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theglassesgirl · 4 months ago

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Calypso vs Antinous: A Tale of Two Villains

I know this is such a weird topic for me to come back for after not blogging for months, especially I’ve never spoken on this fandom here, as opposed to TikTok. But precisely BECAUSE tiktok is so limiting, even if you make various videos on a topic, someone won’t have all the context and the comment system of that app is pure ass so here I am

Calypso and Antinous are two (out of three!) of the MAJOR villains in the Wisdom Saga, however, both these villains have produced polarizing discourse that has fascinated yet confounded me. On Calypo’s end, she is a villain who many are made upset by when she is interpreted as the villain she is (in varying degrees). On Antinous’s end, he is a villain who many are made upset by when he is interpreted as anything BUT the villain he is (in various extremes). What on earth happened here?

I’ll try to dissect what has transpired as i have come to understand both situations.

PLEASE try to read through the end, but if you like, you are also more than welcome to just focus on one section if you don’t care for both discourses or how i think one affects the other. I totally get it. KEEP IN MIND, that i might speak about something you haven’t PERSONALLY seen, but as i often say in fandom, just because YOU didn’t see it, doesn’t mean it didn’t HAPPEN. It adds context to why/how certain fans are reacting as they are. You could be in one camp, and never have seen what the other camp has, so at any point where youre reading and saying to yourself “is this a thing that happened?” Consider that it did indeed, happen, and you are welcome to expand your knowledge on the subject.

ANY comments that go “you have no idea what your talking about/this isn’t true/i’ve never seen this/when did this happen(sarcastically)” will not be answered and you will be blocked, because it is clear you are not actually open to discussion. You’ve made up your mind about these characters and topics, and my time, at least, is valuable.

GENUINE questions like “I didn’t know this/when did this happen (genuine)/can you explain this point more” are more than welcome. I will absolutely entertain character interpretation as well, so long as we’re not trying to “convince” one another, as that isn’t the point of this post. These are two villains who i find fascinating and am wondering why are being treated so differently in discourse spaces.

For Calypso:

I truly and HONESTLY believe that because Calypso is a unique (and lovable! Mind you!) villain, it had led to many of her newer fans to feel uncomfortable with her role in the story. I have seen numerous sides of her discourse and have come with a few iron-clad rules: it is ONLY acceptable to call someone out if they are harassing Wangui, calypo’s VA (which has NOT happened as i am writing this out) OR if an anti-calypso comes into SOMEONE ELSE’s post saying anything like “if you like calypso then you condone her actions” because as what we sane people know, that is just a silly fallacy, OR if they start shit in a cosplayers/fanfic writer/fanartists comment section. ASIDE from these instances, i will be speaking on what none sense has transpired about how Calypso is portrayed in the Musical within her first song, and her future song, because BOTH have been used for utter bias.

A few things to debunk:

FIRST Calypso is NOT cursed to fall in love with anyone who comes across her island. That is a Percy Jackson ONLY addition that has no bearings on her actions in the musical or the original poem.

ALSO though Calypso CANONICALLY RAPES Odysseus for seven years in the original poem, the CHILDREN from that abuse only really exist in secondary sources/works. They NOT in the original poem.

Having said that:

The Ambiguity of Calypso’s actions in both of her songs means that everyone is right when they speculate on what she has done. Odysseus was trapped on her island against HIS will for seven years. He is canonically seen refusing her advances, trying to kill himself, and begging her to let him go and leave him alone. These are UNDISPUTED facts. As such, regardless of how YOU personally choose to interpret Calypso actions, she will always have a CANONICAL victim in the musical. I feel people are forgetting Odysseus when they speak on Calypso and that’s the whole point of her existence in the poem and the musical.

This leads directly into WHY there has been arguments about Calypso’s character. In the POEM, she very much sexually assaults Odysseus for seven long years. He is seen crying nightly and begging to be free. In the MUSICAL, Jorge has decided to leave the situation ambiguous - which, i have seen, does not sit well with current fandom culture. NEW fans of Calypso seem to be very adamant about NOT interpreting Calypso as a rapist, in levels that range for they’re just not comfy with it so decided not to head canon her as such, to other very concerningly speaking about rape survivors in such a way to justify liking a villain when you dont HAVE to justify liking a villain at any point at all ever.

Let’s break it down.

Those who just don’t like the idea of Calypso being a rapist in the MUSICAL are valid. It’s very easy to block and avoid those who have chosen to explore this aspect of her in the musical because they can and are allowed to. I am very pro-finding a space in fandom where you can talk about Calypso without HAVING to mention she might have raped someone. She’s still a villain for having kept Odysseus captive for seven years, but it’s not important. You are more than allowed to love villains, and without the rape aspect, Calypso’s villainy boils down to her physiological and emotionally torturing Odysseus while physically kidnapping him. That’s still ALOT of bad stuff to unpack, if you so want to. You could also not want to! It doesn’t hurt anyone, and anyone who says it does is not being intellectually honest.

The PROBLEM that I’m seeing, is that many of her newer fans…DONT want Calypso to be seen as a villain. At all. Which…is not how fandom works, I’m sorry to say.

While some EPIC fans have interpreted Calypso of being manipulative / selfish even in their most sympathetic analysis of the story (and the current song), others are treating these interpretation as wholly incorrect and somehow a form of harassment. The main caveat to this reaction appears to be, as TikTok puts it, “That Calypso DOESN’T SA Odysseus on the musical”

As we have pointed out, Calypso canonically rapes Odysseus in the poem, while it’s ambiguous in the musical. As we have ALSO pointed out, the ambiguity of the musical allow ALL INTERPRETATIONS to be correct. Something about the RAPE aspect of Calypso’s characterization in this musical, however, is the primary reason this discourse has happened.

Now, as i have said earlier. You are in your RIGHT to not head canon Calypso has a rapist in the musical. In the same vein others also have a RIGHT to head canon Calypso AS a rapist in the musical. But from what I’ve seen, it’s when others interpret Calypso as a rapist that newer Calypso fans leave comments about they’re not “interpreting the story correctly” and not “Judging calypso based on Jorge’s vision” and at first i found it funny…now it’s a bit concerning.

There are two instances that come to mind. One tiktoker made a video where she was in tears saying that it made HER SAD that people were “judging Calypso wholly based on outside sources material” which is disingenuous. As i have said before, even without the RAPE aspect of Calypso, which i will go further into what her newer fans consider “rape”, she is still an antagonist within the musical - she is a villain who keeps Odysseus against his will. To claim that they are calling her a villain for that reason alone is a blatant and useless addition to the discourse. I did not care for it at all. It would have been MUCH MORE constructive for this tiktoker to say that even though Calypso is a villain, the sexual assault is up to individual interpretation, and as all interpretations are valid, it’s better to find people who agree with your head canons rather than start fights with people who don’t share yours. This tiktoker very poorly worded the discourse as a one-sided thing where one side is wrong, and that is simply not true.

ANOTHER tiktoker, who wisely turned off comments because such discussions are impossible on the app, worryingly claimed that a line in Not Sorry for Loving You was absolute PROOF that Calypso did not “rape” Odysseus so it was wrong to interpret her as such, because, and this is a loose quotation “i don’t think Jorge would make Odysseus say something like that HAD Calypso done that to him” which unfortunately leaves fandom discourse into REAL WORLD victim discourse. Holy shit. The line she is referring to is when Odysseus calms Calypso down when she is in the middle of explaining her actions by saying “Calypso i love you, but not the way you want me to” to this tiktoker, it seems illogical for a rape victim to every say these kinds of things to their rapist…which is….NOT it. At all. Fiction, as beautiful as it is, is meant for you to QUESTION “huh…how would this impossible fictional scenario work? What makes this compelling?” It is NOT meant for you to attribute your REAL WORLD assumptions onto a FICTIONAL SCENARIO in order to justify you liking a villain character when you dont HAVE to justify it. You can like Calypso! It’s only weird when you make real-world comparisons like this because a rape victim can and HAS said as much and even more to their rapists in known history. *bonks you* dont do what this person did! Fiction allows you to explore situation that would be traumatizing outside of it in as safe and consensual way! You CANNOT and should NOT ascribe your personal biases on sensitive topics for FICTIONAL characters. That’s not how this works. “real victim wouldn’t x, so fictional wouldn’t y” is a ludicrous statement! You can’t back it up with facts! “Fictional victim does x, so i wonder if there ever would be a situation where a real victim would do y, and would like educate myself on the topic” IS what fiction was made for! OPENing your mind, not closing it for stupid reasons.

But it got me thinking. BECAUSE these fans anchor their arguments on the rape of Odysseus, even when they themselves DONT consider it, what exactly do they consider rape, and why is that ONE act Calypso may or may not do the ONLY reason to call her a villain when she is one, regardless.

Well, I’ve seen a lot of back and forth. Some anti-calypso’s are okay with the idea that Calypso is more of a “kissy-face” monster, a silly villain who, having no concept of what actual love is and what your supposed to do with someone you love, thinks hugging and kissing is the only thing on the table. It still makes this version of Calypso something of a sex pest and is still in line with sexual assault as we see Odysseus is miserable. The gravity of the situation is based entirely on funny fanfics to Odysseus canonically trying to kill himself because of Calypso’s affection. This interpretation (shockingly enough) is also hated by some new Calypso fans.

Because from what i have gathered. “SA” as used in TikTok, had been boiled down to a literal forced insertion of Odysseus’s dick in Calypso’s vagina. Not the literal words “sexual assault” which is an umbrella term for multiple things. But in this discourse “SA” has JUST been used for the ACT of rape itself. That is what new Calypso fans think is criminal. That is what they entirely base her villainy on. Because we will NEVER get confirmation on whether this happened, it’s impossible to engage with some of the newer fans, who dislike attributing Calypso with the villain title because of this one thing and this one thing alone. Any other line, from Calypso saying “and I’m sorry if i pushed you, or if i came on too strong” in her next song, or even her saying “in bed we will climb” is, for some reason, not grounds for others to be allowed to interpret her as, at the very least, assaulting Odysseus physically and sexually in a way without having to have actually raped him. It boggles my mind. Truly. But every argument i have seen has boiled down to the newer fans saying “welllllll, we dont know the context, and Odysseus said —“ when i have already explained that none of that matters. All interpretations are valid. You CANNOT say with certainty that she did or didn’t rape Odysseus. That’s the POINT. You can’t PROVE either, stop TRYING to, it’s YOUR choice and your interpretation can be backed by lyrics/official animatics, but it is hardly an absolute.

It has become a GROWING problem that in videos where Calypso is portrayed negatively, there are at least a dozen newer calypso fans who have to bring up how she is sympathetic, and therefore, not a villain. Which is not true. She is the MOST compelling villain in the epic musical, thus far.

These “fans” say that she absolutely didn’t rape Odysseus which is theory, not fact. And not a theory that can become fact. In the same way that saying she absolutely did rape is can not become fact. They appear to believe everything outside of this hypothetical act, nothing else she does is deserving of her title as a villain, and start arguments in non discourse posts about all the ways she’s sympathetic when it goes hand in hand with what makes her a compelling villain antagonist.

