#The life of Theseus

[athamad]

Theseus and women

Theseus is one of the most hated characters in Greek mythology on the internet and l wanted defend him because l love him and he's clearly, VERY clearly misunderstood. Now, by misunderstood l don't mean, "Oh, his father wasn't around so he was traumatized," l mean he is always characterized as this misogynist egoist man who everybody loves just because he's a MAN™, which isn't true at all. I'm not going to explain why l love him directly in this post but I'm just going to explain why people misinterpret his relationship with women, because other than his "misstreatment" of women, he's literally just a guy.

Theseus and Amphitrite

Like, look at him! He's just a boy! Anyways, let's start with the obvious reason he gets hate.

Ariadne

We all know the story of him leaving her behind and then Dionysus finds her yada yada. We don't know why he does this, some people say that he's just a jerk and did this dick move because he wanted to but l beg to differ. Many modern-day writers tried to explain this abandonment, though most of them just painted Theseus as a jerk like leaving her because she was annoying or like what l said, just because he's a dick. I was researching how authors reasoned him for his abandonment and guess what THERE ARE SOURCES ARE EXPLAINING HIS ACTION, 1) She was killed by Artemis, this is not a well-known one but it is an explanation of him leaving Ariadne behind, Ariadne was killed by Artemis while she was giving birth to his sons, l couldn't find a reason on why she did it but this is a reason, 2) Dionysus demanded him to leave her because he wanted her, some sources say this and even say that the reason Theseus forgot to change his sails was that he was sad about leaving Ariadne behind, now, does this mean he's an angel, no because some sources do say 3) Theseus willingly leaving her behind, however, they all give a different explanation. A reason l like comes from the book "The king must die" where Ariadne is participating in a human sacrificial ritual and Theseus doesn't like that because it reminds him of Medea or something. I don't know l just read it while researching l didn't read the book but l like it, Ariadne being all crazy and that because it would explain why she's great with Dionysus and her parents are both very cold people, one being a goddess and one being... Minos. I heard there are versions where Athena tells him to leave her but l couldn't find them so that could have been added very later. Now, what version do l see as the truth? None. I like the version my brother suggested, which is "He forgot,". HE FORGOT, HES FORGETFUL, AND HE ALSO FORGETS TO CHANGE THE SAILS. I like it so much because HES LITERALLY JUST A GUY. But, in all seriousness, you can dislike Theseus for leaving Ariadne behind since there are sources that say he left her willingly but check the other versions too.

Theseus, Athena, Dionysus, and Ariadne.

Now that that's out of the way, let's see any other reason Theseus gets hate that involves yet another woman! Which is...

Helen

There is a myth that Helen is kidnapped by Theseus... That's it. So, for context (even though everyone knows it already) Theseus and his "best bud" (wink, wink) Pirithous are both demigods, Theseus being Poseidon's son and Pirithous Zeus's. Since they both have divine blood, they conclude that they will marry one of Zeus's daughters, Theseus picks Helen and Pirithous picks Persephone (like an idiot). They abduct Helen, yada yada, try to abduct Persephone but fail miserably, yada yada. And people dislike him because... he kidnapped Helen, yeah, okay, let's break this down. Kidnapping women was a very well-known thing in ancient Greece, was it acknowledged it was bad? Yes. But was it still there? Also yes. But this isn't about lust, Theseus kidnaps Helen because she is Zeus's daughter and he thinks he deserves at least a demi-god because he is one too. Can this be considered hubris? Yes, it can, and in my opinion, it is. Theseus has done very heroic stuff and wants something in return, he thinks that a mortal wife is too little for him so he picks what he thinks is the best thing for him, a wife whose father is Zeus. He doesn't do this as an act of lust, just hubris, and maybe for reputation, since Helen is the most beautiful woman, having the most beautiful woman as a wife is a thing to be proud of. But that doesn't mean Theseus gets what he wants immediately, because Helen is young, very young. He even acknowledges that as an Athenian, which is okay to marry a 14-year-old girl, but Helen is younger. Sources change her age from 9 to 12, but the point is, she's too young. So, Theseus decides he'll wait and gives her to his mother in the meantime. When he gets rescued by Heracles, he faces consequences, which is learning his mother is now a slave to Castor and Pollux. This is what l like about him too, he's a king, a hero, yet faces consequences more than anyone. Even if he doesn't, when he does bad things to another, bad things happen to him later, Karma bites him in the ass, and in my opinion making a character face consequences is the best way to make them feel human and relatable. Theseus isn't the only one, every mortal in Greek mythology are human-like character to me because they face consequences! Heracles, Achilles, Agamemnon, Odysseus, Bellerophon, and many more make bad choices, face the consequences, and acknowledge them! Theseus kidnapping Helen is a bad thing, yes, but he didn't even touch her because she was a child and his mother got taken away in the end.

