#It’s like the fact that he doesn’t understand the concept of pre-ordering is really the whole problem with the writing on OUAT

[bloodtwin]

Astarion’s first question makes him laugh, a wide grin on his face now as the other man seems to eye him like a wolf mistaking its own kin for sheep. Puck almost has the urge to twirl for him, make sure he sees every angle, but keeps himself rooted to the spot. He thinks if he moves he might go for the throat. This is bad.

❝  Well, you are a bit more eager than some of the others when it comes to bloodshed. ❞ Oh, as if you’re not. Really, Puck is almost an entirely different person in combat. Though his shy demeanor does little to support his claims of being a barbarian, his thirst for blood on the battlefield is enough to confirm it. 

He does not rage, not exactly. He goes into a frenzy, yes, but there is no anger behind it. Puck rarely feels such an emotion. All he feels in combat is excitement. He attempts to restrain himself ⸻ in fact, he does restrain himself, and he does it well ⸻ but he doesn’t think anyone would believe him if he said such a thing aloud. Even as he holds himself back, Puck finds his own strength & ability terrifying. The way he seems to read the whole of the field in a mere blink, strategy pre-built without a thought. Like a machine. He hates it as much as he loves it, though he’ll never admit to the latter being true. 

Just as he intentionally steps heavier than he normally would in order not to scare, Puck dumbs himself down on purpose, in & out of combat. If Astarion knew what he could really do, he would not stand so close to him. None of them would.

Wasteful. Interesting. What kind of hungry creature prefers keeping their food alive ？Puck isn’t sure. It’s on the tip of his tongue, but he can’t think of the name. Such a concept is so foreign to him. The best part of a hunt is when the victim stops breathing, after all. Immediately, he winces at the thought, but being called pretty distracts him. Both their eyes flick to the other’s mouth, lingering a moment too long. Puck wonders what kind of lovely sounds will leave Astarion’s lips when he catches him by surprise, knife buried deep in his stomach.

Those thoughts never take a holiday, do they ？❝ Hm . . . I suppose it’s all right for me to admit I’ve always found you rather pretty too, then. If you think the same of me. ❞ More an attempt to drown out the voice in his head than to really compliment the other ⸻ though he does mean what he says, if the way his cheeks flush is any indication of that. 

Grin faltering at the last question, he bites the inside of his cheek. His eyebrows furrow. Again, his whole demeanor shifts, flirtation morphing back into nervous fidgeting. Making himself smaller. Stepping back ever-so-slightly.

❝ I don’t want to hurt you, Astarion. I like you, ❞ an earnestly spoken fact. Puck does not like to lie. It’s true that he doesn’t want to hurt the other man, that he likes him, but he doesn’t know whether or not he will try to hurt him anyway. He hopes he doesn’t. He thinks he’ll succeed if he does. 

Unsure of whether or not he should, Puck continues to talk, needing to say something to someone before he does something he’ll regret. ❝ I don’t know what it is, but there’s something wrong with me. I’m hungry all the time, and I think scary things . . . ❞ Scratches behind his ear as it twitches again. ❝ I thought- Well, I thought maybe, since you can also smell fear, that you might understand. ❞

The smile on his pale features falters for the briefest of moments, his silver tongue momentarily caught by the jarring dissonance between Puck’s soft smile and the dark, almost casual question hanging in the air. Are you going to try to kill me, Astarion? The words slither through his mind, unsettling not because of their content——he’s heard such accusations, even invitations, before——but because of the way Puck delivers them. It’s playful, but laced with an undercurrent of something far more dangerous, something primal. The smile, so innocent on the surface, sends a chill creeping down Astarion’s spine, like fingers of cold trailing against his skin. There’s a beast lurking beneath the man’s skin, of that much Astarion is now certain.

But Astarion does not retreat. No, he stays where he is, close enough to feel the warmth radiating off Puck’s towering form, his instincts screaming at him to pull away, to flee, but his curiosity outweighing his fear. Astarion tilts his head, the movement slow and deliberate, as if studying Puck anew, and his smile returns——this time a bit more forced, but practiced enough that it seems effortless.

❛ You wound me, darling, ❜ he says, his voice light and teasing, though there’s a darkness lurking at the edges of his words now. ❛ Do I truly seem so murderous? ❜ He allows the question to linger for a moment, his gaze flicking over Puck’s features with a kind of predatory interest, though he’s careful to keep his tone playful. ❛ No, I’ve no interest in killing you. That would be… wasteful. ❜ His eyes gleam in the faint light, a flash of something sharper, more dangerous. He leans in just slightly, lowering his voice as though sharing a secret, though there’s nothing conspiratorial about his next words. ❛ And besides, ❜ he purrs, ❛ I do find you pretty. More than pretty, really. ❜ It isn’t a lie. Puck is, in his own unsettling way, captivating.

Astarion lets his gaze linger on Puck’s lips, his mind dancing between the lines of flirtation and something far darker. Hunters playing pretend, indeed. He knows this game too well——he’s played it for centuries, after all——but there’s a wildness in Puck that sets him on edge. Something feral that Astarion can’t quite place, and it stirs a mix of both fear and fascination deep within him. What is Puck, really? Is he truly unaware of the danger he poses, or has this all been some elaborate act? The thought gnaws at Astarion, but he pushes it aside for now, unwilling to risk upsetting the delicate balance between them.

❛ Though, ❜ he adds, his tone a touch more serious now, ❛ I’m beginning to wonder if it’s me who should be asking the same question. ❜ He quirks a brow, letting the faintest edge of danger slip into his otherwise coy smile.

[chirpsythismorning]

It would appear I am indeed one of the very few optimistic (delusional?) Bylers left.

Not saying that if you feel hopeless and need to move on, that you can't. A lot of you have been through this before with other shows. Again and again. You’re tired and fed-up and you have every right to be.

Technically, Season 5 won't be out for another 2+ years anyways, which means the best thing for everyone regardless is to get whatever we need off our chests now and then to just go on a hiatus for the foreseeable future. 

When it comes to how I feel about Vol. 2, there were definitely at least a few good moments. If this season has anything going for it, it’s the emotional value. This is without a doubt the most I’ve cried ever while watching the show. One scene in particular that had me on the floor was the scene with Will and El reuniting and hugging. And of course the scene with Will and Mike in the van (DAMN YOU NOAH SCHNAPP FOR MAKING ME SOB SO HARD ALL DAY THAT I GOT A MIGRAINE!)

But yes, I am a Byler. So you could say I was a bit disappointed in that department.

And yet still, I think my take on the later part of season 4 is much different from the majority.

Because personally, I don’t think that what played out in Vol. 2 means that Byler is dead. If anything, I believe it to be more endgame than I did before (well, at least in comparison to pre-s4. There’s no denying pre-Vol. 2 confidence levels remain unmatched. Truly the best era for the Byler fandom to date).

I think my main issue is, like so many of us on here, I thought it was guaranteed we would get to see Mike become aware of Will’s feelings. 

Alas, we did not.

And to be totally clear, without this revelation, Byler can’t go anywhere. 

Neither forwards, nor technically backwards.

This means the baiting game is not over. Which as bad as it sounds, is why I’m still so optimistic…

Now, if they had made Will’s feelings obvious to Mike, or even the fact that Will is gay as being obvious to Mike, but STILL had Mike behave the way he did in Vol. 2, now THAT would have sucked. It would have been canon rejection on Mike’s end.

But we didn’t even get rejection from Mike. 

Instead, we got Will coming off as a hardcore M*leven shipper in Mike's eyes, all while the audience was getting the exact opposite interpretation of this situation; that Will is helplessly in love with Mike. 

Will is able to voice the extent of his love, albeit through advice to Mike about his own situation with El, in a way that no one else on the show has been able to. Most of the other characters need a bunch of bystanders to make them realize their feelings and push them in that direction. But Will, he doesn’t need someone holding his hand along the way, telling him what the right thing to do or say is. His love isn’t something he needs to really think about in order to understand it. It just is.

(Which is SO fucking ironic when you think about how Mike always needs help with figuring out his feelings for El and even sounds like he’s reading off a script when he’s trying to explain himself to her. Whereas with Will, s2 monologue teas, it’s the most natural thing Mike’s ever done. Unscripted, straight from the heart… And both Vol. 1-2 continued to drive home this concept, so maybe jot that down..)

It’s just that, unfortunately, in Will’s eyes, Mike will never return this love, which means his only option is to let Mike go. If supporting Mike and El’s relationship means putting himself dead last in every respect, so that his best friend and his sister can be happy, Will is going to do just that. 

But as far as Mike knows, Will holds no romantic feelings for him. I mean after all, Will is guiding Mike literally every step of the way to confessing his love to El, and that doesn't sound like the behavior of someone who’s in love with you, now does it? 

So why would Mike, throw everything on the line, including the survival of their family and friends in Hawkins by not simply just telling his gf he loves her? All while El is right there loving him and needing his love to fight (presumably), with Will beside him literally rooting for him to do just that? This is very obviously the only option in Mike’s eyes.

Which is ironic, because in a way, I think that Mike has truly never seen him and Will as an option, just like Will, but for an entirely different reason. 

Mike views his feelings for Will as childish, something he will grow out of, or at least should have by now.

“We’re not kids anymore. What did you think, really? That we were never going to get girlfriends? That we were just going to sit in my basement and play games for the rest of our lives?”

If Mike can’t love El, then how can he possibly love any women? She’s special. She’s a superhero. He HAS to love her, right? It’s the best option he could ever possibly have. Well, at least considering…

But what happens when suddenly, he comes to the realization that him and Will ARE an option? And that the only thing ever stopping them was himself and his inability to just be honest with everyone and himself?

I think the truth is, there’s a reason that they’re holding off on this revelation for Mike. 

It will be a catalyst. It will change everything.

Now, how exactly do you think Mike is going to react to this? The fact that Will was in love with him this whole time and he had no idea?

Honestly, I think he’s going to react horribly, but not for the reason everyone assumes.

Because I would argue that, if Mike was going to react badly with disgust or even just let Will down nicely to confirm it’s indeed unrequited, then the Duffer’s would have just given this revelation up by now. But they haven’t.

Once Mike finds out that Will is (probably always will be) in love with him, and that instead of telling him, Will used his love to help Mike get closer to El, even when Mike himself was having doubts over and over? That Will went as far as to lie about the painting he worked so hard on for Mike in order to rekindle their dying friendship, to instead insinuate it was commission from El, to give Mike that final push he needed to even have the courage to tell El he loved her? That all the moments like this that they shared as of late, was really just Will talking about himself? That the only reason he was able to tell El he loved her in the first place, was because he was so moved by Will’s love for him??

This is going to break Mike.

And let’s be real here, two episodes would not have done this revelation justice. 

So now, just knowing the direction they went for Vol. 2, as well as coming to terms with it, I have reached the conclusion that, despite how bleak things seem now, ‘maybe all of this is happening for a reason’ (s2 Mike Wheeler, we miss u).

Which brings me to the other most important piece of the puzzle, which is that, arguably, El needs to be the one who ends things once and for all.

The general audience has been given the impression El is head over heels in love with Mike, and so of course they were rooting for Mike to get on with it and just tell her he loved her. 

But that’s the interesting part. He finally did tell her, but her reaction in the aftermath was not something a lot of fans expected. 

It seems that she’s distancing herself from Mike, a fact that Will acknowledges to Mike later at Hopper’s cabin, with Mike genuinely confused because he thought he did the one thing he had to do. 

He told her he loved her. Which makes everything alright now, right?

But maybe it doesn’t.

Maybe the reminder we got, of that speech from Max to El, about how she didn’t need Mike or Hopper or ANY man to know her worth, was foreshadowing for what honestly needs to happen in order for El to really process and realize her own true feelings about Mike.

Because, although I do believe El genuinely thought she loved Mike, is it possible that Mike was not only having doubts about saying it because of the reasons he argued, or even because of some repressed feelings for Will, but also because El hadn’t given him what he needed to truly believe she loved him.

Mike, like a lot of people, doesn’t need to hear “I love you” to believe that someone loves him.

“I didn’t say it.”

“You didn’t have to.”

He wants something more meaningful, or more specifically, something along the lines of the speech Will gave to him in the van.

Will’s confession disguised as El’s, was what Mike needed to finally say I love you to El... 

Something I think we also got caught up in, is this idea that the Duffer’s were just going to drop M*leven and throw in Byler, with everything else going on, while they still have a whole ass season to promote for another 3+ years, and to their mostly 80’s loving homophobic audience. If Byler is going to happen, it’s going to be the definition of slow-burn and endgame. That’s literally the only way. 

This puzzle is complex, which sucks if you want all the answers now, because we’re just not going to get them. If they give up all their moves, then what is the point of telling the story at all? 

Other pieces of the puzzle include things that arguably still need to happen before Byler can, even regardless of the constraints they have as show-runners who run the biggest show on Netflix’s dying platform. 

Things like Will and El’s love for each other as brother and sister. Considering all the fans that said Will hates El because he didn’t stand up to her bullies or that he’s a home-wrecker who just wants to get with her boyfriend, is why I do think they needed to debunk these insinuations within the narrative. And boy oh boy did they deliver on that front. Will is the most selfless son of a bitch on the planet, who loves his best friend and his sister so much. They made that very clear. And you can see that despite a few homophobes here and there, the general audience's reaction to Will in Vol 2 is sympathy and to Mike it's confusion and betrayal...

Hmm, making El realize she doesn't even love Mike, after making Will's unrequited feelings for Mike more clear, after making Mike behave like an IDIOT this entire time juggling these two relationships, only for him to become aware of whats going on, and to clearly be in love with Will?

Sounds like a good way to set up Byler to an audience that might not have humored it before...

And like I said, with how important I do think it was for this to happen in order for them to go the Byler route, is why I don’t necessarily see this approach as a bad thing. We even got the Will and El hug in 4x08, which maybe it’s just because Noah and Millie are so close, but I would easily rank that on my top most well-earned moments in the whole show.

We NEEDED that. Especially in terms of what is likely to come in season 5 with Byler endgame...

Also, yes the Will angst sucked and it's just trauma porn at this point. I’m not going to deny that fully. I agree with pretty much all of the criticism in regards to how they chose to do certain things when they didn't necessarily have to, but I also simultaneously am able to understand that it again, maybe this is all happening for a reason. If they are indeed going to have Will play a big role in the final season, than them forgetting his birthday, Mike being oblivious and all this other shit he's been through combined, sets up a really arc for him next season, not even necessarily a villain one, but all of this pain has the potential to lead to a happy ending. And I'm being full serious.

Like we have Finn Wolfhard saying the ending of Stranger Things will be like the ending of Schitt’s Creek??? That it will end at it's highest point. The last episode of Schitt’s Creek is literally a happily ever after gay wedding, there's no other way to interpret that…

We also know that a lot of ideas for the last seasons were planned from the beginning, with David Harbour saying that he knew the ending way back in s2 and that it's beautiful and has been the intended plan all along. That there's easter eggs that will have us going 'WOW this is what we've been watching the whole time'? That it's wonderful?

