#ML fandom bigotry

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

I think both stans and salters need to understand that…

You CAN legitimately dislike the creator and still enjoy the show for what it is at least sometimes lol 😂

I mean, yes. Thomas Astruc IS the creator of the show.

However, it means that he IS, that doesn’t mean that he’s free from criticism. We aren’t obligated to go along with or agree with every single decision that he makes and praise it like it’s the best thing since slice bread. It’s not like we’re not “real fans” or “entitled” if we don’t or something? It’s just…not everybody thinks the same all the time. However, it also doesn’t mean that we like/support him just because we like some of his controversial decisions (Zoe Lee, not redeeming Chloe, the love square etc).

Because guys…

This isn’t about HIM! It’s about NOT being bigots, white knights, entitled pricks, or whatever hell.

I personally don’t like him, but there’s still things that I did like about the show. Let people have fun, geez…

[mexicancat-girl]

My main problem with salt fics is that it's often just character bashing. With the majority being super racist to Alya for no reason (the actual reason is racism and misogyny in this fandom).

People will look a children's cartoon that often talks about love and friendship, not being a bully, and that Racism Is Bad... And fans will completely close their eyes and plug their ears and forget about those things. It's baffling.

It's a cartoon for kids, in the end it's going to try to have a happy ending. The characters are literally middle schoolers. Let them live.

I take the position on salt that I always have: if watching a children's TV show brings you so much anger and you feel compelled to spread that anger to others, you need to stop watching that children's TV show.

[k4txlulzz]

love and deepspace fandom desperately needs to know that "not everything has to be gay!1!1!1" is actually just a fancy way of saying that you dont like seeing queer rep in media. you just don't like gay people, thats it🤷🏻 its a homophobic rhetoric along the lines of "im fine with gay people as long as they barely even let me know they exist"

lets leave the bigotry in 2025 mkay ? (￣ε ￣) you cant hide behind the excuse of "standing up for the female audience" and "but its an otome!!" . this isnt about women's rights as much as it is about your self-centeredness and hatefulness! i sound mean but i just dont tolerate bigotry and the insane amount of harassment people receive because of it.

with that said, queer mls are awesome and, in fact, have to potential to be very popular!

aaand lastly, i hope everyone enjoys the new event^_^ manifesting that the nuclear levels of toxicity in this fandom(also referring to the WAR going on between the stans of diff mls) clears at least a small bit

[jacquesthepigeon]

Like idk maybe I should compile a required reading list for anons to go through before sending me asks bc I been asked so many times over the years to explain the issues I see with the show (and fandom at large) or what I think the series would look like if certain demographic changes were made and I’m tired of explaining that bigotry is so deeply woven into the narrative that, without it, ML would be almost unrecognizable

[rjalker]

Stop writing fics about Lila pretending to be disabled. It's literally just ableism.

[Plain text: "Stop writing fics about Lila pretending to be disabled. It's literally just ableism." End plain text.]

Copying an pasting this section from the original post because I'm so tired of this fandom's ableism.

It doesn’t matter if the show was ableist first. You have the personal responsibility to not be ableist. You have the personal responsibility to correct what the show does wrong.

Do not demonize the class for accommodating a disabled student.

Do not perpetuate the myth that “bad evil” people are out there pretending to be disabled to get attention.

Do not pretend like Marinette liking Lila has any bearing on whether or not Lila is disabled.

You want to fix this mess? Then either rewrite it so Lila never said she had hearing problems, or have her actually be disabled, with the moral being that not liking someone doesn’t magically mean they’re lying about being disabled, and that insisting that someone is lying about their disability just because you don’t like them makes you ableist and an asshole!

I’m sick of this! I’m sick of the show and the fandom demonizing disabled people! I’m sick of it! 

Stop being ableist and stop spreading ableist bullshit!

By fucking continuing to write about Lila pretending to be disabled because she's a Bad Person Who Wants Attention™ you are literally being ableist.

You are literally perpetuating the myth that disabled people are just faking it for attention. That is literally what you are fucking doing when you keep rehashing "oh Lila pretended to be disabled because she's an evil liar!!" bullshit.

