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asklesbianonceler · 3 months

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My Analysis on Count Ymir and Metyr

This is my personal analysis on the lore and plot as a whole, Carians vs other sorcerers, an Ymir character study, a Metyr study, and my take on it in regards to gender and deeper themes and motifs. (From a positive lens)

Blue is for things added later: last updated 8/20

I've made a post on sorcerers and their downfalls prior to this and it is still extremely important to look at the differences between sorcerers who go too far like Sellen, Azur, Lusat, and graven masses as a whole vs Ymir. Because Ymir is most closely related to Rennala, literally and narratively. They are both Carians and experience "corruption" via a similar outlet.

Sellen, and the others who looked into the primeval current, only craved knowledge. They were far more detached from the beauty and divinity of everything around them and aimed to know too much. Graven masses are students who go too far. Even Thopps somehow dies from studying too hard. This happens because of their own actions. We don't kill or fight them.

There's one thing that is consistent with all Carians. Their downfall is their hearts. Ranni makes this so clear with her poorly veiled attempts at avoiding attachment with our tarnished. She tells us to tell Blaidd and Iji how much she loves them. She is detached because she knows she must be but she is terrible at hiding that she still has a heart. Rennala was consumed with grief and loss after the golden order presumably caused her and Marika (Radagon) to miscarry as well as forcing the love of her life away from her. She also loses all of her children to their own ambitions (they move out and do their own thing) Regardless, she is a husk because of love. Rellana abandoned her home to chase after love which was likely unrequited and still she forged swords of matrimony that she wields alone until her death, ever loyal to protecting the man she fell for. Rennala understood Relanna was chasing what her heart desired and sanctioned it. This is just a known fact about Carians. They get it. Their downfall is not knowledge but succumbing to love.

We know that prior to his involvement with finger sorceries Ymir was far more of a romantic than other sorcerers. Beloved Stardust's description is from a recitation he gave as a teacher to the Carians and it states that "One need only envision the romance of the stars above with adoration for stardust in one's heart to become a greater sorcerer. Do so, and you will know love."

He tells us it's only natural to want power and the truth but to no extent is this like Sellen's quest. He is not asking us to enable him like she is. Yes, he moved on from his studying of the moon, but it was not the same way she did. She wants to unravel it all and lay it bare, pick it apart. She is also driven to understand the elden ring which is very golden order centric. (want to be clear. I love Sellen)

She wants to dissect the life in the stars. Ymir wants to appreciate it's beauty. It is a clear clinical vs whimsical, both to negative extent. Sellian vs Carian.

We have no way of knowing his history in the lands between. He looks extremely similar to the figure on the Carian inverted statue and also has ties to Miriam, but that's all we can know for a fact. We also know for a fact that there are fingercreepers in both the gardens of Caria Manor and the flipped elevator of the Carian Study Hall.

I saw someone suggest recently that these were here as original assassins of the greater will to thwart Ranni back when the Greater Will still spoke to Metyr. I do like this. I believe the fingers were there for a very long time trying to accomplish something. Further I would suggest this is where Ymir first began to question them as he was no doubt in at least one of these Carian locations pre move to the Lands of Shadow.

We also don't know his early history in the lands of shadow aside from him teaching Rellana which he likely also did in the Lands Between. It seems clear Rellana brought a few Carians with her (the handful of white robed sorcerers, Moonthryll, and her teacher Ymir)

But we can come to two possible ideas from Manus Metyr and both give us a similar end point.

A. he had his own family and a child named Yuri who died very young and was buried in the graveyard, perhaps the only family he brought with him when he left everything and moved there.

B. Yuri was always just the fingercreeper and the fact that we can read the grave pre-quest is A an error. (odd but still completely possible) Or B this implies he has been continuously trying to birth the same fingercreeper over and over. The original fingercreeper child, Yuri, that he came to love dearly that never lived long being the main grave and the others all potentially being the additional failed attempts

Later on, during his research into the fingercreepers/two fingers he learns everything he knows in present day Elden Ring, becoming a high priest of Metyr and learning many of her spells. It is also during this time that he seems to beg Metyr/The Greater Will, to allow himself to birth fingers of his own.

This can be interpreted two ways as well. And we'll go in order from our last A and Bs.

A. He loses his only child in the land of shadow and is aware of Metyrs abilities. The GW (Or Metyr?) takes pity on him and shares power with him, allowing him to birth the fingercreeper Yuri. It is up for interpretation whether Yuri actually has the soul of his lost child in it or if Ymir is just so thankful for this new child that he projects his dead son onto him. I don't think there's any emotional distinction here.

B. He wishes to become the new envoy of the greater will from the start and is given one singular child, or just one child who lives, again, likely out of the desire for connection, pity, or perhaps pettiness of Metyr. (i'll come back to this in terms of Metyr giving him power). Through this he inevitably comes to love Yuri because obviously he is going to love his first child more than life itself.

As i said, the end point is the same. He is a Carian. He loves too fiercely. His original goals are pushed aside by the love he has for Yuri. In private he only talks about Yuri. He doesn't muse on and on about clinical knowledge or his desire to replace a god. He does not speak with any hint of madness, just utter devotion that I could see being seen as unhealthy. (i don't interpret it this way at this point but i get it. Just remember he is someone who is nearly completely alone in the land of shadow who has potentially experienced loss of severe magnitude before)

I also think that what we overhear at Yuri's grave sounds completely normal for grief. He wishes to be left alone and when he talks to Yuri he talks about only wanting to be his mother. He laments failing and promises to try again for him. This also lends to the idea that he believes there is a singular soul being moved around.

He only talks about Yuri. He isn't talking about replacing Metry and these are his most private thoughts.

I have seen theories that suggest he did not birth Yuri himself and perhaps stole him. His dialogue in private heavily implies he birthed him himself. As well as his unaltered robes which say they conceal an abundance of squirming beneath. So he had those fingers under there the whole time, definitely not as large and efficient as the ones during his boss fight, but they were there... and they were functioning.

I also don't think he ever comes off as this delusional? that might just be me but everything he says and everything Jolán says about him contradicts this. If there's any delusion it's the denial that comes with grief where he could believe his child's soul is in the baby fingercreeper.

