#narcissenkreuz

[blood-orange-juice]

I remember people having theories on Sandrone being a reincarnation of Guizhong (because of the engineering genius and how similar they look) and I personally participated in theorising that Sandrone is Mary-Ann or at least has her face.

And while I don't think there's reincarnation involved or that they are connected at all, don't you think it's fascinating how Guizhong and Sandrone played the same role for their respective cities?

Everything in Liyue breathes of Guizhong if you know where to look. The philosophy of the city, the glaze lilies, the engineering marvels. She's the Aerith of this game.

And then you get to Fontaine and slowly learn that all the meka technology was born of Mary-Ann's brother's attempt to bring her back. That Melusines only happened because of her attempt to oppose Rene. That there's a memorial garden dedicated to her. Fontaine wouldn't have been the same place without her.

For both of them you meet people who miss them dearly, even thousands or hundreds years after.

Another samsara, perhaps.

I just think about it a lot.

[blood-orange-juice]

adding the entire userbase to a big discord server named 'tumblr 2.0' to solve no problems whatsoever and invent several new ones

[plumeriacosmos]

the way the archon quests and the world quests in fontaine are all connected,,, it’s amazing holy fck

[trashcanwithsprinkles]

Just noticed that Jean and Barbara have crosses on their outfits and. I’m kinda confused? To my knowledge Barbatos. Doesn’t really have any crosses? Or crucifixion? The only thing I can think of is the narcissenkreuz thing but. That’s mostly just the name. Who spread Christianity to teyvat?? The thought is. Genuinely baffling to me.

idk i'm not an expert on mondstadt lore 😭 not even the nuns nor the cathedral has them so maybe it's a thing of those sisters? like maybe it's not something to do with christianity since y'know crosses exist outside of that obviously- but more of like a little token between them??? idk man (gn)

[blood-orange-juice]

once again i am thinking about the fact that jakob only uses rene's name on the eve of his return, and narzissenkreuz only goes by rene because that's how mary-ann recognises him, and narzissenkreuz never once mentions jakob by name... how at the start of the quests it's mary-ann whose absence is most keenly felt, but by the end it is alain who seems to have shaped the world the most, and yet we never get to see (excluding neuvillette's cutscene, of course.) is it guillotin's world in that alain was the one whose ideals best shaped it, or guillotin's world in that everything comes back to mary-ann at the end?

[blood-orange-juice]

I'm not a fan of bridging Genshin and Honkai, but the authors seem to be doing it anyway, so... blame Hoyo for this post.

tl;dr of Honkai lore

At the core of Honkai's cosmogony are two concepts. The Imaginary Tree — a tree of branching parallel universes, each twig of which is a timeline and each leaf a world. And The Sea of Quanta — a boundless place of entropy and chaos from which the Imaginary tree spawned.

Order and chaos, basically. They exist in constant conflict, the tree tries to consume the sea of quanta and the sea tries to flood and dissolve the tree.

When a world fails to persist it can "fall" from the tree into the sea of quanta, becoming an unstable fragmented version of itself called a bubble universe. A shadow of a proper world. Such a universe is eventually dissolved in the sea.

Bubbles universes can also be artificially created or spawned from someone's memories. Either way they are unstable. If I recall correctly, Genshin was confirmed to be a bubble universe in a Honkai 3rd easter egg.

Ether Anchors

There's a technology allowing to extend a bubble universe's lifespan, is called an Ether Anchor. An Ether Anchor holds together fragments of a bubble universe that follow a fixed set of laws.

It seems to be more of a place/space anomaly than an object (“a topological formation that exists between the dimensional manifolds”), if I understood Durandal's and Roland's lore correctly, but also can take the form of an object, if honkai wiki is to be believed.

(I think space anomalies are anchor points, not the anchor itself? the places where it sews fragments of reality together. I'm still figuring this part out)

Quotes from Durandal VN summary:

At the core of the Ether Anchor, space from different dimensions were cluttered together like vines

"There, he witnessed the endless possibilities of another ancient world. "

Tartaglia's character story 4

Readjusted her body composition with the Ether Anchor to turn herself into a weapon.

