#The other jc has said that he will support jgy because he is his family. no matter what happened in the past.

[add1ctedt0you]

that fic idea where WWX is sent to a universe where JC isn't paying attention to him/being sad about him because JGY was JC's childhood bestie... effervescent

the many stages of WWX's reaction

YEAH. THE FEELINGS. THE MANY STAGES OF WWX'S REACTIONS INDEED

(sorry I got overboard while thinking how things would play...) it's very long!!

you haven't asked, but imo at the start, wwx is very excited! He is in his old body again! He has his strong golden core back!( Imo he is scarred by being 'the number one cultivation world's enemy'.) So, it's nice having cultivators who admire him! He is happily married with the love of his life, he is an accomplished scientist and a fun teacher! He didn't even kill 2000 people or his shijie! Everything is perfect.

So he goes to visit jc: his shidi isn't mad at him anymore! Why should he be? He didn't have crimes under his belt anymore.

Lotus Pier, the SAME lotus pier as before the massacre (there was a war, wwx knows that. Maybe during the rebuilding jc has found someone with great memory! Nice!), doesn't throw him out. He feels welcomed.

And then he goes to the sect leader (he has to ask before the disciples let him in the throne room. Rude, but he understands, jc loves formality. - lwj is quite confused... Why would sect leader jiang immediately run to welcome them? But wei ying is happy, so he holds back)

And then, they arrive at the throne room... And jc is there, at his rightful place, proud and scowly, and wwx is so HAPPY. He's at home again!

"jiang cheng, I am back!"

"..."

"..."

jc is so confused that stares at him, unimpressed. He doesn't know this wwx, but he has heard how weird he can be. Still, his inventions are amazing and useful and he is lwj's husband, and lwj is important to lxc... He can't be rude, he has to maintain a good relationship with the Lan. "I didn't know that wei-xiansheng has already been at Lotus Pier before, but I am glad to host such honorable guests. I would say to make yourself at home, but you have already done it forgetting formality", he sneers and wwx is confused. What the fuck jc?! Do you want formalities?! I beat your ass so many times, do you want me to bow to you???

Before wwx can say something, jc calls his second in command and Meng Yao arrives. He escorts them, under jc's order, to their guest room.

wwx is so confused that he lets it happen. Then, he asks his husband what the fuck is happening. Why is meng yao here? Isn't he dead? lwj is worried about his husband' deteriorating memory, but he answers. He would do everything for his husband. But then wei ying's face goes white, then red, then purple! Is wei ying sick?????? He needs to find a good healer to help his husband!! So he leaves the room with an excuse.

In the meantime, wwx is fuming! MY killed shijie!!! He killed jzx, shijie, 2000 people, then comes back (how?? Idk. plot. plot), and JC LET HIM AT LOTUS PIER. JC WHAT THE FUCK!! YOU COULDN'T STAND MY SIGHT FOR ONE SECOND, NOW YOU LET MENG YAO IN!! BASTARD.

It's unacceptable! He needs to fix things!!! He has to, if jc doesn't!!! He goes to jc's personal pavilion ('see, meng yao, I know lotus pier! Even better than you!' he mocks MY speech and suggestions about lotus pier's best inns).

When he arrives, - he sneaks really, now lotus pier has an hell of security system, he almost got caught! That never happened to him before! - he sees jc, MY AND jl eating at a low table. All together. Happily.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? JL EVEN YOU! THE BETRAYAL! wwx knows that jl in the other universe forgives him (he is shijie' son, at the end of the day) but jgy's too???? Now???? jgy wasn't stabbed by jl! What right does he have to sit at his side?!?! And jl and wwx's relationship was still fragile, they were still working on trust and shit like that, what's the easy way they talk???? JC STOP PEALING LOTUS SEEDS FOR MY TOO. ONLY JL CAN HAVE THEM.

Unfortunately wwx is caught by the jiang disciples. They brings him to jc and wwx snaps: "jc what the fuck?!?! He killed shijie!!! You should be skinning him alive not feeding him!! Or just whipping him because you are boring. Whatever. But what the fuck?!"

And jc gets mad, but not 'wwx has pissed me off but it will pass'mad or 'I am rightfully even if unfairly mad about shijie and the peacock' bodies 'mad. No, he is 'you are pissing me off and I would kill you without thoughts - but REALLY KILL you'mad.

jl snaps "how dare you talk about my mother like that?! Do you wanna die???"

And jc" mister wei has overstepped his stay and bounds. I'll forget it for the sake of our clans, just this one time. Nonetheless, what happens to meng yao is a jiang family matter"

Lwj arrives and apologizes in wwx's stead. Then lwj drags him out of lotus pier. wwx is confused and angry. What is lwj doing?? He explains to his husband that jgy's the devil! He is bad and mean and a cunning manipulator! He killed wrh! He killed nmj! He killed jgs!

But lwj is even more worried: yes, Meng Yao - who is jgy? - killed wrh, but both jgs and nmj are still alive. Maybe wei ying is tired. Lwj is so worried about his husband's memory.

No one,- lsz, wn, ljy- believes him... And it's just as before, when he was all alone against the world, where no one believes him or in him... The food is tasteless, the world seems again to not have a place for him... His home isn't his home anymore...

But wwx has shit to fix! He needs to help jc and jl to see jgy's real nature! HE NEEDS TO FIX THINGS

And that's the fic:

jc's unmovable love for his family plus jl's good heart plus jgy cunning scheming vs. wwx inability to handle jc's emotions (indifference is unacceptable! How does jc dare to forget wwx?) plus his exaggerated reactions

[leatherbookmark]

I wonder if 15 year old Jin Ling is worried about marriage? Like, Jiang Cheng has his murder coolness to counter the need for that and marrying NHS would be a turn off for everyone, but now he's head of the Jin and in a relatively shakey position...

ooh, thanks for the ask! that's an interesting question!

it definitely has to be said that he doesn't really have an example of a Good married couple around. jgy and qs were kinda close, living harmoniously and treating each other with respect, but uhhh there was the incest. i'm not sure if he remembers jgs and madam jin, but even if he doesn't, even from the stories and rumors you get the idea that they're the opposite of a good relationship you aspire to have. even if he has married cousins, i feel like he doesn't really get along with them, since they all seem proud and arrogant and he hates that.

besides, considering the Times, it's very likely that he doesn't know many girls in general. i'm not sure if mxtx ever mentioned any female juniors or any junior-aged daughters of other sects. i'm assuming they exist (even though it would be hilarious if the new generation was even MORE of a sausage fest than the previous one), but still: if jl doesn't have many friends that are boys, then he definitely doesn't have friends that are girls. he's probably that kind of a teenage boy who suspect girls are like, a separate species of human.

so in this situation, it would totally make sense if he was not the most excited about the idea of marriage! or even arranged dates and betrothal. he seems uncomfortable with public/overt PDA and affection, so he'd probably boil on the spot if someone breached the topic of Finding Him A Nice Lady, lol. it’s not only an embarrassing and unknown territory, but also: he’s going to have one more person living in his house! this already is not good, let alone horrifying things like producing heirs!

but at the same time -- i have’t finished the extras yet, so i don’t know if there’s isn’t more info about the situation in jinlintai later on, but he is the rightful heir, even though he debases himself with helping the commoners. i’m not sure if other jins would want him gone, or if his different approach would warrant them refusing to support/protect him in case of an assassination attempt from the outside. in this situation, and with jc and wwx as his uncles, i’d say he doesn’t have to worry about securing his line’s survival just yet. if his jin family started pressuring him to find someone and he obviously didn’t want to, i think jc and wwx would Do Something About That, maybe. in terms of securing the jin sect’s position, jl seems just like the person to try dealing with other sects on equal, cooperation-based ground, rather than with money or power play -- so he wouldn’t necessarily have to marry a sect’s daughter to hold it over their heads. i’m not good at marriage politics, though, so i’m not sure.

but speaking of jc, and by extension nhs -- now this is interesting! because they should worry about getting married and producing heirs. they’re not getting any younger, nhs in particular with his weak cultivation. jc is a strong cultivator and is still young, fresh and sexy, but i suspect that in society’s eyes that’s not an excuse, and while he did scare off many matchmakers, matchmaking, especially rich sect leaders, is $$$money$$$ so i don’t know how long his peace is going to last. it’s probably not going to happen, but i do think it would be funny if jl had to think about his uncle’s marriage sooner than his own lol;;;

[llycaons]

ep 25 (pt 3): MOM HOLY FUCK

I didn't want to screencap every single thing jyl said during her epic takedown, but I couldn't help myself. I think I missed like, three lines. but it was so thrilling I was back and rewatched the entire scene again. after episodes of watching wwx be disrespected, and knowing his history with myu, and knowing later how important being publicly supported is to him, this scene...wow. take it away, queen

IT BEGINS

oh and there's sect leader yao nosing in to give HIS unwanted opinion. look at her face lmao. and does he only have one set of robes? is he wearing the same thing to the night hunt as to the victory banquet? wow, embarassing. anyway, back to jyl murdering jzx in broad daylight

HE DID!!! AND IT WAS HARD!!

cut to wwx, clearly deeply impacted by this affirmation of their bond

RESPECT MY BROTHER OR SO HELP ME

HE'S WITH US!!! WE'RE HIS FAMILY AND HIS HOME!! AND IF YOU'RE RUDE TIO HIM YOU OFFEND ME AND ALL OF THE JIANGS!!!