There’s also a newer cope saying that it’s all Zeus’s fault anyway, which has NO bearings on the conversation as, again, despite Zeus being a dick and allowing Odysseus live while not necessarily enabling him returning to Ithaca, it’s still up to Calypso on how she acts towards HER captive. And she straight up chooses violence lmao. Athena asks for “Devine intervention” to an impossible situation, regardless of if it was Zeus’s actions that led to it, it’s also up to him to “untie apprehensions” because Calypso, being a goddess, has complete control over whether Odysseus can leave and SHE won’t. She has to be ORDERD to. By a HIGHER power. Zeus.

Such argumentations as “well if YOU were in Calypso’s situation, wouldn’t you also do the same” are useless fallacies to get into, because you are NOT a goddess who owns an island and is in possession of a man who does not love you. Even if you were, guess what, it still makes you the antagonist. A villain. A knowing one or not.

In fact, since I LIKE interpretations that Calypso isn’t psychologically torturing Odysseus ON PURPOSE, i go as far as to say that her being a genuine goddess who wants love is in fact…..so much more painful, narratively. Because that means she is INCAPABLE of ever being a good person. Her loneliness and fear of being unloved makes her utterly blind to Odysseus’s misery. She HEARS him saying constantly that he misses his family, that all he hears are screams, and that SHE doesn’t know him, but she in turn CANNOT get passed this because she is, at her core, unable to, and thus accidentally triggers him constantly, is delusional about her island being paradise, AND convinces herself that her love is real (when it is not) and that Oddy will love her back if she keeps trying.

THAT is what you call a compelling villain!

As in all Calypso stories. There is NEVER a moment of clarity where Calypso realizes “if i actually love this person, i should let him go” in the musical HERMES is tasked in telling her to let him go. And she, as in all her other stories, goes on a tirade to explain/justify her actions, however you wish to see her being manipulative or honest. Regardless of how you choose to SEE calypso, at the end of the day, she has NO RIGHT to be upset at Odysseus because he was her captive. And REGARDLESS of whether Odysseus’s words are interpreted as him forgiving her, or just placating her, at the end of the day, he is her victim and she ends her next song upset that he is willingly leaving her once he got the chance. With absolutely no hope of him returning her feelings. It’s not his job to make her feel better, she IS an antagonist, and you are allowed to love her no matter how that might upset others. It is ONLY a problem when you take it to such extremes that you are in other peoples comments acting as if Calypso is a real person who needs defending. You are more than in your right to block people who come into YOUR videos accusing you of somehow being a bad person because you like a bad person. That’s not how fiction works.

Once again. My analysis of the Calypso debacle is that for some, calling Calypso a villain upsets them. Because they like her, and they are uncomfortable with the idea of liking a villain. This is a personal grievance that shouldn’t boil into fandom. Know your truth, have fun. You CAN make silly calypso videos. Many have. Her song is a bop, the meaning of the song is hilariously dark compared to the composition. Jorge did his job VERY well. Too well, that the idea of liking Calypso feels either / or when it’s not. TRUST that i would not be on the side of anyone who says “if you like calypso, youre evil”, but I HAVE seen a pattern that because Calypso is likable, than several people have made it their confused mission to tell everyone who is “mean to her” that “if you DISLIKE calypso, YOU are evil”. That’s bizarre to me. Calypso does enough evil actions in the musical to warrant that title regardless of the reasons for her actions, whether she is being purposely malicious or unconsciously so due to her lack of socialization. Being weird about real life SA survivors for a fictional character is never acceptable. For or against Calypso, whether she is a rapist or not, it is up to YOU to find like minded people who share your interpretation, not to argue with people who disagree with you in their own space. She isn’t real. Get over it.

ANYONE WHO HARASSES WAGNUI, COSPLAYERS, OR GOES INTO POSITIVE CALYPSO INTERPRETATION SPACES TO BE PURPOSELY MEAN* ARE WRONG. Otherwise. Leave them alone, they are as valid as you are. “Defending” a character is a waste of time when you could be creating for them. Calypso is a compelling villian antagonist regardless of how uwu or vile you choose to make her. Thus is the beauty of fiction.

(*purposely mean, would, logically, be someone calling you an idiot or a rape apologist for headcanoning her in a positive way. The ideal interaction with a negative calypso interpreter would be “i dont see her this way, but i understand/like your headcanon”)

WHICH BRINGS US TO Antinous:

Hilariously enough. Antinous has the complete INVERSE problem as Calypso, which was also detailed in her section for fairness sake at multiple points, and this problem is much easier to understand. Antinous is a villian antagonist in the musical Epic, and in his debut in the wisdom saga, he is shown (like calypso) to be in direct opposition to Telemachus and Penelope’s goal.

He alludes to sexual assault much more clearly than calypso. He calls Penelope a tramp to her son’s face AND suggests he let them into her room “so [they] can have fun with her” which is in the same vein as calypso saying “soon in bed we will climb” to Odysseus later on that “you (Odysseus) are mine all mine” in her own song. Like calypso, it is told to us that Antinous has been having this kind of vibe for FIVE YEARS* (a fan pointed this out to me! read here🙏🏼) as opposed to calypso’s seven years. Everyone is, usually, in agreement that Antinous is a villain in the wisdom saga and in the overall Epic musical.

Antinous’s VA is ON TikTok, and has spoken about how happy he is that fans consider him a talented person who did a spectacular rendition of such a villainous character. AND YET.

Inversely from what we saw in the Calypso section, where some of her fans are against the notion of her being portrayed as the antagonist she is, for Antinous we have MANY fans claiming that others are not ALLOWED to portray him as anything BUT an antagonist. Unlike with Calypso, where people circularly argue that her allusions to sexual assault are “too ambigous” and lead to much senseless debate on whether you’re “allowed” to like her or call her a villian, with ANTINOUS, there is this claim that he ABSOLUTELY is alluded to sexual assault and therefore, cannot be liked or treated as anything other than a villain.

As i have discussed AT LENGTH in Calypso’s section, this argumentation is pure fallacy.

There have been NUMEROUS thirst videos that have rightfully said that DESPITE the actions of the character, they still think Antinous is hot and likable (the Gaston affect, if you will). Even WITHOUT the disclaimer, it is OF COURSE understood that Antinous fans are NOT rape apologists. That is a ridiculous assumption that serves only to kill any interpretation that someone else can rightfully have.

It’s utterly devoid of nuance or actual knowledge of how to play within fandom and interact w characters.

There have been SEVERAL posts calling Antinous fans delusional for liking him and “reminding” the fandom that he is a bad guy. This serves no purpose and is utterly useless to the discourse. Antinous being a bad guy is not debated. This is factual. It doesn’t (or shouldn’t, because we cannot speak in absolutes) hurt anyone’s feelings to see an Antinous videos depicting him as the villain he is. Like with Calypso it is ONLY acceptable to call someone out if they are harassing Ayron Alexander, Antinous’s VA (which has NOT happened as i am writing this out) OR if an anti-Antinous comes into SOMEONE ELSE’s post saying anything like “if you like Antinous then you condone his actions” because as what we sane people know, that is just a silly fallacy, OR if they start shit in a cosplayers/fanfic writer/fanartists comment section.

Otherwise. Who cares that someone is saying Antinous is a villain? Block the no fun police and enjoy analysis from others who choose to see him purely as what he is, if you want. If you dont, block them to, it’s your space. You have a RIGHT to headcanon Antinous however you want, even make up AUs for him where he’s nice or lives and gets a happy ending, SO LONG AS you’re not in other people’s posts going actually Antie is my uwu child and he did nothing wrong. Cuz then youre just being dumb. And annoying. Fandom is already impatient with genuine disagreement, being a smart ass gets your head dunked in a toilet. I used to think this was common sense.

(And in case you didn’t read the Calypso section, or didn’t see enough of it there, this IS the appropriate response to people who address newer fans of her as rape apologists too, its in her section, i just also thought it was important to touch on the stranger phenomena of her other fans refusing to call her a villain because it makes them personally uncomfortable - it’s very interesting as Calypso is a female antagonist while Antinous being a male antagonist is being treated very differently for the same subject. In any case, it’s a disservice to either character and Jorge’s narrative to get upset about the very real fact that BOTH of these characters are villain antagonists.)

The very CURRENT discourse surrounding Antinous is that he was recently shipped with Telemachus.

The animator for Apollo’s section of God Games was harassed to such a point that she had to make a public apology regarding her ALTERNATE UNIVERSE scenario. And i, personally, think that’s bullshit.

There have been accusations that she was being insensitive to sexual assault survivors, and that she made a dark joke, all of which she addressed in her apology IN ADDITION to her explaining that she is ALSO a survivor of child sexual assault. She took down her work. DESPITE all of this, there are still others who continue to harass her, and claim that they dont want “a rape creator” in THEIR fandom. To those people: you don’t speak for any of us. In the same way you can claim not to believe that the animator is a survivor, i have no reason to consider your concerns in any way shape or form as being in service of victims. It is absolutely not your call, when blocking and scrolling on will ALWAYS be an option for YOU.

Even in the event someone writes Antonio’s fan fiction keeping his canon personality and characterization in a non-canon divergent way it is not grounds to harass people.

In addition to this animator, there have been SEVERAL Antinous shippers who have expressed disappointment that she was essentially harassed into a corner, as they also liked the ship and the AU she created. These people are NOT “weird” they are allowed to express themselves creatively, and if you disagree, dont even bother with leaving any sort of response — i wont read it, my time is important. Stay in your echo chamber. Even if it wasn’t an AU, and someone wants to write for Antinous as he is in the narrative, they are more than allowed to do so. Dark fiction isn’t going to traumatize you or give you cooties. Grow up.

I am MUCH more willing to ride with Antinous shippers than i ever will be with fans who attempt to control how a character is interpreted by others. Because to ship Antinous with anyone, AU or otherwise, you have to have an UNDERSTANDING of why this would be a compelling thing to write/make fanart for. He is an evil character, and it would be FASCINATING to see him in fictional scenarios that (like in the calypso section) lead us to as WHY this would be an appealing and interesting take on someone. It’s OKAY to do it in fiction. He isn’t REAL. It’s not hurting EVERYONE. And more so than with calypso, it IS understood that Antinous HAS victims in Penelope and Telemachus There’s no senseless debate on what he is, a villain, no one is arguing he is a uwu babygirl so please sympathize w him, it’s inherently understood even among his FANS.

This is why find Antonio’s and Calypso’s discourses so polarizing. Because no one is getting offended or arguing that Antinous only acts villainously because of some tragic backstory or sympathetic reason. It would be absurd to.

That’s the appeal of a lovable villain. Because like Calypso, Antinous IS lovable, but in such a different way that you have fans treating both characters as if they’re polar opposite when at the very LEAST, there’s on the same bracket, just different ends of them. Telemachus/Penelope and Odysseus’s plights are being MIRRORED in parallel.

THAT is what floors me about these two discourses. That they are functionally THE SAME yet are being treating as if they aren’t. I’m positive that there is an Antinous fan who detests Calypso in the same way there is a Calypso fan who detests Antinous. These are called biases. Once you KNOW your own bias, it is up to YOU to act right according to them.

