#Raph and Leo’s dynamic means so much to me it really does

[turtleblogatlast]

Here’s a thought-

When Splinter says Leo’s the leader at the end of Season 2…pretty sure he was joking.

After so many high stakes and high emotions, he (a bit cluelessly) makes a joke to add some levity, just to make things a bit easier for he and his sons to digest everything that happened. It was a lot that happened, so it makes sense that Splinter wants to make things that much softer for everyone.

But- making a joke like that, after everything they all just went through…I can definitely see how the events of the movie pave out in response.

For example, by joking about Leo in particular having the responsibility of a leader, that puts him directly in the sight of Raph’s building anxieties. Because after everything, it’s clear that Raph really started taking the hero name seriously to the point that he started undermining his own fun and childhood in the process. So in the eyes of a Raph who is so worried about what could happen if they’re not prepared again, Leo in particular kind of stands almost as a point of danger in that aspect.

And with the joke of Leo “leading” in any capacity ringing out over them, it’s easy to blame Leo and Leo alone whenever he goes and goofs off with Mikey and Donnie. I think as well that the concept of a leader being spoken after the Shredder just pushes more weight on Raph’s shoulders and makes him realize how much goofing off they did before when they should have been better heroes (despite them all just being kids...)

Raph knows his brothers are good, he knows and has pride in them and himself in turn, but it terrifies him to know that they won’t be ready for the next big threat, and Leo directly going against this caution even more than usual just pushes Raph to want to try more.

As for Leo- keep in mind what happened all throughout “Many Unhappy Returns.” Keep in mind what happened all throughout the series in general. In the former, Splinter more than once points out how he would rather have his other sons with him than Leo, especially because they “would take this seriously”…even though Leo was taking it seriously. (Not that Splinter should be expected to read what Leo was doing when Leo wasn’t making his plans clear, but that wording sticks with kids.) Even after Leo’s plan pulled through, Raph’s the one who spoke in trust of Leo, not Splinter.

As for what happens in the series in general…well, we see Leo mess up a lot, apologize a lot, get his brothers out of messes a lot, and even when he does well or is responsible it’s either glossed over or still seen as goofing off (no I will never be over that moment where Leo almost got Gus’s tags and got screwed over out of pure bad luck.)

So imagine hearing a joke like that as Leo, who for a good chunk of especially the start of the series has been a lowkey voice of reason. The idea that Leo being responsible for the team is nothing but a joke…? It’s understandable that it could feel like a blow, that it could push him to want to try less.

Especially after everything they just went through.

They’re heroes. | They’re kids.

Why shouldn’t they care? | Why should they care?

[blueberri-blu]

Hi Blue! It’s me again coming at you with another request!

This time around, I want it to be a ROTTMNT Leo x Reader. It takes place at the end of season two (and before the movie) and it has Leo trying to confess his love to the reader. He’s bad at it, but god bless him he’s trying his best.

And use writing prompt 1 in it. Thank you and have a nice day!

Hiiiii! Of course!,

Losing It ෆ๑

[rise] Leo x gn!reader

Prompt # 1: "I didn't think you were the type to lose your head over a s/o" "Neither did I"

ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ

"Hey y/n!" "Yea Leo?" "How much does a Polar Bear weigh?" "Probably like 200lbs or more, but how much?" "Ugh, you're such a nerd" "gee thanks Leon" "aanyway, no, they weigh just enough to break the ice" "hm?" "Hi, I'm Leo, and you're cute" *wink* "oh! Haha, good one Leo!"

Leo internally groaned

No matter how many pick up lines he used, you just wouldn't get the hint

I mean, sure, he flirted with everyone, but come on! You were the only one he flirted with while blushing, didn't you notice the tremble in his voice? His Shakey hands? Nothing?

Ugh, he really didn't want to have to be direct with you...

He was already a blushing mess just shooting pick up lines your way

How would he be if he was vulnerable in front of you, expressing his feelings... He'd only embarrass himself!

ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ

A couple of hours later and after dinner

Donnie sat on the couch with Mikey, Raph was picking up dishes, and you and Leo were sat on the floor

You were "watching" the end credits of a Jupiter Jim movie

And by watching, I mean Donnie was on his phone, you were trying to finish your pizza, and Mikey and Leo were whispering about something

>> "why don't you talk to them!! They obviously believe you do this to everyone!!" "Well, Yea, but how am I even supposed to tell them? Oh, hey, I'm a giant ninja mutant turtle man, you wanna go out with me ?!" "They already know you're a mutant!, they obviously don't care" "alright, Mikey-" "this is Dr. Delicate Touch, telling you to suck it the fuck up and tell them! No one can stand your constant cheesy pick up lines anymore!!" ":c"<<

As you finished your pizza, all you saw was this:

You quirked an eyebrow at Leo, and he just looked away, pretending to find something interesting on the empty wall

Recently, he had been avoiding you... Except for the uptake in cheesy pick up lines

Originally you thought he was upset with you but then...

You started connecting the dots, and, stupidly, came to the conclusion that Leo liked someone

It explained his avoidance, and the cheesy pick up lines? Well he was obviously practicing for the person he liked

ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ

You and Leo had this strange dynamic for about a month before you finally couldn't take it.

It was around 1 am, but you just couldn't stand your constant overthinking of the situation.

So, you decided to march down to the lair, and corner Leo into talking

Thankfully, Leo was only with Mikey on the skate ramp

However, Mikey fled the scene once he saw you marching towards Leo with a face of determination and possibly nerves but that's not the point

Leo was confused, but then looked at you and immediately started sweating bullets

You seemed... Upset to say the least, and the way your eyes were locked on his form, it was he's fault

He started stuttering out apologies, for what? He didn't know, but you being mad at him was the last thing he wanted

It was only when you yelled "WHO ARE THEY" with tears in your eyes was he very confused

"wha- who??" "Your... Whoever is you like!" "What are you talking about haha- I don't like anybody!"

You thought he was nervous before, oh honey, he was now pale and confused

Were you really this upset at knowing he likes you???

"you know! You've been practicing your pick up lines on me! You aren't spending time with me anymore! The constant whisper telling with your brothers, followed by you blushing from your ears to your neck!"

And it clicked

You didn't know

You were upset... That he liked someone else!

"uhm... Uh... Y/n, look, I.. uh"

You were full on crying now

"I uh.. I don't like... Someone else"

"what do you mean!"

"I... I mean that I... I... Uhm"

"has anyone called god?"

"...what?"

"because he's missing an angel... Uh... You... Hehe”

He was so red, and through your blurred vision you could see he was shaking..

"are... Are you saying what I think you're saying?"

"uhm.. I mean.. uh.. do you, do you wanna be my, my s/o? Maybe? If not thatstotallyoktheresnopressure"

"Leo... I... Of Course!"

It was the tightest hug you had ever given and recieved

He was twirling you around, happy tears falling down both of your cheeks .

Once you were both calmed down, you thought to yourself and then said

"I didn't think you were the type to lose your head over a s/o"

"Neither did I, mi amor, neither did I"

ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ๑ෆ

[bulbabutt]

ok i wanna talk about tmnt 2007 and the way i think this is the best version of a leo and raph conflict, and also leo as a character

for context i've been talking about tmnt things kinda chronologically, so i'm gonna mention an unconditional understanding in 03 i bring that up in a previous post about that show and the family dynamics in it here if u want context for what i mean

i think this movie can really be appreciated for the place it has between adaptations, and the way character-wise everyone is more or less the same as they've always been but with a more interpersonal relationship as the focus. the main villain of this movie doesn't really matter, the conflict, the fights, that's not where the strength is (although, it is reflected in the conflict and ill get into that)

so tmnt 07 is one movie that kind of combines the 90s movies, 03, and mirage all in one place, and tonally is is similar to the show that will come after it, 12. if the 90s movies give us conflict between leo and raph, and 03 gives us the unconditional understanding between the two, 07 takes these two aspects and creates a story out of it. (debate in your own mind if this movie is a literal sequel to the 90s ones or not, its not that important)

the set up of this movie is we are in a post killing the shredder world. leo has been told by splinter to go get training elsewhere, there isn't much context for what happened to cause this, but i would bet its a similar cause to 03, where he had ptsd and lashed out at his father to which splinter sends him to his grandfather to get better advice than he thinks he can give him. the difference here is there is no grandfather hes sent to, he's sent on a journey of self discovery around the world to learn about it and himself.

the thing about leo as a character, and this goes for all leos, he's has a very black and white way of thinking. leo thinks he's been sent away because he's failing his family, that he's not a good enough leader. so he stays away for longer because he doesn't feel good enough. he finds a place where he can help and he does that. leo always needs a bad guy to fight, or else he's fighting his own demons. so he stays there for a long time. finding a place he can help quietly, never letting anyone see him, and becoming a legend to the locals because no one knows what's really going down.

april manages to track him down and tell him about whats going on with his brothers, how they're holding up without him and without being a team, and i think thats a good reminder for him that they miss him. he doesn't tell april but he finds a way home only after hearing about this. when he arrives and speaks to splinter, he says "i was so caught up in my own world i forgot about everyone else, i'm sorry i failed" he still doesn't feel like he's done anything of worth.