and fuck, isn't this kind of acceptance and belonging something wwx has wanted for so long? isn't this one of the things that hurt him so badly to lose, and something he craves when he comes back? having a home, a community, belonging somewhere, having people ready to stick up for him and affirm their connection with each other in no uncertain terms. in the face of cruelty and disrespect, given the ife he's lives, of course that means a lot to him. it means everything, especially now

and madam jin still trying to keep this quiet, be a good girl and move along miss jiang, let the men go about their business and don't interfere. and jyl says absolutely not, this is important to me and I care about my brother and I will have an apology

this isn't something jc could have done for him, for many reasons, and it's one of the reasons that their relationship just doesn't have the same affection or stability as jyl and wwx's does, or lwj and wwx's does postcanon. in fact, I'd argue that jyl and wwx have a much stronger (and definitely healthier and more mutual loving) relationship than jc and wwx. because…idk, jyl was able to love wwx absolutely unconditionally, she wasn't hampered as much by a terrifying mother, a negligent father, and the pressures of leading the sect, and she never let her insecurities or her pain spill over into physical or even emotional attacks. she never made her problems wwx's problems, and she never blamed him for existing and being more liked/more skilled than she was. he definitely wasn't honest with her about everything,' but he was able to be more open and vulnerable with her than he could have been with jc. I can't imagine wwx going to jc to ask tearfully if LP was his fault…and jc would probably say it was. after all, he tried to strangle him about it and holds it over his head DECADES later. I wish jyl had the been the one to survive but ig that would have been a significantly less fraught story

I just think being safe around someone and being able to express your fear and pain and vulnerability is a really important part of having any kind of functional and healthy relationship, and it's really sad that circumstance and personality made that impossible for jc and wwx

omg poor jgy comes in like :) what's wrong, honored guests? and madam jin is such a bitch to him!

THIS WASN'T HIS FAULT. he has committed many crimes but he wasn't to blame for ANY of this. and how could he tell what was going on immediately by coming in? it was a really specific set of events that just went down involving people whose interpersonal dynamics he probably barely knows

you know you're acting like a real piece of shit when sect leader yao has to tell you to calm down

wwx and jyl are not seen as siblings by the rest of the cultivation world, probably because jfm never formally adopted him. (WHY???? bc of myu??), regardless jyl stands firm even in the face of accusations that he's dangerous and will bring trouble. something her mother always said, too. but jyl loves her little brother and she's not about to abandon him like everyone else. and she doesn't not even at the very end, she loved him so much she sacrificed her LIFE for him god I feel ill

a lot of conversation around whether jc and wwx see each other as brothers, which is probably not the case in the book based on some meta posts I've read about it. it's a little hazier here but I def see them as brothers and I'm still really skeeved out by ppl who ship them. there's way too much gray area and oh yeah, they have the same sister

back to jzx being a complete loser. madam jin trying to ger jyl to come along and her deferring politely until madam jin snaps at her son and he YELLS THIS in front of a massive crowd of sect leaders and disciples and then he runs away in shame I'm DYING god he's so fucking funny

and this scene! wwx is so polite to madam jin and she just ignores him! I refuse to believed jyl would have married jzx if he was still shitty to her brother (and/or homophobic) but there is no saving the rest of his family. girl why'd you marry in 😭

but I read a fic once (the simplest step forward or whatever the shit it was called) where jzx was this drunken, crass, homophobic lout and I was DYING because even if jyl had married a guy who was aggressively homophobic to her brother (she wouldn't) THAT'S STILL NOT HIS PERSONALITY AT ALLLL he's an awkward and well-meaning rich kid who extended genuine kindness to his illegitimate half-brother, uses formality to cover his true feelings, personally dug a lotus pond so the girl he liked would be less homesick if they got married, and died trying to prevent his cousin and future brother-in-law from killing each other. he had a shitty phase as a teenager but he's a good dude as an adult! and he does have dad energy, I agree with that one post

uh oh! wwx removing jc's hand from his arm! hopefully this isn't a heavily symbolic gesture the last time they truly see each other as allies

jc getting SO mad here because his pride is injured...wwx being so good at things is never something he'll be able to swallow easily, but he's letting his feelings get in the way of the fact that this makes the jiang clan stronger and if he supports and embraces wwx's abilities...idk, maybe nothing would have changed. but jgy did have a point all those years later. if wwx had stayed with the jiangs, perhaps the jins would invent an excuse to attack. I don't have a ton of faith in the nies and lans to go against them. regardless, he could have responded to this better. those anger issues...

[winepresswrath]

Hello, can I ask something? I’d like to know your opinion on this. I’ve heard it said that WWX is the type to internalize blame, and JC is the opposite. Would you say there are parallels between JC and JGY with their whole “nothing is ever my fault I was pushed into this I have no choice” attitude towards taking responsibility for their messes?

Kind of? I think they’re both pragmatists in ways that ironically sometimes blind them to their available options, but they’re pursuing different goals and have pretty distinct motives so it’s kind of polo balls and oranges. Jin Guangyao is constantly doing stuff he knows his society would condemn him for in the pursuit of survival and personal power. Insofar as he's invested in his sect it's as a means to becoming the person he wants to be- someone who can fulfill his promise to his mother, secure enough power to protect himself and advance his personal agendas, and satisfy some lingering daddy issues.

He's perfectly willing to abandon his sect in disgrace if it keeps him alive and in the game. I have no doubt that he's an extremely competent and effective administrator who advanced the Jin's interests and probably also the common good, but he also kidnaps his own juniors and ties them up on zombie mountain as bait so he can more effectively murder his political enemies. He does things like murdering his own father, (totally deserved but also a massive social taboo) while genuinely wanting Xichen, Qin Su, and to some extent Mingjue's approval and validation. What I’m getting at is that when Jin Guangyao is trying to explain his choices he's not just trying to create an internal image of himself that feels consistent with his own values, he's trying to reconcile the person he feels he has to be with a person these people could not only love but respect and support. That's why he sets himself up for such an own goal with "Rusong had to die." He could have sworn up and down that he would never! He doesn't because he wants Qin Su to agree with him that it was necessary.

Jiang Cheng is not doing any of that. He's in it for his sect and his family, and while he cares tremendously about public opinion his primary concern is pragmatic. He wants to avoid being perceived as an easy mark and he wants to avoid angry mobs aimed and him and his. He's insecure and prideful, but he's not invested in trying to explain or justify himself. When it’s his turn to monologue at the temple he has a lot to say about his feelings, but he’s not asking for other people to understand him; he’s both lashing out in a fairly raw and aimless way and trying to understand both himself and Wei Wuxian ("Why didn’t you tell me? Why can’t I hate you?"). He lets everyone at the temple walk away knowing that Wei Wuxian gave him his core but not how he lost his own core in the first place. He clearly still cares about Wei Wuxian, but he’s not capable of asking for forgiveness or understanding.

Jiang Cheng is also just playing with a different hand than Jin Guangyao from the beginning. The part of the story where he has the least power and the most need to claw his way to a seat at the table is elided in a sentence and presented as pretty straightforwardly heroic

the most laughable one was the Yunmeng Jiang Sect, the people of which either had been killed or had scattered, leaving only Jiang Cheng, who was younger than even Lan XiChen and was still a child born yesterday, who had nobody in his hands but still dared call himself sect leader, holding up the banner of rebellion as he recruited new disciples.

This kind of brings me to- what do we mean by messes? Jin Guangyao isn’t justifying “mess,” he’s justifying murder, which is just killing someone outside the boundaries of the law. As the son of a sex worker, the means Jin Guangyao uses to access power are broadly perceived as illegitimate by both assholes who think he needs to know his place and perfectly nice people who think even if the deck is stacked against you and it’s the only way to advance you shouldn’t murder innocent people for your own benefit. And also you shouldn’t murder people for opposing you politically, or because you wanted a side of poetic justice with your patricide. He is acting transgressively, lying about it, and then explaining himself after the fact.

Jiang Cheng doesn’t have these problems. There’s not a lot of political worldbuilding in CQL or MDZS but it’s pretty clear that as the displaced heir of his clan he had the right to pursue leadership. Arguably, it’s what he owes his murdered family. The violence he uses to achieve that goal is both socially permissible and celebrated. He's also, unlike Jin Guangyao, not all that invested in his personal survival. He gives himself up for Wei Wuxian and tries to trade places with Jin Ling because his own life is not the most important thing to him- it's his sect and his family. He doesn’t have to justify these priorities because they’re pretty in line with general social mores, overinvestment in a sister’s son and the son of a servant aside. Even when he’s doing things I’d argue he believes are wrong, or at least morally complicated (failing to help the Wen) he’s got Mingjue speaking up in his capacity as most righteous dude in the room to say it’s impossible for him to owe a debt to people whose family have wronged his to the extent that the Wens did. His bad behaviour is socially permissible. When he tells Wei Wuxian there’s no choice, he’s not actually trying to get Wei Wuxian to agree that he’s doing the right thing, he’s is trying to convince Wei Wuxian that his cause is futile and he should save himself.