If you’re the level of Byler truther that believes they were somewhat planned all along from the beginning, then you would also know that if they plan a happy ending for Mike and Will, then they would have no problem killing us this painfully in the beginning of the end, because they know we’ll be the ones cheering on by the actual end, and it'll be the homophobes who are pissed and stuck with this result forever as endgame. 

I’m just saying, don’t be surprised when s5 gets closer and we actually see them promoting Byler… like a lot. And we actually start getting in canon hints at scenes with El herself even trying to get them together.

Groveling Mike Wheeler era?

Will finding a potential new love interest and Mike pining/jealous?

Come ONNN! You guys are way more delusional than you’re giving yourselves credit for and I urge you to join me!!!

[pencilofawesomeness]

htryds: Retirement

September X780

He knew the tea was a trap. Or at the very least, that there were strings attached, because Porlyusica had been uncharacteristically vague about why she wanted him to come, but really, he should have seen this coming.

“I’m retiring.”

Acnologia set his tea down slowly. “Didn’t you already retire?” he asked tiredly.

Porlyusica huffed. “I tried to, but those fools of Makarov’s always needed me for something, be it some injury or magic ailment. As Magnolia doesn’t have a competent doctor of its own, I begrudgingly continued as a part-time physician for Fairy Tail. I never intended for this to last, however.”

“What, have you been training an apprentice all this time?” he asked, but it was more of a teasing statement. “I didn’t picture you as the type.”

Her scowl was expected. “Of course not. I don’t have the patience to train some human in my ways. But I don’t have to, now that you’re here.”

The words registered slowly, but he saw where she was going all the same. “No.”

“Acnologia,” Porlyusica scolded. “I know you don’t have the equipment I do, but beyond being a practitioner of healing magic, you are knowledgeable in medicine and ailment, despite pretending not to be.”

“I’m not pretending about anything. I haven’t practiced medicine in…” Shit, how long had it been? It was the 700s now, and it had been the 300s… “—in four hundred years!” It had been strange enough reawakening his healing magic, but that was only a matter of what amounted to muscle memory. Still, the nature of healing magic was simple; it was good for cleaning and closing wounds faster than the body could do on its own—but it only mimicked the body. It wasn’t medicine, or the study thereof. That was much more complicated. Porlyusica knew this. So, when he said he was rusty, he meant it. What little that he’s reviewed through readings barely scratched the surface of it.

Porlyusica could not produce magic, but she could still attempt murder with her eyes. “You’ll learn,” she countered, and it might as well have been an order.

Acnologia was in between a boulder and a canyon. She was persistent, but she was also out of her mind if the woman thought that he magically acquired people skills better than her own. (They were both hopeless.) Not to mention, for the first time in centuries, he was busy. “I understand where you’re coming from, but I can’t do anything full time either. Sure, I help out where I can, but between the emergency S-Class jobs and the kids, I don’t have that kind of time to dedicate. Besides, with my sleep schedule the way it is, somebody is going to die—and I tried re-syncing to a human sleep schedule, believe me: it didn’t work.” It took longer for dragons to reach the resting heartrate of deep sleep, and they stayed in it far longer. Toying with that cycle, back when he was afraid someone was going to totter off of a cliff or starve to death had been…possible, but stressful.

His (very logical) reasons didn’t persuade her. “And you think I dedicate my life for these reckless humans? I’m not asking you to change careers—just to let me retire in peace.”

“Porlyusica,” he argued. “I honestly don’t know as much as you do. Besides, I’m not even licensed anymore.”

He was fine playing medic and healing wounds, but there was something terrifying about truly being a doctor again. He… He couldn’t. Shouldn’t, even.

“If you have questions, ask. I’d much rather deal with you than some human brat,” she countered easily. “And you were licensed, so it wouldn’t be an issue stepping back up.”

“Yes, I was,” he pressed, emphasizing the past tense of it. “Four hundred years ago! Medicine advanced leaps and bounds since then. Not to mention everything I’ve forgotten.”

“Just as much as it devolved. Healing magic isn’t even practiced anymore. It died with dragons, gods, and prideful humans. Time doesn’t matter that much. It’s fleeting anyway.”

Acnologia clenched his teeth, trying not to stare at his palm. Saying he was “licensed” at all was a stretch. Back in the Minstrel region of a few centuries ago, doctors wore a badge—a tattoo on their left palm. It was something that had to be received from another individual with the brand, and nobody knew how the tradition started. He wasn’t even sure if people did that anymore, down there. The title came with the promise to do no harm and to help whenever possible; it was a creed he threw away when he chose violence. It was just as well that when the dragonization process transformed his body from the inside out, it removed that mark along with all of his old scars.

“Porlyusica, please. I get that you want to retire, but I don’t know what you expect from me.”

“To keep living,” she snapped. There was a note of desperation in her voice that Porlyusica rarely let show, so Acnologia wisely shut his mouth. “To be there. Acnologia, you know I’m aging. Quickly, even. I don’t know how much longer this body will last. This world may not be mine, and these humans aren’t my people, but I’m not so callous that I would abandon those sentimental fools that took me in.” Porlyusica sucked in a breath, swiftly turning so she was no longer facing him. “You’re still young. You’re understanding them faster than I ever could. You would be better for them.”

Damn. Acnologia wasn’t sure what he could possibly say to that. He…understood where she was coming from. It was hard enough to manage yourself when everything around you was a new and difficult concept to grasp. Honestly, he was amazed by the fact that he was interacting with people at all—with some understanding, even. Though Porlyusica gave him too much credit in that matter; he never would have managed it without the kids. Turned out, suddenly caring for time-displaced dragon slayer children presented the opportunity to learn things fast. Sometimes, his head was still spinning.

Not that it made him any more comfortable with the idea that Porlyusica presented. However, it was…true, what she said, about lifespans. Acnologia now aged like a dragon, like Porlyusica now aged as a human. Though he wouldn’t label her as about to kick the bucket, no matter how she spoke. It was also true that he was technically around everyone more often; if he was there, he would deal with a situation before somebody had to go get Porlyusica. He was begrudgingly more efficient, and Acnologia never minded until the notion that he really was the first line of medical defense slammed into it.

“Fine,” he relented softly. “But they’ll still have to bother you first in the winter.”

Porlyusica looked far too smug as she finished off her tea.

He…had a lot of reading to do. Acnologia focused on that, and not the unsettling realization that this was somehow…official now. Though, maybe he should be trying to give himself some more credit; if a killer could be trusted to raise kids, then maybe this wasn’t all that different.

---

One of the reasons I can’t hate the anime is that the bit they added about Acno being a doctor pre-war is just so golden for juicy contrasts and conflicts of character. Also, I know this is not a Frosch piece like I thought, but inspiration came to finish this so at least y’all get something this week.

[gch1995]

The fact that Adam doesn’t understand the concept of pre-ordering is basically the biggest reason why OUAT lost so many viewers as the years passed. They set up potential for amazing character growth, actual character development, and amazing stories, then pulled absurd, contrived, and painful twists out of their asses that disrupted all previously established continuity and/or forced the characters to suddenly morph into melodramatically atrocious, regressive, and nonsensical pod!people out of nowhere with no sort of organic lead up to re-rail them in cheaply shocking ways.

They set up potential for actual character growth and entertaining stories going forward, but then delivered us bullshit more often than not instead.

This fandom will never stop and I’m so proud. x

[pitch-pearl-void]

(The borderlands anon from however long ago)

So, I finished watching the show a couple days ago, because there were a couple things that showed up consistently in fics i that I didn’t understand (blood blossoms, some of the baddies, a handful of fenton inventions, etc)

First off, I still very much prefer pitch pearl to amethyst ocean or whatever the hell it’s called

And also, do you know where pitch pearl as a ship came from? I know there’s the episode with fun and super, but is that all there really was? Or were there more early fandom headcannons that supported them as separate beings?

Hello again! Sorry this took so long, I wasn’t sure how to answer 😅

Canon did a poor job with AO. I would even say it did it dirty, but it's popular enough it doesn't need that kind of support lol. If you really want to give it a fair shake I’d recommend reading fanfiction for it, but I understand everyone’s preferences are different. I personally don’t ship it because shipping best friends is something I have real issues with, but it’s not a bad ship if you want something that’s soft and makes you feel all warm inside.

Onto pitch pearl tho!

Tbh, I’m not entirely sure myself how pitch pearl as a ship started. I don’t believe it was because of the Fun and Super episode, largely because those two are rarely used in the ship. 

I asked someone else, and they thought that moment in What You Want when Phantom was first torn from Fenton as this colorless ghost might have been what started the concept they weren’t one whole person. Because, honestly? This ship goes far, FAR back. A lot of the older fics made Phantom into a voice in Danny’s head or a spirit that could separate from him at will without the need of the Ghost Catcher in order to offer Danny comfort. They had no rules because there weren’t any set way yet. The fact that Phantom could move and think independently from Danny was enough to get people thinking. It wasn't all romantic, most of it was borderline at best. They mostly focused on hurt/comfort and self-love, finding a balance between human and ghost with the occasional kiss thrown in.

Then there’s TUE, where Danny meets his evil future self and learns that his ghost half killed his human half after merging with Plasmius. It definitely gave more credence to the idea there might be more to Danny’s ghost half than simply having ghost powers. It aired before Identity Crisis, so it set the stage with a BOOM and had a much bigger impact on the ship. Phantom being seen as his own person is a bit more credible when he’s willing to kill Danny. It helped that TUE was a VERY popular episode. It drew in a huge crowd, and everyone was curious about what made the ghost half snap like that if he’s supposed to be Danny.

Supporting that idea is that a lot of the older art and fics took a darker view of Phantom in general, seeing him as Danny’s darker half or a ghost out for revenge after being imprisoned for so long. Even the name “pitch pearl” was created with that in mind. I always thought of it as “white hair/black hair” in the same vein as AO taking inspiration from Sam’s purple eyes and Danny’s blue, but when I went searching for the origins for the name, the old explanation set Danny Fenton as white pearl and Phantom as pitch black. The reasoning for that was partly their jumpsuits pre- and post- accident, but also because Fenton is human and “pure” while Phantom is a ghost and dangerous--because without Fenton, Phantom became Dan and destroyed everything.

For obvious and somewhat personal reasons, I don’t subscribe to that. But it does make all the art where Phantom looks evil while holding Danny make sense. I don’t like dark romance, and I’m personally thrilled we moved away from such a dark beginning, but it likely had a hand in the early popularity of pitch pearl.

If I were to guess how else it started when the source has them as one person, I would say it was most likely the fanart? Putting Fenton and Phantom side-by-side has a yin-yang appeal, and when they interact in art, you get the sense that these are two characters, not one. This was really popular when the fandom was much bigger than it is now.

For instance

Save Our Soul by nycken isn't a shipping piece by any means, but it could very easily give rise to the idea, especially if someone is new to the fandom.

They did not shy away from it being a self-cest ship back then, though. The idea that Phantom wasn't Danny was there, but I don't think anyone looked for evidence in the show to support it. That seems to be something the ship has evolved into rather than something it started from, and it is honestly my favorite way to see it.

I do have many headcanons about how they aren’t the same person in canon if you're interested! There’s the out of sync transformations, the title sequence and how Super and Fun are shown to separate in the Identity Crisis episode, Vlad’s inability to clone Danny, the way Danny talks to himself, just all kinds of things! If you want to hear more about those I'd be happy to answer 😁 (they'd probably be easier too lol)

But yeah, I think it was TUE and fanart. There may have been other factors (I think this was around the time Yu-Gi-Oh and puzzleshipping was popular too) because fandom doesn't exist in a vacuum, but I really couldn't say for sure. It's a ship that means different things for everyone who ships it. I like the psychological questions when they start off as "one" (the bonded peeps version) and enjoy the aus like soooo much, but others like it only for aus, and others like it as a crack ship, and then there are even others who like it as something dangerous. Some people love it for Fun and Super in Identity Crisis because they're just fun caricatures. It's hard to find the origin point when it has so many branches lol

[nealcassatiel]

I read scripts for a living...... I don’t understand what on earth this ‘note’ is doing here, or why on earth Dabb would have written it.... something’s off...

I have NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN A SCRIPT. Mainly for this reason: EVERYTHING YOU PUT IN A SCRIPT DRAFT BEYOND A WRITER’S DEVELOPMENT DRAFT IS THERE FOR A REASON IN ORDER TO TELL THE CAST AND CREW HOW TO EXECUTE THE SCRIPT. And as a general rule, I have NEVER seen a writer’s note within a script. I know they happen on a RARE occurrence, but i can’t emphasise enough how rare they are. I have never seen them used in a previous SPN script. And they just aren’t used because YOU HAVE TO HANDLE NOTES LIKE THAT within the scene description, action, dialogue, or by using parenthesis or dashes or other screenwriting grammar-use tools. This pacing and tonal note of making sure ‘moments can breathe’ would and should be written into the fabric of every scene by any writer worth their salt. And that includes Andrew Dabb. And it’s not even like this is a complicated note to add within each scene? Essentially, this is an instruction on pacing which is dealt with within scene action and descriptions. I feel like these notes from the writer are used in films where the reader might not be able to understand what the viewer would see once the episode is made - so actors who play multiple roles, or if there is a seriously complicated concept to understand as a reader but less complicated to understand as a viewer - think trying to write Tenet. Anyway, my point is, that this up-top note we are to understand is written by Dabb. It’s a note from the writer to the cast and crew - so from Dabb. Why does he need to excuse the length of the script through a screenwriting Writers Note that IS BARELY USED and which I have NEVER seen him use before in an SPN script (although correct me if wrong). Who is Dabb telling this to? Why is it so important to put at the top of the script? Why, as a great writer (prior to 1520) can he not write this within the scenes themselves? 

So who is the pre-teaser note for? Apparently this script is for the translators (which is why the name of it as ‘FINAL DRAFT’ is absolutely bizarre, but i suppose this is a translator thing? But if this note pre the teaser had been added before for the production crew, why would this need to be explained to them? EVERYTHING in a script (which is a working, technical document) is there to inform the cast and crew about how to technically execute the script. So why would this note be needed for the cast and crew? Surely the amount of pages and how the scenes are written are enough to tell everyone that the moments need to ‘breathe’? And regardless, making sure moments ‘breathe’ is down to Robert Singer - does Andrew Dabb need to write that direction cue to Singer and for everyone to see? No. He doesn’t.

So if this script draft is for translators, do they need this specific direction? 

The script has revisions, therefore it’s a shooting script for the production crew so do the crew need this to be explained to them? But why? How will this really inform their work? Why are they even OWED this note? Or if this is for the translators if this was added post shooting - why do the translators need to know this? They’ll get the final cut and just do the dubbing/translations regardless of how long ‘moments breathe for’. The scenes will be taking in unhealthy gulps of air when they get to the translators who can’t exactly add more breathing space. They translate what they get - and can’t add more pauses so…?

I just don’t understand, why in a working script used to technically execute the production of an episode of television, ANYONE needs to be given this as a note? WHO IS THIS NOTE FOR?! 

