#Some are Jewish some are Muslim some are Pagan

[indecisiveavocado]

it'd be a shame if echocath wasn't catholic though, I thought I'd found some actual genuine christian religious antisemitism and got all excited about it. You don't see it in the wild much, at least not where I look on Tumblr.

And yeah STA isn't ethnically Jewish except mayyybe Elizabeth-Warren-style "Native American" a bazillion generations back or so.

Unrelatedly have you found any antisemites of whatever alleged religion that aren't Christian/Muslim/depending-on-your-view-atheist/pagan/"Jewish"? Just for once I'd like them to fake being Zoroastrian or something. It'd make it more interesting.

Now, we all know that Echocathunity is an antisemite who spams Jewish tags. However, I think a post of theirs I've just seen while scrolling through the Jumblr tag reveals interesting points. Feel free to not publish this because G-d knows how much we've seen about them lately.

Anyway, attached are screenshots of said post:

Apologies for not adding a description, I blocked and reported them before thinking of copying the text. Either way, they seem to imply here that their issue is somehow that the old Christian Jew-hate is called antisemitism, while they condemn the Nazi racist antisemitism. Joined with their post about the Talmud, it seems likely that they're a traditionalist religious Jew-hater, possibly one who at least thinks they're not racist in the process. You'd have thought that such sentiments have died, but considering that there were instances of deicide accusations on tumblr I suppose there's no reason to believe that. Though I don't think it's on the bingo card.

this actually just good old victim blaming. I am convinced this is a sockpuppet of STA as they use identical rhetoric and act like a bot and this account appeared the DAY the Iran-Israel war started

[v-tired-queer]

*Veiling = covering your head/hair, usually in an act of devotion to a higher power, but not always. Some people veil every day, some only veil every once in a while, and some only veil on specific days/occasions. Some people veil for religious reasons, some for spiritual reasons, and some for cultural reasons. No matter your reason for doing so, if you're sapphic and also veil, please feel free to answer!

For me, I'm usually not thinking much about it. I happen to be a sapphic, and I also happen to veil for religious and spiritual reasons. But sometimes there's this very rude little voice in the back of my head that tells me I can't possibly be both a lesbian and someone who veils, and that I have to either stop veiling all together or marry a man one day and keep veiling. It's a struggle between feeling like I'm either betraying my God by being a lesbian (I'm not), or I'm betraying my sapphic community by being religious and actually acting on it (again, I'm not). 97% of the time, I don't even question myself, comfortable and confident as the demiflux lesbian God made me to be, but that 3% of the time that I'm struggling with it, I've noticed that having my veil on, though usually a comfort for me, a constant reminder that God's love surrounds me wherever I go, can trigger some guilty feelings. Hence the poll.

So, what about y'all?

[kick-a-long]

I just want to clarify that this is a good faith question as I am not Jewish and I don’t have a great grasp on what sources may pass the sniff these on this but. What are the issues with Jewish Voice for Peace? I don’t know a lot about the org.

Thanks for asking! I’m not the best source but I can give you a few outline ideas. TLDR? Huge race faking assholes. Real prices of white washing terrorism shit. It’s actually fun to learn about because they really twist and lie about us and it’s a really good opportunity to learn what is and isn’t true. Obviously Jews and Israel isn’t perfect so you often have to check the more plausible claims but even those are usually wildly wrong and exaggerated. It’s tough.

We hate JVP because:

Almost no Jews in it yet they constantly say they represent Jews and token themselves to excuse other hate group’s antisemitism and calls for violence. They are deeply antisemitic and promote misinformation and violence against Jews themselves tho so don’t think they are just a shield. The Jews in it are either totally disconnected from Judaism, both religious and cultural (they promote self conversion to Judaism using a tea cup baptism type thing and various pagan rituals both of which are an ABSOLUTE no go in all forms of Judaism. They don’t publish their membership so it’s impossible to know how many actual Jews are in it) or they are this one insane antizionist religious sect that dress like Orthodox Jews but are basically the most fringe racist pieces of shit antizionists alive who think all other Jews aren’t Jewish enough and deserve to be killed with all the non Jews (they are also just racist against non Jews and Jews that aren’t in their sect as well as homophobic I believe.)

They are as much an anti Jewish hate group as something like the black Hebrew Israelites and Jews for Jesus.

Jews have a hard time with fake Jewish organizations because antisemites and philosemites outnumber us by probably 10 to one. And they don’t even try to learn from us they just put a Jew sticker on their Christian or Muslim bs and say all actual jews should be killed for eating babies.

Here’s some screenshots from the article I linked. I’m too tired to copy paste and format it.

They also rewrite and promote interpretations of holidays that are Jewish to ignore Jewish history and beliefs and replace it with Palestinians. They object to Jews praying or speaking in Hebrew as offensive to Arabs, and in general they are some real assholes to Jews. They token themselves as Jews even when they aren’t. “Not in our name” t shirts that leftist non Jews wear while pretending to be Jewish for the photo opportunity? That’s partially them.

See this photo? Literally no Jew could have been involved in this. Literally no one who knows how to google the word “Passover” could have made this. The Hebrew is backward, like…. It’s literally wrong in every way. Not even in an “we changed it to fit Palestine culture” it’s just stoner bullshit. Just a big ol plate of blood libel and inciting terrorism against real Jews.

Other people have more info. All this is off the top of my head but don’t listen to these fucks unless the info is verified by a Jewish source or you might end up thinking Hebrew is written left to right, bar mitzfas are colonial settler oppression, a bris is cp, and Dino is the real historical language of Jews … who flew down from space just in time to get slightly murdered by a very few fringe groups in 1930s Europe.

[the-secondborn-of-seven]

For those with piss poor reading comprehension: I think the conclusion is

dont fight a losing battle (some people like arguing more than you)

American Fundemental Christianity is weird with both intentional ignorance, and ignorance (learn to tell the difference and step 1 the intentional variety)

Be nice (Not asking you to be kind or friendly, just polite, just human decency, and they might return it. Might. Don't always expect it, but when they do reward them with more kindness in turn)

When I was getting my associates degree I took a Mythology class that I loved. But one of the girls in class was absolutely off the rails conservative Christian which made things… interesting.

