#Obito was right to want to destroy the system

[malifiquemakes]

New blood, old wounds

[theheirofthesharingan]

Came across a rather unhinged take on Itachi and Sasuke the other day and I had to write about this because it's a widely accepted opinion in the Sasuke fandom. Although this post is not targeted towards any individual, but if anyone sees this and wants to take credit and feel offended, you're welcome to do that. This is going to be a long and penal-heavy post (kind of), so brace yourselves. And read it at your own risk. xD

A most common sentiment among Sasuke fans is that if he had the chance, he would rather fight for the clan than protect Itachi, because Sasuke is not "stupid" like Itachi and would never kill his own parents. And if he had the chance to go back, he would kill the "Konoha bootlicker Itachi along with Danzo and Hiruzen" because he's not stupid.

So, you're telling me that Sasuke, upon learning the truth, more powerful, more mature, with more support from his peers would not make the decisions that Itachi at the age of 12 surrounded by shitty people did. Aren't you a little intellectual for having an opinion like this? Because absolutely it was his fault he had terrible parents, his best friend committed suicide right in front of him, and two old geezers took advantage of his naive philosophy, which hardly had any time to mature because he was considered too mature for his age — mature enough to handle things in his parents' absence as seen from Itachi looking after Sasuke the night of the Kyuubi attack.

Wilder is that the people who talk shit about Itachi for killing his clan members cheer and support Sasuke's genocidal goals. Because for sure, that totally didn't mean what happened to Sasuke would definitely happen to other people as well and that too at Sasuke's hands. And once he came to his senses he would have nothing but regrets.

"But he didn't actually do it."

I wonder why...

Oh.

Apparently, Itachi, after dying, magically, manipulated Sasuke into becoming Konoha bootlicker too. :( What the hell, Itachi? How could you do this?

I always find it amusing when these people try to trivialize Itachi and his love for Sasuke along with Sasuke's love for him, because he "was fighting for the justice of his clan, so he would never acknowledge Itachi's sufferings and it's just Itachi fans making the shit up to justify him" and "All that Itachi did was unforgivable so Sasuke is just delusional to see him as a good guy."

Is that it, though? Because, when Sasuke confronts Itachi during their battle, he does question him.

But once he learns Itachi's truth he ends up taking a different path.

He's in Obito's lab. The same lab where he's kept the eyeballs he stole after massacring his clan.

Confronting Team 7, his first thought is still Itachi, then his parents, then his clan. Does he think the massacre was right? Nope. But unlike most of his fans, he's angry at the right people. He understands Itachi was a victim of the same system he is. In fact, only he understands Itachi is also a victim, because the system doesn't consider Itachi any victim, and Itachi himself doesn't view himself as one either.

If he had to sacrifice the whole world for his brother, he would do it in a heartbeat. He was willing to do it, for Itachi and Itachi alone.

When he meets Itachi again during the war, he is hurt and angry, but his concern is still Itachi. They made you suffer. I'm going to destroy them because they made you go through so much pain. He's reminiscing what Obito said about Itachi.

and

When he's speaking to Itachi, he again says he's going to destroy the village for causing him so much pain.

He thinks his brother is perfect.

He's stabbed by Madara. But all he thinks about is not dying because of Itachi. He was close to dying twice in the story, and both the times he had Itachi as the last thought.

He wanted to live because of Itachi. So he could create the world where no other Itachi was ever sacrificed.

At every occasion he's weighing Itachi over anyone and everyone else. That, to be brutally honest, includes his clan and his parents.

He's still (rightfully) angry at the village and sympathizes with his clan. But he understands people like Danzo and Obito were the ones responsible for the pain Itachi and his family went through.

Furthermore.. Sasuke to Itachi haters:

It must be hard being a Sasuke fan who despises Itachi because these folks have to create lies and mythology, ignore the existing canon for their headcanons and fanfictions they create in their heads and blame the author for being a "terrible writer" because, of course, the man who wrote these characters had no idea what he was writing anyway. :)

Sasuke would absolutely sacrifice the whole world for Itachi as would Itachi for him. They loved each other the most and there's no denying that.

[theuchihalawyer]

Thoughts on Obito?

Sorry if this is too long lol, I just really like him and I despise how he's misunderstood

Obito is actually my second favorite character. Even when I didn't know he was Tobi/Madara disguise yet, when I watched Kakashi past, I grew fond of Obito immediately.

First of all, what I don't like is that he's reduced to a "simp" by the fandom. It's like, Obito is really misunderstood, for me, Obito is brillant, well-written. For me, he has even more depth and matters more than other popular characters (?)

But well, Obito was a child soldier, a 13/12 year old kid in the middle of an ongoing war. He was ostracized for being below the standards of the Uchiha clan, he acknowledged this, calling himself "the black sheep of the Uchiha", he always got surpassed by others and had no family but team Minato.. where Kakashi didn't even respect him until he was in the middle of dying, and always turned him down and.. Obito grandma was a filler.

And then.. half of his body gets mutilated, he has no leg, no eye, no face, no arm, he got CRUSHED during a mission against the opponets of the village he wanted to protect, while saving his comrades but he gets "rescued" and sewed by Madara, Madara tells him the shinobi world is too rotten, corrupted and since it won't change — it must be destroyed, and that he'll realize soon. He tells Obito he won't be capable of being a ninja in his state, but Obito, but he still has hope, despite being in such gruesome situation. Obito doesn't believe him, he spends most of his time thinking about his team while he recovers (which was incredibly painful and discomforting..people tend to ignore that, like, Obito really suffered during the time he was kidnapped by Madara), desperately wanting to see his team again, they give him the strength to recover, to do his absolute best! And then he does get the chance and goes back to see his team after a long time of being "trapped", of struggling, of the whole process he went through. But? It was for nothing. He watches one of the only persons who believed in him, kill herself with Kakashi's attack (which was a technique perfected by having Obito's sharingan) the guy he gave his life for, and she does it for Konoha, for what she was taught was right, that she was nothing more than a tool (and no one will remember her sacrifice, the village won't, but Kakashi and Minato, who dies later.)

