! Adrien: You're nothing like a princess, Chloé. I supported you. I gave you multiple chances to become a better person. Everyone reached out to you, including Ladybug and Cat Noir when they gave you the Miraculous of the Bee again. But all you ever think about is yourself. Chloé: And what else is there to think about? Losers and nobodies? The little bees? The planet? Adrien: (angrily) We will NEVER be friends again, Chloé. You and I are DONE. (walks away in anger)
And between those two episodes, the most we get is Chloé breaking up with Adrien in season four's Queen Banana after the two have a fight about her behavior:
Adrien: Hey, wait! Chloé:(turns around) Adrikins, it's sweet of you to want to console me, but I'm fine. I'm going to get my revenge and send Zoé back to New York. Adrien: Actually, I came to suggest that you apologize to everyone. Chloé:(vehemently) Are you ill?! They've ruined my film! Adrien: It was never your film, Chloé. It belonged to the group. You promised me you'd make an effort to stop being mean to everyone. I warned you that if you didn't, then we can no longer be friends. Chloé:(ends her friendship with Adrien) You're as ridiculous that film! It's over, you're no longer my Adrikins, you're Adrinothing! (Runs off to the limousine and cries inside.)
If you look at this like a mystery, it's a pretty awful one. The pacing is terrible and the events don't link together. When Queen Banana had Adrien call Chloé out for breaking her promise, I wasn't sure what he was talking about. The wiki links that line to Despair Bear and that makes sense to me in terms of what happened in Despair Bear, but if that's what he's talking about, then why did it take him two seasons remember his original threat? Why is Queen Banana his breaking point and not Miracle Queen, Zombizou, her theft of the bee, or any of the other awful things Chloé has done? Things that saw Adrien do and say nothing, making his claim that people reached out to her ring rather hollow. He let her get away with some pretty major crimes and only speaks up when she's mildly petty which isn't a great look for his character.
I've also seen several people confused by Derision's ending because they thought that Adrien and Chloé were already done, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to assume since Chloé cut Adrien off in Queen Banana and Adrien doesn't really talk to Chloé between Queen Banana and Derision. Two facts that really undermine his actions in Derision because why did he even bother talking to Chloé at that point? And why was Marinette's trauma the thing that made him finally reach out? It's especially weird when you remember that Adrien didn't get to watch the Derision flashback like we did. He just learned about one "prank" from Kim and went on the warpath. Not an overreaction given how bad the prank was, but a bit of an overreaction when you considered everything Chloé did that Adrien was happy to tolerate.
For this breakup to work and have weight, the show needed to have Adrien consistently reacting to Chloé's bad behavior. We need to see him actually trying and failing to push her to improve. We need to see him struggling between his new friends and his old friend. Those are the clues you use to tease Adrien cutting her off. The setup to the payoff of the breakup. We don't get those so Adrien and Chloé's relationship arc feels like a waste of time because they don't really have a relationship. You could have removed their "friendship" and the show would lose nothing. Just rewrite Despair Bear to give Chloé a different motivation and you're good to go.
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Murakami and Ranpo
Some minor spoilers ahead for the third BSD LN, The Untold Story of the Founding of the Detective Agency." If you aren't concerned with spoilers, I did my best with summarizing the plot for anyone who hasn't read the novel.
In the third BSD LN, Fukuzawa and Ranpo are tasked with finding the culprit of an ominous death threat at a theatrical play. The threat is written as follows:
“An angel shall bring death, in the truest sense of the word, to the performer. —V.”
This threat fits perfectly with the play, which is a mystery play where each character gets killed by an "angel" who murders. However, the characters don't know if they're being killed by an angel or a regular person, because there's nothing supernatural about their causes of death (getting stabbed by a knife, poison, strangulation, etc.).
Each character was a former angel who had been banished from the celestial world, because they admired humans so much that God turned them into humans. Therefore, the characters in the play believed that an angel was sent after them to punish them for their sins.
This sets up two mysteries for us to follow:
1. The mystery of the real death threat, sent by "V" — who is the culprit behind it, who will they kill, and why?
2. The mystery within the play — is it an angel or real person killing each character, and why?
Paradoxes (and Things That Don't Make Sense)
The play is called, "The Living World is a Dream, the Nocturnal Dream is Reality," which is a quote from the real Edogawa Ranpo's work, but I couldn't find the exact source. The title proposes a paradox: reality is a dream, and dreams are reality.
Several other paradoxes present themselves in the story, but they appear most prominently in Ranpo's big speech where he solves the mystery of the play, and the murder simultaneously:
“The murder and the play’s story are connected on a deep level. This play reversed the tide of the narrative. A group of fallen angels tried to return to the heavens, but the angel of judgment tried to stop them. Meanwhile, the angel’s judgment was but a show, and the supposed victim, a human, faked it. The angel’s and humans’ roles were reversed, switching the judge and the judged. That’s the kind of play this was. "
"...the narrative is in reverse. Our structures have been swapped along with the victim and killer as well. In other words—he isn’t the killer, but a victim."
This reveal subverts the original expectation that the plot would follow two separate mysteries. Instead, the lines are blurred between reality and fiction, killer and killed, and dreams and reality because now the two mysteries are intertwined.
I think this part of the story is deliberately written to be confusing (or at least not very clearly explained) as to fit in with the themes found in Murakami's writing.
Who is Murakami?
Haruki Murakami is a famous Japanese author, and you may have read some of his famous works, "Norwegian Wood" and "Kafka on the Shore."
Since this is Bungou (Literary) Stray Dogs, Murakami makes an appearance in this light novel as the main actor of the play.
Before I go on to explain Murakami's role in the novel, I'll give a brief background on his real counterpart and explain how the theatrical play in the novel reflects the real Murakami's work.
Murakami writes in the genre of "magical realism", where the lines between fantasy and reality are blurred as magical elements are seamlessly incorporated into the story. I'll be using "Kafka on the Shore" as the main example for this point, since it's a great example of Murakami's expertise in magical realism.
In "Kafka on the Shore," there are 2 interrelated plot lines, alternating with each chapter, similar to the 2 supposed mysteries outlined at the beginning of the novel.
Like its moniker, "Kafka on the Shore" resembles a "Kafkaesque" style of writing due to its surreal elements that are bizarre and illogical in the rules of reality.
In an interview about this novel, Murakami said:
"Kafka on the Shore contains several riddles, but there aren't any solutions provided. Instead, several of these riddles combine, and through their interaction the possibility of a solution takes shape. And the form this solution takes will be different for each reader. To put it another way, the riddles function as part of the solution. It's hard to explain, but that's the kind of novel I set out to write."
The Outcome of the Play
In theme with Murakami's bizarre, magical-realism writings, several illogical events take place within the span of the LN:
1. Before the play even starts, Murakami (the character) and the rest of the cast completely disregard the death threat. Even though the logical and safe solution would be to reschedule the play, it is a very literal representation of "the play must go on" mindset.
2. Murakami gets stabbed mid-sentence, on stage by a white blade that magically disappears.
3. Murakami bleeds real blood and has no pulse, which would signify his death, but he doesn't actually die.
Despite all this, Ranpo is extremely good at observing various elements of a situation and putting them together to form a solution, much like how the interactions of "Kafka on the Shore"'s riddles form their own solution.
Ranpo appears on stage and makes an Oscar-worthy performance out of his announcement that reveals Murakami to be the culprit behind his own death. It doesn't make much logical sense that Murakami would fake his own death for a performance, but rather it's an action motivated by pure passion.
“I…,” muttered Murakami in almost a whisper. He raised his voice and continued, “I am an actor! I become someone I am not and live a life that doesn’t exist! My job is to expose what it means to be human! It doesn’t matter if I play the lead part or a minor part. It doesn’t matter if I am a villain or hero. I become them with every part of my body! There is no other job for me! This is the only way I can live!”
And here, Murakami reveals the final paradox of the play:
"But there is one thing that cannot be avoided while acting on the stage of life, and that is death! Death is not the opposite of life; it is life’s symbol and banner. However, it also provides a great paradox! Nobody alive has ever experienced it! That’s why to me, the greatest job of all would be performing the death of a person. Not death as a device or a mere convention, but real death that I could convey to the audience. That was the pinnacle of theatrical performance to me. And this is the outcome of my toil."
Murakami eventually gets arrested for the fake death threat and deceiving the police, among other things. The most notable moment after this comes in Ranpo's dialogue to Murakami:
“I thought you were amazing,” Ranpo suddenly said from behind as Murakami was being taken away. “I didn’t quite understand all of it myself, but I don’t think it’s something that just anyone could do. By the way, take a look at the audience. Look at their faces.”
1. Ranpo sees Murakami's act as something admirable, most likely because Ranpo appreciates a good mystery and had fun solving it.
2. Ranpo tells Murakami to look at the audience, to which he turns around and sees the faces of a broken audience who came to watch a play and instead witnessed a real not-so-real murder.
“You said your job was entertainment, right? But could you really call it that…when you look at their expressions?” For the first time, Murakami’s eyes showed a sign of weakness. “…I see.” A small voice, unlike what one would expect from a stage actor with a powerful voice, fell from the stage. “I was…only performing for myself.”
Murakami realizes that he traumatized his entire audience on his quest to reach the "pinnacle of theatrical performance." In his small world that consisted of just the stage, he failed to see the outside world and forgot to consider how his actions would impact others. It's also important to mention that it was Ranpo specifically who pointed it out to him.
The focus on the audience mirrors Fukuzawa's thoughts when Ranpo was giving his big speech before Murakami appeared on the stage:
Fukuzawa was at his wits’ end. From the playgoers’ point of view, the fact that people knew there was going to be a murder beforehand completely changed their view of the situation. Was it really okay to tell them that? But Ranpo showed no concern for the audience’s worries.
Ranpo, throughout the entire novel, is portrayed as this extraordinarily ordinary kid who means well but simply doesn't understand what others are thinking. He was taught that he wasn't special, but this only isolated him into his own tiny world, because the outside world was filled with things he didn't understand.
This leads to him upsetting a bunch of people by blatantly calling out things about them that shouldn't be called out, like the theater's owner Ms. Egawa, and even Fukuzawa at one point.
However, this moment when he calls out Murakami is pivotal because it shows how he's grown from this event. He's learned to be considerate of others. He's seen how he can upset other people with the things he says, and he's learned from that enough to show another person who's trapped in their own individual world.
Although Ranpo is depicted to be somewhat self-centered throughout this novel and even after it, Fukuzawa taught him that he isn't alone in this world. Because Fukuzawa showed compassion to Ranpo, a special fifteen-year-old kid who didn't know better in a world of monsters, Ranpo learned how to exist in a world where he was different from everyone else, and that was okay.
Thank you for reading! If you haven't read this LN yet, I would still highly recommend it because I didn't cover the entirety of the mystery, and it's a wonderful read to understand more about Ranpo and Fukuzawa's backstory.
#bsd#bsd meta#bsd analysis#bsd ranpo#murakami#bsd light novel#i actually read the LN a while ago#but didn't realize murakami was in it until i finished kafka on the shore
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@uwuthatshit @papuru666 I hope you are having a nice time today, maybe this will cheer you up :)
This is a small thing I wrote to expose some of Sachi's thoughts, how she views her relationship with her Master and to show her feelings. If there's support I'll write more scenarios of master/slave (not sexual, not yet) so please reblog ✨ thank you.
⛓️Puppet⛓️
A scenario in the torture chamber
Kanato x Sachi
Master/slave relationship
Not explicit but at least +13
Abusement, sub/dom, not sexual
Words count: 1.335
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On random occasions, a sense of sporadic rational thinking comes across my brain, judging me for the decisions I've made in these past days and doubting seriously the poor condition of my mental health, worse each passing day.
Am I doing the right thing?
I couldn't answer my own question when I snapped out my thoughts at the cold feeling of metal handcuffs on my wrists.
I totally forgot I was in his torture chamber.
What a nice place, perfect for the ideal romantic date I've always dreamt about.
If only I didn't give up on that silly idea time ago, now having to conform to this kind of treatment and all the perverse thoughts that come across his mind.
Not so long ago I was just Juliet waiting for her Romeo.
The red haired, green-eyed Romeo.
But as Mom always told me, reading fictional stories and having fantasies is the only way childish women who can't face the real world can experience the ideal version of love they have in their, I quote, stupid and malformed brains.
Well, Romeo and Juliet's love story isn't exactly a good example of an ideal relationship but you get the point.
Oops, I think I've been avoiding my situation (once again), where were we?
Oh yes, the handcuffs. And him.
Not the boy with ginger hair I dreamt about but a porcelain-looking young man, with the most delicately chosen clothes and eyes that glimmer like amethysts.
He looked at me, having to lift his head to look right into my eyes, and I noticed that every time he has to do this motion he suppresses a frustrated grimace.
Adorable.
-If only you could stay still I wouldn't have to resort to this, even though having you like this is not that inconvenient, it's just another proof of how badly trained you are. What a disgrace, and you call yourself my slave? You should be ashamed.- he was right, I always cover my body unconsciously when he hurts me. Last time was when he was about to brand new one of his latest acquisitions, a beautiful silver dagger, with me, and I couldn't avoid covering my torso with my arms.
As a result, now I have even more scars in my forearms. Cool.
-I'm really sorry, Kanato-sama. I'll try to behave more properly next time.
He ignored my response and adjusted the handcuffs, locking them and putting the little key that would open them (I hope) in his pocket.
I wonder what it's gonna be this time.
A knife, daggers, a whip, hot wax?
Limitless choices, this was like the equivalent for him to being in Disneyland.
The only difference was that in his Disneyland there's only one ride: me.
His slender fingers slowly caressed my left cheek, where I have one of my recent bruises, covered by a boring, white bandaid. My face sure looks miserable.
My Master furrowed his eyebrows as his touch turned more and more aggressive, causing my wound to stink, ignoring the little pained whine that escaped from my lips the exact moment his nails tried to enter into my skin
He hates this wound.