The professor started off the class by being like, “Mythology is stories associated with religion.”

This girl. Haaaated that. She was like, “No, Christianity is true. It’s not mythology.” Mythology was delivered in the same tone as someone trying to spit excrement from their mouth.

The professor raised her eyebrows and said laconically, “Yes, most people believe their religion is the real one, that’s part of it, and the stories surrounding religion are referred to as mythology.”

The girl stewed in a hateful sullen rage. I truly don’t understand why she didn’t drop the class but perhaps it was court mandated education. We all expected her to drop the class but she dug in like a tick and derailed discussions as often as she could.

On a different occasion the professor was drawing a comparison between social constructs like gender. The girl raised her hand. The class hushed to hear her announce, “It’s just a fact that women like domestic work and even though men are awful and stinky we just have to love them anyway. It’s biology, we’re just hardwired like that.”

I was sitting next to my friend a baby gay Jewish girl and our eyes met in mutual hilarity while the professor tried to pretend she hadn’t just been stricken with a stress induced migraine while she steered the class away from that landmine.

The next sticking point was a week later when the professor informed us that many mythologies have overlapping events like floods but these didn’t necessarily happen in such literal terms. It was a metaphorical way to process and understand the world.

This girls hand shot up. I watched the professor exercise extreme self control to keep her expression bland before calling on her.

“The world did flood. And Noah saved all the animals. Before the flood all the water was in a dome outside the earth and then the dome broke and the world flooded. All of it.”

The whole class stared at her as if struggling to comprehend the overlap of her acceptance that the world was round while also firmly believing that there had previously been a barrier that held up all of the earths water before god smashed it in a fit of pique.

She raged under the attention, glaring balefully at our astonished faces.

The professor stared at her blankly, unable to form words to such a bizarre belief. I wanted to ask clarifying questions- what they’d drunk before the dome broke, if there were rivers or lakes prior, or did the dome allow some rain in somehow, but then I really looked at her.

She had the eyes of a feral, cornered animal who regarded any deviation in worldview from her own to be a physical assault on her person. Like the professor, I said nothing, and after a wretchedly long pause class moved on.

[cryptotheism]

was kabbalah 100% biblical analysis with some neoplatonism thrown in for the woo factor, or was stuff like gematria used for purposes outside of being a 13th-century conspiracy theorist?

Really good question!

People have been doing Isopsephy for as long as we've had language. Using math to mess around with written text is done by pretty much any religious tradition with a textual corpus. Once you've assigned special importance to written text, manipulation of that text also acquires special meaning.

By the 1200s, late Platonism wasn't "thrown in" to anything, it was practically baked in to all monotheism. This is especially true for Judaism, which had a very close relationship to greco-roman pagan philosophy. The two influenced each other all the time.

This is especially especially true for Moshe de Leon, who was an avid reader of the Islamic scholarly works coming out of north Africa in the 13th century. Medieval Muslim scholars couldn't get enough Plotinus by way of Al-Farabi and Avicenna, and de Leon couldn't get enough of them.

I know you don't actually think De Leon was literally a conspiracy theorist, but you raise a good question. What exactly he was trying to do by writing the Zohar? According to Gershom Scholem, the text itself pulls from dozens of midrashim (rabbinical commentaries), books of outright mysticism, and jewish esoterica. De Leon was trying to build something that could unite a lot of disparate Jewish theology, esoteric and otherwise.

No small feat! You can't just say "all these things should be unified" you need some glue to hold it all together, and that glue needs Textual Authority. That's where the wacky Isopsephy like the gematria and notarikon come in. By fucking around with the Torah, de Leon could say "I'm not just making this up, its in the Torah. Also I didn't write this, Simeon bar Yochai did. We all love Yochai don't we?" Imo this is the real "woo factor" of the Zohar, but its also a necessary move to give the text authority. It is tactically and expertly applied woo which -let's be honest here- is the essence of good esoterica.

The funniest thing about the Zohar is that when it was published, it was roundly criticized by other rabbis for being full of nonsense grammatical mistakes, ahistorical claims, and even misquoting the bible, but people still liked it. The general response was something along the lines of "Moshe we know you made this up and its mostly bullshit...but its pretty cool."

TLDR; its late platonism all the way down, and yeah gematria is woo but de Leon was using it for a specific and non-woo purpose

[bah-pearl-cookie]

(tw, mentions of religion)

---

Shout out to religious systems!

Shout out to Catholic systems!

Shout out to Christian systems!

Shout out to Jewish systems!

Shout out to Muslim systems!

Shout out to Pagan systems!

Shout out to agnostic systems!

Shout out to atheist systems!

Shout out to Buddhist systems!

Shout out to Hindu systems!

Shout out to systems with their own religion!

Shout out to systems who are any other religion I didn't list!

Shout out to systems who are all collectively one religion!

Shout out to systems who have different headmates with different religions!

Shout out to systems with religious trauma!

Shout out to spiritual systems!

Shout out to systems who's religion is intertwined with their plurality in some way!

Shout out to systems who's religion isn't intertwined with their plurality at all!

Shout out to religious systems!

[water-you-doing-bro]

Look, I just think that Percy having mortal Christian or Jewish or Muslim or otherwise monotheistic friends is just a well of untapped potential, okay? Like, obviously Percy just draws in the most eclectic group of friends, right? And idk at lunch or smth they're talking about some assignment they got in history class and it comes up that they all have different beliefs/religions and Percy, being Percy, decides to try and bond with them about it by asking if they have a favorite myth/bible/torah/quran/etc story and at first half of them are like uh dude are you making fun of me? and they're just super confused and ofc Percy is all oh shit no sorry dude I just, y'know, I'm pagan and idk I have a favorite greek myth and stuff and I thought maybe you guys had a favorite story from your faith, idk is that not how it works? was it rude of me to ask? oh gods, I'm so sorry guys

And then they're all like oh okay no that makes sense actually, it's just not smth people ask usually, not cause it's taboo or anything, it's just . . . not smth many people think of, I guess.

