#The Wilburs Van analysis

[transphilza]

ok i’m not lucid enough to comment anything about what that finale was actually about, but is that moment where c!tommy hits c!wilbur with the sword the most scared we’ve ever seen c!wilbur? thought i’d consult our resident wilbur analysis expert lol

i loved this question so much i kept it in my inbox for answering while i took months to gather my thoughts about the final stream — i’d say it’s fair to say yes, it was the most outwardly scared we ever saw c!wilbur, and i wanna talk about why this is a great interpretation for that moment

the thing about wilbur is that he’s always afraid — if the spiraling paranoia of the pogtopia era wasn’t explicit enough for you, you don’t need to look much further than the neuroticism speech to understand that anxiety and fear are primary motivators for wilbur. (frankly excessive elaboration under cut)

it’s why he feels such a strong urge to protect those he cares about, to even a possessive degree (talking particularly about c!tommy here), because he is afraid things will slip from his control and he won’t be able to protect what he values (and as such it makes sense why losing l’manberg after the election damaged wilbur so deeply — among other things, the nation provided him with a sense of safety and control over his life and the lives of his family that kept his anxiety relatively manageable)

but my favorite thing about this moment isn’t that it might be the most scared he’s ever been, it’s as nonnie phrases it: it’s the most scared we’ve ever seen him

prior to his revival, the most explicitly we are shown wilbur’s anxiety is right after the Let’s Be The Bad Guys speech, where he mentions the reason he’s doing all this is because he needs to feel safe (and safe = in control)

after his revival, wilbur is slightly more self aware, and with that change we have vulnerable moments like this popping up more willingly, under less duress, but they’re more shallow, particularly as he slips back into old habits. i think of his intense and genuine expressions of love toward tommy as he spoke about family while simultaneously lying to him about many other things — or his being incredibly vulnerable around ranboo and expressing his fear openly in a way we hadn’t seen him describe before, but then acting on his destructive anxious impulses and encouraging ranboo to do the same directly afterward

but particularly after the events of The Wilbur Van, the moments of genuine fear he expresses are all heavy with the hopelessness of suicidality, and the despair (which is certainly driven by fear, perhaps the fear of having to live in limbo forever where everyone he loves can never see him as anything but his mistakes) is the most visible emotion (i think of what he says to phil in the Bust stream about trying so hard and never getting better — despair driven by fear)

it’s a lot easier to identify this despair rather than the fear underlying it in how wilbur behaves, and this is true for the entire duration of his storyline on the smp — that is, except this one moment that you mention, where he sounds purely and utterly terrified

all this long winded rambling to say: why? why is the despair and hopelessness that usually sticks out the most not as palpable here?

it actually comes back to this; the factor that by this point, during this final scene, wilbur has begun to reconcile with himself and reconsider his own fate. sending friend back to ghostbur was an act of kindness toward himself, and i’ve talked about that before, about how these small moments of care and love toward himself are monumentally important in changing how wilbur sees the world around him — in changing how he sees his own life, not as a hopeless tragic narrative but as a dynamic human existence with highs and lows and a chance for hope in the future

all this to say: this is one of the only periods in the story when wilbur has been truly, deeply afraid to die, and the reason he’s so afraid is because finally, finally, after all this time, he thinks he wants to live.

he’s figured a way out, he’s found a third option between death and limbo and for once in his life he thinks he can imagine a future worth living for, or at the very least a future where he is free to shape it on his own, where he is no longer a character trapped in a never ending cycle of loss and suffering

and in a less abstract way, it’s a change of scenery that isn’t full of ghosts and zombies and ruins of people and places he once loved. it’s someplace he can be on his own where he doesn’t have to anxiously ruminate about how his actions are constantly and perpetually disappointing and harming those he loves. a place to heal, or maybe just a place where he can consider what exactly healing means — and tommy is hitting him, and it hurts, and he doesn’t want to die, he doesn’t want to die,

of all things he just wants to go back to fucking utah

[ranboo5]

Anyway [stretches] under a cut because it got Long as usual; tl;dr at the bottom

The thing abt c!Ranboo is his motivation and his actions don’t always align and that is bc of the eternal nature of c!Ranboo as living in a society and Balancing Priorities. He is always self-compromising in its relationships w/ others; more often than not when it agrees to do smth with someone it is doing it not bc it believes in the cause but because it has priorities it needs to mitigate. (Ranboo has not believed in any of the causes put forth by Someone Else in their life the closest they get is the Syndicate and even there it’s only reassured to bc it is reassured it can share opinions)

This starts off wayyyy early with it agreeing to help grief despite not really having a personal reason to do it, and with it collaborating w/ New L’Manberg even through things like the Butcher Army. It consistently does not want to be seen as In Opposition. It works with Tmmy and Techno in large part bc it doesn’t want to come off as opposed 2 them, and bc it has personal investment (+guilt) in Tmmy. Ranboo will literally act like this

- as self preservation - out of a desire to help+spare the feelings of ppl it doesn’t trust to negotiate with - especially later, so it can try to mitigate the parties it’s collaborating w/ -- if he’s involved in the effort, he has more traction 2 attempt to mitigate anything terrible it might do (even when most of the time he doesn’t manage to do this)

This is part of why he initially joined th Syndicate and this is why he worked with Wilbur over th course of the burger arc. Some combination of this is also why he works w/ Dream, smth that is frequently overlooked in Ranboo Analysis; Ranboo volitionally[1] collaborates w/ Dream despite, obviously, having a lot of Active Dislike for Dream and what he is doing, out of a combination of a) he would not want 2 frame himself as Opposed To Dream in any interaction w/ Dream, b) he is generally sympathetic and pitying, c) ideological agreement w/ some aspects of Dream’s goals, and d) desire to mitigate/stay close to Dream. Ranboo keeps his friends close and enemies closer 2 some degree

His relationship w/ Tbbo is not an exception to this it is part of the pattern. It’s just one that has much more present, personal, and consistent stakes. Ranboo complies w/ Tbbo the same way he complies w/ the Syndicate when he’s worried they’re threatening, the same way he complies w/ NLM, the same way he complies w/ Wilbur in the burger arc, th same way he complies with Tmmy early on, the same way he complies w/ Dream offscreen. This is a Known Tactic Ranboo pursues; their project is ultimately of survival and compassion and survival and compassion are both things they have to sacrifice to keep

Tbbo is a unique priority to Ranboo almost in the same way all of the aforementioned r slightly different, unique priorities; in Tubbo’s case, Ranboo is extremely invested in keeping Tbbo safe from others and from Tbbo’s own self with a particular fervor for a very long time. I’m not rehashing the entire beeduo meta here but Ranboo does have particular interest and a particular prioritization for Tbbo for a long ass time; arguably post-NLM and thru burger arc, Tbbo is its first priority bc Ranboo loves him and has convinced itself it’s the only one who can fix him and has also mostly-correctly observed that no one has really been looking out for him. Tubbo is an urgent target in Ranboo’s projects of compassion and of survival both

