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fandom-susceptible · 5 months ago

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Horns and Antlers: Elves

Just a moment of nerding out to help fuel everyone's The Dragon Prince elf horn headcanons, here's the national park service's breakdown of horns vs antlers:

"Antlers—found on members of the deer family—grow as an extension of the animal’s skull. They are true bone, are a single structure, and, generally, are found only on males.

Horns—found on pronghorn, bighorn sheep, and bison—are a two-part structure. An interior portion of bone (an extension of the skull) is covered by an exterior sheath grown by specialized hair follicles (similar to human fingernails). Horns are usually found on both males and (in a diminutive form) females.

Antlers are shed and regrown yearly while horns are never shed and continue to grow throughout an animal’s life. One exception is the pronghorn, which sheds and regrows its horn sheath each year." (source)

Summarized!

Antlers are made of bone and shed every year

Horns are made of bone with an outer covering of keratin (the stuff fingernails, hooves, and hair is made of), and don't tend to shed.

The sexual dimorphism is different too, antlers are usually exclusively a male thing where horns may differ from male to female but usually both have them.

(caribou have antlers on both males and females, though in different seasons, and pronghorns shed parts of their horns every year though, so there's flexibility within the general rules!)

(deeper dive of science and how it connects to the show under the cut, but CW for blood and arguable gore, as the science of antlers is a bit graphic, but I wouldn't say it's worse than certain deaths that occurred in season 7.)

Because they are made of bone at the core, horns are likely to bleed when broken closer to the base, but de-horning/trimming the tips off of horns is commonly done in cattle to keep them from injuring themselves or each other with no adverse effects for the animal. Imagine a much larger version of trimming the claws of a cat or dog - the tips are fine to go, but get too close to the base and you're hitting live tissue and veins.

Antlers have a different growth cycle. When they first grow, they're covered in a thin skin and fur layer called velvet, which is absolutely riddled with blood vessels to bring nutrients to the antler. If the velvet is broken, it will bleed, and scraping the velvet off is often a very bloody affair. Shedding it is literally just . . . scraping off a layer of skin and letting the antler wear and harden, it looks brutal, but the deer don't seem to be particularly distressed about it. If the antler is broken while it's still in velvet, it will bleed. If it's finished growing, though, an antler will calcify and harden, meaning there won't be blood in the antler itself once the velvet is removed (unlike horns). That's why the stumps don't bleed when they're shed later in the year. (source)

On that note, neither antlers nor horns have nerves the way the rest of the body does.

Antlers only have nerves in the velvet, and those are shed with the skin when the antlers are done growing. Again, despite the velvet being actual skin with nerves in it, they don't seem to mind it! I'm no professional, but I would hazard a guess that since there's no further need for extra blood to the area to grow the horn, reduced blood flow results in reduced sensation as they go to shed the velvet.

Horns don't have nerves in the tip, which is how dehorning can be done safely with cattle. When the horns first start to grow, the nerve and bloodless tip will be most of it, and it can be removed without harm to the animal, and if that trim is maintained, it will never grow longer horns. However, once a longer horn is grown, there are nerves in the thicker base just as there is blood.

Now because the Tidebound exist though, I'm going to delve into coral and shells for a second too, though mind, I don't know any of this shit nearly as well as I know horns (lived around cattle and deer) so this is what I could glean from some basic research and is by no means definitive

Coral don't have nervous systems the way we would think of them at all, with only the most basic of nerve nets throughout their bodies allowing them to react, and only minorly, to stimuli. Many scientists believe this means they don't feel pain as we would perceive it, but rather just register touch and cannot differentiate sensation. Others suggest that since they react by withdrawing from harm, this qualifies as some version of reacting to pain. However, since coral have no brains or backbones or advanced nervous systems, it's all rather theoretical. (source) So, my personal take would be that Finnegrin can probably feel things touching his "horns" regardless of where it is (where Terry probably can't at all, if he's not in velvet, and Rayla wouldn't be able to feel the tips of hers), but he wouldn't necessarily be able to differentiate what the touch is, just that it's there.

Shells are a whole different beast. The shells of vertebrates like turtles are way different than the shells of mollusks and gastropods, but the latter are the ones we see in Tidebound elves. Those are super unique in this conversation because not only do they not have nerves, those shells aren't living tissue at all. They don't even have proper cells. Those shells are constructed of very basic proteins and minerals that are hardened over time into the shell around the creature that lives inside. The shell can't be felt at all, though if the creature inside has enough of a nervous system to feel sensations, they will likely feel the shell move around them if there's contact with it. (source)

So, from what we know about elves!