I do think there’s some kind of vicious weasel cycle going around Jiang Cheng’s head where he spends a significant chunk of time unable to decide if various disasters were Wei Wuxian’s fault for betraying them/losing control/acting carelessly out of a lack of affection or his fault for loving and trusting Wei Wuxian enough to put him in a position to do any of those things and then spinning out into “maybe it was all a big misunderstanding somehow no that’s the stupid childish logic that got us here” but frankly Jiang Cheng logic does not deserve to be dignified with a response. If what he was after was evading responsibility he could have simply been blaming one of the many, many other people at fault the whole time. Seriously, he doesn’t have to blame Wei Wuxian to avoid blaming himself when Wen Chao is right there. Out of the many and varied tragedies that have defined Jiang Cheng’s life the mess that is his adult relationship with Wei Wuxian is the one he’s actually at fault in, and since Wei Wuxian is alive and happy that’s actually his best and least tragic problem. I got sidetracked but basically Jin Guangyao is seeking validation from a place of social marginalization and mass murder. Jiang Cheng does all of his atrocities in public and is both incapable of processing trauma in a healthy way and too emotionally damaged to seek personal validation from the people he loves. One of them is playing polo and the other one is eating an orange. They are not the same although a round object is involved in both cases.

[fortune-maiden]

Jun Wu, Jiang Cheng, Qi Wrong :-)

One of these names is not like the others xD

Send me 3 characters to rank in order from fave to least fave

Fave: Jiang Cheng. I may not really focus on him much in my fics or seek out JC fic, but I love this angry grape! He's a relatable character, and he's really well written. I love his relationships with Jin Ling, WWX, JYL, LWJ, JGY etc. Between his home life and Sunshot, he is all sorts of messed up but he's trying his best. I also love his cql-only relationship with Wen Qing. It never had a chance and it is so delightfully tragic T_T

(and also I've been in ChengQing mood lately so maybe I should seek out some fics)

Middle: Jun Wu. I was indifferent to him for most of the novel until he suddenly became relevant (and it must be said I wasn't suspicious of him much, partly because I wasn't paying attention to him, but partly because I always want familial-like relationships to be genuine... so I felt that betrayal too) But I think he's a great foil to Xie Lian and knowing his backstory paints everything in the Heavenly Court in a new light. Give me all the stories of him subtly manipulating everything and everyone. Or at least being well aware of what's happening and either looking the other way or giving things a gentle nudge off a cliff.

(Give me Jun Wu using SQX as a proxy for Xie Lian in how nicely you can break a justice-loving idealist)

(Give me Jun Wu 'helping' Shi Wudu stumble on the solution he needs to save SQX)

(Give me Jun Wu guiding He Xuan along in his revenge leading to haste and misunderstandings)

(Although I still don't get why JW wanted to get rid of SWD... SWD really feels like the only one other than Ling Wen who would have supported him, especially if SQX was used against him)

Jun Wu has a lot of good fic potential :)

Least Fave: Qi Rong Wrong :P I don't hate him or anything, but I don't seem to like him as much as other people... I'm just kind of indifferent towards him ^^"

[crossdressingdeath]

I feel people forget we have canonical examples of people adopted into the family and that going better for the adoptee. People who argue that there's no difference between Wei Wuxian's position in the cultivation world compared to others forget that we have both Wen Yuan and Meng Yao for comparison. You can clearly see how the family treats them affects their standing.

Wei Wuxian was a young master (and yes that's relatively privileged) but he's clearly not considered part of the Jiang family and their equal. And that directly affects how he's treated and what he can get away with. People keep talking about how rude he is but others have been ruder and got away with it. Everyone knows what Madam Yu thinks of him. Everyone also knows what position he holds relative to Jiang Cheng, it's why it's so easy to make allegations about him to Jiang Cheng about insubordination. It's why it was easy for Jin Jixun to openly disparage/yell at him. He may be a desciple but he's got no actual authority or place in the Jiang sect, he's closer in postion to Su She then even someone like Jin Zixun (albiet a much more favored then Su She). It's sort of like the mc of Knives Out.

Compare this to Jin Guangyao, who even with the snub of his name, was still adopted into the family proper. His treatment at the Jins left much to be desired but he's still got all the privileges of rank. He's considered Jin Zixuan's brother and he's in line to inherit. And while the Jins are like that, clearly people from the outside treat him as a part of the Jin. See how Jiang Cheng treats him compared to how others treat Wei Wuxian, despite both having common backgrounds.

Finally we have Lan Shizui. He's adopted into the Lan clan proper, he's given the ribbon of the main family, and the Lans treat him as one of them. He's never ever treated as anything other then as a young master of Lan. He's given all the privileges of his rank. Even when Jc snipes at lan jingyi or Shizui, he's still wary of going over the top and incurring the Lans wrath. This is directly down to how Lans treat Shizui and how rumour proof they are. Note that his circumstances sort of mirror Wei Wuxian's (Lan Wangji just turns up with a child) and yet there's not horrible stuff said about him. People argue that Madam Yu makes sense with her yelling about what Wei Wuxian would have meant to Jiang Cheng's position, but Lan Wangji turns up with a child and his reputation doesn't suffer. And Jin Guangyao is adopted into the clan and no one really thinks he's above Jin Zixuan. It's her own insistence of constantly believing in the rumours and being part of the gossip that probably makes them worse. If she really cared about her son, she should have just laughed. But she doesn't, because she's not doing it out of care or political savvy, she's just doing it because she wants to berate Jiang Fengmian.

Yeah, that’s a good point. JGY isn’t fully respected, there are clearly people who still see him as just the bastard son of a prostitute, but the name ���Jin” does buy him a lot of respect. Even before he becomes sect leader (or even the immediate heir) people at least won’t insult him to his face; even when JC is talking about how he’ll never amount to anything, he says it to WWX, not to JGY’s face. And yeah, no one seems to think that JGY outranks JZX despite actually being JGS’s son, because... he doesn’t. That’s not how it works. And LSZ very clearly has the full support of the Lan sect; as you say, we see JC sniping at them (picking a fight with teenagers, that’s real mature) but he doesn’t dare go too far for fear of annoying the Lans. He... might actually be the heir after LWJ, it’s unclear (he’s certainly head disciple and was adopted into the main clan, but we don’t know who adopted him; if it wasn’t one of the Twin Jades he’s likely not near the top of the succession line), but either way he’s clearly well respected and liked within the sect. So like... clearly most of the time there isn’t concern about the succession when someone is adopted into the sect. Also, I seem to recall getting someone telling me once that an adopted child wouldn’t be above a blood child in the line of succession regardless of age, at least not automatically.

Honestly? I wouldn’t be surprised if the only reason there was gossip about WWX being JFM’s bastard was because YZY kept shouting about it. I mean, the one person who really brings up anything related to it is JZX, who is the son of YZY’s best friend. I don’t think JFM taking in his best friends’ orphaned son and giving that son the rank of head disciple when he turned out to be super talented was actually suspicious on its own. I mean, LWJ brings a completely unknown kid back from the Burial Mounds after fighting his sect’s elders to defend WWX and no one says shit about it! But if JFM’s wife is constantly shrieking about WWX being the result of an affair between him and CSSR... Well, that would draw some attention.

[guqin-and-flute]

But like picture it. Yaoli is like such a good balance. Memg Yao being like, guess I gotta save my reckless brother-in-law and with a couple of good points and Yanli the Wens join the family. Meng Yao thinks that is the end of it but then WWX has ADOPTED apparently and now a timy A-Yuan is following his Xiao-Shushu around and Meng Yao is gone. No one is touching this kid. Yanli agrees. Meanwhile there is JC happily and confusedly stumbling around WQ in some parody of courting. 1/2

So of course Meng Yao and JC, without WWX present, probs qhen they qre both working on paperwork, have this quiet convo about talking and telling someone you are interested. And even if they don't get together WQ and JC become friends. And Yanli is so happy to have the house full of noise and her hubby supporting her loved ones so she wants him to have his. Que her writing some letters to NHS and LWJ (killing two birds at once with this given WWX pining) 2/3

So with some mild scheming, a few dinners, bonding over fans, and Yanli getting two new friends the triogets the 3zun together and theybtalk through their issues before it gets too murdery. Memg Yao is touched, Xichen is thrilled his best friends are gettinf along, Mingjue admits he may have missed Meng Yao, and NHS is thrilled because he always liked Meng Yao and is happy to be able to spend time with him (whoch he did when possible anyway) without shouty big brother fallout. 3/3  

Anon, you have the BEST galaxy brain, holy FUCK. I LOVE the image of JC awkwardly doing bird mating dances around a very confused Wen Qing.

Oh oh OH. Maybe in THIS one, the way to save the Wen remnants is that when WWX comes busting out of Qiongqi way and A-Yao is the one that shows up while Yanli and JC and LWJ stay behind and calm down the Sect Leaders and speak on behalf of their less than diplomatic shixiong. WWX looks down at him with a zombified WN and hoard of scared Wens and says, “HELP.” And since JGY has absolutely no reason to cover for his father and what he’s been doing to the Wen’s anymore and he likes Wuxian and it would make his wife very happy, he says, “I have an idea.”

And there may be a bit of a panic getting everyone back to Lotus Pier because they know the Jin’s are gonna be pissed about the jail break and JGY looks over at JC and says, “You have to marry Wen Qing,” and just about everyone spits out their various drinks and says, “wHaT,” at every conceivable volume but he’s right and if they are under the Jiang’s protection, JGS has to play nice because the Sects are so close. JC is Very Worried about what this means for his image as a Sect Leader, but both his siblings and brother-in-law convince him that it’s okay because a lot of the Sect Leaders suck a lot, actually? Wen ‘I would do anything for the people I love’ Qing says “Fine. When’s the wedding?” and they are married, of course for Very Political And Not Personal Reasons At All, This Is Strictly Business And For The Good of Not Perpetuating Genocide, Thank You Very Much. 

