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seven-oomen · 4 years ago

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Please talk about Noah! Your takes are super interesting and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!

(hope you're having a nice day!)

Alright then strap in! Because I am about to tell you why I think Noah Stilinski is;

A. Bisexual

B. Has the inattentive type of ADHD

Let’s begin!

First off, I think Noah Stilinksi is a bisexual man who has a preference for feminine presenting people. (As one would typically see women dress/appear in western society.) I don’t particularly have evidence for this, I tried scouring S3 to find clues of it, but honestly, I think this is just one of those, I headcanon it and therefore to me, it is true. If you have a different opinion, then awesome, you do you.

I mean there are some looks between him and Chris Argent that can be interpreted as interested, but you’d have to look very closely. For now, it’s just one of those things, to me it’s like that, and I have fun with it.

Like father, like son right? Except Stiles would be more on the 50/50 scale of bisexuality where I think Noah is more on the 70/30 scale leaning towards feminine people.

As for his ADHD, I did find a lot of clues and tidbits there, so:

Notice how the sheriff is frequently standing with his arms crossed as if he’s either trying to protect himself (trauma-based) or trying to keep himself from moving too much (ADHD based). This would also explain why the sheriff is often seen standing too still. He also tends to talk with his hands, which is another thing a lot of ADHD people have in common. Though to be fair a lot of NT people do this too.

However here in 3x01 we see the sheriff fully focused on this person while they’re trying to work something out.

Then the next second, Melissa enters the hallway and Noah’s undivided attention is suddenly on her, he barely remembers to utter out an excuse me before addressing Melissa. And he does it as if every neuron in his brain is suddenly focused on her. “Oh hey, Melissa!”

*Brain switch. Undivided attention is now on Melissa.*

This is a form of hyper-focusing, and if you’ve been trained from a young age you do this while making it look NT-passing. You mask it. I do this. People with ADHD-C or ADHD-I that have a basis in trauma tend to this in my experience.

Like Stiles tends to do, the sheriff too, is moving around fidgeting in the blurry background. He’s talking faster than he can process which is picked up on by his stutters. While he’s trying to figure out a resolution to this conflict.

You can also tell that there might be some RSD at play here due to the fact that he seems very keen to keep the peace in the scene and wants everyone to get along and let’s keep everyone around me chill. This may not seem like a stereotypical ADHD thing to do, but it’s very common in ADHD-I types.

In the scene with Deaton that he shares in this episode, as well as numerous scenes with Stiles and other characters. You can always see him thinking, you can practically see the wheels turning in his head as he tries to make connections and tries to focus on what lies ahead of him and what people are saying to him.

Sometimes he successfully succeeds in listening and processing. You see this by his frowns, little head movements. But as soon as those arms cross or his frown deepens you can tell someone is trying to flip the switch, but the light’s not turning on. The information isn’t being processed by his brain. He’s trying to defend himself.

Again, this is a typical thing for someone with ADHD-I who’s been trained and has had extensive therapy to cope with his symptoms. For a while and for general conversations/problems, you are capable of holding the thread. When things get complicated, that’s when you start to see the thread unraveling in Noah’s head.

In 3x02 there’s a moment of impatience as he wakes the boys up but also clearly a look on his face that says a few things.

1. Omg Stiles has done it again.

2. Look at the state of this room where do I even begin? I don’t know, so I just won’t bother.

3. Oh no I have absolutely been here and now I have to deal with my son being in this state too.

So he does the most logical thing to him, he doesn’t deal with it. Just his executive dysfunction going off and thinking; nope I’m not dealing with this, I need to get work, I don’t have time to sit down (hence the mug in his hands.) Man is probably running late already and only now waking the boys up because he realizes they’re A. still in his house. And B. not off to school yet and he needs to get going too.