Obito was destroyed mentally and physically, noticing Madara was right, but also because everything he went through, he says that he's living a horrible nightmare, and the horrible nightmare is the shinobi world. Rin, and everything he went through, the war, Sakumo, his own "death", etc made him completely notice the reality of Madara words and the system. The system it's corrupt, and it wasn't going to change at all. Rin died, she died because she was taught her life wasn't as important as the village, why? Because of Konoha fascist regime, and like it manipulated Rin, it was manipulating every child soldier and pretty much every generation (haven't seen it change yet lol) and if that system never changed, there would never be peace (it never changed during Obito whole life, the corrupted system never changed, Obito saw this happen his whole life. Over and over)

All of this happened because of the shinobi system, the will of the fire, and he began realizing it. And how was he? His body was mutilated, his love interest died, and a person close to him killed her, where was his teacher? Nowhere to be seen, just like when he "died", he was kidnapped, Madara promises him a better "world" if he comes back to him. He had just lost everything. He sees nothing but cruelty through his whole damned life, why? Because of the shinobi system, so he reveals against it. That's what I really like. Rin was just a catalyst to Obito view of the shinobi system and world in general, and no, his actions aren't because of Rin only, because if it was that way, he'd just revive her with the Edo Tensei, besides the fact he's not in love with her anymore after those years, and his ideology about the shinobi system being corrupt started before Rin's death, it was Sakumo death too, and Minato explaining it to him. But yeah..no, he's a simp in half of the fandom's eyes, lol

I also don't think Madara "brainwashed" him or controlled him (?) enterily, Madara did chose him (stated by Zetsu) but Obito himself saw with his own eyes the fascist regime that wasn't going to change, neither end..and for what? To be reduced to a simp.

Obito was a victim, yes, but anyways, I won't defend the clan massacre that he participated in, neither the Kyuubi attack, people he murdered and the war. Anyways, I love his character. He's my favorite and always will be. :]

[elakkval]

1878 in Act I and II is a crossroads of choice, every voice pulling Obito every which way. The first 1878 is his conflict with remaining strong as a shinobi, every voice tells him to hold onto his empathy and care for others, even enemies, but he is pulled with the conflict that those he fights are after his comrades, and that he might have to shed himself to become a good shinobi. This is reinforced by Kakashi’s adherence to the code, as well, but also that others that seemed to have shed their humanity are efficient and powerful. Out of desire to protect his comrades, he is pulled every which way in this sense. In Act II, it plays again before he discovers Rin and Kakashi chased by Mist shinobi. He wills himself to be strong enough to protect his comrades, to reject Madara's view of the world as unsaveable. But the following events show how this conflict transforms into something new, is he doing what is truly right? Is it wrong to miss himself, that he did away with?

46 & 2 and This City Has No Empathy combo in Act II and Act III represent him donning his mask to return to Konoha to wreak havoc. Unpersoning himself and laying down his feelings and resentment bubbling towards his home, which he is disillusioned with because of all that he has learned. He thinks of how he was treated and how his Clan was treated and how the White Fang was treated, he thinks of the past history of Konoha and how it failed in its mission to keep children from dying in war. He becomes a specter of that desire to keep children from dying, he'd make himself a boogeyman and destroy everything that ever was. Not only is he disillusioned with the system, but with reality itself. Even the best intentions leave things to being spoiled, and everybody can only get what they want in only a dream.

There are, of course, more motifs utilized. I can speak more to it later :)

[lesbiankoby]

I’ve kinda been thinking about this recently: what do you think obito thinks of Konoha as an institution?

I ask this because I’ve been reading some time travel fix it fanfics and, while I don’t think it’s necessarily ooc of him to return to konoha after the talk-no-jutsu in the fourth war (even as much as I would like for him to not go back) I do think that maybe with his understanding of how hidden villages work (shadow mizukage) and experiences with having control over his life and actions (not ignoring the slave seal, just it seems like the moon-eye plan worked at his pace not, say, zetsus. And by control over life and actions I mean his ability to act as an independent operator and decide where he was going to go what he was going to do etc. without the orders of a chain of command which definitely exist in konoha (at least we don’t really know how the other villages, like kiri, are run)) he might not be able to go back to konoha more rigid/controlled life - or at least not comfortably.

I don’t know how coherent that is but hope if nothing else it is interesting :)

oh obito is incredibly jaded about and detests the nations-wide institution of shinobi, konoha included, that's canon lol. to him it's a system that does little but churn out garbage-- him and kakashi both. though he's also incredibly fatalist about uh The World In General and not just shinobi... post talk-no-jutsu he does regain his like general faith in humanity though yeah. his parting words were essentially a desire for kakashi and naruto to take charge of konoha and change the system in his place, at least that's how i read his desire to see kakashi take up his old dream as hokage...? its complicated bc a lot of shit happened at once and also he was dying but i think he has faith that at least the people he believes in can improve the world they live in...? the antithesis of his previous wish to completely destroy the current world.

granted, i need to reread fourth war arc and take notes or something, the nuances of obitos Thing right there are probably escaping me rn.

(also, like, the slave seal was a deterrent obito wasn't even supposed to know about, so while in TRUTH he never had any other choice except walking the path of madara in practical reality he was directing his own movements and doing his mastermind shit without input from anyone else except himself, really, so yeah he's used to uhm a degree of independence lol. zetsu doesn't seem to care unless he went off the rails which he didn't.)

ANYWAY. ANYWAY. if we are to take "time travel fix it" into account, like, the peggy sue "wake up in own body from the past" it really depends on where in the timeline he landed...? i don't think he'd be fucking pleased to be taking orders from konoha again regardless (though of course hes aware theres a lot of things he needs to make amends for personally and even deeper down he wishes he'd never "left" for a plethora of reasons) but if hes in his twenties again or whatever imo he is absolutely not going back there and will probably start Conniving(tm) outside of konoha's borders to benefit his friends in the capacity hes capable of and clean up his own messes and if he's like, twelve years old again (nightmare) i can... hmm, see him sticking around, unless he really gets pushed over the edge abt smth, maybe? its hmmm i don't think he actually hates minato but i fail to see much evidence he'd feel comfortable ever properly trusting the guy for the ways minato betrayed his trust and the way obito betrayed his. idk... obito has priorities (his friends) and he's a scheming schemer who schemes so hed wriggle into the position that best let him do what he wants. i think. take that as you will.

but yeah! obitos interesting to think about i really need to go back and actually take notes.