When those stakes r released, tho, in the burger van conversation (the “you weren’t happy before?”) Ranboo no longer has Tbbo at the same priority level irt the project of survival especially, and, despite how guilty and upset it makes them, prioritizes their 5D chess game with Wilbur instead (ironically sacrificing a solid chunk of its project of survival). Its motives @ the end of Ho16 r commonly cited as being abt Tbbo but that’s not entirely what he says and if it was Ranboo HAS the kind of analytical presence of mind to know that it Killing Himself doesn’t help Tbbo as much as it deals with Wilbur

Ho16 is abt Ranboo winning aforesaid 5D chess game; Tbbo is only part of the stakes 4 that and Mitigating Tbbo is no longer Ranboo’s top priority w/ that. Ranboo’s final monologue is more than anything reminiscent of his earlier arguments about sides and collateral. It’s part of the larger project of compassion, and it’s about the distorted version thereof tht comes with Ranboo getting stuck in its head and its machinations, too; like Tbbo is important to Ranboo and the carelessness abt Tbbo is something unacceptable but to claim Ranboo’s motivations revolve around Tubbo specifically is reductive of his other relationships and actual larger ideological motivations 

I have a problem w/ framings of this as positive/romantic devotion that amkes Ranboo better or as devotion at all bc repeatedly it is shown it makes him Worse, and is in fact the opposite of devotion it's disingenuous by nature. Ranboo is lying. This is so essential to all of this when Ranboo acts like he is in step with you specifically he is lying you are never guaranteed to be the priority. This is him at his worst, th project of compassion at its most compromised, and it’s a state that they explicitly don’t like. Ranboo does not like compromising itself and when they do that they Get Hurt (NLM and outpost arc having the most confabulation we’ve seen in Ranboo in general, Ranboo hating himself for this, Ranboo complying w/ shit like the experiments, Ranboo in all these environments where he is playing this being Constantly Markedly Afraid)

Even throughout the time period where Tbbo is technically priority #1 Tbbo is still . Priority Number One as opposed to like a genuine devotion. Tbbo having a handle on Ranboo in this way is not devotion it is fear and it is again not a mechanism tht Ranboo Only engages for Tbbo it’s just a mechanism, that again IS BAD FOR RANBOO BOTH IRT MENTAL HEALTH AND MORALITY, that has thru circumstance become one tht Tbbo is best at unintentionally activating. Ranboo Does This When You Are His Project. And When He Had A New Project Aside From His Husband That’s What He Did To Him

TL;DR

Ranboo does comply with Tubbo in various activities tht he doesn’t believe in but this isn’t ? Unique to Tbbo this is just Ranboo’s general socialmeta+ what allows it to move in the world the way it does

Ranboo cares about Tubbo deeply and this is relevant to his motivations but that’s only one part of his larger motivations

It’s also honestly not great to frame this complianceas romantic or good bc it’s actively smth that Makes Them Worse in multiple senses

It takes out a ton of Ranboo’s decision making and the negative effects thereof

Anyway stream

[1] No, one dumb as fuck line from Dream Of All People in that lame ass excuse for a finale does not negate All The Things In CRanboo’s Story including working w Dream being part of this consistent pattern, Ranboo’s story being abt agency responsibility and decision in such a way tht it is completely undercut by mind ctrl plots, Ranboo’s ideological agreement w Dream on some matters, the alliumduo parallels, and everything we do know abt the enderwalk as a concept and Ranboo how he acts in and out of it

[bonesandthebees]

So some more Glass thoughts. Aka, things I forgot about but remembered because of everybody else’s asks (for context I only read chapter 15 once and I have not read it since, so most is based on memory and a skim read this time around).

One of the things Jack also seems to be upset about is Tommy not telling anyone shot about Wilbur. He brought it up first in chapter 13 (I think) and now again during the fight. Clearly it upsets him because Wilbur is his friend too, but Tommy is hoarding the info. And it’s not as easy as saying that he’s in the right or wrong for this.

On one side, knowing certain things would make Wilbur easier to deal with for other people. If it affects their interactions, you could argue that they have a right to know. Niki and Jack don’t have bad intentions, much like Phil and Techno. Non of them can help Wilbur if they don’t know what the problem is and what the triggers are. And Tommy can’t and shouldn’t do all of this on his own. And since some things are very hard for Wilbur to talk about and Tommy is very observant, it might be better if Tommy gives out some info about Wilbur behind his back so he doesn’t have to say it himself.

On the other side, Tommy shouldn’t slip everything he knows because Wilbur has a right to privacy. So non of the Deathlinhs have a right to know anything about him that he doesn’t want them to know. They don’t get to know his name, or age, or past trauma. They don’t need to most of the time. It also builds trust between Wilbur and Tommy. He can tell Tommy all these things about himself because Tommy is the only person who will know. There’s no game of telephone spilling all his secrets. At least, not when it!s just him and Tommy. This allows Wilbur to trust and tell other people at his own pace, which is what Tommy wanted to achieve.

Over all it’s a pretty complicated situation and there’s no right side to argue. There’s arguments for both and it’s not as clear where the line should be. Some things should be shared, other things kept a secret. Sometimes Wilbur needs to be forced out of his comfort zone, other times pushing him will break him. The progress ain’t linear and ever interaction calls for a different method depending on a bunch of different factors. There’s generally no right way to go about it either.

But there’s still progress. Wilbur doesn’t try to run. Wilbur tells Niki his name. Wilbur stops pretending that he wants to leave. Wilbur wants to see a mirror and look at his reflection. That’s a big one, especially because he know he hated looking into mirrors at the start of the fic. Wilbur let's Tommy see his full face. Wilbur tells Tommy he’s 22. Wilbur is going to heal from this, but it’z going to take a while and a lot more progress, both negative and positive.

Also, since it’s speak your language day and I can’t exactly do an entire analysis like this, have a message for all you lovely people: Ik hou van jullie allemaal!

-🌲

no you're exactly right. the situation is very complicated. tommy is right not to disrespect wilbur's privacy, but at the same time it's a lot harder for the others to interact with him when they don't know what they're dealing with. of course, at least a partial solution is that tommy just straight up could ask wilbur "hey, can I tell the others [insert thing wilbur told him here]" but he doesn't. and while you could argue that that's simply because tommy doesn't think wilbur will say yes or he doesn't want him to feel pressured, let's not forget how tommy found out wilbur's name behind his back and started using it despite his protests. tommy isn't afraid to push wilbur out of his comfort zone. the only reason he hasn't asked is because again, tommy is possessive. he likes being the one who knows wilbur best. he likes being the person closest to him. it's childish and he convinces himself it's for other reasons, but that's at the root of it.

so the only way for wilbur to make progress outside of tommy is to do it on his own. which he does sometimes! he's finally wanting to see his reflection which is definitely huge. it's a long road, but progress is being made

also im sorry i'm answering this so late so it's definitely not speak your language day anymore but i'm proud to say that even though i don't know dutch i was able to recognize that as dutch at first glance!! (shoutout to my one belgian friend lmao)

[atomickittenland]

you know I've had this conception for a while

The idea that how a character feels when they die and how they feel about their death directly impact their limbo. Wilbur's limbo was eternally waiting Tommy's limbo was just blankness he couldn't see sleds is the most neutral that we've seen. It's just kind of bland. It's just a gym

I’ve been rewatching Tommy’s revival and Wilbur’s revival and what chills my spine is that, even life or death. On the dream smp, peace is a luxury.