If Moonshadow elves have true horns, Runaan should have been bleeding heavily for a few minutes from how low that horn was broken (though likely not enough to do him serious harm from blood loss, he'd just feel a bit iron deficient for a few days. Horns tend to clot quickly when broken). We can assume they did not do this because of the kids' rating of season 1, even if the writers knew horns should bleed. He also likely felt a significant amount of pain, and probably has a nasty headache and possibly a concussion from having his head rattled that hard.

In contrast, even if his horn was carved to fit the caps he wears, Ethari probably wouldn't have really felt it (other than vibrations in his skull). However, horns can be trained to grow in certain configurations over time, and the caps might have been a training tool to ensure they grew into the desired curve, and then just left on as decoration or armor. Moonshadow elves seem fond of dual-purpose everything, so a metal cap that's training tool, decoration, and armor all at once is right up their alley.

(on the note of Moonshadow elves, also, it seems likely that the "wood grain" we see on their horns is also willful decoration, as the Moonshadow children we witness don't have that grain, and the interior of Runaan's broken horn lacks any evidence of it. As we can see in this shot with Ruthari, the patterns also aren't of the same style from elf to elf, but the grain on Runaan's horns is mostly lines like his tattoos, and Ethari's horns and tattoos both feature delicate swirls.)

Sunfire elves definitely have horns, though they are intriguing as it seems there's not a very strong delineation between skin and horn. However, that could also just be art style, as there's plenty of horned animals that have fur or skin roughly the same color as the base of the horn around the base of it. This includes some pronghorns, which you'll remember are the neat antelope that sheds the keratin layer on their horns and regrows it but keeps the bony core, and antelope. We've pretty much covered how their horns would work with the Moonshadow elves, as they're pretty similar, though Sunfire elves' horns are smaller and their vulnerable zones would be as well, though they're also thinner and likely more vulnerable to breakage (hence, I imagine, all the armoring on them).

Skywing elves are an interesting conundrum though, because unlike Moonshadow and Sunfire elves, they have a quite varied set of horn styles. Astrid seems to have a fairly basic goat horn curve (as does Kosmo).

Nyx's horns curve so sharply that from many angles she appears to have two sets, but in her concept art we can see that she just has a secondary branch at the very base of her horns, which is reflected in Hendyr (the Skywing Dragonguard) as well. And all of these people are among the 20% of Skywing who have wings, so it's not genetically linked to that trait. The lobed pattern of Nyx and Hendyr's horns appears to be more standard, with most unnamed Skywing also having horns that are layered to look like feathers. The Elder is like this as well.

Suroh, the little Skywing boy Rayla meets in Bloodmoon Huntress, however, has goat horns like Astrid - except placed lower on his head, and having ridges that hers do not.

So far though, all of the Skywing seem to have some common traits: their horns are relatively short, and curl close to their heads, having ridges or lobes that mimic feathers. All of them resemble various types of goats, all are definitely horns.

I dunno what the fuck was wrong with this guy, why does he have dragon horns when none of the others do, what makes him special?

Everything. Everything makes Ibis special. I miss him so much.

*coughs* anyway, Skywing elves likely have a fairly strong culture of training their horns to grow in specific directions, based on the variance in how they curl. Also, if Astrid's horns continued to curl in that direction they would absolutely eventually stab her if they hadn't stopped growing or been trained to grow that far from her head. Imagine if she had the tight curl we see with Suroh but with her horn placement.

Now we get to the Earthblood, where things get more interesting.

Those are definitely goat horns, and not even decorative mimicry like Astrid's, just straight up bighorn ram. Simple. Case closed, right?

Nah.

Because this little kid is an Earthblood from the same community, who clearly seems to have branching going on in his head ornamentation already, which is generally a trait of antlers. (Though, there's those pronghorns again.) Unfortunately, we don't really see enough to confirm whether they're antlers or horns, but let's just assume antlers for the fun lore of it all. Earthblood elves start growing them at a much younger life stage than most antlered animals. It also makes sense why Earthblood elves seem to keep shorter hair than many other elves - the antlered ones have fucking velvet to worry about. Can you imagine getting dead, bloody skin out of your hair??

What's interesting is that Terry's horns do not have the branching I would expect from antlers. As a matter of fact, his horns are virtually indistinguishable from a Moonshadow elf's, though he doesn't have the purple wood grain effect we're used to seeing with them (again, my guess is that that's painted on anyway). So based on Terry alone, I would actually say he also just has horns, and N'than and Earthblood Callum (and the elves that indulge Earthblood Callum as a trope) being the only indication they sometimes have antlers.

oh but then, then we get into some Really Interesting stuff with Mukho. Look at that. Do those look like antlers? They do seem to have branching, but they also have what appears to be flat plates. I would actually hazard a guess that Mukho is one of the Earthblood we heard about back in the day, with horns of crystal or stone rather than antlers or goat horns. That one, I don't really know how to make work biologically, which is why I didn't give a rundown for it up top. This one's just magic.