[depressedhatakekakashi]

Seeing post on tumblr, I had this impression that what they think "character development" is like, doing something drastic and dramatic like couple murders or world subjugation. Also I notice people on tumblr are attracted to slogan so everytime a character said "everything is shinobi system's fault so I will destroy them all" they will be like "Yass our revolutionist 🥰🥰🥰" without looking at their actual behavior and the people who don't say the same is bootlicker of fascist regime. But like, do they know the definition of fascist?

Nagato's "I am God thus I declare half of the world should perish" is fascist. Deified of leader is fascist

Sasuke's "I'll became Supreme Leader so I will be the one on top and being hated by all" is him emulating fascist leader behavior

I don't think I have to say about how oppressive Madara and Obito's "subjugate everyone to eternal sleep" ideology

Those people in their antagonist era is completely depended on their physical power to obtain their goal and even refused to hear their closed one's opinion, yet tumblr people expect them to be a fair, non-fascist leader?

(Also some of them bashing Sakura and said that Uchiha blood are being dirtied by her DNA is creepily eugenic behavior)

Urge i hate the ‘sakura is ruining the Uchiha’ or ‘Sakura doesn’t deserve to carry the uchiha name’ bs. It’s so gross. I don’t even like S*suS*ku as a pairing, but the things people will say about Sakura are just gross

And you’re right. They call Konoha Fascist but it only really works under Hiruzen, who squashed a rebellion and allowed the murder of innocent children to ‘protect Konoha’ (🤮🤮🤮)

If Danzo had actually gotten to do anything as Hokage i have no doubt that would have been a fascist af regim

But tsunade? Naruto? Kakashi? Those are flawed systems, not fascist and i wish people would learn the difference before spewing bs just cuz they hate those characters

And i HATE that anyone thinks the infinite tsukiyomi plan was a good idea and Madara or Obito were actually doing anyone a favor by implementing it. Taking away people’s freedom and forcing them into a ‘perfect dream’ is not a good thing

It’s forcing the world that madara and Obito want onto an entire world of people, where Naruto wants to actually try to fix the system and show that people can be better

[allgather]

@chidoried asked me: tell me all about minato's disillusionment with the shinobi system after all his team’s deaths.

minato is already grasping at straws to carry on after obito and rin, to get up in the morning and take on the role of teacher and hokage. but he stays in the village, stays as hokage to be there for kakashi. he lives for a hope for the future that kakashi & kushina & the family he wants to make together with her. he can live on that hope. as long as he can protect kakashi, he can survive. barely, he is suffering, weighed down by unspeakable grief and loss, but he has a child he vowed to look out for who still needs him.

but if he lost kakashi. oh my god, he already failed him so much. he had one thing he needed to do and he couldn’t keep him safe, couldn’t keep him from losing the boy to his grief, from taking unnecessary risks. and then he’s dead and this team that made up his identity, that gave him hope for the future, made him want to be a better hokage, to make this world better, the kids who would be his legacy, who were the best parts of him. all three are gone. it was his job to protect them and he failed for utterly. it tears him apart, it eats him alive.

and the village feels cold. kushina has always been an outsider and minato worked so hard to be hokage, to hopefully change things, to make her accepted and to keep his children safe. but the children still die. he’s still so powerless. the most powerful shinobi in the leaf, in charge of the village, and it doesn’t mean a fucking thing.

and if he doesn’t break and leave with kushina prior to naruto’s birth (because minato and kushina can’t stomach the thought of raising a boy just for him to be as outcasted and hated as his mother or like animals for slaughter to die in the line of duty like the siblings he’ll never know), he would DEFINITELY defects after the ninetails and kushina’s death. he’d have given up the post of hokage long before, right after kakashi, his final student’s, death. then he leaves because he can’t let this happen to his child, this one last chance he allows himself. he can’t. not again.

he’s already been too complacent, too powerless for too long. sitting there with the hokage’s hat like it meant something. he’s lost everything, including kushina, if they had waited until after the ninetails. he has no one else to care for, no one more to protect but Naruto, and the most loving act he can think of is to take him and run. to get out. a life on the run is dangerous, but it’s more conscionable than allowing his son to be raised to die in war. he resents the time he spent stationary in grief. he regrets what he allowed to happen on his watch. he goes and he leaves a slash across his stone face. a warning, a statement: he’ll be back for the others, the living (for their very lives) and the dead (for their violent legacies, upheld by the power hungry and the cruel).

this is all he knows how to do to honour their legacies: obito, rin, kakashi, and kushina. to destroy this system that condemned them to death. to raise a child in their memory, whose future will be happy, safe, and free.

[theheirofthesharingan]

Wow, it's like you read literally nothing of manga or watched the anime, because it has all been explained in detail. Anyway, since you said you were open to being corrected, I will offer alternate take on this.

Perpetrator. If he’s a victim, then every war criminal is a victim in that they believed too much in a system lied to them.

He is a victim. Also a martyr. He was a kid who was powerful, but with no authority of his own. The entirety of Sasuke's flashbacks are filled with Fugaku never letting him speak, never listening to him, and never offering him an emotional support. His only friend committed suicide, who had a plan to stop the coup. Let's not pretend an eleven year old child should have been completely okay with watching his friend commit suicide in front of him. This is also when he was traumatized enough from watching war at the age of four. How exactly does this detail skip the "Itachi is so evil" crowd? How?

This right here is Danzo threatening Itachi.

This is Hiruzen confirming that he put Itachi through hell and made him commit the crime.

My Itachi lore is rusty, but if he really was the only one powerful and smart enough to destroy the Uchiha, then he had nothing to fear from not doing it unless he also believed the Uchiha were inherently a threat by existing.

