#Mourning Jason Todd

[bluejaysandblackbats]

You're Just Like Quicksand

Fandom: DC Comics, Batfam, Batman Beyond

Summary: Jason Todd is ready to go into semi-retirement after fifteen years working with troubled youth, but one case in particular forces him to confront the sins of his youth and painful memories from his past.

Chapters: 15/?

Characters: Jason Todd, Terry McGinnis, Warren McGinnis, Mary McGinnis, Matt McGinnis, Bruce Wayne, Original Character(s)

Relationship(s): TBA

Additional Tags: Protective Jason Todd, Good Sibling Jason Todd, Retired Jason Todd, Multiple POV, Hurt/Comfort, Parent-Child Relationships, Canon Divergent AU, Angst, Mourning Jason Todd

Chapter Fifteen: Back of the Closet (Jason's POV)

Every day after I finished dropping Terry off, I spent a few minutes getting Avery-Marie cleaned up for dinner, and I checked on Andrew in his room. He’d taken up painting as a hobby, and he rarely came out of his room for anything. It was our normal. I knocked on the door frame, and Andrew looked up from his painting. “Whatcha working on, Drewby?” I asked. 

“Mom’s garden,” Andrew answered. I sat beside him, rustling a hand through his hair, and I kissed his temple. It’d been two years, and I still couldn’t get past the joy I felt looking at his face every day. “How was your day? Is your friend’s son okay?” 

“Uh-huh… I’m worried Powers is after him because of something his father found out… I’m gonna have someone look into it,” I answered. Andrew looked at me. 

“Are you gonna put the helmet back on?” Andrew questioned. I shook my head. 

“I don’t want to. I wanna see if the authorities can suss this out without help… Did you go to therapy today?” I questioned. Andrew nodded. I never pushed him to talk about it, but he’d tell me sometimes if he was in the mood to talk. Andrew continued to work on his painting. 

“I talked about you today… And Mom… Why weren’t you and Mom getting along?” What happened?” Andrew asked. It was a long time coming, but I was surprised he finally asked me about it. 

“It was my fault… I didn’t pay enough attention to her, and I never listened to her pleas about making nice with your grandfather. She just wanted me to work through my trauma. And I wanted to close it off and pretend it didn’t matter,” I answered, “Your mother was the sweetest woman I ever met. She was a good wife and an amazing mother. We weren’t gonna divorce… I would’ve stayed with her forever if I could’ve.”

Andrew smiled. I’d been seeing a lot more of that recently. Avery-Marie finished taking her bath, and she knocked on the door. “Uncle Andy,” Avery-Marie whispered as she knocked on the door. “Uncle Andy, can I show you something?” 

Andrew stopped painting, handed me his brush, and he let Avery-Marie in. He never turned her away. Even on his bad days, he gave her his full attention, showering her with love and affection like he used to do with Maggie. He picked her up and kissed her cheek. “What is it, Sugar Plum?” Andrew asked. 

“I made you something,” Avery-Marie whispered. She always whispered to him. He set her down, and she ran to grab her backpack before returning with a handmade suncatcher. “Grandpa put his present in the car.” 

Andrew opened his window and taped it there. “Wow. Thank you so much, Avie. Every time it’s sunny, I’ll be able to open my curtains and see the rainbow. This is so nice,” Andrew grinned. 

“I’m gonna start dinner,” I whispered to excuse myself. Andrew would help Avery-Marie with her homework while I cooked. It always calmed my nerves. I liked dinnertime. It was the only time I had to clear my head and focus on a single task. I didn’t have to think about Abigail surrendering custody of Avery-Marie to me. I didn’t have to think about Michael being tangled up in the magic scene in Louisiana. I didn’t have to think about Andrew’s agoraphobia. When I cooked, it was just me and the stove. Today, I made burgers and french fries. It was Avery-Marie’s favorite. I brought our meal to Andrew’s bedroom, and we ate at the little table by his closet. Avery-Marie sat on my knee while we ate. Andrew took his pills with dinner. After dinner, I put a movie on for Avery-Marie, and Andrew took a nap beside her. 

**

When nighttime came, Andrew listened to the police scanner before bed. “That’s a code I haven’t heard in a while,” Andrew whispered. 

“What’s that, Drew?” I questioned. 

