#Their alternian counterparts are still in the works-

[canisbeasts-ooc]

I realize I should actually use this blog to talk more about the critters we got-

Anyway, Beforus Ancestor thoughts, they don’t have names as of right now, sooo. S for Sphinx’s ancestor and R for Respit’s.

S was originally an avid lover and collector of beasts, and it eventually morphed into the sanctuary he runs under Her Altruistic Affirmation (though a bit further removed from her direct command). He tries his best to stay out of the limelight but is quite the supporter for the beforus culling system, even having his own cullee, one the public very rarely sees. R was originally one of his first employees and managers of the sanctuary, specializing in the diet of beasts and their habitats, the flora to S’s fauna. Such a difference in caste, however, may lead to quite a difference in lifespan. And someone with power and a desire? What will they do but abuse it to further their goals? R’s body begins to age and deteriorate over time, something S tries his hardest to prevent. How much of someone can you replace before they are not the same? How can someone so accustomed to the cycle of life and death try their hardest to prevent it?

R always was S’s favorite specimen.

[thewertsearch]

Familial Determinism

Or: let's make wild, uninformed guesses about the troll Ancestors, based solely on the lives of their descendants!

As a bearer of the lowest blood on the hemospectrum, Aradia’s ancestor was probably as poor as she is. She may have been an archeologist like her descendant, assuming the field existed in her era, but I'm much more interested in her potential necromancy.

On the instruction of your ANCESTORS, you have recovered MYSTERIOUS TECHNOLOGY from the ruins, and convinced a friend to adapt it into a GAME THAT WILL BRING ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF YOUR CIVILIZATION.

See, due to her bloodline, Granny Megido is the most likely ancestor to be behind the Voices. She's the only one who can claim a direct relationship to Aradia, and I think she was probably still around in the modern era - as a ghost, of course - guiding her young protege, as she worked to trigger the apocalypse.

What's your story, Granny Meg? How did a lowblood medium discover the secrets of Sgrub, centuries before it arrived? How much did you know back then - and how much influence do you still have, even now?

If Alternia's past is anything like its present - and it certainly seems to be - then I can't see Tavros's ancestor surviving there for long. If he survived to adulthood, then it was probably as a peaceful nomad, or perhaps some sort of ranger.

Either way, I don't think he'd involve himself with other trolls, instead preferring to spend time with his planet's wildlife. Basically, I'm picturing Snow White with a mohawk.

Sollux’s ancestor is undoubtedly still a techhead. I know it's centuries in the past, but this is proto-Sollux we're talking about. He'd invent technology if he had to.

Actually, that might have been his role. He could have been one of Alternia's first engineers, leveraging his Sgrub foreknowledge to contribute to Alternia's technological advancement.

Congratulations, Sollux Senior - you helped turn a nation of pirates into a space empire.

Karkat's an interesting one. In a more primitive society - ie, one without Imperial Drones - it might have been easier for him to hide his blood color.

...actually, he might not even have Karkat's blood color. It's possible that Karkat's candy red mutation is unique to him, and the other Vantas has yellow-green blood, like his Trollian position implies he should. That would result in an ancestor with a very different social position to Karkat, and the two could be substantially different as a result.

Nepeta’s current lifestyle would translate perfectly to a primitive Alternia. Her ancestor could easily still live in a cave – and since shipping is probably her calling, too, I'm picturing her as an accomplished matchmaker.

Kanaya’s situation is rather unique. Jadebloods are rare, and inextricably linked to the Mother Grub, so her ancestor has some of the strongest ties to her counterpart.

We're actually aware of an ancient Mother Grub, who may have been alive in the time of the ancestors - which hints at a relationship between Kanaya's ancestor and the next troll on our list.

That would be Terezi's ancestor, whose symbol adorns the Doomsday Scale. This device was probably a collaboration between the Pyrope and Maryam ancestors. Its purpose is unknown, but the Gate symbol is proof that someone had Sgrub foreknowledge. Curious.

Anyway, aside from this side hustle, Pyrope was probably a legislacerator. I wonder if the Alternian legal system was as broken then as it is now?

Equius... well, I don't really know, actually. He certainly feels like the kind of guy who’d model himself off his ancestor, so he was probably a pro-hemospectrum horse enthusiast.

Gamzee’s ancestor could have gone one of two ways. If Sopor Slime existed back in early Alternia, he might have been as docile as his descendant used to be. If it didn’t, he was probably the exact kind of bloodthirsty monster that Gamzee is currently regressing into.

I know which option I'm putting my money on, and it's the one that would make Gamzee proud of his 'Subjugglator' ancestors. Can you guess which?

Eridan’s ancestor is the Orphaner, which makes me think he has a similar role as a slayer of lusi. My best guess is that he killed the custodians of adult trolls.

Feferi is an odd case, because her ancestor would probably be an extremely famous historical empress. Fuchsia blood is so rare that Feferi is literally the only modern troll who has it, so I wouldn't be surprised if her ancestor was revered in her time.

What did you do to Alternia, Pexies? Did you help make it what it is, or - like your descendant - did you try to make it better?

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

God I had the shittest brain blast, absolute monster of ideas, and something that can help us define the trolls because of shitty clone genetics.

First, do the dancestors food into the ultimate self due to how troll genetics work? If so who is the dominate or does it form into someone a balance of the two? Like Karkat (angry and passionate)/ Kankri (knowledable and verbose) combine into the Sufferer or someone close to that?

Second, is Mituna’s brain damage the reason why for Sollux’s dullaity motif, specifically his psiionic troll bipolar brain? If so does that mean Skaia make each and every dancestor the opposite in terms of character development? Meenah’s a bitch so fef is kind? Kurloz’s belief where ignored so Gamzee is both oblivious (pre-supor) and visibly fantatical (post supor)? It seems like with Mituna and Sollux it’s more Sollux need to learn to deal with his disorder which Mituna couldn’t because his friends couldn’t/didn’t want to help him

Finally, from each pair of dancestors being opposites of what their character needs to become yet at the same time lacks, can we figure out their sgrub quest? Meenah needed to learn how to become empress and not such a huge glubbing bitch( which she failed) and Feferi, if left alone, becomes the empress, a direct result of no one challenging her on her ideal of kindness and compassion towards the lowbloods (another reason for nepeta to become so important in her life). The vantas’s seem destined for revolution it’s just that the coin flip of Alternia and Beforus determines if they are successful or not.

Last thing I want to add what the fuck does troll fanfiction mean because who exactly is writing it, because it’s kinda shit ngl. The beforans? Alternians? One of the Sekrets? Piexes?

Just going in order again:

The dancestors are wholly separate individuals from the Alternian trolls, and are therefore not a part of each Alternian trolls' ultimate selfhood. There is theoretically an ultimate Cronus and ultimate Eridan, and these are 100% discrete from each other with zero overlap. The Alternian ancestors (aka signless, disciple, etc.) are full-on just the Dancestors placed in different circumstances, who therefore grew up to be different people. Kankri always had it in him to become the Signless, he just failed to do so in his original session.

Skaia didn't "make" anyone do anything. Each person is their own individual with their own individual struggles, flaws, and arc. The A1 trolls often mirror their A2 counterparts, in Watsonian terms, because of genetic resemblance and similar cultural positions, and, in Doylist terms, because it makes solid narrative sense to have them serve as foils for their descendants, which necessarily requires them to be similar, with key opposite traits or circumstances. If there's anyone to blame here, it's the author for wanting to employ literary devices like foils and irony.

Moreover, I think you're missing many details about the trolls - for example, Gamzee has always been a staunch believer in his faith, Kurloz's belief is also something his friends are aware of, and Feferi has always been a kind of a casteist jackass (I wouldn't necessarily call her "kind" toward the lowbloods when it's clear that a Beforus under her rule still very much had casteism, royalty, and oppressed the lowbloods). It's a bit hard to discuss these things if we aren't on the same page.

At the end of the day, for any character who doesn't outright say what their SBURB/SGRUB quest was, we can only speculate. There's no way to know "for sure," and, in fact, no indication that Hussie even necessarily came up with any, as that entire part of the story was truncated because such details were unnecessary: it can be assumed every troll had a personal quest, since that's how the game works, and it can be assumed that they all basically failed said quest to varying degrees, because their comprehensive failures are what spur on much of the plot. No other details are necessary, and as such, were neither written nor alluded to (and Hussie outright says that this is the case for their entry artifacts). It's fun to speculate, but in terms of discussing the canon, there's nothing there to discuss.

I also have no idea what you're referring to re: troll fanfiction. Meulin canonically writes RPF about her friends, Hussie has referred to Mindfang's diary as being an explicit riff on overly flowery, sexual fanfiction, and has also in-universe called Doc Scratch's recounting of the ancestors' lives that. IDK what else you might be thinking of.