(All discussed c! Until otherwise)

This speculation is sort of half-baked to count the proof of canonically died characters who actually went to the after live or “limbo”.

Hearing cc!wilbur talk about how cc’s have their own limbo prepared, specifically ranboo’s as the one he mentioned to be “sad” makes me wonder

Will any of the characters meet their peace when they lose all three lives?

That’s fucking devastating, analyzing this makes the vision of the death system on the dream smp so twisted. it’s shattering yet, facinating.

But that got me thinking: how they died. They all died a tragedy. 

Wilbur died from being ambushed, shot, and suicide. He never died peacefully and he thought he did!

Tommy, ambushed, shot, killed. We all knew how he felt after being revived. But the difference of tommy is that he felt “in between” so does that mean that wasn’t his afterlife after all?

Schlatt, kind of has the least worst one imo. Last deaths seem to take a big impact on how “limbos” will turn out to be. Schlatt’s last death is his own fault and mans stuck in a gym for an eternity i guess…

and Mexican Dream, well….

I gues what I’m getting across how they die across the three lives determinate their limbo, but how do you react to somehow who’d rather be alive than dead?

[strifesolution]

The last chapter was so good!! And since you were talking about the fic's details, I was wondering about the playlist (I am listening to the main one on a daily basis) and I imagine that every songs were carefully chosen. I can guess what some songs mean about 5r6c. Like, From Eden is probably about Eden and Callie. You also mentioned that Genghis Khan is Dan and Wilbur's song.

Would you mind explaining how did you choose these songs and how some of them are related to the fic ?

(If this is too bothersome or would spoil too much of the fic, feel free to ignore the question)

LET’S GOOOO we’re so happy you like the playlist :D you’d be correct, most of the songs are chosen pretty deliberately, though a handful are more just there for the “vibe” of the AU rather than specific lyrics.

Link for anyone who hasn’t seen it; we update pretty often! I added Flu Game last night actually. Expect... a lot of art for this AU with the new Fall Out Boy songs LOL

Since there’s… a lot of songs, and a good amount of them would be kinda spoilery, we’ve both chosen one of our favs and wrote up a little analysis.

Here’s Van’s (@irished-lads) of Neon Moon by Brooks and Dun copied straight from our DM’s

~~~

fun fact, this is one of the songs i listened to on repeat while writing the earlier chapters. this is the ideal chapter 16 song in terms of story and vibe, and while an early 90's country song may have not intended to talk abt the intricacies of gay cowboy polyamory, I Sure Can Make It Do That.

peep the beginning;

There's a rundown bar 'cross the railroad track / I got a table for two way in the back / Where I sit alone, and think of losing you

thinks about kevin and sean having their degrees of feeling alone at this point. sean's always had a little bit of a thing for dan (not to mention kevin flirting with sean nigh all the time- note that kevin's only had to pay for one drink), and while kevin may be. erm. Physically Intimate (this is a pg-13 blog) with dan,he also wants more. its that disconnect that him and dan has that feels a mile long. Now. see the chorus:

Now if you lose your one and only, / There's always room here for the lonely

well hey. look at that. some of the loneliest guys in aurora sitting next to each other in a bar sharing a bottle of whiskey. they're friends, sure, but in that moment (ch 16), they recognize that they both can be more than that. to each other, and to dan. theres always room here for the lonely.

~~~~

And here’s mine (Emma here!) of STRIKE 3 by Ferry

This song is where the lyric in the fic's description comes from; it’s one from the PMV series Parties Are For Losers. You don��t need to watch the series to get the gist of the song (it is really good though!) but within the context of the narrative, the singer is voicing their frustrations as they desperately try to help those they care about who keep putting themselves in harms way. “You spin the barrel of a fully loaded gun” is just a fancy way of saying “STOP BEING RECKLESS!!!” because, y’know, it’d be a literal death sentence to play roulette if the gun is fully loaded...

In terms of 5r6c… well, one of the fics' central themes IS protecting the people you love. Dan continuously worries about what life Daithi and Brian had before this that made them criminals, and Sean and Kevin are protective of Dan, thinking Daithi and Brian are dangerous in arc 1, and suspicious of Spiff in arc 2. Here’s a bit from the first chorus…

"If there's no winning, might as well just have some fun." I want to scream, when will you get it through your skull that I will not let you drown? "The light is gone, the thought keeps running through your mind, but fearing life is easier than fighting, right?" Oh please, just hide behind this back of mine and save your helpless spite.

Which is peak sheriff’s office argument back in chapter 7...

I also really like the first verse relating to Daithi and Brian in the gang.

Channeling love through the fear of being torn apart by crowds of your barbarian peers. The human filth around us wants to trample all that is dear under the guise of watchful reason.

We learn from…pretty much every time one of them brings up Evan that it is NOT a very happy place to be, particularly in Brian’s POV of chapter 9.

Lastly, we have the pre-chorus.

A thousand years ago, it was a tepid autumn day. A lock has sealed this door— But no more.

If you recall in chapter 16, we learn the raid on the farm where Dan’s family died was in the fall (not directly, Dan always visits the bar on the anniversary and Sean makes the connection himself…but anyway)

...this is because ding ding ding of this song!

