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qui-rault · 1 year ago

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Aulard on Herault de Sechelles

Okay here we go, another author who is absolutely in love with Herault. I’m not even joking, Aulard is completely head over heels for this man. So here is his chapter on Herault de Sechelles in his book Les orateurs de la Législative et de la Convention: l'éloquence parlementaire pendant la Révolution française (Tome 2). Link here: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5441755r

A few notes:

When I make a translation, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anything an author says. It's important to keep in mind that every author has their own agenda and writes about historical events and historical figures within the context of their own viewpoint. Aulard , as you will see, is a keen supporter of Danton, and he labels Herault as a Dantoniste throughout the entire chapter. Whether Herault should be considered as a strict Dantoniste is, in my non-professional opinion, up for debate. A lot of people are still not aware, for example, that he and Fabre d'Eglantine were arrested separately to, and before Danton and Camille were arrested, and it was only afterwards that it was decided that they should be tried together.

Aulard neglects to give sources for several of the statements that he makes and is very condescending towards Robespierre and Saint-Just. He also seems to try to justify Herault’s actions during the revolution by saying that he was mostly acting to keep Robespierre off his back. I personally think this is incredibly injurious to Herault, who was an active participant in the Revolution – we have no reason to believe, as many would like to, that he was only pretending to support the Revolution to survive, rather than because he genuinely believed in its principles.

Also, apparently Herault bought a lottery office for one of his mistresses and I just … cannot deal with this man.

Anything with an asterisk is my personal note/observation. I will take the time to remind every one again that my French is dismal and that is why I always link the original. Huge thank you again to @ans-treasurebox for helping me with translating parts of this and also to @orpheusmori who had to sit there and put up with me losing my mind over Herault on the Discord for several nights in a row.

Chapter VIII – Herault de Sechelles

Herault de Sechelles was the ornament of the Dantonist party. A man of the court and of noble family (1), a classical and lucid spirit, an orator enamored with academic elegance, he forms a perfect contrast with the rusticity of Legendre. When he was very young, he was introduced to Marie Antoinette by her cousin Madame de Polignac, pleased her, and obtained from her a position as a lawyer at the Chatelet. He won great success there through his talent for speaking and by the choice of his causes, calculated to interest the sensitivity of his protectors. "There is applause on all sides, says one of his biographers, at his eloquent indignation against the ingratitude of a pupil towards his tutor and against the odious behavior of an opulent girl who had abandoned her mother in need."

(1) His grandfather had been lieutenant general; his father, colonel of the Rouergue regiment, had perished gloriously at the Battle of Minden (Jules Claretie, Les Dantonistes, p. 317). He was also a nephew of the Marshal de Contades (Souvenirs de Berryer, I, 1)

In 1779, at the age of 19, he published Eloge de Suger. Serious and charming, he was soon called, by the favor of the Queen (1), to the post of Advocate General in the Parliament of Paris. The parliamentarians, he would say, hated him, either because of the rapidity of his fortune (2), or for his philosophism.

(1) She sent him, it is said, a scarf embroidered with her own hand. - His last speech as a lawyer was a triumph: the magistrates and the audience accompanied him, applauding, to his carriage. Journal de Paris of August 7, 1785, quoted by J. Claretie, ibid.

(2) La pere de Berryer's (ibid.) says that he had been appointed after a hard fight and he adds "He had justified this sudden elevation by the marvelous ease of speaking, which he had shown in various causes of brilliance."

He did not believe himself out of place among the combatants of July 14, and he broke with the court party at the beginning of the revolution. At the end of 1790, he was elected judge in Paris, then he became commissioner of the king at the tribunal de cassation. A member of Parliament for Paris in the Legislative Assembly, he hesitated at first between the royalists and the Jacobins. On the 6th of October, he protested against the revolutionary decree issued the day before on the ceremonial of the royal session. Interrupted as an aristocrat, he was silent and observed in silence until the end of 1791.

On the 29th of December, he delivered a speech on war, in which, in the manner of Brissot, but more briefly, he drew a picture of the state of Europe: according to him, each power was too poor to desire war. All the more reason to demand a lot, to summon the King of Prussia, to intimidate the counterrevolutionaries from within. Is he for war or for peace? Does he support Brissot or Robespierre? We don't know; but we can see in his somewhat equivocal words the Dantoniste policy: let's make war, but let’s be sure about making it, after having defeated the court.

This speech pleased and, although ambiguous, rang true. From then on, Herault followed a democratic line. On the 14th of January, in response to the declaration of Pilnitz, he proposed to the Assembly an address to the people, in which the perfidy of the court was clearly indicated. As for the threats of Europe, France only had to rise to confound them. "Certainly, the French, after having taken such a high rank, will not resolve to descend to the last place; yes, the last, for there is on earth something more vile than a slave people, it is a people who become so again after having known how to cease to be so."

On the 24th of January, he attacked the draft decree presented by the diplomatic committee in response to the Emperor's office: "I regret, he said, that the committee did not announce or rather reiterate the known resolution of France, which, as a consequence of her renunciation of any conquest, having also renounced to meddle in any way with the form of government of other powers, must doubtlessly, in the face of all mankind, expect the most perfect reciprocity; and when one will see a wise people regulating within its homes the form in which it suits it to live, leaving peace to its neighbors and seeking order for itself; if ambitions, vengeance, dare to arm themselves against the happiness of such a people, the world, posterity, history, by pitying them, will avenge them, and will mark with eternal opprobrium their vanquished enemies and even their conquerors, if there could be any.”

This elevated and diplomatic language made an impression and the Assembly voted the draft decree of Herault, by which the king was invited to declare to the emperor that he could henceforth treat with him only in the name of the French nation, to ask him if he wanted to remain the friend of the French nation and to give until the 15th of February to respond.

He was twice rapporteur for the legislation committee: on the 22nd of February, on ministerial responsibility, the conditions of which he discussed pleasantly; on the 7th of April on the acceleration of judgments in cassation.

At the beginning of July 1792, the gravity of the circumstances had led the Assembly to add an extraordinary commission to the diplomatic and military committees. The diplomatic qualities of his words led Herault, on the choice of his colleagues, to be designated for the drafting of the report relating to the declaration of the homeland in danger, a report which would be read with passionate attention by all of Europe (July 11). "Our most important business, he said, is to go to war soon, and not to wait for a chance or a set back which, however slight, might make some of the powers who are now mute observers, but whose diplomatic correspondence shows us, perhaps in the distance, secret hopes and a prudence subordinated to fortune, determine to be against us. Let us therefore produce a great movement, let us deploy a formidable apparatus, let us interest each citizen in his fate: let’s call, it is time, all over the fatherland, all the French, all those who, having sworn to defend the Constitution until death, have the happiness of finally being able to carry out their oath. The fatherland is in danger, and this single word, like the electric spark, hardly left within the national representation, will resound the same day in the 83 departments, will rumble on the heads of the despots and their slaves; and this single word will repel their attacks, or will victoriously support the negotiations, if, however, these are negotiations that we can hear and which in no way alter the immutable sanctity of our rights.”

In a more critical than enthusiastic spirit, Herault examines the objections that could be made to this declaration; he exposes them with a gift of objectivity very rare in this time of passion. He ends with a sufficiently warm oratory: "When, under Louis XIV, despotism, seconded by the genius of Turenne, held in check four armies at the same time, let us believe with confidence in the cause of the human race and in the miracles of freedom. Ah, gentlemen, a prophetic voice rises in my heart: we have sworn to be free; it is to have sworn to conquer! Called, in the face of the universe, to stipulate the rights of humanity, let us avenge these sacred and imperishable rights: I swear by these phalanxes which will gather from all parts of France, and by you, intrepid Gouvion, by you, brave Cazotte; and by all of you whom a death so beautiful and so desirable has reaped before the victory, under the walls of Philippeville; virtuous citizens, whose memory will henceforth preside over our destinies, and whose souls, quivering with joy in the depths of the tombs, will share in all our triumphs!”

In matters of revolutionary enthusiasm, that is all that the noble and pure rhetoric of Herault de Sechelles can give. He understands, he interprets with truth the spirit of 1792; he is not under its influence. His reason approves of patriotic folly; his heart does not share it. There is in this beautiful spirit an inability to be moved, to vibrate with the same passions as the people. He admires Danton and would like, I believe, to possess his sympathetic verve; but, whatever he does, he mingles with the passions of the time only as a dilettante, with the reserve of a delicate observer, with a good will that is immediately cooled by a innate decency. His friend Paganel said that he distinguished himself from the men of his party by "his liberal education, his gentle affections, the tastes and the urbanity which reveal the beautiful forms of his body and the noble and brilliant features of his face". (1)

(1) Paganel, II, 247. Cf. Souvenirs du pere du Berryer, I, 176 “Herault de Sechelles was not forty years old in Year II. He was one of the most handsome men in France, tall, dark-faced, very noble; he had the manners of the court."

Indolent, selfish, he pleased everyone, even the fiercest sans-culottes, who forgave him his status as a ci-devant because of his modesty, his affability, and the pleasant turn he gave to the most revolutionary measures. Paganel, believing to praise him, judges him severely "He spared, he says, all opinions, and appropriately took, but only for his defense, the colors of each party." No, Herault was not a hypocrite (1), but an epicurean who tasted the flower of each opinion in turn, an eclectic to whom it seemed that all sides were right, but that there was more common sense and good faith in that of Danton. He loved life; but he did nothing ugly to avoid the guillotine. His laziness explains what is undulating in his politics, and Paganel was truer and shrewder when he wrote "laziness dominated over all his tastes, and the love of women over all his other passions. His speeches to the tribune, his work on the committees, were many victories he won over himself, were so many thefts from his pleasures. Herault lavished a life which promised him only brief pleasures. He was always ready to lose it. He felt that the genius of the Revolution would prevail over his precautions and his prudence; and each event warned him of his destiny. He spared himself the terrors of it, by filling with much existence the few days which were counted to him..."

(1) This reputation came to him from the contrast which was noticed between his political gravity and his private playfulness. Saint-Just would say hatefully in his report: "Herault was serious in the Convention, a buffoon elsewhere, and laughed incessantly to excuse himself for not saying anything". And Sieyes wrote in his intimate notes: "Brilliant with his success, H. de S., in his distraction, looked like a very happy funny fellow, who smiled at the irascibility of his thoughts" (Sainte-Beave, Causories du Lundi, t. V).”

Mais c’est la Herault tel que le fit la crise meme de la Terreur.* In 1792, he is still smiling and optimistic. It does not seem that the fall of the throne moved him. On the 17th of August, he traced with a rather bold hand the first draft of the revolutionary tribunal. His educated voice mingled with the great voice of Danton in the work of national excitement which marked, in August 1792, the dictatorship of the Cordeliers and Girondin patriots. His proclamation on the capture of Longwy (August 26) is not lacking in emphasis, any more than the noble letter he wrote on September 10, in his capacity as president, to the widow of the heroic Beaurepaire.

*This sentence has eluded my ability to translate.

In the first six months of the Convention where he represented the department of Seine-et-Oise, his speeches were rare. Elected president on the 2nd of November, he was sent with Simon, Gregoire and Jagot, to Mont Blanc. He was still there during the trial of the king, whom he condemned, it is said, by letter, but without saying to what penalty. The Convention liked to be presided over by this man of noble face and conciliatory manners. They put him at their head on two important occasions. It was he who presided temporarily, in place of Isnard, on the night of May 27 to 28, when the commission of the Twelve was broken up for the first time. On the 2nd of June, he replaced the tired Mallarme in the chair, and had the sad honor of guiding the Convention in the walk it took in the Tuileries Gardens and the Carousel, to make people believe that it was free and to save its dignity. It was therefore to the beautiful Herault that Hanriot made his crude reply "The people did not rise to listen to phrases, but to give orders."

He was made a deputy to the Committee of Public Safety on the 30th of May "to present constitutional basics". On the 10th of June he tabled the famous draft Constitution, improvised with so much haste. Circumstances alone made the short and dull report he read on this subject famous. There is only one original idea: the establishment of a national grand jury, to which each department would appoint a member, and whose function would be “to protect the citizens from the oppression of the Legislative Body and the Executive Council.” This article was rejected on the 16th of June at the request of Herault himself, who declared that he had always considered the institution of the a national jury to be very dangerous. This is the first time that a reporter has admitted to having an opinion other than expressed in their report. And yet, on the 24th of June, he proposed in his name an additional article: of the censorship of the people against its deputies and of its guarantee against the oppression of the legislative body. This system contained the single Chamber, counterbalanced it as a second Chamber, and tended to the same end as the "national jury". This bicameriste insistence of Herault served as a theme for the Robespierrist Jacobins to slander him. "We remember, Saint-Just would say in his report, that Herault was with disgust the mute witness of the work of those who drew up the plan of the Constitution, of which he skillfully made himself the shameless reporter." (1)

(1) Yet Couthon praised Herault’s attitude on the committee to the tribunal (26 brumaire an II).

Yet nothing would alter the favor he enjoyed at the Convention. Re-elected to the Committee of Public Safety, on the 17th of July he made this chimerical and Jacobin proposal, inspired by the beautiful dreams of Jean-Jacques, at which his skepticism must have made him smile to himself, "Citizens, you decreed this morning that the house of the traitor Buzot, in Evreux, would be razed. The Committee of Public Safety thought that it was necessary to celebrate the return of freedom in this city by a civic festival, in which six young virtuous republicans will be married to six young republicans chosen by an assembly of old men. The dowry of these young girls will be provided by the nation". The Convention adopted the proposal.

As we can see, his talented pen didn't hesitate to align with the ideas of others. There was even one instance where he acted as a rapporteur to interpret the underlying opposition of the Robespierrists to Danton's inclinations. On August 1st, 1793, Danton had proposed the establishment of the Committee of Public Safety as a provisional government, seeing in this unity of dictatorship the most effective means to defend the nation and the revolution. Hérault had too much political acumen and was too much a friend of Danton to hesitate in opposing the anarchic and disorganizing spirit alongside him. Nevertheless, he allowed himself to be influenced and presented a report against his master's proposal, contributing to its rejection on August 2.

On the 9th of August, by a singular favor, the Convention called him once more to the chair. They wanted her noblest and finest speaker to appear and speak in their name at the national holiday, which was held the next day in honor of the acceptance of the Constitution by the people. It was a new federation. Mixed with an immense retinue in which there were delegates from all the primary assemblies of the Republic, the Convention went slowly to the Champ de Mars, according to the program created by David, and stopped at six solemn stations, in front of the fountain of regeneration, in front of the triumphal arch erected in honor of the women of October 6, at the Place de la Revolution, at the Invalides, at the altar of the fatherland, and finally in front of the monument for the warriors who died for the fatherland, at the Champ de Mars.

Herault thus delivered six speeches which shone more by the high decency of the expressions than by the internal feeling. He moved the people, however, when he addressed the dead soldiers: "Ah! how happy you were! You died for your country, for a land dear to nature, loved by heaven; for a generous nation, which vowed a dedication to all feelings, to all virtues; for a Republic where places and rewards are no longer reserved for favor, as in other states, but assigned by esteem and by trust, you have therefore fulfilled your function as men and French men; you entered the tomb after having fulfilled the most glorious and desirable destiny that there is on earth; we will not outrage you with tears.”

The spirit of this festival, as reflected in the speeches of Herault de Sechelles, was entirely philosophical and naturalistic: "Oh Nature! exclaimed the friend of Danton, receive the expression of the eternal attachment of the French for your laws, and that these fertiles waters that spring from your breasts , that this pure drink that watered the first humans consecrate in this cup of fraternity and equality, the oaths that France makes to you on this day, the most beautiful that the sun has lit since it was suspended in the vastness of space.”

The inspiration of the six speeches of the president of the Convention had no deist, spiritualist character: it is the indirect negation of the ideas of Rousseau, the glorification of the positivist tendencies of Diderot. One can imagine what sadness, sincere and respectable, Robespierre must have experienced at this demonstration which already foresaw the Feast of Reason. I admit that he, who was born to preach, was envious of the role of great philosophical pontiff that the Dantonist Herault played that day. But it was a deeper feeling, a believer's pain that kindled in him that hatred, of which the harmless and amiable haranguer was to be the victim.

From then on, [Herault] felt himself watched by the symbolic and frightening eye which figured on the banners of the Jacobins, and he saw that Robespierre was watching him. He immediately darkened the color of his presidential speeches, but without carmagnole. Soon he had himself sent on a mission to Alsace, and he wrote, from Plotzheim, on 7 Frimaire Year II, in Jacobin style: "I have taken all possible measures to raise the department of Haut-Rhin to the level of the Republic. The public spirit was entirely corrupted there. Intelligence with the enemy, aristocracy, fanaticism, contempt for assignats, speculation and non-execution of the laws everywhere: I fought all these scourges, I suspended the department, created a departmental commission; I forced the popular Society to regenerate itself; I broke up the surveillance committees, the least of which were feuillants, and I replaced them with sans-culottes; I organized here the movement of terror which alone could consolidate the Republic: I have created a central committee of revolutionary activity, which requires the rapid action of all the authorities; a revolutionary force detached from the army and which covers the whole department; a revolutionary tribunal, finally, which will bring the country to its senses. "

Thus declaimed this delicate,* for reason as much as for personal prudence: we know, moreover, that he was not rigorous to the aristocrats of Alsace and that he did not shed a drop of blood (1).

*Aulard uses delicate here as a noun and I’m genuinely not sure what to translate it as. Possibly he means fop, or dandy, possibly someone who is tricky or someone who is tactful, as in a “delicate situation”. However, these are only my suggestions and possibly inaccurate.

(1) Cf. Hist. De la Revol. Fr. Dans le departement du Haut-Rhin, par Veron-Reville, 1865, in-8.

But, since the feast of August 10, Robespierre had been weaving a skillful plot against him and was trying to undermine the Dantonist party through him. His plan, indicated in his intimate notes (2), was to make Herault pass for a spy for foreign powers in the Committee of Public Safety.

(2) Le proces des dantonistes, par le docteur Robinet, pass.

The care which this serious spirit took to learn about all foreign affairs, his continual handling of diplomatic papers, might give some pretext to the accusation of communicating to the enemy the plans of the revolutionary government.

As it happened, like everyone else, he had had relations with Proly, bastard of the Prince of Kaunitz. On 26 Brumaire, Bourdon (de l'Oise) echoed these rumors, and dared to say to the Convention: "I denounce to you the ci-devant attorney general, the ci-devant noble Herault Sechelles, member of the Committee of Public Safety, and now commissioner in the Army of the Rhine, for his liaisons with Pereyra, Dubuisson and Proly." But the mine burst too soon: there was a general protest, and Couthon himself had the honesty to pay homage to the patriotism of Herault.

However, an incident had occurred in Alsace, which gave pretext to enormous calumnies. In Brumaire, a letter was intercepted at the outposts of General Michaud's army, who sent it to Saint-Just and Lebas, in Strasbourg. Signed: the Marquis de Saint-Hilaire, this letter tended to lead people to believe in intelligence between the people of Strasbourg and the enemy. The trick was crude. But how to make Saint-Just listen to reason? He immediately imprisoned part of the authorities of Strasbourg, and left in his post only the mayor Monet, and a deputy. A second letter arrived immediately, same signature, dated Colmar, 7 Frimaire Year II. The mayor was reproached for not having yet delivered the city, despite the money received: and the "marquis de Saint-Hilaire" added: "I have only been here (in Colmar) to talk to our friend Herault, who promised me everything."

On the spot, the representative Lemane, who had replaced Saint-Just and Lebas in Strasbourg, had the mayor arrested and, insultingly, sent the letter to Herault. [Herault] brought together the authorites and the popular Society of Colmar and, in a long speech, warns them against the machinations of the royalists, adding that he asks for his recall. It was, among the patriots of Alsace, a cry of pain, for Herault had made himself loved during his mission. But he was exasperated by Lemane's suspicion (1).

(1) Veron.Reville, pass.

Back at the Convention, he was all the more anxious to justify himself because his colleagues on the Committee displayed an insulting distrust of him. Young Robespierre claimed to have brought back from Toulon a document which proved the betrayal of his college: "Ah! how could I be vile enough, cried Herault, to abandon myself to criminal liaisons, I've only had one intimate friend since the age of six. Here he is! (pointing to Lepelletier's painting) Michel Lepelletier (2) O you, from whom I will never part, whose virtue is my model; you who were, like me, the butt of parliamentary hatred, happy martyr, I envy your glory. I would rush like you, for my country, to meet the daggers of freedom; but were it necessary that I were assassinated by the dagger of a Republican? - Here is my profession of faith. If having been thrown by the chance of birth into this caste that Lepelletier and I have not ceased to fight and despise is a crime which I must atone for: if I must, I still have the freedom to make new sacrifices; if a single member of this assembly sees me with suspicion at the Committee of Public Safety: if my prorogation, a source of continually recurring hassles, can harm the public thing before which I must disappear, then I pray the National Convention to accept my resignation from this Committee."

Not one of the accusers answered a word; the Convention not only passed on the agenda on the resignation of Herault, it ordered the printing of his speech (9 Nivose).

(2) assassinated Lepelletier, like Marat, had only admirers. In reality, Herault could not bear his vanity, and mocked him. This president, after 89, refused one day to sit at the same table as a simple prosecutor. We find the comic account of this incident as it took place at Herault’s house, in Oeuvres completes de Bellart, VI, 128.

This triumph did not stop the calumny. On 11 Nivose, Robespierre wrote in his own hand and had Collot, Billaud, Carnot and Barère sign this letter to Herault, "Citizen colleague, you had been denounced to the National Convention, which sent this denunciation back to us. We need to know if you persist in the resignation which you have, it is said, offered yesterday to the National Convention. We ask you to choose between perseverance in your resignation and a report of the Committee on the denunciation of which you have been the object: because we have here an indispensable duty to fulfill. We await your written repudiation today or tomorrow at the latest." These hypocritical threats did not intimidate Herault: he did not resign, and the Committee made no report.

The documents of young Robespierre, we have them: they are in the Archives. These are Spanish papers seized by one of the cruises on an enemy ship: the name of Herault is not even stated there. It is to be believed that the famous threatening letter had no other purpose than to force Herault to reveal himself, in the event that, as was hoped, he would be guilty of high treason. We can guess Robespierre's rage, his confusion, in the presence of this disappointment. His audacity knew no bounds: on 26 Ventose, Herault was arrested with Simond for complicity with the enemies of the Republic and relations with a citizen charged with emigration. The next day, on a summary report from Saint-Just, the Convention ratified this arrest, but did not decree it until 11 Germinal with the Dantonists.

In the meantime, the innocence of the defendant had come to light: the emigre whom he had been accused of hiding in his home was none other than his own secretary, Catus, appointed by the Committee of Public Safety and who, if he had crossed the border, had only been able to do so for a diplomatic mission. They were careful not to confront Herault with this. Moreover, Saint-Just's report of 11 Germinal did not make the slightest allusion to this grievance, which had been the official cause of the Dantonist's [Herault’s] arrest. It was not even brought up at the revolutionary tribunal. (1)

(1) Cf Robinet, 349-352.

In order to ruin Herault, it was necessary to resuscitate the old grievance formerly disavowed by Couthon, and to accuse him of complicity with the foreigner. Saint-Just dared to say: "Herault, who had placed himself at the head of diplomatic affairs, did everything possible to avert the projects of the government. Through him, the most secret deliberations of the Foreign Affairs Committee were communicated to the foreign governments. He had Dubuisson make several trips to Switzerland, to conspire there under the very seal of the Republic.”

It was not easy for the men of the revolutionary tribunal to color the condemnation of Herault who had exclaimed proudly, in the style of Danton: "I challenge you to present the slightest clue, the slightest adminicle possible, to make me only suspect of these communications." (2)

(2) Asked about his name and where he lives: "My name is Marie-Jean, a name not very prominent even among the saints. I sat in this room where I was hated by parliamentarians." Accused of complicity with Chabot and others, he confined himself to denying that he had knowledge of the affair. The court did not insist. But it must be recognized that Herault's notorious intimate relationship with the Abbe d'Espagnac made an unfavorable impression.

They then read to him the famous papers seized on a Spanish ship, two letters from Las Casas and Clemente de Campos, Ambassador of Spain, in which Herault was mentioned by name as an agent of the foreign country. The unfortunate replied: "The tenor of these letters, the perfidious style in which they are written, sufficiently indicates that they were fabricated abroad only to make patriots into suspect and to ruin them. And certainly, the trap is too grossly overstretched to let myself get caught up in it!" Now, and this is not the least infamy of the Robespierreists, the prosecution had not hesitated, in order to ruin Herault, to insert his name in the two Spanish letters, to fabricate all the passage where his accomplices were supposed to reveal his name. We have said it: these papers are in the Archives, M. Robinet published them, and there is no question of Herault’s involvement.

Asked about his mission in Alsace and about his negotiations in Switzerland, he replied, according to Topino-Lebrun, that he had worked, with Barthelemy, for the neutrality of Switzerland, and protected France from an army of 60,000 men. . -And Dubuisson's mission? It was Minister Defeorgues who gave it to him. -And Proly? - "I never communicated to Proly anything in politics, there was none (sic). Moreover, I had to confront myself with Proly. I was deceived, like Jay Sainte-Foix, like the Convention, like Jean-Bon, who wanted to take him on as a secretary, like Collot d'Herbois." And he added: "Like Marat, Proly was carried in triumph. The Convention, by a solemn decree, received my explanations."

Then came the insignificant accusation of having corresponded with a refractory priest. To which Herault replied that this priest, being a simple canon, could not be submitted to the oath and therefore could not be refractory. Finally, in a sort of peroration, he recalled what he had done and suffered for the Revolution. "It is here," he said, "the moment to invoke my services, to remind my judges of this Constitution which has cost me so much sweat, this Constitution accepted by all good French citizens as making them happy: It is by this Constitution that I saved the fatherland, and I can tell the French what a Roman general said: At this time, in which I have saved you, let us go to the Capitol to give thanks to the gods. These were not the only services I rendered to the fatherland: I was seen on the memorable day of July 14, 1789." Here, either foolishly or by malice, the Bulletin defers these six lines that conclude Herault’s defence to the next issue: "On July 14, 1789, I had two men killed beside me: I have not ceased to be pursued by the royalists, and especially in my mission in Sardinia. I was appointed judge, to the great regret of all the counter-revolutionaries who shuddered with rage; and when I accepted this post, it was necessary to have had courage to fill it."

All accounts agree that Herault was imperturbable in the midst of these dreadful debates. Condemned, he said coldly: "I expected that!" And later, approaching Camille, who was choked up and foamed with rage: "My friend, let's show that we know how to die." On the cart, according to Desessarts, "he was placed alone on the last seat; he carried his head high, but without any affectation; the most beautiful color shone on his face. Nothing announced the slightest agitation in his soul: his eyes were gentle and modest, he cast them around him without seeking to fix attention or to inspire interest. One would have said, seeing him, that cheerful ideas were occupying his imagination."

III

Such was the political career of Herault, much inferior to the personal merit of this distinguished man, one of the finest natures that appeared at the end of the eighteenth century. His philosophical opinions were those of Diderot, for who, a little denigrating, he wrote an unreserved eulogy (1).

(1) Voyage a Montbar, etc., au IX, in-8, p. 107-108.

They were also those that Buffon expressed to him in 1785: "I have always named the creator, said the great writer to him in an intimate outpouring; but you only have to remove this word, and naturally replace it with the power of nature, to give rise to two great laws: attraction and impulse (2).”

(2) Ibid., pg. 36.

The same philosophical freedom appeared in Herault's conversation. Shortly after 89, the lawyer Bellart, invited to the house in Epone, was scandalized by the remarks which he heard there. "The master of the house rested from the impieties with the obscenities. Finally, in two or three days, I discovered that he was materialistic to the highest degree." Bellart took it into his head to convert him and delivered to him a tirade as orthodox as Sganarella's remonstrance to Don Juan: "Don't be afraid," replied the other; although materialistic I will still take care of you, if necessary (3)."

(3) Oeuvres de Bellart, tom. VI, p. 125-129.

In frimaire Year II, Vilate attended a conversation between Herault and Barere on the supreme goal of the Revolution. Herault placed himself above all from a philosophical point of view. He already saw "the reveries of paganism and the follies of the Church replaced by reason and truth." "Nature, he said, will be the god of the French, as the universe is its temple." He therefore expressed his intimate feelings when, on the feast of August 10, surrounded by all his colleagues, he addressed an official prayer to Nature. On his mission at Colmar, he had made a proclamation "to replace, he said, false religions by the study of nature", and issued a decree which made the decadi obligatory, and instituted a festival of Reason in each canton capital (4).

(4) Sciout, Hist. De la Constitution civile, III, 741.

To the Robespierrist animosity aroused by such opinions, it would have been necessary to oppose pure and rigid mores. But this delicate* (perhaps entirely disgusted) lived in an elegant orgy. He was the titular lover of the beautiful and famous Sainte-Amaranthe. He knew the art of living together in peace, around him, several young women whom his beauty had fascinated. He made them wear his colors, yellow and purple, and the ultra-Jacobin Vinent denounced in his journal the impudence of this debauched young patriot. He himself confesses all this in gallant letters published by La Morency, the authenticity of which is indisputable.

*Same issue with the use of the word delicate.

Even if her style did not reveal the truth of Herault in every line, what interest would Morency have had, in 1799, in forging the documents with which she decorated her autobiographical novel of Illyrine? (1)

(1) Illyrine ou l’ecueil de l’inexperience, an VII, 3 vol., in-8.

Certainly, neither the mores nor the style of this cheerful woman are recommendable. It was she who wrote, with her French and her heart: "We are only happy by doing: it's my morality." But there is an air of truth in the confidences which is further accentuated by the author's thoughtlessness. Yes, the mistress of the conventionnel Quinette was too silly to imagine the details, so probable, so vivid, of her affair with Herault, she who could only support Illyrine's reputation by gross plagiarism (2).

(2) When she saw the handsome Dantonist, she thought she saw, she said naively, the god of love, the graces of Apollo. Invited to dinner with Quinette, in the luxurious apartment of Hérault, she admired the large library, the elegant living room, the outfit of the young conventionnel "his redingote de levite of bazin anglais, lined with blue taffeta."*

*Redingote de levite is a type of jacket/coat, while bazin anglais is a type of fabric.

The story of the visit she made to him at the Convention on the day when he was named president (November 2, 1792) is a piquant tableau of the mores of the time. She handed him, shortly afterwards, a petition in favor of divorce, which Herault read to the Convention and, he said, caused applause. But, a few days later (November 29, 1792), the gallant president was sent to the mission. "It is from the Committee of Public Safety, with the horses at the carriages, that I am writing to you, dear and beautiful; I am leaving at this moment for Mont-Blanc with a secret and important mission...". And, after having spoken to her of his mistresses and of the perfidy of Sainte-Amaranthe, he ended thus: "Adieu, Suzanne. Go sometimes to the Assembly in memory of me. Adieu. The horses rage, and one believes me nationally occupied, while I am only in love with my very dear Suzanne."