Theseus taking away Helen

So yeah, this is it. I was going to go into more detail about his relationship with women since there are women he helps and respects but this is all for now. If l made any mistakes, please let me know without sounding rude, l can take constructive criticism. Anyways, have a good day!

(@coloricioso was the one who asked me to explain my Theseus obsession, so here it is!)

[stemmmm]

FINALLY the part 2 of my Theseus' Guide chapter 8 animatic is done!

maybe i merge the two later, but for now, part 1 is right here

[theseusmcalt]

jimmy's third life is so special he cares abt scott so much :')

jimmy : you're so good at building !!

scott, self deprecatingly : i had to be good at something

jimmy, immediately : HEY. *equips his sword* you're good at everything. >:C

[maeo-png]

Of course it's fucking THESEUS

okay. i havent shut up about the greek myth aspects of Simon's story and i wont stop now. At first it was a statue of Persephone in the garden, with it's head replaced to be Betty, giving the implication that Betty is the Persephone to Simon's Hades, and it was Simon's status as an antiquarian. and now we've gotten Simon being a huge nerd and bringing up Theseus completely unprompted (so real)

a bit of context in case you need it, Theseus was one of those greek "legendary Heroes" (Achilles, Heracles, etc.), and previously King of Athens, but had managed to dodge most bad things that happen to Greek heroes. he was just stupid and i guess they took pity on him.

The Ship of Theseus or "Theseus' Paradox", which I'd imagine all of tumblr knows by now, but if you don't, is the question on whether if a ship, specifically Theseus', is still the same ship after having all of its parts replaced exactly. To me this makes for such an obvious connection to Simon. Simon's story factors around identity, first and foremost. (yknow. "I Remember You" and all that?) The concept of not knowing what you are fundamentally was originally Ice King's thing, as his previous life as Simon was essentially history. But now that's being brought to Simon. and Simon has the lucidity to process what that means for him.

[melodyartist]

ıııııuuhhhhuhuhhheheaha Theseus mayybbee.. just a lil doodle tho u dont have to make it a masterpiece like others(LIKE PREGNANT AGAMEMNON FOR EXAMPLE🥵🔥🔥💥💥

Ah yes, my least favourite hero and worst douche in all of Athens, Theseus.

(I love beating his ass in Hades)

[nondelphic]

if i revise a draft so many times that it’s almost unrecognizable from the original, is it still the same story, or have i created a completely new narrative?

[ep2nd]

I have to say, Hippolytus has become one of my favorite myths/Greek heroes, and not just cause we're both AroAces... mostly

Now the basic story is- Man just wants to live his best hunting life with the goddess Artemis without any relationships and then Aphrodite goddess of Love looks at that and goes "HOW DARETH NOT SHIPPETH" and eventually causes his death by his own father... which tumbles into Asclepius death and Apollo turning human... again

Well here's some things I'd like to say that should be talked about more, some headcannos some retelling some filling in blanks

Hippolytus is a PRINCE OF ATHENS. Heck he's Theseus' son. THE Theseus. He probably still had expectations and a job to do as a prince. It wouldn't surprise me if suitors tried to get him married. Like, men from across Greece would LOVE to have their daughter we'd to this guy, the prince of Athens! Think of the power and stability. Think of the stories where Hippolytus just runs into the woods because he hate she responsibilities and doesn't want to get married. And his dad probably forcing him to choose! WHERES THAT.