And then they go around sharing stories from their respective faiths and percy is ofc respectful and listens intently and sometimes he may ask questions and stuff but he never dismisses them or makes fun of them or their beliefs [bc like, if the greeks, romans, egyptians, and norse are out there, who's to say that there aren't more? who's to say that they're not all out there, yknow?], even if he is a little weird about them sometimes but that's all just because he doesn't understand lmao

I just, idk, I think Sally probably raised Percy mostly atheist yknow? and its not like he's entirely unaware of Christianity and Judaism and Islam and all that, he just doesn't have any clue how those religions are practiced/worshipped and stuff. His only real exposure to that kind of thing is what he's seen on tv and then his own experiences with how they 'worship' and interact with the gods at camp.

So he just thinks of deities as being mostly Just Some Guy who happens to have powers and a superiority complex. He thinks of 'higher powers' as, like, idk if personable is the right word, but I mean, he thinks of gods as just people. He doesn't understand the whole reverent worship and devotion and like, detachment from God attitude that like, Christianity has and stuff like that.

So Percy will just say the wildest shit sometimes, like, 'oh yeah, Zeus is a horny bastard and an absolute asshole, but he's the king of the gods so if we don't give him proper respect or tribute or whatever he gets pissy. What about your God? Does He get grumpy if you don't like, go to church on Sunday or smth?' or 'do you think you could get me in contact with Jesus? because Zeus put Dionysus in sobriety time out and he's all cranky about it bc he can't conjure wine ig but like, if your guy did it for him it might get past thunderbutt's restrictions and then grapehead might be less cranky?'

Idk but like I said, I just think this is an untapped well of hilarious potential!

[queer-ragnelle]

hi! i apologize if this is outside your ballpark. i recently came across a post about how religion appears in bbc's merlin and it got me thinking about religion in arthurian legend in general. i was wondering if you have any thoughts on the topic? what religions do the characters follow and how does it impact their lives? i know most of the 'cast' is christian but even then medieval christianity is different enough from modern christianity that i constantly feel like i'm missing some nuance/context when i read arthuriana. do other religions feature (such as judaism, islam, pagan spirituality) and are there any essays on it or books where that's explored? thank you for all you do and have a great day!

Hello!

So I’m definitely no religious scholar of any kind. Yet I somehow managed to write an obscenely long post in reply. I've provided copious amounts of literature on everything I'm discussing here, so I encourage anyone who sees this to read what's provided and form their own opinion. Although my reply is based on the Medieval stories I've read and quoted as well as the essays and books of people far more qualified than I am, it's still my own interpretation, and shouldn't be taken as the final word on this highly complex subject. If anyone finds something here I've gotten wrong, please don't hesitate to educate me otherwise and point me in a direction to learn more!

Without further ado...

The first thing anyone looking into this needs to understand is [most of] the Arthurian stories we have were drafted or documented by Christians, oftentimes monks (ie, people very devoted to their religion). Even the texts like the Mabinogion or The Welsh Triads, which contains no Christianity, wasn’t written down until the 12th century after the oral tradition had passed through the Christianizing of Britain. Not to mention translation bias, an oft overlooked factor. For example, French characters Lancelot and Galahad were retroactively added to The Welsh Triads to bring the Triads more in line with the widely popular French narrative. Translator Rachael Bromwich has excellent footnotes regarding this in the file I shared above. So just keep that in mind while reading/researching this subject.

More generally speaking, while some characters themselves aren’t Christian, such as Muslim Palomides or the occasional Jewish character, the texts are [mostly] from an overtly Islamphobic and antisemitic viewpoint. The depictions of religion in Medieval Arthuriana should never be taken as an indication of how things “really were,” either in the time it’s meant to take place (ie, the 5th-6th centuries when the Saxons were colonizing Britain) or the time/place it was written in (ie Chrétien de Troyes wrote from his own 12th century Breton perspective). Point being, it’s all very biased. Perception heavily depends on the place and year things were written and translated. If you're ever unsure which translation of a text will best suit your needs, whether that means accuracy, readability, or containing more robust footnotes, don't hesitate to ask.

That being said, the differences you’re touching on regarding Medieval versus Modern Christianity sometimes stems from Christian Mysticism, which was a prevalent theology in the Middle Ages and still exists today (albeit to a lesser degree). Some contemporary sources on this would be:

The Confessions by Saint Augustine of Hippo

The City of God by Saint Augustine of Hippo

The Book of Divine Works by Saint Hildegard von Bingen

The Letters of Hildegard von Bingen Volume I by Saint Hildegard von Bingen

The Letters of Hildegard von Bingen Volume II by Saint Hildegard von Bingen

The Book of Margery Kempe by Margery Kempe.

Now the thing with Christianity in history and Arthuriana is that the lines between orthodox practice and the mystical was blurred. On an episode about charms, the Medieval Podcast (also available on any podcasting platform like Spotify) explains how people bought and used charms all the time, even within their Christian practice. To them, it was a part of their worship. They may have chanted some words over a sick friend while anointing certain parts of the body in the hopes it would aid in healing. Depending on the time and place, this may or may not have been openly discussed for fear of repercussions or accusations of blasphemy, but it was common enough for historians to have gathered a multitude of examples preserved in spell books. To a desperate Medieval Christian, one of these charms occupied a similar place to Pray the Rosary or Hail Marys in hopes of boosting the success of their endeavor.

So in a similar vein, that concept is sometimes stretched for the sake of an Arthurian story. What you end up with are characters like Merlin, supposedly half-demon, but baptized, therefore his purified magic and prophesizing is considered "Christian;" Morgan le Fay, raised in a nunnery, yet learned necromancy from the holy sisters; and Gawain, who obtained his sun powers, as well as his name, from the hermit that baptized him. At least, so it goes in the Vulgate.

In a way, these people are not magical through their own power, but channeling the divine with the help of their Christian education in order to bestow those benefits, often health, strength, or prosperity related, onto others. (You'll see a lot of real life examples in the contemporary sources I linked above.) Vulgate editor Norris J. Lacy and his translation team left a footnote on the Gawain passage explaining the history of the Gawain/Gwalchmai character that lead me to theorize that this passage might be an attempt by Anonymous to maintain those heightened magical powers while offering a palatable Christian explanation for it.

