#ODYSSEUS DID NOTHING WRONG

[sowearecleariamhere]

Penelope could easily be painted as the damsel yearning for her lover, the woman without much agency waiting for her husband to come home (which of course we all know she isn't, she is a literal and metaphorical queen), and in a lesser story*) she might have been cast into that stereotype. I think that is why I love her almost yelling "You're mine" at Odysseus in WYFILWMA.

It is so possessive and decisive, ruling out any "buts". It perfectly underlines her steadfastness, her loyalty, her agency. She claims Odysseus as hers without question once she knows it is really him, that he is finally back home. She is seemingly offended that Odysseus even suggests that she might not accept him after how much he has changed. (She will make her own mind up about that, thank you very much, and said mind has been made up for 20 years btw)

It is not only that Odysseus has come home and now she chooses him. No, she has been choosing him over and over and over for the past 20 years with every action she took. It is not him coming back that now puts her in the position to choose him - it only reveals that choice, that there never was another choice other than Odysseus. Which leads me to my honorable mention:

Ody: "[...] You’ve been waiting for love."

Pen: "I've been waiting for you."

Penelope definitely had a surplus of suitors (108) and even if their motives might have been questionable, she could have easily found a new husband if that was what she wanted, maybe even one that genuinely loved her. But Penelope's love is Odysseus. Love for her is synonymous with him. No one else is even worth considering, she would rather be alone or even die before she gives any other man the time of day.

tldr; I love love LOVE the wording in WYFILWMA, how it shows how Penelope is just not taking this shit from her husband. She knows what she wants and that is Odysseus, even if it is not the original model but the slightly banged up version, the heavily traumatized, now with grey hairs probably, war criminal, ruthless god torturer version of her husband.

Because he is still her husband, goddamn it.

This might very well not make much sense bc I am insane over them currently

*) "lesser story" is not referring to the odyssey or saying epic is better than the odyssey, I mean to compare them both to any completely different work (or franchise if you will) that does not give characters agency where they should have it

[arowithanotp]

thinking about how in God Games ares is the only god whose argument athena doesn't refute

Apollo: the sirens were trying to kill him first now they'll be cautious

Hephaestus: well the crew were a bunch of idiots

Aphrodite: a broken heart can mend

Hera: he's never cheated on his wife

meanwhile ares says odysseus is a coward who should've fought scylla head on instead of sacrificing his men. The only part of his argument athena counters is him calling telemachus pathetic and weak. All athena says in favor of odysseus is that if ares wants to see violence he should let him go. She never denies that odysseus messed up by feeding his men to scylla only implies that he learned his lesson

[laerwenmith]

[miscgallery]

THEY PUT COLONIZERS IN MINECRAFT???????

[seeminglyseph]

For no reason in particular I am thinking about Agamemnon warning Odysseus in the original poem that Penelope might not be faithful based on his own experiences with Clytemnestra, never mind the context is entirely different and Agamemnon sacrificed their daughter before running off to war for 10 years and coming back a young slave princess. Like. Your experiences are not universal.

And like, Odysseus isn’t faultless in those goings on sometimes, and Epic the Musical would have like… probably a weird tone to throw…. All of That in there, but it does make me think a little about like… how many names from his introductory battle plan ended up in the Underworld by they were sailing through and how much of that is cresting the Despair Event Horizon as much as the prophecy?

Like the culmination of loss and his mother’s shade representing this ticking clock of “you will run out of time if you take too long. You are all mortal, the people you love cannot wait for you forever.” Feeding the desperation enough to make him ravenous.

[a-salty-alto]

I don't even get the point of Thunderbringer to be honest, like it's just the crew facing the consequences of their actions. Why is it this big sad dramatic moment it should be three minutes of Zeus rocking out while dancing on the crews corpses because they stabbed Odysseus.

[jaded-ghoster]

friendly reminder one of the greatest works of literature of all time was a self-insert catholic fanfic, dante x virgil shipping wars created the italian language

[longagoitwastuesday]

I keep thinking of that reply in my Odysseus/Agamemnon post about how I regard differently Odysseus' and Agamemnon's actions, while acknowledging that at times Agamemnon is written as a sweet man and Odysseus is always straight up shitty, and how it was taken as some sort of defense for Agamemnon and as a form of pointing out the double standard; and that wasn't at all what the post was about for me, even though I can see where they were coming from. To be honest, given I didn't imagine it would spread anywhere other than my own blog, I didn't explain myself very well (or at all).