Which leads me onto my ONLY A THEORY theory. This note, which reads more like a reasoning or an excuse, and written as a Writer’s Note at the top of the script - something I have NEVER seen within the industry, was purposefully added to try and cover up the bizarre cuts and omissions within the script. This isn’t a technical note to Singer, and isn’t needed by the cast who will read the pages in the way directed by singer and by Dabb himself. The lighting or props or locations people can’t add more breathing space. Dabb and Singer will be watching over the Final Cut and make sure the astronomical amounts of oxygen and unnecessary montages and dead air are all in the final cut. 

And regardless, this note speaks to the PACING of the script, and any good writer should never add a note to make sure everyone slows the pace of a script - the body of the script itself should pace the episode. And if we look at the scenes themselves, the moments ‘breathe’, or should we say - there is slow pacing created by pauses and ‘beats’ within the scene anyway. The ‘Note’ at the top is ALREADY written into the script, take for example this page:

There is, clearly, multiple directions written into this scene to make sure that the pacing is slow, there are many pauses, and the ‘moment breathe’. In fact, there are NEVER MORE THAN FOUR WORDS before punctuation is added to make sure a pause occurs. Go through it for yourselves, any time you see: ‘--’ , ‘.’ , ‘...’ , ‘,’ , ‘(then)’ , ‘takes a breath’ , ‘a long, painful beat’ - any time you see any of those, or there is any action written, this is a pause. If there was any more oxygen and air to let this scene breathe, it would be doubled over with dizziness. 

So, from a technical standpoint, this note up top is REDUNDANT and UNNECESSARY for a working, technical shooting script. And regardless, when Dabb wants to make scenes breathe, he has already written this into the fabric of those scenes. He writes pacing into his scenes well, so this note is pointless and certainly not useful to anyone from a technical standpoint. So why is it in there? And who is it intended for? Is Dabb trying to excuse the fuckery that went on with people messing with his script to the crew? Is this an addition from the Network who didn’t want crew or cast questioning why a finale episode is so short and there are so many additions? Is this added when the script was altered for the translators in case it got leaked (as it has done) and they needed a cover-up/excuse if fans see it? 

Overall, the presence of such a bizarre note and my inability to work out why on earth Dabb would write something so redundant technically, and which sounds like a big excuse/false explanation of why this script is such a mess, makes me realise that either they’re covering their asses with fake excuses in case this got leaked, or the showrunners/network needed to add this to the script in order to explain wtf is going on to the crew or translators. 

[teruthecreator]

okay. thoughts on the grad finale

gonna slap it under a readmore bc i’m Sure i’m gonna ramble. 

uh spoiler warning for the finale of taz graduation, as well as spoilers for the season in general.

also, these are my own thoughts of how the season went, what the themes were, etc! if you don’t agree with me, that’s fine! but i don’t wanna have a convo w you in the replies about it i’ll be honest. if you want to share your opinion so badly, make your own post, alright? that good? we cool?

aight. so. finale thoughts.

to make it short: i think the finale was a satisfying end of a very good arc. 

to expand upon that, let me share what i think the themes of graduation were and why the finale satisfies those themes. 

i made a post about this a while back (here it is if you want) but my honest belief was that the theme of graduation was self-reliance: the concept that you don’t allow yourself to be governed by forces that go against your own beliefs. this concept was coined by essayist ralph waldo emerson to talk about how the american people shouldn’t allow the government to create laws that go against the will of the people. now, understandably, this feels very anti-capitalist which is what i think a lot of fans believed was reflected through the season. 

but, in reality, self-reliance has more to do with being active in your government and making sure you’re being represented the way you want to be by your representatives. that’s sort of the vibe emerson was going for in his essay, and i think. in a sense? that translates to graduation. but i took self-reliance in the more metaphorical about breaking away from those things that are controlling you. which, in graduation, was A Lot Of Things. 

the way i saw it, there were two major groups that inflicted order upon the world and the thundermen--conveniently separated as order and chaos (not the deities though, just the concepts). 

the order half of control existed mostly through the school and the HOG. the HOG created the economic reliance on the heroes and villains system, which removed all literal meaning from those terms and turned them into bureaucratic titles. society existed under these very strict checks and balances; heroes and villains supplied money to the kingdom in terms of entertainment, which then boosted that kingdom’s creditability and allowed them to contribute more to nua’s economy, which then led heroes and villains to have a higher demand, thus perpetuating the cycle. it’s important to note that this term does not represent the sort of morality we expect for heroes and villains--hell, even the term “evil” turned into an arbitrary term used to show those heroes and villains who failed the system. this is the more prominent representation of control that the thundermen break away from in achieving their own self-reliance. they don’t see the value in a system that holds no real moral code (fitzroy Especially, but i’ll get into that in a bit), and can’t help the public when there’s actually a serious situation. as we saw with althea in the beginning, the HOG had no way to help the thundermen when they were dealing with the whole Demon Prince situation (as he had already placed some of his own people in there, proving these kind of systems are easily corruptible). so this wasn’t a system meant to Actually create heroes and villains--it was just a way of boosting the economy. 

the chaos half of control existed primarily through grey and Chaos. grey represented how chaos could be controlled, through various means. he planted that tree for the centaurs to fight over because he knew it would constantly create conflict, which he enjoyed. he kept the school under a watchful eye to prevent anyone from stepping out of line with his grand ideas, and used several manipulation tactics to try and get his way (most notably, his own admittance of grooming fitzroy into joining his side, which didn’t work). grey was the perfect example of how chaos does not automatically mean a lack of control. he was very controlling in how he did things because he had an endgoal: find hieronymous and have a war. but he didn’t even realize he was contributing to a greater idea, that being Chaos’s insistence on causing general disarray. as we realize now, Chaos’s plan was both for them and Order, but i’m leaving Order out for a second because they only really rear their head in towards the end. for the most part, audiences were led to assume that Chaos was the Big Bad(TM); they were the one pulling the strings, allowing things to happen to cause general chaos and disarray. them supplying random mortals with their endless power was a way to plant chaos into the world of nua; but it was a chaos they controlled. fitzroy resisting them was not simply a refusal to bend to Chaos, but it was resisting the control put on him through his magic. 

these systems were constricting the thundermen on both sides. when they thought they’d find help in one side, they were disappointed to find that there was nothing anyone could do. the only people who could fix their problems were...them. so they forged a new path, set new ideas, and became self-reliant. that’s what i think is the most important aspect of graduation; not the anti-capitalist implications of turning over the economic and political systems in place, but the idea that if nothing that is supposed to help you is actually helping that you can just...do your own thing! 

and i think that’s what the finale really shows, at the end of the day. that these forms of control were not doing anything helpful, and were in fact ruining the fabric of space-time! that’s where i think Order comes in because Order is really...the ultimate culmination of control. they are aware that Everything being done will benefit their cause. the HOG? well, they make sure everybody’s so incompetent that they can do their work. grey? well, he’ll contribute to the plan without even realizing it. they even manipulated Chaos and enacted their own form of control over Chaos to make sure that they had no reason to believe that this plan couldn’t go wrong. but Order knew. Order always knew there was a chance for error, and that chance was very great. but they didn’t care! so long as they had control of things, they could try a hundred times to get it right. they had no care for mortals, unlike Chaos. 

the thundermen showing Chaos the truth is the final jenga piece that collapses this tower of control. which is why the finale is so great. 

travis does a phenomenal job of incorporating chaos (general chaos) into the battle mechanics. it may be stupid and slightly arbitrary, but having them change forms randomly and having to adapt to those new circumstances really does exemplify the season!!! the thundermen were constantly forced into new situations (being sidekicks/henches, fitzroy becoming a villain, being let in on the heiro dog situation, the unbroken chain trial, joining forces w grey, etc.), and in all of them they simply found a way to adapt and keep working their way. which made the finale generally interesting and also thematically interesting! 

i think my favorite part of the entire fight scene is right at the end, when argo chucks the shark’s tooth necklace at Order. and time stops. and they’re given a choice. 

the fact that they leave it to a coin toss?? oh my god...how fucking FITTING!! like, that’s disorderly. that’s going your own way. it’s new, it’s terrifying, it has DIRE UNKNOWNS ON EITHER SIDE, but it’s what they do! and...it ends up working out! i think it would’ve worked out either way, but the fact that they left it up to chance really shows how they aren’t allowing anything to control their actions. 

AND THEN WE GET TO THE EPILOGUE. MY GOD I LOVE THE EPILOGUE I’M GONNA GO OFF SO MUCH. 

first off, i loved hearing how Nua adapts to losing this very significant form of government/economic contributor and turns to more people-based work. citizens uniting together, fixing things, making amends, THAT’S SELF-RELIANCE BABEY!!! THAT’S THE WHOLE EMERSON SHIT! HAVING A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAT ACTUALLY HAS THE INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE AT LARGE!!! YEAHHHHHHHHH THAT’S THE WHOLE SELF-RELIANCE THING!

now, i’ll break it down by characters: 

fitzroy

GOD. LOVE IT. FIRST OFF, absolutely ADORED how his character arc involved him stripping himself of these self-assigned titles because he actually has an identity that is all his own and he doesn’t NEED arbitrary titles to prove his worth because HE HAS IT IN HIMSELF. not to self-plug or anything, but that’s ssoss!fitzroy’s WHOLE SHIT. I’VE ALREADY BEEN ON THIS TRAIN, BITCH, AND TO KNOW I GOT IT SO RIGHT...GOD. FEELS GOOD. 

but also, i just really enjoy how his ending went in general. the fact that he doesn’t really know what he wants to do, so he just...does stuff he likes to do? that’s so good! because, if you remember, fitzroy had a Very set schedule of life events when the campaign started. he was going to get his wiggenstaffs degree, go back knight school, get his knight school degree, and then go to goodcastle. but all of that was based on a very limited understanding of himself. 

fitzroy’s character arc has primarily focused finding himself, specifically in terms of identity. for someone who was bullied for his past, the present formation of himself was Extremely important to fitzroy. he thought that shutting out his past and taking on this grandiose title of knighthood would make him something more than himself. he would no longer be fitzroy; the poor, country kid trying to make it in a big world. he’d be Sir Fitzroy Maplecourt; respected, honored, revered, with a title to prove it. 

he explains to fauxronymous (pre-reveal grey) that the reason he wanted to be a knight was because he wanted to assist in doing good. morally good. fitzroy has Always had a very clear sense of his morality; this comes through when he refuses Chaos on the basis of many people having to die if he agreed. but being a knight also had the added of bonus of a very respectable title that no one would want to look beyond, which fitzroy felt he needed because...i don’t think he Saw anything beyond that. in himself. he wasn’t himself for a very long time, and i don’t know if he ever thought he would be again. he’d wear this new identity, start a new life, and be happier....he hoped. 

then, things changed! and he started to realize that arbitrary titles don’t do shit because plenty of people with Big Important Titles ended up being Awful People! so he started to value himself For Himself; his wit, his humor, his strength, his magical prowess. and, i think, he started to wonder what knighthood was Really about. was it about upholding a moral good? or was it just another bureaucracy filled with people who won’t do shit when things get bad. 

i think this is why him becoming a lawyer is fitting. especially because of the reasoning he gives sylvia nite. now for A LOT OF PEOPLE, i’m sure they hear lawyer and assume some corporate hotshot who doesn’t give a shit about people. but fitzroy is Not applying to be a corporate laywer. he SPECIFICALLY telsl sylvia that he wants to help people who cannot help themselves, and he wants to do good in that way. THAT kind of lawyer is more of the pro-bono, district lawyer. the ones that don’t make crazy amounts of cash, but help those who cannot afford lawyers and represent them when the government is fucking them over. those lawyers don’t rely on title, they rely on principle. 

that’s the perfect representation of fitzroy’s growth. holding his identity within himself, while still trying to do good by those who need it. 

firbolg (aka gary) 

i think the firbolg’s ending is so unique but so...right for him. his character arc has really been focused around finding his family. he had one, in the beginning, in his clan. but that didn’t end up, y’know...working out that much. so he had to go out into the world alone--something that firbolg’s are rarely--and try and navigate these foreign spaces all by himself. 

we see very early on how he latches onto the idea of groups. he likes being considered a part of the thundermen; he very much hoists himself upon the CFO title and wears it proudly. i think, where fitzroy needed to find identity within himself, the firbolg needed to find it within other people. which is completely okay! he’s still an individual, but you can tell he finds comfort in numbers because that’s what he is used to. 

him going back to his clan was, i believe, his finally severance with his identity as “firbolg”. he would never be welcomed back to his clan, and one of the few people in his life who supported him was now dead. but his father was proud of him; his father was happy he seemed to find his own clan, even if it wasn’t with other firbolgs. from that moment on, i think the firbolg begins to try finding himself within the thundermen. within his friends.

so his epilogue is neat! it definitely captures the loneliness he feels on his own, and how he feels lost with himself without others. i think it might seem silly to some that he would become a gary, but i think it’s fitting. the garys were always present in his time at school, and they were always helpful. they didn’t mind how long it took him to talk because the gary’s are stone gargoyles--what the fuck do they care about time? it was a group that the firbolg saw as familiar to him--always willing to help, slow, stony, and attuned to a larger group. 

and i think the way gary takes this idea of unity and family and puts it into financial assistance just...it just ties everything together! we saw how attached he got to the concept of finances, thanks to his very confusing accounting class. so he had all of this new knowledge--this knowledge that represented a separation from firbolgs--and this new clan. and he used it to help other clans and families!! i think the fact that the Garys financial advice works specifically with groups is what makes this so fitting. because gary wants families to feel stable within themselves; he understands how finances can create struggle and divides, and he wants to provide relief. 

giving financial advice to communities so they rely on themselves and not the government (aka inviting them to be controlled once more) is a VERY self-reliant concept. not that i think gary’s goal is to have no social networks to exist, but he wants to give communities the ability to rely on one another and foster that feeling of togetherness. so groups aren’t fighting over things, but are trusting and loving and relying. 

just like gary’s always wanted. and just like what he has with the thundermen.

argo 

argo’s ending is probably the funniest, but also the sweetest. i think that argo’s character arc revolved around finding his place. we see how argo’s early personality and motivations revolved around his past. he very much had a revenge story since the start; he wanted to enact revenge on the commodore for murdering his mother, no matter what it took. which made him very limited!! in terms of the self. he saw himself less for what he was now, and what he was then. and what he couldn’t do then. 

we see how much he finds comfort in being a part of the thundermen, but also how he feels...out of place. i think this is because a part of him is still attached to his past and doesn’t think he can do anything beyond his set plan. the unbroken chain certainly contributes to this, by not only separating him from the trio but also reinforcing his connection to his past through his mother’s involvement in the unbroken chain. 

the commodore also being a part of the unbroken chain is, i think, what causes the shift from past to present within argo. his life’s goal is standing right in front of him--attached to the group his mother once was a part of--with his friends at his side. letting the thundermen in on his history is the start of bridging these two halves of argo. and the fact that the thundermen are so willing to helps makes argo feel more a part of the team and more a part of this reality. 

when he kills the commodore, it isn’t intense. it isn’t overly dramatic (minus the fight prior, which was BADASS), it isn’t crazily staged. it is argo, staring down the commodore who lies prone on the ground. 

he kills himself unceremoniously and completes his life-long mission. 

what becomes of him in the epilogue is the culimination of both past and present. he takes what he knows and loves (the sea, the mariah, sailing) and blends it with what he’s come to love now (his friends, this adventure, and making people happy). there are SO many instances where argo uses performance to his advantage. this man is piloted by clint mcelroy, of COURSE he’s going to have a flair for the dramatic. 

so for him to open up a themed cruiseline, based on the stories of him and his friends? SO FITTING. and it isn’t forcing himself to leave his past behind or to completely ignore his present circumstances. because he’s found a place in the now, in the merging of these two sides. and by merging them, he paints a bright future for himself. a future that is partially known, partially not. partially old, partially new.

but it’s all his. 

after that, i think their final scene is just...sweet. a nice, jovial, joking send-off to a nice season. it proves these people have grown and will continue to grow, even when we no longer see their story. it does exactly what graduation does--shows you a struggle, a triumph, and a glimpse into the future. 

i’ll miss it so much, but there’s nothing more i could’ve asked of this ending. it was exactly what it needed to be; nothing more, nothing less. 