Unfortunately I can’t really talk about the last chorus and outro without SPOILING EVERYTHING so you’ll just have to guess from there ;>

~~~

Hopefully that's some food for thought! Honestly we COULD go over every song on the playlist but then this ask would be WAY too long. Just really quick: Hell's Comin' With Me is a HUUUUGE full story song but I really can’t say who it's about without giving away everything, Ambrosia Wine is the Kiwo/Mango dynamic, and Devil's Train (not on Spotify but would be on the playlist if it was) is gonna fit really well for the next few chapters!

[bookfandomtalk]

It took me a while, but I think I finally figured out how Wilbur's fic could fit into canon if acted out better than it was written. (A.k.a., the events still play out the same, but it isn't ooc as hell for Tubbo)

read Wilbur's written story here (https://archiveofourown.org/works/36682660)

It all starts at this segment. Ranboo yells at Tubbo for Tubbo saying that he doesn't trust Wilbur with the horse. The entire segment before this one felt incredibly OOC for the dialogue, and it was clear that cc!Tubbo hadn't been involved in writing that, but it still happened, so I guess we'll have to deal.

“Tubbo!” he snapped “For God’s sake, just give him a chance! I know that I haven’t always made the best decisions with who I trust but this time I swear to you that things may not always be as bad as you think! I mean, People change, people get better and if you never give them a chance to prove it you’ll be stuck hating everyone that has ever wronged you and you won’t have anyone left...” A silence fell over the two. Tubbo’s eyes began to wet and he quickly turned around and walked away.

I can believe that Tubbo would take the verbal abuse. He has a history of getting verbally abused by Schlatt, so that might bring up some memories. But... Tubbo isn't the type to walk away crying. Especially not when the person yelling is Ranboo.

We can still rationalize it though. Tubbo would probably take this to mean that Ranboo has truly chosen Wilbur over him. That the one person he ever opened up to decided to choose someone else almost immediately afterward. He'd still care about Ranboo, but he would believe that Ranboo doesn't care as much about him. Because why else would Ranboo yell at him?

Ranboo felt sick

And clearly, Ranboo realized what he'd done at least in some part also.

But then, when Wilbur and Ranboo come back to Quackity. Tubbo hasn't informed Quackity about what was going on. We later learn this was because Tubbo decided to rescue the horse himself. This, again, confuses me.

Tubbo is canonically a nuclear scientist and a veteran of war. He survived the war with Dream, and he fought alongside Wilbur. There's no way he would have walked up to that horse and not realized that it was a trap.

Either Tubbo was overconfident, and he thought he'd be able to outsmart the trap, or he wanted to die.

We know for a fact that Tubbo already was suicidal, so the second one isn't that much of a stretch. But what then? He's on the pressure plate, and he realized he didn't truly want to die? But Tubbo is smart, and more importantly, he knows that he's smart. He had to have known that if he couldn't get off safely, Ranboo wouldn't be able to either.

But... If Tubbo thought that Ranboo had stopped picking him first, if he thought that Ranboo wouldn't care about him that much, then why would he ever think Ranboo would sacrifice his life for Tubbo?

Until Tubbo stepped off the plate and moved away, and saw Ranboo smiling at him.

Without hesitation Tubbo scrambled towards the ladder connecting the cavern to the viewing platform and climbed it. He turned back to look at Ranboo who smiled at him with the kind eyes he remembered. Tubbo smiled back.

Once Tubbo had ascended the ladder and curled up in the corner Ranboo began to shout.

I still hate this segment, but what if "With the kind eyes he remembered" it meant that Tubbo saw that Ranboo absolutely did still care about Tubbo. And what if Tubbo now realized what Ranboo was doing?

Because then Tubbo would look back, realize that it was too late to try to save Ranboo, and smile at him assuringly "It's okay" because there was nothing else he could do.

The curling up moment would in that case just be him accepting that he wouldn't be able to save his husband from the loss of a canon life. A life that would be lost to an explosion, just like Tubbo's own second life. Even if Tubbo didn't yet know that it was Ranboo's second life that was lost, and not his first.

He'd realize that later, when Technoblade would show up at his house, to ask about a piglin child names Michael, a child that was supposed to be safe from all this conflict.

[businessbois]

Eret: “The Final Control Room.”

Fundy and Tubbo: “What?”

Tommy: “What does this button do?” [presses the button]

-

i think it’s interesting that this little thing, both insignificant and incredibly huge gets remembered incorrectly. i don’t even know if it matters. and maybe it’s because nobody else in that room was paying attention, maybe it’s because it’s a detail that got lost in everything that came next, maybe it’s because of the animatic, but this is what happened. a lot of viewers and even the cc’s will say that eret pressed the button. history says that eret pressed that button. i don’t even know if tommy or eret remember. but eret didn’t press the button, tommy did.

[venetapsi]

one of my favorite headcanons is that Tommy and Wilbur meet for the first time when Wilbur joins the server. And so for a while Tommy is just the chaotic kid who occasionally noses in and antagonizes Wilbur and Wilbur is just a Guy doing his vans and potions. And then I guess Wilbur just takes enough of a liking to Tommy to bring him in on the whole potion scheme, to seek him out and actively involve him. And then by the time L'Manberg is actually established, they're properly close. Wilbur is more than the mysterious guy tommy wanted to bother and Tommy is more than just a bratty kid running around being too loud with some sticks. They're friends. They shared ideas and jokes and even like each other's company. And then there's a war and it's solidified. Tommy sees Wil as a mentor, a leader, an inspiration. Wilbur thrives on Tommy's energy, his loyalty, his optimism. They're almost mentor-student, almost brothers, almost like a strange father and son, but not quite any of those. So they stick with friends. But I just love to picture the slow build of a relationship from nothing and strangers to that complex ambiguity of what L'manberg makes them. Character analysis my beloved.

hey tumblr hey tumblr i am having a day (/neg) anyone wanna send good vibes my way in the form of ur headcanons about dsmp characters so i can read them and go :)

[grand-theft-grotto]

Why Ranboo Jumped

It was never about the burgers, was it? No, of course it wasn't. He just asked to see the strength with which Wilbur would defend it. If he actually believed it.

If it wasn't about actually putting a dent into Quackity - of course it wasn't actually about healthy competition, Ranboo had known that for a while, but decided that the kind thing to do would be to go along so at least Will would have some companionship to maybe bring him somewhere better -, if it wasn't about what hurting Quackity would do to help the consumer...

This was not about helping anyone.

He wasn't even quite sure it was about helping Wilbur.

He had been trying to tell Will as much, and then was always stopped by the words and pretty ideals the leader constructed so well, so Ranboo almost stopped doubting him.

Then seeing Quackity /stop/ him from breaking the glass, then Wilbur fighting for the rock, both of them focused on the other as though by gravity, ready to pry the other open into bloody halves so he wouldn't be the one who had saved Ranboo, just so that the credit could not go to the alternate side of the coin.. Ranboo knew he wasn't strong enough to go up against them.

They believed their claims with such strength, such fire (if not the things they said out loud then in the reasons saying them was the right thing). And neither could admit, even to their own selves, that this was not about what they claimed it was about.

Just like the whole world.