“The code for masked vigilantes. At Wayne Powers on the roof. Do you think it’s Grandpa?” Andrew asked. I shook my head. “Dad?”

“It’s Terry,” I answered. There was no doubt or hesitation in me when I said it. It had to be Terry, and I felt my blood run cold. Andrew frowned and nodded at me. 

I shook my head, feeling torn between my duty to Warren and his family, and my duty to my family. It felt like the same thing. Warren, Mary, Terry, and Matt felt like family… But Andrew grabbed my hand. “You stepped away because you didn’t want to hurt kids… Now you have the chance to save one. Go ahead, Dad,” Andrew reassured me, “Don’t be gone too long, or I’ll call Uncle Dick.”

“Uncle Dick is in California,” I whispered before kissing his forehead, “Comms are in my bedroom.” 

I left the room and got dressed in the last model of my costume. I hadn’t worn it since the kids were babies. They knew about it. That wasn’t a secret to them. 

I took my motorcycle through the old passageways to get there faster, and I could tell from the sound of the security guards that Terry was there already. I turned comms on, calling straight to the cave like old times, hoping someone was on the other line. “Anyone on the line?” I questioned. 

“Hood?” Bruce’s voice half-exclaimed on the other line. 

“What’s his location and why would you let him wear the—?” I heard a gunshot and a hissing noise before looking up to see Terry in the Batman suit tailing a plane. “He can’t do this on his own—.” 

“The kid is in the suit against my wishes… But he’s got it under control. He’s got a natural talent for this… Go home, Hood. Stepping in now would only jeopardize his safety. Unless you’d like to talk about—.” 

“Listen here, you sick old man. I’m only coming there, so I can chew you out for allowing this curse to take another kid,” I whispered. The drive to the cave felt like it took an eternity, but it was only a few minutes. Bruce sat in his chair, looking more alive than I’d seen him in years. He had a distinct twinkle in his eye. I hadn’t seen that in him since I was a little boy. 

“He said he’s heading straight home… I didn’t know he was one of your kids. If I did, I wouldn’t have hit him so hard when I caught him down here. What’s your opinion on his mental state?” Bruce asked. 

I couldn’t lie to him. “Terry craves adrenaline, and he’s smart… Intuitive and compassionate. He has a record and a past, but that’s not reflective of how strong his conscience is. Terry feels guilty for things that he’s done, and he has a strong desire to set things right even if they seem completely out of his control. He’s deeply empathetic… More than anyone I’ve ever seen, and I originally planned on partnering him up with a defense attorney before I took a step back from work two years ago… I’m not gonna be able to talk him out of this, am I? And I can’t tell his mother. That’d kill her,” I answered. 

“He reminds me of you… He’s got a smart mouth, but I think that comes with being a teenager,” Bruce replied. 

“You like him… You lonely old—. You want him back here, don’t you?” I questioned. 

“This city’s falling apart. I think he’s fresh, and I appreciate his raw talent. If you say no, I’ll respect that—.” 

“But he won’t. I know how this works,” I interrupted. I wanted to blame Bruce this time, but I knew it was as much his curse as mine.

[the-thing-inside-your-closet]

Something something Danny learns that Jason died and crawled out of his own grave.

Danny, to Jason: You actually got a grave?

Jason: Why? You want one?

He doesn’t notice how this could potentially sound like a threat from an outsider’s perspective.

[prlssprfctn]

We as society really underestimate the concept of Jason hallucinating Sheila of all people. Yes, of course, hallucinating himself, or Joker, or even Willis and Bruce is interesting, but what about Sheila? This woman single-handedly shattered Jason's last drops of belief in parents... Do we really think it doesn't hunt him, the last images of hers, in that warehouse?

From all moments they shared there, I also think it is not the image of Sheila trying to escape along with him in the last minutes, clinging into him helplessly - I think, it is a blurred image of a smocking woman that turned away from him, when he was beaten. A sight he caught on the corner of his eyes, through pain and shock.

So, maybe Jason catches her reflection in the window, when he tries to smoke in his apartment - he doesn't like to do it, the feeling of smoke suffocates him, but that act helps him to pretend once that he has some control over his life and trauma - and she turns away from him again, disappointed, shaking her golden curls. Or maybe once Red Hood gets taken as a hostage by the sheer chance, ambushed or anything vaguely similar to what he had already experienced, he phantomly hears the click of the lighter, and his mother's long, drawled sigh followed by the impatient tapping of her heels against the concrete floor.

