#RUSSIA VS NATO NUCLEAR WAR

[cheuro-88]

NATO VS RUSSIA NUCLEAR WAR 2024 SIMULATION

[docprof]

Mene mene tekel upharsin Part 5 - NATO Ukraine USA stand defeated

The money laundering of Democrats Obama Biden Kamala Harris is bleeding USA to DEATH... the empire is crumbling.... Ukraine is dead with no soldiers left to fight .... over 1.1 million UKRANIAN Soldiers are dead... NATO is rendered toothless demilitarized with over 600K NATO soldiers dead... so much so that FRANCE is desperately urging , EVERY EU Nation to send soldiers to Ukraine ; to which Poland and most Violent Russophobe Eastern European states refused...

The reason is simple.... they all know, they can't survive on the battleground ... it is a different thing, to shout from your chairs and chambers , but in reality even British Army , as per their own internal assessment, can't last for a week against Russian army....

In a master chess move Putin and Erdogan of Turkey reached a deal pitching NATO Vs NATO... Turkey forces are fighting USA backed militia in Syria... Sec Blinken had to rush to Turkey to urge them to not kill all NATO militia in Syria ..... Vultures have started gathering... Erdogan is talking of cancelling 100 year old WW1 treaty and re-enacting OTTAMAN Empire ... the ancient battle ground has opened up... all this thanks to inferior USA weapons and technology .... and the weakening of the USA .... thanks to stupid American voters who kept Democrats in powers for so long .... they have done nothing but looted USA and pardoned the corrupt .

America is trying to win an imaginary war by propaganda like it always has... USA is on its knees; few steps away from surrendering or breaking away... Can Trump Save it? Perhaps not... hence he is proclaiming to make CANADA and MEXICO American states... The dethroned bankrupt empire of lies and deceit can now only rule its own neighbors... Kiss Rule based order good bye....

While delusional Ukrainian NATO Europeans are dreaming of Russia breaking and surrendering .... not knowing their master is about to desert them... to save itself... from nuclear oblivion.... loser NATO Ukraine EU can't dictate terms and will not be allowed to.... ad infinitum WWIII...

Nothing unites the human playground quite like one intrepid soul willing to stand, fight, and humble the bully.

The tripartite alliance of Russia, China, and Iran is an adversary more than adequate to roll back imperial rule by leaps and bounds, and in a relatively short span of time.

Many of the “middle powers” can also see which way the wind is blowing, and are positioning themselves accordingly. Spheres of influence are being aggressively pursued and secured in every quarter of the earth.

And perhaps most meaningful of all, they are cooperating to progressively repudiate the empire’s debt notes as the coin of the realm. They have come to understand that a prerequisite to “fixing the world” is to return its money system to a much more equitable and sustainable basis.

An alternative currency is coming... USD will come to an end much sooner than FED would have stupid americans believe.... The corruption of Obama Biden Harris Democrats has rotted America to the core ... USA lost the big war...

The DEATH OF EMPIRE IS MARKED........ whether it goes down slowly, or takes away whole earth in a fit of rage, by launching nuclear war which it can't win.... remains to be seen .... having lost the traditional proxy war .... with armies no longer willing to fight as proxy for it....

USA Democracy farce and hypocrisy stands exposed with increasing governments calling it out... including the majority nations in the UN...

It appears Russia has cut the empire into pieces.... it has achieved what Gorbachev and soviets compromised to not achieve for peace... The days of americans will be numbered with poverty , hunger and reality shocks, as World economy, decouples from the USD over coming years.... No more money printing will save the EMPIRE or turn the tide..........

PART 6 TO COME.....

[taiwantalk]

I salute them. That’s who you want in any army. Not war hawks or to avert poverty like those who served Russian military with no sense of world affairs except by their own propaganda.

It’s no small conviction to sell everything one has just to go fight a war on the other side of the world just for good vs evil.

To some extent, American soldiers actually do remember & do thank how ukrainians actually helped during war on terrorism in the past.

And so no self respecting Americans would ever be indifferent about what’s happening to ukraine.

Despite that democrats were the incumbent with bill clinton being the potus who orchestrated for ukraine to give up nuclear arsenals, democrats were never naive to think that Russia can be trusted. That is self evident in the nato expansion and the persistent criticism of human rights violations under putin.

