#ROP in their Sauron era

[valar-did-me-wrong]

"Anger will drink you dry if you let it"

captioning a pic of Arondir & Theo... the POC elf & the OC storyline

They are trolling back the trolls!! 😭😭

I love them standing up & doubling down with Tolkienian replies omg ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

[sauronism]

charlie vickers didn't giggle and twirl his hair everytime he killed someone on screen only for him to act tough and shy when he preach melkorism in numenor. i need him to go full blown freakazoid 3000 and borderline obsessive towards his dumbass overlord to the point it scares the shit out of the temple builder themselves.

[markantonys]

me when adar, a villain who manipulates and backstabs, turns out to be manipulating and backstabbing galadriel

[fukutomichi]

- I have you.

- And who has you?

[starsofarda]

Silm Fashion - Part 6/? - Celebrimbor

Yes, I am basically going off that one poll for the order, so now we are going to go down my rabbit hole with Celebrimbor.

Well, he is interesting as a character, and whilst I kind of dig the red to green thing he has in RoP, I wanted to give my humble opinion on his fashion sense.

Under cut!

So, because my pipeline in fashion sense is generational, my mind went Feanor (hanfu) -> Curufin (hanfu - spoiler) -> Celebrimbor (modern hanfu street style).

But hear me out.

Of course when Celebrimbor was a toddler and still in Nargothrond he was in proper styled outfits, ofc with Feanorian red all over. Because if we go by the fact that Curufin took after Feanor the most, that includes Feanor's fashion sense (see Silm Fashion part 1). And because ofc urufin has a child, he is going to try his best in putting the little one in Feanor-inspired outfits.

Then we know what happens, after Nargothrond is destroyed and he disappers for the rest of the First Era I guess he has some sort of idk crisis, like he bonds with Gil-Galad and Elrond like stray cats bond to whoever gives them food and shelter. The Second Era, from and Elf's POV is like Mad Max. His fashion sense has not really strayed that much, but he has that je-ne-sais-quoi.

Then ofc he establishes himself in Eregion, he's got the forge, he grows up a little bit more and whilst he still keeps having the same fashion style, he also has more casualoutfits he's not afraid of ruining whilst working in the forge, like the below - still more black.

And then Annatar/Sauron appears, strokes Celebrimbor's ego, the Rings are made, we know. His fashion sense takes up a notch because Annatar is a bloody fashion icon and Celebrimbor is not immune to that.

(My brethren, I am unfortunately not immune to Silvergifting, pls do not impale me)

Thoughts? Prayers? Comments? Flagpoles?

[ivycova]

Sauron vs Galadriel & gender cross-dressing

Some of my thoughts inspired by Mercury Natis esse, where she speaks about Tolkien works and Sauron deviant sexuality and female fatal parralel, that you can find here.

She looks at it in the context of the plot of Numenor and its fall, but I noticed some interesting parallels with RoP that I wanted to share.

Keep reading

👇🏼

As Mercury writes, Sauron is a different type of force and evil than Morgoth, being his sorser and left hand:

The devil's right hand is so often in biblical narrative a woman who exerts power through seductive means. She is Eve, Salome, Lilith, Delilah, Jezebel the hore of Babylon lot's daughters and I could go on and on and on and on and on.

...Melchor is our devil figure, Melchor is our Satan figure, Sauron isn't, Sauron is the left hand of the devil and as I said, the left hand of the devil is almost always a woman. And that is a very different position to be in than the figure of worship himself as opposed to the false prophet, who draws the faithful in, and makes them unfaithful, and now you're worshiping the devil. It's a very different power dynamic there.

It is no mistake that Tolkien often uses the word lust as a metaphor for the will to power a drive to dominate. what Tolkien has done on numenor is choose to still use this Trope of the Ishah Zarah/ Femme Fatale, but as he didn't want to apply it to women he chose to apply it to a male character.

In a sense, Mercury confirms Sauron's need to worship a third higher being (Morgoth, Galadriel), but if with Morgoth he did it so to speak naturally, then as for the other characters and victims of his manipulation, it was his tactic for achieving power, not a male but a female strategy, which was rewritten by the authors of the Victorian era of the 19th century in to a concept of Femme Fatale:

Alice Bach book “women's seduction and betrayal and biblical narrative” is a very comprehensive look at biblical narratives, in which women exemplify villainy. These biblical stories, Bach explains, draw on the androcentric Biblical logic that women through Eve thwarted the divine plan. The fall and in turn original sin are Eve's fault, and so that stain continues through her line and through the daughters of Eve. it is in these biblical narratives that women offer deceitful delicacies to men who greedily reach out for them no matter what the dangers.

