#PRONUNCIATION

[incognitopolls]

We ask your questions anonymously so you don’t have to! Submissions are open on the 1st and 15th of the month.

[neosatsuma]

Let's talk phonics!

Every English vowel can make two basic sounds: what's called a short sound, and a long sound. Take the letter E, for example. A short E can be found in the words met, bet, and set. A long E can be found in the words meet, seat, and treat. (You might notice the two vowels in a row in these words; double vowels in English almost always make the vowel sound long!)

In standard American English, "coffee" is pronounced with a short O sound, such as in the words dog, log, and cough. The IPA symbol for this vowel sound is ɒ. An easy way to spell this sound without using IPA is "ah" -- as in when the doctor asks you to stick out your tongue and "say 'aahh!'"

This is not to be confused with the short A sound, as in the words apple, cat, and axe. The IPA symbol for this vowel sound is æ. An easy way to spell this sound without using IPA is simply "a" (with no "h" after it).

Accents will slightly (or largely) alter our vowel sounds and how we might think to spell them; "coffee" sounds different with a British accent than an American one. But now that we know how to talk about vowel sounds, let's rephrase:

Does "ko-fi" sound identical to "coffee" (typically, for Americans: a short O followed by a long E)?

Or does it rhyme with lo-fi (typically, for Americans: a long O followed by a long I)?

Or does it sound like something else?

[latinare]

How do we know/guess how Latin was pronounced?

I can't find the post where I talked about this before, but basically there are two ways.

1) Because Latin transitioned from a living language (in the Roman Empire) to the language of scholars and clerics (in the Middle Ages) without a gap, the pronunciation was passed down from teacher to student. It almost definitely shifted a bit over time though, due to human error and the lack of recording devices. This handed-down version is called Ecclesiastical Pronunciation.

2) In the early 20th century (iirc) scholars attempted to compensate for shifting pronunciation by reconstructing how Latin might have been pronounced in Ancient Rome. The version they came up with is called Classical Pronunciation.

There are valid reasons for choosing either pronunciation, and you'll meet latinists hotly in favour of each. 😜

[foldingfittedsheets]

I, like I suspect many of the tumblr populace, ran into the issue in my youth of reading a lot of words I never heard spoken. My vocabulary has always been above average but my implementation is often flawed.

Like the day I told my dad I was the epitome of something and he laughed in my face. It wasn’t my fault that I didn’t correctly intuit the emphasis. (Mine was Ep-i-TOME vs Ep-i-to-ME).

My dad didn’t apologize for his rudeness but after my initial disgruntlement I just learned to roll with it. I’d get corrected and laugh it off. Some words were more frustrating though because it necessitated having to rework the word in my brain every time I read it. Like a few years ago when I learned I’d had “seneschal” wrong for decades. (I can’t explain why I thought it was sen-shull and not sen-es-shawl)

I learned that I had harbinger wrong during a Transformers movie without needing to embarrass myself. Thanks, Shia Lebouf. (Har-bing-er (wrong) made way more sense than har-binge-er (right) but no one asked me)

At this point in my life though I’ve managed to work out most of the kinks. I don’t often get corrected anymore.

But there’s one other snag that crops up between me and my beloved. I’ll confidently say a word and they’ll go, “That’s not how that’s pronounced.”

“Yes it is,” I’ll say, very firmly. Because in these cases I’ll generally have heard with my ears and repeated a word verbatim. I’ll know I heard it, so it can’t be wrong.

And pretty much every time I’ll be saying the British pronunciation instead of the American one. I’ve consumed enough British media that often it’s the only time I heard certain words said and I never realized American English handles it differently.

In some cases I’ll switch to the accepted American one. But they can pry machismo out of my cold dead hands, the American version is so stupid I can’t even handle it. I now recognize we stole the Spanish word but we made it worse.

[makewavesandwar]

Reblog to escape containment, just curious here!!

[gg-ladybug]

Unsolicited Miraculous Ladybug Headcanon: Adrien Agreste doesn’t know how to properly pronounce his own name. Sure, he SETTLES with one, but on a theoretical level, he has no idea with what intention he was named with.