I don't fucking care.

It is literally fucking ableist to accuse people of faking their disabilities to get attention.

It is fucking ableist to accuse people of getting accommodations "to get attention" or "to get special priveleges".

Stop fucking writing shit where Lila pretends to be disabled and Marinette calls her out on it. It's literally just fucking ableism. Straight up, no fucking ifs, ands, or buts.

Accusing people of faking their disability is ableist.

Accusing people of wanting accomodations in order to "Get ahead" or "Get attention" is fucking ableist.

The show was ableist as shit by having Lila do this. The show was ableist as shit for wanting us to be on Marientte's side when she makes a scene in front of the whole class accusing Lila of faking a disability.

But just because she show did the fucking ableist shit first does not make it okay for you to fucking repeat it or make it even fucking worse.

No, it is not okay for you to write fics about Lila pretending to be disabled and getting all these wonderful benefits from doing so that make her life so much fucking easier and let her have unfair advantages over the class in general and Marinette in particular.

THAT IS LITERALLY JUST ABLEISM.

[Plain text: "That is literally just ableism." End plain text.]

No, it is not fucking okay for you or anyone else to perpetuate the myth that disabled people are faking it for attention or unfair advantages.

That's literally all you, the show, and anyone whose who writes this kind of shit is doing.

Yes, even if you've made it an AU where Marinette is disabled. And no, saying that Marinetter has a "real" disability and "Being hard of hearing isn't really a disability" does in fact just make it more ableist, not less. Why does this even need to be said. If you write a fic pitting disabled people against eachother, saying that only one of them deserves accomodations when there's nothing stopping both of them from having their needs met, you are just being ableist and you are encouraging your audience to be ableist.

Tinittus is a real fucking thing that actually exists. So many people in this fandom were literally pretending it's made up and fake just because Lila's the one who said it. Being hard of hearing makes you disabled. Yes, "really" disabled. There's no such fucking thing as faking being disabled or not being "disabled enough to deserve accomodations".

Stop writing fics where Lila pretends to be disabled. The show was ableist to do it in the first place, and you are not making the active choice to continue that ableism.

It is your personal responsibility not to be ableist. That means that when it comes to Lila, either throw the entire fucking thing of her pretending to be disabled into the fucking dumpster, or writer her as being disabled, and the moral is that Marinette is in fucking fact in the wrong for accusing her of faking it just because she doesn't like her.

Because I've been accused of lying about being disabled plenty of fucking times, and you know why? Because the person doing the accusing didn't like me, and decided that meant I had to be lying.

Do not fucking portray Marinette or any other character as in the right when they accuse someone of faking a disability for attention or an advantage. You are literally just being ableist and encouraging your audience to be ableist, and the show doing it first does not excuse your actions. It is your personal responsibility to not be ableist, it is your personal responsibility to call out the bigotry in this show, not reinforce it.

[Plain text: "Do not fucking portray Marinette or any other character as in the right when they accuse someone of faking a disability for attention or an advantage. You are literally just being ableist, and encouraging your audience to be ableist, and the show doing it first does not excuse your actions. It is your personal responsibility to not be ableist, it is your personal responsibility to call out the bigotry in this show, not reinforce it." End plain text.]

[prompts-adrien-sugar]

Ok so I'm beyond tired of this, like we get it, some salters don't like the show but you don't have to constantly bash people who still like the show or the characters

But here's this thing, most of the time when you have to bash ppl over a show they like which is beyond stupidity and whenever they defend their point you have to stoop to other levels? Headassery. And the fact that you have to call people who like it bootlickers and the like or worse like they don't almost always be constantly bigoted at times in several different ways in salt and when ppl call them out, they have lackluster ways for defending themselves like the argument doesn't hold up, it's still bad. You can try to get one person of that minority to speak for you but here's the thing, they don't speak for the whole community.