What we're seeing in Sauron and Ar-Pharazôn relationship is a complex power Dynamic that is usually presented in gendered terms. Women in our patriarchal society have been for most of history in a position of disadvantage in terms of power. So the Femme Fatale is a fear of women using their disadvantaged positions to gain power and take that power away from Men. It is as Maria Alberto notes in her paper on Tolkien's use of Seduction in his legendarium. That ultimately the nature of Seduction is deceit and manipulation. The purpose of Seduction is the attempted increase of power. This is the crux of the spike of the Femme Fatale in the 19th century in their art and literature that poured gallons of this Trope Into the cauldron of story. The way that Sauron enacts his power over Ar-Pharazôn is through the means of the Femme Fatale. He manipulates Farazone into taking him to numenor in the first place where he subjugates and submits himself to Ar-Pharazôn voracious need for hyper masculine dominance. And through honeyed words and a beautiful face through the means of Seduction available to the Femme Fatale takes the position of power. But through the guise of being behind the throne not on it.

It is also interesting that the change in gender roles concerns both Sauron himself and Galadriel. For she, like Eowyn at the beginning of the story in the first and second seasons, embodies the behavior typical of male characters:

- Worrier

- Active

- Powerful

- In control

Whereas Sauron's manner of interaction with Celebrimbor in the second season is purely feminine:

- give counsel

- understand/ empathizes

- passive

To understand the transference of gendered tropes across gender boundaries it is useful to just briefly review the feminine principle in Tolkien's legendarium as Melanie Rawls put it in 1984.

Rawls identifies that Tolkien doesn't limit traditional gender roles to sex bodies. Male characters like Elrond and Faramir can act in feminine ways and female characters like Eovin can act in masculine ways.  She identifies that in Arda the prime feminine characteristic is understanding, and the prime masculine characteristic is power. Feminines give counsel and masculine's act. In the case of feminines a good feminine is merciful and compassionate, bad feminines can be anywhere from wholly passive to devouring in their selfishness. Another way to put it is that feminines influence the world around them through understanding, through words and emotional attention, whereas masculines influence the world around them through action.

What is interesting is that in the first season Sauron plays the role of a secondary, driven character compared to Galadriel, but still a courageous, lost king who possesses all the characteristics of masculinity presented in the legends:

- sacrificial

- brave

- Active

And I am sure that it was these qualities that attracted/tempted Galadriel as a female character. And that power and her ambitions went hand in hand with them, because:

In Rawls his own words the feminine principle shapes individuals the masculine principle shapes events. What Rawls misses that Saluron does both of these things, and in the second age before he loses his body his primary mode of shaping events is through shaping individuals, and making individuals do the acting in his stead, using people, notably all male characters, as pawns towards their own destruction. Sauron's influence on Ar-Pharazôn is a prime example of this, where he uses his feminine characteristics as a tool to shape Numenor's demise.

The way that the seduction mechanism works with Sauron is about giving the other person the illusion of power, so they have to want power to enact that power on him, and then he goes, well actually I had the power the entire time so it's fine.

And yet he does not show his ambitions to dominate Galadrel, at least directly allowing her to think that she is in control of the situation. Supporting her ambitions for power with his service, her power over him, using his"false femininity":

in her assessment of tolkien's use of the word lust, Emma Hawkins notes that Tolkien seems to reject the idea that Evil just happens to people. Rather than being unsuspecting innocent victims evil is made through choices and in terms of a lust man is complicit in his own ruin. Herod and Ar-Pharazôn in being subject to their lusts are seduced But ultimately make the choice to give their seducers exactly what they want.

So when Sauron reveals his identity to her at the end of season one, on top of all the other obstacles to accepting the fact that Halbrant is Sauron, one of the hardest things to deal with was accepting that gender roles themselves had changed and changed forever.

And we see this at the end of the second season in their duel. When Galadriel is finally defeated in a direct confrontation with him.

But it is not the loss itself that is so painful, but the fact that Galadriel did not know herself or did not remember herself in any other role except the role of a warrior (male), which she herself admitted in a conversation with Elrond.

Gal- Who will I be without a sword?

Elrond- My friend

(not exact quote sorry)

So yes, season 3 is in many ways for me an expectation of how they will play out this internal growth of a character who is forced to leave his usual gender role and get to know himself from a completely new side, and reveal new side of a power that go hand by hand with that.

(Which essentially fits perfectly into her arc of transformation into a powerful forest witch and mastery of magic, namely, inner feminine powers).

This opens up an interesting window into their battle in Season 2, where essentially the false femininity of Sauron battles the false masculinity of Galadriel. And ultimately, they both fail to achieve their goals in this battle. Sauron in tempting Galadriel, and Galadriel in defeating Sauron with brute force.

Whether this theme will be further developed in the third season and whether it will become key at all, I don’t know, but the fact that it is present in Tolkien’s legendarium itself and in RoP cannot be completely ruled out.