Mind you, it’s not even because of anything nefarious— he just had two very different nationalities for parents. The French and British pronunciations were used interchangeably, because Emilie and Gabriel often argued on a daily basis about how Adrien is ‘supposed’ to be said. (Have you ever seen an Englishman and a Frenchman argue about culture? It’s thermonuclear.)

Ah-dree-uhn vs Ay-dree-uhn is a battle that has been waged within the Agreste household for years

(Based on a very real conversation I had with a English-French person named Adrien on my trip to France)

[oediex]

I love learning new alphabets and I've been thinking about how my name would be written in the two languages I'm learning that don't use a Latin alphabet.

I think in Korean it would be:

우디 or 욷이 (I don't really know if there is a difference in pronunciation between these two)

And I think in Arabic it would be:

ودي

If you know either of these languages, I would love to know if I've guessed right? The pronunciation of my name rhymes with the English "goodie".

[wronghands1]

[incognitopolls]

We ask your questions so you don’t have to! Submit your questions to have them posted anonymously as polls.

[janmisali]

one of the funniest things I see people say about "standard english" btw is californians who are like "yeah basically all american english speakers speak the same way so it makes sense to call that 'standard american english'" because you know they only perceive it that way because californian english has like every single vowel merger simultaneously so they can't tell the difference between other american english varieties. they're fish who don't know they're wet

[dduane]

Hi DD! I am rereading the Middle Kingdoms books and I was wondering if there’s a pronunciation guide for the characters’ names kicking around anywhere. Especially for Segnbora’s name and Eftgan’s nickname ���� thanks in advance, and thank you also for the books. If there was ever a time that those of us living in reality needed fix it fic for the world….. regardless, they’re a comfort.

First of all: you're very welcome. I have to admit that at this particular point in time, there's something to be said for being able to take refuge in a universe where, when the politically or economically powerful misbehave, God is extremely likely to show up on their doorsteps—in one guise or another—to forcefully, and when necessary fatally, kick their butts. (I'm polishing a scene of that kind right now and it is so fecking satisfying.)

And for our joint amusement: here's an image of Segnbora and Queen Eftgan in that fabled Darthis dive bar the Stuck Pig, just after the events in Tales of the Five: The Landlady (and after Eftgan had had time to change out of the clothes she'd earlier been wearing for yardwork).

Meanwhile, about pronunciations in the Middle Kingdoms books: sure, no problem. A little background:

I've mentioned here and there that the groundwork for the series grew out of a period in the late 60s/early 70s when I'd pivoted toward writing Tolkien fanfic (from Trek). One aspect of the LOTR works that particularly stuck with me was the whole "Author Is Merely Translating The Red Book Of Westmarch" thing, with Tolkien claiming (in his appended materials) to be translating character names from the Westron and substituting sympathetic alternatives from Old (and Middle) English.

So early on in my ficcing process—which rapidly turned into a worldbuilding hotbed for the Middle Kingdoms universe as a whole—I scraped together enough cash to send to Blackwell's of Oxford for a copy of J. R. Clark Hall's A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary. (Which you can actually now download as an .epub from Project Gutenberg, such are the wonders of the age we live in.) I promptly started mining the book for character names, and as a result Old English-based or -sounding names are scattered all through the series. Sometimes the name signals something about what's going on with the character: but not inevitably.

...Inserting a cut here, as this goes on a bit. Caution: contains inflected vowels, idiosyncratic pronunciations, snarky nicknames, mice, and the secret behind why—when he's not helping save the world—Herewiss usually seems to be in the bathtub.

...Anyway. As far as pronunciations go, probably the simplest hint is to treat these names—and other Old English-derived words in the text— as if they were indeed sort of English... and not to get unduly worried about trying to approximate the proper OE pronunciations. (Because I sure don't.) So that means "Herewiss" is pronounced with the emphasis on the first syllable, and the "Here-" pronounced exactly like Eng. "here"; "Freelorn", the same way—just "free" and "lorn" run together. His name, like various others in the series, is a construction, and doesn't appear in Hall's. Its structure harks back to etymologies like the one involved in the now pretty-much antiquated word lorn, and its use in his name is meant to suggest someone who—when he tries to live a carefree unencumbered life—screws up repeatedly until he realizes he just can’t do that; because, like it or not, he’s destined for different things. ...Herewiss's name, though, is an alteration of an OE word that does appear in Hall's, herewisa: "wise in [the ways of] war", a captain or general. The word often implies a strategist or tactician, which is a good fit for him.