Because he is not the cause of it.
Mom always knows how to find new, exciting ways to torture me, incapable of formulate the minimum attempt of a rational thought and justifying her hatred towards me by declaring herself a saviour sent by God.
I think she is frustrated by the fact that every day, when I leave home to go to school, I always return.
I would bet my entire book collection that what she truly desires is me, coming back home from classes and when I'm about to end crossing the street that separates me from the hell I call home a drunk motherfucker driving a gigantic truck (or better, a school bus full of innocent infants, more dramatic), runs over me and smashes me into the pavement, guts and what once was a functional brain spilled everywhere, an unlucky old woman passing by screaming until she has a heart attack and Mom seeing all the scene from the window of our shitty apartment, smiling slightly (does she know how to smile?) to then look away, keep reading the newspaper, or the Bible, who cares, and lazily sipping her "morning" coffee due to the fact that it is 3:00 am, thinking to herself that all of this was in God's plan.
Anyways, you can start visualising the type of person my mother is, can't you? Of course she wouldn't hesitate to damage my face.
And Kanato hates her for that.
And I love him for that.
-Hey, tell me, Puppet.-I hate that nickname, "Puppet", he can't even grant me the honour of calling me his "Doll".- I'm sure I've already told you several times but up here isn't exactly your place, right, Teddy? -Teddy doesn't say anything, sitting carefully on the table where Kanato lines up all the instruments he plans to use on me whenever we come here.- Yes, Teddy I agree. Time to fix that.-
The second after he said this he pushed me onto the ground, making me stay on my knees, grabbing the chain that is attached to the collar he forces me to wear and lifting it up, making me look up at him forcefully. My neck ached.
-Now that's better.- he chuckled.- the proper place for a good slave.-
I nodded, immersed in his beautiful purple irises that made me forget about everything else and the fact that I still didn't know what he was planning to do with me tonight.
Then suddenly, without any warning, he slapped my face, right into my bruised cheek.
-Answer with words.-
-I agree, Master.- it hurts.
It hurts so much, everything he does to me.
But how oddly good it feels, to be loved this way.
-What game should we play today, Puppet? You are still sore from yesterday, aren't you? That cut on your back was so deep I almost reached the bone, fufu, lovely, I want to see that sight of you one day, no meat left, only bones… should I end your life by cremating your body? I'll have to think about it...-
While he was saying such romantic words, he kneeled down to be at my level and started undoing the buttons of my shirt, exposing what I was reserving for my knight in the silver armour some time ago, when I still had hope. A silent tear tragically freed itself, sliding through my face slowly, slowly…
I wanted to be in his doll collection so badly...
Wait, is that the reason?
I'll pretend it is.
He kissed my neck, making me shiver at the contact of his cold lips on one of my most sensitive spots and removed my clothes until only my brassiere stayed in the way. I'm unable to stop his motions, the handcuffs laughing at me and my tragic fate.
Despite that, and I might sound like a fool, I wanted this.
I wanted him to do a hundred things to me. This time, I craved it, for his cold hands to roam my whole body, for the silver dagger he wanted to use on me, for the black whip he uses when he considers I'm being specially naughty that day…
I want...
I…
…
My purple haired Master removed the tear from my face and tasted it, as if my suffering was his nutrient source.
-You won't be able to cover yourself today, and today no one will come to bother us. So let's have fun, shall we? All night long…- and then, he smiled. I expected a maniac grin but no, he smiled, sweetly.
Like candy.
So I melted into his sugary words and acted like a perfect, still puppet.
For his entertainment.
For the illusion I created in my head.
…
And then, something broke the silence.
Another bloodstain to decorate the room.
And another tear that escaped from my soul…
#diabolik lovers#diabolik oc#diabolik lovers oc#kanato x sachi#sachi nakamura#kanato sakamaki#saxxukiwrites
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i was thinking about once upon a time (abc) in bed this morning so i decided to write this list
subject to change, since awhile ago i was in the middle of season 6 when they took it off netflix and i never quite got around to picking it back up. i’m gonna finish if it kills me i promise
top 5 things about once upon a time
5. anna frozen
when ouat introduced frozen characters, most fans decided the show had jumped the shark. they were not wrong. however, it was this very thing that allowed the show to be fun again! after an excruciatingly bad season 3 (we will get to that), bringing on anna and elsa literally transported directly from their own unaltered story in cheap ass versions of their unaltered movie costumes allowed the show to let loose and do... basically whatever it wanted. this became the hallmark of the show for those who stuck with it: absolutely not making sense at all, but being fun about it. post-season-three ouat becomes a totally different soap opera from season one, but by god you are never bored.*
personally, the flashback episode where anna annoys rumpelstiltskin and gets the better of him and he’s so fucking mad about it is like top 10 episodes**
4. 2x16 “the miller’s daughter”
this episode is just another personal favorite. it exemplifies what this show was really good at when it was good, and also where everything went wrong. i think cora is a great example of a good ouat villain, i think the twist on the rumpelstiltskin story is great, i think the dramatic beats really work.
...and in typical ouat fashion, cora immediately dies and two more villains we don’t care about at all are introduced. (sonequa forgive me you know i’m in love with you but tamara was nothing. it’s not your fault.) yes we get that great scene of snow aggressively doing archery practice while listening to “bad reputation” but was it worth killing off a compelling villain just as you’d dug into her story?
3. the commitment to regina’s redemption
and lana parrilla in general. i mean i’m gay and she’s hot but the worse the show got, the more acting lana gave it. and this is just speculation, but i think lana is more comfortable with drama than with camp? because regina becomes a much more interesting character as someone conflicted and on the path to redemption than as a villain. and by god, they were gonna redeem regina.
if only she had been gay we really could have had it all.
2. rumpelstiltskin
the sweet spot with rumpelstiltskin for me was seasons one and two when he was unabashedly bastard, there was an attempt to make him sympathetic but nobody except belle actually liked him, you weren’t quite sure how much he knew, he was pulling all the strings, and he was just really fucking weird. it will surprise no one who follows this blog to hear that that is my type of wizard.
1. season one
it’s a good season. it’s a good season. there are some bad things about it, but it was extremely watchable. it was doing fairy tales with occasional disney nods in a (mostly) cohesive fashion. the lore and the magic hadn’t sprawled out of control yet. it had the strongest relationship, imo, between emma and henry, and emma and snow. as for iconic episodes, most of the greats are here, plus sebastian stan as the mad hatter and giancarlo esposito as a series regular. the crowning moment for me is the scene at the end of skin deep, when regina confronts gold in the town jail and he reveals that he remembers his real name (after beating the shit out of belle’s dad with his cane obviously). god. that is some good television.
worst 5 things about once upon a time
5. the adoption politics but everyone knows this one.
4. WASTING the talent
you had the love of my life sonequa martin-green and gave her nothing. you somehow scored oded fehr as jafar and gave him nothing. you had giancarlo esposito and regina literally forgot he existed. i will kill you
3. rumpelstiltskin.
it’s no secret that robert carlyle was acting circles around most of the cast; my opinion is that the showrunners felt that if they committed to either his redemption or his villainy, they would never find someone else with the talent to fill his shoes as bastard wizard. so they flip-flopped on him every half-season, which ruins his story longterm, slowly kills the light in robert’s eyes, and gets reallllllly old. it’s also no secret that my favorite rumpelstiltskin is bastard wizard, but they screwed over belle BIG time in the process and for that i will never forgive them.
also like. the rumpelstiltskin fairy tale is antisemitic to begin with and they did not minimize that by comparing him to a lizard and naming his storybrooke counterpart mr gold. they just. did that.
2. THE FUCKING NEVERLAND ARC GOD IN CHRIIIIIIIIIIIST THAT HALF-SEASON IS EXCRUCIATING
1. captain hook
*it’s my opinion that if you are bored, you’re watching a hook-centric episode. every time i dropped the show and forgot about it for months at a time, it was because i had been in the middle of an episode about hook and just could not get through it. how do i describe all the things i don’t like about what killian hook jones did to the show? with subpoints!
1a. the episode where gold gives him back his hand and he never changes.
**this is actually the same episode i mentioned about anna and, like i said, it’s one of my favorites and not at all boring. look, i’m not pretending this list isn’t subjective as hell.
remember when hook blackmailed mr gold into magically reattaching his hand, which gold has been keeping in a jar, because hook has a date with emma and wants it to go well? but also, gold tells him that if he reattaches his hand with dark magic, it will turn him evil? and then hook spends the episode doing evil things, only for mr gold to tell him “i was just messing with you! the hand was not evil, you gave yourself permission to be evil ;)”
yeah, that’s basically hook’s mo.
1b. episode where emma tells him his brother is lying to him and he learns the exact wrong lesson from this and never changes.
so emma goes to the underworld to get hook back after he dies (while being evil and doing villainous things). they find his brother down there, too, and emma senses that he has a dark secret (because he does) and is lying to them (because he is). but hook always idolized his older brother, so he won't believe her. when emma confronts the brother directly, hook interrupts to rant to her about how he knows what this is ~really all about.
actual dialogue:
HOOK: i don't need proof to know what's really going on here. emma, when are you gonna admit that this isn't really about my brother? EMMA: what else would you think it was about? HOOK: us. you think if you can prove that liam is a villain, then i’ll somehow feel like i was less of one.
who... would EVER come to that conclusion. and why is the lesson he learns at the end “perhaps i do deserve saving after all” (another direct quote), and not “NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU, BECAUSE EMMA WAS LITERALLY RIGHT ABOUT YOUR BROTHER LYING TO EVERYONE”????
1c. the emma dark one arc, where hook never changes.
this would be the arc that leads up to the above underworld arc, and it is deeply dumb, entertaining, and hard to explain. suffice it to say, during this whole arc, killian (along with emma) has all the powers and ~~~Darkness~~~ of the dark one (formerly rumpelstiltskin). unlike emma, he is not aware of this for most of the season. the moment he finally finds out, he turns on emma and goes through with all the revenge plans he’s apparently been holding onto since season two.
it’s supposed to be sympathetic, because emma made this choice for him to be a dark one, which is clearly awful, when he didn’t want it. so i get that. but on the other hand, it is..... boring. because (a) it's nothing we haven't seen him try to do and fail at before, his motivations really aren't that complex. and more importantly, (b) he was the dark one the whole time! the only thing that changed, that made him act evil, was finding out about it. at that point, it's not the ~~~Darkness~~~ making you do evil things. it’s just you. because you’re a dick.
how is this arc resolved? well, he dies. after the underworld arc (which i very much enjoyed tbf), a sizable part of robin hood’s death episode is devoted to people telling emma to slow down and grieve for killian, since at least two arcs have revolved around her inability to let hook go when he is literally dying or dead. (it’s been said a million times but being his girlfriend really sucked the personality out of emma and i miss her.) and in the end he just... comes back anyway. no explanation given; he says it must be a reward from zeus for killing hades... while he and emma make out literally in front of the coffin of robin hood... who actually died fighting hades. killian died half a season before. while he was evil. and emma reverts to tearful girlfriend.
it’s insulting. it’s grating. and it is a Killian Hook Jones Guarantee that his episodes will involve some measure of this.
like, is it more or less the same shtick that the writers kept giving rumpelstiltskin, too? backsliding and screwing over his love interest who gets less and less say in the matter? yes. definitely. the crucial difference is that i, personally, love rumpelstiltskin, while i find hook boring and not self-aware. but clearly i have had a lot of fun complaining about him! again, this is not an objective list.
conclusions
this show ran for 7 years. it got cancelled not because it deserved to, but because no one liked the soft reboot. it was on until 2018.
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@melancholygirlfrien said:
I have a Child Development Associate so I am literally professionally certified to tell you that yes, taking children and babies to places so they can learn how to function and see that they're a part of a world bigger than they are, is important to their social, emotional, and language development. It helps everything from motor skills to social skills and cognition Just because you find babies' cries annoying doesn't mean parents are selfish just for wanting to take their children outside. Children shouldn't be raised indoors all day in a fucking bubble because that's how developmental issue happen. If a child is isolated they can develop serious issues.
Note that there are more appropriate places you could be taking them to, for starters. Places where people can avoid the noise more easily and where it might be less disruptive.
Like, you have options beyond “indoors 100% of the time” and the kinds of locations I mentioned in my first reply to you. Like, you can still take them to places like parks, malls, and other locations where it would be less of an issue.
No it's not fucking self centered for a parent to take their baby outside because they're just doing what they gotta do , not everyone can afford child care especially people of lower socioeconomic status. There are many single mothers who have no other option but to take their baby everywhere because that's what their situation calls for. The only fucking person being self-centered and not considering the struggles of other people is you.
Again, notice the kinds of places I mentioned in my post before going off on straw arguments. My complaints about others involve places like restaurants, the movies, and airplanes.
These are not only places where a child crying can ruin other people’s experience and be inescapable, they’re also places where many of the people there are not poor and had other options for what to do about their situation.
Like, I would think differently about someone who brought their baby to a clinic’s waiting room (for example) as opposed to a flight to Miami.
Black and white thinking is not going to help you understand what other people’s issues are.
No I wouldn't tell someone whos scared of my snake to go suck it, even though I would have every right to. Like I said I understand when people have phobias of certain animals. There might be people out there who have a phobia of dogs but does that mean people who take out their dogs are being selfish and don't care about people who have trauma/phobia associated with dogs?? Fuck no, those people are just being responsible dog owners and doing what every dog owner should which is take their dog out for a walk. Just bc some people might be annoyed by their dog doesn't mean they're being self-centered and bad people.
And yet there are places where they probably should not take their dog because it would be either inconsiderate or outright banned, and if they insisted on doing so then they probably are self-centered.
