#Meta about stories

[inkcurlsandknives]

Thinking about what makes a compelling narrative

I've been watching and reading a lot of anime/manga and romance lately. They're one of my comfort genres. Way too many real life terrible things have been happening for me to be able to experience escapism into anything with a hint of grimdark. For example right now I'm watching My Happy Marriage/Watashi no Shiawase na Kekkon, which is an Anime/Manga/light novel romance. It is blatantly a Cinderella story, where all the villain's are cartoonish-ly evil, while the MC is simply a cinnamon roll, too sweet, too soft and good for this world. The whole thing should not hang together as a functional or even strong narrative, much less a show both my partner and I are enjoying wholeheartedly.

I think it's secret is that it is completely and utterly earnest. I think as an audience we're more willing to suspend disbelief and go along for the ride when a story wears it's beating heart on its sleeve. I think a huge weakness of a lot of popular western media and fiction is that it feels like everyone is allergic to sincerity. Everyone's too busy cracking a glib one-liner or being grimdark and gritty to care deeply and honestly.

It's something that a lot of anime/manga and the romance genre at large has completely embraced. Even media that is actually quite dark like Jujitsu Kaisen or Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba feels like a breath of fresh air because of how earnest the protagonists are. Romance books have this in spades, some of my favorites have been, The Sun is Also a Star, Get a Life Chloe Brown, and The Devil Comes Courting.

I think a lot of the time we're too ready to turn up our noses at narratives and characters that care and care deeply. Writers will say it' simplistic, or a character archetype that's overdone. But I think the first step of getting your audience to care is to have characters who care, and to not be shy about it. Let the audience care with your characters, let stories be earnest and sincere and wear their hearts on their sleeves. Not everything has to be a clever twist or a joke or afraid of real feeling, and we do ourselves and the stories we tell a disservice when we tell ourselves that sincerity and earnestness are trite and only serious grim and hopeless things are real and engaging.

One thing I always strive for in my own stories is to have characters who care and care deeply, and often for conflicting things.

[saints-who-never-existed]

“In the war film, a soldier can hold his buddy—as long as his buddy is dying on the battlefield. In the western, Butch Cassidy can wash the Sundance Kid’s naked flesh—as long as it is wounded. In the boxing film, a trainer can rub the well-developed torso and sinewy back of his protege—as long as it is bruised. In the crime film, a mob lieutenant can embrace his boss like a lover—as long as he is riddled with bullets. 

Violence makes the homo-eroticism of many “male” genres invisible; it is a structural mechanism of plausible deniability.”

–Tarantino’s Incarnational Theology: Reservoir Dogs, Crucifixions, and Spectacular Violence. Kent L. Brintnall.

[yb-cringe]

something insanely meta about jack and tommy chatting about how it all sucked everything sucked and it was a mess and it hurt and no theyd never wanna go back but.. they miss it sometimes. to the way things were and how they felt. sometimes you just wanna go back

[bloominglegumes]

i love normal guys doomed by the narrative

[chanafehs]

Vivienne’s line about “a leash can be pulled both ways” is actually so fascinating because it can not only be applied to its original context (Mages & Templars) but to the Inquisitor themselves - as many have discussed the Inquisitor loses their standing, their heritage, their identity to this weird Andrastian cult up in the mountains regardless of what they personally believe. They are the Herald of Andraste, the leader of this massive powerful religious military organization that has its hands in every holding in Thedas and yet the Inquisitor is controlled by everyone else. You are locked into centrist diplomacy, the game is playing you as much as you are playing it. You can make choices but all of the choices you make are guided and picked apart by everyone else, you lose your entire personhood to become someone that everyone around you has molded you into and you cannot escape. The dichotomy between Vivienne and Sera becomes even more interesting because on one hand, Sera keeps trying to humanize you and tear down the barrier between you and the average person (or followers of you), while Vivienne wants you to harness your position since it is all you can do because escape is not an option - harkening back to her experience as a circle mage. Dragon Age Inquisition fundamentally gives you a protagonist sitting in the most powerful position in Thedas and the only thing you cannot control is yourself.