And the fact that most salters have to constantly say that we d**throat the show like they don't constantly have to make up reasons to shit on the show or pick and choose from ppl who prop up their stupidity/bigotry/etc. Like my guys, at this point salt isn't even criticism, it's bashing that's full of stereotypes and when people call them out on it it's bad, but it's apparently ok to if you're a salter. Bashing people who like the show and it's characters is stupid bc it's trying, especially for it's intended target audience. It has a specific niche that some people like and if it doesn't fullfil your wants that's fine! But you don't have to go out of your way to talk bs about it or the people who like it still bc it fills their niches is stupid because they like a show and that's okay. But here's the thing. There's a solution to y'all's problem, you can just leave and not consume content related to the show bc then it'll live rent free in your heads bc all these people spew is salt related to consumers or the show but they don't, they still stay here and constantly be rude to others.

[walks-the-ages]

[ID: An anonymous message that reads "I don't even like ML lmao I just think it's seriously damaging to your mental health to obsessively watch a show you hate". End ID ]

You know, it's just endlessly amusing to me, that people who are so invested in shows like ML and Supernatural and such this will think that because they live and breathe for the show, everyone else who interacts with it is in the same boat, even when they're an anon like this claiming they don't like it (so why are you sending anons about it then ,hm?

Can't even be bothered to reply properly to anything I pointed about about why I even interact with 5he fandom still, including the fact that I enjoy interacting with the other critical members of fandom and the friends I've made alone the way.

Like, just because I hate what the ML writers do.... Doesn't mean I'm obsessed with the show.

There's literally nothing here to damage my mental health lol, you just can't stand it when fandom isn't all sunshine and rainbows, fandom isn't just unthinking worship of a media, it's critiquing the media, it's examining it's flaws and using literal critical thinking skills lol.

I enjoy the characters, I enjoy what the show could have been, and I enjoy interacting with the other people in fandom who aren't going to let the show's rampaging bigotry run unchecked.

Me making a post talking about the sexism and racism in a piece of media is not me "being obsessed with something I hate" lol.

I'd love to love miraculous ladybug, but at this point it brings me nothing but amusement at just how bad it is lol. Occasionally watching a 20 minute episode of ML instead of The Twilight Zone or Outer Rim or Tales From The DarkSide or Moon Knight or Star Wars or random YouTube gardening videos is not me "obsessively watching something I hate".

How about instead of randomly sending anons to people who critique media you just.

Block people, instead.

Like I have you blocked now lol.

[lady-charinette]

Fic Request Rules:

Masterlist is now up (updated regularly)!

Ao3

FFnet

The Do's: 👍

Romance

Blood, gore, violence, war, death

ANGST (i regularly drink the tears and blood of my reader's as my life sustenance, so gimme angst you cowards-)

Any fic tropes (enemies to lovers, there was only one bed...etc.)

Monster/Slasher stuff

Fluff

Hurt/Comfort

Historical fiction

NSFW

Fantasy

Basically anything, I'm always up for a challenge

The Don't's: 👎

Necrophilia

Pedophilia

Incest

BDSM

anything promoting racism, sexism, ableism, transphobia, homophobia, or any other form of bigotry

Scat

Writing about real life people (celebrities, actors/actresses...etc.)

The Maybe's: 🤔

Queer relationships/characters (since I'm not part of the LBGTQ+ community I feel if I do attempt to write characters who are queer I'll do them a disservice, but I'm willing to research and try if I have a feeling it might not be ready to throw in the trash ^_^)

Disabled characters (same thing with queer relationships/characters, doing anyone a disservice or offending people is the last thing on my mind, but I may need more time to write these due to extensive research)

Fandoms I write for:

FMA/FMAB (Fullmetal Alchemist)

Biker Mice from Mars (1993, 2006)

ML (Miraculous Ladybug)

Spy x Family

Buddy Daddies

Belle (2021)

Phantom of the Opera

ATLA (Avatar the Last Airbender)

Final Fantasy (FFVII, Crisis Core, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, FFXII 13-2)

Cells at Work!