Like, if you want to take your babies out for a walk or something around the house that’s not nearly as bad as what I was actually complaining about.
your life isn't gonna be fucking ruined from hearing a baby cry in public. The most you'll be is annoyed and anxious for a few moments and then it will go away. Suck it up.
Did I ever say anyone’s life was going to be ruined? Why do you make everything some kind of exaggerated strawman?
Here are some exact quotes you already forgot about:
“It’s not the worst thing but it’s still kind of inconsiderate“
“No one said anything about stopping them or suspending their rights in any way, only that noise is annoying (and especially painful to autistic people with sensory issues).“
“Um… what do you think I do? Activate Karen Mode and go bother the parents about it? Nah, I just judge them silently. I am free to complain as much as I want on the internet though.“
So:
1- I am not treating it as a huge, life-ruining thing, just a sort of dick move. Like people who cut in line or something.
2- I do “suck it up” when it happens but am 100% allowed to complain about it online anyway.
Tbh I can't keep talking to you, I think people like you should be ushered into a dark warehouse and humanely put down.
Empathy-havers are so humane they advocate genocide against autistic people apparently, over a post about baby noises being kind of annoying. I’m not even surprised because you all keep doing this every single time without even thinking about how it sounds.
Maybe you should think about how the things that make children annoying (they're egotistical, they have a hard time empathizing with others because of their self-centered world view) are traits that you have yourself. The difference is that most children develop and grow out of that self-centered world view
If you actually read my post, the primary annoyance I pointed out was that they were Portable Sensory Hell. I made no comment about their ability to feel empathy and actually find low empathy people significantly less annoying than others so that’s clearly not it.
You're a child in my eyes tbh. Your mentality is childish. Say what you will but I would like to remind you again, at one point in your life, you were a baby, and you shit your pants, and someone had to clean up all that shit after. Or else you wouldn't be here.
You know, if you’re going to go around advocating genocide over a post about people not liking baby noises then I am 100% sure my literal child self was morally and intellectually superior to your current self already.
You know what would make me respect you more? If you owned up to the fact that you judging parents when their babies cry is a result of your low empathy and self-centered world view. I would respect you SO much more if you just said "Yo, straight up. I'm just a selfish person. I know babies can't help that they cry and it's not the parents fault but I straight up do not like that shit. I have low empathy as a person and therefore I can't really bring myself to care about babies, children, or the parents and their situation so I just judge parents because I want to. Because their kid is annoying the shit out of me. I don't care about the reasoning tbh I'm just kind of an asshole."
> Implying I care about whether or not you respect me.
Also, this isn’t even correct. At my current point in life I pretty much never have to interact with babies in any way, if I was completely selfish then it would not matter to me now whether or not people bring their crying babies into airplanes and the like. The issue just isn’t a very significant part of my life.
But the thing is that while I am low empathy that does not change the fact that I value other people’s well-being and know that crying babies make their lives worse even if just in a small, temporary way.
The kinds of parents I am complaining about don’t even think about that.
You know you're just incompassionate. So be a self-respecting sociopath and own up to that shit, please, I would respect a stone cold evill mf SO much better than a little weasel who tries to give excuses as to their own egocentric way of thinking.
I am a narcissist, not a sociopath. Of course, if cluster B disorders are just standard insults to you then you might think all low empathy conditions are the same.
Furthermore, you haven’t shown that you understand anything at all about what low empathy conditions are actually like.
Also I find it really telling that you would prefer unrepentant evil selfishness over someone who merely understands and sides with others who are negative about loud babies. Like, actual morality is not something you seem to be valuing here.
"iF I wErE iN tHaT sItUaTiOn I wOuLd jUsT sTaY hOme!" No you wouldn't you stupid bitch because parents have to go out to buy groceries, and run errands like every other adult.
Again, you seem to be treating all of “outside the house” as an interchangeable space with the exact same norms.
Like, do you realize how it might be different to bring your child out for necessary grocery shopping than to bring them to a restaurant or the movies? Do you really think I would treat those things as exactly the same?
MOST parents, especially working-class, poor, or single parents, DON'T have that option, as I already stated. And you are showing a clear lack of regard for people who are in a tougher situation than you for judging parents when their babies annoy YOU. You are literally not putting yourself in their shoes at all bc you have no idea of even half the shit parents have to do in order to make ends meet and look after their babies.
Oh, I am well aware of how having babies will multiply your suffering, especially if you’re poor. It’s precisely why I’m never having any!
I understand it’s a huge pain and people with children are always going on and on about how their lives became significantly more miserable as a result of it.
I think you should honestly love that screaming toddler on the plane because in a few decades she might grow up to become the nurse who will take care of you when you're old and ill.
This argument just doesn’t work one way or another. If the baby is going to help me then I will be grateful once that actually happens, not based on a hypothetical so unlikely I might as well live my life not considering it.
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Astaire & Rogers Rewatch Part 4: Top Hat
• So we’ve reached Top Hat, which is generally everyone’s favorite including @elloette. Even many film historians say it’s the best Astaire/Rogers film. And it’s definitely one of the best but not the best imo. It does however have some of my favorite dances and songs and probably the most famous dance Astaire and Rogers ever created.
• Top Hat is kind of like a more sophisticated version of Gay Divorcee. It also has probably the best example of the Big White Set that was ubiquitous to these films. If I’m not mistaken they dyed the water black to make the set stand out more *goes to check IMDB* yep!
• Our characters/actors: Jerry Travers (Fred Astaire), Dale Tremont (Ginger Rogers), Horace Hardwick (Edward Everett Horton), Madge Hardwick (Helen Broderick), Alberto Beddini (Erik Rhodes)
• I never realized it before but Horace and his valet are like a bickering old couple. In many ways, they make far more sense as a pair than Horace and Madge.
• I’m back again to gush about Astaire’s singing. He slides effortlessly into “No Strings (I’m Fancy Free)” straight from the dialogue, and it sounds perfectly natural. Like the way hb and I integrate Parks and Rec quotes into everyday dialogue, but obviously Astaire is a bit fancier.
• His line about feeling like a sailor at sea is fitting since, in his next film, he will indeed be a sailor.
• This is a favorite solo routine for sure. He’s just so joyful and in the groove. I especially like when he taps out the beat on the side table and startles Horace with short burst of taps.
• Horace thinks he’s such hot shit that some random young woman has come to see him at his hotel late at night.
• Astaire didn’t think he was handsome and didn’t enjoy watching himself on screen, hence the grimace when he looks in the mirror, which is played for a laugh. But that opinion runs contrary to Astaire’s place as one of the leading men of Hollywood and as one part of some of the most romantic moments in film history, primarily with Rogers. It lends credence to Katharine Hepburn’s famous saying that Astaire gave Rogers “class,” and she gave him “sex” (metaphorically). He’s arguably never sexier than when dancing with Ginger Rogers.
• When Dale comes upstairs to tell him to shut up, she gives zero effs. Doesn’t care that he’s trying to be charming or funny, or that he’s sorry for waking her, or that he’s flirting with her, doesn’t care about him at all in any way. Just shut up so I can sleep, is her message.
• But then. She is charmed by his soft shoe dance on a sandy floor to lull her to sleep.
• Spotted: young Lucille Ball as the florist’s assistant. We’ll see her in the next movie too where she’ll have her first ever credited roll.
• Astaire’s face when he asks, “Don’t I even get any thanks?” is so heartfelt and open. It always makes me awwwwwwww.
• Another favorite line of dialogue from these films:
Jerry, holding an umbrella in a downpour: “May I rescue you?”
Dale, unimpressed: “No, thank you. I prefer being in distress.”
• “Isn’t it a Lovely Day?” is a flirtatious song and they act it that way but the true flirting comes in the dance, which is about partnership and equality. They imitate one another throughout the scene, starting even while Astaire is singing. Rogers puts a hand on her chest and he then does the same. They’re dressed alike as well, thanks to her riding outfit, and that furthers the theme by making her more masculine to match him but it’s also advantageous for some of the moves they’ll perform, such as when she lifts him.
• Jerry thinks he’s in control. He’s surprised, but pleased, to find Dale has gotten up and followed him as he begins to dance. He thinks he’s won her over. Then she mocks him a bit by sticking her hands in her pockets like he’s done and surprises him even more by busting out her own little extra tap. She’s telling him she’s not there just to follow his lead and any relationship between them will only work if they’re equals.
• They’re definitely testing each other in this dance, finding out if they are drift compatible. Trying this step and that to see if the other can keep up. She keeps glancing at him in a self-satisfied way. He crosses his arms to see if she’ll do the same. They circle the space mirroring each other with every movement, and while they’re in sync, it’s still like one is leading and the other is following. Until they clap in unison, skip forward, and land at the exact same time. They spin around neatly and he glances over, smiling in pleasure, and so is she.
• The first time they touch is over a minute and a half in and it’s only to lend a hand so each can twirl in turn. They glide forward and back in a wide loop as the music builds and now they’re smiling in earnest and it’s not just the characters; it’s Astaire and Rogers. He mouths something to her, maybe more than once, and they’re both clearly enjoying themselves.
• It’s only in the last 30 seconds or so that they actually touch for real, and it’s because she has crooked her arm in invitation. He spins them around the bandstand together and although it’s a fairly standard move Astaire uses a lot, because they’re both in trousers, you can see just how close they are to one another, knees and hips pressed together.
• And now they combine both elements of the dance: imitation and partnership. They move as reflections of one another and take turns lifting each other. During this portion is where you once again can see the acting stop and the actors just being themselves. As they near the end of the dance, Astaire and Rogers both grin in delight and he maybe looks especially proud of her. This was a technical dance with a lot of movement and she nails it. While her gowns often add to their duets, it’s routines like this, where she’s in trousers, that you can see her technical skill really shine.
• One of the many ways Rogers contributed to the dancing partnership was in being their “button finder,” which means she was good at figuring out how to end a scene or dance. The best example is at the end of this dance, where she came up with the idea for them to finish by having Jerry and Dale simply shake hands.
• Don’t miss the sex joke in the middle of Horace and Jerry’s argument:
Horace, who is concerned about scandal ahead of Jerry’s show: “Why, I’d rather have had it (getting slapped) happen to me than to you.”
Jerry, not missing a beat: “Oh, of course, if you enjoy that sort of thing.”
Horace: “I do, immensely… (realizing what he’s just said) Now don’t be absurd!”
• Dale’s line, “I hate men. I hate you. I hate all men!” is a mood.
• Beddini’s response, “I am no man. I am Beddini!” is how all men think of themselves.
• Interesting that all we’ve seen Dale and Jerry do is dance a very fun, flirtatious, but not necessarily romantic duet (ok, fine it was in a bandstand while it was raining which is pretty romantic but you get it), and yet she says, “How could he have made love to me when he was married all the time?” 🤔🤔🤔
Further 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Horace: “You sure you didn’t forget yourself in the park?
Jerry: “Positive. If I ever forgot myself with that girl, I’d remember.”
• Seriously, there are some vibes between Horace and his valet. *gaydar pings very quietly out of earshot of the censors*
• I like Astaire’s little warm-up in his dressing room. Seems like the kind of thing he probably did irl.
• One of my absolute favorites moments is when Jerry instructs Horace to charter a plane so they can fly down to meet Dale. Horace asks, “What kind of plane?” And Jerry, already about to miss his stage cue, leans back into the doorway quickly to say, “One with wiiiings!”
• The physical “invitation” Jerry uses when singing the appropriate line in “Top Hat, White Tie and Tails” is actually Madge’s telegram about Dale. He took it on stage with him after snatching it from Horace’s hands.
• There are conflicting stories about how many canes Astaire broke while filming this sequence and which take was used. One account says he broke 12 canes in frustration while failing to get the number absolutely right and the 13th (and last cane) was used in the final take, which was then printed. But Astaire recalled that Jimmy Cagney, who was visiting the set at the time, advised him that he’d nailed it on the second take. Astaire wanted to try a couple more but the next day, agreed that Cagney was right and the second take was used.
• Shooting down his rivals with a cane and using taps for bullets was based on a gimmick Astaire had used years before in a terrible Broadway show. Here it became one of his most iconic creations. I especially like when he fires off a shot at the Horace’s stuffy club members in the audience.
• How on earth did Dale think that Jerry was married to Madge? In what world are they compatible? Granted, she hasn’t actually met Horace but still.
• While Horace is in the bathtub in his shower cap:
Horace: “Jerry! I don’t think it’s safe for you to see that girl alone.”
Jerry: “Well, I don’t think it would be quite proper for you to receive her that way.”
• In most Astaire/Rogers movies, he has a lot of bravado and pursues her but she almost always ends up shocking the hell out of him when she turns out to also be ballsy af. In Gay Divorcee, she invited him to her room. In Top Hat, she comes up to see him alone and then kisses him.
Hardly a romantic kiss btw. But we still aren’t to the place where we talk about the lack of kisses in this film series.
• Aaaaaand again, Astaire’s singing is so perfect for this song. He leads straight from conversation into the lyrics. The music has already been playing in the background, and he makes it appear he’s created the lyrics of “Cheek to Cheek” just for her in this moment.
• Rogers does a magnificent job of softening when he starts to sing. Her eyes flick up and down his face, touched that he’s serenading her. And when Astaire drops his tone on the word “seek,” his gaze is heated for a just a moment and her lips quirk a little. Being sung to is awkward but she makes it seem like the most romantic thing.
• Like in “Night in Day” in Gay Divorcee, this dance is about seduction but its more developed than in the prior film. Because the characters have already danced together, elements of “Isn’t it a Lovely Day?” seep in, such as the short tap routine they do side by side. Instead of getting her to simply give in to him, he is asking her to trust him, to remember the equality and partnership they’d built before. He almost never takes his eyes off her for the entire dance, even watching her out of the corner of his eye when they’re side by side.
• I would say most of this dance falls into the “acting” category but there are a couple Astaire and Rogers moments that peek through. After the first time he leans her back and them brings them together so their faces are close, he smiles privately to her. After their little tap section, he swings her back into his arms and they’re both smiling in delight.