i'm gonna jump in here and say, you know how we all love rise raph? cuz hes the big brother and some traits that come from that are like being overprotective and taking on everyone else's problems and trying to handle emotions alone? well that's a trait thats usually leo's. but the difference with leo is sometimes that concept doesn't make you as likeable. sometimes it means you come off like a nagging mother hen who thinks they know best but in an arrogant way. sometimes it makes you mirror being a parent when no one asked you to be. leo's less of a passionate character than raph, hes more analytical and full of himself. he takes splinters lessons more seriously, and hes always trying to do whats best for everyone so they don't have to worry. this is something evident with 03 and 12, but its so specifically noticeable here because these traits make up the main conflict. i just want to bring that up so we start seeing leo as no different than some of our other favourite iterations.

splinter responds to his apology by saying "you owe me no apology, but perhaps you should talk to raphael, your absence has been particularly difficult for him, though he'll never admit it" but when leo greets him raph is brushing him off.

on raph's end, this is him being angry that leo left, and angry that hes back and everyone wants to pretend that he wasn't gone at all. as if the time he was gone didn't happen. hes lashing out because he too cant handle talking about these emotions. and hes lashing out by becoming a vigilante in his own right.

i see a lot of people misunderstand what raph is doing here, that "this is what the turtles always do" or "this is the same as what leo was doing how could he be mad" when that is not true. that's what casey does. its true that both leo and raph have been fighting bad guys on their own (as a way of dealing with their issues) but raphael has made himself a costume to disguise himself which means hes prepared to be seen. hes riding a motorcycle around, which is loud. this isn't stealthy, this is aggressive. his vigilante name is in the news. the turtles are ninjas, they silently help where they can and fade into the night and, very specifically, they work as a team. these turtles live in a dangerous world, what if something happened to him while no one else was around? they would never know because he never told anyone.

so raph is lashing out, and leo doesn't have a good way of dealing with it. he tries to slide back into being leader, doing what splinter says but he forgets how his brothers are, and with raph egging them on they get into fights they shouldn't. which leo specifically gets in trouble for, as the oldest brother, and as their leader. leo tries to be this better leader hes supposed to have learned to be, but it doesn't work and raph ends up back out there in his vigilante get up. leo tracks down said vigilante, and in his peak "leo knows best" moment, lectures him, not knowing its his brother. there's a scuffle, and the mask comes off. let me point out that casey knew this vigilante was raph but his own brother didn't, because leo has been gone that long.

so lets get into what this fight is really about. on the surface, its "wow you've been going out at night alone putting yourself in dangerous situations with no backup" and "so what you're just mad that i can do it without you" which leo would be right about. and this is the analytical leo, he really thinks that's all that's going on here. what hes missing is that raphael has missed him as a brother, and hes hurt that leonardo left and just came back no big deal. that he wants everything to be normal. raphael is always a character with big emotions and the only outlet he knows to express them is violence.

leo, who as we've established, went away to learn to be better for his family is angry that raph doesn't see that. he's mad raph doesn't appreciate the effort he went to, and he thinks he's just angry because he's not in charge. each brother sees the other as being arrogant.

this leads them to the big fight. no one can disagree that this is the best part of the movie (seriously watch the movie for this scene if you haven't seen it before) , but the real best part of it is that raphael wins. raph proves hes just as capable of a fighter as his brother, if not more-so. he uses those sais as they're supposed to be used, catching leo's swords and in a fit of rage he fucking breaks them, leaving leo defenceless and completely vulnerable to attack. you'd think he'd be smug that leo lost but he pauses, going through a lot of emotions in a moment, questioning what he's doing, why hes doing it. and leo finally looks his brother in the eye and sees raph going through something he didn't before, realizing raph hasn't been angry that he's back, but that he's angry that he ever left. they don't have a conversation, because raph cant handle all these emotions and he runs away, crying as he does. leo just watches him, taking it all in and realizing the error of his ways.

hearing leo scream turns raph around, but he's too late to help him, and this is where raph regrets his own actions because right then, leo is also proven right in his argument. because he gets kidnapped. if leo hadn't chased raph down, there is a very good chance that would have been raph being kidnapped. with no backup, with no one knowing what happened to him. that's why its important that the turtles are a team.

raph goes home full of guilt, and there's a good moment of showing how he cannot open up emotionally here, because he grunts, punches the wall, knocks over some weights and forces splinter to ask him what happened, because that's how raphael is. he laments to his father that he finally understands why leo is the better son, proving that to raph none of this was about their team, but about their family. conflating the two ideas in his head. splinter gives him a talk that mirrors what he said to leo when he returned earlier in the movie, encouraging him that he is a good son and brother. this shows that these brothers have very similar insecurities about their value to their family.

the rest of the movie plays out as you expect, they go save leo, they stop the bad guy, they reconcile and behave as the team they're supposed to be. but i just want to point out that the villains plot is mirrored in leo and raph's conflict. the 'villain' here is a brother who has been cursed to be immortal without his own siblings. for 3000 years he lived to regret his actions and decided to undo his curse, but he used the cursed stone versions of his siblings to do so. no communication, just thinking he knew better (which maybe he did) and lying about it. that caused them to lie to him right back, and try to overthrow him and destroy the world. this is just one family whose inner turmoil could have destroyed the world. you might say, oh that's not a very interesting turtles villain, but its not supposed to be. its not the focus.

this movie is all about the complicated relationship between a family, and i see so many people talk about it by trying to ask who's right and who's wrong. that's not how it works. life is more complicated than that, people are more complicated than that. its boring to look at this movie and just say "leo is wrong and raph is right" because that's not even how the characters see it. this movie is about leo and raph being mirrors of each other in their arrogance, in their insecurities, and in their stubborn pig-headed refusal to let the other know how they feel. splinter says as much at the start of the movie. this whole movie shows that without each other, they need to be fighting something so they don't get swept up by their own emotions, which they are both bad at processing. they are SUCH brothers. they are so similar emotionally, yet they have such a hard time understanding each other.

personally 07 leo is my favourite leo for his complexity, his flaws his strength, his growth. its sad we never got those sequel movies to get into the other brothers heads as much as we got into leo and raphs heads.

also nolan north and james arnold taylor gave the best vocal performances in this movie and they deserve all the credit for it.

[paintedkinzy-88]

I have a 12AM idea that I’ll never do anything with but I want everyone to suffer with me.

When Splinter got the Rise boys, he assumed their ages based on their size: Raph was oldest, then Donnie, then Leo, and then Mikey. And April was their big sister. They’ve lived by this standard, it has always been true, no one has questioned it, and everyone ultimately likes their role!

Ya got big, protective, teddy bear older brother; book smart, chaotic, but also very protective older twin; street smart, also chaotic, gremlin child, gay younger twin; and the emotionally smart, empathetic, impressionable, heart of the group youngest.

Then Mikey befriends/reverse-adopts Draxum. Who looks at them like they are stupid when he hears this family dynamic... And proceeds to absolutely shatter their world. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Leo hatched first, by a significant amount of time, making him the oldest, then Raph, then Donnie, and Mikey stays the youngest. Like so many other TMNT iterations. Rise!Splinter just got it wrong.

Cutting so this isn’t super long on my page:

Now Raph is struck with this realization that he may be the biggest brother, but he is not the big brother. And that’s been like. His thing. Protecting his younger bros, always being there for his younger bros, keeping this damn family in line, laying down punishments and lectures and the such when need to or when Splinter isn’t there. But that’s no longer his responsibility. That was never his responsibility. But he doesn’t want to give that up! He doesn’t think he CAN tone that down and be more carefree (more than he already is I mean, bro is still a kid).

Donnie has been shot down from his title of big brother and oldest twin. He is now one of the youngest. He may not be as commanding as Raph, but he was sure as shit the second in command a lot of the time. Aside from his chaotic, semi-lethal tendencies, Raph could usually trust him to keep himself and the others in line when it really matters. Heck, Donnie was probably the one Raph took to the surface the most to get supplies once he hit a less shy age, because Donnie wouldn’t wonder off like the others. But now, what he has known as truth is not accurate at all. He’s more shaken by the fact they’ve all been wrong for their entire lives, and that he’s the younger twin (no, he’s not even a twin at all, why does that freak him out so much), so he doesn’t really fear any relationship between them changing.

Leo has the most dramatic change though… He’s one of the goofballs! Both a younger brother and a middle child, thriving in the childish chaos and vague invisibility as he’s able to generally be silly and not face consequences. He doesn’t have those expectations on him, nor does he want it like Raph does! But now, he’s been shoved to the top. Is he supposed to be like Raph now? Does he have to take total control? Be more responsible, more genuinely confident, more practical? The thought alone is stressing him tf out. He was already questioning his role on the team, he doesn’t need to feel like he’s REALLY been doing less than he should have been!

Meanwhile, Mikey’s watching his family fall apart and bicker and stress themselves out.

Ultimately, they decide it doesn’t fuckin matter. They are comfortable in their family roles, and that doesn’t need to change. The whole situation may have brought some concerns to light (namely: Raph’s stress, Leo’s insecurity and invisibility, Donnie’s need to fix everything to support them all, and Mikey’s overwhelming emotional empathy) but that’s probably for the better!

Still, that bombshell definitely screwed up the family for a good few weeks while they figured themselves out all over again.