The fact is that when I talked about Odysseus not caring about hurting someone else's child to start and end a war I was indeed comparing his actions to Agamemnon's, but my words about supporting Odysseus' wrongs and cheering him in his terrible actions, while in a joking tone, weren't entirely a joke. I do think that Odysseus does some very shitty acts, and some quite terrible ones depending on the sources. That's a fact, that he does is at the core of his characterisation and it's what makes him so much fun; but not even when he is at his most cruel does he harm his family, his own son. Agamemnon, while sweet and loving at times in some texts, at his worst is willing to sacrifice Iphigenia. When readers regard with more sympathy Odysseus over Agamemnon despite both being responsible for children dying, I don't think there's a double standard in this aspect at all considering it's never his own kid Odysseus harms. And that's the key, I think.

Odysseus and Agamemnon have very different priorities, a very different view on loyalty and duty. It could be said that Agamemnon acts out of selfishness, but it could also be read in a kinder light, saying that Agamemnon is ruled by the gods first, and by his role as head of the achaeans; Agamemnon is not entirely himself. In opposition we see Odysseus acting perhaps mainly for himself and his own family and men; yes, he is a king, but he has not the role Agamemnon has. As a consequence, Agamemnon submits his family's wellbeing to the war, to the gods, while Odysseus stops the plow before hurting Telemachus but is (depending on the source) the cause of Iphigenia's sacrifice and Astyanax's death.

Both Odysseus and Agamemnon have reasons to support their actions, and both can be sympathised with; it's fiction after all. When it comes to fiction, at the end of the day which character a reader is drawn to or sympathises with is mainly an issue of personal taste, but I suppose it also implies a certain level of one's own views or preferences on morals, what makes us find certain actions more justifiable, or tasteful (perhaps that's a more accurate word), than others. Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter, no matter how sympathetic or understandable the reason, generally sits worse on people than Odysseus doing the same with someone else's kids, because they're someone else's. This different emotional reaction they provoke has place not just metanarratively, but also inside the very story; it is narratively significant, given it determines how their arrival home plays out, how their wives react to them, and thus their futures. Ultimately it determines whether they live or die.

I think both terrible acts go in line wonderfully with each characterisation, showcasing the role they hold in their world, what they value, what they care for, what they're willing to sacrifice for themselves and the others, how much of their own they're willing to give and bend. While looking at the wider picture it could perhaps be drawn that Agamemnon is the better person out of the two, but Odysseus' selfish actions are perhaps easier to empathise with, especially from a modern viewpoint. Odysseus is treacherous and prone to betrayal, but not against his own; Agamemnon follows the rules of the gods. How fitting in that context that Odysseus doesn't die at the end of his story, that he cheats the death heroes so often are fated to, almost as if cheating the narrative itself, bending the rules of the world he is ascribed to; how fitting in the context of those texts that point towards Sisyphus being his father. But that's another topic, and I've already talked a lot.

[abearthatwrites]

A Brief Rundown of the IRL Ithaca Saga (to the best of my memory, in probably not chronological order)

jorge (creator, odysseus) decided it'll be cool to celebrate the ithaca saga with the epic cast via a trip to ithaca, greece

surely nothing can go wrong

mico (telemachus) seemingly found out about the trip with the rest of the fandom. he proceeded to plot a trip to ithaca

the epic cast dealt with multiple broken vans and missed a ferry by one minute. they had to cancel a stream because they were too exhausted

mico made it onto a plane

ithaca got hit by a typhoon, forcing them to move another stream indoors

mico got banned from tiktok. it was reversed

mason (tireseas) asked luke (zeus) to stop the rain. luke refused

the crew hiked up to odysseus' palace. they ran into a roadblock. mason looked into the future and did not see a way around it. (they found a way around it)

the crew found a well and sang their epic songs into it. except jp (crew) who just sang happy birthday