• A few times the only place they’re touching is his hand on her back and there’s something very Victorian hot about that.
• I’ve always liked the moment where she twirls and he waits, hand outstretched, expression openly adoring, until she takes his hand without looking and they’re in sync again.
• Another callback to “Isn’t it a Lovely Day?”: In that dance, she crooked her arm in invitation to him. Here, she leaves her arm up so he can wrap it around his neck.
• Several times he leans her back, each time dipping her a little further and keeping her there a little longer, but never failing to hold her and bring her up. Each time showing her she can trust him. When they reach the climax, she bends back completely and he holds her for several looooong seconds before very slowly returning her to her feet. Complete surrender and trust from them both. And after that moment, there is no need for anything else to cement their relationship. He can simply bring them cheek to cheek.
• Something that is evident in most of his partnered dances but perhaps most obvious in a duet like this with Rogers is that Astaire was very good about making his partner the central focus. Your eyes instinctively watch Rogers, not him, throughout the performance. But credit must also be given to Rogers herself for commanding the screen so thoroughly not solely because of her elegant dancing and gorgeous gown but because she remembers to keep acting the entire time. We never doubt that Dale is falling in love with Jerry through this dance.
• Sooo the feather dress. So much to say, some of which you may already know:
The short story is, as soon as they started filming the dance, the feathers on the dress flew everywhere. No one wanted that dress to be used, except Ginger Rogers, and she refused to wear something else.
Director Mark Sandrich, who was a dick to Rogers all the time, wanted her to wear a gown from Gay Divorcee. She told him to GTFO. Then she called her badass mom who came to the set to also tell him to GTFO.
Because they could be little shits, Astaire and Hermes Pan made up lyrics mocking the dress, set to the tune of "Cheek to Cheek.” They went, "Feathers, I hate feathers, And I hate them so that I can hardly speak, And I never find the happiness I seek, With those chicken feathers dancing cheek to cheek."
Rogers was pissed, not in the least because she had designed the dress herself and also they were ostrich feathers tyvm. Tbh it does look pretty magnificent in the final edit of the film… but that was after every single feather had been hand sewn into place. And you can still see some of them float off.
In their next film, Astaire is going to get whacked in the face by the heavy, beaded sleeve of Rogers’ dress so he really had it easy here.
He also knew he’d gone too far in poking fun at her dress and generally being an ass about the entire situation. Astaire apologized to Rogers by giving her a gold feather for her charm bracelet and affectionately calling her “Feathers” in the accompanying note (“Dear Feathers, I love ya! -Fred”). The nickname stuck. Later, he would also give her a beautiful travel watch that was housed in a golden envelope. Engraved on the outside of the envelope in Astaire’s writing? “By Hand/To Feathers/All best love -Fred.”
• The dress is absolutely essential to the dreamy quality of this dance. It makes her look like she’s floating along, caught up in being in love and in his arms. She even seems to come out of a daydream once they’ve finished dancing.
• The plot and dialogue jump through so many hoops to avoid Madge ever once saying, “my husband’s friend, Jerry,” which would clear up everything instantly.
• Interesting that when Dale reminisces sadly about her love for Jerry, whom she doesn’t think she can actually be with, the tune that plays is “Isn’t it a Lovely Day?” and not “Cheek to Cheek.” High romance is lovely but sometimes nothing beats being able to laugh and have fun together.
• Horace and Jerry have been sharing the bridal suite, as it was the only room available when they arrived. But now that Dale has impulsively agreed to marry Beddini, the management asks if Jerry and Horace would be wiling to give up the suite in exchange for a different room.
Jerry: “Well, we’ve hardly settled in it yet… Have we, angel?”
Horace: “No, and all our clothes are...(realizing Jerry is teasing him) Oh, please.”
• Upon finally realizing what’s actually been going on with Dale:
Jerry: “She’s been mistaking me for Horace all this time.”
Madge: “No wonder she thought Horace was fascinating.”
Horace: “Heh, no wonder. (then immediately) I resent that.”
• Perhaps poking fun at the way dances had been filmed until he took charge, Astaire and Rogers’ portion of “The Piccolino” starts with a close up of their feet. But instead of then cutting to a full body shot, the shot widens to show them and the dance continues all in one take.
• This may be a strange place to talk about how right Astaire and Rogers look together but I’m gonna do it anyway. Their heights are very complimentary and they move like extensions of one another. The routine is quick and bouncy, incorporating several styles and switching between them rapidly. Throughout, Astaire and Rogers elevate one another with their individual grace and skill. That element is only going to continue to grow in the next couple of films.
• At one point he whips around to pull her in so they can spin like they did in the bandstand. As she waits for him, Rogers’ face lights up and they go into the move smiling wide. Soon after, Astaire playfully raises his eyebrows to her. At another point, they step forward slowly, eyes on each other, and there’s a glimpse of that private world they sometimes slip into during their dances. The whole time, they’re absolutely flawless.
• It wouldn’t have made sense to record the taps, etc live like “I’ll Be Hard to Handle” in Roberta but I wonder what might’ve been picked if they had. Aside from when they clap and there’s no sound, Astaire says something to her when they’re dancing in a circle facing each other. She definitely seems to be giggling at several points.
• When the music kicks up and they go into an energetic section, he bows and flourishes his hand to her, once again making her the main focus.
• While filming the final scene of the movie, Sandrich (the director) wanted the duo to do a short ending dance and he told them this on the day of filming. Astaire and Rogers were peeved. Every bit of dancing, no matter how small, was always rehearsed. But Sandrich, who, again, was a dick, insisted. According to Rogers, she privately told Astaire to simply move her about however he wanted and she would follow along. In all likelihood, they probably did whip up this little dance and rehearse it quickly but you’d never know it wasn’t planned ahead of time.
She obviously had a lot of trust in his ability to lead them both but she also knew he was an excellent social dancer, meaning he didn’t necessarily need a pre-rehearsed routine. And she knew this because they’d gone dancing back in New York when they were dating.
• Here’s a cool behind the scenes picture from The Academy’s archive taken during the final scene.
![Tumblr media](https://64.media.tumblr.com/66a7ff109640af8300453903bc388283/48a9a5c6c60a3e28-f3/s540x810/1cc083a2a21ef7ca59e30bc9b26bbde132867214.jpg)
• And so we’ve finished Top Hat, another glamorous adventure for Astaire and Rogers. Up is a more working class outing: Follow the Fleet.
#fred astaire#ginger rogers#top hat#classic hollywood#old hollywood#astaire and rogers rewatch#fred and ginger#any gifs without credit are mine#bc sometimes i just need a specific gif#and no one else has done it or i can't find it#so you're welcome to the three people reading these posts
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Manipulating a God | chpt. four
Synopsis: Trying to break the information out of Loki during the attack of 2012 wasn’t exactly the easiest task, but it was a challenge you were willing to take head on. So, what happened when a master manipulator tried to get information from the God of Mischief?
Series warnings: Swearing, mentions of violence, blood and gore
Pairings: Stark!Reader x Loki
A/N: sooooo. i am sooooo sorry it has been so long. there have been many personal/school/work issues the past few weeks and i have neglected this. :( But, I am back and very excited to continue. So, i hope you all enjoy and thanks sososo much for you patience i love you all. xoxoxoxoxo
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Since agreeing to the case of investigating Loki, the entire team had been throwing tidbits and important information your way any chance they could get. You told them you were listening, jotting down everything in your mental notepad, but honestly, you were more confident about the whole thing than they thought. Thor was the only one who seemed to believe you could handle it yourself. Of course, he didn’t view Loki as a murderer the same way everyone else did, but he was also the one who really knew what Loki was capable of.
Thor told you a lot about Loki’s history and childhood; a frost giant, taken in by Odin, given the impression that he could eventually rule, living in incredible self-doubt, all that jazz. Small, personal things you hadn’t found on Google. You debated questioning him about the whole ‘Loki fucking a giant wolf’ thing but figured that that wasn’t information you needed - nor wanted - to know.
Tony on the other hand wanted to stop you as best as he could. He even tried locking you in your room once or twice (or five times.) Of course, he was fully on board with dragging Loki through verbal (and probably physical) Hell to get information that was desired, but he was worried you would fall victim to his lies and lose your mind, and in his words ‘have a Joker-like descent into madness.’
You couldn’t say you had the same vision, but we all know Tony can be quite the drama queen.
Steve, who you now trusted more than you thought you could, told you he’d be there for you if ever you needed help. Apparently being a part of the second World War could help this situation, so he offered you some strange advice on how to hold your ground. Your favorite, for example, was; “if ever he tells you he’s going to be a wonderful ruler, don’t trust him, Hitler said the same.” Steve had good intentions, sure, but his constant reminiscing made you feel as if you were a child listening to their grandfather speak about how ‘getting to school was so much harder in my day.’
Natasha, who was quite trained in the field of manipulation as well, gave you some tips she learnt in her mysterious past - some of which you already knew. Always form a connection. Listen to them. Don’t put them down if you want them to trust you. Simple things that worked wonders. Things you had used before, mostly on Tony, but they worked either way.
Sure, Loki was of another world, and he was the infamous God of Mischief. So, he had an obvious advantage over you, and you’d admit, a part of you was worried that he wouldn’t fall for you tactics and eventually be the one to drag you down to the deep dark depths. But, you were willing to take this challenge head on and nothing was going to stop you. For now, at least. If ever Loki dug his claws into your lungs to the point where you were gasping for breath and surrender was the only option, you’d opt out. But your goal was to not let it get to that point.
You hadn’t actually gotten the chance to speak one on one with Loki since his capturing, but Fury gave you a rundown of his so-called ‘prison’ chamber to ensure your safety. Which button to press if Loki went ballistic, where the security cameras were hidden out, which button to press to drop the cage - the basics. He also told you there’d always be someone listening in at all times, so if ever there was danger and you somehow didn’t sense it, you wouldn’t be alone.
But finally, today was your first day in getting to start breaking him down, and a part of you was slightly looking forward to it. On the countless times you had used your manipulative tactics to gain information from people in order to save your slightly self-sacrifical brother, none of it felt like it was up to the standard of actually being of worldly, even grave importance. The information you were trying to get from this guy was going to be do-or-die, and the sadistic side of you was slightly exhilarated at the thought.
“Alright, Y/N, are you ready to start? Remember, I’ll be watching everything,” Fury warned as if you were his daughter and about to go hang out with someone of the opposite sex for the first time.
“Yes, dad, I know you’ll be watching,” you reassured him, following him into the room where Loki was being kept, the loud thud of your overly-eager footsteps startling the man at the computer when you entered the room.
The dark, circular room was surrounding by computers, machines, pipes, wires, anything technological that you could think of. The only light source, though, seemed to be coming from the glowing white cage in the center of the room. The overwhelming scent of metal was almost aggressively jabbing at your nostrils, but you weren’t too affected - this is what Tony usually smells like after his Iron Man expeditions. You eventually turned your attention to the man standing in the center of the room.
When your eyes landed on him, you ended up staring more than you wanted. He looked so much worse than the first time you saw him. His pale, white complexion looked almost green, the deep indent of his eyes and cheekbones resembled the deepest craters and the pale blue of his eyes dulled down to a lifeless grey. His hair was messier, the little points at the end no longer bouncy, almost looking discouraged. You know, if it were possible for hair to have that emotion.
Fury had dismissed himself quietly and walked back out the same door, leaving you and Loki glaring at each other. You could tell he was reading you the same way you were him. His long cloak stayed put on his shoulders, but somehow, it looked just as dead as the rest of him.
“So, is this the best Fury has to offer?” His sultry voice spiked your ears, and you almost forgot you were here to actually speak to him, the staring contest feeling like it had lasted eight years.
“If anything, I think I’m the best Fury has. Period.” You shrugged, eyeing the small metal chair placed in front of his cell. You slowly walked over to it, fully aware of the God’s undivided attention following your every move.
He chuckled lowly at your comment as you sat down, “So, to what do I owe this insufferable thrill?”
Insufferable thrill?
“I’d like to think of myself as an angelic pleasure, but whatever suits your fancy,” you replied, crossing your legs and leaning back against the cold metallic chair, brushing past Loki’s insult.
Remember: don’t let him affect you.
“Why are you here?” He quipped, the teasing tone of his voice gone as he sat down in his cell, eyes boring into you as he searched for his answers.
Your mind thought up of something to justify your presence, “Uh - is it true you fucked a giant wolf?”
Smooth. Real smooth.
“Where did you hear this?” He asked, slightly more amused than he had previously been. His lips formed upwards into a subtle smirk, slightly confirming your question which once again, you didn’t really want an answer to.
“Never mind, uh, I actually have something serious I want to ask you,” you brushed past your initial awkward question, trying to set the tone that you were going to ask the questions around here and not the other way around.
He raised his hand as if to say ‘go ahead,’ leading you to proceed with your so-called interrogation.
“What’s the interest in Earth?” You found yourself asking, out of both curiosity and in following with Fury’s plan. Loki leaned back against the glass, crossing his arms as he took in your question.
He seemed to ponder, “Have we not gone over the cockroach metaphor--”
“Yeah, yeah, we have,” you rolled your eyes, “but seriously, out of all the galaxies and planets that have life and resources, what is it with out little home that’s caught your specific attention?”
His face seemed to drop slightly as you said ‘your’ - almost as if referring to the attack as ‘his’ had somehow upset him. He looked down to the ground, uncrossing his arms before making eye contact once more.
“Earth has something - something very valuable, priceless, something we’ve been looking for.”
If you didn’t know better, you’d think his tone was somewhat luring - as if he wanted you to ask for more information, but at the same time, wanted you to stay away from the details. It didn’t really make senseYou scanned him with your eyes once more. His body was slouched, showing vulnerability. If anything, this was way too easy. He had to be playing you somehow.
