#Prologue Analysis

[fogaminghub]

https://www.fogaminghub.com/post/explore-the-chilling-choices-of-until-dawn-s-prologue

🌌 Ready for a spine-tingling journey? In our latest blog post, we breakdown the choices you face in the prologue of Until Dawn. Follow Beth as she navigates through the ominous Washington Lodge and make decisions that may haunt you! Don’t miss out on the chance to influence this harrowing tale! 🔥💔 

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Hey Raven, hope your doing well. I was rewatching book 5 and something struck me. Crowly stills does his thing to get yuu/mc to host the NRC tribe at Ramshackle. But compare to previous chapters hes seems a little nicer, i guess? He offering renovations and upgrades ( a positive), instead of just threatening to cut yuu's food budget or something (a negative).

Where im going with this is, do you think Crowley may have felt a tiny tinge for his (in) action in book 4? Or atleast, realized he actually screwed up. He did give Yuu in case of an emergency.... and promptly ignored it (or just turned it off) when he went on break. He likely had to have heard what happened over the break...an likely saw his missed calls and put 2 and 2 together. Sure he may not feel bad enough to apologize (at least openly), but he does seem to make himself scarce early in b5. That could just be him being, well, the headmage. Maybe he's just not sure how to deal with MC or how they'd react to seeing him? So instead of threatening Yuu, he offers them something instead? Idk, maybe im reaching. Crowley relationship with Yuu is complicated. I do like to believe he has some empathy or regret (or maybe he just has more respect for yuu by b5?) After everything up to that point

Like i said, i may be reaching here. Wanted to get your input. Sorry for the long ask. Have a good one :)

In many fandom depictions of Crowley, he often serves as Yuu's guardian who is incompetent but well-meaning. I'm also guilty of doing this, Crowley is considered my OC's father figure (even if my OC isn't a Yuu). That's how we choose to engage with the characters and the world that we love! However, I don't believe that Crowley has that sort of tenderness for Yuu in canon, whether at the start or as their relationship develops over the course of the main story. Now, that's not to say that I think Crowley is cold or hateful towards Yuu. Far from it! He does care for them, but in the same way that a teacher might care about nurturing their students and preparing them for the world beyond graduation. Crowley demonstrates a similar attitude towards other NRC students, with one very clear example being in his Raven Jacket vignettes. In those stories, he likens his students to apple trees that he raises and nurtures, hoping that one day they might bear fruit. He does not particularly grant Yuu special treatment unless it's a scenario where he wants them to do a favor for him. (Though here I would also argue he does the same for other students when he wants them to resolve an issue in his place, which happens frequently in event stories; in Fairy Gala, he warns the boys they'll be held back if classes cannot proceed due to the wacky weather. In Ghost Marriage, Crowley shames the boys for not expressing interest in rescuing Idia, etc.)

I also want to set the record straight regarding how exactly Crowley gets Yuu to comply with his requests. Reviewing all avaliable books in the main story, Crowley rarely outright threatens Yuu if they refuse to help him:

Prologue — Crowley does not initially ask anything of Yuu, but he does provide them a temporary home and food until they can sort something out. During Yuu's stay, they are meant to do handiwork to earn their keep. However, Crowley tries to expel them after their involvement in breaking what is considered a precious chandelier. In this case, his anger is somewhat justified but it's still the one major example of Crowley leveraging something to force Yuu to act in a way that he desires. The thing is, it's revealed in chapter 19 that Crowley did not believe Yuu could acquire the magestone he asked for and was all set to finalize the expulsion papers. So really, he wasn't serious at all in giving Yuu a chance to redeem themselves and was going to expel Yuu anyway (until they happened to prove their "usefulness"). Whether this counts as an example of Crowley "threatening" Yuu, then, is up to individual interpretation.

Book 1 — Crowley makes no specific request to Yuu. He shows up late in the book and suggests to the frustrated Adeuce that they fight Riddle to claim his seat as dorm leader, but does not tell Yuu to do anything in this situation. Recall that it was Ace that marched up to Ramshackle's front door and demanded that he be allowed to stay overnight; Crowley had no part in that.

Book 2 — In 2-7, Crowley asks Yuu to investigate the strange string of accidents that has befallen the students set to play in the upcoming inter-dorm magift/spelldrive tournament. There is a part where Crowley says he "never promised to cover living expenses". You, as Yuu, have the option to ask him "Is that a threat...?" to which Crowley never properly responds. Interpret that how you wish. He then offers Grim and Yuu a chance to participate in said tournament if they succeed, seeing as they lacked the 7 players needed to form a team. Crowley even says he will find 5 other players to fill in their missing team seats for them.

Book 3 — Here in 3-6, Crowley never actually threatens to cut off food. Instead, he is trying to earn pity from Yuu by guilt tripping them and emphasizing that he, the headmaster, is so busy with his tasks (like finding Yuu a way home) and will provide them with the funds they need regardless because he is so very kind. He's trying to tug at their heartstrings by pointing out the things he selflessly does for them, so they feel obligated to do something for him in return. Once Yuu agrees to help, he lavishes them with praise and says it is "expected" of someone he personally chose.

But!! I want to add that in the Episode of Octavinelle manga, this same scene is depicted as Crowley threatening to cut their food budget. I'm not sure if this is just a different interpretation (since Yuuta seems to prepare more food than is usually implied in the game; this would explain why their food costs go up significantly) or if Crowley truly was also threatening to cut the budget in the game.

Book 4 — Crowley makes a reasonable request in 4-2; he asks Yuu and Grim to tend to the fire fairies over winter break since it's a task no one else will be present to handle. In exchange, he says he will give them a banquet of tasty foods (which is not an empty promise; in 4-39, the Ramshackle Ghosts tell Yuu and Grim that the headmaster has left them with a ton of food as thanks.

Book 5 — Crowley appears in 5-21 asking that Yuu allow the NRC Tribe to stay at Ramshackle for their month-long training camp. He explains that Vil and Rook are willing to give up their share of the prize money if Yuu agrees to these terms. It is then that Crowley adds that he will help with renovation too, most likely to sweeten the deal with his word.

Book 6 — Crowley does not ask anything of Yuu. He does, however, call in STYX in 6-2 because he becomes concerned about the threat that Grim poses after consuming multiple crystallized blots. After Grim is taken, Crowley instructs Yuu in 6-4 to wait until Grim has recovered and been evaluated by a third party to speak with him again.

Book 7 — Crowley makes no specific requests to Yuu.

You can see in almost all instances that Crowley uses a variety of tactics to get his students to do what he wants them to. He bribes, shames/guilts them, points out very real consequences if the problem at hand is not resolved, and, yes, occasionally makes what can be interpreted as a vague threat. Despite this, the fact remains that he was always nice, not just post-book 4 (in fact, Crowley was also nice during book 4). I don't see the circumstances as "anything before or during book 4 is him being negative and threatening to punish Yuu and anything after book 4 is him being kind and positive to Yuu". In most cases with Yuu, he is offering them something they would want. His go-to strategy isn't threats, it tends to be the promise of a reward.

I wouldn't tie any of Crowley's actions to feeling a sense of remorse or guilt on his own part. While it's true we don't really get to see inside of his head, from what we see of him... this man is utterly shameless. He's willing to resort to emotional manipulation to convince literal children to solve problems that he, the powerful mage and adult, should be dealing with. What's more, he praises himself for Yuu's competence and willingness to step up. That's him placing a lot of faith in his students, and I don't think he feels any guilt in doing this. Why else would he send them into dangerous situations over and over again? He must, to some extent, believe they can already handle themselves just fine, otherwise he's creating tons of legal liabilities for himself by purposefully throwing children of tons of affluent families into the line of fire. Besides, he's a highly skilled mage himself--if any true, TRUE danger were to befall them, surely he could save the day himself. My thought is that he has sort of a "tough love" approach where he tosses his students into the fires and sees how they get out of it in one piece, but it's just presented in a "devil-may-care" way because of his lackadaisical attitude.

Regarding book 4, I personally see Crowley giving his cell phone number as just a means to provide reassurance to Grim and Yuu, since they (especially Grim) are protesting about him seemingly leaving on vacation. It's an empty gesture so he can have his getaway without much of a fuss; I totally believe that Crowley did not ever intend to answer his phone. When he returns in book 5, he's already asking another favor of Yuu, so I get the sense he isn't really bothered by what happened. I would even say that Crowley still has several major appearances in book 5, not that he has made himself scarcer. He appears to ask the favor, appears again to evaluate their performance, and then a third time at the cultural festival to speak with the headmaster of RSA. Crowley gets plenty of screen time here, much more then in books 6 and 7. If he truly felt bad or actively wanted to avoid Yuu, he could easily just tell other students (ie Vil) or even school staff (ghosts, teachers, etc.) to relay the deal for him.

Again, I want to be clear: THIS IS NOT CROWLEY BASHING. The only thing I am expressing in this post is that while I do love this bird-brained goober and think he cares for his students, I don't believe it's done in the conventional sense you're thinking of. Crowley can be selfish and callous and throw his students into danger, and that's okay! Sometimes we want to love a useless man who's trying his best, even if his best is pretty lousy/j

Whew, that was a lot of brain dumping! I hope I properly responded to all your thoughts and that you found this read semi-entertaining~

[freakinflipflop]

Hey ISAT fans. You ever think about how, despite the fact that stars and constellations do exist, craftology exists as an in-universe replacement for astrology? Like it's written off as a joke bc you find out about it in act two but like. Stars are so thoroughly wiped out that the lack of an astrological system is something that we take for granted as an in-universe joke, in spite of the fact that they are vitally important to the game and in the title????