[serpentstole]

Can I ask what's wrong with Michael W Ford's books? I never read them but I've seen often people recommending them, so I'm curious. Thank you and have a nice day.

Thanks for the question! Sorry if this gets a little long, TL;DR is at the bottom but I've broken down some more specific examples in point form.

I'll preface this by saying that if people get something worthwhile from Michael W Ford's books, that's their business and I'm happy for them. However, there's a few things about his writing and him as a person that I don't really love and struggle to get behind. Most of the specific textual examples I give are from the Bible of the Adversary specifically, as it's one of his more famous books and the only one I personally have had the mental fortitude to page through so far.

- I'm immediately leery of anyone who's often described as a "visionary" or "luminary" on websites selling or listing their books, especially when I've gotten the feeling that it's just that his books are accessible and plentiful. Even among fans of authors like E. A. "Become A Living God" Koetting, the general opinion seems to be that his books lack a lot of consistency and are a bit poorly written. Can confirm for the Bible of the Adversary, at least. There's some parts of that thing that could have used a once-over by an editor.

- I try very hard not to use what happened to the Greater Church of Lucifer/GCoL against him. Another member of the community that I do still (loosely, infrequently) interact with was also involved, and while I sincerely wish they'd both more deeply researched the man they were signing up to run a very public and scrutinized church with, I think his turning into a scam artist who publicly converted to Christianity was enough punishment there. Likewise, I'm a bit uncomfortable with his past involvement with the Order of Nine Angels/ONA/O9A given the fact that they're a pack of murder advocating nazis, but apparently he left when he discovered that fact, so I try to give him the benefit of the doubt that he truly did distance himself from them immediately upon learning of their beliefs, as I don't know when these things became more widely known. However, both of these fumbles alongside how he presents himself and his books just don't sit well with me, as the most generous interpretation is that he was twice-misled in some pretty dangerous and harmful ways by those that are damaging to the public perception of Luciferianism, but still likes to be some figurehead of the Luciferian community. People make mistakes, and people can be misled, and people can learn from past experiences, but his track record is a bit upsetting for a supposed authority.

- His work includes pieces and ideas from occultists or practices that I tend to avoid in my own practice and study, such as Thelema and Crowley's writing as a whole, inspiration taken from the Temple of Set/Setian magic, Qlipoth (because it wouldn't be a Luciferian grimoire without pilfered Jewish mysticism), and forms of Gnosticism that embrace the idea of God as an evil demiurge (which i explained my discomfort with in my previous post). I'm also not a huge fan of his "all magic comes from within" approach (and find it hard to reconcile with his frequent use of Luciferian deities/spirits and demons), nor that he'll talk about Cain's role in "Luciferian grimoires" without actually naming any... though given how similar a piece of Lilith themed artwork he's done looks to Andrew Chumbley's illustration, I assume he means the sort of books the Cultus Sabbati was writing. I wish I still had the Ford version saved or could remember which of his books it's from, the side by side comparison is painful but without it I risk looking like I'm making things up.

- Heavy, heavy use of Lilith, which I don't love for reasons I outlined before. She mostly seems to appear whenever spooky lustful sex magick is being discussed, which is great, that's great.

- He also uses the Wiccan wheel of the year sprinkled in among his more Luciferian focused holy days, which is just really funny to me. Why are we celebrating Beltane, Michael? Why are we celebrating Imbolg? (Page 69)

- He likes to use a lot of "black magic" and "vampyre magic" stuff which tends to feel very sensationalized and over the top to me. I've seen discussions of vampiric magic I found very interesting, but so far his hasn't been one of them.

- He sometimes seems to conflate Lucifer with Samael which I really truly dislike, though it's admittedly not the most baffling or out of left field take I've seen.

- Ford at times seems to either willfully misrepresent or misunderstand information he's passing along. For example, in the Bible of the Adversary he says that Cain's name comes from "...root ‘Kanah’ which means to possess. This by itself presents the antinomian nature of his essence, while instead of sacrificing his most bountiful items to the Lord, he kept them for himself." As I understand it, discussion surrounding Cain's name possibly coming from the Hebrew word קנה (kana) lean more into it being the word for to get or to obtain, referencing Eve's declaration after his conception that she'd gotten a man from the Lord. I'm all for alternate interpretations, but it feels like needless edgy-fying to fit the narrative he's trying to present. (Quote from Page 58)

- He'll say some absolutely bonkers shit like "Abel in some Luciferian Lore is considered a lower pre-form of Cain, thus the sacrifice was not literal" with zero citations or references. Like sir what the fuck does that mean, what Lore, please give us the lore please. (Footnote, Page 59)

- His interpretation of the Watchers and the Book of Enoch is so insultingly bad that I won't even relay it here, but if I see one more person claim that an angel, demon, or spirit they want to distance from Christianity or Judaism is actually a Babylonian god I'm going to go feral.

- As I've hinted at above, it feels like he'll just cherry pick and regurgitate for no real purpose. A few spirits from other texts like the Lesser Key and the Grimoire Verum get mentioned for... mostly the set of names, it seems like, he just kind of lists them out of context.

TL;DR, Michael W Ford feels (to me at least) like someone who has picked out the more appealing and edgy occult trivia and magic he could find from a wide range of sources, recontextualized the parts that didn't appeal to him until they fit his aesthetic and purposes, and presented them as a workable entry point to the Luciferian religion and its potential magical systems that is all flash no substance... and then could barely polish the flash. I don't like that he's many people's first exposure to the concept of theistic Luciferianism, and I don't like how authoritatively he presents his jumbled works as what the religion is truly about when it's so broad a label. Again, if there is something that someone finds useful within his books I am very happy for them, but I have struggled to find anything I could point to that make them worth the read... even for me to investigate further keep critiquing.

I honestly do not know why so people recommend them, unless it's just that they're easy to buy, reasonably inexpensive, and specifically have the Luciferian label on them. If that's truly the case, those people are being lazy and uncritical in a way that doesn't speak well to their apparent Luciferian ideals.

[clusterduck28]

hi! i promise i don’t mean to come across as rude, i’m just genuinely curious as to what you meant on that last mental health post where you said “Mental disorders are, in fact, social constructs. Just like gender and a bunch of other stuff, who knew...!”

are you saying that mental disorders are a made up thing by society? and if so, what do you make of ADHD, Bipolar Mania, and schizophrenia? i personally have the first two and my symptoms aren’t made up because i accepted societies ideas of Mania, there is an actual chemical imbalance in my brain.

if you’re talking about about actually putting names to illnesses, then i can definitely see where you’re coming from. medicine is evolving every day and obviously there will be advancements and changes to certain diagnoses, but it kind of rubs me the wrong way when you compare mental disorders to gender - which is definitely made up by society - because it implies that you mean that mental disorders are just something made up by a group of people and not something that is real and affects around 970 Million people (a rough estimate from the world health organization from 2022)

again, i really don’t mean to be rude so i hope it doesn’t come across that way!

I don't think this came off as rude anon, don't worry about it :3 I'll expand on this real quick

So, basically, yes the symptoms are real, the chemical imbalances in the brain are also real and measurable, as well as like physiological brain abnormalities, ect. The names, definitions and categories we use to describe them are, however, socially constructed.

An interesting example I just came up with to illustrate this would be to think about prehistoric cave people who had nearly identical brain structures to our own but have yet to organize themselves into complex social systems like we have in modern times. Imagine yourself being born in pre-historic times with the exact same brain structure and chemistry you have right now, you would experience the exact same set of symptoms but you wouldn't know to think of them as 'ADHD' or 'Bipolar mania', etc. because these concepts simply don't exist yet. To summerized, the types of experiences that society now considers to be mental disorders have been present in human populations as long as our species existed but their names and categorization are a relatively recent invention.

Now bringing this back to gender, which is a social construction that affects over 7.75 billion people around the world (rough estimate I just googled lol) Again, thinking about prehistoric cave people, they actually didn't have the concept of gender for a good long while. They, of course still exhibited the same broad range of primary and secondary sex characteristics all mammies do but the social roles of 'man' and 'woman' had to be socially constructed at some point during the evolution of human social order. My understanding is that those roles were necessary for early division of labor, as some configurations of the human body are better suited for certain kinds of labor than others and constructing those categories along the lines of sex characteristics was the most efficient way of doing it. In other words, gender used to be kind like a job - a thing that you are because of the things that you do (A plumber is a plumber because he does plumbing, a man is a man because he does man tasks)

So the same way the genders were socially constructed to meet society's need to organize labor more efficiently, the various categories of mental disorders were constructed to meet society's need to take the individuals who experience various kinds of mental distress and better integrate them into the social order.

I feel like many people treat the term 'social construct' as some sort of value judgement, as it it's synonymous with 'fake' but it's really a value-neutral term that is used to describe stuff that doesn't exist outside the context of human society. Every single social construction was invented at a certain stage of social evolution for a reason, it solved some kind of problem and served some kind of purpose for the particular subset of people at a particular time who invented and shaped it. But the main purpose of identifying various social phenomena as socially constructed is to help think of society as something evolving and malleable, as something that is made up of various elements that can be either kept the same, reformed or retired entirely in some cases. In other words, every social construct serves a purpose but it doesn't mean it serves it prefectly and without creating more problems in the process.

TL;DR genders and mental disorders - malleable socially constructed categories. Human sexual dimorphism and individual experiences of mentally ill people - measurable and real.

[feralphoenix]

SWEET DREAMS ARE MADE OF THIS: The Mechanics of the Infection

welcome back to feral’s essay tag where the hot takes don’t stop from keep being hot!

this particular meta has a Lot of citations from canon, and my plan is to have them as actual footnotes in the dreamwidth mirror when that goes up (as i always crosspost my meta there in case my layout text is too small for any folks accessing these from computer and not mobile).

CONTENT WARNING FOR TONIGHT’S PROGRAM: This essay contains discussion of body horror, cancer, and many of the darker aspects of Hallownest’s society.

ALSO, AS USUAL: I read Hollow Knight as anti-colonialist fiction and all of my meta approaches the text from that angle. This essay is strongly critical of the Pale King and Hallownest, and affords sympathy to pre-Hallownest societies & native characters, including Radiance. If you come from a Christian cultural background (regardless of whether you currently practice the religion or not), some of the concepts I am going to discuss may be challenging for you. Please be responsible in your choice whether to engage with this content, and also, be respectful here or wherever else you’re discussing this essay. Thanks.

SWEET DREAMS ARE MADE OF THIS: The Mechanics of the Infection

If you’ve ever looked through my Hollow Knight tags, you have probably seen me joke about the Infection like a lot, usually along the lines of Radiance casting Level 9 Inflict Tang on Hallownest, or “(radi voice) the End of EVA will continue until you Let My People Go” or some such. In addition to being some of the most beautiful body horror I’ve yet seen in fiction, its appearance also makes it a veritable meme factory.

It is also something that inspires a lot of very wild theorizing amongst fans, because canon tells us WHY the Infection exists but doesn’t ever directly explain WHAT it is. To name just a few of the guesses I’ve seen, people have posited that it could be some sort of pupa juice, or maybe some type of parasitic fungus.

I have my own guess, though, and it’s based on hints we can find in-game. I would like to share it with the class today, so let’s take a quick look through the sauce, starting with what we already know!

WHY

We learn why the Infection happened from Seer and Moss Prophet, and this is also summed up more directly in Team Cherry’s dev notes attached to Seer.

The Pale King wanted to be the only god of light in the crater,* so he tried to kill Radiance by thralling her children - attracting the moths with his light and making them forget about her,** assimilating them into Hallownest. Radiance survived because some moths still remembered and tried to preserve what they could of their original culture,*** and eventually she attempted to reassert her existence and communicate with the bugs of the crater by speaking to them through their dreams. However, the Pale King realized what was happening and ordered his worshippers to shut her out.****

Radiance did not give up, and continued to broadcast her message through dreams. This unstoppable force VS immovable object conflict could not last forever - something eventually had to give, and what gave was the mortals.***** The Infection was an accident that Radiance did not initially intend, but presumably chose to weaponize after the fact as a way to attempt to pressure TPK into releasing the moths and leaving her alone (or, barring that, a way to thoroughly destroy his kingdom at the very least).

SOURCES:

* “No blazing kin. Only one light shall shine against the dark.” - Lore tablet hidden beside the Pale King’s throne in the White Palace.

** “None of us can live forever, and so we ask those who survive to remember us. Hold something in your mind and it lives on with you, but forget it and you seal it away forever. That is the only death that matters.” - Seer’s 1200 Essence dialogue.

*** “But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith... Until all of Hallownest began to dream of that forgotten light.” - Seer’s 2400 Essence dialogue.

**** “The King and the bugs of hallownest resisted this memory/power and it started to manifest as the infection.” - from Team Cherry’s dev notes attached to Seer.

***** “Light is life, beaming, pure, brilliant. To stifle that light is to suppress nature. Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us.” - Moss Prophet's dialogue.

HOW

Now that we’ve recapped why the Infection exists, let’s examine the process of how the Infection works. We see some examples of this with various characters in-game, and the Hunter also shares his observations of the Infection’s mechanics in his commentary on the Infected Crossroads entries.

Since we’ll be bringing up the Hunter's Journal here, I want to first examine three entries to establish its dual authorship and how trustworthy it is: The Shade’s entry, the Lightseed’s, and Radiance’s.

We know that the bottom section of the Hunter’s Journal is the Hunter’s personal notes on each creature because the game itself tells us so. So who writes the notes on top that give a brief explanation of what each creature is? It’s a common fan theory that Ghost writes these, which I believe is indeed the case.

First let’s look at the Shade, which is automatically unlocked when we receive the Hunter's Journal in-game regardless of whether we have died and fought the Shade or not. Mechanically this is important because if the Shade weren’t unlocked by default it would be impossible to attain the Hunter achievements without dying at least once - this would REALLY suck for anybody who likes to suffer enough to try to complete the journal in Steel Soul mode.

The Shade’s entry reads:

Echo of a previous life. Defeat it to retake its power and become whole.

-

Each of us leaves an imprint of something when we die. A stain on the world. I don’t know how much longer this kingdom can bear the weight of so many past lives...