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990, 1991, 1993, 2003, 2017)

The Mandalorian

Star Wars

Yakuza Fiance

Inuyasha

Akatsuki no Yona

Snow White with the Red Hair

BNHA/MHA (My Hero Academia)

Manner of Death (thai drama)

Rurouni Kenshin

The Mandalorian

Kakuriyo no Yadomeshi/Bed and Breakfast for Spirits

Vincenzo

Mouse (kdrama)

Hometown Cha Cha Cha (kdrama)

Doctor John (kdrama)

Almost any jdrama/kdrama (if I didn't watch what you requested I'll watch it & then decide if I can write something)

Skyrim

Bridgerton

(List will be updated regularly)

[ilikekidsshows]

Also, this isn’t about ML specifically, just fandom treatment of cruelty in general: back in the 80s/90s, abusers and bullies were usually straight white male jocks, so victims were useful to activist causes. But starting in the early 00s with the release of Mean Girls in 2004, victims “went off-script”: they started criticizing female and minority aggressors too, and even defending straight white men if they were being mistreated. So to fandom activists, victims have Outlived Their Usefulness.

You know what, Anon, I agree. This behavior is true for any group with an agenda. When looking at the actions of "men's rights activists", male rape victims deserve to be heard out only when it's being used to shut down conversation about the sexual harrassment women face. Victims get treated as tools and then tossed aside a lot.

It also makes me think of certain headcanons in certain fandoms here on tumblr, where fans love to attach different minority headcanons to bullied or insecure male protagonists, like making them victims of bigotry is a way of removing their white male privilege and making them more acceptable as victims in the admittedly-pretty-queer tumblr fandom spaces. Of course, these headcanons also make these protagonists more relatable to queer fans, so it's not all about the acceptability politics of picking favorite characters.

[rjalker]

I think it's a pun on the word "minor" since the opposite of "minor" is "major"

(and the rest of the joke is neurodivergent kids using the fact that they're neurodivergent kids to defend their bigotry online, like all the racists in the ML Fandom crying because they're being called racist when they're minors, as if that has anything to do with their ability to be viciously racist or not)

how dare you treat me like this dont you know im neurodivergent and *remembers i’m over 18* a major

[rjalker]

If you think people criticizing bigotry is more offensive than the bigotry itself, you are, in fact, a bigot.

[rjalker]

Remember when Adrien stans were claiming that Adrien Agreste, a straight cis boy, had “internalized misogyny”?

[sunfoxfic]

The issue with "it's not canon unless it's in the actual show" is that this exact logic is used to ignore representation that can and should be helpful to people. Yeah, maybe a lot of creators are trying to get brownie points by saying it off screen -- but a lot of creators are trying their hardest to get rep and can't because they're limited by the producers and company they work for. And that line isn't gonna be as clear as some people think it is.

"It's not canon unless it's in the show" may sound great for Astruc who you have a vendetta against, but it has been said about Korrasami who have graphic novels about their relationship, and it's been said about Entrapta in SPOP being autistic, and it's been said about actual queer creators queercoding their characters, and you know damn well that a bigot will look for any reason to not let "representation" penetrate their pure media.

There is a difference between explicit representation and non-explicit rep. But boiling it down to "I don't care unless the words are used" makes you sound an awful lot like bigots, and maybe you should wonder why that is rather than looking for any excuse to say that Astruc should get cancelled.

[rjalker]

Making it its own post: Either you think you're responsible enough to interact with others without hurting people with your bigotry, or you don't.

If your immediate response to being told that something you did is racist, is to deny that you are racist because you are a child, you are racist.

It really is that simple.

Just because you are a child does not make your actions harmless. Just because you are a child does not mean you get a “get out of consequences free” card. Your racism is no different from the racism of an adult. It still reflects your morals, it still enforces racist views, and it’s still actively harming the people of color around you, and yes, that includes children of color.

You don’t get to be a bigot and then try to use the fact that you’re a child as a shield as though the other children being harmed by your bigotry don’t literally exist.

If you think you can’t be held accountable for your actions because you’re a child, then get off the internet until you learn what morals are and can trust yourself to be a good person.

Either you think it’s impossible for you to behave like a decent person who has morals because you’re a kid, or you think you’re responsible enough to interact with people responsible. You gotta pick one.

