#Théoden

[fantasyinallforms]

Tonight, we remember one who lent his enormous talent to telling the story we have all come to love. Hail, the victorious dead!

May the Simbelmynë cover his tomb as it did the tomb of the one he so accurately portrayed.

Bernard Hill Dec 17, 1944 - May 5, 2024

[autistook]

Rest in Peace, Bernard Hill 🤍🕊

[dindjarism]

REST IN PEACE, BERNARD HILL (1944–2024) THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (2003)

[from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras]

Bernard Hill said once that he came up with the line, “No parent should have to bury their child.” And, no, it’s not canonical, but it’s absolutely what the story needed. It’s what the character needed. Hell, it’s what we needed. It’s a better and more compelling and more relatable and more moving and more empathetic film for having that emotion expressed. It was such a simple idea, but such an important one. And we needed him to get it. May the simbelmynë always bloom on your place of rest, Mr. Hill.

[dagordagorath]

For he was a gentle heart and a great king and kept his oaths; and he rose out of the shadows to a last fair morning.

[nathsketch]

Extremely sad news today with the passing of our beloved Bernard Hill.

“Arise!! Arise, Riders of Théoden!”

“The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep one last time.”

He will go to his fathers. And even in their mighty company he shall not now be ashamed. 🗡️🐴👑

Forth, Eorlingas!!

[camille-lachenille]

Here’s my little homage to Bernard Hill, who will always be Théoden King in my heart.

Not my best work nor the best pic but it’s late, I have a hellish headache and I wanted to finish this little calligraphy piece today.

[itgrowsperhapsthegreater]

Brought to you by this post

[hail-theoden-king]

[monkeyscomics]

Théoden, King of Rohan.

Never thought I would draw Théoden.

Watched the battle scenes again.

I must try to do a drawing with the time I have.

R.I.P Bernard Hill

[thranduilofsmirkwood]

𝕬𝖓𝖈𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖙 𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝕽𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖘 𝕸𝖊𝖒𝖊𝖘 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖑𝖑 𝖒𝖆𝖐𝖊 𝖒𝖊 𝖑𝖒𝖋𝖆𝖔

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[anghraine]

Another Tolkien rant before I (finally!!) go back to BG3:

By and large, heredity and ethnicity in Tolkien cannot be understood through blood quantum logic. I don't think this is even seriously debatable, really—it does not work.

Yes, Imrahil of Dol Amroth is many generations removed from his nearest Elvish ancestor. Yes, he's still visibly part-Silvan to someone like Legolas, and is Silvan-style pretty to everyone else, and his sister was mystically susceptible to Mordor's miasma and died of sea-longing.

Yes, Théoden has as much Númenórean ancestry as Eldacar, a literal Númenórean King of Gondor, and has the same Elvish ancestor as Imrahil. No, Théoden is not a Dúnadan and does not inherit Silvan features. Tolkien specifically contrasted the visible Silvan Elvish heritage of Imrahil and his nephews Boromir and Faramir with Théoden and Éomer's lack of them, though in some versions, Éomer inherited remarkable height from his Númenórean ancestry (but not specifically Elvish qualities like beardlessness).

The only known member of the House of Eorl to markedly inherit the distinctive Elvish appearance of the House of Dol Amroth is Elfwinë, son of Imrahil's daughter Lothíriel as well as of Éomer, and Elfwinë's appearance is attributed firmly to Lothíriel-Imrahil rather than Théodwyn-Morwen.

Aragorn and Denethor are descendants of Elendil removed by dozens of generations, and Elendil himself was many generations removed from Elros. Aragorn and Denethor's common heritage and special status results in a strong resemblance and kinship between these incredibly distant cousins, including innate beardlessness and various powers inherited from Lúthien, and a connection to the Maiar presumably derived from Lúthien's mother Melian (great-great-grandmother of their very distant ancestor Elros).

Galadriel has one Noldo grandparent (half as much Noldorin heritage as Théoden has Númenórean). She has ties to her Telerin and Vanyarin kin and inherits some of their traits (most notably her silvery-gold hair), but she is very fundamentally a Noldo.