The Tidebound also have some interesting shit going on, though. Finnegrin here has coral on his head, and if you remember, coral has basic nerves throughout its body but scientists debate whether it can feel pain as we understand it. My guess would be that Finnegrin and other Tidebound like him can register touch to their horns in a way that Rayla wouldn't be able to feel at the tips of hers, and an antlered Earthblood wouldn't feel unless in velvet, but he wouldn't necessarily feel pain at one of them being broken. He'd just be aware of it.

Akiyu would feel her "horns" even less, with shells being made of basic proteins and minerals and not, strictly speaking, having nerves or live tissue at all.

So! Elves have wildly varying cranial ornamentation and there's some Science about it!

Also, to veer into conjecture a bit, it's worth noting that while Moonshadow and Sunfire horns are constructed similarly, they're likely for very different evolutionary purposes. Moonshadow horns are larger, yes, but are heavily angled towards their back, indicating use either ramming with the length or base (as we see with goat horns) or defense against attacks from behind. Sunfire elf horns are smaller but often angled much more upright, indicating more ability to use them as stabbing weapons.

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amoremagnificentbastard · 18 days ago

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OC Layers Tag Game

Thank you to @nyx-knox and @hellethil for tagging me! I will be answering these as Diana would answer at the start of her longfic. Maybe when I finish the longfic I'll fill out how she'd answer at the end, too!

Edit: @mellybaggins tagged me, too -- thanks, love!

Layer One: The Outside

Name: Diana Kismet

Eye Color: Silvery blue

Hair Style/Color: Diana has bouncy, perpetually messy ginger curls. She doesn't like to tie them up, but she has an impressive collection of scarves she uses to keep those curls out of her face.

Height: 5'5"

Clothing Style: When she isn't wearing blue or silver Selûnite garb, Diana prefers to wear loose peasant blouses decorated with fine embroidery, flowing skirts, and bright, vivid colors.

Best Physical Feature(s): Diana likes her eyes, but most people comment on her hair.

Layer Two: The Inside

Fears: Diana's deepest fear is that she will never be ready to receive whatever mission Selûne has for her -- and will lose Selûne's love because of it.

Guilty Pleasure: Diana enjoys indulging herself in a little shopping spree every once in a while.

Biggest Pet Peeve: Diana can't stand kindness with strings attached. In her mind, that isn't kindness at all.

Ambition for the Future: Diana wants to fulfill Selûne's will -- whatever that might turn out to be.

Layer Three: Thoughts

First Thoughts Waking Up: Diana leaves her window open so she can hear the ocean all the time. So she wakes up to the sound of the waves and the smell of the salt air every morning, and she thinks about how nice and comforting and home that sound and smell is.

What They Think About the Most: Slavery is legal in Athkatla, where Diana is from. A lot of slaves who attempt escape find sanctuary in Moonhall, the temple in which Diana lives and works, and she spends a lot of time talking to them, praying for and with them, and helping them prepare for freedom. Along with Selûne, they're often at the forefront of her mind.

What They Think About Before Bed: Diana prays to Selûne at night when the moon is high, and when she goes to bed, she's often still thinking about whatever or whoever she spent the most time praying about that night.

What They Think Their Best Quality Is: Diana thinks her best quality is her recall. She can remember small things at the drop of a hat, whether that's pieces of doctrinal information or little details about a novice. (Please note this is what Diana thinks, not what I, her creator, think.)

Layer Four: What's Better?

Single or Group Dates?

To be Loved or Respected?

Beauty or Brains?

Dogs or Cats?

Layer Five: Do They...?

Lie: Absolutely not. Diana will get caught in two seconds if she tries. She has no poker face.

Believe in Themselves: Diana finds it easier to believe in herself when someone else expresses their belief in her. Ideally, that someone would be Selûne speaking in a vision, but affirmation from Joanna or Makrina, two of the senior priestesses at Moonhall, is always nice, too.

Believe in Love: Diana believes love in all its forms -- familial, romantic, platonic, whatever -- holds the Material Plane together. (Okay, that might be an exaggeration, but not by much.)

Want Someone: There hasn't been anyone, and Diana is content with her family, both biological and spiritual.

Layer Six: Have They Ever...?

Been on Stage? Does leading Selûnite rites at Moonhall count?

Done Drugs? No.

Changed Who They Were to Fit In? Unfortunately, yes. Diana entered Moonhall as a young girl who had no problem expressing her emotions ... only the clergy at Moonhall taught her that overt emotional displays were not reflective of Selûne. So now, when she feels strong emotions, she tends to pack them in a box so they don't come out and reflect badly on her Lady.

Layer Seven: What's Their...?