Except, it wasn't just Itachi who killed the clan. It was Obito who helped him. He neither thought the clan was a threat nor did he hate them. The coup was a terrible, shortsighted idea that would have started the war eventually. In case you're wondering how, so here it is - coup is forcefully taking the power. The clan that was already hated and seen with fear, how would the Uchiha convince they weren't in the wrong for forcefully kicking Hiruzen out? That's not to say the clan was wrong for wanting equality, but that the coup would have caused more damage. And Itachi, as a 12 year old child, was given the "option" to prevent it. If you want to blame someone for the massacre the blame goes to Danzo, Hiruzen, and Fugaku. Fugaku realized his mistake before dying.

Even assuming he was a martyr for committing the massacre

He isn't a martyr for committing the massacre. He is a martyr for taking on the blame of a crime and having to take up the responsibility of a problem that was always adults' business, not a child's. He turned 13 sometime after the massacre. He was dragged into this mess by adults without his consent who offered him no support. Then the lack of literally any support from his family was also a cause he got manipulated by Danzo. More on his family dymaic here.

I don’t remember anybody forcing him to join the Akatsuki

He joined the Akatsuki not because someone "forced" him to but because that was the organization that gave him the shelter after he went rogue. The second SS I shared above is the reason. He joined it to keep tabs on them so they don't attack Konoha. It worked. Imagine Konoha being attacked while Naruto was 12 years old to capture him? It didn't happen because they had a pact with Itachi. More on Itachi as a spy here.

or torture Sasuke/Kakashi. Correct me if I’m wrong, of course

Circumstances did. They're ninja, and they can take the shit normal people, the civilians in the Shinobi world, cannot take. Tsunade poisoned Jiraiya, not with the intent to kill, of course, but still. More on his and Sasuke's part here. To add to this link: Jiraiya had already made up his mind to train Naruto but he realized the gravity of the threat once Itachi "attacked" the village.

but Itachi was painted too evil at the beginning of the series to convince me he was innocent in the end.

He isn't meant to be innocent. He's a victim of a system and has gray morals who had to make impossibly hard choices his whole life. The narrative never says he's a good guy. He's still seen as a genocidal maniac even in Boruto. No one other than Sasuke, Kakashi, Naruto, and Killer Bee knows he stopped Edo Tensei. He is also called out for his treatment towards Sasuke.

He had to repeatedly choose between what's the worst and what's worse. War or massacre? Sasuke's safety or happiness? He chose what was 'worse' and took their full responsibility all the same. He could have blamed Hiruzen, his own parents, or the village for his miseries, but he didn't. He's a perpetrator because of the lack of options not because it's who he is. If it was the case, he wouldn't have considered dying at Sasuke's hands to avenge the clan or to forcefully prolonge his life in order to die at Sasuke's hands.

Someone in the replies mentioned he was retconned. No, he wasn't. There's enough evidence in manga and anime both suggesting otherwise. The problem being people mistake Naruto world for ours and then judge it based on the emotional/mental strength of the irl people. There's more to Itachi has been hinted as early as Team 7's first training with Kakashi and then also chapter 137, Sasuke's flashbacks during his fight against Gaara.

11/16 :3

Controversial Ask Meme

11) Is Itachi a martyr, a victim, or a perpetrator?

Perpetrator. If he’s a victim, then every war criminal is a victim in that they believed too much in a system lied to them. My Itachi lore is rusty, but if he really was the only one powerful and smart enough to destroy the Uchiha, then he had nothing to fear from not doing it unless he also believed the Uchiha were inherently a threat by existing. Even assuming he was a martyr for committing the massacre, I don’t remember anybody forcing him to join the Akatsuki or torture Sasuke/Kakashi. Correct me if I’m wrong, of course, but Itachi was painted too evil at the beginning of the series to convince me he was innocent in the end.

16) Is Tobirama racist against the Uchiha?

This shouldn’t be controversial. Yes. He was absolutely prejudiced against the Uchiha. His distrust of the Uchiha because they were Uchiha was a key aspect of his character.

[captnjacksparrow]

When I say "Sasuke was right", I don’t wanna say "Sasuke should have killed everyone and burned Konoha with his Amaterasu." What I wanna say is "It was legitimate for Sasuke to hate Konoha’s gouvernement."

And it’s the same thing when I say "I’m an anti-Konoha", I don’t wanna say "Konoha’s habitants should have died". What I wanna say is "Konoha, and shinobi system in general are full of failures. This system should be changed"

So???

What's your point now???

Should I be a telepathic person to know what you think inside your mind is not what you say outloud???

Do one thing.

Paste all these lines in your blog description so that it's transparent for everyone as to what you mean vs what you say. Just like how I did in my blog description.

What I wanna say is "It was legitimate for Sasuke to hate Konoha’s government."

But whatever you say is only half of Sasuke's Characterization though. Did you forget it conveniently or Did you cleverly bury it somewhere hoping that no one would read the Manga to find out the truth?

He hated Konoha. Agreed. I never denied it.

But he also verified his resolve to destroy Konoha over and over before he was about to actually going ahead with that plan.

I never saw Nagato verified his resolve.

I never saw Madara did it either despite he was the one who helped create it.

I never saw Obito did it as well, despite he wanted to become an Hokage of that said Village.

But only Sasuke.

He also came to term with his hateful feelings for Konoha, the moment he said this.

This.

And This.

His only concern was to not let Itachi who fought for that place to be drenched with Darkness anymore. Which is in and of itself is a big proof that he didn't hate that place anymore.

But Somehow, you guys just bury this huuuge pumpkin inside your Salad and keep on saying, "This Salad doesn't have a trace of Pumpkin".

You are acting just like SS and NH peeps who take what's convenient for them and spin theories out of a Single Panel.

What I wanna say is "Konoha, and shinobi system in general are full of failures. This system should be changed"

And What do you propose on your Sasuke-kun's behalf to change the System??? I want to know your learned opinion.

Oh Wait!!! Never Mind.

I know what you'll say.

You'll bring some Utopian Idealistic Manifesto which says, "Everyone should stop being a Shinobi and go to school, learn STEM or Arts, wear spectacles and be happy".

Or you'll say, "Leave it to Sasuke-kun, he will take care of everything".

Or you might bring some copy pasted Communist Propaganda which is nothing but a fictional North Korea Version 2.0.

