#Not quite exact but he was talking so-

[toad-in-a-trenchcoat]

still haven’t gotten to the movie but I really like Skrael’s expression in this bit so I wanted to draw it

[gingermintpepper]

As usual I read your tags always and so you said Apollo did not ask for resurrection of Asclepius and Hyacinthus so i just wanted to share this. About Asclepius death I read it on theoi.com, that earlier authors don't make him resurrect as a god but that's a later development mentioned only by Roman authors like Cicero, Hyginus and Ovid. But still Apollo has a role in Ovid's version

Ovid, Fasti 6. 735 ff (trans.Boyle) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) : Clymenus [Haides] and Clotho resent the threads of life respun and death's royal rights diminished. Jove [Zeus] feared the precedent and aimed his thunderbolt at the man who employed excessive art. Phoebus [Apollon], you whined. He is a god; smile at your father, who, for your sake, undoes his prohibitions [i.e. when he obtains immortality for Asklepios].

So here it is actually because of Apollo the decision was taken to resurrect him as god. And with Hyacinthus, I don't think I've read about Artemis playing the primary role. I know in Sparta there was a picture of Artemis, Athena and Aphrodite carrying Hyacinthus and his sister to heaven.

This is not on theoi.com but I saw on Tumblr it's from Dionysiaca by Nonnus

Second, my lord Oiagros wove a winding lay, as the father of Orpheus who has the Muse his boon companion. Only a couple of verses he sang, a ditty of Phoibos, clearspoken in few words after some Amyclaian style: Apollo brought to life again his longhaired Hyacinthos: Staphylos will be made to live for aye by Dionysos.

So since he is singing inspired by amyclean stories it probably means in that place it was believed Apollo was the one to bring back his lover to life.

Apollo as god of order was very important so i think it shows how special these people (and admetus too) were to him that he decided to go against the order for them 🥺

ANON!! Shakes you like a bottle of ramune!! BELOVED ANON!!!!! I'm littering your face with kisses, I'm anointing you with olive oil and honey - you absolutely made my night with this because, not only did I get the pure serotonin shot of having someone interact with my tags (yippee, wahoo!!) I also got to have that wonderful feeling of "oh wow, have I misunderstood something that was integral to my understanding of this myth/figure this whole time or is this a case of interpretational differences?" which is imo vital for my aims and interests as someone who enjoys mythological content and literature.

I'll preface my response with this: Hyacinthus is by far the hardest of these to get accounts for because his revival itself, as you very astutely point out, is generally accounted for in painting/ritual format which muddies the waters on who interceded for what. I wasn't actually familiar with that passage from the Argonautica - and certainly didn't remember it so thank you very much for bringing it to my attention!

That said, what I've come to understand, both about Hyacinthus and about Asclepius is that in the accounts of their deaths, Apollo's position is startlingly clear.

For Hyacinthus, it is established time and again that Apollo would have sacrificed everything for him - his status, his power, his very own immortality and divinity. Ovid writes that Apollo would have installed him as a god if only he had the time:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses. Book X. trans. Johnston)

Many other writers too speak of how Apollo abandoned his lyre and his seat at Delphi to spend his days with Hyacinthus, but they also all agree that when it came to his death - he was powerless. Ovid gives that graphic account of Apollo's desperation as he tries all his healing arts to save him to no avail:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book X. Apollo me boy, methinks him dead. trans Johnston)

Bion, in one of his fragments, writes that Apollo was "dumb" upon seeing Hyacinthus' agony:

(Bion, The Bucolic Poets. Fragment XI. trans Edmonds)

Even Nonnus in the Dionysiaca speaks constantly of Apollo's helplessness in the face of Hyacinthus' fate where he writes that the god still shivers if a westward wind blows upon an iris:

and when Zephyros breathed through the flowery garden, Apollo turned a quick eye upon his young darling, his yearning never satisfied; if he saw the plant beaten by the breezes, he remembered the quoit, and trembled for fear the wind, so jealous once about the boy, might hate him even in a leaf...