But back to his quest- when we meet him he knows that the fingers that told Marika what to do were corrupt because Metyr is corrupt. He is exclusively blaming Metyr for this source of sickness. (this is an instance of him being a not fully educated narrator. He is slightly right, but needs to go further, a further we only learn from item descriptions where we learn the GW no longer wants a finger mother* i'll get back to this. But also THIS IS SO IMPORTANT WE LITERALLY LEARN THAT THE LANDS BETWEEN LOST THE PLOT AND THE FINGERS AND ANY ENDING THAT FOLLOWS THEM IS WRONG)

I believe at this point he thinks he birthed Yuri through the powers of the greater will and himself exclusively. I don't think he believes Metyr was involved because he knows Metyr is sick. He thinks the GW still wants a finger mother to send new messages.

We do his quest, we bind ourselves to our fate in the stars and of course that fate leads us to slay another remembrance boss. We need to clean up all the failed ideas of the GW so they aren't sticking around and causing trouble. Classic tarnished shit. iykyk.

EDIT: there is dialogue I missed and it seems dialogue a lot of people missed. If you talk to him after fighting Anna but before Metyr he asks you if you saw something down there, referring to Metyr. He tells you to remove it and any misconceptions from your mind lest it bring woe upon the both of you. (This is paraphrasing I don't completely remember the exact wording rn but it's essentially this). He doesn't want you to mess with Metyr. He has his own plans. He knows something bad will happen and he tells you to forget about her.

So why is Ymir hurt by you fighting Metyr even though the quest lead you hear? Irreparably hurt even? (1 and 2 can exist together still. they are not exclusively one or the other)

He had pushed aside this loftier goal and was still grieving for Yuri and only wanted to be his mother. The mother of one child. (To me that feels like it isn't taking it far enough. I do think he firmly believes he can do it better still. He hasn't realized the full truth. I just don't think this is at the forefront of his mind at this moment. He still wants to be The mother. His high opinion of himself makes it clear he believes he can do this)

He did not know that the GW had no need for Metyr any longer and that she had been broken and abandoned. He merely thought she was corrupted. So when he is possessed BY Metyr this is awful. He wanted to be a new mother. Not the same one.

GOES WITH MY PREVIOUS ADD ON: he may be aware he is using Metyr as a power source and believes killing her will affect him negatively. It is unclear if he knows the type or extent. Perhaps believing it will take away his power or perhaps aware it could be too much for him. He is also learning from her, so her untimely death would also be bad simply for this reason.

Okay now it's time for me to talk about Metyr in greater detail

The Staff of the Great Beyond says Metyr was broken and abandoned but still kept waiting for messages. This is also what the spell fleeting microcosm says which is likely referring to both Ymir and Metyr at this point since it is a spell that can be purchased from him as well as one Metyr uses, going on to say "The broken and discarded are fully willing to cling to fleeting simulacra, earning them some modicum of sympathy" He is a clearly broken person who thought he was grasping the GW's truth but wasn't and Metyr was clinging to her old life hoping for it to come back and for her to have purpose again despite being abandoned by her own mother. Metyr is unique and incredibly complicated which is interesting because her closest equivalent is the Elden Beast and other falling stars. Her items make it clear she had complex feelings- anger, grief, loneliness, resentment, loyalty. She WAS the magnificent gleaming daughter of the Greater Will. She was once loved and she knows that. Her other remembrance weapon is called Gazing Finger, but it's the name of its move that tells us the most about her. Kowtower's Resentment. She showed unwavering respect to the GW but she grew to resent it. We learn so much about her that only further ties into the overall themes of motherhood in Elden Ring. Imagine how Metyr must feel. Aside from the brewing hate inside her caused by the GW directly TOO her she is also forced to watch her children either grow increasingly more and more corrupt over time or slain. She knows her children aren't going into the world to be loved any longer. She knows she's sending them off to a terrible fate and still she must do it. Her children are purposeless. When we tie our fate to the stars- the great cosmic will- the new plan, it brings us there and it prompts us to kill Metyr and clean up its loose ends. But instead of letting herself be killed outright or leaving the lands between/shadow, she goes somewhere else because she is angry. She wants to be loved and needed. She is desperate to receive messages again. She wants to prove herself. We can say for certain that it is Metyr that possess Ymir in our fight because the GW has no desire to make a new mother of fingers and Metyr had already been lending him her power. There is only one and we clearly don't kill all of her at first. Is this her last effort to best the GW or merely her defiance to continue on living? Waiting to be of use again? Alas, we kill Ymir as well. ALSO- just mentioned Metyr to my wife and she said "Yeah Metyr is so similar to Messmer" and I literally said OH FUCK. YEAH! So let's touch on that: Both of them are abandoned by their mother, trapped somewhere, enacting her original design, spreading her original message all while never hearing from her ever again and still remaining fiercely loyal to the end.

Now back to Ymir and Metyr

Was Metyr sharing her powers with him out of loneliness or spite or simply curiosity?

It's definitely something that's up for personal interpretation because I don't believe these are spells just anyone can use or learn. The simple glintstone nail spells even say Ymir thinks they are "child's play" but fleeting microcosm and Cherishiny fingers are very different. The nail spells are ones others may be able to learn but the other two are unique to finger mothers. Also the act of birthing fingers is not a spell. It's Metyrs own unique ability and purpose- so clearly Metyrs power directly from her.

Did she long to be understood? To share what she was going through with someone else? Was she trying to show him that it wasn't her that was broken?

Did she resent him for blaming her and studying her? Or did she herself think she was to blame? Did she share her grief with him out of spite? Making him too experience loss via Yuri?

Or did she also have a bit of hope that maybe through a new vessel she would be seen again by the GW? Maybe her children wouldn't be cursed.

She certainly shared quite a lot with Ymir for it to be out of spite and their items and spells mimicking each other in descriptions really makes it feel like she wanted him to understand her. Both of their staffs show a microcosm but receive no answer. She lets him birth her children.

And Yuri is clearly aware of this. He's likely never seen Metyr but still has nightmares about her. Ymir telling him to "put that tangled mess out of his mind" He's torn quite literally about his origins. Ymir is his mother but Metyr is a presence he is aware of and in unfamiliar with to the point of fear. Perhaps this is what brings about his early death- that incomplete or splintered origin.