You are responsible for your OWN fyp.

The Epic fandom had yet to experience such backwards discourse as this, and I wouldn’t expect Jorge or any of the VAs to dignify such trivial discourse with a response. If you’re the type to bring it up to them, you’re being awful. The popular fandom Epic tiktokers are already way too involved as it is. And even they are getting things wrong.

It almost feels remiss to say that in the NARRATIVE of the musical, both Calypso and Antinous are villian antagonists, while outside of the narrative they become dolls you can play with however you like, so long as we are not in each others comments being obtuse. I don’t expect any of my essay to even make it to a larger part of the fandom. But i HAD to get my ideas written down, because if you don’t see someone else connecting the dots you have, you have to present them yourself. Very “can’t we all just get along?” But hopefully, not as insufferable nor one-sides as others might have been. I tried to bring up ideas/points that i have not seen discussed about these two villains and why they seem to connect and go hand in hand.

Why is Calypso, as a female antagonist, given more grace than Antinous, a male antagonist, who is very firmly given none at all. It very well could be just how they were presented, and if so, ask yourself WHY these villains were presented so differently. What purpose do they serve? What are they trying to accomplish? These are questions more suited for actual fandom collaboration that is being drowned out by circular arguements. It feels like homework, instead of knee-jerk reacting to interpretations unlike your own.

To ME, these two characters are two sides of the same coin. (though I DO think it’s funny that the NEUTRAL phrase to refer to either character is “I hate them BUT” because in reasonable fandoms, this is understood inherently….but in this fandom such decorum seems to be lost? For some reason?? Wisdom saga has brought out a lack of wisdom, I fear.) This is the kind of purity culture that suggest you can’t LIKE a character of their a villain, so you go out of your way to argue they aren’t, or that no one else should like them: that’s bonkers. You might disagree and it might even upset you, but that’s a you problem to have.

Having said that, and if you are POSITIVE that you want to engage in conversation with me, you are welcome to do so.

#epic the musical #epic the wisdom saga #epic calypso #epic antinous #epic telemachus #epic odysseus #purity culture #the way calypso and atinous would both have identical sections if not for the fact some of her new stans refuse to accept she’s a villain #a hot villain!!!#bonkers to yonkers how liking villains is still a discourse issue lmao

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hymnoeides · 3 months ago

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almost got into a fistfight online today because people were ragging on odysseus and saying he was a hypocrite for being upset that eury killed helios’ cattle when he killed the cyclops’ sheep. HE DIDNT KNOW!!!!!! HE THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST RANDOM SHEEP!!!!!!! EURY KNEW THE CATTLE WERE THE FUCKING SUN GOD’S CATTLE!!!!!!!! Ok im calm again. i’m just a passionate ody lover and bark when people are mean. like dude thats the king of ithaca. 💢💢💢

STAAANDDD UPPPP ANON!!!!🗣️🗣️ SPEAK UR TRUTHS. Sure there are facepalm worthy moments all throughout, but it’s all very much human of them in the end imo.

Especially so in the original Odyssey (which I know it’s different from Epic canon, but I want to yap now that we’re here sorry) Odysseus and Polyphemus’ scene is known by many as a prime example of the violation of xenia not from Odysseus, but Polyphemus. Odysseus and his crew, sure, went into the Cyclops’ home to kill and take some sheep, but they were actually aware that it was someone’s abode. When you show up to someone’s house as a guest, you’re expected to be fed. Maybe they were a bit impatient with taking the sheep? Well they were a hungry bunch🤷 Not to mention the wine Odysseus had and offered Polyphemus? If I recall correctly rn, it was in fact all intentional as a trade. Odysseus and the group willingly stayed in Polyphemus’ cave for him to come back to do the trade instead of just running off with the sheep. They didn’t know Polyphemus was a monster that had no regards for the laws and the doom that would follow.

Even in Epic, Odysseus tried to reconciled what they’ve done with the gift of wine. Polyphemus chose not to take it properly as an exchange and even mocked them with the ‘you’ll be the last to die’. If you really wanted to choose something to fault Odysseus with there, his hubris is right there!!!! Just a man at the end of the day, what can I say. This concept of violating xenia very much comes back with the suitors, their treatment of beggar Odysseus especially, but I’ll spare you the geeking out. Adding on, ik the concept of time is vague in Epic and it definitely was a lot shorter judging Mutiny, but in the og, the crew were literally stranded on the island for a month iirc. They were constantly starving. Hunger can be a strong motivator. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the crew were also lowkey so low on hopes they would ever get home that it was very easy for them to break, but I digress ajsjakaja

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dramaturgydrakes · 2 months ago

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Hnmmm I’m bad at asking questions but I want to know more about baby!hermes AU/any headcanons you have for epic!hermes so uhh use this ask to shameless share stuff

ok ok i dont actually have too much cuz its like 6am BUT.

rebabied hermes AU

he has a cow plushie. possibly made by penelope? either way it’s funny

ABSOLUTELY tried to steal ody’s cattle first thing. ended with anti-hermes measures aided by apollo

has woken up ody and pen several times playing the lyre like a guitar in the middle of the night. for funsies.

while he’s very bold, he’s also very easily spooked. bolts faster than a cat at sudden movements and loud noises (realizing my hermes is very catlike help)

notoriously known for “if you can’t find him, he’s causing trouble.” ody and pen will search the palace for him for hours then find out him and telemachus are wreaking havoc down in the market

he can ramble for hours. either about the same thing or he jumps topics every 30 seconds. sometimes it devolves into gibberish. penelope is VERY used to this from ody and tele and able to actually engage, while ody looks at her like “?? is this what i put you through”. telemachus is “← his ass is NOT listening” but sits thru it without a problem

for the first few weeks he pretends that he has to shed feathers just to cause problems for One Specific Servant he doesn’t like. then apollo stops by like “why tf is the palace covered in baby fluff. this is unnecessary” and hermes has to actually communicate because apollo is trained to see through his bs lol

ody tries to put him in timeout and he goes “you’re MY great-grandson!! and i’m a god!!! you can’t make me do anything!! YOU go in the corner!!!!!” which earns him a very long lecture from penelope as the alternative. never fusses over timeout again and does a very good job thinking about what he’s done. as an equivalent for stickers pen just gives him interesting little baubles that have his attention for hours afterwards

despite being a small child he still traumatizes telemachus with completely unnecessary tidbits about ody. then they go cause problems together anyways

probably more later idk lol

epic / regular hermes

he’s a stoner. this is basically accepted as canon by most fans now but i digress

this is kinda more general hermes than just epic, but: i imagine that when ody was a baby he was a BIG crier—anticlea and laertes were up almost every night trying to figure out how to calm him down. then, one night, anticlea wakes to him crying, but it stops suddenly and she panics, hurrying to his room. there, instead of something terrible, she finds hermes gently dancing with baby ody and singing lullabies that apollo used to sing to him. ody is absolutely enamored with him, just staring up at hermes with the biggest, most fascinated eyes. i imagine hermes also has his facial wings aside, but baby ody doesn’t seem at all scared of having the full attention of six glowing eyes :)

every problem odysseus causes is reason for celebration. every trick, every feat, every theft—and, at the same time, every generosity to the beggars and less fortunate of his kingdom. (i mean. hermes is a patron of groups that are usually lower class hshhs)

he and apollo are besties now but apollo absolutely still has days where he wants to throttle hermes. especially when hermes brings up the cows. hermes LOVES bringing up the cows. apollo proceeds to set his clothes on fire, like any immensely irritated big brother

sad moment but hermes has so much guilt over odysseus’s suffering. he’s meant to protect travelers, and he’s granted odysseus as much luck and protection as he can, but he couldn’t protect his crew and he couldn’t spare his great-grandson from horrible anguish. i know gods in mythos care very little for mortals, but hermes just feels different to me. in the odyssey he’s very kind and benevolent, legitimately caring for odysseus from what we can tell, and seeing his family in so much pain hurts him too

he visits anticlea frequently after her death

my brain is not at functioning capacity so this is all i got but yeah :)

#puppy yaps back #epic the musical #hermes #epic hermes #rebabied hermes au #baby hermes #cw drug mention #for the stoner part

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mer-acle · 2 months ago

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Honestly, I never fleshed out how Athena got Ody, been sorta playing around with the idea she adopts him as a baby??? Like she’s still a goddess so I can see her maybe adopting a baby to have more knowledge about motherhood maybe??? And the baby just so happens to be Odysseus, girlie has no clue what she’s doing, thank fuck Hermes is there as I imagine he’s actually pretty good with kids/babies (just….the way odyessus is in the musical and how excited he sounds about Hermes makes me think that Hermes had been around Ody in his childhood)

Athena’s human name is Natalie and Hermes is Troy! Athena was so shocked to hear her name from Ody that when she went to his room to check on him she dropped her human disguise

Telemachus Is still very much odypen’s child UwU sweet little wolf…he regains his memories when he’s 6! Fighting off a reincarnated!antinous (basically a kindergarten version of little wolf with no Athena interference 🤣)

Ironically enough! After so many years, Poseidon has mellowed out and actually helps Ody with some identity issues of being a “monster” once Ody regained his memories!

Not all reincarnated ppl have bad important moments that make them regain their memories, Penelope regained hers after she started dating Ody! Went on a first date then fell sick but once she got better she spam called Ody needing to talk to him so badly!

Poor polites :( he ended up regaining his memories at a sleepover with Ody! He got sick during the night and woke up screaming captain, both Ody and polites are going THROUGH IT

Athena: So I kinda have a project...

Hermes:

Hermes: you cannot be serious. We have a kid now?

Athena: I have a kid now.

Later, after shit went down.

Athena: No you're right, we have a kind now.

Both of the names are so good. (Natalie bc I'm a black widow girlie and that was her first codename in the MCU how coincidence goes sometimes I swear) And Troy, bc what else would it be (in canon, he probably named himself that to piss Apollo off about the war lol)

Oh what's it like in the AU how different are their disguises to their real form?

Ah Tel in his little kindergarten brawl my heart

Oh I love that actually. Have Athena and Poseidon made up as well?

Oh the gods must have jobs right what are they working as?

Oh Pen haha. Imagine going on a date and then getting hit over the head with a whole life you shared with the guy. She must have been scared he didn't remember ahhh

Oh gods not the captain jumpscare 😭😭😭 poor babies

#epic the musical #epic reincarnated #epic au

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pale-opal · 4 months ago

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I Listened to "The Wisdom Saga" and I Have Some Thoughts - Part 2

This is the sequel to this post. I will be picking up right where I left off, starting with:

4. Love in Paradise - I feel as if I've been tricked, been backstabbed, and quite possibly, bamboozled. - I came into this expecting unrequited-love related hijinks. - Do you wanna know what I got instead? - The most emotionally taxing song in the entire freaking saga. - I have listened to this song several times and so far, every time it ends I feel sad. But when the song starts, you have no idea what you're in for. - "Love in Paradise"? More like "Suffering in Paradise" (/j). - We begin with a medley of some of the most iconic songs from past sagas, starting with "Remember Them" from "The Cyclops Saga". After that point, the rest of the songs go by quickly, with Athena speedrunning through a montage of Odysseus' past up until his current point. The remaining songs in the medley are:

Keep Your Friends Close

Ruthlessness (I love how this song was changed for the medley, by the way. The faster tempo puts more emphasis on the drums and I think that's so fun)

Done For

No Longer You

Different Beast

Scylla

Thunder Bringer

- Afterwards, Athena finds out where Odysseus has been for the past seven years: the ✨Isle of Calypso!✨ - He is not okay. - We will get to that shortly. - For now, Calypso has decided to wake Odysseus up:

"[CALYPSO] Morning, sleepyhead You've been resting for a while I swore that you were dead When you washed up on my isle Did you know you talk in your sleep? Tell me, though, who's Penelope?