When Herault returned, everything was his, and he bought a lottery office for his mistress, for which the security of 30,000 francs was lent, she affirms, by the Abbe d'Espagnac. It hurts to see Danton's friend take pleasure in such base intimacy which bordered on cynicism. La Morency has innocuously traced the picture, quite Pompeian, of the erotic distractions of his orgy comrades. No less naively, she explains this shamelessness: "It is rather to kill himself, she says, that he takes pleasure to excess, than to be happy." Herault said to her, probably in the first weeks of 1794 "Sinister omens threaten me, I want to hasten to live; and when they tear me from life, they will think they are killing a man of thirty-two: well! I will have eighty years, because I want to live for ten years in one day!".

It must be admitted: this epicureanism, so indecent in such circumstances, gave color and force to the Robespierrist accusations and compromised Danton's party. But should we see in Herault, as in such a friend of Hebert, a wallowing brute? "Elegant writer, says Paganel, he devoted to letters all the time he stole from the tastes that dominated in him." I have not been able to read Eloge de Suger, which he published at the age of twenty-nine; but his Voyage a Montbar (1785) is an exquisite piece in every respect, in which Buffon lives whole again, man and author. In there, Herault does not show himself, as Sainte-Beuve said, "a light, unfaithful and mocking spy" (1), but an observer and a painter. By the fine truth of his insights, he is ahead of Stendhal, whose dryness and precision he has. A laborious writer, he constantly pursues brevity and simplicity, and he achieves the strength of Chamfort, with more breadth of intelligence and a concern for general insights that he perhaps owes to his association with Buffon (2).

(1) Causeries de Lundi, IV, 354.

(2) In 1788, he published (or rather had printed) le Codicile politique et pratique d’un jeune habitant d’Epone. Revised in prison, this work was not widely distributed to the public until 1801 under the title Theorie de l'ambition. These moral reflections, influenced by a philosophy that is a little too positive and dry, offer a pessimism that is tempered by a good-toned irony. M. Claretie has already pointed out the most remarkable of these maxims as well as a chapter on conversation, where Herault characterizes the most ingenious conversationalists of the end of the eighteenth century and the ideal orator as the one who would summarize the different kinds of spirit of Thomas, de Delille, de Garat, de Cerutti, d'Alembert, de Buffon, de Gerbier and a few others, lawyers or actors. This is the school where he trained and learned to please.

This very modern spirit, turned towards the future, à la Diderot, does not drag scholarly chains after him; he does not have the superstition of Latin, the adoration of Greco-Latin legend. But he knows how to enjoy the past, and tastes true erudition, for example in the Abbe Auger, the translator of Demosthene, for who he pronounced an elegant funeral oration, at the Societe des Neuf-Souers, in 1792. At a time when the University no longer taught Greek, and perhaps for that very reason, Herault says true things about Demosthene, whom he judges as a politician as much as an artist. "The Revolution, he says, by developing our political ideas, made us appreciate the works of some ancients and enjoy all their genius, a measure which we lacked."

He admires in the Greek orator "this proud and sensitive soul, which carries within it all the dignity and all the pains of the fatherland: this general movement, without which there is no popular eloquence, where the accessory relations, tightly packed, roll on high in periods which compensate for the extent of the ideas by the precision of the style.” But here, it is of himself that he thinks and it is his own talent that he designates when he says: "Never, above all, he never ceased to equal, by his efforts, this beauty, this continuous perfection of language, that happy mechanism, so familiar to the orator that he could not even cease to be elegant in the most impetuous apostrophes, in the most vehement outbursts: a rarer merit than one might think, because it is due to a particular kind of spirit, and mainly to the address which is the gift of multiplying the force by distributing it. Here we recognize Buffon's ideas on oratorical style.

He himself had made up, for his own use, a kind of rhetoric which was found in his papers and which the Magasin encyclopedique published in 1795. These are practical precepts, recipes distributed without order, but which bear the mark of experience and whose interest is all the greater since Herault is the only orator of the Revolution to whom we owe a technique of his art. There is a question that first fascinated those who inaugurated the political forum in France: Should we read the speeches or say them? Both methods had supporters: some used them alternately depending on the circumstances. As for improvisation, even those who abandoned themselves to it seemed to excuse themselves for it as if it were negligence: so Herault, who by the way hardly improvised, only poses the alternative, read or say? - “It is only by speaking, he remarks, and not by reading, that one can make what one says truly perceptible, this is the custom of the lawyers of the Parliament of Bordeaux; otherwise, one flounders; the ideas relax, weaken and soon die out. This is what happens to M. de Saint-Fargeau: hence the easy word of most lawyers who are so fond of talking about business. To reconcile the need for a full and concise style with the other, I think you have to learn by heart. It is true that it is costly, but glory is at the end, and that is the way to surpass both those who speak and those who write."

Memory is therefore the first part of public speaking. But how should one learn a speech?

"I meditate on it, says Herault, the main idea, the accessory ideas, their number, their order, their connection, the plan of each part, the divisions, the subdivisions of each object. I dare to affirm that it is then impossible to make a mistake. If one forgot the speech, one would be in a condition to repeat it on the spot; and how much moreover the rhythmic sentences, a little ornamented, a little brilliant, in a word all that strikes the self-esteem of the one who must speak, are they not engraved in the memory with extreme ease!”

"A very useful and very convenient procedure, to which you must get used to, to make up your mind quickly and to remember a multitude of ideas at the same time, is, when you have these ideas, to retain from each only the word that carries, and whose mere memory reproduces the entire phrase. Voltaire said somewhere: "The best words are the couriers of thoughts". Applying this adage here in another sense, I would say that you have to get your brain used to needing only head words [mot tetes] throughout the whole range of longer discussion."

"To learn by heart, this word pleases me. There is, in fact, only the heart which retains well and which retains quickly. The slightest thing which strikes you in place makes you retain it. Therefore, the art would be to hit each other as much as possible."*

*The French here reads: L’art serait donc de se frapper le plus qu’il serait possible. I genuinely have no idea if he means that we should be hitting each other with the force of our words … or actually physically hitting each other. Either could be possible with this man.

"To write. The memory remembers better what it has seen in writing. Make it like a painting where one reads in the way that one speaks."

"Memory is also aided by figures: thus count the number of things you have to learn, in a speech, for example."

"I have also experienced that it was very useful for me to speak to remember a speech; I often tried to speak in public for an hour, and sometimes two, without any kind of preparation. I came out of this exercise with a singular aptitude, and it seemed to me in those moments that if I had had to give a speech, which I would have only read, I would have come out of it with a great advantage.”

After memory, action seemed to him the most important part of eloquence. When he first started out as a lawyer, he had taken lessons from Mademoiselle Clairon. "Do you have a voice?" she asked me, the first time I saw her. A little surprised at the question, and moreover, not really knowing what to say, I answered: "I have one like everyone else mademoiselle. - Well! you must make one for yourself." Here are some of the precepts of the actress, which Herault tried to follow: "There is an eloquence in sounds: study above all to give roundness to your voice; so that there is roundness in the sounds, you have to feel them reflecting against the palate. Above all, go slowly, simple, simple!" She said to him: "What do you want to be? An orator? You must be one everywhere, in your room, in the street." She also gave this advice, purely scenic and bad for a speaker: "To dye the words with the feeling that they give birth to."

Herault says that he constantly thought of Mlle Clairon's voice, and he characterizes his own manner by recalling that of his teacher: "She takes her voice from the middle sometimes softly, sometimes forcefully, and always in such a way as to direct it as she pleases. Above all, she often moderates it, which gives it the slightest brilliance that makes it shine. She goes very slowly, which contributes at the same time to furnishing the mind with ideas, grace, purity and nobility of style. I maintain that there is, in speech, as in music, a sort of measure of tones which helps the mind, at least mine. I have felt that going quickly offends and prevents the exercise of my ideas..." "... Do not believe that this is a real slowness. One disguises it, sometimes by force, sometimes by warmth that we give to certain words, to certain phrases. The result is a pleasing variety, but the bottom line is always serious and posed."

Such was his concern to speak well that for a long time he compelled himself to declaim in the morning the fury of Orestes and the whole role of Mahomet, to the point of scratching his voice: in the evening he felt a strong diction, easy and varied. He neglected no means of training.

He carefully studied the gesture itself. Clairon said to him: "Your type is nobility and dignity in the supreme degree. Very few gestures, but place them appropriately, and observe the oppositions which bring out the changes in gestures." He himself said: "The multiplied gesture is small, is meager. The broad and simple gesture is that of true feeling. It is on this gesture that you will be able to convey a great movement." These notes contain even more practical remarks on action: "It is important to be firm on the feet which are like the base of the body, and from which all the assurance of the gesture proceeds. One cannot practice too much in one's room to walk firm and well under oneself, legs on feet, thighs on legs, body on thighs, back straight, shoulders low, neck straight, head well placed. I noticed that in general, gestures become easier when the body is tilted. When it is straight, if the arms are long, there is a risk of lack of grace. The mid-length gesture is infinitely noble and full of grace. Don't wiggle your wrists, even in the biggest movements. Before expressing a feeling, make the gesture (1)."

(1) The most technical remarks follow: "The soul of the arm is in the elbow ... It is in the elbow that the movement necessarily begins. - When you want to raise your arm, raise your elbows: let it be in general level with the hand. - Also open your arms. These open gestures open beside the body are better than those made in front of you. - By raising your elbow you round your arm. - Also lower your head to make it easier to raise the arms. The gesture is in the combination of the head and the arm. Raise the arm all at once, that is to say, the arm and the hand together. Make the gesture often before speaking: that there often remains an end which can still rise when you have spoken. Open and spread fingers announce astonishment, admiration, surprise; add to it also the elevation of the chest which expands to receive the idea that strikes it.”

Finally, here is a piece of advice which reveals the secret of the disdainful grace with which he appears on the platform: "You must always seem to create what you say. You must command in words. The idea that one speaks to those inferior in power, in credit and above all in spirit, gives freedom, assurance, even grace. I once saw d'Alembert in a conversation at his house, or rather in a hovel, for his room deserved no other name. He was surrounded by cordons bleus,* ministers, ambassadors, etc. What contempt he had for all these people! I was struck by the feeling that the superiority of the spirit produced in the soul."

*Cordon bleus are blue ribbons, i.e. members of an order of knighthood known as L’Ordre des Chevaliers du Saint-Esprit.

This rhetoric of Herault, so ingenious, explains the pleasure of his eloquence; it also explains its weakness. This orator, so preoccupied with training himself, with raising his head, with rising to the height of the subject, does not have in him the sources of oratorical inspiration, always ready and from which a Danton, a Vergniaud, and even lesser haranguers, rise up. I don't believe that he lacks conviction, nor that we should believe in the words that Bellart attributes to him: "When we asked him what party he was from, he answered that he was from the one who doesn't give a fuck about the others." No, there was sincerity in him about his philosophical and political preferences. But he did not have that revolutionary faith which transfigured even the most miserable in times of crisis.

In his Traite sur l’ambition, he distinguishes between male brains and female brains; I believe that he should be placed, whatever has been said of it, in the second of these two categories.

#qui posts #frev #herault de sechelles #i have many thoughts on this man #and i am subjecting you all to them #soon #also please feel free to reach out with feedback!#saint-just #danton #camille desmoulins #robespierre

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someuncreativity · 2 years ago

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This is gonna be quick because I’m leaving my country tomorrow and I’m not returning until Sunday and I probably won’t post until Monday, but I have something exciting kinda planned out.

Over the past week or so, I’ve been creating character designs for a new fan made iteration of a very popular game series. I won’t say which series it is, but just to give a few hints, this series has been adapted many times (console games, anime, movies, books, mobile games, et cetera), and it has been long popular online, though it may be a bit less mainstream on Tumblr than it was back then.

This series in specific is one that I don’t play and one that I have heard and seen has had wasted potential, especially in the last few years, but I genuinely think that, were the company behind it to put more effort into their products, the series would be far more profitable- not that it isn’t, but still.

That said, I’m not making an entire game- if any of you want to do that, go on right ahead, but I have no experience in code or game making. For now, this project will be limited to its story, which I will be releasing in comic strips on Tumblr or novel-style chapters on Archive of Our Own.

Whatever the case, I think this project is going to be a lot of fun, and a lot of that comes from the story. It’s a story that I feel needs to be told, especially in our day and age where we find it so hard to go about life like normal. It’s a story about facing something you feel you can’t possibly survive and then coming out stronger than before. It’s a story I think we can all connect to on some level. For that reason, I’m all the more excited to share it with you once it’s ready.

In the meantime, I‘ll leave you all with this teaser. I know, the quote on a gold background thing is kinda corny… but oh well. Nobody said this whole idea wasn’t corny in itself.

That’s all I wanted to say. Thank you so much for sticking around with me! I hope to see you all very soon!

By the way, for those of you who want to know more, at least one of the silhouettes in the image above has a dead giveaway.

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autumnbrainrot28 · 1 year ago

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꒰ 𝐰𝐞𝐥𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐦𝐲 𝐛𝐥𝐨𝐠 ꒱

୨⎯ Hello! :) You can call me Charlotte or Lottie idm. My pronouns are she/her, I’m from the UK and am not going to talk about my age

Where to find me: lottiesghost on tiktok, tealeaflottie on pinterest, not on much else but feel free to message if you can’t find me/ want to find me on other platforms <3

┊͙Rules

DNI: the obvious - racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism/misogyny + anything against furries/therians, (getting kind of oddly specific and random), if you follow trends and then make fun of people for staying with old ones, if you disagree with people making HC that characters are queer or smth that isn’t entirely accurate to the media and get mad about it (let them have fun it’s not that deep)

I don’t mind swearing or something like that but not if it’s an insult to anyone at all, I don’t think I really swear. Obvious again: no slurs

BE AWARE: I might occasionally reblog some kind of gory Hannibal gifs or something so just watch out if you don’t like that kind of stuff. I don’t have an upload schedule just come here when I feel like it.

I find it very annoying when I have to scroll past incredibly long posts that I don’t want to see for ages just to get to the next one, so I’ll just put this here because there’s quite a bit more

I’m sort of new to tumblr, I’ve looked at a lot of posts and interacted with quite a lot but I don’t really know how it works very well. I see people using lots of terminology about types of blogs and stuff and I am super confused. If anyone could help me out and explain or direct to a post that explains any thing at all to do with using tumblr, that would be a huge help!

The kinds of things I post are quotes, random gifs, theories, going to start making fanart again.

I mainly just reblog stuff atm but I want to start actually posting things soon. Some of my interests I talk about on here are (may have forgotten some, will be updated):

Criminal Minds

Loki (marvel mainly, don’t know much about the mythology but I would love to learn more. Haven’t read the marvel comics yet)

Hannibal (tv show, have watched some of the movies and read red dragon + plan to read the rest of the books)

Killing eve (again, haven’t read the books - will eventually)

Interview with the vampire (show)

Adrianne Lenker (& Big Theif)

Boygenius

Ethel Cain

Hozier

Chappel Roan

The hunger games

Arcane

Life is strange

Lord of the rings (obsessed, seen the movies + started the book and really want to get into Tolkein’s stuff more + started a Sindarin course)

Good omens (book+ show)

Doctor who (started my first rewatch of years, currently on season 11 of new who, dont remember most of it)

Random books, I love love love Fantasy

Astronomy

Paganism

Historical Fashion

Classics (Ancient Greeks)

Writing (poetry, short stories, fanfic, etc.)

Last updated 13th December 2024

͙⁺˚･༓☾ 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐚 𝐧𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐮𝐦𝐛𝐥𝐫! —୨୧—

#intro post #introduction #blog intro

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greaseonmymouth · 7 months ago

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I do not intend to write an entire dissertation in this tumblr post, but I am dropping a bunch of links and sources for further reading about monsterfucking and monsters and I really feel like I need to contextualise some of this reading material instead of just dumping it all on you. This is the piss on the poor website and very few of you are going to go and read all of these sources, because frankly, most of them are academic and this isn’t university. (if I were to teach a course on monsterfucking, however…)

tumblr has 10 links per post limit, so at the bottom there is a link to the googledoc with this exact same text AND ALL THE LINKS. yes you do have to scroll to the bottom sorry not sorry.

For starters, everything that follows is wholly my own opinion. I’m going to be making statements here, and I will be basing those statements on informed research and experience, and also just, you know, my opinion. These statements are subjective to me and everyone can feel free to disagree. I can’t be arsed softening every statement with ‘in my experience’ etc. because I am tired and I want to go to bed. Fewer words will make that happen faster. Though I do cite direct quotes, this isn’t an academic paper, don’t treat it as such.

There are two strands of monsterfucking: cishet female gaze monsterfucking and queer monsterfucking.

The article I linked in my original post and criticised above falls into the first camp. My issue with the article is not that it is a cishet perspective on monsterfucking, my issue with it is that the author, Emily Gould, completely ignores any queer facets (and indeed, origins, as in the case of omegaverse) of monsterfucking and that she wrote this sentence: “It seems, also, like the romance genre as a whole is being pushed by monster romance to make things in human-human books as freaky as possible.” seemingly without pausing to consider that harem, reverse harem, and moresome erotica and romance fiction have existed for decades. The fact that these are now being called ‘Why Choose?’ stories doesn’t change that, and is, I would argue, merely a symptom of marketing. (The fact that this bookriot article treats it as new, is frankly also disappointing: https://bookriot.com/what-is-a-why-choose-romance/ .) Romantasy isn’t new either, the term is. This term is far more marketable than the more longwinded ‘high stakes fantasy romance’. I would also argue that as soon as the term took off, the genre evolved and that it is now a legitimate subgenre of its own within the wider fantasy romance umbrella. Perhaps ‘Why Choose?’ romance/erotica fiction has as well, I’m not nearly as familiar with it. The way traditional publishing is going, particularly since TikTok really took off, punchy buzzwords that are hashtaggeable, shareable, nay, spreadable, are what sells books these days, so the book industry, with financial stakes in everything bookrelated, absolutely encourage this.

And yet, Emily Gould didn’t stop to consider why in omegaverse ‘slick’ is a thing? Vaginas famously do get wet and slippery when aroused, so male omegas (for a given definition of male, considering omegaverse’s gender and sex defying worldbuilding) who do not have vaginas, instead have anuses that produce ‘slick’. I’m tempted to wonder how on earth the cishets function in the real world if they can’t make up their own shit. Am I shocked and surprised that they took omegaverse and ironed out all the queer wrinkles until it turned into a kinky version of cishet alphahole erotica, reinforcing the exact same patriarchal structures that omegaverse broke to begin with? No. but here we are.

It’s established academically speaking, and I’d say generally speaking - this isn’t niche anymore, monsters and queers are mainstream now - that monsters in literature are representations of the Other. The monster is intricately tied with race, gender, sexuality, religious, and other marginalised identities. Queer people are Other. We are monsters. I don’t mean this in a bad way - I very much subscribe to the Hopeful Monster (McCormack, 2015) ideology in this regard, which is to say in simple terms that monstrous difference is a positive thing that drives change and progress. So, not to fall victim to the xkcd 2501 (https://xkcd.com/2501/) effect, here we go.

Monsters for beginners:

Monster Theory: Reading Culture 1996., edited by Jeffrey Jerome Cohen. University of Minnesota Press:.

The Ashgate Research Companion to Monsters and the Monstrous 2013., edited by Asa Simon Mittman, Peter J. Dendle Routledge.

(Examples) Monster as Other - look, in other languages too:

Izaola, Amaia and Imanol Zubero. 2015. "La Cuestión Del Otro: Forasteros, Extranjeros, Extraños y Monstruos [Otherness: Outsiders, Foreigners, Strangers and Monsters]." Revista De Sociologia 100 (1): 105-129.

Kearney, Richard. 2003. Strangers, Gods, and Monsters: Interpreting Otherness Psychology Press.

Khabibulina, Liliya F. 2017. "МОНСТР КАК ДРУГОЙ (ДРУГАЯ) В СОВРЕМЕННОЙ АНГЛОЯЗЫЧНОЙ ЛИТЕРАТУРЕ [Monster as the Other in Modern Literature in English]." Вестник Пермского университета. Российская и зарубежная филология 9 (2).

Now to the (monster)fucking point!

At a very basic level of an embodied monster in fiction (i.e. a werewolf, zombie, vampyre, minotaur, tentacle monster, blue alien, etc.), the embodied monster communicates something about the culture it belongs to (Mittman 2013, 7) and is, for marginalised groups and cultures, empowering as a means to understand and describe the processes which abject, reject, and exclude them (ibid., 8). What does that mean in simple English?

Well, when you write a romance novel about a woman taking a job at a minotaur milking facility and falling in love and lust with a client, then the story represents something. People have actually written papers about Morning Glory Milking Farm, here’s one:

Vivanco, Laura. 2024. “Feeling Judged: Reflections on Pornography and Romance from a Minotaur Milking Farm.” Journal of Popular Romance Studies 13.

Vivanco discusses the world-building in the novel and how it makes subtle feminist points about patriarchal society structures and the dominance of the penis. She also makes the point that this novel is “designed to appeal to readers’ desires while not provoking their fears”, by which she means that the monster here represents a comforting Other. The minotaur isn’t a human man, so the power difference of the real world is erased and replaced with a fantasy power difference. Minotaurs don’t really exist, in the same way a big hulking man with a big dick does, no matter how gentle he may be - so a female reader can give into that fantasy without being triggered. Gould’s article also gives this as the very reason for why monsterfucking narratives are so appealing.

A multitude of pop articles about monsterfucking follow the same train of thought, consider all of these hosted on bookriot, all by different writers:

Monstrous Affections: Exploring Romance and Monsters Lyndsie Manusos, Oct 23, 2019

If your only mention of queer monster romances is to bring in Chuck Tingle specifically as a joke, then, uh, I don’t have much respect for your history of sexy monsters actually.

A Brief History of Sexy Monsters Julia Rittenberg, Oct 4, 2021

This one actually treats monster romance novels as a joke:

Quiz: Which Monster Romance Should You Read this Halloween? Alison Doherty, Oct 10, 2023

Despite listing only het novels, Jessica gets my respect for this:

“There is just so much to love about these monster romance stories, but in the end, it comes down to this: if the protagonist doesn’t have to go through a makeover or extreme change to be loved just as they are, then neither should their monster love interest. Their transformations can be extensive on the inside if they need to become better people, but they don’t have to change a thing about their appearance. In fact, it’s their monstrous appearance that makes them who they are.”

Where To Get Started With Monster Romance Jessica Pryde, Oct 31, 2023

I suppose Alison is trying to keep an open mind in this one:

The Strangest Romance Novels Alison Doherty, Apr 15, 2024

To go on about Morning Glory Milking Farm for a bit more before getting into queer monsterfucking: Vivanco quotes Sananja Basker in her paper, who makes the point that Morning Glory Milking Farm presents a deeply fetishistic view of interracial, rather interspecies, relationships between white women and black men. Basker makes the connection that monsters in these contexts, while representing a racial Other, do so relying on racist steretypes. Or in other words, find-replace ‘minotaur’ with ‘black man’ and there is no perceptible change.

This very brief chapter in a book about tumblr (yes I am referencing this chapter ONLY so I can make you all aware this book exists), mentions these points in discussing the type of posts tumblr users were making about The Shape of Water (2017). One observation made clear that tumblr users were making a distinction between the cishet female gaze and the queer gaze: “Commentary often articulated that despite the primary relationship being between a woman and a “man,” del Toro’s film was exciting because it was about a woman and a monster and thus deviated from the typical heterosexual romance film.”

Another observation highlighted the queer audience’s* viewpoints of the monster as reparative to the stereotype of the monster as a black man stand-in: “One example (...) directly broached issues of race and racism in The Shape of Water, as previous movie “monsters” often functioned as alarmist stand-ins for the sexuality of Black men. Del Toro, however, as a Mexican immigrant, was also seen by Tumblr users as adopting the monster-as- man-of-color metaphor to achieve a strikingly different end.”

*let’s be real here, tumblr is the queer website, I’m not even going to bother digging up a source for this.

Hoch, Indira Neill. 2020. Reblogs, Monsters, and Erotic Amphibians: The Process of Critical Analysis on Tumblr, 69-74 (6 pages) a tumblr book: platform and cultures, University of Michigan Press

I’m not saying that cishet monsterfucking is all bad, and that queer monsterfucking is all good, but I have to admit that I have yet to read a cishet monsterfucking romance novel that doesn’t leave me with a bad aftertaste - no matter how solidly written and how good it was otherwise. I’ve liked the ones I’ve read, they’re not bad novels! But let me give you another example instead of continuing to harp on about minotaurs: The current trend of witch romance novels that read a bit ‘harry potter but for grown ups’, many of which are set in the USA but relying on European magic systems and lineages with no thought given to native Americans who were, well, already there. There’s something deeply disturbing to me about writing a fantasy escapist romance with white heterosexual heroines where the world-building supports diversity only through monsters (few black and no indigenous people present) and upholds what I can only describe as white supremacist values - even if unintentionally. Sarah Hawley’s Glimmer Falls books fall under both monsterfucking and witch romance umbrellas as in these the love interests are demons, and other creatures exist, and like Morning Glory Milking Farm there are even political subplots - book two has a democratic rebellion on the demon plane by marginalised demon hybrids against a tyrannical demon oligarchy! But uh, there are very few non-white characters in these books, and the eurocentric magic system gave me heebie jeebies. The only difference between C. M. Nascosta and Sarah Hawley is that Nascosta selfpublished and Hawley is published by Berkley in the US and Gollancz in the UK.

Where’s that tumblr post chain about HP Lovecraft and fears and bipoc writers when you need it. You know the one. Pretend I haven’t lost the link for a minute and make the connection yourself please.

ETA several hours later: found it: https://schafpudel.tumblr.com/post/702663840742195200/hi-would-you-ever-consider-doing-that-spirited

I’ll spell it out: HP Lovecraft stories represent fears (and racism) but yet can resonate and give meaning to experiences by the very same people Lovecraft feared and hated. The connection I want you to make is that these cishet white monsterfucking books can play into existing power structures and -isms, and yet can resonate and give meaning to experiences by marginalised people. Queer monsterfucking however? Bypasses the -isms. (can they still be racist? Absolutely - I’m writing this post with a queer focus. I can’t possibly cover all viewpoints.)

Actually, while we’re here, lets segue into queer monsterfucking with another tumblr source, which I will quote here in its entirety just in case it disappears tomorrow.

Tumblr user largishcat, March 3, 2020:

i genuinely don’t get cishet monsterfuckers. for context, in the wake of shape of water i participated in this loving-the-monstrous type discussion event slash publishing party wherein i debuted a short story about a woman who “befriends” a cave monster—but that isnt the point. the point is i had to hear straight women talk for hours about how the appeal of monsters is some kind of weird “taming the beast” fantasy—loving a monster until it loves you back, sounding like every bad beauty and the beast take ever.

And there’s my queer ass being like literally none of you get it. this isn’t about power, this is about love and alienation and acceptance. you dumbasses, I’m the monster. this isn’t a metaphor for your shitty boyfriend, this is a metaphor for my own alienation from a society that tells me a the way i am and the way I love are grotesque. this is a fantasy of love free of judgement, separate from societal standards that I’ll never live up to anyway. that ghoul doesn’t care if I’m fat, they think it’s hot that I eat well. that immortal fae creature doesn’t care if the gender on my birth certificate matches the one I use now, they barely have a concept of gender in the first place. that tentacle monster doesn’t care if I shave, they don’t have eyes

monsterfucking is queer culture, everyone else go home

#monsterfucking #queer stuff https://www.tumblr.com/largishcat/611599551785271296/i-genuinely-dont-get-cishet-monsterfuckers-for

With me so far? Have some pop posts about Venom (my beloved):

Venom is an LGBTQA Icon by Anthony Gramuglia

10 Reasons Venom Is Becoming An LGBTQA Cult Film by Anthony Gramuglia

Anthony mate, I hope you have discovered there is a multitude of Venom/Eddie fics on ao3 where they fuck nasty. I think you’d enjoy them.

Very disappointed that this article is now gone and wayback machine didn’t manage to save it, please shed a tear with me: https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/yes-venom-is-a-sex-symbol-and-heres-why

How about…..

The Inevitable "Why People Think King Shark Is Hot" Thinkpiece by Kayleigh Donaldson (Aug. 3, 2021) ?

I don’t know why Kayleigh thinks sharks are difficult to sexualise. She’s clearly never met a single furry in her life. People fucking love drawing antropomorphised sharks with two penises (anatomically accurate to sharks) dicking down other people. (And that’s not even getting into Sidon/Link from Breath of the Wild. Guillermo del Toro himself, monsterfucker extraordinaire, retweeted sidlink fanart in the bygone days of twitter once upon a time.)

I feel I’ve been a bit unfair to bookriot, because they have also published this piece:

The Claws That Catch Feelings: 12 Queer Monster Romances Isabelle Popp, Jun 23, 2022

“Queer monster romances are often between a human and a monster, where by the end the human has embraced the so-called monstrosity within themselves. That monstrosity may in truth be individuality, or the ability to prioritize oneself, one’s own values, and one’s own desires over what the wider world is offering. That kind of character growth facilitates the human’s ability to love and be loved in return, and it gets me every single time.” (Popp, 2022)

Look, it’s getting late, and I’m starting to feel like I’m telling banalities - have we not as a website been participating in the Dracula Daily bookclub for two years running, and making all sorts of queer readings about it - we know this. We know the monster is queer. Water is wet. Here’s a bunch more academic articles and pop pieces on the topic of monsters and queerness and whatnot, maybe I’ll have something smart to say once I’ve finished compiling them.

Teratophilia: Transmedial Representations of Hybrid Sexualities (call for papers - the link leads to academia.edu collection related to the teratophilia conference + the initial call for papers)

"Hybrid, "abnormal", in short monstrous desires and relationships abound everywhere. How to interpret these various valorizations of monstrous sexual configurations, in all the semantic richness and ambiguity of this term, and which include non-human, inhuman, "almost human" entities (Hoquet, 2021)? What do they say about our relationship to the body, to sexuality, to the norm?"

I’m dropping this one purely because it’s a good example of the intersectionality of monster studies and because it provides an example of the positive forces of the monster:

Cosimi, Seth. 2017. ““I’m a Motherfuckin’ Monster!”: Play, Perversity, and Performance of Nicki Minaj”. Feminist Formations, Vol. 29, 2. 47-68 (22 pages)

Elliott, Jaquelin. 2016. “Becoming The Monster: Queer Monstrosity and the Reclamation of the Werewolf in Slash Fandom” Reventant Journal 2.

Ferati, Melissa. 2021. “History and Homoeroticism: Taking a Look at Queer Coding in Horror Media”. Cooper Point Journal (online)

Jones, Stacy Holman & Harris, Anne. 2016. “Monsters, desire and the creative queer body.” Continuum, 30:5, 518-530,

Martins, David Klein. “The Gothic Tradition and the Origins of Queer Monstrosity” Atmostfear Entertainment accessed 28 june 2024

McCormack, Donna. 2015. "Hopeful Monsters: A Queer Hope of Evolutionary Difference." Somatechnics 5 (2): 154-173.