On to Ymir boss fight speculation/ theory

We have our ideas on why Ymir was hurt and upset by us fighting Metyr. Him taking on her corruption and learning GW truths as well as his own grief already being too forefront. But I wonder if when Metyr possessed Ymir he took on her grief and loneliness as well. Would he be able to cope with her literal cosmic scale of loss and heartache? Being misunderstood? Being abandoned by her own mother? I think it's a really interesting foil to have Sellen and co. destroyed and driven to insanity by knowledge and Ymir driven to insanity by grief and love. It makes the tear streaked makeup on his boss model hit a lot harder that way and feel far more intentional as tears which is what the dripping black really evokes (despite is being part of the tattoo category of character creation which is definitely just character creator limitation)

When we fight Ymir he also has a really effective voice inflection change as well. Props to his voice actor for almost making him sound completely different and just gone.

But yeah it feels clear that his fight is the built up madness of both him and Metyr's greatest desires manifested. They're consumed by loss and anger and a desire to be wanted and seen in the eyes of the greater will. They both want to receive messages and be The Mother.

Then we get his normal voice when we kill him where all he can think of is Yuri again and wanting to be his mother. He isn't thinking about being THE mother. Literally just Yuri. What is most important to him. The true Ymir. And of course, it's similar to Rennala's true voice coming through when we beat her, speaking about her beloved daughter, just HER daughter, not the sweetings.

I truly don't think he was as insane or gone as people think he was in nearly the entirety of his quest. and I honestly just think people default to saying "oh he's insane and delusional and freaky" because he is a "man" who is a mother.

okay thank god i can finally get into the gender of all this.

What do we know about Ymir in regards to gender?

Names are intentionally chosen in fromsoft games. Ymir was a norse giant who, though using masculine pronouns, was considered neither male nor female because he could birth children of his own.

He is named after an agender mythological figure who also has a moon named after him.

So we can read into Ymir being agender. He uses masculine pronouns, wears headwear that is strictly feminine, very neutral royal attire (we don't know enough about Carian clothing to have an opinion on the robe, gloves, or pants), a little makeup, and has no hang ups on being able to be a mother.

I, as someone who is nonbinary, have my own unique connection to him as a character that makes me really like this about him. In my brain gender means nothing which separates me from my trans wife where gender and expression mean everything. I have never had a mental connection to gender. I have presented many ways in my life since coming out. My outward appearance does not dictate my relationship to gender nor what I can do. In fact I think about gender very little.

Motherhood not being synonymous with female pronouns here is cool to me as well. it is nice gender non-essentialism.

But if we get into Elden Ring as being about women and the feminine divine as a whole, we can also read into him differently.

I've seen many people tag him as being trans to them! And I like that just as much.

He studies the fingers which are exclusively ruled by women. Metyr is their mother, finger readers are all women, then of course finger maidens. Even further, Metyr is a daughter of the GW. He says we ALL are her children. The GW is the original mother of all things. The creator of all life because she created stardust and to study the stars is to study the life in all things. Nearly all societies in ER are led by women. There is an innate power in womanhood in ER.

He gazed into the stars with adoration in his heart and knew true love. He felt loved amidst that divinity and sought to follow that path for himself. He embraced something that meant everything to him body and soul. He underwent true physical change for it. And with Yuri he was happy.

And of course, as all soulsborne games, it has to be tragic for us to see beauty in it, so he, just like nearly everyone else we know, faces a terrible end because of the fate of our tarnished and the GW's goal. He isn't a villain because he has a unique relationship with gender and it is kinda wild i've seen someone say that.

My additional thought on this is that it feels unnecessarily detailed for his robe description to talk about the ruff that "sparkles like a flower wet with dew" We really only get two other characters specifically connected to flowers and that's Malenia and St.Trina. Both are related to feminine identity, divinity, and true self. Malenia becoming the Scarlet Aeonia, her true form as a goddess, and St. Trina literally being the woman Miquella was meant to become. A literal transition could have saved her narrative.

So yes, I can absolutely see people interpreting Ymir through a trans woman lens as well. I love that different people can identify with this character differently and see parts of themself here and if other people have different takes on this character's gender identity and it making them feel represented, that's great! I just can only talk on my personal take and the discussion i had about him with my wife.

Can I see why people wouldn't like him? Yeah, so long as it isn't based on a lack of knowledge of the plot, items, and dialogue, or based on extreme pre-existing biases. Because I have seen a bad take or two that boil down to this kind of misinformation which is really frustrating.

There is no evidence in the text that he is a bad person. Jolán respects and cares for him immensely. She doesn't reveal to us any actual feelings about Anna and this is all very vague. Yes Anna is a puppet but Nox are the only people we know of that did willingly become puppets. She is also a recusant which is interesting as well. Most invaders are just invaders. Recusants specifically are invaders with a job (recusant fingers only come from Rykard but are snake scaled so potentially also Eiglay? Base Serpent? She may have just served another master). There may also be a reason for this due to game function alone or there may be the narrative reason. We really can't know much about them as they are side, side characters. But them being Nox i think is telling. He was also clearly a very respected Carian sorcerer and was a teacher to Rellana. Textually, he is never portrayed negatively by others nor in his items.

Here are some final add-ons

that i don't want to complicate my earlier jumble with that whether important or not, are worth seeing. I just didn't know where to add them. Also I do not have a final interpretation of these things in the greater context:

An item I would like to touch on as well as an item that goes hand in hand with it (pun intended) is the spell Cherishing Fingers as well as Fingercreeper Ashes. Cherishing Fingers says "The dear fingers look after their mother, or perhaps that is merely what the mother wishes to believe." but Fingercreeper ashes says " They are ever so fond of their mothers at this tender age"

These two items kind of contradict each other, implying the fingers DO care about their mother. But the intentional doubt is interesting. Fingercreeper ashes, as well as Yuri being in his arms really makes it feel like they do care, but perhaps as they grow older they don't? Or this can help drive a "delusional" narrative. But fingercreeper ashes really make it seem like it goes both ways.