Notice that the top text knows exactly what the Shade is and how it works. In story terms, this would imply that Ghost has died and come back enough pre-game to understand the mechanics of how their revivals work.

The Lightseed’s entry reads:

A single-celled organism, completely infected. Scurries about simple-mindedly.

-

Strange air has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life. I don’t know what to make of it.

In this entry, the top text assumes that Lightseeds are a Lifeseed-like creature that has been infected, and the Hunter’s notes reveal that this is incorrect and the Lightseeds were actually born from the Infection itself. From this we learn that the top text isn’t omniscient and can be mistaken: It’s written from a limited perspective.

And here’s Radi’s entry:

The light,* forgotten.

-

The plague, the infection, the madness that haunts the corpses of Hallownest... the light that screams out from the eyes of this dead Kingdom. What is the source? I suppose mere mortals like myself will never understand.

Here, the top text has information that the Hunter doesn’t, and which only a handful of bugs are privy to anymore.

From these three examples, I believe it is safe to say that Ghost is in fact the author of the journal entries’ top segments.

It’s important to remember that the observations these characters make can be not wholly correct, and I’ll bring that up when I believe it to be relevant, but for now let’s build a picture of how a case of the Infection generally progresses by looking at the Hunter’s commentary on Infected Crossroads enemies, and at a handful of characters whose Infection we directly observe: Bretta, Sly, Myla, and Moss Prophet.

The Hunter describes the broad arc of Infection progression in the Violent Husk's entry: “First [the bugs of Hallownest] fell into deep slumber, then they awoke with broken minds, and then their bodies started to deform...”

The two NPCs who we can save from becoming Infected, Bretta and Sly, are initially found emitting orange fog and mumbling to themselves. In Bretta’s case, when listened to, she initially talks about being left behind and forgotten** as she assumes that all people will treat her this way even though she craves affection and attention; Dream Nailed either before or after being listened to, she mentions a “shining figure”.***

Meanwhile, Sly speaks about his pupil Oro and someone named Esmy, and when his symptoms subside he identifies that he was led to the Crossroads village ruins by a dream.****

Listening to Bretta and Sly completely brings them back to reality, after which they leave the underground area entirely to return to Dirtmouth. However, when the player encounters Myla after defeating Soul Master and obtaining Descending Dive, listening to her does not cause any change in her condition despite that she is not yet hostile.

During these encounters, Bretta is surrounded by orange fog, Sly is surrounded by orange fog and his eyes have also begun to turn orange, and Myla's eyes are glowing but there is no fog around her. So, we can deduce that for as long as the orange fog is present, a bug may still be awoken and cured (Bretta and Sly both show no signs of relapse over the course of the game), but once the fog disappears the bug can no longer be saved by external means.

The "deformation" that the Hunter mentions in the Violent Husk entry refers to the large blobs of Infection that develop on the bodies of creatures that have been infected for a long period of time. We observe these upon the Infected Crossroads enemies, as well as on Hollow and the Moss Prophet. We also see that these Infection tumors can eventually kill bugs once they grow too large and impede bodily functions, just like real cancer: The Moss Prophet and Mossy Vagabonds are all discovered in this state after the Crossroads become infected, as are the Husk Guards in the Crossroads.

So, the progression we can see here is that bugs become infected through their dreams, and while they can initially be woken, if left alone they will fall into too deep a sleep to wake up. Some time after this they will start to move around again but will be hostile to any creatures that are not infected. And, if left in this state for a very long period of time, they will develop tumorous growths which are potentially fatal.

Potentially fatal. This is an interesting contradiction to a basic assumption that most players - and even Ghost and the Hunter - seem to hold about the Infection: That is, that the Infection functions like a pop-culture zombie plague, and infected creatures are all undead (reanimated dead things that can't be killed); thus that the enemies that respawn after resting or going offscreen are the same ones that Ghost just murdered, and have simply been reanimated by the Infection once again.

But infected creatures can die of the Infection. What’s more, bosses and unique instances of generic enemies (such as Myla and the Moss Knight at the pier of Unn’s lake) do not respawn once killed. And it’s definitely not that Ghost killed them that counts: Traitor Lord dies whether Ghost fights him solo or whether Cloth is brought along, in which case she always gets the final blow. This creates the argument that the respawning generics are NOT in fact the same individuals reanimated over and over, but different individuals of the same enemy class, and that their different respawn rates speak to how plentiful those creatures are - small animals respawning faster because a new one will arrive in the recently killed one’s territory sooner, for instance.

Ghost and the Hunter both seem to assume that infected enemies are all undead - many creatures are identified as “husks” or “the remains of [whatever specific bug]” in the Hunter's Journal. But we’ve already established that sometimes Ghost and the Hunter are wrong.

So, if infected creatures aren’t undead, then what are they?

SOURCES:

* I find it a very interesting tidbit of characterization for Ghost that they refer to Radiance as the Light, as native bugs do, rather than calling her the Old Light, as Hallownest bugs did. This has some fascinating implications for where Ghost feels their allegiances to be, but that's neither here nor there right now lol.

** “Ohhh... please... don’t leave me behind! You... forgot about me...? I knew you would... everyone always forgets about me...” - Bretta’s dialogue, Fungal Wastes encounter

*** “...Shining figure...So bright...” - Bretta’s Dream Nail dialogue, Fungal Wastes encounter

**** “...ugghh, Oro you oaf.... You wield your nail... like a club... ...Esmy... how much deeper do we have to go... Oh! What?! Who are you?! ...I see. This old village. What a strange dream, to have led me down here! If you hadn’t found me, I don’t think I would’ve ever woken.” - Sly’s dialogue, Crossroads village encounter

WHAT

In a move very on-brand for Hollow Knight, there’s actually a line from Seer that gives the whole game away - and I mean this incredibly literally, she declares her loyalty to Radiance and says Fuck Hallownest and also hints at what she hopes for from Ghost all in two breaths!! - except that most players are never going to see this line because Seer only says this if you screw up platforming in the Forgotten Dream and yeet yourself off a platform before picking up the Dream Nail.

I do not doubt that I could wring a whole essay out of this one line by itself (and Seer deserves an essay from me so maybe I will), but today the part we’re concerned with is the third line of this dialogue, i.e. how she describes the Dream Nail to Ghost: “The power to wake this world from its slumber[.]”

Its slumber.

The Infection doesn’t only spread through dreams. It is a dream.

To put it in a more meta/video game mechanics sort of way, the Infection is a status ailment. Sleep exists as a common status ailment in RPGs, strategy games, and even some adventure games and platformers. Usually the status ailment of sleep is a mild nuisance that wears off after time, when a character is struck, or if the requisite curative is used; in comparison the Infection is Sleep But Bass Boosted. Appropriate, for a glorified status ailment that’s inflicted by the literal actual god of dreams.

The Infection can only be cured in the very early stages. Once an infected creature has fallen into a coma, there’s no longer any hope of a third party breaking the curse... and also, infected creatures sleepwalk. Violently.

This may also provide an explanation for why mummified bugs in the catacombs have been infected, too: If they were freshly dead and their lingering spirit was still attached enough to their corpses, and that lingering spirit retained enough of a mind to dream...

Aside from those mummified bugs, though, I believe it likely that most if not all of the infected enemies in-game are very, very much alive.

Beyond all the dialogue and lore crumbs pointing to the Infection simply being a cursed sleep, this explanation makes the most sense when thinking about Radiance as a character. She is the literal embodiment of dreams as well as the sun, so inflicting eternal slumber with bonus malignant sleepwalking is a natural extension of her power and a way to use it offensively without being directly violent.

(I've written about this at length elsewhere, but signs point to Radiance having been a pacifist prior to the Pale King’s invasion. Short version: The Moth Tribe were pacifists and Radiance was the center of their culture so it would be odd if she were an exception; she is incapable of inflicting any physical harm whatsoever in a game where lack of contact damage from an active enemy indicates helplessness and such enemies always flee from Ghost unless they have a tool they can use to fight with; her behavior in her boss battles indicates a lack of combat experience, and her nail-generating spells seem to be based on Hollow’s abilities. Real-life adult moths cannot fight - they defend themselves with flight, camouflage, mimicry, and I’m Poisonous So Fuck Off coloring.)

Now, I don’t want to downplay the harm the Infection causes - it doesn’t have to turn bugs into literal undead zombies to be devastating. What we can glean of Hallownest’s ruins suggests that as a state it was heavily dependent on labor to run its industry, so incapacitating the laborers would have turned the whole country on its head, especially because those laborers cannot be woken. The Infection also created an intense atmosphere of terror throughout Hallownest as bugs tried to discover ways to cure it or at least protect themselves. And as the Hunter observes,* because of how the Infection is caused, the harder you try to block Radiance out, the worse the Infection will get.

(A sidebar: Interestingly, the Infection's progress seems to be very slow when a creature willingly accepts it; Moss Prophet has Infection tumors when met but doesn’t die of them until the Crossroads is infected, though many Crossroads bugs are found dead of tumors immediately. Traitor Lord and his followers opted in to the Infection long ago, but Traitor Lord is still at the “orange fog” stage and could theoretically be cured, if he wanted to be. Both Traitor Lord and Moss Prophet are still completely lucid, too.)

Radiance may not have committed any direct violence against Hallownest, but the Infection does incite violence: infected creatures become hostile to and will attack the uninfected. And as we’ve discussed, the Infection itself can become fatal once it’s progressed far enough for tumorous growths to form.

A god smiting the shit out of her people’s oppressors by nonviolently but thoroughly disrupting their kingdom, Especially if that kingdom is a genocidal colonialist slave state,** as a Let My People Go And Leave Me Alone :) ultimatum is not unreasonable. (And Moss Prophet tells us point-blank that literally just listening to Radiance in the first place would have prevented the Infection before it began!) But despite that Hallownest as an institution is unambiguously awful, Hallownest bugs victimized by their own state (such as the maggot slaves and other menial workers) probably saw much less benefit from Hallownest’s genocides than the rich and nobility, and likely deserved the smiting way less than said rich and nobility.

Meanwhile Hallownest’s neighbors - all native nations who are just as much victims of TPK’s bullshit as the Moth Tribe - did not deserve to get caught up in the smiting at all.

Lateral harm in Hollow Knight is another topic that deserves its own essay - and more than that, lots of in-depth conversation! - but, again, that’s not the topic we want to focus on today. I do want to make it clear, though, that infected creatures being alive and theoretically wakeable if the curse should end doesn’t suddenly mean the Infection was actually no big deal. If you want your jimmies rustled, try Dream Nailing enemies that pull from the generic Dream Nail dialogue pool: They are on some level aware that they’re dreaming and can’t wake.***

Clues that the Infection is literally a dream are littered all over the game, from Elderbug’s initial dialogue**** to the name of ending 3, Dream No More - not only named that because that’s the ending where Ghost sacrifices Radiance’s life as well as their own to end Hollow’s suffering rather than only sacrificing their freedom.

Some of what Bardoon and Moss Prophet have to say about the Infection is suggestive of the nature of this dream, though. Moss Prophet appeals to their audience to find unity through the Infection,***** and Bardoon also remarks on this, though he cautions that this comes at the cost of being reduced to instinct.****** Dreaming does tend to come hand in hand with lack of inhibition and suggestibility, but I’m more interested in what Moss Prophet and Bardoon mean by unity, since infected creatures’ thoughts are different depending on what they are and what they were already doing while awake.

There's less specific hard evidence for this aside from how we can observe that Infection blobs are connected to Radiance, transmitting her heartbeat and birthing the Lightseeds, her unintended creations. But given that those blobs do originate from Infection fluid according to the Hunter... Radiance is not just the embodiment of dreams but the heart of THE Dream. So could the Infection be a forcible pseudo-immersion into that capital-D Dream, the Dream Realm itself?

Whether my hunch here is right or not, I can’t in good faith end this essay without bringing all y’all’s attention to absolutely my favorite bit of The Infection Is A Dream foreshadowing: The way multiple parties mention the fact that the Infection smells and tastes sweet.*******

You know... it’s sweet... it’s a sweet dream... get it.........

And now that you can no longer unsee that brilliantly awful pun, I think I'll see myself out!

SOURCES:

* “The infection that swept through Hallownest so long ago... they say that the harder you struggled against it, the more it consumed you.” - Hunter’s commentary, Slobbering Husk Hunter’s Journal entry.

** I’m referring, of course, to the maggots. See: “Weakest members of the kingdom of Hallownest. Generally looked down upon and forced to do menial labour.” (Ghost’s commentary) and “If they try to bargain for their life, just ignore them. They have nothing to offer.” (Hunter’s commentary) from the Maggot Hunter's Journal entry as well as False Knight/Failed Champion’s backstory. Remember also that maggots are the larval form of flies like Sly (you’ll see the resemblance if you compare Sly’s features to the maggot siblings’), meaning Hallownest employs child slavery. In more cheerful news Sly’s backstory must be absolutely goddamn wild.

*** “I’m not...Dead..” “Am I...Sleeping?” “I can’t....Wake up...” - Dream Nail dialogue from generic Hallownest bugs (Wandering Husk, Leaping Husk, Horned Husk, Husk Bully, Husk Warrior) and from God Tamer for some reason

**** “Perhaps dreams aren't such great things after all...” - Elderbug’s initial dialogue

***** “Embrace light! Achieve union!” - Moss Prophet’s dialogue

****** “Theirs is a different kind of unity. Rejection of the Wyrm’s attempt at order. I resist the light’s allure. Union it may offer, but also a mind bereft of thought... To instinct alone a bug is reduced...Hrrm...” - Bardoon’s dialogue (Listen four times, not counting other dialogue flags)

******* “A thick orange mist fills these walking corpses. It has a sweet, sickly taste to it. I find it foul. After you kill these creatures, I suggest you do not eat them.” - Hunter’s commentary, Husk Bully Hunter’s Journal entry, just for one example.

[t0bey]

plum drop the essay on fuyu/peko and mondo/taka paralelles !!!! i am curious

ask and u shall recieve (inserting my first ever page break because holy FUCK this got long) 

oke! I guess I’ll start off with Peko’s initial conception as a character, which was the main initial comparison danganronpa intended between Peko and Kiyotaka.

I’ve noticed danganronpa has a tendency to re-use character tropes or roles after each game, tho their fates end up differently. For example, Chihiro was the smart, cute, and sweet character who ended up dying early on and had little significance outside of alter ego afterwards. Chiaki is the same, except if Danganronpa took Chihiro’s character and made her one of the main protagonists that has much more significance in the game. 

The staff of SDR2 confirmed that they based Peko off of Kiyotaka, from their intense red eyes (which was intentional) + predominately b&w colorscheme, they both have swords, and their characters are tied to justice, though in different ways. Not to mention both are meant to be extremely disciplined, but ultimately struggle at socializing due to their rough backstories. But that’s where Peko’s ties to Taka as an initial concept end there, because the parallels between Peko/Taka and Fuyuhiko/Mondo are a whole ‘nother ballpark.