Let's remember the maternal side of his family. Aka the badass warrior Hippolyta, THE QUEEN OF THE AMAZONS AND DAUGTER OF THE GOD OF WAR AND THE FOUNDER OF THE AMAZONS. I know Amazon's don't like men, but as shown with Hippolyta with Theseus and later Heracles, she still respects strong men. I believe his mom LOVED him, despite being male. Was so proud and adored him, teaching her son the Amazonian ways. Not to say that his grandmother, Otrera was probably still alive. Probably didn't like men like her daughter, but could respect her strong grandson, ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE FOUND OUT HE JOINED ARTEMIS HUNT. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE 2 MAIN GODS OF THE AMAZONS. Aka I want to see how Hippolyta and Otrera felt about him.

Now depending on the myth, Hippolyta can be related to 1 to 3 gods. Aka he has the highest record of a Legacy... I think. His grandfather's are Poseidon(Theseus dad)and Ares(Hippolytas dad) and with a stretch, cause I like this Headcannon, his great grandfather is Eurus (Otrera dad, God of Fall and the East wind). So is no one going to talk about how this man is related to 2 powerful Olympians, one of the Wind gods, a descendent of the Amazonians, fierce women warriors, and the son of Theseus, the slayer of the Minotaur????? OH AND HES LIKE THE ONE OF THE FEW MEN ARTEMIS EVER LIKED. THE ARTEMIS. If Ancient Greece had resumes he'd be winning

Talking bout Artemis... it's hard to believe after the Orion incident...which I don't think is too far apart... that Artemis, who befriended a male, giving him a chance, and then him becoming feral and destroying wild life, her sacred place/animals/domain, or falling in love with her, aka the ONE THING YOU DOMT DO. So for Artemis to just get another guy to join the girls only clun.. yeah there was probably a deeper reason and relationship under that. I feel like she met him when he was young, after him running into the woods night hating the royal life, and he helps some girl, probably one of her Huntresses, gets her attention, and they talk about Hunting and hating love, you know fun stuff. I feel like she kinda raised him, teaching him hunting, the importance of life, respecting women, hating love... aka a mom figure(because I'm pretty sure Hippolyta was running the Amazon's and couldn't bring her son with her) so yeah. I believe they had a mother-son relationship. It makes sense it's adorable it also explains how far Artemis would go to bring him back to life. KNOWING THERE WOULD BE CONSEQUENCES. Bruh she didn't even try to resurrect Orion. Just saying a mother's love is very strong.

On that note... I feel like Asclepius and he actually knew each other. 1. Asclepius is nice guy but not dumb, he wouldn't just be handing this cure to death to anyone. Now Artemis could have threatened him but that's whatever. In retrospec, they're kinda cousins, and I feel like they had a nice relationship before his death. ALSO. CAN YOU THINK OF THE ANGST?!? How much guilt Hippolytus would be feeling after. HES THE REASON ASCLEPIUS DIED. YEAH HE DIDN’T ASK FOR ANY OF THIS BUT HIS COUSIN DIED BECAUSE OF HIM. I want those two to reunite and Asclepius to hug him and tell him everything's okay and it worked out cause now he'll help people forever as a god.

Finally. No, he wouldn't forgive his farther. Probably already hates him after, leaving his mom, being a horrible king, not understanding his wished for not wanting to get married, not believing HIS OWN SON OVER HIS NEW WIFE, OH AND KILLING HIM. I want the Hippolyta, Hippolytus, Ariadne, and Zagreus "WE HATE THESEUS" club. Please. It be hilarious. On the topic of Hades game- YES I WANNA SEE HIPPOLYTUS MAYBE HANGING OUT WITH HIS DEAD MOM PELASEEEEW.