[salemoleander]

I am BARELY resisting going full red-strings-corkboard on this season. And by barely resisting I mean not resisting at all here is an extremely long list of the events those pins would be marking out.

BigB getting a Task that was a different color than everyone else's. It's not just a randomly assigned Hard Task, bc Scar rerolled for a Hard Task and his was also just a white envelope. It's fundamentally different.

That task taking BigB away from socialization, and seemingly being an incredibly time-consuming and dull request. Of profound disinterest to any watchers.

The phrasing of his Task!!

Dig a big hole. All the way down. At least 3x3. Make it your base if you want.

Everyone else's are direct and formal - the only one with more than one sentence was Skizz's, with the rule clarification of "One attempt only." Bigb's Task is four short abrupt sentences. It is also the only Task to contain extraneous information, 'Make it your base if you want.' The requirements (at least 3x3) feel like an afterthought to mimic the numerical/specific demands of the other tasks.

Evo symbol on the face of the Secret Keeper statue.

The fact that there's a statue at all; the fact that there is a physical representation of what is assigning tasks that everyone must complete, when previously everything was always handled via commands and unseen RNG.

Grian talking to the statue, and (bc of his Actual Role as game organizer) acting as a mediator for the impartial decisions handed down, speaking for it.

Grian making one last bad joke and saying he doesn't know if it counted or not- depends on whether we the audience laughed.

Grian asking for task recommendations from the audience. The watchers are making the tasks. The Watchers are making the tasks.

Again I could be off-base, and I'm not usually even that smitten with bringing in Evo lore. I don't want a Big Bad really...but. It feels like something very unusual and intentional and cool is happening in this series. And I'd guess we'll know if theres something going on once we have more than one data point.

My largely unfounded suspicion is that there is another being (maybe Listeners, maybe something else) trying to reach out to the Players via decoy Tasks, and BigB was the first recipient. Get them alone, make them of disinterest to the watchers, and tell them something we don't get to know.

Because that's the really, really fucking cool part (if my wacky theory is remotely right): We're the bad guys. We're the ones giving out tasks - hell, we're the ones actively brainstorming harder and crueller tasks in Grian's comments!

If they actually made a story where the Players have to keep secrets from us I will be delighted. Bc that is the same genius bullshit that made Evo Watcher lore so fun

[danielsarmand]

guys. guys. guys. look at me. i beg of you to think about it for one single second. do you really genuinely honestly think that armand. 514 years old never turned a human never made a vampire. would make his first and only fledgling OUT OF SPITE? look at me in the eye. come on. i know you don't genuinely think that

[dreamerdrop]

I don’t talk about my love for Kira Nerys too often because. Look. I think if DS9 handles anything well, it’s Kira, hands down.

Her character development is a work of art. She is so traumatised, so angry, so beaten down and STILL FIGHTING at the start. She struggles so much with her PTSD, with the idea that she is ever allowed to be in anything but attack mode…

And then, slowly, gradually, she becomes a whole new person. She laughs, she smiles, she makes corny jokes, she does dumb fun things for the sake of enjoying herself. She has friends, she has a family, she is surrounded by love and joy and HOPE.

Even in the middle of second war, she’s DIFFERENT now. She’s not the same miserable angry person she was, afraid to let go of the vigilant surivival instincts that kept her alive for so long. She’s come back to life as a person who has something to live for.

She has done terrible things. Her hands are stained with blood. She is never going to be able to forget her trauma or the suffering, both her own and that of her people, nor the suffering she inflicted while fighting for her freedom. But she recovers. She heals. She carves out an existence where she is truly, genuinely happy to be alive.

I don’t need to talk about Kira as much as some other characters because this all happens on screen. It’s right there, and it’s beautiful and perfect.

Kira Nerys goes from a person who cannot conceive of herself outside of the horrors she has suffered, inflicted, and fought against, to someone for whom her trauma is just one part of the larger picture, a piece of a rich and vibrant tapestry that is now filled, overwhelmingly, with joy.

