#SPOP Discourse

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

How would you personally make a friends to enemies to lovers work? Or how would you “fix” C//A so it could actually work as a romance?

i remember making a post about this a while ago but i can't find it, so if anyone finds it, please link it!

but to keep it short, here are three main changes i would make:

make them NOT adoptive sisters a.k.a give them different parents. preferably, adora would be raised by hordak and catra would be raised by shadow weaver.

make their animosity and power dynamic more mutual. adora is not gonna get her ass beat by catra all the time.

make catra's redemption arc longer. make her regret her actions a little bit more, and not enjoy torturing adora so much. make catra only hurt adora or the princesses because she's forced to, or she's afraid of rebelling against the horde. give her little moments of humanity to show that she's actually capable of redemption.

[carto0ncritter]

People are so desperate for LGBT representation, (specifically gay and lesbian couples), that they're willing to accept literally any homosexual ship regardless of the concerning elements.

Let's see, we have ass ships like

1)Stolitz - Stolas is an abuser, a r*pist, a racist man who has so many powers yet is emotionally fragile, passive and wimpy, a man who victimizes himself over and over, a man who emotionally neglects the child who desperately needs him for his sexual fantasies with his victim, a man who is the creator's pet, a man whose actions aren't wrong according to the writers, a man who can just blame everyone else around him but himself with no consequences

2) Catradora - Catra is an abuser too, but was treated like a cute kitty cat in s5 despite having done atrocious things, she was instantly forgiven with no consequences, and she ended up dating her sister and the biggest victim of her abuse

3) Huskerdust - I haven't talked about this one so far, but Angel sexually harassed Husk and never apologized, Husk himself sang "Loser, Baby" and as a SA survivor I felt like he was trying to say this to Angel: "Oh, you've hit rock bottom because of SA? It's your fault lol, accept that you're a whiny bitch and a loser even tho the problem is extremely serious and out of your control and just suck it up, I'm a loser too despite not going through the same thing you have, you're not alone in being a loser BUT YOU ARE STILL A LOSER BABYYY A LOOOSER" Like, ik the message was supposed to be how we're not alone in our struggles and how there's always someone who will understand and make us feel less alone, but the way this was handled rubbed me the wrong way. Also, I'm not sure whether or not to mention this as well (screw it, I will), but Husk is described as "the old bartender," his voice sounds like it belongs to an old dude too, and he apparently died when he was like, 70, while Angel died in his 30's. I'm not gonna calculate their ages based on how it works in Hell because personally I feel like it doesn't matter. What matters is how old they were when they were alive. But however you decide to look at their ages, it's not just the implied enormous age gap that bothers me, no... it's more so the difference in maturity between Husk and Angel. Husk is described as a dude who has seen and experienced a lot of stuff. On the other hand, Angel is clearly immature and there is this weird... emotional imbalance between them? It's like a mentor dating his apprentice, at least that's how I see it. I'm not saying dating someone who's 40 years older than you is morally wrong (if you're both adults) but IT IS WEIRD imo, especially since Angel & Husk are not on the same page when it comes to life experience and maturity. Oh yeah, I also don't think Angel should be in any kind of romantic relationship... for his own good

[pan-catra]

one thing that this spop rewatch is really opening my eyes on is how hypocritical the Catra redemption discourse was back when the show was still airing. i could make a compilation of all the times Scorpia tries to murder someone in the Rebellion or Entrapta disregards basic morals to uphold her partnership with the Horde and yet they get passes in regards to their redemption while people complain about Catra not “deserving it”. and like, it’s literally only because Scorpia and Entrapta are nicer than Catra. if Catra wasn’t a huge bitch no one would be saying her redemption was rushed or undeserved. people care far more about personality than they do about actions.

[66kenobi66]

Adora if she still had scars (By: @/bravestshera)

Broke my heart :(

This one especially gave me chills

[spopsalt]

What show's title is vs how it actually is

What the show's title is: She-Ra and The Princesses of Power

What the show actually is: Watch Adora get abused by Cata for 5 seasons straight then date her abuser, also FEEL BAD FOR CATRA

What the show's title is: Helluva Boss

What the show actually is: Watch a gay soap opera while the abuser gets victimized and while the victim gets demonized. Watch the victim form a trauma bond with his abuser. ALSO DON'T YOU FEEL SO BAD FOR STOLAS DONT YOU WANT HIM AND BLITZO TO DATE!?

What the show's title is: Hazbin Hotel

What the show actually is: Watch who is supposed to be the female main character get pushed to the side because men. Get introduced to a whole Lotta plotholes and rushed story telling as we stuff the plot into the last 2 episodes! Enjoy the boring/rushed/toxic romances as well!