Also, Why are the ruins (Miyr) beneath Manus Metyr just an anagram for Ymir? Did he name them that? Did he name himself Ymir? Is it a cool coincidence that he pogged at when he found out? Is it just a random world building choice? This I literally cannot interpret.

I thought of the name change thing and that lead me to investigate every single rise on both maps to see if one could have been his but nothing seems likely. but on to Rabbath's rise

Anna's puppet body is there. Rabbath is a known sorcerer who was a spellmachinist. Being a machinist is very anti everything Ymir does and is into. Is Rabbath the person who designed the marionettes? That is a loose end we don't know the answer to and being a machinist is telling but this is extreme speculation. I saw someone suggest he and Ymir may have been either friends or rivals- both could give potential case for Ymir's puppet being there. Again. JUST speculative interpretations of this because we also do not know enough about Anna either. Rabbath also, like many other Rise owners, doesn't appear to be dead. Some Rises have a gravenmass in them which feels clear was the original owner. But Rabbaths is empty and something different about Rabbath's rise in comparison to most others is that all the candles in his rise are out. I don't know what this means. Why is Anna in a part of his rise that is nearly inaccessible? To me this makes it seem like she’s exclusively there to be kept safe as this place can only be accessed by us on torrent… literally no one else.

I'd like to add some additional, after the fact, thoughts and observations I have no place for as well

In terms of Jolán I’m confident her loyalty to Ymir stems from the Nox’s belief that one day their lord of night will come to them, bringing with them the age of stars and the fate that the Nox had been stripped of after their banishment. She refers to Ymir as her shining star and after he is gone she only sees darkness. I could very well see her believing Ymir is the promised lord of night as he so heavily believes in the fate of the stars and brings stars to her life personally.

But by all accounts the Nox hate the GW and were the ones who created a blade to slay its vassals, which Metyr is one of. Perhaps this is where Jolan and Anna disagreed. Perhaps this is why she is a puppet now. Anna may have stayed true to their beliefs where Jolan instead saw the promised liege and pledged her service to him. Again, anything with Anna is still speculation but it would make sense if she and Anna and the other swordhands of night were initially there for a reason as they are the only Nox in the lands of Shadow and wear fingerprint armor independent of their connection to Ymir. Perhaps the fingerslayer blade was made for Metyr, the source of the GWs words. Perhaps this is the cause of the injury on Metyrs chest. This is something I could get far too into speculation on though. But it is interesting to speculate on as the location of her injury is not somewhere she would have fingers, so likely not Ymir’s doing, and is also a real “going for the kill” location. Again, chew on this one as you will.

Cherishing Fingers: I thought about this A LOT and I wish it was easy for me to fit it into the upper main post. Cherishing Fingers is "one of Ymir's spells" so why isn't it in his bell bearing? We get it not when he dies but after. It isn't dropped with his death loot and it only shows up after we rest and it doesn't show up on his body it shows up at Yuri's grave. And I know you could say "Well characters like Rogiers items are gotten from where we last saw him sitting even though he's gone) but we already got all of Ymir's things. Literally 6 items worth of loot. This is intentionally somewhere else. So two theories. This is not Ymir's final item given to us but Yuris. The fingers no longer have to protect their mother and are no longer trapped in rebirth so they leave behind a spell after they too finally pass on. Theory 2, Ymir, after our fight, chooses to die by Yuri's side, at his child's grave, leaving behind a final spell to remember him by. Regardless there is a reason this spell is separate and special. It's description that can sew doubt, to me, is negated by the positive description on the fingercreeper ashes that confirm they do love their mother. This also being found at a fingercreepers grave is also very telling.

The caged fingercreepers: if you look close and really work your camera, there are a handful of cages only near Ymir's throne that have fingercreepers in them. Are they still alive? Are they in there for their safety or because Ymir thinks differently of them/they aren't as important to him as Yuri? I do not have a final interpretation of this but it's important to note here. I have my wide reaching headcanon about this of course but it isn't something I'm confident presenting the way I present these interpretations.

Ymir’s neck ruff: this is only coming up because I’m writing a full over the top clothing analysis for him, but this one is connected to the lore, not the independent character design choices and it’s actually quite interesting. Aside from its description as a flower, which I mentioned in my gender portion, it also uses the word dew, something that has a specific and loaded meaning in ER and there are a lot of important Dew items. The new item dewgem, being connected to sprites, the dewkissed herba and Celestial Dew from the eternal cities, and Blessed Dew and the icon shield depicting erdtree boons and a divine age. Because dewgem is very hornsent adjacent I'm more inclined to connect it to the latter two types and I think I'd like to connect it to them both at once instead of picking but feel free to side with either. I'm just telling you how I feel. The allusion to celestial dew and glowing like a star, mentioning fate in the night sky, and being the dew of absolution is all interesting and this would be one additional connection to Joláns adoration to him, seeing the resemblance and iconography of her stars on his person. Creating familiarity. His mentioning of redemption and desire to break the cycle of corrupt messages also ties well into the idea of absolution and new beginnings. He is obviously tied to the stars, but the ruff is gold much like the blessed dew items which are described as divine, depicting ideas of eternal prosperity and blessings which paint dew as a concept as something extremely symbolic and sacred. Dew in both forms represent a new age and gifts of that age- one being absolution and fate, the other prosperity and divinity. Ymir believes in all of these things. Unlike the Nox he values the Greater Wills goals and words. He wishes to help bring about a new age, guided by the stars, via the Greater Wills untainted words. So the connection to blessed dew wouldn't be "erdtree good" but moreso how dew was viewed during that time and to those who believed in it. It seems more like a nod to the prosperity possible in a new age with roots that are not tainted and mad. A motif intentionally conveying similar ideas that others already have positive connection to. (You thought that erdtree was good? Imagine a tree that isn't corrupt)

OKAY ANYWAYS THANKS FOR COMING TO MY TED TALK!! If anyone stuck around for the whole thing I will be truly baffled but thank you if you did! Love Ymir with all my heart! if there are any typos or repetition please understand i really just kept going train of thought style here and its a lot to reread 4 times over to keep double checking as every time i got sidetracked.

