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naomi-the-red · 4 months ago

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I have a problem with how people represent Lightweavers and the “strangeness” of their oaths. Lightweavers’ oaths are actually no different functionally than anyone else’s, I just don’t think people understand the point of the oaths as a general.

I’m glad the Say the Words videos exist because I feel they get at this, especially in regards to the Lightweavers, but the whole point of the oaths is to protect people against the worst of that persons nature. What those oaths will shape like and be in phrasing, depends on the order and history of the radiant speaking them, but they all do the same thing—hold them accountable.

Windrunners by their nature can be self-righteous as hell. They have to be reminded that they don’t get to pick and choose who deserves their protection. They protect so long as it is right.

Skybreakers are all about the law and justice, they get reigned in by holding the law as a foundation but that they need to remember that law doesn’t always equal justice; it’s just the best baseline Skybreakers have to start from. That whole “become the law” business of the fifth ideal sounds scary, but it’s their fifth ideal, they aren’t getting there willy nilly. By that point they should well understand why the law exists, and they need to be able to rise above it when the law itself is unjust.

So what about Lightweavers? Why are their oaths so superficially different? Because a Lightweavers nature is to lie to themselves and everyone around them. Both sides of their powers can literally meld illusion and reality. Delusional thinking is an inevitability with that power set, let alone those inclined to it. Lightweavers need to be honest with themselves because if they can’t, they will lose themself to their unrealities.

Why did I say ‘unrealities’ and not lies? Because this is another level people do not respect Lightweavers. They are not liars, they are mythmakers. It is not necessarily about deception but telling truth through lies. They are so close to Truthwatchers for a reason, but where the Truthwatchers find the truth in fact, Lightweavers find the truth in fiction. It’s not a lie, it’s an unreality.

I’ll let PL Travers, author of Mary Poppins, explain through a paraphrasing of her article ‘The World of the Hero’:

“The word myth, for example, is largely accepted and used as something synonymous with lie. 'It's a myth, we say, meaning something that is not to be believed, a tarradiddle, a tall story, an impossibility. Even the Concise Oxford Dictionary describes it as a fictitious idea. I would rather have said 'unverifiable… for whether we know it or not, we all—like the Hero—live in myth.

…We go to the myths not so much for what they mean as for our own meaning. Who am I? Why am I here? How can I live in accordance with reality?

Now, this problem of meaning can literally overwhelm us.

…The myths never have a single meaning, once and for all and finished. They have something greater; they have meaning itself. If you hang a crystal sphere in the window it will give off light from all parts of itself, That is how the myths are; they have meaning for me, for you, and for everyone else. A true symbol has always this multisidedness. It has something to say to all who approach it.

…Take as an instance the story of Galileo.

Galileo is not a myth; he is in all the history books where you will read the undoubted fact that at a time when it was believed that the sun moved round the earth, Galileo dared to assert that the very opposite was true, that the earth moved round the sun. Under pressure, however, and on pain of death, he was forced to deny his truth. Thus he was able to save his life; but as he turned away from recanting he muttered firmly into his beard: 'Eppur si muove'

- Nevertheless, it moves. The story is known to everyone. Galileo is famous for the 'Eppur si muove'; but the recantation of his recantation has nowhere been recorded. How could it have been?

The only people near enough to hear it were his inquisitors, and had they heard it, his fat would have been in the fire. He never said 'Eppur si muove' - except, of course, in his accurate heart.

But in its unconscious shaping of the hero, the folk required that it be said, the story required that it be said; the truth had somehow to be told that Galileo was not a liar. So, mythologically, Galileo was required to say it. It is a truth but it is not a fact.”

It is a truth, but it is not a fact.

That is the realm of the Lightweavers.

#lightweaver #the stormlight archive #stormlight archive #skybreaker #cosmere #brandon sanderson

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kingjasnah · 3 months ago

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but yeah overall chs 7-9 my main takeaway was 1) cool lightweaver power up it's nice to see kaladin level maneuvering with other radiant orders. specifically shallan. 'be drehy' was crazy 2) the mental picture of the horse girl chucking swords from his chest at attackers as they passed was. well im not gonna think about that just yet 3) am i like actually crazy or has the writing style shifted. why does this read like the ssps you know it's not like stormlight had a very formal style before but these chapters have an almost modern edge to them. am i crazy.