The pronounce-it-like-sort-of-English approach works for both Segnbora and Eftgan. The first part of Segnbora's name comes from the same root as the Eng. "sign", and Segnbora's "g" is also silent: so, senn-BOH-ra, to rhyme with "when MORE uh." It's derived directly from the OE segnbora, "a standard-bearer": which, as the series's plot proceeds, is a name she earns. Eftgan is just EFT-gan, rhyming with "WEFT-ten". Her name, unlike Segnbora's, doesn't appear in Hall's, but those of various of her family and relatives do, featuring the "eft-" prefix (OE "again")* that suggests repetition; or sometimes just "ef-". (Darthene royal names during the main series's century tend to start with "E" or “B”, as Arlene ones at the moment start with "F".)

The nickname situation (or "calling-name" as it's described in both the Arlene and Darthene languages) is slightly more involved. People coming up with nicknames for friends or family may chop off a congenial segment of a name and use that (as "Lorn" for Freelorn). Or they may verb-ize or adjectivize part of a name, so that the nickname sometimes acts as a pointer to something going on with that person—perhaps a character trait. Eftgan does this with Segnbora, calling her "'Berend" (as the others in the found family eventually start doing as well). This very purposeful twist of a possessive form of her name (Segnbéreind) into a pun on Dar. (e)h'bereindh, "hurried, speeding", implies a tendency to rush into things or to take sudden action that may look precipitate to the casual viewer.

Tegánë (teh-GAAH-nay), Segnbora's nickname for her onetime lover and current wife, is something similar. It first breaks the Queen's name in an archaic and atypical way (and one that would, for a fellow lore-student of the Silent Precincts, evoke some usages in previous centuries' verse forms). Then the extraneous, inflected vowels hooked onto it turn the nickname into a teasing near-opposite of Segnbora's own, a cognate to Dar. tegáneit: "methodical, calm, thorough"—with the affectionate implication that maybe the person it's applied to could occasionally speed things the Dark up a little. The two nicknames together could be taken by Darthene speakers (and there are a couple more of those in the family) as a microcosm of Segnbora's and Eftgan's relationship.

...And then there are the nicknames that have no damn thing whatsoever to do with the "right-name" of the person associated with them: like "Dusty" for Herewiss. In the dialect of Darthene commonly spoken in the Brightwood principality, the actual nickname "translated" here is Dar. Eárret(h), "[habitually] dirtied, besmirched": a word often used in frustrated affection for the kind of person who all through their childhood will inevitably find a mud puddle to jump into mere seconds after you’ve managed to wrestle clean clothes onto them. For someone who in adulthood canonically prefers to dress way down, in traditional/vernacular Brightwood leathers, for city life—the better to bamboozle clueless courtiers into dismissing him as an unsophisticated hick—but who's also been revealed to enjoy being a bit of a clothes-horse when he has an excuse, the conjoined fondness and irony underlying Herewiss's family nickname make it choice. Yet (as the best nicknames are) it's still apropos. This is a man who, whether digging in the garden or taking on a difficult piece of political work, is not afraid to get right down into it and get his hands dirty… and who won't waste time washing up until matters are fully sorted out.

...Anyway: hope this has helped a bit! The only other piece of advice: when you run into dipthongs (Héalhra, Éarn, Béorgan, etc etc), you can split them if you like (HAY-ul-hra) or run them together (YARN): exactly as you please. No one in this universe is going to care. And in the other one—bearing in mind the Realms-wide mandate for showing proper hospitality to strangers—on hearing how you sound they'll probably just buy you a drink and ask you for the news from foreign parts. (As unexpectedly happened to me, one time, here. Hit the "backstory" tab for the details.). :)

*Burns’s poem "To A Mouse" invokes this word, dialect-changed to old Scots: "...gang aft agley."

[first-witch]

I'm just curious, because I have one way to pronounce it, and some other people were disagreeing with me, so what do you all think?

Reblog for higher sample size

[fuckyeahgoodomens]

(bluesky :))

[pollsgalore]

*Imagine you're in conversation with a friend, and you eventually say to them "I have to go to the store." How do you pronounce the "to"?