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miquella-everywhere · 11 months

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Miquella and the Carian Royal Family

Okay so, I read somewhere in cut content(which i cannot find for the life of me 😢 if anyone knows what in talking about plz help me out lol) that it was apparently Radagon who introduced Miquella to the Carian Family. Which is... a pretty damn awkward situation all around lol

Like really, can you imagine being Miquella? Going into your fathers previous family and seeing all things that he had done to stifle them; the Preceptors mask, their step-siblings(Ranni and Rykard specifically) hostility to the Golden Order, Rennalas declining mental state... Like what sort of feelings would Miquella have had in that situation?

Could they have been indifferent perhaps? Maybe they felt pity or guilty for Carias decline? Or maybe it was the beginning of a budding disdain for Radagon and Fundamentalism altogether?

Either way, it's evident that Miquella spent quite a bit of time there, what with the Miquellan Knights Sword being based off of the Carian Knights Sword and even the Haligtree Knights, the absolute pain in the ass they are, know a few Glintstone Sorceries meaning Miquella was heavily inspired by the Carians and clearly respected them.

And the Carians also seem to have respected Miquella as well, so much so that one of their own Knights, Loretta, would switch sides and swear fealty to Miquella and their Haligtree, but also remain loyal enough to leave behind her spirit to defend Caria Manor.

So with all of this I can't help but wonder about the relationships that Miquella may have had with the rest of the Carian family, and I plan on discussing it in this post!

Keep in mind that some of this is speculation along with a few personal headcanons, so take all of this with a grain of salt please lol

Rennala

Just... Rennalas whole deal with her grief surrounding Radagon and her obsession with rebirth and the scholars that come from her amber egg is already pretty heavy. And then for Miquella to come in and potentially meet his step-mother(who's mind may or may not have been declining at that point) could lead to a very awkward confrontation.

Could Rannala had resentment towards Miquella? Or could she have been utterly enamored with the eternally young Demigod and treated them as one of her own?

Rennala: My little Sweeting :)

Miquella: Well I guess I'm a little sweeting now 🤷

akdhhsajdh Either way, regardless of her true feelings it's clear that Rennala allowed Miquella residence at Caria Manor, and it's from there that Miquella became acquainted with their other Carian Step-Siblings.

Ranni

Ranni and Miquella are both two characters that, at a glance, seem like they wouldn't get along at all considering the canon lore.

Ranni was a Carian Sorcerer, Miquella was a Golden Order Fundamentalist. Ranni murders Godwyn to further her own agenda, and Godwyn was Miquella's beloved older brother, someone who they loved very dearly, going so far as to concoct a plan to revive his soul somehow. So at first you'd think that Miquella and Ranni would be hostile towards one another considering everything, but as I digged more into the lore and Ranni's passing mentions of Miquella it became apparent, at least from Rannis viewpoint, that there is no ill-will between the two Empyreans.

At the very beginning of the game you encounter Ranni at the Church of Elle and she asks you if you are riding a Spectral Steed called Torrent, and, if you say yes, Ranni seems pleased by this and gives you a Spirit Calling Bell and the Lone Wolves Ashes, both items that were entrusted to her by Torrents former Master to hand off to you. (which also implies that Miquella knew Torrent would choose a Tarnished like what???? 😳)

Later on she specifically says that she is pleased to see Torrent hail and hearty, and when you hand her the Finger-Slayer Blade she extends her thanks to Torrent in his part in all of this.

So, CLEARLY, there is much more going on here than we're being allowed to know, with Torrent likely acting as an extension of Miquellas will while they slumber.

But the important thing that can be gathered from all of this is that Miquella and Ranni seem to be pretty okay with each other for the most part. And if you subscribe to the theory that Miquella sent Malenia to fight Radahn to free the moon and their fate, like I do, then it becomes fairly obvious that Ranni and Miquella have quite a bit in common, and perhaps even have a shared fate.

But unfortunately we'll have to wait until the DLC to get any concrete confirmation for any of this lol 😭

Radahn

The most important thing you need to understand about Radahns character is that he is kind. He is a good man who was respected by his Generals and Soldiers alike, and he was a man who loved animals as well. So if you think that he didn't see his two cursed younger siblings and thought, "Wow these two need a role model," then you are wrong.

jk 😂

But really, I can't really find much of a connection between Miquella and Radahn, other than the locations of Miquellas Lily in Redmane Castle and Sellia, which indicates that Miquella did spend time there, but the more important connection to focus on is the relationship between Malenia and Radahn.

Malenia likely always aspired to be of use to Miquella, especially with how dedicated they were to finding a cure for her, so she probably trained to be able to weild a sword from a young age despite the Rot essentially crippling her. And Radahn most likely found that to be very admirable of his younger sister, so my theory is that while Miquella stayed at Redmane and studied at Sellia, Radahn probably taught Malenia a few things or two about combat and the art of war, before she ended up meeting her Blind Master later on.

And if anything this just makes their final confrontation in Caelid all the more tragic :'(

Rykard

While Miquella was famed for blessing the low and the meek, Rykard was infamous for his cruelty and blasphemy. You wouldn't think that these two would have anything in common, but they actually have quite a few parallels to one another:

They are both sons of Radagons (who both became estranged from him later on)

They both have a proficiency for mechanical engineering i.e Rykards Iron Virgins, Miquellas Pulley Bow/Crossbow and Prosthetics

They both have a form of disdain for the Golden Order: Rykard and his blasphemy, and Miquella outright rejecting Fundamentalism

So with all this I can imagine that their relationship/interactions would have been... Interesting to say the least.

Now this part is speculation/headcanons, but with Miquella's arrival to Caria Manor Rykard would definitely have felt disdain for his prodigal half-sibling, and would have likely ribbed Miquella as eloquently as possible. But Miquella, an Empyrean, steadfast and determined, would not have backed down from Rykard.

Cue the most intense discussion about Religion and Science in the Lands Between ever. Everyone within earshot of these two are terrified 😂

So I can imagine that despite their differences Rykard and Miquella probably had a mutual respect for one another. Heck, it hasn't been posted yet, but in my Lily Hunt in Mt. Gelmir you can find several Miquella's Lily's in some pretty unlikely places, meaning that Rykard did allow Miquella to be on Mt. Gelmir doing... whatever it was that they were doing there lol

Also

Wouldn't you say that the Tonic of Forgetfulness is a little too floral for Rykards aesthetics???? 🤔

I mean, in cut content, if Miquella/St. Trina had the ability to make Dream Brew, which doubled as alcohol and a way to peer into someones deepest secrets, it wouldn't be too farfetched if Miquella could craft a brew that could erase someones painful memories.