[imagionationstation]

Hi IS!! I seriously hope you're actually taking a break from Tumblr and social media instead of reading this haha, but I've been a follower for a few months now and couldn't help but send in a little post after seeing your rant. As someone who grew up with 2012 and adores it, and also as someone who respects Rise for what it is, I understand. 2012 is a huge comfort show to me and I've definitely gotten upset when all people do is go out of their way to tell you how horrible the show is without reason. 2012 is by no means perfect!! I am extremely aware of its flaws, but I don't believe that gives anyone permission to go out of their way just to ruin it for you. To target the one criticism that drives me a bit nuts, the "real brothers" thing. Rise has a very valid interpretation of brothers! But as someone with 3 other siblings, it is not sunshine and rainbows all the time. My older siblings would make me cry, we would fight and get hurt and hurt each other all of the time, my younger sibling would tattle on me, etc etc. But we also look out for each other, and have grown out of many of those things since then. I see a lot of my own sibling situations in 2012. Sure, it doesn't get everything right (and can be purposefully exaggerated because it is a cartoon!!), but it isn't wrong either. Everyone has different family experiences, and believing that Rise is the only correct interpretation of siblings would just be a bit narrow minded. I have many, many more points I could make in regards to the sibling ordeal (and other criticisms you mentioned!) but I'll leave it here for now. Overall, just enjoy what you want to enjoy! This goes for everyone. Someone is always going to want to rain on your parade, don't give them the power to do it. It's so much easier and less tiring to spend your time enjoying something you love over dunking on something you hate. :)

Thank you <3

As I mention over here, not really in a place to drop it yet, but I may sometime in the future. Your support is greatly appreciated!

As someone who grew up with 2012 and adores it, and also as someone who respects Rise for what it is, I understand. 2012 is a huge comfort show to me and I've definitely gotten upset when all people do is go out of their way to tell you how horrible the show is without reason.

Exactly! I have nothing against rottmnt. RISE is a great addition to the TMNT fandom. It has its highs and lows like anything else. It didn't deserve the dislike that many fans gave it in the beginning.

So why does 2012 deserve the exact same treatment after its time is over? Why doesn't it deserve the same respect for its diversity?

They experimented with some awesome and iffy things.

Some things worked and others didn't. Why can't we leave it at that?

I try and read the opinions that say "I like this, this, and this, but-" and ignore anything that is pure hate or comes from an account that has never said a single nice thing about the show.

But even then, it's often always the same old list of complaints.

And, like, Donnie is downright awful with his comebacks but sometimes I find myself doing the daily quote thing to the screen when I come across someone who is being supremely unreasonable.

(Not that I'd ever actually say that to anyone. It's my stress vice.

But. I definitely think it. Very hard.)

To target the one criticism that drives me a bit nuts, the "real brothers" thing.

EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH BRINGS ME AN UNNAMABLE JOY.

You hit the nail right on the head!!

My family dynamic is so similar to these boys. One of my siblings very seriously told me a few days ago that I am not at all attractive, but a few weeks ago, the same sibling also reassured me that I deserved a love interest so much better than any person the world has handed me. Freakin' Raph impersonator over here.

Literally, I have siblings who interact like Leo and Raph. Constantly trying to be the superior in the relationship and hating when the other bosses them around. But you'd almost never find them apart because they are the other's shoulder to lean on.

I'm not anyone innocent either. I've said lots of things that I didn't mean in the past and I still slip up from time to time. I'm the type of person to be annoyed with a sibling and smack/shove them. My siblings do the exact same! Teasing and mocking and crude words aren't anything crazy. It's just how our fam do family.

I have a sibling who is just as insane and annoying as Mikey, but it's so frustrating because he's either purposefully stirring chaos and then laughing when we get upset, or so innocent and confused when I'm getting mad at him for doing something similar a while later.

We get so tired of it. But it's not his fault. He's untreated ADHD and lives his life to the fullest. What you gonna do? Stifle that? Please.

We get so tired of each other.

But we're always the first to have each others' backs.

Overall, just enjoy what you want to enjoy! This goes for everyone. Someone is always going to want to rain on your parade, don't give them the power to do it. It's so much easier and less tiring to spend your time enjoying something you love over dunking on something you hate. :)

Thank you so much. I always try to remind myself of that, but some days it can be hard. I really appreciate your kind words! I hope anyone reading this is also making note of them.

I don't ever want to be a hater.

Going giddly over the boys being themselves is so much more fun.

[fabuloustrash05]

ROTTMNT Love Interests Headcanon

If the Rise boys were ever given love interest, here’s who I headcanon they should’ve been and what their dynamic would be like:

Note: Raph and Mikey's love interest are my OCs/HCs of a Rise version of existing characters.

Leo’s love interest would be Yuichi

Leo met Yuichi through Hueso, who Yuichi works for as a new waiter for his restaurant in the Yokai city

Suddenly Leo constantly wants to go to Hueso's restaurant for lunch/dinner and his brother quickly figure out it's only because he wants to gawk at the cute new waiter.

Leo is overly flirty but Yuichi doesn’t notice him, not that he’s uninterested, it’s just he has lots of admirers, so sadly Leo in the beginning blends into the crowd.

It’s not until Leo takes a more forward approach by hitting on him with a cheesy pick up line, then proceeds to trip over himself and be humiliated by everyone, except Yuichi. He found the act endearing and Leo has now caught his eye.

Yuichi finds Leo annoying at first, but also charming/endearing thought he hates to admit it

*flirts* *flirts back* “I was not expecting this outcome, tf I do now??”

Leo tells a dumb joke and Yuichi thinks he’s a comedic genius.

They spar together, exchanging sword fighting tips/techniques

Hueso is their third wheel

Raph’s love interest would be Mona Lisa

My HC on how they first met (I guess you could say she really FELL for him ;D )

Mona is obviously in love with him but Raph is painfully oblivious. Everyone knows she likes him except Raph.

“She’s just a really good friend!” *said "friend" is wearing a shirt that says "I <3 Raphael"*

Raph would be very obvious to Mona's flirtatious actions towards him and not realize he's being hit on. Everyone knows Mona likes him, except Raph himself.

It took Raph a whole year to realize he liked Mona too. His bros can't comprehend his obviously stupidity when he asked his bros if he should ask Mona out and says he's worried she doesn't like him back (Raph end up freaking out and nearly faints when his bros tell him Mona has liked him the entire time)

She fell first, but he fell harder

For a while, Raph is conflicted with asking her out for a few reasons:

1) “What if she lost interest in me and I’m too late?!”

2) He feels he’s too busy as the oldest to have a relationship but his brothers encourage him to ask her out because him having a GF does not mean he’s being selfish for doing something for himself that makes him happy.

3) Mona’s got an overprotective father who hates the idea of his daughter dating. He liked Raph better when he was just her friend, but when Raph started having feelings for Mona he became a threat.

Eventually Raph does asks Mona out and she says yes! They become boyfriend and girlfriend shortly after their first date.

Everyone feels a wave of relief and satisfaction when these two FINALLY get together! "IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME!" But everyone soon realized that they are annoying as a lovey dovey couple, "Stop shoving your happiness in our faces!!"

Donnie’s love interest would be Kendra

Partners in crime, on again off again romance

Fake dating trope in the beginning with them both having plans to steal each others tech, “I’ll woo him/her and when they’re off his/her guard, I’ll robbed them!”

They actually start to fall in love with each other, but then the truth comes out and they “break up”

Now constantly bicker anytime they see each other, blaming the other for the betrayal and “break up”

Check out my post on how I HC they first started “dating”

*Cue “True Love” by P!nk*

Argues then proceeds to make out then argue again

They are the first couple to get together, but them being really officially together is a secret. They secretly date after their first "break up" and everyone doesn't find out about them until much later on, to which Donnie just mentions he's actually dating Kendra so nonchalantly while everyone just looks on at him with shock. This is after Leo x Yuichi and Raph x Mona became couples.

Mikey’s love interest would be Renet

Renet is a human orphan who grew up in the Yokai City and is practicing to become a witch, specifically a time witch!

They met when Mikey was in the Yokai city and came across Renet when she was practicing her magic spells (aka she fell on top of him when practicing a teleportation spell)

Everyone struggles to figure out if they are dating or just REALLY close.

Best friends, goofy dummies who eventually fall in love with one another slowly over time

Innocent young love. A playground crush.

Mikey hangs out with her a lot because he likes her. He doesn’t realize he likes her and no one tries to tell him cause they thought he knew he liked her

Act like a couple loooooong before they even become a couple.