[cookie-nom-nom]

I wasn’t going to say anything but the take was dismal so:

“””the she ra reboot is oversexualized, it’s wrong to sexualize and homoeroticize teenagers. They should have been adults in the show””��

-the reboot is oversexualizing teenagers

Hilarious given the right wing melt down over it too being woke and ugly for *checks notes* giving She Ra shorts to wear, having muscles, and not massive boobs. Did we seriously forget the entire controversy about them not being sexy enough. Y’all. They were seething and whining.

We can have a conversation about sexualizing teenagers! That is a problem that exists, and there’s a tricky nuance to enforcing beauty standards on teens, fetishizing youth in a predatory way, and acknowledging that teens may want to explore their own sexuality and its healthy to do so. Just, I’m not convinced sexualization is happening in SPOP but sure, later outfit designs do start to show more skin. When they’re literally growing up because hey, the show covers a few years and the main cast is in the 20-21 range by the end. And even then like

If that’s the epitome of sexualization you might be a puritan.

-It is wrong to homoeroticize teenagers

Loud incorrect buzzer sound! Rumor has it teenagers can and will be gay! If your problem is with shipping fictional teenagers, say that. I can’t imagine anyone who has ever been in a fandom will agree, but at least it wouldn’t be homophobic.

-The show should have been about adults.

It’s. It’s literally about child soldiers. That’s literally what the show is about. Would it be the same if Catra was an adult? No, because her story is about an abused and traumatized teenager desperate to have enough power she can’t be hurt anymore. She is young and inexperienced and rebelling and making horrible, selfish choices and it’s so deeply tied into her age because she’s just now growing up enough to be strong and clever enough to flip the tables. Would it be the same if Adora was an adult? No, because her story is about the horror of a teenager being turned into an idol, into a weapon of war. We literally watch how that shapes her as she steps into adulthood. Would it be the same if Glimmer was an adult? No, because her arc is going from a rebellious teenager demanding to be taken seriously and have more control, to her struggling when she gets shoved into adulthood and queenhood far too young as she looses her only present parent.

No, the story about teen soldiers crumpling under the war they’ve grown up in would not be better if it was about adults, because it would HAVE to be a different story with different themes. If you want to say they shouldn’t have been hot while doing so, fine whatever, but eviscerating the core premise in order to ‘fix’ it is a disservice to the story.

[shyrgyrryn]

Me *moves on from She-Ra and disappointed that it was, watches Arcane because the new season seemed interesting*

*is disappointed in season 2 and watches in horror as the Arcane fandom becomes the She-Ra fandom 2.0 and fans are angry and dismissive over show criticism*

[antispopausandstuff]

people criticize Adora for not realizing the Horde // Shadow Weaver was evil and abusive, even after SW threatened Catra's life in front of her. ignoring the fact that there is a double standard ( y'know which one ), here's the thing:

Zuko acknowledged that he was burned by Ozai. but he was still within the cycle of abuse and didn't know it at the time.

victims are not oblivious // unknowing of every single thing. in fact, a lot of them know what their abuser is doing, even if they try to reason with it in a roundabout way ( such as, "my parent hit me because i was misbehaving" ).

and, besides, it is not at all possible for Adora to blame Catra for what happened. it's much more likely that she blamed herself, because Shadow Weaver didn't just threaten Catra, but essentially told Adora that it was her fault, because she 'has to keep her under control'.

we see no resentment from Adora about the situation. she just continues trying to comfort and protect Catra, while not at all thinking or catering to her own fears ( the fear that a death, Catra's death, would be on her hands ). there's not even a little room of blame because Adora automatically tried to play mediator without hesitation and tried to reason with her mother.

Rapunzel can be upset with Mother Gothel and not realized she's being abused.

Zuko can be upset with Ozai and not realized he's being abused.

Azula can be upset with Ozai and not realized she's being abused.

Amity can be upset with Odalia and not realized she's being abused.

Hunter can be upset with Belos and not realized he's being abused.

Jinx can be upset with Silco and not realized she's being abused.

victims can have a standard and not realized they're being abused.

abuse is not linear, especially when you love your abuser and hold them in higher regard than yourself.

Adora is allowed, more than allowed, to be upset with Shadow Weaver and be unaware that her and Catra were victims of abuse. because it is almost always difficult to see through tinted glass.

you need outside experience.

you need community.

you need support.

you need acknowledgement.

you need people to acknowledge your pain.

you need people to acknowledge your fears.

you need people to acknowledge your faults.

you need people to acknowledge your strengths.

you need people to acknowledge your heart.

you need people to acknowledge you as a person.

of course, i'm not saying that your recovery will be an easy breeze, even with all of that. but it will be far easier than if you do it alone.

people aren't all-knowing. in fact, there is still so much we don't know about others and ourselves.

to hold Adora to a higher standard than we can attain ourselves, while coddling and babying Catra instead, is unfair and anyone who does it should be ashamed of themselves.

if you are a victim, it's not your fault.

it just isn't.