Kira Nerys is like, hands down, bar none, one of, if not THE best characters Star Trek has ever created. I love her so much. She is just, completely and utterly perfect, especially in her flaws.

[aletterinthenameofsanity]

Alright, I'll say it: Jack Harkness and the Doctor's relationship is possibly the most fleshed out/complicated dynamic in Doctor Who and that is INCLUDING the master/doctor relationship. Seriously, think about it:

the fact that when they meet jack is presented as sleazy con man and the doctor makes him brave- makes him good

but that they are both willing to die for rose as long as she is safe

and then she comes back and dooms them both to live (even though jack has already died for her and the doctor WILL die for her)

(ninerosejack is canon and you cannot convince me otherwise)

but then the doctor sees jack as immortal as someone he COULD spend the rest of his life with

and instead of embracing it like you'd think he would because he is so wrecked by people leaving him/being left by him the doctor RUNS bc the Doctor is so scared of jack of what he means of what he is

jack ends up abandoned in dalek dust goes back in time to find the doctor suffers a hundred years alone/being tortured but STILL WAITS

(screw amy being the girl who waited or rory being the boy who waited- Jack Harkness is the boy who waited and he did it FIRST)

Jack finds out that he was abandoned. that the man that he loves HATES the sight of him. that the doctor would rather have a genocidal murderer than have him

and so Jack gets the hell out of dodge to go to a man who DOES love him

and don't get me wrong Jack loves Ianto and Jack DOES remember Ianto until he dies as the Face of Boe don't forget that (protecting Novice Hame from the virus as he couldn't Ianto

BUT AFTER EVERYTHING THE DOCTOR HAS DONE TO JACK JACK STILL LOVES THEM

Jack still considers five billion years cursed to never die to be BETTER than the alternative: dying a young time-agent-turned-con-man

Jack has more reason than any other companion save maybe Amy to hate the Doctor & yet spends 20 years in jail to rescue Thirteen still LOVES HER

AND AFTER FIVE BILLION YEARS HE ORGANIZES THAT FIRST MEETING ON SATELLITE FIVE HE ORGANIZES 9/ROSE'S FIRST DATE

jack harkness is a living ghost a reminder of the doctor's failures a physical fixed point and yet he still loves the girl who cursed him and the time lord that turned him into the kind of person that would give his dying breaths to protect the last of humanity in a dying city and tell the doctor that he is not alone

because fuck it, YANA was a warning but also a reminder a final gift

jack had been there all along, a ghost an echo a PROMISE

there is no more human character than jack harkness

[feelo-fick]

i thought the reason was obvious..??

but you dont seem to get the implication so i guess ill just keep talking and you can listen if you want to

—

that one meme but its them :] sort of a sequel to this

[wszczebrzyszynie]

do you have any female ocs

i do yes.? i just suffer from the przemoryba disease where i only draw these two. but this is the entire dns cast that i need to redraw

to elaborate more Oleh is a girl too its just more complicated and Mikita. well he would really like to be a girl but hes not there yet

[cockworkangels]

truly a moment in tv history. like they are directly addressing the audience with these questions while the spn tptb are in real life bullying the show's fans over these exact questions

[curseofdelos]

mentally I'm still here:

Nico insisting that neither of them are going to be sacrificed/left behind to satisfy the prophecy is a perfect encapsulation of his growth over the series and it makes me SO soft to think about

Nico as a character - particularly in BoO - doesn't have a lot of self-preservation. He doesn't really care what happens to him as long as the mission gets done. We see this most explicitly after he almost fades into nothingness after the Bryce Lawrence incident:

And again when he considers shadow travelling into Octavian's tent to assassinate him:

(Nico himself notes here that it was unlikely he would survive another jump. If Will hadn't stopped him, he probably would have died.)

In both cases, Nico was willing to risk death for the sake of ending the war. He puts very little value on his own life, and repeatedly argues to Reyna, Hedge, and Will that the possibility of saving camp (a place he never felt welcome at, might I add) is worth the risk of losing his life.