And that’s how you end up with 2 Marriages of Convenience Growing Into Love in 1 AU, thanks for coming to my tutorial.

Wuxian gets right on making Wen Ning all conscious again in the comfort of his own home.

JGY going straight up from ‘why is this child following me’ to ‘this child...is now my nephew. I’ve never had a nephew before. And if anyone looks askance at said nephew...they are going to die very horribly :) ‘ and WQ is like ‘...okay buddy. Thanks?’ and WWX is like ‘HELL YEAH, YOU GET ME’. 

3zun’s making nice on each other just makes it all the more impossible for Jin Guangshan to pull any bullshit on the Jiang Clan for oopsie-absorbing the last of the Wen’s because when you have a very pleasantly and pointedly smiling Lan Xichen and a no-nonsense glaring Nie Mingjue when you bring it up at the next Cultivation Conference, it sort of makes it obvious that 3 of the 4 Big Clans are not going to go along with your fuckery anymore, my guy.

Yanli very deliberately building a supportive social network around her husband and socializing him to actually accept love and care is the best bedtime story, TELL IT AGAIN.

[a-very-fond-farewell]

The forbidden crack! Untamed prompts: 18/?

University AU: “Negative Space”

[ok so, self projection is a bitch, but I am petty to myself on a regular basis so it’s ok]

[title is from the Japanese concept “ma”, which Wikipedia describes as:

“a Japanese word which can be roughly translated as ‘gap’, ‘space’, ‘pause’ or ‘the space between two structural parts.’ In traditional Japanese arts and culture, ma is more carefully defined as the suggestion of an interval. It is best described as a consciousness of a sense of place, with the ‘intervals’ suggested often being more than simple gaps, instead focusing on the intention of a negative space in an art piece.

Ma is not necessarily an art concept created by compositional elements, such as the literal existence of a negative space. Instead, the intention is often to create the perception of an interval in the viewer experiencing the elements forming an art piece, making maless reliant on the existence of a gap, and more closely related to the perceived experience of a gap.

Ma has also been described as ‘an emptiness full of possibilities, like a promise yet to be fulfilled’, and as ‘the silence between the notes which make the music’.”

Fun fact: “ma” also means “but” in Italian, which is what usually follows whatever intrusive thought may plague my mind. Eg: “I may be useless now, BUT just you wait until I get some dopamine to get me through this shitty times.”]

*

Wei Ying never asked for much in his life. He’s content with cleaning classrooms and toilets and nobody can beat him at wiping the marble floors if he works hard enough. Granny Wen, his supervisor, is slightly impressed with his ability to make the wood shine for ages to come. His nephew Jin Ling sometimes comes to check on him when he’s done with senior classes or cram school in the evening, and together they sit down and listen to whatever his older friends in music production came up with during the day. Jiang Cheng occasionally would ask him to keep him company while he grades papers and they bitch about ZiXuan and his inability to dote on their sister. The cafeteria ladies are always nice to him and they give him extra congee because they worry for his questionable consumption of spice products.

He’s fine, really.

So why can’t he stop wandering over to the science building these days? Looking for a clean board to use, for an equation to finally solve? Even if in the end he just takes the chalk in hand and simply stares down at the inky surface in front of him, unable to write. His mind working on a software too advanced for the hardware that constitutes his brain.

Thirteen years. It has been already thirteen years and yet it feels like yesterday, or like it never happened at all. Like it has yet to be. Time blindness is a bitch to deal with, yet dyscalculia and ADHD makes a joke out of you when you love math on a visceral level... but you burned too bright too fast and now you function on no data and with an even shittier signal. Having a burnout at 23 should have taught him humility instead of pride, but Wei Ying has always worked out of spite and certain habits are difficult to forget.

Couldn’t put the number in the right order, switching digits left and right since he was young? Fine. Numbers were concepts anyway, entire civilizations working their magic without even knowing what “zero” stood for. A brain steaming with a million ideas per second? Good. New connections brimming with ideas he could use to better the world.

It worked fine until he let himself down. Until he became a useless empty lighter, a wet match tossed out, carbon monoxide in the air.

Dropped out before finishing his very ambitious, highly dangerous for his psyche, thesis project. Aunt Yu never forgave him for that, not after paying for his advanced classes, not after trusting Uncle Jiang and supporting him despite his many flaws. What good is being first of your class every year, poster child of a teaching system done right, graduating bachelor at 21, if you can’t finish your master at 23 and get your PhD at 25 and start teaching by 27 and drive yourself insane in the process?

Wei Ying dropped out and didn’t finish his master, didn’t enroll in the teaching program, and let everyone down. His Uncle and Aunt looking down on him, whether out of pity or shame. Jiang Cheng may have been the one leaving him behind, but he used to be the one saying “you should have tried harder”. YanLi worrying over him when she should have focused on her career first. Jin Ling growing up with stories of his uncle “not being worth the money put into his education”, taught to not disappoint and make his family proud. The Jin side, that is.

And now the kid comes crawling in defeat to him instead of Jiang Cheng after bombing a test in high school. And they chat of what he would like to do and how much he likes sports and how much he despises the idea of getting a scholarship for that and being called stupid or something by his classmates. And he cries when he thinks Wei Ying cannot see him as he leaves the campus late at night.

Wei Ying didn’t even want to solve that impossible theorem he fixated on in his early twenties. His thesis project was inconsequential in the great scheme of things and his professor only wanted him to be his one trick pony in the end. No. Wei Ying wanted to teach math in elementary school, hell... even in kindergarten. He wanted to change the approach to the subject. Because numbers cannot be taught like language is and there are many ways to teach how to sum up digits and divide quantities and there are no rules on how to make sense of space either.

But how can he teach when even time eludes his senses?

Something that nobody can define, but certainly most perceive as linear... but not him. Not since his brain fried up in his attempt to function like a normal human being.

After thirteen years nothing has changed.

Until one day he hears something else aside from his usual intrusive thoughts and burdensome memories. A melody so quiet he almost mistakes it for the wind, coming from the music building.

He walks slowly, night surrounding him like the embrace of a friend as he makes his way to the traditional musical instruments room. The one where Jin Ling’s friends meet sometimes as they wait for the younger boy to join them. Wei Ying holds his breath as he spies through the gap of the door left ajar, neon light slicing his face like moonbeams as he peeks in and recognizes Jin Ling’s friends and another figure sitting on the ground, guqin on their knees.

But before he can lean in and breathe in the vibrant sounds all around, the door opens and music theory Professor Lan finds Wei Ying clutching his mop for dear life.

They said the man could see colors within the notes, that he despises language outside of his class or office and that only his brother, the history of art TA, could convince him to talk every now and then.

If numbers were created to measure space, Wei Ying firmly believed music had been invented to make sense of time and count its seconds in rhythm and notes, pauses and beats. Yet, time seems to stretch to a stop as the janitor focuses all of his attention on professor Lan’s stern face and his heart quickens its pace.

Wei Ying takes a rushed breath and dives right in with a weird sense of hope pumping in his veins. A small, timid voice whispering that life is not made to be atoned, but to move on and grow.

One step at a time.

“I’m Wei Ying, Professor Lan. May I listen while you play?”

Yes, maybe it will be enough just to let time flow at its pace.

Whatever rhythm that may be.

*

[some hcs down below]

WWX does not magically solve the math theorem. he may or may not help kids figure out how to use numbers on the long run tho. no, he will still work as a janitor and there’s nothing wrong with that.

yes, LWJ is autistic and stimms and finds WWX’s honesty soothing. yes, you can add your hcs on the matter. he has synesthesia, but more on the grapheme-color side of the deal than anything else and he sees certain letters/numbers/notes in different colors. people think he can see colors in music, but they misunderstood and thought he could recognize different hues while listening to music instead of reading it.

JC has grown since his uni years and doesn’t resent WWX anymore. he teaches astrophysics as a TA and doesn’t pressure his brother to pick his studies up anymore. WWX has mixed feelings about this: he feels he’s a lost cause, to the point not even his brother spurs him to best himself anymore, but he is grateful for the patience anyway.

LXC is the official LWJ translator of the campus along with their cousins SiZhui and JinGyi. he bonds with WWX and JC over how tired they are, seldom staring at flies roaming above them in the cafeteria bc none of them can even move. he lives on caffeine and regrets, but he’s getting better as he develops a love for his plant babies and tries to not let them die on a daily basis.

Wen Ning and Wen Qing are little overachievers and adrenaline junkies, hence their competitive streak on their way to their third master degree just for funsies. they scare people with how driven they are, but the juniors love them.

NMJ is the one to go to if you need to get away with murder, but JGY will actually be the one helping you dispose of the body. the fact that they both work in criminal law is somewhat both reassuring and disquieting. they hate each other and yet cannot stop hang out, they are close to 40 and need the rivalry to keep going anyway. nothing beats a good nemesis. not even sex. maybe.

NHS has failed his entrance exam to become a nurse too many times to count, but he is determined to see the end of it. even if he could potentially work in the family business, but he doesn’t know anything about managing an empire of bricks and he doesn’t care. if NMJ could run away, well, so can he.