[satanic-saint]

Rating: Explicit Archive Warning: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Category: M/M Fandom: Homestuck Relationship: Jake English/Dirk Strider Characters: Dirk Strider, Jake English, Jade Harley, Dave Strider, Rose Lalonde, Roxy Lalonde, Calliope (Homestuck), Caliborn (Homestuck) Additional Tags: Alternate Universe, AU, Hurt/Comfort toxic to healthy relationship, Miscarriage, Trans Dirk Strider, Gender Identity, Mental Health Issues, S##cide Attempt, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm, Violence Pre-Relationship, Fluff, Sm#t, Shameless Sm#t, Healing, Recovery, Mental Institutions, Dissociation, OSDD, Dirk Strider has OSDD, Age Regression/De-Aging, Alternate Universe - Age Changes, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Boxing & Fisticuffs, Fist Fights, Autism, More than half the homestuck characters are on the spectrum

Notes: Hello!! This is my first Homestuck fic! I have revised each chapter over and over to try and get these characters right, omg. Occasionally, I'm going to directly reference text from the series as this is just the same people in a different universe. Dirk Strider is one of my favorite characters though and I am going to put him in terrible circumstances so he can breakdown then learn how to build himself back up into the man he always wanted to be. This story will be much more focused on Dirk's emotional processes than Jake's but Jake's feelings are also shared a lot. All the beta and alpha kids are present with their adult counterparts somewhere involved but all kids are still ectobiologically produced. Here's a quick rundown for anyone who wants to understand the AU: This AU is set around Homestuck's canon years. About 200 years prior, Alternian's landed on Earth looking for refuge on a viable planet. Their own was destroyed by a METEOR and all the young trolls living there had to relocate. Humans and Trolls now try to live together, but there's naturally still cultural conflicts.

[rawbeef-enjoyer]

thinking about....... salmonlings.........

two main ideas, ones that evolved naturally and ones that evolved with help from the Alternian liquid crystals after the events of story mode in 3 (maybe there was some shit on the rocket idk i just wanted to design bitches lol)

im gonna reffer to them as

Salmonling - Left, evolved with help

Salmonidling - Right, evolved naturally (and if anyone can think of a better name , feel free to suggest PFFH,)

the little fresh guys, salmonlings! their hair usually has that main fin down the middle, but does not continue down their back. kind of hard to describe how the fins work, maybe I'll illustrate that later if ppl like these guys

their swim form is fucking adorable (scientific term) and they're closer in appearance to a regular, non-spawning salmon. because they had the aid of the Alternian liquid crystals, they can change their ink colour, unlike their natural counterpart. their fins change colour, including from about the forearm down. they have three fingers, a thumb, index, and a large flexible chunk.

tbh i love the way these guys turned out, the silly (i still might make some changes tho, not exactly 100% on these guys)

salmonidlings are much more clumsy than their Alternian counterparts, but also stronger in some ways. like inklings, they can only swim in their own ink, and to counteract the constant onslaught of enemy ink, they can jump pretty damn far in swim form. I'd say they can swim a very short distance in enemy ink, and unless they end up in their own ink on the other side, they're forced into bipedal mode with a bit of damage already done. they have weapons that spread ink as well, I've been thinking of a few (the ladle was a last minute decision, i drew the left arm before the weapon 🫠)

their middle fin is much more pronounced than Salmonlings' are, and it continues down the back. in swim form, it peeks above the ink, but you'd be really lucky to have one swim close to you, their clumsiness mainly comes into play in their bipedal form. switching from swim to biped is much slower than ink/octo/salmonlings,(so they'd tend to swap farther away) but I'd be willing to bet their weapons make them something to be feared (perhaps you could pick them up once they're defeated.....����)

they have two fingers, thumbs and then one chunk, like a mitten. swim form of course, looks closer to a spawning salmon.

fun fact, they don't have ears, those points are extended gills. i dont know if salmon have ears to begin with! (probably in the splatoon universe at least, otherwise omega-3 would have a hell of a hard time selling) [i imagine they have ear holes, like some birds. maybe behind the extended gills?]

---

theres still some stuff im trying to figure out, like wether or not salmonlings can enter water. i imagine if they can, and participated in turf wars or the like, in order to keep it fair they'd have a bursting pack of enemy ink for if they fell in like in some of the Octo Expansion levels. either that or those liquid crystals fucked them all up i guess

i was also thinking about a salmonling specific ability, because salmon have amazing senses of smell, if they're standing still in swim form and press R, they can see everyone through walls, like Thermal Ink. The drawback would be a subpar sub weapon, like a splat bomb but smaller or something.

part of me doesnt like this though, because then every salmonling would be forced to use a small splat bomb. maybe it could be a main ability attachment to headgear? or maybe be its own sub weapon(anyone can use it this way, which I'd been trying to find a workaround for anyways), and while you do it, you can't recharge ink. I'm digging that last one

lots of thoughts. head full. love these. tell me what u think if u want. sorry all the drawings are on sticky notes i only ever really have the willpower to draw at work rn but i do wanna make these guys digital

[classpect-crew]

Personhood and the Ancestor Myths

I think one of the most incredible bits of insight in Homestuck, in terms of it being stories within stories (and, indeed, stories all the way down) is the presentation of the Alternian trolls’ ancestors, compared to their Beforan incarnations. While it’s important to consider the key differences between Alternia and Beforus in the development of their cultures, we also see via characters like Aranea and Meenah that a lot of the actions they take in their adult lives on Alternia fit within their own personalities and wills. These two in particular are unsurprised, even incredibly excited to hear tales of their subjugation and slaughter of fellow trolls. Yet, when compared to what’s told about them in the Ancestor Myths, the teen Beforan trolls don’t really live up to expectations. In fact, some of them—such as Porrim—even seem to actively reject the very universal forces that they’re asked to embody through their Classpect. Compare Porrim to the Dolorosa, and you’ll see what I mean when I say that the Alternian ancestors are treated as archetypes that have been molded and simplified over years of history on Alternia until their very real lives become the subject of an entire mythology. The Beforan teens, meanwhile, are treated with a bit more agency. Sure, many of them are riffs on internet stereotypes, but my point still stands: they’re more real as people than the figures of the Ancestor Myths.

A great deal of Homestuck’s narrative plays with the idea of stories and legends, and the characters within them. We see a great deal of inspiration from the Monomyth, Carl Jung’s work on archetypes, Gnosticism, and beyond. The Ancestor Myths and the meeting of the Beforan trolls provide an excellent commentary on how mythologizing the lives of real people separates us from how we would perceive them if we were their contemporaries. Those who are inspired by the tale of The Sufferer probably don’t realize that he really was insufferable in life, and even if age tempered it somewhat, those aspects of him surely remained throughout his life, just in a different time and cultural context. The Ancestor Myths provide a very direct understanding of their various Classpects at the expense of humanization and relatability. In turn, they become akin to divine figures, quite literally compared to stories from our own human history like that of Jesus Christ. Classpects themselves are part of a series of archetypes, meant to inspire creativity and embody relatable figures: the wise, all knowing Seer, the powerful, volatile Prince, or even the selfless, guarded Knight. It’s impossible for any of our characters to fit these molds perfectly because they’re treated by the narrative more as people than a pantheon.

The very goal of the game itself is to reap the Ultimate Reward and become gods in the creation of a new universe. During their unique quests, each player uncovers legends about themselves and must face some great challenge to prove themselves worthy of the mantle placed on their shoulders. Heir of Breath. Knight of Blood. Prince of Heart. At its core, Homestuck is the origin story of a group of young gods, a pantheon in its infancy. Imagine, though, if the story took place in the new universe from the beginning, and all we saw of these characters was a series of myths and legends akin to the Ancestor Myths. Rose wouldn’t be an analytical, sharp-witted teen girl with a worldview that’s compromised by childhood neglect and addiction. Rather, she would simply be the Seer of Light: she who illuminates paths of great fortune and can be called on in times of uncertainty. Her mythos may not even touch on her tendency toward Void corruption. Aradia, as the Maid of Time, would no doubt keep her role in helping the dead acclimate to whatever afterlife they inhabit, but certainly the path of self-acceptance and the great paradigm shift she needed to reach her full potential would be glossed over, forgotten by Time itself in the land of the living.

In closing, since this is plenty long enough already, we see through Homestuck’s narrative—and extrapolation upon it—that there’s a very real separation between figures of myth and legend and their real-world counterparts. I think it’s vital that we understand this connection when we’re analyzing Classpects, and come to it from an organic and evolving understanding that such archetypes are just the starting framework. While they can be useful for exploring our own relationships to ourselves, to others, and to our own universe, they also shouldn’t be taken as prescriptive titles to base our self-identity from. Rather, you’re free to explore and change within that framework as much as you wish—hell, I’ve deeply identified with at least 40 distinct Classpects over the years—because there is no game that’s going to decide your narrative arc for you. Your story is the one you write for yourself.