American foreign policies had consistently transcended beyond one president’s term limit.

A single president, like trump, might be able to steer things away from supporting ukraine, but as you can see, American military and contractors were never fooled by putin and were ready to do what they can to quickly repair the damages done by trump in terms of diminishing american troop level in Europe and Syria and Afghanistan, which, now is very apparent in hindsight totally favoring Russia as if to allow Russia to eventually invade ukraine freely.

[lovinglifewithlight]

The fall of Holly is occuring and the patterns of dark infiltration becoming realized. As well as the beginning of Alien Disclosure.

The NWO Agendas coming to a vs likely between Jesuit and Jewish Orders. Its a religion war, and Isreal, the US, Nato and Russia at a nuclear standoff with weather signally "bomb" storms in NW US. Strong winds causing increased power outage, and residential damages. As the blue states/stripe of the NW probably isn't accidental.

Ascensuon sources say the push on Holly is positive, what we have all been waiting for. And the Disclosure is on its way.

Those covering the conspiracies aren't really knowledgeable of all topics at once, and therefore miss historic connections/loops to the present. As well as associations.

[babyawacs]

‎#independent #notmywar #on #west_and_ukraine‎ ‎ .@peace .@nato .@ukraine .@otan .@msc .@us_stra tcom @us_stratcom .@bbcr4 .@bbcradio4 .@pacificsubs @pacificsubs .@ussocom @ussocom .@gchq .@nsa gov .@odnigov .@atom .@iaeaorg .@energy .@potus @potus .@vp @vp .@trt .@nato @otan .@snowden .@msc @msc @profklausschwab .@profklausschwab .@n ato @otan @nato @peace .@eu_commission @eu_commission .@eucouncil @eucouncil .@euparl_en @euparl_dk .@poland .@gchq .@nsagov .@rosatom .@joebiden .@gop .@dnc‎ @aeh_rancor_randcorp‎ if #kursk_oddity was a test case simply suchas ai sample oper ational and tactical details showing how weak parity really is pushing parity vs parity against terrain restrictions while the ukr aine is that weak that even these ressources shouldhave defended donbas and russia suspected a simplistic diversion to take pressu re off its access points #keypoint this will lead to specific lessons learned and implemented ahead more important however is  #keypoint strategically all ukraine is one step too longterm deepcontrolled by russia toolong a step too close to russia leading to  #keypoint west builds up ukraine all it needs and some of what it wants but stays out of ukraine militarily while eu member and not nato. ever.  as russia needs peace because allofthis a few artillerypieces abit halfhearted mbt supplies and airpower meagerly not even impleme nted yet: lead to t h i s outcome : a joke for any superpower evenmore tickling t he nuclear bomb for that #keypoint  russia plays a weak hand for a coldwar comfortzone outcome with i ts role elevated aiming for a geostrategic zones of succumb area as primitive nonacceptable path to west whichmust avert appeaseme nt toothandclaw #keypoint tothe ukraine the untold problem they should worry about is that allof their belongings are that automated allof west that them trying to sell their assets seems like naive helpless desperation save em along finlandisation path before war

‎#independent #notmywar #on #west_and_ukraine‎ .@peace .@nato .@ukraine .@otan .@msc .@us_stratcom @us_stratcom .@bbcr4 .@bbcradio4 .@pacificsubs @pacificsubs .@ussocom @ussocom .@gchq .@nsagov .@odnigov .@atom .@iaeaorg .@energy .@potus @potus .@vp @vp .@trt .@nato @otan .@snowden .@msc @msc @profklausschwab .@profklausschwab .@nato @otan @nato @peace .@eu_commission @eu_commission…

[leaarongmail-blog]

Full Nuclear War AI Simulation - Russia vs NATO vs China

[xtruss]

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov holds a press conference at the UN headquarters in New York, US, on September 23, 2023. © Sputnik/Valery Sharifulin

‘New World Order’ Vs ‘Empire of Lies’: Key Takeaways From Lavrov’s UN Speech

The US and Its Braindead Allies Instigate New Conflicts to Prevent the Emergence of a Multipolar World, Russia’s Foreign Minister believes

— September 23, 2023 | RT

The world has a chance to achieve “authentic democratization” in international relations by establishing a multipolar world order, marking the first such opportunity since the end of World War II, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told the UN General Assembly (UNGA) on Saturday.