Just maybe.

But it is not like anyone else would ever know, right?

[foolsocracy]

u should draw garth and jason interacting. btw. pretty please.

shout out to when they were on a team together for about 2 issues

[wolviesdoll]

shoutout to whoever originally made this only for it to then get reposted on pinterest 🗣️

[aalghul]

jason todd when the original nightwing costume gets hate:

[fandommothfreak]

Jason Todd's ACTUAL Music Taste

(Someone has probably already done this but I am in desperate need of a reference sheet tailored to me specifically.)

Poison Idea Jason is introduced in Batman #408 (released 1987) wearing a red shirt with POISON IDEA written on the front. Poison Idea is a punk rock + hardcore punk band from Portland, Oregon. We also see a poster of the same band hanging in his apartment, so I think this is a favorite of his.

Pick Your King (released 1983)

Kings of Punk (released 1986) WARNING FOR SUICIDE + SELF-HARM TOPICS

- The Modernettes We see another poster with REBEL KIND written beneath the silhouette of four people. In the first image shown above, we can also see "rebel kind" spraypainted by Jason's apartment door. The closest match I could find for this is a song called "The Rebel Kind" by punk band The Modernettes.

This band sounds more pop punk to me (although I'm not the best at differentiating between musical subgenres), and Jason only shows interest in one of their songs. That, paired with the sound we hear from Poison Idea, makes me think Jason isn't as into pop punk as he is hardcore. This might be one of those songs where the message in the lyrics really resonates. "I know one day we're going to leave this far behind, and we'll be free to run with the rebel kind," as just one example. I think he identifies with the term "rebel kind," especially if he's the one who painted that on the wall. (I'm assuming he did.)

Here's a link to the full album, View From the Bottom (released 1982).

- Eric Peters I have no fucking idea who this is, but he's hanging on Jason's wall. He's got a hat and a guitar and a fuckass goatee (pictured in the second image, next to the Poison Idea poster). I can find one guy who only started releasing music in the 90s and another guy affiliated with DC Comics who doesn't look old enough to be referenced this way.

The hat and the guitar + straight hair combo reminds me a little of Slash + Izzy from Guns n' Roses. They released their first album like a month after Batman #408 was released, but if one of the authors saw their US tour in 1985, it could still make sense. Or they just based it off the 80s rock star aesthetic in general. Point is, I don't know. So. Eric Peters can be whatever fanon wants, I suppose. - Blister Twister (DC's KISS) + Simon & Garfunkel We see a heavy metal band, Blister Twister, perform a heavy metal cover of Simon & Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence" in Batman #412. Jason thinks it's cool.

- (UPDATE) Slipknot & Lacuna Coil Jason has posters of what looks like 1999 Slipknot (heavy metal) and Shallow Life by Lacuna Coil (goth/alternative metal) hung up in his room in Nightwing Annual 2021, which is part of the Rebirth relaunch.

Slipknot (released 1999)

Shallow Life (released 2009)

- Some concluding thoughts! (Edited to suit Jason's Rebirth music taste.) Based on what little we get, I think, as a kid, Jason leans more towards harsher music and has a preference for hardcore punk. Punk rock and garage punk are up there as well. He likes music that sounds raw and real. He'll jam to softer punk subgenres, like pop punk and post-punk, but that's more so when he really feels for the lyrics/messaging. Maybe he starts getting into the latter more as he grows up, but hardcore is still his favorite.

Metal music doesn't show up until after the Blister Twister performance, so maybe that's his introduction to the genre? It starts off as more of a superficial appreciation ("Cool!"), but then he gravitates from hardcore to nu metal (which is inspired by hardcore). A lot of people would consider Slipknot a nu metal band, and their 1999 album sounds like a mix of a few different subgenres, so maybe Jason is introduced to more of those subgenres through them. And then Lacuna Coil. I'm not familiar with them, but reddit says it's goth metal. I listened to some of their songs from Shallow Life, and I can absolutely see angsty teenager Jason resonating with those lyrics.

tl;dr I think Jason prefers the harsher subgenres of punk and metal, but still enjoys a variety of subgenres in both. Punk was his childhood; metal was his teenhood; and I'm assuming he still likes both in young adulthood. He likes the more raw, more real-sounding stuff and songs with messages that he resonates with.