[fantroll-purgatory]

I was reading some resources stuff on your blog and got to one post that briefly listed knock off gamzee. Which made me wanted to ask if I'm close to this territory? I have a idea for a purple blood who is super into his religion like gamzee but with more of a seemingly composed and charismatic cult leader vibe? Though it depends on which version. I was thinking of making him a beforus troll and have his alternate counterpart have a title that would suggest he's like a well composed and charismatic cult leader, using his words to inspire fear and control and having others do his dirty work. Meanwhile the beforus version is like that hyper religious kid that preaches at you and shoves his beliefs down your throat that you just tune out most of the time. His alternian descendant however is a blank slate. Everything is still subjective to change.

Ehhh I don’t think being into religion inherently makes a troll a Gamzee knockoff, especially since Friendsim showed us a ton of juggalo trolls who are all pretty into it in their own ways. I like the idea of using the caste as a way to explore one’s relationship to wanting others to follow your own beliefs. If anything, I’d say that that’s the opposite of Gamzee’s deal since his thing is being so involved in his own religion that he completely fails to engage with other people around him. This even holds true when he goes on his murder spree on the meteor; while he’s murdering people and puppeting them around, he’s not really treating them as people or potential converts any more than he was when he was sopored up.

-TR

[shrimpanalysis]

TETRARCH DAMMEK ANALYSIS

Tetrarch Dammek isn't an inherently bad character that most of the fandom paints him out to be. He quite selfish, paranoid, and hedonistic in some aspects from what we have seen but what we see in Hiveswap is most Xefros' portrayal of him and how he perceives Dammek's gestures and Joeys comparison of alternian to human culture which is not a very well rounded representation of character.(yet.) Though it does give us a glimpse into their relationship and his motives.

Bronze bloods like Dammek being the second lowest, would perhaps try to take advantage of their lower caste counterparts.

To dammek, filling a quadrant with a troll of a lower blood caste gives him an ego boost. As evident from Zebruh's route in friendsim, we can see that many lower blood trolls are pursuing red/pale quadrants with those who are above them on the hemospectrum for protection.

The highbloods benefit from having an obedient partner (if they're even into that) who will try to actively sustain the relationship as it benefits them greatly and allows them to have better opportunities. The highbloods manipulate this desperation and use it to force them to be their slaves of sorts.

Dammek takes advantage of the hemospectrum and does use it to rule over his relationship with Xefros, pursuing a pale quadrant with him. A healthy moirallegiance is usually mutually beneficial, but as from what we can infer from Xefros' reiterations of his experiences with Dammek, we can see that it's not really the case here(Dammek taking Xefros' stuff without permission, and also being one of the possible causes of his low self-esteem). There can be toxic moirallegiances as well.

Dammek is a bronze blood. Bronze bloods are more closed off and are untrusting of most relationships. They are also quite materialistic and place their worth on the belongings they own. This is evident when you enter his hive in the game. It looks like a storage unit that has never been sorted out. It is an accurate representation of a basement dweller who has never cleaned out his room in years.

He usually gives Xefros materialistic items while being closed off to him emotionally, trying to distance himself from Xefros by treating him lower than himself.

This possibly can be due to his own inferiority that he feels the need to put people down and his fear of authority (starting of the rebellion in order to be in control of the very system that oppresses people like him).

Bronze bloods also have a knack of communing with animals due to their craving for validation and animals are mostly quite affectionate to people who are nice to them(this can cross over to their own personal interactions as trolls/humans are more complex than animals). Dammek not reciprocating Xefros' kindness might be due to past experiences with quadrants(previous relationships not reciprocated, causes him to try and distance himself emotionally to prevent from getting himself hurt.).

Dammek being a blood player, leads him to be someone who feeds off camaraderie and loyalty from others. Blood players are also known in most instances to be natural leaders as they manage to inspire many through their actions or words which might be why he is a tetrarch. Blood players stick tight to their own beliefs and views- even if they are wrong as they are too prideful to back down from what they have already worked hard to build up. (Him being an organizer of a rebellion)

Dammek seems to have a fear of separation, mostly to Xefros as is evident with how he always takes his stuff and claiming it as his own. Due to the nature of bronze bloods this can represent Dammek not wanting to let go of Xefros and can also provide a incentive for him to engage in conversations or interactions with Dammek to get back his stuff as Dammek does not want to come off as desperate due to his ego and forces Xefros to interact with him first.

Dammek also seems to be quite a paranoid person. With him planting several bugs in Xefros' home to the elaborate security systems he has in place- there are probably people who are after him, or people he thinks are after him.

Dammek's paranoia is also the cause of much tension between him and Xefros' relationship, his controlling behavior over Xefros to make sure he doesn't doesn't go against him(like his ‘tests’)and his reluctance to open up or be more vulnerable around his moirail.

Xefros and Dammek have quite contrasting personalities. Dammek being the more outgoing and crude rebellion leader while Xefros is a more withdrawn, selfless follower. Xefros' personality leads him to be more drawn to guidelines and a need of directions and rules to follow that Dammek is more than willing to provide. Xefros' emotional vulnerability leads Dammek to want to "toughen" him up and Dammek's more emotionally constipated nature leads Xefros to empathise with him.

Here are some extra thoughts that I would like to add. In optimistic duelist's hiveswap video, he mentions that some hiveswap trolls might not act like their aspect as they have not played SGRUB and do not know much about themselves. They are still kids trying to form their own direction and opinions based off on their experiences on the world around them and are all going through some sort of an identity crisis. Whereas in homestuck, the trolls know their aspects and what they are and how they fit into them.

There is also a theory that I've heard that Xefros is looking for a more redder relationship with Dammek while Dammek is looking for a black relationship with Xefros. This can also be as to why Xefros is more empathetic to Dammek while Dammek is more rude and distant to him. I do kind of disagree with this to an extent as Dammek wouldn't have let Xefros join the Grubbels if he didn't at least harbor some form of trust or closeness with him.

All in all, Dammek is a emotionally stunted and socially inept prick. He is constantly fighting against the system that is used to oppress him and conflicts with his controlling nature. I hope he does turn out to be a more three dimensional character in future acts as some fans can easily antagonize him. (There was also a post circulating about awhile back where a writer of hiveswap answers an ask about a Dammek redemption arc and they replied that Dammek will not be redeemed in the game. I am unable to find the source of it so take this with a grain of salt.)

[skeletorific]

How do you think the Beforus Ancestors(Aradia, Tavros, Sollux, Karkat, Nepeta, Kanaya, Terezi, Vriska, Equius, Gamzee, Eridan and Feferi)were like? I love your Alternian Ancestors stuff so far and was curious what you Interpretation of the Beforus ancestors were.

oh HELL yes I am about this.

Aradia Megido, the Tombkeep: I see Aradia as being born a bit later than the others, while the coddling laws are at their strongest. Rather than put up with that, as quickly as she can she removes herself from Beforan society to the very outskirts. Like their Alternian counterparts, Beforan’s are often avoidant of the notion of death. However, in their case, it is not because death is a failure of the dying, but a failure of those around them. It is not seen as a natural cycle but something to be abhorred and feared at all costs. As such, tombs are kept, but they are far away from the rest of civilization and usually talked about in hushed tones. Aradia grows up among these tombs, befriending the local ghosts and considers them her own coddling charge. She guards the tombs from any who get too curious, or more often, from well-meaning government officials looking to tear down monuments to such “nastiness”. What they find instead is an angry little girl with powerful psiionics. She becomes something of a bedtime story for young grubs, even long after her passing. They say she still haunts the halls.

Tavros Nitram, the Menager: In parallel to his obsession with Fiduspawn, I see Beforan Tavros as being some variety of animal handler, using his fully fledged wings (and his bronzeblood bankroll) to travel the world and collect rare and exotic creatures to his own plot of land, to tend to and train. Some know him as a kindly soul, treating all beasts with the utmost love and dedication. He seems like some kind of fairy tale figure, surrounded on all sides by animal companions who he communes with. To others, this is reckless ecosystem mixing, but then, what do scientists know anyways. He prefers the hero title a bit more, as it aligns more with his intentions anyways. Eventually one of his expeditions ends poorly, with him being confined to a wheelchair for the remainder of his life. Outwardly he dies content to let his coddler and his animal friends care for him for the rest of his life, but there’s a restless spirit that he passes down to his descendant.

Sollux Captor, The Dronebee: Completely and utterly unremarkable in every way. Sollux contented himself with working his function as a goldblood. His technical ability was fostered at every turn by a Beforan education system eager to see a lowblood embrace their “natural talents”, but while he made minor waves in the programming circles in which he moved with his often unique approach to coding, to most he was just one worker among thousands, very valuable of course! Every worker is valuable :) But ultimately.....not worthy of notice. Which is fine: that’s how Sollux likes it, and more than that if left him time to pursue more personal projects, such as a little game later known as sgrub. Just because he’s not vocally complaining doesn’t mean he’s not compiling a list. From his perspective, Beforan civilization is a ticking timebomb anyways. Why shouldn’t he be the one to start the countdown?