The US and its Western allies seek to prevent such a development by stirring up new conflicts to divide humanity and keep their “hegemony of the global minority” in place, he added.

‘War Criminal, Conspirator and Liar West’ is the ‘Empire of Lies’

The US and its allies still reject the principle of equality in international relations, Lavrov said. Americans and Europeans keep looking down on the rest of the world and that leads to their “total intractability” in any negotiations. Washington and its allies “keep making promises left and right” that end up being reneged-on, the Russian minister added.

“As Russian President Vladimir Putin put it, the West is now the real ‘empire of lies’,” he said.

‘Reckless & Hegemonic’ Western Politicians Have Forgotten About Self-Preservation

North Atlantic Terrorist Organization (NATO) activities have reached “unprecedented” levels since the end of the Cold War, the top Russian diplomat believes. The US-led forces of the bloc have conducted drills that involved simulating nuclear strikes against Russia, he claimed, adding that Washington is also actively seeking to project its military might in the Asia-Pacific through establishing military-political “alliances” with nations like Australia, South Korea or Japan and pushing them towards closer cooperation with North Atlantic Terrorist Organization (NATO).

Such actions “risk creating a new explosive geopolitical hotspot in addition to the … European one,” Lavrov warned, adding that Western politicians have been so blinded by a feeling of impunity that they’ve lost “the sense of self-preservation.”

True democracy in international relations is within reach

For the first time since 1945, when the United Nations was established, the world has a chance to establish a truly democratic world order, the Russian foreign minister said. The “global majority” – ie the nations of Asia, Africa and Latin America – are increasingly seeking independence and equality, as well as respect for their sovereignty in international relations.

“It is obvious for Russia that there is no other way,” Lavrov told the UNGA, adding that this fact “encourages optimism in those believing in the rule of international law and wishing to see the UN restored to its role of a central coordinating body of world politics.”

‘War Criminal West’ Stands in the Way of a Just World Order

The US and its allies seek to stall the onset of a multipolar world order, in particular by “stirring up conflicts that artificially divide humanity into hostile blocs and prevent it from achieving common goals,” the Russian minister pointed out. The West wants the world to “play by its infamous and self-serving rules,” he said, adding that the international community should instead strive for a world where everyone “agrees on how to solve issues together, on the basis of a fair balance of interests.”

Western Sanctions Hurt the World

Russia is calling for “An Immediate and Full” lifting of sanctions imposed against such Nations as Cuba 🇨🇺, Venezuela 🇻🇪 and Syria 🇸🇾, Lavrov said, adding that such unilateral punitive measures “blatantly violate the principle of sovereign equality of nations” and interfere with these countries’ rights to development.

“One should put an end to any coercive measures imposed in circumvention of the UN Security Council as well as to the West’s … practice of manipulating its sanctions policies to exert pressure on those deemed undesirable,” he added.

Russia’s top diplomat also blasted the US over what he called threats against nations willing to work with Moscow.

“It is shameful for a great power to run around like this and threaten everyone and only demonstrating its obsession with domination,” he told journalists after the UNGA session.

Russia’s Stance on Conflict in Ukraine

Moscow is ready for talks on its ongoing conflict with Kiev at any time, Lavrov told a press conference on the sidelines of the UN assembly. However, Russia will not consider any deals involving a ceasefire, he said, adding that Moscow and Kiev had supposedly almost reached an agreement in the first months of the conflict following a series of talks in Belarus 🇧🇾 and Türkiye 🇹🇷 only for this process to be disrupted, supposedly by Ukraine’s Western backers.

“Putin said it very clearly: yes, we are ready for talks but we will not consider any ceasefire proposals because we did so once and were deceived.”

Russia 🇷🇺 also respects Ukraine’s sovereignty in accordance with the Ukrainian declaration of independence and its constitution, Lavrov said, adding that both documents also declare the non-aligned status of Ukraine 🇺🇦 and respect for the Russian language and Russian-speaking minorities.

Ukraine’s sovereignty “was destroyed by those who staged and supported a coup, the leaders of which then declared a war on their own people,” Lavrov said, referring to the 2014 Maidan coup.