I think there was a guy in Genshin who constantly talks about turning himself into a weapon. I can't quite remember his name though...

 Synchronized themselves with the Ether Anchor, becoming the “Son of God” itself.

"The purpose of this line in the ritual scripture is to forsake the self and sink into the abyss, and in the abyss, to welcome rebirth as a holy infant."

Narcissenkreuz Ordo note

Another property of the Ether Anchor is that it allows bubble universes to interact with one another. 

Or maybe not exactly different bubble universes but rather fragments of the same bubble universe (or, since we are in a multiverse, these could be the same thing)?

"Unborn life, unfulfilled wishes, Tragic dreams at the edge of the universal darkness that could never come true."

Festering Desire description

Ok, this is getting too long and no one reads long posts. Maybe I'll continue in a separate post later. There are still the topics of the Abyss (and why it's not The Sea of Quanta), Descenders, whether the anchors need to be sustained in some way, Tsaritsa's goals, why does everyone who has seen the Abyss speaks of ultimate injustice, Alice and Hexenzirkel in general, what is Irminsul exactly, and, of course, Childe, why Childe's promise of a battle at the edge of the universe is more important than it might seem, what are world cycles, and why Childe's part of 4.2 story sucked so much (I now have a Lore Explanation. or maybe a copium overdose. probably both).

For now I'm calling it though. Whatever Khaenri'ahns messed up, it had to do something with Teyvat's Aether Anchor.

[naniyou]

You know, I had been thinking that the story of the Oceanids wanting to be human, Furina not being able to say anything about her identity and the incorporation of dancing (the importance of the mermaid dancing beautifully but her legs feeling as if she is dancing on knives), the Pneumaousia looking like "a sword being passed through you”, and dissolving into the seas.... reminded me a lot of the original Hans Christian Andersen "The Little Mermaid."

Between that, the Noah's Ark thing that Wriosthely has going, and the Alice in Wonderland type story of the Narcissenkreuz Ordo, Fontaine sure has a lot of fairy tales and mythology in it

So, Furina is the Little Mermaid. It's nice to get confirmation of that.

Now, I hope this quest explains how she gets her vision, and how come she can use both Pneuma and Ousia.

[blood-orange-juice]

Yeah, I was unsure if it was Alain as the big puppet or Mary-Ann as the small one. Just one of the Guillotin siblings.

(also what's funny, the whole basis of my theory, that is, Sandrone being involved in Tartaglia's trial somehow and knowing of his connection to the primordial sea, is now invalid since Neuv just handwaved it away.

so I sort of... did get to the right conclusion back in 4.0 but only by using the wrong assumptions.

you can find the theory here if you are still interested)

"The big guy is the real Sandrone" was in circulation since Winter's Night Lazzo, I think. Because, yeah, Commedia dell'arte trope.

What worries me is that Alain is described as an incredibly kind person disapproving of Rene and Jakob's research (he seems to be a reference to Alan Turing who was also incredibly kind), so I don't think it fits Sandrone's character. Although 400 years of grief can certainly change a person.

Meanwhile some of the things Sandrone does qualify as torture porn (there's a brief mention in the end of Steambird quests). It could have been Dottore, of course, but Dottore doesn't do it *that* stylishly (or rather he has a different style).

Also Scaramouche doesn't consider her a genius (while Alain was one and he had 400 years to practice). But then it could be just Scaramouche scaramouching.

"Cares about nothing else but her research" does fit Alain's descriptions by his friends.

For now I'm inclined to believe it's a runaway doll and Alain is long dead.

Alternative option: the big meka is Alain and he's still kind, while the doll is separate entity with at least a semblance of free will. He lets her play as she wants to because he can't say no to his little sister. Not even to a likeness of her.

Sandrone then is two people or however that works (I remember it was the theories everyone used to have about Lyney and Lynette after the Travail trailer).