Preciado, Paul B. 2020. Can the Monster Speak? Fitzcarraldo Editions. Translated from French by Frank Wynne.

This one is for the murrricans who can’t go five minutes without injecting themselves and their specific culture into the conversation. I didn’t forget you (how could I). An entire book about queer villains in American media:

Schildcrout, Jordan. 2014. Murder Most Queer: The Homicidal Homosexual in the American Theater. University of Michigan Press

Sellberg, Karin. 2015. “Queer (Mis)Representations of Early Modern Sexual Monsters” 11: 375-407.. Sex, Knowledge, and Receptions of the Past, Oxford University Press

That was a big maybe and I’m just going to go ahead and go to bed. Happy reading.

tumblr has a 10 links per post limits, so here is one link directly to the googledoc with this exact same text in it AND ALL THE SOURCE LINKS.

ETA: 8th july 2024 (also added to the gdoc link above):

Clark, Lucian. Monsters Of Our Own: Monster Symbolism in the Trans Community Genderterror, August 29, 2016

I saw this shared around on Threads (why do I go there, I hate it) and commented on as 'this article is so good' and 'must read' including by a few people whose opinion I normally respect, and seeing as monsterfucking and monster everything is like a special little interest for me, I of course instantly clicked through to read it

and I have to say

what the everloving heterosexual fuck is this

two fat paragraphs about omegaverse that don't even mention its origins - I mean - I just - gaze upon this phrase, and despair:

During estrous, Omegas’ vaginas ooze with “slick,” responding to the Alpha’s intoxicating pheromonal perfume.

IT'S CALLED "SLICK" BECAUSE IT'S FROM SELF-LUBRICATING ANUSES. THE REASON THE OMEGAS NEED SELF-LUBRICATING ANUSES TO BEGIN WITH IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE VAGINAS.

I. have been rendered figuratively speechless. the straights don't know what slick is. the. i. how. how did we end up like this

their dicks swell at the base, creating a “knot,” which lodges them inextricably in the Omega’s slick-soaked (I am so sorry) vagina.

"(I am so sorry)" girl you're writing an article about monster smut and then you have the gall to be embarrassed by the this tame ass (or should i say vagina?) heterosexual omegaverse?

okay, okay. deep breaths. we've only just got started. we started by covering Morning Glory Milking Farm, a minotaur/human erotic romance novel, which well - I've read it, and it's not a bad book by any means, it was actually very very good, a solid story with a great cast and perfectly paced and satisfying romance and loads of sex - is very straight. it's just a minotaur. it's a big guy with a big dick. it's your standard gentle giant/normal sized girl romance. it's not very freaky, but you know, I don't blame the average reader for coming into this thinking this is some out there stuff. gotta start somewhere, right? we didn't all come up through draco/the giant squid crackfic in 2005, you know? and now we've covered Sarah J Maas and we're entering omegaverse territory, this is getting knottier now, right, freakier? this article is going somewhere, right?

you can imagine the intrigue, enemies-to-lovers, and other story lines involved as each captured female eventually finds the member of the barbarian tribe who is destined to worship and fuck the living daylights out of her for the rest of their lives. Oh, and their dicks have a sensitive spur on top designed for clitoral stimulation. It’s just as blue and velvety as the rest of their big alien bodies.

okay so the minotaurs aliens are blue now, i guess.

It seems, also, like the romance genre as a whole is being pushed by monster romance to make things in human-human books as freaky as possible.

ohh?? are we finally getting a proper freak on now??

This genre, “why choose?” or “MMF” (or sometimes even MMMF or MMFM), and also known as “reverse harem,” always features a heroine who is showered with sexual attention by men who are also sexually involved with each other.

having a thousand yard stare moment over here

this author seriously thinks that all these heterofied monster romance tropes are paving the way for the real freaky stuff that is, checks notes, "two hockey players fucking each other while the heroine calls the shots"

this author is positing that human queer erotica/romance are freakier than monster erotica/romance. like. she said that. with her whole chest. black on white.

on one hand a monster, an inhuman being, and on the other, a queer person, a human being. and apparently the real freak is not the minotaur or the blue alien. it is the queer human.

is this satire? it has to be, right?

because if it's not satire, this article is an entire case study in itself on the monstering* of queer people. stunning.

*academic term

#long post #apologies if the cut isn't working #in conclusion: where is my fucking phd

1K notes · View notes

markantonys · 2 years ago

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towers of midnight prologue-chapter 16

the opening quote is from loial’s book about rand!!!! which must therefore get finished and published!! i feel like a proud mother!!!

graendal DID escape! you can’t keep a girlboss down. i suspected she might have because it seemed too anticlimactic an end and No Body No Death (honestly i kept suspecting sammael wasn’t really gonna be dead since iirc rand balefired him from somewhat of a distance and didn’t really see him go down, but then i think moridin confirmed that sammael was balefired and is beyond resurrection), but i wasn’t sure how it could’ve been possible - turned out that it was actually aran’gar and delana who did the compulsion on the guy rand sent in and they were balefired, thus undoing the compulsion.

i love how everyone keeps saying “we must march for the last battle” and then they just set right out for it. like, where are you going? nobody sent out invites for the date, time, and place of the last battle. are y’all just gonna show up at shayol ghul and hope for the best?

we catch up with galad, who’s leading 7,000 whitecloaks through a swamp. “i refuse to feel [the swamp’s] bite, for i am proud.” proud of being a fuckin whitecloak?

“valda’s misdeeds had tarnished the entire order.” you mean more than they’d already tarnished themselves by being a whole organization dedicated to persecuting channelers?

“doing what was right was the most important thing in life.” then why are you a fuckin whitecloak?

“the children have met...hostility [in andor].” as they should!

“light send that elayne held the lion throne.” she does and she will kick you and your friends’ asses for being fuckin whitecloaks. good luck getting sanctuary from her!

okay it’s out of my system now. (update from rereading this after having finished writing the whole post: [narrator voice] it was not out of her system.) i do like galad but i think that he deserves 100x more bullying than gawyn does and yet he gets 100x less, so i have to even it out!

but for some equal opportunity bullying: “light send that [elayne] had escaped the tangles of the aes sedai, though he feared the worst.” trakand brothers realize that elayne is an intelligent adult capable of making her own decisions challenge.

“there were many who would use her as a pawn, al’thor not the least of them.” hey! show your double brother (half-brother and brother-in-law) some respect! “she was headstrong and that could make her easy to manipulate.” as opposed to you, galad, the absolute pinnacle of wisdom and worldliness. i’m certain nobody has ever found YOU easy to manipulate!

“to abandon the children now, after killing their leader, would be wrong.” actually it would be right because then they would be in chaos and could be wiped out! “it’s as simple as that to you, isn’t it?” “it should be as simple as that to anyone.” well SOMETIMES i like galad, other times he is too holier-than-thou for my tastes. lawful good characters don’t tend to be my cup of tea. or lawful anything characters. i love my neutrals and chaotics.

in conclusion, i’m here to report Yet Again that everything about galad’s whitecloak storyline hits VERY different for a show-first person, and i’m wondering how the show could ever make the audience not despise him for the rest of the show’s run after he joins them lmao that’ll be interesting to see. like, i can only retain respect and affection for book!galad by separating the book!whitecloaks (largely nonthreatening buffoons with a hidden evil sector that galad didn’t find out about until much later) from the show!whitecloaks - who might be set up in that same way where galad and the average whitecloak is unaware of valda and co’s crimes, but since the audience was introduced to valda and co first and not “regular” whitecloaks, that’ll be a hard sell.

fain pov talks about Worms. what the fuck are these Worms. i don’t want to know but i will surely find out soon.

i almost forgot that fain got the dagger from the tower and still has it. so maybe mat’s dagger plotline does indeed have more left to come! i kinda wish it was already wrapped up tho, mat has too much on his plate (despite having spent several books dicking around on a circus roadtrip). rj planning the books was like “rand gets the chosen one storyline and all it entails, mat gets the dagger and the horn of valere and luck and ancient memories and military strategy skills and a whole army and the aelfinn & eelfinn and the seanchan and a prophecy hero/villain romance, perrin gets uhhhh [shuffles through notes to see what’s left] wolves i guess” lmao i would love it if the show took the same approach as @butterflydm’s fic series and gave the horn to perrin (since it seems he’ll be on the hunt for the horn in s2 and mat won’t) because mat has way too many Things going on and should offload some to perrin who doesn’t have enough! but idk how likely that is since i think the average book fan would riot if show!mat didn’t get to blow the horn (which, okay i’m sure it’ll be relevant again at the last battle and maybe i’ll eat my words then, but so far it’s been such a tiny part of mat’s storyline that i don’t understand why people are so attached to it)

me: ugh i don’t care about this random farmer me finding out that this random farmer was the guy who gave rand and mat a ride on his cart during the Great Cauthor Roadtrip:

as seen here and with hurin’s reappearance last book, all you have to do to get an emotional reaction out of me is to connect something to The Good Old Days!

rand’s giving some real jesus vibes in this scene. just wandering up out of nowhere dressed in ragged clothes, causing miracles, dropping some cryptic yet comforting words of wisdom for the times ahead, making those who see him feel oddly safe and at peace.

but god rand is so funny here. the farmer’s like hey did you get lost in the mountains and rand says, “no. i’m not lost. finally. it feels like a great long time since i’ve understood the path before me.” and then the farmer says that if rand was hoping to hunt then he went the wrong way because there’s nothing back there of use and rand says, “i wouldn’t say that. there are always things of use around, if you look closely enough. you can’t stare at them too long. to learn but not be overwhelmed, that is the balance.” like bro jdkjfgh you need some refresher lessons in how to interact with normal people in a normal way. he went from darth rand straight to jesus rand and did not stop on any middle ground.

“you’re him, aren’t you? the one they’re talking about?” “it is likely. men are often speaking of me.” because men are obsessed with him and want to fuck him and he knows it.

“meeting those eyes, almen felt a strange sense of peace.” just the opposite of how everybody felt meeting rand’s eyes pre-epiphany!

galad wakes up imprisoned in asunawa’s camp and discovers that - offscreen - asunawa & co have been murdered by whitecloaks loyal to galad and he is now officially lord captain commander. too easy a victory but the last battle is coming so things have gotta move along.

“galad didn’t feel wise or strong enough to bear the title he did.” as if lord captain commander of the whitecloaks is a title that deserves any respect whatsoever. “but the children had made their decision. the light would protect them for it.” no actually i hope the light DOESN’T protect them.

i continue to be frustrated that galad’s “joining an organization whose entire ideology is based around considering people like his mother and sister darkfriends who must be eradicated” plotline resolved in “galad leading that organization and handily removing the few corrupt guys whereas the rest are good actually” instead of “galad realizes the entire organization is fucked up and destroys it from the inside” but whatever

i WILL say that later on perrin notes that all the “good” whitecloaks do smell rabid/crazy/whatever and galad is The Only One who smells normal, so maaaaaaaaybe there is still hope for galad to finally wake up the rest of the way and destroy the organization for good? but i won’t hold my breath.

“[egwene] stepped into her dream, and into [gawyn’s] embrace. they stood in a small stone-walled room shaped like her study in the tower, yet decorated like the common room of her father’s inn. gawyn was dressed in sturdy two rivers woolens and did not wear his sword. a more simple life. it could not be hers, but she could dream...” 😭 egwene has always been the most ready, nay EAGER, of the ef5 to accept her duty and leave dreams of a simple life behind, so it really Gets me when she feels wistful for that simple life!

egwene has a prophetic dream that tells her that something terrible could happen if she doesn’t find mesaana and stop her. i could’ve told you that without a prophetic dream jdfkg

saerin has a scar on her face whose origins she’s never been willing to explain. mesaana???

RAND IS AT THE TOWER TO SEE EGWENE!!!!!! REUNION TIME!!!!

apparently siuan has the Talent of seeing ta’veren? did we know that already? then why didn’t she make moiraine become amyrlin and go dragon reborn hunting herself if she can see ta’veren so easily?

upon finding out siuan bonded bryne as a warder, rand’s only response is “elayne will be interested to hear of that.” ❤️❤️

rand asks what kind of amyrlin egwene is: “‘she’s an incredible one,’ siuan said. ‘one of the greatest we’ve had, for all the fact that she’s only held the seat a short time.’ he smiled again. ‘i should have expected nothing less.’” ❤️❤️❤️

rand gets a mysterious sealed letter from an aes sedai named tiana. oh my god i bet it’s another one of the mysterious For Reeling In Ta’veren letters from verin like the one she gave mat!!! i can only conclude that rand’s instructions from verin will be “marry mat” just as mat’s will be “marry rand”

“‘rand,’ egwene said, softening her tone. ‘i’m going to have some sisters talk to you to determine if there is anything...wrong with you. please try to understand.’” egwene talks to rand for 10 seconds and immediately realizes he needs to see a mental health professional jkfg god bless her

“there didn’t seem to be madness in his eyes. she knew those eyes. she knew rand. light, she thought. i’m wrong. i can’t think of him only as the dragon reborn. i’m here for a reason. he’s here for a reason. to me, he must be rand. because rand can be trusted, while the dragon reborn must be feared.” ❤️❤️❤️

“she looked at him and remembered the youth that he had been. the earnest young man. not solemn like perrin, but not wild like mat. solid, straightforward. the type of man you could trust with anything. even the fate of the world.” ❤️❤️❤️

overall, the reunion was far more positive than i had feared! egwene’s recent empathy for and understanding of rand has carried through to seeing him again in person, and Jesus Rand was very calm and respectful of egwene’s authority and of being in her center of power. the only snag was that rand told her he’s going to break the seals and needs her help, and egwene understandably thinks that’s a horrible idea (especially since rand was just like “we’re gonna break the seals and replace them, but i have no idea how to do this. figure it out by next month. bye!” lmao no wonder egwene is skeptical). could be setting up for a larger clash later. but i’m excited at the prospect of male and female channelers fiiiiinally working together!! the dragon reborn and the amyrlin seat!! my foils and co-protagonists!! and oooh egwene knows how to make cuendillar so maybe she can make new seals for the prison when they clear away the old ones!

“‘[rand] might be persuaded [against breaking the seals] by people that he trusts.’ or he might be forced to change his mind if confronted by a large enough group united to stop him. it was now more vital that she speak with elayne and nynaeve.” bold of you to assume that the narrative will ever grant elayne 5 minutes to talk to rand, egwene 😔

“‘but the witches are evil!’ ‘perhaps,’ galad said. once, he might have denied that. but listening to the other Children, and considering what those at tar valon had done to his sister, was making him think he might be too soft on the aes sedai.” forget what i said about liking galad, he sucks actually. he had his day in the sun when he killed valda and then immediately squandered my affections.

“the questioners are at fault.” “part of the blame is theirs. but it is also because those who would do evil look with disgust and resentment upon those who stand for what is right.” oh, there i was thinking galad was about to admit that the non-questioner whitecloaks also share blame, but no, of course, it is the fault of evildoers who resent them for being so pure and good! once again, coming from my show-first impression of whitecloaks, it’s just sickening to read a “good” guy saying this shit about them and believing it wholeheartedly.

and he has THE NERVE to cite helpful lessons from morgase when he knows full well that the whitecloaks see her as a darkfriend!!!

“we follow no queen or king.” “yes, and that frightens monarchs. i grew up in the court of andor. i know how my mother regarded the Children.” i think. maybe. just a hypothesis. but MAYBE morgase hated the whitecloaks because they are dedicated to persecuting women like her and her daughter, not just because they don’t report to any monarch. JUST a THOUGHT here, galad.

“my mother was no darkfriend.” “excepting her, of course.” of course galad is not prejudiced against channelers! his mom is a channeler and he likes her, thank you very much! it’s just all the other ones who are darkfriends!

“and yet there was such a thing as being too zealous.” galad saying that about someone else, bitch look in a mirror!

can’t believe GAWYN is the hated trakand boy. his only crime is being kinda dumb! at least he never joined a religious extremist group and grew to genuinely believe all their bullshit! at least he only thinks aes sedai are annoying and untrustworthy, not straight up evil! fuck galad all my homies hate galad. i hope elayne and morgase beat his ass if/when they see him again.

thankfully, we now return to the superior trakand boy. he is investigating a string of murders in the white tower which egwene later reveals are most likely mesaana’s work. gawyn describes a man as handsome without adding “to women” to qualify it #BiGawynRights

the handsome man is the captain of the tower guard who seems hostile to gawyn in a way gawyn doesn’t understand, but then he figures out that the guy feels threatened that gawyn’s gunning for his job and so gawyn takes a moment to let him know, in a subtle way that won’t reveal gawyn’s noticed he’s insecure or anything, that all he wants is to be egwene’s warder. respectful king!

“gawyn forced himself to keep his temper. once, that hadn’t been nearly so hard.” rand parallels!

speaking of rand, “in his heart, gawyn wanted to meet al’thor with sword in hand and ram steel through him, dragon reborn or not.” [michael scott voice] that’s what she said. “al’thor would rip you apart with the one power, he told himself. you’re being foolish, gawyn trakand. his hatred of al’thor continued to smolder anyway.” smoooooolder. i want you all to know that gawyn is smoooooldering and unable to think straight on account of rand. gawyn wants his Homoerotic Duel with rand so bad and yet if/when they actually meet rand’s just gonna be like “aw hello brother-in-law!” and not care at all. funniest dynamic in the world.

i suppose i can see why people think the gawyn romance is a waste of egwene’s time and only hinders the Hot Girl Shit she’s trying to accomplish, but i for one enjoy it and find it very interesting! i like seeing a different side to our resident Career Woman, seeing how she struggles to balance her personal and professional lives. heart vs. duty is a theme i’m all about! i agree that not every character and particularly not every female character needs a love interest, but i also hate the modern-day fandom narrative (not necessarily WOT fandom, but in general) that Strong Female Characters™ are made less by having love interests. and like, it is so clearly gawyn who is egwene’s love interest and not the reverse jkfjg so that’s excellent. and also, after seeing how SOME characters in this series just roll over for their love interest and become an entirely different person to please them (sideeyes min and mat), it’s refreshing to see egwene and gawyn both refusing to compromise on who they are and what they want, even if it would make getting into a relationship with the other person easier. so much of this is exactly what we could and should have gotten with rand and elayne, with all their political clashes and sometimes-conflicting duties and burdens of leadership and issues of wearing one face in private and another in public (“the amyrlin cannot be served by those who refuse to see her authority” “but isn’t it important to have people who know you for yourself and not the title?”), so i’m glad to get it here since i was deprived of it for randlayne.

graendal is now hiding out in a dank cave. “everyone knew that graendal could not stand a lack of luxury. that was true. but the best part about being predictable was that it allowed you to do the unexpected.” once again i am saying that graendal is the stealth most competent and dangerous forsaken (except for moridin i guess). female characters who make everyone think they’re just dumb bimbos but are secretly incredibly cunning are my kryptonite! unfortunate for rand that he didn’t actually kill her, but story-wise i’m glad a bad bitch didn’t go down so easily and anticlimactically!

graendal talking about the Pain Of Soul that rand’s balefiring of the whole fortress will cause him: “semirhage had been corrupt to the bone from the start. but others of them had taken different paths to the shadow, including ishamael. she could see the memories, so distant, in moridin’s eyes...yes, he knew exactly what al’thor was feeling.” is this a crumb of Ishamael Tragic Backstory???? man i reeeaaaaaally hope the show does a lot more with forsaken backstories and actually shows us what they were like before they became evil, and especially their friendships with lews therin and the pain of that betrayal. i want my feelings to be hurt!

“it will break al’thor, ruin him, if he loses aybara.” aww even the shadow knows they’re besties 🥺

“during the first weeks following her silent abdication, she’d hoped to find a way to return to andor, so she could be a resource for elayne. however, the more she’d considered it, the more she’d realized that she had to stay away. everyone in andor had to assume that morgase was dead. each queen had to make her own way, and elayne might seem a puppet to her own mother if morgase returned. beyond that, morgase had made many enemies before leaving.” noooooo i need my full morgase-elayne-gawyn reunion!!!! (i have rescinded galad's invite to the family reunion, and he doesn’t deserve to be rand’s brother either)

it’s so heartbreaking that morgase still has no idea that gaebril was a forsaken and that she was under compulsion, and thinks just the same as everyone else that she only became a fool for a man

lan being followed by the other borderlanders nynaeve sent after him:

“trollocs in the two rivers?” it’s more likely than you think

we’re setting up to finally resolve perrin vs. the whitecloaks and i truly could not care less. oh, i should mention that perrin’s had quite a bit of pov so far and i just haven’t commented on it bc i have absolutely nothing to say about it jkfg i know some people love the wolf stuff but i was never into it, to me perrin’s wolves and whitecloaks plotlines are just about as boring as the faile kidnapping plotline.

number of women whom mat, in this one chapter alone, spends a paragraph describing how hot they are and then hastily reassuring us that he has no interest in them since he’s a married man now and claiming that he’s only checking them out in order to be a wingman for various friends who aren’t even with him at the moment: 4. he’s gonna cheat on tuon so fast it’s unreal, and good for him

“mat would have given her his best smile - there was not a woman he had met who did not melt for his best smile” not mat doing the exact same thing he complains that elayne allegedly always does! i love it

“he had sent word to [elayne] but had not gotten a reply. how was that for gratitude? by his count, he had saved her life twice. once should have been enough to reduce her to tears and kisses, but he had not seen even a peck on the cheek. not that he wanted one.” JSKDJFGK mat is SO desperate for kisses from elayne!! and so sulky that he has yet to receive any! don’t worry mat, she AND rand are very appreciative of you and will both give you so many kisses when you see them again.

“there was no avoiding royalty now! not for him. at least tuon was pretty. and good at playing stones. and very keen of wit, good for talking to” mat, have you considered: elayne is all of those things as well and also has the advantage of not being evil? also lmao at mat claiming tuon is good to talk to??? footage not found

“that siege was over now, and a new queen - the right queen - held the throne.” mat would have been elayne’s #1 supporter and her loyal captain-general i’m so mad!!

“for once, there had been a battle and he had missed it...an entire war had been fought over the lion throne, and not one arrow, blade, or spear had entered the conflict seeking matrim cauthon’s heart.” now you’re just rubbing it in that mat Should Have Been part of that plotline but wasn’t!

mat and thom are wondering who could possibly make them a gateway to the tower of ghenjei if verin doesn’t come back. elayne is right here! you know she can make gateways! tho of course at the current moment elayne hasn’t replied to mat’s letters and he’s fretting that she might never invite him to talk to her.

“for an aes sedai, i kind of like verin” awww mat!

“talking to [norry, who’d given the band permission to camp near caemlyn] meant elayne knew mat was here. she had to. but she had sent no greetings, no acknowledgment that she owed mat her skin.” mat is so desperate to see her!

“he had a slight fondness for teslyn, against his better judgment” “‘remember, should you ever come to the white tower, you do have women there who are in your debt, matrim cauthon. i do not forget.’ he took [teslyn’s] hand. it felt as bony as it looked, but it was warmer than he had expected. some aes sedai had ice running in their veins, that was for certain. but others were not so bad.” awww mat! and he offers her extra horses after having made a big stink about not giving the aes sedai extra horses in the last book! it’s a shame the aes sedai are leaving just when mat’s attitude towards them has become bearable lmao

and teslyn weaves air to fly mat out of the gholam’s reach (he’d taken off his medallion to try hitting the gholam with it) and he’s not even That scared about being touched by the power!

the gholam: [threatens to kill tuon] me: oh my god PLEASE do

mat mourns and feels guilty for the band members who died because the gholam was trying to get to him, and they aren’t even women!

“[one of joline’s warders] always seemed to be looking for someone to murder; each conversation with him was an interview to see if you fit the criteria.” LMAO sanderson’s mat does come up with the best descriptions of people

“are you going to swear at [elayne] too?” “of course i am. how else is she going to trust that [the letter] is really from me?” true love ❤️❤️

perrin’s asha’man are learning how to link with aes sedai. “grady had mentioned that creating a circle this way seemed to require the men to gain control over the women.” of course it does 🙄 why? literally give me one good reason why saidin-saidar circles would only work with a man in control.

“‘my lord, the taint is gone. i’m not going to go mad. that means...well, i always had a reason to fight. but now i’ve got a reason to live, too.’ looking into the man’s eyes, perrin understood. what must it have been like? knowing that you’d eventually go mad and need to be executed. likely by your friends, who would call it a mercy. that was what perrin had sensed in the asha’man all along, the reason they held themselves apart, often seeming so somber. everyone else fought for life. the asha’man...they’d fought to die. that’s how rand feels, perrin thought.” 😭😭😭 once again i am saying No, You’re Wrong, Non-Min-And-Nynaeve Characters Do Care About Rand Actually, They Just Aren’t Allowed To Spend Time With Him

“bornhald looked at him. ‘it is you. the light has delivered you to us.’ ‘unless it has also delivered you an army three or four times the size of the one you have now,’ perrin called, ‘then i doubt very much that it will matter.’” JSKDFJ perrin’s best clapback to date

perrin, upon seeing galad, who makes every single person who’s ever laid eyes on him swoon, whom mat straight up said was as pretty as a girl: “most women would probably call him handsome.” PROBABLY. perrin really is the most heterosexual character in the book hjdkfg

yes i know mat calling galad as pretty as a girl (this was back in tdr) was meant as a sexist insult and not mat thinking galad was as attractive to him as a girl would be..............but was it really though?

ELAYNE!!!!! RETURN OF THE QUEEN!!!!! RECALLED AS SHOUTING THANK GOD IT IS MY WIFE!!!!!!

talking about the imprisoned nobles who opposed elayne: “‘you could execute them,’ birgitte said. they both [elayne and dyelin] stared at her. ‘what?’ birgitte said.” birgitte: do you want me to kill that guy for you? because it sounds like he sucks and i will totally kill that guy for you

elayne is going to move on the sun throne! she explains later in the chapter that she’s worried about rand creating an empire and a successor coming up to claim it and keep it whole should he die in the last battle, in which case andor would be surrounded by the seanchan empire + rand’s successor’s empire + the borderlanders, hence elayne wants to hold cairhien herself to prevent this sort of Dragon Empire from happening. these are the kind of things that would be FASCINATING conflicts to see in rand and elayne’s personal relationship and yet we are completely deprived! why the fuck don’t we EVER get to see the two of them dealing with stuff like this? such a waste.

“in one step i could become one of the most powerful monarchs since artur hawkwing.” Good For Her!

“‘if someone is going to go out of her way to insult me, then i at least want to be aware of it. if only so that i know whom to behead later on.’ norry paled. ‘figuratively, master norry.’” jkdjfjg i love her. also, the norry-mistress harfor-essande holy trinity have gotta be my favorite tertiary characters i’d say (lini too, but i feel like she’s a slight step above tertiary, tho not quite secondary)

elayne receives mat’s letter!!! the letter is another example of “sure it’s a dumbing down of rj’s mat but it’s hilarious so i don’t care” and also it confirms that mat thinks elayne has a great ass which he “hardly ever spent any time looking at” and this is the most important piece of canon information i have ever received. then birgitte tells us that mat also has a great ass, which is the second most important piece of canon information i have ever received.

hi i’m mat i’m 19 and i never learned how to fucking read. lmao no but show!mat especially i COULD totally buy not being good at spelling words. show!mat i could buy not knowing how to read or write at all, there are definitely not any books in the show!cauthon household! book!mat however did previously write a perfectly good note to elayne in acos so inconsistency yes yes on the other hand that note iirc WAS transcribed in his own pov so maybe he just thought he was spelling everything right. also, i think it would be great if mat gained like beautiful formal old tongue writing ability with his past memories but still just does not fucking know how to spell anything in his own language dkfjg

anyway, elayne’s reaction to the letter and learning that mat escaped ebou dar and is ok and is now in andor: “so many emotions and questions welled up in her. birgitte stood upright, frowning, feeling the emotions. ‘elayne? what is it? did the man insult you?’ elayne found herself nodding, tears forming in her eyes. birgitte cursed, striding over. master norry looked taken aback, as if regretting that he’d brought the letter. elayne burst into laughter.” 😭😭😭❤️❤️❤️ SHE IS SO EMOTIONAL AND SO HAPPY she loves mat so much!!!!!

elayne is arranging a meeting with mat!!! matlayne reunion is imminent!!!!

“mat is...a particularly dynamic individual. he can be very useful when properly harnessed. when he is not - which is most of the time - he can be an outright disaster.” jdkjfg elayne knows her man

elayne is thinking about how useful mat and the band will be to her and hoping to use them to take cairhien! this is exactly what i’ve been fucking saying! he should’ve been here all along!!

“elayne loved [rand]. but she didn’t intend to see andor become merely another part of the dragon’s empire.” “the woman in her cringed to think of planning for rand’s death, but the queen could not be so squeamish. the world was changing.” 👏👏👏 and again, so similar to egwene’s heart vs. duty conflicts with gawyn but elayne is never given the opportunity to actually explore these WITH rand. because for some godforsaken rand was stuck with the one girlfriend who offers him nothing interesting narratively speaking.

speaking of, we go from elayne to TWO (2) chapters IN A ROW of min pov which is a crime against me. but i know rand’s plotline is small in this book and i assume min won’t do shit at the last battle, so hopefully i won’t have to put up with her too much for the rest of the series.

nynaeve: “i knew rand al’thor, and the boy still inside him. the man he’s become frightens me. i always told him he needed to grow up. and then...and then he did.” 😭😭

alanna has vanished after receiving a note with a red seal. another of verin’s little mystery scavenger hunt notes she’s just been sending out all over the continent?? maybe this one said that alanna has to attend the cauthor wedding that verin is setting up so she hastened off to the venue verin gave in the letter.

“min had long ago tossed aside all sense of decorum for her towering sheepherder.” yeah i fucking know min. also, i kept forgetting to say this before, i’m so annoyed that sheepherder became min’s thing for rand because it was originally LAN’S thing! how dare you stand where he stood etc.