Yeah cause I'm thinking about that right now.

[humornaut]

hi!! i’m a relatively new omori fan (a brainrotted fan, however, with 140 hours in the game so far… and 98% completion bc i lost to the recyclepath.. -_-) anyway, i love your analysis posts, you’ve clearly studied the details of this game very well!!

i was hoping to ask about the timeline of white space and headspace creation, if you have the time and would like to! my roommate and i played together and have tried to piece it together a few times over the four playthroughs we’ve done (two of each route), but there are still some details that seem contradictory to me. i’m sorry if this is obvious though!

so the transcript of the truth album says “you sink into a crevice in your mind… an empty white room” so i initially assumed white space was created on the day of the incident, in that dissociative state while mari was in the bed. you also see this in the sequence after three days left before going back into headspace where it’s sunny and basil in front of the door, then sunny in white space, then the manifestation of omori. of course, we’ve also been told “you’ve been living here for as long as you can remember”, but we can assume the “you” is omori instead of sunny, which makes sense if he was created in white space

however. in the lost library we see that sunny used to explore headspace during school, presumably before the incident, and daddy longlegs says “in the beginning, there only existed two... the dreamer and his room” and then “the dreamer grew weary of his room and created a door that led to many different worlds”, referring to white space and headspace, so white space existed first. so white space existed before the incident.

so then the white space reference from the truth album is maybe about the manifestation of omori, instead of the creation of white space. i think the outfit sunny’s wearing in the omori cut scene is also the same as from the day of the incident (the black tshirt & shorts). so presumably (before the incident), sunny used to explore headspace as sunny instead of as omori.

daddy longlegs then goes on to talk about black space, and how omori was created to let sunny “ascend to a blissful state of ignorance” and “forget himself” (this also prompts an interesting question of how sentient omori is — because he’s the protector (& knows enough to be willing to kill basil) but he’s also “ignorant of his own fabrication”, according to daddy longlegs, but i guess that’s another matter entirely!) black space was created in response to trauma, so that again supports the idea that omori was manifested after the incident.

so then white space. a place to survive but not to live. the black lightbulb is the repression of an idea, ie, the lightbulb was created after the incident. but sure, white space can exist without the lightbulb. my question then is, why did sunny need a place to survive before then? we could say that dissociation has always been his go-to reaction in stressful situations, and that’s why. but he was also in white space long enough to get bored of it, enough to conjure headspace.

we have a few vague clues that sunny & mari’s home life could have been bad, but nothing concrete. and personally, i’m of the opinion that his life being more or less ideal to begin with enhances the tragedy of the story (as well as him and basil having opposite tragedies, as i saw someone else point out — sunny’s being that he was already very much loved & cared for, so it’s worse when it’s taken away, basil’s that he never had that in the first place), but i guess that’s up to interpretation. other than home life issues then, just the stress of the violin? general developmental issues? depression? something else?

i’d be super curious to hear what you think (again, if you have the time)… thank you! :)

Hi there! Sorry about how long this took me, I've had a lot going on + I actually wrote a whole long response that took me like a week of on and off working, and then I accidentally shut off my computer and lost the whole thing :(

I want to start this off with a couple disclaimers: Omori intentionally keeps its timeline close to its chest (presumably to add to the game's feelings of unease and the mystery of it all) AND we see evidence throughout the game that during Omori's long development cycle, it saw multiple changes to its story that ultimately makes the game's timeline a little inconsistent in a way that doesn't really matter.

I think I don't really have to explain the first point to you, but it will be relevant when talking about Headspace, because the game doesn't even commit to Headspace being purely a dream, as there are plenty of indications throughout it that it could be something a bit more supernatural.

However, I do want to elaborate on my second point there, mostly because this is something that I've wanted to talk about for awhile, and what better time to bring it up than when we are talking about the timeline! So:

How Old is Hero Omori?

I swear this is an actually interesting question

It might seem silly to ask this, considering the game actually tells us how old he is in Headspace, but stick with me.

Based on this line, Hero (and presumably Mari) are 15 pre-canon, while the rest of the group turns 12 during the year of the album (except Kel, who would've turned 12 prior to Basil getting the album).

So let's take the time skip into account. When we first meet real world Aubrey, she says this:

After this point, the game tends to stick to the time skip being four years whenever it comes up. But this isn't technically true! Even accounting for the months after the incident that Sunny continued going outside for, the incident happened in October, while Sunny comes out again during the summer. Most likely, we're actually looking at around 3 and a half years, with Sunny coming back outside the summer that he would turn 16. Since we are presumably at the beginning of the summer, with Hero just now coming home from college, Sunny would actually be 15, at least during the main portion of the game, though once he's in the hospital, it appears some time has passed so that school has now started back up.

Why does this matter? Well, based on this timeline with Hero being 15 in the photo album, he should have turned 19 the January prior to the game's main events, and this is what most people see as canon. However, within the United States, most people, unless they graduate early or late, will leave High School the year they turn 18, meaning most people turn 19 during their first year at college (if they attend).

At first glance, this doesn't seem to be an issue, but we know for a fact that Hero has actually been away at college for two years, due to this interaction:

This is the second summer that Hero has returned from college! He should be 20! Now Hero is a bit of an overachiever, so it is possible that what is actually happening here is that he graduated early, but I doubt that due to what we know about how Hero reacted to Mari's death.

For that first year, even if Hero was technically going to school, he certainly wasn't excelling at it. By the time he gets to the state we see him in-game, he has maybe a year to a year and a half left of schooling. I'm really not sure that I can buy Hero graduating early, regardless of how well he does from that point on.

I also want to acknowledge that the game could simply take place ~4 1/2 years, rather than 3 1/2. There's no reason not to go with this, other than it would mean that the younger four are actually 17 during the game. You are free to believe this instead, but I am going to go into what I actually think is going here next.

We know that the characters got younger during development. We actually have an older version of the photo album, in which instead of saying that Sunny was turning 12, it says 13. Why did this happen?

Let's take a look at Aubrey's recollection of what happened following Mari's death:

For reference, this is part of what she says at the tree stump during One Day Left.

Her words here imply that she wasn't actually aware about how bad it was for Hero, and most of the fandom typically just leaves it at that.

But that's weird, right? Look at what she says. It seems like she did HAVE a reason for why Hero wasn't available, it was just incorrect. And what's more, this is definitely how Hero would've been after his year of very much not studying. There's no reason that Aubrey would believe that Hero reacted to Mari's death in this way unless it was true, especially since it is something that would later be true.

I also want to point out that Kel's talk in the cemetery in which he tells us how Hero reacted to Mari's death is entirely optional and disconnected from the actual main story cutscenes in the real world.

To bring this full circle, I also want to point out a mechanic that was added to the game VERY late in development:

You might see where I'm going with this.

Here's my theory. Originally, Hero would not have reacted to Mari's death with staying in bed for a year in a depressed state. Instead, he would've immediately become lost in his studies as a coping mechanism. However, when the team had the idea for the emotions chart, they likely realized that while happy and angry fit Kel and Aubrey's coping methods respectively quite well, Hero did not seem to fit sadness all that well at all.

In order to make Hero fit sadness, they change his story so that he stayed in a depressed state for a year, but they don't remove his original story of getting lost in his schoolwork. After all, they already had the writing and art assets finished and the game had already been in development for a long time. So instead of doing any major rewrites of the actual script, they simply add a single cutscene in the graveyard that doesn't seem to contradict anything that lets us know that this is how Hero reacted!

Then they had another problem. If Hero spent a year not caring about school, how would he have graduated on time? It would've been difficult even for an overachiever to do two years of schooling in one year. This is an easy fix as well! All you have to do is go through the very few instances of characters' ages being mentioned, and make everyone a year younger! It would've been a lot easier for Hero to catch up and excel if he had an additional year to do so after the incident with Kel! It also gives us another instance of a character getting overwhelmed and angry and pushing someone they care about, which we see multiple times! It works really well, and I like it a lot, but I haven't been able to unsee this change being made ever since the first time I thought of it. The minor line of dialogue about the hero sandwich that reveals Hero has been in college for two years would have been overlooked, since it doesn't mention his age, and likely would've been forgotten due to its unimportance. Aubrey's line, while wrong, can also still be explained away by her simply not being in the know about how Hero really reacted to Mari's death.

I'm not saying this is definitely what happened, but this theory does explain that one tiny little inconsistency that we see in the game. Could also be nothing though idk I'm not perfect

SO

The timeline of the creation of Headspace, White Space, and Black Space! The thing you actually asked about and care about!

It's a little difficult to actually place a lot of things here. Headspace is already so vague. We can use Daddy Longlegs' explanation as a general guide, but it's still difficult to figure out how it lines up with the between night cutscenes, as well as some of the other things.

What I can say is that Omocat has explained Sunny's dream worlds as a very real reaction to trauma that some people have. From this perspective, it would've always existed in some form.