“Are you two dating or just friends?” “Yes”

That tweet of that girl asking her bf if they are dating (they are living together and have a kid) cause they never confirmed they are boyfriend and girlfriend, so when she asked the bf he responds by fist pumping his chest, giving her a peace sign and saying "we're just Bros"

[nostalgicninjas]

2012 Leorai Rant

there’s so much discourse about whether 2012 leorai is considered incest or not and i kinda wanted to throw my two cents in ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i grew up with the 2012 series, and as a kid, i was a hardcore leorai fan. now as an adult, i’ve become neutral to the ship (though it will always hold a special place in my heart for nostalgic purposes). overall my thoughts/perspective on leorai have changed a lot over the years. i’ve grown to ship them more with other people (‼️ aprinardo and shinirai supremacy ‼️) while still loving and appreciating their canon dynamic. personally, i don’t view their relationship as entirely platonic or romantic. on one hand, i believe leo and karai do love each other like family (the same way all the turtles love april and casey like family) but they also connect on a deeper level that’s too intimate to call them “siblings”. it’s not as black and white as them being either brother/sister or boyfriend/girlfriend. to me, their relationship has so many layers it’s too complex for labels. which is fine because labels are overrated anyway. but that’s just my opinion.

i completely get why some people (especially those with adopted family members) think the relationship is weird, and i also get why some people see no problem with it. at the end of the day, it all depends on an individual’s life experiences or personal preferences.

note: if two people are biologically blood relatives, then an intimate/sexual relationship between them is 100% incest and i do not support or condone such behavior.

in this particular case however, i believe there is a difference between real incest and what society views to be incest. imagine two people have been dating for a while and then their parents fall in love and decide to get married. are they supposed to just turn their feelings off for each other and break up because they are now “technically siblings”? i’m sorry to break it to you but that’s not how emotions work. emotions are complicated. and frankly it seems wrong to try to force two people to think/feel a certain way about each other just because it’s what society excepts. i have always been a firm believer that people should be free to follow their hearts and love who they love. if there is no blood or biological connection involved (or any other illegal factors), then i see no reason why people can’t be free to choose how they get to view a person or how they wish for those relationships to develop. because in this case, love is not a crime.

in a way, the same can be said for leo and karai. first impressions count for something, and leo had already developed feelings for karai long before he found out she was splinter’s daughter. i know most people would disagree, but just because they view the same man as a father figure does not make them obligated to view each other as siblings. just because mikey CHOOSES to view karai as a sister does not mean leo is obligated to view her the same way. same goes for raph and donnie. from what was shown in the series, those two (especially raph) hardly considered karai to be a part of their immediate family, much less considered her a sister. and that’s their right. as much as i’m sure we all wanted to see the turtles and karai come together (and trust me i did too), donnie and raph had valid reasons to dislike/distrust karai and they shouldn’t be forced to brush their justified feelings aside and immediately accept her as a “sister” if they don’t want to. they may view her as an ally/asset to the team, but if they don’t want to view her as family, then they shouldn’t have to (though i’m sure they would eventually accept her in the future; whether or not as a sister or just a distant family member, we’ll never know).

i even once saw an anti shipper say that if shipping leorai isn’t incest because they aren’t blood related, then it shouldn’t be considered incest when shipping the turtles with splinter since they also aren’t blood related. that’s a really gross comparison for multiple reasons but mainly;

1.) the turtles are all MINORS and splinter is a grown ass man which is reason enough because W T F

and

2.) splinter has always viewed the turtles as his children and the turtles have always viewed him as their father. for him to suddenly take any kind of sexual interest in them is downright predatory, blood or no blood.

as for the whole “whether or not they share dna” debate, that’s honestly up to interpretation. splinter was never actually seen touching the turtles, so it’s not a canon fact that they actually absorbed any of his human dna when they mutated. and even if they had, the notion that this automatically makes them biological relatives to splinter is actually quite comical. that’s like saying the radioactive spider that gave peter parker superpowers is suddenly his new father. sounds silly, doesn’t it?

overall, i hate it when careless leorai fans make insensitive statements about adopted families, and i also hate it when anti shippers treat leorai fans like freaks just for having a different perspective on their relationship. if you prefer to think of them as brother and sister, then that’s cool. we’re all entitled to our opinions. what’s not cool is constantly harassing fans of the ship and shoving your “sibling” agenda down their throats (and vice versa).

to borrow a paragraph from @orokukarai’s rant:

If the ship makes you uncomfortable, whether it's for personal reasons or you're just not vibing, that's OK. If you personally see it as incestual, that's valid. But going around saying Leorai shippers all like or support incest is not true and there are many valid readings where they're not incestual even if you disagree with them. Some shippers probably do like incest, but then so do many non-Leorai shippers.

in conclusion, respect other people’s opinions. if you stumble across content you don’t like, block or ignore it. no need to comment hate or fill up the ship hashtags with negativity (and that goes for ALL fandoms).

just stay in your lane and keep scrolling ✌️

[pumpkinpie59]

while everyone likes to crap on leo/rai (for good reason) and on apritello for being cringe ig

i feel like one thing every 2012 ship has a problem with is pacing

yes i mean every ship

it’s clear that the 2012 writers don’t rlly know how to commit to romantic subplots so they either go the “they are super into each other right off the bat so there’s little build up” angle or the “will they won’t they,, but we’ll never show them actually get together” angle

i’m not saying these are atrociously bad or anything but it can be really annoying in the long run

apritello is the entire reason i got into 2012 when i was 11 lmao so it got stale for me when the show focuses less and less on their development since they didn’t want to commit to an actual subplot after the bigfoot fiasco. they both grow, sure, but it’s pushed to the background and we never see them talk about it. instead we get a kiss in a non-canon music video ://

dw apritello i still love you

with ramona, while it’s incredibly sweet how in love they are, the pacing of their first episode was ,,,, bad lol. the first time i watched it i was so underwhelmed i was like,,, this gets better?? right?? and it did but yeah i think that first episode for sure needed tweaking.

and more mona would’ve been great too. she needed some character exploration outside of her relationship with raph,, like having her talk more with the other characters her age (i would kill for april and mona content). i’m not saying she doesn’t have depth. she does. but a lot of it gets pushed to the background for her dynamic with raph.

they just didn’t even try with mikey and renet i’ll be real. they threw renet in there as a love interest and then kept making her and mikey kinda go in circles with their interest in each other. they’ll be cute and close in some scenes and then renet will act like she’s just humoring him while mikey kinda forgets about her when shini shows up.

i think renetangelo is cute to some extent (tho i do dislike 2012 mikey a bit so that doesn’t help) but time travel romances are automatically rlly hard to write well and since 2012’s romance writing is already messy, they weren’t going to do well. and renet herself is automatically more interesting when she’s not interacting with mikey. like her platonic dynamic with leo?? adorable. my favorite renet is 2003 and she’s not a love interest and she’s so charming!! renet is just a fun quirky friend of the turtles.

y’all know i love a lot of tmnt love interests so the fact that i prefer renet as a friend prolly says a lot about how she should be written gjdkdk

i don’t wanna talk about leo/rai much, but other than the glaringly bad i/ncest issue (both siblings and cousins), they just weren’t very good as a romantic dynamic either?

like yeah i’m biased bc lotus is the only leo love interest i will ever accept (and also leo/rai is gross lol)

but like ,,, with karai, leo saw her as an escape from being a leader so he can explore his rebellious streak. which is interesting! but unlike with lotus, leo was willing to betray her behind her back, and karai was willing to manipulate him to do what she wanted him to. but okay that’s getting off topic. back to the pacing,,

season 1 gets a pass for me since i actually love the pacing of season 1 alone (like honestly, after the cousin reveal, there wasn’t any romance up until season 2 from my memory,, and even before that after karai betrayed leo and the other brothers found out, leo wasn’t into her,, it was his brothers who were making fun of him), but afterwards, season 2 onward,the timing of leo/rai moments were always a slap in the face bc they were always. ALWAYS. right after they acknowledged her as family THRJEKSJDJDKSK

but yeah i think pacing is the worst problem of 2012 ships :p

obviously some other problems too, like sexism lol. but pacing is most glaring for me

[3lectricinsomnia]

For the TMNT ask game:

4.) When did you become a fan of TMNT?

18.) Who is your favorite villain?

19.) Who is your favorite ally?

27.) What is something you love to see in TMNT art/fics?

28.) What is one thing you would like to see explored more in TMNT art/fics?

33.) What is your favorite thing you've made for TMNT?

35.) Which character relationships are your favorite to write/draw?

Sorry there's so many 😅 You don't have to answer all of them if you don't want to.

Also, I just want to say that I absolutely LOVE your art and writing. It is so good and I finally started reading the fic (it has been in my saved tab for so long because I was in the middle of reading another fic and I'm a slow reader) and I am so excited to read the rest of it!!

Anywizzle 😅 I hope you have a great rest of your day/night :]

Hii! This means so much to me thank you 🥺💞✨ I’d love to answer these!

4. I became a tmnt fan around the time the Rise movie was released! Teaa and I had binged the tv show since it was available on Netflix and I enjoyed it so so soo much

18. Kendra and Draxum are my favorite villains <3

19. CASEYY

27. I love it when artists/writers incorporate their own headcanons in their writing an designs. Everyone’s just so creative

28. I don’t have anything in mind for this one I think everyone does a pretty good job at exploring different aspects of the fandom

33. In terms of writing, EMD is definitely my favorite thing! In terms of art, these are some of my favorite non-EMD related pieces

35. I haven’t been in the tmnt fandom for very long so I don’t have much experience writing anything outside of EMD but I love exploring Leo and Donnie’s relationship! I also really like Leo and Raph’s dynamic so I’d love to explore it some more. I have a few old pieces with Leo and Donnie that I haven’t shared because they’re super old but…

And one with Leo and Raph that I probably won’t finish so I might as well share it </3

:)

[bluepeachstudios]

Wait wait I love reading anaylsises!

I read one of your ask’s responses and now kinda want a 2003 Leo and Mikey analysis

Mikey and Leo became my fave 2003 characters because of their dynamic. I really liked that one Superhero episode where Leo tags along and the Grudge Match

GOD THe Nobody Episode is SO funny to me!! Leo's trying to look all cool in front of this Superhero and Mikey's just being a lil dork (affectionate) and Leo's like "Mikey stoooop you're embarrassing me in front of the cool superhero >:( "

Leo thinks Nobody is cool as hell but doesn't want anyone to know that. Mikey is unabashedly a fan and Leo kinda wishes he could be like that but he has to maintain his Big Brother Cool Guy Image(tm).