Karkat Vantas, the Advocate: Look, I know we all love revolutionary Karkat, but I think something we forget is that Karkat was pretty pro-system even as late in the game as Act 6. So, for the Beforan model.....well, every system needs its bootlickers. Karkat Vantas becomes a mouthpiece for some lowblood lobbying groups, acting in vocal support of the Empress’s coddling plan. Its not all love of power: legitimately there is a part of Karkat that tries to see how this is good. Healthy. The needs of his friends are being met, they’re safe, and attended to. Surely all of that is worth a little......infantilization, right? He deals with a lot of criticism from other lowbloods for being a sellout, and though he does his best to cultivate a calm unflappable demeanor so craved by Beforans, I guarantee Beforus has more than a few Grubtube compiliations of Vantas meltdowns that Kankri watches when he needs a good cringe. As he got older he slowly began to question the system he’d spent his whole life building, but ultimately lowbloods don’t live long enough for those kinds of regrets.

Nepeta Leijon, the Believer: What, you think clowns have the monopoly on weird religious communes? Nah. To be fair to Nepeta, her commune’s status as a “cult” is probably more indicative of Beforan prudery than anything else. Her sect, the Righteous Assembly of Withdrawn Renegades (or RAWR for short), is dedicated to the principles of free love and a return to the natural. Within the massive tunnel and cave system in which they live, trolls are free to strip themselves of signifiers like caste and clan and live as the gods intended: covered in dirt, chasing something furry, and flirting furrociously :33. While Nepeta in life insisted there was no leader it was her effect on people that kept them coming back for more, and while the commune purrsisted after her eventual death, ultimately its membership dwindled. Meulin was brought up among some of the last vestiges of it, and some of their old hideouts have been inherited by the Lost Weeaboos.

Kanaya Maryam, The Prioress: Literally, the prior. One of the earliest trolls, widely considered the Matriarch of Trolls in some sense. In her time she revolutionized many of the practices of auxiliatrices, ensuring greater safety for the grubs and greater care for the mother grubs. Many of the norms now in place for jadebloods are in large part due to her own influence. Despite her farreaching influence (and the fact that she left behind a journal of her practices), not much is known about her personal temperament. Quick readers may catch a certain dry sarcasm behind her words, and the especially studious scholar may note slight reference to a few great lovers (and a few great disappearances, *cough* rainbowdrinker *cough*. Her greatest secret is her brief and tumultuous kismesis with Vriska Serket, notorious Mafiosa, but only a very few historians have ever uncovered it. In part, her long shadow may have contributed to her descendant’s eventual anxiety regarding her prescribed role,

Terezi Pyrope, the Gumshoe: Beforan justice is tricky. As opposed to Alternia, there are in fact actual laws in place that aren’t just “don’t fuck with highbloods”, but in many ways its almost more corrupt. More often than not the courts are more concerned with petty infractions than it is with actual injustice, and furthermore, inter-caste tension remains a huge concern that bubbles up in violence. After a few years badgering olives for traffic tickets while watching actual fully fledged crime families get off scott free, well....Terezi had had enough. She took her pursuit of justice into the real world, working as a private detective for hire. She’s notorious for her, erm....quirks, but she’s a fastidious hunter and a careful investigator when she wants to be. She brings em back alive. USU4LLY >:).

Vriska Serket, the Mafiosa/Mapm8ker: Let’s be clear, a lot of Vriska’s society was laid on top of her and it was abuse from which she struggled to free herself. However, what does one do when freed from society, but seek to shake things up a bit. She’s still a thief of Light, make mistake, and she slowly works up the ranks from card shark working the tables to in charge of a small army of foot soldiers, smuggling mindhoney to goldbloods (who have been restricted “for their own good”) and sopor slime to clowns. She’s the flamboyant head of her own criminal empire, with the code of only stealing from those she deems worthy and a reckless approach to life

However, most of that isn’t generally known. And to the outside world, she’s just a simple cartographer, travelling the world to assemble some nice, safe, boring maps. Indeed, when her journal was finally unearthed by her descendant, she couldn’t help but wonder if these exploits were true, or simply a story her ancestor liked to imagine herself into on her off days. Tough to say.

Equius Zahhak, the Showpony: Alright, y’all knew I couldn’t stay away from that one. Equius was something of a puzzle to his descendent when Horuss actually went back through his (meticulously kept) caste records. By all accounts, he was an intelligent, capable, hardworking man. A tinkerer in his off hours, he was a pioneer in the field of robotics, and by all accounts not romantically unsuccessful. And yet, the man never seemed concerned with making a name for himself. Instead, over the course of his long life, you could perpetually find him at the shoulder of someone more powerful and important than he was. Was he....a bodyguard? Trophy husband? Butler? Hard to say, but there he was. Trotted out like the loyal steed he was.

Gamzee Makara, the Borrower: A peculiar legend of clownery regards a strange “hobo looking motherfucker what will wander into your hive and be all and snatching up your most secretous things for the messiah’s wider purposes”. So far as is known, he is not malignant, although its not unknown for a troll to occasionally disappear while running after him to retrieve their stolen items. Even without that possible threat, its usually not worth it to chase after him: the things he takes have a way of ending up back in your hands, one miraculous way or another. Gamzee is an itinerant monk, wandering the countrysides. Some passerby he’ll occasionally offer aid to, or proverbs. Which might be helpful if anyone could decipher what they mean. Ultimately he’s a happy man, if prone to fits of temper and bouts of melancholy. Still, as he notes, he’s got motherfucking friends all over these globes :o) what’s a motherfucker gotta be lonely for?

Eridan Ampora, the Magician: Well.....the Empress doesn’t exactly need Orphaners. As such, the violets are largely left to their own devices. Given they’re often prone to creative endeavours, Eridan found his own outlet. He became renowned as an illusionist, and at one point his shows were capable of drawing large and massive crowds, who would gasp in awe at his tricks and wonder if the violet really did have a trace of magic in his blood. He seemed to like the idea, eventually penning a popular grubling children’s series about a boy with those very abilities (which eventually found its way into the young hands of his descendent). However, celebrity wasn’t necessarily the best mix with Eridan’s temperament. He was prone to some truly disastrous quadrant outings, as well as developing several more addictive habits to drown out the oddly oppressive loneliness that permeated him. These bad habits were only worsened by the worst thing to ever happen to Eridan Ampora: the internet. With access to videos of his performance, most were pretty easily able to spot the trick of it, and hell hath no fury like a cyberbullying teen going after a b list internet celebrity. He took it as a sign to swear off the craft forever and lived the rest of his life on book residuals, alone, drunk, and miserable

Feferi Peixes, Her Highness: Not as much to say about this one, as Feferi is the one we have the most information about. Like it says on the tine, she instituted the coddling system on Beforus. This was widely considered a Bad Idea by those victimized by it, but you couldn’t pay anyone in Feferi’s court to tell her that. The Empress is sweet tempered and excitable, it’d be like telling a child 12 perigree night is cancelled. Perhaps the great irony is that as Feferi gets older, the thing that frustrates her most is that it feels like no one takes her seriously as a person. Merely as a figurehead. Still, she lives her life on Beforus ultimately convinced this is what’s best for the greater good. 

[ckret2]

Tell us your opinions about auspisticism and/or fave ashen pairings. This quadrant deserves more love

Okay this is even longer than my usual long posts so it’s going under a cut.

First, anyone who does it as “it’s a three-way friendship but two of the friends squabble sometimes” is Wrong.

Second, if it’s sexual it’s Wrong.

(WITH THE CAVEAT that in the same way humans can have sexual relationships outside of a romantic relationship—friends with benefits, dedicated no-strings-attached sexual partners, etc.—it makes sense that, yes, trolls also can have sex outside of concupiscent quadrant relationships; but if sex is happening within an auspisticism, it needs to be understood as something that goes AGAINST mainstream Alternian social norms, a way of conducting the relationship that’s somewhat counterculture and not something widely seen, understood, accepted, respected, etc.—in the same way that here & now, sex outside of a committed romantic relationship of some sort, while increasingly accepted, is still to a greater or lesser extent stigmatized in most places. If you DON’T take that perspective and aren’t willing to portray a sexual auspisticism with these “this isn’t the norm, but” nuances, I ain’t interested.)

Third, anyone who portrays auspisticism as a temporary arrangement meant to defuse a bad rivalry is… I feel like, semi-wrong, because from what we’ve seen it CAN be utilized that way, BUT there’s such a constant emphasis among the trolls of filling all four quadrants that I can’t believe that auspisticism is INTENDED to be a temporary arrangement. Auspisticism flings might be frequent and common but if the OBJECTIVE is to have all four quadrants filled then there must be a framework for auspisticism that 1) makes for a sustainable, lifelong relationship, and 2) makes it a relationship one would want to have for life (or else filling the quadrant wouldn’t be desirable), and “bad rivalry that isn’t good enough for a kismesissitude” doesn’t sound like a relationship you’d want to keep for life, like why wouldn’t you want to have an ashen fling long enough to break things off and then get away and never see them again? 