He has a moment like this in multiple episodes where his impatience and incapability of dealing with a situation in front of him causes him to physically drag Stiles away and using too much force to do it. Though judging by Stiles’s reactions, and the way he relaxes after being grabbed, the sheriff seems to realize how hard he is grabbing and eases up every single time.

And that seems like a little detail, but not knowing your own strength is also a thing that can correspond with ADHD. (Though it can occur in NT people and other conditions as well. Or generally, be caused by anger.) But for the sake of this essay or meta, I will attribute it to Noah having ADHD.

In 3x09 Stiles finally clues him in on what’s happening in Beacon Hills and we can clearly see that he’s struggling to process everything. One could attribute that purely to;

1. Noah is trying to come to terms that supernatural creatures are real and this would be a lot for anyone to process. Which is a fair and a totally valid assumption.

2. However, we see signs of Noah already starting to believe something is up from the very beginning. There’s always been a side to the sheriff where he was willing to believe or give people the benefit of the doubt when it came to the supernatural. Like in 3x03 when he tells his deputy: “She saw something.”

This leads me to believe that the real matter at hand is that Noah simply can’t process all that information at that time and he needs a few days to think it over in order to do so. Which could be a sign of a processing problem due to ADHD. (Although as I have pointed out, it could also be interpreted as an NT just getting a lot of crazy information at once. Take it as you will.)

In 3x07 Stiles and Scott argue over whether or not to tell Noah what’s going on with the sacrifices. Stiles points out that they shouldn’t because his father is completely overwhelmed.

This can be attributed to several things and interpreted in different ways. Let’s lay down the most obvious one; the sheriff has no idea what’s going on, he has the FBI on his case, and multiple murders on his hands and essentially a serial killer. All of these on their own are enough to be overwhelmed by, yes.

I choose to interpret it as a combination of all of these factors combined with an inability to process this much information or information in general. Which is another symptom of ADHD-I.

We also hear him frequently telling Stiles and the other kids to ‘go home, get to class, go to school.’ Basically what he’s doing in moments like this is 1. looking out for them. 2. Unable to cope and process with all the information he’s been giving during that time and instead of lashing out at the kids, he tries a coping mechanism that’s called divert or redirect. Where you try to redirect people/thoughts/object into a direction or thought process that’s far more manageable to you.

Which is something that I’ve been taught to do myself in therapy. And that is why I think it’s something Noah has been taught to do as well. Either in the Army/Police Academy. or during therapy sessions.

Now, this is what I like to call Noah’s; I’m trying to process what you’re trying to tell me face. And so far, I’m keeping up. You see the pursed lips, the frown on his face, the slightly squinted eyes. He’s focusing on what Stiles is trying to tell him.

Here he is looking away for a second, processing, trying to manage information. We see him frown further, his lip tensing further, he has to try harder.

He’s processing, processing, he blinks. And then this is the face he pulls right after the blink.

The frown has deepened, he's still following Stiles for now but you can see he’s starting to lose the train of thought here.

Stiles keeps explaining, pulls out the chessboard to explain what is going on.

And Noah has completely lost his train of thought. He has no idea what Stiles is saying to him anymore and no way to process all of the information that Stiles is giving him after this moment. He gets impatient, is annoyed at the things Stiles is telling him. That is because he’s emotionally, and physically overwhelmed.

He deals with a lot of things in his job and he always seems utterly exhausted because of it. I think that is because his job is exhausting. But I also think it has to do with Noah not being able to filter sounds, stimuli, the inability to process things like an NT. I think Noah suffers from a high level of empathy, this combined with sensory processing issues results in someone who’s constantly trying to filter them out and failing. Resulting in chronic fatigue, turning to other means of dealing (Alcoholism), impatience, etc.

He also seems to have trouble regulating his emotions, as we see with his frequent snaps and jabs at Stiles but he also seems to try and be better about it and regret it when he does snap. We also know that in order to numb his pain and his emotions Noah turned to Alcohol to cope, as sad as it is, this is common in people with ADHD. Who often turn to substances to cope with their symptoms and their inability to regulate themselves, anything to numb all the feelings and their own shortcomings. Noah seems to have fallen into that trap too.