“What have we got that you want? Obama? Maybe some chicken wings?”
Loki scoffed, “No, you dim-wit. Something much more valuable than some Earthling. Or cheap food. Besides, your puny human brain wouldn’t be able to comprehend the power that I could find here.”
You made a mental note to bring that exact quote up to Fury later - the tone of Loki’s voice led you to believe there was subtext or some sort of hidden meaning that you couldn’t quite put your finger on.
“And what is this ‘power’ you speak of? Spill the tea, Loki,” you responded, leaning forward in your chair to listen better. Sure, you could hear just fine from the previous position you were in, but your subconscious says otherwise.
“As if I’d tell you,” he rolled his eyes once more, “I know Fury’s sent you here just to get information from me, but it won’t work that easy, I know they’re all listening in.” A smirk made its way onto his lips as he caught onto your act.
You knew Loki would catch on to what you were doing eventually - I mean, you were here to get information, and that was obvious, but a part of you felt as if you had already failed your little quest and it hadn’t even been ten minutes. But honestly, what else was he supposed to think with you coming in here and asking questions? You were here to get information.
Struggling to find your next words, you started laughing. Loki raised an eyebrow in confusion, looking around to check if there was some sort of joke he hadn’t seen.
“Ha, you think that’s why I’m here? To just wait around and work with what you’ve got at your pace?” you toned down the laughter slightly, regaining your breath, “Please, we wouldn’t go through that much trouble, we just want you dead. Or gone. Fury’s already planned the ten thousand ways he could behead you. No, no, we’re not that desperate, nor are you that important. I’m here because once I get framed with murder for ripping you apart, I’ll be able to justify it.”
Loki’s smirk dropped, the amusement disappearing from his eyes, “What did you just say to me?”
Chuckling once more, you raised an eyebrow at him, “What? Don’t like it when someone talks back to you, Mister Hot-Shot?” you leaned back in the chair, “Get used to it.”
Loki let out a sassed-filled sigh, dropping his shoulders as if he had been scolded, and started to mumble what sounded like, “No, it was just unnecessary.”
Now it was your turn to scoff as Loki took offence, looking like a small child who had been denied cookies before dinner. Your amusement spiked at his behaviour, his avoidance of eye contact being the cherry on top.
“You’re such a child,” you remarked, the unmissable pout disappearing from his lips, his eyes snapped back up to you as he stood up to defend himself.
“A child? Please, I’m over a thousand years old, have experienced wars, loss, have wrecked havoc - I have seen things your eyes can’t even begin to comprehend, and I am a God,” he was now right in front of you, of course separated by glass, but intimidating nonetheless, “Do not refer to me as a child--”
“You don’t have to be so touchy,” you smirked, standing up as well, “Sit down.”
Not used to taking commands, Loki blinked multiple times as he registered your words, practically discarding everything he just said about himself. Silently, he sat back down, leaving you to mentally swim around in victory.
“Now, here’s what’s going to happen, Loki,” you placed your hands behind your back (you felt like Fury) as you started to walk around the circular cell, Loki’s eyes glued to you, “You are going to tell me what’s going on. I don’t care how much you think your honour and God-liness is going to prevent that - I will eventually get the answers I’m looking for. Now, you can either cooperate and get yourself sent safely back to Asgard - or we can do this the hard way - and believe me, with a team of enhanced superheroes who have a lot of fucking built-up anger and long-lasting unresolved issues, I can’t see that as being fun for you. Unless, of course, you’ve got some sort of dark sadistic torture kink, that is.”
You had made your way around the whole cell by now and were standing by the door, Loki’s eyes still stuck on you like flex tape, his mouth slightly open. To say you were basking like a champion would be an understatement. You felt over the fucking moon right now, having left the God of Mischief speechless on your first day of your mission. His lips formed into a smirk once he caught up to what you had said.
A small smirk formed on your lips too as you turned away, “Anyways, I need to go eat, my stomach’s been gurgling for a while now, so whenever I return, you can feel free to give me what I’m looking for. Have a lovely evening, Loki.”
You swayed in pride as you walked out of the room, Loki not uttering another word as you disappeared from his sight. Part of you felt as if you could have stuck around a little more to apply a bit more pressure, but at the same time, you didn’t want him thinking you were giving him all of your attention. He’d probably love that too much.
Making your way back into the main control room, you noticed Tony, Steve, and Thor huddled around the table, probably having watched your encounter with the dark-haired man. Fury stood not far away, hands clasped behind his back, his eye on you as you entered the room.
“How’d I do on my first day, boss?” You asked, a small smile playing at your lips. Fury sighed, looking over to Tony who had now stood up.
“Well, you were only in there for twenty minutes, so it was short--” Fury began speaking until he was cut off by Tony’s obnoxiously loud voice.
“I didn’t realize how much of a badass you were, lil sis,” he wrapped an arm around your shoulder, leaning in to say the last part to you instead of yelling it to the whole room, “You make me proud.”
You chuckled, leaning in to his touch, “Gee, thanks big brother.”
“As I was saying,” Fury regained your attention, “It was short, but effective. You’ve left him thinking.”
Fury pointed to the screen which displayed the room you were just in. Loki was sitting in the same position, his eyes still glued to the door that you walked out of not five minutes ago, that damed smirk still on his lips.
“What can I say? I have that effect on men,” you smirked, a strange wave of confidence coming over you from who knows where. Fury groaned slightly, ignoring your comment. Tony played the exact same reaction.
“You’ve messed with his mind, that’s a good first step. But, you’re going to have to be more logical than emotional from now on. You got this.”
You grinned, patting Fury on the shoulder as you made your way to the small array of snacks on the table. You couldn’t lie, a part of you was left thinking about Loki too. You didn’t really like it, but at the same time, it helped you process what had just happened. You remembered the mental note you had made to yourself while talking to Loki, but figured you’d bring it up once your stomach got food. Fury’s ears were probably dealing with a lot right now since Maria just dragged him away, blabbing about some computer errors.
Thankfully, someone had brought out some food (finally) and you were grabbing just about everything you could - salad, crackers, cheese, whatever was in front of you. If this was what being aboard the helicarrier brought you, maybe you could live with it.
For now, you continued to think about what you were going to go over with Loki tomorrow, and hoping that things would work out much better now that you stood your ground.
You were proud of yourself too, in all honesty. Loki’s shock to your statement might have just been some sort of game, but at the same time, you had the guts to say it. That’s what mattered, and that’s what was important.
Fury’s words echoed into your head as Tony started a conversation with Thor about how hotdogs weren’t sandwiches.
You got this.
Damn right, you did.
Taglist
[Message me to be added - if you’re in bold it means I somehow wasn’t able to tag you, apologies!]
@appleappleton @what-a-fantasy @the-girl-of-many-fandoms1414 @brighteyedmichelle @leasly @cassiopeia-barrow @jay-the-mothafuckin-gay @themusingsofmany @bambamwolf87 @thefandomzoneisdangerous @cyberskeletonhandsbat @ultracarpediemfan @vgirl-10123 @bangvateez @leximills666 @littleredstarfish @blue-spider-official @what-a-fantasy @hello-lemons @yandereforyou @hippityhopitygetoffmyproperty @godhateskyleigh
#loki#loki imagine#loki imagines#loki series#loki fanfic#loki fanfics#loki fanfiction#loki fanfictions#avengers imagine#avengers imagines#avengers fanfiction#avengers fanfic#avengers fanfictions#avengers fanfics#avengers series#marvel imagine#marvel imagines#marvel fanfiction#marvel fanfics#loki x reader#loki one shot#loki one shots#tom hiddleston imagine#tom hiddleston imagines
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CALLOUT POST
@currynahh / @currynya is a shitty person.
I am making this post because I refuse to let them throw around accusations that I'm a predator.
Reasons I believe they are shitty:
I have ADHD, but I'll try not to derail any points.
After not seeing my spouse since Highschool, they invited them to a discord server. I was brought along and given a "+1" role, as in "This person isn't one of us, just @twiranux 's +1. I wouldn't have had a problem with that if it didn't create and "In group" and "out group" where the people in the ingroup treated the +1 role as "not a friend, just a +1."
They have a room for venting in that server, as a lot of people do. I have seen people typing in there on three occasions and decided not to interrupt them for my own needs, however the time I got to start typing in there and posted a couple of messages to indicate I would be typing, someone else came in and made it about them. I doubt they meant harm by that, but I went to @currynahh and explained it hurt to be silenced like that. I wasn't looking for an apology, I was looking for a solution so other people don't get hurt. My proposed suggestion was a second vent room for if there were 2 people needing it at once on that large a server, it would be helpful, or atleast a rule about interrupting vulnerable people. They dismissed this saying "two rooms wouldn't help because what if there were THREE people" which, if there were three people at the same time one would still have to wait, but the line would be split in half and people would be able to use it if it was an emergency and the first space was already taken without interrupting.
When they dismissed this idea, I said (and I dont have the exact quote as I left the channel, something @currynahh is very particular about is exact phrasing.) "If there's no rule against interrupting I guess next time I'm in need to type and someone is already using the safe space, I'll just be That Dickhead[TM] and interrupt? Can't wait." to which they threatened me with a ban, assuming I meant I was going to actively hurt people instead of just pointing out that there being no rule meant ANYONE could be That Dickhead[TM]
I also pointed out the inconsistency of threatening me with a ban for saying I'd do what the other user actually did and cut someone off. (they never spoke to the person who interrupted me about the event, to my knowledge, and I never spoke to them or saw their name) so I referred to them as "the fucker who interrupted me." Not in a mean way, just.. Here people can be called fuckers, like calling kids brats. I apologized once they said they found that rude, but they kept bringing it up saying I was name calling.
This is Hearsay, but apparently they said the person probably interrupted me because of ADHD, they seem a bit too comfortable deciding what is a factor of someone's else disabilities without consulting them.
Them dismissing my problems and threatening me with a ban instead of trying to fix their server made me actually go to name calling, and I still feel it's fair to call them a heartless cunt. Heartless for pretending to care when really they just wanted to defend someone in the in-group, Cunt cause it's a great word and it fits. I know the word Cunt is seen more harshly in some places, again, so much here. They really take offense to regional and class based dialects. They went to a private school and were calling me mean for just calling a dude I had no name for as "a fucker" when to me, someone who's poor and went to public school in a shitty town in Ontario, it's the norm here.
Since they showed they really didn't care I told them they were fake and left their channel, my spouse chose to follow me which I didnt know about at the time.
They DMed my spouse with another person who hasn't spoken to my spouse or I in 6 years to call me toxic, abusive and a predator. My spouse said they wouldn't have that conversation without me, as its childish and unproductive to just talk behind peoples backs. When @currynahh kicked me out of the group chat, refusing to talk like adults, my spouse asked me to log into their account to participate since they didn't want to be cornered by these two people to talk shit about someone they care about.
They call me toxic and abusive because I vaguely know the passwords to @twiranux 's accounts, despite never logging in unless asked to (for example a daily event in a videogame that they won't be able to make in time but wants the rewards.) and because on one occasion while I was napping, my spouse forgot an agreement we made about watching a specific movie together and I was upset about that, as I'm sure most people would be if their partner agreed to not watch something without them. I tried to keep my cool and just stay out of the way of their enjoyment, but my spouse wanted me to join in atleast for the end so I did, still grumpy but trying to make the best of it. If they had waited an hour or chose a different movie, things would've been different but @currynahh doesn't want "excuses."
They call me a predator because the person I'm married to is 2 years younger than me. @twiranux and I have been together almost 9 years now, we started Long Distance Online Dating just playing minecraft, listening to owl city (our song's Honey and The Bee 🐝,) and making Garry's Mod youtube videos. We would've been about 13 and 15 at the time, though it is worth noting that our birthdays were less than a month away from when we started dating so 14 and 16 if you want to make that distinction, I was in class with people the same age as my spouse. They think the age is gross, but we were two neurodivergent kids who were extremely sheltered at the time (helicopter parents/physical disabilities) who could only have freedom online. We had met through liking the same movies and youtubers and knew eachother a year before, while I was asking for advice on asking someone else out, my now spouse confessed attraction to me and I suggested we try "dating" for a bit, which consisted of nothing new except drawing cute pictures and giving eachother nicknames. I dont know if I knew their age at the time, but I did think they were a boy which didn't change anything, just hopefully shows I wasn't some 30 year old neckbeard hunting for kids on the net, I was just a disabled kid who was caught off guard by a confession of attraction and rolled with it.
@currynahh says they have proof that we weren't innocent in highschool, as (they claim) we asked them to write nsfw fanfic about us, which.. we didn't? My spouse has no idea where thats coming from and neither do I so just a blatant lie. Not that it's anyone's business but my spouse and I didnt meet in person for about 4 years and anything physical took place after we were both legal adults, im not comfortable going into more detail.
After my spouse had me log onto their account to show they weren't going to be cornered by those two, I was allowed back into the group chat to try and figure out why they think im problematic, but @currynahh insists im just making excuses when I've just been saying exactly what im saying here. They say I'm sugarcoating it, I disagree. I dont have the exact words I said about everything, but admitting to calling her a Heartless Cunt isn't something I'd do if i were sugarcoating it as she suggests. This is how it played out they keep trying to shove me into this "abuser" box they framed me in without knowing me.
They would repeatedly spew paragraphs of "points" then block me and leave the group chat while I was typing up a response. They don't want excuses (read: explanations) and they don't care about facts (that they misunderstood certain things and was willing to clear up what I meant if they weren't so caught up on semantics.)
I will not go into my partners mental illnesses on this platform, but they have a psychiatrist who I've met and I have to (sometimes in a way that looks controlling to someone who doesn't know the problems) keep my spouse grounded. The Psychiatrist thought I was doing a great job at managing it, but @currynahh disagrees, saying I'm enabling (without even letting us tell them what the problem is or how im helping.)