A similar phenomenon can be seen in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, the characters are staunchly Christian, and yet the presence of a green-skinned knight astride a green horse who can survive a beheading is seen as marvelous, even miraculous, rather than monstrous. As Larissa Tracy explains in the essay Shifting Skin Passing as Human Passing as Fay, although the Green Knight is Othered by the court, he's not so Othered as to be held entirely apart. He's "tallest of men" and "half a giant." He is still one of the "in" crowd at least a little bit. So while his green coloring shocks the court, and calls to mind Otherworldly fay, in a way similar to the Lady of the Lake or other such beings, the Green Knight isn't viewed as an enemy of the crown so much as a chance for the court to prove its virtue. In the end, this Green Knight was indeed a man, Sir Bertilak, transformed by Morgan le Fay to take on the monstrous visage, and was indeed "one of them" all along. In this way, concepts which seem magical (read: Pagan) to the modern reader remain steeped in Christian ideals. This extends to Gawain's pentacle shield as well, sometimes misconstrued with a similar Pagan symbol, which the poem outright states represents the five virtues of knighthood or even the five wounds of Jesus Christ. Then again, Rhonda Knight's essay All Dressed Up With Someplace to Go: Regional Identity argues the opposite point, that there is indeed a divide. Knight asserts that the poet has intentionally heightened the dichotomy of insider/outsider, particularly as it relates to the Anglo-Welsh border between Sir Bertilak's Wirral and King Arthur's London Camelot. It's quite plain from the moment the Green Knight enters the scene there's a stark split between the two cultures, whether that be interpreted as the people of Wales and the people of England, or the Otherworld associated with Wales and the dominance of Christianity.

But anyway enough about Christians. Let's talk about my friend Sir Palomides and Islam.

A brief recap for anyone who's unfamiliar with Sir Palomides, he's a Muslim knight, referred to in the Medieval Christian tongue as a "Saracen," who vows to convert to Christianity for the sake of marrying Isolde, but curiously hasn't yet. His father, Esclabor, and both of his younger brothers, Segwarides and Safir, have already converted. Palomides is continuously ostracized for his religion/appearance throughout the narrative and considered lesser than Tristan. This is pretty much always the roles they play. Sometimes Palomides is treated with extreme cruelty, such as in the Post-Vulgate, where Galahad forces him to convert to Christianity at sword point, only for Palomides to be murdered shortly afterward by Gawain once his narrative purpose, ie successful conversion, has been fulfilled.

For this break down, I'm ignoring that portrayal of Palomides as well as the Prose Tristan because they suffer from the issues I already outlined regarding Medieval Christian's malicious depiction of non-Christians. And I hate them</3 We'll be turning our attention to Le Morte d'Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory instead as Palomides is slightly more nuanced there. (Very slightly. "The Good Saracen Sir Palomides" is a loaded sentiment, but Malory was a Medieval Englishman imprisoned for his crimes and writing through his madness. We work with what we have.) The copy I linked is translated by Dr. Dorsey Armstrong, not only because it's very good, but because she authored one of the essays I'll be sharing on the subject. She also has a 24 part lecture series on Arthuriana that I highly recommend.

In Le Morte d'Arthur, and the earlier published La Tavola Ritonda as well as Byelorussian Tristan, Palomides is treated a teensy bit better. In most versions of the story, Palomides misses an appointment to duel with Tristan out of cowardice or dishonor. But Malory has written a scenario in which Palomides missed the appointment not out of subservience to Tristan, but because he was jailed elsewhere and couldn't physically make it. He still gets his ass kicked by Tristan, but Malory's change shifts implicational blame of Palomides to circumstantial blame of his situation which serves to create a more sympathetic character. So while Tristan's perception of events remains the same, Palomides is given a narrative excuse which maintains his honor and integrity in the mind of the reader. Yet as Dr. Dorsey Armstrong points out in her essay, Postcolonial Palomides, after Tristan discovers Palomides suffering a bout of grief-induced madness, Palomides's ability to communicate breaks down, and Tristan is unable to understand him. Palomides occupies a space that his fellow "Saracen" knights, such as Priamus of Tuscany, don't. He's Othered by everyone in the narrative yet gains renown among the Christian knights in part because of his extreme desire to join the Round Table, while resisting the necessity to conform to a religious order and community which does not otherwise accept him. Unlike his father and brothers, Palomides seems more aware of, and resistant to, the predatory systems which dictate their conditional acceptance.

Race as a concept did not exist in the Medieval world, rather it was intrinsically tied to religion. That said, colorism was always present. "Saracen" is a term used to refer to Arab people, but according to Hamed Suliman Abuthawabeh, the etymology of the word itself stems from the color brown, ie referential of skin tone. As it relates to fiction... Ever wonder why the Holy Land of the Middle East in Arthurian Legend, where Galahad, Perceval, and Bors seek the grail, is called "Sarras?" Now you know. This concept is not limited to Middle Eastern characters either. Black people in Medieval stories are referred to as "Moorish," ie from the "Moorlands." To that end, ever wonder why Aglovale's half-Black son is named "Morien?" Or how about Parzival's half-Black brother Feirefiz, who's described as having a mixture of "white and black skin," half his father's "fair country Anjou," half his mother's "heathen land Zassamank" with a face two-toned "as a magpie." (Author Wolfram von Eschenbach and translator Jessie Weston's words, not mine).

The fact is non-white, non-Christian characters are often reduced to their skin color, not only in what labels are applied to them as people, but their religions and falsified homelands as well. The cost of a modicum of respect is total assimilation. It's all or nothing for these characters, and even then, it's not a guarantee. Aside from the especially harrowing treatment of Palomides in the Post-Vulgate, this concept appears yet again in the poem The Turk and Sir Gawain, in which Gawain continuously oscillates between foe and friend with an unnamed Turkish knight, only to conclude the story by violently converting this individual through beheading. The Turkish knight is reborn, now Christian, and at last gains a name and identity, Sir Gromer. The expectation put on Pagan knights is so great they must submit to their white comrades and allow them to, literally, kill their former selves to be worthy of personhood in Christendom.