[ODYSSEUS] She's my wife" - This man just woke up from being knocked out cold, and the first thing he does is talk about his wife. - I know that he was asked who she was, but one would expect him to be like: "She's my wife - where am I?/How'd I get here?/Who are you?" - But, no. He just says "She's my wife" and leaves it at that. He couldn't care less about everything else at this point. - This does not stop Calypso from ignoring this and acting like her and Odysseus are newlyweds, however. - And I just want to take a second to talk about these lyrics:

"[ODYSSEUS] I'm not your man

[CALYPSO] I'm what you want here I'm what you need here Just you and me, my love in paradise Now 'til the end of time From here on out, you're mine, all mine" - "I'm not your man" is sung the same way as "I'm just a man", which means that Odysseus is saying: "Just because I'm a man, that doesn't mean I'm a free piece of meat for you to make out with." - Meanwhile, Calypso is NOT listening. She is thoroughly convinced that she and Odysseus are in-love with each other, and that they're basically already married. - I would like to bring up that in Greek mythology, Apollo and Calypso are husband and wife. And we know that Apollo is part of the "Epic" canon, because he appears in the next song. From this, we can draw two potential conclusions:

Apollo and Calypso are not married in "Epic", either because they haven't met, or because they are divorced.

Apollo and Calypso ARE married, BUT Apollo doesn't visit his wife... for some reason.

- Odyessus decides to try to get Calypso off his back by threatening her with death, but she deflects this by revealing that she can't kill her, because she's a goddess:

"[CALYPSO] You're adorable Bow down now to the immortal Calypso, here to entertain But fear not, I bring no pain ... Under my spell, we're stuck in paradise No one can come nor go, my island stays unknown" - Calypso going from flirting with Odysseus to mockingly calling him "adorable" and telling him to bow to her actually works really well. Sure, she's in "love" with him, but she's still a goddess, and Odysseus is still a mortal man that just threatened to kill her. To her, she has to put him in his place, regardless of whether or not he's the "love of her life". - "I bring no pain" is really ironic, considering how much Odysseus does NOT want to be on this island with this woman. - I also find it interesting how Calypso and Circe both have similar things going on with the whole "secluded secret islands in the middle of the ocean" thing. Not only that, but they both had a thing for Odysseus. - Also, the line about the spell Calypso put on the island works as an explanation for why she instantly "fell in love" with Odysseus: she's lonely! - Now then: is this an excuse for what she's doing here? No. The buck stops at it being an explanation - everyone experiences loneliness, and a lot of people do some weird and not always understandable things because of it. But usually, those things don't involve ignoring other people's boundaries and forcing them to accept your company. Relationships are a two-way street, and if someone doesn't want to meet you in the middle, then that's their choice. You need to know when to back off and let it go. - After Calypso reveals who she is and that it isn't really possible for Odysseus to leave the island, he starts to panic (the way the line "No, no" is sung really sells this). - At this point, I have to provide a content warning for implications of attempted suicide, and discussion of PTSD, due to the subject matter the rest of the song deals with. If you don't want to read my analysis of the lyrics dealing with that material, please skip to the section for "God Games", or click off of this post. Your mental health is much more important than some silly essay about some random people from Greek mythology. - Furthermore, if you feel that you or someone else may need help dealing with suicidal thoughts, please contact the national suicide hotline (United States) at 1-800-273-TALK, or the national crisis hotline at 988. - Lastly, I am not a psychologist, nor am I anyone else qualified to be giving medical assistance or help with mental health. Therefore, treat anything I say in relation to mental health with skepticism, and do not use it as a substitute for real medical advice.

Now let us continue:

"[ATHENA] Seven years, she's kept you trapped, out of your control Time can take a heavy toll...

[ODYSSEUS] All I hear are screams

[CALYPSO, spoken] Ody, get away from the ledge!

[ODYSSEUS] You don't know what I've gone through You don't know what I've sacrificed Every comrade I long knew Every friend, I saw them die And all I hear are screams"

- For some reason, I didn't see Odysseus developing post-traumatic stress disorder coming sooner. I suppose that's because he was in "the thick of it" for so long. - PTSD tends to show itself after a person experiences trauma, and is being reacclimated to a safe environment/the feeling of safety (however, it's not impossible for people to experience PTSD while in the midst of a traumatic experience, specifically if that experience takes place over an extended period of time. One example of this is how some soldiers who served in the Vietnam War showed symptoms of what was once called "shell shock" while they were still serving, with one of the most prominent signs being the "one-hundred yard stare" (which we now recognize as a form of disassociation)). - I also didn't expect Odysseus wanting to kill himself. He's reached the point where he just wants to be done. It's not even about Penelope anymore. He's just... tired. So tired that he's forgotten why he let himself go through all that suffering to begin with. - Calypso telling Odysseus that "life would be so much worse/if you had died" and telling her to stay in her "open arms" absolutely hurts, especially since he wants absolutely nothing to do with her. - Odysseus desperately screaming for Athena at the end just makes the whole thing worse.

5. God Games - This is arguably the song that had the most hype before its release. It had a bunch of animatics on YouTube back when all we really had to work with were a few snippets, and that hype stuck around for almost a full year. - And after listening to the song, it's easy for me to say that the hype was definitely deserved. - Another thing that I would like to say is that this song has a really fast pace. At first, I thought this made the song feel rushed, but then I realized something: that's the point. Mr. Rivera-Herrans has stated on multiple occasions that "Epic" takes inspiration from video games. With that in mind, considering how each of the gods has their own themes, as well as how fast the song is, it makes it clear that this song is meant to be a boss rush. The song goes fast because it HAS to. There's no time to be dragging out each debate, because Athena has to make sure she's ready for the next one. - On that note, "Love in Paradise" feels like a cutscene that takes place when "switching characters" over to Athena from Telemachus. - The first verse starts us off with Athena making it clear as to why she was considered to be Zeus' daughter in the Greek canon: "Father, God King Rarely do I ask for favors Now, I'm knocking on your door With hopes to save a friendship with one who's a prisoner far from home Odysseus"

- I did not expect Athena to be sucking up to anybody, but considering how egotistical Zeus is (ironic, considering how "Thunder Bringer" implies that he doesn't have any patience for hubris), this is most likely the best move she could have made. - I also noticed an interesting change that was made in the final cut of the song in comparison to the snippets: originally, Zeus tells Athena to convince Apollo, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Ares, Hera, and him to set Odysseus free. However, in this version, he tells her to choose between persuading the aforementioned gods or him. Athena picks what is arguably the harder option. Keep this in mind. It will be important later. - The first god Athena has to go up against is Apollo: "You all know I'm a fan of catchy songs So with so many sirens gone, I think Ody's in the wrong" - Right off the bat, I was not expecting Apollo to lowkey sound like a hipster. That's cool, though. It works. - I like how Apollo being troubled by the siren deaths that took place back in "Different Beast" isn't because he doesn't approve of the murders themselves, but because the sirens were good singers. - Fun fact about the sirens: initially in Greek mythology, they were large birds with the heads of women. However, as time passed, they became replaced with mermaid-like creatures. - Luckily, Athena knows exactly how respond to such weird logic: by telling him that this actually helps the remaining sirens to stick around to sing more songs later.

"They were trying to do him worse All he did was reimburse them Now they'll tread with caution first To live another day and sing another verse"

- Now it's time for Hephaestus (and did y'all know that he's voiced by Jorge's dad? Both of his parents have shown up in this musical in important supporting roles. I think that's neat): "Trust is not given, it's forged Why should I give him my support? He sacrificed his own cohorts" - Hephaestus valuing trust and being upset with Odysseus for being willing to sacrifice his own crew members to Scylla works out so well when you consider that Aphrodite is constantly cheating on him with Ares. Why they didn't get a divorce is beyond me. The ancient Greeks divorced each other quite often, and it was easy for men to leave their wives. And there's even a myth were Hephaestus catches Aphrodite with Ares. So... yeah. Leave her, Hephaestus. You can do better. "Did you forget they failed to listen? He was betrayed and then imprisoned But if you make the right decision He can still build a future with those who miss him"

- What Athena is essentially saying here is: "Yeah, he did sacrifice his own men. But then they turned around and betrayed him right back. Nobody was innocent in that situation. But if you let him go, he can redeem himself with the people he has left." - Hephaestus (albeit begrudgingly) agrees with this. And Aphrodite, fittingly enough, is opponent number three (3): "[APHRODITE] Your little high and mighty Odysseus Claims to love his mother But let her die of a broken heart

[ATHENA] He was busy fighting

[APHRODITE] More like busy spiting the cyclops Let him feel the pain that his mother felt and rot" - I think Aphrodite's reasoning is highly flawed. Yes, the latter ten (10) years of Odysseus being missing from Ithaca could have been avoided if he didn't do the equivalent of giving the cyclops his government name, legal address, and social security number. BUT. She's acting as if he strayed off the path on purpose. Not only that, but in "The Underworld", Odysseus' mom's part of the song is all about how she died chilling in her rocking chair, willing to wait for her son for as long as it took. If anything, she died of old age, not of a "broken heart" as Aphrodite claims. - Furthermore, the part of the crew members who died heavily implies that the consciousness' of the dead in the underworld are a mixture of their memories and how they felt when they died. Hence why the crew members are confused as to why Odysseus spared the cyclops and are able to quote "Ruthlessness", and why Polities (😿) is still trying to encourage Odysseus to live with "open arms". In other words? Homegirl was not depressed when she died. Her lyrics about how much she loves her son and how she doesn't mind waiting for him is a representation of how she felt in her last moments. - TL;DR: Aphrodite is either making stuff up, doesn't truly know what happened, or is manipulating the situation to make it hard for Athena to argue with her. Hence why Athena pulls her into quick-thought. However, now Athena has another problem to deal with: "[ARES] Really Athena? These old tricks?