#like the writing was always like. funny blunt at times but in shallan's voice it felt unnaturally modern #oh also nightblood was there hiii nightblood #sa5 #sa5 spoilers #kowt spoilers #wind and truth

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nevertheless-moving · 9 months ago

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stormlight au number 27. Elhokar and Kaladin time travel from Oathbringer to Way of Kings.

IMPORTANT: kaladin and elhokar develop weird unhealthy codependent situationship.

(MAJOR Oathbringer spoilers below)

...

Kaladin isn't pulled away by Adolin when he has his meltdown over Elhokar's death, over not being able to Save Everyone, and instead clings to Elhokar's dying body as a symbol of his failures. When Kaladin is killed in the confusion, something - the universe/ sja anat/ tattered pieces of honor and odium / hey maybe even adolnesium themselves who knows is like - errr. What. nope. Not my special boy! Go back, Try Again.

Kaladin wakes up in Way Of Kings, maybe a highstorm or two before the Tower. Kaladin is just like ah i see eternal damnation. Eternal damnation for my failures. Takes a little time before even considering the idea of time travel. Fortunately his attitude and response to thinking he's been consigned to everlasting ironic torment is remarkably similar to his response to the events of the first book, so a few days go by before the bridgecrew notices he's more fucked up than usual.

Elhokar wakes up and (i enjoy the idea of THE COSMERE ITSELF SAVING KALADIN STORMBLESSED! and also Elhokar is there!) has no idea what to do. Testy with both thadeus and dalinar. Figures out some lightweaving. Maybe passes an order that the bridgemen should all have shields, in case Kaladin doesn't remember the future either, as a little goodwill present. After a couple more days he sneaks out to thadeus's bridgemen barracks to ask the hero for help, since none of the other kholins are responding to his leading mention of things he saw in 'dreams'.

Obviously he's not going to show his actual face when the guy who murdered him is in the room.

Dark amorphous blob with glowing blue eyes entering the barracks: Greetings Stormbles - do you all just sleep on the floor? And what is that smell? Heralds, this is depressing. Bridge four: WHAT THE - VOIDBRINGER! VOID- Kaladin : calm down, men, that's not what a voidbringer looks like. I think...its an unmade? Are there unmades in damnation? Only - that voice...do i...know you... Dark amorphous blob with glowing blue eyes: well, looking around, i suppose i can see why you would think this is braize, but come on, we're not actually dead and the almighty sent us ...here... for a reason. I need you to do your hero thing, huphup. Kaladin: ...shallan? Dark amorphous blob with glowing blue eyes: I suppose I am glad for the memory confirmation, but do i look - ugh - okay for hopefully obvious reasons i'm not going to put my true face on, so don't be an idiot and blurt out my real name, but i can probably wear the, ah, outfit she picked for me in Kholinar [Amorphous dark blob turns into pretty light eyed woman]: tada! Bridgefour: uh Teft: storms...you're one of them too...i think... Skar: does anyone else feel like we're in more danger now? Like better we were found with a voidbringer in our quarters than a brightlady? Drehy: no, i agree Hobber: shh! We're finally getting the captain's mysterious backstory ! Bissig: i TOLD you guys he must have got involved with a brightlady Leyten: and i bet on voidbringers which we all agreed was 10 to 1 so i'm pretty sure i'm winning Kaladin: Kaladin: [starting to tear up] Brightlady: uh Kaladin: [grabbing brightlady and audibly sobbing] Brightlady: UH Teft: storms you really broke him Brighlady: what! I have no idea whats happening! He doesn't even like me! You all must have done something to him! Kaladin: i thought...i failed you...that I cohldnt save you...i saw you get stab ed Brightlady: oh...huh. you really take that 'protect everyone' thing seriously. Do you do this every time someone you're guarding gets hurt? Moash: yeah... he's pretty much always like this Bridge four: [general nods of agreement] Brightlady: [awkwardly patting kaladin on the back]: well. The good news is i'm much more stab resilient now! Aha. Still would prefer not to... Kaladin: [weeping] Brightlady: come on bridgeman, there's a desolation coming remember? Saving the world and all that? Rest of bridge four:

Anyway Elhokar somewhat intentionally leads the non Kaladin members of bridge four to believe that the actual Elhokar is dead, and that he (she? No, he, i think. Maybe they? Just - just go by what face i'm wearing!) has taken the king's place through dark magics. He assumes that the bridgemen will like him better if they think he's some sort of unholy kingkilling blood sorcerer, as opposed to the actual elhokar kholin.

Depressingly, he's right.

Unhealthy situationship! They both see each other as a Symbol. Elokhar is the Chance to Save Everyone. Kaladin is the True Hero and Leader. Kaladin starts tutoring elohkar on how to be a good person and leader, blaming his death on not doing so earlier.

Kaladin's ability to do so is somewhat hindered by his deep unwillingness to see elhokar in danger, and his extreme tendency to take control when he sees something wrong. He objectively recognizes that this was also dalinars problem, but still shakes like a chihuahua sometimes to avoid grabbing elhokhar by the scruff of the neck when he does something stupid. Definitely questionable how qualified kaladin is for teaching, but like. There is progress.

Elhokar uses kaladin ruthlessly as a glowing flying tool to instill fear in his highprinces, which makes kaladins skin crawl a little, but it is helping enforce a lot of social changes protecting darkeyes that he never dreamed could happen.

Elhokar at somepoint offers to lightweave kaladin and make him king elokhar instead.

Kaladin doesn't even know where to start unpacking that.

Intriguingly, the whole not seeing the man for the symbol thing, while being Not Great, is also the source of a bit of solid common ground for each other. A few dizzy moments in private where they connect uniquely on what it is to have no friends who are not followers. Of never being allowed to be just a man.

Also some incredibly specific trauma bonding of living through the actual apocalypse. Both have some serious issues regarding dying in the absolute shitshow that was that the unmade palace. Mutual extreme distress when elokhar accidentally lightweaves a flashback. Please imagine a servant walking in on King Elhokar and Lord Stormblessed clinging to one another and shaking on the ceiling while a nightmareish orgy of death takes place beneath them. Paid off extremely well to never discuss what she saw, not that she'd be able to explain it.

Hard to completely cover up because she ran away screaming. Couple people assume the two men were fucking, but honestly most assume by her genuine distress, i mean jokes aside, those are two very good looking men and she was, you know, screaming in terror, so almost definitely not that. Some sort of vision from the almighty? Maybe a voidbringer??

Bridgefour, under the impression that 'elhokars' 'true form' is closer to the shadowy nightmare blob they initially saw (do you know how hard it is to lightweave invisibility? It was a rough draft, alright?), are largely convinced that she walked in on that. And maybe them fucking, uncertain about that part. They are initially supportive of their captain's potential monsterfucking (the man deserves to relax) but grow increasingly concerned about some of the red flags in their relationship.

Anyway, needless to say, dalinar and kaladins dynamic is weird in this one. Still a fair amount of instant mututal respect. But now elhokar is cribbing shamelessly from dalinars hero journey and calling him out on his tendency to seize power, undermining elokhar. So dalinar feels a lot more wobbly about his place.

Apparently not even the visions from god are special, elhokar and his secret radiant (a real radiant!) had been receiving some too? Better, more useful ones even?

And the radiant is taking his place in elhokars trust, and calling him out even MORE for not teaching elhokhar how to be a leader when he was younger, stormfather, did you want him to fail? how did it get this bad? Fortunately, Dalinar is willing to get humble and Grow. Honestly, dalinar and kaladin are probably in a better place. More mutual trust. Less constant exchange of unpayable debts. Kaladins rank is really confusing, but theyre closer to equals than they were in canon.