And building off of that, fourth: anyone who does it as “it’s just a watered down kismesissitude/it’s a cockblocked kismesissitude/it’s a kismesissitude that failed and had to be defused—” is not NECESSARILY wrong based on what little we know from canon, but I’m going to have absolutely no interest in it whatsoever. I think “unhappily cockblocked kismessisitude” is the most boring, least interesting way anyone could possibly take auspisticism.

Quadrant pet peeve: when the conciliatory quadrants are portrayed as “weaker” versions of the concupiscent quadrants or “just non-romantic/non-sexual” versions of the concupiscent quadrants. I require that pale and ashen quadrants not merely be “flushed/caliginous withOUT benefits” but explicitly offer something DIFFERENT than their concupiscent equivalents. (Extremely simplified example: the kind of pity that inspires flushed affection makes you want to protect your partner and tear down/fight off their external threats; the kind of pity that inspires pale affection makes you want to try to make your partner a better person and so you focus your work on what’s internal to them rather than on what’s external to them.)

So to explain my view on auspisticism I first have to explain my view on kismesissitude.

First, I tend to headcanon that a kismesis’s goal is, genuinely, to truly defeat their rival, by whatever method is mutually understood between them: killing, capturing, enslaving, whatever. (Like, if two cutthroat businessmen are kismesisses, and one COULD kill the other, he wouldn’t because they’re trying to beat each other in BUSINESS and murder would be way over the top. If he can BANKRUPT the other, though, he’s absolutely going to try and would be an awful kismesis if he didn’t.) What sets a kismesis apart from a lesser rival is one’s inability to actually finally defeat them, no matter how often or how hard they try. But they want to try. Despite whatever redeeming qualities they might see in their kismesis—and seeing SOME redeeming qualities is necessary for a proper caliginous relationship—they don’t think those redeeming qualities could ever outweigh the awful ones, and so they want to tear down the kismesis.

In an auspisticism, they think the redeeming qualities COULD outweigh the awful ones. With enough time, with enough work, with enough effort. In that respect, it’s not the weaker counterpart of the caliginous quadrant so much as it is the darker counterpart of the pale quadrant: one is I pity you for your flaws and I want to see you be better than you are, the other is I hate you for your flaws and I want to see you be better than you are. Both of the primary partners in an auspisticism look at the other and say “you could be so much GREATER than you are, you absolute TOOL.”

Without intervention—because they really genuinely do hate each other—their hatred will boil over into full pitch black caliginous feelings and they’ll see no alternative but to try to destroy each other. But with intervention—with an auspistice between them—instead of tearing each other down, they can help each other grow. There’s room for them to scathingly criticize each other and then, instead of escalating from insults to blows, there’s someone in between them to force them to cool down, back off, and think about the other’s critique, and grow from it. Auspisticism is shounen anime rivalry “I respected him as much as I hated him… but… he also inspired me… to be better… to be stronger… to be worthy of his respect as much as I respect him” but enforced by a referee in a species that’s so hotheaded they’d probably just try to kill each other if the referee wasn’t there.

And so within an auspisticism the pair has a chance to examine their flaws, improve them, and grow as people, each becoming better and better in each other’s eyes—never so much better that they don’t still hate each other more than they like each other, but still markedly improved people. Within a kismesissitude, all they can ever hope to do is try to negate each other and tear each other down—which, if each believes the other DESERVES to be torn down, means that kismesissitude is the right choice, but it prevents either one of them from obtaining growth beyond whatever skills they need to destroy each other, and certainly doesn’t allow for the kind of growth they could have in an auspisticism.

I don’t have any fave ashen pairings because I’ve never seen one written that I liked lmao. For a while I was roleplaying a Helmsman off of a Dualscar and the Helmsman was like “you try to act sympathetic to the lowbloods you think are hot and you say you think some lowbloods are worthy of higher esteem but you’re still a condescending arrogant piece of shit who’s happy to make slaves of the ones you think ‘deserve’ it” and the Dualscar was like “you’re intelligent and talented and insightful but you’re also an out-of-control slovenly asshole because no one’s ever pushed you to be better than that and you’ve never even asked yourself to be better than that” and the Helmsman was like “hm, damn, we’ve both got good points, let’s get an auspistice in here before we try to kill each other” but the RP dissolved before they ever got one—but that’s the closest I ever got to an auspisticism that fit my standards.

[thaumaturtles]

Why do Karkat and Caliborn have so many apparent similarities?

This might seem like an odd question at first, considering Hussie is known for using “prototype concepts” and mixing and matching them to make more refined versions down the line. For instance, his comics on the poorly namedTeam Special Olympics site featured much intentional homophobia, racism, bad dialogue and worse art, and Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff was a later execution of those concepts which made it clearer that he was lampooning bad webcomics. To use an in-universe example, Nepeta was used as the in-universe avatar for audience engagement long before Calliope was a blip on the horizon. So, why am I bothering to ask this? Karkat was obviously just a proto-Caliborn, right? Well, let’s look at the facts:

They both type in gray

They both type in all caps and use the rudest possible terms for things

They both have candy red blood and are in some way related to lime blood (Karkat through mutation and Caliborn through his sister)

But those are all superficial similarities. Let’s go a bit deeper.

They’re both pretty sexist. Much as I love Karkat, he does say some shit that displays a pretty condescending view towards women in canon. You can point out that he was initially meant to parody internet trolls, and that he’s overcompensating due to Alternian culture, and that he Lives In A Society and whatnot, but regardless, he’s pretty sexist during most of Act 5.

They both serve as a “typical” example of what their race is like, and display elements of their culture (or lack thereof, since Caliborn makes it clear that an asocial species would have no need for culture) despite not being very typical themselves. Karkat is a mutantblood who doesn’t even experience the quadrants correctly, and Caliborn never dominated the way he was meant to

They both make friends with Jack Noir, though for entirely different reasons. Karkat makes friends with Jack because his natural inclination is to try to be friends with everyone, no matter the circumstance, while Caliborn forms an uneasy alliance (note that he explicitly calls him not a friend) with Jack because they’re equally bloodthirsty.

They both have an interesting dynamic with one Gamzee Makara. Admittedly, because of his level of importance, nearly everyone has some sort of relationship with Gamzee, but it is interesting that it’s concilliatory on both ends: Karkat pacified Gamzee during Murderstuck while Gamzee took care of Caliborn during his childhood.

Finally, the biggest bit of similarity between them: they’re both terrible at art. This is, honestly, the main reason I made this post. In Homestuck Book 5: Act 5 Act 2 Part 1, Hussie mentions that Karkat is the only character who’s as bad at art as Caliborn, going on to say, quote, “The fact that Karkat and Caliborn have a bit of overlap in personality and typing style may correlate somewhat with their artistic sensibilities as well. Like there's a certain part of the brain that's overactive in both kids, and possibly in all very special boys of their ilk. “

What, exactly, did Hussie mean by this? He’s previously not shied away from describing Caliborn’s brain as broken in some way, and it’s clear that Karkat deals with serious self-loathing issues; could either of those be it? Does this mean Caliborn’s self love isn’t nearly as unflappable as we thought? Is it a mask? Was he just saying Karkat and Caliborn are extremely “left-brained” in the traditional sense? This seems less than likely, to me. While I do think Caliborn is pretty left-brained (the jury’s still out on whether he can draw a CURVE, for the sufferer’s sake), Karkat, much as he fronts like this LOGICAL, NO-BULLSHIT, CUT-TO-THE-CHASE MACHO MAN, is far more in touch with his emotional side than anything else. In all honesty, he doesn’t even strike me as one of the more intellegent Homestuck characters, at least not in the traditional sense. (Please note that saying a character whom I adore very much and identify with heavily isn’t as smart as other HS characters is like pulling teeth for me).

I do wonder what exactly Hussie meant there, though. The word “special” is of course loaded, both within Homestuck and without. I’m sure I needn’t tell you of its perjorative, ableist meaning, considering I brought it up in the second sentence of this post. It’s very likely that Hussie is just making an off-colour joke here. Let’s act as though he isn’t for the sake of exploring this a little more though. Within the comic, the first thing I think of when hearing the word special is Special Stardust, which is of course inextricably linked to cherubim. Gamzee is a frequent partaker, as are Caliborn and Calliope. However, another place it’s used, especially with the context of a “special mind”, is with Jake English. (Caliborn is even the one to tell him this!) Our other major page, Tavros Nitram, is also linked to special stardust and also behaves similarly to Jake, which might lend water to this theory.