[chippedshake]

when steve gets angry he hits things, he screams, he loses control. but never towards the people he loves. he could never stoop that low, never feel himself becoming his father.

when soda gets angry he runs. he doesn't know how to express it, how to tell someone he's frustrated or annoyed or that the world has become too much, so he runs.

when darry gets angry he breaks. he lives building a dam around everything he doesn't want the world to know, everything he's ashamed of, and when something breaks that dam... anything can happen.

when dally gets angry he forces himself into indifference. emotions are weakness, no matter what kind, and if your opponent knows you're unstable, they can down you more easily. if you know him well enough, you might be able to see the storm building up in his eyes.

when johnny gets angry he takes it out on himself. he curls up and lets the anger curl inwards, tearing himself apart instead of whoever he wishes were on the receiving end. because it's all his fault really.

when two-bit gets angry he gets drunk. he can't make his dad come back, can't make his sister happy, can't make the social divide disappear. all he can do is try to forget about it.

when ponyboy gets angry he creates destructively. he writes about death and makes entire pages almost black. his pen scribbles so aggressively a hole appears in the paper and he'll always end up destroying whatever it is he's made.

[lightningbig]

rambling continued from the tags on this post

thinking about a world where the kaminoans are able to bend death. well enough that the clones become effectively immortal. even when they die they don't, really. they will gasp awake again, always, a never ending cycle of life and breath and violence. they will bleed and they will fall apart but they will knit back together with enough time. they will not succumb to any wounds, not permanently.

this not even being questioned by the clones. its all they've ever known. its how they've been raised. brothers don't die, they sleep and come back. brothers don't die, they bleed and then they get better. brothers don't die, even when they're missing limbs, even when they change in irrevocable ways. the kaminoans have created an army that cannot be bested by mortality. they've created something infinite.

the first time they know death is when one of the trainers washes up, blue and bloated and half eaten by the marine life at the bottom of the sea. they'd been punishing brothers for increasingly mundane reasons in increasingly harsh ways, so they were given a taste of their own medicine. only, trainers don't come back. trainers don't get better. trainers don't live, despite it all.

the jedi, too, are mortal things. things that can die. things that get hurt and don't always heal. things that can benefit from exploiting brothers, from putting a clone in the way of a fatal shot any day.

some of them do. its whats expected. most of them don't. the clones don't understand. brothers dont die, don't they know?

[stump-not-found]

Recently, I was going back through TBOB for... normal, non-Billford related reasons (nailed it), and I came across that little Q&A Bill did.

When the reader asks if Ford was only a tool to Bill, he chooses to use a hammer as the example tool of choice.

Was Ford's Alias in Theseus' Guide a reference to this in any way?

it is! in particular, i was inspired by this exchange from thisisnotawebsitedotcom:

[brimo5]

Why did Pirithous even decide it was a good idea to kidnap Persephone, the queen of the underworld, and then marry her?

The only explanation I always thought of was that he saw it as an act of glory; he was freeing the goddess from having to live in the underworld, only to quickly realize that she wasn't a prisoner but a literal queen.

All I can say is that his behavior comes from a very stupid and hilarious idea🤣

[Noble Mel]eager, son of the wise Oineus, I will tell you exactly.[Pirithous has been greatly misled by] the grim goddess Erinys: [he has come to seek] illustrious Persephone, saying that Zeus whose sport is the thunderbolt [has given approval, and according to the go]ds' customs, to contract for her as his wife. For they too are said to woo their glorious sisters, and make love to them out of sight of their dear [parents. So] he is eager to contract a marriage from among the blessed ones—his own sister from the same father; for he [claims] he is closer kin than great Hades to Persephone, the daughter of lovely-haired Demeter. For he says he is her brother, of one father, while Hades is her dear uncle. It was for that he said he was going down to the misty dark. (M.L. West, Greek Epic Fragments, Minyas fr. 7)

According to Hyginus, it wasn't the Erinys but Jove who ordered them to act in a dream, or they just made this excuse up in front of Pluto.

When Jove saw that they had such audacity as to expose themselves to danger, he bade them in a dream both go and ask Pluto on Pirithous' part for Proserpine in marriage. When they had descended to the Land of the Dead through the peninsula Taenarus, and had informed Pluto why they had come, they were stretched out and tortured for a long time by the Furies. (Hyginus, Fabulae, 79)

Yet, they were punished far less severely than other sinners in Tartarus. One headcanon I actually had was that the chthonic gods basically treated them like bad comedians and trapped them in chairs for everyone's amusement. Pirithous and Theseus are so idiot couple that I'll never be able to take this as a serious story.