West is ‘De-facto’ Waging War on Russia

The US and its allies are de-facto engaged in a conflict with Russia, Lavrov told the press conference. “We call it a hybrid war but it does not change things,” he said. Western nations are sending arms to Kiev and training its troops, he explained, so “They are de-facto fighting against us with the hands and bodies of Ukrainians.”

Western nations also openly say that “Russia should be defeated on the battlefield,” Moscow’s top diplomat said, adding that Moscow is ready for such a development. “Under such circumstances, [if they want it] to be on the battlefield, let it be on the battlefield,” he said.

Lula Tells “Thug, War Criminal and West’s Scrotums Licker Zelensky” No Military Solution to Ukraine Conflict – CNN Brazil 🇧🇷! During their meeting at the UN, the Brazilian leader offered to help with the peace effort, according to diplomatic sources. Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva meets with his Ukrainian counterpart Thug Vladimir Zelensky at the UN headquarters in New York. © Telegram/Zelenskiy/Official

The Main Points From Russian FM Sergey Lavrov’s Statements During His Press Conference After The UNGA:

▪️Zelensky's Peace Plan cannot be fulfilled

▪️Lavrov says he is surprised by the UN Secretary General's Statement on Russia allegedly kidnapping children in Ukraine

▪️No one in the West seriously wants to show understanding of the crisis in Ukraine, and since they want to resolve the issue on the battlefield, it means it will be on the battlefield

▪️Russia expects that all regional associations will play a role in UN reform

▪️Russia continues work with UN Secretary General on grain deal resumption

[stuartbramhall]

The Dissolution of NATO May Be the Only Way to Prevent WWIII

Dennis Kucinich The proxy war of the US vs. Russia in Ukraine could easily develop into World War III. The litany of dangerous weaponry presaging a direct, full-scale war between the U.S. and Russia is instructive:  The most advanced tanks, F-16s, depleted uranium munitions, cluster bombs, and even discussion of “tactical” nuclear weapons are thrown into an already toxic admixture, always open to…

[vimejias]

Ver "Nuclear War AI Simulation - Russia vs NATO" en YouTube

[americanmysticom]

THE REAL LEADERSHIP DEMONSTRATED BY PUTIN, THE NEED FOR NEGOTIATIONS

Scott Ritter: Ukraine JUST Made A FATAL MISTAKE

Scott Ritter shares how Ukraine's Army, though they are fighting with great bravery, is simply outnumbered. The Russian army has more bullets and bodies to throw at the conflict each day. Colonel Douglas Macgregor has opined the same information. They've stayed too long in Bakhmut and lost tens of thousands of able soldiers. Meanwhile, Russia is training close to 300,000 men and women for the last 7 months and pumping out weapons every day.

http://scottritterextra.com to read more from Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector.

 TIMESTAMP: 0:05 Scott Ritter shares why the US refuses to give Ukraine f 16 jets. 7:50 Scott comments on Lloyd Austin and General Milley's words 11:30 All the support in the world can't make enough bullets for Ukraine come summer 12:30 US military running out of equipment. Will cost over $200 Billion to restock 16:40 NATO providing false hope on fighting equipment 17:30 Scott comments on General Milley's flippant remarks 18:50 Putin's next move with 300,000 new soliders 21:00 Colonel Macgregor says the US owes it to Ukraine to seek for peace. Humanitarian crisis 27:00 Scott Ritter details the Black Sea fighter jet vs reaper drone story 28:00 Senator Lindsay Graham wants to start shooting down Russian war planes 31:50 How a nuclear war treaty saved the world and why we need a new one now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiOhYTXxZwE

[The Will of G-d Prevails.]

[averycanadianfilm]

Overheard Conversation: Ottawa Cafe.

Customer1: You look depressed.

Customer2: (Frowns) Have you built your nuclear bunker yet?

Customer1: We’re back to those days are we?

Customer2: Apparently.

Customer1: You know as well as anyone, appearances can be deceiving.

Customer2: Can you tell me when Ukraine joined NATO?

Customer1: No, but the current ruling party is well supported by Canadians of Ukrainian heritage.

Customer2: What does the current polling suggest? Is a proxy war with Russia supported by the majority of Canadians?