(Nonnus, Dionysiaca, Book 3. trans Rouse)

And the point here is just that - Apollo, at least as far as I've read, cannot avert someone's death. He simply can't. Once they're already dead - once Fate has cut their string - all Apollo's power is gone and he can do nothing no matter how much he wants to. And this is, as far as I know, supported with the accounts of Asclepius as well!

Since you specifically brought up Ovid's account, I'll also stick only to Ovid's account but in Metamorphoses when we get Ovid's version of Coronis' demise, he writes that Apollo intensely and immediately regrets slaughtering Coronis. He regrets it so intensely that he, like he does with Hyacinthus, does his best to resuscitate her:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo's regret)

And like Hyacinthus, when it becomes clear that what has happened cannot be undone, Apollo wails:

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo wept.)

Unlike his mother, Asclepius in her womb had not yet died and so, with the last of Apollo's strength, he does manage, at least, to save him.

(Ovid, Metamorphoses Book Two. Apollo puts the 'tearing out' in Asclepius.)

But it goes further than even that because Ocyrhoe, Chiron's daughter, a prophetess who unduly gained the ability to directly proclaim the secrets of the Fates, upon seeing the baby Asclepius, immediately prophesies his glory, his inevitable death and then his fated ascension:

(Ovid. Metamorphoses, Book Two. Ocyrhoe's prophecy. trans Johnston)

Before she too succumbs to her hubris and is transformed by the Fates into a horse so she can no longer speak secrets that aren't hers to share.

These things ultimately are important because it establishes two very important things: 1) Apollo can't do anything in the face of the ultimate Fate of mortals, which is, of course, death and 2) even when Apollo is Actively Devastated, regretful, yearning, mournful, guilty or some unholy combination of all of the above, when someone is dead, he accepts that they are gone. Even if he is devastated by it, even if he'll cry all the rest of his days about it - if they're dead? Apollo lets them go. In Fasti, when Zeus brings Asclepius back, he does not say Apollo asked him to - Zeus, or well, in this case Jove, brings Asclepius back because he wants Apollo to stop being mad at him.

(Ovid, Fasti VI. Apollo please come home your father misses you. trans. A.S Kline)

Even Boyle's translation which you used above in your findings hints that Zeus made Asclepius a god because he wanted Apollo to stop grieving. (i.e 'smile at your father', 'for your sake [he] undoes his prohibitions')

And like, Apollo was deeply upset by Asclepius' death - apart from killing the Cyclops in anger, in book 4 of the Argonautica, Apollonius writes that the Celts believe the stream of Eridanus to be the tears Apollo shed over the death of Asclepius when he left for Hyperborea after being chastised by Zeus for killing his Cyclops:

But the Celts have attached this story to them, that these are the tears of Leto's son, Apollo, that are borne along by the eddies, the countless tears that he shed aforetime when he came to the sacred race of the Hyperboreans and left shining heaven at the chiding of his father, being in wrath concerning his son whom divine Coronis bare in bright Lacereia at the mouth of Amyrus.

It all paints a very clear picture to me. Apollo did not ask for either of them to be brought back. Though bringing them back certainly pleased and delighted him, they are actions of other gods who are moved by Apollo's grief and mourning and seek to mollify him. Him not asking doesn't mean he didn't want them back which I think is a very important distinction by the by, but it simply means that Apollo knows the natural order of things and, even if it hurts, he isn't going to press his luck about it.

Which, of course, brings us to Admetus. And I'm really not going to overcomplicate this, Admetus is different because, very vitally, Admetus is not dead. Apollo can't do a thing once Fate has been carried out and Death has claimed a mortal but you know what he absolutely can do? Bargain like hell with the Fates before that point of inevitability. And that's what he does, ultimately for Admetus and Alcestis. He sought to prolong Admetus' life, not revive him from death or absolve him from death altogether and even after getting the Fates drunk, he's still only able to organise a sacrifice - a life for a life - something completely contingent on whether some other mortal would be willing to die in Admetus' place and not at all controllable by Apollo's own power.