I think my favorite moment in this scene comes right after with this face:

And the question of; “Why is Jackson the Kanima?”

Which tells me a few things.

1. After everything, that’s the first question he truly asks as he leans back and tries to process things.

2. This may point to an inability to prioritize tasks/thoughts, which is another symptom of ADHD-I. Which for Noah seems to occur when he’s not on the job or with people he trusts and doesn’t have to mask for. (He does this too when he asks Derek at the station; “But if he doesn’t have a mouth, how does he eat?”) Suggesting that this is a more regular occurrence than we see on the show.

And at this point, I can no longer concentrate on this since I’ve lost my hyper-focus. But I think I managed to compile a pretty decent list.

And that is why I think Noah Stilinski is Bisexual and has ADHD.

Tagging: @mostly-vo1d and @artemisa97 since they are usually involved in these things too. You don’t have to respond of course, but if you feel up to it, join in.

#noah stilinski #sheriff stilinski #teen wolf #teen wolf meta #headcanon #adhd #bisexual #ben says stuff #long post #answered #Anonymous #creativity he wrote

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dramaticviolincrescendo · 4 years ago

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I've really enjoyed your recent meta takes and was wondering if you could elaborate on your thoughts on Mandy + Ian and her going for Lip as a result (from your Ian Relationships meta)? I love reading about M+I and their connection is just so dear to me 😭

(P.S Thank you for being such a beacon of positivity in the Shameless fandom! I only got into the show during lockdown last year but it's become such a comfort so it makes me so happy to see positivity right now. ❤ )

Oh my gosh, thank you so much! You’re seriously too kind! I totally sympathize with you: Shameless has shot straight to the top of my list of comfort media since watching it right around the same time, so I’m really passionate about sharing the love around. 😃🧡

To me, one of the most important things to look at in this analysis is motives—who each of these characters are, what they desire for themselves, and how those factors fit together like a puzzle.

Mandy is in such a difficult position. It’s not as easy as saying that she’s a victim of abuse and wants nothing more than to get as far from her family as possible, because that’s simply not true. In s1, we see that she’s very comfortable in her house. She and Mickey exhibit your standard sibling animosity (and competition for Ian’s attention, unbeknownst to her), she makes breakfast for Terry even though she’s obviously not super respectful to him as a parent, and she clearly has a solid understanding of where her family stands in the neighborhood. In a way, she thrives on that in the beginning. At but a word, she can do serious damage to somebody without raising a finger herself. Viewing Ian’s lack of response to her advances as an insult, she takes full advantage of that. In s2, we know that she is being abused in such a heinous way. She takes charge of the situation, although not in a manner that would save her from it. She leaves the house for a while to avoid Terry; she holds him at gunpoint and forces him to accept what he already knows so that he won’t hurt Ian. When they talk afterward, she even recounts what happened in a way that makes it sound like no big deal—he was drunk, and he didn’t know who she was, so it’s whatever. (It isn’t. We know it isn’t. If this is going to be her reality, however, then she’s going to own it. No one will look down on her, especially not a Gallagher who’s barely ahead of her in social standing.)

We’ll pause there because so much of how Mandy changed afterward is tied to Lip, but we can already see that Mandy isn’t like Mickey. Mickey stuck it out with his family and very clearly fell into the same trap we’ve heard verbalized by other male characters, namely the notion that men can’t be abused. It doesn’t matter that that is entirely inaccurate—that’s what they’ve been taught in their environment. That’s what’s normal to them. (That’s part of the dramatic irony in this scenario: we can see how damaging and traumatic these events are, but the characters don’t have our perspective. I don’t think Mickey sees what happened to him as rape, just like Ian doesn’t see what happened to him as grooming or assault. That’s for the audience to comprehend in terms of gravity and should add to our sympathy for them.)