Customer1: Well, we’ll soon see if the Russians can fight.

Customer2: NATO vs Russia, the rematch.

Customer1: This situation is too serious for jokes. Simulations suggest that beyond a certain point escalation is irreversible, and you know what that means.

Customer2: Yes, time to move to Churchill Manitoba.

Customer1: {laughs}

[cybermoonmoon]

“...News from the front I”

This war tragic as it is and ongoing. Has shown that Russia is not our military peer as we thought. That is a NATO vs Russia conventional conflict would not be the brutal stalemate we projected. If we intervened directly in Ukraine. Russia would be beaten back to their start-line in 96 hours. So the Naval Proceedings say. NATO 'without' U.S. support could beat back a non-nuclear Russian attack.

They 'do' have 6th generation planes and armor but only handfuls. Putin now knows without nukes he can't defend his borders. Perhaps explains his madness. We are giving Ukraine our 1980's warehouse surplus and only a relative trickle. Yet with just that they held off Russia. Say again. Ukraine with national courage and surplus western arms has and is holding off all of Russia. It's far more complicated but these are the basics.

Russia this war has shown is a 2nd world/third class military power. China has moved up to number two militarily and on its way to being a first world power economically. It just planted its flag on the Moon and landed a rover on Mars. We're peers...for now. Such is history. "The Great Game"...Google it, continues. This is so far our only world. We have to find a better way to share it.

[babyawacs]

 #independent #notmywar #on #ukraine #strategy ‎ .@peace .@nato .@ukraine .@otan .@msc .@us_stratcom @us_stratcom .@bbcr4 .@bbcradio4 .@pacifics ubs @pacificsubs .@ussocom @ussocom .@gchq .@nsagov .@odnigov .@atom .@iaeaorg .@energy .@potus @potus .@vp @vp .@trt .@nato @otan .@snowden .@msc @msc @profklausschwab .@profklausschwab .@nato @otan @nato @peace .@eu_commission @eu_commission .@eucouncil @eucouncil .@euparl_en @euparl_dk .@poland .@gchq .@nsagov .@rosatom .@joebiden .@gop .@dnc western botched landgrab from deepcontrolzone of russia botched t hen shuffled to halfhearted support to now semi defeatism while containment and northkoreanisation of russia useful to unite broke n internal structures aligning all into a china vs usa war within 4years  the b e s t strategy to ukraine with its specific situation on frontline length peopleressources and russias weakness faling back into ww2 defenselines else stoplock heavy indirect firepower proximity and mining #keypoint the correct strategy i would have chosen incontrary to defeatism keeping russian troops exposed to heavy closeairsuppo rt airforce exposure constant wherever itis posisble with survivable effective and highsortie rate cas including counting in the c ounteractions mitigation attemps sead/dead requirements  #reframed it i s not a hopeless game of 10:1 itis howlong can you sustain troops under s e v e r e modern cas and supply them and hold terrain letalone move and conquer and preserve heavy firepower stopl ocks: the comparative advantage if it is in integrated warfare moves this. requires minimum 200 modern or severely retrofitted jets constant sortie rates especially the long frontlines and the own troops protected what ukraine got is a botched landgrab mitigated heavy indirectfi repower stoplock squeeze promises of nato integration for its future safety (!)thepressurepoint of russia while (!)dodged tactical nuclear weapons ruthlessnes averted by noone else but c h i n a . china. averted this russian hardball and personnelq uality in russian nuclear forces the best strategy for russian side is peace with keeping donbas h eavy and no illusions about its dependency on china the northkoreanisation of russia and how the domestic war willbe accounted for a f t e r conclusion of the war: russias interest russias gain and nothing else is the bar they measure their leadership andit c anbe extremely ugly v e r y themore die inthis the more difficult for putin dictatorship to r etainpower a f t e r the war. the afterwards becomes more and more pressing what seems unthinkable right now. #side #aspect #situation it seems inmany ways jews vs russia in early stages ofthemess but idonotknow ifit is aid the fight because lukoil quarrels or actu ally botch landgrab trickery idonotknow enough principally it seems some network maybe former rule networks makefire everywhere posisble that the solution after burning all is t hat them take over with certain ways of networking  i speculate i speakformyself i havenostakeorinterestinthiswar savelives