[anti-catradora-collection]

just leaving this here.

[ratwithdrag0nwings]

Please don't attack this person.

Can C//A stop insulting Glimdora? Please???

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra.

grace monroe (infinity train) • black american

connie maheshwaran (steven universe) • indian-american

katara (avatar the last airbender) • inuk

wolf (kipo and the age of wonderbeasts) • black american

suhara/shadowsan (carmen sandiego) • japanese

korra (the legend of korra) • inuk

jesse cosay (infinity train) • indigenous (apache)

lars barriga (steven universe) • filipino

azula (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

ryan akagi (infinity train) • japanese-canadian

luz noceda (the owl house) • afro-dominican american

(there are a lot more, so i'll be making a part 2!)

[carto0ncritter]

I'm sorry but I genuinely can't understand how people can look at Stolitz and Catradora and think these ships are healthy in any way, shape or form.

Stolas r*ped Blitzø. No, consent given in a life-or-death situation doesn't count

Stolas is racist towards imps, and this didn't change even when he "fell in love" with Blitzø

Stolas doesn't appreciate or respect Moxxie and Millie in the slightest (and was disappointed that his "Prince Charming" wasn't the one to rescue him)

He looks down on Blitzø and calls him things like "impish little plaything" and "his big dicked Blitzy" and doesn't stop treating him like shit even when Blitzø says loud and clear that he hates being talked down on like this (DUH)

The only thing Stolas knows about Blitzø is that he hates books and the only thing Blitzø knows about Stolas is that he's a boring bookworm. Keep in mind, the two figured this out about each other while they were kids, 25 YEARS AGO, after Blitzø was bought so that he could be Stolas' "friend" for ONE DAY

Stolas doesn't love Blitzø for Blitzø. Stolas loves the *idea* of Blitzø. The bird man wants to live a romance that is just like the romances in his cheesy novels. He wants to ride into the sunset with his one true love. He wants grand romantic gestures. He wants his "Prince Charming". Except, Blitzø isn't the type of guy for such sappy displays of affection, he never was. Especially combined with his trauma. And as soon as that other imp guy asked him to dance, Stolas not only accepted the offer, but Blitzø was no longer on his mind. And no, I don't think being drunk is proof that Stolas didn't mean what he had told Blitzø. Drunk people find it easier to say what's really on their mind after all

Blitzø fell in love with his abuser. This makes sense, actually. The guy always pushed everyone away and never got to experience true love, and now that he has the chance to be "wanted," even if the "relationship" is toxic, he finds it hard to let it go

As for Catradora, the things I wanna say about this ship have already been said throughout the years, but it all boils down to these things:

Catra mentally, emotionally and physically abused Adora

Catra had no problem ending the whole entire universe if it meant she'd finally be better than Adora

Catra was a war criminal and a fascist

Catra was responsible for what happened to Glimmer's mom and never apologized, let alone faced consequences

Their relationship was toxic even when they were kids

They were both raised by Shadow Weaver and were the only ones in the Horde who saw her as a mother figure, thus making the ship straight up incest, with even the official source material calling them sisters (adoptive siblings ARE REAL SIBLINGS!!!)

Catra got exactly what she wanted in the end (the girl she's always been obsessed with and dependent on) and, once again, faced 0 consequences for her actions

The show (and C//A stans) fetishizes abuse. As a SA survivor, I felt physically sick during the final episode, where the abuser ends up with her victim/sister and they kiss

In short, these ships are disgusting and the lgbt community deserves better representation

[tooningin]

It’s done

I finally present… my spop season 5 review!

This is the first time I’ve ever done something like this so feedback would be highly appreciated and help me on future projects

@spop-romanticizes-abuse @spopsalt @anti-spop @anti-catradora-collection @antispopausandstuff @my-nitpicking-self

[66kenobi66]

C//A stans: Omg, Adora is such a ditz! She didn't even know she was GAY before her and Catra kissed 😂

Literally Adora every other episode:

[spopsalt]

Pffft what are you guys talking about? Catra and Adora never got together at the end of spop. Catra apologized to Adora and Adora didn't forgive her and Catra decided to go back to the Crimson Wastes. You guys are insane.

[thats-ill-eagle]

So, my youtube sometimes breaks and instead of the intended thumbnail, it shows me a random shot from the actual video. As a result, when I was browsing through SPOP content yesterday, I was unexpectedly blessed by this gem

(This is not a prieview btw, it literally showed me this Glimmadora shot as a thumbnail, instead of the intended one, which, if I remember correctly, is C*tra and Adora touching foreheads.)

Even Youtube knows C///A is not worth looking at and that Glimmadora is superior lmao