MianMian is Wei Ying’s bestie and has the biggest crush on JGY’s sister A-Su the kindergarten teacher, but since they are childhood besties she doesn’t know how to approach her. she is Jin Ling’s idol and a certified boxer and refers to herself as a useless bisexual. Wei Ying boxes with her sometimes, she always win.

YanLi is an equestrian mum, but in the best way possible: she coaches children for shows and teaches them horses should be loved and feared equally and that if you want to shoot arrows from a running horse you should always, ALWAYS let go of the stirrups the moment the beast gets too unhinged to ride. JC fears her, WWX is only glad she didn’t train police dogs for a living.

ZiXuan actually loves his wife, but WWX and JC question his career choices and the fact that he’s a retired lawyer spending his family fortune while he’s a stay-at-home dad and does all the housework. WWX and JC believe he should give their sister a better life and work his ass off to deserve her, but he does make amazing rice cakes and keeps up with Jin Ling’s studies and is very supportive of his dreams.

A-Qing and Song Lan are siblings and sometimes bring JC food from the campus cafeteria where they both work at, while Xiao XingChen and his carer Xue Yang work with LXC for a project on accessibility for visually impaired visitors of the local museum. JC and LXC work to make Song Lan and Xiao XingChen fall for each other, but the youngsters are too protective to let them play matchmaker so easily.

[this is all for now. please, if you want, add your own headcanons!]

[sleepymarmot]

Re-liveblog: eps. 4 & 10

Here's something I've been planning to do for a while -- rereading the liveblog of The Untamed I wrote a couple of months ago and looking at my own initial reactions to Jin Guangyao's storyline with new eyes. Returning to old liveblogs is always fun, but particularly when the perspective on something changes so much by the end of the story!

Of course, this turned into a monstrosity with word count in thousands that sat in my drafts for about a month, and involved rewatching most of the scenes the liveblog mentioned, and some that it didn't. Please be warned: this series of posts is not meant to be a comprehensive analysis, and will jump from one point to another or highlight only the things I have changed my mind about, or haven’t talked on this blog before. It is going to include some very personal interpretations and opinions, sometimes possibly (or definitely, in the case of this very post) unpopular or negative. I am here to reflect on my own experience of watching the show almost as much as to write meta about the show itself.

[All re-liveblog posts]

[ep 4]

is this shy illegitimate son the same person who summoned WWX in the first episode, or are they two entirely unrelated bastards? I don’t think the ages match up…

Oh, so that's what I was thinking during Meng Yao's introduction scene: trying to figure out whether he was the same person as Mo Xuanyu or not. That's funny.

[negativity ahead!]

Of course, I was also admiring Xichen's elegant way of Using His Privilege For Good, but I thought that was self-explanatory enough not to put in the liveblog. It didn’t occur to me this scene could be interpreted as a sect leader openly hitting on a disadvantaged youth, or that such an interpretation would be popular, especially in a literal and positive way as opposed to a dark or subversive headcanon. So even if this is ever confirmed to be an intended message of the scene, I’d just say “I recognize the council has made a decision...” and continue to disregard it. Kind of incredible how it manages to squick me in at least five ways -- and xiayo is one of my main ships in this fandom! And not only squick -- in my eyes, sexualizing LXC’s intentions in this scene not only adds something that I don’t like, but actively detracts from the textual, surface meaning and narrative function of LXC’s actions (establishing LXC as a Model Authority Figure who masterfully manipulates the social power dynamics not for self-interest, but for justice, kindness, and peaceful conflict resolution; see also the following scene with the Wens). And from the other side, I think Meng Yao is shocked and impressed specifically because someone like LXC would do this for someone like him without an ulterior motive; I suspect that if he saw this as LXC making an excuse to touch someone attractive, he would only be turned off: a sect leader who can’t keep his hands to himself is nothing new and nothing good from the point of view of JGS’s illegitimate child.

But if this brief brushing of hands holds any in-universe significance in addition to a possible foreshadowing of this relationship’s future importance -- I think I just finally realized what it must be! This interaction is an adaptation of the following scene from the book (which, to be fair, happens when MY and LXC already know each other, not during a first meeting):

Meng Yao had been a famous joke for a certain period of time, which was why a few recognized him. Likely thinking that the son of a prostitute perhaps also carried some unclean things with him, the cultivators didn’t drink from the cups that he had presented with both hands. Instead, they put the cups to the side and even took out white handkerchiefs. As though it felt too uncomfortable, they repeatedly wiped the fingers that they’d touched the teacup with, either intentionally or not. Nie MingJue wasn’t someone mindful to such things. Wei WuXian, though, caught sight of this through the corners of his eyes. Meng Yao acted as if he didn’t see anything, his smile unfaltering as he continued to pass around tea.

As Lan XiChen accepted his cup, he looked up at him and smiled, “Thank you.”

He drank a sip of the tea immediately afterward. Only then did he continue to converse with Nie MingJue. A few cultivators began to feel uneasy as they saw the scene.

(Chapter 48)

So CQL!Meng Yao’s eyebrows twitch in pleased surprise because the sect leader not only personally approached to verbally support him, but took something directly from his hands, not even trying to avoid him or flinching at skin contact. As if it didn’t even occur to the majestic Zewu-jun to think of Meng Yao as dirty or disgusting.

I don’t know if this is an intended interpretation either, because I don’t remember anyone specifically avoiding physical contact with MY in the show, and on the contrary, there were examples of both friendly (from Huaisang) and unfriendly (from the commander) touch. But I certainly prefer it to the other interpretation, and ignoring the interaction altogether seems a bit intellectually dishonest.

[/negativity]

On another note, much is said about JGY’s performativity, but check out LXC’s! Someone’s being bullied in his classroom? Not on his watch! Time to descend from his pedestal like truth coming out of her well, Very Pointedly and at length explain how this person Has His Official And Personal Approval And Is Very Welcome Here, then take the gift from him personally instead of letting a disciple do that. Note how in the following scene, he also personally accepts the gift from Wen Qing as a peacemaking gesture. I love how LXC’s character establishing event is about defusing not one but two uncomfortable situations in a row. Of the two brothers, all social skills went to him...

I have no comment on the goodbye scene. Just sadness.

Oh wait, after rewatching the entire show and coming back to the post, I do have something to say. This episode is the only time I can say with all certainty that all of Meng Yao’s words and reactions are fully sincere. After this point in the timeline, it will never happen again. :(

It’s a shame that the gifs I’ve seen of this scene end with the iconic stopped bow, because the final shots are also great! As soon as MY turns away, his face becomes clouded again, and seconds after the Sect Leader himself held his arms and assured they were peers, he felt the need to bow and lower his eyes as some unnamed disciples walked by. And the bitter look he sends after them tells the viewer how much he is aware of falling from the dreamland where a nobleman would compliment him like three times within three minutes, back to the regular life where it is better not to be noticed at all. Meanwhile, Xichen looks him in the back like “I want it to grow strong and healthy, I want to tell my friends and neighbors about it”.

[ep 10]

Alright, when 10 minutes ago I thought “Meng Yao, sweetie, kill that clown”, this is not what I had in mind

SOMEBODY GIVE MENG YAO A HUG (after some emergency medical care) HE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG IN HIS LIFE. Can Xichen adopt him now?

Ah, the joys of the first viewing. 

At this point, I was thinking of both Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue exclusively as of father figures for Meng Yao. For LXC I think I slowly started to notice the romantic tension later but made a complete flip to the romantic interpretation only during the "late light talks... no sign of curse on his body" conversation. For NMJ it was during the head flashback. And as much as I like these pairings, it does feel like a loss that their existence displaces the very different pseudo-family dynamic. I think a story in which NMJ, LXC, WRH and JGS are all openly presented as competing father figures would be interesting; has anyone written that?

On rewatch, I was outraged by all of the blatant manipulation that I bought completely on the first viewing. MY is very good at playing a wounded bird -- especially when he's literally wounded. I had wondered why he just limped away without treating it, but now it's obvious he is using Stoic Suffering to invoke pity and admiration. Just like, a few minutes earlier, he showed NMJ that he was ready to be struck down, and it saved his life. He tells NHS with a sad but brave face “I won't be able to take care of you anymore” and on first viewing it worked on me just as he intended -- I thought “Poor boy, so trained to serve, he puts his duty to others above his own feelings even in this situation”. Ha...

And NMJ is only helping his case. He had the chance to explain everything and share the truth of MY's actions. And in the novel, he does take this chance, retelling the incident to Xichen (who chooses to turn a blind eye). Instead, NMJ basically confirms MY’s narrative: by hiding the reason for the exile, he makes it seem like there was no respectable reason at all. NMJ, all by himself, makes himself look like an irrational tyrant, and MY like a victim of an arbitrariness. And he does it in front of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, no less -- an heir to a major clan and his brother! By trying not to discuss internal problems with outsiders, he achieves an opposite effect. Luckily for him, JC and WWX don't give a shit... But imagine how different the plot would be if they had this information from the start?

What I still don't understand is -- what was Meng Yao’s plan in this episode? Who was he working for? Who was his accomplice, whose feet we saw in the later flasback -- surely not Xue Yang himself, he’s supposed to be under arrest! Was he working with the Jin secretly already? (I don’t think so: in a later scene, JGS asks him about this incident, seemingly ignorant.) Or with the Wen (I don't remember -- did Xue Yang go back to the Wen afterwards)? Or just with Xue Yang directly, setting him completely free just on the promise of future cooperation? This seems most plausible -- but to risk and lose everything over such an uncertain gamble doesn’t make MY look very smart.