Túrin Turambar is a member—and indeed, heir—of the House of Hador via patrilineality. However, he's strongly coded as Bëorian in every other way because of his powerful resemblance to his very Bëorian mother, while his sister Niënor is the reverse, identified strongly with Hadorian women and linked to their father, whom she never met.

Elrond and Elros have more Elvish heritage than anything else, but are defined as half-Elves regardless of choosing mortality or immortality. In The Nature of Middle-earth, Tolkien casually drops the bombshell that Elros's children with his presumably mortal partner also received a choice of mortality vs immortality (and then in true Tolkien style, breezed onto other, less interesting points). Elrond and his sons with fully Elvish Celebrían are referred to as Númenóreans as well as Elves, with Elladan and Elrohir scrupulously excluded from being classed as Elves on multiple occasions. Their sister Arwen, meanwhile, is a half-Elf regardless of how much literal mortal heritage she has but also is identified with the Eldar in a way they never are.

There's a letter that Tolkien received in which a fan asks how Aragorn, a descendant of Fíriel of Gondor, could be considered of pure Númenórean ancestry when Fíriel was a descendant of Eldacar, the "impure" king whose maternal heritage kicked off the Kinstrife. Tolkien's response is essentially a polite eyeroll (and understandably for sure), but it's not like ancestry that remote (or far more so) doesn't regularly linger.

The point, I guess, is that there's no hard and fast rule here that determines "real" ethnicity in Middle-earth or who inherits what narrative identification. It's clearly not dependent on purebloodedness (gross rhetoric anyway, but also can't be reconciled with ... like, anything we see). It's not based on upbringing or culture alone. Túrin and Niënor, for instance, are powerfully identified with the Edain narratively despite their upbringings. Their double cousin Tuor, however, is a more ambiguous figure in terms of the Elves, whom he loves and lives among and possibly even joins in immortality—yet Tuor's half-Elf son Eärendil, whose cultural background is overwhelmingly Elvish, is naturally aligned with Men and only chooses immortality for his wife's sake.

Elladan and Elrohir, as mentioned above, are sons of an Elf, Celebrían, and of Elrond, a half-Elf who chose immortality and established a largely Elvish community at Rivendell. But the twins have a centuries-long affinity with their mortal Dúnadan kin and delay choosing a kindred to be counted among long after Arwen's choice.

Patrilineal heritages are more often than not given priority, which has nothing to do with how much of X blood someone has, only which side it comes from. Queen Morwen's children and descendants are emphatically Rohirrim who don't ping Legolas's Elvishness radar (though Elfwinë might, later on; we're not told). King Eldacar is firmly treated as a Dúnadan with no shortening of lifespan or signs of Northern heritage. Finwë's children and grandchildren are definitionally Noldor.

But this is by no means absolutely the case. The Elvishness of the line of Dol Amroth is not only inherited from Mithrellas, a woman, but passes to some extent to Boromir and Faramir through their mother Finduilas. Denethor and Aragorn's descent from Elros primarily comes through Silmariën, a woman (and also through Rían daughter of Barahir and Morwen daughter of Belecthor for Denethor, and Fíriel daughter of Ondoher for Aragorn). And of course, Elros's part-Maia heritage that lingers among his descendants for thousands of years derives from women, Lúthien and Melian.

So there's not some straightforward system or rule that will tell you when a near or remote ancestor "matters" when it comes to determining a character's identity, either to the character or to how they're handled by the narrative. Sometimes a single grandparent, or great-grandparent, or more distant ancestor, is fundamental to how a character is treated by the story and understands themself. Sometimes a character is so completely identified with one parent that the entire other half of their heritage is negligible to how they're framed by the story and see themself. It depends!

[autistook]

Bernard Hill

1944 - 2024

[cilil]

Headcanon: Oromë personally welcomed Théoden when he came to Mandos and bid him farewell when he went beyond the world. He was so proud of him

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

Share this so I can get more opinions!

[dagordagorath]

15 March: The Battle of the Pelennor Fields