“it let her see a part of him that others were never allowed.” not like he has 2 other allegedly equal partners or anything, min. elayne and avi think about each other’s relationship with rand frequently and sometimes min’s as well, but in her own pov min truly does not EVER think about elayne and avi or acknowledge that they’re part of the relationship unless they are standing right in front of her forcing her to acknowledge it. she really does see herself as rand’s one Real partner.

rand fiiiiiiiinally seems like he’s actually going to treat the maidens as capable warriors and let them fight for him and tell them when he’s planning to go somewhere and let them come with him if they wish! this SHOULD have happened after sulin’s awesome speech to him back in book fucking 5, but better late than never i suppose

“i do think you need some new insults, however. the ones you use are wearing out like last year’s lace.” hksjhdkfjg Jesus Rand is so bitchy, love that for him.

rand needs min to figure out callandor. is this going to become min’s second (2nd) contribution in 14 800-page books? (with the first being helping siuan escape) also like. why is she qualified to be the person figuring this out. she doesn’t know shit about channeling or ter’angreal! elayne should be doing this!

rand pardons cadsuane. cadsuane says “i trust you see the error in your deed. it strikes me as unsuitable that i should need ‘forgiveness’ or a ‘pardon’ in the first place.” so clearly she has learned absolutely nothing and not changed in any way. what was the POINT of her??? is The Thing she taught rand just that she brought tam to him which led to him learning to laugh and cry again? anyone could’ve done that! literally anyone! tho i SUPPOSE rand wouldn’t have gotten paranoid and tried to attack tam if he hadn’t been sent by someone rand was so mistrustful of. so then cadsuane’s purpose was to be so fucking bad at mentoring rand that she made him mistrust her enough to attack his own father upon hearing he talked to her lmao

“[the nobles] looked oddly out of place in the stone’s courtyard, where everyone else had a purpose.” okay i KNOW min did NOT just shit on OTHER PEOPLE for being useless 💀💀

“she’d never been fond of those who thought themselves more important than everyone else.” hey sorry was it not just last book when you were thinking about how you were the most important person in rand’s life because you’re The Only One Who Knows Him And Sees Him? and how you’re superior in this regard to his close friend who has known him since he was born? and are you not constantly acting like you’re rand’s one “real” partner despite being in a poly relationship?

weiramon is a darkfriend???? shit!!!! never saw THAT coming! after all the times rand was bitchy about how stupid he is jdkfjgh

we just saw tam in ghealdan with perrin but now he’s in tear with rand. i get that the timelines of the 2 plotlines aren’t synced up (perrin, mat, and elayne are still in TGS time) so it’s not confusing or anything to keep track of that, it’s just weird lmao. but i don’t know what else sanderson could’ve done - clearly there was way too much remaining material to allow for wrapping rand’s, egwene’s, perrin’s, and mat’s pre-last-battle-plotlines all up in a single book, but if he’d told all 4 plotlines concurrently across 2 books then TGS would’ve just ended halfway thru 4 different plotlines with no real resolution to anything, which would’ve been lame (i mean. not that rj didn’t do that frequently jkfjg)

“rand - who had faced forsaken without a tremor - was afraid of his father. rand took the last few steps in two sudden strides and grabbed tam in an embrace. he stood one step down, which brought them near an equal height. in fact, in that posture, tam almost seemed a giant, and rand but a child who was clinging to him. there, holding to his father, the dragon reborn began to weep. ... ‘i’m sorry father,’ he whispered. ‘i’m so sorry.’ ‘it’s all right, son. it’s all right.’ ‘i’ve done so much that is terrible.’ ‘nobody walks a difficult path without stumbling now and again. it didn’t break you when you fell. that’s the important part.’ rand nodded. they held each other for a time.” 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

absolute crime that that moment was from min’s pov instead of rand’s

and now rand introduces min to tam as someone who is very special to him. what do you want to fucking bet that rand is never going to even mention to tam that he has 2 other girlfriends and that neither elayne nor avi are ever going to get to meet tam and that he’s never going to have any idea that their babies are his grandchildren 🙄😤

in the tel’aran’rhiod hall of the tower: “there, set into the glass below the flame of tar valon, was a large segment in the shape of the dragon’s fang. that wasn’t part of the original window...did this window represent one of those, another world where dragon and amyrlin ruled tar valon side by side?” it’s about yin and yang it’s about balance it’s about two sides of one coin it’s about two parts of one whole!!!! it’s about rand and egwene being foils and co-protagonists!! earlier during the linking scene the asha’man said that he felt Whole while channeling both saidin and saidar together.........there was that thing rand heard about “the two must become one”..............what if the endgame will be the one power becoming whole instead of split into saidin and saidar, and everybody can channel both uniformly??? like how the true power isn’t divided. rj did love his gender essentialism so i’m skeptical that this will Really happen, but i wish it would!

egwene tells nynaeve that the seanchan attacked the tower and nynaeve just. does not ask for any details or have any followup questions lmao

awww egwene asks nynaeve for advice on how to handle being in a position of authority as a very young person whom people don’t respect as a superior, since nynaeve was in that situation as wisdom ❤️❤️ full circle moment! and through this conversation the two of them are finally able to reach an understanding about egwene outranking nynaeve, a role reversal they’ve both been struggling to handle ever since book 2. we love to see it!

elayne arrives too and i finally have my full wondergirl reunion!!!!! “you did it, egwene! we’re whole again!” a line later i realized elayne was talking about the tower being whole again, but my first and preferred interpretation was the wondergirls being whole again 😭😭❤️❤️

they make chairs to sit on and elayne makes herself a throne dkfjg i love her your honor. and egwene sits in the amyrlin seat but nynaeve just a regular chair: “nynaeve looked from one throne to another, obviously dissatisfied. maybe that was why she’d resisted these meetings for so long; egwene and elayne had risen so far.” aww baby! it’s okay you’re the queen of malkier now actually!

elayne about rand: “he’s awakened. he’s warm now.” ❤️❤️ then she tries to brush the words off as just some dumb thing that popped out, but egwene’s already been suspecting for a while that she’d bonded him and this just confirms it. “why didn’t she wish to speak of it?” because what would have been a very nice randlayne solo bond turned into an illegal 3-way bond that elayne did all the work for so that min could reap all the rewards 😤

nynaeve finally finds out elayne is pregnant! if she sees rand again this book and neglects to tell him i will call sooooo much bullshit! god it would’ve been SO easy to just throw in a line of elayne saying “don’t tell rand, i want to tell him myself” or something so that it could justify why So Many people know of elayne’s pregnancy and are in a position to tell rand but just have not done so lmao

“light! i didn’t think i’d let rand out of my sight long enough for that. when did it happen?” nynaeve did you forget the time in caemlyn when elayne whisked him away to ~speak privately~ and you didn’t see him again for many hours

“nynaeve generally did see the right way things needed to be done, so long as that right way didn’t involve her being wrong.” jdkfjg my beloved

elayne continues to get out of swearing the three oaths by saying what if it’s dangerous to do while pregnant lmao good for her

so much love for nynaeve repeatedly saying that rand will be completely unattended (but for cadsuane) if she leaves him. i know she’s only referring to aes-sedai-interests-wise, but also, i’m choosing to interpret that min doesn’t count for shit in her mind. as it should be!

not nynaeve slamming elayne for spending the last few months “mooning about and dreaming of rand al’thor” when elayne is the only goddamn person (besides egwene) who has done ANYTHING for the past several books, and NYNAEVE is the one who’s had no plotline but fussing over rand since like book 7! nynaeve really was sidelined beyond belief in the second half of the series after being one of the strongest players in the first half.

update: nynaeve just figured out how to Heal madness!!! she is back in the game! “i can’t let myself begin to think that nothing i do matters. that’s what the dark one wants.” ❤️

nynaeve has a convo with rand and does NOT tell him that elayne’s pregnant SMH!!!! maaaaaaybe she assumes he already knows? or maybe we’re meant to assume that offscreen elayne did ask her not to tell him? or, good god, are we meant to believe that nynaeve is actually trying to mind her own business for once? but fuck man i should not have to do these mental gymnastics to justify somebody neglecting to tell her best friend that his long-distance girlfriend whom he hasn’t seen in months and may never see again, and who is also her best friend, is pregnant. i mean, this is nynaeve! rand AND elayne both trust her implicitly! if anybody was going to play messenger about the pregnancy it should be her!

anyway, rand tells nynaeve about how she shouldn’t let the white tower “ruin” her because she’s Better than all of them due to having visible emotions, which i’ve seen quoted often as an empowering quote for nynaeve or as a nice tribute to her and rand’s relationship, but tbh i find the whole thing fairly condescending and irritating. i wouldn’t want nynaeve to change either but there’s no need to pull a Not Like Other Girls Aes Sedai about it. just because people care differently than you do or don’t emote visibly doesn’t mean that they don’t care at ALL, rand! “moiraine cared. you could see it in her, even when she was calm.” i mean yeah and you only got to realizing that about her after knowing her very well for a very long time. have you considered that the “emotionless” aes sedai you’ve only met in passing are actually the same way and you just don’t know them very well?

maybe i chugged TOO much White Tower Propaganda Juice during egwene’s plotline last book jkfjgh but this passage just got my goat!

rand says that the two women he’ll use callandor with will be definitely nynaeve, and then PERHAPS aviendha or elayne. PER FUCKING HAPS!!! they are, allegedly, rand’s committed partners to whom he is PSYCHICALLY BONDED and he can literally feel all their emotions, yet he only PERHAPS considers them among his most trusted saidar users????? you fucking know that if min could channel he would’ve listed her as a shoe-in. I HATE IT HERE!!!! it’s so true that the bonding changed absolutely nothing about rand’s behavior or mindset. like, you would THINK that the average warder would consider his aes sedai his #1 most trusted saidar user!

narratively speaking i would love it if the other woman ended up being egwene and we got her, rand, and nynaeve all doing the callandor thingy together, but idk how likely that is

nynaeve describes rand’s madness as “thousands upon thousands of the tiny black thorns pricked into his brain, but beneath them was a brilliant white lacing of something. a white radiance, like liquid power. light given form and life.” interesting. so he WAS really going saidin-mad for real (not just normal trauma reactions) but the epiphany put a bandaid on it? how? what does it mean? what does it all mean? maybe we will find out more later, but for now my mood is “not to be a lazy reader who expects to have all the information handed to me but considering how hugely important rand’s whole mental health situation is to the story, i wish it would be explained a little better and more clearly” lmao

“i will need to send someone [to the black tower]” oh my god no SHIT rand jkfjgh they’ve been running rampant and unsupervised for 7 books despite NUMEROUS warnings you’ve received about how bad the situation is getting!

egwene discusses mesaana with some of the black ajah hunters, two of whom (saerin and seaine) are on my Mesaana Disguise Suspicion List i think, tho frankly i can never keep track of all the minor aes sedai so who knows. i hope it’s saerin so that “‘from what i’ve been able to learn about her,’ saerin said, ‘mesaana was good at preparation. she excelled at it.’” will turn out to be the meme of obama giving himself a medal jdkfjg saerin DOES seem to know an awful lot about mesaana’s personality and motivations despite claiming she could only find “tales, rumors, and whispers”.................

i appreciate that faile (like many characters) shows growth and self-awareness and regret/embarrassment over her past behavior under sanderson’s pen, but i feel like she’s doing that FAR more than any of the other characters and it’s starting to feel like the author breaking the fourth wall and being like “i know faile was the series’ most despised character up to this point and i’m trying so hard to fix that” which is annoying because, while she certainly had her bad moments, i still loved her and felt the fandom hatred of her WAY overblown and unfair.

“what would the two rivers folk do if he stepped down as their lord?” go back to the way things were when they were just fine without a lord for many generations, probably. i mean i get that they need a stronger government system now that there’s been a population boom with so many people coming to live there from other regions, but couldn’t they just invent a beefed up version of the women’s circle and village council or something instead of going straight to feudalism?

faile gives us some saldaean marriage culture information (the shanna’har anniversary celebration) and also shares the anniversary-esque tradition that tam told her he used to do with his wife (once a year they packed a picnic and hiked to a new place in the woods and spent the day there together 😭) and i am thriving!! different cultures’ marriage/romance traditions my beloved!!

“how can i feast while my people are being held under threat of execution and while the world itself may die?” “if the world itself is going to die, is this not the time when a man must take time to appreciate what he has? before it is all taken?” faile could’ve done wonders for rand earlier if she’d been around to give him this outlook damn

and then they communicate! they confide in each other! share the secrets and insecurities they’ve been silently worrying about this whole time! “each word spoken made him relax more...in telling her of his struggles, he felt some of his burden lift.” ❤️❤️❤️ WE LOVE TO SEE IT my god how did perrin and faile become the most healthy canon couple jkfjg i guess with the competition being the likes of rand/min and mat/tuon the bar is on the fucking floor. even lan and nynaeve are dishonest with each other more often than not tbh and gawyn and egwene are currently Going Through It (tho they ARE attempting to communicate and just still disagreeing, so points to them for that) and of course rand/elayne and rand/avi don’t ever fuckin see each other so they’re disqualified from even competing here.

“those brotherless had been with the shaido, and they had attacked and killed men under perrin’s protection. no act of kindness would redeem that. they deserved their deaths. that gave him pause. the whitecloaks probably said very similar things about him. but the whitecloaks had attacked first.” FUCKING THANK YOU this one goes out to that one anon who was trying to argue that perrin and hopper were in the wrong for attacking the ~innocent and harmless~ whitecloaks back in eotw. the whitecloaks attacked first!

“‘you, husband, always seem uncomfortable when we yell. i’m very glad you’ve begun to stand up for yourself, as is proper. but i have asked much from you to adapt to my ways. i thought, tonight, i would try to adapt to yours.’ those were words that he had never expected to hear from faile. it seemed the most personal thing she could ever have given him. embarrassingly, he felt tears in his eyes, and he pulled her tight.” ❤️❤️❤️❤️

#wot #wot book spoilers

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lesbianjunimo · 4 years ago

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That time you and your demon boyfriend went viral

hi yes hello obey me fandom!! my name is Gabbi and i have never played a single second of the actual game but i have read enough fanon content for the past year to have this idea swimming around in my head and now i am finally letting this accursed thing out of my brain and putting it in yours

also i’m only doing the brothers because any more than that and i’d have an aneurysm probably. oh and shoutout to @obeythebutler and @beels-burger-babe for inspiring me with their works to feel brave enough to write for this fandom

Lucifer:

You and Lucifer go viral on Asmo’s Devilgram story!

You’re in the kitchen helping Asmo with dinner duty and singing along to one of your playlists of human realm music that you like to show him.

Asmo starts filming your cute little dance while you stir the pot on the stove because you are just adorable!

About ten seconds into him filming, Lucifer appears in the doorway with quite the stern look on his face. You know, the one that comes right before a “MAMMOOOOOON” and strikes fear into the heart of all those with functioning eardrums. That one.

He opens his mouth, presumably to tell y’all to shut the fuck up, but then there’s a lull in the music and the eldest can hear your voice ever so slightly above the song’s vocalist and he freezes.

Man stops in his tracks like someone just smacked him in the face with a midair volleyball.

Asmo can be heard stifling a laugh behind his phone.

Lucifer’s face gets so soft and he almost, almost, loosens his metal-rod-through-the-ass posture before you notice him and give a little wave and ask if you and Asmo were being too loud like the considerate darling you are.

Lucifer clears and his throat and says something like, “No, you aren’t. I was just coming to check on how dinner is coming along,” and leaves, after which Asmo immediately presses the post button.

Screenshots of Lucifer’s heart eyes for you go absolutely viral because every demon on Devilgram goes absolutely feral for seeing the eldest demon brother lose his dignified composure. It becomes a meme template. “Get you someone who looks at you like Lucifer looks at MC” and “me at the delivery demon when he shows up with my spicy bat wings” posts become commonplace. (Asmo thinks the memes are totally worth getting strung up with Mammon for laughing at them.)

Mammon:

Much like Lucifer, you and Mammon end up going viral off Asmo’s Devilgram. (Noticing a pattern here?)

He pulls a silly prank on your asses and honestly I don’t know how you fell for it. But hey, they say “idiots in love” for a reason, so...

You and Asmo are sitting in the common room of the House of Lamentation just chillin. Well, he’s chillin, you’re on the floor studying for an upcoming exam.

The video starts in the middle of a conversation you and the avatar of lust were having.

“No, Asmo,” you say. “Mammon and I don’t use pet names for each other.” Now that’s just a darn lie, and every demon and crow within ten miles of Mammon and you together knows it.

“Really? I find that very hard to believe, MC.~”

You sigh in response to Asmo’s teasing. “Okay, he has a lot for me but I’m just not much of a pet name person, y’know?” The rest of the exchange goes like this:

“Oh, I totally get it.” *pause* “Hey MC, what do human world bees make again?”

“Honey.”

Cue a sheepish Mammon sticking his head in the doorway at the bluntness of your tone when you answered Asmo.

“Yeah, babe?” he looks like a puppy left on the side of a highway oh my god hUG HIM-

Asmo turns the camera back to his smug ass face and in the background you can be heard tripping on the damn carpet trying to get up and hug your mans. (”MAMMON GET OVER HERE SO I CAN HUG YOU” “W-WHAT? I THOUGHT YA WERE MAD AT ME?!?!?!?!”)

Leviathan:

Streamer Levi? Streamer Levi.

You guys go viral the first time you make an appearance on one of Levi’s weekly (insert cool Devildom streaming service name here) streams.

It’s completely unintentional. You had been asking him for weeks to play with him on there, but he’s the avatar of envy after all. He doesn’t like sharing his partner, even if it’s with random strangers who have no real access to you.

However, he has his stream on a Thursday instead of a Friday one week, and you come into his room carrying dinner because 1) You didn’t realize he was streaming and 2) No matter what he was doing, the boy needed to eat. It wasn’t unusual for you to bring him dinner, so you had no idea why he was blushing and stammering even more than usual this time in particular. Boy was speaking in beached whale trying to tell you what was wrong.

Then you notice his screen. Oh! “Hi chat!” You wave, setting Levi’s food down on his desk in front of his keyboard. “M-MC!” He full-on whines, slamming a hand over his mouth afterwards when he remembers his viewers could hear that.

Honestly, they’d meme the fuck out of him if it weren’t for the fact that they are FINALLY SEEING HIS HENRY!!! THE MYSTERIOUS MC!!!

Chat is bombarding you with questions while you make Levi eat dinner. And by make him eat dinner, I mean literally feeding this man forkfuls/spoonfuls while he games because you love how flustered he gets when you do that.

Does it impact his score? Absolutely. Does he care? Not really when you’re pampering him like that.

You start answering chat’s questions about you while he’s chewing so he can’t tell you to stop LMAO-

You’re a natural on stream. The VOD becomes the most popular on Levi’s account in a matter of hours and soon cute highlights compilations of you and him on that stream start making the rounds on Devildom Twitter.

Satan:

There was buildup to Satan going viral, similar to Levi in a way.

Satan does have a Devilgram, but it’s basically a white woman’s Instagram with added book reviews for variety. Unless you’re a reader his account is pretty boring: candles, books, fireplaces, and cats.

However, after you two started reading together fairly often he began posting pictures of your legs draped over his while you sat together. They’d always be captioned with vague ass pretentious literary criticism.

This goes on for months, and he gains a lot of (horny) followers after the leg pics start up. He doesn’t really get why but you both joke that it’s because you have some damn nice legs and I mean neither of you are complaining about the new following.

You two go viral when he finally shows your face, entirely by accident.

The post is a video, which is already strange for him and grabs attention. In it, you’re scoffing and reading an excerpt of a book, mocking its understanding of female anatomy.

“I’m quoting here, Satan: ‘her breasts bouncing around like giant pacmen.’ I’M SORRY?? THAT ISN’T HOW BOOBS WORK SIR. WHY ARE MEN ALLOWED TO WRITE?”

(fun fact that is a very real quote from a very real book I really read last month pls save me)

Originally the camera is focused on your body, with your head out of frame to protect your privacy, but your righteous anger made Satan laugh. Like, a real laugh. The one that makes you and everyone in earshot wonder if he truly was never an angel cause he sure as hell laughs like one but anyway-

When he threw his head back, his DDD angled up just a tad without him noticing, and your face was in view for like .2 seconds. Screenshots of it are making the rounds on Devilgram almost immediately: FINALLY THE LEGS’ OWNER HAS BEEN FOUND.

Satan apologizes profusely but you honestly find it funny and you two opt to just start taking selfies while reading with both of your faces in them from now on.

Asmodeus:

I’m gonna be real with you: you and Asmo go viral all the time. Pretty much everything Asmo posts can be considered viral because of his social media following and his status as one of the seven avatars of sin.

However, there are some fairly cute highlights to be pointed out among the times you were both featured in a post that blew up.

Your favorite is probably that time Asmo livestreamed on of you guys’ ‘Nail Nites,’ as you call them.

You’re both on the floor, doing your nails and kicking your feet back and forth while talking to chat. A lot of the questions are about your relationship, and there’s a lot of flirting back and forth between the two of you.

A particular clip of the stream does blow the fuck up on Devilgram, though, when someone screen records it and posts it with a bunch of heart emojis edited over it.

“’What colors do you think best describe each other?’ Ooo, that’s a good one, chat!” Asmo claps his hands together excitedly, making sure to be careful of his nails.

Pretty much everyone expected you to say pink, but you surprised both your boyfriend and your viewers when, after a pensive few moments, you replied with “Hmm...probably yellow or orange.”

“Can I ask why, darling?” Asmo tilts his head in confusion. I mean, yeah, those colors look good on him, but he doesn’t wear them often so he’s wondering about your thought process.

“Well, in the human world those colors often represent happiness, optimism, and positivity. You’re always the cheerful presence I need in my life when things get hard, so you have the vibe of those colors.”

Asmo proceeds to burst into tears and hug you, messing up both of your nails and prolonging the stream since you both have to start over. But neither of you particularly care.

Fun fact: Asmo has the clip that demon made of that portion of the stream saved on his DDD and watches it whenever he feels sad.

Beelzebub:

Beel and you probably go the most viral out of everybody. Like this moment is an entire phenomenon across the Devildom internet.

It’s a video, or well, multiple videos, taken at the end of a Fangol game that Beel’s team had just won. Everyone is cheering and going crazy, yourself included, and you just really wanted to congratulate your boyfriend.

So, like the rational person you are, you elect to climb up onto the railing of the bleachers and wave to get his attention.

You were absolutely fine up there, and sat all comfortably motioning Beel over to you. He notices, of course, and jogs over, standing right beneath you and looking up. (Back where you were sitting, Mammon is screeching like a hyena in heat and Belphie, who is laying down, has one eye open to glare at him. The youngest knows Beel would never let you hurt yourself; you’re fine.)

A bunch of assorted demons at the game has started filming while you were sat atop the railing since you were rather noticeable. Therefore, there’s a shit ton of different angles of the adorable events that follow:

You slide off the railing, landing right in Beel’s waiting arms bridal style. You’ve got this brilliant smile on your face as you pull his helmet off. None of the DDDs filming can hear it over the crowd noise, but Beel asks you why you just went through all that trouble and you tell him it’s because you wanted to tell him how proud you are.

Soft boy’s chest puffs up and he smiles this big cheesy smile at you reach up to run a hand through his hair. You feel him practically purr at the contact, and with a laugh you pull him in and plant a big ole smooch on him.

The crowd, at least those of them that can see, scream. Everyone is running high on adrenaline and happy emotions; something that cute causes a ruckus!! When you pull away Beel proceeds to put you on his shoulders and you celebrate with him and the rest of his team.

The videos of you two being adorable go completely viral and there are some threads dedicated to stockpiling every single angle taken of the event. Beel is completely oblivious to the attention but you have a lot of them saved on your DDD.

Belphegor:

If you think Belphegor has any sort of social media presence whatsoever then you are sorely mistaken. (Well okay he actually does run some anonymous troll accounts to meme on Lucifer’s posts but that’s neither here nor there-)

Therefore, naturally, you two go viral off of Asmo’s Devilgram.

Okay so someone in the obey me tag the other say headcanoned that Belphie will go out of his way to nap in ridiculous places and my brain really took that and RAN WITH IT.

So what happens is that Belphie will fall asleep in the fucking weirdest places. I’m talking on top of the fridge, underneath the dinner table, on top of bookshelves...you name it, he has slept there, no matter the effort it takes to get there in the first place.

And, ever since you two started dating, you would join him. Sometimes it involved putting yourself at risk of great bodily harm, but the little smile he gave when you he saw you fucking scaling the countertop to reach him made it worth it.

So anyway, since Beel adores the both of you to no end, he takes pictures whenever he sees you two napping together, whether or not it is in a crazy place. He sends these to the family group chat because he thinks they’re adorable.

Over a span of weeks to months, Asmo has built up a stock of images of you and Belphie cuddles up in seemingly impossible places. Once he has about ten or so, he posts a compilation of them to his Devilgram with some cheesy ass caption like “The things we do for love <3″.

They become a meme SO QUICKLY. Like UNBELIEVABLY quickly.

The picture of you and Belphie sleeping on top of a bookshelf, in particular, is a big hit. Memes abound.

“If my girl doesn’t climb up a bookshelf to cuddle my ass, she don’t love me.” “Get yourself a partner who scales bookshelves just to be with your ass.” Etc etc...Belphie doesn’t give a shit but you laugh at a lot of them so he sees that as a good outcome.

#IM SO HAPPY TO HAVE FINALLY WRITTEN THIS #obey me #my writing #obey me headcanons #obey me x reader #lucifer #mammon #leviathan #satan #asmodeus #beelzebub #belphegor #posts

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anthonycrowley · 5 months ago

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it’s like. okay. before i start babbling i want to say that i’m more talking my own interpretations of vonnegut’s books. i’ve read a lot of them and this is something EYE have noticed, but there’s no like, actual concrete source for this because it’s how i personally take his work. it is kind of a common interpretation, i think, but you could easily find people who read his stuff who don’t pick up on it or don’t think it’s important. also i’ve probably talked about this in the past at some point maybe even in the context of spn and chuck but i want to get it all out in a Post now that i personally have completed the show. also people have said this for years i think i just want to apply it to the finale/chuck won theory. okay cool.

okay so like. vonnegut has this thing where he doesn’t really like free will. sometimes it’s more obvious than others but in a weird amount of his books there will at least be a throwaway line where it implies that characters no matter what they do are unable to change their circumstances. which i mean, makes sense, you’re reading a book. but it’s a fascinating way to write and interact with your own characters. i think the most obvious example of this is billy pilgrim, who’s unstuck in time and who’s story is told in a non-linear narrative, so he knows bad things are going to happen and is powerless to stop them,* but i can pull out a bunch of other examples.

(*and YES i know this is also just straight up ptsd and how vonnegut portrayed coming home from the war etc etc i’m not stupid but we are talking about spn and free will as it relates to vonnegut we can talk about spn and wars as it relates to vonnegut later i guess)

and we start getting vonnegut parallels to chuck almost as soon as he’s introduced - he says his book is vonnegutesque and compares himself to kilgore trout in his first episode. people love to pull this quote out in relation to dean, but the parallel to chuck i think is more important because it actually sets up how he acts for the rest of the fucking series. trout, if you haven’t read vonnegut, is a failed sci-fi writer who also acts as the author stand in, which should be obvious from the quote lol.

now, in vonnegut’s works, trout is not god. he flits in and out of stories, and he plays different levels of importance, but he’s not usually the writer of the story itself, and he doesn’t have the ability to change the outcome of the entire story, or at least not more than any other character in the novels. he’s also definitely not exactly vonnegut himself - he changes appearances too much, was originally based off of someone else, and technically met vonnegut once, so like, he’s not exactly. but most people agree that as time went on vonnegut used him more as an alter ego within his stories. so in vonnegut’s work, kilgore trout is not actually an author avatar all powerful god who controls all of the characters in the narrative and does not believe in free will masquerading as a failed genre writer. that is just taking kurt vonnegut literary theories and throwing them in a blender. that would be ridiculous.

but also. like. fun question. what if he was?

and i’m not saying this is on purpose or even something anyone made a conscious decision about. i know enough about the everything regarding supernatural that i don’t really believe they would be able to keep a consistent narrative for something that subtle through that many seasons and writers. but i do think that comparison to vonnegut in general and kilgore trout in particular is integral to understanding chuck as a character and as a result supernatural’s universe. and they say that to us in his first episode. practically his first appearance.

anyway. if this is how you read the character - a true author insert who does not believe in free will for his characters in any form - do you really think at the end of the story he doesn’t already know what’s written? we already know he lies. i think he was simply lying about being surprised about what comes next.

anyway. yeah. personally i’m believing chuck won.

so it goes.

guys what if i posted some kurt vonnegut/spn crossover content. for the girlies.

#anyway i’m also thinking of doing a Post with some quotes and screenshots but i need to think about the quotes and screenshots to use. um.#my post #rb #text #mobi #maggie finishes spn

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angomay · 3 years ago

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Please do talk more about Ryuunosuke's arm guard and the stuff you found out while researching it

Ah! Well, Ryunosuke’s arm guard is never explained in game (or out of), and I don’t believe it’s ever commented upon, either? So it’s hard to know it’s exact purpose, or why Ryunosuke is so insistent on wearing it (even in his DLC outfit, where he sheds Kazuma’s armband, instead). The official art book gives us a reason for its existence, visually speaking; but no character driven one, as far as I know.

From what I’ve seen there are three possible things it could be (well… technically two, IMO, but I’ll get to that soon enough). I touched upon this in my last post, but I’ll go into a bit more detail this time.

1.) A kyudo arm guard.

This is the most popular assumption. However, I believe it’s the most unlikeliest of the three.

[ID: Official concept art of Ryunosuke Naruhodo. He is wearing traditional Japanese clothing and two arm guards. He is looking to the side, holding up a bow used for kyudo. End ID]

The biggest reason why I don’t believe it’s a kyudo arm guard is this image here; this is the only time we’ve ever seen him with a bow… and he’s using a separate armguard! This isn’t a definitive clue, per se — there’s a possibility that armguard could be for something else entirely, but then… why include it in this sketch specifically?

However, I will admit that a kyudo armguard wouldn’t be entirely out of place for Ryunosuke. Armguards are typically used by beginners — which Ryunosuke may very well be. He’s said to be bad at archery (while stationary), so it would make sense for him to use an armguard. However, since there’s so little connecting him to archery… I just don’t think this is the case.

(Side note: This sketch is also the foundation for my “Left-handed Ryu” theory… but I’ll save that for another time.)

So, onto the more likelier candidates:

2.) A kendo armguard.

[ID: An arm modeling a kendo armguard, shown from above. End ID]

The biggest factor here is how well it visually matches. I’m aware armguards are wont to look similar, no matter their purpose, but this is the closest resemblance I’ve seen. It would also connect extremely well to the most outstanding part of Ryunosuke’s design: Karuma.

Though I will admit, I’m not entirely sure about this one, either. The main reason I started considering this as a possibility is because the localization director mentions kendo directly when speaking about Ryunosuke’s bracer.

My biggest issue with this explanation is the same as kyudo; there’s so little connecting him to either sport, making it strange to include it in his design (especially when it’s one of the few aspects that are meant to help him stand out — but more on that later). The fact remains, however, that he probably did take up kendo and kyudo (especially with having Kazuma for a friend), so it’s not entirely implausible.

3.) A tekou.

Finally, there’s a tekou.

[ID: An arm modeling a tekou, shown from above. End ID]

This is the most fitting, in my opinion, and what I lean towards the most. A tekou is a traditional Japanese armguard that is worn for travel and work. It makes sense that something included with the sole purpose of distinguishing his design would be related to travel, since a lot of Ryunosuke’s character is built upon his status as an exchange student. It’s also much more logical, since, well… we never see Ryunosuke practice archery or sword fighting in either game. This post here goes more into a bit more depth about it, if you’re interested.