In regards to the truth album line about sinking into the empty room, it's important to keep in mind that nothing there (unless I am super mistaken) implies that this is the first time that Sunny has been there, only that it is happening in that moment. In fact, I find the use of the term "sink" to be very interesting in this context, because very recently prior to the end of the photo album and the incident itself, Sunny had another very traumatic experience when he nearly drowned at the lake. This incident is also very important because many of the traumas that we see from Sunny in game come from this incident. He is still extremely scared of heights, spiders, and drowning by the time the game happens. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that White Space was initially created as a response to that, assuming that it didn't already exist for Sunny's entire life.

Next! Headspace, as I understand it, refers specifically to the dream world that Sunny created by merging a bunch of different dream worlds together in order to hide away Black Space, as told by Daddy Longlegs. What we see in the school day memory isn't Sunny exploring Headspace, rather it is just establishing that Sunny has always had a creative and wandering mind, which is why he was able to create Headspace as a coping method in the first place.

The "you've been living here for as long as you can remember" line can also mean many things! It can refer to Omori, as you said, or it could refer to Sunny always having White Space to some extent, OR (and I find this to be the most likely answer) that regardless of how long Sunny has actually had White Space, his repression of ALL his memories both the good and the bad mean that this is literally all he can remember!

All of this is to say: I don't really know. I'm really sorry about that, I've typed this up multiple times trying to come up with a satisfying timeline that I can actually point at evidence for. I believe that Sunny probably had access to White Space before the incident itself, but Headspace probably only became necessary to form out of his different dreamworlds and fantasies after the incident. He was always creative, so he always had creative dreams, but Headspace itself was almost assuredly a post-incident creation.

I apologize that this probably wasn't the answer you were looking for. There might be an answer in there somewhere, but I hope I've shown here how trying to come up with a definitive timeline for Omori can create issues.

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

MDZS – Prologue thoughts + analysis

"Great news, Wei Wuxian has died!"

(In was, in fact, not great news)

Jokes aside though, what a great way to start your novel – it immediately intrigues you, especially since you likely know WWX is the main character from the blurb at least*. It also introduces one of the main themes of the novel right off the bat, ie scapegoating and mob mentality – not a word is wasted. And I love how it clearly lays out all the things that will be explored/contextualised/proven false in later chapters. In order:

Jiang clan 'adopting' and teaching WWX (proven false/contextualised) – they did take him in and teach him, but it wasn't a full adoption, he wasn't of equal status. Though it is true that he'd be living on the streets otherwise. Part of the reason rumours are so hard to distrust is because there's a grain of truth in them. Also, it's cool how apart from his death, this is the first thing we hear, and the first flashback also takes place in this period!

WWX defecting (contextualised) and leading to the Jiang Clan's near-extermination (proven false i'd argue, at the very least heavily contextualised). It's interesting that they seem to asociate the fall of Lotus Pier, which happened a few years before, with WWX's ('evil') actions now, though it does make sense – but also I wonder how did people came to that conclusion? Did they just make associations themselves (WWX is evil –> WWX was taken in by the Jiangs –> Lotus Pier was destroyed a few years ago –> WWX was there –> WWX caused it)? Did JC mention it to people deliberately, since we know he blames WWX for it? Did people hear JC mentioning it more privately (expressing anger, he does not hold it in) and spread the rumour themselves?

WWX's 'demonic' (ghost) cultivation being the reason for him turning evil and his eventual downfall (proven false, there are some great metas on how guidao isn't actually corrupting. See: how WWX keeps using it in his second life and is completely unaffected, and how in his first life he was suffering from way more stress and a lot of trauma – especially SunShot era – which could easily have explained the seeming change in behaviour during that time. Same for Qiongqi Path and Nightless City)

WWX massacring 3000-or-5000 people at Nightless City (heavily contextualised, reasoned with a little during the Second Siege. I have more to say on this but we'll get to it in time).

And then various other things, eg emphasis on how necessary it is to cultivate the righteous path or else – despite the discovered irony of 'righteous' cultivators besieging and killing 50 innocent people, while the 'demonic' cultivator is the only one protecting them – along more information about WWX's death (most of which is confirmed by passing words/thoughts of WWX) and the destruction of the Yin Tiger Tally.

But the things listed above are said first, which is quite important. MDZS is very much a mystery story, both for WWX, LWJ and often the Juniors uncovering the clues about the missing body parts – but also for us readers, as we find and piece together the missing knowledge and context WWX's past, and the full story hidden behind it. And it's so cool how MXTX lays out what we'll explore (our leads, if you will) so clearly, within the first moments of the first chapter of the book.

(If you want to go there, just like how WWX found his first lead/motivation to investigate within the first few (relative) moments of being brought back to life, with the hand at Mo Manor, but I might be reaching a little too far... anyway parallels in MDZS narrative structure I love you so much)

Other details in this chapter:

I love how this comparison is used:

Having read the book, we know there was a very recent war, so this speed/comparison would be very familiar to everyone! A subtle way of setting up and showing the efforts of the Sunshot Campaign, though you wouldn't recognise it the first time round.

Admittedly we don't know how subjective/exaggerated this POV is, but there is evidence for the fact that hundreds of smaller clans participated (or at least wanted to participate before Nightless City..?), judging by the fact that three thousand cultivators gathered to plan to kill him. Surely that's not just the Great Sects. But on the topic of that, yup, all four sects were involved (I don't think it's disproven later, and all four sects did gather at Nightless City as well**), there's no one 'good one' that wasn't corrupted or complicit.

Even by just reading what the crowd says, it's cool how you can tell that at least some of what's being said is untrustworthy:***

Already, they're contradicting information and exaggerating rumours – also note that later on at the Guanyin Temple (Hatred 2), LXC, someone I trust more, says three thousand when talking about the number of cultivators at Nightless City (even not considering what WWX said during the Second Siege). That contradiction and exaggeration does make you doubt what they're saying a little already! As well as the fact you know there's more to the story due to, again, WWX being the main character.

This is heightened by everyone saying, later, that if WWX returned, 'the cultivation world, or even all of mortal land, would be faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair' – something immediately disproven in the beginning of the next chapter, immediately suggesting that a lot of these rumours are much more untrustworthy than they seem.

His death here is made even worse by the belief that (iirc) the state of your body after death affects the reincarnation of your soul...? That definitely contributes to the 'karma' the people mention in screenshot after.

This hurts already, but hurts even more after knowing WWX's fear of dogs due to them always biting him when searching for food...

--

*I wouldn't be surprised if this opening plays a big role in why why MDZS seems to have the biggest following of all MXTX's books. Openings are probably the most important part of the novel, since you start with no attachments that would make you keep reading, and MDZS absolutely nails it. I love it so much!

**Off-topic, but I do wonder how painful being at the meeting at Nightless City (before WWX showed up) was for LWJ...

***I'm curious about this extract, actually – the 7S translations has an extra line/distributes this differently? If anyone knows the original Chinese, I'd love to know which one is more accurate.

[jozor-johai]

Reread the AGOT Prologue last night, and I was so caught up this time in how the dynamics of that chapter are a microcosm of the class dynamics in Westeros.

Not such a long post, but putting it after the cut for ease.

Waymar Royce, of course, stands in for the Lords, with his wealth and name and undeserved authority, while one-named Gared and Will are the smallfolk.

In this chapter, with a speaking cast of 3, there's already this question of where does power lie? In this scene, the smallfolk outnumber the lords 2-to-1, and neither believe in Waymar, but ultimately each of them defers to the lord's authority (the ratio is much more extreme in Westeros at large, but this works for a 3-person dynamic). Will and Gared also trust each other, and trust each other's expertise, more than either of them think Waymar should be trusted in any capacity—he's not leader by merit (he has much less experience than either of them), he's not leader by popular appeal (they laugh at him in their cups), and he's not leader by age (younger than the both).

And we see already in this small moment the ways in which authority attempts to deal with usurpation—which we will see played out over and over again throughout the entirety of ASOIAF.

Gared challenges Waymar's authority on the basis of experience, which is a justified complaint. Faced with an inarguable position, Waymar responds with unnecessary cruelty: "you ought to dress more warmly, Gared." This is one way for the upper class to keep the smallfolk in line—to flaunt their wealth and advantage, and to push back visciously against challenges. This is the Tywin technique, one which we see done consistently throughout the series.

The significance of this being a mental confrontation cannot be overstated: when confronted with Varys' riddle, Tyrion later observes that the rule "All depends on the man with the sword." Here, Gared is the man with the sword—he's a man-at-arms, and the better swordsman. While "Will doubted it[Royce's sword] had ever been swung in anger," "Will would not have given an iron bob for the lordling's life if Gared pulled it[his own sword] from its scabbard." Gared could fully kill Royce here, if he dared. And so the challenge, for Waymar, is to make sure Gared never dares. Power lies where men believe it lies, so Waymar's job as authority figure is to demoralize Gared, so he does not outright challenge Waymar's authority. (This is the role of public humiliation—another 'Tywin tactic,' but which is also used broadly).

Perhaps Gared would dare to challenge Waymar's authority if he were not alone. When Varys follows Tyrion's thinking that the man holding the sword might have some real power, he questions: why do the men with swords obey kings at all, then? Tyrion posits: "Because these child kings and drunken oafs can call other strong men, with other swords." So perhaps the issue is unity, a majority feeling—one man cannot rebel, lest his own class turn against him, but perhaps many can. We see this as the series goes on in instances like with the Sparrows, who amass enough numbers that they can imprison the queen, or with the sellswords in Meereen, who might turn the tide of battle if they switch sides (to the side that they believe might win).