So, then, one must ask, what exactly is being said here? it’s suggested that Karkat and Caliborn have... something in common with one another, and furthermore with Jake and Tavros, but what? On this page right here, Caliborn says their shared uniqueness is because they have to work harder than everyone else. This makes sense, as we see Caliborn’s journey to Lordship is a long and arduous one, and we also see Jake and Tavros having to struggle to reach their full potential as Pages. Karkat has to fight his inner demons for a long time, and by the end of the comic it’s clear he still has a long way to go. I doubt that that’s what Hussie meant, considering he specified “a part of the brain that’s overactive,” but I do think it sheds some light on matters. I especially think it might give us a new theory relating to the Knight class: If it’s truly meant to be a counterpart to Page, then maybe that means they ALSO have to work hard to reach their full potential? This might just be a reflection of Karkat’s personal journey though, considering Dave managed to get a handle on Time shit fairly early in the game.

This post was the equivalent of me violently shrugging and stating self-evident facts for a few minutes, but it’s also getting a bit long in the tooth, so I think I’m gonna end it here. I’m open to feedback/counter-theories/telling me BKEW already came up with this theory in 2012

[lettersofsky]

Gamzee Week Day 3 - Unexpected Friendship

@gamzeeweek Fandom: Homestuck Characters: Gamzee Makara, Horuss Zahhak

You didn’t mean to get yourself lost in the bubbles, you really, really hadn’t. You’d tried to keep yourself confined to where Karkat wanted you to be and even then where no one could find you because that Jade sis… didn’t like you much. Really didn’t like you being anywhere near where you could be interacting with any of the human-aliens especially, not that that stopped them from seeking you out, mainly the girlie and didn’t that have the potential to get you into all kinds of trouble cause if it gets found out the blame’ll be laid right at your feet instead a hers.

But that, that’s ok. You could deal with that.

Except for right now when you were driving yourself close to something like panic because you had no idea where you were and fuck you were gonna make Karkat mad at you and you didn’t want that, didn’t mean to, please you’re so so so sosososososo sorry, please don’t go, don’t leave you to that tight tiny place again please -

“Are you alright?” There’s a voice and it snaps you out of your own pan, the whole of you stiffening completely in surprise. “Well, neigh obviously you are neigh alright, such a foalish question of me, my sincerest apologies to you, um…”

You manage to lift your head to look at whoever’s talking to you and it’s, someone you don’t know yeah, the voice hadn’t been familiar but he looks like…

“Oh deer! There is neigh need for tears! Though I hay be imposing that idea upon you, oh what if you do insteed hoof a need for tears and I am marely being insensitive, I am so sorry to you I did neigh mane to invalidate your emotions so - “

“Ya a Zahhak.” It’s all you can croak out but it stops his ramblings.

The troll kneeling before you, he looks tall, thinner than Eq but those horns and those teeth and fuck fuck fuckfuckfuck motherfuck you weren’t prepared to be dealing with these kind of emotions. Ya just gotta focus on the differences, his hair’s so much longer than Eq’s was, got some fluffy bits to it to instead of just being straight and his horns are whole and complete, his teeth perfect and unbroken and instead of shades he’s got this full-on headset thing going on to connect to a full-on bodysuit and fuck what kinda get up did your counterparts’ world have anyways?

“Yes I am insteed,” the guy draws himself up like he’s proud of that fact and fuck lookit that, prideful blues how’d you ever dealt with them before? “Horuss to be exact! But you know my last name so that must mane that you hoof known my Alternian counterpart! It is lovely to meet you!” He falters, seeming to remember the exact circumstances of what was occuring right the motherfuck now. “Though perhaps it would hoof been in better circumstances?”

“Yeah, yeah,” you take as deep a breath as your able to, but motherfuck your chest still feels so motherfuckin tight, that can’t be normal can it? “Better circumstances an all.”

“Hmmm,” the new troll, Horuss, what a motherfuckin name that is, hums at you and, sits down… next to you.

Why?

“Oh? Because I would neigh feel comforstable if I left you in this state out here,” oh you’d said that out loud, motherfuckin fuck. “I know those feelings, they are neigh too pleasant to experience, even worse when on your own.”

Wait, what?

“Whattaya mean?”

“Well,” the deepest shade of blue raises to his cheeks, just like Eq when you… no you can’t think of that right now. “I am well amare of just how awfoal panic attacks can be, and I do neigh wish for you to experience that alone.”

What? That’s not… that’s not how it works…

“Be-because I’m purple?”

“Neigh,” Horuss shakes his head, like it’s the most obvious motherfuckin thing to him even though you don’t motherfuckin get it at all. “It just… it would feel wrong to leave.”

“... I don’t motherfuckin get it,” there may be a growl in your voice and it might just from your confusion but it’d still be enough to get you dismissed outta hand back on the ship, you wait for the motherfucker to send you away, to get up and leave you after you made that sound but he motherfuckin doesn’t. “Whattaya gettin outta this?”

“Neighthing at all.” He sounds, so motherfuckin surprised by that but you don’t get it because everything’s always about what a motherfucker can get out of something, always, always always always that’s just the way things worked, that’s how Alternia, that’s how life worked you don’t get this.

There’s a hand on your cheek and you freeze, breath you hadn’t realized as frantic stilling in a gasp as you stare at white-filled eyes behind shaded goggles.

“Hay, it is ok. Neigh need to get so worked up. Just take your time, breath, I will neigh leave.”

… BUT IT’S NOT SAFE TO HAVE HIM HERE. NOT WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE MOTHERFUCK HE WANTS FROM YOU IN EXCHANGE FOR THIS MOTHERFUCKIN MOST MIRACULOUS KINDNESS, YOU CAN’T BELIEVE IN KINDNESS FOR KINDNESS’ SAKE ANYMORE, IT DOESN’T EXIST IT NEVER DID.

But… he doesn’t leave and you’re just so, motherfuckin tired. You don’t have anything in you to move, nothing to move away… all ya can be doing is leaning into this stranger with the same last name as the friend you murdered and trust that he ain’t just gonna up and tear your throat out when ya ain’t expecting it.

...

Not that you wouldn’t deserve it if he did.

Horuss immediately started to steamroll conversation once Gamzee calmed down enough to, which Gamzee, social doormat he is, just allowed and welcomed.

[nightshadehoney]

On Karako Pierot

Time for more Hiveswap theories! Months ago I made this post, in which I theorized, among other things, that the Mysterious Purpleblood troll was actually a disguise of Fiamet, a limeblood. While the new Friendsim confirms there’s probably something going on with Karako Pierot and he’s not just a joke, it confirms my theory is incorrect: he has a different name and we see his blood.   But it’s given me a lot to think about; the following is a bunch of observations, some I saw other make and some I thought up on my own, on the connections between Karako and limebloods, Karako and the probable-mutant limebloods the Vantases, and limebloods and purplebloods in genera. 

We still have no idea what’s up with limebloods; only that they were killed because they had powers that threatened authority. Is it possible limebloods can change their blood color or at least make others think they see a different color? Karako is Mind-bound, which would thematically fit with messing with perception, he also seemingly uses chucklevoodoos at one point which also could cause delusions. There is precedence for a troll unlocking psychic powers more characteristic of a different caste: the Condesce  does it. If limebloods could disguise their blood color to that extent, let alone imitate the powers of other castes, that would certainly be a massive threat to the authority of the hemospectrum, which is one of the pillars of Alternian society.

More under the cut because this got too long:

If the above is true, and limebloods can mimic other blood colors, do the mutant Vantases have remnants of these powers? Yes they do, but what they are mimicking isn’t a type of troll, but a type of alien: a human. Or at least humans mimic them, because Karkat lead the session that was responsible for human existence as well as the person responsible for the trolls interacting with the humans at all. Vriska says at one point that Karkat would “make a good human”, which I think is true. He’s sensitive, cares about people, has no inherent talent for violence, and successfully manages to get a group of trolls to work together towards a common goal despite their varying levels on the hemospectrum. He’s basically a human trying to yell his way through a troll society he is essentially unsuited for. The Sufferer lived his life by human ideals: a society with no hemospectrum, love without quadrants, a parent instead of a lusus. 

The last is one of a few things that Karako and Karkat/Kankri have in common. Karako, like the Sufferer, has a jadeblood “mother” in the form of Bronya. Also, Karako is a similar name to Karkat and Kankri. Could it be a naming tradition of limebloods; Calliope does mention something about them having weird names, but doesn’t’ specify what makes the names weird. Tealbloods seem to mostly have names that start ‘T’ so there is some evidence that certain castes get names that often follow a certain pattern. Alternativley, theres an aspect of naming grubs without a lusus (though Karkat does have a lusus) that makes the names sound similar.

Karako’s reaction to the topic of his lusus is interesting. The most reasonable explanation is that he was too runty to have ever had one and that’s why he’s so sensitive to the seadwellers’ remarks. But, if he’s some limeblood in disguise maybe there weren’t any around to care for him because they were hunted down and killed like their troll counterparts. Maybe he had one and it’s dead. Combining the two theories: maybe limeblood lusii are hunted to produce sopor slime and that’s how his lusus died.