Now! That’s all well and good — I can sit here and talk all day about what it might or might not be. But in truth, it wasn’t really meant to mean much at all. It exists only to help differentiate his design from any other university student of the time, and to help draw attention to his objection sprite. Here’s the official quote from the art book (curtesy of this post):

“TakumiD actually told me that he wanted the guard taken away many times over, but since it was one part I couldn't compromise in the design sense, I fought hard to keep it (LOL). I considered that the arm guard would help emphasize the "finger point" signature pose; it would avoid having Ryuunosuke look like a normal student character without the Japanese sword; and it was an insurance to maintain the atmosphere of that period.”

So! Yeah. That’s about it. I’m still no closer to an answer. I don’t think I ever will be, either, because it doesn’t matter. It’s just a design quirk. Either way, thank you for letting me yell about it! It’s been driving me crazy for the past two days, and now google thinks I’m in the market for a kendo armguard. The things I do for DGS.

#TLDR; it’s (probably) a tekou #either that or a kendo armguard #head in hands. i’m still not the meta mutual if you couldn’t tell #anyway. if any of this is wrong please feel free to correct me #and if there’s something obvious i’m missing please feel free to beat my ass in the replies. the tags. my inbox even #whatever floats your boat #asks #anon

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babylyctor · 4 years ago

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can John actually control time or am i making things up? trying to reach a conclusion via tumblr posting

so as a theory this is 75% vibes. however there’s some things in the books that give me pause, and i wanted to put together all those bits and see if there’s something there. i’m not totally on board with this idea because it seems too complex to leave entirely to the last book, and i don’t know how it could fit with the rest of the narrative (or do i?) but in any case i keep thinking about it so here’s this way too long post. spoliers for everything

first, this fucking suspicious sentence that’s one of the first things John tells Harrow (Chapter 2, HtN)

"I would let you come back, bit by bit, until you felt entirely ready to wake up. I can’t. I mastered Death, Harrowhark; I wish I’d done the smarter thing and mastered Time. I have to ask you to get ready soon, and so I am going to show you something I hope might … trigger your readiness.”

so this sounds like a really dull complaint on this immortal god’s part but also i don’t trust a single thing out of this man’s mouth, and this would be the exact kind of private joke he would make if he had actually mastered Time (capitalized) too. Also the context in which it’s said, talking about Harrow coming back from her coma, regaigning consciousness, awakening... you get it, oddly relevant theme wise.

then there’s the whole Soup Moment (Chapter 25, HtN), in which John seems to actually stop time maybe? i have doubts about this so lets see what our narrator tells us;

And God said, “Stop.”

The world slowed down. Augustine and Mercymorn stopped, arrested in the act of half-rising from their seats. Ianthe stopped, left arm paused, outflung, to shield her face. You stopped, sitting upright in your chair: your bones somehow rigid and still, and your flesh chilly and rigid around those bones. The shrapnel spray from the Saint of Duty did not stop, [...] But what remained of him stopped too, half man, half rupture—his prurient details hot and white, naked insides clothed with the sinus-drying burst of the power of God.

so here John freezes all the lyctors in place, they’re still conscious, or at least Harrow is, but they have their range of movement almost totally restricted. this is not like Mercy pinching Harrow’s dorsal nerve to paralyze her, this is a completely different feeling, maybe John’s thalergetic powers? it would make sense, all the lyctors are living bodies, they have thalergy and Johs is able to manipulate that, presumably. the bits of Gideon OG cascading down the table don’t stop but that might be John selectively using his powers, or it might be that that’s no longer living flesh.

so we’re saying this could just be John’s super special thalergy magic and nothing else. the first problem though is that technically he shouldn’t be able to use it against his lyctors without touching them, thanks to lyctoral invisibility. in fact when he explodes Mercy’s chest (rip in peace queen) he expressely reaches out and touches her to do so, because presumably he needs to make contact with a body in order to use magic against it, same as Mercy. so that’s a caveat, then there are these descriptions from the same Soup Moment;

You stared down the table at him: at the blank, remote faces of your two nominal teachers—at the frozen ivory stillness of Ianthe, her hair now whitish pink—at space outside the window, where the asteroids themselves seemed to hang in tranquilized arrest.

The Emperor of the Nine Houses stood. The spell, whatever it had been, dropped like a white sun setting.

These seem to imply certain ambiguity. John’s God and all that but i don’t think thalergetic magic should be able to affect asteroids, lifeless space rocks. of course it says they “seem” to hang in tranquilized arrest, not that they are really unmoving, but i think it’s a suggestive sentence all the same, and i’m suspicious of every word Muir writes. The second quote, specifically the highlighted part, is also a bit frustrating. It seems to imply that John isn’t exactly doing magic as we know it, but something else. If it was Harrow narrating we could go further with it, but since it’s Gideon we could simply attribute it to her lack of knowledge and familiarity with magic. However, two sentences after that we don’t have that problem;

The construct gamely clamberign our of the Saint of Duty dwindled to a powder of pink dust. The shard you had been driving up the cervical vertebrae to the base of the spine [...] simply disappeared: destroyed or removed, you could not tell.

This is still Gideon narrating but in this case she’s specifically telling us that Harrow doesn’t understand what John just did, it’s not magic Harrow is familiar with. There’s also the contrast between what we know is a normal process of destroying a construct - reducing it to dust - vs this mysterious disappearance, that doesn’t really fit into what we know so far about the way thanergy/thalergy work.

so far, nothing conclusive, we know John is really powerful, but we don’t know exactly how, where his power comes from or what it can do. Then there’s the moment he unexplodes himself (Chapter 52, HtN);

White light.

It bleached the insides of your nose and the back of your throat. It hurt coming out your ears. It bled out your eyeballs. It wasn’t a flash of light, more … a suddenness; when it was gone—as though it hadn’t even existed, but had been a luminous hallucination—time stopped.

That light took colour from the room—everyone was a slow-motion cavalcade of greys, of eyes caught widening, of mouths parting in stone-shaded articulations of shock.

It happened in an instant. It happened over a myriad. A wet red construct knitted itself back together, [...]

again that white light that has been associated with thalergy magic and again all these references to time slowing down, stopping or just behaving in strange ways in general. again lots of ambiguity, this could be a thalergy based power - the ability to hold living bodies in stasis, and therefore make everyone feel like time has slowed down - or it could be that John is actually affecting time, maybe even reversing it (?) since he literally un-exploded himself, after Mercy put all her millenia of expertise into atomizing him and reducing him to almost nothing.

is that even explicable with regular thanergy/thalergy based magic? i’m not sure, a regular necro could never do that, a lyctor couldn’t do that. So if John isn’t just an overpowered lyctor what’s the difference exactly? i mean, how do his powers manifest differently from those of every other necromancer we know?

the other person we’ve seen using powerful thalergy magic is Silas. Whenever he siphoned, Gideon describes a similar vacuum sensation to the one that John’s magic also provokes, as well as white light;

As he faded, the pale Silas incandesced. He glowed with an irradiated shimmer, iridescent white, and the air began to taste of thunder. (Chapter 17, GtN)

Gideon felt an internal tug, like a blanket being pulled off in the cold. (Chapter 17, GtN)

Silas clambered to his knees, clasped his fingers together, and the feeling of suction popped the pressure in both of Gideon’s ears. (Chapter 34, GtN)

Silas is nowhere near as powerful as John but siphoning - thalergy based magic, condemned by God - still causes that suction effect and is marked by white light and lightning, just like John’s magic. However, there’s no mention of a time altering effect, no slowing down, no freezing in place, and seeing how both kinds of magic are similarly coded otherwise i find this difference suspicious.

To end this somewhere, two quotes, first, this thing Harrow tells Ortus when they both discuss what it must be like to be a lyctor (Chapter 5, HtN);

“Nigenad, what would be the tragedy in living for a myriad? Ten thousand years to learn everything there is to know [...] What is the tragedy of time?”

honestly to me that sounds like Muir making Harrow say things she will regret later. of course it could be about any of the numerous tragedies in Harrow life but still, gave me pause, specially because it kinda echoes John’s earlier sentiment, wishing he had mastered Time.

finally, a quote that might be totally meaningless and completely off base in this theory or it could round it up perfectly, i haven’t decided yet;

[...] ; yet you prayed all the while knowing Ianthe’s facility for tergiversation would have given the whole universe pause. (Chapter 36, HtN)

we know Ianthe is a girlboss and gaslighting is her thing. However, isn’t this sentence a bit too dramatic to describe Ianthe? doesn’t it sound kinda ominous to you? it definitely does to me, and although it might totally be my Ianthe bias wanting her to play an important part, who is Ianthe hanging out with lately? exactly John God “Jod” the Emperor.

in conclusion, i haven’t reached any conclusion. but i still think there’s something off with John’s powers beyond what we’ve been told, which isn’t much really, and i think there’s something going on with Time within the narrative (that’s another whole post though), and i think these two things are most probably related. but i can’t say i’m 100% sure of any of it. this was fun though. if you made it here thank you so much you’re the best <3

#the intermitent use of capitalization throughtout this wole thing...#this is really very long. if you read it and have any thought whatsoever about it please do share i'd love to hear them #htn spoilers #harrow the ninth spoilers #the locked tomb #meta commentary

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kitsu-katsu · 3 years ago

Text

Wilbur’s character traits that many forget or ignore in their “hot takes”:

So, this post is made to compile a list of things important to Wilbur’s character that many forget, remain ignorant to or ignore when making posts, writing fics, theorizing or a long list of etc in fandom activity.

I will provide quotes to every point I can, at the very least I will provide arguments for every point if just a quote doesn’t cut it.

(Quotes from @kateis-cakeis, go to his blog, he’s a legend)

Actual post under the cut

-Wilbur cares. A LOT.

He considered giving up on L’manburg to spare bloodshed, which is something most of the fandom forgets:

“Basically, we have such a lower opportunity here that we probably just need to accept the conditions of surrender, just so we can save any more bloodshed, any more destruction on our land. They’ve entrapped our land, they’ve set up bombs on our land, they’ve destroyed all our homes. To stop any more bloodshed, I feel I would be a bad general if I didn’t look for conditions of surrender.” - (Wilbur’s The Revolution is Coming: 30:32, 2nd Aug)

“Tommy, we need you alive. Tommy, this isn’t worth it. Tommy, your life is worth more than the revolution.” - (Wilbur’s The Revolution is Coming: 34:57:, 2nd Aug)

“What has made you do everything you’ve done up to this point?” (Quackity)

“That’s a- That’s a big question. Um. I guess it’s just protection for my people. I mean, I- I- I just want to see them thrive, and I want to see them safe.” (Alivebur)

- (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:03:02, 12th Apr)

“‘Cause, I mean, we were the, we just kinda made ourselves the leaders, and then, and now we had a vote, and he won, in a coalition government, which was completely legal, and now we’re trying to overthrow him. It feels like we’re the bad guys, Tommy. This doesn’t feel correct.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:08:34, 8th Oct)

“Look, do you know how long and how much blood was shed to get L’Manberg to the point it was at? You know what would happen if we manage to get L’Manberg back again? More blood would be shed, and we would be the illegitimate rulers of a nation.” - (Wilbur’s video Am I the Villain?: 18:52)

“I don’t think everyone will be even once Schlatt’s out of the picture. People will never be even. People will never be even, dude. It’s gonna go on forever. This entire thing is a cycle. Up and down, up and down, just constant.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 4:00, 13th Oct)

“I don’t know. I don’t know if I want it back.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 4:24, 13th Oct)

“It’s what has to be done, man, it’s what has to be done. I was saying this to Tommy, I’ll say it again. If Schlatt loses to us, we’ve still lost. Schlatt’s a smart man, he knows what he’s done. He’s set up things up in such a way, so that our success will actually just cause another cycle of pain and death and destruction, right.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 6:56, 13th Oct)

Him saying that he didn’t care if people got hurt during Pogtopia? That was a lie, something said out of impulsiveness, and was then contradicted by his moment of clarity and him running to sacrifice himself in Niki’s place

“We blow up the entire fucking place to kingdom come. I want no survivors. God help whoever’s caught in the fucking crossfire.” - (Wilbur’s video, Am I The Villain?: 17:52)

“And, I know you’re scared, Tommy, I understand you’re scared. And it’s scary, it’s scary, Tommy, but do you know what? You know what? In a time like this, when a man has nothing to lose, do you know what that means? It means we can do what we want. We have a man on our side who literally rigged our nation with TNT. We can do the same to them. We can rig this festival with TNT. We can kill them all, Tommy. ” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:15:52, 8th Oct)

“Anyone caught in the crossfire is caught in the crossfire. That’s how it goes, you know? - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:41:22, 8th Oct)

“Chat, do I wanna- Chat, do I wanna, do I wanna do it? I’m having second thoughts about the TNT. Chat, I’m having second thoughts about the TNT. Do I wanna kill these people? Seeing that they’re my friends.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 34:09, 16th Oct)

“Tommy, I’m getting second thoughts. These are my friends, I don’t- Do I- I don’t know if I wanna [inaudible].” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 36:17, 16th Oct)

“Just, if you’re gonna kill anyone else, kill me. Don’t kill anyone else here.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:10:53, 16th Oct)

“You sounded like you were gonna murder another person. You sounded like you were gonna go for Niki.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:12:34, 16th Oct)

“Oh, yes, sorry, Niki, you missed that part. I was gonna blow up Manberg, I was gonna completely destroy it in a huge fireball. Look, Niki, come to Pogtopia, you’re safer here. You’re not gonna be hurt by anyone.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:17:59, 16th Oct)

“No you two can escape, I’ll be the… I’ll- I’ll- I’ll be… I’ll be trapped in here…” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 27:27, 17th Oct)

“I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want to kill you two. I don’t want you two to die.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 28:53, 17th Oct)

He wanted to make sure that Niki was ok when they couldn’t quite take her in yet:

“We’re in too much of a hot position right now to take in everyone from every sort of like person we need into our new like cave, so you’re gonna have to hold out in Manberg for a bit longer, is that okay?” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 51:15, 23rd Sep)

He always wanted Tubbo to stay safe:

“Don’t, don’t hold, don’t hold Tubbo accountable, Tommy. He doesn’t know. He just wants to survive.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 31:57, 22nd Sep)

“And whilst I’m not entirely trustful of Tubbo, I still don’t want to see him getting hurt by Schlatt. So, as long as Schlatt’s being nice to him, then I’m gonna keep my cool.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 37:21, 23rd Sep)

“We don’t hate Tubbo! He’s a spy! It’s fine.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 1:19:24, 23rd Sep)

“Tubbo, you don’t deserve this fate. You don’t deserve the fate I’m gonna befall everyone here.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 1:17, 13th Oct)

“Tubbo, look, I’m saying- you don’t deserve to- You don’t deserve to meet the same fate as everyone else here, right.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 1:39, 13th Oct)

“Techno’s on our side, he won’t, he won’t, he won’t.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:03:36, 16th Oct)

“He fucking killed Tubbo, he killed Tubbo. He fucking killed Tubbo.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:08:08, 16th Oct)

“You actually murdered Tubbo…” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:09:40, 16th Oct)

“What do you mean you’re on our side, you just murdered Tubbo in front of everyone!” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:15:08, 16th Oct)

He always cared about Tommy but expressed worry about his recklessness hurting them all or just Tommy himself one day:

“Tommy, you’ve learnt from me for so long now. You’ve taken everything I’ve taught you, you’ve watched me debate countless times, you’ve watched me write our declaration of independence, you’ve watched me write our manifesto. Tommy, I believe you will have my beliefs and you’ll be able to voice them properly. But, Tommy, I’m worried that your fire, the fire in your heart will overtake you.” - (Wilbur’s The Election Campaign: 56:39, 8th Sep)

“Wait, Tommy, you’re not actually burning down the forest, that’s literally- That was the one thing Schlatt put on the book he was gonna do. … That’s literally the thing we’re fighting against, Tommy.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 1:04:15, 23rd Sep)

“Tommy, if you don’t fix the mistake you’ve made here, I don’t know if you’re the right fit for Pogtopia. You’re already aligning yourself with the enemy.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 1:06:48, 23rd Sep)

“You’re proving yourself to be too much of a loose cannon, Tommy. I literally can’t- I can’t- Look, there is a reason why you are not the president and never will be.” - (Wilbur’s video Am I the Villain?: 05:36)

“Tommy, Tommy, careless talk costs lives, Tommy.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 53:46, 8th Oct)

“Remember when we started L’Manberg, I was pretty sure that was, you know. You are a pretty short-tempted, short-fused kind of an aggressive guy, Tommy. I’m surprised you managed to get this far without killing him, you know?” - (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:28:07, 20th Jan)

“Tommy, you– You can never quite take things as they come, can you? You always gotta ask questions, man. Just, just. Come on, come on, let’s see a smile. Let’s see a smile, Tommy. Come on. Come on, cheer up. Look, you win. Come on. Why you gotta look so sad about everything all the time, man? Turn that frown upside down.” - (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:29:54, 20th Jan)

“I’m proud of you, Tommy. I’m proud of you.” (Alivebur)

“See you soon, Wilbur.” (Tommy)

“See you soon.” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:34:31, 20th Jan)

He made sure that Tommy wouldn’t be seen as complicit in the TNT plot:

“Look, Tommy, it’s gonna be great, it’s gonna be absolutely wonderful. I know you still don’t agree with it, but like, man, today, let’s just be friends. Let’s be friends today, man. Even if you disagree with me fundamentally, I think after you see how much it puts us in the advantage…” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 9:28, 16th Oct)

“It’s… Tommy, you’re my friend today, okay? You can have your grievances with me later, but today, you’re my friend, you’re my ally. Just stick with me, just get ready. You’re not an accomplice here, you’re just a viewer, you’re a- you watch- You’re a witness! Witness! That’s the word I was looking for. You’re a witness, Tommy, alright.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 16:24, 16th Oct)

“You don’t have to worry, you know, when it comes to the tribunal, when it comes to the Geneva Conventions, you’re in the clear, Tommy, you were just there, you know. Me, however, I’ll take the fall, I’ll take the fall, Tommy. I’m taking off this fucking helmet. Look, I’ll take the fall, Tommy, alright. You just, you just focus on, just, you know, just enjoy the time.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 16:40, 16th Oct)

We also can see some good old Ghostbur caring about Tommy and Tubbo as well:

“Will you still look after me if im alone?” (Tommy)

“I don’t really know why that would change.” (Ghostbur)

- (Tommy’s Streaming before Exile Day: 1:28:44, 3rd Dec)

“So why don’t I pretend- Why don’t we pretend I’m Alivebur?! You can pretend I’m alive still. … And then we can go and make a new nation.” - (Tommy’s Streaming before Exile Day: 1:31:38, 3rd Dec)

“I will follow you, whatever you think we should do. … So, I’ll follow you, wherever you think we should go.” - (Tommy’s Streaming before Exile Day: 1:32:18, 3rd Dec)

You want something more recent about him caring about Tommy? There’s plenty in recent streams too:

“Tommy, do you remember when you got sent into exile? Yeah. I remember. I was there, Tommy, I was there. I was there. I was in the cage of that little ghost’s fucking head. Every single step you and me took-” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 20:23, 5th May)

“Look at me, Tommy. Look me in the eyes. Every single step me and you took, I was there, I was there. I had no control of what was happening, I have no idea what was being said. But, Tommy, I’ll tell you what, if I was there, and if it wasn’t that stupid shell of a ghost instead of me, I would have struck down Dream right where he stood. We would have disembowelled him, we would have disembowelled him together. Together.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 20:42, 5th May)

“Tommy, I’m not, I’m not- I wasn’t blind, I saw what he was doing to you, Tommy. I saw. I saw what he was doing to Tubbo. I saw what he did to me.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 21:08, 5th May)

“Will, this is so cool!” (Tommy)

“Tommy, shut up! I mean, Tommy, come over here. Tommy, come over here, come over here, man. It’s cool, it’s cool, it’s cool. Sorry, I, I-” (Alivebur)

– (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 26:08, 31st May)

"I wanna make a place where we can be safe for once. Tommy, it’s been so long since we’ve felt safe. And man, you deserve it. You’ve been through so much, you’ve done so much. Tommy, you’ve changed the world. And all you have to show for it is some scars and some trauma. Tommy, you deserve this safety and this sanctuary, and that’s what I wanna make with you, and you won’t get it over there. You won’t get it over there.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 40:14, 31st May)

“Remember the pit, Tommy? Remember what happened in the pit. Don’t. Don’t trust people who would have fought you in the pit.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 46:59, 31st May)

“Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hey, hey, hey, don’t come near Tommy, don’t come near Tommy. I see you.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 48:44, 31st May)

“I just don’t want him to hurt you, I just don’t want him to hurt you.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 48:55, 31st May)

“Quackity, I wanna say, I wanna say to you, like, like from here on, as much as we may have our disagreements here, man, I- We’ve gotta leave Tommy outta this. Like, Tommy, I- I’m sorry if we came off a bit strong.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 50:09, 31st May)

“Get out of the way. Stand back, stand back. I don’t- I’m not too, like, fond of this. … I’ll go first, Tommy.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 53:56, 31st May)

“This would be such a good point to just jump off and just end it.” (Tommy)

“No, no! Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, get down. Tommy, get down off the railings. Tommy, get off the railings, man. I-” (Alivebur)

– (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 57:50, 31st May)

“Is there a three-person chair? I don’t want Tommy to be, uh.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 58:18, 31st May)

“Tommy, I’ve got you, don’t worry. I’ve always got you.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 59:19, 31st May)

“I’m excited to show Tommy. What’s you opinion on Tommy?”

“Oh he’s great, Tommy’s awesome.”

“I agree, I agree.”

- (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 51:17, 25th July)

“So it’s obviously based on Hallelujah right? But the thing is, the thing is, Ranboo, right, is that the reason we did it is because Tommy used to sing Hallelujah to the plants.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 8:46, 3rd Aug)

“He used to plant the stuff around the caravan and then to make it grow better, he used to- To make it grow better, my man Tommy- … So, my man Tommy, used to sing to the plants to make them grow better. Uh, and that was the song he used to sing.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 9:14, 3rd Aug)

“So I thought, what a way to honour Tommy, you know, one of the most loyal members of our fair nation, than by naming the song after him, you know? And singing it based on his little, his little muse, you know?” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 9:47, 3rd Aug)

“Tommy’s all of our muse I’d say.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 10:02, 3rd Aug)

“But, you know, it’s, it’s gonna get better, it’s gonna get better and it’s gonna be worth it when I see them smiling, all of them. Tubbo, Jack, Niki, Tommy. Anyone!” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 25:32, 3rd Aug)

“I didn’t even tell Tommy, I lied to Tommy, I’ll be honest. I’m gonna tell him soon that I lied to him because it kinda eats away at me.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:29, 3rd Aug)

“I mean, Tommy’s great and all and he’s here, but I, I feel like, you know, I don’t want to, I don’t want to string him along too much.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 28:36, 3rd Aug)

You want some recent caring about Tubbo too? Well, here you go:

“Dude, it’s- I don’t even know what to say to you, man. It’s like looking into a little mirror. Look, you’re even wearing my suit still.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 14:08, 3rd Aug)

“Holy crap, I saw you briefly, man, when I was resurrected. I remember you super, super briefly. But this is the first time we’ve actually gotten to speak. Okay, I will admit, I was a little bit overwhelmed during that whole thing, you know, it was a bit, it was a bit, you know, I was running across the glass- which thank god its gone, like Jesus, like, this is far more apt.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 14:45, 3rd Aug)

“I’m sorry I wasn’t, you know, entirely on the same page. But, man, I promise you, I’ve calmed down, you know, I’m all, I’m all settled in. I understand, you know, what’s changed, what hasn’t, who’s new, who’s old, you know, who’s still about, you know, who… Who, uh… uh… Who trusts me and stuff.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 15:04, 3rd Aug)

“Super simply, man. I just want to say I- I want to say I’m sorry. For one thing mainly, uh, I’ve been thinking about this for y- Literal years, literal years I’ve been thinking about this. Uh, I’m sorry for, uh, I’m sorry for making you president specifically before blowing it up. And I’m sorry for when I did this and blew all this up and making this hole, I’m sorry that I, uh, I said you were the president of a crater. I just want to say that I’m sorry, I’m really, really sorry.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 15:56, 3rd Aug)

“Tubbo, this is probably the best gift I’ve ever been given. Just this knowledge, that you actually cared enough to rebuild this community after it fell.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 19:26, 3rd Aug)

“Tubbo. I have… a little thing going. It’s not big, it’s nothing much yet! You know, it’s just- It’s not a big deal! You know? It’s, uh, it’s a little burger van at the moment, but I’ve got big plans, big plans for it. Uh, Tubbo, it’s called Paradise. Would you like to come join me, in Paradise, literally?” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 20:00, 3rd Aug)

“I know you had that- at the festival, with Technoblade. I never spoke to you properly about this. I- I could have saved you.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 21:41, 3rd Aug)

“Tubbo, I’m- I’m reaching out to you here, man, I’m on my knees, bro. Like, I- I’m sorry, I’m really, really sorry. And I literally, your forgiveness means so much to me, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t give up what I did to you, and it doesn’t give up how I failed you as a friend… you know, as a, I mean, fuck being, as a co-worker, but just you know, anything.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 21:56, 3rd Aug)

“Tubbo, like, man, I’m- I want to make it up to you. And you know what? I appreciate that you don’t trust me yet. I do.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 22:26, 3rd Aug)

“Tubbo, I, I really appreciate it. And I mean that, genuinely. I appreciate it. And I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna, I’m gonna prove to you that I’m worth being trusted again. I promise.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 22:44, 3rd Aug)

“I- Tubbo, Tubbo, I know, I know, Tubbo, Tubbo, Tubbo, Tubbo, please, I know. I’m sorry, I’m sorry.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 23:13, 3rd Aug)

“It feels like such a weak word. I feel like there’s nothing stronger that I can say. And I, and I, and I understand what you mean about how my actions need to reflect it and they will.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 23:20, 3rd Aug)

“Tubbo, do you know how fucking strong you are? And I’m not just trying to say this- I’ve got your forgiveness and I know I need to earn your trust, but, man, I just want to let you know I- You’re so strong, man, genuinely.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 23:41, 3rd Aug)

“Just the fact that you proved to me just there that you have these memories, you have these nightmares, and you still found it in your heart to forgive me that’s- You’re a fucking champion, man, you’re a hero.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 23:54, 3rd Aug)

“No, no, man, man, no worries. Look at me, bro. Look at me, bro. Bro, chin up! Look. Lucky Rabbit’s Foot. Tommy gave this to me, man. Lucky Rabbit’s Foot. Lucky Rabbit’s Foot, man, chin up.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 24:34, 3rd Aug)

“I think he’s gonna be alright. He’s gonna be alright. I’m looking at him, I’m looking out for him here.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 28:14, 3rd Aug)

“Yeah. Don’t pressure him. He doesn’t have to join. He just needs to come and- I just want him to come and enjoy some of our patented burgers! ” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 30:52, 3rd Aug)

-He truthfully believed in “words over weapons” always

“We don’t win wars with battles and with armour. We win wars with our words, Tommy. We’re starting a revolution, not a war.” - (Wilbur’s The Wall: 4:54, 29th July)

“Look, Dream isn’t our enemy, he’s our neighbour. But, we are seceding from his tyrannical rule.” - (Wilbur’s The Wall: 57:34, 29th July)

“The only thing I ask is that you don’t touch the wildlife. The trees are very important to us here.” - (Wilbur’s The Wall: 1:00:08, 29th July)

“I’m not a fighter, I’m a writer.” - (Wilbur’s The Wall: 1:48:31, 29th July)

“Dream, we may have had our differences, but I think I can, I think I can learn to live side by side with you in this server.” - (Wilbur’s The Revolution is Coming: 51:16, 2nd Aug)

“Fighting is not necessary right now, Tommy.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 43:42, 22nd Sep)

“Tommy, control yourself. Tommy, control yourself, it’s not worth it. Tommy, do not take your shot! He disrespected me, yes! But we’ve talked about this, Tommy…!” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 59:36, 23rd Sep)

“I see you’ve abandoned my no armour policy since I’ve been gone.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 19:31, 5th May)

He only gave into using the weapons or armour when he felt cornered:

“I thought we used our words!” (Eret)

“Not in this case. They’ve tried to burn down our forest!” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s The Wall: 1:37:44, 29th July)

“Tommy, for the first time in my life, I’ve equipped armour, in this server. This is the first time I’ve worn armour on this server ever.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 33:50, 22nd Sep)

Or in the case of his speech to Quackity, when the entire world seemed to reflect, after all the wars, that his ideology of pacifism wasn’t the correct one (note how he seems to be talking as if trying to convince himself as well as talking from experience):

“If you want to really help people, you’re gonna need power, Quackity. You can make a movement, you can make a resistance, right, you can go out and you can come back, and they’ll give you a ticker tape parade. They’ll cheer for you in the streets, but you will change nothing.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:05:42, 12th Apr)

“If you have a revolution, everyone will hate you, you will sacrifice everything, and you will lose everything you’ve ever had, but you’ll come back and everything will be changed.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:05:59, 12th Apr)

“And power isn’t gaining from diplomacy, and bureaucracy, and giant courthouses suspended in the sky, blah blah blah. It’s gained from swords, Quackity. It’s gained from blades, it’s gained from steel, iron.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:06:19, 12th Apr)

“Even if everyone has this good side that you’re talking about, then anyone who wants to prove it, has to show their dark side first. You’re going to have to kill, you’re going to have to torture, you’re going to have to maim.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:06:34, 12th Apr)

Ghostbur showcases this belief as well when he aquestions what’s happening to the people of L’Manburg and its ideals:

“Hey, Tubbo, why are you wearing armour in L’Manberg? I thought that was the rule. You haven’t changed, have you, Tubbo? You haven’t changed, have you?“ - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 59:21, 16th Dec)

“This doesn’t look like something L’Manberg would build.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:08:03, 16th Dec)

“I’ve been reading a lot of history books recently, Philza. Lot of the L’Manberg history books, right? Because I know that Alivebur was really important in it, right? And I was reading them all, and I read one of the things, one of the first doctrinations that the entirety of this nation was formed on was the idea that everyone’s free. Everyone’s free to do what they want, and live how they want. I don’t think cages are conducive to that environment.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:08:08, 16th Dec)

“Right, but also, another thing. Techno was always allowed in L’Manberg. He was always allowed in there. But now he’s not. Now there’s loads of signs about him, wanting him alive. What’s that about?” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:08:37, 16th Dec)

“And Tubbo shot you with a bow!” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:09:08, 16th Dec)

“I thought Tubbo was the- Tubbo’s a good guy.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:09:16, 16th Dec)

-The final control room kickstarted his paranoia and left a permanent mark on him:

“Where are you taking me? This is- I’ve got bad memories down here, you’re gonna invoke my fight or flight reflex if you take me down here.” - (Wilbur’s The Revolution is Coming: 49:48, 2nd Aug)

“Eret, I’m not going with you. I have, I have values still.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 26:50, 22nd Sep)

“No, no. Yeah, we know we’ve been fucking betrayed. Of all the people. Get out.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 26:50, 22nd Sep)

“Eret, I’m sorry, I know you mean well but, I- I’ve- I’ve gotta decide who I can trust right now and I’m afraid you’re not first on my list.”