I have some other things to say about the events of this episode, but they’ll be in the post about the flashbacks in episode 41.

[victortortor]

NMJ would be Sephy but not in the "I'm the son of Jenova" sense and more like "I was experimented with Jenova cells and it droves me mad and now she can control me à la demonic cultivation style". JGY would be president Shinra (not Rufus because he get a redemption arc). Meaning Shinra senior wouldn't die right away and would be there until the end? Jin Ling is Rufus? But who would be JC? Tifa? But he's childhood friend with WWX not MXY. And that wouldn't work with the uncle thing with JL/Rufus.

NHS would be Tifa (because of the whole “maybe he told MXY to summon WWX)? But would that work with NMJ/Sephy? Or NMJ is Barret? And Wen Ning is Sephy for the same reason that I said for NMJ. But who is Hojo? Wouldn’t that better be JGY? The Wen sect is Shinra? But who get the redemption arc? Wen Qing? Because it was her brother and she was not happy and wanted to save him so she worked with Avalanche to save the world? Where does that put the rest of GusuLan and Lanling Jin? NHS is Marlene. If NHS is Marlene then can JC really be Tifa (he knows about the MXY/WWX situation? Somehow?)? Lan Xichen would be Tseng: he got in Shinra to protect his little brother and no one know they’re brothers? But then the Venerated Triad doesn’t exist. And who would be Angeal and Genesis? Aaah! That’s a complicated AU and too many characters get shoved to the side because there’s not enough equivalent! But that’s an interesting AU!

Yeah, this is pretty messy, lol. The supporting cast of FFVII and its related media is way too big. I think the only way to conceivably make it work is to simply edit characters out – keeping the cast small would probably work better and be easier to write (not that i’m going to write it).

But the moment you said “à la demonic cultivation style” I was like…. oh no….. and I immediately went off on a tangent. Here’s what I got:

LWJ asks MXY about WWX, since MXY used to SOLDIER and he’s just like “…. You knew him?” And LWJ says yeah, I was dating him. MXY is just quiet for a moment, and he says, “He killed my best friend and his family, so I killed him. I don’t want to talk about it.”

Tifa’s going to be Jiang Yanli. When LWJ joins AVALANCHE MXY points at her like “oh yeah this is another of Wei Wuxian’s victims, he killed her entire fanily” and she just nods and LWJ is like … wait… isn’t that the girl Wei Wuxian always said “like a great big sister”

The reason why Tifa recruited Cloud was bc they were childhood friends, and in this AU it’s just because he acts too much like WWX, and his story that he killed WWX after his friends family was killed, but won’t talk about who his friend was is just… really weird, because WWX was her brother’s best friend, and he killed her family.

And then they finally get the name of the place where MXY killed WWX, and he’s like “yeah… it was at Yunmeng…” and JYL is just like “???!!” because she does NOT recall MXY being there and something is up

And then during their travels, they cross by Mo Village and in the beginning MXY is like lol look it’s named after me, but he spends 30 minutes there and Madam Mo just kicks him out screaming “you good for nothing that ran away from home to be random army grunt don’t ever come back!!!”

MXY: lol they mustve gotten me mixed up with someone else? i was never in the army and i dont have any living family, my friend’s family basically raised me. At some point he also admits: one of the reasons why i don’t want to talk about it… is because at some reason i forgot the name of my bff, and im really ashamed of myself over it. my memory is really fuzzy sometimes

At this point, both LWJ and JYL are like “HMMMM”

anyway basically, Wei Wuxian should be Zack AND Sephiroth, because he deserves to be a supervillain . He got corrupted by demonic energy and went batshit crazy in Yunmeng. MXY the random army cadet was the one who snapped him out of it by injuring him real bad (not dead yet!). canon thing with both of them being taken in for experiments for a few years; MXY becoming a clone and WWX dying to save him, but as a result of the experiments he literally can’t die, and remnants of his personality split into his various failed clones, most of it going to MXY and his crazy demonic cultivation personality going to straight to the clone that’s being built in the Northern Yiling Burial Mounds… 

Other than that, some party members I’d want is Wen Qing and Wen Ning, the remains of the glorious Wen Kingdom (Wutai) that perished during the last war with Jin Corp! Wen Qing’s the healer, Wen Ning is a berserker. Wen Yuan is Marlene. Nie Huaisang, who joined because Jin Corp was responsible for the death of his big bro. He has an airship, just because. I think the president should still be Jin Guangshan so he can die, but Rufus can be Jin Zixuan. Lil’ Apple as Nanaki because rescuing LWJ from being breeded with a “supposedly mythical, but probably just a normal donkey” and just… running out of Koi Tower…. with a donkey…. oh turns out he can wield materia wtf

[crossdressingdeath]

While I'm not entirely of mind that JC saw WWX as below him for their entire relationship bc he also thought he was 'not like other servants' and constantly being 1st place, it really doesn't look good on JC that his heartwarming moment of promise is easily compared to how wwx treated wn when he tried to bow to him. Another thing that doesn't look good is how JC will recognize his sister as someone with feelings and priorities in life that will lead her away from him and even marry a guy JC doesn't like, but won't recognize the same for wwx, and even get angry over it (Then again, this might also have to do with the notion that a woman will obviously marry out of her family and that wouldn't happen with wwx for being a man, or that leaving one's sect is unthinkable)

Honestly I think the best light I can see JC’s treatment of WWX in boils down to “You’re not like other servants”, and even then it feels generous. Like, JC treats WWX like a favoured servant, but that’s not the same as not seeing him as a servant or as beneath JC. Like... he says “Oh, the children of servants (or rather lower classes in general, given how he treats JGY the same way) will never amount to anything”... and he never gives WWX any rank even after WWX wins a fucking war for him. As sect leader it would not be hard for him to reward the ace up his sleeve who was probably half the reason the sects won (at least as fast as they did) and with... less casualties than there might have been (with JGY as the other half) with something, even just money, but WWX gets nothing and is expected to just carry on as before. His reward is to keep serving JC. The children of servants can never amount to anything... and when he gets the chance to put WWX, the child of a servant, on equal footing with him (or just somewhat more secure footing than he’s currently on), JC doesn’t take it. I mean, I can’t speak to Chinese history, but at least in the West “noble deeds on the behalf of your liege” was one of the most common ways for new noble houses to be founded! For comparison, JGY is both a bastard and the child of a prostitute (so I presume lower on the social hierarchy than the trueborn son of a servant favoured by a sect leader and quite possibly the most powerful rogue cultivator of their generation, at least so long as his sect leader father doesn’t recognise him) and he gets legitimized (and named heir after JZX’s death) following his part in the Sunshot Campaign. Yeah, even JGS treats his lower class war hero better than JC does (although that’s probably just pragmatism rather than decency; JGS may not be better than JC, but he’s certainly smarter).

And yeah, the way JC reacts to JYL getting married compared to WWX leaving (not even getting married; it’s only fan stuff that makes that a big deal for him! In canon his issue with WWX and LWJ getting married is that he’s a massive homophobe, not WWX leaving because of it) says... a lot. I mean, I’m pretty sure that as her only surviving male relative JC would’ve had to sign off on JYL’s marriage; he actively agreed to it, and shows no signs of being upset by the situation. He recognises that JYL has her own life to live and is happy moving into Lanling to be with JZX, and takes it with... as close to good grace as JC ever gets. Meanwhile WWX leaves to honour the life debt that JC shares and... JC gets him and fifty innocent people, some of whom he owes his life to, including a child killed because he couldn’t stand the thought of supporting WWX’s life away from him. And frankly even if he was just pissy about WWX leaving to get married... that’s his own damn fault for not giving WWX a title, because from what I’ve read men would marry into their spouse’s family if said spouse was of a higher rank than they were, which is a situation made far more likely to occur by the man in question basically being a servant. And also getting disowned. Don’t get me wrong, as sect heir LWJ would outrank WWX anyway unless JC named WWX heir as well (which he would never do), and even in that case I’m not actually sure what the rule would be for who marries into whose family if both parties and their families are of the same rank, but the fact that JC didn’t even consider making preparations for WWX getting married to try to prevent him marrying into someone else’s family suggests that either he didn’t think someone moving in the upper echelons of society while having insane power and being ridiculously charming could ever attract a high-ranking person (likely, given his belief that servants and the children of servants can never amount to anything; presumably that includes their marriage prospects) or the thought of WWX wanting to get married never occurred to him (also likely, given how he doesn’t seem aware of the fact that WWX does in fact have... a life and desires of his own).