Speaking of lusii. Fiamet’s icon on that prongle preview was Dr. Shrunk from Animal Crossing , presumably because his lusus is an axolotl. But maybe there are other reasons he was chosen as a placeholder image: Dr. Shrunk is a psychologist who also wants to be a comedian. A clown? His role as a psychologist works both with the fact that purplebloods have the ability to get into people’s head and mess with people’s emotions as well as the old and popular fan theory that limebloods have some sort of pacification ability (more on that later).  The use or Dr. Shrunk who is both or is one but wants to be  the other/pretends to be the other suggests some connection between limes and purples. Dr. Shrunk could allude to the idea of one disguised as the other or a duality between the two castes. Duality is a big thing in Homestuck and trying to tackle all of the ways it connects to this topic would make this already too long post way, way too long, but its gonna keep coming up.  

Axolotls are amphibians. Amphibians are characterized by their ability to metamorphose, to live in multiple environments (water and land).  It actually means “both kinds of life” but I’m going to leave it there instead of going down the duality rabbit hole. This would tie into my “limebloods have the ability to change/disguise themselves” theory. But it also makes me wonder if Limebloods could be seadwellers? This is a bit off the topic of Karako, though it is interesting his route is the first time seadwellers are seen. We’ve got one limeblood with an amphibious lusus, (though axolotls don’t really live on land but this one is an alien who breathes fire so who knows) And then we’ve got Karkat with a crab lusus, another creature that can live in the sea or on land, and one that we could reasonably guess was bred from a limeblood lusus given that Karkat is likely a mutant limeblood. So if limebloods are seadwellers, was their disruption to society merely that they were lowblooded seadwellers while the other aquatic castes were at the very top of the spectrum? I have always wondered how there could be the historical animosity between seadwellers and landwellers that Equius claims there is when all sea trolls are without exception higher status than all land trolls, and this could explain that. Or do they have some characteristic that blurs the binary between land and sea trolls? Do they undergo some metamorphosis that other trolls don’t and if so what is it?

Oh and metamorphosis? Axolotl’s don’t do it. They’re neotenous; they never develop lungs or live on land, basically staying in their juvenile stage forever. Karako is small and cute and probably younger than any other character we’ve seen.  His name is a Japanese term for an art motif of Chinese children playing (this is not the confirmed origin tho), he doesn’t talk, he has a little note attached to him so you can give him back to his mommy etc etc. I’m reminded of Calliope and Caliborn. Sburb disrupted their natural growth processes so they are also neotenous and can never achieve physical maturity. Calliope is the only other limeblooded being we’ve seen and Caliborn’s color (in trolls) is a mutation of lime.  

All these observations. I’m making don’t really mean that Karako is a secret limeblood. Pretty much all of it could be explained by there being some sort of relationship between the lime and purple castes. I’ve mentioned the popular theory that lime bloods have sort of special ability for pacification and an extension of that theory is that they have psychic abilities that are the opposite of the chucklevoodoos. In this case, the powers that challenged authority was the ability to nullify the powers of the subjuggulators whose whole role is about enforcing the social structure and the hemospectrum. Lime as the anti-Purple caste makes sense. Sopor slime is possibly related to them in some way (their blood, crushed up grubs, the blood of lime blooded lusii, etc) and it’s implied its use is to protect from chucklevoodoo powers. Gamzee directly eats it to suppress his purpleblood traits and it’s a mutant limeblood who is able to stop his rampage when he quits. When asked if she has the same powers as a limeblood, Calliope replies “maybe”. She’s the other half of Caliborn who is the god of the subjugglators (both of them). She’s the opposing force to him just as troll limebloods are the opposing force to the purplebloods. And the only entity that is able to triumph over Lord English i.e. the Mirthful Messiahs is a version herself (but not any version, its only a potential, hence the maybe). It makes sense that the iteration of troll society overseen by a servant and extension of Lord English is the one that eliminated the limebloods, who share a color with his enemy (sidenote, Caliborn once called lime “harlequin slime”, so there’s kind of a clown connection there) and if limes are indeed the anti-purples it makes their removal from society a huge reason why Alternia is such a deeply unbalanced hellmurder planet.       

[amusedmuralist]

grand has to auspisticise between Tyrian Sparks and the Legislacerators, go

For the first time in a long while, they had an equilibrium. An empire wide understanding that seemed to be holding firm, this time, rather than the immediate necessity of "we'll see where this goes" that had been the first few perigees. It had taken them about a sweep, or two, maybe? But it was here. Grand pottered around the kitchen, revelling in the mood of a long breath out as he experimented once again with making cake. He was better at it than his main-universe counterpart, having seen her die, but he still couldn't do it perfectly. In this relaxed moment, that felt important.

He had a couple of honey pies on hand for his Hive Guest, His Imperial Electrification, his good friend Sparksbrother. Sparks seemed restless, the detailed plans GHB didn't understand growing exponentially every time he had to come over to the counter to put the latest failed batch of cake batter in the bin. It might have been a new toaster. It probably wasn't. Psii had ollied outie on new spaceship plans, so it wasn't that, probably.

Sparks looked up. "Diid you know iit'2 illegal to not have a captaiin or 2hiip awake at all tiimes?"

So it was a ship. GHB blinked. "yes, THOUGH COULD NOT IT IN MOMENT TO PAN CALL."

"Yeah. But regulatiions giive /captaiinth/ regular hours. None are lii2ted for ships, helmthmen, or any other po2tiion on the 2hiip." Sparks made a note in angry red pen in the margins of the schematic. Grand frowned.

"OVERSIGHT SEEMS," he acknowledged, "SIMILAR FROM REGULATIONS ALTERNIAN REMOVED, when first your own self with about similar spoke, BUT AM NOT WITH LAW EACH AND EVERY IN FULLNESS FAMILIAR."

Sparks opened his mouth to speak, slamming it shut again as his eyes flickered to something on his fancy non-handheld palmhusk. "You 2aid my breath ii2 law riight?"

GHB stood straighter. "shorely so," he said.

"Ii'm goiing to go over there and /breathe/ on them," Sparks said, tucking everything away and setting off at once. That was certainly not going to have any repercussions more severe than burnt cake. Grand had to flash step over there and deal with that a moment, because letting his hive burnt down sounded like a bad idea.

It wasn't terribly long before Grand's palmhusk had several messages, marked with increasing levels of importance, from increasingly powerful legislacerators. He hastily 'stepped over there, letting the fact he had a perfectly working transportaliser slip his mind for a moment. Sparks was a decent sort, surely there was some kind of self serving exaggeration going on.

There wasn't. Grand was familiar with the normal state of the legislacerator offices. Clinical, frenetic, and cool. They were one of the three now, frenetically calling to hand precedent, any precedent, that might get this shut down. They were out of luck: he knew for a fact that the Impreial breath was law, well as they did, and knew too that any contrary evidence would have been purged long ago by the previous imperial. Sparks was still talking. He wondered if the messages were right, and he hadn't stopped.

"...no way to run a fleet. II decree here and now, formally and before wiitnesses, that there should be no shiifts longer than 6 hours wiithout an iimperiial overriide, or permiissiions and or wiitnesses to battle siigned and wiitnessed iin triipliicate. Hey, Grand!" Sparks apparently still needed to draw breath, that was promising, though perhaps he'd learnt the seadweller's gills trick from Scullerer and was breathing through those instead. "II thiink you're goiing to need to replace some-" The head legislacerator shook her head momentarily, then resumed thudding it against the desk- "-or maybe most of your law books. Unless they're ready to capiitulate?"

The Legislacerator's second stopped a moment of flurried writing to look up with what seemed surprisingly akin to hatred in her eyes, and the entire room said "No" at about the same moment.

"RIDICULOUS ALL ARE," the Highblood said, and the glares became more shamefaced, Spark's grin growing wider and more boyish. "AND IN THAT YOUR OWN SELF INCLUDE, brother mine." Spark's grin did not abate.

Grand sighed, grinding the heel of his hand against his temple, and reached into his sylladex for his biggest pen. It was in fact a club, carved with a pen at one end, and a florid, curlicued auspistice's symbol on the other. The sign of a meditraitor, a professional, church and law recognised auspistice. The Legislacerators went silent as he pulled out a trestle table and a large book as well. It was time to get legislative all up in this motherfucker.

"SPARKS. can my righteous self ask yours to laws all as made with breath yours in time this retract, TO LESS HALFBAKED MAKE?" GHB waited until he had assent, and wrote that down. A junior legislacerator went to take minutes, and had to deflect knives thrown by their seniors. That was not how this worked. Not at this highest of levels.