The same can be said of Jewish characters in Arthurian Legend. They're not often the focal point, but they do pop up from time to time. In La Tavola Ritonda, there's Dialantes the Jewish giant, as well as the beautiful Hebrew damsel of Aigua della Spina, who's curiously married to a Christian knight. Then of course there's the rampant antisemitism in Chrétien de Troyes's Perceval, as well as the continuations, which blame "the treacherous Jews" for killing Christ, while also casting Joseph of Arimathea as a Christian knight who brought the Holy Grail to Britain. Furthermore in The History of the Grail portion of the Vulgate, Joe is said to have "converted to the faith of Jesus Christ" while keeping it secret for fear that "the Jews would have killed him." Tons of revisionism happening. The bulk of the Vulgate makes little to no mention of Jewish people, good or bad, as it's mostly tied to the grail story. That said, when it does come up again in The Death of Arthur, it's a slippery slope into every other prejudice, as the term has become synonymous with evil, particularly as it relates to women.

I couldn't possibly outline the entirety of Medieval Christianity's relationship with other religions in a single tumblr post. Here's a link to my huge folder about Race & Religion in the Middle Ages. The essays and books there discuss this subject in a general sense but there's a sub-folder with Arthurian specific essays to learn more about Palomides, Priamus, Gromer, Morien, Feirefiz, and other characters or texts that touch on race/religion.

Despite all of the above, it's not all bad. Sometimes an author was anti-racist toward the non-Christian characters, yet limited by their time. (Think how Herman Melville portrayed Polynesian Queequeg in Moby Dick, positively, but used phrenology to compliment the shape of his skull by comparing him to that of white people. Not up to modern standards, but an attempt at progressive for its time nonetheless.) Looking at Dutch Arthuriana, while Morien's name is an insensitive indication of his unnamed "Moorish" mother, the only characters in the story who treat Morien poorly, such as the boatmen who refuse to ferry him, are openly condemned, even threatened, by the Knights of the Round Table, including Gareth.

I don't know what to call this writing technique, but it's used (and sometimes underutilized...) today. Essentially, as a means to indicate to the reader that the views of the antagonistic (in this case, xenophobic and anti-Black) character isn't shared by the author, they include another character who refutes and combats the negative behavior and who accepts the oppressed party as they are. However rare, it does happen in Medieval texts.

Last but not least, I'd be remiss to omit the Hebrew King Artus from this discussion. It's an incomplete story, but sets out to retell the Arthurian Legend from a Jewish standpoint. All the characters are Jewish and all religious allusions that were once Christian have been rewritten as Jewish. It has a thorough analysis by the translator and tons of footnotes to indicate the Jewish references throughout the text.

Regarding religion in modern Arthuriana like BBC Merlin, Druids aren't actually present in the Legends, with the one and only exception being The Adventure of Melóra and Orlando, which does refer to Merlin as a Druid! There's also the connection made between Merlin and Stonehenge in The History of the King's of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth; the word "Druid" is not used, but Merlin describes his own ability to manipulate the stones as "mystical." One has to remember that Druids didn't write down their own history, as it was their way to memorize religious practices and not document anything. All we know about them comes from outside sources, such as Greeks and Romans as well as Christian missionaries come to convert them. As Christianity took hold and figures like Saint Patrick "drove the snakes [Druids] out of Ireland," much of that history was either lost or purposefully maligned. Did the Druids actually participate in human sacrifice? Who knows! Bearing that in mind, we must acknowledge the influence of the several revivals of Druidism and recent boom in Neopaganism; a lot of popular interpretations of Arthurian Legend are just that, the creator's interpretation, and not necessarily indicative of what the historical people would have been doing. To learn more about that, there's Druids: A Very Short Introduction by Barry Cunliffe which I found helpful.

When it comes to Merlin, or Myrddin Wyllt, his character is potentially based on a few different people who really existed, but there isn't a name given to whatever religion they practiced in anything I've read. While the time period did have clearly delineated religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism (and then Islam), Mithraism, Druidism, etc, there were just as many people who prayed to Jesus Christ while simultaneously leaving out offerings for the local spirits. Most religions come with regional differences, various sects, or shift gradually over time. Saint Patrick himself is said to have had a "fluid identity," as his autobiographical work The Confessions paints him in a fairly positive light as a peaceful missionary, while Dr. Janina Ramirez indicates in her book The Private Life of Saints that other sources characterize Saint Patrick as an aggressor. Some scholars even believe Saint Patrick may have been two different people, combined over the centuries, similarly to Myrddin Wyllt. Modern Arthurian books and shows really lean into a dichotomy between Christianity and the "Old Religion" for the sake of entertainment. But bouts of unrest weren't as fantastical nor made up of two wholly separate, well-defined teams.

Wow this got long. I think we'll leave it at that. I hope that answers your questions! Take care!

[galaxymagitech]

Atheism — He has expressed distaste for religion and faith in some media, including animated movies, and the League of Assassins’ cultish loyalty to Ra’s does not leave a lot of room for belief in a higher power.

Agnosticism — Bruce sometimes seems to be agnostic, and Damian could have picked that up from him. He has also been raised with a variety of cultural influences, which could result in him having a general belief in religion but no specific one.

Christianity — Bruce’s father was Christian, and I think Damian has met Santa Claus. He also lives in a predominantly Christian country now, and Arab Christians exist so he could be Christian on his mother’s side as well. Alfred is definitely Christian, and Dick is sometimes implied to be Christian, so those influences are present in his current life.

Jewish — Damian’s father’s mother was Jewish, and at least somewhat practicing. Although Damian wouldn’t be considered Jewish halachically by that alone, if Bruce raises him with Jewish traditions, some sects of Judaism (reform and I believe reconstructionist) would consider him Jewish. Additionally, Arab Jews also exist—he could be Mizrahi on his mother’s side.

Muslim — Damian is Arab on his mother’s side, and while not all Arabs are Muslim, many are. He also spent a lot of time in regions with predominantly Muslim populations, making this the most likely religion for him to have early exposure to.

Buddhist — Damian is Chinese on his mother’s side as well, and Buddhism is one of the most common religions in China.

Taoist or Chinese Folk Religion — Damian is Chinese on his mother’s side, and Taoism and Chinese folk religions are also common in China.

Hinduism — It’s just a very popular world religion. Also, Nanda Parbat is based on Nanga Parbat, which is in a primarily Muslim country but very close to India.