Which brings us to the next point; they say I can't talk about the mental health of myself or my spouse because it will trigger them, meaning they block any attempt we make at explaining how it works. They treat us as a neurotypical couple and call it abusive when I'm literally just doing what's deemed best by a psychiatrist for my spouse.
For DARING to tell her to stop calling me a predator, she calls me a narcissist, which is just.. Very cool. Love me some armchair diagnosis. They also diagnosed me with anger issues (from one call in which I was grumpy and then me trying to defend myself from these accusations.) So really, I think docs are being paid too much 'cause @currynahh is doing their job for free.
Because they weren't listening to my spouse, my spouse decided to stop typing, especially since she was just going on long rants then leaving the server before we could reply. Whenever @twiranux gets a chance to speak, @currynahh would leave the server claiming it triggers their anxiety to face the consequences of what they said. Then they would tell me to quit speaking over @twiranux when I was just speaking on our behalf, while in a call with @twiranux due to these reasons.
Instead of keeping their nose out of our relationship like we were asking, they kept trying to tell my spouse (who chose to marry me and lives in another country) that im abusive because they think trusting eachother is a sign of abuse.
Instead of listening that we're fine, they throw a tantrum and tell us to go to marriage counseling (which, although I wouldn't be opposed to going, is very telling that they think people can just do things that require money on a whim.)
They say that "instead of saving up to move in together and have kids you should put money towards marriage counseling" which again, what savings do they think I have? My bank account has -$4.00 in it and my spouse can't work right now. We have nothing.
They keep bringing up kids and how would we raise them? Would they not have privacy? Its a stupid point they threw out there as currently there aren't plans to have kids and there's huuuge difference between a married couple knowing eachothers passwords and not letting your kids have privacy.
They keep bringing up the fact that we've lost friends before without knowing why. So if they want to private message me I'd be happy to tell her about how we left our last friend group after a dispute where the other people were claiming the N word was inoffensive. Or the group that actually was trying to get into my spouses pants and we weren't comfortable there. You keep making accusations then refusing to listen to facts.
Idk if I'm missing anything, if they unblock me and see this they will probably say I'm staw-manning again without actually telling me how and while having no counter arguments. They also don't accept my adhd for accidentally derailing, while using theirs to deflect any criticism.
Karina, you don't know us and you say even talking about our mental health will trigger you, so you need to accept that you're unwilling or unable to understand the dynamics of our relationship but just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's toxic. I wouldn't have made this post if you didn't keep calling me a predator, but I need to clear that accusation publicly before you keep throwing around dangerous labels.
Grow up. Get some help. Learn that your POV isn't the only one.
#they seemed to have changed their blog to currynya now#If you stop calling me a predator and stopped treating me like an abuser without listening and instead had a proper adult conversation on#discord id be willing to take down this post#but as it sits i have no choice since you keep attacking my character#currynya#currynahh
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All We Do, This Repeats
I've noticed a trend in The Dragon Prince: characters repeat phrases first spoken by those they love and/or have influenced them. This is part the show's themes -- how adults imprint on children (good and bad), perpetuation of prejudice, and so on. Think of Harrow's, Callum's, and later Ezran's (paraphrased from memory) "Growing up sometimes means facing things you aren't ready for." Sometimes, us viewers don't know it's an echo until much later, like when Harrow calls dark magic a shortcut in S1 Ep2, he's using Sarai's words (S2 Ep5). These quotes are rewatch bonuses (if you forgot), and act as an emotional-impact tetherball, swinging around to hit you in the back of the head with feels.
I have a short list of examples, but I want to focus on Rayla. When she corners Callum and reiterates the Xadian grievances against Katolis, she declares, "Justice will not be denied." Runaan says those exact words on the castle walls later that night. We know Justice is important to him; it's the, aha, justification for their mission and deeds. Because of this, it seems safe to conclude that she was also being a little Runaan parrot when she counters Callum's objections to killing Ezran with, "An assassin doesn't decide right and wrong, only life and death!" Hell, she even tries to act like her mentor in that scene: head held high, slightly overdramatic line delivery, body poised, weapons out. For better and/or worse, he has heavily influenced her.
Something Rayla said in Season 2 jumped out at me as another possible learned phrase:
Lujanne: "[...] Real trust is accepting even the dark parts [of a person] we will never know." Rayla: "No. No, I don't think that's right. Lying and hiding the truth aren't that different. Strong relationships need honesty, the full truth.” Lujanne (laughs): "Oh! Now you sound like my first three husbands."
Where and how did Rayla learn that wisdom? From her parents? From being Runaan's fosterling and/or their recent separation? (Thinking of the official Tumblr's suggested song for them, "Trust Me" by The Fray.") Or -- this is my favorite guess -- did Runaan mess up in a romantic relationship (presumably with Tinker) because he half-lied about his profession? Hopefully, we'll find out.
#the dragon prince#tdp#tdp analysis#tdp meta#the definition of meta has changed in the last decade#rayla#tdp rayla#runaan#tdp runann#harrow#tdp harrow#king harrow#sarai#tdp sarai#tdp tinker#someday we will know that elf's name#tinker elf#ezran#tdp ezran#lujanne#tdp lujanne
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(SU:F Theory - Snow Day) Has Steven REALLY Changed That Much?
...Or is he just still dealing with an old issue?
(I intended to post this last week, but apparently forgot to actually, you know, post it. >_< I’ve got another one upcoming, but here’s this one for now.)
EDIT: Some edits have been made. Not gonna stress myself over the details this time.
My Feelings on the Ep
Okay, I dunno about you, but I actually found the story of Snow Day pretty upsetting. The whole thing was about Steven running from his childhood favorites, and he pretty much stated that it was because he didn't want to be seen as a kid.
Sure, I can get behind not liking when people assume you haven't changed, especially when the changes in question have to do with you learning and growing (been there... -.-), but it didn't feel like that was the real issue. I mean, there's growing up and changing, and then there's more-or-less trying to hide, or to erase the past. IMO, this ep showed Steven trying to avoid "kids stuff" to an extreme. He literally jumped over the edge!
And not just the kids stuff, but it feels to me like he's been avoiding silly stuff in general, like that goofy charm that seemed like an essential character trait throughout the first series.
Even the idea that he could've left behind so much of the goofiness I love was pretty distressing - it really feels like he's trying to run away from a part of himself, essentially killing a part of himself (or at least a version thereof). But that's not the whole of the issue for me.
To me, it really kind of felt like Steven believed the Gems were wrong to still want to appreciate the old stuff with him - not because of “seeing him as a child, still,” but... like they couldn't still appreciate the way he used to be, even in a nostalgic sense. Like he believes that they shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the silly stuff, either. Or the little things in general.
(If you're not taking the time to pet something cute, I'd say it's pretty serious.)
Also: come on!! The Cheeseburger Backpack and Together Breakfast are two of the most iconic things of the series-es! And personally, like I kind of said, I’d say Steven's goofiness is right up there with them! Even the vegetarianism! Remember how big Steven was on hot dogs?
"I think there isn't such a thing as a bad [hot] dog, though. Only bad chefs!" - Steven, Wacky Sacks Unboxing minisode
It was even in the first opening of SU!
I don't mind that SU:F is more mature than SU, but it feels like it's missing a lot of the heart that made SU so easy to love. I’m even noticing that there's been a shortage a star-iris-endings. I’m pretty sure the last iris was used in Guidance... for a fake ending.
Not that I think the star-iris should be forced, but it seems like it's not being used, even when Crewniverse has a perfectly good chance to do so. The fact that they've used it at all suggests that they're not trying to avoid using it - more like they've fallen out of the habit, or something. And I’m really starting to feel the absence of the little bit of lighthearted warmth that it typically brings. It just kinda quietly punctuates just how serious the show has been.
...It's pretty depressing, really.
But yeah, in general, I'm not a big fan of the idea that you have to let go of kid things as soon as you grow up. Doctors believe that play is just as important for adults as it is for children. Heck, that article even mentions reading aloud to someone (and I'd say, by extension, being read to) as a form of play... one of the forms that Steven specifically avoids.
And if you ask me, The No Home Boys sounds like its pretty deep - not just a basic, “silly” kids’ story.
"My favorite story is this classic one where the No Home Boys are chased[...] by a mysterious pursuer, which turns out to be the very fear resting within themselves." - Steven, On The Run
At the very least, it's what led to him having an adventure that led to him learning something important, and to bringing to light - and resolving - some previously-unspoken tension between Pearl and Amethyst.
So at the very least, I wouldn't cast aside childish things so quickly, if only for all the good that they have already brought.
There's also the fact that adult play has been accepted as a pretty important thing in our current society - it's basically our culture now. As said on the YT Channel Lockstin & Gnoggin (in response to COPPA), "This isn't the 1970s anymore[...] Adults are no longer afraid to be interested in things." I mean, heck, I think odds are pretty good that if you’re reading this, you're probably an adult who enjoys “kids stuff.” I know I technically fit in that category - I’m getting old enough that I don't like to think about it. ^_^;
Personally, I believe that the “adults can still like ‘kids’ stuff” thing could really use more representation in mainstream media, ESPECIALLY after the whole COPPA thing. Personally, I’ve always believed that this would be done through Steven Universe.
And personally... I still think odds are good that it will.
Why I Think There's Still Hope for the Subject
The “adults enjoying ‘childish’ stuff” thing isn't just a thing with Millennials and the Internet in general: it's a pretty strong part of the culture of the Crewniverse, what with them actually enjoying Together Breakfast for the release of the ep by the same name. Not to mention donuts topped with Pop Rocks fire salt (exact quote - for Joking Victim), a big bowl of macaroni-and-nothing (for Warp Tour), and even a Rice Krispie temple that promptly got pummeled by a giant hand (technically for Bismuth, but also referencing Jailbreak). And those are just a few examples.
And in general, I've noticed that SU is very Millennial show, featuring values like that the reason for work should be to enjoy life, rather than to make money (Drop Beat Dad), and I've already said that being able to enjoy "kids stuff" as an adult is a pretty Millennial thing.
So to me, it seems like it's probably inevitable that Steven's going to get over the "trying too hard to adult" thing. Heck, if anything, I'd say that Snow Day is just another part of the long-running-buildup.
Steven has a history of trying to cut everything “childish” out of his life, and/or being embarrassed when it's brought up.
This felt like an extension of that history - to me, it feels like this issue leveled up, like he's trying harder than ever before to avoid being associated with "kids stuff." His reaction to Garnet presenting the Cheeseburger Backpack certainly looks like one of embarrassment, and one of not even appreciating the gesture, regardless.
And if you look, this whole thing started when the Gems implied that birthday parties were a "kids thing."
(My apologies for VUDU’s captions - they got better, I promise.)
Since then, he’s been stuck on the idea that he would have to leave things behind as he got older.
Before that, he was trying to convince the Gems of just the opposite.
Little did Steven know that they actually came around, while he was away...
But now? Now that they've obviously come around, he's still having trouble getting over what was once said.
He's even overtly objecting to being called "cute," or like a kid!
I think this is a pretty good example of how one little thing can result in a problem that a person struggles with for a long time afterward; how one idea can result in a person pressuring themselves to try and be something or not, even if the people who gave the idea have changed their minds. I think it's a pretty good example of the kind of baggage - the kind of problems - we carry around with us.
And you know what the official description of SU:F says?
"[A]s [Steven] runs out of other people's problems to solve, he'll finally have to face his own."
I very much believe that this is one of them. =3
Before I saw the movie, I had been spoiled by the “catchup” vid for the last season clearly being narrated by an older-voiced Steven. (So sorry, Hilary, that you want through so much trouble, but the neck wasn't much of a secret to me. XD; ) And spoilers aside, it had been pretty well hinted that he was going to grow up, via both of the “Birthday” episodes.
(Personally, I’m kind of disappointed that we missed the magic growth spurt - I always thought it would've been hilarious. X3)
I’d often thought that Steven was going to grow up when he realized that he didn't have to leave “childish” stuff behind - that he can be grown up without having to "stop being a kid," or worrying about how people would see him if he didn't. I kind of figured it would allow him to feel more comfortable about growing up, and so he would grow up.
But, apparently, that's still a thing he needs to work on.
And sure, I'm glad Steven came around at least a little, but I wonder if it's really enough... especially since he doesn’t even seem sincere on loving that the Gems upgraded the Steven Tag game.
But also, it seems to me like this issue is affecting more of his personality than just his desire to have fun... like he's losing quite a bit of himself. Remember how Pearl once described him?
You have to feel like yourself! Sweet and considerate, and only occasionally obnoxious! - Pearl, So Many Birthdays
It does seem like Steven's been having trouble with the considerate angle, lately. I mean, he kept busting into Jasper's hideout, he took over Amethyst's mentorship program (completely ignoring the feelings of the Gems being mentored), and in general, he's kinda... asserting himself and his opinions more than listening to others('). I'd even say that he's lost a lot of his sweet, and he's... probably more than occasionally obnoxious. ^_^; I mean, Aquamarine and Eyeball certainly think so. X3
Now? Well... I'd say that the Gems have at least as much of a point as Steven does. I have to admit, I feel a lot like Amethyst - I think she has a point about the direction Steven is (or had been) heading, and about what kind of example he was setting.
I agree that the issue is serious enough for Pearl to be justified in being willing to join in (which I really love her doing =3).
(Seriously, I’ve actually been worried for Steven.)
...And now I’d say that her old plea to feel like himself again is even more valid than ever.
In a way, Snow Day felt a lot like So Many Birthdays in reverse: instead of Steven trying to spend time with the Gems and making them feeling awkward about silly stuff, we now have the exact opposite. Now, instead of allowing himself to still be a kid, Steven tries to convince them not to make him be a kid. ...Which, again, is fair, but still. I'd say it goes too far when he hates the idea of "kid."