To gain this advantage, Gared and Will would have to be a united front. In the beginning of this chapter, Will was a neutral figure, he's not willing to actually challenge that authority, he didn't want to be involved in the confrontation, but knew "he known "they would drag him into the quarrel sooner or later." Later, though, after witnessing Gared's demoralization, Will nearly steps in himself—in defense of Gared, out of respect for Gared's experience, and in a moment of class solidarity, Will speaks up to defend Gared, and is cut off:

"If Gared said it was the cold …" Will began.

"Have you drawn any watches this past week, Will?"

Here, Waymar's goal, as ruling class of this interaction, is to prevent class solidarity within the smallfolk. If Waymar responded too rudely, or with too much aggression, this might bind Gared and Will together for certain, and Waymar might be usurped (this is the result of the repeated aggressions of Aerys II, resulting in his death, or the repeated aggressions of Tywin which spawned the aforementioned Sparrows).

So Waymar has to employ a different strategy: (still a bit snidely) Waymar plays the role of 'encouraging mentor,' invoking this idea that he deserves to rule by the merit of being inherently 'wiser' or a keeper of 'knowledge'. He suggests that Will figure out for himself, under Waymar's guidance, that the cold could not possibly have killed the wildlings. Led more gently by Waymar, Will seems to decide for himself that Waymar is correct. In short, Waymar is able to reposition Will to be on his side, not Gared's, by leveraging his initial assumed authority and the existing attitude of elite education, even as that makes Will go against his own first-hand experience.

This is another tactic that we see repeatedly used throughout ASOIAF (and the world)—the ruling class acting as though they are simply elevating the ("innocently wrong") subjugated class to a more aware and knowledgeable position. If we believe the Maester conspiracy, they are the most obvious example of this, but the fact that it is only the lords who have access to Maesters means this is implicitly true without even needing a conspiracy—the ruling class is already gatekeeping knowledge and education from the subjugated class. (As an aside: the Maester conspiracy, ironically, is only concerned with the possibility of an even higher authority secretly gatekeeping knowledge from the nobility—in other words, the fear that the Maesters are treating the Lords the way that the Lords treat the smallfolk).

So let's return to Varys' final proposed answers to his own riddle: "Some say knowledge is power. Some tell us that all power comes from the gods. Others say it derives from law." Waymar has employed the knowledge-as-power against Will, and we're also constantly up against the backdrop of law-as-power: The Night's Watch.

Waymar references "Mormont," someone who Waymar does not want to disappoint, and they all consider the agreed-upon terms of the Night's Watch. Even in this microcosmic scenario, they are part of a system, one where this authority figure is, seemingly, held to his own authority figure, and one where the "rules" of the interaction have been determined long before now. In the end, once Waymar decides, "the order had been given, and honor bound them to obey." They have all agreed to a set of laws, already, which keep them bound to Waymar's authority.

So, ultimately, it is in this moment that despite Gared and Will being fully correct in their fears, despite being more experienced, wiser, older, and in all ways better rangers than Waymar, authority itself held true, and Waymar marched them all on towards his own death.

[silent-sanctum]

Objection! Yet Another "In Defense"

Okay! My alarm bells went off and it has come to my attention that yet another user has posted a "Jotaro is a misogynist" allegation post. Since Yoongi ain't raise a weak bitch, I am here to give my own counterarguments to the post in more comprehensive detail.

This will be my "Should pineapple be on pizza or die" / "Is mint chocolate actually good or is it the spawn of Satan" type of debate.

I am going to die on this hill that while he is in fact a man of many, many flaws, misogyny is not one of them no matter how convinced some people think he is. I will live up to my bio and that's the truth.

But before I begin, I'm going to put up a couple disclaimers because if I know the Internet, people love jumping the gun almost immediately when encountering someone who has a different opinion than theirs.

Disclaimer #1: Whatever I state (or even what OP has said), is all within the realm of HEADCANON because we aren't Araki. We did not make the canon universe, so all my yapping will be assumptions based on the material presented to the audience. Disclaimer #2: I am in no way shape or form fighting OP, alright? These are just my rebuttals against the arguments she has mentioned. She's entitled to her own opinion. I'm entitled to mine. 'Tis but a food for thought of mine. Spicy edition. Disclaimer #3: I don't want anyone commenting/reblogging this saying "lmao don't you have anything better to do than to argue with people online?" Because I just finished a whole day's worth of examinations, for which I studied a whole week, and got good scores from it. I can do whatever the hell I want during my resting period, anonymous user. Even if it's making this huge ass post defending my hyperfix. Thanks.

With that out of the way, let's get on with the meat of it all.

"You people can't recognize misogyny if it isn't in your face "Women should die" kind of bullshit."

Oh I'm aware. Bold of you to assume that we don't know how deep and how silent misogyny can run in today's society. More so in Asia and the Middle East.

And it's slightly insulting to assume that because I want to defend a fictional character and that he isn't misogynistic popularized via memes, you say that "Oh! You don't know misogyny at all! It's annoying!"

You say that because I know in the West, misogyny is the more "in your face" and obnoxious type. But as an Asian woman, I very much know the levels of audacity men can harbor against women that aren't just limited to, as you quote, "Women should die" behavior.

Misogyny is similar to a spectrum. It can be as obvious and proud as the Andrew Tate's, the "Alpha" men, and the basement-dwelling incels. It can also be as quiet and condescending as a regular guy in your day-to-day. They won't preach toxic masculinity, but would instead infantilize, belittle, differentiate, or alienate women and see them as someone inferior to the male sex.

I can sense red flags. I'm hypervigilant about how men behave around women and whether they see them in a different, negative light. So I know what the hell this word means.

And I'm not saying OP is one (I genuinely don't), but women can be misogynists too. Ironic, I know but they exist. Some women are drawn to misogynistic men as well. Booktok is an example of that.

Phew. With that introduction out of the way, let me first make my little assumption on why this whole debacle started before I start breaking down each argument.

When you look at it from a bigger picture, he doesn't get to interact with many women in this series with an abundance of male characters. So it's easy to jump to conclusions about their stance on it when you decide to base a whole character on the beginning episodes.

I think the reason why some people are convinced that Jotaro is an "anti-woman" is because he yells at women... for the first few episodes. Let me see what else. *Flips note* Oh, that's primarily the reason. Okay.

What bad things had he done? Called Holly a bitch and yelled screaming girls to shut up. That's it. Any other things I left out was intentional because I will be discussing that separately.

I won't expand on the whole "but Part 3 happened because he loves his mother" shtick because it's in the first argument. But when you come to think of it, he doesn't really say "bitch" as much as people expected him to outside of Holly. He doesn't even say it unwarranted or like he wants to.

Onto the screaming flock of school girls. Before he tells them to shut up, here's what happened. They congregate, start calling for his attention, and one of them grabs his arm.

What does he do? Does he yank his arm off in disgust? Does he shove her even slightly? Does he tell her to "back off bitch" or "get the hell away from him?" No.

He simply looks at her and does nothing. Ignoring her so to speak. Because he doesn't like the attention of being seen as a piece of meat for them to ogle at. He only tells them to shut up when they start becoming obnoxiously loud.

"But he was very rude and pushed those two women on the plane!"

Ma'am/sir, they're on a plane about to crash unceremoniously into the ocean, and the flight attendants decide to prioritize fawning a minor over their own lives. In the process, they block his path to the cockpit. Who wouldn't get frustrated in a situation like that?

Onto the arguments:

I agree that there are misogynistic men who can still love their female family members but still be an "anti-woman" towards others. But I can cite examples on how he interacts with women who aren't family in contrast to how a misogynist would.

Case A: The School Nurse

And we have one of our first earlier examples from Episode 2. When we first meet her, he's sitting in the infirmary and she's there almost giving him a light lecture about getting into trouble. He wants his knee patched up and she's about to do that because that's her profession.

How does he behave around her? Does he show body language signs indicating he's undermining her skills as a nurse? Does he call her a nagging bitch for lecturing him? Does he dismiss her words?

No. He evades her hands from reaching his hat, and when she's about to snip his expensive pants he reasonably asks "what are you doing?" She explains her intention and he sighs, simply saying that he'll take them off himself.

Does he show resistance? No. He does what is told so his knee can be treated.

AND after Kakyoin reveals himself, he gets pissed at him for using the nurse as a puppet, saying his whole speech and ending it with "Especially if it's an innocent woman!"

I've seen some use this sentence as him being misogynistic because they perceive it as a sign of belittlement when in actuality, it's not.

You have to know that he lives in 80s Japan- Patriarchal Japan where women are most likely going to be treated less than men in general even up to today's day and age. (I doubt you've heard but there's currently active crimes against women in Korea. If shit can happen there today, it can happen in Japan too). Let's face it and I hate to say it but it's the truth: Women are part of the minority. That's a reason why gender equality rights are being fought for, and why feminists exist to begin with, as well as the creation of the MeToo movement.

Jotaro knows women are more prone to be taken advantage of in this country, more so during this period. And he hates that. He despises that. Hence why he responded with such words to Kakyoin with that much vitriol.