LAST BIG NARZISSENKREUZ ORDO WORLD QUEST SPOILERS

Alain. hey. Hey. Alain. can we talk. can we talk for a sec.

"It can only be inferred that something was built."

I'm sure it's purely coincidental that the mysterious character that we only know has something to do with meka looks exactly like the at one point presumed dead sister of THE meka guy ever :)

[theunfinishedparadox]

screenshot wave #134

more Narcissenkreuz

[blood-orange-juice]

So.

Why I think Sandrone might be Mary-Ann Guillotin. Spoilers for Fontaine side quests.

*

Smoke and mirrors

As we have noticed in Liyue, Inazuma and Sumeru (and to an extent in Mondstadt) we do not normally *see* Harbingers until they appear for the final act, only the mechanisms they set in motion.

(Childe is an outlier and it's not like he's done anything productive yet)

Also most of Harbingers' lore so far has been dropped through things in the overworld (Signora's and Scaramouche's stories are in artifact sets, and Dottore's research notes are all over Sumeru). Somehow we have nothing on Arle's and Sandrone's backgrounds so far, which means we likely have something and we just don't know it yet.

Also Arlecchino is all over the plot, so I assume the important Harbinger in this chapter is Sandrone, everything else is an entertaining show to distract us. If she only appears in the final act, it would make sense if her exposition is done through lore tidbits scattered across the map.

*

Who Framed Roger Rabbit

Now another angle.

I'm almost sure that the contradictory verdict is caused by a certain someone's connection to the Primordial sea. (I'll eat my HoD artifact set if it's not. not like it's a good set but eh)

So whoever framed that certain someone needs to: 1. Know how the Oratrice works (either an engineering genius or they know an engineering genius) 2. Know about the Primordial sea and the Abyss (a gentle reminder that Vaucher knew about its properties through Jakob) 3. Have a motive

Idk, the combination of the first two *screams* Narcissenkreuz to me. I assume the motive is destabilizing Fontaine's energy system. It furthers Harbingers' goals and it would be too lucky a coincidence if it was someone else. So... A Narcissenkreuzer and a Harbinger. Noice.

We have Mary-Ann disappearing during that accident in Elynas without a trace. No body was found. Sus. We know Alain founded the Research Institute and worked on his own projects until death from old age. He could have transfered his consciousness into a robot. Also someone else could have.

(maybe the big robot is Alain then. as they say in Mondstadt, ehe)

(from Enigmatic Page XII, I can't guess who the author is)

*

Other characters' voicelines

Since Scaramouche's line about her says Sandrone is nowhere near an engineering genius and has produced a "copious amount of garbage", I assume it's not Alain. Mary-Ann it is then. She has her brother's old designs and theories but that's it.

Then there's Childe's voiceline about Sandrone:

When it was added I assumed it was about how clueless Childe can be about the consequences of his actions, but also what if he really didn't do anything (poor boy. everyone is so quick to suspect the worst about him).

We know that Mary-Ann and Alain had a big falling out with Rene and Jakob because of the Abyss research and what they did to Carter. If Sandrone is in fact Mary-Ann, it's possible that whatever Childe is just reminds her of Jakob. Or of Carter. Sorry Childe, your existence is just a trigger for the poor traumatised girl.

*

Summarising all that: guys, gals, fellow Romans and other forms of life, it's Sandrone. Everything in Fontaine is about Sandrone.

*

Things this theory doesn't account for unless you squint really hard.

- They don't look much alike but then a lot of years have passed and we have Herta from HSR and the way her appearance shifts slightly with each new puppet.

However, they also don't look that different.

- Why did Lyney need to investigate the Oratrice? If at least one Harbinger knows how it functions then what is left there to investigate? Maybe he was trying to tamper with it, of course. Or maybe they know the Gnosis is in there.

But then the Harbingers aren't exactly known for good communication between coworkers.

- If Mary-Ann is alive, why did she leave her brother behind? Why didn't she go back for Seymour?