Mikey and Leo's dynamic is beautiful. They often act as Big Brother and Little Brother, but Mikey is well aware that Leo's responsibility allows him to have fun and goof around like he wants to. Mikey looks up to Leo because of this, even if he does tease him about it. Mikey's story about Leo in "Tales of Leo" is about him trying to get Leo's attention! He's just!!! SO baby brother to him.

Leo!! LOVES!! HIS!! BROTHER!! So much! During "Grudge Match", Leo is in the middle of his Trauma Arc(tm). He has not been interacting with his brothers like normal, he's been intense on training, he hasn't been speaking with them much. He's taken his responsibility on tenfold and is trying to act more like their mentor and protector than their brother.

Mikey pleads for help and the rest of them blow him off because they feel like he deserves the loss. Leo knows, though. Leo knows that Mikey can't stand to lose, Mikey NEEDS to keep this title because it's so important to him that one day he was THE BEST. Somewhere, he is Known and loved by people other than his family and that means the world to him and Leo knows. He knows what it feels like to lose something that feels integral to who you are at this point.

He trains Mikey hard, but he's completely confident in him. He knows Mikey can do this, he's the only one who makes it obvious that he believes Mikey can do this while the rest of the family continues to goof on him. Leo just. Agh. He KNOWS. And he softens the hard walls he's built up around himself to show his little brother that he's so proud of him, and believes in him as much as Mikey believes in him, and he smiles. One of the only times he does during the Trauma Arc. (other than at Usagi but I've pushed that agenda before)

AND MIKEY!! In "Samurai Tourist", MIKEY KNOWS. He knows why Leo is training so hard, he knows why he's taken on all the responsibility, why he's cracked under the pressure, why he's punishing himself! He knows he can't do anything about it. He can't help Leo like Leo helped him in "Grudge Match", but he can sure as hell defend him to Don and Raph, just like Leo defended him.

Mikey and Leo have SUCH a good dynamic in 2003. They look up to each other, they love and defend each other, they're the two best fighters but Leo and Mikey both know that Mikey slacks because he can afford to, because Leo is there. And later on, Leo learns that Mikey can be there for him too.

I could go on forever about them but this is already very fucking long fhgkdfhg don't send me off on sibling dynamics with the 2003 boys I will Go Off.

[angelmichelangelo]

LEO AND MIKEY MEAN SO MUCH TO ME you get it. you really get it. if you feel up to it i’d love if you had anything written about rise leo and mikey and their dynamic. i think about post-movie stuff so offen

LEO MIKEY TIME LEO MIKEY TIME :D enjoy!

x

In a very small fraction of a second, everything changes.

Not thirty milliseconds ago was Leo preparing himself to die. Gonzo. The Big Sleep. The very, lasting End of his life, when there’d been a crackle of hot electricity bursting through the air and so many pairs of hands bruising against skin to yank him back,

Home. The stink of the sewage reserve and overly polluted air that has the undertones of gasoline and smoke — he lands on his shell with a rattled thud, and is almost instantly scooped up by the larger sets of hands: Raph.

“Leo?” His face comes into full view as he cradles him, face taut with worry, each syllable of his name is said with a wobble of concern. “Leo, are you alright? Oh god, I thought we lost you.”

Leo blinks. The sky is no longer a rusty red, the taste of something metallic has since sunk down into his gut, rather than lingering and pooling in his mouth. He swallows, and everything hurts all at once, but he manages to knit himself a frown to match his inwardly confusion.

“Wha—”

Raph pulls him to his body with ease. His arms so gentle as they rest around his limp, aching body. He doesn’t hug back, only because he can’t find even a smidge of energy to do so.

“Mike got you home,” Raph says through happy tears. He can’t see them, not in the way his face was currently pressed tightly into the crook of his shoulder like he was never going to let go, but he knows all his brothers tells without a second glance. “Mikey portaled you home and—”

Something heavy hits the concrete. The sound of a chain spilling against the ground. There’s Donnie’s voice, clipped and short and surprised when he calls out,

“Problem! Problem!”

Raph untangles himself from Leo, a sharp breath snagged and tangled in his vocal cords, it comes out all strangled sounding. Leo forces his neck to move to the left, ever nerve ending firing off at once like a fireworks display, he does it because Raph launches himself upwards without hesitation.

“Michael? Michael!! No, no. C’mon!”

There’s that sudden, frightful urgency creeping back into his tone once again.

Leo can’t hold himself up any longer without Raph supporting him like he once was, so he slowly drifts back to the ground, staring at an unchanged sky whilst chaos continues to erupt around him.

“—get them home, now! Call dad on the way—” Donnie is barking orders fiercely and if Leo had even just a fraction of a smidge of that wonderful energy he was so very much missing right now, he might just tease him for it.

He hears the sound of his brother’s whimpering cry, far away sounding and pained, and Leo closes his eyes, not meaning to fall asleep.

But he does, anyway.

When he wakes up it’s no longer on the side of the dock bay where the air was salty and warm, but instead, in Donnie’s room. Where it definitely smelt worse, in his own humble opinion.

“Yeah, right.” A voice comes from the other side of the room. Leo gingerly lifts his head up, everything feeling so cumbersome and impossible. Donnie is perched in one of the beanbag chairs, flicking through a magazine he was barely skimming over with a quick darting of his eyes.

He pauses to look over towards his brother, expression softening for just a small moment.

“You were saying my room smelt. Something like saltwater and humble pie.” He sets the book down onto the end table. “You’re delirious with pain so I’ll let it slide.”

Leo hums, dropping his head back again, his eyes slowly pinching together, he tries to knit together some kind of coherent blanket of thoughts and memories as to what had happened.

“You passed back out on the way home.”

Donnie’s standing now beside the bedside, googles torn off from where they were usually perched on the come of his head, he’s lacking his usual bandana; a nebula of purple rings swallow up most of his eyes, both bruises from battle and no doubt the stress. He runs a hand tiredly down the entire length of his face and sighs.

“You broke a lot of bones,” he tells him straight. “Like a crazy amount of bones.”

His throat bobs. It’s serious then. “Luckily nothing… majorly important.” He deadpans him, eyebrows looming in low. “Like your neck, for example.”

Tinges of pain creep around his throat, like a ghostly whisper of his hurt that still lingers there. He’d try to reach up and touch it with his fingertips, but he’s assuming his arms were currently also out of commission with the rest of his body.

Plus, it’d look a little cliche, in his opinion.

“And,” Donnie adds pointedly, narrowing his eyes rather suspiciously. “There’s the whole self-sacrifice conversation that has been undoubtedly shelved for another time. If Angelo hadn’t portaled you out of there, Nardo, I don’t know wha–”

Leo finds all his strength at once to bolt upwards, eyes wide with a kind of panic that creeps across his chest with ice.

“Mikey,” he says with a breath. “Where is he, is he–”

Donnie shushes him with a flap of his hand, brows pinched together and mouth drawn in a stern, hard line.

“Quit moving about like that.” He moves towards him, more or less pushing him back down against the springy mattress. Seeing Leo’s concern however, does something to shift some of the hardness from his face, and he manages to pat Leo’s shoulder in a somewhat affectionate way.

“Raph and Dad are with him,” he tells him, drawing his chair up closer to the bed to sit beside his brother. “He’s alright. Pretty out of it.” His throat bobs, as if savoring all the words he perhaps didn’t want to say.

Eyes dart away and Donnie’s hands end up twisting together. Leo wishes nothing more than to reach across and grab them gently to still him, even for a moment. But the casts alongside the drugs that were swimming about in his system prevent his limbs from listening to a single command he wills them to doing.

“It was touch and go for the both of you,” Donnie finally explains, still failing to look at him at all. “What our dear friend Casey failed to mention was…” his throat bobs again, this time to swallow back the tears that brim his eyes. He fixes on a more sturdy expression when he looks to Leo. “Was that Mikey blew himself up when he opened up the portal last time. Or, er, rather, in the future, I guess.”

Leo blanches. “He what?”

Donnie nods. “Uh huh. Like, to dust.” A beat. “He’s lucky.” A ghost of a smile breezes past his brothers face, more tears springing behind warm browns. “We’re… all lucky.”

Leo sniffs. Maybe it’s the drugs, or maybe it’s the fact that they’re outta Staten Island together, but it doesn’t matter regardless. “You gotta let me see him.” He’s telling his twin. “Or I will just get up and walk to the next room regardless.”

Donnie sighs, standing and scraping back his chair, he deadpans his brother and says,

“I figured just as much. Alas, I am ten steps ahead of you, dear brother.” He throws a unbothered glance over his shoulder. “April.” He calls out.

There’s the squeaking of bed wheels against the floor and hurried, excited footsteps. With the med bay curtain pushed back Leo finally has eyes on his little brother.

He’s tucked up in his bed, face lacking his usual mask, highlighting his tired, beaten face. He’s got a split bottom lip that seems to be healing alright, still some leftover dried blood on his chin, and his arms…

Leo’s throat bobs as he soaks in the image. Mikey’s arms are bound tightly, from his hands all the way up, snaking up and around to each of his shoulders.

“S’not as bad as it looks,” Angelo is quick to assure him, voice so airy and breezy like they were discussing anything but their newfound bond over near-death experiences. “Don said I might need to wear compression stockings for a little while after to help with the nerve damage, but it don’t hurt so bad right now.”

Leo hums, waiting for their beds to be pushed together, Donnie side steps out of the way, side eyeing his brothers carefully.