Ranboo was confident of nothing at that level. He would like to pick something to defend but look at what happened to these two... Look at the danger they had allowed. At blood. And more of it. The one who believed in kindness couldn't go with them and he couldn't side with the other. He couldn't just walk away.

(Because kindness, like poison, was an irrevocable part of him, and to remove it would be like taking away a sword lodged deep within, it was too essential.) Because what if they got better? They were two Shrödinger's men, and wasn't there a chance they would get better? Shouldn't they have the chance?

Maybe he would teach them a lesson. If he could do nothing on this server that harmed someone else, and he couldn't follow either one in his delusions, then maybe he could at least make a difference as a martyr.

So he drew both of their attention down to the pit that Wilbur had made. For once, on just this one plea, there was no pause of doubt.

He jumped.

🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎇🎇

(When Wilbur felt alive then, he felt the other half of it, the non-euphoric-striving-getting-loving part, a /stillness/ which he had abandoned.

For a moment, he was in ecstasy at being able to feel such guilt. And then the ecstasy ended.

How does it feel, to have a mind unburdened by embarrassment?)

[ithinkdogshouldvote2]

c!Quackitys biggest losses have been fuelled by wrath

c!Wilburs biggest losses have been fuelled by pride

[raspberryberyl]

Dsmp lore thoughts “The Wilbur Van” 1/26

Ok, it’s been a while now, School is busy and I’ve had a bit of burn out, but I’m finally got time to write my thoughts on the dsmp lore “The Wilbur Van” aka “Hitting on 16″ by Wilbur soot.

Another post of me trying to go over just the important thoughts I have, and not narrating everything they do.

edit: know that I’ve been writing this since it first came out, so everything here is said with me having not now seen the newest Wilbur lore from 3/15/22

If you weren’t aware, this is a written/literature style lore. Written by cc!Wilbur soot with approval from all the other respective content creators involved. It is posted on Ao3, and Wilbur also streamed reading it on his twitch channel.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/36682660

Some people may have said “Why couldn’t they do these streams?” “Why don’t they don’t they just do them now?” “Just make then flashbacks.”  Well the answers to those questions is that they were intend to be streams, but the creators were having issues all being free to do the lore together. So time passed and with still no progress and them all being respectively busy, they signed off for it to be written. Yes they could try to pick it up now, or do flashbacks, but that still leaves the issue of them all having time to stream together, and simply they decided this alterative would be fun.

It is something really cool about having the lore in this medium, offering us more descriptive scenes and things that we wouldn't normally be able to have in minecraft. And as Wilbur said, this medium of doing lore, is just as valid as any stream lore, and he commends our amazing writers in this fandom.

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So before the stuff really starts, we are given this

 “The following story is an adaptation of the scripts of 4 streams intended for production on the Dream SMP. Due to all 4 scripts being written before Ranboo’s death it is best to take this story as being in it’s own timeline that is respective of the character of Wilbur Soot. The actors have signed off that the actions taken by the characters in this story are accurate and representative. It is up to audience interpretation which timeline is canon to the greater storyline. For all future lore based around Wilbur, this is canon.”

- So first off yes, all this was supposed to take place before the prison break. But they never found time. Also if you didn’t know, the prison break has basically all been planned out since January 2021, and they were just awaiting when to do it. The reason that they ended up doing in November 28th was because cc!Technoblade was about to go into surgery, so they wanted get it done before he possible lost an arm. Because of this it was a sudden plan and some people were not informed of the prison break date, and others could not show. Examples are Eret and Puffy were busy. Wilbur was not aware it was happening.

- Wilbur call this ‘it’s own timeline’ which is confusing. This leads us to ask what it was that made this possibly ‘another timeline’?. Presumable it was c!Ranboo’s death. Now I will go into that more later once we approach that part of the story, but as for myself I am viewing these as the same timelines until something really counter acts that. But if this was planned for a while, there should be no reason for anything to interfere with it being cannon.

- Viewing these as separate timelines puts the audience against each other a bit battling for what is and isn’t cannon, and makes it harder to keep track off. We can only wait and see for how this will be addressed in the future. If there is going to be something that really splits these ‘timelines’ apart.

_________________________

Ok now into the actual thoughts on the content.

- For my own perspective, I am viewing this to all take place sometime before “The visit” which is the Quackity event where Techo escaped prison, which then led into Charlie’s death. Due to Quackity’s current characterization in this work, it is best to view it as taking place before Charlie died and Quackity started talking his lessons to heart.

- Once again I must say how cool it is the get the perspective of a stream in this medium. Through writing Wilbur is able to offer us elements such as c!wilbur smoking, there being scorpions, the elegant shift and switch between scenes and intermediate dialogue. This sort of dialogue and intermediate scenes could be found in something like cc!Quackity’s movie streams, but this written medium was the best way for us to get this sorta thing from cc!wilbur. 

- The characterization in this work is very well done. Of course all the creators signed off and said this is accurate, but there were a few odd times where I felt c!Tubbo and c!Ranboo were displayed unexpectedly. Well come back to those. Tommy was not all too involved, but for where he was he felt accurate. And I liked how he felt the courage to actually speak his thoughts and feeling to Wil. His doubts.

- The story opens and tells us of Tommy and Wilbur together. They are building a road to the Ranvan, trying to attract customers. This building of the road also tells us what all that stone Wilbur told Tommy to collect was for.

- Now the main point of what Wilbur’s is doing, is he is trying to be competitive, and get Quackity’s attention. He wants to one-up Quackity, and likes that Quackity still treats him human. While others view him as dead, or a terrorist, Quackity views him like a living rival, and Wilbur likes that. He wants more of that, and so continues to bother Quackity. Quackity on his end, also enjoys the competition, and the opportunity to prove he is better than Wilbur, that he is a good president.

- Through out this work Wilbur tells us about things like, his beating heart, making him feel alive, and so he wishes to do more of these things. Sorta like how Tommy did not like being reminded he died, Wilbur also doesn’t seem to enjoy it, but is more focused on doing whatever he can to feel alive now. But as we learn at the end of this work, feeling alive isn’t always positive. Pain can make you feel alive, having to watch tragedy go done, can make you feel alive. The alive feeling of fear and terror, to burn, are not preferable and pleasant feelings. That is Wilbur’s lesson in this story. To not be so carless and mindlessly do things just to get attention and ‘feel alive’. You need to think through your actions and consider the consequences, before things go south, someone gets hurt.

- Next I’d like to address Wilbur’s distaste and insulting feeling of Quackity offering him Vice president.

“ “That’s what you brought me here for?” Wilbur replied shakily, trying to contain his rage, “you deem me a vice president?” “I deem you a qualified leader, yes.” Quackity replied calmly. “Do you understand how insulting your charity attempt is?” “I don’t think it’s insulting. Don’t forget I was once a vice president.” Quackity chuckled. “Yeah, well I couldn’t stoop that low.” Wilbur slammed his fist on the table and stood up. “