“I understand.”

“Thank you, Eret. Thank you.”

- (Wilbur’s the election results: 27:09, 22nd Sep)

“Anyone caught in the crossfire is caught in the crossfire. That’s how it goes, you know? Eret especially, he is the most clear, the most clear cut traitor of them all. He was a traitor from the very get go. I have no, I have no remorse offing Eret.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:41:22, 8th Oct)

As a bonus, consider every time Ghostbur talked about knowing Eret was “a wrongin” or bad because they cursed them out in the anthem, something that happened because of the betrayal:

“Yeah! Because you finally put an end to Alivebur, and everyone didn’t like him. But from what I’ve seen, he sort of had the longest era of peace in L’Manberg.” (Ghostbur)

“Yeah, kinda went down a… different path, unfortunately.” (Philza)

“Yeah, ‘cause of Eret”

- (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:11:46, 16th Dec)

-He always cared about preserving history, whether it was on his favour or not

“Yeah, it’s still a part of history. You don’t tear down history when it’s- even- just ‘cause you don’t agree with it.” - (Wilbur’s The Revolution is Coming: 50:56, 2nd Aug)

This habit continues through Ghostbur and his sewer library where he kept all important books and memoirs:

“I don’t- I don’t- I don’t- I don’t want to listen- I don’t want to hear what you have to say. I don’t want to have to hear what you have to say. I- I- I’ve read the history books, Phil. I’ve read the history books. You- You- You slayed the dragon, you slayed Alivebur. You were the- You- You are the St George of the Dream SMP. We understand, everyone understands that, Phil.” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 17:58, 6th Jan)

“So you make me suffer? I- I don’t know what Alivebur did, and I’m really trying to remember. But I know what I did, and I just wrote books. I built- Remember the lanterns we used to make? I built them. I- I built a house for people- I- I set up this area- I built this town just like I built Logstedshire, and I watched them both blow up. And I didn’t- I- I didn’t- I didn’t hurt anyone, and yet I’m the one who pays. Tommy didn’t even live here, Tommy didn’t have a house here. I sowed the seeds of peace, and yet I’m the one who pays for war.” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 18:47, 6th Jan)

“I’ve read his memoirs, Ranboo. They’re all gone now, they were blown up when my library was destroyed, so many really important pieces of history were blown up when my library was destroyed. But! I’ve read his memoirs, and he was pretty okay, most of the time, he seemed. And people liked him. But then, he lost this election, and you know the story, everyone knows the story.” - (Ranboo’s Preparation: 12:11, 14th Mar)

“History is written by the winners.” (Ghostbur)

“Yeah, and he, he technically won. I mean, he did what he wanted to.” (Ranboo)

“But then he lost and everyone hates him.” (Ghostbur)

- (Ranboo’s Preparation: 13:55, 14th Mar)

-He loved and loves Fundy, he didn’t disown him

“I don’t know, man. I don’t know, I think you’d be getting into a fight you wouldn’t wanna start with me. You’ve only been on the positive side of me, you’ve only seen my nice side, because, you know, being my son you get special… You know, you won’t ever see me going against you.” - (Wilbur’s Let’s Capture and Farm Cute Animals to Make Money in Ooblets: 1:45:40, 4th Sep)

“F- Fundy. I- I’ve got- I’ve got- I’ve got a bad feeling about this. I think you’re just gonna, you’re just gonna get hurt.” - (Wilbur’s Let’s Capture and Farm Cute Animals to Make Money in Ooblets: 1:46:11, 4th Sep)

“Fundy, when I look at you, I can see there’s some stuff going inside right now and you need some help.” - (Wilbur’s The Election Campaign: 26:12, 8th Sep)

“Wait, look who’s coming, look’s who coming, my son, my boy.” (Alivebur)

“Your ex-son.” (Tommy)

“Well I mean, he’s still my son in blood, but he’s just…” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s Election Night: 10:04, 20th Sep)

“He’s really upsetting me. He’s, look, he’s supposed to be my son.” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 10:36, 20th Sep)

“It’s really sad, like I- Honestly I- When he turned around to me and he said he wasn’t gonna vote for me, and then he decided he was gonna vote for the opposition, and then he decided he was gonna run against me. That was- One of those was the straw that broke my back, I’m not sure which one, I’m still contemplating which one.” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 10:52, 20th Sep)

“I miss me son! I miss when he was my boy! Do you remember when he was my boy?!” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 11:17, 20th Sep)

“Yeah, yeah, go on, son! Just- Just- Yeah- POG2020 wants to let the furry talk. … Yeah, everyone be really nice to Fundy. … Look, he’s got dressed up in a little suit and I’m very proud of him.” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 35:38, 20th Sep)

“My son… My son is tearing down the walls, in front of me! My son is tearing down the walls in front of me! The walls I built to keep him safe! I promised him this world, Tommy, I promised him this world.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 39:41 22nd Sep)

“Don’t give him promotions he’s too young, he doesn’t understand. He needs to learn more. No, he needs to learn more, I should know he’s my son.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 57:57, 23rd Sep)

“Wilbur is just a founder, and I was born here and nothing else. That’s literally everything there is to it.” (Fundy)

“But you know that’s not…” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 58:20, 23rd Sep)

“I don’t know who you are anymore, Fundy. I don’t know who you are anymore…” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 59:08, 23rd Sep)

“Fundy, Fundy is very clearly on Schlatt’s side, look- Fundy was the closest thing I had to something I cared about in L’Manberg, when it all began. You know, when it started, the closest thing to anything I cared about was Fundy. Fundy was my, he was my, he was my boy! My rock! You know? And hearing what he said about L’Manberg and stuff is just… And when I heard him say that he had no care for me, I believe that. I think he’s so happy that he’s finally been given maturity in L’Manberg, you know. Like, Schlatt’s giving him the maturity he’s been craving, you know. And that’s cool. That’s fine. You know? I have no issue with that, he can do what he wants.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:44:10, 8th Oct)

Want Ghostbur as well? You have it, even when he forgot about Fundy disowning him, couldn’t really make up for Alivebur’s failings because he didn’t remember and when Fundy was being adopted in front of him, he showed he cared:

“Fundy needs a dad. Fundy needs a dad. For sure. And I need to make up for what I did. I’ve got to make up for what I did.” - (Wilbur’s Amangus with new and old friends: 2:03:04, 24th Nov)

“Last time I spoke to Fundy was… erm. When I announced I was running for President, and you said that you were also gonna run. That was the last time I remember.” - (Fundy’s Being Adopted: 1:00:43, 27th Nov)

“He’s very young, he’s only like fourteen. He’s going through some times, he just needs time on his own sometimes.” - (Fundy’s Being Adopted: 1:03:12, 27th Nov)

“Phil, do you know how old Fundy is? I think he was very young when I remember, but I don’t know if he’s gotten older since.” - (Fundy’s Being Adopted: 1:03:23, 27th Nov)

“And I, I, I don’t know why your stream title is ‘being adopted’ but I don’t- I, I, I hope- I don’t know what that’s about. But I’m sure- I- I’m sure it’ll make sense and I’m sure it’s nothing bad and everything’s happy! Everything’s fine!” - (Fundy’s Being Adopted: 1:08:29, 27th Nov)

“Did Fundy like Alivebur?” (Ghostbur)

“He loved you.” (Eret)

“Oh! Well then there we go, that’s a good plan then!” (Ghostbur)

- (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 44:07, 6th Jan)

-Paranoia and distrustfulness are integral to his character

“You say, you say everyone has a good side, Quackity. And you’re right, you’re right, everyone has a good side, but that good side is only there to help themselves.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:05:32, 12th Apr)

“I think, I think Tubbo might be one of the few people we can trust here. I don’t think I can trust Technoblade, I definitely can’t trust Fundy. I can’t trust Jack Manifold, Jack Manifold tore down the walls. I guess Tubbo is doing his job right now, I guess he’s out looking for us.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 42:10, 22nd Sep)

“Look, I think, from what I can gather, there is only two people we can trust on the server right now. That’s Tubbo, and that’s Niki. Seem to be the only people who I can trust right now, but I’m still not willing to open up to them yet. It’s gonna take me a long time.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 44:18, 22nd Sep)

“Tubbo’s one of the few people I trust, Technoblade. Like, I’m still figuring you out right now, but, at the moment, Tubbo seems to be, you know, pretty on the ball. He seems pretty keen on the whole spying thing.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 12:16, 23rd Sep)

“Tubbo, ignore what I just said, I don’t trust you. You have to prove yourself to me.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 12:33, 23rd Sep)

“Tubbo said that he was wearing the suit as a disguise, right? Turns out that’s not true, turns out it’s a dress code. So, Tubbo lied to me, which is not the best start for our, you know, our political relationship.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 36:52, 23rd Sep)

“He’s a man who I thought really cared about his nation. But you know, I’ve been wrong before.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 1:10:00, 23rd Sep)

“Tubbo, you’re… See, with Technoblade, right, I have no doubt that Technoblade is on my side, right. ‘Cause with Technoblade, right, I know he just wants blood, and he wants war, right. That’s how Technoblade works, you know. He just wants to fight, and he wants to kill bad guys, right. Yeah, yeah, look at him, he’s a little libertarian, little anarchist, right. So here’s what I’m saying, right. You, however, I can’t tell whether you’re cosying up to Schlatt to help spy, or whether you’re cosying up to Schlatt because you quite like how he treats you.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 1:21:09, 23rd Sep)

“Tommy, I’ve got a question for you, right. Because this festival, this is a good idea, this doesn’t seem like a bad like, this doesn’t seem evil. You know? This seems like a nice friendly thing Schlatt’s doing. Tommy, are we the bad guys?” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:08:14, 8th Oct)

“Tommy, am I, am I a bad, am I a villain of this story. Am I the villain in your history?” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:08:59, 8th Oct)

“That guy Tubbo? You know? We love Tubbo… but he’s not on our side, is he? Let’s be honest. We act like he is, like, everyone’s always how like, oh it’s crazy how everyone’s against Schlatt.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:12:57, 8th Oct)

“Everyone’s always saying how like, oh it’s crazy how everyone’s against Schlatt. No one’s against Schlatt. Everyone’s pulling the biggest ruse on us. Literally, they’ve got us all by the fucking scruff of our necks.” - (Wilbur’s video Am I the Villain?: 17:59)

“Tubbo’s like, ‘I’ll be your spy!’. And then we’ve got like Fundy who’s like saying to everyone’s twitch chats that he’s gonna revolt against us. And you’ve got Eret giving us fucking potatoes, that say fucking ‘I’m gonna be friends with you’. It’s bullshit! It’s all bullshit!” - (Wilbur’s video Am I the Villain?: 18:09)

“‘Cause Schlatt knows, he’s a smart man, he knows that if we fight him, even if we beat him, we’ve lost. If he fights us and kills us, we’ve lost. Tommy, there’s no in-between, he knows we’ve lost.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:15:37, 8th Oct)

“Tommy, literally have you not noticed? Everyone who’s claiming to be on our side, they’re lying to us! Tubbo?! He’s lying to you man! He would drop us at the second he realises we’re not in the lead anymore!” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:16:15, 8th Oct)

[About Tubbo’s speech for Manberg] “That’s not something a, that’s not something a traitor would do, is it? That’s not- We’re not- You’re not gonna- I’m- I- Ah- I’m just- I was just wondering ‘cause writing a speech is quite a har-” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:19:27, 8th Oct)

“And you know what? It’s not over yet, Tubbo. It’ll never be over. … Tubbo, it’s never gonna be over. We’re here forever.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 3:24, 13th Oct)

“Tubbo, have you not realised? The one fear I had, the one fear I had when taking over L'Manberg, was the idea that the act of war and the act of tyranny that I was bestowing onto the Dream SMP would just start an endless cycle of vengeance and death.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 3:36, 13th Oct)

“But here’s the thing, right, it’s about the fact that with or without, you know- If we win, Schlatt wins. If we lose, Schlatt wins. The only way we can possibly have any sort of semblance of victory is for us both to lose.” - (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 8:00, 13th Oct)

“Yes, yes, by literally every stretch of the world. If we try and fight Schlatt, hand to hand, one on one, we lose! Even if we kill him we lose! Because we’ve fought back and gained power. Do you know what I’m doing here, Tommy? I’m creating a power vacuum! I’m creating a power vacuum. You know who can fill it, Tommy? Tommy, I know you’re gonna like this one, you could fill it, Tommy. You could fill that power vacuum that I��m gonna create. Anyone could! When I destroy this, there’s a massive vacuum and people are just waiting for the next powerful person.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 17:24, 16th Oct)

“They mean nothing to me, Tommy. None of them do. We can kill them all. Seriously, it doesn’t matter, they don’t- They’re not on our side.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 19:24, 16th Oct)

“Oh Tubbo’s, Tubbo’s clearly- Have you heard the way he talks to me? He talks to me like how he talks to Schlatt.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 19:36, 16th Oct)

“You’re just a yes man, aren’t you? This isn’t the first time Tubbo’s done this man.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 40:51, 16th Oct)

“Tubbo organised the event, bro. I’m telling you, man, he’s not on our side.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 46:08, 16th Oct)

“Do you know why this is magnificent, Tommy? Because now it’s exactly what I said, no one’s on our side, Tommy. Everyone’s just listening to whoever’s got the most power. No one cares. No one has any honour here. Everyone’s just doing as they’re told. Tommy, this is perfect. Oh shut up, Technoblade, you’re in it… as well.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:15:27, 16th Oct)

“This isn’t about me, this is about blowing up Manberg, this is about just finishing it. We’ve got this! Look, Tommy, what else do I need to convince you? The festival was a front.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:15:47, 16th Oct)

“Because no one’s actually caring about honour, everyone just wants to commit chaos.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:17:15, 16th Oct)

“It’s just as exactly as I predicted- It’s as exactly as I predicted, it’s exactly as I predicted. This is just all a travesty.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:17:59, 16th Oct)

“But I’m not the one who was a traitor so, I should be the one deciding. Don’t get me wrong, don’t get me wrong, it’s fine that you’re a traitor, I like it, I like it, it’s cool- Why did you do it?” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:23:39, 16th Oct)

“See the thing is, Technoblade, like, I know this probably seems very confusing but like I- I don’t care if you’re not on our side or whatever, as long as you’re willing to help me do chaos. As long as you’re willing to help me.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:29:06, 16th Oct)

“After last night’s catastrophe- I mean Schlatt won, how awful is that? Literally we let Schlatt win? Schlatt came away yesterday with a victory for Manberg. Holy shit, no, not again. I don’t think we should let that happen again, right.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 5:03, 17th Oct)

“And I thought, right, what did I do wrong? Okay things that I did wrong: One, I trusted Techno too much, right. I think we can all agree I did that wrong. … He traitored, but you know, it ended up working out well for us ‘cause now we have another boy for chaos. And he’s kinda on my side in this which is good. Number two, I shouldn’t have lost the button. … But don’t worry, ‘cause mans only gone and found it.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 5:22, 17th Oct)

“I’m just telling you, you shouldn’t be worried, you shouldn’t be afraid. And you know what? At the end of the day, Tommy, I would say we’ve always got each other, but we don’t, ‘cause if it goes wrong, you’re probably gonna hate me.” - (Wilbur’s video Finale: 3:03)

“I thought I was the traitor… I thought I was the traitor…” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:02:37, 16th Nov)

“He’s– He’s gonna– Tommy, he’s gonna bring Schlatt back as well.” - (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:32:53, 20th Jan)

“Ranboo, are you a schmoozer? … A schmoozer, are you schmoozing everyone? Are you greasing everyone up?” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 35:38, 5th May)

“He’s harmless now, he’s harmless now, give him, give him a burger van though, I don’t know, he might spatula me, Phil. Could you imagine me, look at me, imagine me with a spatula through my skull.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 14:32, 25th July)

“Ranboo, me and you are neurotic, and that’s why we’re alive right now, talking to each other and doing this.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 40:25, 25th July)

“I think, I think you might be a bit braver than me, in showing your true colours. I feel like with you, Ranboo, I never have to be guessing your next move, I never have to be guessing your hand, you know? I feel like life dealt us the same cards, and the difference is that you build your trust by showing people your cards, while I keep them close to my chest. And I feel like that might be the big difference.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 41:22, 25th July)

“Ranboo, I’m gonna tell you something I’ve never really told anyone. I try and keep this on the low because I don’t want, I don’t want people to use this against me is the main problem.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:19, 3rd Aug)

“In the case of an emergency, right? When we are head to head, you know? … When we are head to head with Tubbo, and Big Q, and stuff, and you know, it’s all- And maybe shit’s going a bit- hitting the fan, you know? I need to know that we have a saviour card to save the innocent people in this city. You know like Tubbo and, and Fundy. I need to know we can save the innocent people.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 31:53, 4th Aug)

“In most cases, yeah. 100%. 100% most of the time, maybe it won’t happen. But, if we need to protect the innocent people, that’s what it’s for. You wanna protect like Fundy, you wanna protect Slimecicle, Tubbo? Yeah. So that’s- that’s what it’s for.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 33:26, 4th Aug)

“I’ll make it very, very safe, yeah.” (Ranboo)

“Promise?” (Alivebur)

“Promise, yeah.”

- (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 34:10, 4th Aug)

“And you’re gonna tell me where you put the button? And you’re gonna tell me where everything’s set up?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 34:14, 4th Aug)

-Self-loathing and self-sabotage are also an integral part of his character

“It feels like we’re the bad guys, Tommy. This doesn’t feel correct.” - (Wilbur’s video Am I the Villain?: 15:49)

“Tommy, am I, am I a bad, am I a villain of this story. Am I the villain in your history?” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:08:59, 8th Oct)

“Tommy, let’s be villains.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:11:17, 8th Oct)

“How much would you say me and Tommy are kind of the bad guys here? We… we… uh… we…” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:32:15, 8th Oct)

“We fought against people, we killed people to get leadership of this country, we didn’t really do much in our leadership, and then when we were voted out, we’re now trying to fight our way back in. It doesn’t f- It feels like we might- I don’t know, what do you think?” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:32:28, 8th Oct)

“Thing is, Tommy, Tommy, what you’re not understanding is, Dream only gave you that gear so that you could cause this conflict. You see? That’s what this is all about. Dream doesn’t want us to win, Dream just wants both Pogtopia and Manberg to be weak! That’s it!” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:34:03, 8th Oct)

“And, Dream, Dream, I’m not, I’m not scolding you on this, that’s smart. You’re a smart guy. I’ve seen your two thousand IQ plays. Right. Nothing can get past you, right.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:34:16, 8th Oct)

“So, I’m here to help you. I’m here to weaken both of us, so much. Manberg and Pogtopia will be nothing more.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:34:25, 8th Oct)

“We are the villains, Tommy! We didn’t win the election and we’re trying to fight for it back! Look how nice this place looks under Schlatt, look how lovely Schlatt has made this place.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 15:57, 16th Oct)

“Me, however, I’ll take the fall, I’ll take the fall, Tommy. I’m taking off this fucking helmet. Look, I’ll take the fall, Tommy, alright. You just, you just focus on, just, you know, just enjoy the time.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 16:40, 16th Oct)

“I’m not crouching there’s no point! We’ll all be dead soon, it doesn’t matter!” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 24:16, 17th Oct)

“Yesterday I had the perfect opportunity to blow everything up and finally end it, you know. I had the perfect opportunity to finally blow up everything and end it and just completely save everyone, right, from the tyranny of Schlatt and the tyranny of the existence of Manberg and L’Manberg, right.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 25:17, 17th Oct)

“No you two can escape, I’ll be the… I’ll- I’ll- I’ll be… I’ll be trapped in here…” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 27:27, 17th Oct)

“Ohh, fuck you! Fuck you, man! Why do you make it so hard?! I should have just- I’m such a fucking showman.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 29:29, 17th Oct)

“I know we can, but we’ll be the bad guys, if we take him down we’ll be the bad guys…” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 31:10, 17th Oct)

“Oh, I don’t have a home, let’s be honest.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 27:04, 6th Nov)

“I’m always weary, I don’t sleep.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 45:37, 6th Nov)

“There was a traitor. I don’t know what Dream was talking about, there was a traitor. It’s me and Techno. And now the server is going to go into ruin, thanks to us.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:18:36, 16th Nov)

“Do you wanna be alive again?” (Tubbo)

“Oh, hell no. No. God, oh god.” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:29:22, 20th Jan)

“We can bring you back.” (Tommy)

“W– What?” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:31:46, 20th Jan)

“The reason why Dream isn’t dead now, off his own server, banned, is because we can bring you back.” (Tommy)

“Y– W– I– But I– I– I don’t- I don’t wanna- I- I don’t.” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:31:53, 20th Jan)

“Are you sure?” (Tubbo)

“W– You made a– You… You made a– The one person on the server who is– I… You want– Let me get it straight. So you managed to get the discs by… Wait, so the reason Dream’s not dead is because you want me back alive?” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:32:09, 20th Jan)

“Guys, I– What the fuck have you done?! What have you done?! The one thing I wanted was to stay fucking dead!” - (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:33:30, 20th Jan)

“I’m really happy you’re here, man. I felt this place growing for you in here, right? And you know why I’m glad, Tommy, you know why I’m glad? Because me and you were never good for that server. We just weren’t. Like, you can look at the whole history of the server, and it all falls in our laps, the problems, right.” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 9:35, 4th March)

“Think about it, everything that’s gone wrong, is down to us, it lies at our footsteps.” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 9:59, 4th March)

“Here’s the thing, I genuinely think, if it weren’t for me and you dying right, the server would be in shambles. I know for a fact that if I come back, or if I’m brought back to life in some way it’s definitely gonna just go [shit again]” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 10:10, 4th March)

“I know what I’m like, that’s the issue.” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 10:29, 4th March)

“Ohh, fuck! Did I- Did I do that? Oo, that’s not a good look, is it? That’s not a good look for me.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 53:06, 29th Apr)

“Ohhh. Ohh, no. Oh I really did a number on this place, huh? Oh ho, ho, ho boy! Oh dear! Oh no! I really did a number here.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 53:23, 29th Apr)

“I told you I needed to have a think. And I don’t think an apology will ever sum up what I did here, I mean, look at this mess.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 8:00, 5th May)

Well, I mean, yeah, I didn’t want a grave. I was hoping I’d go there and it was just be full of requiems and obituaries of horrible I was, and how much I was hated.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 10:51, 5th May)

“My destructive bounds. My destructiveness knows no bounds. Tommy, my destructiveness knows no bounds. Tommy, my destructiveness knows no bounds. Someone’s gotta stop me, someone’s gotta stop me, Tommy.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 13:05, 31st May)

“The thing is with this book, Tommy, is that it’s, it’s a… It’s a call from an old friend, who I haven’t seen in a long, long time. And I, you know, I feel like when we left off, we left off on a I assume a bad impression.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 17:52, 31st May)

“Every person we seem to have spoken to, aside from say, I don’t know… Jack Manifold. Every person aside from Jack Manifold, has taken a bit of a disliking to me. Oh and Phil, Phil was lovely too. And you actually. Come to think of it, the three people I care about most, Jack Manifold, you, and Phil, have been the nicest to me, you know. That might be a coincidence, who knows.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 19:24, 31st May)

“Quackity, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ll be honest you with you, I’ve lost everything, man. I, um. I’ve lost decades of my life. I’ve lost my- most of the people who cared about me. Some people don’t even know I’m back yet, and I, and I think that’s probably for the best. So I feel like that does humble a man. That really humbles a man, you know? Life is paved with the mistakes you make, and uh, it’s not about when you made the mistakes or what you did, it’s about how you can improve from them, you know? And that’s what um, I guess that’s what I’m trying to do.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 1:00:52, 31st May)

“I don’t know if they actually needed me, but I was there.” (Ranboo)

“I know that feel.” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 25:15, 25th July)

“Why? Why? … No, no, no, no, no, not the, not the bit about the, not the bit about the right foot, the why don’t you think I’m a bad person?” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 35:13, 25th July)

“Can I, Can I be real with you? Sorry, Ranboo, you really got me with that, fucking hell.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 36:24, 25th July)

“Can I be real with you, man? I think I scare people.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 36:30, 25th July)

“I mean, like I, I, I, I don’t think I, I- I think a lot of people share your idea, but they share your idea in trying to- trying to keep me from hurting them, you know? Like they’ve seen what I can do, and they don’t want me to do it again, so they adopt your emotion in order to do it.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 36:46, 25th July)

“I relived that explosion in my head so many times man. And, and, and I- I get that you don’t, you don’t trust me, I do, but like, man, look at me, bro, I’m not gonna do it again. I’m not gonna- I’m not gonna hurt you again.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 21:21, 3rd Aug)

Look at that, Ghostbur can do self-loathing times two by hating both himself as a ghost AND Alivebur:

“Well, he’s dead now, so let’s not talk about him.” - (Said by Ghostbur about Alivebur)

“It’s not me, Tubbo, you know that’s not me, I’m Ghostbur. I am different from regular one. He was a bad man, I’m not him.” - (Said by Ghostbur, likely on Tubbo’s stream from the 19th Nov that I can no longer find)

“Everyone likes me more now that I’m dead, Tubbo, to be honest with you. I’m having a much better time. Everyone prefers it when I’m dead. So, I’m perfectly happy being dead.” - (Tubbo’s President Things: 1:34.39, 19th Nov)

“Phil, how bad was I, Phil? Phil, how awful of a person was I?” - (Wilbur’s Amangus with new and old friends: 1:59:13, 24th Nov)

“I’m not him, Tubbo. I’m not… I’m not Wilbur.” - (Tubbo’s The Next Steps: 31:27, 7th Dec)

“Yeah! Because you finally put an end to Alivebur, and everyone didn’t like him. But from what I’ve seen, he sort of had the longest era of peace in L’Manberg.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:11:46, 16th Dec)

“That’s how you keep yourself sane. Yeah, that’s how I do it. When people say to me ‘Hey, Will, do you remember killing all your friends?’, I say ‘I didn’t do that, halalala’” (Tommy’s Alone?: 17:05, 19th Dec).

“Hey, Tommy, I was having a think about it, and I don’t think I want people to bring me back to life.” - (Tommy’s Alone?: 47:38, 19th Dec)

“I don’t know, I don’t think I want to be brought back to life.” - (Tommy’s Alone?: 47:52, 19th Dec)

“No, I just- I don’t know. I think I don’t wanna- People prefer Ghostbur. Dream likes Ghostbur!” - (Tommy’s Alone?: 48:34, 19th Dec)

“I’ve read the history books. You- You- You slayed the dragon, you slayed Alivebur. You were the- You- You are the St George of the Dream SMP. We understand, everyone understands that, Phil.” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 18:01, 6th Jan)

“I take it back, Tommy. Tommy, I take it back. I’m burning in the rain right now, and I just- Tommy, I want you to bring me back to life.” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 20:07, 6th Jan)

“Tommy, I know- I know I said- Tommy, I know how I said I didn’t want- I didn’t want to be brought back to life because I didn’t want to- Because that would mean me as Ghostbur would stop existing. But I want- I want you to bring me back to life. I don’t want to be Ghostbur anymore.” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 22:12, 6th Jan)

“Maybe everyone will like Alivebur again.” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 35:37, 6th Jan)

“Did Fundy like Alivebur?” (Ghostbur)

“He loved you.” (Eret)

“Oh! Well then there we go, that’s a good plan then!” (Ghostbur)

- (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 44:07, 6th Jan)

“I need to be killed. I-” (Ghostbur)

“There’s a fox out there who needs a father” (Eret)

“And there’s a world out there that needs a ruler. When I look at this crater I don’t- I don’t see- I don’t see somewhere that Ghostbur made better. I see somewhere that- that- that is owned by weakness. Eret, I’m not a strong man, I’m not a strong man.” (Ghostbur)

“You were a strong man.” (Eret)

Yeah, but I’m not a strong ghost. And I- This world needs strength right now, and I- It’s one of those things where I don’t want- I want to- Do it, Phil! Phil, do it!” (Ghostbur)

- (Philza’s trying to revive my son LOL: 36:37, 10th Jan)

“And I’ll- I’ll- I’ll be back, and the world can be strong again.” - (Philza’s trying to revive my son LOL: 37:31, 10th Jan)

-He’s been depressed since he became president

He doesn’t want to talk to people as a person during the election campaigns because the role of President was such a big thing to carry:

“Can I… talk to you like off the books and just… Can I talk to you as a person? Forget- forget the elections, forget the… the politics, forget we are politicians right now. I wanna talk to you up close. I wanna talk to you as a person.” (Quackity)

“Um… I mean I appreciate it- no. The election’s in twelve days” (Wilbur)

-(Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:03:23, 12th Apr)

He mentions being “a distant ruler” and regrets it:

“I mean, look, Tubbo, I’ll be the first one to say I didn’t always treat you the best on L’Manberg. And I know I didn’t! I was somewhat of a distant ruler, I pretty much only really- … Look, I wasn’t the best ruler, I know I wasn’t. I think I was a good ruler, but I-” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 1:21:50, 23rd Sep)

Ghostbur confirms that he was depressed:

“I just- I- I just remember I was in power, and I would- when I wasn’t on a stage I would cry a lot, and- and scream into my pillow until I felt better. That’s what I- but I don’t remember why I would do that”

- (Tubbo’s THE GREAT REBUILDING: 2:14:18, 17th Nov)

“Tubbo I recommend you buy a pillow”

- (Tubbo’s THE GREAT REBUILDING: 2:14:33, 17th Nov)

-He gave up the presidency peacefully and thought it fair if he lost because of the coalition he himself allowed

“Look. I could always push things off as an autocracy, I could always start just making myself the dictator of L’Manberg. But I don’t want to do that.” - (Wilbur’s is about to change forever: 29:24, 3rd Sep)

“What happens if we lose the nation, Wilbur?” (Tommy)

“Well, then whoever wins takes over, w- what do you mean?” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s vod jschlatt gets unbanned from the Dream SMP: 1:45:50, 20th Sep)

“Tommy, we’re citizens tonight. Just listen to Schlatt.” (Wilbur’s vid How Schlatt stole the Election of the Dream SMP: 7:58)

“I called for this democratic process, and now he’s ousted me from my government. This- I’m fucking speechless, I’m speechless.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 26:12, 22nd Sep)

“We held this election, and by god am I not gonna upset democracy just so that I can keep hold of- This is what the people want, we shall give the people what they want- But Tommy, I am not gonna die with you out here. We need to stay alive. That would be enough.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 46:06, 22nd Sep)

“Tommy, we allowed the coalition. On the day, they said they were gonna make a coalition, and our cockiness, our arrogance got in ahead of us, and we allowed it. We said ‘yes coalition governments are allowed’.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:09:35, 8th Oct)

He was quite literally exiled and chased out of his nation when he gave up the presidency fairly and died in the process while people cheered in the background (and he still hold some resentment for it, which is completely fair if anything):

“Who ran against you! Who laughed as we were exiled! Who cheered as we were thrown out of our nation, that we built, WE BUILT!” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 46:39, 31st May)