Even before Nico went on the quest with Reyna and Hedge, the others were concerned about his safety. Percy tried to remind him how unpredictable his shadow travelling could be, and Hazel notes that he has been acting strangely lately:

It's not quite clear what Hazel is worried about here, but my interpretation of this scene is that she's concerned that Nico isn't thinking - or perhaps, isn't caring - about what effect the constant shadow travelling will have on his wellbeing. Between Tartarus, the jar, and the Cupid incident, Nico's mental state is at its worst at this point in the series, and I think Hazel is worried he'll do something reckless - something he can't come back from.

And so in TSATS, when Nico is told that he's going to have to leave something of equal value behind in order to save Bob, the old him would have had zero issue sacrificing himself if that's what it took to ensure Will and Bob's survival. This version of Nico, who's been going to therapy w/ Mr D and opening up more and built a little support system for himself, can't fathom it.

Nico in BoO did not have a future. He had fully convinced himself that nobody cared about him or would miss him if he was gone - not Percy who fought for him at every turn in PJO, not his sister Hazel, not his new friends Jason and Reyna. He was ready to leave both camps behind because he couldn't see himself ever being happy there. He couldn't see himself being happy at all.

But now, in TSATS, he has a boyfriend that he loves, he has friends that he loves, and he has a community in Camp Half-Blood. He has experienced so much loss that losing someone else is his worst fear. The old Nico would have considered sacrificing himself to protect Will and Bob. At the very least, he would have kept that option in his back pocket as a 'just in case'; he wouldn't have sworn on the Styx that he wouldn't stay behind.

This Nico, however, is doing much better - not perfect, but better. He loves Will, and he wants a life with him, and he's not willing to give that up for anything. Nico has hope for the future, and he's clinging to that hope with everything he has. He sees a light at the end of the tunnel, and he wants to reach it. He's not willing to sacrifice himself because it means losing that future.

Gone is the cynical pessimistic Nico who assumes the worst because the worst is all he thinks he can have. Here is the Nico who has had a taste of happiness and is willing to fight to keep it. He's not going to sacrifice himself because he wants to live. He's not just fighting for Will here; he's fighting for himself too.

And seeing him go from "if it kills me, it kills me" to "it's not going to be me" makes me so ASDFGHJKL

[anistarrose]

to me, the most fascinating (and utterly unintentional) feature of TAZ Balance's narrative structure is the way that on the first listen, Tres Horny Boys are the audience surrogates because they, much like us, have no idea what the fuck is going on, but on all subsequent relistens, then Lucretia, and sometimes Barry, and arguably especially Lup in the umbrella become the new audience stand-ins, because just like us, they are, in fact, painfully aware of what the fuck is going on :)

[francesderwent]

[rmbunnie]

It's most likely just Starlin trying to get to Jason dying faster because he did not like Robin, but the whole "Jason's spiraling because of his grief for his parents" thing they were trying to spin was honestly really weird, not supported by the rest of the run INCLUDING the parts Starlin wrote, and kinda reads like an unreliable narrator situation because all of the information supporting it is given through Bruce's narration, him speculating on Jason's thoughts and actions.

The plot thread of Jason's grief for his family affecting his behavior shows up like TWO issues after Jason first becomes Robin back when Collins was writing, and gets sorted out after one conversation where Jason gets to confront Bruce about hiding his father's death from him for 6 months. After that Jason is behaving normally until they encounter three predators in a row, and each time Bruce insists that they can't do anything because of The Rules and assorted red tape/diplomatic immunity plotlines. (The sister of a woman who got dismembered actually tricked the violent-misogynist killer who dismembered her sister (and then got his serial killings dismissed through a technicality) into attacking her, and ends up killing him in self-defense, and then Jason's like "seems fair" and Bruce is like "no. it's NOT. we need to follow laws and not take justice into our own hands. which like wtf Bruce! you are a vigilante who just used a custom tank to fight an evil televangelist! who then got ripped to shreds by his followers while you watched!)