He acknowledges he's not a perfect guy, that he's a punk true and through, but he has enough dignity and moral values to see that when one portrays women as lesser than men and uses them for personal gain, it's vile and evil.

Case B: Anne

Miss little stowaway! Let's see his behavior around her. OP has mentioned her at the ending, being on the fence and all, so I'm here to shed some light.

Back in the boat when she's still posing as a boy, how does Jotaro see the situation: It's a child in the middle of trouble. He looks at it not through the lens of "I applaud this boy for fending himself", but more so through "People are already intervening so I'm gonna sit this one out."

She goes overboard and he jumps in to save her. And then he finds out Anne's a girl. Does he think differently of her? No. She's still a child who needs saving.

He becomes her passive big brother figure. He wants to assist her off the small boat, but she declines and sticks a tongue out, and he sighs. Saw someone's head get mutilated? He shields her eyes. Anne is getting inappropriate attention from an ape? He intervenes and sees the orangutan as a disgusting animal, both in a literal and figurative sense. Falling off a cliff? He safeguards her. Caught in a dead end? He helps her with a quick "good grief".

Case C. Tomoko

Another example! But let's switch it up a bit to Part 4 this time. A testament on how his personality was really just him being a teenager going through an identity phase, replacing that punk persona for professional stoicism.

When he visits her house to look for Josuke, he meets her. She sees him, thought he's Joseph, and immediately goes in for a hug, motorboating his chest with a string of "Love you's" spilling out in that pitchy voice.

Does he call her a bitch? Does he pull her away because she violated his boundaries? Does he make some belittling comment about her behavior in his mind?

No. Jotaro stands put, gets put off because she's all up on him rubbing her face on his chest, tells her frankly to look over him again and says he's not Joseph.

And then he asks if Josuke's at home. Tomoko's zoning out. And what does he do? He doesn't groan. He doesn't roll his eye at her blanking out. Instead, he notices she isn't responding so he repeats his question to her face with the same polite tone so he can snap her out of her thoughts.

And when he leaves, he says one more thing to her. It's easy for anyone to say something along the lines of "Toughen up, it'll get better" / "It'll pass" / "Hang in there". But what does he say instead? He offers condolences and mentions that if Joseph was less senile, he'd support Tomoko, knowing that she's been wanting to meet the old man again.

Yes. That's because he is mean to everyone. Equally. Hell, I think he calls men "bastards" more often than he calls women "bitches". In which part of the show did he show any sort of condescending remark that women were weaker? How often does he spout out "bitch" in the entirety of the show?

He protects them because, for one, his enemies have supernatural abilities that ordinary civilians can't see. Which one will make him more of an ass? Protecting them or turning a blind eye?

It's like saying that a man shouldn't help a woman struggling with her heavy luggage up the staircase because "Hey aren't we all equal? They should struggle as much as we do!" Which is such an asinine concept to adhere to.

It's not seeing them as weak. It's called having basic human courtesy. He's going to help because they're people who need help, not because they're women in need of saving.

How is that any different from him wanting to protect Koichi? From him wanting to protect Josuke?

"She's no mere woman. Jotaro stumbles upon a woman stronger than him and he couldn't comprehend it."

OR.

He knows something's wrong with the nurse so he makes that comment. "She's no mere woman" as in "She's behaving erratically than what a normal person should be behaving." Man or woman. She has a welcoming personality so of course he'd be thrown off guard when suddenly she's stabbing students in the eye and cheeks with unnatural strength.

And the way you worded this was as if you're saying Jotaro is allergic to strong women. When it wasn't the case at all. In part 3, he fights against strong women Stand users (Enyaba and Midler) just like he does with the male enemies. In part 6, he teams up with strong women Stand users (Jolyne and Hermes).

He even outright states and believes that Jolyne can make it through the chaos because he knows she's strong and capable. He's proud of her strength and abilities.

Again, in which part does he not comprehend that women can be strong? That it's so mind-boggling to the extent you had to include "fucking" to emphasize your point?

In fact, I think he'd respect and appreciate a woman who knows her self-worth and power. Sees a successful female colleague? *applauds in stoic.*

Again, I agree that age does not excuse anyone to be misogynistic. It can happen at any age. Because it's a mindset. It's rooted deep in the psyche. But I've already made my case about teenage Jotaro so I'm not gonna reiterate.

With the whole Kira deduction thing in Part 4.

Let me restate this- The time this part was set in is the late 90s. Setting? Japan. A patriarchal country where gender roles were more rigid and inflexible. During that time, I hate to break it to you, but the country was not that expressive nor progressive as compared to the West. It was common for women to be housewives doing the chores and tending to the kids, while men did the heavy labor out of the household.

So you cannot blame Jotaro for making that logical deduction. He was born in Japan, knew by then how his country works at 28 years old, and thus is able to make a deduction based on the patterns of how society was structured during that period.

Sure you could say some women worked too, but the majority of them would be the typical housewife. In 80s-90s Japan I say again.

"Traditional Japanese"

This, fellow readers, is what you call a "Preference". It can be harmless and not necessarily condescending. But even then, with the inclusion of the parenthesis, you could say that this was a choice based on the mindset of a teenager's train of thought.

Jotaro likes his quiet time -> learns from the world that apparently traditional Japanese women are usually the "quiet types" -> resulting in the aforementioned preference.

And just like any other preference, it can change with time as you grow older and wiser. As you can see, he dates and marries a foreign woman who's not "traditionally Japanese" and even had a kid with her.

It doesn't necessarily mean he wants a housewife who can cook and clean for him. At the age of 17, that's the least of his concerns. All he wants is for his partner to know when it's appropriate to be quiet and when it's appropriate to be excited. He prioritizes his peace. As simple as that.

I can see why people like to see him as part of the autism spectrum and I respect that.

And yes, I acknowledge that he's a huge asshole. No denying that. That's just how he is at that age.

And again, we don't see him say "bitch" that much anyways for it to be a verbal stim of sorts. I recall he says it twice or thrice. And that's it.

Personally, I'm not that sold into the headcanon (and this is coming from someone who probably has ADHD and has a sibling diagnosed with autism). Introverts can be callous. Some can look apathetic. Not every one of us will be shy and timid.

"He could've shoved her off."

And you know why he doesn't? Because as much as he tends to bark and yap about how annoying and doting his mother is, he loves Holly. He likes her hugs. He lets her give him goodbye kisses to the point it has become a pattern in his life. He likes her cooking. He's going to travel the whole world for his sick mother to get better.

And Holly knows that. A mother knows her child more than anyone else. She's unfazed by his words because she knows the good son she raised underneath that tough abrasive persona. Heck, even Suzy Q knows that too.

Also a cute little assumption. After they fight Midler and after Suzy talks to Jotaro, you can see his hand lingers on the phone. It's as if he's contemplating. I'd like to think that's a moment where he wanted to call Holly, to check up on his mother.

I agree that being gay doesn't excuse someone from being misogynistic. Like I said, it can happen to anyone of any gender or age.

Gay people can be misogynists. Point blank period.

Personally, he's a demisexual king in my eyes. But others are free to give him any orientation they see fit. Gay, trans, bisexual, aroace- You name it. The fictional world is your oyster! Go ham!

I believe that a fictional character's sexuality is a headcanon in on itself unless explicitly stated by the creator. Telling someone that character is straight? Headcanon. That character is gay? Headcanon. Claims a character to be non-binary? Headcanon.

"He's just a baby boy uwu uwu"

Okay OP with the "we're infantilizing him" allegations! That's new!

(That... was passive-aggressive of me. Apologies. I'm aware we call him "baby girl" often but with the way those two words were put into that sentence combined with the emojis gave off a different connotation.)

I don't know why but whenever we say that Jotaro isn't *insert one negative trait*, y'all are quick to say that we are proclaiming that:

"Oh my god~ He's not like that~ He's Saint Peter coming from the heavens pure as light."

Like what? No seriously... what??? I have never seen anyone treat him like he's the perfect human being.

Hell, I can even say that he's NEGLECTFUL. Yes! He's a neglectful father no matter how good his intentions were. He was an absent parent who technically neglected his child. There! I said it!

We KNOW he's an asshole. We KNOW he has a multitude of flaws that are not admirable. He's reclusive as fuck. He's brash and abrasive. He's seemingly distant when he talks to people. Socially awkward outside of work. He's impulsive when he wants to be.

I love character flaws. That's what makes a character so fascinating.

So please, if you have any strong opinions, keep them to yourself. Not everything has to be shared online. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

I can see a shit ton of flaws in this reserved, stoic mountain of a man. But I draw the line when it comes to some traits that seem not entirely fitting of his character.

The ending paragraph...

Me, an Asian woman constantly facing the audacity of men my age objectifying women and promoting toxic masculinity on a daily basis:

[circle-around-again]

The Wrath of Darth Maul by Ryder Windham. Notes & Quotes.

Prologue.

*This is something I have been thinking of doing for a while. I'm a weirdo who likes deep reading texts and mining them for meaning. I have been doing it for this text for some time. I thought I might share it, but more importantly, create a catalogue for myself of notes. I don't know how this will be received, if it will be at all.

This catalogue will present interesting quotes, running themes, headcanons, and an exploration of Maul's experiences. Feel free to browse or use at your leisure. Spoilers ahead.

[scene: spidermaul in the tunnels].

"The prong-nosed rat knew that the dark heap lying in the tunnel was a dead man." (Windham, 1).