[crossdressingdeath]

I read a fic recently that claimed that if JC had tried to support WWX and the Wens, nothing would have changed except the Jiang Sect being destroyed too. And I just really don’t think that’s true. For one thing, we clearly see the difference between how these characters treat sect leaders/family members of sect leaders vs those they see as beneath them. JC would’ve immediately had more sway than WWX, even with the power the Jiang sect had lost. Secondly, it would have been a 1/6

Sect leader giving support to WWX’s words, which at the very least would’ve made the other sects have another look at what was actually happening. I seriously doubt the Jins could just straight up attack the Jiang sect and not get serious backlash from the Lans and the Nies if only because it would make the Jins look like they were angling to be the next Wen sect - but also, had JC supported WWX, I truly believe the others would have listened to what WWX was trying to say. And then, it 2/6

It also would have been very easy for JC to explain why he was speaking on behalf of the Wens - a life debt. Has he just told people that WQ and WN had saved his life during the war, and were the only reason he was still alive, and thus the reason that his sect had been able to be rebuilt and survive - that would have been an INCREDIBLY good reason for why he’d be willing to help them. The fact is, no matter what, JC would not have been condemned the same way WWX was because 3/6

in the eyes of the other sect leaders, he has the right lineage, and to a lot of them, that’s all that matters. Even if WWX wasn’t a demonic cultivator, they would probably be less inclined to listen to the son of a servant. I wish people would stop acting like JC was some weak nobody with no standing who couldn’t do anything - he was a sect leader of one of the 5 great sects! Even with their loss of power, he still had their reputation. The fact that they were able to rebuild so 4/6

so quickly clearly suggests that they weren’t weak. It wasn’t that JC couldn’t help, it’s that he didn’t want to. Seriously, JC has actively said on numerous occasions that he wants these people dead. That he wants WWX to abandon them and come home. So what, JC can easily shelter the demonic cultivator that everyone hates and he has the power for that, but he can’t protect the Wens? At this stage, WWX and the Wens would’ve pretty much been on the same footing. 5/6

So yeah, JC could’ve definitely helped if he wanted to (and looking from the perspective of a life debt, he actually should have done so) but he just didn’t want to. He wanted the Wens dead, even showed that he was disgusted with a toddler the first time he saw A-Yuan. This guy just doesn’t have the desire to help anyone but himself. 6/6

...The Jiang sect was not in danger of being destroyed, what?

I mean, come on. Even aside from everything else, it took the near-complete destruction of one sect and the complete destruction of another for the sects to go to war with WRH; war among the great sects is not something to be undertaken lightly! It quite literally took WRH openly attacking two great sects for them to fight him! And it would be an even bigger deal now, with one of the great sects completely destroyed less than a decade ago. The complete eradication of a major sect (note that that’s only the big five, the smaller sects seem to get destroyed a bit more often) is such a huge deal that as far as we know in the entire history of the sects it’s happened twice, and the second time was a direct result of the first! The Jiangs would be just fine, at worst they’d be ridiculed and lose a bit of power, except they wouldn’t because all JC would have to do was explain he was fulfilling a life debt. Debts are serious business; if I remember right JGY wiped out at least one smaller sect as payment of a blood debt for his son’s life, and people’s issues with XY wiping out the Chang clan were with the level of devastation he wreaked, not him getting vengeance. Even XXC, the most kind-hearted and honourable character in the novel, only says that he went too far. If JC, leader of a major sect, stood up for WWX and the Wen remnants in order to fulfill a life debt he owed to those particular Wens, that would change a lot. If nothing else the fact that the life debt existed would convince some people; a good chunk of the reason for people being so against their survival is that it’s assumed they were willingly complicit in WRH’s actions, so them risking their lives to save the Jiang sect leader would be a huge point in their favour. JGY even points out that JC could have protected WWX and chose not to; there’s no word of “Oh, even after everything he did to help you you chose your sect over your brother”, it’s just “You chose to abandon your brother”. Which, I know JGY isn’t the most reliable narrator, but I do think it says something that he wasn’t like “Oh, poor thing, having to choose, he made you choose”.

And yeah, it’s incredibly clear that JC didn’t help the Wens and WWX because he didn’t think they deserved to be help. He’s disgusted by the idea that WWX wants to help these people just because they need help and says no one will stand by him even know people will and have. He wasn’t thinking of his sect. He simply chose to let WWX and the Wen remnants die without lifting a finger to help them.

[crossdressingdeath]

A thing I hate with fans is not just their interpretation of JC as a character (it's a fandom, everyone can do what they want with the characters, and I just can avoid reading it) but the way their view of JC subtly or not so subtly wraps their view of WWX, probably as he was the closest person to JC during most of the story and the one the most affected by JC’s actions or absence of actions. I guess we all already know and hate the interpretation that WWX is just a disaster child without1/8

common sense while JC is "thinking like a sect leader" (if he ever does, his way of thinking is way closer to JGY/JGS rather than LXC or NMJ though, way too close for comfort), but there are more subtle misreadings like that WWX never realized that his actions have consequences for the people close to him or that he thinks he lives in a vacuum. That's ofc why he chose to ask JC to kick him out of the sect to preserve the Jiang reputation and always chose to act alone regarding the Wens,2/8

signing his own death warrant, and yeah, WWX, the no-name too-talented orphan never realized that your place in society has an impact on you, especially compared to JC, the privileged heir to a big clan! Like WWX knows very well that storming up into conference halls and causing scenes is not the ideal way, but it's the only one that is still open to him when his sect leader is washing his hands of the ongoing genocide issue while inflicting minimum damage on the sect (not none of course,3/8

but nothing comparable to if he used Jiang disciples to help him or just brought the Wens to LP). He’s also a gremlin at times, and yet people who criticize this often cute but unnerving side of him, never condemn in quite the same way if ever the way JC rages on and insults everyone--but it’s a trauma reaction, they say about JC. And what do they think WWX’s behavior is? Or another one that I hate which is that WWX is bad at intimacy and relationships because he isn't communicating with JC4/8

while it's not his relationship skills that are bad, but it's precisely his relationship with JC that is bad, mainly because of JC's behavior and personality. How can you even begin to communicate to your petulant sect leader that letting people who saved you die is actually a bad thing and shouldn’t be done? Or yet another one that people close to WWX are right to let him down and not to trust him because he doesn't trust him back, but really, WWX is right not to trust JC about the Wens or5/8

ever think that he'll help him because JC said he won't, and his only proposed solution was to let everyone and A-Yuan die. And even if the GC reveal took place pre time skip, it might have made JC less angry at WWX personally and saved the lives of the demonic cultivators tortured to death, but JC still wouldn't have done anything to help WWX or the Wens (the stans believe he couldn't anyway), so WWX wasn't so wrong not to inflict pointless mental trauma on JC with the reveal since it6/8

wouldn’t have changed anything in the current situation. And the way they always use the plural “people close to him” in talking about being right not to trust WWX is disingenuous because there were no multiple people here, just JC. No one else stopped trusting WWX, not JYL, even after JZX’s death, not LWJ even after everything went down, not the people who stood up for him during the conference, not JZX himself who tried to save WWX, not a single person who was close to WWX *except* JC.7/8

He’s the only one, so it seems more of a JC problem than a "people" problem. At this point, it’s more a rant than an ask but I started noticing that not only many meta/fics about JC make me roll my eyes, but that those people's interpretation of WWX is really twisted too to make JC look less bad and shift some blame for the way JC acts on WWX, so it’s not even enough to avoid JC content.8/8

Yeah, half the reason I avoid anything JC-centric or anything written by people who openly think he’s in the right (the other half being of course that I Hate Him So Much) is that it’s always awful to WWX. Like, it really is JC stans shoving the blame for WWX’s mistreatment onto him so that they don’t have to try to justify JC’s behaviour. It comes across as very victim-blaming. I find it genuinely upsetting, the way they twist the victim of JC’s constant abuse around so they can say that actually it’s all his fault that JC is cruel to him and JC was right to betray and abandon him. “No one can trust him,” they say, ignoring the fact that JC was the only one of his friends and family to turn on him. “He never thinks about the consequences or the people around him,” they say of the one who repeatedly tries to take all the consequences onto himself so that no one else has to suffer. They straight up lie about so much of WWX’s character just to make JC look better and I hate it. And it’s like... “He’s not like JC, who thinks like a sect leader” they say of WWX, who is the one constantly getting JC out of the horrible situations that JC’s “sect leader thinking” would resolve with every Jiang in the area dead. You see it in the Xuanwu’s cave where JC’s plan of staying out of it would’ve had him killed as an inconvenient witness or hated by everyone in the sects for letting two sect heirs die without lifting a finger, you see it in the first siege where JC led his forces against a necromancer on his home turf... JC only cares about what’s best for him, and no one else. I suppose that could be considered thinking like a sect leader, provided the sect leader in question is JGS... Even JGY cares about at least one other person enough to take risks for them! But no, it’s WWX who’s the problem here, the one who’s not okay with leaving allies to die for the incredibly slim chance that WC might deem him beneath notice.

Basically, in like. 90% of JC meta, they swap a lot of WWX and JC’s personality. WWX becomes harsh and untrustworthy, unaware of the importance of society’s views of a person (especially a person with no rank, because JC considers that all the time), while JC wants to help but his horrible brother keeps messing things up for him! Let’s just ignore the fact that JC is a sect leader with power and alliances while WWX is the orphaned son of a servant and necromancer who doesn’t even have the support of his own sect leader, shall we? 

[llycaons]

26. this was hard to watch.