Bruce kinda just decides with Alfred that it must be grief upsetting him and not the dozens of brutally killed women and their predatory killers who the law inexplicably protected, (all written by Starlin, so retconning it for DitF like five issues later would be an odd move) but the only text claiming that's why Jason was upset is from Bruce's POV and through Alfred's dialogue. Jason himself doesn't display any signs of grief in the story itself, or even act or speak in a way that alludes to Catherine and Willis beyond looking at a picture of them and smiling fondly while he sorts through their possessions. He kinda just happens upon the box with his mother's info by chance, and is like ok i guess we're doing mom searches now. He was only going for a walk through his old neighborhood, not actively searching out info on his family. When Jason is deciding whether or not to run off without telling Bruce, he considers telling him and then goes "no, all he cares about is being Batman, he wouldn't even understand why I want to see my mom." Which, I mean, "Bruce wouldn't get it" is a REALLY odd angle if the sole motivator for spiraling, then getting benched* and running away to search out his bio-mom, was because he was mourning his dead parents, a thing he notably has in common with Bruce. That statement only really makes sense if he's thinking about a different thing that was greatly upsetting to him that Bruce brushed past, like maybe a combo of hiding the murder of his dad for half a year and allowing several cases involving sexual violence to freely develop body counts in the name of the law.

Lots of people have written about how Jason's stay in the manor might have seemed dependent on being Robin with how he was kinda just scooped up, but (if we're including Detective Comics in our characterization,) Bruce had offered to let him resign from Robin and just live with him (a little late, but still. It's worth noting Batman proper shows Jason afraid and uncomfortable at the thought of Dick taking Robin back, which lends more merit to the housing-dependent-on-Robin-misunderstanding interpretation, but canon is pick and choose anyways.) The lack of trust involved in his choice to search out his mom kinda reads like it was bred by more than that alone, and Bruce's prioritization of the law over the protection of the people it ignores is notably upsetting to him in the prior issues. tbh I really do believe the outcomes of those cases could have informed Jason's stance that Bruce's method of justice is ineffective right alongside his own murder and his experiences in Lost Days.

It would make sense for Bruce to not consider his own actions while he's thinking through things that would upset Jason, because from his point of view the things there that were bothering Jason were the criminals alone, not the way that the methods with which they were approaching their crimes continually led to the perpetrators evading actual justice. During the point in DitF where he's thinking through motivations for Jason's running away because something isn't adding up for HIM, the idea doesn't so much as cross his mind. It would also add another layer to Jason's sulkiness upon Bruce's arrival if he held the belief that Bruce is ignoring the consequences his brand of justice has on victims (and the way it's affecting him to helplessly watch it play out), starts to hope that Bruce actually can understand his thought processes/relate to him when he shows up, only to be told to his face that Bruce is prioritizing his style of justice over Jason again. With the way everything that led Jason to his bio-mom was comically circumstantial and the context of the previous issues, it's kind of the ONLY way Death in the Family makes sense to me. Tldr: I feel like the grief claimed as reasoning for Jason's actions leading up to his death is mainly speculation from Bruce and Alfred and the more textually-supported reason for his erratic behavior and lack of trust in Bruce is the lack of intervention in several sensitive cases that led them to worsen unobstructed and eventually permitted them to escalate into casualties in 2 out of 3 cases.

*Also, side note, but the idea that Jason got benched for the Filipe situation, while perfectly reasonable, is not quite spot on. The Filipe situation escalated into the fight in the junkyard where his dad is crushed by a car and Bruce is all "everything you do has consequences" which is kinda big words for a guy whose lack of action indirectly lead to a girls death earlier in the storyline, but true. Jason actally gets benched because he jumps directly into gunfire while fighting the third set of predators and Bruce starts to worry he's getting a little suicidal with it. He baits a guy into shooting at him on purpose again trying to protect mom prospect number 1 later on in DitF, so Bruce might have had a point with that one.