Teft: lad we need to talk about you and the Uh. Lightweaver. shapeshifter? Kaladin : what? I thought you guys were warming up to eachother Lopen: gancho they're the best unholy creature i've ever met. Proper respect for herdassian women. Skar: lopen does not agree with this intervention but the rest of us are...concerned. Rock: is how he looks at you that we are worried. Like starving man looks at beloved pet axehound. Kaladin: Kaldin: what? Moash: you know i'm fond of the guy, it's like Skar said, we're a little...concerned. That he wants to, you know, kill and eat you so he can take your place. Kaladin: he wouldn't - he definitely wouldn't eat me. Teft: see, the fact that you didn't immediately argue with the 'murder you to take your place' part of that is concerning. Kaladin: he's just going through a lot. Rock: yes, but way you circle one another...again, like axehound and man, only you change places Kaladin: hes my king! and im secretly tutoring him on how to be a leader! of course our dynamic is going to be odd! Teft: look its - he's not a normal person. He doesn't know how to...be a human, i don't think. Kaladin: yeah, sure, I'll give you that. but he's getting better! You saw how he said thank you to sigzil the other day! Moash: kal... Kaladin: i can fix him Moash: kal

Sure hope dalinar never overhears bridgefour and elhokar talking about how glad they are that his nephew is dead and that new elhokar took his place! He definitely wouldn't go into a murderous rage and do something regrettable if he believed that were true!

#Stormlight archive #Oathbringer #Stormlight fanfic #Elhokar kholin #kaladin stormblessed #My au #Stormlight au no 27 #Oathbringer spoilers #cosmere #nevertheless cosmere

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blindradiant · 2 years ago

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I posted another chapter last night! New things are happening

I started writing a fic about a blind Lightweaver last year. For those who don’t know, I’m blind. Ever since I got into the Cosmere, I wanted to read a story about a character like me. Since that doesn’t exist yet, I decided to write one.

I wrote the first scene of this in June of 2021, and posted the full prologue on AO3 a month later. I posted chapter 1 in September, then didn’t work on the fic for months. Other projects had my attention.

In June of 2022 though, a month ago as of the writing of this post, I started working on it in earnest again.

After spending the majority of today editing, I finally have a new chapter posted! I’m excited to come back to this fic and continue the story I considered over two years ago, and finally started last year.

I hope those of you who haven’t read it yet enjoy, and for those of you who are refreshing yourselves and reading the next chapter for the first time, I hope it holds up to your expectations!

#Stormlight Archive #Stormlight fanfic #my fics #Oathbringer spoilers #blindness #blind character #blind author #long fic #original character #shallan kholin #Shallan Davar #Renarin Kholin #Adolin Kholin #Knights Radiant #Order of Lightweavers #Lightweavers #the Unseen Court

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useless-prophet · 10 months ago

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Mapping Radiant Orders (Stormlight Archive) to the Fears (Magnus Archives)

Because I really like categories, and some of the orders/fears just work together so nicely! And also, both end in archives, which just makes me happy for no real reason. Yes, I know there are 14ish fears and only 10 orders, so some fears will just have to sit out :(

Windrunners: The Vast. Endless sky to fall through... forever... especially since the use of Lashings is not technically "flying", but "falling" towards a different direction.

Skybreakers: Though the Vast does fit the flying part of their powers, the Hunt better embodies the determination of Skybreakers to hunt down whoever breaks the law, to any end necessary. I mean, just look at Nale and what happened in Edgedancer.

Dustbringers: Dustbringers want to break things, and have the handy dandy surge of Division to do so. Desolation is the first fear that comes to mind, given the common themes of destruction, but I could also see a pretty strong relation to the Stranger. Dustbringers don't break things for the mindless purpose of breaking things, but to find out how they work. The inside. Sounds a little like the mechanical contraptions and the changelings of the Stranger? Except the Stranger usually breaks people, and the Dustbringers... well, actually, they probably could as well.