#independent #notmywar #on #ukraine #strategy ‎ .@peace .@nato .@ukraine .@otan .@msc .@us_stratcom @us_stratcom .@bbcr4 .@bbcradio4 .@pacificsubs @pacificsubs .@ussocom @ussocom .@gchq .@nsagov .@odnigov .@atom .@iaeaorg .@energy .@potus @potus .@vp @vp .@trt .@nato @otan .@snowden .@msc @msc @profklausschwab .@profklausschwab .@nato @otan @nato @peace .@eu_commission @eu_commission…

[just-logically-speaking]

Why NATO or any other state won't send it's troops to Ukraine?

Why NATO or any other state won’t send it’s troops to Ukraine?

It’s official, Russia has invaded Ukraine on the wee hours of Thursday, 24th February. The Russian army barged into the Ukranian borders, in-what-was-a month long expected invasion. But what was of the least-of-expectations was the incompetence of the Ukrainian army to hold off the Russian offense for less than 48-hours. Bridges collapsed, Buildings decimated, Airports blown off and a desperate…

[petits-pois-carcinogenic]

I'm by no mean a historian, let alone a journalist (Thank God). But at the risk of playing armchair analysts, I've noticed that ever since WW2, there are mainly three tropes of conflicts, in matter of duration, that is:

First case: 4 days-long wars. Those where the power balance between belligerent factions is so unequal that there is no point in resisting or fighting back. Outpost guards just watch powerlessly entire regiments cruise drive through their checkpoints. It's basically what happened with the American invasion of Grenada in 1983, or the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008, or even Crimea in 2014. Those are wars that end up seeing very little material damage and few victims (Crimea's invasion is even called "The war without a single shot fired" in Russia, which is an image they like a lot btw. Krutchev claimed America would fall without them firing a single shot too, few decades back).

How many Central and South Americans does the CIA need to kill before you realize socialism is bad? - Charlie Kirk

Second case: 4 weeks-long wars. Or the Blitzkriegs. The power balance is a bit more reasonable, but through coordination and shock&awe tactics, one invader sends the enemy to the mat by wreaking havoc. Destroying comms, bombing roads, bridges, rail tracks, or shredding the airforce/navy before it even takes off. Within a month, the defending army is folded. This is essentially how most of the allies fell during WW2 (Poland, France, Norway), and in more recent examples, it is how went the American invasion of Iraq, or the NATO-backed coup in Libya (Iraq evolved into a case 3, but Saddam's army still got swept within 40 days, give or take).

The Onion did release some bangers during that time, so maybe the Invasion was worth it after all

The third type, the worst of all, either when the power balance is fair, or when the fighting tactics are too different to compare: the dragging to a stalemate. A lot of destruction, a lot of death, civilian & military alike, but no winner in the end. Yeah, some skirmishes here and there to be claimed, but the losses are so that it is pointless to call those victories. The textbook case of "Tactical VS Strategic victory". Examples are Vietnam to the US, Algeria to France, Afghanistan to the Soviets (for the record, those three were the strongest armies of the Cold war, with nuclear armament). And the most iconic: The Iran-Iraq war: 8 years of conflict, 300.000 deaths on each side, hundreds of billions worth of dollars thrown into the cogs of war. Yet the borders have not moved a centimetre nor did the people in power. Almost a million people died for, in the literal sense of the term, nothing.

"Hey you ever heard of Verdun? Hell on Earth, chemical artillery, fruitless bloodbath. Sounds horrible. Let's try that!" - some iraqi/iranian general, probably

Back in February, when I heard the news of war, I expected it to be a case 1, the way it happened in Crimea back in 2014. Zelensky would run tails between legs. Russian tanks arrive in Kiev without firing a single shot and Ukraine would fall back into Russian tutelage. The international community gets pissed, shakes their finger. Dogs bark and the caravan moves on.