How Mercury said in here esse, Tolkien was very specific on this topic:

In the feminine principle Rawls notes that where masculine and feminine are in harmony there is good, but evil is a result of insufficiency or disharmony of one or the other. In this case the evil is found in a cacophonous disharmony of the masculine and The Feminine where they are both fighting for control rather than actually working together.

[laerien]

While I'm not necessarily ecstatic about The Acolyte being cancelled as far as the future of Star Wars television goes, rewatching the first season of Rings of Power solidified my thoughts about why I think the former needed a bit more work.

The premises are pretty similar: a story based in a time we haven't seen yet in a world that has extensive lore but lots of grey area. Rings of Power and The Acolyte both capitalized on this to take liberties and add several new aspects; whether to genuinely add to the story or to fit into a studio's motive is anyone's guess. Both had fantastical aspects, established orders who refused to believe evil was returning, love vs duty debates, and an exploration of morality.

As a Tolkien fan, I was left feeling indifferent about RoP when it first aired. There were several things I thought would be established in canon that were suddenly changed, yet there were new additions and stories that I could still trace to very evident Tolkien motifs. While not perfect, the new characters, relationships, and storylines all sat clearly on a timeline that would undoubtedly lead to the Middle-earth we knew from the existing media. The dark was gone, it's returning, and we're going to figure out who, how, and why.

As a Star Wars fan, I thought I was very open to The Acolyte coming in and creating some new stories on the timeline. I have to give them some credit, as the majority of the characters were new to avoid blatant fanservice. However, with so much room to work with, I suppose I expected a clearer establishment of the story. A lot of time was spent with so many new characters and world building, and for what? We know Star Wars for being a battle for a better galaxy, just like the LotR franchise is a battle for a better Middle-earth. Without the war, but with knowing the Sith didn't canonically reappear until the prequel era, what was the intention of the season? The Jedi Order exists, the Sith are hinting at a return, but we're not going to figure out anything by the end of the season besides small hints that the Jedi Order is already corrupt, both Mae and Osha would give up everything we learned about them in their backstories in a single moment for something they've been fighting against the whole season, and Darth Plageius is hiding in the shadows even though there's a rule of two and Qimir's motive of having an acolyte to fulfill the rule of two is supposed to still make sense? Everything else that happened in the season is inconsequential to a larger picture, and I think that's why I struggled to understand it, despite genuinely liking several aspects of it.

I recently rewatched Rings of Power, so it's fresh and, while not without flaws, it was an excellent juxtaposition to The Acolyte. By the end of the season, RoP gave us an immensely satisfying answer to the Sauron plot point given in the first episode. It began each storyline, played adequately in each one, and wrapped up each one, all while leaving plenty of mystery in a way I found exciting. The Acolyte had appeared to have all the characters revolving around one story: the Jedi stopping a mysterious dark force from murdering more Jedi. The audience was left out of the loop on so many important things, that, by the time they were revealed, we already had more questions lined up. For all the work they did in making characters with fleshed out backstories, none of it seemed to matter when they made a choice that seemed irrelevant to it all.

I think I'm mostly annoyed that the Acolyte was cancelled because I hoped they could redeem themselves in a second season. Although, I think that annoyance is about equal to watching the finale and realizing the few mysteries solved were either full of holes or just confusing. If anyone can clearly explain to me if I'm missing something huge about the Acolyte's plot and character choices, I am very open to it. It's always exciting to see something new in the fandom, and it's always discouraging to feel like you side more with the never-happy fan trolls.

In any case, let's hope the second season of Rings of Power survives these never-happy fan trolls. I'm catching a screening tonight, but would also love to hear if people think I'm missing something terrible with this show.

[helenvader]

Overanalysing ROP because why not.

Me: Ah, look, King Halbrand was given a brooch/pin of "Ouroboros":

@queenmeriadoc: Bronwyn has snakes on hers, too... The Southlands give me very much "Viking era" vibes.

Me: Oh, and this lady has a guy of sorts:

@queenmeriadoc: A trickster! Loki! (Viking vibes confirmed)

@eowyn7023: Snakes seem like a Sauron thing. But maybe the buckles on her dress were handed down by Sauron enthusiasts. Snake is canonically one of the forms that Sauron shape-shifted into.

[Note: Maybe snakes are a symbol used in the Southlands because of their dark past; maybe they don't even realize the symbolism. Waldreg would, though.]

Me: "...then rest of him slithers in." If that's about Sauron (I tend to think it is), it's another snake reference.

And when you think of it, the torc has an "almost Ouroboros" design, too.

End of overanalysis. Maybe more could be dug up on snakes.

I've remembered this eldritch thing, maybe it's a snake head? The snake heads kind of look like a mix of dragon and snake on the images of Halbrand and Bronwyn.