Moving even more into headcanon territory: street rap, East Coast rap, lots of underground artists, that's all music Jason likes and listens to. I honestly don't think Jason would feel much of anything for mainstream pop music since it doesn't sound very raw or real and a lot of it isn't very relatable to him, but I do still think he'd jam to it occasionally for the laughs (and there might be the one-off song that does say something that resonates).

And if we're taking Jason's love for classic literature into account, then yes, I will subscribe to the headcanon that he enjoys musicals. I don't think he'd be a fanatic, but he appreciates the story and he might jam to songs that resonate with him like "The Rebel Kind" does. (I still think that's his favorite song, as a young adult.)

If anyone who sees this can find more canon hints of Jason's music taste, please, please show me! I love these little Easter eggs.

[stele3]

Me: hm, I don’t think this WIP I’m mentally batting at needs to be romantic or sexual, I kinda like the idea of Jason being sex-repulsed aroace

Someone who spends way too much time thinking about what other people do with fictional characters: SHIPPING THE BATBOYS TOGETHER IS INCEST AND DISGUSTING AND YOU NEED MENTAL HELP

Me: or I could have them fuck nasty. Out of spite.

[lonelynpc]

[bluejaysandblackbats]

You're Just Like Quicksand

Fandom: DC Comics, Batfam, Batman Beyond

Summary: Jason Todd is ready to go into semi-retirement after fifteen years working with troubled youth, but one case in particular forces him to confront the sins of his youth and painful memories from his past.

Chapters: 14/?

Characters: Jason Todd, Terry McGinnis, Warren McGinnis, Mary McGinnis, Matt McGinnis, Bruce Wayne, Original Character(s)

Relationship(s): TBA

Additional Tags: Protective Jason Todd, Good Sibling Jason Todd, Retired Jason Todd, Multiple POV, Hurt/Comfort, Parent-Child Relationships, Canon Divergent AU, Angst, Mourning Jason Todd

Chapter Fourteen: Fathers and Sons (Terry McGinnis' POV)

I hadn’t heard from Jason in over two years, but he was at the funeral. I thought it was strange. I wondered who invited him. I wondered why he stood so far away. Mom couldn’t move. She couldn’t process any of it. So, we stood beside her as everyone paid their respects and went home. They could go home. I couldn’t. I could never go home again. I had to officially move in with Mom once they let me into the crime scene that was once my dad’s apartment. Everyone left, and I stayed behind. Mom took Matt home, and Jason finally approached. I couldn’t pretend. I resented him for letting me go without a reason. So, I let him have it. I couldn’t remember what I said, but I know it was harsh. He stood there, tall and strong with sadness in his eyes. Jason didn’t move. He didn’t flinch. I tore into him until I didn’t have any other words to describe how I felt. And without missing a beat, he said, “I’m sorry I wasn’t there for you… But I knew you were good. I wouldn’t have done that if I didn’t think you could handle it… But I missed it. Every moment.”

I swallowed hard. My stomach was in knots. It only took a few little sentences for me to forgive him. I knew he’d understand my grief. My anger. My emptiness. “What are you doing here?” I questioned, my voice breaking as I asked him. 

“I promised Mary that I’d look after you while you got your things. I also promised her that I’d try to get you to eat. We could get whatever you want,” Jason whispered, “We’ll go eat… And then we’ll get your stuff. I promise.” 

“Why? Why now?” I asked. 

“Because I lost my parents as a kid. And in retrospect, I think I needed someone who could show me how to process grief without being pacified with emotionally addictive coping mechanisms. Are you alright with me coming around for a little while?” Jason questioned. I wanted to say no. I wanted to pretend I didn’t need him, but I couldn’t lie. I nodded. 

** 

After Jason took me to eat, we went to the apartment. Jason came with me, and he stood by quietly while I packed everything that I could into a box. Everything I owned fit into one big box. It made me feel sick and empty in my chest. I looked up at Jason, almost pleading for him to feel it for me. Feel my pain.  

“One of the kids in my program took my family from me. He got too attached… And he—. He developed a jealous streak. He thought I passed his case on because of my children… And he took them from me. I was afraid that those feelings would keep me from helping you… And I didn’t want to make the same mistake of passing your case onto someone else, so I stepped away. Besides, you were so independent. You didn’t need me as much. You and Warren were doing alright. But, he—. He called me. He said something changed a few months ago. What was it?” Jason questioned. The confession seemed out of place. 