-He hesitated regarding the button tons of times, he also wanted people to stop him, he told his plans to people clearly and tried to be reasoned out of it (the more emotional approaches didn’t quite get through to him)

“I- Look, rigging L’Manberg is not gonna help us get it back, I’m aware of that. But sometimes in order to feel comfortable and safe you have to be ready to give up the things that you’re worried you might lose. And in this case, I think I might lose it already.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:17:57, 8th Oct)

“Why did you give me a cake of Niki? Why did you give me a cake that Niki made? What are you trying to imply? Are you trying to imply I shouldn’t be doing it because of Niki, huh?” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 19:11, 16th Oct)

“I know there’s a lot of people, Tommy! … I’m not telling you where the button is, man. … Tommy, it’s over that hill, it’s over that hill, right there!” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 28:30, 16th Oct)

“Tommy, I’m getting second thoughts. These are my friends, I don’t- Do I- I don’t know if I wanna [inaudible].” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 36:17, 16th Oct)

“But this is the opportunity- this is the opportunity. If I don’t blow it up now, when am I gonna blow it up?! When am I gonna blow it up, Tommy? But when do- when do we do-” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 36:30, 16th Oct)

“If I don’t do it now, what happens if this is the only chance I get. Everyone’s in this close situation, I can do some proper damage. Look, this isn’t a- He needs a consequence for his actions, Schlatt does, he can’t just keep being handsome and powerful and strong all the time. He needs, he needs to be put down a peg.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 37:07, 16th Oct)

“I can still call off this whole detonating at the end of the speech, dude. I can call it off.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 38:24, 16th Oct)

“Should I show you where the TNT’s laced? ‘Cause in a, in a last ditch effort, we may need to destroy it by hand, okay? So, under the chair, where Schlatt sits, there’s about twenty pieces, right? And then going under, under the main area here, following this red line, there is TNT all the way, and then it jut- and then it- … It darts up here, and over to the dance floor, but it doesn’t touch the water.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 38:29, 16th Oct)

“I have to light it, I’ve got to light it, I’ve got to light it.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:08:17, 16th Oct)

“Techno, when I set it off next time, you ready to pop some withers in there as well?” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:28:42, 16th Oct)

“I thought today was gonna be my last time here, honestly. I genuinely, I was considering, blowing up L’Manberg, having a big moment where I’m like looking over the rubble, and I’m like ‘I’ve changed as a person’. But like after this, I am just deeper. I wanna do different, more blowing up things.” (Wilbur’s The Festival: 1:29:34, 16th Oct)

“We waited too long. I just want chaos. I don’t care about like when we blow everything up, you know?” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 7:24, 17th Oct)

“And I thought, what better time of just eradicating the nation and eradicating him than right now. I can finally do what I said I was gonna, you know, that I said I was gonna do.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 24:00, 17th Oct)

“Tommy, we’ve tried my ideas. I’m willing to listen to you. I’m gonna follow you, Tommy. Whatever you think is gonna be the best way of taking down Schlatt, we’ll do it. We’ve tried my ideas.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 32:01, 17th Oct)

“My L’Manberg. My L’Manberg. As long- As long as I know the button is here… as long as I know. As long as I know the button is here. It’s just not today. I just need to know that it’s there for a fall-back. I need to know it’s there.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 33:46, 17th Oct)

“I’ve been hasty. But the fact that I know it’s there, and I can just stroke my right mouse button, that’s all I need. As long as I know it’s there.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 34:27, 17th Oct)

“I’ll be back. I’ll be back for this.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 34:45, 17th Oct)

“You’ve convinced me, I don’t wanna go straight to Plan B, if Plan A fails.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 39:02, 17th Oct)

“I have a lot of TNT ready to go. I can definitely blow up L’Manberg.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 7:40, 6th Nov)

“It’s Plan Bomb, it’s Plan Bomb, we’re doing Plan Bomb, yeah? That’s Plan Bomb.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 19:25, 6th Nov)

“Well, no, but I will though, that’s the- you know- it’s Chekhov’s Gun, we’ve spoken about this.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 27:59, 6th Nov)

“Dream, let’s do this as a gentlemen’s duel then, you know. Instead of doing like a bit of a dirty war that we’re planning at the moment, how about we just do it like gentlemanly? We pick a date, we pick a time, and we have the war, and if it all goes tits up, I blow the shit up.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 42:59, 6th Nov)

“And then that’s the be-all or end-all, that is either we take Manberg back - and Dream you fight us as much as you want for Manberg - and- or on the other side, we blow it all up! That’s the be-all or end-all, that’s where it either- It’s ends. It ends on the 16th. We have to end it.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 43:47, 6th Nov)

“I could be. I mean at the end of the day, my traitoring would be very anticlimactic ‘cause it would just involve me doing the exact thing I’ve said I’m gonna do for the past month. Which is detonate everything.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 53:48, 6th Nov)

“I sort of made a deal with Dream. Look, I made a deal with Dream. I’m fighting on your side, I’ll fight for the side of L’Manberg. But the minute you guys start losing, I’m detonating that entire thing. I’m blowing the entire place up. And Dream said that’s fine, Dream said that’s allowed. So that’s what I’m doing.” - (Wilbur’s The Meeting: 58:44, 6th Nov)

“Look, Tommy, at the end of the day, if this doesn’t go well, I’m gonna blow the place to smithereens. The place will be gone, I’m gonna detonate it and blow it to smithereens, right, if this doesn’t go well. But it will go well…! … ‘Cause it’s literally- there’s no one on Schlatt’s side.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 21:00, 16th Nov)

“But none of them have the same anticipatory love of what they’re doing, unlike us. Everyone on our side is fighting for something we’ve loved, and had for ages, right. That’s why we’re gonna win, and that’s why you shouldn’t be afraid. And yes, the whole place is rigged.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 21:38, 16th Nov)

“I could, I really could, that’s the thing. That’s the bit that I like. It’s the bit that makes me smile the most is the fact that I definitely could.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 26:28, 16th Nov)

“I thought I was the trai- Okay. Sure. Um. … I mean, it’s pretty obvious, wasn’t it? I mean- Well, okay, I mean, I guess, that’s… Yeah, we, we won…” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:02:15, 16th Nov)

“I thought I was the traitor… I thought I was the traitor…” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:02:37, 16th Nov)

“Chekhov’s Gun. Chekhov’s Gun. I’ll be honest with you, chat, I’ve been wondering this whole time if it still works. I’ve been thinking to myself does it still- ‘Cause I fixed it up for today.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:11:36, 16th Nov)

He also was completely stopped by Tommy and Quackity just being there and in danger within the explosion room (he only wanted to take himself down with L’Manburg, that TNT originally inside the button room was to take just himself out. His intentions are clear in these quotes, he no longer believes in surviving the explosion):

“Explain it to me! Give me a reason! Give me a reason!” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 26:50, 17th Oct)

“Who else is it gonna hurt?! It’s gonna hurt Schlatt, Manberg, and-” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 26:55, 17th Oct)

“Why did I bring- I should have just done it. I’m such a fucking showman. I should have just done it.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 27:18, 17th Oct)

“No you two can escape, I’ll be the… I’ll- I’ll- I’ll be… I’ll be trapped in here…” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 27:27, 17th Oct)

“I just- I just want to f… I just wanna end it, I wanna end it. I wanna press that button, man.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 28:08, 17th Oct)

“I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want to kill you two. I don’t want you two to die.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 28:53, 17th Oct)

“Ohh, fuck you! Fuck you, man! Why do you make it so hard?! I should have just- I’m such a fucking showman.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 29:29, 17th Oct)

-He really cared and cares about L’manburg, and didn’t wat its ideals twisted to hurt others with

“What is your wildest dream?” (Tommy)

“A nation where we can brew drugs without anyone stopping us.” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s The Wall: 5:26, 29th July)

“No matter what happens, no matter- Even if he comes- Even he destroys the very hot dog van that we live out of. Until the day we stop breathing, that is when L'Manberg has fallen. He can destroy the walls, he can slaughter our friends, our family, but until the day we stop breathing, and the moment that the dream we have of a self-emancipated nation away from Dream SMP falls- is the minute we let go of that dream, that’s when he has won.” - (Tommy’s World At War Vod: 1:16:04)

“Dream. When you imprisoned our men, slayed us, and your men essentially did great wrongs against my people, I let go, I let it slide on the condition that we would have emancipation from you, we’d have our freedom, and we wouldn’t have to reach a point of disagreement that we were reaching.” - (Wilbur’s The Revolution is Coming: 24:36, 2nd Aug)

“We don’t wish for bloodshed, we don’t wish for war, we don’t wish to show our power in any way, we just want our freedom, we just want emancipation, independence.” - (Wilbur’s The Revolution is Coming: 26:02, 2nd Aug)

“Look, Tommy we’ve always allowed women. Do you remember when we were making the decree it was, it doesn’t matter your sexuality, your gender, your race, you can join L’Manberg.” - (Wilbur’s Niki joins L'Manberg: 18:16, 6th Aug)

“They aren’t old school, these polices were formed from blood not long ago. … With the idea of liberty. … Of course they had to grow from war, we were oppressed! We were an oppressed people, Quackity. I led these people to freedom, and I will keep and uphold the polices which freed us.” - (Wilbur’s The Election Campaign: 46:55, 8th Sep)

“But what does matter to me, is that the fact that the leader of tyranny, who we fought for independence to get away from, is endorsing my opposition to become head of the very nation we’re trying to escape!” - (Wilbur’s The Election Campaign: 1:17:08, 8th Sep)

“My name’s been through enough. You need to fight for what this country believes in. Ignore what Dream says to me, I can take it.” - (Wilbur’s The Election Campaign: 1:18:52, 8th Sep)

“Literally we have the man himself, the man who led a war against our nation, is trying to talk to us like L’Manberg is some kind of nation for the conquering for him. To him, to him, we are just a conquest. We are not- He doesn’t care about our nation, he doesn’t care about us. … Listen, TommyInnit, GeorgeNotFound doesn’t care about us, he doesn’t care about our nation. All GeorgeNotFound cares about is adding another thing to his conquest, and Quackity is enabling this, right.” - (Wilbur’s The Election Campaign: 1:29:26, 8th Sep)

“What has made you do everything you’ve done up to this point?” (Quackity)

“That’s a- That’s a big question… um… I guess it’s- just- protection for my people, I mean I-I-I-I just want to see them thrive and I want to see them safe” (Wilbur)

-(Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:03:03, 12th Apr)

“Your aspirations of optimism are not going to be subject to my nation’s security I’m afraid. I- I completely disagree with everything you’ve said.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:05:18, 12th Apr)

“I just want you to know, Big Q, that like, you know. I think, although we’ve had our differences and we’ve had our argument and stuff. Although we’ve had our disagreements and we’ve fought and stuff, I think we’re both looking out for the greater good of L’Manberg, you know. Much more than that Coconut2020 or whatever they’re called.” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 45:00, 20th Sep)

“I said, the one thing I appreciate about Big Q, right, no matter what he says, right, he cares about L’Manberg, right. He really cares about L’Manberg. Even if his policies are direct opposites of mine, he at least cares about L’Manberg. These people just want power, they just want attention, right? So how about, in the case that Schlatt or Coconut, gets more votes than POG or SWAG, we make the POSWAGs” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 1:07:38, 20th Sep)

“Coconut is against everything we stand for. They don’t care. They don’t care about L’Manberg, they just care about votes. We care about L’Manberg, and so did SWAG until they-” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 1:15:58, 20th Sep)

“They’re gonna tear down the walls… … Tommy. They say they’re gonna tear down the walls. They’re gonna open it up to Americans. Our safe space! Our safe space. Remember, remember when we made the park? That was fun. Remember the Camarvan? Remember all the history we’ve had here? They’re gonna tear it down.” - (Wilbur’s Election Night: 1:18:17, 20th Sep)

“This isn’t- This isn’t- I’m not gonna be able to do anything to stop them tearing down the walls. I just need to have one- I’m doing this for principle, I’m doing this for tradition. I need to just have one last look, TommyInnit. I need to look at it one more time before it’s gone.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 38:18, 22nd Sep)

“No, I need to- I need to watch this, I need to- This was- This is a huge part of my- I need to, I need to- It would be- It’s like not turning up to a funeral.” - (Wilbur’s the election results: 39:21, 22nd Sep)

“Will there be a L’Manberg after tonight?” (Tommy)

“Not as we know it.” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s the election results: 50:03, 22nd Sep)

“Killing Schlatt wouldn’t do anything, killing Schlatt wouldn’t fix a single thing, that would not fix a single issue. ‘Cause then Quackity would just become President, and who knows if that would be worse, and then George would be Vice President. Then if we kill Quackity, then George would be President. It means nothing, Tommy. It wouldn’t have mattered if you killed him or not.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:07:52, 8th Oct)

“Then let’s be the bad guys. Tommy, why not? Why not? Look, our nation’s gone, our nation’s far behind us, Tommy. Let’s blow that motherfucker to smithereens.” - (Wilbur’s video Am I the Villain?: 16:33)

“What’s the point, Tommy? What’s the point in rebuilding this entire place from scratch?” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:14:07, 8th Oct)

“How are you gonna make Schlatt lose?” (Tubbo)

“By destroying the one thing we care about.” (Alivebur)

- (Tubbo reacts to Wilbur Soots evil plan! [yt clip]: 8:15, 13th Oct)

“T- Tommy, your only decree as President happened to be one of the best decrees you could have ever make! Welcome to L’Manberg, L’Manberg, welcome, please use the name correctly from here on. And so in keeping with the theme, I am also going to do a change.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:07:27, 16th Nov)

“That flag you that see over there, the obsidian one, scrap it. That is not the national flag of our nation. The national flag of our nation is yellow, black, red, white, and blue. And that’s how it should be, and that’s one of the first things I want changed.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:07:43, 16th Nov)

“And this is something I want this to be one last time. It’s important to know how to say goodbye to a nation, to my L’Manberg.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:08:47, 16th Nov)

“That there was a special place, there was, was a special place, where men could go and emancipate, you know. And there was definitely, that special place did exist once, it did. It did. But even with Tubbo in charge, I don’t think it can exist again. I don’t think it can exist again.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:12:22, 16th Nov)

“The thing that I built this nation for doesn’t exist anymore! The thing I worked towards doesn’t exist anymore! It’s over.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:13:11, 16th Nov)

“I was just saying, I made this big point, and it was poignant, and it was that, it’s um, that there was a special place where men could go but it’s not there anymore, you know. It’s not-” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:14:43, 16th Nov)

“Uh, one thing, I didn’t actually really care about L'Manberg, I just cared about, you know, sticking it to the man. Actually, I cared about L'Manberg for the sole reason that I could use it to stick it to the man.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 24:18, 5th May)

“Look, I- Okay, I said it wrong. Look, I did care about- I did care about L'Manberg, but I cared about it for- You would call it the wrong reasons, but I, I- Just don’t think about it, don’t think about it too hard. Look, L'Manberg’s gone now, we’ve got that, you know- That, that wart on my side is gone, you know. I salute it, I salute it, you know, it was a great- It was a great place.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 25:18, 5th May)

“Look, Tommy, I’m gonna reiterate for you once more because I don’t think you quite understood, and that’s okay, you know, you don’t need to understand everything. I did care about L'Manberg. I did, I did. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet, Tommy. L'Manberg would have been as loved by me had it been called Bimbum and was built in the middle of the desert.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 26:05, 5th May)

“The actual location, and the actual things it was, it were, were not important to me. It’s the thing it stood for. Which was freedom, liberty, and sticking it to the man, Tommy!” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 26:26, 5th May)

“We were a family, Tommy. We were…” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 27:26, 5th May)

“Yeah, it’s great. I personally am a big, big fan of the song. Not just 'cause I wrote, I know, you know they say, you know they always say you are your own worst critic. But, I mean, I, I think it’s good.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 8:07, 3rd Aug)

“Anyway, I’m excited, let’s go to L'Manberg. Or to what was L'Man- It’s just a big glass thing now, isn’t it?” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 10:56, 3rd Aug)

“I- Ah- It’s kinda- I’m not a fan. It’s kinda rude to L'Manberg’s history, you know? It’s called L'Manberg. It’s called L'Manberg. Not Manberg, not L'Crater, or whatever. L'Manhole… I don’t care. It’s now, L'Manberg. It’s always L'Manberg. It’s just how it goes.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 11:06, 3rd Aug)

“Ohh! It’s got the flag, man! Can we go down and see the flag?! Come on, come on, come on! Fuck, get me down there, get me down there. Shit, I’m struggling to climb! I’m like a lemming. I don’t care, I’m just gonna jump!” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 11:49, 3rd Aug)

“See, this is, this is what it deserved. Not that glass bullshit, you know? This is what it needed. It needed this like, this like beautiful overgrown, like- It feels like, it feels like, it feels like, you know, it happened now, you know? It doesn’t just feel like, it doesn’t just feel like, 'oh yeah it’s a monument’. It feels like- This is- You know, nature’s claimed it back and this is the world.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 12:14, 3rd Aug)

“It’s weird seeing you here.” (Tubbo)

“Wha- What, in L'Manberg? That seems like the most normal place to see me, right?” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 13:57, 3rd Aug)

“Sorry, that’s kinda… hit me. Not, not the blowing up part, I mean, I’ve done that. You know, I’m not, I’m not shaken up about that. The thing I’m shaken up about, man, is that, you rebuilt this. After I’d gone.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 18:48, 3rd Aug)

“Oh yeah the fucking ghost- Who car- You rebuilt this!” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 19:03, 3rd Aug)

“Fuck a grave. I was so pressed about not having a grave. Screw a grave. I built something that you… that you love, that you wanted to preserve, that’s- Tubbo, that’s worth more to me than a grave, that’s worth more to me than this shrine, that’s worth more-” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 19:09, 3rd Aug)

“You feel lost without, without a nation. I guess that’s where anarchy fails.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 19:51, 3rd Aug)

“Yeah we fought against Dream, uh, and we managed to- We succeeded and we created a life for ourselves.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:13, 3rd Aug)

“I didn’t even tell Tommy, I lied to Tommy, I’ll be honest. I’m gonna tell him soon that I lied to him because it kinda eats away at me.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:29, 3rd Aug)

“I told Tommy that I didn’t actually care about L'Manberg, and that it was just like a tool for me to use to gain like, you know, power and stuff. But it’s not, it’s not true.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:36, 3rd Aug)

“L'Manberg is- was really important to me. And it is still to this day.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:47, 3rd Aug)

“I want it to, em, I want its history to live on not as a stain caused by me, you know. I basically just took a big shit on the history books, it feels like. I wanna, I wanna make it, I wanna make it feel like it was, you know, it was something that happened. You know, it was a great thing, you know, think of the good times. The- The years of safety. Well, not years, but you know.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:47, 3rd Aug)

“The time of safety, the time of fun, prosperity, you know. We built parks, we had, you know, no taxes, we had big walls. We had democracy. Albeit, a slightly disjointed version of it. But, you know. I want, that’s how people remember L'Manberg. That’s what people think of when they think of our nation.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 26:47, 3rd Aug)

“And you know, Tubbo, Tubbo’s the last connection we really have. I mean, he… he’d said it himself he’s kind of, you know, he’s got nothing without it.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 27:36, 3rd Aug)

“I’ve heard about what- what- Tommy’s, you know, moved on, and how Jack’s moved on, and Niki’s moved on, and everyone’s moved on from L'Manberg, at least partially, but Tubbo, man, he’s still…” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 27:45, 3rd Aug)

“I think he’s gonna be alright. He’s gonna be alright. I’m looking at him, I’m looking out for him here.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 28:14, 3rd Aug)

Ghostbur wore this care for L’Manburg and its people on his sleeve as well (and rebuilt most of it when making New L’Manburg):

“Everything for L’Manberg. For L’Manberg, my L’Manberg.” - (Wilbur’s Amangus with new and old friends: 1:46:29, 24th Nov)

“This doesn’t look like something L’Manberg would build.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:08:03, 16th Dec)

“And Tubbo shot you with a bow!” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:09:08, 16th Dec)

“I thought Tubbo was the- Tubbo’s a good guy.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:09:16, 16th Dec)

“I’m going to go see this cage.” *starts singing the first verse of the anthem* - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:17:18, 16th Dec)

“I wrote the verses! I wrote the second and third verses it was a very happy memory for me.“ - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:17:44, 16th Dec)

“Phil, I don’t think a cage is very indicative of L’Manberg. I’m going to get rid of the cage.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:18:16, 16th Dec)

“Freedom! This entire nation’s about freedom and doing whatever you want.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:19:41, 16th Dec)

“I just destroyed the cage, I destroyed the shackles of oppression, I have drained the bog- the mire of injustice, and I have found peace in a land of tyranny!” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:19:47, 16th Dec)

“Ranboo, don’t you think Phil can leave his house? He can leave his house, can’t he, Ranboo?” (Ghostbur)

“He can’t, he’s legally not able to.” (Ranboo)

“But- Where men can go and emancipate. Do you know what emancipate means?” (Ghostbur)

- (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:20:05, 16th Dec)

“But L’Manberg’s all about freedom, and doing whatever you want, and being able to be whoever you want and go where you want.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:20:25, 16th Dec)

“I just took down the cage that you built, ‘cause I think that was a mistake. And I think maybe Philza should be let out of his house because he’s a citizen of L’Manberg.” - (Philza’s Just a regular day: 1:20:35, 16th Dec)

“Why- Why did you- Why did you blow up L’Manberg?” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 17:19, 6th Jan)

“You knew Friend was in your house! You knew! Stop! Stop! Stop! You knew Friend was in your house! You knew everything everyone owned was in this town!” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 17:39, 6th Jan)

“I don’t- I don’t- I don’t- I don’t want to listen- I don’t want to hear what you have to say. I don’t want to have to hear what you have to say. I- I- I’ve read the history books, Phil. I’ve read the history books. You- You- You slayed the dragon, you slayed Alivebur. You were the- You- You are the St George of the Dream SMP. We understand, everyone understands that, Phil. But, look what you’ve done. How can you look at this and still see yourself as a hero. Sending a message, Phil. Sending a message?” - (Wilbur’s First Time Ghostbur Live: 17:58, 6th Jan)

“Me? I’ve just been, you know, having a nice time wandering. I’ve been wandering around L’Manberg, something keeps drawing me to L’Manberg, so I’ve just sorta been hanging out there. I don’t really know what I’m gonna do.” - (Tubbo’s Exploding Stuff w/ Tommy: 39:05, 22nd Apr)

“I don’t know it just feels like I have to be there, you know?” - (Tubbo’s Exploding Stuff w/ Tommy: 39:17, 22nd Apr)

-He didn’t leave, nor escaped consequences, nor pressured Phil into killing him. He committed suicide

“No you two can escape, I’ll be the… I’ll- I’ll- I’ll be… I’ll be trapped in here…” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 27:27, 17th Oct)

“I just- I just want to f… I just wanna end it, I wanna end it. I wanna press that button, man.” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 28:08, 17th Oct)

“Phil, I’m always so close to pressing this button, Phil! I have been here, like seven or eight times I have been here… Seven or eight times” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:14:56, 16th Nov)

“Phil, I’ve been here here so many times.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:15:13, 16th Nov)

“I don’t even know if it works anymore, Phil. I don’t even know if the button works. I could, I could… press it, and it might-” (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:15:29, 16th Nov)

“There was a saying, Phil, by a traitor, once part of L’Manberg. A traitor I don’t know if you’ve heard of Eret? He had a saying, Phil. It was never meant to be.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:15:56, 16th Nov)

“My L’Manberg, Phil! My unfinished symphony! Forever unfinished! If I can’t have this, no one can, Phil!” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:16:40, 16th Nov)

“Kill me Phil. Phil kill me. Phil, kill me. Phil, stab me with a sword, murder me now. Kill me. Killza. Killza. Do it. Murder me. Look, they all want you to! Do it Phil, kill me. Phil, kill me.” - (Wilbur’s video Finale: 30:22)

“God you’re… You’re my son!” (Philza)

“Phil, kill me!” (Wilbur)

-(Wilbur’s video Finale: 30:34)

“Look! Look! How much work went into this and it’s gone?!” - (Wilbur’s video Finale: 30:42)

“Do it. Do it.” - (Wilbur’s smithereens: 1:17:20, 16th Nov)

“Do you wanna be alive again?” (Tubbo)

“Oh, hell no. No. God, oh god.” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:29:22, 20th Jan)

“We can bring you back.” (Tommy)

“W– What?” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:31:46, 20th Jan)

“The reason why Dream isn’t dead now, off his own server, banned, is because we can bring you back.” (Tommy)

“Y– W– I– But I– I– I don’t- I don’t wanna- I- I don’t.” (Alivebur)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:31:53, 20th Jan)

“Are you sure?” (Tubbo)

- (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:32:09, 20th Jan)

“Guys, I– What the fuck have you done?! What have you done?! The one thing I wanted was to stay fucking dead!” - (Tommy’s The Dream SMP Finale: 1:33:30, 20th Jan)

“Think about it, everything that’s gone wrong, is down to us, it lies at our footsteps.” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 9:59, 4th March)

“I know what I’m like, that’s the issue.” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 10:29, 4th March)

“Tommy, I thought I wanted to die. All those- That decade and and a half ago, I thought I wanted to die. I thought I wanted to die, but now I’ve seen what hell is, now I’ve seen the other side!” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 58:05, 29th Apr)

“Are you trying to- Are you trying to make me- Tommy, are you trying to make me- You remember that time in the cave? Are you trying- Are you trying do- Are you trying to make me feel like I did back then, in Pogtopia? Are you trying to- Are you trying to make me feel as bad as I did back then? ‘Cause it’s not gonna work!” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 59:06, 29th Apr)

-He wasn't in fact abusive in Pogtopia

Since this would be proving a negative, refer back to prior points regarding his care for people, his situation during Pogtopia, his care for L'Manburg and its people, etc

-He’s only taken one life (which was canonized only in retrospect)

This was Jack Manifold's second life, canonized as being killed by Wilbur in the Manburg vs Pogtopia war, so... you know... A goddamn WAR. And this was also not a canon life at the time, being turned canon in retrospect due to the canonization of Jack "losing his lives and going to hell just to crawl out of it"

-He wanted Phil to be proud of him and not worry (which is why he lied in the letters)

“I miss Philza. I wonder if he’d be proud of me.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 52:17, 16th Oct)

“I’m excited to meet Phil. I, I hope he-” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 44:10, 5th May)

“Phil, I- … Phil, I’ve made an agreement with myself that I wouldn’t lie now that I’ve been brought back to life, because the thing is, Phil, I wasn’t that big of a liar in the first place but just y- Try- Imagine you’re at summer camp, Phil! Imagine you’re away at summer camp, and you’re having the worst shit time of your life but your parents are paying good money for it right. And your parents ask you, 'hey, how are you doing at summer camp?’, I’m not gonna write back, 'Oh yeah, it’s fine, the counsellor’s just burnt down the group house, but we’re having a great time!’. You know, no, I’m gonna tell you it’s going great, I’m gonna tell you it’s marvellous. I did it to save your feelings, Phil, and I’m… I’m sorry I forgot to write, and that’s why you ended up coming down, but, like it’s not- It wasn’t spite, it wasn’t spite, I promise.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 50:37, 5th May)

-He tends to project his own feelings when talking to other people about how he sees they feel

“When I look at you, as a fellow outsider… you’re not ready for that. I’m leaving.” - (Quackity’s Killing My Enemies: 1:06:48, 12th Apr)

“Tommyinnit, you’re scared that people are gonna think differently of you. Tommy, when I said you’re never gonna be president, you gotta understand, that wasn’t a challenge, that’s true. You’re never gonna be president, Tommy. And I can hear it in your voice, you’re trying sound like you know what you’re doing, so that you can prove me wrong. Tommy, none of us know what we’re doing. We’re fucked, we were fucked the minute we were thrown out.” - (Wilbur’s video Am I the Villain?: 19:39)

“Think about it, everything that’s gone wrong, is down to us, it lies at our footsteps.” - (Tommy’s am i dead?: 9:59, 4th March)

“Sounds like you’ve set yourself up for a bit of a stressful life with this.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 26:23, 25th July)

“I’ve been investing into the wrong areas, Ranboo. I’ve been investing into the wrong, wrong people. We’re kindred, man. We get each other.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 39:13, 25th July)

“We may have so much different, but you know what the one thing we’ve got in common, our strongest point, and you mustn’t take offence to this. Neuroticism.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 39:26, 25th July)

“Me and you are just as neurotic as each other, just as nervous. But the thing is, it’s not our downfall, you know. Anxiety isn’t necessarily, you know, an evil trait to have. Anxiety is what kept our ancestors alive, Ranboo. You, me, your parents, whoever they may be, my parents. Do you know how they’re alive? Because they were anxious. They didn’t let another thing kill them, they didn’t let another thing take them down. Our ancestors, the cavemen in the words, or caveendermen, I guess. They were anxious when they heard the lion roar, the were anxious when they heard the wolf howl. And you know what they did? They got inside and they hid. And that’s why we’re here today.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 39:37, 25th July)

“Ranboo, me and you are neurotic, and that’s why we’re alive right now, talking to each other and doing this.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 40:25, 25th July)

-He feels inhuman. He knows that people see him as a freak, evil or crazy and that makes him feel dehumanized

“TommyInnit, as you know, is just, he thinks I’m insane. I’m not insane, chat, I’m not insane.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 4:30, 16th Oct)

“See, I’m not so crazy, Tommy. I know what I’m doing.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 16:40, 16th Oct)

“I’ve told you, I’m not crazy, Tommy. I know what I’m doing, and this is genuinely the best thing we could do right now.” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 17:18, 16th Oct)

“I’m not crazy! How am I crazy?!” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 43:18, 17th Oct)

“History is written by the winners.” (Ghostbur)

“Yeah, and he, he technically won. I mean, he did what he wanted to.” (Ranboo)

“But then he lost and everyone hates him.” (Ghostbur)

- (Ranboo’s Preparation: 13:55, 14th Mar)

“Everyone I seem to meet has this deep intrisnic feeling of disgust towards me. Jack Manifold seemed to be quite nice to me, but I reckon he, I could feel it, you know, in his stare. But like, you don’t have that. I can tell you’re a good guy.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 30:24, 5th May)

“Listen, Phil, I met, I met Quackity. After you very kindly lent me your house. I went and met him. Yeah! I met up with him, and I hadn’t seen him in ages. It was, I’m gonna say it, it was nice. It was a nice time. I- I- It felt good, it felt, uh, you know, he didn’t, he didn’t seem afraid of me, which is cool.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 7:38, 25th July)

“Not many people do. I mean, Phil, you don’t seem afraid of me, you’re not afraid of me, are you, Phil?” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 8:03, 25th July)

“Good, good. 'Cause I’m not afraid of you.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 8:10, 25th July)

“Can I be real with you, man? I think I scare people.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 36:30, 25th July)

“Dream is- He’s had his comeuppance, and I have not! My comeuppance was apparently not good enough for this people. They’re just waiting, they’re waiting for the next thing for me to slip up on, and, Ranboo, I’m not gonna fucking slip up, Ranboo. I’m different.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 38:07, 25th July)