So Wilbur considers the role of vice president to be demeaning, and insulting. Is this the case for any role lower than the leader? Or is his distaste simply for the role of the Vice? The second in command. Wilbur will accept ruling part of Quackity’s land, even if not all, but he will not accept the role besides Q as his vice.

This really makes me want to look back to the L’manburg and Pogtopia days. Where Wilbur was constantly berating and yelling at Tommy that he’d never be president, and that he was only fit to be vice. Is this how he viewed Tommy then? When he said these words did he mean them to be ruder than they already were. If President is such an honor, and Vice is the lowest of the low, then what does this mean for Tommy? Before they were exiled Tommy was Wilbur’s vice, Wilbur seemed to trust and respect him, leading me to question did he see the seat being that low before? When did he start seeing ‘Vice’ as such an insulting position, and how does his treatment to Tommy correlate to that.

Sticking to the subject of Tommy, lets examine these lines. Tommy is asking Wilbur why they are stealing Quackity’s horse, how Wilbur knows this is a good plan.

“But how do you know this for sure?” Tommy asked “I just do.” Wilbur answered, a little more sharply than usual. “But you’ve said stuff like this before and it wasn’t true. You’ve got a bit of a track record of lying.” Tommy said “I have never lied to you.” Wilbur spoke firmly. The atmosphere of fun and whimsy quickly drained from the room. “I mean…” Tommy began, “That’s not true. I’ve had so many people lie to me including you.” Wilbur shook his head, “I’ve never lied to you.” “What about the pit? What about the stuff you said about Tubbo betraying us in L’Manberg? what about when you said no-one would hurt Tubbo?” Wilbur lifted his mask “If I truly believed it was the truth, does that make me a liar?” Tommy thought for a moment. “Well, not exactly but-” “That’s the difference between me and Schlatt. That’s the difference between me and Phil. That’s the difference between me and Quackity.” The sparks had stopped flying so it was impossible to make out Wilbur’s facial expressions as he spoke. “I have never lied to you. I have been wrong but never lied to you, Tommy. I won’t lie to you. Do you trust me, Tommy? ‘Cos right now I feel like you don’t trust me.” These words Wilbur spoke, these words that had calmed the strongest men and built entire nations had no effect on Tommy anymore. They just made him a little frightened. Tommy had heard Wilbur speak like this many times but it never got easier. He felt he had done something wrong simply by posing his point of view and he felt like the antagonist when all he wanted was an answer. “I trust you Wilbur.” He said quietly.

Now I also really like this writing because it lays out characters thoughts and feelings a little easier and clearer for us. Look guys, cc!Wilbur has called his character a villain, and how he choses to express and present his character is more proof. Wilbur is manipulative and gaslightly to Tommy, there is no denying it. He isn’t as bad as some people present him as, he does care for Tommy, but it’s not entirely healthy. (c!Dream says in one of the Sam prison streams how he brought Wilbur back for the reason of him being an issue for Tommy.) Despite their past, Tommy does care for Wil, as he told Foolish, you need to give the person the chance, and not give up on them. So despite how Wilbur may treat him, Tommy is not going to give up or let go, and he is going to try to trust him, no matter how much he doesn't want to.

Wilbur says he has never lied to Tommy. If we are to believe this then lets think about all the crazy rambling he had in Pogtopia, how he constantly belittled Tommy, him saying Tommy would never be president. So ok that wasn’t an assumption or idea on his part, he believed to a truth that Tommy was not cut out to be president. 

We also see evidence of Wilbur’s persuasion with Ranboo. (I like how he calls him Ranbus, endearing, but what if it’s another trap?) Ranboo does not want to steal Quackity’s horse, but Wilbur continues to tell him it’s for the greater good until Ranboo caves.

Ranboo had his reservations and debated declining Wilbur’s offer but Wilbur persisted by playing on the concept of the greater good. For how else would they topple the obelisk of tyranny if they didn’t start at the foundations? After all, it was a tame heist all things considered and Ranboo would do well for his job prospects to accept. In this hollow fact Ranboo found himself an accomplice once more.

So Wilbur and Ranboo carry out the heist and kidnapping. Tubbo does encounter them though and ask what they are doing. 

“Big Q told me to take care of that horse.” Tubbo replied, “I’ve been feeding him every day.” “Well, he’s in safe hands.” Ranboo lied. “We’re gonna hold him ransom but you know Wilbur would never hurt it. He’s too soft.” “No he’s not.” Tubbo blurted, a tremble in his voice. “Bring the horse back. Now.” “No, Tubbo.” Ranboo said, trying to be firm. Tubbo, unperturbed by Ranboo’s stature over him, dropped his cleaning rag. “You’re gonna end up hurting him. Even if you don’t intend to, you will. Wilbur always hurts innocent things and it’s not fair. The horse did nothing wrong.” Ranboo didn’t respond. He just stood there, slightly hunched staring down at the boy. “Ranboo, make him bring the horse back.” Tubbo begged quietly, his voice sounding trembly, diminished and tired. “No, Tubbo.” “I’m gonna have to tell Big Q” “Don’t tell Big Q. Tubbo, It’s for the greater good.” Tubbo felt his rage build up inside him, “Nothing Wilbur does is for the greater good! He takes and he takes and everything is his own little mission of revenge. Can’t you see? He’s made you think you and him are alike but you’re not. Ranboo, you’re better than this I-” Ranboo felt the fuse inside him finally reach it’s payload. “Tubbo!” he snapped “For God’s sake, just give him a chance! I know that I haven’t always made the best decisions with who I trust but this time I swear to you that things may not always be as bad as you think! I mean, People change, people get better and if you never give them a chance to prove it you’ll be stuck hating everyone that has ever wronged you and you won’t have anyone left...” A silence fell over the two. Tubbo’s eyes began to wet and he quickly turned around and walked away. Down the hill Wilbur cheered and lit up another cigarette “Atta boy, Ranbus!” he gloated. Ranboo felt sick.

Now what surprised me about this was really just Ranboo saying no to Tubbo. He snapped at Tubbo, that was unexpected. He felt guilty afterwards, but the act of saying no really surprised me, and made me question if this felt believable to what we know about c!Ranboo. Overall it works, it makes me think that maybe after their last conversation about the cookie-outpost, Ranboo is still upset and holding some resentment. (Happy to know that wasn’t the last Beeduo conversation before Ranboo’s death) His outburst is also towards himself, his fear that once again he is choosing to trust the wrong person. He wants to give Wilbur the chance but is afraid for how it will backfire.

--

The next thing I want to bring up is sorta/mostly my interpretation: The tension in beeduo and having not yet made up about the cookie outpost.  It is of my opinion and my interpretation that after Ranboo left Tubbo at the end of the one stream to ‘get rid of the bad bread’ Beeduo did not bring back up the argument or how Tubbo said Quackity was giving him the chance he needed to finally be happy. I believe Ranboo would keep his thoughts and feelings to himself so as to not upset and make things worse with Tubbo. I don’t think he would or has talked to tubbo about it by this point. They just returned to their conversations and hanging out like nothing happened. Then there’s Ranboo taking Wilbur’s side when one of the reasons Tubbo is here in Las Nevadas was to try to over watch and spite wilbur. How now that Ranboo has taken and trusted wilbur, tubbo wants to prove it to Ranboo too.

Next some more with characterization:

- I saw several people discussing if they thought this lore was in character with c!Tubbo or not. Many people saying this felt more like early tubbo than our current Tubbo, he feels more childish. I feel the main reason for this being the playful voice cc!Wilbur put on when reading the story, and how lots of Tubbo’s scenes are either sweet with Ranboo or like the tnt scene where he needed saving. 