Greek Paganism — Various Ancient Greek religious things are genuine facts in the DC universe, including Greek gods. If Damian is going based off of evidence, he might end up here.

[religiousqueer-culture-is]

welcome!!

asks are open!

This is a culture blog for religious queers of all kinds to share their experiences!

this includes all queer identities, including religious specific ones, xenogenders, good-faith labels, m-spec, aspec, contradictory labels, and many more!

This also includes all religions, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, paganism, polytheism, and pantheism of all kind. All religions are welcome here; no kind of hate is

when starting a submission, start with something along the lines of “religious queer culture is…” or if you want to specify a religion/label, like “queer muslim/christian/hindu/etc culture is…” or “religious sapphic/nonbinary/etc culture is…” feel free to! I will allow sign offs :]

as a very important note!!! There is only one mod!! I will try to get all submissions in but I can make no promises!

also very important!! The mod running this account is a sex-repulsed asexual!! Please do not submit nsfw. Any and all nsfw submissions will be deleted

yet another note because apparently this is needed. No. Hatred. Against. Religions. Here. Any. I don’t care.

claimed sign offs will be marked here —

some stuff about the mod under cut!

names Shai, and I go by he/it!

plural (Shai is our collective name)

I am Jewish and a Hellenistic polytheist!

I myself am queer: aroace and ay’lonit, questioning intersex. That’s all for simplicity

physically and mentally disabled; please be patient ^^

alterhuman :]

Pro-Palestinian Jew </3

[whisperingrockandroll]

Silly Psychonauts Religion headcanons

The Aquatos are part of the "Grulovian Orthodox Church." A small Christian denomination that branched off from the Russian Orthodox Church.

Judaism runs in both sides of Raz's family. Donna, in particular, had a Jewish grandmother on her mother's side. She hasn't yet realized this makes her Jewish too, and all her kids.

Milla is probably Catholic, and Sasha may be too. Sasha may have been lapsed or atheist for a time but Milla may have got him back in.

Norse Paganism is still an active religion in Psychonauts and Helmut Fullbear is an active and proud practitioner. Bob finds it silly, but Truman was always enthralled by it and might now believe in it himself. Truman, due to his connection to nature, may feel most strongly drawn to Freya or Frigg.

Gisu comes from a mixed household, one of her parents was Hindu and the other was Muslim, but neither are really "active" members of the faith and she doesn't think about it much.

Many Psychics worship Morpheus, the god of dreams, and believe he is the source of psychic power. This was far more common years ago, but is now a more esoteric belief system that many have come to see as a cult.

The Delugionists believe in a water deity that many view as malevolent. Maligula is not actually a figure of worship to them, but they believe she achieved enlightenment and was blessed by it. There is some kind of link between the ocean and the mind for them.

Delugionism became a popular belief system in Grulovia after the Great Flood, because while many believe Maligula was a monster, others believe she was actually a hero who freed the country from the tyrannicidal grasp of the Gzar's family.

Gristol viewed Maligula as a hero, and as such became fascinated with Delugionism. But nobody from the group actively recruited him, since they would naturally believe his whole family were tyrants.

Or, alternatively, the Delugionists might have actively sought out Gristol for conversion, believing that Grulovia needed to be reunited under the banner of a redeemed royal family that had seen the light.

The remaining members of the Galochio family are connected to the Delugionists in some way. They are also paranoid and believe the Aquatos were the ones who cursed them.

[transgenderer]

What do you think did happen in Arabia in the 7th century?

Well we don't know! But I think Mohammad was probably not raised by pagans, and was not raised in a city that was mostly pagan. What we do have from preislamic Arabia and especially Syria etc is not pagan but rather a mix of Jewish and Christian (but not ethnically Jewish) that was very common before the rise of orthodox Christianity afyer the nicene council and such. I mean, the story that he magically converted massive quantities of pagans is blatant hagiographic bullshit.

Mohammad is probably a fusion of multiple figures, the idea of a great prophet who was also a great general is pretty dubious imo. MAYBE if he was a prince or something? Idk. Anyway. Probably within arabia the conquest was much more gradual. Or he was a local prince and had some sort of novel strategy, idk. The Quran is probably compiled from multiple sources, maybe an oral tradition. Something really weird happened in it's history, it's a grammatically and lexically and structurally weird work. Who knows what's going on with it. Anyway In the late 800s and early 900s Muslim leaders destroyed all the other sources so we really don't know about the history. Qatar won't let us read their very early Qurans :(

NOTE I'm high and on ghb. So. This might be nonsense

[dragoneyes613]

There is an additional reason Jewish chosenness should never be understood as a doctrine of racial superiority. By no accepted definition of either Jew or race are the Jews a race. The Jewish people is composed of members of every race; it is a nation defined by its religion, not its race. Hence, anyone, of any race or nationality, can become a Jew and thereby chosen. Whoever assumes the Jewish task becomes a member of the chosen people. Since everyone can become chosen, chosenness cannot be racial. One might just as well speak of a race of ethical monotheists, or a Christian race. Jews are descendants of Abraham, a Mesopotamian. What rendered him a Jew were his beliefs, not his blood.

On innumerable occasions, Jewish literature - from the Bible to the Talmud to the most recent rabbinic writings - has emphasized that chosenness is a matter of values rather than race. As noted, Jewish sources repeatedly portray Jews in negative ways (hardly the characteristic of people who consider themselves racial superior) and go out of their way to depict righteous non-Jews. To cite one dramatic instance, the first two chapters of the book of Exodus imply that it was a Jew who reported Moses' killing of an Egyptian slave-master to the Pharaoh, and states that it was an Egyptian, Pharaoh's daughter, who saved Moses' life when he was an infant.

The incorporation of the book of Ruth into the Bible demonstrates how Judaism and chosenness are not ethnically based. Ruth, born a pagan, chosen to become a Jew, and is so highly regarded that the Jewish tradition has awarded her the distinction of having the future Messiah descend from her. That Ruth originally belonged to a different people has been as irrelevant to the Jewish people as the color of her hair.

The rabbis of the Talmud likewise delighted in tracing the ancestry of some of their most illustrious teachers to non-Jews. They claimed, for example, that Rabbi Akiva, one of the greatest figures of the Talmud and the most famous martyr in Jewish history, was a descendant of converts, and that one of his ancestors was Sisera, the great military enemy of the Jews.