All of these things, I think come back to that point you made - that Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore these people are very special to him if it means he's willing to go against that order but, I also wish to challenge that opinion if you'd let me. Apollo's place as a god of order is very important and therefore, I would argue, that it is even more important that it is shown that he does not break the divine order, especially for the people that mean the most to him. The original context of my comments which started this conversation were on this lovely, lovely post by @hyacinthusmemorial which contemplated upon Asclepius from the perspective of an Emergency Medical personnel and included, in their tags, the very poignant lines "there's something about Apollo letting go when Asclepius couldn't that eats my heart away" and "you do what you can, you do your best, but you don't ever reach too far" and I think that's perfectly embodied with the Apollo-Asclepius dichotomy. Apollo grieves. He wails, he cries, he does his best each and every time to save that which is precious to him but he does not curse their nature, he does not resent that they are human and ultimately, he accepts that that which is mortal must inevitably die. There is nothing that so saliently proves that those who uphold rules are also their most staunch followers - if Apollo wants to delight in his place as Fate's mouthpiece, he cannot undo Fate. And, if even the god of healing and order himself cannot undo death, what right does Asclepius, mortal as he is, talented as he is, have to disrespect it?

The beauty of these stories isn't that Apollo loved them enough to bring them back. The beauty is that Apollo loved them enough to let them go.

[agrebel18]

diversity win!! the eshay giving you food and drugs is asexual!!

[23and05]

If I was to write a Merlin season 6/spin off, it'd look like this:

Firstly it's set now. Merlin has been moving around different places when he grows out of them (i.e. needs to move on because he's immortal) he's currently working in a library and that's where he meets 'Arthur'. Oh he'd also have an Irish accent because one of the worst things BBC Merlin did was not allow Colin to keep his accent.

I picture him having a different name so when 'Arthur' catches him staring and Merlin introduces himself using his real name 'Arthur' is confused because that's not the name on his badge. Merlin says he feels like he knows 'Arthur' and it turns out to be a reincarnation type thing. Does that make sense ??? So it is Arthur, but he doesn't know it, cue Merlin having to draw the memories out of him.

I feel like a cute detail could be Arthur had a child who's flown the nest so there's loads of pictures of them together in his flat.

Other details, Merlin freaks out waking up for the first time in Arthur's bed.

They go skinning dipping in the lake of Avalon, because Merlin says its where he comes when he's overwhelmed, it's like his little spot. Arthur maybe remembers here ? Or at least feels something. Like a pull, something like that ??

The series would end with a pull back shot of some piece of art in a museum/gallery of merlin and Arthur (idk if one exists, there is surely some of king Arthur, but you get the gist) where we see merlin ans arthur holding hands stood in front of it.

There are so many song potentials, but I feel like ii hands ii heaven by Beyoncé playing in the background when they first remeet would be so perfect. Just catching the end of the song where 'I've been waiting my whole life, for you and I' is sung in stunning harmonies.

[sskk-manifesto]

Ep 6!!!

[scarletiswailing347]

discliamer since i havent really done that for these kinds of posts and i feel like this one is worded in a more demanding way than i usually do: any post of mine regarding what the ccs "should" do is less me actually wanting them to do what i say and more me speculating on the kinds of actions that they could take, not cause i think im smart or tactical or anything but because this is my idea of what fun is

im watching the tower vod rn and i think the only real way to deal with minute and jumper at this point in the server is to. not

like it probs wont be satisfying to the PlayersTM considering the kind of ppl they are (proactive, confrontational, plays along with the spirit of the server, self-focused morals) but considering the kind of ppl minute and jumper are (reactive, avoidant, prioritizes survival even if it means not great content, normative morals) i think its the only real way to engage with them when it comes to this kind of recursive conflict

like everytime they confront one another it keeps circling back to this moral debate regarding the ethics of killing ppl on fucking Lifesteal of all things and i highly doubt its ever gonna stop (at least for this season) considering none of the new members have really been traumatized the lifesteal way, i dont mean regular smp trauma like war and betrayal and all that jazz cause theyve already got that, i mean Lifesteal trauma: the realization that everything is a cycle, that good and evil doesnt matter, that feeling of hope shattering over and over again, that realization that in the grand scheme of things your ideals dont matter and the only thing you can truly hope for in the server are teammates and allies that wont backstab you, and that even then thats a tall order