You cannot argue that it's impossible for you not to be a bigot because of your age and then insist on subjecting people to your bigotry by attacking them online.

Either you think you're responsible enough to interact with others, and you're willing to hold yourself accountable and take responsibility when people call you out for bigoted behavior so you can stop hurting people, or you don't.

If you think you're incapable of interacting with other people on the internet without being a bigot towards them, then you do not need to interact with people on the internet.

I didn't use my age to justify my shitty behavior online when I was a kid, and you don't get to do that either. If you think your age makes you incapable of not hurting people, then it's your responsibility not to hurt people and to stay offline.

Either you think you're mature enough to interact with others in a responsible and non-bigoted manner, or you don't.

You have to pick one, you really fucking do.

Either you think you're ready to be on the internet interacting with people, or you think it's okay for you to be racist because you're a kid. Pick one.

Your age is not an excuse for your bigotry. It never was and it never will be. If you think being a kid means you're incapable of hurting others, then get off the internet until you trust yourself not to hurt people.

If someone tells you something you did was bigoted, and your immediate response is to say they can't criticize your behavior because you're a minor, then you are literally just not ready to be on the internet yet interacting with people and you need to log out until you learn what morals are.

I'm serious. Pick one. Either you think you're ready to interact with other people in the real world where your actions have consequences, or you think you're not. You can't have it both ways.

[rjalker]

so like the ML fandom not only doesn’t know how to write angst they ALSO have no sense of humor it’s like.

pick one. You can’t just have neither. You either gotta be funny or good at writing angst. Crack or angst. Pick one. You can’t just. Not do either right.

that’s not dark that’s hilarious.

that’s not angst that’s..........................nothing

[rjalker]

"Rjalker is calling minors racist!"

Well then just stop being racist. It's that easy. Do you think kids of color don't exist? Do you think your racism has no impact on anyone but your reputation? All you have to do is stop being racist.

I love how the ML fandom keeps pointing to the fact that I'm white to say that all the times I've called people out for their blatant racism is false, while they conveniently ignore all the people of color in this fandom who have been calling them out for the exact same shit.

Remember when these racist shitheads were pretending that Alya is a horrible vicious bully who's worse than Chloe and suicide baits and beats the shit out if Marinette while stealing millions of dollars from Marinette's parents? And Marinette only has Chloe left to comfort her because Chloe is herone true friend? And these people were trying to claim that this is her genuine, real personality? They didn’t think this was OOC or bashing, they were genuienly convinced that Alya is the fucking spawn of satan who is physically and mentally abusive to Marinette, who is, and I quite, “terrified of her”.

They’re probably still fucking doing it to this day, but at this point I have them all blocked and reported.

This fandom is filled to the brim with racists.

And yes, some of those racists happen to be children.

They do not get a free fucking pass on being racist because they're children, because the children of color that are targeted by their racism don't get a free pass to not be harmed by it.

If your argument is literally that I am calling children out for being racist and for being misogynist and victim-blaming and abuse apologists, maybe instead of trying to pretend that children are incapable of harming anyone, you instead fucking educate the bigoted children in this fandom so they don't have to be called out in the first place.

Also I love how these people keep claiming I'm “harassing” them when the only time I ever call people out by name is on the summary, two sentence post where I am warning people to block them to avoid their bigotry, and if they are have posted something so fucking truly heinous that I have to respond by reblogging so that someone at least is showing up in the notes not agreeing with it.

Like that time a self-proclaimed 45 year old man told children in this fandom that if you are upset with someone for abusing you, and the person abusing you was, themselves, abused, you’re victim blaming them and are a horrible person who should be ashamed of yourself.

A literal 45 year old man came into this fandom and told children that they have to stay in abusive relationships, and if they don’t, they’re horrible people.

I am not joking.

I don’t harass people in this fandom. You know what I do? I block people. And I warn my followers about them. I don’t fucking bother to waste the energy arguing with these assholes anymore and do you know why? Because they literally will not listen to reason, and I’m tired of being called all manner of slurs and told I wasn’t ever actually sexually harassed because these people think that as long as the guy doing it is hot, it can’t ever be sexual harassment.