[ATHENA, spoken] Ares!" - Here we have another change from the snippets. In the older draft, Athena sounded more like she was in pain due to Ares interfering with her powers, but now she just sounds angry. Angry that he's interfering. - Ares' argument goes like this:

"What kind of sick coward Holds back his power While his friends get devoured? He didn't even fight Scylla Didn't even try to kill her Hides inside a wooden horse to get the job done Never handles things upfront Pathetic and weak like his son" - Before I lay into Ares' logic, I would like to explain more ancient Greek lore: both Ares and Athena were believed to be gods of warfare (and Aphrodite may have been considered to be one at some point as well). However, they both dealt with different "facets" of warfare. Athena was also considered the goddess of wisdom, and she was more associated with the strategic, "honorable" parts of war. Meanwhile, Ares was in charge of the bloody, tragic parts of war (which meant that not a whole lot of Greeks worshipped him). With this in mind, Ares' stance on Odysseus' methods makes more sense. However. That doesn't mean his reasoning isn't extraordinarily unsound: 1. "...sick coward/Holds back his power/While his friends get devoured": Odysseus willingly gave his friends over to get eaten by Scylla. Ares makes it sound like he was cowering in a corner while his friends were dying. 2. "...didn't even fight Scylla/Didn't even try to kill her": How could he?! Scylla's body has six dog heads, hence the six torches. Each of those heads, along with Scylla herself, are absolutely massive. Not only that, but the heads are attached to tentacles, meaning that they're chilling in the water most of the time. If one wanted to attack the heads, they would have to wait until they came out - and in that case, the heads are getting ready to strike. Fighting Scylla would've been a death wish. If Odysseus tried to fight her, WAY more than six people would've died that day, and it's likely that NOBODY would've been getting out of that alive. What good would a bloody, violent battle be if it was all completely pointless? 3. "Hides inside a wooden horse to get the job done": Oh, yeah. As if the Trojans would've just let the men of Ithaca inside. They had to sneak in because Troy was a walled city. If they wanted to force their way in on foot, they would have to either break down the walls or knock down the door. And while doing something like that wouldn't be impossible, they would've been at risk of giving the Trojans enough time to gather a force to confront them once they got in, making the battle take way longer and have much more casualties on the side of the Ithacans than needed, and/or they would've had to face archers shooting at them from the walls. And it seems like it would be pretty hard to break into a city if you have to hold a shield above your head the whole time to keep yourself from getting killed. 4. "Never handles things up front": Convenient how Ares just ignores the Winion confrontation, the cyclops battle, as well as the confrontation with Circe. Odysseus has no problem directly dealing with people. He's just smart enough to not get himself killed. 5. "Pathetic and weak like his son": Telemachus was never taught how to fight. He and his mother have been trying to keep caring for the suitors from putting them into poverty and from forcing Penelope to marry one of them. They have bigger fish to fry than getting into fights for no good reason. Furthermore, the one time Telemachus did get into a fight, he did so willingly, even though he lacked combat experience and was going up against someone stronger than him. He wanted to keep his mother safe that much. And he didn't even mind losing. How Ares could think he is "pathetic" is beyond me. - And don't get me started on him calling Odysseus pathetic. Please. We would be here all day. - Athena also has some choice words for Ares and Aphrodite: "Hold your tongue now His son's my friend And tell your lover that a broken heart can mend You want more bloodshed? Then set him free To get back to his homestead, he'll make everybody bleed" - GET 'EM ATHENA. TELL 'EM. TELL THEM HOW WHACK THEY ARE. - Let's move on to Hera: "[HERA] So many heroes So many tales Give me one good reason why yours should prevail

[ATHENA] He’s got the mind of a genius

[HERA] Try harder.

[ATHENA] He’s pretty skilled with words

[HERA] You can do better than that!" - One thing that can be noticed right away is that unlike the other gods Athena has faced, Hera isn't concerned about Odysseus' actions - she care more about his character, who he is as a person. - And Athena, like the gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss she is, figures out what will convince Hera after a few tries: "[ATHENA] Never once has he cheated on his wife

[HERA, spoken] ...Release him." - Before "The Circe Saga" came out, I thought Athena was lying here. After all, in the original "Odyssey", Odysseus does cheat on his wife. Twice (that we know of), actually. First with Circe (for an entire YEAR), and again with Calypso (even though being trapped on that island made him depressed, he was not above sleeping with her). - I am so glad that Jay cut both of those plotlines. While the ancient Greeks might have considered Odysseus to still be faithful, modern audiences would have had trouble buying that idea. - Furthermore, telling Hera that Odysseus never cheated on Penelope works for two reasons: 1. Hera was seen as the goddess of marriage. 2. Zeus cheated on Hera with a LOT of women, and has a LOT of illegitimate children. Hera has tried to kill some of them (see: The Labors of Heracles/Hercules) (with that said, I think its sweet how Hera's encouraging Athena instead of antagonizing her, since she's also an illegitimate child of Zeus'). - And would you look at that! Athena did it! She completed the task. Now let's see how Zeus reacts... "[ATHENA, spoken] I've played your game and won! Release him!

[ZEUS] You dare to defy me?! To make me feel shame?! No one beats me, NO ONE WINS MY GAME! THUNDER, BRING HER THROUGH THE WRINGER! SHOW HER I'M THE JUDGEMENT CALL, THE ONE WHO MAKES HER KINGDOM FALL!"

- Zeus responds to being beaten by striking his favorite daughter with lightning. - The question is: why?! She did what she was told, and she didn't cheat. Did he not expect her to win? Did he really think that the alleged goddess of wisdom wouldn't be able to outsmart her fellow Olympians? And if he didn't want her to succeed, why not add Poseidon to the lineup? He'd be enraged about Odysseus being alive at all. - Not only that, but she picked the harder option. Let me say again that Athena was supposed to be Zeus' favorite. She could've easily convinced her father by appealing to his ego and making a deal or two. But instead, she decided to increase her workload. And her reward for going above-and-beyond to prove herself is getting electrocuted? - Yeah, no. Zeus is now on the priority list for defenestration. And even then, getting yeeted out of a window might be too good for this man, once we take into account his treatment of Hera and women in general. - Ares asks if Athena is dead. A piano rendition of "Warrior of the Mind" begins to play. And based on how sad it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if it was in a minor key. It doesn't look like Athena is getting up. As a matter of fact, it looks like this might be the end. - But this is what I'm going to call a "musical fakeout". Because next thing you know, a small part of "Legendary" starts playing, and then the brass kicks in. We are back in a major key. Athena has remembered Telemachus. She has remembered that Odysseus still needs her. She remembered why she's here. And she's not taking no for an answer: "Let him go, please... Let him go..." - Even after getting struck by lighting and what should've been an easy victory, Athena still finds the strength to get up and continue pleading for Odysseus' freedom. How awesome is that? - Oh, and based on Athena's tone here and the usage of the word "please", we know now why Zeus was so angry: Athena wasn't cowering enough when she told him that she beat him (do you think the Greek gods had windows large enough for a whole person to fit out of on Mount Olympus? Just asking...) - Also, this is the first final song out of all the sagas that doesn't feel like it has an ending moment of catharsis. All the other final songs had reached a place plot-wise that made ending its particular saga there make sense, or they had a brief instrumental at the end that let you know the saga was over. But this song simply ends with Athena asking for Odysseus be set free, and... that's it. We don't know Zeus' response. I was actually shocked (pun not intended... again) by this lack of closure. But I think it was done on purpose. We're not going to be "playing" as Athena anymore. The next saga switches us back to Odysseus, so we need to know how things go on his end (that, and it kills the tension for an answer to Athena's plea to be given explicitly by Zeus, or implied by the music). Final Thoughts - This should've been called "The Angst Saga" with all the emotional damage it has caused (exhibit A: me). - I hope "King" ends with an epic 1v1 fight between Antinous and Odysseus (or Telemachus. Telemachus works too), with Antinous getting knocked out of a window. - On that note, once again, please do not confuse anything negative I may have said about the characters with the actors or crew members of "Epic". I think the cast and crew of "Epic" are all great. Do not think that me talking smack about a character or wanting to see a character face karma is me speaking ill of or wishing harm on the actors, crew, or any other real people, because it is not. Thank you. - Somehow, the "Epic" team keeps making each saga better than the last. I have played this particular one three (3) times so far, and I will do it again.

Correction 11/4/24: Apollo was in a relationship with the muse Calliope, not Calypso. I got their names mixed up while writing this. I'm sorry about that.

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illegiblehandwriting1 · 6 months ago

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HI! :D

Do you have any Four/Sky headcanons you have yet to share that you would like too?

*cracks knuckles* Do i ever. (a bunch of these will be just. straight from some of my fics but eh whatever i love them)

Four absolutely heard stories about Sky, particularly as a child. Sky was probably a cross between George Washington and, like, Odysseus to his era. Someone legendary, a hero just toeing the line between history and myth. No one's 100% certain he's real, but Four believes it. (So does Dot)

In Four's era, there is a constellation known as the Godslayer constellation. Enough said.

Sky's love of flying and his experience in piloting parallels Four's ceaseless examination of minute details. Four likes dealing in the little things that make big results, so he ends up being really fascinated with how exactly Sky's Loftwing can fly and how it evolved. And hey, giant specimen that won't eat him? Big win.

Four gets along so well with Minish engineers and scientists. It's scary.

Sky took up woodcarving as a meditative art. He couldn't focus for long enough (inattentive ADHD) so woodcarving became a way to learn to focus and complete tasks, and he just sorta fell in love. He probably learned with Gondo.

Speaking of, Gondo is probably his favorite shopkeeper at the Bazaar. Sky was totally the type of kid to pester him with questions and stories and anecdotes while he worked, and Gondo was kind and patient enough to let him. He also liked the company.

Sky and Four both seem pretty chill (one's a mom friend and one's pretty smart/inquisitive/has common sense?), which is why no one ever suspects them when they team up and pull the most ridiculous pranks. (Wild knows, though. His best friend is Flora. He knows how absolutely insane scientists are, and he and Sky regularly drag each other around on misadventures. When there is a prank war, Wild only makes Four's and Sky's favorite dishes. They scare him.)

Sky's soul doesn't display his physical scars. In Silent Realms, you can only see cracks and impacts where Guardians have gotten him. They glow.

Sky likes listening to Four ramble about cool stuff he's learned. He has no idea what Four's talking about half the time, but Four is always so excited to have someone listen that all of his walls come down and you can see the Colors more clearly. Sky adores it so much.

Speaking of, after Four Swords, i think Four came back together, but rather than being four people piloting a meatsuit together or just a single person again, he's more like a granny square blanket. He's one dude, but different characteristics will show more overtly depending on the situation, and when put under stress, the seams begin to rip until he has to use the Four Sword to split. Otherwise, he gets a super migraine and just can't function. Also, magic fucks with him.

I read a fic where Four had a stutter and that's canon to me now. Like. yeah.

Sky much prefers the application of things to the theory. He's a smart guy for sure, canonically breezed/slept through all of his classes and did well while Groose had to work his ass off, but while he was able to absorb the information easily, it just didn't engage him and he wasn't all that interested. His favorite classes were in the Sparring Hall and in the air on his Loftwing. As I said before, real ADHD guy.

Sky's Loftwing is named Bird. Sun's is Blue, and Groose's is Fast. I'm sure some kids made up cool names like Felicia and Arnold, but I love the idea that they were childhood friends before, like, middle school years, so they probably shared a single braincell.

Four ends up teaching Sky metallurgy and stuff when they get a chance to chill at the forge. Sky teaches Four woodworking/carving.

Sky is good at physics.