so back to Not dealing with jumpertech, i dont mean forgetting what they did, i mean actively avoiding them, acting irrationally scared of them even when theyre being civil, fully putting them in the role of big scary villains, basically still putting what they did at the very forefront but acting like its an insurmountable trauma, planting doubt in their status as heroes, continually being the aggressors just cements in their minds that yes they are the heroes and that yes they are doing the good things

like whether the PlayersTM like it or not this is an unstoppable force vs immovable object kind of situation except the unstoppable force has more to lose by virtue of having a goal that can easily be tided by the immovable object

and i do think they can pull it off, they can lose a fight and lose so much that it breaks their spirit, like jumpertech have both been in kings, they both know how determined at least zam and mapicc are, surely it would be really offputting to see someone youre so used to seeing never giving up to do just that

[marsbotz]

Saw your tag saying FSM haters come fight you. Here I am! Frankly I'm not so much of a hater as I am just of the opinion "wow this guy sure Started All This Shit" but I'm absolutely willing to hear your view of the matter if you're willing to share! Love some Friendly Fandom Discourse (it's healthy tbh) come at me bro 👊 👊 👊

HI LOL.... my personal opinion is that the FSM gets a lot of hate for similar reasons to wu (which i also think are unjustified but that's a different post). like you said he gets a lot of the blame put on him for starting everything that's to come in the show, but i don't really feel like he intended to do any harm.

the FSM was born into a war. when he was still a very young child, he was forced to choose one side of himself, of his family, and destroy the other. and so he ran away. but this world he runs to is chaotic and dangerous. and so again, he is forced to fight for the right to live in peace along with the inhabitants of this world.

but even in this new world, he wasn't safe: the oni followed him, determined to bring him back to fight for them. and after them, the overlord. his whole life, especially when he was younger, he had been fighting, or running from forces that aimed to destroy him.

i believe the FSM was incredibly paranoid throughout his life, worrying that at any moment everything would be ripped away from him. this can be seen in how secretive he was, how much of his history is hidden away. the mech used to win the war against the overlord was sealed away where it could never be found. he granted elemental powers to select people to help keep him safe. even in his death, he hid away, in a place that even wu could not find.

this paranoia carries on through his sons. he taught them both to fight, to protect themselves, when they were also very young. one of the earliest moments we see of them is them fighting with swords! and though he loves them, they are not immune to his secrecy, or his fears. when they steal the scrolls and enter the serpentine territory, he never fully trusts them again. when garmadon gets bitten and starts to turn to evil, he's desperate to cure him. and i don't fully believe that the FSM intended to make garmadon feel broken or "wrong"... just that his fear has so consumed him at this point that he can't see the damage he's doing to his children.

it's also worth noting that despite garmadon's corruption, the FSM never truly hated him. he was left to protect the golden weapons alongside wu, he recieved the same protective enchanted gi, and was left the same clues to find him after his death. it's just that garmadon was unable to see this through the corruption (which is another post).

perhaps all he did was to protect his sons. that seems to be how wu sees it, at least. because wu repeats this same behaviour with the ninja, even if unintentionally. he brings these kids into a war because that happened to him, and his father before him. maybe he doesn't even realise it's wrong. he hides things from them not only because because he's ashamed of his past (again, another post lol), but because his father always hid things from him. it protects wu, but it also protects the ninja.

i don't believe the FSM was a flawless person. hes one of many grey characters in ninjago, and to boil down everything he did to "good" or "bad" is a disservice. maybe you see him as someone who only ever ran from problems instead of truly solving them, maybe you see him as a cruel and neglectful father. and maybe those are both true. but he's also someone who always tried to fight for peace, for himself and everyone in ninjago, and someone who truly loved his sons, despite the damage he did to them both.

so that's who i think the FSM was. an immortal, all powerful godlike being, yes, but also a scared child who just wanted to live peacefully, and would do anything to prevent another war. and maybe he is, in some way, indirectly responsible for every bad thing in the show, but i think this is more of an after-effect of the countless wars and conflict. he did the best he could, and considering all he went through, i think he did alright.