That scene in of it’s self needs discussing. Because me and many others agree that c!Tubbo to be very smart, he knows redstone, he’s made nukes, he knows tnt, so he should have known and understood the trap based on how it is described. The tnt is not hidden, it is out in the open so Quackity would see it. I have seen seveal theories or ideas for why Tubbo acted the way he did in the tnt trap. First, some people think he really did just not bother to look around and just rushed in to retrive the horse without thinking, then getting stuck. Some people say he went in wanting to do what Ranboo ended up doing, but then got scared/overwhelmed, stuck in a flashback (which could also explain his behavior in either of the other senecios). Some people bring out the fact that we know c!Tubbo may have some not great thoughts about dying and wanting to be free of the troubles, so went down there not caring if he lived or died, just wanting to stop Wilbur. While other people say he went down there to die and then changed his mind.

This also has Tubbo crying early in the story, when the Tubbo we know is very much denial don’t show your feelings, keep it inside to yourself, emotions can be weakness. My main thought was that maybe Tubbo just didn’t expect this sort of thing from Ranboo (stealing the horse, working with Wilbur over him, saying no) one of the few he can trust.

- I haven’t had a whole lot to say about Quackity in this post, shocker right? But the last thing I’ll add about him is that yes c!Quackity is friends with and respects c!Tubbo, but he hired and made tubbuger to spite and egg-on wilbur. This was all about the rivalry to them, and thankfully they were snapped out of it.

- Now onto some Ranboo characterization, insights, and points. c!Ranboo is very self-sacrificing. He put’s other before himself. This may be because he feels guilt for the things he’s done though. In both instances where he’s died, he did so for his family. In this one he was taking responsibility for his actions, but also saving Tubbo. Ranboo chose to trust Wilbur and do this, asked Tubbo to trust him, so he’ll take responsibility. While taking responsibility he will get it in Wilbur and Quackity’s skulls how frivolous their spat is. Giving his life to prove a point. This is return of “wilbur felt alive” line, where Wilbur ‘felt alive’ but it’s not a good alive, it’s scared and sad, watching a friend die, and knowing it’s your fault.

Searing flames and a violent burst of air was all that was left. For a change, the world really did end.

Wilbur felt alive.

Onto that though, there was obviously a better way to defuse the bomb, but Ranboo chose to do it this way, to let the tnt go off. How about the chorus fruit teleport, is that cannon yet? I’m sure they could have found a rock, or actually defused it, so why? Was he thinking he might not die? 

Is this his second death. “For once the world did end” feels like a thing you’d say in a death. This where we encounter out issue. cc!Ranboo told us November 28th 2021 that his character has had 1 life all the way since January 2021, that presumably the prison death was planned that long, the only change being the added variable of Michael being the reason of death and being taken. so what are we to believe? Even if this was considered the possible way for his character to die, why not editing this writing a little to just not have him die? Why not just injure him, was it to add the extra guilt for Wilbur’s character, being responsible for Ranboo’s death? was it that important to the story? Or could wilbur be making his cannon about the non cannon deaths, and that they characters do in fact die without taking a cannon death, like cc!phil had told us it was, and so Ranboo yes died but it wasn’t cannon?  This is what is creating our issue with ‘timelines’ so why not just make it so it’s not an issue and change the writing? It must be for Wilbur’s character.

Until further explained I am going to assume this is Ranboo’s second cannon death and that he doesn’t remember the first.

I really liked the detail of how Ranboo made eye contact with Tubbo when Tubbo was exiting the tnt room. Very sweet.

Without hesitation Tubbo scrambled towards the ladder connecting the cavern to the viewing platform and climbed it. He turned back to look at Ranboo who smiled at him with the kind eyes he remembered. Tubbo smiled back.

And those are my main things I wanted to talk about from this novel instalment of lore :D Hope you enjoyed and once again sorry it took so long. 

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Question for you guys, do you want me to cover Geroge’s long crazy Dream destroying the sever lore from January? Or should I just focuse on the current stuff happening and maybe come back to that?

[lasnevadas]

WILVBUR CANT BE FUCKIN NORMAL CAN HE

[anywayilikebeees]

i think theres two contexts to analyse this act in

#1: that we treat deaths in the dsmp like we treat them in real life

or

#2: that we treat deaths in the dsmp as deaths are treated in the dsmp

And I don’t think either of these are wrong or that both can’t co-existe.

If u use #1 his death, while yes he has more, is still a death. It still hurts the same, still affects the people around you ( wilbur and the others will be ridden with guilt and grief). It isnt seen as a act of anything, simply that c!ranboo didnt want his husband to die and was willing to take his place. Him saying “I know what to do. I know how to defuse the bomb and make you realise how frivolous this whole thing is.” is seen as a poor justification for his act. c!Ranboo doesnt take side, he most def wont die just for a point. Because it would have been the same outcome if c!Tubbo had died ( hell it might have impacted them more, for the shear fact that W and Q have watched him grow up)

But

if you use #2 can be seen as slighty more meaningful. Maybe he was reasured with the thought that he still had 3 lives and would “survive” while c!Tubbo wouldnt since he had only 1. He saw the two outcomes and wanted one with Tubbo in it. And so, “I know what to do. I know how to defuse the bomb and make you realise how frivolous this whole thing is.” starts to mean something slighty different, I still think this was an attemp to lighten the situation but with the 3 lives system he means it more. He is tired of the fighting and will do anything for it to end. With the dsmp it is hard to seperate canon and real life - but they do play by different rules. This doesnt mean that people in the dsmp are throwing around their lives for frivolous things, but that there is freedom in knowing u will come back. For exemple, c!tubbo death at the festival was to was a show of power, c!tubbo dying wasnt the real goal. Or what happen moments after, the fight in The Pit to death. Death wasnt the goal, solving a argument was. 

-

I agree that it is careless saying that it was his character finnaly growing a spine, because that completly takes away the meaning of his action. I think it is rather a highlight of what his limits are: his husband and closet friend being in a life or death situation. Hell I think it shows what we have always been told “he doesnt pick a side, he picks people” and that day he chose c!tubbo over himself.

^that holds truth in both #1 and #2 which is why I think they can both co-exist

i have. many thoughts about that ending.

[wasflypaw]

If we're gonna take early DSMP bits as full serious canon in analysis (glances at the Drug Van and the British vs Americans thing) does that mean c!Wilbur canonically flirted with c!Dream

[spatteringstars]

Alright, now that I can have *coherent thoughts* because what the actual fuck Wilbur Soot, my brain was melting, here are some genuine thoughts on the characters and lore :')

Spoilers for the Wilbur Soot finale btw if you couldn't tell