janani (aphrodite) also sang "royal we" into the well

anna (penelope) made it onto the plane to fly out to ithaca

hermes (troy) decided to take a plane to ithaca like a normal human instead of teleporting. he got side-eyed by a woman at the airport as he slept sprawled out in a chair. this quickly became a meme

hermes arrived in ithaca to the delight of everyone except jorge. mico also appeared in his videos. mico still had not updated anything after getting on the plane

anna's connecting flight got cancelled, leaving her stranded in a fancy hotel. she struggled to find the toilet in her hotel room

mico finally updated, claiming he was stuck in munich. mason appears in the video and gives him a water bottle, proving he is lying

the fandom believes mico anyway

mico is forced to post another video revealing he had been gaslighting us basically the entire time and was just delayed in getting to ithaca, that was all

troy and talya (circe), in character, talk about tea. troy says the tea tastes like her father's approval. earle (ares) then asks for 1000 cups and breaks down crying as luke cuts the camera

jorge posts a video apologizing for mico's absence, encouraging him to fly to ithaca, new york. mico appears in the background of this video

mico posts a video saying that he's finally in ithaca, but the crew is in ithaca, new york. jorge appears in the background of this video

jp films a behind the scenes video, calling out "some random guy" who just showed up asking if anyone knows jorge. it's mico

janani sings "royal we" again, but after she says "troy was breached" troy comes out screaming in pain. mico appears in the background of this, filming the video from two points above

it's time for the ithaca saga livestream... except it gets cancelled because the connection is bad and jorge's devices are dying

TL;DR: the gods saw the epic crew in ithaca and went "do you guys think it'll be really funny if we just. recreated the odyssey"

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Odysseus: ...And thats everything that happened. Telemachus: Wow... I am sorry you had to go through all that. It must have been hard giving up your crew like that. Odysseus: I mean if Polites was still there it would have been. But after the mutiny you would be amazed how easy it was. Penelope: Deserved. (Casually eats) Telemachus: Mother, you cant be so callous! Penelope: The moment they mutinied they stopped being his crew. He did nothing wrong. This is a good lesson for you. Odysseus: Your mother is right, it was a dick move of them. Penelope: Odysseus, massacring a bunch of idiots is one thing, but I will not stand for bad words at the dinner table. Odysseus: Apologies my love. Penelope: Forgiven, now go back to talk about the part where you were stabbing Poseidon.

[happypeachsludgeflower]

Ironically, after having obsessively listened to the entire saga on repeat last night, my favorite song was I Can’t Help But Wonder. It was my least favorite on my first listen through, but the more I listened to it and absorbed all the meanings and implications? I just. Loved it so much more 😭

There’s Odysseus finally meeting his son for essentially the first time (yes he held him as an infant, but he doesn’t know him as a person), there’s the fact that he spent twenty years wishing he could know his son. And then there’s Telemachus on the other side of the conversation who’s been dreaming of knowing his dad for twenty years and is worried his dad won’t love him?? Devastating. Imagine desperately loving and wanting to meet your child for twenty years and being told they worry you won’t love them??

AND THE LINE ABOUT ODYSSEUS TELLING HIS INFANT SON HE WOULD CAPTURE THE WIND AND SKY FOR HIM?? Guys. Odysseus literally captured the wind and sky to get home to his son and wife.

And then we have the reunion with Athena 😭😭 They don’t even talk about anything that happened?? I just imagine this scene of Odysseus saying, “Show yourself. I know you’re watching me,” just like he did when they first met, and neither of them say a thing about their argument, nothing about Athena fighting for him and saving him, nothing about everything that happened between the last ten years.

And without saying any of that, Athena goes straight into a roundabout way of saying, “You were right, I was wrong, and I led you astray.” She said, “I’m sorry,” without saying it. And there’s a beat of silence. Odysseus sighs. And essentially tells her, “No, you weren’t wrong. And I wasn’t wrong either. That world could exist somewhere far away, but it doesn’t exist here. I’m too old and tired to ever find it though, so you’ll have to make it exist someday for both of us.”

He forgives her in un-said words. It’s an absolution of the wrong Athena feels she’s committed. A goddess apologized to him, and Odysseus absolved her of her sins. Just. AHHHHHHHHHHH.

And then they part ways 😭😭😭 and there’s a tone in their voices that says it’s really their final goodbye this time. And they didn’t even say goodbye.