Before bringing that up though, we should note that while their designs are significantly different, Mondo and Fuyuhiko are extremely similar in terms of their backstory and personality (down to their ability to curse like a sailor). Both struggle with an inferiority complex (Fuyuhiko w/ how he isn’t taken seriously because of his babyface, Mondo w/ how his self esteem is really fragile and gets jealous of others when he acknowledges them to be stronger than him). Both act like tough, aggressive lone-wolfs (well, Mondo pre-sauna anyways), but have been stated to have a soft side, to the point they doubt their capabilities of being a tough leader because of it. They both even have a sibling they both believe would be a better leader than them (Daiya and Natsumi). BASICALLY fuyuhiko and mondo are the same role, being the intimidating gang leader that no one should fuck with, but in actuality has a lot of insecurities behind that facade. 

Ok, ok, time to the ACTUAL relationship parallel analysis. We now know why Peko/Taka are meant to be parallels, and we can definintely make a solid claim for Fuyuhiko and Mondo. This isn’t new for Danganronpa, in their tendency to use patterns but give them a different twist depending on the game. Which is exactly what happened in  regards to chapter 2 of THH and SDR2, respectively.

The games’ chapter 1s are simple: meant to introduce the characters/game/stakes. Leon and Sayaka’s deaths were tragic, but the emotional impact of them wasn’t the main priority by the writers. Only to show that this was, indeed, a Killing Game where anyone’s possible to die. But chapter 2 of danganronpa is intended to be the chapter where you’re introduced to just how emotional and tragic the games can actually be, meant for maximum heartbreak (for both the characters and the player).

Chapter 2 of THH was where the different students’s relationships between each other became more solid. Sakura and Aoi were good friends. Toko’s obsession for Byakuya first solidified. Hifumi being Celeste’s servant, etc. Taka and Mondo’s fast developed friendship is no different. After the sauna, the two clicked so much that they believed calling each other just a friend wasn’t really accurate, and settled on calling each other brother instead. While they don’t have memories of their close friendship during Hope’s Peak at this time, it’s heavily implied that their closeness during that time made them subconsciously gravitate towards each other so fast, which could also be seen with Sakura and Aoi, and how Chihiro was able to find Makoto familiar during their introduction. 

Peko and Fuyuhiko’s relationship could be considered to be just as close. The two grew up together, quite literally since they were kids. Like Taka and Mondo’s relationship pre-sauna, Fuyuhiko and Peko’s relationship was somewhat strained, though it’s more deeply rooted than two extremely contrasting guys clashing over their perceptions of each other. Fuyuhiko is extremely insecure in his place as the Kuzuruyuu clan’s head, and sees Peko’s desire to protect him and carry out his commands as an unwanted crutch that challenges his desire to be independent, as well as extremely worrying considering how because of this, Peko devalues her own life and worth as a person. Fuyuhiko very much loves Peko as a person, and as such tried to distance himself from her during their time on Jabberwock Island. Though unfortunately, Peko took this as him loathing her in general, further cementing her desire to be his “tool” because if he couldn’t stand being around her, she might as well make herself useful to him.  

Now. Finally to get into the explicit parallels between the relationships of Kiyotaka/Mondo, and Peko/Fuyuhiko. Peko and Taka’s perspective on their relationships is a great starting point. 

Each game’s chapter 2 shows just how willing both Taka and Peko are willing to go in order to protect Mondo and Fuyuhiko. Peko’s motive for killing Mahiru wasn’t to escape, but to in her eyes save Fuyuhiko from the Killing Game, by using herself as his tool to carry out muder, and have everyone incorrectly vote for her so Fuyuhiko could get away. She was his bodyguard in the truest sense of the word. Now in THH’s chapter 2, instead of fighting against Mondo in proving his guilt, you’re fighting Kiyotaka. He refuses any evidence you throw at him, arguing relentlessly to prove Mondo’s innocence, to the point the only reason he stopped was because Mondo told him to. And you later find out, in chapter 3, that Kiyotaka felt so determined to prove Mondo’s innocence was because he felt like it was his responsibility to, as he cared for Mondo so much. 

So, in a way, Taka considers himself Mondo’s bodyguard. Just without the years worth of reinforcement that you’re nothing but a tool to be used which makes you devalue your own worth as a person. (Not that his self esteem and willpower wasn’t ultimately crushed by Mondo’s execution, but that’s only because the circumstances he lost him was undenyingly brutal considering the Killing Game). While the circumstances of Peko’s desire to protect Fuyuhiko are really murky and problematic considering how she was raised, Danganronpa confirmed that she protected him so much because of her care for him, to the point she was willing to sacrifice her own life to assure that Fuyuhiko is safe. And Kiyotaka was willing to go to the exact same drastic measures, by voting for himself. 

It’s also worth noting that in the stage play, he willingly accepted to be punished alongside him by doing this to make sure Mondo doesn’t die alone. 

So from my own understanding, Super Danganronpa 2 took the tragedy of Mondo and Taka’s relationship, and flipped it so that while it still follows its signature use of repetitive patterns, they made the circumstances different, but just as heartbreaking. And how? Because they took the Taka of the relationship, and made Peko the culprit. It’s not the Mondo this time, which is who you’re supposed to expect to be the culprit, because of your expectation from THH’s trial 2. 

Peko tried her best to protect Fuyuhiko, much like Kiyotaka tried to after he recognized the fact Mondo was the blackened. Both were, at the expense of their classmate’s and their own lives, were willing to protect them both, no matter what. Peko took a more active role in trying to do this however, which is what Kiyotaka severely regretted not doing, as stated in chapter 3. 

And Fuyuhiko is what would have happened if Mondo was forced to face the consequences of his actions (in Fuyu’s case, being partially responsible for Mahiru’s death, in Mondo’s case, Chihiro’s). Instead of Taka arguing to prove Mondo’s innocence, it’s Fuyuhiko who’s doing that for Peko. A deliberate use of subverting the pattern given to us by THH’s chapter 2.  

That’s the main takeaway, but I suppose I should also address the romantic parallels while I’m at it. I personally don’t like Kuzupeko as a romantic relationship, mainly because of how Peko’s self worth and personal value of herself as a person was as a direct result from being considered Fuyuhiko’s “tool” and their professional relationship as yakuza leader/henchman. Fuyuhiko does love her as a person, but that doesn’t negate the years of psychological degradation Peko endured to consider herself as a tool. Though in typical Danganronpa fashion, they choose to gloss over the problematic aspects of their relationship while heavily implying romantic subtext between them. So while I can’t say I’m a fan, I know the game/DR3 anime says otherwise. 

And as for Ishimondo, I know some will disagree with me, but I definitely feel that their relationship is heavily lined with romantic subtext as well. Not much is really explicit in the game outside of Ishida and Hifumi’s romantic rivalry for alter ego (who Taka considers Mondo), but the mangas and posters definitely show their relationship that most would consider normal for couples.

But at the end of the day? Both Peko and Taka love Fuyuhiko and Mondo, whether or not you consider both, one, or none of their relationship to be romantic. They wouldn’t have put their own lives on the line if it was anything else. And it’s that emotional connection between Kiyotaka and Mondo, and Peko and Fuyuhiko that’s meant to give you an emotional punch in the gut for THH and SDR2’S chapter 2’s, because of how far the two were willing to protect them.

[im-still-watching-anime]

warning: this post is just me ranting about the writing of the naruto women for far too long

i honestly feel that one of the most frustrating/vaguely hilarious aspects of naruto is how naruto ended up being - and bear with me here - the best example of the extremely specific female archtype that kishimoto seemed to be obsessed with. 

like when you focus on sakura and hinata - arguably the most important female characters in the show as the two male leads’ respective end game love interests - you can break them both down into the same general mold:

- both devoted to the same boy their entire lives

- both are shown chasing after their crush in order to stand on “equal” footing (i.e. sakura’s “i finally caught up to them” and hinata’s “no longer chasing but standing by your side” mentalities)

- both suffer and try to overcome feelings of inferiority in their respective character arcs

and i want to be clear that while female characters who fit this mold aren’t usually my favorite thing it can definitely still work when written carefully and written well -  to be blunt i personally think both hinata and sakura are awesome character concepts and both had SO MUCH potential and i love their fanon interpretations but i feel that canonically they were poorly written, underdeveloped, and flat characters

most of their canonical character motivations revolve around their love interests - which really sucks because i would have KILLED for a deeper look at everything involving hinata and the hyuuga or even more about sakura’s development of her medical ninjustsu so much got skipped when it came to them which definitely didn’t help anything - that aside this is especially true in og naruto though to be fair - sasuke was still in konoha in og naruto and team seven was together for most episodes which made it especially prevalent in sakura’s case

the point is by the time shippuden came around it was extremely obvious that efforts were being made to improve the female characters - sakura now had much higher combat ability from the start of shippuden and, though she gets much less focus hinata is repeatedly shown doing brave acts and pushing herself to become stronger. and while i really loved the effort and it was definitely an improvement from especially sakura’s original character - it still fell flat to me.

sakura’s fight with sasori was perfect and a great way to revive her character but then she was pretty stagnant in a lot of the following arcs - i.e. injured in the reunion arc, not very important during the two saviors arc, her weird fake love confession during the assembly of the five kage arc, etc. - she constantly bounces between “now i’m strong” and “i still don’t measure up” making her character development - especially pre-war - virtually nonexistent because every step forward gets followed by a step back.

hinata is a bit more difficult simply because she’s such a minor character for so much of shippuden which is insane since she’s literally the protagonist’s future wife. regardless, looking at hinata’s big moments: her fight with neji in og naruto, blocking naruto from pain in shippuden, and the Smack during the war (there’s a few i’m missing i’m sure but those are really what constitutes her biggest moments to me during the meat of shippuden’s actual development phase - not the post war resolution phase) two of three of these moments precede her getting very heavily and soundly beaten which personally irks me - even if i don’t particularly like it i can see why and it makes sense to me she didn’t win the fight with neji or her pain confrontation and it definitely shows that she is brave and emphasizes the all-important devotion to her love interest aspect of her character BUT it’s also a little obnoxious that we never get to see her be REALLY victorious in her major moments.

so to sum up so far: sakura and hinata are both meant to be perceived as innovative and strong female characters but this perception doesn’t work in sakura’s case because she immediately repeatedly reverts back to the damsel in distress archtype and it doesn’t work in hinata’s case because the few strong moments she has are highlighted by failure.

and also the all important point that the majority of their “strong moments” are driven by their love interests - not a bad motivation except for the fact that that is one of their ONLY motivations

to the main point i’m trying to make: lets compare naruto (obviously take this with the understanding that naruto has a MAJOR advantage of having way more screen time and development as the titular character)

in regards to sasuke, naruto:

- is extremely devoted

- repeatedly chases after sasuke to match-up with him and improve

- and, especially in og, struggles with feeling inferior to sasuke

the context is a little different and the motivation behind some of the points changes between the two but it’s the exact same mold as sakura and hinata

the major difference between the two and the main reason that so many more people get frustrated with sakura’s devotion to sasuke and not naruto’s really boils down to development

sakura barely had her own character outside of loving sasuke and when she did, it immediately got downplayed in some way - just look at the war arc and her triumphant “i finally caught up to them” right before both sasuke and naruto essentially gain godlike powers, she then spends the war constantly distracted by sasuke even when fighting “sasuke isn’t worried about me at all” which really downplays her role.

on the flip side, even with his main goal of bringing sasuke back to the village, naruto has tons of motivation and character building outside of sasuke - ex. becoming hokage, gaining everyone’s acceptance, fixing konoha, living up to his parents/jiraiya’s expectations, bringing peace, protecting everyone he can, freeing the tailed beasts, etc. etc. you could go on forever the show is named after him after all.

we are told that sakura always chooses sasuke and nothing else about it but then we are told that naruto chooses sasuke despite everything else.

to sum up: the traditional female love interest that kishimoto wants to invent is the woman who is devoted. she puts the person she loves above everything else because she loves him. she’d do anything for that person even if it puts her at risk, etc. but at the end of the day there’s still the tired trait of still relying on the man in her life for certain things. and he doesn’t bother to expand characters like sakura and hinata beyond that. (great examples of characters who are almost completely separate from this mold are tsunade and temari - though one might argue about the way they were written designed to fit specific tropes for comedic moments - personally i think they manage to dodge that for the most part though)

with naruto and sasuke - naruto manages to fulfill every roll sakura is meant to in a much more elaborated and better way all without the curse of the female love interest that sakura and hinata bear. it’s hard to accept sakura and hinata’s “i’ll love you no matter what” when naruto is already actively outright doing that with sasuke. the roots of sakura’s feelings for sasuke, hinata’s feelings for naruto, and naruto’s feelings for sasuke are all exceptionally similar to one another which is what shoots kishimoto’s main romances in the foot - because it’s hard for them to measure up to the main “platonic brotherly” relationship he built between sasuke and naruto.

this post is obviously disregarding a lot of the Other really deep parts of sasuke and naruto’s relationship and some important points about the other women of naruto. also it’s important to think on the time period naruto and naruto shippuden were written in. we’re in a major incline period for improvement in how women are presented in fiction - just look at the difference of women between og and shippuden. obviously it doesn’t completely excuse anything but it’s a point to consider.

sorry for the rant and sorry if this is all really obvious to you or if it’s worded poorly, kinda just needed to word vomit my thoughts. i really like analyzing how women are represented in fiction and how the representations have developed over the years. i wrote a few essays about it for some of my courses and now i think about it all the time. obviously i’m not claiming this is how everyone should view these characters or anything i just had lots of my own thoughts about the entire situation and dynamics that i had to put SOMEWHERE. if you have any thoughts about it or points you wanna bring up feel free to do so i love fiction analysis a lot so i love hearing other people’s opinions

[mc-critical]

Hi darling, Idk if you talked about this before, but what do you think about Rumeysa (Mustafa's concubine)? Do you think they planned to make her Mustafa's wife untill the actress was changed? And also, if she would've become his wife, how do you think she'd act in comparison to how Mihrunnisa (queen) acted? We didn't really see a lot of her but I wanted to know what do you believe they wanted to do with her character

Hey, dear! 🤗 No, I haven't talked about Rumeysa in here. I'll cover the S03 one and the S04 one separately, because in practice, they're both very different characters.

I strongly dislike S03 Rumeysa as a character, to be brutally honest. She goes all good, nice and innocent, when secretly she's sneaky and even manipulative in order to fulfill her goals. The thing that annoys me the most is not necessarily her fixation on Mustafa and how she wants to get him, because after all, it's a harem and everyone wants to get him, but how nearly inexplicable her whole motivation is, in spite and outside of that.