If this theory is correct then it definitely puts an interesting spin on Miquella and Rykards relationship; two characters who are complete polar opposites to eachother.

But if Rykard commissioned Miquella to create a tonic that would give Tanith the option to spare herself from the potential pain of Rykards blasphemous path, how could Miquella refuse such a request? After all, they know very well about the desire to relieve someone of their pain and suffering.

#uri posts #elden ring #miquella the unalloyed #elden ring theory #ranni the witch #rennala queen of the full moon #starscourge radahn #rykard lord of blasphemy

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nimrodinked · 2 months

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Snakes, Flame, and the Cycles of History

Hello out there, missed me? Well office employment does so drain a person, though not of creativity. And, what with Elden Rings DLC out and me playing it, the time has come for more rambling. This is going to decidedly be more couched in theory and game lore, though Vaati I am not.

It goes to say that this will be a very spoilery talk, be warned.

For one, I am really quite pleased that the story has become clearer in the DLC. What with NPCs and very straight forward storytelling I am able to craft quite a more concrete picture of the goings on in the Lands Between, as well as implications beyond. For one, finding Bonny Village, Gaol, and seeing the jar people was quite horrific and visceral, and that coupled with Marikas own village being an empty place bathed in gold make for a heart tugging emotional moment. That connects nicely to Messmers theme, which also sounds a remix of part of the opening title. Messmer (foe of my beloved people) is quite the interesting character, even putting aside his yaoi MC proportions. Even if I haven't found much in the way of evidence myself, as far as timelines and just vibes go Messmer certain comes across as the oldest of the demigods sired from her. I'm fairly certain all of Rennala's children are older, but for Marika-Spawn he's certainly the oldest. He's also cursed just like his siblings, and here is where I am most interested and focused. Honestly the DLC gives enough that I may make more than one post, though I prefer to write here longform, and I'm not sure how much I could cook up from my brainpans secretions.

In any case, Messmer and his crusade are the first main obstacle most players will run across, seeing as the furnace golem is right smack dab outside. The closer one gets to his keep, the more and more fire-relations one can find. Messmers embers are described as embers of his fire, the fire knight armor and spells describe messmer giving his fire to his troops, the grease describes that everyone, even rank and file in his legions use fire. So, clearly, and obviously he is very connected to fire. But, and what most people will assume more sinister, he is connected to snakes. Snakes are part of him, both the winged ones that appear on his outside, and the "base serpent" that I am assuming resides within him, as he unleashes full snake attacks when he breaks his grace seal, while his first phase largely involves his titular flames. The snake, the 'abyssal serpent' within him was sealed by marika with the same bestowing seal that Radagon (presumably) had received. And that's stated.... Somewhere as the reason that Marika had shunned Messmer and sent him on his crusade. Given snakes and their already close connection to blasphemy, it makes sense. However, contrary to that, I have quite another theory.

Mainly I think that Messmer represented a threat to Marikas "eternal" ruling by way of his flames. Seeing how naturally the flames of the giants are feared and shunned by all who worship the erdtree, Marikas firstborn not only having the fire-red hair of the giants, but also a mastery over fire itself must have been not only humiliating, but a threat to all that Marika ruled over. And Messmer doesn't just have fire, he's got Messmerfire! Which sounds like it's the same but from every description and allusion, it's quite potent, potent enough to lay waste to the land of the hornsent through their largest of soldiers. The Furnace Golems, which may not be directly connected.... But they work in a land of fire, scoop up hornsent and burn them to ash, and you can even bring one to life by throwing a hefty furnace pot into it's head. A hefty furnace pot is crafted using messmers embers among other ingredients, and the description says that the flames burn away both body and soul, cleansing the victims. This would no doubt be a cruel fate for the hornsent that worship and revere souls... But it also puts Messmers flames on the level of extremely dangerous to the erdtree. It's consistent if not immediately apparent that fire is treated very poorly by most everyone within the Lands Between, so much so that the Lord of Blasphemy just so happens to also live in Volcano Manor, the semi active lava zone of this fucked up mario game. Snakes and fire... But while Rykard most certainly leaned to the snake side of things, Messmer is flame all the way, to the point you need his internal fire to break open the sealing tree and access the final area of the DLC.

So, the assumed firstborn of Marika possessed not only a horrid inner curse, but flame powerful enough that it is it's own incantation school. That's another interesting thing littered through the dlc and the game in general. Faith. Faith makes power, more than power draws faith. As shown by the faith talismans describing a mass of believers, faith is the strongest affirmation. Now, let us further this idea. Messmers fire, much like Melinas, was capable of burning a tree, the symbol of power in Marikas order. He was also afflicted with a curse of snakes, which Marika sealed away without helping. The blessing of marika is quite clear on this. "Once she made several of them for Messmers sake, but never again". So.... Why? Why not help her son after pushing on him the onerous task of crusading in her name? Or perhaps it was after the crusade began that Marika got an idea in her head. Messmers gear says that he made himself the symbol of fear and hatred for the hornsent, allowing all the feelings of resentment to flow to him. Not exactly deific.... But just as he was loathed by the hornsent, his knights venerated and even worshipped him. He was a demigod, after all. So this being of fire, gaining new worship and power in the lands between, would almost certainly represent an eventual threat to Marikas rule. As for why she never again made her healing flasks for messmer, I also have an idea. The kindling of messmer describes it as being eaten away at by a snake. the sbake within Messmer no less, his base serpent. Sealed away, it would have no way to sustain itself should it need to, the only things to gnaw on were it's host. So, rather cruelly, Marika may have realized that allowing her son to wither, his powers to wane, would be the smartest course of action, however horrible it may be.