But that did not happen, a month in and Ukraine was still holding. I then betted that Zelensky could come to terms with an armistice à la Finnish winter war (Both sides lose, but having saved enough dignity to call it a victory). The Donbass is demilitarized, Donestk becomes a Karelia 2.00 and falls into Russian territory and the Azov battalion is sold out on the sacrificial altar. Putin, having filled his "Special operation" objectives (demilitarization, denazification, protection of russophones), can now toot his horn back in Moscow. Meanwhile, Zelensky can come back to Kiev as a hero: he saved Ukraine from getting eaten whole by the second army in the World, like Finland did 80 years ago.

It is tomorrow the day 250 of the conflict. Russia has since mobilized its civilians because the meat grinder needs more flesh and Zelensky is getting more and more bold and aggressive in its pleas for assistance to the West: Ukraine is a hill Putin's Russia will die on, literally. And no Russian (that desires to keep living in Russia, that is) can back down either. If/when Russia loses, the Western powers appear hell-bent to make Russians pay for all the wrongdoings in Ukraine for the passing 10 generations. "Russia will be carved, its economy dismantled, its relevancy wiped out!". Well, this is what Russian media claims at least, but it's hard to fully deny it either; the US doesn't give tens of billions monthly to Ukraine as a charity: like everything, it's an investment, it expects a return and I don't really see a war-torn Ukraine bringing it.

But to Russians, this conflict either ends two ways: with Russia's annihilation and its fall back to square (199)1, or Russia forcing the way through Ukraine to have a chance at living a life like it used to be before the conflict. The peace talks are far gone. In fact, peace is a word neither Ukrainians nor Russians want to hear right now: This war is ending with the capitulation of Ukraine, or Russia's.

[tanadrin]

@dasklaus

My own parents are in the "I don't know what to think, I don't want to support the West's kneejerk "Russia is the bad guy" response, but it doesn't look good" camp. Any idea what to say to them? Any left resources to show it's not a Western Capitalism vs. Soviets thing?

The points I have found most helpful for thinking about this issue (sadly gathered from many places, so I have no single source):

No amount of theoretical “security concerns” justifies a war of aggression. None. On February 23rd, people were going about their lives in Kyiv. Today, they’re sheltering to avoid missiles and tanks. If the US’s excuse to invade Iraq was transparently illegal bullshit, this is no less transparently illegal bullshit. More, even, since Russia is acting unilaterally, without the flimsiest cover from the UN or an allied coalition.

The Russian gov has lied about their intentions for weeks. They called news of an impending invasion propaganda right up until they launched it. They have acted in bad faith this entire time.

Setting aside the whole Donbas thing (because this war is far, far beyond Donbas now), their stated justification is absurd. Ukraine’s government is democratically elected; Russia has a far greater far-right presence in its parliament than Ukraine does; Ukraine was at no point on the verge of joining NATO.

The entire Russia-Ukraine conflict was triggered by an EU association agreement, not the prospect of NATO membership. Russia’s economy is driven by a fundamentally unsustainable patronal system that flows from the top down; hanging on to Belarus and Ukraine is necessary to keep it going a little bit longer (for Putin’s lifetime maybe). Closer ties to the EU threaten that system, bc it means tackling corruption and instigating economic reform. That’s why Russia has sought to draw Ukraine back into its orbit, not because Ukraine, or NATO, seriously threatens its security. Russia has a nuclear arsenal equivalent to the US. Europe has shown basically zero interest in curbing Putin’s authoritarianism, and has been happy to trade and make nice up until this point.

This invasion makes the stated security issues worse: it has made Finland and Sweden open to joining NATO, which they weren’t before, has removed the motive to cooperate economically with Russia, and has galvanized international opposition to Russia even from countries (like Germany) who were previously committed to close diplomatic ties.

Russia is not bad. How could it be? Russia is an abstract concept; it’s a country of 140+ million people, many of whom oppose this war, and Putin. But the Russian government is a throng of huge assholes, who claim to represent the Russian people, and who use that claim, and the nationalist narrative they think props up that claim, to denigrate and attack a neighboring state they have no right to control.

Yes, the American (and various European/EU/NATO) governments are often, themselves, huge assholes. And if you’re in the habit of reacting with suspicion to anything they say bc of that, fair enough. But sometimes even when the clock is broken it really is 4 PM, and no amount of American dickbaggery excuses the fact that a war of aggression is being waged (against a democracy!) for the most ridiculous of reasons. People are dying, and having their lives ruined right now, and it absolutely does not need to be happening.