Edgedancers: A tricky one at first, because the edgedancers are so darn good all the time. But given that their oath is "I will remember the forgotten", the step to Lonely, while a little paradoxical, is not a large one - most Edgedancers (like Lift), were once the people who were forgotten by society.

Truthwatchers: Ah, what could make a better match than the Truthwatchers and the Eye. Both committed to seeking truth and knowledge, while the Eye represents the ideals of a Truthwatcher taken too far, such seeking truth is not merely a tool to create positive change in the world, but an end within itself.

Lightweavers: Again, Stranger is vaguely tempting because of the Lightweavers' capacity for disguise, but I think that Spiral better represents the illusory aspects of their powers in tricking the mind, as well as the deep lies that Lightweavers often have to confront within themselves.

Elsecallers: As an order whose oaths deal with reaching one's self-potential, Elsecallers are... difficult to lump into a fear. The surge of Transportation matches the Spiral's connection with doors, but Elsecallers are anything but unsure of one's own mind. But Elsecallers do make excellent strategists and scholars because of their rational nature, meaning that the Web is not a bad fit.

Willshapers: Willshapers are all about freedom, self-determination, and the capacity to choose whatever route you want to walk. The Vast and the Lonely fit into the idea of exploration and freedom against being bound by society or a greater power, but we've already used those. The Buried is the opposite of the Willshapers, but unlike the Edgedancers, I think that there's such a difference in ideals between the two that they can't be reconciled in the same way. If you have a solid argument for a better fear, I'd love to hear it.

Stonewards: You know what's always there for you? A Stoneward. You know what's also always there for you? The ground, if only because you're trapped inside a cave that's slowly crushing the air out of your lungs and will never let you go. The rocky resemblance is just too good of a fit.

Bondsmith: Another hard one. Unity is not really a big theme among any of the powers, except maybe Corruption in the sense of a hive and some of its twisted feelings of love. But there is something that all living things are united in - death, aka the End. Is this crazy to map them to? I don't know, it's the best I've got.

Some of the orders just don't work that well with the fears, but I gave it my best shot. Opinions? Arguments? I'd be glad to hear them :)

#magnus archives #rusty quill #stormlight archive #brandon sanderson #cosmere

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kaladinsspear · 7 months ago

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So maybe this is nothing, but does anyone else think the Radiant orders seem almost....paired? Like the metals in Alomancy?

Windrunners (push) and Skybreakers (pull) seem like a pair to me. They both have very similar values - to protect against abuses of power - but Windrunners protect from abuses of physical power and Skybreaker protect from abuses of social/instutional power.

Lightweavers (pull) seek internal, personal truth, whereas Truthwatcher (push) seek external, objective truth.

Willshapers (push) and Edgedancers (pull) are a pair, both are concerned with the importance of people as individuals - no matter how mundane or unusual that person might be.

Elsecallers (pull) seek to reach their potential, whereas Releasers (push) seek internal mastery and control.

Bondsmiths (pull) and Stonewards (push) are both concerned with community and strength through solidarity.

I feel like I'm not doing a good job of articulating my point - its more a vibes thing - but does everybody else get what I'm saying?

I'm still working through the Cosmere so I dont have a full understanding of investature and how the magic systems are connected. Could it be significant that Alomancy has pairing dynamic and the Knights Radiant seem to as well? What happens when paired orders work together?

#stormlight archives #cosmere #knights radiant #my thoughts #talking to the void

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cosmerelists · 8 months ago

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Attending a Party Thrown by Each Radiant Order

As requested by anon. :)

You've been invited to a party! Actually, ten parties. But the twist is that each party is thrown and attended only by a single Radiant order and also we're in some kind of quasi-modern AU. What would each party be like?

[Previously: Radiant Orders play boardgames, have sleepovers, and go to musicals]

1. The Lightweaver Party

The invitation is a glossy, stylized illustration of a hand holding a wine glass--a true work of art. You later find out that every invitation is unique; no two are the same. The invitation leads you to a large ballroom-esque hall. "What is your name tonight?" asks a masked figure at the door. "Uh...Fred?" you say. You had not planned this. "Welcome...Fred," they say and let you in. It is shadowy inside, perhaps because all of the light comes from fairy lights and electric candles. Everyone is masked--including you, as per the invitation. People glide about, talking and laughing in low voices. It's not unwelcoming exactly, but certainly...surreal.