Feel free to share if you have noticed more. :-)

[makeshiftdraco]

Questions 1, 10 and 14 for the RoP Ask Game. :-)

Thanks for the ask!

1. How did you find out about Rings of Power? What was the one thing that drew you to the show?

I've been a huge Tolkien fan since I was a kid, so my obsession with the books and movies has been a constant. When Amazon announced the series, I was thrilled.

The exploration of the Second Age was a big draw for me. We know larger events that occurred through Tolkien's writings, but I was excited to get more details on that era and those beloved characters.

10. Choose three characters. What jobs would they have if they lived in our time?

For some reason, it was hard for me to imagine a lot of these characters with normal jobs.

Pharazon would obviously still be a politician of some sort. That narcissist would thrive unfortunately.

Disa would be an opera singer. She's got the voice and the drive for that career, and she just reminds me of so many singers that I've known. And she would definitely pull off the elaborate costumes!

Elrond would be fully entrenched in academia of some sort, probably a super niche focus like Medieval manuscripts or historical linguistics.

14. Do you have a song you associate with a favourite character?

I generally have entire playlists of songs for certain characters or ships, so it's difficult to pick just one. Here are a couple that have felt particularly relevant lately.

For Sauron:

For Galadriel:

[holymusicalmothman]

This is the most controversial (I feel it is in some circles) take I’ve ever had on a tv show. IF YOU DONT AGREE JUST SCROLL. I’m depressed enough without people being jerks. This is my opinion. Not fact.

Rings of Power was a disrespectful disappointment of a show for me. Casting? Great! Characters? Loved em! It was wonderful to see the Second Age. Just about everything else? It felt like some shitty middle school fanfic with a billion dollar budget. Tolkien is rolling in his grave. At least the Hobbit films were respectful and feel like the original trilogy as well as the books. It’s a feeling of hope and humanity and love and I do not feel it in RoP.

I can believe that Galadriel could be deceived and maybe tricked into feeling something for a disguised Sauron. He’s the Great Deciever, a representation of the Devil himself. What I don’t believe is that Galadriel, still bonded to a very much alive Celeborn, would share a kiss like that with Elrond. Even less I believe that Elrond would do that. It felt forced, and shoehorned and wrong. Celebraín, Galadriel’s daughter, Arwen’s mother doesn’t even exist yet in that world—which is another key to the viewers that Celeborn lives aside from the fact he’s in the flipping Trilogy. The kiss was uncomfortable and unnecessary. There are other ways to sneak someone a pin. Monogamy is practised and adultery is unthinkable to Elves and I believe Dwarves as well. By their very nature, Elves are "seldom swayed by the desires of the body" or influenced by lust. They marry only once for it was ruled by Manwë that, "'since the Elves are by nature permanent in life within Arda, so also is their unmarred marriage”. You can’t change their nature. Does no one remember how thrown off Haldir was when Aragorn hugged him? They aren’t a touch freely group.

It was t all bad. I did like seeing Tom Bombadil, that made me so happy I cried and called my dad. He was the one to get me into the books when I felt I had “outgrown” Narnia as a kid. I like the concept of Adar. Would’ve liked confirmation that he was Morgoth/Melkor even more

Lord of the Rings is the most consistent fantasy world. There’s over 15 books outside of the Hobbit and the original Trilogy.

It’s not a fucking sandbox. You don’t get to make up new lore. Yes, you can stretch it a bit that’s fine. But to change the nature of the peoples of Middle Earth!???? Pretty sure Sir Ian would be more than willing to smack people upside the head with the books. Has he made a genuine, public opinion about this show? Everything I see that he “says” is contradicting.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. I’ve had a long day and I’ve cried because I hate my job(stressed and depressed and anxious af, I’ve already quit, just need to finish this month) so if you don’t like my OPINION. Keep scrolling.

I’m too stoned for this imma go freak out over tonight’s Eras Tour rep fit instead

[valar-did-me-wrong]

@orehuna Adar with his dining etiquettes, language skills & being good with kids might as well be the Diamond of the season! Meanwhile Sauron out here is busy with his rebounds xDxD

loving the Regency Era Horniness we are experiencing in this fandom!

Slutty Elrond collarbone

Hot peeking Adar's neck

Miriel & Elendil holding hands for 1 sec

Galadriel twirling Adar like in a ball

Loosing mind over gossip of a kiss

Elaborate lunch invitations

Excessive talks of jewellery

[sauronism]

annatar + celebrimbor // brandon + phillip ( rope, 1948 )

"I've always wished for more artistic talent. Well, murder can be an art, too. The power to kill can be just as satisfying as the power to create."