[starlooove]

“There is no fanfic on Stephs treatment I have checked” that’s like the whole point.

[cheeseknives]

Clarkson wearing exactly same outfit as in those classic promo pictures u see when you Google them at the track feels, weird but I can't quite pinpoint why

[pa-pa-plasma]

i don't think i'll ever get over how people treat kids that aren't good in school as worthless no matter what. "oh it can't be that bad" my guy idk how to tell you this but the last time i went to a normal high school the principal called me into his office to brag about how he failed me in all of my classes before the semester was even finished & i should quit while i'm ahead cuz i'm too stupid ("officially" diagnosed as such by a school counselor & a psychiatrist!!) to succeed. & this is considered normal

[inundatae]

i do think it is exceedingly frustrating that we don't have a lot of information on the governance of fontaine. and in particular how much of an active role neuvillette has in it. especially in regards to the missed opportunity of what this leadership means to neuvillette.

we have this man who, while human shaped, is so far removed and isolated from humanity, placed in a position of having to rule them. especially when neuvillette at the start of his tenuredisdained humanity and likely would have been glad to see them removed from the equation or at least have nothing to do with them.

how lost in the weeds can he be focusing on merely the administrative aspects of ruling fontaine? he doesn't leave his office as we've had several instances of his own people being excited and shocked to see him and furina herself trying to push him to go out and interact with people more. then we have navia who straight up says that neuvillette has such a black and white view of the world, that he cares more about following the letter of the law than anything else. it's no wonder his lens of fontaine is through whatever crosses his desk. that he overlooks so much since this man just does not read between the lines.

but with the conclusion of his sq and fontaine aq, i have a small hope that moving forward he takes this opportunity to make fontaine better. he has people at his side who have experienced the ugly parts of fontaine and i truly hope that he sets up a system in which said people are given more power and influence to set up the change that fontaine needs, basically for neuvillete to stop being the one man gonverment that he's become and for that power to be spread a little more and for him to step away from tasks that shouldn't require his personal attention and allow him to focus on actively ruling.

quite frankly i really don't think he should remain as the chief justice as that's such a time consuming role for someone who is supposed to be ruling a nation. or at least he shouldn't be presiding over too many trials unless they're very super critical and necessary for his attention.

[omarwolaeth]

It's such a tiny innocuous thing that really doesn't matter, but I feel like calling duel monsters a children's card game (when it's fundamentally baked into everyday life, and your social existence is judged by what you play and how you play it so very intensely, for everyone in-universe) is an absolute injustice to what it is for that universe of people.

[corset]

I cannot believe that some of my coworkers and even my boss who has worked in assisted living for decades will outright talk about how “unbelievable” (negative) it is that someone will walk with a cane when they TECHNICALLY can walk without one, or act like it’s bad that one of our residents who TECHNICALLY can walk with a cane uses a wheelchair most of the time. How do you not understand the basics of disability. And do you really have so little respect for disabled people and the people we are supposed to be taking care of and showing dignity that you’re willing to be talking about them like this behind their backs in our staff meeting like a bunch of juvenile high schoolers????

[ocarinaofpride]

my ffxiv wol has an alluring charm not even emet selch can resist Hes that badass (actual dumbass but its ok) (he actually has major beef with him but when he got to see emet in the past its like getting in his pants was his main goal God please strike him down) i hope you guys like him. everyone loving him is his main schtick okay He is self aware about how much people wanna kiss him. fuck you sephi. get a job. you dont deserve to be the warrior of light

[sskk-manifesto]

Ep 4 :)

[chromotps]