“Well, that would be on the account of the boatload of drugs we supplied you with,” he says, musing over his words. Then, getting very serious, he tells them, “I want you both resting. This isn’t a sleepover. You very nearly died.” His expression softens. He lands a hand on Mikey’s shell and gives it a rather affectionate pat.

“Stop him from going stir crazy in here, will you?” He says, gesturing to Leonardo with a playful bob of his head.

Leo laughs brightly, and is somehow able to reach his arm across, wrapping Mikey’s bandaged fingers up beneath his, giving them the fainest of squeezes. Any other time he’d taken the opportunity to simply bypass Donatello’s laws and rules.

But true to his word, he was indeed hooked up to a lotta good drugs. All of which were seemingly kicking in at once.

“We’ll be okay, Dee,” he hears Mikey say, voice gentle and true. He feels him just about managed to squeeze his hand back, and although there’s a conversation still on sacrifices and suicidal portal missions, right now, with the weight of his brother’s hand in his and his gentle laughter filling the room, it was all the best medicine Leo needed for a peaceful sleep.

[turtlevariabilis]

Honest Opinion. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem

[Español]

Warning 1. This review will contain some spoilers from the movie, so I recommend avoiding reading it if you haven't seen it yet.

Warning 2. Here I only present my opinion, which does not mean it is entirely correct or entirely wrong. Of course, I would also love to read yours, especially if you differ on something. Always remember that diversity of opinions is a wealth.

Well, it's finally time to express my opinion about the movie Mutant Mayhem (2023), the newest version of our beloved ninja turtles. Get ready because it will be somewhat extensive, and although I will of course mention positive aspects, I really want to focus on the drawbacks it has, especially on the significant and serious problem it faces.

First of all, I want to clarify that I love the ninja turtles and I accept and admire them in all their versions. I firmly believe that each one has something special to contribute to the beautiful franchise they are part of. Mutant Mayhem is no exception.

First, I want to mention several very positive aspects of this new version. Its style. Its art. Its animation. The design of all the characters, mutants and humans. The setting. The soundtrack. I love how it highlights the ugliness, the dirt, the filth, and the darkness. I remember that when I watched tmnt 2012, I loved that they showed the garbage, the graffiti, and the dirty streets. In rottmnt, this almost doesn't happen and I miss it. But in Mutant Mayhem, it's picked up again, and I really love it.

The story is quite simple, but it's very good, well-crafted, entertaining, fun, and highly enjoyable for anyone. Here I want to emphasize that, despite the negative aspects that I will highlight later on, I loved the movie and I have already watched it a total of four times, and I'm capable of watching it many more times.

So let's start talking a little about the characters.

Donnie has always been my favorite turtle, so seeing him change in this version bothered me a bit. Just a bit. How did he change? He's still the turtle who stands out for his intelligence and has a great interest in technology, but in a more realistic way, without being the one who knows everything and fixes everything. That's great. What bothered me was that they made him a big fan of various things, like anime and the Korean band BTS, which isn't bad, but this personality trait usually belongs to Leo. Leo, from the start, can be seen either reading the science fiction book Dune, or being the only fan of the series Space Heroes, or even being the biggest fan of the Jupiter Jim movies, depending on the version. He has always represented those who are fans of something specific. But in Mutant Mayhem, it's now something about Donnie. It took me a while to get used to it, but in the end, it's just a small change, nothing serious.

About Mikey and Raph, I won't say much because we already know them, and they didn't have a very significant change, and they also don't contribute much individually in the movie (like Donnie). Generally, we can't see the turtles develop individually, and on rare occasions, we can only distinguish them as Leo and his brothers. That is to say, as a group, they have excellent development, but individually, there was a lot missing, we can only see slight character development in Leo. For me, this is not entirely bad, because in reality, a movie limits a lot, and I believe they couldn't have done it differently. I imagine this will change with the new series that is coming, and we will be able to enjoy them more as individuals than as a group soon.

I love the dynamic between the four brothers. It's great to see them so youthful and their interests and conversations reflect that. However, sometimes conversations, jokes, and references overlap, and even after watching it four times, I still can't catch absolutely everything. They know a lot about current popular culture, and that's great for introducing a new generation of ninja turtles fans, as has always been done with new versions.

Now, I have a personal conflict with Leo. To address this, I ask that we take a moment to consider the version of rottmnt. Initially, this version was quite poorly received by ninja turtles fans (including myself), mainly because it made very radical changes, such as the character designs, where the turtles are of different species and ages, and, what caused more conflict: the change in Leo's personality compared to previous versions, as he is not even the leader. This is not an opinion about rottmnt, so I won't dwell on it too much, but I really believe it was a good decision to have Leo not be the leader at first and then later on, because it's perfect for developing his character, his identity, and his place and relevance in the team. What about the Leo in Mutant Mayhem? He returns to being the typical leader of the group, the one who seems like the older brother. Within this movie, he has his own development, as he is portrayed as the good and obedient son, the one who wants to do things right and meet his father's expectations. I love that because I identify with this, but if we think about it, this is a regression for his characterization and for the franchise in general, because his character will once again fall short and remain quite static. It's like I have the feeling that, in this movie, which supposedly was made for the new generations and certainly succeeds in many aspects, it actually seems to be made for ninja turtles fans who only stuck with the older versions. Which isn't entirely bad. Again, this is just my feeling and it was one of my big disappointments on a personal level.

Now let's briefly talk about April. Honestly, I didn't understand why she faced so much discrimination from the audience in general, as if it were the first time she was depicted as black and asocial. And yes, now they also designed her as overweight. So what? The truth is, she's perfect and fits really well into her role in the movie. And those who say she's not the same April anymore... well, let me tell you, only April O'Neil would think to go alone after the people who stole her motorcycle, without worrying if they're dangerous people. April is still exactly the same April from previous versions, just with an added layer of insecurity regarding how she feels about herself. And that's great for her own character development.

As for romantic relationships... personally, I prefer when they are nonexistent, but it makes sense that one of the turtles, who are teenagers and therefore have raging hormones, would fall in love with a girl, in this case, Leo with April. It won't contribute much to the plot, and it's obvious from a mile away that it will end up just as toxic as the "relationship" between Donnie and April in tmnt 2012. But this is not a problem because it adds a lot to the comedy, which is an essential trait in any version of ninja turtles.

Let's talk about the villains. Cynthia remains as a background villain, but she sets off a chain reaction that will surely explode in relevance in the likely sequel. Actually, the true villain of Mutant Mayhem is Superfly, who is awesome and I love him, very charismatic as well. The fact that he has his gang of mutants, most of whom we know from previous versions, is perfect. It's true that none of these, except for Superfly, gain individual relevance, but they act as a group (like the turtles). I didn't mind that the movie handled so many characters as a group rather than individually; I think the opposite would have been too much. And I also know that some may have been bothered by Superfly's origin, but let's be honest, every version of ninja turtles is different, and that's great. In this case, it fits well with the plot, it works well. And, furthermore, it follows a parallel trajectory to that of Splinter, who is like his counterpart.

Well, let's talk about Splinter now, and this is where the real problems begin because his character is quite flawed no matter how you analyze it. But first, I must admit that I like his role as a father: he is overprotective, it's clear he loves his sons, he wants the best for them, and wants them to feel their best. We also see his frustration at not finding a partner (another romantic relationship that I didn't like, but which fits well to complete one of his personal subplots). The problem with Splinter is his origin. I really hated that he's originally just an ordinary rat from New York. It seems ridiculous to me because Splinter is supposed to represent the connection the turtles have with humans. And I know it's not the first time in his origin story that he's a rat because it also happens in the tmnt 2003 version... and I hate it (although at least in this tmnt 2003 version, it makes a little more sense because of his connection with Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki, but I still see it as a problem). And in Mutant Mayhem, he decides to learn Ninjutsu out of nowhere through movies and that's how he teaches his sons. It's just absurd. To me, it's a regression for the franchise. And yet, I'm able to overlook this issue because, if you pay close attention, in this new version, the only ones who can turn into mutants are animals that are not human (if you hadn't noticed this, I advise you to pay close attention to Superfly's plan).

And here is where the real serious problem that I wanted to bring to the discussion table begins: that the ooze only affects animals that are not humans despite the fact that... humans are animals! There is nothing biologically that distinguishes us from the rest of the animal kingdom, so there is no logical reason why humans cannot become mutants. I understand that this is why they decided that Splinter is originally a rat because otherwise he wouldn't have been able to become a mutant rat. But I just can't accept, ignore, or forgive that they start from the premise that humans are not animals and that's why they don't react to the substance the same way other animals do! And the worst part is that I doubt they can fix this in the plot, which I think is a very serious mistake. Some of you may believe that humans are different from other animals, either for anthropocentric or religious reasons; that's fine. But purely biologically, which is how the ooze affects, we are not different from other animals. Therefore, it makes no sense that humans cannot become mutants. And I don't understand why no one is talking about this, since it's the only major flaw the movie has. This makes the new version built on a very weak argument, and I believe it could lead to its self-destruction over time. Which is very sad.

We could try to fix this by considering that humans are not entirely human and that this is the reason why the ooze doesn't affect them, for example, they could be half extraterrestrial like April was in tmnt 2012 (and that's why the mutagen didn't affect her). Because, I don't know about you, but I have no doubt that Cynthia and her henchmen, who control the strange company TCRI, have something to do with the Krang. Still, this solution that absolutely all humans are not one hundred percent human seems impractical to me and even unrealistic.