[markantonys]

i'd watched the first 2 episodes of ROP s1 when they first came out, but i found them boring and so didn't continue. however, i've been hearing that charlie vickers is eating and leaving no crumbs in the new season, and that is my sweet boy guglielmo pazzi from i medici (2019) and i've Got to see him killing it in a huge role, i'm so proud of him!!! always a delight when a previously-unknown actor from an obscure show you love ends up making it big

so i decided to give it another shot and dove straight into 1x03 after reading a summary of the first 2 eps to refresh my memory, and idk if 1x03 really is that much more interesting than 1&2 or if it's just that i happen to be in a different frame of mind now that's more predisposed to getting interested in this show, but WOW i am loving it!! i'm an extremely casual LOTR fan (in fact i wouldn't even rightfully call myself a fan, more just "i've watched the movies a few times and like them" haha) and so whatever complaints the fans have about ROP obviously are not things that bother me. i'm just here for a good time, and i'm having one!

the galadriel & halbrand plotline is definitely my favorite (heck, if the numenor stuff had arrived in ep2 instead of 3 i might've been on board with the show the first time around). i already know he's sauron, of course, so i was like "i won't get attached to halbrand since he's not a real person, just sauron's disguise" but fuck, i'm attached, and it hurts!!!!! loving a character who starts out good and turns to the dark is one type of pain, but loving a character who was never real at all because they were evil the whole time and this "character" was never anything more than a facade - it's an entirely different and perhaps even worse type of pain! i can't even soothe myself imagining an AU where halbrand never turned evil, because halbrand was never real! genuinely in immense anguish over this. but once i reach s2 and get to the Unabashedly Evil Sauron Era, it'll be so sexy that i might immediately go "oh no! anyway" and forget all about my anguish jdkjfg

............wait a moment. do i now know how show!rand must be feeling post-s2? attached to someone who was never real because they were always just an evil person's fake persona? oh rand honey i'm even sorrier for you now!

speaking of WOT, it really has broken my brain because i try to polyship everything all the time nowadays. why did i go "wake up babe new polycule just dropped" during that scene when galadriel, halbrand, and miriel had a meeting lmao girl you KNOW this bitch is sauron! but i already knew people were shipping him and galadriel, so i went in to my new watch expecting to see the vibes, and indeed seeing them, and i ALSO unexpectedly saw vibes for galadriel and miriel (two leaders overburdened by duty, oh it's my kryptonite), so how can i help creating a polycule? oh well, i'll enjoy it while it lasts and then once galadriel finds out he's sauron i will instead get some angst to enjoy! and she will still have her girlfriend to comfort her (as long as nothing happens to miriel.........i haven't heard any spoilers about her, so we shall see!)

back to halbrand, the "he's the lost king of the southlands" idea is such a clever misdirect because it allows halbrand to demonstrate unusual skills in combat/diplomacy/manipulation that we wouldn't expect a seeming peasant to have, but provides a cover for it and so we think this one "identity reveal" is all there is to it, and aren't suspecting a second, bigger identity reveal! and actually, as far as i can remember, he never actually confirms that he's the lost king, he just plants a clue to lead galadriel to believe it and then responds to her assumptions in ways that seem to confirm them but don't actually. very aes sedai of him! and hey, if the southlands used to serve sauron, wouldn't it technically be accurate for him to be considered their lost king? very aes sedai of him x2. liars who lie without technically lying are the best kind (gen from the queen's thief also). anyway, because of this misdirect, i don't think i'd be suspecting him of being sauron at all at this point if i didn't already know. on the other hand, there aren't really any other sauron candidates except adar who clearly isn't him. but back to the first hand, the show never set up a "one of our major characters is sauron, who is it?" mystery so i might just be assuming he was hanging out offscreen yet to show up, if i didn't already know.

i'm enjoying the other plotlines too! i remember feeling that the hobbits & the stranger plotline was the weakest link in the first 2 eps, but totally changed my tune now, nori and the stranger (who i'm guessing is gandalf, but i'm not sure, so don't tell me if you know) have the most wholesome friendship, i could die!!

or rather, the second most wholesome friendship after elrond and durin, which i remember was my favorite storyline the first time around. they are so pure!! and disa is a delight! she and elrond have impeccable sibling-spouse energy (yes we've got another polyship in the house, of course we do)

i'm trying not to get too attached to bronwyn because i know they kill her off between seasons due to the actress leaving the show, but i really like her :(( her son's kinda annoying, but he's an angsty teen, so i can't hold it against him. and arondir!! what a man, i'm swooning constantly over everything he says and does. i really like how in the most recent episode i watched they had a Good Guy (bronwyn) genuinely consider giving up her principles of honor and going to swear fealty to the bad guys in order to survive, it feels more realistic and it really sells us on just how desperate and hopeless the situation is (and on how sauron is able to get supporters by creating such situations).