It's a tragedy that, despite flame being his power and gift, Messmer hated it. The orb of messmers describes that he often wished to be rid of it, but ever would it burn. With that chestnut we might think that, rather than gaining worship on purpose, Messmer wished to impart his gifts so they would lessen. A description reads that he tried to implant his flame in others but failed, and the incantations are a way to make up for that. When you fight him he even maintains that he keeps eternal watch, and allows no one without light to pass. He even begs forgiveness from his callous mother as he plucks his own eye out to release the snakes. It's only when he's freed of both life and vigil that he curses Marika, perhaps as a realization of how far he's been betrayed, or perhaps a final damnation of his unrequited feelings of love for his deity parentage.

So! Messmer, poor deluded fool, was betrayed and left out of sight to guard a piece of Marikas mistakes, much like Maliketh. Everywhere you really look into it, the queen eternal seems to get worse and worse. It's interesting to look back on moments like the ashen capital, like gideons speech with new light. Marika, it seems, really is the worst. Tragedy colors her ascension and I really do feel for her, seeing how she didn't want to cause yet more death in her new golden order. But she has done horrid things to keep that order, and while her atrocities have a shinier, cleaner coat of paint, they reek of the same barbarism the hornsent employed to their enemies and underlings. It makes me wonder, really, if there is such a thing as a good ending for Elden Ring. While I haven't roflstomped tender miquella, I've heard his ending is quite seperate from the main game, meaning that we're still stuck with ages of mediocrity at best. And, even with an ascension to "perfect" order, it seems difficult to believe that all will be well, as the rune only claims to quell the hearts of men, and as you can see clearly across the lands between, there is a much deeper rot that spreads...

Anyway! This was fun, this is the first game I've really felt the need to sink my teeth into in regards to fromsoft, though I've enjoyed stories of theirs before. There's plenty more to discuss, so perhaps I'll make another lore/theory post of my thoughts. As for my closing thoughts.... Well-

CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD! CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!

#elden ring #shadow of the erdtree #queen marika #marika the eternal #messmer the impaler #base serpent messmer #game lore #video games

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lullinglily · 12 days

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since requests are closed, here's a list of what i've got in my inbox and what you should expect to see soon!

♡ needle knight leda x fem!reader

desc: hcs for a fem!reader who looked after miquella at malenia's behest

♡ malenia x gn!spouse!reader

desc: malenia's late consort returns to her as a tarnished, and seemingly with no recollection of their prior relationship

♡ st trina x gn!reader

desc: upon fulfilling trina's only request, reader retreats back to her garden to give their saint some much needed comfort

♡ malenia x fem!doll!reader

desc: malenia's childhood confidant goes to great lengths in order to care for her sickly beloved

♡ sfw alphabet for fia, deathbed companion

♡ sfw alphabet for rykard x reader x tanith

♡ sfw alphabet for rennala, queen of the full moon

♡ sfw alphabet for starscourge radahn

♡ sfw alphabet for lunar princess ranni

♡ general relationship hcs for starscourge radahn

♡ sfw alphabet for queen marika the eternal

♡ general relationship hcs for d, hunter of the dead

#elden ring x reader #imbibe nectar :: anons

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newwillinium · 3 months

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Elden Ring Musings: Rykard, Ranni, Radahn; the Children of Sentiment

So Pat has just finished streaming Shadows of the Erdtree, Woolie and Reggie are actively going through it, and I finally gone through my Vaati backlog.

And I have some thoughts, thoughts that should not touch on anything in the DLC at all, but just some idle musings regarding the children of Radagon and Renalla and what ties them all together.

The value of Love and Sentiment. Inherited from both of their parents.

I want to kind of start this with some backstory as a bit of a refresher.

-][-

Long ago before the arrival of the Erd Tree, before the Shattering and the Coming of the Greater Will, there existed many peoples spread out across what would become known as the Lands Between. One group in particular is important to this tale, The Astrologers.

Sword of Night and Flame: Astrologers, who preceded the sorcerers, established themselves in mountaintops that nearly touched the sky, and considered the Fire Giants their neighbors.

One such Astrologer was the young girl, Rennala, who had forever explored and followed the stars until finding the majesty of the Full Moon.

The young astrologer gazed at the night sky as she walked. She had always chased the stars every step of her journey. Then she met the full moon — and, in time, the astrologer became a queen.

This girl, Rennala, on her travels would be accompanied by Trolls. Descendants of the Fire Giants whom the Astrologers called Neighbors, these Trolls were bound by Oath to the girl who would be Queen. And yet, these Trolls, looked down upon by so many and enslaved by the Golden Order, were treated as true oathsman and knights of the House of Caria.

Carian Phalanx and Troll Knight Sword: They were the comrades of the young Rennala, bound by oath. Called into service when the Queen invoked an oath they swore, the trolls are treated as true knights of Caria, and fight arm in arm with their human comrades.

In time she went to the Acadamy of Reya Lucaria and enraptured them with the might of the Full Moon, becoming their Eternal Queen and establishing the House of Caria as Royal.

She, her Glintstone Knights, The Knights of Caria, and the Academy would serve as the truest rivals to Queen Marika and her Golden Order.

Twice they warred, and twice neither side could gain victory, and so the Champion of Queen Marika, the Red Haired Radagon, cleansed himself in Celestial Dew (I mention this because of something important later) and declared his love for the Queen of Caria, and so they wed.

Celestial Dew: Once upon a time, the stars of the night sky guided fate, and this is a recollection of those times.

In long standing tradition, Rennala would grant her new betroathed a Sword (which he would later keep and reforge into a symbol of the Golden Order).

Together they had three children. Rykard, Radahn, and Ranni. The Praetor, The Lion-Warrior, and the Carian Princess turned Empyrean.

We honestly don't know much about the childhoods of the trio, but we do know a couple of things.

Radahn held in him a worship of the tales and stories he heard of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord, and took great pride in the Red Hair of his father. Ranni found a favored mentor, who existed outside the bounds of the Academy or the Golden Order, and was accompanied by a companion Blaidd, a shadow sent forth by the Two Fingers to guard the Empyrean Princess, and an old family vassal Iiji the Troll.

Of these companions, Blaidd was looked upon kindly by the Queen and was adopted as a step-brother to her three children. Otherwise Radagon had brought with him a Great Red Wolf.

One day, Rennala would lead Ranni and Ranni alone to greet the Full Moon as she once did. This is where Ranni found The Dark Moon.