In short, I love these new turtles; I love their youth, their dynamics, their relationships; I love the animation and the setting; I love the comedy; I love all the references both within the franchise and from the popular and current external world; I love the moral reflection the characters had to face and the final message; I even love the plot and most of the subplots that I consider well-developed, and I also love that they leave us with some big loose ends that enhance the likely great sequel, which seems to be very promising. I loved this movie, and yet, personally, I feel like it's already ruined and there's not much that can be done to fix it. A real shame, because it had plenty of potential. It could have even become the best version so far... but it didn't.

To conclude, I want to add something else about the ending, a separate topic.

We're used to the turtles being ninjas, meaning they work in the shadows of the night, hidden, as invisible heroes of New York. All this even though we, as viewers, only wish for them to have a normal life, to enjoy their youth pleasantly, and to be accepted by society just as they are. In Mutant Mayhem, this goal is achieved... is this good?

To answer this question, I want to go back a bit to previous versions. Even in tmnt 2012, they do everything possible to be invisible to normal people. But in rottmnt, the situation changes slightly. Although disguised (obviously), they are not afraid to go out during the day, and it seems like they care less about being seen. And the people of New York rarely seem to be scared of them. This may seem silly, but to me, it seems like another success of rottmnt, since the goal of delivering a new version to the audience is to reach new generations, and these new generations are increasingly open-minded in many ways. So, it makes sense to me that the turtles go out more and hide less, and that they are more easily accepted. The fact that in Mutant Mayhem they have been completely accepted, to the point that in the end they even attend school, not only makes it the cutest version of the ninja turtles but also, I'm sure, reaching that ending was necessary to adapt to these younger generations. This is a huge change in the franchise, and I am very curious to discover how the story will unfold now and what new challenges the turtles will have to face as a result of this.

I think I've gone on too long with this opinion, and I could actually go on even more, analyzing every detail under a powerful microscope... but the truth is, despite it all, I loved this movie. It excited me a lot. It made me feel a lot. It will always be a pleasure to reunite with these characters in different circumstances and versions.

So we'll leave it here. Thank you for reading, I hope you found my perspective interesting, and hopefully, I can hear yours as well. Have a great day!

P.S. If I feel like it and see that this opinion has been interesting and entertaining to you, and also sparks a pleasant discussion, perhaps I'll be encouraged to write my opinion about other versions.

•💜•

Click here if you want to see content about Mutant Mayhem

[dandylovesturtles]

For the writing meme: 11, 16, 24

11. Link your three favorite fics right now

AH NO questions like this are so hard... ok I'll do my favorite completed and my favorite ongoing that I'm subbed to.

I'm basing this on how much I reread them lol

Completed:

who're you hiding - Leo gets sick and hangs out in Donnie's lab.

all the things that I could live without - Disaster Twins post-movie recovery fic.

Panic Buttons - Leo has a panic attack and Raph helps him (cw that the panic attacks depicted are very graphic)

Ongoing:

The Old College Try - Disaster Twins go to college.

Three-Sided Coin - Three Leos from three different points in the timeline get transported to an alternate dimension (I think??).

call me here (I will appear) - Leo dies in the Prison Dimension and comes back to his family as a ghost.

Bonus (some favorite fics not from ROTTMNT):

Poor Wayfaring Stranger (Final Fantasy XV) - AU where Cor finds MT!Prompto and brings him back to Insomnia to take care of him. Idk how else to describe this fanfiction. It's one of the best pieces of writing I've ever read. It basically reconfigured my brain.

ikanaide (Project Sekai) - Tsukasa gets sick and his friends take care of him.

(do you take this jerk to be) your one and only (ATLA) - AU where Zuko is engaged to Yue and Sokka does not like that (though his reasons change over the course of the fic, if you know what I mean).

(putting the rest of my answers under the cut because this got long lol)

16. How many fic ideas are you nurturing right now? Share one of them?

OH GOD SO MANY they basically don't stop.

Of the ones I feel confident I will write at some point, there are... 5 I think. 100ft is one of them so I won't talk too much about that.

The other chapter fic I want to write is my take on the "save everyone in the doomed timeline" style fic, and I've talked about it before. I've been tentatively calling it "Donnie and Mikey's Step-by-Step Guide to Saving Your Doomed Family," or just "Step-by-Step Guide" and, like I've said, it's intended to be heavily B Team focused.

The idea came from my interest in the time between the end of the Season 2 finale and the start of the movie, a time where Leo and Raph fought a lot and Donnie and Mikey had to lean on each other. They've always been close but in the movie they're downright clingy, with Donnie reflexively tucking Mikey under his arm or holding on to him in so many scenes, and like a lot of other people I interpret this as a consequence of Raph and Leo's fighting and the tension it created in their dynamic. But I also kinda shy away from that actual time period, because if you stay canon compliant with the movie it's kinda hard to have an actual resolution to that tension without overwriting it some way. And I know some writers thrive in that limbo, but I am not one of those people haha. It's just not something I'm personally interested in writing myself.

So this fic will be set in the immediate aftermath of the film, where things are kinda resolved but not really because Leo and Raph are still too seriously injured to have an actual conversation, and Mikey and Donnie are still left in uncertainty of what their sibling bond will look like when all is said and done.

And what better way to distract yourself from the growing tension in your own family than by involving yourself in someone else's problems - specifically the problems of yourselves from a doomed future?

I'm really excited about it... whenever I get to it haha.

24. Worst writing advice anyone ever gave you?

I caaan't remember if I've told this story here but if I have I'll just tell it again lol

I grew up in a really small rural town that happened to have a very small private college in it (the entire campus could have fit in the commuter parking lot of the state college I went to). Every now and then this college would host some kind of speaker or a workshop that was open to the public, and this was a big thing because my town didn't get a lot of that kind of thing coming through it. One of these workshops was hosted by a published author, and it was a class for beginning fiction writers. I was around 17 or 18 at the time, and me and two of my other friends (who also wanted to be professional writers one day) were very excited to sign up.

I mean, I can't stress to you guys how hype we were for this. You'd think we had backstage tickets to a Lady Gaga concert. But our town didn't have a lot of people you could talk to about this kind of thing. Getting advice from someone who had actually gotten their books bought and published by an actual publishing house was a big deal to us.

So we get to the workshop. We're the only teenagers there, but we weren't worried about that. We were the nerds in high school, we were used to this. We all sit down in the same row, pencils and notebooks ready to go. Ready for wisdom!

She asked the group to give a short, punchy summary for a story idea we each had. Like the straight A students we were, my friends and I all put our hands up first. She called on me, and I rattled off my back-of-the-book style summary for something I wanted to write, a fantasy novel about dragons and swords (I was a dragon girl).

I remember she gave me this nasty look and said, "Oh, you're one of those."

She preceded to go into a prolonged rant about how genre fiction is pointless; how there's nothing redeemable about fantasy worlds, how it's empty-calorie entertainment, the potato chips of the literary world. Books, she said, are supposed to be about real things. Contemporary and historical fiction were the only worthy genres in this woman's mind.

I don't remember a lot of the advice that came after that, I just remember sitting in my chair feeling dejected and stupid.

I think about that sometimes, and how one person can be so wrong. Genre fiction may be set in fantasy worlds or sci-fi futures, but it's still about real things. Real emotions and real struggles and real philosophical questions. If you cut yourself off from fantasy and sci-fi just because it deals with unreal or theoretical concepts, you cut yourself off from a broad spectrum of human self-expression.

Anyway, she may have sold a few historical fiction novels but I have 250K hits on AO3 so who's laughing now, lady

[minkschasijasi]

About "disaster twins" there is so much room to play in half brothers of the same age but dont shars a birthday, raised together but not twins both middle children struggling with issues stemming from that but without a particularly strong bond (as compared to the collective) between them. I personally find it a shame how strongly the fandom latched onto the twin idea ignoring what word of god has said about it. Its a unique dynamic as is.

Real. Honestly, idm disaster twins that much ,, i think they’re a great duo ,, heck—it’s a sturdy dynamic. Sometimes i just get struck with the thought that their twin roles are not at all canon and it breaks my perspective of the entire fandom for a moment.

Cause jeez! Mkey’s mystic injuries on his arms didn’t seem canon, by the way they showed it near the end of the sequence where Leo was pulled out of the portal and into Staten Island

Or Raph being partially or becoming fully blind in one eye because of his kraang transformation

Even the entirety of the future family in the kraangpocalypse are non-existent, we only know leo and mikey’s designs, that they are leo and mikey in the future, and that they were one of, if not, the last groups to be alive during the end of that starting scene. Majority (shoutout to Cass Apocalyptic Series and L.O.V.E.!) took deleted scenes from the opening, the actual opening shot as well, and spun a wild story out of it.

No shame though, i love every one of those guys i absolutely die inside out of sheer excitement when these guys post.

Kinda crazy though, how literally 50% of my hyperfixations are complete headcanons and alternate universes

Shows how starved we are as rottmnt fans 😭

More words under cut <3 (duh)

But to follow with anon’s thoughts on the twin shtick with the blue and purple turtles, i guess it just follows the majority’s preferences on how much bullying we can create out of these chaotic middle children. Out of the four turtles, those two are most likely the most popular—and we all probably know the rule with our favorite character/s.

Either we give them the entire world, or we make them suffer tremendously before giving them the entire world.

I see the half-brothers-same-age-but-not-twins idea being a really cool change from the usual disaster twins content ,, they’d both strike me dead, positively.