Almost every nation sees itself as special in some sense - from the Chinese, whose word for China is "center of the earth," to the Americans and the belief, which we share, in being a "bright, shining light." Many Christians believe that only Christians go to heaven, and Muslims see themselves as God's messengers. Yet of all the world's peoples, the Jews, with their doctrine of chosenness, elicit the sharpest attacks. This is yet another unique aspect of the unique phenomenon known as Jew-hatred.

- Why the Jews? The Reason for Antisemitism, Dennis Prager and Joseph Telushkin, pages 28-29

[floatingaimlessly333]

I have a question, does the Proce family follow any religious denomination because I HC ghost is Jewish and Nik is Orthodox and Farah is Muslim, so does the Price family recognize any of theee??

I never really thought about the Price family and religion. I definitely don’t think they follow one denomination.

Honestly, I think your headcanons are spot on. I think they have kind of an open attitude about religion where everywhere is free to express their beliefs and practices, and everyone is free to participate in those practices if they want.

The whole family has taken to celebrating both Hanukkah and Christmas. There have been a couple years where everyone observed Ramadan together, but it’s usually just Alex who joins Farah.

Alex had still been so angry when he’d been adopted, and experiencing Ramadan for the first time had made him feel truly centered and calm for the first time in a while. So he kept up with the practice throughout the years.

Once Simon and Johnny start dating, they start to incorporate some of Johnny’s Catholic traditions into what they’ve got going on.

Mary and Tommy had always lived in Jewish neighborhoods, so they had no idea how to navigate the melting pot that is the Price family. Same with the Mactavish clan. But everyone becomes quickly at ease with the whole situation as the Price members gladly explain their own bits of religion and culture.

They may be a mess of beliefs from Pagan to Buddhist to who knows what else, but they make it work. And they’re happy, so that’s really all they care about.

[hestiashearthfire]

Can you tell me more about veiling? Or link any other places to learn? :)

Khaire, @siriuscitrus! Thanks for your ask; I've been putting off answering because this is such a big question. I've divided my answer into three parts. Keep in mind this is based on my personal experience, so other people may have different opinions.

What is Veiling?

Veiling, generally speaking, is the practice of covering one's head, and depending on tradition, one's hair, shoulders or face. (See a definition here.) Veiling can be practiced for many reasons; oftentimes this reason is religious, but veiling is also practiced culturally as a form of dress. In addition to whatever spiritual purpose a veil might have, a veil is also just a convenient way for many people to protect their hair, shield themselves from the sun, or express themselves aesthetically.

Men and women wear veils, and veiling has been a part of many cultures throughout history. Different cultures have different traditions, terms, and styles of veiling. While many cultures are open to sharing their veiling traditions, some styles of veiling are closed practices with immense cultural meaning, and it's important to be respectful when studying veiling as a practice. Though veiling is ubiquitous throughout places and times, not every style of veiling is appropriate for everyone.

Although veiling typically involves cloth of some kind, such as a scarf or shawl, veils do not have to fully cover the hair, or the neck and shoulders, and veiling can be practiced using accessories such as hats, headbands, bandannas, or clips. The style of veiling chosen by the wearer is a matter of personal comfort, social expectations, or religious norms, and varies widely from place to place.

Why Do People Veil?

As stated above, veiling can be practiced for many reasons, including religious, cultural, personal, practical or aesthetic reasons. For example, in Islam, veiling (termed hijab) is practiced as a form of religious modesty. Other religions, such as Christianity and Judaism, may also have religious reasons for veiling.

Still more people veil as an expression of culture, or simply as a personal preference. Since my reasons for veiling are primarily religious, I can't speak to cultural reasons, but suffice to say that wearing a veil, while certainly an indicator of faith in many cases, is not always a religious matter. Many pagans who practice magic, for example, view veiling as a practical method of protecting one's energy, rather than a religious expression. Sometimes, veiling can be both religious and practical; it is up to the wearer to determine their reasons for veiling.

I veil out of devotion to Hestia, Hera, and Aphrodite. On a less religious note, I simply like the way my hair looks covered, and I enjoy styling my scarves to match my outfits. Veiling makes me feel beautiful and confident, and serves as a physical reminder of the Gods' presence in my life.

How Do People Veil?

Veiling styles are as varied as the cultures from which they originate. For example, I learned to veil from a Jewish community, and so my veils often look like this. In other religions and cultures, more full-coverage styles like this or this, or even full-body veiling might be the style.

It is my understanding that Jewish veiling styles are not closed, and are open for everyone to wear respectfully. More full-coverage styles are also open when worn respectfully; however, one who is not Muslim should not call this practice hijab. Just as it is up to the wearer to determine their reasons for veiling, it is up to the wearer to determine what style of veiling suits them based on their preferences. Although one's religion can impose certain standards, where one lives, works, or worships will ultimately determine what a veil looks like to them.

As an attorney, for example, I have to ensure my veils look professional and are suitable for a conservative environment. Personally, I prefer more turban-like styles, although I am experimenting with more full-coverage styles currently. Veils are incredibly personal to the wearer, and a knit hat may be as precious to one person as a scarf is to another.

Rules surrounding veiling will vary based on religion and culture. As a Hellenic Polytheist, I am not required to veil at all, but as a practice, this was something I carried over from Catholicism. I choose to veil around all but close family and friends. However, in other cultures, one may be required to veil after certain milestones like puberty or marriage, or around certain people, or at times of worship. It is an unfortunate reality in many places that veiling is either enforced or forbidden, and I try to be mindful of that in my practice.

For practical how-to on veiling, the internet is your friend. Sites like YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram all have visual examples and tutorials for you to follow. Wrapunzel is one such site with many tutorials. The Haute Take, Haute Hijab's blog, also has great style advice for full-coverage styles. (I'm not getting paid if you click on these links. I am just a happy customer recommending both.)

Please understand that I am not an expert; I have tried to keep this post general to avoid misinformation, but I welcome any corrections or additional information for clarification! I hope this post was helpful to you, and I wish you the best in your veiling journey.

Gods bless you always!