Four is like. SO autistic to me, what a guy, and the Chosen Hero is and has been a big special interest, so meeting Sky is like the best moment of his LIFE. He was probably trying to do some detective work with the other Links as subjects when he meets Sky and he just gets SO excited, it's adorable. Sky sees him, learns he's his successor, and immediately loves him forever. They are besties your honor.

also any version of FD!Sky

thanks for the ask!!! these two are my favorite dudes, i love them :D

#illegible answers #beloved major #lu sky #lu four #linked universe #thx for the ask!!! i'm so sorry it took so long to answer :(

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commander-shad · 6 months ago

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I am not ok, Mr. Jalapeno, you are paying for my therapy, what gives you the right to deal a pain so deep

Spoilers ahead!

21. "Suffering" and 22. "Different Beast"

• JAY, JAY, YOU SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE NO SIRENS IN EPIC

• "The things I do for you, Penelope..."

*shoots*

• Well, Odysseus really lives up to "Monster" right now, huh

• Damn brutal

• And it only gets worse from here

23. Scylla

• OF COURSE EURYLOCHUS OPENED THE BAG, THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS EURYLOCHUS

• Having watched the livestream, the animatic was *brutal*, damn

• Scylla singing about how her and Odysseus are the same and Odysseus basically agrees, hooooooooooooo

24. Mutiny

• Ok, from now you will be able to tell just how pissed I am at Eurylochus

• My dude, now you care about the men? You were urging Odysseus to leave the pig crew behind last time something like this happened???

• Besides, in what way is a giant sea monster the same as a witch? Tell me what would you do, Eurylochus, really

• no I am not an Odysseus apologist, what made you think that-

• "Et tu Brutus?" moment

• my whump writer brain is tingling-

• Ody nickname canon??? (It wouldn't work in Greek, source: I am Greek, but shhh, I love using it too)

• THE "LUCK RUNS OUT" AND "KEEP YOUR FRIENDS CLOSE" PARALLELS, WHY

• I don't blame you for being pissed Ody, I would be too

25. Thunderbringer

• Zeus' performance was great, no comments

• "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose

All you can choose is whose"

I can see that now, damn

• "... Captain?"

"I have to see her..."

"But we will die...!"

"... I know."

Jay, when I GET YOU-

• The crew: *betrays Odysseus in the worst ways possible*

Also the crew when Odysseus chooses himself and not them:

• I saw this post here on Tumblr about "what if when the crew was charging at Odysseus (like in the animatic), he was awaiting with open arms", I AM NOT OK

• That first trailer of the Thunder Saga was the ending of the saga! I love it when that happens

Hey, remember Tiresias' "I see portrayals of betrayal"?

Let's do a betrayal counter!

(will include Ody's atrocities because they count as betrayal methinks)

• Eurylochus opening the bag all the way back in "Keep Your Friends Close"

ding!

• Odysseus sacrificing six men to get past Scylla

ding!

• Eurylochus turning on Odysseus and the crew stabbing Odysseus in the back

ding!

• Eurylochus killing the cows

ding!

• Odysseus choosing to let all his men die (can't blame him tbh)

ding!

That's five whole betrayals and two of them happening in a single song, dang

All in all, I want to give Odysseus a hug, he's needed it since the Troy saga jrnejdj

#epic the musical #epic spoilers #thunder saga spoilers #epic the musical spoilers #epic the thunder saga #epic the thunder saga spoilers #shad babbles

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fumiku · 3 months ago

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Epic the musical/Odysseus Laios AU do you see the vision.

Laios going to war, and on the way back his interest & perceptiveness when it comes to monsters and beasts and inhuman mythical beings progressively made him the leader because he always knows what to do about the mythical obstacles the best… Going from black sheep to leader, getting increasingly high on the power and validation and bloodlust and freedom to do what he wants and indulge his interest and be monstrous all while obviously going from hardship to hardship. Different Beast COME ON. HE IS THE MAN-MADE MONSTER. HE IS A DIFFERENT BEAST NOW HE IS THE ONE WHO FEASTS NOW HE WILL TAKE NO MORE SUFFERING FROM YOU. -infodumps smugly about everything he knew about sirens and the plan he thought of to trick them that worked-. KILL THEM ALL. (and to ressource efficient be eat them all, ofc ofc)

AU where Laios never left the military and they suddenly got called to handle an emergency & go to war against monsters and he progressively rises in rank bc of the strategies he comes up with in the fire of action that he tells his comrades and his skills get more and more recognized and valued. Laios rising in power and status and approval but still feeling out of place, feeling alive the most when on the battlefield and seeing monsters kill and be killed. General Laios Touden, anti-monster tactician specialist. Maybe eventually rise to king Laios as well… The bad end way to get there, in a way… Maybe in the timeline of canon it’s just that the Island dungeon amongst others overflow since Laios isn’t in the party, and nations start being torn apart by monsters and war. The black witch, herald of the apocalypse……… That Laios defeats and puts to the sword, of course.

#Laios’ empathetic logical reasoning w monsters getting weaponized…. Yum #It could follow the odyssey as closely or far as they want it’d still be interesting methinks… obvi i took liberties here but #Laios touden #epic the musical au #Dungeon meshi au #Alternate exploration of Laios where everything feels bleaker……

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sunny6677 · 17 days ago

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So this is some ideas for how Penelope, Hermes, and Telemachus would react to Sunny being bullied in the Heir of Ithaca AU?? Based on a tarot reading I did?

@rebootgrimm

So basically I asked the question of—if Sunny was an actual character, or if there's a universe out there where she's an actual character, and if there's one where the Heir of Ithaca AU is canon—how different is her dynamic with different characters, and even the reactions the characters have to her being bullied by Antinous if he bullies her at all? And the descriptions I'm about to provide here are basically the answers I got. The drawing is sketches I made based on the answers.

So, regarding her dynamic with Antinous first: Apparently, Antinous tries to be nice to Sunny at first because he needs the throne, and though she's not technically family, she's still important to the royal family, so he tries to gain her trust at first. He's obviously not successful—however, due to an apparent incident that occurs, he starts treating her more like shit as time goes on and shows his true colors. Which is basically making her do things for him (since he's a guest and she too has to follow Xenia)—the main vision I got in my head being of her serving him food and him being all disrespectfully smug about it, getting her into situations where he lies about something—or manipulates something so well to the point where she had no choice but to keep quiet. Sunny is apparently very annoyed with him due to this and frustrated because she genuinely doesn't know what to do, as she feels she 'can't' tell anyone (possibly due to being afraid of what would happen if she did? It wasn't clear, but I got the feeling it was because she was almost afraid of what'd he'd do if she said anything, or what consequences it could lead to). However, he ends up becoming more aggressive as time goes on, and while he didn't willingly go to her or cause trouble at first (I got the feeling he only ever caused trouble if he saw her, or if she did something to piss him off—but usually tried avoiding her or left her alone), he starts willingly going to her to mess with her after a while, and his lies and manipulation become even worse, possibly leading into actual physical aggression like in Little Wolf. Which starts to make Sunny very fucking frightened of him. I get the feeling THIS is about when it's eventually found out? Or perhaps like a little before it starts getting more aggressive. At least during some point in the gradual shift to Antinous being more aggressive—the reason for his sudden increased aggression being his frustration with Penelope refusing him and his advances.

Telemachus: What I got from the reading and another reading I did—is that he cares for Sunny a lot and tries his best to be a good older brother figure to her. He constantly protects her, looks after her, and loves her as his sister despite them not being related by blood. But at the same time, there's many stresses—like the kingdom itself, Odysseus being gone, and the suitors wrecking the palace on a day to day basis and trying to hurt his mom, etc. He tries to keep her oblivious or protected from these stresses, but struggles immensely—and is insistent that she doesn't worry about it and tries distracting her from it. However, whenever he eventually finds out about Antinous (I get the feeling he'd possibly be the first one she'd tell? I had a mild vision of her going to him and telling him reluctantly, possibly because she doesn't have a choice but to do so). Telemachus becomes pissed very quickly, and heavily frustrated—possibly from being bullied by the suitors for so long making him furious at the idea of them even treating his sister the same way. The laws of Xenia do limit what he can do about it, and this frustrates him more—but he tries doing what he can about it. Whatever he does or tries to do in the midst of his anger, which I picture as him talking to Penelope or insisting something is done about it to her—Sunny pulls him back as he's talking to Penelope and tries talking him out of doing anything. This leads to them arguing a bit because he wants to protect her, but he possibly gives in after a bit, very very reluctantly—and they both kinda make it up to eachother with a slightly emotional talk where Telemachus insists he just doesn't want bad things to happen to her and just wants to protect her.

Penelope: Penelope is very motherly to Sunny, and is seen as a wise figure by Sunny. She's very stern and admirable to Sunny, and tries teaching her things and being there for her as a parental figure. Sunny is mildly intimidated by her, but does care about her, and Penelope cares about her the same. Penelope also provides most of her education, and I'm also getting like a mild vision of them weaving together?? So maybe she teaches her how to weave or something. Penelope maybe can't spend much free time with her after a while due to the duties of being a queen, but tries to be there for Sunny as much as she can. However, when she finds out about Antinous, she's just as pissed as Telemachus is—if not more. She does know she can't do much about it due to the laws of Xenia however, so while frustrated, she insists to Telemachus there really isn't much that can be done, and that they have to be smart about this. She's more focused on comforting Sunny too, so after Telemachus has his little talk with Sunny, she comforts Sunny (I have a mild vision of her sitting in front of a bed Sunny is sitting on and maybe even bandaging her injuries and taking care of her—so she probably just takes care of her afterward and let's her talk some more about it). And while she can't do much, she defintely let's the suitors and Antinous know she's angry about it just with a stern glare alone.

Hermes: ..so apparently Hermes & Sunny have a complicated dynamic both here and in the universe that I consider 'canon' to Sunny's story? At least that's what I feel. Hermes actively cheers Sunny on throughout her story and is there to help her out on her journey, and tries to help her power through the whole thing. He does genuinely care about her, and she cares about him too. But some of the ways he acts toward her feel a bit frustrating on her end sometimes (like telling her to persevere or just encouraging her when she's clearly in distress & more in need of comfort, trying to distract her from some of her emotions and keep her uplifted—which isn't a bad thing inherently—but he is kind of ignoring her emotions that are regular for a teen child to have when they've been forced on a journey for twenty years fighting monsters and being under the care of a war general). I get the mental images of like Hermes side hugging Sunny, holding her awkwardly when she says she wants a hug or when she says yes to him offering a hug, talking to her happily, and encouraging her in a serious manner while she's crying from the distress of another incident that just happened, etc etc. And in this AU specifically, whenever he finds out according to the tarot reading—he's even more furious. Like, I can see a image of Sunny telling him in my head, and him going dead silent in a furious type of way, and immediately getting more stern and asking more about it. He's angry that he didn't know about it for such a long time, doesn't understand why she didn't tell him (I'm thinking because he doesn't understand why she just didn't say anything regardless of what empty threats Antinous might have made?? Probably Hermes thinks it wouldn't have mattered anyway since he's a God and can kick Antinous' ass), and because of the fact that Sunny's current family can't do much due to Xenia. I imagine maybe he angrily consults with them to try finding out what to do, and even possibly pressures for there to be something done—though again, there's not much that can be done. Which makes him even more angry. However, if he does do something about it himself, I got that he apparently comes to Antinous in the guise of a hooded old man with a cane—and offers him a 'gift' that's actually a curse in disguise. Antinous possibly agrees to take the gift after treating him like shit, or even smugly agreeing to take the gift. Though what the curse is, I can't say—but either way, it DEEPLY inconveniences Antinohs and maybe even hurts him. Hermes probably gives him an ominous monologue about why he shouldn't have done what he did while watching whatever the curse does be inflicted on him—before either leaving, or watching until the 'transformation' is done.