2. The Windrunner Party

The invitation is a couple of dudes saying, "Hey, there's a thing. Wanna come?" when you run into them at the bar. "The thing" appears to be some kind of picnic at a local park: you were told it was a potluck, so you did bring a macaroni salad, but the focus seems to be the large pot of stew that one of the men is making. There's a lot of eating and laughter and sunshine, and frankly a lot of hot people in uniform. You have a good time. Even if the Captain is just a little bit glowery the whole time.

3. The Edgedancer Party

A roller skating rink! You haven't been to a roller skating rink in sooo long! You're honestly psyched. As you do your best to skate around, others glide smoothly past you, looking like they were born skating. When you take a break to eat a mediocre but nostalgic corndog, a couple of them sit with you and you get to chatting. You're just at a skating rink, eating a mediocre corndog, but somehow...you've never felt so heard. When you go back to skating, you're skating with maybe a tear in your eye.

4. The Stoneward Party

It's just a party at someone's house, where everyone brings a case of beer or a bottle of wine or a snack food, and everyone drinks out of red solo cups. But you know what the vibe is? Convivial. Like, people are waving you over to join their conversations and asking about your hobbies and at one point? Someone suggests a party game? And everyone plays? Like, it WAS a pretty competitive game of charades, but everyone seemed to be having fun the whole time.

5. The Truthwatcher Party

Their party was at a local bar and on trivia night. The party was immediately pretty boisterous--someone brings up politics, like, immediately, and then everyone is happily shouting their thoughts back and forth across the table. But when trivia time hits, the mood turns serious.

6. The Dustbringer Party

It's in the basement of a warehouse that you're pretty sure is due for demolition. Certainly, it does NOT feel particularly structurally sound and there IS a lot of, like, concrete dust and debris everywhere. But once you get downstairs--well, this is not just a party. This is a rager. There is music and alcohol and drugs if you want 'em, and people are shouting and dancing and generally having a good time. "When you're like us, you GOTTA let loose every once in a while or you go INSANE!" someone says to you at one point. "It's about release?" you say and everyone in a five-foot radius groans at the pun.

7. The Willshaper party

It's drugs. Lots of drugs. Some of them are illegal, some of them aren't, but the people here would definitely scoff if you tried to make that distinction.

8. The Elsecaller Party

Well, it certainly is a very correct party. You receive an RSVP, and it's clear that you are meant to respond. In writing. Which you do. The RSVP lets you know that the party is semiformal, and that the dinner course will begin at precisely 7pm, so you do not even try to do the whole "fashionably late" thing. You are there by 6:55. Good thing, too, because everyone else is already there. "Everyone" being Jasnah and one small, inky man. Have you ever had dinner with your dissertation advisor who is also your mom somehow? Well, then you know how this party went. You were SWEATING the whole time.

9. The Skybreaker Party

When they checked your ID at the entrance to the small event hall they had rented, you laughed and asked if they wanted to make sure you were over 21. Their expression in reply told you that this was not a joke. Inside, there is a cash bar, and some hors d'oeuvre being handed around on plates. The people inside are mostly talking about their recent accomplishments in a way that makes you feel that they are all very stressed and trying to prove something. "It's a test," says a bald man who appeared very suddenly next to you. "A test of what?" you ask, suddenly very afraid. But he is gone.

10. The Bondsmith Party

You're at a party, and it's just you and two other people. The two other people? Married. You feel like you're crashing a date. They're being very nice and you are being included in every conversation but you're also literally the third at a party with only two other people who are married. You can't help but think this would be WAY less awkward if there were just ONE more Bondsmith. But who knows if THAT will ever happen!

#cosmere #cosmerelists #knights radiant #stormlight archive

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