I feel Rumeysa's arc could be split in two almost separate halves - her set-up in the harem (pre-E93) and her as a favorite in the harem. (post-E93). The most interesting things about her were precisely her set-up and backstory. The way she was sent to the harem, the way she was tied to signora Gabriella, the way both of them were about to reunite and when that happened, Rumeysa was just confused more than anything... The idea of sisters finding each other within these harem walls was fascinating, but that was seemingly dropped. I feel even from this point on that the show tried to make a case of a person who's been long in the harem and has lost the touch of a free life to the point of being afraid to leave, but her confusion on the signora and her refusal to go with her was the only part they pulled off. (not to mention they executed that concept much better with Sümbül!) Then begins the second half of her arc that went in another direction the writers didn't succeed to make me get. I didn't get why she wanted Mustafa so much. She said she wanted and appreciated Mustafa a lot and that was why she wanted to leave and this trainwreck began all of a sudden! That doesn't make any sense! She had no (or at least not pivotal) scenes with Mustafa before E93, she neither experienced a desire to get Mustafa, nor was it shown to the audience in any way before the convenient moment. Her build-up was never about Mustafa before then. Her arc was never about Mustafa before then. And yet Mustafa became the center of her character, to the point it's as if they were like: "let's have another woman for Mustafa, but this time with an even more overexaggerated you might think it was Turhan Hürrem-esque arc, so we can make her his full on woman!". She was paving her way through sneaky methods to the point of hypocrisy for no reason, she didn't even have much of a threat, either. Ayşe Hatun put pressure on her once in a while, but it felt understandable when she had a child from Mustafa and that, Rumeysa started acting this confident just like that. I get that in the harem you have to be sorta like that in order to survive, etc., but with Rumeysa that wasn't enough of a motivation! She seemed just fine under Mahidevran and taking care of Nergisşah before then, she could calm people down, what happened? And notice how in the second part of her arc these scenes were lowered to the minimum, or recontextualized, at the very least, so you can't buy anything with her anymore.

But wait, what if she always wanted Mustafa when she arrived? Then every moment of kindness she has shown, even to the little child, becomes even worse in retrospect, because it would either just suit her interest, either become a jarring contrast with what she has shaped up to be. But wait actually, that effect is achieved even without her arc being split in two halves! I would've sympathized with her much more if there was some additional motivation, like everyone else basically, but honestly, the harem excuse is all we could use with her and in her case, that just doesn't suffice, especially for such a big shift in storylines. And then after building up to a halvet, we had the halvet and it was over and left me very unsatisfied. (okay, that's probably because of the actress, but still)

She was screwed up spectacularly at best and downright horrible at worst. Her early concept was way too good to be left out like that and since that leaving out was maybe inevitable for the writers, they had to do this transition better and have the first half of the arc be focused on Rumeysa, as well as Gabriella, instead of making this whole line with her being Gabriella's sister she was searching for more of a plot twist than an organic build-up, because Gabi was the one click baited to want Mustafa! This character ended up being defined by her goal she was trying to fulfill and nothing else, not any redeeming quality whatsoever.

I think Rumeysa was the least suited woman for Mustafa, yes, even less than Fatma. Because if Fatma had some love for him and was genuinely trying to calm him down after Efsun at first, with Rumeysa we simply had steps to get him right from the start and an entire ordeal that wouldn't sit well with Mustafa. We didn't even know not only why she wanted Mustafa, but also what was it she had with Mustafa - was it love, was he just a vessel for her to rise in the hierarchy (that's probably it for me), what was next when he was all hers etc. We have no feelings, no insight here and Mustafa himself was only slightly intrigued at best. And even if she were there for the battle of the throne, she would definetly scheme even more actively than anyone else and that would seriously clash with Mustafa's desires. I don't think she would suit S03B Mustafa's level of maturity, either.

Yes, I would say S03 Rumeysa could very well be the endgame for Mustafa and become his wife if it wasn't for the actress leaving and stuff, because of how she was framed to succeed. This part of Rumeysa's arc existed in a vacuum, it was a tiny victory after a tiny victory due to sly thinking that she was always allowed to get away with somehow. Again, the way she was slowly, but surely getting her way reminded me of all the Hürrem-esque arcs in the series that did end up with these women becoming the total favourites and I wouldn't be surprised at the least if they kept that pattern of success with Rumeysa, since it was very present in her arc.

[While we're at it, I didn't get why Mahidevran believed her so much. On one hand, yes, character development, because, as seen with Mihrünnisa later, as well, Mahidevran no longer gets suspicious of the nature of these women and only intervenes when she sees a decision of Mustafa's regarding them that could potentially be dangerous for his future, coupled with the fact that Mahidevran values loyalty a lot and she has seen nothing but that with Rumeysa. But on the other hand... Mahi is usually so perceptive when it comes to women that could actually be problematic or dangerous for him and Rumeysa being the only exception then was as much character development and the chance of lowering her guard because of the calmer environment as it was.. way too convenient, since we saw Rumeysa was playing a game behind the curtain. Especially the situation when Rumeysa provoked Ayşe Hatun on purpose for Mahi and Musti to see and Mahi not listening to Ayşe or Fidan's warnings about Rumeysa, along with her fully adapting to the harem laws she was previously against and taking on her role as a Valide in Mustafa's harem, was almost like Plot Armor for Rumi similarly to how Hürrem acted accordingly when she saw SS listening to her in the candle mirror in E44, albeit in the opposite way. I view that as a clear recipe for narrative favor and I was appalled that it had to be with such a character.]

If S03 Rumeysa became his wife, I don't see her acting much like Mihrunnisa. First off, due to how her arc was framed, Ayşe Hatun would have very much stayed as an antagonist of hers (even though Rumi wouldn't view her as one in their confrontations) and would try to eliminate her in a secret, subtle and cunning way. While Rumeysa would definetly try her all to keep Mustafa safe and would try to win Mahidevran's support for the marriage the way Mihrunnisa did, Rumi would have more of an agenda of her own she would follow. I won't be surprised if she tried head down on the path to overpower them all in her influence of him, either. Mustafa and Mihrunnisa were partners more than anything, with the same ideals, aspirations and desires. They were very close in their way of thinking and how they would approach problems, that's why they had such a deep bond. S03 Rumeysa would get further and further away from Mustafa's personality as his wife and if the other S04 events are canon, she would probably indeed go and reveal Bayezid's marriage with Huricihan the moment Mustafa refused to and act herself instead.

S04 Rumeysa is barely there, but I like her a bit better. She is an entirely different character with her consistent worries for the future, her more caring and protecting nature and even Mahidevran's more "I'm fed up with all this" attitude to her. Even if we add S03 Rumeysa to the mix, we get at least more feeling out of her and what was she all about and we get some other contrasting facets of hers as a bonus: in contrast to Rumi calming Mahidevran down when Mustafa disobeyed SS's order in E91/2 (my favourite S03 Rumeysa scene, but it was also kinda ruined post-E93), now Mahidevran tells her not to worry so much. Thing is, S04 Rumeysa could very well work without S03 Rumeysa both because of the different actress and the different characterization that could only loosely recontextualize S03 Rumeysa at best, and since there was a time skip, some random concubine and favourite Mustafa slept with and she became pregnant wouldn't be out of the question at all. Yes, her death would probably have less impact that way, but nor could I ever bother with S03 Rumeysa, nor would it be weird because of her different dynamics, which made her look almost foreign in comparison. (that's not on the actress, both Rumeysas were great!) And it would be as impactful as it would've been for Mustafa and Mahidevran, because the loss of the child would be just as devastating for him and was still tied to the mirror of sin.

If S04 Rumeysa didn't die and became Mustafa's wife, I think their bond would be focused more on their future child than anything. Rumeysa would probably act similarly to S03 Ayşe Hatun, only in a more secure position, I see a lot of similarities there. I don't think their bond would be as deep, but they could have the chance to get close for a little bit. I see Rumeysa refraining from acting so much, because of her worrying for the consequences, but when that fear gets the best of her, she could take desperate measures.

[firelxdykatara]

um not to start anything “zuko had everything handed to him by the end of the show even though it took him until nearly the very end to realize he’s wrong: a country, a crown, his girlfriend that HE left behind, the love of his uncle that zuko spent most of the show yelling at and being a dick to, and that’s why he just doesn’t deserve ANYWAY I’M JOKING but this is how y’all be talking about aang” who even talks about aang this why????

It sounds to me like some Aang stans grossly misunderstand criticisms surrounding the writing of Aang’s arc in book 3, in particular during the finale.

This is actually a pattern I’ve noticed with distressing frequency, particularly of late: any criticism of Aang at all--of his actions, the narrative scaffolding surrounding them (never having to apologize for kissing Katara without her consent, for example), or of the failings in the way his narrative was handled (in book 3 especially)--is written off as hate and derided by stans who I can only assume believe that the writing of his character arc was perfect and he never did anything wrong that deserves fair criticism ever in his life.

To this, I can only state my firm disagreement.

The thing is, they don’t really have any counter arguments to refute the points that actually get made (which isn’t to say there aren’t bad faith criticisms of his character just like everyone else, but unlike most of the cast, ppl seem far more inclined to act like there are no valid criticisms of his character or his writing), which is likely why they just write it all off as unfounded hatred of their precious bean fave and ignore it accordingly. But that doesn’t, like, make the issues with his writing, or with book 3 as a whole, go away, and the fact that they refuse to engage with good faith criticism (and, in fact, often refuse to engage with criticism at all by pretending there’s no foundation for any of it--I’ve actually seen people try to justify Aang’s actions in, for example, Bato of the Water Tribe by insisting that Sokka and Katara were actually worse and that Aang lying to them shouldn’t be held against him because they were Mean About It which.... yeah I could go off for days about that alone) says more about their lack of actual engagement with the text of the show than it does about the people who are criticizing his character.

The things that we say were handed to Aang--the deus ex lionturtle (which gave him energybending), the Rock of Destiny (aka the thing that gave him back the Avatar State without having to even attempt to do the work to unblock his chakras again himself), and Katara, presented to him as the prize he’d won at the very end of the show--are things that he did not do the work to actually earn.

Which will probably get some peoples’ backs up, so let me rephrase--the narrative did not put in the work to show how he actually earned these things, preferring to waste time with pointless filler in the front half of the season and then only bring up problems and then solve them within the four episode finale because they left no more room for these very plot critical points earlier in the show. Take Aang’s unwillingness to kill Ozai, for example--this is something that absolutely should have come up far earlier in the season (prior to the invasion at least), and the fact that it didn’t says two things: one, that because the writers knew Aang wasn’t actually going to face Ozai during the eclipse, they didn’t think it mattered to follow through on what Aang planned to do if the invasion had been successful; and two, his sudden clinging to his people’s pacifism seems directly at odds with where the entire narrative of the show had been headed to that point. Why is he suddenly insisting he’s the consummate pacifist when we’ve seen evidence in the show of not only Aang reacting in violence and vengeance (towards the sandbenders, and that wasp he killed), but also evidence that Air Nomads were not the sort of pacifists who would roll over and just let someone commit genocide (the fire nation corpses surrounding Monk Gyatso, clear evidence [which Aang never seems to so much as consider at any point during the series, despite the fact that it could have been a point of much-needed growth and maturation, or at least examining his own people’s beliefs and realizing that, at twelve, he had a flawed and incomplete understanding of his own culture] that even Aang’s mentor was willing to kill in order to protect his home and his people)? Why, if he’s so damn pacifistic, did he never seem to consider with guilt any of the lives he took while in the Avatar state and fused with the Ocean Spirit?

And no, by the way, I’m not saying he’s to blame for the deaths Koizilla caused, but I am saying that it doesn’t make sense that he feels no remorse over all of that blood. Particularly since we see that he considers actions taken while in the Avatar State to be his own--he feels guilty when he goes into the AS and scares his friends, and he very specifically removes himself from the AS to avoid killing Ozai, which tells me that he does consider the AS’ actions to be his own. And if all life is sacred to him to the point where he won’t even eat meat (although Air Nomad vegetarianism makes no sense, but that’s another rant entirely) why doesn’t he so much as mourn for the lives lost during the attack?

These are all questions which the narrative itself never considered, and it’s frustrating because many of them are questions which should have been asked--and answered, or at least attempted--in the course of the final act of Aang’s character arc. He had a great set up going into the third book, with Monk Gyatso’s teachings filling in some of the blanks in Aang’s (again, flawed and incomplete--I challenge anyone to try telling me that if they were completely removed from their culture at age twelve, and it was subsequently wiped completely from the face of the earth, that they’d have anything close to a deep and nuanced understanding of it; twelve-year-olds don’t have a deep and nuanced understanding of anything, nevermind an entire culture and worldview, which is why Aang kept parroting soundbytes from the monks without actually understanding them) understanding of Air Nomad beliefs, but this thread was completely dropped in favor of... I’m still not sure, honestly.

Was Aang running away from his problems and effectively lying to his friends (does he ever actually come clean about being completely unable to access the Avatar State of his own volition?) more important than going back to the Guru, or at least his teachings, and coming to understand his own culture? Where was his arc of regaining the Avatar State because he worked for it, because he tried to re-open his chakras and, for example, came to understand what letting go of his attachment to Katara really means? (That’s actually one of the most frustrating bits, because a) he gets to have his possessive and unhealthy attachment to Katara and get the Avatar State back, despite paying lipservice to letting her go at the end of book 2; and b) he never seems to get what ‘attachment’ the Guru was actually referring to--letting go of Katara doesn’t mean he had to stop caring about or even loving her, but it does mean he was supposed to give up his selfish and possessive attachment to her, which means no nodding when some actor in a play calls fake!Katara ‘the Avatar’s girl’ and no assuming they were supposed to be in a romantic relationship despite never actually asking about her feelings and no kissing her without her consent just because he wanted her to feel the same way about him and didn’t care whether or not she actually did [otherwise he would have asked, and he never once even tried].)

Instead, rather than having a season-long arc of re-navigating his chakras, opening them, and regaining the Avatar State under his own power, he gets thrown against a well-placed rock which does all the work for him at the very last second. Energybending, which wasn’t even thought of as a possibility earlier in the season, rather than being a concept he comes to discover on his own as he navigates his chakras for a second time and comes to understand the how the energy flows between each one, is likewise just given to him by a third party, with no work necessary on his part. And as for Katara, well, I’ve ranted at length about that in the past, but their last one-on-one interaction before the epilogue is when Aang kisses her without her consent, and she gets pissed off about it and storms off. There is nothing to bridge the gap between that and make-out city, nothing at any point indicating Katara’s feelings (because, as far as Kataang was concerned, her feelings never mattered) and how they were changing, no apology from Aang for violating her boundaries, no understanding of what he did wrong and why it was wrong. Nothing. Not a single conversation.

That is why we say that Katara was handed to him like a trophy. Because she was. Kataang was endgame not because it made any sense for Katara, but because Aang was the hero, and he saved the day, and he deserved to get his forever girl on top of it. There was never any real attempt to broach Katara’s feelings on the matter--she’s never shown reflecting on their pre-invasion kiss (in fact, by all appearances she completely forgot it even happened), and she is never once asked what her feelings are, not by Aang or the narrative--because, at the end of the day, they didn’t matter. Aang was getting the girl he wanted, and that was that.

We say that Aang was handed these things without working for them because the entire narrative of book three seemed particularly engineered to making sure he didn’t have to. Zuko, meanwhile, had to work for everything he achieved--the gaang’s trust, Katara’s in particular, his crown and his kingdom. (No, he didn’t particularly work to get Mai back, but that’s a whole other discussion, and he would’ve been much better off if she never showed up again after TBR.) He didn’t get to take any shortcuts. Aang’s arc is all shortcuts, at least in book 3, and that’s when they attempted to show how he got from point a to point b at all.