Sorry to say, Sasuke along with Naruto changed the system for the better. Hint : Read Chapter 648, Chapter 458, Chapter 700 in this particular order. Pick up the similarities and you'll notice the Change. 

When Sasuke said he wanted to become an Hokage, he never said anything about Revealing UCM or that Utopian Agenda you guys keep saying under the name of ‘Changing the System’ or that ‘Communist Propaganda’ your sect leader spouts often. Sasuke simply said, he wanted to keep the 5 villages together with pure Hatred and in Contrast, Naruto said he wanted to go with Understanding and Love.  

Meaning, they both wanted the same result (uniting 5 villages) but had different methods. 

My point is simple. Hate Konoha all you want. I don’t care. But why are you claiming that Sasuke still (after chapter 627) hated that place when in canon it’s totally opposite? Why are you saying that he didn’t change the system when in reality, he did already?  

Not Sorry, but I like and accept Sasuke as a Whole (from Chapter 3 to Chapter 700)... Not the bits and piece, bastardized version of Sasuke you guys use to project yourself. 

[donotpercieveme123]

I would kill for an AU where Madara uses the edo tensei to bring Izuna back after he leaves the village and the whole VotE thing. And instead of Obito pretending to be Madara it's Izuna. We never saw him use his Mangekyou so he could have the same abilities as Obito, and he wears the mask to hide the edo tensei cracks.

And he does things a lot differently. Like 99% of the nonsensical things obito gets up to he just doesn't. Like the nine tails incident. That was just genuinely an accident (and the tailed beasts are more so forces of nature, pure chakra, who aren't santient). And obviously the fucking massacre, he has absolutely no hand in that. Like he gets there too late, some of the eyes have already been stolen (danzo), so he just destroys all the remaining eyes as per clan rituals, and instead of going ape shit he buys his time and plans for absolutely destroying konoha ltr.

The whole thing with Mist too, and the Mizukage has nothing to do with him. But what he does do is set up footholds in all the great nations, like he really plans for a war if it comes down to it, like in Rain with the Akatsuki. Insurrection!

This also raises the opportunity to explore the politics, culture, and history of the other great nations. Like yes pls!! Also the 3 great ninja wars that were just never given any context in cannon.

The akatsuki don't just basically in fight and end up killing each other lol, and the edo tensei has a lot of limitations that it didn't in cannon. Like his army of reanimated corpses is a lot smaller, and they're weaker (like the edo tensei limits their abilities). And his white Zetsu army is also not that big. Like he has fewer pieces but he lays them smart. It would make for a much better war arc if we see actual warfare and if there's no insane power scaling right out of the blue.

Pain destroys Konoha like in cannon, but Naruto is not able to talk no jutsu his way out of this one. He dies bringing Madara back though, so the odds aren't insanely in their favour. Like imagine if pain was still around during the war...

Probably the biggest obstacle to this AU working would be having Itachi join the Akatsuki. Izuna would just not tolerate his presence. Or he wouldn't have while he was still alive, I feel like he's lived long enough that he's mellowed out a bit in the sense that he can put up with about anything if it helps meet his end goal.

So I think he wants him where he can watch him, and itachi becomes his double agent in the end. (He should have had far more complicated feelings towards Konoha, and in cannon he doesn't even report anything useful on the Akatsuki lmao so maybe it's not a stretch.) And if he's promised a perfect world I think he would support it. Like oh u can make world peace, don't tell me 'pacifist' Itachi would not eat that shit up. Like give me deranged Itachi absolutely haunted by guilt. I want to see him absolutely unhinged!

Also what if Danzo used Shisui's eye to push Itachi over the edge to do it. Like I can't imagine anyone being able to slaughter civilian infants in cold blood and justify it in any way, then still get treated like he's some martyr.

Izuna probably knows this, but he's still very much like u still wanted to do it to a large extent, sure u were a child, but children doing shit like that was just his experience too so he cuts him no slack about it lol. And besides, Itachi is sick and dying anyway, no point in trying to get rid of him in the end. (They're similar in strength but Izuna doesn't want to risk it either way, smart boi).

Oh and instead of putting everyone is a genjutsu so they can have constant wet dreams, it's more of an Infinite Kotoamatsukami where ppl still go about their lives but they just don't have free will in a few areas. Like overriding everyone's brains that ppl just can't hurt each other anymore. Also controlling the world leaders so they can implement his political system. Complete control, but they mean well. Like authoritarian communism lmao.

[sapphic-sasuke]

Hello, how are you doing these days? I'm back with another ask. Since we see the term 'potential' being applied to characters a lot now, do you think Itachi had any 'potential' to be an interesting character? It is a bit later that he became a mess of theme- and plot-related mistakes, but do you think in there's any basis in canon for him to have been a decent character? One that, if not complex, at least made sense? Thank you and have a great day!

OMGG HIII FAV MUTUAL i been okay these days so busy w my new job but good. howre u? 

I think Itachi had the potential to be an interesting character. Itachi’s character could have been extrapolated in so many different ways that seeing him shoved into a corner just ARGGH. there’s not much depth to him despite popular belief.

It’s crazy to me because part 1 Itachi HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL ARGGH. It’s like.. man the fear? The way all of the jounins and konoha just couldn’t match him at all! That build up was so nice. His confrontation with Sasuke where he chokes him. It’s so good!!!

I think the reason Itachi’s character fails so spectacularly is because of how the narrative wanted to warp him into someone who “wasn’t that bad” or “had good intentions to save the village but his method of action was flawed” (i see this argument a lot honestly) this argument is reiterated by obito and later naruto and kakashi. because itachi committed genocide to save konoha, he’s seen as morally grey despite the fact that the village he’s saving is highkey fascist and fucks over so many smaller, weaker villages (case in point, NAGATO!) konoha is LITERALLY a military dictatorship. there’s absolutely nothing good about that awful village and itachi killed his family for it

okay now back to my initial point, itachi killing the uchihas for konoha is fundamental to his character, it shapes him... but my god he would have been sooo much better as only an antagonist instead of someone in the middle. I understand that he was manipulated by the elders but Itachi as an antagonist would have still worked even after the plot twist of killing for konoha. He fails because his character sort of stretches out to shadow over everyone else. he’s painted out to be unbelievably strong and infallible even in death to the point it’s just laughable and it isn’t done well either because there’s no purpose to it. it does not forward the plot, it just feels like fanservice. he doesn’t fit into the story with the characters at all. it feels so forced, grating and awkward. suddenly these characters established to be the best of the best are tripping over their feet over a sick shinobi with eyes that are almost blind

His character isn’t that developed; his persona of being strong, deadly and calm is never questioned or challenged. He’s either this loving brother full of guilt or a perfect shinobi. It’s boring! Sasuke loves him when he finds out the truth, the hokages call him a hero and... that would have been a really good point to show how corrupt and horrific the shinobi system is but Itachi’s actions are never questioned! there’s nothing in the narrative in shippuden to make you believe that Itachi was wrong other than his regret (this is mainly because of how the Uchihas are viewed by everyone) And his regret is targeted more at making sasuke suffer than the killing of his clan.