I have no good answer for this, so this is likely proof that Sandrone is not Mary-Ann then.

(maybe she doesn't know Seymour is alive and he will recognize her sometime later in the story, of course)

- Who was the familiar voice Lyney heard near the Oratrice? It's not familiar enough to recognise but someone known to him. I doubt he knows Sandrone subordinates or met Sandrone herself. Or maybe he's lying and it's someone he recognises and wants to protect. Or maybe, as Cricket says in their post, that was a distraction too.

- Also there's Rene who happily dissolved into collective consciousness and no one heard of him after that. He could know any kind of things (including how the Oratrice works and what's happening with the primordial seawater) and it's a stretch of course, but any of the Harbingers (Arle included) could be working with him. Anyway, where's Rene?

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[blood-orange-juice]

Basically, the plot of Fontaine

[blood-orange-juice]

I find it fascinating how in Narcissenkreuz quests Jakob doesn't care who is the dragon and who is the knight in a particular iteration of the story. It only matters that there is one of each.

This somehow rhymes with Childe's Liyue and Fontaine arcs for me. How him being a hero this time doesn't necessarily mean he got any character development. It's just that in his story (one of his stories, anyway) there's always a city, a sea monster, and a flood and this time the coin landed on him saving the place and not drowning it.

[blood-orange-juice]

Thinking of that Narcissenkreuz note leak again. I think the parallel with a certain loot drop is pretty obvious.

"Lies beneath the great sea" is, itself, an interesting phrase. It comes from ancient Sumeru texts, and should be read as "Narayan," which also means "primordial human." This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world.

(also Narayan is one of Vishnu's names in the real world mythology, so I assume "primordial human" is in fact The Primordial One from Enkanomiyan records)

From the "Tusk of Monoceros Caeli" description:

"The image of a whale cruising across the celestial heights represents a solipsism that seeks to crush and devour all in its path."

I think we know now what his constellation symbolises. Not just the whale as an entity, also the idea of attaining a will that is stronger than anything else.

Conquering the world probably also refers to this. He doesn't need to physically conquer it, only to transcend its laws.

[blood-orange-juice]

On the primordial sea and dreams.

"So, one one side, you've got the abyss, with the 'truth' and the 'real universe'. On the other side you've got the light realm, with the power of dreams."

Something something childhood dreams being precious (Childe's quest, Aranara questline, some of the things Caterpillar says. I think Yoimiya's second quest too? I still need to play it).

Narcissenkreuzers. Fischl.

[blood-orange-juice]

There's something to be said about how we never find Mary-Ann, only other people's dreams of her. Fragments.

Both Rene and Ann muse that maybe Mary-Ann never existed, and in a sense it's true. There obviously was a girl once, but that girl is not what any of them are searching for, not really.

[blood-orange-juice]

4.1 Narcissenkreuz quest epilogue, Caterpillar dropping lore bombs left and right. Incoherent shouting as usual.

ASDFGHGFDSDFGHGFDFHGFDFGHGFDFG

WHAT

Cater, are you okay?

lol

no warm feelings towards the creator god

ok, this is why stories are important and why Irminsul is important. they create pie crusts.

I want to save this for later

*nods* Gnosticism strikes again

And again.

Reminds of Jakob saying something "we seek true equality. the liberation of will". Whatever tf that means.

Alain and Rene? Jakob?

Mhm. I wonder what moth this caterpillar will turn into.

Ok, so is it safe to assume that Caterpillar is in fact Carter? Human to meatblob to hilichurl.

I assume that Lyris is the Director.

Sweet. And it moves forward as we progress quests. Very sweet.

I wonder how is it connected with the fact that time flows differently in the Abyss.

Ok, Narcissenkreuz is Rene then.

Cri

ASDFGH

(forbidden knowledge as something alien to the nature of the world, khaenrian curse and all that)

roles in fairytales again

yup, we are restarting the apocalypse. that's us. gotta finish what other people started.

hmm