"CAN MY RIGHTEOUS SELF, ALL LEGISLACERATORS ON ALTERNIA PRESENT AND NOT SO, your promise have to laws past in session this to in faith good take, AND NOT THEM SUBVERT, but to improve in the spirit made take?" There was a grumbling of dissent that ceased when the very calm highblood inverted his club, ready to swing. This was a time for discussion, but that could only take place when and if certain precepts were agreed to. Eventually, they were.

"then we can to accords come. SHIP LAW GRIEVANCE ON BEGAN, and there will to start." Grand began, leading on to the densest and most comprehensive reform of ship and interplanetry law that ever got all up and done.

[dragimalsdaydreams]

here it is, the payoff of a year’s worth of work! or an on-off year, at least– this was hardly a constant project. also, sorry this is so big! I’d recommend right click>view image to see this better

also this desc is super freakin long, so for anyone interested, the rest of my commentary is under the cut

it kills me that I wasn’t able to finish this for last year’s 4/13– I wanted so badly to dedicate this to Homestuck’s finale, but I grossly underestimated how much time I needed (just a couple weeks before the anniversary, Ashley? really??). despite this, I’m glad I was able to finish this piece without having to worry abt a time crunch

I’ve EASILY devoted more time and effort into this piece than ANY other piece of art in my life (and that includes full muscle/skeletal diagrams I’ve drawn for past Eclypse refs). it’s funny, I actually “started” this piece in 2012, when I first drew the rough sketch of my idea (obviously Alpha kids and Beforan trolls didn’t exist then, so I was planning to do a kinda “pre-game/post-game” symmetry haha LITTLE DID I KNOW). even at that time, I wanted to contribute something special to the HS fandom– something I’d never attempted for any other fandom then or since. however, I could tell my skill wasn’t developed enough to produce a decent piece (nor did I have the motivation to start a monster like this..), so I tucked that sketch away, hoping I’d return to it someday. I still don’t think I’m at a high enough skill level to give this tribute what it truly deserves (colors... are my death...), but I admit I’m oddly proud of this final product? it’s more than I could have accomplished in the past, that’s for sure (it’s so weird to see how much I’ve improved even comparing the basal sketch stages)

(and, as is tradition for me apparently, here are the other tributes I’ve done for past anniversaries: 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)

sorry for sounding a lil’ sappy here (tho I’m sappy every 4/13 lmao), but Homestuck is so incredibly important to me. no other fandom has come CLOSE to what Homestuck has given me in terms of absurd (often sometimes embarrassing) shenanigans, close-knit fan communities, incredible fanworks, and countless other fandom elements. not to say that other media/fandoms haven’t contributed to my life in significant ways, or that other fandoms aren’t as good, but the HS fandom experience was (and is) so…. unique. there are certain events and situations that could only be experienced within Homestuck’s format, and would be difficult– if not impossible– to replicate in other types of media (or even other webcomics). and beyond that, I’ve dedicated such a significant amount of love and attention to this comic that no other fandoms in my life can rly compare

most fandoms fade over time and slip away from interest, but there are those golden few that clamp onto your heart and don’t let go. Homestuck is one of the few fandoms I can say with reasonable confidence I’ll always cherish, and I just want to thank Hussie and all the incredible artists, animators, musicians, programmers, etc. that have directly contributed to the experience. I think I speak for most when I say my feelings abt the end of HS were…. mixed, at best. but even the negative aspects do little to dampen my love for Homestuck as a whole– this story is just too MASSIVE to let one little ending ruin it! not to say the ending (or any of the comic) is beyond criticism, but the criticism doesn’t ruin the last several years of this fandom experience for me. if anything, that finale left me with a sense that this story isn’t truly over– that there are more loose ends to be tied and further plots unraveled. I’m not sure if that should be considered a good thing (once again, mixed feelings), but at least it works in the context of the upcoming game, haha. either way, reading-- and watching and playing-- Homestuck has been an incredible journey thus far, and I eagerly await the future Hiveswap will bring~

past all that SAPPY COMMENTARY, my main goal w/ this piece was to represent every single Homestuck character (as well as a few significant symbols/references in the comic). considering the nature of Homestuck’s ridiculous timeline, however, this is kind of impossible. thus, I gave myself a few rules for who was and wasn’t included:

- no duplicates. considering there are at least 8 versions of everyone, I absolutely needed this rule. there are obviously a few exceptions (such as Calliope/Callie Ohpeee, Caliborn/Lord English, etc.), though I felt I was justified in including their doubles. this rule honestly kills me a little because I REALLY wanted to include certain duplicates like Bro, Mom, and the Ancestors, but I couldn’t b/c of the next rule–

- if I include some of a group, I must include ALL of the group; IE- “symmetric” representation of all characters. if I were to include the Alternian Ancestors, I would feel obligated to include the Beforan Ancestors too, but there aren’t any canon designs for them, so that would be impossible. similarly, if I were to include the Beta (human, non-Dad) guardians, I’d feel the need to include the Alpha guardians too, who honestly felt less like “unique” characters to me than the Beta guardians did compared to their Alpha kid counterparts (though this could just be due to the fact that we were introduced to the Alphas as adults before the Alpha kids themselves). and even if I were to draw all the kid’s duplicate guardians, that would make me feel obligated to do all the troll’s Ancestors which, again, just wouldn’t work. this is also the reason why none of the Denizens were included, b/c we’ve only got a few of their canon designs (tho I’m considering including their underlings in the future, but I’m not 100% sold on the idea b/c, again, not all underlings are known)

- no “poly-characters”. essentially, no sprites. this prolly falls under “no duplicates”, though I personally consider characters like Davepetasprite^2, Jaspersprite, and even Davesprite unique characters in their own right. it’s just that sprites open up a whole new world of 100+ character possibilities, and I had to draw the line somewhere

- represent each character as their “essential” self. I tried to go for versions of each character that gave the "truest” impression of that character, if that makes sense? for example, I drew Terezi blind and Vriska w/ her robo-arm and blind eye b/c I feel these aspects are essential elements of their characters. Aradia, on the other hand, I drew pre-death, even though this doesn’t necessarily match the “timeline” for Terezi and Vriska’s injuries, b/c I feel that pre-death Aradia represents the “essential Aradia”

- keep overall “character themes” similar across the board. this could also be described by a few sub-points such as: “no god tiers,” “no dream selves,” and, “no alchemized outfits,” among others. I thought it would look oddly off-balance if, say, only some trolls were god-tier, or only one set of kids was wearing alchemized outfits rather than their original outfits. ~in general~ this resulted in drawing most characters as they first appeared in the comic, though there were obviously some exceptions. to return to Aradia’s example, I honestly think that godtier Aradia is the MOST “essential” Aradia of all of them, but the need to adhere to the “pre-game” theme of the rest of the beta trolls overrode that rule, so pre-death Aradia works just as well

[enigmaincrimson]

Thinkering... (Homestuck verse)

Still need to work on Evie's Troll on Trollian alter ego... Other than the fact she's been pulling the prank long enough that outlier who prefers to keep to themselves, but pesters people on chat.

I'd imagine they'd notice she frequently changes the colors, handles, and typing quirks she's using for fun and harassment. Admittedly it is a combination of amusement and boredom on her part.

The "Respiteblock" they'd see if they could is a complicated set made using actual troll stuff... In order to make it as authentic looking as possible... I’d suppose it’s counterpart would be some sort of observatory by the seaside that nobody can get close to due to all the Lusii hanging around the place... In all, security is incredibly tight on account of many millennia of intrusion attempts.

Most trolls sort of consider her to be a sort of information broker, offering secret knowledge for those who are brave enough to make the journey and ask the question. I suppose if one were to stick her with a title... Her predecessor would be the Archivist...

Archivist.

The Archivist would be considered quite odd for what might be a highborn troll. All of her aggression that she might have had is put directly into her work... This ever growing horde of knowledge. History, art, secrets... If she felt like it should be kept, she kept it... There... Hidden... Secure. Safe from prying eyes and those that wish to destroy them... a literal dragon’s horde of information.

The Archivist was long lived, even compared to Fushia trolls... With many royal portraits of her and past rulers lined up so neatly on display... Both in part to her seemingly infinite lifespan and the disaster that is Alternian politics. In all though, the whole exchange of predecessor to successor tends to take so long to happen that it actually comes off as both arcane and abrupt.

One day, the Archivist is sending out books to aspiring wrigglers, and then the next morning she’s gone and some wriggler has is living in her place. As such, while Kenous is about the same age as the other trolls playing Sgrub, she’s still very new to the whole... archivist job she’s been handed.

Of course, it makes it double annoying for The Condesce when she comes home to not only find all the trolls dead from the glubbing, but the Archivist has gone missing... along with the entire archive. Not sure if she would have been aware that the Archivist had passed her torch to Kenous though...

Beforus

Not sure what her name would be, but picture a troll lass that is kind of... bookish. Glasses... collects quite a bit of books and memorabilia. More of a manipulator than a fighter... More fun to lead your enemies into traps than to fight them directly...

Although calling her a manipulative book geek that seems to know way too much seems about right.