With them having similar placement issues on the team, i find that without the twin dynamic between them would have to build a more sturdy relationship instead of the route a lot of people, probably including me, take—which is to say they already had that bridge build to each other and are able to confide in each other their said problems and complaints.

Though the twins idea does bring up a more dramatic and conflicting flares between the two when it comes to sibling fights, especially serious ones. Cause, when you’re siblings you got a connection, but when you’re twins (fraternal or not) you’ve probably got a bigger bond than the usual. This is probably one of the reasons why so many rottmnt fanfic writers or even people who don’t do that and just make rando content on the two prefer this connection—it allows that sweet, sweet angst.

I guess, we just play around with this a lot. I mean, thing with cutting shows in half is that it will allow fans the freedom to do whatever they wish with it, especially since this show started growing in popularity a while ago. I just enjoy being in the fray of it all :)))

[boxfullaturtles]

Since Donnie is your fav I am curious how do you feel about Raph? For iterations 03 and 07 also rise because I don’t think you watched 12

(i watched a bit of 12 and i do not care for it. nuff said.)

You are correct, Donatello is my favorite turtle in every iteration. I love an unhinged scientist.

But Raphael in all iterations is so important. And in every iteration he has the softest heart and the biggest feelings.

I did write a post a while ago about how my feelings on 2003 Raph had changed as an adult. As a kid, I didn't like him all that much because he always seemed mean and angry and loud. But now I understand that anger and how he acts tough because he's a big softy. He doesn't like to be vulnerable, so he acts brash and mean. He buts heads with Leo because his emotions are so big and he can't keep a cool head when his heart's on fire. He's a very passionate kid and he keeps an eye on his brothers. I think he knows them a lot better than they think he does. One of my favorite moments for him is actually the episode with Mrs. Morrison. He cares about people and he's really a gentle soul underneath all that attitude.

2007 Raph breaks my heart. I know a lot of people took his attitude in that movie out of context and misinterpreted it to hell and back. Raph doesn't hate Leo, he missed him. Leo is their big brother, their leader, the one who was supposed to be there to guide them. When Splinter sent him away for training, they expected Leo to come right back after his time was up. But he never did. He didn't say anything. He never came home. Can you imagine that betrayal? How much that must have hurt? Leo is always the opposite for Raph, usually as the cooler head to Raph's heated temper. But Leo was gone and as far as anyone knew, he wasn't coming back. And Raph just had to watch Donnie run himself into the ground trying to keep them together. Watch Mikey try and keep up a smile when there was a big gaping hole in their family. Watch while all the scum in New York started getting ballsy again because no one was out there knocking heads. So when Leo finally comes home and acts like nothing's changed, of course it pisses Raph off. Of course he's angry. His big brother disappeared without a word, and then has the fucking gall to show up and expect them to fall back in line, for things to carry on as usual, for it all to pick back up again right where he left it. But it can't. Because Leo was gone and that drastically changed things. And Raph's so angry and hurt, probably feels betrayed and abandoned. His brother just fucking left them behind. The dialogue before their fight on the roof in the movie hits me hard every time. Raph's letting out all his pent up emotions, all the frustrations and hurt is spilling out of him, and that line, "We got along just FINE without you!" Goooooodddddd that scene kills me every fucking time. And how pissed at himself he is when he realizes what he's done, how terrified he looks when he realizes how much he damage he could have actually done. How much he probably hates himself for it. I really, really wish we'd gotten the other movie(s?) that had been planned for 07. I wish we could have had more time in the 07 movie to explore how things had changed between the turtles and how they had to figure out how to work together again. 2007 are MY turtles and I love them with my whole heart. They also break my heart when I think about how messed up their family ties must be now.

Rise Raph is kind of like a breath of fresh air. I love that Rise took a chance and changed up the dynamic of the turtles and gave them a chance to show off in ways other iterations really hadn't allowed. I think Raph being the one to shoulder the responsibility of leadership forced him to mellow out and learn how to control his temper. We still get glimpses of that Raphael temper, and I really love that it especially shows up when Leo's the one needling him. It's always been Leo and Raph butting heads and that doesn't change in Rise, the nature of it just shifts a little. Rise Raph being the biggest and oldest, learning how to be gentle where his other iterations never really had to. Rise Raph is a sweetheart and he wears his emotions on his sleeve just as brightly as every other Raph, they're just in a different color. He's a big guy, with a big heart, and big emotions. I love that he's big enough to hit as hard as he promises to, I love that he uses that to do exactly what every other Raph has always done--throw himself into harm's way to be a shield for his family.

And I know you didn't ask, but I'm just gonna take a second to mention Mutant Mayhem here. Because, my gosh, those kids are about to go through it, I'll bet you anything. Somebody book them a farmhouse, we about to watch Shredder wreck their shit. MM Raph is a riot. This kid has been cooped up in the sewers his entire life, with his paranoid brother hovering over his shoulder. And the second he's finally let loose, he goes off. And I love that for him. We haven't seen a lot of that classic Raph temper, but the kid's definitely got a lot of energy and emotions inside him. I hope the show gives all of the turtles their own individual arcs that let them grow, I hope we get to learn more about them. Because that's one thing the movie really lacked, was fleshing out their personalities and letting them be individuals. I'm really looking forward to what Mutant Mayhem has in store for us.

[chiangyorange]

Big Leo holding Raph and joking around with lil' Leo 🥺💜

RAPHIE!!!! I LOVE MY BIG MAN SM!!!!!! i love him i love him i love him i love him i love himmmmmmm

(v excerpts taken from ch7 v)

Before he responds Leonardo walks into the room. Under his arm is Raph, hanging there limply with a shocked expression. Leo reels at the sight a little bit. It looks like Raph is too as he jolts up. “Wait, you can actually carry me?” “I've been waiting for the perfect moment to!” The older turtle chuckles. “And I can do more than carry you, big brother.” He lets Raph down to the floor and crouches down forward for a piggy back ride. Raph gasps loudly and climbs on his back, locking his ankles together. Leonardo stands up with no struggle and Raph starts to pat excitedly on the older turtle’s shoulders. His older brother was wiggling, and yes, it’s fucking adorable! “Leo, Donnie, look!!” “We see that, bud.”

raph is literally so excited to be picked up, the last time he was picked up was from when april tried and he was like 11. yeah sure hes 17 now but that does NOT make him immune to having an indescribable amount of joy for being carried around like a ragdoll

he kicky his feeties

on the other hand, fleo wanted to return and thank raph in his own way. for protecting him, for taking care of him donnie, and mikey. and also as kind of an apology.

"let me carry the burden you do" is what hes trying to say here. and even to present raph, hes still taking care of fleo. raph cares about his brother so much it doesnt matter if fleo is taller than him now, that hes older with decades on him, that he survived a war.

fleo is his little brother and nothing is going to change that.

onto the leos !!

He sees in his periphery that Leonardo smiles wider. “Awe, you like me.” “Don’t push it.” Leo rolls his eyes. “It’d be shitty to demote you just because you're not from this timeline. If we did that, we’d have to do it to Case– Junior too. It wouldn’t have been fair.” “Whatever you say.” Leo snorts. “That being said, can you stop leering over in the shadows? It's actually terrifying.” “I can only do so many things in the lair before I’m bored again.” “And that means giving me a heart attack every time I go into a room? Put away your scary ass stare man, I swear your eyes turn red.” “I didn’t know you were so faint of heart.” “I should have kept you sedated.” Leo says, knowing he never once put him under sedation.

my dynamic of leos is very hard for me to describe personally. its not hostile, its just complicated, and even then "complicated" has too negative of a connotation.

leo is a person who latches onto family with his entire heart. he accepted karai as gramgram near immediately and we all know how fucked up about her death was on him and to the rest of the boys.

its different when its a version of yourself.

for me i didnt want immediate hostility(look away from the scalpel incident for one sec), because i saw some fics that go too hard into the "leo hates himself" angle and while not unsounded, it can be played straight and have a good payoff, it was NOT the tone i wanted in wmas. it wouldnt match the kind of complication im trying to give across here

pov leo, hes seeing himself as the pinnacle leader, from how casey described him, hes the Hero, this is the ideal of what he should be striving for.

but the person hes seeing in front of him is just a guy. leo saw him injured, resting on bed in the medbay, he saw him start to cry in raph's arms, he sees a father, he sees a confused and lost man in front of him.

in a way its pity. in a way he pities himself. fleo is tired and leo can clearly see that, cause hell, hes fuckin tired too.

“I should have kept you sedated.” Leo says, knowing he never once put him under sedation. “That’s called elderly abuse.” “And you’re how old?” “Do I really- okay I see that face, alright.” Leonardo moves his hand to cover Leo’s face and shoves him back. “You got me. Whatever, you absolute child.” Leo cackles.

and fleo's pov on the matter is, well, i kinda already typed it out all the way in chapter 5

The world of this timeline said that Leo will be able to make up for his mistake with the key. Not him, the world said. 

he looks at leo and feels so much pride, but hes scared that leo thinks less of him. leo managed to save the world and he didnt. and now hes here fucking up a perfectly good happy ending that didnt need to include him.

and on a little more selfish level, "why wasnt i good enough" fleo is thinking.

he doesnt think leo as the superior version of the two of them, but the fact still stands. one of them won. the other didnt. and he sometimes wishes he won too. its complicated.

they dont hate each other, not even a little bit. theyre too good of people to hate each other