Making Itachi a compelling character could have been done in so many ways so long as there wasn’t this suffocating attempt to justify him in the manga.

And I guess properly flesh out his motives. He kills his clan for konoha for Sasuke. Okay. He joins the Akatsuki to spy on them for Konoha. How would that have worked? If we’re going along with him being a spy, maybe we can be shown how he gradually loses all his morals, finds killing easier. Maybe there’s a moment where he’s surprised at how easy he finds it to fit in with Akatsuki. It would explain his torture of Sasuke more if his default reaction to anything that isn’t entirely numbing is violence. Maybe instead of everything being some greater manipulative bullshit, moments where he harms Sasuke are genuine lapses in control. He’s so obsessed with Sasuke he can’t even rationalise his actions.

(I’m still of the belief that him joining the Akatsuki as a spy was an awful plot point. It would have been better if he only joined the Akatsuki to amplify his villainous persona so Sasuke feels even more inclined to kill when he’s going around terrorising people. I feel like Itachi after killing the clan no longer caring much for Konoha, only Sasuke and a weird obsession for peace because that’s what he also did all of this for, would have been a far more interesting twist. He’s a very selfish character that gets interpreted as selfless for the “sacrifices” he makes because the shinobi think he’s right.)

We need to be shown just how horrific Itachi’s actions are the same way we were shown in part 1 Naruto. And other than the physical consequences, the mental ones too.

I guess what would make Itachi more interesting as a character if we went along with his canon actions would be to see his thought process more. This guy killed his entire clan—show us how twisted his mind can be. Show us how the guilt/self hatred/anger/apathy destroys himself until he’s quite literally begging Sasuke to kill him in his mind.

Rather than having his machinations work out, what if he fails? What if it goes wrong? We need more moments where he’s failing. Not beating legendary characters like Orochimaru. There’s no satisfactory release to Itachi, even in his death. It’s very bland.

I don’t think the plot twist of Itachi killing for konoha in itself was bad, it’s more the execution that was bad. Because we’re already shown in part 1 that Konoha is corrupt. The plot messes come from 1) the urge to make Itachi out to be infallible and righteous but deeply troubled and 2) the narrative trying its hardest to paint the uchihas out to be inherently evil and 3) the lack of accountability placed on individuals and more on “the cycle of hatred” ignoring that it’s these Kages in power who were perpetuating that system.

Okay so I will forever be salty at the direction Itachi’s character took. They took a mysterious older brother and turned him into a plot convulted mess with the worst fake deep quotes and annoying op attacks pulled out of his ass. almost damn well ruined Sasuke’s character too smh. So yeah bestie Itachi had sooo much potential. He could have properly been used as an instrument to show shinobi like the protagonists that Sasuke’s anger is valid and that the village they fight for is evil and not worth it or to properly allow the Uchiha to receive justice but nooooooo guys he felt bad :( and he loves sasuke :( and he was a spy for the village all the protagonists are from fighting terrorism in the shadows :( and the uchihas deserved it for rising up against the village that was discriminating against them :( clearly state sponsored genocide isn’t that bad :( yeah he tortured his brother and his spying did nothing to stop akatsuki but he tried :(

[theheirofthesharingan]

It's heartbreaking that the day Itachi massacred his clan, he continued to blame himself and himself only despite the Leaf leaders putting him in those circumstances. He knew how horrible the whole Leaf leadership was. He TRIED to warn his clan about their impending failure, which was inevitable, and his words were immediately brushed off without the Uchiha even considering them. Because they saw him as a traitor.

He considered himself insignificant, yet hoped the Leaf leaders would make something out of the given time that they had after Shisui died. But no... Hiruzen didn't do a thing. Itachi saw that. He noticed how the whole government wanted the Uchiha dead. He knew Hiruzen's words of kindness were a farce.

The possibility of the 4th World War, the Uchiha failing and dying at the village's hands, and then eventually being labeled the traitors and criminals forever, despite being the founding members of the Hidden Leaf Village. The coup had no positive outcome whether they won or lost. Even then, he fully understood why the Uchiha really would do this. And he wanted to be the Hokage so that the village would stop seeing them with suspicion. He worked hard to be a strong and powerful ninja. He wanted to help his clan too. He saw all the darkness of the Hidden Leaf. And he wanted to change that without any bloodshed.

But the grownups around him failed him. His parents failed him. The Leaf Village failed him. Itachi was only 12-13. A lonely kid. And Shisui's death broke him to the extent he never found himself again. The anime shows him as a complete badass king that can't lose to anybody, but he was beyond broken and traumatized as a 4-5 year old itself. He was suffering and only found comfort in Sasuke's company.

When Obito told Sasuke that Itachi was callously used by the Shinobi system, he wasn't lying at all. Both the Uchiha and the Hidden Leaf used him as a tool, refused to see him as a human, let alone a child. There was a reason why he never shared his pain with anyone. Because he knew no one was willing to listen to him. The ones with absolute authority who could have done something, didn't do anything.

He took the blame and the burden of killing his clan not because he believed they deserved to die, but because their death was imminent (Danzo made that one clear to him), and after their deaths their honour would be stripped as well.

The rest of the characters are super lucky to never have been put in the situation Itachi was. We never know how it would have turned out for them, except for the main character (because the narrative is going to make the main character end up being the right one and the winner as well).