[fangirlofallthefanthings]

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME!!!!!!!!! OMG I FEEL SO VALIDATED!!!

"Which means, in this case, the pleasure Calypso could’ve brought Odysseus was only material: food and drink to keep him from starving, shelter to keep him from dying… and nothing more."

To take this FURTHER: It's Xenia. The thing that's literally one of the main points of the Odyssey. From that one line of "no longer pleased him," I knew in my BONES that it had to do with material gain. Food, clothes, nursing him back to health from drifting at sea for nine days. Nothing more.

Until she made it more.

This situation is so messed up yet so morbidly fascinating. It gives a stark window into the hierarchy and customs of hospitality in Archaic Greece. It's exciting and horrifying at the same time. It begs the question...

What if this was between a king and a banished princess? A nobleman and a lowly messenger down on his luck? A queen and a dismissed handmaiden?

Would people say the same about them as they do about Odysseus?

The Odyssey, book 5, line 151–155:

τὸν δ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἐπ᾽ ἀκτῆς εὗρε καθήμενον: οὐδέ ποτ᾽(1) ὄσσε δακρυόφιν τέρσοντο, κατείβετο δὲ γλυκὺς αἰὼν νόστον ὀδυρομένῳ, ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι ἥνδανε νύμφη.(2) ἀλλ᾽ ἦ τοι νύ��τας μὲν ἰαύεσκεν καὶ ἀνάγκῃ(3) ἐν σπέσσι γλαφυροῖσι παρ᾽ οὐκ ἐθέλων ἐθελούσῃ:(4) She (Calypso) found him (Odysseus) sitting on the shore—never once were his eyes Dry of tears, while his sweet life was passing away Lamenting his homecoming, for the nymph no longer pleased him. But indeed in the nights he slept, by force, In her hollow caves, unwilling beside the willing (nymph).

(1) οὐδὲ ποτέ: this is a good phrase to invoke pathos, as we see οὐδέ, “never”, being put alongside ποτέ, “once, at any time”, showing the picture of Odysseus crying on Ogygia since day one, never once free from sorrow. Notice, too, how this phrase comes first and foremost, presenting itself as a lead-up to the entire sentence, overshadowing this part with a sense of melancholy.

(2) ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι ἥνδανε νύμφη: I’ve been seeing a lot of interpretations based on this one single sentence, “…since she no longer pleased him”—but you know what? Just a reminder that in Ancient Greek, the word ἥνδανε (it’s 1st person singular indicative form being ἁνδάνω), with the meaning “pleased, delight”, is mostly used in the context of “being pleased with ransoms/words/food and drink…”, which is anything that promises material gains:

(e.g. “ἀλλʼ οὐκ Ἀτρεΐδῃ Ἀγαμέμνονι ἥνδανε θυμῷ”, Iliad. 1.24: but it (Achaeans’ assent to Calchas’s speech that promised ransoms) did not please the heart of Agamemnon son of Atreus; “…ἐμῷ δ᾽ οὐχ ἥνδανε θυμῷ”, Odyssey. 10.373: but it (Circe’s urging of Odysseus to eat the food) did not please my heart; “…μάλιστα δὲ Πηνελοπείῃ / ἥνδανε μύθοισι…”, Odyssey, 16.397–398: but he (Amphinomus) pleased Penelope the most with his words; etc.)

Which means, in this case, the pleasure Calypso could’ve brought Odysseus was only material: food and drink to keep him from starving, shelter to keep him from dying… and nothing more.

(3) ἀνάγκῃ: the dative singular of the word ἀνάγκη means “force, constraint, necessity” and sometimes even more, “torture; anguish, pain” (the latter is more seen in tragic plays), but here I believe the former meaning alone is more than enough to demonstrate the lack of consent in Odysseus when he slept beside Calypso.

(4) παρ’ οὐκ ἐθέλων ἐθελούσῃ: I love this line so much—the way Homer uses the participle of the verb ἐθέλω “to be willing” twice, each in different gender—the masculine nominative one for Odysseus being οὐκ έθέλων “ not willing”, the feminine dative one for the nymph being ἐθελούσῃ “too willing”, and putting them together to fit both the meter and the theme? This is literally perfect.