it's also a visually gorgeous show, very decadent (i was practically drooling the first time they showed numenor haha i love white stone seaside cities, and the ancient greek aesthetic vibes are the cherry on top!), and the MUSIC!!!!! you guys know i'm a tv soundtrack fanatic, and my god, this is the best tv soundtrack i've heard in a LONG time. i'd put it as second to WOT because it's traditional fantasy orchestra whereas WOT's soundscape is so different and unique. but "traditional fantasy orchestra" isn't a knock here, because it's done INCREDIBLY well, so it does feel unique instead of generic like other, lesser Traditional Fantasy Orchestra soundtracks do. it's sumptuous, it's lush, it's rich, it's got very distinctive Themes for each character/location that always play in the appropriate contexts (which is one of my favorite aspects of WOT's soundtrack too). i'd been listening to the s1 soundtrack for quite a while before now, so i'm well-primed to recognize all the different themes!

my favorite has gotta be the halbrand theme, i have a character in my WIP who's a sad mountain prince (and a gawyn knockoff <3) and this theme just reminds me sooooo much of him, i cry. but if we dispense with the halbrand pretense after s1, we might not get to hear this theme anymore!!!! it's also the southlands theme, though, so hopefully we'll keep it, and i did hear it crop up briefly in a track from the s2 album. also, shoutout to the fact that the halbrand melody is an inverse of the sauron melody, bear mccreary you son of a gun (the sauron theme is another one of my favorites, the first time i heard it i assumed it was his theme from the original movies because it just had the feel of an Iconic Villain Theme, but no, it's new to ROP!)

anyway! i've watched up through 1x05 now. pacing's definitely still a bit slow, but i'm enjoying it nonetheless, and it's picking up now that galadriel & co are headed for the southlands. and i've heard that s2 is a big step up in many respects (a la WOT s2), so i'm excited to get there!

[thegreatzombieartisan]

“Gil-Galad gaslights Galadriel when he declared Sauron was no longer a threat”

This popular stance inaccurately personalizes what is ultimately an impersonal leadership decision. A manipulative one, yes, though not with nefarious intent. Rather, in service to what he believes will produce the best outcomes for both Middle Earth and Galadriel.

Consider Gil-Galad's decision from leader's perspective who must prioritize the bigger picture when disclosing sensitive information.

Juding by the ceremony for Galadriel and company, Gil-Galad was officially on the fence with Sauron still posing a threat. Not validating her is “gaslighting” as a necessary political evil for the greater good. It also presumes because she is entitled to his real beliefs while failing to recognize the risk of disclosure. The remaining episodes make it pretty clear: give Galadriel an inch and she'll take it to the moon. Oh, dear, what could go wrong? For Gil-Galad to so casually disclose his true beliefs to Elrond after Galadriel departs Middle Earth, tells us he didn't beforehand due to his herald's close friendship with her. The High King says to Elrond, "we foresaw” (royal we or plural we?) that Galadriel might have:

"...kept alive the very evil she sought to defeat. For the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause its spread."

There are a few different ways to interpret this. Knowing exactly how he reaches this conclusion (canonical wisdom, gift of foresight, or other means) would help narrow it down. If Galadriel's mutiny was given greater gravitas, as it should have had over disobeying Gil-Galad's orders, I would say he worries of her becoming evil due to her search, thus "evil spreading." (Maybe Gil-Galad read the script?) In any event, when the High King decided to end the war and send her to Valinor, updating Galadriel on Noldor happenings on Middle Earth becomes a moot point.

I liken S1 Galadriel to an American 9/11 neoconservative* hardliner, warning everyone about WMDs Sauron. Her aggressive zealotry renders Gil-Galad unable to trust her pursuing Sauron either as a commander in his army or discontinue as private citizen of his realm. If he discloses the fading of the Elves to her, he needlessly risks Galadriel's defection and jeopardizes his plans of intervention. And we know he's right when Galadriel reveals her plans to defect to Elrond post-ceremony. And since nobody has ever refused the call to Valinor, so he had no reason to think any harm might come from not telling her.

(Also, if you undermine your boss’s authority, and your subordinates rage quit, you might find validating you is not at the top of anyone’s to-do list.)

*A tongue-and-cheek way of saying she supports intervenist foreign policy a la Numenor to sending a military force into the Southlands to prevent the execution of a “weapon of mass destruction” aka Sauron’s “shadow lands” scheme.

It’s comparable to coalition forces sent invading Afghanistan to locate WMDs. However, in Galadriel’s scenario, the WMDs were within and alongside her the entire time.

Although Tolkien hated allegory, RoP has chosen include in its creative direction. The Southlands closely mimics the American post-Civil War Reconstruction Era minus the actual reconstruction. Pharazon is now a populist leader. I figured, why not carry-on with modern American political parallels.