The Uchiha were the victims. Itachi was a victim. Sasuke was a victim. They all deserved better. But their lives were destroyed because of the weak leadership of Hiruzen, corrupted ideology of Danzo and the two Elders.

[mixelation]

Inspired by the art you just reblogged: What is your top "[character] deserved better!" "They committed war crimes." "Yeah, but I love them, so they deserved better" pick?

...............I can’t just answer all of Akatsuki, can I? Fuck it. Akatsuki but ranked by how much they deserved better according to my biased fangirl heart (least to most deserved better). 

1. Zetsu - Zetsu deserved worse.

2. Obito - Obito.... got about what he deserved. I think if I liked him more I’d maybe be mad he didn’t get to live so he could do Sasuke-style atonement, but also I wasn’t very invested in him, so.... SHRUG EMOJI

3. Sasori - Sasori was set up as actively being okay with his defeat and I feel like his within-arc character arc was more complete than most of the other Akatsuki, so like. I guess this is fine..... as long as I pretend the embarrassing debacle of the Edo Tensei thing didn’t happen.

4. Kakuzu - I still feel like he should have been harder to kill but I feel less bad about it because he had to fight the main character and his brand new power-up which is just the narrative kiss of death. 

5. Hidan - I’m sort of mad about Hidan’s downfall, mostly because Shikamaru did something incredibly cruel that was seen as like.... morally just by fandom? Like excuse me, Sasuke is bad for wanting to regular-murder someone who killed his whole family but Shikamaru blows someone apart and then buries them (STILL ALIVE AND TWITCHING) and that’s his moral imperative? Yes, Hidan is a violent maniac who needed to go down, but holy jeez. I would have preferred more of a “what the FUCK, Shikamaru” reaction and him having to justify why Hidan needed to be put down like that (both doing more interesting character work on Shikamaru’s side AND emphasizing how unhinged and uncontrollable Hidan was). But actually the ideal end for Hidan would have been Team 10 having to investigate Jashinism and find a weakness that way (and giving us The Worldbuilding), but I guess we don’t have time for everything.

6. Kisame - Kisame stuck around for a long time and had to face down Bee and Guy so I feel like his death wasn’t unsatisfying. He gets ranked above Hidan and Kakuzu because I also feel like if one Akatsuki got to live and be semi-redeemed, there’s a pretty strong argument for it being Kisame. :/

7. Pein - Pein’s just giving up pisses me off because he was right. HE WAS RIGHT, NARUTO. LET HIM DESTROY THE SHINOBI SYSTEM. But also he’s not one of my faves so he gets ranked toward the middle lol. 

8. Team Taka - I wouldn’t normally include Akatsuki Junior on these lists but every one of these characters were screwed over. Why did they go back to Orochimaru? Why didn’t we get to see them have any of their individual goals achieved? Even Sasuke got a sort of “???” end. 

9. Deidara - This is the part of the section where I really start getting big mad about how they were robbed and it’s 100% fueled by fan bias. Listen. Listen. Why the fuck did Sasuke win that fight? Why would you do Deidara dirty like that??? Just let him have an art studio somewhere!!! WHY CAN’T WE HAVE MORE DEIDARA CONTENT 

10. Konan - How the fuck did Konan lose that fight???? HOW??????

11. Itachi - Objectively Konan got more screwed because 1) she was RIGHT and Itachi is just very confused and very unhinged in his pacifism, and 2) she got almost no character work or ANY OTHER FIGHTS whereas Itachi did (and arguably itachi got a full arc which ended appropriately for his character), but also. Idk if you all have noticed. I really r e a l l y like Itachi and if you were doing to posthumously redeem him anyway, why didn’t he get to live?! YES I am aware this ranking is the MOST colored by “but I like him???” but also (BANGS TABLE) I WANTED AN UCHIHA BROS REUNION THAT DIDN’T INVOLVE FUCKING KABUTO. UCHIHA RECONCILIATION WHEN

[leportraitducadavre]

When I stop to think about, Obito became utterly disillusioned with Minato and even grew to hate him (Minato) somewhat. I mean when you get down to it, Minato for all his morals and such still supported a corrupt system. I mean he probably didn’t see it as corrupt, but still.

You’re absolutely right Anon, and I don’t see where Obito was wrong. The man saw his best friend, teammate, and crush get kidnapped by Kiri ninjas who used her as a vessel for Isobu so she will go back to Konoha, lose control of the three tails and destroy the village, and she had to ultimately sacrifice herself to protect those she cared for. The deed was performed by Kiri-nin who were responding to Konoha’s actions in the war, led by Hiruzen at the time (who is said to be the one who actually started the armed conflict by Nagato and is not disputed by other characters later on), but her village failed her when they transformed her into a mere tool for them, manipulating her into believing the Will of Fire, and pushed them to fight a war that, if it wasn’t for their own Hokage, perhaps wouldn’t have happened.

Rin is the exact personification of Obito’s mindset, she represented his innocence and pure intentions while alive -the love that he saw worth fighting for-, and her death broke the charade of gentleness and kindness Konoha was so adamant to show even to their own citizens. Minato's rise to power and awards for his actions during the war -actions that implied the neglect of his team which ended up with two thirteen year old dead under his watch- just solidified his belief of people like Rin -or him, being disposable. Stating that Minato didn’t have enough time as Hokage to change things is being just too kind and naive, he was the one who tried to comfort Edo-Tensei Hiruzen while in the war arc for his implications in the UCM, despite the later admitting that he didn’t do as much as he could to prevent the coup and “save” the Uchiha. There’s nothing in canon that can be used to state that Minato will change the system that allowed him to get away with neglecting his chünin team and rise to power.

It’s true that perhaps I’m being unfair giving the context in which Minato left them to their own devices. After all, Kakashi was a jönin and they were at war, but even if we don’t hold that against him, to believe that Minato, who showed no previous discomfort with the system in place, will do something to change it is to give him a credit he did nothing to achieve.