[arowithanotp]

"I watched my friends die in horror crying as they all were slain. I heard their final moments crying their captain in vain"

who gave six of their men up as chew toys to scylla odysseus who refused to tell any of their crew anything that was happening ever odysseus who drove their crew to starvation odysseus who sacrificed dozens of men with their own wives and family including your SISTERS HUSBAND odysseus who started this goddamn mess by DOXXING THEMSELVES TO A CYCLOPS???? WHO ODYSSEUS???????? WHOOOOO?????

[albumstar]

Something I'm starting to notice about this fandom; y'all can like Epic's version of Odysseus without trying to paint Calypso as a rapist.

Odysseus in the original tale did cheat on his wife. Several times. And there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. But trying to paint him as blameless and all the other women as rapists for seducing him is not the winning move y'all think it is.

Like Tiktok is becoming the worst when it comes to the topic of Calypso.

[odyssiaca]

odysseus is generally seen as 'morally ambiguous' due to his not always being seen as the best of people- but this is a very modern and feminist take, and whilst nothing is inherently wrong with the idea of feminist takes and retellings, it skews what we have and already know of the myths, and this can be seen most predominantly in the character of odysseus. odysseus is two things:

- not meant to a hero

- not meant to be good

he is written as a man faced with impossible odds, and who loses some- if not all- of his morality in doing so. BUT where does the idea of him being 'bad' come from? the penelopiad by margaret atwood, a woman known for being quite vitriolic towards men of any kind. in recent years, people have picked up on three major things from the odyssey:

- the hanging of the maids

- odysseus cheating on his wife

- odysseus going mad at the end

NOW, to break it into points:

the hanging of the maids is so often seen in a feminist light due to margaret atwood, where odysseus is painted as some cruel, vile, disgusting predator who loathes women. this isn't true to the odyssey AT ALL. in the odyssey it is explicitly stated by the nurse that raised telemachus: 'i shall single out those who betrayed you, my lord' and by one of the maids herself- melantho: 'if we sleep with the suitors, when they become king we will be in favour with him.' and THIS is why he killed the maids. not because he was insane, not because he was bad, but because they had betrayed not just him- but his wife. not all the maids were killed, only those who slept with the suitors. the argument most often used for this is that the women couldn't say no, but this goes against what the maids themselves say in the odyssey when they believe no one to be watching.

odysseus cheating on his wife HE DIDN'T. but he is a man, and as a man, he cannot be raped. he is a terrible man for sleeping with circe and calypso when he could have- as epic decides to say- say no. which is untrue!! these are goddesses. titanesses. circe is the daughter of helios, and calypso is daughter of atlas. they could overpower him simply by looking at him. circe turned his men to pigs, even with the moly she could have easily done the same- or worse- to him. the idea of him choosing to and being unfaithful stems from madeline miller's, Circe which whilst not inherently bad, goes out of its way to put all men in a terrible light, because the heroes deserves no rights in feminist retellings. odysseus wanted to say no, but could not as hermes explicitly told him he couldn't. on the flip side, calypso threatens, ensnares him and only releases him when told to by hermes and the council of the gods. in the odyssey it is literally stated: 'and odysseus stayed on the shores weeping for home before joining the nymph in her bed.' he did not WANT to sleep with calypso, but was left with no other choice but to do so. this is a recurring theme for calypso.

but he is blamed due to his gender, and the idea of 'feminism' and 'patriarchy'.

and now, the real reason for odysseus being seen badly:

the telegony the telegony is a myth written after the odyssey with telegonus- son of circe and odysseus- as the main character. in this he travels to find his father and meet him, but accidentally kills him on the shore. (peneleope marries telegonus, and circe marries telemachus) but this is where the idea of odysseus' insanity comes from. in the telegony, it is stated he went mad after the war, and couldn't survive without bloodshed, and so he went out seeking war, and women, and battle, and went mad in this.

the statement: 'generous to odysseus' is wholly unfair, because he is a man forced to lose everything, assaulted, violated, tortured and imprisoned with no hope of survival. he goes to war knowing he won't return for 20 years, won't see his wife, and won't watch his son grow. he is a man not a god, or a demigod. he's just some dude doing his best.