I haven’t been talking much about jgy or how he’s treated by shit by the jins for trying his very best to be a good host and how he gets scapegoated for things other people do wrong because I think it’s pretty clear where his motivations stem from and how desperately he wants power (and not just power to be safe, but to dominate, to control, and to take revenge)

there’s an argument to be made about how he sees and understands the struggle of the poor/disenfranchised and how he helps out other people like him (su she) and those watchtowers were a genuinely great idea and helped a lot of people out, but ultimately he’s not trying to change the conditions for people like him, he’s trying to attain the most personal power he can in the system (and the FAMILY) that tormented him and his mother

I’m not going to comment any more on that because I don’t feel that it’s my place but I don’t think anyone in this show is like, advocating for revolution in the way that I see a lot of western leftists discuss it. not even wwx.

anyway, su she is here and jgy is really supportive and kind and remembers his name and doesn’t look down on him which earns him su she’s lifelong loyalty, but he’s also buddies with lxc so how did that even work? did lxc like, not notice? did he take it as another example of jgy’s stellar judgement and angelic powers of forgiveness and grace?

(where’s that post like “lxc was too pretty being beautiful to notice his sword brother murdering his other sworn brother?”

lxc thinks he knows jgy but he doesn’t, while jgy does know lxc and uses it to manipulate him and use him...parallels the parallels the antithesis to wangxian

oohh, phoenixes on the jin throne? they just have a ton of motifs don’t they. sparks amidst snow. koi. phoenixes.

lwj is still super mad about the betrayal thing but since lwj voluntarily left the cave of his own will maybe it’s a matter of principle. that’s an underrated character trait of his, how he feels about su she. maybe it’s not about the outcome of his actions but rather the cause and motivation of them. that seems likely to me

jiang cheng is wearing such a pretty headpiece here

zixun is an asshole and his entire family ignores what could very easily have become a diplomatic incident if lxc wasn't such a doormat so committed to sacrificing his own personal wants for the general good. jgy tries to step in and even nmj looks alarmed but god no this douche just HAS to have his way. and literally lwj would have sat there ignoring him for the entire rest of the banquet if wwx hadn’t swooped in

you know how many gifs I’ve seen of that split-second shot of lwj looking mildly surprised when wwx takes the cup with the most intense sexual commentary on it? like if you see it as sexual, whatever, but the degree that people take it and make really weird commentary about characters who are almost certainly still teenagers...im sick of it especially when they’re adults talking about it. there are definitely moments in cql that I think could be read with a sexual meaning (or even are explicitly sexual, like the library scene with the porn) but that’s just not one of them? and it’s such a short moment too. ugh

wwx has such fucking killer lines here. some of his most iconic. and obviously worrying, but for the circumstances they’re pretty kickass

I said last time I was annoyed with how xz expresses wwx's anger, but here I can really feel it. it starts off cold and restrained and confident and at every turn as he’s denied justice again and again the rage just builds until he’s threatening to murder jin zixun in a room full of the most powerful political figures in his world

“Overturning the heavens? Are you calling yourself the heavens?”

the absolute dead look in jiang cheng’s eyes as he forces himself to smile at jgs is actually hysterical

why didn’t wwx go to jiang cheng first? would posing a united front as the Jiang clan have made a difference? would jc have agreed to shelter any wen refugees besides wen qing and wen ning, if them? does wwx think as little of jc as jc thinks of him?

there’s something to be said about how wwx’s big flaw as a character is trying to do everything on his own. it’s something he sees in wen qing too. and if wwx had been able to feel like he could rely on his family, maybe it wouldn’t have come to this. but jc has repeatedly torn him to shreds for trying to save people that aren’t jiang sect and wwx doesn’t even seem to consider asking him for help, instead just focused on getting what he needs as soon as he can. and with his new power, he feels like he can do it

"If I want to kill someone, who dares stop me?”

it’s such a sick joke that jin zixun claims revenge for torturing the wens to wei wuxian’s face, the member of the clan most devastated by the wen attack, who has personally undergone such loss and grief because of it

jc’s anger really is so unpleasant and awful to watch. wwx acting out gets him pissed enough to crush a cup with his bare hands and it’s not even because the jins are murdering and torturing people that jc personally owes a debt to. it’s about how wwx undermined his power and it’s making him look bad. and he has a clan to protect, I get that, and I think his options as such a young leader with a weak sect were limited, but christ. you owe your life to those people! I have more sympathy for him here than I do for him postres. postres jc is even more hateful

unfortunately, I relate a lot to jc and, like him, I find it easier to turn to anger rather than sorrow. which is why I’m talking more bout how pissed off he makes me (which he does! he really does!) and less about how he’s only like, 18 and has no idea why his brother doesn’t trust him and keeps shaking up the safety and stability of their sect and he’s frustrated because he’s trying to keep the jiangs going and live up to his parent’s wishes and also handle complicated politics with experienced and corrupt power-hungry cultivators who actively manipulate his weaknesses and prey on his inferiority complex. so I get it. he makes me devastated. but also, fuck him. for a lot of reasons. relating to him doesn’t mean I like him.

the way wwx is getting visibly emotional watching wen qing eat...this once-proud woman with nowhere to go and nobody else to ask for help, crouched on the porch and tearing into her food with such desperation...

I’ve seen that parallel post and I wonder if wwx is thinking of his own days on the streets

lxc sends lwj out to bring wwx back into the fold of socially and politically safe behavior, which may mean abandoning the wens, but I don’t think lwj or lxc are really interested in any help for them that defies the jins or goes against the proper channels

the power of a good speech is really an underrated theme in this show. say something prettily enough and you’ll have a whole roomful of lickspittles with zero critical thinking skills or compassion agreeing with you

there’s not a lot I have to say about the prison camp. I got chills the first time I realized to what an extent the jins were torturing and murdering the defeated. one powerful and sadistic group of people exchanged for another, from “we were just following orders” to “we didn’t kill anyone, they all died by accident” to “we’ll get in trouble, we have to kill them all now”

in the novel, it’s even more on-the-nose because the jin literally just took the branding iron that the wens used and changed the shape on it to become the jin symbol. I actually kind of wish that had been included.

“You aren’t killing people, because the wens aren’t people to you?”

the tears of rage...

I started crying to see wen ning clutching that sachet that wwx had made for him. trusting to the end

the rain effect where they all froze in time for a moment was thrilling. frog-eyed wen ning looked inhuman

why DID wen qing beg wen ning not to murder the guards? did she not want to see him like that? did she know he wasn’t in his right mind? I got the impression that he was acting out deeply-buried and repressed feelings of anger and hatred and terror

granny wen is covering a-yuan’s eyes...a-yuan also has his hand over his eyes oh my god I can’t do this. he’s just a toddler he’s just a baby

it’s a shame that lsz is such a one-dimensional character with a backstory like this...

whatever else happened because of what wwx did here today, in 18 years wen ning and lan yuan will be able to build a memorial for their lost family together. the wens will be laid to rest with dignity and leave a surviving member safe and free and happy and ready to learn about his heritage and his birth family, to know of wen qing and uncle four and granny. what wei wuxian did here mattered

[wangxianhugs]

Mhm, that almost sounds like taking responsibilities of their own actions is a bad thing...is it any wonder they are jc’s fans?

To be serious, though, the fallout and all consequences that happened to the Lans/Jins/other sects are the result of their own actions, ie planning/executing/helping the murder of innocents, or in other words, their karmas finally catching up with them. Like the old saying, “it’s not that there is no karma for your action, it’s just not the time yet” (loosely translated).

 And honestly, for their actions, I still feel the consequences weren’t enough, especially jc got off easy despite the blood of (most likely innocents) demonic cultivators and the wen remants on his hands. Look, the Jins even has hope that their next generation could be better, the Lans lost what, a sect leader, but only temporary (an interview said lxc left seclusion and got married later, which is funny cause lwj got whipped half dead because he fought the elders to protect a supposed-to-be evil man, but lxc trusting the wrong person who used it to murder a sect leader, kill many Lan disciples by persuading lxc to support him/sending the disciples to nightless city and wen qing/ning’s execution, zoombie-fy multiple entire sects, raided and murdered an innocent man and his family, yet ended up with a few years voluntarily seclusion.

 Yes, I know lxc was blinded by a master manipulator, but a. he admitted he knew of jgy’s actions and b. he STILL fucking believe he had reasons (what the fuck reason do you use to justify murdering entire sects???) and most importantly, c. he’s a sect leader and responsible to the sect’s actions under his rulings. I’m not arguing if lwj’s punishment was unfair by itself, but certainly something is funky in the punishment system if lxc got no punishment at all, just voluntarily seclusion that he could get out at anytime).

I can't believe how pissed some people are that wangxian got a happy ending. Someone said they just "left jc to deal with the consequences" yeah fool the consequences of his own goddamn actions. Is he not a grown ass man??

I mean, also... what fucking consequences? The things that Wangxian brought about don’t actually have anything to do with JC. Not directly, anyway. It’s the Lans and Jins that are handling the fallout of what happened with JGY, not the Jiangs, and if JC involves himself in it that’s his choice, not something Wangxian foisted on him. And no, Wangxian did not foist the consequences onto the Lans and Jins either, because I know people argue that, too. At the end of the day fixing the problems the sects created was never Wangxian’s responsibility, and frankly doing what they did is already more than they technically had to. But yeah, the only consequence that JC faces directly because of Wangxian is... the fact that WWX wants nothing to do with him now. And he has no one to blame for that but himself, given the whole wholesale slaughter of civilians and repeated attempts at fratricide and generally being terrible to WWX for years situation. Of course the actual argument that the stans are making is that WWX didn’t have the right to get sick of JC treating him like shit and go off to live his own life, but that’s... y’know, stupid.