[thescarlettbitch]

Answering witchcraft paganism FAQs~

Nobody asked me, but I'm going to share my take on these faqs I see all the time.

Before you read- I am a stranger on the internet and I am by no means a figure of authority, I have just been practicing for many years and am discussing my beliefs. That said, there are no true rules to witchcraft, other than being respectful to others' beliefs. (Unless you follow Wicca, or another very specific religion. This is not quite a free-for-all practice, but it is very freeing, do not view witchcraft/paganism as the antithesis to Christianity, its not.)

How old do I need to be to start practicing/worshipping?

Can you believe in a deity/form your own beliefs about the universe? Congrats, you can start. That being SAID do not bring anything into your home that could get you hurt (ie don't bring in crystals or tarot cards into your house if your parents are going to assume it's Satanism and kick you out, etc) and DO YOUR RESEARCH. Be wary of closed practices and scams. I started practicing bare-bones when I was like 11. I made mistakes, but I grew. Never stop learning. I know people who are raising their kids in paganism and witchcraft, so my belief is very much anyone can join. (Yes, that does mean ANYONE)

Is there any specific way that is correct?

No, to a point. Your practice is your own, there are so many labels within the community (sea witch, kitchen witch, eclectic witch, etc) because people do what works for them. There is no wrong or right way to be a witch or a pagan. Find what works best for you and be respectful of everyone else. Again, be weary of closed practices.

What is a closed practice?

A closed practice is an aspect of culture-specific witchcraft that outsiders to that culture have to be taught or invited into. Burning white sage is a closed practice to Indegenous people, dreamcatchers are a closed practice to indigenous folks as well, honey jars are closed to Hoodoo— hoodoo/voodoo is closed to a specific sect of afro-centric cultures, it's argued that working with Lilith is closed to Jewish people

I don't know much about these practices as I am culturally and ethnically white. I'm sure if you asked someone within one of these practices to explain it better to you, as long as you are respectful and kind and respect their interaction boundaries, they would be more than happy to tell you why these practices are closed. I will say that I'm pretty sure it's about cultural appropriation and how their ancestors were persecuted for doing these practices, but again, I am not in these practices, so I do not know for sure. And again BE RESPECTFUL.

Do I have to be pagan?

Absolutely not! You can be a pagan and be a witch, be a pagan and not be a witch, or be a witch and not be a pagan! I know a couple Christian Witches, and i know a Muslim Witch, and a Jewish Witch. You don't have to be religious, but if you're going to a part of this community you should at least be aware that there is a large number of religious people, but I'm sure most will welcome you with open arms regardless.

Where do I start?

Pick an aspect and start researching! Interested in tarot? Google it, buy your own deck, or use an app. Astrology? Dozens of apps and websites will let you input your birth chart and give you detailed descriptions of each sign and placement.

Don't I need to be gifted my first deck of Tarot?

I think that's the tradition, but I bought my own and I haven't been smited yet. If you're really worried about it, you can always find people through different communities who might be interested in gifting you one, but that's not always feasible for everyone. They can get expensive, and some people only want to part with their deck after they die. Just buy your own, or use a regular playing card deck, or make your own if you're crafty. (Post about this incoming)

How long do I have to practice before I'm a real witch?

Have you practiced a day? Perfect, you're a real witch. You're a /baby/ witch, but you're still a witch! As for how long you will remain a baby, I've been practicing on and off since i was like 11 (I'm in my 20s), and I still say I'm a baby half the time. It just depends on how comfortable you are with your practice, and how much you know.

How do I know if this is the right path for me?

You'll never know if you don't try! Start slow, don't dive headfirst and get into way too much that you get overwhelmed and burn out. I made that mistake over and over again

How can I be sure I'm not going to offend The Powers Of The Universe?

I'm pretty sure you'd have to actively seek out offending them in order to really do it. As I mentioned, I made lots of mistakes when I first started out. I didn't do half the research I needed to do, and I didn't really ask if deities wanted to work with me. I tried working with half of like three different pantheons at once, and while mixing pantheons is fine and relatively commonplace, trying to devote yourself to about 20 deities at once at like 15? Not a good look. I couldn't build my relationship with them and my practice was stagnant for a long time. That being said, those deities weren't offended. They weren't happy with me but I didn't get cursed or smited. When I was getting back into my practice I apologized to them, and they seem to have forgiven me. They are omnipotent, if you are trying your best, they'll know your intent. I'm sure there are people who have offended deities, as they have feelings just the same as you and I, but to my knowledge it is hard to do unintentionally.

Can I do spells for other people?

Honestly, there is no one good answer for this. I'd say it's about context. Should you spell someone to develop feelings for you because you have a crush on them? Absolutely not. That takes away their ability to consent. Do not start a relationship with a kidnapping. Can you do a spell to attract love in your life? I'd say yea, you're not targeting a specific person, but be careful with it. Your friend is going through hard times, and you want to put a luck charm on them? I'd say get their consent. You want to curse your cheating ex boyfriend? Think about your belief on karma, and go from there. Use your best judgement.

Speaking of Karma, what is the law of threefold?

That is specific to Wicca, unless you're Wiccan, don't worry about it, but I'll tell you how I understand it. It's a "rule" saying that the energy you put into the world will come back to you threefold. So if you curse someone, you will feel the curse three times as hard. I'm not Wiccan, so feel free to correct me. I don't believe in that law, I believe in nuance and that karma is more of a delivering of justice. But that's me, if you want to believe in that, you can, think about your own beliefs in karma, and spell accordingly. I personally do not follow this rule.

Do I have to do spells?

I mean, no, it's a pretty big part of witchcraft but if you just like one aspect, sure, who am I to tell you that's not allowed? I'm just a person on the internet.

How do I do spells?

Spells can look however you want. There are a million and a half posts on here about spellwork. It can be a jar, a candle, a food, a chant, whatever. It can take a lot out of you if you're just starting out, so be careful. I'd say steer clear of huge undertakings until you're more comfortable.

What is shifting?

I am the complete wrong person to ask on this as I do not believe in this. In my opinion it is just lucid dreaming, but again, I do not believe in shifting, so ask someone who does.

Again, these are just my opinions, feel free to comment anymore that you may have!