[sindar-princeling]

ep 6 thoughts!

hell yeah, my dudes, run away from war

I don't like how they're making rings for men inherently more difficult/disobedient, as if to explain why it was the men who turned into wraiths

Annatar finally got a more complex costume this episode

I don't know what to think about that conversation between Galadriel and Adar. they're doing something weird with the lore again by mixing morgoth's crown and the rings and I'm just....... tired ajsjsjsjd

random thought about Elendil, but I keep thinking how cool it would have been to see him come to middle earth and speak the words aragorn later repeats at his coronation...... but of course elendil in rop already was in middle earth (in pretty nonsensical circumstances), so even if they include it, it won't pack the same punch

ohhhhh my god they're once again just hammering iconic quotes into the mouths of different characters and it's. First of all lazy (even if you change two words), second of all very annoyingly on the nose, third of all, there are so many ways to subtly show characters' influence on one another. straight up copying is not creative, it's not original, it doesn't tell you anything about the character who adopted that quote other than they can repeat stuff. did they have any feelings about it? do they agree completely or do they add their own spin on it as they go through life? you'll never know! the only influence you are shown is: character A heard something from character B, then later said it word for word to character C. it makes character A little more than a sieve for a glass of water - they don't have thoughts or feelings, they don't transform the things they hear, they don't filter things through themself. what falls out is exactly what came in. rop did it with sauron and galadriel in season one, and now with gandalf and bombadil. WHAT'S the point

on a related note, when will my beloved nienna get the respect she deserves for being the one who was teaching gandalf

also I'm not sure this quote doesn't fit bombadil that well. he's a force of life and joy, but he has no problem with commanding things to obey him, like Old Man Willow. he's 100% a benevolent character, but probably not someone who would say "who are you to rule over powerful forces", at least in my opinion, because few rules actually touch him, if that makes sense

making bombadil a mentor figure is strange. I don't think it works (again, talk about Nienna please. anything will do. just mention her, for me please). bombadil is random help when you need it, almost like a narrative equivalent of- maybe not exactly a deus ex machina, but a small-scale divine intervention nonetheless. he appears when you need him and disappears right after, and you can continue your journey, but he won't join you. he's not a guide or a mentor

okay we're throwing Elendil to a sea worm now. okay sure

why is Galadriel suddenly changing her mind about the rings when she's their number one defender. I feel like the change was very abrupt

"In the end, your drive to prove your virtue will work right into Sauron's designs" NOW THAT'S. WHAT THERE SHOULD BE MORE OF IN THIS SHOW!!! it's such a good move to integrate orcs into the biggest theme of tolkien's works, namely "all races are stronger when they don't isolate themselves from one another" this is what this whole show should be like!!!! FUCK

there are those glimpses, now and again, where you see how cool this show could be, and it becomes even sadder that it's not

is it just me or is Adar is kinda getting the marvel villain treatment this episode (aka says things that make a lot of sense but they make him a hobbyist baby killer so you don't fully support him). why would he destroy all of eregion as a means to kill sauron if he wants orcs and him to be accepted and left alone to live in peace?

obsessed with the way Celebrimbor's pencil looks just like a normal modern pencil sharpened by a normal modern sharpener

I'm sad the deceiving era was so short and celebrimbor is already distrustful. it was fun to watch the scheming unfold

it's really unfortunate how many easter eggs make you roll your eyes

oh you could SEE the green screen with that transition

still not the worst episode because at least we didn't get Isildur's useless subplot

rop season 2 episode 1 thoughts

at this point you gotta admire the creators' dedication to absolutely bizarre choices when it comes to sauron. 15 minutes in I'm already going what the hell and fuck. like what was that supposed to be. genuinely

Charlie Vickers has grown on me; he still doesn't have much to work with in terms of the script or the plot though

this whole introductory sequence was there....... I'm not sure why? we could already extrapolate all that, and I mean All That, from the previous season

it still pisses me off that Galadriel is The Main Idiot and Everything Is Her Fault

also, I am reminded by all the plot and worldbuilding choices that annoyed me before. why is mithril important for the elves' survival again?

CIRDAN HIII CIRDAN <33333

I'm so glad they kept his beard

believe me, I AM trying to find things to like about this show, but the plot choices feel like so much unnecessary drama. Galadriel and Elrond fighting feels.... tiring. I feel like all Galadriel does is fight with people

oh are we getting Rhun?? 👀 Nice

this is a personal opinion but the elven women have wayyy too strong and modern-looking make-up

it's a shame galadriel gets the ring because she's power-hungry and reckless, not because she's one of the mightiest elves in middle-earth. she SHOULD be power-hungry, don't get me wrong, it's one of her best traits, but this way you don't put any sort of accent of how very important and mighty she is

sauron having a Badass Walk into mordor at the end of s1, which was a really cool shot to end a season on, only to then get himself in chains and then turn away and come back to Celebrimbor has got to be the most '???' moments of this show. they really have no idea what to do with him

overall I'd say my main gripe, apart from the plot solutions, is that this show doesn't have much to say. it's showy, it's lore-heavy (even if I don't like the lore they came up with), but so far it still has little heart and thought behind it. to me at least it doesn't feel like it really wants to tell you something

[ramoth13]

The Orcs and their Enemies:

Characterizations and Dynamics within The Rings of Power

With the introduction of "Adar" the influx of conversation regarding orcs has somehow diminished, rather than expanded. I see this as a huge fault and seek to remedy this immediately.