That's all I got, but I can make more posts like these if y'all want.

Here's the sketches—

#epic #epic s/i

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prismarts · 2 months ago

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Hiiii Prism. Hey so. Wanna introduce me to Epic The Musical???? I see it on my dash all the time now but I never bothered to look up what it actually is. On purpose lol. Because at first I totally skipped over it thinking it was some Percy Jackson fanart, and then I thought it really wasn't that big of a deal, and now it seems to be a HUGE deal to so many people on Tumblr. And I enjoy the kinda not-in-that-fandom-adjacent tea-sipping vibe veeeeeery much. So. I literally do NOT know what it is. Is it like Hamilton??? Is it a Percy Jackson fanwork??? Is it neither???? You have now been given the absolute power over whatever you let me know. Because I have no clue.

Go wild. (Please haha.)

OH HI FRIEND!! HI BAB!!!

Okay okay uhhh finedje. I NEVER had to pitch something to someone without the ability to just physically sit them down and like show them before cause I'm generally bad at explaining things but LEMME TRY!!!

So so, Epic the Musical is a musical concept detailing the Odyssey that is being made and like chopped up into 9 sagas! We have 8 of them now so one more to go!!!

Made by the wonderful, and very silly, Jorge Rivera-Herrans, Mr. Jalapeño himself. He wrote it with the theme of ruthlessness in mind, as in when do we adopt the philosophy of being ruthless to other people and when do we show kindness and mercy. (I may be explaining this wrong, Jorge has so many little videos explaining his process about creating Epic, i might leave a link so you can hear from the man himself)

It's not like a Percy Jackson fanmade thing, I know Jorge has read the Odyssesy and is essentially adapting it into this musical in his own way (I say this cause some people just can't comprehend it being its own thing as an adaptation). I don't think Jorge has read PJO? I could be wrong.

It could be compared to Hadestown the Musical? BUT THE ONLY SIMILAIRITY IS THE LIKE ADAPTATION OF A GREEK MYTH INTO A MUSICAL, OTHERWISE THE GENRE AND STUFF ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

I will uhhh keep note that Epic takes heavy inspiration from video games and anime which has the musical take several creative liberties and not be a one to one of the actual Odyssesy. One example of like the video game inspirations is every saga having some sort of boss battle esque song at the end, as if you are going through a video game, level by level.

And the anime inspirations are heavy in the ways Jorge uses iconic anime imagery or like I guess visual tropes in his references whenever he commissions artists to do animatics or animations.

THAT'S ANOTHER FUN THING TOO!!! Aside from the thousands of fan animatics that come out with each saga, Jorge also just commissions art, animatics and animations from artists with each new saga that he'll debut during the album's live watchparty where we listen to the whole musical up till the latest saga. So we have like fan animatics but also in a way, canon animatics and animations on how things go down.

He puts so much care into the music and the like themes and and uhhh musical terms escaping my head but he carries over chracters and their musical motifs so well throughout the story.

He also uhhh does open auditions to EVERYONE like ANYONE could audition for Epic with just leads to so many hidden gems of singers and songwriters that he just hypes up so much, he hypes up their work in Epic and their own personal musical endeavors.

Some of the amazing cast are: Teagen Earley who plays Athena, TROY who plays Hermes, Steven Dookie as Polites, Talya Sindel as Circe, Barbara Wangui as Calypso. Of course, Jorge himself plays Odysseus and he is also just incredible vocally.

HE ALSO uhhh casts his family members in this which is super fun and wholesome and I won't spoil who they play cause its such a fun treat to discover as you listen.

Aaaaaaaaaaa what else-

It is also very silly, we get quite a few silly moments and I really enjoy that. Jorge is really good with sprinkling the silly moments in between the songs and just delivering such a good experience. A lot of the silly moments just become memes and that's also a fun time.

I just love the way he adapted the musical in this very very unique and amazing thing, it's this phenomenon of like story telling and music and also just a collaboration of art between not just the cast who come from so many places but also the HUGE community and I think that's the most special part, y'know?

I think that's all? Imma try to link some of Jorge's shorts and videos here just for fun and because he might explain things better lol.

youtube

Thank you for the ask bab! Hope this helps explain, I'm not that good at it lol xD 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙 *hugs*

#prism answers asks #epic the musical #jorge rivera herrans

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sugar-and-spite · 2 months ago

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finally watched the vengeance saga and i am being so, so normal about this. spoiler rambles below the cut. i watched a bunch of different animatics for most of the songs so there will be comments about both the actual songs & official animatics, plus the other fan animatics i saw

not sorry for loving you

first off. CALYPSO. MY GIRL. i'm so glad jorge did her right with this song. i remember adoring calypso in the odyssey, and while epic definitely put her in a more manipulative and antagonistic role than i remember her having, she has a reason. i felt like love in paradise kind of rushed her entire character and i'm so glad she got fleshed out more here.

while she is being manipulative, i definitely don't agree with the people saying she's doing it on purpose. she's been alone for a hundred years, of course she'd be lonely. also like. she's literally never known any other people to know whether she's being manipulative or not, so

also i watched the most animatics for this one and calypso being skinny feels so weird to me, she's at least chubby imo

also extremely funny that jorge got gigi to animate for this one for the stream. gigi being known for having the best circe saga animatics and jorge is like "hm you know who i want to animate this other woman who's manipulating odysseus?" incredible.

and there's this which i said to my bf:

dangerous

"six hundred men, six hundred dead under my command, 'cause i had one goal in mind... [silence]" OKAY YEAH I DIDN'T NEED MY HEART. FUCK.

HERMES IS BACK, BABY!

ximena natzel has the best hermes animatics, the official hermes is good but ximena's is better, if you haven't seen ximena's animatics for "wouldn't you like" and "dangerous" go watch them NOW

they canonized the fluffy winions, i'm not even sure who first came up with that design for them (mircsy was the first one i saw) but they're wonderful and amazing

hermes is just amazing and all of his songs are amazing and this is amazing (can you tell i have a favorite song from vengeance saga)

i love that they also included actual sirens in the official animatic!! the birds with women's faces, those are what sirens actually look like in the myths and mermaid-sirens are more common to see nowadays but it's not The Og, and i'm so so happy they used og sirens (this made me giddy in the same way all the "ruthlessness" animatics with horses in them made me giddy, little-known myth details my beloved)

the callbacks to "keep your friends close"! both musically and lyrically! and the callback to "wouldn't you like" with hermes going "don't thank me" and "good luck!" jorge is always on point with the callbacks

charybdis

took a couple listens for me to really vibe with this, it's kinda filler but that's fine they can't all be bangers

someone pointed out this is the only song we have so far that's 100% solo odysseus with no background vocals or other characters so that's neat

feels like this could've been longer? or fleshed out more? it feels kinda abrupt. but there's gotta be some losers they can't all be winners

get in the water

i need to hear this sung by a woman right now actually so i can be equally bisexual about the original and a female cover.

honestly i don't think i had a single thought in my head through the entire song besides damn. holy SHIT. holy shit this one is good. this is so fucking good.

i lied i had a singular coherent thought (on the second watch): it's subtle, but i think there's a musical callback to the end of "god games" during odysseus's part. when he's begging poseidon to let him go, the music is really similar to when athena begs zeus to let him go at the end of "god games."

six hundred strike

hoooooooly shit. oh my god. what the fuck. not to be bisexual but -

(hottest odysseus has ever been)

he has the power of (the wind) god and anime on his side

with the power of friendship and this jetpack he found -

the callbacks

"you can't kill me." "exactly." HOTTEST ODYSSEUS HAS EVER BEEN

NEXT TO MY WIFE

oh my god. holy fuck. oh my god

anyway this has been rey's (lack of) thoughts about the vengeance saga thanks for joining me i'm so, so normal about this musical

#rey rambles #epic the musical #epic the vengeance saga

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tayas-words · 3 months ago

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Seduce Me headcanons

What kind of family will they have?

I’m so happy you guys like my stuff so far! I’m working on a small fic that I’m gonna release tmr! And for those of you who are here for shadowhunters or marauders, I promise I’ll get to those fandoms more too!!

ALSO! just an fyi, technically all of the boys have their own versions of Mika (with different names) but I’m just using Mika as it’s easier lol and obviously when the specific boy you’re reading is with his Mika, the boys are with their canonic wives from SM2

James

When James and Mika first find out they’re pregnant, they are terrified, rightfully so, how does a demon and a human have a child? And to add on to that, James didn’t have a good father figure growing up so he’s scared shitless of becoming like his father.

In the end, they have 3 kids; oldest is a boy named Daniel , then twin girls named Penelope and Clara. they chose Daniel as a symbol of their appreciation for Diana, seeing as they didn’t want to have more than one Diana. Penelope came from Mika’s love of reading and history, named after the cunning wife of Odysseus. Clara was named after the pairs love of theatre, specifically the Nutcracker Ballet, which is where James proposed to Mika.

While at first James was scared out of his mind when they had Daniel, he was so scared that after he held him in the delivery room he barely held him for a month after, he was scared to do something wrong. Once he eventually got into the habit of reading to him and playing with him, he calmed down, and Daniel loved his father from the moment he set eyes on him, same with the twins.

James takes them all on vacations as much as possible, he tries as hard as he can to be the fun dad, but Mika reminded him that if he’s too lieint they’ll walk all over him. He helps with homework as much as he can, even if they know the work it’s just his way of spending time with them since he’s at work a lot.

Erik

Much like James, Erik was very scared when he found out Mika was pregnant, but the fear quickly left him as he pampered her throughout her entire pregnancy.

What scared Erik more than finding out she was pregnant, was finding out she was pregnant with twins; a boy and a girl. Erik knew the moment he saw his children, he was going to love them equally and never make the other feel like a spare. Their boy is named Reid and their Cadence. Obviously both Mika and Erik are very big music lovers, as are their children.

Erik spoils his family relentlessly, making sure nobody ever feels alone or unwanted, he makes them food, takes them on trips, or even makes them clothes. He is one of the brothers that has a constant nightmare of his father (despite him being dead) coming and taking the children like he did with Mika, so everytime he has that nightmare he makes sure Mika is still next to him before rushing into their rooms, making sure their still tucked in safe and sound before kissing their foreheads and sitting in the hallway for a few minutes to calm down.

Sam

Sam was by far the most scared to be a father, not only did he most have a good father, he felt as though because he was going to be a horrible father, it got so bad that for the first half of her pregnancy, Sam worked overtime at the police station (which caused some issues) before Damien literally smacked sense into him.