So- let's start with Wilbur (duh?). This entire apology arc has just been pain after pain leading to this and I love it as an author but I hate it as a fan because it makes me sad. Phil told him he needed to heal on his own even if people didn't forgive him... so he did. Fundy didn't forgive him and ran away to get away from him- Wilbur didn't forgive himself and ran away to save Tommy the pain of having to do it himself. Wilbur freed Tommy from Dream, then he freed his little brother from himself. Niki taught him that everyone deserves happiness, Wilbur went back to Utah to find it. Wilbur saw what it looked like when Tommy hated him, when he was unforgivable, and he decided he'd do anything to never see that again. "Never trust an American" - "Never trust me (we all heard that much. I'm not going to pretend its profound). Never trust me, I've showed you what happens when you trust me. You lose your lives, you loose me, and even if you loose nothing, I can make you believe you've lost everything." I would love to say that this had an impact on his character from the very creation of Lmanberg, but it started and ended with sillies so we're just gonna let them all be sillies and goddammit I need at least one thing to laugh about right now let me HAVE THIS.

He left to go find peace. He followed in Phil's footsteps, he left Tommy to watch as he took Wilbur away from him; he followed in Fundy's footsteps, he ran away. For all Wilbur preaches about himself being a leader and the only fit to be in positions of power, he sure as hell doesn't make his own paths. For all his bravado, Wilbur follows.

If this was the end of cTommy in the dsmp, I will be even more sad. If this is legitimately it for him, then I don't know how to possibly spin it into a happy ending for him. But I'm going to start my genuine analysis further back.

The start of the apology arc: do we all believe that Tommy didn't hear a single word of the advice Phil gave Wilbur? I don't. He was probably right outside the door listening in and finding a growing hope that his brother would realize his mistakes and then they could find happiness again. Together. That "Wilbur" as he stood outside the doorway was hopeful, expectant even. He was disappointed, but he's learned to not expect perfection from Wilbur so he sticks with him. Even if he has to wait, even if he, the one closest to Wilbur, is the last to receive an apology, he'll get to be happy with his big brother again.

Then the discs. Its something of a final straw. He wants to trust Wilbur. Even if he's hesitant, he still gives in and he trusts him. Then Wilbur threatens to destroy himself and he destroys the discs. He has attempted to burn two of Tommy's greatest treasures. But again, he wants to trust Wilbur, so he apologizes and Tommy forgives him. Again.

Wilbur takes him past where Boner was killed. Tommy hates it, this is where Ranboo lost a life because of him, where Wilbur lied and denied that he hurt Tommy. Wilbur acts like its a good thing. Tommy realizes that Wilbur still hasn't healed. This isn't the man who started the drug van with him. Wilbur tells him he's going far far away and the last time he saw him he was threatening to kill himself for Tommy's sake. What else is Tommy supposed to think? If he's leaving Tommy, then this has to be his apology because he wouldn't just not realize how much he hurt him right? Right? And if he's willing to go to that lengths for the discs, then why not for justice. Then he says he going to Utah. He's American, the reason they started L'manberg. It's all been a lie. He asks in the way he was taught by dream, hurt them, dig in where you know it hurts with your words, demand, and when words fail, use violence.

"I don't know why I did that... I didn't use to be this angry" You used to be a kid and in many ways you still are. You used to be happy, you used to trust, you used to know you were loved. And now Wilbur is trying to leave and that last bit of your childhood it starting to look further and further away Tommy.

AND THEN HE SAYS THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD! WHY CAN'T YOU EVER SAY SORRY. And then Wilbur says he's leaving because if someone doesn't fogive you you have to accept that and get out of their life because he doesn't believe Tommy could eve forgive him. And then we get the Utah reveal and the "it can't end like this" because how can everything that they've stuck together through and the death and pain they've endured, how can it all culminate in Wilbur running back to a gas station in Utah. And even as Wilbur says the discs and dream were an apology, he can't even say the words "I'm sorry in reference to it. Tommy tells him to forgive himself because maybe, just maybe, if they're still brothers bonded together, Wilbur will keep that part of his heart that is Tommy and he'll choose to stay.

Tommy gets his apology (I would kill to know what that book says) and they both laugh as Wilbur rows off into the sea towards Utah. But Tommy's laughs are choked with sobs that Wilbur doesn't hear over the sound of his coming freedom. And then he's gone and for the second time, Tommy has watched Wilbur leave. For the who even knows how many-th time, someone doesn't give Tommy the only thing he wants: For someone to stay and love him.

Wilbur's gone and Tommy is left on a beach (not Logstedshire this time) crying, alone, and in the rain. Exile broke Tommy because he was alone. Tommy is alone, so he breaks.

[transphilza]

hey there :-) idk how into lore u are, but i was wondering what u thought about this bc ive been trying to figure it out.

in hitting on 16, when cquackity asks for cwilbur's wisdom, cwilbur went from sinking on his chair to standing up and yelling, even "attacking" cquackity by referencing his scar ("...or a pickaxe?")

i'm writing an essay on their relationship and i was wondering why cwilbur seemed so defensive about cquackity's request. was he disappointed? was he hoping he'd say something else?

anyway, if this is too random im sorry, im just rambling and didnt know what blog to ask this ^^

lucky for you i am an insane c!wilburian! i am more than happy to analyze this for you

firstly, wilbur is just naturally defensive and argumentative when he’s around quackity cause he gets a kick out of arguing with him, so i’d imagine that’s why the conversation turned that direction in the first place, since it was already argumentative before that specific moment you mention. i think that specific part was just a natural escalation

the thing about cwilbur is that he always wants to feel in control of a situation, and this includes conversations, yeah? like, just before the part you mention, wilbur slams the keys to his van on the table and insists quackity take it from him, and this is because if he himself brings up the things he values being taken from him, then when they are, he feels more in control of the situation. “if you won’t hurt me then i’ll do it myself” is pretty much cwilburs Thing. if i initiate the argument then i will be in control of it and thus can’t be hurt by it, if i tell you to take something from me then it will hurt less when it’s gone, etc etc

so as for the part you mention, basically cwilbur was Already on the defensive and already anticipating quackity taking something from him, and so when quackity brought up wanting his wisdom and nothing else, wilbur was confused at the prospect of an interaction where nothing is taken from him and so he lashes out to feel more in control of the situation. he knows that quackity (and people in general) often have ulterior motives, and he’s a distrusting and paranoid sort of guy, so he becomes argumentative again because he feels the need to instigate in order to protect himself from being misled. he wasn’t disappointed so much as he was thrown off, and being confused is a bad feeling especially for cwilbur, who Hates feeling helpless.

also, in terms of their relationship, quackity is the person with more power and status, which is a dynamic wilbur is still very much not used to since being revived, which adds to why he’s so naturally defensive toward quackity. quackity is a wealthy president of a self-made nation, he’s in a similar position to how wilbur once viewed himself — that is, as a leader. so you can imagine it’s rather easy for wilbur to also project his insecurities about his past onto quackity (which i touched on in my poetry analysis too)

he likely feels condescended because of this power dynamic, which makes him angrier. so i’d say he lashes out at quackity on that personal level because he sees his past self in quackity and is angry at himself, he genuinely enjoys arguing with him and getting under his skin because the way quackity interacts with him makes him feel alive, and also because hurting someone else helps him feel more in control and in less danger of being hurt himself.

there you go there’s my super wordy and excessive cwilbur psychoanalysis ^_^ hope this helps!!! <3