Anyway, the situations couldn’t possibly be any more different, and idk who said that but whomever it is clearly does not understand where the criticisms about Aang and his hamstringed book 3 arc are coming from.

[esmeraldablazingsky]

I’ve finally hit my limit on the number of bad takes on the Lan parents I can see before I have to lay out all the reasons I disagree, so hello, I’m Blazie, and in this essay I will justify my visceral dislike of the assumption that Qingheng-jun married/imprisoned/had sex with Lan-furen against her will.

    Warning for mentions of rape (in context of Interpretations I Really Hate) and a very, VERY long post below the cut.

    Before I start going off about the finer points of all this, I want to make sure people are on the same page regarding what we actually know about what went down with Qingheng-jun and Lan-furen. What I say is based off the EXR translation of MDZS, for the sake of clarity, and although I don’t think the exact wording should be too important, feel free to let me know if you think I’ve missed an important bit of nuance or something (the whole story is in Chapter 64.)

    The story we get is told by Lan Xichen, and it goes like this: a young Qingheng-jun falls in love at first sight with Lan-furen, who doesn’t return his feelings, and at some point kills one of Qingheng-jun’s teachers over unspecified “grievances.” Although he’s understandably very upset over the murder, Qingheng-jun sneaks Lan-furen back to Cloud Recesses and officially marries her in order to announce to his clan that anyone who wants to hurt her has to go through him.

After that, he locks Lan-furen in one house and himself in another as a form of repentance. Wei Wuxian speculates that this was because “he could neither forgive the one who killed his teacher nor watch the death of the woman who he loved. He could only marry her to protect her life and force himself not to see her.” 

    A central detail of this story that I think people don’t give the import it deserves is that aside from marrying and protecting her, Qingheng-jun’s other option was to let Lan-furen be executed by his clan. His purpose in marrying her wasn’t just for kicks/out of a possessive sort of love, it was so she wouldn’t straight up die. How she felt about this arrangement isn’t stated, but I’ll get into that in a bit. In addition to that, Qingheng-jun and Lan-furen live separately, which was apparently purposeful on Qingheng-jun’s part, and runs counter to the interpretation that he intended to take sexual advantage of Lan-furen.

Though there aren’t many concrete details in Lan Xichen’s retelling, he does specifically inform Wei Wuxian that his mother never complained about remaining in her house. What exactly this signifies is unclear— whether she was simply putting on a brave face for her sons, or whether she was in fact at all content with the situation— but it at the very least serves to further muddy the waters on how she and Qingheng-jun felt about all this. 

Beyond what Lan Xichen and Wei Wuxian are saying out loud, there’s also quite a bit of subtext in this scene, especially in light of later events and revelations, like Lan Xichen’s confession for Lan Wangji at Guanyin Temple. 

So what is Lan Xichen trying to convey with all this? There’s a lot of memes about this scene, most of which err too far on the side of Himbo Airhead Lan Xichen for my liking, but one that I do find amusing emphasizes how Lan Xichen draws parallels between Wangxian and the story of his parents (Lan Xichen: [flute solo] please use your one brain cell to connect the dots.) If Wei Wuxian hadn’t completely lost his memory of Lan Wangji defending him against his own clan elders, one would assume that Lan Xichen’s story would have had a much better chance of hitting home. 

In hindsight and side by side, the parallels are much clearer— Qingheng-jun, “ignoring the objections from his clan… told everyone in the clan that she would be his wife for the rest of his life, that whoever wanted to harm her would have to pass through him first.” Similarly, according to Lan Xichen in Chapter 99, “for [Wei Wuxian,] not only did WangJi talk back to him, he even met with his sword the cultivators from the GusuLan Sect. He heavily injured all thirty-three of the seniors we asked to come.”

In that context, it makes a lot less sense to interpret Qingheng-jun as an aggressor towards Lan-furen, as in Lan Wangji’s case, the narrative clearly establishes that his actions are to secure Wei Wuxian’s safety. The action of Taking Someone Back To Cloud Recesses is— okay, actually, it’s a little more nuanced than I took into account when I started writing that sentence, so let me go a little deeper into Lan Wangji’s actions and how they relate to his father’s, story-wise. 

My intent is not to dive into the terrifying underworld of novel-versus-drama discourse, but simply put, Novel!Lan Wangji as he is written isn’t exactly the poster child for clear consent. (I’m going to entirely leave off the extra chapters for the sake of everyone’s sanity, so I’m just talking about the main body of the novel here.)

He means well, and I’m sure we can agree that he does actually love and want the best for Wei Wuxian, but his lack of communication on this point means that he accidentally gives Wei Wuxian the impression that he wants to imprison and/or punish him in Cloud Recesses at least twice off the top of my head (pre-timeskip, as we know, and post-timeskip immediately after Dafan Mountain when he actually drags Wei Wuxian back to his room.) 

That all likely has something to do with MXTX’s narrative kinks and regular kinks and all that, and can absolutely be taken with many grains of salt. However, these events establish how easy it is to misinterpret the action of Taking Someone Back To Gusu as an attempt to imprison rather than protect them (much to Lan Wangji’s chagrin.)

Failing to communicate his purpose to Wei Wuxian doesn’t mean that Lan Wangji actually had any intent of hurting or caging him— that was just a misinterpretation on Wei Wuxian’s part, and we, as the audience, find that out in due time— but as written in the novel, it can be really uncomfortable to read. Because of that, many people choose to accept CQL canon regarding Lan Wangji’s more possessive actions or mix characterization from different adaptations, which, to be clear, I completely understand and respect. 

However, Qingheng-jun doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt as often, which I frankly find baffling, because nowhere in the text does it state that Lan-furen objected to being taken back to Cloud Recesses, while even Wei Wuxian clearly objected the first few times. In fact, while we’re on this note, I’ll take it a step farther— I find it baffling that people seem to default to an unsympathetic view of Qingheng-jun, because nowhere in the text does it state that he overruled Lan-furen’s wishes in any way. The text doesn’t clarify a lot of things, actually, and that is part of the point. 

The narrators of MDZS are, in many situations, highly unreliable. This is, presumably, very purposeful! MDZS can easily be read as a sharp criticism of reputation and mass judgment and the concept of condemning people without knowing their motives! And I don’t want to sound mean, but guys… did any of us learn anything from that? Here, I’m going to put it in meme format for a second to convey what I mean. 

MDZS: It’s easy to condemn someone as a villain if you don’t know their story or the reasons behind their actions

MDZS: Anyway, here’s a character whose story and reasons behind his actions you know nothing about

Some Parts Of This Fandom: Ah, a villain 

    Memes aside, here’s what I want to point out. It’s entirely possible to assume Qingheng-jun was a bad person who disregarded a woman’s wishes in marrying and confining her when all you have is Lan Xichen’s (actually very neutral, thank you Lan Xichen for being an eminently reasonable and concerned-with-evidence character) account of what happened. It would also be at least that easy to assume Wei Wuxian was just an evil necromancer if he hadn’t un-died and brought his own story to light, or even to believe that Lan Wangji had somehow tamed Wei Wuxian into submission and being a respectable cultivator if you were an average citizen of Fantasy Ancient China with nothing but rumors to operate on. 

    The thing about Qingheng-jun and Lan-furen’s story, then, is that there is nobody left alive who knows the full tale. Nobody knows what they thought about anything, really. Nobody even knows why Lan-furen killed Qingheng-jun’s teacher. Wei Wuxian asks why, and Lan Xichen can’t tell him, but I think the best answer would be something along the lines of I don’t know, Wei Wuxian, why did you kill people? Your guess on the motivations of your own thinly disguised narrative parallel are as good as anyone’s. 

    So, while it’s not technically impossible to assign darker motives to Qingheng-jun, the cautionary tale of MDZS seems to warn against that exact assumption. 

    I’ve refrained from getting too salty on a personal level thus far, but now that I’ve said a lot of the more logical and story-based points of my argument, I will say that at least some of my annoyance with the interpretation of Qingheng-jun as a possessive rapist and Lan-furen as his victim stems from the fact that I just think it’s straight up boring. Where’s the nuance? Aren’t you tired of reducing these characters to the flattest possible versions of themselves? Don’t you just want to add a little flavor? 

    In a slightly more serious phrasing of that criticism, I find that making Lan-furen a helpless prisoner strips her of whatever agency she might otherwise have. To be fair, she’s more or less a non-character in keeping with the general state of the MDZS universe, but making her a damsel in distress only consigns her more deeply to hapless, milquetoast innocence. 

    It’s perfectly valid to enjoy ladies who have done nothing wrong, ever, in their lives, but like… Qin Su is right there, if that’s your ball game. There’s also really no need to make Qingheng-jun someone who doesn’t respect women. Isn’t Jin Guangshan enough for at least one universe? 

    Anyway, ultimately, you do you. I don’t like arguing on the internet, and will just ignore things I don’t agree with (or write an 1800 word vaguepost) like a mature human being. I’m just saying, if it’s a cut and dry tale of imprisonment and assault you’re looking for… you probably don’t want to turn to a woman who committed a murder and a man who loved her enough to forfeit everything to keep her safe. 

[kitkatopinions]

There is a bit from a SFDebris review (YouTube psychojaneway sometime), that really speaks to the tragedy of Ironwood, or at least how Mettle should’ve been portrayed). I’ll post the monologue (sorry for length).

This is a really interesting way of looking at James’s semblance and I really like it. I want to make a post pretty soon about how I personally think his semblance should’ve worked and how they should’ve applied it, but this is probably my favorite explanation of how it might work in the actual show. Long post full of RWBY crit and Ironwood defense under the keep reading. If you hate criticism or bashing of CRWBY and hate Ironwood, this post isn’t for you.

Funnily enough, I’ve written a RWBY character having a semblance that acted as a defense mechanism that shut down feelings like doubt, grief, loss, stress, so on and so forth. Before season seven came out, I’d written one of the pre-existing characters to have thought for most of his life that his semblance was passive and was good luck, only for it to later be revealed that his passive semblance was actually survival, and it’d been forcing him to do whatever it took to survive, whether that meant rewriting his moral code when circumstances demanded it, making him skate by incredibly dangerous circumstances sometimes without a scratch on him, or making him just survive even getting eaten by a giant Grimm and promptly blown up. Yep, this guy right here.

In application, this semblance pushed Roman from an optimistic would-be-hunter kid not very different from V1 Ruby, into the uncaring and cruel criminal who beats up on kids and laughingly aids in the destruction of Fall of Beacon that we see in the actual show over the course of around twenty years. In my fic, he survived the Grimm attack and later learned from runaway Emerald and Mercury that Salem planned to destroy the world - which then activated his semblance into another change and caused him to join the heroes (with Emerald and Mercury in tow) in order to try and find Neo at the same time he helped stop Salem, which was a long, painstaking process, and people only started to come around to him after his semblance was revealed to everyone including him, and it was a whole big thing. But that isn’t the point. Sorry for rambling. XD

My point is, this is a very interesting concept that I already loved in theory. It was a handy way to redeem an otherwise very hard to redeem character for my fanfictions, but it also gave some angst and presented all the characters with some very hard to answer questions. And there was also a question of just how much Roman could be blamed for, since his semblance technically hadn’t made him do anything, and had instead slowly stripped him of his morality in a loop he could’ve probably broken early on, but hadn’t, and had instead blamed everyone else. To use a probably faulty metaphor, he’d been sliding down a slope already, he just wasn’t responsible for the avalanche that made his fall faster and more destructive.

Ironwood being in a very similar position is such an interesting concept. His passive semblance acting as a defense mechanism that pushes him to do what he thinks needs to be done, but then latches onto that and pushes him to do whatever he can for that one goal while stripping him of his morality is something that makes his character much, much more understandable, sympathetic, and very easy to redeem. But it also doesn’t excuse him of everything. He still arguably set the path for himself, he still was arguably responsible for how he started down the decline, and he has to deal with the fact that whether or not he was entirely culpable, he still hurt people and that hurt isn’t going to go away just because it wasn’t James’s fault that he got so bad. He started slipping down the slope, but he wasn’t responsible for the avalanche that made his fall faster and more destructive.

And while it clearly wasn’t slow going growth over the course of twenty years, and his circumstances were so suddenly severe that it feels less like James had outs, with this interpretation we can gauge stages of how much his semblance seems to affect him.

Stage 1. Barely affected

He still has clarity, is able to hold himself back, does things even though he might not think it’s the best course because he trusts and listens to others, clearly cares about everyone, seems like a very reasonable person, so on and so forth.

Stage 2. Somewhat affected

We don’t see much of James here, but we see that he’s flexing his power over Jacques, pulling back his forces from the other Kingdoms, threatening - All for very good reasons, all understandable, all incredibly sympathetic, but still, it seems a bit too much.

Stage 3. Is it him or is it his semblance?

There’s a lot of good James did or was trying to do in season seven, not everything - in fact, very little - he did was evil, it was all well intentioned, it was all in pursuit of good goals. But, he was neglecting what Mantle needed. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t try to protect the people of Mantle, he’s the one who started the evacuations in the first place, after all. But we can see that he’s focusing on his end goals and letting other things fall on the back burner, even important things. I don’t think this is outside of his character, but with the application of his semblance, there’s the question: How much of it is James and how much of it is his passive semblance building up and pushing him into things he otherwise might not do? However, there’s still this softness, still the fact that he’s trying, still the fact that his back is to a wall, still the fact that underneath ‘what he has to do I.E. his semblance’ he’s clearly still himself, his semblance hasn’t taken him over to the point where he’s hard to recognize. Theeennnnnn there’s

Stage 4. This isn’t ‘James,’ this is his semblance.

This doesn’t connect with the earlier seasons at all. This was a rapid fire quick and jerky fall that didn’t fit with his earlier character (no I won’t argue this point, Ironwood haters don’t @ me.) The only thing that really can make this make sense for me is James’s semblance manifesting in a strong way that eclipses his personality. Personally I still think it’s godawful writing because A. his semblance isn’t even mentioned in the show, so it feels like a stupid and totally out of character forced sudden jump, even if the writers ‘intended it to be because of his semblance,’ but also B. because it went too fast still, so there isn’t as much of an impact here. However, the potential is astronomical! James’s semblance has taken control of him, and it might be his fault that he started down this road and started slipping, but now this isn’t him anymore, he can’t actually stop himself from doing these things, his semblance is acting as a form of partial mind control, forcing him to not care about anything outside of his one goal ‘save Atlas,’ to the point where there is no reasoning with him, and he can’t help it. Tbh, the fact that his aura broke and they decided to keep going with ‘evil Ironwood’ is such an incomprehensible mistake imo. There’s every possibility that his aura was already replenished by the time he woke back up and his cell went down and his brain said ‘kill Jacques’ for who knows what reason, but there’s also the possibility that CRWBY was just like ‘people were expecting the semblance we literally gave James that makes him much less responsible for anything he did to matter and for us to make him sympathetic in the narrative, and for our story to therefore make more sense? RIP to those amateurs, they should know by now that we don’t use good concepts!’

Like, the concept of how it could work in action is so good and I honestly would really enjoy it in practice in the show. Unfortunately, the writers suck too much for that and throw good concepts away on a whim.