“I’m living in eternal limbo, again. I’ve been through limbo, I’m out of limbo, and socially, I’m still in this limbo.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 38:36, 25th July)

“Ranboo, I want to say thank you, man, for, you know, for trusting me this quick. I mean you’ve barely, you’ve barely known me like, you know, very long, and you’ve instantly just, you know. You’ve done all this with me and you’ve worked with me, and I- You know, I don’t, I don’t know where I’d be without you here right now, man” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 28:20, 3rd Aug)

“When I look at him… When I look at him, when he’s helping me out, building things with me… I see the same eyes that looked at me when, when…” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 28:43, 3rd Aug)

“There weren’t some fun times in the ravine of Pogtopia. I wasn’t a very well man. And I can just see Tommy from that day.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 28:54, 3rd Aug)

“But like I was saying, though, Ranboo, I, I really appreciate it, man. I- Thank you for trusting me.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 29:11, 3rd Aug)

“I feel alive, Ranboo, I feel alive. Someone’s looking at me and talking to me! I’m alive, I’m alive! This is great.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 27:22, 4th Aug)

-He did in fact spend 13 and a half years in limbo. Alone. In the dark. Deprived of everything

“I- I feel so numb, I feel… Who- Wh- Are you- Who the fuck- Who the fuck is this- Who the fuck’s, Friend?” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 52:28, 29th Apr)

“I’m sor- I’ve obviously- No, no, no, no. I’ve obviously missed a beat here. I’ve missed a beat. What’s happening? Why am I here?” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 52:54, 29th Apr)

“I have spent thirteen and a half years, in the fucking-!” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 54:05, 29th Apr)

“I can- I can feel…” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 54:23, 29th Apr)

“Tommy, I- Tommy, I don’t know if you remember- … Tommy, I don’t if you- Do you remember when you came to visit me briefly? That was lovely, by the way. I cherished that day you came to visit me, TommyInnit. I cherished that. Remember when we played competitive solitaire for like three months! It was brilliant! I wish you’d dropped in longer.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 55:29, 29th Apr)

Tommy, I don’t know if you remember me telling you this, it was quite a few years ago for me now. But my personal limbo was a train platform, Tommy. It was a train platform. No matter where I look, no matter where I went, just concrete walls all around, and a tube with a track running straight along.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 56:33, 29th Apr)

“It doesn’t matter what I did, Tommy. I could claw on the walls, I could bash on the doors, I could scream for help- I screamed until my lungs were sore, till my voice was hoarse. And nothing ever changes, nothing ever comes, nothing ever helps you, Tommy.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 57:00, 29th Apr)

“And then you arrive, you arrive, and it was great! And then you left. You got on a train and you left.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 57:12, 29th Apr)

“Well, I, I’m in my forties now, Tommy. I mean, I’m- Uh. I counted the years, man. How old are you now, what, you must be like, what, twenty, thirty? You’re in your twenties, thirties now? How old are you? I mean it’s been a long time. It’s been thirteen years.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 9:00, 5th May)

“I had thirteen years, I had thirteen years in complete solitude, Phil. Mostly complete solitude. In a dim room. No, no, Phil, it’s like method acting. I’ve- I- I- I- I- Honestly, if you’d got me out of there about six years into it, man, you would have not liked to see me then. I was, I was not in a good state six years ago. But now, man, now, thirteen years later? It’s like I came full circle, I’m a new man, I’m a fresh face. Isn’t that right, Tommy?” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 52:07, 5th May)

“Okay. Tubbo, I’ve literally- I was dead for thirteen years. I know it wasn’t long for you, I know it was only a couple months for you, but, thirteen years, Tubbo. Thirteen years of my life. I aged! Look at me, I’m not the same young man you knew!” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 20:52, 3rd Aug)

“I’ve, I’ve been through it. And in those thirteen years, Tubbo, I wasn’t just sat twiddling my thumbs just going 'Oo this is nice, oh, I’m in darkness right now’. You know, I was, I was thinking.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 21:10, 3rd Aug)

He’s missing huge chunks of information, even with some of Ghostbur’s memories (since he doesn’t know about doomsday, we can know that he at least doesn’t exactly know about everything Ghostbur even saw, and with Ghostbur’s memory issues in mind, we could assume he’s missing whatever Ghostbur’s mind considered a “bad memory”):

“Ohh, fuck! Did I- Did I do that? Oo, that’s not a good look, is it? That’s not a good look for me.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 53:06, 29th Apr)

“Ohhh. Ohh, no. Oh I really did a number on this place, huh? Oh ho, ho, ho boy! Oh dear! Oh no! I really did a number here.” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 53:23, 29th Apr)

“I remember the prison, because I’ve got- I remember some of what Ghostbur remembers.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 12:21, 5th May)

“He seems- I remember him as a good guy. Ghostbur really liked this guy. I have this memory.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 27:59, 5th May)

“So, Las Nevadas, Snowchester… I thought- Techno and Phil told me they were successful- Well, just Phil, I haven’t spoken to Techno since it happened. But like, Phil told me that they were successful and that there’s no more nations anymore, and that it’s anarchy. ” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 45:50, 25th July)

“Wait and that’s- Hold on. Why would, why would Techno and Phil do this? Why would Techno and Phil want to blow up L'Manberg? Didn’t they live here? I mean, I don’t know about Techno but-” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 18:18, 3rd Aug)

“And it was just Techno and Phil?” (Alivebur)

“Yes…” (Tubbo)

- (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 18:39, 3rd Aug)

“Oh yeah the fucking ghost- Who car- You rebuilt this!” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 19:03, 3rd Aug)

He’s expressed that he’s ecstatic to be alive again and never wants to go back to limbo:

“Ohhh. Ohhh, Tommy. Ohh, Tommy. Tommy, this is bliss!” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 54:32, 29th Apr)

“Oh my god the sunrise. Where’s the sun- I need to watch the sun rise. Oh! Tommy, I’ve waited so fucking long. Tommy, I have been waiting over a decade, in near darkness. This is my sunrise. This is my sunrise. This is mine! This is mine, Tubbo!” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 54:43, 29th Apr)

“Tommy, it was the worst time of my fucking life, Tommy. Tommy, I don’t know if you know-” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 55:53, 29th Apr)

“Tommy, I’ve been given a new lease on life. There’s so much I need to do, Tommy. There’s so much I’ve gotta do. There’s so much! Tubbo, are you coming, and Ranboo…?” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 58:16, 29th Apr)

“I have this lease on life, and by god, if life’s a fucking horse, I’m gonna ride it, Tommy! I’m sor- I’ve gotta go. I’ve got things to do, I’ve got things to plan. I’ll see you soon, alright? I’ll see you next time. Alright, bye guys! Bye, bye!” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 59:24, 29th Apr)

“No, no, no, oh no, god forbid, god for- I can eat, I can feel. Hit me, pinch me, pinch me. Ah! See? I’m tangible.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 21:58, 31st May)

-He really regrets what happened in Pogtopia

I need to make some apologies. I told you I needed to have a think. And I don’t think an apology will ever sum up what I did here, I mean, look at this mess.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 8:00, 5th May)

“But like I think, I think I do need to um. I need to apologise to some people, you know, I’ve gotta make amends. I’ve gotta make amends, and I promise that’s true.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 8:27, 5th May)

“I know- Look at me, look at me in the eyes. I know it’s hard to believe when you look at me, that I… you know- I’ve turned over a new leaf, I’ve turned over a new leaf, you know. I’m feeling good! I’m feeling really, really… well. In the head, in the body. I feel limber.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 8:38, 5th May)

“I wanna apologise to Skeppy. You know, I wanna say sorry to Skeppy if Skeppy has got some problems with me.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 12:45, 5th May)

“No, I need to apologise, man. It’s important that I…” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 12:59, 5th May)

“Jack, I came here for one simple reason, Jack. One simple reason. Jack, it’s super simple! Jack, I’m sorry. I’m sorry I didn’t grant freedom and liberty to Manifoldland, and I’m sorry I led you into war that you didn’t have faith in, I’m sorry that I denied you access to the election, and I’m sorry you were just kinda left behind the whole time. I’m sorry. And I’m especially sorry for of course blowing up your house and your world.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 22:59, 5th May)

“Hm. Yes. I am. Yep. I am. And I- You don’t have to forgive me, you don’t have to accept my apology, I will- I will, em- I’ll go, uh, but yeah.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 23:33, 5th May)

“Listen, Tommy, Tommy, and in my oath of not lying, I’m gonna tell you now, Tommy, I’m sorry for a couple things, to each of these people, right, on the server. I’m sorry to a lot of them, except for Phil. I have nothing to apologise to Phil for, Phil has done nothing wrong.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 24:50, 5th May)

“Tommy, I’ve said this before, I have no issue with anyone on the server. I am deeply apologetic.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 28:47, 5th May)

“Tommy’s very suspicious of me because of who I was, you know? Who I was, but it’s uh. Look, I’m apologetic, I’m genuinely I, I feel very bad for everything that I did, and I shan’t do something similar to that again.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 30:55, 5th May)

“Uh, I saw Jack Manifold, I saw Phil, I saw this Ranboo guy, Tommy, obviously, and now you. I mean there’s lots of people who I wish I could see, like I wish I could just tell them like ‘I’m alive!’ and, and apologise, and also thank them.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 1:01:38, 31st May)

“Alright. I mean, I’m trying to move past that kinda stuff…” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 7:21, 25th July)

“Look, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not coming at you here like judging you. I- I’m not one to talk about conflict, man.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 33:27, 25th July)

“Do you know all it took- Do you know I demolished Jack Manifold’s house, twice. I brutally ignored him during the war of L'Man- He fought for my country, and I ignored him. I didn’t look at him, I didn’t give him so much as a medal, I didn’t give so much as a rank. I gave him the lowest rank on the cabinet. And do you what it took, do you know what it took for him to forgive me? A sorry.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 37:10, 25th July)

“I know you had that- at the festival, with Technoblade. I never spoke to you properly about this. I- I could have saved you.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 21:41, 3rd Aug)

“Tubbo, like, man, I’m- I want to make it up to you. And you know what? I appreciate that you don’t trust me yet. I do.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 22:26, 3rd Aug)

“I’ll do it. I’ll do it. I’ll redeem myself.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 22:55, 3rd Aug)

“I- Tubbo, Tubbo, I know, I know, Tubbo, Tubbo, Tubbo, Tubbo, please, I know. I’m sorry, I’m sorry.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 23:13, 3rd Aug)

“Give me time. I’m gonna, I’m gonna make something, I’m gonna make something of this and I’m gonna… Um…” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 23:20, 3rd Aug)

“This is- I mean, I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta- You know, I was gonna say this is hard, but obviously it’s hard, I mean I’ve… It’s… It’s difficult. It’s difficult, man.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 25:20, 3rd Aug)

-He doesn’t want to be like Dream really, he just wants his punishment to be visible (and considers him his hero for taking him out of the horrid experience that was limbo coupled with him missing huge chunks of information about what went down when he was dead)

“My hero! My fucking hero, Dream, saved me from that hell!” - (Tommy’s Breaking Into Prison To Kill Dream: 58:00, 29th Apr)

“I had no control of what was happening, I have no idea what was being said. But, Tommy, I’ll tell you what, if I was there, and if it wasn’t that stupid shell of a ghost instead of me, I would have struck down Dream right where he stood. We would have disembowelled him, we would have disembowelled him together. Together.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 20:42, 5th May)

“Dream was the only that held my seat for me. He kept it warm, he kept my throne warm, and you guys didn’t like that, so you threw him in prison. And if Dream died instead of me, I would be in there right now.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 22:07, 5th May)

“So, Tommy, you should thank that I wasn’t alive to attack Dream when we got exiled. You should glad we had little passive Ghostbur, because now Dream’s in there, and I’m out here, baby. And I wanna stretch my legs, let’s go for a walk.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 22:19, 5th May)

“Because, because, if you hadn’t done that, I would have ended up living in the- I would have been exiled with TommyInnit, and then I would have gotten angry at Dream 'cause Dream can’t go around hurting Tommy like that. I would have gotten angry at Dream and I would have tried to fight Dream. Which I now see would have been a silly move because Dream’s my hero, Dream’s amazing! So like, I would have ended up fighting Dream, and then, I would have been the one in prison and not Dream.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 48:52, 5th May)

“Well, yes, but I wouldn’t have stood for Dream’s shit. Whilst Tubbo did stand for it, you know, but that’s fair enough, I don’t hold it against him.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 49:27, 5th May)

“Imagine if Dream said sorry to Jack Manifold, what’s Dream done to Jack Manifold, huh? Barely anything.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 37:42, 25th July)

“I imagine if Dream said sorry to Jack Manifold, Jack Manifold would ignore him. Do you know why? Because Dream’s in prison and I’m not!” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 37:57, 25th July)

“I’m not Dream. God I wish I was! Sometimes, I wish, I wish I’d gotten that comeuppance, but, Ranboo, I’m not Dream, and I’m not gonna be Dream.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 38:22, 25th July)

-He believes he doesn’t have inherent worth as a human, thus he has to serve a role in some big plan or win people over to stay with him

“Tubbo, I don’t know if you are just preferring his rule over mine, and I- I feel like I’ve got to win you over.” - (Wilbur’s techno and wilbur make cave better: 1:22:15, 23rd Sep)

“Dream, let me be your vassal. Dream, I understand you have a lot of TNT, a lot of the ol’ trinitrotoluene in your possession, don’t you? You do! Dream, I want to be your vassal, I want to set this up, I want to rig the city.” - (Wilbur’s who are you go away: 1:33:27, 8th Oct)

You stick with me, man, just stick with me, just stick with the winning side. Stick with the side who stands for something, stick with the side who believes in something. And we’ll, we’ll find it out.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 42:57, 5th May)

“Tommy’s only known me for a few hours now. I mean I disappeared after coming back to life, 'cause- I’ve made some plans, I’ve made some plans. Which, don’t worry, you’ll be hearing about them first, Phil. I’m getting you in, I’m getting you in on the ground floor, right. And you Tommy, and you Tommy, of course. But like, you’ve gotta understand- They’re not ready yet, the plans aren’t ready yet.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 52:59, 5th May)

“Tommy, I’m impressed, man. I, honestly- Can I be honest with you, Tommy? I, um. Look, I’ve gotta be honest with you, man, like, like, Wilbur he makes some mistakes sometimes, Tommy. He makes mistakes. And I, I may have forgotten asking you to get the stone.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 9:28, 31st May)

“If I, I, I, I, if I’d known that there was gonna be a place that I could align myself to as quickly as this, I would have done it sooner.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 23:44, 31st May)

“So that’s the invitation to work alongside you, I assume. I, I, I accept. I accept. I’d love to come in.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 24:00, 31st May)

“No, you’ve got it all wrong, you’ve got it all wrong, man. Like, like, okay, maybe, maybe I was unpredictable in the past, you know, but I’ve turned over a new leaf, Quackity. I don’t lie anymore, I don’t, you know, I don’t deceive, I don’t, I know nothing about TNT anymore. I’ve forgotten everything I knew about TNT, it’s ridiculous.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 24:45, 31st May)

“Quackity, I, I don’t know what you mean about my unpredictability, man. But like, listen to me, look at me, look at me. I am, I am your, I am your servant, Quackity. Look, Quackity, look me at me, look me in the eyes, look me in the eyes, I am your servant. I am at your service. I have run countries, I have, I’ve won elections, I’ve done everything that you will need in a leadership role, Quackity. Even not in leadership, I can be, I can be, you know, assistant to the President. Just, I- This is- Quackity, this is everything I dreamt of, a solid marble and quartz…” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 25:24, 31st May)

“Quackity, you’re making a mistake, man. You should- You need to let me in, you need to let me be a part of this.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 26:03, 31st May)

“Quackity, Quackity, I’m, Quackity, listen, I need this.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 26:17, 31st May)

“Listen, Tommy, I heard what he was saying to you, man, and you don’t seriously believe that, do you? Like, like, man, Tommy, you… I’ll be honest with you, can I be honest with you for a second? I, I think you going with Quackity, you’ll have a job. You’ll have a job, right, you’ll be fine, you’ll, you know, you’ll be set for life. You’ll be a caterer.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 38:56, 31st May)

“Look, Tommy, look at me, I’m, I’m not gonna stop you man, but… you’re… I’ll be honest with you, you’re all I’ve got.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 39:39, 31st May)

“Oh, Jack Manifold’s fine, but he wouldn’t do this, he’s too busy with his hotel business and stuff, and uh- And you’ve got Philza. Philza is on the wrong end of a bad stick, as you could say. He’s taken up some ideas about authoritarianism that I just don’t agree with.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 39:48, 31st May)

“Well, I just wanted to say, I wanted to say… Tommy, I don’t want to make a country. I’m past that, man. I wanna make a HQ. I wanna make a place where we can be safe for once. Tommy, it’s been so long since we’ve felt safe. And man, you deserve it. You’ve been through so much, you’ve done so much. Tommy, you’ve changed the world. And all you have to show for it is some scars and some trauma. Tommy, you deserve this safety and this sanctuary, and that’s what I wanna make with you, and you won’t get it over there. You won’t get it over there.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 40:14, 31st May)

“You know what they say about casinos? It’s all lights, it’s all plastic, it’s all glitter, but there’s nothing of substance. You know what has substance, Tommy? Family. Blood. Please stay with me, Tommy. Stay on this side. Don’t go to him and his cushy catering job. It’s gonna be hard over here, man! You’re gonna have to do some stuff that isn’t fun, but it’s, it’s rewarding. Hedonism doesn’t get you everywhere, man.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 40:49, 31st May)

-The whole not having a grave thing really hit him even if he played it off

Ghostbur talks about him not having a grave:

“You’re the best president L’Manburg’s ever had” (Ghostbur)

“Really? You think so? I’m-” (Tubbo)

“Oh, for sure! For sure!” (Ghostbur)

“Are you sure you were not better the first term? Before I… came in” (Tubbo)

“Look Tubbo, I- I don’t know what I did, but it was enough that I don’t even deserve a-” (Ghostbut)

“Do you not even remember the first term, Wilbur? Your second term was where it kinda backed” (Tubbo)

“I remember- I remember my- I remember my- my first term, but I’m just saying- (coughs)” (Ghostbur)

“But you brought freedom to the nation” (Tubbo)

“I- I had a second term?” (Ghostbur)

“Oh…oh, yeah… I guess you don’t remember the second term” (Tubbo)

“(coughs) Tubbo, I- I-“ (Ghostbur)

“Wilbur, Wilbur, do you need some blue? Do you need some blue, Wilbur?” (Tubbo)

“No, it’s cool, I’ve got loads of blue. I say- I’m just saying Tubbo, look… At the end of the day, it’s- I… I don’t- I feel like I was a good president, but I-I wa- Tubbo, I wasn’t… I-I wasn’t good enough to deserve a gravestone… A-and everyone hated me” (Ghostbur)

-(Tubbo’s The Next Steps: 30:14, 7th Dec)

Then revived Wilbur concealing his feelings about it while sprinkling some self-hatred in there (and admitting that he was bothered about in in the 3rd of August stream):

“I know this may be a bit ominous, Tommy, and I’m sorry if it’s a little bit morbid, could- Look, I’m just saying, Tommy, could I, could I see my grave? Tommy, could I see my grave?” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 10:10, 5th May)

“Look, I know it’s a bit macabre, but I, I, I would like to see. You know, I wanna see- I wanna see what- You know there’s that kinda morbid fascination of what would people say about you when you’re dead, you know? You ever heard that?” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 10:33, 5th May)

“That’s fucking sick, that’s so sick, man. You’re saying my grave is the city? They made the city my grave that’s badass, dude. … You just said it was this. … Well, I mean, yeah, I didn’t want a grave. I was hoping I’d go there and it was just be full of requiems and obituaries of horrible I was, and how much I was hated.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 10:51, 5th May)

-He’s desperate for companionship, for someone to stick by him, he wants a friend

“We’re leaving it behind, Tommy. It’s in the past. We’re friends now, we’re friends. We’re friends.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 27:38, 5th May)

“You’re following me for quite a while for someone who doesn’t care.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 27:49, 5th May)

“I’m ready for this new chapter, this new page. Do you trust me? Do you believe that I’m about to turn over a new leaf, Tommy? … You believe I’m about to turn over a new leaf, even if that does involve changing a few things.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 55:01, 5th May)

“No, no, no, no, look, look, okay. As we’re putting it behind us, Tommy, I’m- Tommy, I take back what I- I’m fine with you working here, and still being, you know. As long as you still hang out with me and don’t leave me on my own, I have no problem with you working here, man. … That’s what I’m saying, don’t feel pressured, it’s cool.” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 51:50, 31st May)

[Mouthing: ‘Stay, stay, stay’] “Tommy, you can, you can join, I don’t mind, I’m totally cool with you joining here and being apart of the…” – (Wilbur’s A Deck of Cards with a Green Smile on them: 1:02:31, 31st May)

“Tubbo, what the fuck…! Fuck! Tubbo, why are you- Why? Why did you- Why did you get employed at the- restaurant?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 20:10, 4th Aug)

“Tubbo, are you- You’re aware that you’re- that we’re in competition now, right? We’re, we’re- Tubbo, we’ve always been on the same side, man! We’ve always been together, you’re- head to head with me now though.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 22:20, 4th Aug)

“I’m not- Does it look like I’m taking it the wrong way? I’m perfectly- I’m happy. I’m really happy. I’m happy for Tubbo. I’m happy Tubbo’s got a j- Yes! I’m happy Tubbo’s got a job, man. Tubbo, you were telling me yesterday how you felt like you lacked direction, you lacked purpose.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 23:45, 4th Aug)

“Bro, how could I be angry about that, man?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 24:01, 4th Aug)

“But I get it, I get it, you know, Quackity… He’s a, he’s a hard man to refuse.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 24:09, 4th Aug)

His friendship with Ranboo evolving to a point where he’s vulnerable with him for real and feels he can trust him with what he’s really feeling because Ranboo feels reliable to him (something really rare from Wilbur, refer back to the paranoia part of this):

“Okay, I know we haven’t really got off on- we haven’t got off on the best of terms from the first time we met, I know we had that argument, but uh. I like, you know, I like to think, you know, let bygones be bygones, let’s bury the hatchet. Let’s be- Ranboo, I’m gonna go out on a whim here. Do, do you wanna be friends?” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 18:07, 25th July)

“And, man, Ranboo, hearing you say those words that you said to me. Do you remember what you said? You said, 'I think people can change’, that was number one. And number two, you said you’re scared if people don’t like you.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 38:45, 25th July)

“But like I was saying, though, Ranboo, I, I really appreciate it, man. I- Thank you for trusting me.” - (Wilbur’s A Year Later: 29:11, 3rd Aug)

“Nine to five? Dude, I don’t make you work nine to five. You just have to work when we run out of burgers, man. You’re free to do what you want. You’re working part-time for Wilburger, man.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 5:18, 4th Aug)

“Yeah. I think, hm. Ranboo, I think, I think you’ve, you’ve kind of taken a side here it feels like which is- Which feels like a change for you, I mean, I’m not used to this from you. I mean, you’re Mr Not Choosing A Side, you know?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 7:39, 4th Aug)

“No, but, no, but, you don’t need to have an impact on the world, Ranboo, to matter, you know? You don’t need to build a fucking Eiffel Tower just to be, you know. Just to mean something, you know?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 8:47, 4th Aug)

“Ranboo, Ranboo, don’t get me wrong, you’re talking to me here. I think it’s cool that you’re, that you’re, you know, going out and doing stuff.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 9:03, 4th Aug)

“I think it’s very cool that you’ve decided to go out and, and change how, you know, change this for the better. I think it’s for the better.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 9:14, 4th Aug)

“Yeah, and, man, honestly? I’m proud of you, bro. I know I don’t know you very well, I haven’t known you for very long, but, you know, I think you’ve done a really good job here.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 9:50, 4th Aug)

“Ohh, Ran… I feel you, I feel you, Ranboo, about the… compet- It’s scary, it’s scary, man. Especially when, you know, we got a long way to go, we got a lot of bridges to cross, and, and maybe one day we’ll be ready to like, you know, grab it all by the horns and ride it, you know?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 27:38, 4th Aug)

“But right now it’s- it’s just- It’s just you and me against the world. The world being Tubbo and Quackity.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 27:55, 4th Aug)

“That’s cool. Because, because at the end of the day we’re- Going right now we’re, we’re the good guys, Ranboo. We’re, we’re the good guys here, you know?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 31:08, 4th Aug)

“Yeah. I mean, we haven’t done anything wrong, you know? We’re the good guys, and, and Quackity, Quackity’s done a few things wrong.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 31:08, 4th Aug)

Have some of his passive aggressive attempts at friendship-rivalry with Quackity (They’re kids annoying each other and I adore that):

“So he didn’t like it? He didn’t like you setting up the cookie stand?” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 21:33, 25th July)

“Okay. Okay. No, no, no, that’s good. That’s fine, that’s fine, you know? Because we’re, Ranboo, we’re not gonna annoy Quackity. We can’t annoy him, we can’t annoy him.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 21:44, 25th July)

“And the difference is that we’ll make our grill better than theirs. And then we’ll make lots of money, and Quackity will be left to, you know, maybe have to make a deal with us, maybe have to be, maybe have to be our friend.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 22:59, 25th July)

“Ranboo, how do you feel about thievery? … I’m going to steal Las Nevadas’s cows to cook into our burgers. And I’m not going to rebreed them. I am going to simply kill them.” - (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 41:52, 25th July)

“Are you gonna steal all of them?” (Ranboo)

“Nah. Just enough that it’s annoying, you know?” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s Healthy Competition: 42:14, 25th July)

“I gave him back all the materials, 'cause, I gave him all the materials for the wall, and I also, I also, uh, left him a diamond or two. Just to say like, you know, no hard feelings, you know, it was just for, just you know, just to, you know, prove a point.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 10:18, 4th Aug)

“Basically, Quackity’s here, and I just wanna, I just wanna see how he feels.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 10:32, 4th Aug)

“Normally when I come to the Las Nevadas sign, 'cause I’m not allowed in Las Nevadas, normally when I come to the Las Nevadas sign, Quackity is the first one to come and tell me to fuck off.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 10:43, 4th Aug)

“Yeah, man, it’s- Half of the fun of making something and doing cool things is that moment where everyone, you know, where you get to see what everyone feels about it.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 10:55, 4th Aug)

“Wait here, look, I promise you, just you wait. Just you wait. Ready? Ready? Are you ready? Are- Are you- Are you ready? Um… Uh…” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 11:06, 4th Aug)

“This guy. Ranboo, I swear to god, like I, I feel like I understand him, I feel like I know how his brain works, you know, how his- how the- how the cogs in his mind go. And then he just, and then he just goes and proves that he doesn’t give a shit.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 12:56, 4th Aug)

“Which is why I can’t wait to show off what I’ve done, to him. But, he’s just nowhere to be seen.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 13:12, 4th Aug)

“Oh, okay, you’re talking about- OHHHHH, look who’s here! Quackity! It’s lovely to see you, man, it’s been a while. How have you been?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 14:22, 4th Aug)

“Uh, I’ve just arrived, you know, I just arri- I, I haven’t been long for you. I, I wouldn’t- Quackity, you think, you think I’d wait for you?” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 14:35, 4th Aug)

“Yeah, it’s, it’s good to see you too, man.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 14:53, 4th Aug)

“Hey, man, you know, every- every, you know. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Small steps and that, you can’t-” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 16:17, 4th Aug)

“Dododododooo, that was a good joke, Quackity, you’re funny. Dododo, you’re very nice to me and you never bring up my past. Dododo.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 16:45, 4th Aug)

“Sorry if you noticed a little bit, you know, a little bit of superficial damage. I left you a little gift, as well, afterwards, I’m sure that’s okay. That was Ranboo and me, uh, did that, actually, to your restaurant. Ranboo and I.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 18:05, 4th Aug)

“Well, we’ve gotta go, we’ve gotta go. It was lovely, it was absolutely lovely hanging out with you. I, I am just thrilled that you liked the renovations.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 25:30, 4th Aug)

“Wait- Wait, I’m allowed in Las Nevadas?” (Alivebur)

“Wilbur, you’re not- You’re taking this the wrong way, man.” (Quackity)

“You told me I couldn’t come in and now-”

- (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 25:56, 4th Aug)

“You’re a good man. You’re a good man, Quackity. I’ll, I’ll give you that.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 26:29, 4th Aug)

“Ohh boy! Ha ha ha ha, ha! Oh, this is good, this is- this is exactly what I want. Did you see how- Dude, dude, Ranboo, he was trying act like I didn’t get to him.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 26:47, 4th Aug)

“He cares so much, he cares so much.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 27:06, 4th Aug)

“I feel alive, Ranboo, I feel alive. Someone’s looking at me and talking to me! I’m alive, I’m alive! This is great.” - (Wilbur’s Unhealthy Competition: 27:22, 4th Aug)

-He doesn’t love TNT. He self-harms with it

“Tommy, I don’t need armour. You don’t seem to understand…!” - (Wilbur’s The Festival: 11:24, 16th Oct)

“I am concerned. I’m being very careful, Tommy.” (Alivebur)

“Yeah but you’re not wearing any armour, or you don’t have any defences on you.” (Tommy)

“Well for what?” (Alivebur)

- (Wilbur’s The Festival: 14:23, 16th Oct)

“I’m not crouching there’s no point! We’ll all be dead soon, it doesn’t matter!” - (Wilbur’s Speedy Stream Festival What festival: 24:16, 17th Oct)

He’s let TNT explode on him and take away half his hearts when blowing up the corner of Quackity’s restaurant in “Healthy competition” (around 55:50)

He also self-harms by letting creepers blow up next to him, saying he doesn’t fear death even when he’s expressed to not want to go back to limbo and that he’s incredibly happy about being alive again:

“Tommy, listen to me, man. I don’t fear death, I don’t fear death, Tommy.” - (Wilbur’s resurrected gentleman of L'manburg: 57:23, 5th May) (In this scene he let a creeper explode next to him)

Even Ghostbur showed some explosion trauma:

[Sees TNT placed] “Oh, no.” [Hears explosion] “Uhh… Guys I- I think I should go, I think I should go. … Yeah, I’m not too sure about all this.” - (Tubbo’s Exploding Stuff w/ Tommy: 48:38, 22nd Apr)

“I don’t know, I just don’t- I don’t like the sound of those fireworks. … I don’t- I really, really don’t like the sound of the fireworks.” - (Tubbo’s Exploding Stuff w/ Tommy: 49:00, 22nd Apr)

“Okay, Tommy, I’ll go to Pogtopia. I just don’t wanna be- I don’t wanna be there. Thank you. Thank you for understanding. I’m sorry, I’ll help you- I’ll get you more sand. Bye bye!” - (Tubbo’s Exploding Stuff w/ Tommy: 49:23, 22nd Apr)

-He’s as much of a person as everybody else on the SMP. Think about that

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