The thing about Ace/Sabo is that the ship is less about them being brothers but more like them sharing a childhood friendship? That had the potential of becoming something more in the future. Except it didn’t, for obvious reasons. And yeah not everyone’s a fan of that, but people also like the raised by wolves/son of a noble dynamic they had as children. While I agree Sabo does kind of feel like he was stuck to Ace&Luffy as an afterthought, with a piece of chewed-out gum — his existence doesn’t… I don’t know, feel out of place? I also enjoy how kinda tragic his character is, and how he carries that tragedy with him? In the form of Ace’s devil fruit (Sabo also canonically hallucinates and there was an instance where he admitted to hearing Ace’s voice, during his fight with Burgess? so yeah, not everyone’s cup of tea again but I’m a huge fan of hurt/comfort so having a character go through a psychotic depressive episode because of the insane guilt he feels? Just, yeah. Plus there’s something really poetic about him literally eating Ace’s DF and still considering it „Ace’s powers” etc) and the way I see Sabo/Lu is through Ace/Lu (and partially Ace/Sabo) anyway. Because Sabo is trying to fill out the role of an older brother/friend for Luffy that he’s well aware is impossible to fill — because nothing ever will be the same for Luffy. Nothing or no one could even come close to making it up for Ace’s loss to Luffy, and Sabo knows he’s kind of a cheap copy of that (figuratively and literally lmfao, as I know people have been calling him low-budget Ace), but still he tries to? And the fact that Luffy is technically his only remaining family (or at least someone he willingly considers family). And I kind of see it as a parallel to how Ace’s approach to Luffy changed after Sabo’s „death”? Because Sabo was the „kinder” brother, the nicer one, the smarter one, it was usually him who took Luffy’s side whenever Ace was annoyed with him? And the one who explicitly asked Ace to look after Luffy — which then was one of the direct reasons why Ace changed the way he treated Luffy, forced him to be more patient/learn to love and eventually led to Ace willingly becoming the „older brother” figure for Luffy. I’m in no way trying to convince you to like Sabo, don’t get me wrong!! I’m just trying to show an example how Ace/Sabo isn’t necessarily brotherly either (like, I don’t know, Sabo/Luffy seems to be?). And it’s just that while I’m first and foremost a huge Ace/Lu enjoyer I also think Sabo did have a significant impact on their relationship both before and after Ace’s death.

((!! sorry i took a while to reply! i made that post before work on Friday and then got slammed until just now fdghjgk)

the odd thing is, I mostly agree!! I think I had to vent bc i saw ppl (a few specific sabo fans haha) on twitter acting like luffy would feel nothing toward ace but be obsessed with sabo. and, lol, no. but what YOU said makes total sense. like, yes, Ace + Sabo definitely has a different, more involved feeling to me than Ace & Luffy. I've had some ships in the past that fit the raised by wolves/runaway noble trope... the charm of the noble feeling like "this is the only person I feel like I can really be myself around" and the wild one thinking "i like spending time with this noble—they're tougher/kinder/funnier than i gave them credit for" AND/OR "society has always rejected me, but this 'cultured' person accepting me heals that pain a little bit"—all of those things are really charming.

Maybe if we'd seen more about how ace and sabo became friends, or if there were more emphasis on sabo's acceptance being what helped ace's anger (instead of, just from how i saw things, it being mostly luffy's unconditional warmth toward ace that did it?) then I'd personally be more feral about that dynamic, haha. But it's like you said, I guess it all depends on what we each connect with. I dont find tragedy alone compelling... I'm depressed enough already as it is LMAO!! if I think too hard about how viscerally sad Sabo only remembering Ace after he'd died is, my brain just shuts down. But I've got really good friends who would EAT THAT UP. Like, yeah, it is beautifully poetic... hahaha now i'm laughing thinking about my friends who were really into Hamlet and Romeo & Juliet finding out about Sabo & Ace and being obsessed, ahaha (they're not so into One Piece tho, only jjk... at least, for now!! 😈)

it's hard to put into words, but there's something about Sabo being a revolutionary vs. ace and luffy being pirates, that kind of explains why my brain sees A+L as very very very different than A&S or L&S. But like, that's just my brain and how my heart likes to focus on characters with really codependent relationships/dreams/themes, hahaha...