But yeah... I figure this has gotta be addressed sooner or later. Personally, I can't wait fo the day when it is. XD;
...call me crazy - call me super crazy - but I’m hoping that a certain Pink Doofball* will talk some more sense into him. X3 That, or maybe his dad.
(*If you're not familiar with my blog... well, here's my main theory, in case you're interested. I know it probably sounds insane, but it would mean a lot if you'd give it a look.)
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DGM 231 - Panthaleia’s Translation Notes
Hello, dear friends and fellow fans! We return to the rubble of Tumblr you with DGM 231, the first chapter of this new year. Thanks for sticking with us!
Please see below the cut for my translation notes and reactions, as per usual. If you have any questions, do feel free to come say hi on Discord at Panthaleia#9705. :3
The Novel I'm Not Writing About DGM & Buddhism
Oooooookay, first things first! The four bubbles across Allen's collar on the cover page say 生々流転 seiseiruten. When spelled 生生流転 (homophonous), it simply means "ever-changing," but when spelled the way it is here (fantastic catch, thank you so much @togaochi ♥), it's defined as "all things being in flux through the endless circle of birth, death, and rebirth; the circle of transmigration."
That concept is much more succinctly described by the Sanskrit term saṃsāra. Now, to preclude confusion: yes, if you look up "samsara" in a Japanese dictionary, you'll get 輪廻 rin'ne rather than this. That said, this term is if anything more specific and descriptive than that one. See also 生死輪廻 seishirin'ne, which has the exact same definition as seiseiruten; think "cell" vs. “cellular phone” vs "mobile telephone." All words for the same thing, with varying degrees of descriptiveness.
The concept of samsara shows up in several religions (notably Buddhism, Hindu, and Jainism). The one most relevant to DGM by far is Buddhism, and this is far from the first time I've run into it in search of answers.
Crash course on some Buddhist jargon for those of you who aren't familiar:
The word samsara, meaning "continuous flow," describes the beginningless and potentially endless cycle of life and existence, through birth and living and death to re-birth and so on. It could also easily be pictured as a helix, if you'd prefer, and that could in fact make some of DGM a little easier to understand.
(If I may take a moment to get super self-indulgent here: a very related philosophical concept is panta rhei, "everything flows", which is what my "panthaleia" handle is mostly based on. This chapter very nearly literally has my name written on it. IT'S A SIGN. Of.... something. Not sure what, exactly, but IT'S A SIGN.)
Every living thing is trapped within this cycle by its attachments and its ignorance of the truth, which causes great suffering and generates karma, which then affects the shape of one's next life. (Yes, Alma's second name is that for a reason.)
There are a number of branching denominations of Buddhism, much as there are of Christianity, and while they mostly share certain core tenets such as the Eightfold Path, they vary widely in ideals and practice. The influences I see on DGM mostly come from a Japanese variant called Shingon ("True Words") and its predecessors: Shingon is a descendant of Tibetan Vajrayana, which is in turn sometimes considered to be part of the broader East Asian Mahayana umbrella.
I've talked a little bit about Shingon before, because all the chanted spells used throughout the series follow the pattern of Shingon mantras and Kanda's tattoo is written in Siddhaṃ (theorized to be the predecessor of both modern kana systems, by the way).
Shingon shares its overarching goal with its predecessors: rather than seeking to break the cycle just for one's own self and achieve individual escape from suffering (as in Theravada, for example), one should seek to become an enlightened being — a bodhisattva — and willingly continue to subject oneself to the cycle in order to help those who are struggling and thereby bring the whole world closer to moksha ("liberation") and subsequent/synonymous nirvana one step at a time.
Obviously, reincarnation and transmigration play a massive role in DGM. Let me list just a few of the ways in which this particular concept is a running theme throughout the story:
The Noah fragments being reincarnated into new bodies without also reincarnating the human souls they previously coexisted with;
The Earl's victims having their souls transmigrated in the bodies of their loved ones to rebirth them as Akuma;
The Third Exorcists, also transmigrated into new bodies to bring them back (Helix magic in general, really, including the Atuuda);
Nea's transmigration into Allen (not a rebirth, but an avoidance of death while waiting for a chance at rebirth), as well as Allen's regression to childhood via de-aging and memory loss;
The original Earl (Adam in my theories, fyi, in case I reference that later) deliberately rebirthing himself in smaller pieces for goals as yet unknown;
The Bookmen keeping records of each iteration of the repeating narrative, ever-changing but eternal themselves;
Even fukkin Komlin, lmao, constantly destroyed and improved and remade.
So many others? Soooo many others.
The eureka moment (for me): this chapter is subtitled "Curtain Rise," as in the beginning of a stage play when the curtain goes up. If you'll think all the way back to the very first chapters of the series, you may remember that the Earl's Scenario is meant to bring about curtain fall... on humanity.
Looking at that in the context of samsara, that whole thing suddenly looks very different. Our heroes assumed that the Earl's victory would result in the destruction of the world, the destruction of humanity, but I've never bought that idea from the very start. When the curtains finally close on samsara, the cycle of death and rebirth, humanity will not be "dead" in the tragic sense, but free. Nirvana =/= death. Nirvana is the peace of being one with all, knowing all, loving and being loved by all without the need for suffering. It isn't "heaven" in the Christian sense, but it is an end to suffering, without also being an end to existence.
Tragedy and suffering are the consequences of remaining bound to the cycle. Directly using the energy of them in order to break the cycle creating them, as the Earl claims to be doing with the Akuma, is a very very Vajrayana idea, and fits seamlessly into my existing suppositions as to what the Earl is doing and why. Here, have a relevant quote:
Negative mental factors such as desire, hatred, greed, pride are not rejected as in non-Tantric Buddhism, but are used as part of the path. As noted by French Indologist Madeleine Biardeau, tantric doctrine is "an attempt to place kama, desire, in every meaning of the word, in the service of liberation."
And another, from the Hevajra tantra:
Those things by which evil men are bound, others turn into means and gain thereby release from the bonds of existence. By passion the world is bound, by passion too it is released.
One more, same source:
One knowing the nature of poison may dispel poison with poison.
Bluntly put, I think the (original) Earl was an enlightened soul — a bodhisattva — who voluntarily returned to the cycle via deliberate rebirth into multiple ignorant beings in order to help heal the struggling world of its suffering via bringing about enlightenment viiiaaaa SUFFERING HARDER. Good Plan™?
Here are a few more related meta posts from a few years ago, just so I can find them again when I inevitably decide to delve deeper into this:
Helix magic will be the key to the plot
It's all happened before
Destroyer of Time
2.) I'm so delighted to see Mana as he was when Allen knew him before, genteel and whimsical and delighted with Allen's existence. It's easy to understand why Allen would become so attached to him.
3.) Raws for the "Therefore I write many of them, as if God can see me doing so. / As if He might find me" lines: こうして神さまに見えるように沢山書くんです / 見つけてもらえるように These don’t sit well with me, so I’ll probably change them in the future. The gist is that he’s drawing them in order to draw God’s attention to him.
Raws for "Here I am": 私はここにいる。@togaochi and I concur that he uses watashi here instead of his own preferred boku because he's teaching it to Allen, and means it as a more general "I."
Anyway: hooooo boy, here's some more evidence for the Two Gods theory. And how!
It seems pretty safe to assume he's not calling out to the Order's God, since that god would pretty happily wipe him off the face of the earth. The Noah have called that god "false," though, and expressed their intent and desire to kill it, while still referring to a "God" entity of their own whom they regard as being on their side (or perhaps, they're on its side).
Mana calling out to the Noah god to come find him, without remembering why he wants that, is very interesting. I wonder if and how anyone answered him.
4.) I have a strong hunch that Mana's "secret alphabet" is also related to Siddhaṃ, but that language is written in such a complex way that it's actually impossible for me to be sure without just... learning it. Which! To be clear! I fucking well might. WATCH ME.
5.) This entire scene is so much to me. How furious they both are that the other won't just let themselves be saved/protected. Allen wanted to leave Kanda behind so he and the others would be safe from everything that's hunting him. Kanda wants Allen to stay put so they can save him from what he can't fight alone. All that rage and frustration, because they care.
Quick note: in the first draft we initially posted on Imgur via our Discord server, I had the subject wrong for one of Kanda's lines here, which I caught and fixed. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused!
5.5) ETA: Forgot to mention that I’m fairly sure the beautiful Grecian-style temple they’re hanging out in is referenced from St. Bernard’s Well, again in Edinburgh. Excuse me, “Edinston.”
Thanks to an enterprising anon, we have a much better match for that structure: the Dugald Stewart Monument!
6.) "maybe I'll go sucker-hunting" CARD SHARK ALLEN LIIIIIVES, where's Tyki when you need him (to lose his shirt again)
7.) fjkldjlkagd the turnaround where Allen finally cracks and is like "fine!! you want in?? IN YOU GET. no take-backsies! happy now???" and Kanda's like "yep, here I am" and neither of them have ANY IDEA how to deal with ANY OF IT. Kanda struggling to pull Allen's story out of him without throwing up his hands and quitting. Allen baffled and twice as guarded as before, put off by Kanda's uncharacteristic interest.
So beautiful, it brings a tear to my eye. (Actually, many tears. So... so many tears.)
8.) That apology, which I never thought I'd get, for Allen having seen what Kanda would never have consented to show him. It wasn't his fault, and they both know that, but the fact still remains that it was a violation, and I've always always wished for that to be addressed somehow and HERE IT IS. RIGHT HERE.
I want to tattoo that look on Kanda's face onto my brain.
9.) And then they're FUCKING INTERRUPTED, AGAIN
But Allen's "ask me again when we're done dealing with this" was such a promise of trust that I can't even be that mad, augh.
Onward to the bitter end, I guess!! Haha!!!! · ͜͜ · -
Thank you all so much for reading and following along! I’d like to tip my hat to Kougeki Scans, who love this series too and are helping us spoil the fandom rotten. :P Again, if you have any questions or comments, feel free to either find us on Discord HERE, find me on Discord at Panthaleia#9705, or use the comment box on MangaDex! I’m always happy to geek out with fellow fans. <3
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KH3 Review / Opinions
So some people wanted me to post my thoughts on KH3 and I'm super bored rn so I'm gonna try to do it.
Please keep in mind that this will have spoilers in it, so if you don't want that, don't keep reading this. Without further ado, here are my thoughts:
Pros:
The game included a lot of fun new mechanics, which made attack choices more varied. Some of these were awesome in my opinion - such as Anti Form, the different Keyblade forms and having more new team members in different worlds - and others were...not so great, but I'll get into that.
For the most part, the worlds were very fun to explore. Olympus, while not my favourite world, certainly did have one of the biggest areas to explore. This sometimes meant that I got lost, but it was nice to be able to roam freely without having to wait for sections of the map to load whenever I went into another area. The Kingdom of Corona was such a pretty place to explore and being alongside Rapunzel and Eugene was so fun.
The background music in this game was amazing. I don't tend to pay attention to background music and such, but I noticed that the music fit each area very well. For example, Toy Box had an instrumental version of "You've Got a Friend in Me", which was very fitting and Arendelle had a very upbeat and enchanting song, though hearing it over and over on things like the Kingdom Hearts trailers and adverts did kind of exhaust it for me.
The cutscenes. Oh boy, were there a lot of cutscenes. My dad even came in at one point and asked me why there was more cutscenes than gameplay, and I suppose some people may have found it annoying to beat one round of enemies and then have a 5 minute cutscene, but for someone like me who isn't necessarily the best at games and is more interested in the story, I quite enjoyed it. Plus, unlike other games, I didn't think any of the cutscenes were lazily animated. Each character had unique movements in each scene and it was very charming to see the characters interact with one another.
Being able to play as different characters was nice, even though it was only Aqua and Riku. I heard that they did have other characters sorted with move sets and stuff, so I'm low-key hoping that as a DLC, you'll be able to go back to the worlds and play as different characters. Like imagine Ventus visiting Corona and maybe having a small cutscene of him and Rapunzel being all soft and stuff, hhh.
Some of the characters were treated to some nice development this game. Sora still had his cheerful tone and determination to help his friends, but he was also given a few other traits that I liked. I loved how sarcastic he was at points such as in Arendelle when he falls down the mountain after X amount of falls, which perfectly reflected how I felt at that point in the world. He also showed that his reliance on friends cut into his own self worth a little, and so being alone trying to save everyone must have been confusing to him and certainly very difficult to find the resolve to keep fighting. Another character I thought was treated well was Roxas. I don't know what it was but he really stood out to me. He came at just the right moment to save his friends and had an assertiveness towards Xemnas that was much appreciated. He also ran towards Xion when she started crying, which was very cute. Ienzo was also really cute, my goodness. I didn't care about him when he was an Organisation member but he was such a sweetie in KH3.
The animation in major cutscenes was also gorgeous. The ending cutscene has such pretty animation and lighting, I loved it.
Although it's only a minor detail, I thought having NPCs talk their lines instead of having to read them yourself was a nice subtle touch that was much appreciated.
That Donald upgrade tho. He had a much more proactive role in this game which was awesome. I also felt like his and Sora's interactions and having them insulting each other were a very nice addition.
I don't know if I got lucky or if I'm secretly okay at video games, but I didn't find any bosses to be so difficult that I was stuck on them for hours. I think the most I died was the final fight, where I died 2 or 3 times? But even then, it didn't take me very long to defeat Xehanort and generally throughout the game, even bosses I thought I'd die to didn't kill me, or if they did, it wasn't more than once. Unlike in KH1 where I spent an hour the Wonderland candle thing and in KH2 where I spent two hours on the Demyx boss.
XION'S, LEA'S AND ISA'S OUTFITS AT THE END, OH MY DAYS!!
Don't hurt me but I ship Sora and Kairi and so having them be shown more as lovers than friends was just the fangirl fuel I needed.