[blessedbyahuntress]

Blessed by a Trickster

Chapter Four: The Scary Part? He's Tiny

Prev/Next

Warnings: None!

Word Count: 763

You stood at the helm of the ship, next to Eurylochus, who kept glancing at you when he thought you weren’t looking. He’s rather awful at judging that.

“Is something wrong?” You asked, turning to him.

“What?”

“You keep looking at me weirdly.”

Eurylochus hummed, debating whether or not to tell the truth. He settled with telling half of it.

He shrugged. “Nothing’s wrong.”

You raised an eyebrow. “I don’t believe you in the slightest.”

Eurylochus was saved from having to try and stutter out an excuse by Polites, who sprinted up to you, barely acknowledging the second in command’s presence with a small nod as he turned to you.

Polites’s glasses kept slipping off his nose and he continued to adjust them as he spoke. “There’s an island- Ody thinks it might be- what the lotus eaters were- talking… about.”

You blinked. “Oh,” was all you said.

Polites raised his eyebrows. “Oh?” He demanded. “That’s the first thing you think to say?” You shrugged. “Pretty much, yeah.”

Eurylochus snorted in amusement and Polites narrowed his eyes mockingly at his friend.

Then the world seemed to move in slow motion. Eurylochus was speaking to you, but you couldn’t hear a word he was saying. You yourself seemed to move fine; you could shake out the stiffness in your arms and legs in normal time. You snapped your fingers in front of Polites’s face, but you didn’t get a reaction.

You heard laughter from above your head, and you looked upward.

“Reveal yourself,” you ordered.

“Hm… I don’t think I will.”

You smirked. “I meant, please reveal yourself, Lord Hermes.”

A handsome yet short man appeared before you. He had a mop of curly light brown hair and a black mask covering his eyes. The snakes that were curled around his staff flicked their tongues at you as the tiny wings on his sandals flapped. “How did you-” He looked down at himself in surprise and yelped. 

He gave you a reproachful look. “Please don’t do that again, little lady,” he said, shaking his caduceus at you.

You crossed your arms. “Hello, Lord Hermes. Please stop stalking me.”

Hermes giggled and glided around you, studying your stance and scars. “Now, now,” he chided. “You shouldn’t talk to a potential patron like that!”

You raised your eyebrows. “Patron?” You asked, unable to keep the skepticism from your voice.

“Oh, yes.” Hermes came to a stop in front of you, still hovering a few feet above the ground. “I’ve been watching you for quite some time, Y/N of Ithaca.”

“Yeah, I sort of got that part. Your voice in my head and all.”

Hermes laughed again. “Ooooh. Quick-thinker, too, I see.” The tips of his sandals skimmed the deck of the ship as he looked at you thoughtfully. “I think of myself as lucky to have reached you first, before any other god could offer to be your mentor.”

You blinked.

“Come on,” the god urged. “I’m sure Odysseus has told you of his own mentor, Athena? Shame she abandoned him.”

“I-I…” You couldn’t finish, your mind skimming through the possibilities of how this could end. “What could you offer? Why should I not wait for a different god or goddess like Ares or Artemis?”

“So glad you asked!” Hermes beamed. “I am the god of thieves. I will teach you how to steal more than objects in the heat of the moment. I will teach you how to detangle hidden meanings and important information from the most confusing of sentences.”

You tilted your head slightly. That skill sounded useful.

“I am the god of travelers,” he continued. “I can aid you in your journey home.”

“I am the god of speed. I can train you so hard, you’ll have more stamina than any man. You’ll be as fast as Achilles was.”

“I am the god of language, and I can teach you the skill of negotiating-”

“Let me sleep on it,” you interrupted.

“Oh.” Hermes gave you a sad smile. “You won’t be sleeping tonight.”

“What do you-”

Suddenly everything sped up, leaving you stumbling. Eurylochus grabbed your shoulders to steady you. You could feel Polites’s concerned gaze on your back as you grabbed Eurylochus’s forearms in an attempt to make the world stop spinning.

“Whoa,” Eurylochus said as you swayed slightly. “What’s wrong, Y/N?”

You opened your mouth to respond, only to slump forward.

“I forgot about how fragile mortals are,” Hermes giggled inside your head. “You might be having that sleep earlier than either of us expected.”

Then you blacked out.