The people in this fandom literally think that because Adrien has a tragic backstory, then that means he can do whatever he wants without consequences, and it’s perfectly “”valid”” for him to sexually harass Marinette, because, and I quote, “She said no, but that doesn’t mean she’s not consenting”.

These people are mad that I’m calling out this fandom for spouting rape apologism, when they literally say the above literal quote in endless variations. They will argue day and night that Marinette has absolutely no problem with Adrien’s harassment towards her, despite the fact that she’s told him to stop countless times, despite how absolutely fucking miserable she looks, despite the fact that he literally admits multiple times that he does it specifically to piss her off because he enjoys seeing her genuinely upset.

People in this fandom will literally spout rape apologism, but then pretend to be the victims when they get called out for it. They will literally say Adrien sexually harassing Marinette is “valid” and then pretend to be the victim when they’re callled out for it. They will victim blame Marinette for “not doing enough” to stop Adrien from sexually harassing her, and then pretend to be the victim when they’re called out for it.

Most of them won’t even fucking admit that what Adrien is doing is sexual harassment, because they literally have no idea what sexual harassment actually looks like in the real world. They think only “ugly” “creepy” men sexually harass women. They cannot fucking grasp the fact that Adrien, the pretty white blond sad boy, is sexually harassing Marinette, because the show tells you it’s okay, and they don’t have enough critical thinking skills to not just go along with whatever the writers tell them.

And yes, some of the people doing this are kids. And that’s not an excuse. Because guess what? If they aren’t corrected, then they’re never going to stop doing this. they aren’t just going to magically wake up one day and realize that they’re being a victim blaming misogynist.

If no one ever calls out the victim blaming, yes, literal fucking rape apologism, and racism in the Miraculous Ladybug, it will literally never fucking get better.

where was I? I’m getting distracted.

Anyways.

I am not harassing people. 90% of the time I literally won’t even call people by name when I’m discussing the problem.

I block these people as soon as I find them, and then I make my own post explaining what it is that people are doing that is racist and that it needs to stop. I don't link to anyone's blogs, I don't link to their fanfictions, I am literally just calling out the behavior.

But then again, the same people in this fandom who think being called out for racism is harassment also think that blocking is harassment, and yet don't even hesitate before block evading.

If you are a kid in the miraculous ladybug fandom, and you have been informed that something you did was racist, your immediate response should not be to go "I'm a child you can't call me out."

If your immediate response to being told that something you did is racist, is to deny that you are racist because you are a child, you are racist.

It really is that simple.

Just because you are a child does not make your actions harmless. Just because you are a child does not mean you get a “get out of consequences free” card. Your racism is no different from the racism of an adult. It still reflects your morals, it's still enforces racist views, and it's still actively harming the people of color around you, and yes, that includes children of color.

You don't get to be a bigot and then try to use the fact that you're a child as a shield as though the other children being harmed by your bigotry don't literally exist.

If you think you can’t be held accountable for your actions because you’re a child, then get off the internet until you learn what morals are and can trust yourself to be a good person.

Either you think it’s impossible for you to behave like a decent person who has morals because you’re a kid, or you think you’re responsible enough to interact with people responsible. You gotta pick one. 

Yes, I am white. And I will call you out for being racist if I see you being racist. That is literally the responsibility of white people. Are you really going to argue that white people should just sit by silently and not do anything when blatant racism is happening right in front of them? Is that really the hill you’re gonna die on? That only the people of color that you are harming are allowed to call you out? Really?

This fandom is racist as hell, and you cannot use the fact that you are a child to excuse your behavior. You cannot use the fact that I happen to be white as an excuse to ignore your racism. I have absolutely no doubt that people of color have also fucking called you out, but because I'm white, you've decided that the rest of it doesn't matter because you think you can delegitimize the harm caused by your actions by singling me out because you’re gonna pretend being called out for being racist by a white person means you aren’t actually racist.