“It wasn’t like that. I get into with some guy at school sometimes, but it’s—. Dad was swamped at work. He didn’t have the time to talk about it anymore… So, I stopped explaining. I’m not messing around with gangs or stealing anymore. I swear,” I promised him. He nodded. “I would’ve understood if you told me what happened to your kids. I’m sorry, Jason.”

“It’s—. Thank you… I probably should’ve explained, but I—. It’s a lot to dredge up,” Jason replied, “Which is why I want you to talk about this on your own time. I’ll be available whenever you feel like talking about him. I spent a lot of time talking to Warren. We became friends. He was kind to me.”

“What did you have in common with my dad?” I questioned. 

Jason smiled as tears slid down his cheeks. “He had a normal life… Normal problems… But this—.”

“Feels wrong… I don’t think Dad would’ve opened the door for those twips,” I interrupted him.

Jason nodded as he looked around. He must’ve seen something because his jaw tightened. “Terry, after today… don’t come back here. Something’s not right. This isn’t—. If you see something weird, I want you to call me,” Jason whispered. He stepped into the doorway, and I could tell there was something wrong in his eyes. A switch flipped, and he scanned over everything. 

“What is it?” I questioned. Jason shook his head as he took me to his car. His face went dark, and he looked around. 

“I don’t know… I just feel strange about all of this, Terry. Get in the car, and I’ll take you to Mary’s. It’s getting dark,” Jason whispered. He shut the door and got in the driver’s seat. I looked at Jason. 

“Does this mean I’m back in the program?” I asked. I felt stupid as soon as I asked it. 

“Is that what you want?” Jason questioned. 

He wanted me to say it. Not for his ego. I don’t think he had one, but it was all for me. He wanted to know what I wanted. And he needed me to ask him. I started hyperventilating, and Jason tapped the dashboard between us until I calmed down. “I don’t know what I’m gonna do without my dad,” I mumbled.

“And I can’t fill that space, but I can create a space for you to cope if you’ll let me help you,” Jason answered. 

We didn’t say anything else for the whole ride home, and he walked me up to the door and said goodbye to my mom and Matt before leaving. And somewhere in between me entering my room and seeing Matt, I dropped my dad’s picture and found the disc. And that’s when I decided to get involved with Bruce Wayne. I didn’t know much about the old man, and I didn’t really care, but I needed his help. I knew I couldn’t go to Jason because he’d tell me not to get involved. He would’ve taken over, and I wanted my own answers… and it was Mr. Wayne’s company. 

**

Jason picked me up from school after Powers’ people accosted me. He pinched the bridge of his nose, before sighing. Avery-Marie sat in the back seat, kicking her feet. She had noise-canceling headphones on. “Are you okay?” Jason asked.

“I’m alright… Is that Avery-Marie? She’s so big now,” I whispered. 

“Yeah… She’s in kindergarten… Why is Powers’ muscle hassling you?” Jason questioned. 

I shook my head like I didn’t know, and he accepted it. He knew I was lying, but he didn’t push for an answer. “Powerphones off,” Jason commanded, and Avery-Marie looked up. 

“Grandpa, can I have a cookie in the car?” Avery-Marie asked. 

“Sure, Avie. Did you see Terry in the front seat?” Jason questioned.

“Hi, Terry! Do you want a cookie too?” Avery-Marie offered. Her blonde curls reached past her shoulders, and she wore glitter star stickers on her face. “Grandpa, is Terry coming over to play?” 

Jason tapped the steering wheel as he started driving. “Not today, Sweetpea… Terry’s busy.” Avery-Marie pouted as she handed me a cookie.

“Maybe some other time… ‘Kay, Avery-Marie?” I offered. 

Jason nodded. “If he’s free, maybe he can babysit sometimes,” Jason suggested. He wanted me at the office. I knew what that meant. He wasn’t ready to let the situation with Powers go. Not completely anyway.

[everwistfully]

What if, after one too many easily avoidable scrapes and bruises, Bruce finally puts his foot down and says Robin needs to have pants.

Dick or Jason, whichever Robin it was at the time, is vehemently against it but Bruce argues he needs the protection and won’t let him continue as Robin without it.