This is the first quote of the text. First quotes often hold thematic weight, and frame the story that is to come. It is interesting that Maul is described as a "heap" -- an object, not a body, and that he is specifically described as "dead." This narration establishes that 1) he is worthless, and 2) he is doomed. Fitting for his character, I think. Obligatory world-building: he ate rats to survive, scavenged waterproof fabrics to sleep under, and was an ambush predator who played dead to lure in prey.

"The legs were unevenly jointed, cannibalized from the parts of ruined droids, each leg ending with a tapered point." (2).

Cannibalism mention :3. Interesting that what is cannibalised is a droid, a being in star wars that is not even considered alive. For Maul to cannibalise a droid, on some level, he must thematically be considered a droid. Obligatory world-building: Maul doesn't remember how he got there, how he got his legs, where he is or who he is. He lives as an animal, but with one thing added: "pure and total hatred" (2). Note: unlike The Clone Wars, Maul does not speak and rave. In this depiction, he is silent, as he was in The Phantom Menace.

"He knew that he wasn't a man anymore, that he hadn't been one for years. He was just a creature in a filthy tunnel. And then he remembered the object of his hatred. A man... the man who left me for dead." (3).

Gendered reading: Maul states here that he doesn't consider himself a man anymore. One reading is that, without the bodily aesthetics, obligations and power of conventional masculinity, Maul considers himself worthless (toxic masculinity). Perhaps, he has been drawn towards another gender expression. Maul notably, doesn't even consider himself to be "human." This is a very sad glimpse into Maul's sense of self-esteem. He has also internalised Sidious' vision of an absolute hierarchy of life. Obligatory world-building: Maul has a tantrum when he can't remember things, and destroys his surrounding environment. This does not satisfy him at all. It is interesting to note his coping mechanisms at his lowest point.

"It was then, while he felt his hatred burning within, that a spark ignited in his mind. And he saw a sea of fire..." (4).

A couple of thematic links that I would like to point out: "hatred" and "within" encapsulates Sith philosophy; the inverse of kindness throughout. What begins this journey through his memories is a "spark" - a common phrase I know, but also one intensely linked to Sidious and his primary element of force lightning. Sidious is a catalyst, and the secret at the centre of his being. The oxymoron of "sea" and "fire." This is his literal childhood home, of course. But, later in this novel, Maul's beloved memories of friendship will occur by a sea. I believe it intertwines the characters of both Maul and Kilindi. HC: the previous page ended with Maul remembering a Man to blame... yet this novel begins with the memories of his time in Mustafar under his master. It is of my belief that this unnamed man is Sidious, not Obi-Wan Kenobi.

[originalaccountname]

i loved your post about dazai's relationship with chuuya vs oda. regarding this section:

"But Chuuya also serves as Dazai's wake up call (cue Dead Apple soundtrack) and keeps him from slipping too far. Yes Chuuya punched Dazai square in the face, but it was because Dazai was seeing an ally's death as an opportunity for him instead of a death. And it worked! Because Dazai then got into action not 2 days later to start on ending the conflict that had already been ongoing for over 2 months!"

i was always under the impression that Dazai didn't really care about reaching executive status (pretty sure i read it in canon somewhere, just can't remember where, but correct me if i’m wrong), & my assumption was that, even in that interaction with Chuuya, he was already setting his plan into motion (planting the microscope reference, maybe trying to get Chuuya out of the way so Dazai could confront/get captured by Shibusawa? etc).

plus, Dazai brought up letting mori plan things, & i don’t think mori would let Dazai just do nothing to help end the feud. he gives pretty free reign as long as if benefits/doesn’t have negative effects on the PM. i read that punching situation as Dazai lying about not caring & letting everyone die, but i’d love if you could expand on your thoughts!!

ps: thank you so much for your bsd analyses & meta... i consider you one of the best sources for accurate, unbiased, factual, canon compliant literary analysis of bsd & i appreciate your insight & research so much :)

🥺 that is both flattering and a reminder for me to always fact check myself hdsgfsj

First, plugging the complete Dragon's Head prologue by Asagiri again for everyone to read.

This is interesting and not an angle I really thought to look at it from!

I don't think Mori was actively planning to end the feud because they say the PM didn't suffer many losses in Fifteen and the SB epilogue specifies they mostly kept away from the fighting:

According to the prologue's timeline, there are 9 days between Dazai meeting Oda in a slight panic after a close encounter with Shibusawa (day 61) and Chuuya punching him for his comment (day 70). It's two days later (day 72) that Dazai confronts Shibusawa and vanishes. Chuuya finds Dazai and unleashes Corruption 15 days later (day 87).

What I would have said happened is that Dazai did not consider the conflict his problem for the most part, though he was aware of the recent developments. Then, the newly released Shibusawa got the Colonel, and his attempt at a joke about Chuuya and his' ongoing rivalry while telling Chuuya about the Colonel landed him a punch in the face. Chuuya was actually mad at him (rare) and announced he'll be doing something about the conflict, even without Dazai. Two days later, Dazai has a whole operation ready to go.

In this scenario, Dazai just dropped the microscope joke for fun and later used it because Chuuya would be able to recall their last conversation and find the tracking device and understand what he had to do. Chuuya's punch was a wake up call to recenter his priorities, because Dazai does care about people, but grew too detached in this case and had to be brought back.

Now, the scenario you're suggesting I understand like this: Dazai passively keeps track of the events of the conflict to be ready just in case. Then, they release Shibusawa into the fray, things go from bad to worse, and the Colonel is a casualty. Dazai starts planning to stop this guy before he becomes an even bigger threat, and antagonizes Chuuya as part of said planning. He shows Chuuya the Colonel's death to put him up to pace, and the open seat comment was to purposefully make Chuuya mad and push him away.

This second option could also give a new meaning to Dazai anxiously going to Oda, when Oda inadvertently met Shibusawa days earlier, either because Dazai was already neck-deep in planning, or as one of the moments he realized everyone he knew could be the next victim:

It would also make Dazai a bit less random here:

Maybe the real scenario is somewhere between the two. Maybe Dazai really was trying to make Chuuya react like usual by making him realize one of them would probably be granted the title shortly, but it was too much too soon. Maybe telling Chuuya about the Colonel's death was also his way of warning him that everyone was at risk out there.

We don't know when the Colonel died, but it had been 9 days since his scare with Oda, so perhaps Oda being so close to this threat made him really conscious of the danger. Maybe the short jokes with the microscope really was Dazai setting the scene for when he would soon confront (and probably lose to) Shibusawa, as he had had enough time to plan his next move by then.

There's also Ango we need to plug somewhere in there, with his records of the deceased PM members during the conflict, and Dazai who was accompanying Oda on cleanup duty for said deceased members. He had seen the dead, he had seen someone record them as people (and decided to befriend him). Dazai said he joined the PM to witness death, and he was basically neck-deep in it, perhaps it made the idea of seeing his close ones in their position too real, especially once Shibusawa showed up.

I think there's plenty of room for interpretation in all this information actually, if you bother to try to make the pieces fit. Asagiri is always going on about how ~mysterious~ Dazai is when he's not that complicated, come on, but there are times like this where the nebulous character motivations make that ~mystery~ shine because there could easily be more than one answer, depending on the reader.

[galaxyzone]

Little Hope MBTI character analysis

A little while ago, I made this post where I typed all of the DPA characters as their possible MBTI types. I enjoyed thinking about it, so I thought I would go ahead and share my analysis for each of the characters!😊

Starting with the Little Hope characters because @delurkr expressed interest, so thank you!😊 Currently working on the MoM characters, so I will also post those as soon as I'm done❤

Here are my analysis posts for all the games!

All analysis under the cut bc it's kinda long lol

Andrew (INFJ): Andrew was one of the easiest DPA characters for me to type. INFJs are the "Advocate" or the "Counselor." Both INFJs and ENFJs typically fill the role of the group mediator, due to their combination of Introverted Intuition (Ni) and Extroverted Feeling (Fe). For INFJs, Ni is their primary cognitive function, which essentially relates to their desire to figure things out. They find themselves in their own head very often, trying to make sense of various concepts or ideas. We see this with Andrew, as he spends the majority of the game trying to figure out what's going on and how they're connected with their doubles from the past. Fe is INFJ's secondary cognitive function, which relates to the "mediator" or "counselor" aspect of their personality type. Andrew pleads for the other characters to stop their fighting when it's clear to him that the arguing is not helping them figure out what's going on. Finally, INFJs essentially have a "chameleon" personality, which enables them to get along with almost any type of personality. We also see this with Andrew, as he's the only character who gets along pretty well with every other character. At the same time, unfortunately, this can also make it hard for them to really know who they truly are, and it can also make it harder for other people to understand the INFJ as well as the INFJ understands others. I personally believe I am an INFJ myself and I related a lot to Andrew tbh, so I feel pretty good about this typing haha

Taylor (ENFP): ENFPs are the "Campaigner" or the "Champion." An ENFP's primary function is Extroverted Intuition, which Taylor certainly exhibits with her consistent desire to see if there's another path or another way to go about things, for example. Ne also has a tendency to want to focus on big picture stuff, rather than small details. Taylor recognizes that the town of Little Hope sucks and has some bad mojo going on, and she's more interested in simply getting out than she is in determining just why it sucks. I also believe her Ne is the reason she wanted to stay at the bus instead of going further into the town, because she had a feeling that the town was bad news. Speaking of feelings, an ENFP's secondary function is Introverted Feeling, which Taylor definitely exhibits when she opens up to Daniel about finally feeling like part of the group. She talks about what does and what doesn't feel right to her, which is a big indicator of Fi. Fi users have strong beliefs and base their morals off of what they feel is right or wrong, rather than basing them off of what other people feel is right or wrong. Taylor knows how she feels about the town and she is willing to fight on behalf of her feelings & beliefs, which we see her do when she argues with John about it. ENFPs are also very spirited, high-energy people, just like Taylor. They can be a little silly and they're not afraid to be themselves, as they often have their own ways of doing things. I feel pretty good about typing Taylor as a spirited ENFP!