Favorite Color(s): The blue-green of the ocean and the color of moonlight.

Favorite Animal: Diana likes starfish. Finding one in a tide pool makes her very happy, but she knows better than to pick it up.

Favorite Book: Gold Amid Dragonfire, a book by the Athkatlan adventurer Donstan.

Favorite Game: Lanceboard! Diana is helping her four-year-old niece learn to play.

Layer Eight: Age

DOB: 20th of Mirtul 1470 DR

How Old Will They Be: 22

Does Age Matter: In most cases, no.

Layer Nine: Finish the Sentences

They love: Selûne, her family, and her congregation.

They feel: Good about how she's spending her time but a bit unfulfilled because she believes wholeheartedly that there is more for her to do.

They hide: Feelings of inadequacy, unworthiness, and fear.

They miss: Her sister Leilani is a sailor and she goes on trips very often. Diana misses her when she's away.

They wish: Selûne has come to Diana in visions before. She wishes Selûne would come to her again and give her some direction.

No-pressure tagging @again-please, @anacdoce, @tynithia, and @astarionsdearanastacia if y'all would like to participate!

#amy rambles #nyx-knox #hellethil #tag! you're it!#oc: diana #lore development #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 #had to do some thinking about these!#ehehehehe

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swallowtail-cherry · 11 months ago

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That isn't true at all.

Nyx loves her children and is a great mother. She may be a Primordial, but she's a loving mother and cares deeply about her children.

#I like when others make her a loving mother #i love nyx #anti lore olympus #anti lo

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crispyfishsticks · 1 year ago

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Okay I’m about to make you go DEEP into those archives.

Who’s the first ever character you drew and how did they evolve as you started drawing more? 👀👀👀

First character was a Lock named Rippington. I eventually changed his name to Xahvin, because he was named after one of my fav smooth jazz bands at the time. Used to draw him frequently and he hasn't changed much. He is large for a lesser will and is a barely tempered, seething ball of outrage. He acts as diplomat to a particularly contentious empire that alternatively keeps trying to assassinate him and bury him in unnecessary paperwork. He's scarred up for reasons, half probably from the murder attempts and half because he's combative and has tussled with other Locks in the past. Riker (Archaeon) is one of his agents, the hate is mutual.

He also dislikes Scott, the Team, and all Traders. Kitra is still his Bonded Companion and about the only peaceful thing in his existence. Outside of her, he has a fairly agreeable relationship with Vel, a human that was lent to him by Movallo (diplomat to another empire) to help with diplomat duties. Vel earns his respect and they get along OK.

Old arts:

#thank you for char questions #these are enjoyable #blast from the past #rippington #xahvin #lock lore #crispylocks #nyx-daughterofchaos98 #I should paint him again

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dandelion-blues · 5 months ago

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#11 What if...

Danny Phantom and Zagreus met?

DP x Hades crossover

Flying through the air, so free,

Gravity can’t touch me!

A Phantom,

An echo on the earth,

And yet I’ve never been so alive!

Running from infernals, trapped,

Fire burning my feet into the ground.

A Prince,

One the Fates were convinced to let exist,

And yet I feel that I do not exist at all.

Danny ‘Fenton’ Phantom flew through what he thought was the Ghost Zone. The endless greens entrapping him in a dizzying maze. Really, he should know that the name, the Realm, wasn’t given to the deathless by humans. No, the Realm was given Her name upon the very beginning, of when the stars were not yet born. When space was not even a thought. Of when the Universe had not yet exploded into existence with a BANG!

It was the Before. And in that nothingness, in the complete antisis of what the abyss should be, a sort of life grew. A Realm, living and whole, and filled with an energy so opposed to what is now known as “true life.” This was the beginning of the Infinite Realms.

So, of course, a ghost who knew not of his true denizenship would get lost in the infinity that expanded out before him.

Still, the Realm loved each of Her subjects, but She especially loved Her dear Prince as he fought off the tyrant. Therefore, She guided the young one, and oh he was oh so young compared to Her — She who existed before All. Guided Phantom to a realm within her Realm, towards another deathless Prince who yearned for freedom and stars.

Towards young Zagreus, son of Hades, cursed to an endless cycle of death and rebirth. That even the supposed life-giving air in which the living breathed in instead killed the prince. However, the Realm was truly infinite, a deathless Realm that surrounded the living, and She would never let Her subjects die upon seeing Her stars, Her sun, Her life.

Thus, the Realm set about for a duo seeking freedom and hope and acceptance to find one another. To search the stars together, escaping the bonds which chained them to the ground.

Notes:

I just wrote this today in my creative writing club and thought this would be a fun thing to post.

Don't worry, I haven't disappeared, I've just been swamped, but I do plan on posting more eventually!

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