Dick or Jason (this is really screaming Dick to me but I can see it going either way) seethe until he comes up with the BEST solution, even a compromise!

And the somehow Protective Sheer Tights are invented after MUCH argument.

Same Robin but about double the protection with his legs covered now.

[prlssprfctn]

I've been brewing this post for far too long in my drafts, but I need more doomed!Bruce and Jason throughout universes. And it is not even always about the same Jaybin, dying in the warehouse scenarios!

Sometimes Jason is just a kid, who died in front of Batman, who maybe jumped in between Batman and the villain recklessly, to keep him safe, and whose blood stuck under Bruce's nails. His face haunts him in nightmares, still.

In other realities, Bruce meets Jason as a teen, and they never even get to become father and son officially - but they slowly get into each other's lives, until something awful happens, leaving a ghost of a smirking kid stroll behind Bruce's hunched figure for the rest of his life.

Or maybe it is one of these realities, where Jason crawls out of the Alley Crime himself, and manages to become famous in Gotham; the one, where he opens a charity fond, dedicated to people, who fight with the drug addiction. Bruce Wayne is sympathetic of a kid he meets during some of the events, and as they slowly start contacting each other more often, getting closer, he promises himself to protect him. Expect, Batman is late to save Jason Todd from the hands of yet another villain.

It could be the priest Jason Todd that meets bleeding out Batman on the stairs of the church, and who helps him out, for what he later pays with his life. Or they are not really vigilantes in any of these universes - just father and son.

And in some of these universes, they reconcile. In one of them, some of the medics connect the dots that a catatonic boy, who is covered in dirt, calling for his dad, for Bruce is Bruce's Wayne dead son, and try calling him. In another, LoA!Jason with his memory still being in a haze, crosses his path with Batman, before getting dipped in the Lazarus Pit.

But the point stands.

In all of them, Bruce Wayne is too late. In all of them, Bruce Wayne fails to save Jason Todd.

[batfambrainrotbeloved]

People so often obsess over their grief of Jason- the double vision looking at someone that never left and yet is completely gone

They forget he's mourning himself

[maybesomemilo]

There’s something about morally grey Tim Drake. I am so attached to the idea that Tim just says fuck it to the no killing rule. I so see him favour blowing whole ass warehouses up. He wouldn’t go out of his way to just be murderous and he wouldn’t do it to like your everyday thug but a serial killer here, a trafficker there, so what if his punches are a little harder… if anyone has any fic recs this is my official request

[gaywineauntsstuff]

https://archiveofourown.org/works/53718373

hiii here is a fic rec i think you would like the author also made another that was really good

I had already read Persephones in hell b4 this one BUT OMG I DID NOT EXPECT TO LOVE THIS AS MUCH AS I DID

Also

This IS MY DICK GRAYSON

Like THIS IS HIM

My son

Also 100% how I think the siblings should sibling

I love the manipulative asshole with a heart of gold Grayson. And him and Jayjay 20/10 I love it

THE FUCKING BLUEJAY STOPPPPP AT THE ALTER IM GOING HOME

(Also I read this at 3 am in a hostel in Prague and idk I need to give it bonus points for ambiance)

Anyway if anyone wants an idea of what I -a complete internet stranger- view Dick graysons character as. It’s this

And to end

I love this section so much

Anyway

100000/10 thank you so much for the rec

I want more but I will not be Icarus I am okay not flying too close to the sun (but if you have more plz do anon)

[lilacsandlillies]

I think the main reason there’s such a big discrepancy between Jason fans on what his relationship with Bruce should be is the fact that neither option is completely narratively satisfying.

Option one is that Jason and Bruce never get along or reach a compromise, which makes sense given both their morals but would eventually become quite boring narratively and comes with the risk of making Jason into a boring one dimensional villain that’s always in the wrong.

Option two is letting Jason compromise his own morals to become a bat again, which would allow for a few cool stories and some progression past Jason’s death, but would majorly compromise Jason’s moral compass and ideals to do so.

Now logically there is a third option, where Bruce lets Jason (or literally anyone else) kill the joker and he does the same thing Bruce does with people like Selina and Harley and just ignore the killing, but he won’t because DC hates me personally so for some reason Bruce doesn’t care when other people kill except when it’s Jason (or Helena)