Daniel (ESFP): I went back and forth on Daniel, but I feel good about typing him as ESFP. ESFPs are the "Entertainer" or the "Performer." An ESFP's primary function is Extroverted Sensing, which relates to seeking out experiences and simply wanting to do things, even if it's just for the sake of doing them. Upon Daniel & Taylor being returned to the group through the fog, Daniel immediately has to go back through the fog to see if it happens again. He doesn't stop to think about it, he just does it because he doesn't want to waste any time pondering what just happened. When you think about the scientific method, the step of hypothesizing comes before the actual experimentation; but not for Se users- they always skip right to the actual experiment so they can reach their conclusion faster. Daniel also doesn't hesitate to reach for the little girl hiding in the playground, and there are also a few other instances where he acts immediately. Similar to ENFPs, an ESFP's secondary function is also Introverted Feeling. When Taylor objects to Angela about the idea of Daniel being her boyfriend, Daniel immediately takes it personally, believing that Taylor doesn't want to think of him that way. He seeks reassurance from her, and it's interesting to see 2 secondary Fi users try to reassure each other throughout the game. Similar to Taylor, Daniel knows how he feels about the town and about what's happening to their doubles, and he is also willing to fight for his own beliefs.

Angela (ISTJ): ISTJs are the "Logistician" or the "Inspector." An ISTJ's primary function is Introverted Sensing, which relates to simply observing facts and taking things for what they are. Si is different from Se in that, while Se users just want to do things, Si users tend to watch things and make their judgments based off of what they observe. Angela acknowledging the fact that her demon only started pursuing her once her double was executed is an example of Si. She doesn't need to analyze why the demon chased her after her double was drowned, it's enough for her to understand that your double dies = a demon tries to kill you. ISTJs are very fact-oriented due to their Si. An ISTJ's secondary function is Extroverted Thinking, which typically lends itself well to administrative or leadership roles. This could be why Angela criticizes John's leadership and his inability to make decisions- because her Te would arguably make her a better leader, and it can sometimes frustrate Te users when they have to follow someone who doesn't lead with the same decisiveness. An ISTJ's primary Si mixed with their secondary Te can also cause them to make blunt observations about people, which is similar to how Angela outright refers to Daniel as Taylor's boyfriend upon observing that the 2 of them seem to like spending so much time together. All in all, Angela is a very practical ISTJ character who isn't afraid to say things like they are and she doesn't want to mess around.

John (ENTP): John was definitely one of the hardest DPA characters for me to type, as I'm still going back & forth on him tbh. He's definitely a T type, but I don't believe he's a J type, as xxTJs are typically more assertive & sure of their decisions, which we know is something John struggles with. I also believe he's an intuitive rather than a sensor, so that narrows it to xNTP. Here's where it gets tricky: choosing between INTP & ENTP isn't as simple as figuring out whether he's more introverted or extroverted. The question is whether his primary function is Extroverted Intuition or Introverted Thinking. I can definitely see him being an ENTP, as they are known for "playing Devil's Advocate," which John arguably does by accusing Mary of being the source of evil within Little Hope. ENTPs are the "Debater" or the "Visionary." ENTPs like to question almost anything and everything as a way to learn more about the world in which they live. They will never back down from an intellectual challenge, and they're also not afraid to question other people on their ideas or points of view. We can see John do this, as he's not afraid to disagree with the other characters when they give their opinion on what's going on. He challenges Taylor on her desire to wait at the bus, he challenges Andrew on his stance of trying to defend Mary, etc. His primary Ne mixes with his secondary Ti to think outside the box and work to discover other possibilities that make sense to him & what he believes to be true. He humors Taylor & Daniel about their claim that the fog led them back to the group, he proposes the idea to Andrew to burn the poppet they find in the museum in case it's the source of the evil, he tries to think of any possible ways that they can help their doubles from the past. I think I feel good saying he's an ENTP!

[blood-orange-juice]

To everyone joking that Narcissenkreuz story is shorter than the Aranara quests.

GUESS WHAT.

[yume-fanfare]

things i like thinking about: tsukasa definitely voted for tori in the stucopres election in the end. how did he feel about that

[friendofcars]

i read one chapter of bllb and immediately start mentally zooming around

[cornfieldsrambles]

Dorian Gray Weekly, Chapter 1

Okay.

I know I shouldn't be surprised.

I was informed, over and over and over, how un-heterosexual Mr Basil Hallward is.

But I'M SORRY

I was NOT IN ANY WAY PREPARED for THIS.

And this is just the first chapter. We haven't even MET Dorian yet.

I think I'm going to like this book.

[humornaut]

Chef Sunny’s Kitchen: Hobbies of an Unreliable Narrator

Hey all! Just wanted to do another little post that I’ve seen toyed with but never explored to it’s fullest potential. Spoilers for Omori ahead!

So Omori as a game is no stranger to the concept of unreliable narrators, but often, I see people using that term pretty liberally to explain away situations that don’t really make all that much sense (example, I’ve seen someone say that Sunny’s fridge isn’t actually empty, he’s just refusing to see the rest of the food because he feels he doesn’t deserve it). However, if you spend any amount of time examining the game, you will find that the ways in which Sunny (and Basil) are unreliable narrators are fairly consistent.

To spend a little bit of time on Basil, there are two main reasons that he is an unreliable narrator. Firstly, he is in a massive state of denial throughout the real world sections of the game, not that that is that big of a deal, since we already know the Truth by the time he gives his account of what happened the night of the recital. However, there is another big way that Basil is an unreliable narrator.

Basil’s photo album is one of the primary ways that the player, and by extension Sunny, is familiarized (or re-familiarized) with the past. But there are several ways that Basil’s photo album can be misleading. For instance, the photo album is from Basil’s perspective, so we don’t often get views of what other characters thought about certain events. In addition, things like Sunny and Kel sneaking out to go to Hobbeez or Sunny and Aubrey talking on the swing set aren’t going to be mentioned in the photo album, since Basil would not have been present. Beyond that, unhappy memories such as the Lake Incident won’t be included. Finally, Basil is often noted for enjoying the act of keeping secrets, which is something we see highlighted in nearly every memory during Memory Lane.

To give an example of where stuff like this comes up, we should start at the Rainy Day memory, or rather, the pictures that are associated with it.

(4/29): Just KEL being KEL again... We went to HOBBEEZ, but the shop owner told KEL to leave his jacket outside since KEL was getting all his comics wet. Sorry, SHOPKEEP.

From here, we know that after the Rainy Day memory ends, the four friends head over to Hobbeez to read comics, and then Kel had to leave his jacket outside. But what we don’t see, due to Basil not talking about it in the album, is that they actually split up afterwards, with Aubrey and Kel staying at Hobbeez, and Sunny and Basil going to the secret hangout spot and hanging out at the dock.

They don’t even have the umbrellas, showing that they are intentionally in the same outfits, since they couldn't just re-use the same sprites.

Likely, Sunny and Basil split off from the group to have some kind of private conversation away from Aubrey and Kel. It could’ve been related to Sunny’s crush on Aubrey, since this would’ve been the day that Basil figured it out. Sunny clearly never talked about his crush with Mari, since Mari is shown comparing Aubrey and Kel’s friendship to her own relationship with Hero, so perhaps Sunny was feeling a little frustrated at how close Aubrey and Kel were. He does canonically just walk ahead of the group after Basil calls out his crush, after all. It doesn’t really matter what specifically they talked about, because what does matter is that this is an event that Basil purposefully left out of the photo album, so we are completely left in the dark on what actually happened in this conversation.

But I want to get on to the main thing I wanted to talk about here.

Sunny

So Sunny is such an unreliable narrator that it is sometimes painful. There are two main reasons that Sunny is an unreliable narrator:

Sunny is repressing the Truth, so things like the existence of the closet are ignored, and within Headspace, how important Basil is to Sunny specifically is being repressed until later in the game. This causes quite a few oddities. The Headspace friends (and Hero in the real world) say that Omori has a good memory, but based on things we see throughout Headspace, it seems like a lot of the things that Sunny “remembers” are actually just things about Basil. (e.g. the Headspace photo album shows that Sunny has forgotten that Aubrey’s favorite fruit is watermelon. Meanwhile the least effective smoothie is the Banana smoothie, while the most effective non-dino smoothie is the Strawberry smoothie. Basil is shown in the real world photo album to dislike a banana popsicle, and outright says that he loves strawberries during the Birthday Memory. I may do another post expanding on this concept, because I think it is incorrect to take the statement about Sunny/Omori having a good memory at face value.)