Favourite world in Kingdom Hearts 3: probably the Kingdom of Corona for me. I love Tangled and being able to play through that world was amazing. The small interactions between Sora and Rapunzel were also super sweet and pure. I also liked San Fransokyo because it had an original story and I love that movie, too.
Cons:
As much as I loved most of the worlds, there were a few issues with some of them, one of which being some of the stories. Worlds like Arendelle really annoyed me as it didn't really feel like you were part of the story. You just went up and down the mountain observing Elsa. You also didn't get an ally until right at the end of the world's story which was a bit annoying. Arendelle wasn't the only one though. The Kingdom of Corona also felt like you were just a spectator to the story, though to me it didn't feel as intense because only certain cutscenes felt this way (such as the boat scene and the scene where Eugene "dies"). I wish each world had a unique story instead of focusing on the events of their respective movies.
Another issue with the worlds was the exploration. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy exploring, but some weren't as fun as others. I hated the boat mechanic of the Carribbean world and when looking for lucky emblems, I found myself trying to escape fights because I didn't want to go through with them. I didn't hate Monstropolis like a lot of people, but I do see why people would hate it as a lot of the rooms do kind of look the same. And as much as I enjoyed San Fransokyo, I do wish you could explore a bit more. The city was also quite hard to navigate as everything looked the same. Even just opening up the bridge would have given us a bit more to explore.
I literally forgot that the 100 Acre Wood existed until I looked up worlds just now for wiring this post, oof. I did go there but you literally did different versions of the same mini game for about 30 minutes and that's it. I did like the cutscene when he leaves the book though because it foreshadows later events. (He says something about not wanting to lose his friends, I don't remember the exact quote tho.)
While I appreciated having so many different ways to fight, I did find a few things quite annoying. Like I did have a few moments outside of battle where I just wanted to open a chest but I'd accidentally trigger an attraction or form change. Apparently, there was also a button to switch situation commands but I literally found out about that after someone read this review so that’s fun. I remember being so annoyed because I couldn’t use the command I wanted to use but apparently that was just me being stupid. Attractions also weren't always appropriate to the situation, which sometimes meant using an attraction and not really dealing a lot of damage or having difficulty trying to aim and attack enemies. Or maybe I just suck at video games, idk.
Because there were so many different mechanics, I never felt the need to be creative with my battle strategy. I never really went to cook with Remy because I didn't feel the need to and I also never really touched magic unless it was needed, either. I guess I just enjoyed being able to hit A and Y to get through the battles. Yes, I played the Xbox One version, don't kill me (A is X and Y is triangle to you PS4 people).
While a few of the characters were treated well, a lot of them were done pretty dirty in my opinion, probably because of having to bring together ALL of the characters. One of these is the infamous Kairi, who severely suffered from a lack of development, which caused a lot of people to hate her and also meant a lot of people hating the portrayal of Sora and Kairi's relationship (I still love her tho because of how people in the fandom characterise her). Another character is Naminé, and while she's not really my favourite, I can see why people were upset. If you missed a certain cutscene in the Final World, you would only get to see her in the end cutscene. The fact that you could miss a whole cutscene with her is kind of strange. I missed it when I played it. Also, I thought Lea sort of suffered a bit, too. He did have some scenes that showed him off nicely, but people forget that he was also quite weak like Kairi for some reason (but now isn't the time to go into that debate). He had his Keyblade destroyed very easily and struggled to protect Xion. I don't know if he just lost his other weapon but I would have thought he could have at least yeeted them at Xemnas, at the very least to distract him.
I thought the labyrinth section of the Keyblade Graveyard was very...strange. I did appreciate that the fights weren't particularly hard (because I'm not a particularly great gamer imo) but what I did find weird is how everyone except Vanitas was redeemed and how quickly everything happened. Like Luxord and Marluxia suddenly became super chill like "I know we tried to ruin your life, Sora, but you're actually pretty chill". Like...what?? (I know Marluxia is in Union X but I haven't gotten to that yet and in the main games, he wasn't a particularly interesting character to me, so I didn't really care that he became "good".) And while I do appreciate Xehanort getting some sort of redemption, it felt a bit off. He tries to destroy the universe and also murders a bunch of people, but then his bff comes along and says "yo, stop that" and suddenly he's good? Like he doesn't even apologise to everyone or help bring Kairi back or whatever, he just poofs away.
Speaking of things being rushed, I felt like I was getting whiplash nearer the end of the game. One second Aqua is bad, the next she is in the realm of light. Ventus is asleep, Sora suddenly gets the power to wake him up. Terra tries killing his friends and then he comes back. I love my children and I'm glad they're happy but it felt like a lot of it happened so quickly that I couldn't process what was happening.
I feel like the game would have benefitted from a bit more character interaction. I know that's asking a lot from a game with so many characters, but even small things would have helped. Like @chachacharlieco suggested in a recent post, even having the characters coming into Yen Sid's tower for a small interaction could have helped, like Kairi and Riku quickly talking about what had happened, then having Sora come in and complimenting them both on their clothes or whatever. Also, maybe having her give Sora her letters would have made their relationship a bit easier to swallow for people who don't ship them because it did feel somewhat underdeveloped at times.
Why was Kairi sitting alone in the end cutscene? Like I get that she was having a sentimental moment of reflection for what Sora had done and wanting him back, but I feel like even having Riku stand near her and share some understanding eye contact or him putting his hand on her shoulder would have been reassuring. It just felt weird for everyone to be having fun while she seemed to be the only one to remember Sora.
I thought the game would be a nice closing point but it wasn't. I would understand just having the cliffhanger of Sora being gone because not all stories have a happy ending and it still would have closed that chapter and we would assume maybe the next arc would be saving Sora. But also having the whole Luxu reveal and having there be uncertainty about that? If this is setting up the next arc, so be it, but it did feel a bit weird to have the end of a story line but still have so many loose ends and questions.
This isn't to do with the game in particular, but I feel like some things in the trailer should have been left out. Like showing Saïx meeting up with Lea, showing Scala Ad Caelum or showing Sora screaming and being mad in the Keyblade Graveyard. Could you imagine playing the game without knowing about Scala As Caelum and just seeing it for the first time? And could you imagine hearing Sora scream for the first time in game and feeling that raw emotion blind? Plus, I felt like the trailers built up that scene in particular a lot and I remember feeling underwhelmed in that scene because everyone just...died.
Least favourite world in Kingdom Hearts 3: The Carribbean. I wanted out. The pirate life ain't for me.
So I know I sound like I'm one of those people who hated the game, but I really didn't. I enjoyed the game quite a lot actually. I think I mostly enjoyed the cutscenes, which there was a lot of. Being able to see the characters interact with one another and having them be animated and not just standing still made the game feel a lot like a movie for me, which made the cutscenes more fun to watch and pay attention to. I do feel like the game could have done with just a couple extra cutscenes to address some character problems outside of a couple shots of chess and some paopu fruit but I understand that there was a lot to cram in and I'm sure this isn't the last game that we will see all these characters in. I didn't think that everyone would survive Kingdom Hearts and they didn't, but I thought we would lose more characters tbh. Plus this isn't the end - I'm sure Sora will come back.
I can't wait for the next Kingdom Hearts game and the start of a new chapter in the story!! Coming to store in 2158.
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a 2021 update
Ah, so I have forgotten to update in a million years, per usual
~ Random thought section ~
I woke up this morning and read this tweet thread about Alice Wu's director's note for her movie The Half of It. It's streaming on Netflix, and I highly encourage to go watch it, it's probably one of my favorite movies from the past few years. Anyways, she talks about how she produced the film while digesting the heartbreak of a friendship breakup - the whole thread hit me on a different level, but here's a quote that really hit home for me, especially a month from graduation: "The end of the film is each of their beginnings. And for my characters, I can think of no happier ending." We spend a lot of time worrying about the end of things and the uncertainty of things to come. Yet, there was a time where we worried about the exact same things for the very chapter we are now so nervous about leaving.
1. I'm nervous about leaving school and starting the..... rest of my life???
2. I'm nervous that my friends will slowly fade away. I'm nervous that they'll get on with their lives and I'll be slowly still trying to get my bearings, stuck in limbo.
3. I'm nervous that starting adulthood will be difficult because there are no more college orientations, no more awkward freshman dinners, perfect opportunities to meet new friends who are just as nervous as you are.
In writing this out, I felt a sense of deja-vu, like I had written these words before. So I just looked back at some of my posts right before entering college, and lo and behold:
08-18-2016: Today I said goodbye to one of my closer friends, and i realized that without even knowing it, Sunday’s party was the last time I would see some of my closest friends. It’s awful that way, that you don’t even know it’s the last time until it’s passed, and you’re left to pick up the the end of a chapter of a relationship from the scraps of an unexpected and improper farewell.
I feel like I’m in a weird twilight zone between college and high school where my present friends are all beginning to fade away to move on in their lives, and I’m yet to really meet anyone in my class yet, so at the moment,,,,,,there really isn’t anyone.
I wrote this less than a week from moving to Boston, and it's so shocking to me that I also experienced the "unexpected and improper farewell" part in senior year. It's almost the exact same thing that happened in COVID and is continuing to happen. You never know when the last time you might see someone might be, except instead of consolidated over the course of one pre-college summer, it's over the course of more than a year, the time that this pandemic has been going for.
And I hate that I said the "fade away and move on" thing verbatim, literally nearly five years ago. To be honest though, it's true, a lot of them did fade away and move on. But so did I, I wasn't left behind. To some extent, I was the one who did a lot of the moving away. And like many things in life, a couple of us continue to hang around, and maybe our friendships cycled in and out over college, but have come around again after a few years. I guess those are the ones that you know will stick around. The limbo period between chapters is a hard one, and it's nice to know that present-day me isn't the only one who has felt this. It's nice to know that past me met so many incredible people so fast, that I forgot this limbo period happened.
I know this part is getting a little long, but there's just a couple more snippets I want to share:
08-13-2016: I recently read Marina Keegan’s essay The Opposite of Loneliness, and one line resonated with me a lot: We’re so young. It seems silly and almost pretentious for me to think that this party would be so final, and yet it does, even though we have decades upon decades to build and connect or reconnect.
We’re so young, but that doesn’t stop the understanding that we are going to a new chapter in our lives and that it’s going to redefine our relationships. I hope it doesn’t change them too much.
I suppose much of the anxiety of going to college results from having to build my own community from the ground up again.... I tell myself the pieces will fall together and everything will be ok, but it doesn’t stop the increasing anxiety from, well, increasing.
I loved this collection of essays, if you haven't read it, I recommend you do. In moving around for so many years, I haven't been able to keep a lot of books in my possession, but I kept this one because that essay really hit home for me, and continues to, no matter what part of life I'm currently experiencing.
I think moving to college did change my relationships. But change is not a bad thing - your childhood friendships, the few of them that survive, end up strengthening and growing into adult friendships. And in the end, isn't that better than not changing at all? I'm hoping that a few of my college friendships will do that too - we'll go from college friends to family friends, and my kids will call them "Aunt" and "Uncle" and they'll grow up watching their parents talk for hours in the front yard before finally getting in the car and leaving for home.
08-13-2016: But hey, this is part of what I signed up for, I knew I wasn’t going to have much of an initial safety net, but I’m sure I’ll survive. We, as humans, always find a way to adapt right?
I think I survived and adapted. Not in the way I saw things going, but we can never really fully predict things, can we? One day, I'll learn to give myself a safety net for the next chapter, I'm sure. Today's not that day though.
Going back to her director's note, there was one more thing that just struck an emotional chord for me:
Fun fact, Alice Wu actually went to MIT for a bit before transferring to Stanford, and then she became a software engineer at Microsoft! I relate a little too much to her. Maybe one day I too will dump coding for my art form. But for now, in this above example, I relate far too much. I worked on my album, Imperfect, a little too obsessively this past winter while trying to digest the throes of heartbreak from one of my own friendships that ended. I still don't know if there was an ending for that friendship. I think I've spent a lot of time trying to put off the end, like a TV series that just keeps adding more and more seasons. Regardless of whether it needs to end or not (which I have not decided and will continue not to do so), I spent a lot of time thinking about who I was before and after that friendship, and I've concluded that a lot of who I am now, what my life looks like now is a result of that friendship. I'll give you a hint: I really like who I am now, compared to who I was before, and it showed me a lot of parts of life and friendship that I never expected would happen. That friendship was (is?) one of the most beautiful things that has happened to me in my life.
Let's finish off this reflective post with a quote from Khalil Gibran, that's kinda related to that point about how transformative the past can be, and how we're far better off in future chapters of our lives because of it.
When you part from your friend, you grieve not;
For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain.
Again, if you haven't read his collection of poems, you should absolutely 100% drop whatever you're doing right now and do so! Wow, I really just assigned an entire reading list in this post.
I hope in making this movie, Alice found peace. I would hesitate to say that I found peace when making my album. I wrote a lot of songs about the heartbreak I felt from that whole experience. But the last song I wrote, "Best Friends," ends the whole thing on a positive note, that at the end of the day, I remember how my friends (past and present) literally saved my life and how things are looking a little better, and whatever happens, I hope my best friends will be there waiting for me, whoever they end up being.
- OK I PROMISE I DIDN'T SET OUT TO BE 100% SO EMO -
But yeah, I haven't really been doing much otherwise? I guess just tryna stay alive, I've been cooking a lot and cooking a lot of good good food, I did apply to an MBA program, I got my COVID vaccine (second shot this week!), I am excited to announce I am publishing a paper in my MEng lab, which is a really big accomplishment imo, I am thriving in my (1) econ class that I kept, even though I didn't realize we had readings assigned like for the past month, I went to try pastries from this Turkish bakery, I biked, probably, 15 miles over the past month, I've read at least 4 or 5 books this year so far, and am hoping to knock another one out today. Currently dying because trying to finish my thesis in like . a week, which is looking a little challenging, but I'm sure it'll happen!!!??
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