[catenasmeasamisi]

Theseus Abandons Ariadne, 11.19.24

[dawnpix]

If butterfly reign doesn't end with Theseus punching Phil and running away to be a pirate with business bay I have wasted over 2 years of my life on a fanfiction for a fandom I no longer care about /j

[leche-flandom]

Okay so my mom gave my daughter some books she got from the flea market. Considering how my mom let us watch a ton of inappropriate movies and shows when we were kids, I probably should've checked them before I let my daughter pick one for her bedtime story tonight, but hindsight is hindy and sighty.

Anyway, I couldn't stop giggling when I read her the story about Theseus because this is the most UNHINGED MINOTAUR I HAVE EVER SEEN

First of all, Theseus reminds me of both the knifer and the knifee from that wikiHow "Winning a Fair Fight" meme. Second of all, I know that Ovid described him as "part man, part bull" so this is technically correct, but... wowzers.

Eh, it was either this or a short story about Grendel's bone-crunching ass.

[amostcuriousmythicist]

You know out of all the lost plays from Ancient Greece that we only have a few fragments of to get us an idea of what it might have been about. One lost play that has fascinated me at the moment is the play Pirithous, which was written either by Euripides or Critias (depends on who you ask)

We have a few surviving lines as well as the hypothesis, which itself is what makes it so intriguing as it reads like this:

‘Peirithous went with Theseus to Hades to get Persephone as his wife. He was duly punished for this impiety by being bound to a rock by snakes. Theseus, thinking it shameful to abandon his friend, willingly chose to stay in Hades with him, but on his mission to abduct Cerberus, Heracles released both men, by the grace of the gods of the underworld.'

(Source: Theseus, Tragedy, and the Athenian Empire by Sophie Mills)

So essentially the idea that the play presents is that initially, only Pirithous was bounded to the underworld and Theseus actually had the chance to escape, and yet he didn’t. Instead, he willingly chooses to stay behind and be tortured along with his friend. An idea that I don’t think is found anywhere else

The story definitely has very not so subtle message about the importance of friendship, especially when Heracles arrives on the scene and compliments his loyalty to his friend as being “worthy of Athens and of the Athenian hero.”

On the flip side Pirithous gets most of the blame for the attempted abduction, especially since Theseus gets exonerated, with Heracles asking him what excuse he has for the ruin he brought on himself. Based off the surviving fragments we have, Pirithous brings up how his own father Zeus abducted his mother Dia who was married to Ixion. Which is an interesting parallel and possible interesting justification on Pirithous part

The last noteworthy thing to me is how the hypothesis’s says that by the grace of the underworld gods (Hades and Persephone I presume) both Theseus AND Pirithous were released by Heracles. This idea is mentioned by Diodorus in his 1st AD chronicle though only in passing. It’s interesting to see how old it is actually.

Here’s a link to Alessandro Boschi’s analysis of the play if you would like to read more about it:

https://dionysusexmachina.it/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Boschi.pdf

[keepmeinmind-01]

wip wednesday 23/10

hi everyone and hope you're having a good week! here are my lines for this week :D

from "all i need", for @wizisbored @stonemaskedtaliesin:

CW: mentions of period-typical racism

Newt had no grand theory, no hypothesis about the roles of creatures or wixen—he only wanted the public to be less afraid and more appreciative, with his academic works simple and illustrative, his books comprehensive and designed for a wider audience.  With every letter, he felt the doubt return. He dared not to ask Theseus, as much as he wanted to, because the Auror Office had been specifically barred from the intel of the Department of Mysteries, and he worried his brother’s head might find some irrecoverable chopping block. In strict confidence, Leta had told him to release a statement, if he so wanted, positioning himself against the magical scientists drawing on the growing trend of Muggle eugenics. Tina had gone a little pale and admitted that she’d never been allowed in any of New York’s resorts, because of her being Jewish.  That, at last, had made him want to release something. The Ministry had posted it for him in a copy of the Prophet; that same week, a Muggle police officer had stopped Theseus and Leta as they’d come out of a riverside restaurant; and new intelligence Albus had given about Grindelwald’s tactical propensities had averted another planned massacre. 

from "never love an anchor 1908 part 4" (which weirdly is part 5, great job me in doing my file names), for @aparticularbandit @oriharaizayadividesintoslytherin @tamsinswriting @lizhly @kallisto-k @enigma-the-mysterious @loyal-house-of-lupin:

CW: referenced infertility

"Well," she said finally, letting the diagnostic spell fade, "it's certainly an unusual curse. Dark magic, without question, but with an interesting temporal component. Were you planning on having children, Mr Scamander?" Theseus's throat tightened. He'd never really thought about it before—or rather, he had carefully avoided thinking about it, the way he avoided thinking about most futures that didn't involve the Ministry. "I suppose that's not relevant now," he said quietly. "Not necessarily. There are treatments we can try. A regimen of specialised potions might be able to counteract the worst effects, though I should warn you they're not pleasant, and success isn't guaranteed." She pulled a piece of parchment from her desk and began writing out instructions in a neat, cramped hand. "Three times daily, with meals. The side effects can be...significant. Nausea, fatigue, occasional magical instability. And even if the treatment is successful, there may be lasting effects we can't predict." Theseus took the prescription, folding it precisely along its creases. His hands didn't shake—he was proud of that—but he could feel the tremors building under his skin, like the precursor to an earthquake. "Thank you," he said, his voice steady. "About the records—" "They'll be sealed, of course. Patient confidentiality." She hesitated. "Though given the nature of the curse, and who cast it..."

from "kmim thesleta flashbacks" for @sourb0i @auburnlaughter @whimsicalmeerkat:

CW a fight in which someone throws a vase

He knew he should stop, knew he was only making things worse, but the words kept coming, propelled by exhaustion and lingering alcohol and the image of that little girl's body that wouldn't leave his mind. "You want to talk about draining? Try walking on eggshells every day, never knowing if you're going to get the woman I fell in love with or someone who looks at me like she's measuring the best place to stick the knife. You bottle everything up, push people away, test them until they break—" The crystal vase sailed past his head before he could finish, missing him by inches. It shattered against the wall in an explosion of glass and early spring daffodils, water running down the wallpaper. Leta stood with her arm still extended, chest heaving, her eyes wild both a mixture of fury and horror. Theseus didn't flinch. If anything, his racing pulse began to slow, settling into an eerily familiar calm. His body remembered old lessons: when things started breaking, it was time to be still. Stay quiet. Don't provoke. Weather the storm. "Are you going to hit me next?" he asked, his voice perfectly neutral. "Go ahead." Instead, she turned and fled the kitchen, leaving him standing amid the glittering shards of broken crystal. Theseus didn't move for a long time. The coffee percolator bubbled and hissed, filling the kitchen with its rich aroma. Water continued to drip down the wall, the daffodils lying broken and scattered across the floor. His mother had given them that vase as a housewarming gift, he remembered distantly. She'd been so pleased to see him settling down, building a proper home with someone. From somewhere upstairs came the sound of drawers being yanked open, things being thrown around. The familiar sounds of packing, of leaving. His feet felt rooted to the floor, even as part of him screamed to go after her, to fix this. But he'd learned that lesson too—sometimes chasing only made them run faster. The morning sunlight caught the broken glass, sending rainbow refractions dancing across the kitchen walls. Beautiful, in its way. Destructive things often were.

and as part of the 2-for-1, from "kmim celebration/sudan" for @sourb0i @auburnlaughter @whimsicalmeerkat:

Rocking back and forth on his heels, he examined the vast range of jars the others had produced and started selecting a few, trying to ignore how discombobulated the sight of his hands reaching out to touch something solid made him feel. Pickled fronds of green cabbage, sesame seeds and grated carrot, bamboo shoots and broccoli stems, and a promising looking pair of jars that contained cucumber and chillies respectively. Leta had loved spicy food; he’d adapted his childhood’s bland palate of basic meals and skipped dinners for her.  This he could do. Cooking had always been a straightforward task for him—following steps, achieving results.  "That large jar is pickled radishes," Newt said. "But the red one next to it is actually preserved specimens of a rather fascinating fungus that grows on the Qilins' preferred grazing grounds. Best not to mix those up." Tina, who had been reaching for the red jar, quickly withdrew her hand. She moved to the sink instead, accidentally knocking the tap and spraying water in several unexpected directions.