Then one day Godfrey was banished from the Golden Order, and Radagon made the decision to abandon his family to become Queen Marika's Lord Husband and Second Elden Lord. Though before he left, he left his beloved Rennala a gift, a great Amber Egg containing the Great Rune of the Unborn, and left the family dog with her.

He kept his marriage-sword, and reforged it to show his new dedication to the Golden Order, and in a show of graciousness Queen Marika adopted the three children of Radagon as her own step-children.

Rykard would become her Lord Inquisitor, Praetor, and punisher of her enemies. Radahn would earn the title of "Starscourge" for his rapacious victories over the Star-Beasts, and learned Gravity magic at the feet of a Alabaster Lord, and Ranni would come to know her fate.

Rennala was shattered by Radagon's betrayel, and when the Academy turned against her, reclused herself within the Great Library clutching the last sentimental gift of her husband.

This is where the timeline gets. . kind of murky.

Rykard stations himself at Mt Gelmir, rediscovers old Death Hexes and creates Magma Sorceries, learning of ancient lore and forgotten gods. He meets a Dancer, a commoner and possible prostitute, and marries her out of love.

Radahn finishes his tutelage under the foot of his Alabastor Lord teacher in Sellia.

Collapsing Stars: A gravitational technique mastered by the young Radahn. "I thank you for your tutelage, for now I can challenge the stars." Remembrance of the Starscourge: "The Red Lion General wielded gravitational powers which he learned in Sellia during his younger days." All so he would never have to abandon his beloved but scrawny steed. Starscourge Talisman: The mightiest hero of the demigods confronted the falling stars alone—and thus did he crush them, his conquest sealing the very fate of the stars.

Here is where he earned his title, as the Stars rained down, his mastery of Gravitational magic allowed him to crush them all, and arrest the movement of the Stars.

-][-

The Shattering

I'm going to be speeding up a bit here.

Ranni, bitter and hateful at her fate as a Empyrean, conspires to remove herself from the contention and does so through the partial theft of the Great Rune of Death.

Using the Rune she creates the Black Knives, disperses them to Assassins, who proceed to carry out the Murder and Assassination of the Demi-God Godwyn, just as Ranni kills herself.

Godwyn's body lives on. Ranni's spirit lives on, and the Stars are halted, and the Fingers are blind.

Astrologer's Robes: Robe fashioned from supple cloth. Worn by those who look to the cosmos above. They read fate in the stars, and are said to be heirs of the glintstone sorcerers. But alas, the night sky no longer cradles fate. Varre:"The words of the Two Fingers cannot be trusted. Truly, naught but rambling, senile delusions. I believe, that when the Elden Ring was shattered, the Two Fingers were corrupted, their guidance; skewed. Even worse, the Fingers harbor no love for our kind. That's the part that irks the most." Finger Reader Enia: "… But here we are… The Fingers, dormant, severing our link to the Greater Will. The realm, and all life, in ruins. Impossible events transpire, beyond the ken of the Fingers. Who is to say that the cardinal sin must be cardinal forever? Go on. Finish the job. Take the course you deem most worthy." Finger-slayer Blade: "The hidden treasure of the Eternal City of Nokron; a blade said to have been born of a corpse. This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City and symbolizes its downfall. Cannot be wielded by those without a fate, but is said to be able to harm the Greater Will and its vassals. "

I am going somewhere with this, just you wait I swear.

So Ranni fashions for herself a new body, a doll, made in the image of her Mentor the Snow Witch, and keeps a watchful and protective eye on her shattered mother.

Rykard, and Radahn, siege Leyndell only to be pushed back by the Fell King Morgott/Margitt, Radahn ultimately meeting a cursed fate at the hands of Melania, Blade of Miquella, and Rykard and his forces fighting a apocalyptic battle with the Armies of the Golden Order that shattered the landscape, before ultimately ending with their armies destroyed.

Gelmir Manor, still proudly displaying pictures of the Praetor Rykard and General Radahn.

Rykard trusted by his little sister, to be her backup plan should her plan fail.

And Radahn, who held back the Stars and Fate itself, so that his Sister would have a chance to break free of the fate forced upon her.

-][-

So this is a rather important part I feel that gets kind of overlooked in the base game.

Rykard, Ranni, and Radahn are siblings.

"General Radahn, Praetor Rykard, Lunar Princess Ranni. Willful traitors all!"

It's evident in the game itself that the siblings held fondness for one another, and most importantly trusted one another.

They may not be kind, but they are each and every one of them sentimental to a fault.

Tonic of Forgetfullness: A gift bestowed by Rykard, sworn to blasphemy, to Lady Tanith, who unfortunately had no use for it. "My Lord, there could be no greater distress than to forget you." Blasphemous Claw: On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death.

When Radahn halted the Stars, he blinded the Two-Fingers from the reach of the Greater Will, he freed her from her fate and in doing so freed the Shadows from falling into madness.

Which is why, I think, everything falls apart after the Radahn Festival.

When the Stars begin moving again, Ranni once more has a fate and can wield the Finger-Slayer Blade.

But she no longer has the body of an Empyrean. Her Fate is that of the Stars.

She abandons her vassals and followers, to walk that "Dark Path alone", in order to try and keep them safe from what she has to do to ultimately free herself and all the lands of the influences of the Outer Gods.

Radahn, I think, played a major role in that.

That Starscourge Radahn holds Ranni's fate in stasis. But once he's out of the way, it will spring back into motion. So now, we stand against the demigod once known as the strongest of them all.

Note: The Radahn Festival happens usually when Ranni is slumbering, due to the limitations of her doll body, and Blaidd and Iiji consider the Radahn festival to be the best way of accessing Nokron to grab the Finger-Slayer Blade that Ranni requires to save herself.

-][-

So I. . .ultimately don't have too much of a point to my musings.

Other then that, I think that the "R" Family is ruled by their Senitments and Sentimentality towards those they care for like Family.

And that Radahn might not have been Ranni's enemy as is so often suggested by those who interpete the lore, but perhaps yet another ally who had been lost to madness and decay.

Those are just my musings at least. What do the rest of y'all think?

#elden ring #ranni the witch #starscourge radahn #praetor rykard #discussion #lore musings #spoilers are welcome #Base Game Musings but DLC contributions are welcome

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