Orcs serve such an important role in Middle-earth because they are the vehicle by which we understand Morgoth and Sauron's greatest sin. Violence and destruction are obvious and constant, but the truly horrifying aspect of fighting them as enemies, is the knowledge you're fighting your own kind. Its a sick and twisted thing that these once beautiful people were malformed and tortured to become these husks of vile monstrosity. Getting them right is so incredibly important when it comes to Middle-earth adaptations. So I'll begin.

The first thing I noticed about the orcs, was that they were a new kind of terrifying. In Peter Jackson's films, they were scary, but more because of their numbers and their monstrous looks (practical effects are always better in my mind, and Jackson embodied that for me) rather than because of what they were. Jackson's orcs were a kind of infestation, a menace of the likes of violent pests.

These orcs are conniving, vicious, and sinister. But they are also very intelligent. They move like distorted elves and think like clever assassins. These aren't your run of the mill orcs from video games and "good-guys-always-win" trope badguys, that die immediately from a single smack. They have character. And what's more, they mirror everything the elves hate about themselves (in a culturally relevant way, the self-violent kinslaying etc.) and yet somehow remain connected with their former selves, or what they would have been if not for Morgoth's corruption.

Notice that the lesser orcs wear bones and cloth, whereas the leaders wear worn and mismatched Elven armor? And the scene where Adar ends the misery of one of the orc leaders, the orcs then remove the elven armor, obviously prized, and seem to pass it on to whatever the next leader will be. They haven't had access to forges, hiding away, they've become scavengers. Now, only relics of a bygone era, the armor that they do have have been passed down for a long time. I would bet that as the seasons go on, we will see orcs slowly assimilate other armor types into their ranks. And I also bet that the last season we will see forges and new orcish armors. Love that detail.

The second thing I noticed about the orcs made me smile. THEY BURN IN THE SUN. Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings made mention of this, especially in relation to the Uruk-hai, but did little else with this as the series went on. But the hobbit movies completely ignored this, having full orc chasing dwarves scenes in broad daylight. In Rop however, they are leaning into the beauty of that element.

Morgoth's inverting of all that makes elves, elves, is exactly the kind of legacy that is so important to consider when watching these moments between orcs and elves. That Arondir cries over a tree was just perfection, but that the orcs knew what it meant to those Silvan Elves was amazing. We see Morgoth's inversion of nature further by the light itself. Elves live in light, starlight, moonlight, sunlight. They thrive in it. The silmarills were so coveted not because they were gems, but because they held the light of the trees now long lost (though, one could argue that the sun and the moon are descendants of that light) and yet orcs are not just repelled by such light but burned by it.

The attention to detail regarding the orcs is very cool and fascinating. And of course, if we are speaking of orcs, we must also speak of Adar.

I have said previously that it would only make sense that some elves switched sides. And we have one instance of it seen in the Silm&Hist. What makes him so fascinating is that in his own twisted way, he seems to love his "children" and in a singularly fascinating way, they seem to genuinely respect him. Morgoth and Sauron rule by fear, this is explained again and again. But Adar really does seem like a different thing altogether. He does not seem to hate the elves (at least not so far from what we've seen with Arondir, but that could be because Arondir seems very young for an Elf, much like his "Children") rather they appear to be an impediment to his goals, whatever those are (ascending to god-hood perhaps?).

I've heard mentions of Adar being Maeglin and I think you are supposed to think of Maeglin. I think that is exactly the kind of character they are portraying here, but I don't think it will be an Elf that we know. I think Adar really is a whole new character. But, we'll see.

Finally, so far, every orc we have seen slain has been an incredible achievement. It felt like a real struggle, even for Arondir. These orcs are the orcs that could invade and conquer Gondolin. These orcs could attack swathes of elvendom and cause real chaos.

We will never know what happens to orcs when they Die, but I like to imagine these orcs showing up in the halls of Mandos, reformed into the Elves they should have been, finally in a place where their acceptance isn't reliant on strength or backstabbing. And these orcs are orcs that could become that.

Also, I know this is a orcs appreciation post, but I just wanted to say that I love Bronwyn in this scene and the orc slaying scene. She made it believable to fight a monster and survive, and that's wonderful.

Savo 'lass a lalaith, mellon nín!

~ Ramoth13