Obito, on the other hand, is a fantastic character and I will always thank Kishimoto for creating him despite the gruesome ending he gave him. His beliefs grew at a fantastic pace and he wasn’t blind to the things that happened around him and the involvement of what used to be his government, which he tried to bring down. Can we despise his actions against his own clan, helping Itachi in the massacre? Yes, absolutely, but it doesn’t go against his ideals, and that’s what makes him fantastically written. He had no animosity against his clan like Itachi did, their massacre was just to achieve a goal, not to protect Konoha. Rin was a catalyst of something his character always had at its core, to believe that the war was just because he wanted to revenge her is a flat way of reading him in a rather pitiful attempt to brush off Konoha’s (hence, Minato) atrocities.

[depressedhatakekakashi]

Taryn I'm so bored let's spice things up.

🔥- Sasuke

🔥 - Madara

🔥 - Rock Lee

🔥 - The Akatsuki Movement in general

Sasuke

Sasuke was right to want to seek revenge and a change of the system, and he was right to kill Danzo (and should have been allowed to kill the other elders too tbh) but where he took it too far was wanting to kill all the kage’s, which includes gaara. A boy who was directly harmed by the exact system sasuke wanted to change and who wanted to make it better.

Sasuke should have been allowed to be a part of konoha in a way that meaningfully changed the system insread of just deciding ‘actually everything is ok and i’m going to leave to ‘atone for my actions’

Madara:

I’m going to say it. Not impressed.

Like seriously inwould have liked the war arc a LOT more if it was Just Obito and he got to die a villian, and the old Kage’s were never brought bCk. Madara had an interesting story in the past but bringing him and the kage’s back completely destroyed the point of characters LwYs saying ‘the new generation surpasses the old’ and was honestly so boring in my opinion.

I do not understand the love for madara and i probably never will.

Rock Lee

Man got done dirty. He came in and made a damn show of pointing out the sharingan’s weakness (taijutsu) and just how powerful taijutsu was but then shippuden and now boruto just… urge

Boy deserved to kick more ass

The akatsuki-

Not all that interesting? Like i legit do not understand the facination. I’m not trying to say people can’t enjoy them obv cuz to each their own, but i just… don’t get it?

Kakazu is not hot. Sorry, ewww

Hidan’s just stupid and ya it’s funny but people who think he should have won against shikamaru and kakashi are hilarious because the entire point of that arc was immortality like hidan’s could only be defeated by intelligent approach and not brute force. A character like gai would never have been able to defeat Hidan, even though his is physically far stronger. Hidan and kakazu needed to be taken down by intelligent characters and it’s why i like the fight. Seeing kakashi use his intelligence and having shikamaru’s intelligence shine in battle.

[x-authorship-x]

Good day, I was rereading Until Dawn Breaks and the part where Shisui was beating the shit out of the ANBU trainees is so funny to me because their training consists of shattering bones, electrocuting people, and forcing horrifying visual hallucinations of death but misgendering someone??? Absolutely not. Props again for the unparalleled humor.

Question 1: Are you going to do anything with Mizukage Obito? He was essentially hijacking the whole system through Yagura, and the part where Kisame deflects is when Obito recruits him. (It also kills me how both Obito and Orochimaru wanted to be kage, didn’t make it, and then proceeded to basically become kage of other villages) And getting revenge by turning Kiri into a bloody cesspool probably sounded therapeutic to Tobs after Rin.

Question 2: Long-haired Obito??? The short hair is iconic but the long hair was a fucking LOOK. Obito may have been a disaster but his fashion sense was (mostly) impeccable. Long hair also feeds the whole (deranged lunatic) Madara imitation thing he has going on.

Lastly, may I introduce you to the idea of Root!Obito. No Madara/Zetsu, just Orochimaru and his criminal hands. Danzo could have easily faked most of the member’s death and moved the Root operations out of the village with Kamui. Plus, having not one but TWO of Konoha’s two most notorious kekkai in his collection of brainwashed soldiers? How can he say no to that? Obito with amnesia or sealed memory but still retaining his Protective Older Brother instincts and making sure the smol Root children have clean water, fresh food, warm housing, teaching them basic first-aid and shit because it’s technically not against the rules, they don’t have medical treatment, it’s not like Danzo has free access to a never-ending supply of gifted children, and the younger kids don’t know how, someone has to teach them, right? And Danzo has to keep up appearances on the council, so there’s more leeway. The Obito-Tenzou/Yamato mentor/brother relationship???? Plant boys chilling. Just, everyone aged younger than Obito imprints on him like a baby duckling. Everything is going well in Konoha under Minato’s leadership, the economy is improving, populations are increasing, treaties are happening, and then fucking Root gets discovered in its shit-show glory, and wow, so THAT is the reason why everything’s been so peaceful.

As always, thank you for replies and the brilliant writing.

Hey babe, nice to hear (see??? Read??) from you again~

Hey hey Shinobi might be murdering thieving lying cheating mercenaries... But they're not bigots 😌 i can let mutilation and torture slide but misgendering is just too far

1) Tobi: *destroys the whole of Kiri* it's free therapy

I'm not gonna lie to you.... Haven't got that far yet 💅🤣 I'm mainly gnawing on the whole sannin and konan issue ATM and honestly the clusterfuck that is Tobi's... everything plotline shit is so complicated I could start stabbing my screen if i have to do more math to try (and fail) to fix a timeline...again

2) Tobi is a hermit gremlin and hermit gremlins don't get haircuts ✊

3) ooooh that's a good plot bunny! Do you write at all? You should totally go for it, I have a hunch you have a soft spot for Obito lol. We love soft brotherly shenanigans AND planty bros. It fits too, if you think about Obito getting his whole torso etc fixed with that plant shit which then Danzo also uses to fix his Sharingarm (rip ew) so that could be an interesting connection, Danzo experimenting on his ROOT agents before using the successes on himself... Also extra slice of angst if Obito, with his memories sealed, has to help Itachi slaughter the Clan and he's wondering why these people look like him and have the same eyes even as he's helpless to follow his orders 😭 also so cool if the seal on his memories isn't perfect so he finds himself helping old people (the same old people from when he was a kid) with their groceries and shit as he passes through the village and he doesn't know HOW he knows that the old man is called hamada and buys clementines for his wife every Sunday but he DOES somehow :''''

Again, thanks for the ask!