Sunny is an imperfect human that hasn’t seen his friends in nearly four years. The way that his friends are portrayed in Headspace is in many ways, an ideal, and is not representative of how they act in either the current day, or back before the incident.

However, there is one last way that Sunny is an unreliable narrator, and that’s the simple fact that Sunny hates himself.

See, Sunny hates himself on a subconscious level throughout the game. Due to this, many of the things that Sunny does for others or himself were cast away, as they were just no longer important in the face of what he did. Even if he does remember that he did things for his friends growing up, they are never brought up because he no longer sees those things that he did as important. Within Sunny’s mind, the fact that he would listen to Basil talk about anything and everything is repressed until the player enters Blackspace, when Stranger uses that information to guilt Sunny for leaving the real Basil behind. The fact that he did this for Aubrey as well is something that is kept away from the player until he’s having a version of his friends remind him of their bonds shortly before entering a battle within his own mind to keep from losing the will to live in the battle against Omori.

Due to a mixture of all these reasons, Sunny’s relationships with each of his friends can often seem one-sided, especially when it comes to Basil, since so much more of him is being repressed than the others. You will often see the idea floated around that Basil’s liking of Sunny was one-sided, and that Sunny actually considered Kel his best friend, but this simply isn’t the case, it’s just that Basil kept a photo album and Sunny is actively trying to forget everything related to the Truth.

To illustrate what I’m talking about, I’d like to expand on a topic that I briefly mentioned in my previous post: Sunny has a small cooking hobby.

It wouldn’t be surprising for someone like Sunny to have an interest in cooking and preparing food. After all, two of the people that he looks up to the most are Mari and Hero, and both of their food preparation abilities are put on a pedestal within Headspace. Also within Headspace is an extremely wide range of food. A notable exclusion from the Snack list is steak, Sunny’s favorite food (according to his mom). Within the Foe Facts! journal, we can see that Sunny knows nutritional information for cilantro (this is attributed to Kel in the journal, but remember, this is Sunny’s mind, so Sunny would have to know it), and we can also see information about ginger and celery. According to the Headspace description for chocolate, we know that Sunny knows the difference between baking chocolate and regular chocolate. Sunny also has a concept of vegan food, and seems to be preoccupied with what can be considered vegan when it comes to several of the different Bunnies that appear within Orange Oasis.

Bread and toast are also given a large importance within Headspace, which likely stems from the summer before the photo album, when Hero and Mari were working at the bakery. He knows about different types of bread, has a technique called “Bread Slice” in Headspace, and is at least somewhat familiar with the process for making bread, as seen in the area where the Bread Twins are located.

In order to get any deeper into this analysis and talk more about why this information is somewhat hidden from the player, we need to get into just who it is Sunny cooks for.

The table that Basil and Sunny always sit at is one of the most adorable easily-missed details in the game, in my opinion, but I personally find that it connects to Sunny’s cooking interest quite well. After all, there would be no other reason for them to have this table in here if it was just for eating and homework and playing, as there is a full table in just the other room. The fact that this table is seen in a version of the house seemingly taken shortly before the incident is also relevant, because Mari and Hero would have been much more busy and likely wouldn’t be cooking or setting up picnics as much.

I’d like to put forward the idea that many of Sunny’s culinary escapades, outside of the group cooking situations that are mentioned by Hero, were shared specifically with Basil. This is because there are two primary food items that are associated with Sunny’s abilities.

Tofu

Tofu appears a whole lot in Headspace. It is loved by the Sprout Moles, and it is the cheapest food item, since you can get it for a single clam. The description for it calls it “Soft cardboard, basically.”

In the 2018 demo of the game, Basil’s grandmother directly states that tofu is Basil’s favorite food. Since this does not appear in the final game, I would like to point out that Basil’s fridge in Faraway is still the only fridge that has tofu in it, so it can still be assumed that this is intended to be the case.

During the Hikokomori route, there are two books that Sunny is shown to own that are relevant to this analysis. The first is one entitled “The Food Pyramid”, which is just another piece of evidence of Sunny’s cooking interest, and the second, “The Benefits of Tofu”. Sunny having this second book is very interesting, as he himself is shown to dislike tofu greatly. The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that Sunny specifically learned how to prepare tofu for Basil’s benefit.

And indeed, despite tofu healing the least amount of health and costing the least amount of clams, it is still the most clam efficient way of acquiring better snacks in Headspace, as 10 can be traded in Orange Oasis for a random other snack. I like to imagine that this references Sunny trading tofu with Basil for other foods, with the time commitment involved in the exchange referencing the fact that Sunny could’ve just learned how to make the other foods, but he is going out of his way to make something Basil likes, for his benefit.

Pictured: a normal amount of things about tofu for someone that doesn’t like tofu themselves to know

However, the other food that we know about Sunny’s proficiency with is far more interesting...

Strawberry Cake

So this is something that I’ve seen brought up a lot recently, the fact that Sunny knows step-by-step instructions on how to prepare a strawberry cake within Headspace implying he was involved with the preparation of Basil’s birthday cake in the real world, as it is the only time one is seen in the real world, but I think this idea deserves to be examined a little bit further.

First: Sunny knows how to make a strawberry cake, one way or the other.

Second: Sunny is not given credit for making Basil’s strawberry cake during the Birthday memory.

So, here’s what we know:

Hero is given credit for making the cake by Aubrey. However, Hero never actually responds to either Aubrey or Basil’s compliments during the memory.

Aubrey did not help with the cake, otherwise she wouldn’t have given credit to Hero specifically. In addition, we can assume Kel did not help, by virtue of him allowing Aubrey to not compliment him as well. Aubrey also likely does not believe that Mari was involved, because Aubrey would’ve complimented Mari if she knew.

Not everyone would’ve been at Basil’s house while the cake was being made, as this party was a surprise party being held at Basil’s house, so a few members of the group were likely on distraction duty.

Mari teases Sunny for being “camera shy” and tells him that he will get used to it soon enough. Indeed this does seem to be the case, as it doesn’t take long at all for Basil to take a picture of Sunny once he gets his camera back.

“Hehe...” indeed, Mari.

Finally, I would like to point out that just like the visions for the Rainy Day memory, there is a vision for this memory. In Faraway Park, you can find Hero and Kel playing, while wearing their outfits from the Birthday memory, implying that Hero and Kel were not spending their time before the party making a birthday cake.

There are two adorable conclusions that can be drawn then, from Sunny knowing how to make a strawberry cake. I’ll let you take your pick.

Sunny himself made Basil’s cake, either with instruction from Hero or on his own, then was too shy to take credit for it, or even appear on camera with it, with Hero and Mari covering for him and Hero staying silent as he is complimented by Aubrey and Basil. Aubrey is either also covering for Sunny, or is just mistakenly assuming that Hero made it. Sunny may have even told Basil that he made it later, because the photo album says “My friends surprised me with a strawberry cake”, rather than Hero.

Sunny, after seeing how happy the cake made Basil, decided to learn how to make a strawberry cake later.

Either way, Basil’s smile from that day is certainly something that stuck with Sunny, considering Basil’s birthday is covered in Memory Lane, and his own isn’t.

Sunny even has knowledge that Basil doesn’t really like sweets that much, as seen through what Mari says in Orange Oasis. This is something that Sunny only seemed to do for Basil. Sunny’s favorite food is steak, and his way of preparing that is to put it in the microwave. I would like to point out that most people would learn how to cook their own favorite foods first. You don’t have to see it this way, but you could read clear romantic undertones to this behavior. Sunny and Basil’s table in the kitchen is right next to the counter where Mari and Hero like to do their homework. Sunny also looks up to Hero a great deal, and if you interact with the stove in Sunny’s kitchen, he specifically makes a big deal about how Hero is always trying to cook for Mari but makes too much and the rest of the friends get the leftovers. Not to mention that the unknown ingredients involved with the Hero’s Kitchen area of Black Space 2 are linked to Basil in the game’s data, and the sprites are all tofu sprites.

To loop back around to the central point here, due to Basil’s love of keeping secrets, Sunny’s little hobby would not have been recorded within the photo album, because this was just for Basil. Sunny, in the modern day, doesn’t think about the fact that he did this for Basil, because to do that would be for Sunny to value what he brought forward to their friendship, and he can’t do that if he hates himself. And remembering how close he is to Basil at all would be to allow himself to feel guilty for leaving him alone to deal with the fallout of Mari’s death. Sunny and Basil are two unreliable little gremlins, so you need to look a little closer to see how their friendship went both ways, but I promise you, the game does give you a lot to work with if you just look for it.

[lesbiankordian]

"Dazai, Chuuya, Age Fifteen" - prologue analysis

We can see here how much Chuuya hates the PM and why. He calls them bastards and makes fun of. He obviously doesn't achieve his goal to kill every PM member (and he literally gives Dazai a will to live). These fragments also show how confident he is in his ability.

Even tho Chuuya hates the PM, he still acknowledges the other man's good quality (or is it in a sarcastic sense?).

Arahabaki is probably the only thing that makes Chuuya loose control of his ability, tho only for a moment.

bonus:

I like this part, because Chuuya knows the man isn't able to hear him, but says it anyways. He just has to make a cool entrance - he's a gang leader and a powerful ability user after all.

I want to do this with the rest of the light novel too, so expect more <3!