Sam and Mika only have one child, and her name is Diana. They both agreed that once they figured out it was a girl, they were going to honour Diana and the sacrifice she made that cost her her life.

Sam cried during and after the birth, because he was watching his wife in pain and then because of the small premature little baby that he held so close as she cried and cried.

Sam is an extremely protective father, like over the top but at the same time, if his daughter wanted to have a party and drink while in school (don’t underage drink kids) he would tell her exactly what time he’d be leaving and when he’d back from his shift that night and where the key to the alcohol cabinet was. He loved spending time with his girls, they even got him to watch rom-coms which he didn’t end up hating. He spoils them endlessly with anything he can give them. He teaches her (and his nieces and nephews) how to defend themselves even though they’re all demons.

Matthew

Matthew is probably the the second most scared, like he didn’t have a good father figure and then turns out his mother is a psycho, so he’s beyond scared of thinking of becoming like either of them.

Matthew is able to give Mika every single one of her cravings, no matter the time of day, if he can do it he will do it.

They ended having three kids; two boys and a girl. Oldest the girl, her name is Marinette, second is a boy named Malachi, youngest boy is named Milo.

Matthew loves his kids, whenever Mika has anything, he is more than happy to take them on little adventures. He loves sitting them down and letting them “help him” bake and they are his little taste testers.

Damien

Damien didn’t know how to feel, when it happened, even though he couldn’t read her mind, he knew she was terrified, so he did his best to comfort her. Eventually, they were both excited for it. Children always seemed drawn to Damien so as scared as he was, he knew it would be okay.

Two months prematurely, Mika gave birth to twins; two girls. Twin A was called Anika and twin B was called Genevieve. Mika and Damien were so scared when she went into labour, Damien was scared he was going to lose either Mika or his twins or both.

Damien does absolutely everything he can to be present and show how much he loves his family. There’s not much he can do, he’s not the richest but he makes trips as fun as possible.

#seduce me damien #seduce me sam #seduce me james #seduce me the demon war #seduce me the otome #seduce me erik #seduce me matthew

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dootznbootz · 1 year ago

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I absolutely love your head canons about Water Wife™️, but I’m curious about what head canons you have for Odysseus (aka. #1 Water Wife™️ simp) 🤔

I have so manyyyyyyyy!!! :D

For both, of course, and I'm not even done with Penelope never will be There's some I probably have mentioned before but bleh :D I'll put it out anyways.

Odysseus is a "pretty boy" and he's able to balance "masculine" and "feminine" beauty perfectly and he knows it and uses it. (When you're aspec, you tend to "study" what makes people "pretty". To understand it as, "What's the big deal?". That's what he does) I knew someone in theatre who when playing different characters for acting, the more "sweet and goofy" one (Seymour, Little Shop of Horrors) and the "rugged, handsome" one (Prince from Into the Woods) and he looked like different people and realized it was because he was able to really shift his jaw around and also just really expressive and Odysseus USES this. ALL the time. Paris is a more feminine pretty boy while Menelaus is a more masculine pretty boy but Odysseus is a perfect in-between. Homer doesn't stfu about Odysseus and he had multiple people wanting him. When he didn't want anyone but Penelope

What "mars" his beauty is that Odysseus bites at his lips a lot. Usually chapped and ripped up.

I kind of plan for it to be kind of unknown whether Sisyphus or Laertes is his dad. He REALLY takes after his mom in so many ways. He's a lil jealous of Ctimene as while both take after Mom, she has Dad's nose and eye color. It's something that means a lot to him that his dad loves him regardless. And it REALLY bothers him when people try and bring up Sisyphus being his dad. It makes him sincerely happy seeing Tyndarius loving all his kids even though there's a CLEAR difference on who's whose. (Omfg imagine if he could talk to his mom about Calypso and Circe as what she went through with Sisyphus 😭Maybe Penelope trying to get advice from Laertes!!!)

He actually couldn't really grow a beard until after the war. Partially because having Water Wife, as having a nymph/nymphborn for a lover tends to make your life longer AND you look younger. (Odysseus doesn't mind being beardless because he will not give up water wife loving :3 ) he was just kind of pretty smooth-shaven (not shaven but just no beard til later). Penelope teases him about it and when she does he rubs his face against hers.

Part of the reason why Odysseus tells Penelope to "only remarry when Telemachus grows a beard", knowing that A.) Odysseus left and still didn't have a beard, and B.) Telemachus is 37.5 naiad; naiads, in order to keep "slippery", don't grow a lot of body hair in general. He's hoping that his son will take after him and take forever to grow a beard like he did because he would try forever to get home. Penelope even teases him that he still doesn't have one so that's a silly request and that's the point. "I will never stop trying to come back to you. He and I will likely remain beardless forever." (it's a little funky for him when he finally grows one by the end of Troy. He's thinking "...Shit. Telemachus, stay baby-faced for your dad please.")

He tries to say his favorite poems/epics/myths are the ones of Heracles but it's actually Psyche's myth. Not giving up because you're so devoted? That you want to see your person/people again?? RINGING ANY BELLS. (Also Baucis and Philemon, because Xenia is very important to him and to grow old with his love to then get turned into olive trees together?? That's his LIFE GOAL.)

I really love the thought of him and Eumeaus being super close. Like he actually wasn't that close to Polites and Eurylochus until mid-teens but Eumeaus was raised beside him and Ctimene.

Demisexual/demiromantic/aspec: Like he didn't really get it until Penelope, at least not fully. And then he's just hit by a truck. They were in the garden when they first met (no details yet! But she just knocks him on his ass) and there were beehives and beekeepers around and he turns so red and is so gobsmacked that Penelope freaked out thinking he was stung by a bee and was dying. (being Naiad she's dealt with this before) I wouldn't say "love at first sight" as he didn't really think anything until she called him out. And she's the only one he's felt.

Mentioned before, but the Boar scar caused fertility issues. He's...very ripped up. He blames his asexuality/demisexuality on it and it's a surprise that he can run so well (Hermes' descendant and Athena saved him...just not "all of him".) Penelope had some fertility issues too (she has a lot of siblings so she's really sad about it) but he always took the blame and always made a point of "I won't take a concubine. I don't want one and I'm the reason why we can't have children. It wouldn't change anything." Though his leg does get stiffer in joints and the skin is tight when he's older. Water Wife™ helps with that. :D

Since it took a while before they had Telemachus, he had... a lot of toys made in preparation even though it took awhile. Crib too but wasn't used for a while. Telemachus luckily has many keepsakes and gifts from his dad :') and yes he carried them everywhere. (There was a branch off their "nest" that Telemachus messed around on too much when he was around 8 and it broke :'). When Odysseus comes back, Telemachus is ashamed and says sorry and Odysseus is just happy he wasn't hurt. (OUCHIE)

He actually had the Trojan horse idea for YEARS (like year 5) but everyone thought it was "dishonorable" and he was SO MAD. (also yeah, he remembered all the toys he made his son and that's how he got the idea) It is a "TOLD YOU SO!" moment when they win.

One thing I love about him is that he really is "all or nothing" in many ways. or a "0 to 100 very quickly". He does NOT let even minor insults slide. He goes all out and over the top for the people he loves and the people he hates. like, he DOES care. He loves as much as he hates. Like he's an asshole but there's always a reason (honestly I think he does have his rules. and they ARE consistent I think. probably will write an essay on it soon)

Honestly, I know a lot of people think "oh familiar stranger" when they get back and yeah, they look a little different but they still think the same in many ways. Homer ends with them still being like-minded. I think Penelope and Odysseus had the feeling of "feels like there was almost no years of separation" as they can be in-sync and "are like they were before". They're older, wiser, but he still does the funny voice that makes her laugh. She's still ticklish on her neck. So much is the same. It'll be fun to learn what's different.

Except the PTSD.

And Odysseus is basically just trying to force himself to be "normal". He's bottling things up but not pushing away. Some war stuff he's shared as there were games and some fun stories (also not as recent) But he doesn't share Circe or Calypso with Penelope at first. And he definitely doesn't want Telemachus to know. But he's not pushing away. If anything he wants them even closer than ever. And doesn't really like them being away from him.

He usually has to be the one to make "first contact" or "first touch" (don't go up behind him...ever) but he is very physically affectionate so...kind of works.

Though it saddens Penelope, as this is all Telemachus knew, he's not too affected. As to him, Odysseus is already so loving and wonderful to him and so he just sees his moments of war flashbacks and fear and his violent outbursts against others are just... Dad. He knows it's strange but no one's perfect. He's fine most of the time otherwise. He kisses his and his mother's cheeks and is trying to learn pottery from him. But Penelope knows this is not normal. Plus he's sharing some things with her that he would rather keep hidden from Telemachus forever.

Before she could always just hold him and basically do whatever and he melts. She now needs to go slow and always give some sort of warning. He usually meets her halfway, so that helps. Something he did before but...There is so much lost and that needs time.

Slowly reaching her hand out to his face? He grabs it and leans into it. She didn't need to go slow before. She opens her arms? He flops into it. Before, she could've grabbed his hand and basically pulled him into her.

He always has to be in control now and he's mad at himself for it.

"That's your son. Why did your son's joyful shouts make you think of the screams of the young men in war. Your son is fine. There's no war here. You made sure of that. That's your wife. Your wife that you've longed for 20 fucking years and you still wake up weeping and think you're with the goddesses again. Hold her. Let her hold you. Stop crying. Let her hold you. That's what you want."

He's like a cat who digs their claws into you to keep you close to them. He's angry at himself for getting scared/upset and...in a way HAS to let it be known that even though he's a mess, he NEEDS them. Always has.

He can't be the little spoon anymore. He can't have her sleep/rest on top of him anymore. He can lay on her and be the big spoon but as he was basically a "doll" for Calypso and manipulated and tricked by Circe, there are certain things he can't have done to him. If he gets in his funks, he sometimes has to have it where he holds her and she's completely still before he gives her the go-ahead to hold/touch him in return. Sometimes he has to quiz her questions only she would know. And then he just cries. He won't talk about it for a while. :')

As he and Laertes shared some of the same "adventures" with the same beings, they bond over that :D Also, with his older cousin Jason? "I don't like him. >:( He always would fuck up my hair by messing with it."

In their Early marriage, they tried each other's "hobbies". Aka Odysseus tried weaving and Penelope tried woodcarving. Two of their most prized possessions is a fucking ugly wooden duck and a little blanket that is uneven and has some holes in it. When he doesn't see his blanket next to her duck when he returns, he's worried and a bit sad but then Penelope reveals that she sleeps with it :') the dye is faded and some parts are clearly rewoven so it won't fall apart.

#I did a LOTTT #and this ain't even all of them but idk wanna reveal some in fics :D #I like studying these goobers :D #Mad rambles #shot by odysseus #my headcanons #ask #fangirlofallthefanthings #I'm basing a lot of this on my own recovery and shit :D #idk feels nice in a way??? and honestly? accurate as yeah :D Everyone's different but so many moments of 'I know what you're #doing. I did it too.' and yeah :P #Telemachus helps more with the War PTSD and Penelope is the SA PTSD...Dad is a bit of both :')#tw ptsd

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