Mandy is different. Women are abused all the time in their neighborhood. It’s visible, and it’s pervasive. In s3, Mandy immediately teaches Debbie how to defend herself against it. She didn’t have to learn. Like not seeing themselves as victims is part of the boys’ culture, fighting not to be one is part of the girls’. But there’s a contradiction in her life: the Milkoviches are the neighborhood badasses, and while she shares in that, it’s limited by her sex. There is something she will never be able to overcome in order to see the same return on her reputation that Mickey and Terry do, not unless she gets out, which will be extremely difficult on her own merits. She’s living in poverty and not doing well in school. Her prospects are limited—she told the counselor so. Based on that conversation and her history with boys even before meeting Ian, she clearly sees one surefire avenue to get out of this hole she’s stuck in: a man with the resources to get out and take her with him. If she’s lucky, it’ll even be a good man with a good heart who wants to do good in the world.

Now, let’s talk about Ian. (See what I did there?) This doesn’t need to be long because I’ve already talked so much about Ian already lately, but let’s wax poetic just a bit. Ian wants to be a good person. He wants to be able to get by, even be successful, without having to do it through scamming and stealing. He has goals and ambitions, and whatever anybody thinks of those ambitions, he did it with the mindset that he would be a hero—a protector. Along with that, he never gives up. When Mandy sets her brothers on him, he doesn’t hide forever—he seeks her out multiple times to fix the situation. When he can’t get into West Point, he doesn’t quit ROTC and ignore his dreams. He keeps going.

Not only is he someone who wants to be good for himself, but he wants to be good for others too. He shows Mandy kindness that she arguably hasn’t seen from anyone else before. He takes care of his family when hers tends to focus on themselves and their own individual survival more of the time. Ian has what she would have seen as the potential to get out, and at the time, that is what he wants. It isn’t as an escape for him, but as a way to facilitate his own dreams.

The problem? Ian is gay. We can see that that bothers her sometimes because she forgets. She goes in for a kiss in s2 and has to reel back, settling for a hug instead. She gets tired of hearing him talk about Kash in s1 and kisses him to shut him up, saying she just wanted to kiss her fake boyfriend. Ian isn’t attainable. If Ian leaves, he won’t take her with him as a partner, and she can’t ask as a friend. How desperate would that seem to someone who refuses to be put in a position where she even slightly perceives him to be pitying her? She can’t ask. Not Ian. She needs someone else, someone who is also good and capable of getting out of here—who can be convinced to even if they don’t want to. Someone she can also trust and has some sort of connection with. Someone who is a fixer, and someone she can draw in with the only thing she thinks she has of any value: her body.

That would be Lip. Not only does he meet all of those criteria at the time, but she knows she can trust him. She trusts Ian, and Ian is closer to Lip than he is to anyone else—even her. No, Lip doesn’t have any convictions or real desire to leave, but he has potential. She can work with that. She’s also there for the entire Karen saga, so she knows that Lip is someone who takes his responsibilities to the people he’s with very seriously and tries so hard to cultivate that connection. (For example, feeding him, making herself sexually available as often as possible, letting him stay with her when he can’t go anywhere else without any conditions, etc. We even begin to see her distancing herself from Ian a little bit by s3, putting all of her energy into what she has with Lip when, a year ago, they were sneaking around because she said she didn’t want Ian to know about them. That isn’t to say that Ian was seeking her out either, being quite distracted with Mickey, but it’s noticeable for me.)

Like Mickey, Mandy also has a very deep capacity for emotion and affection that seems incongruous with her personality a lot of the time. Also like Mickey, nobody brought that out in her—it was always there. As much as she seemed to hope that Lip would take care of her, the process of growing closer to him led to a level of affection. I don’t particularly read their relationship as being a deep one. Both of them were using the other, to an extent, to deal with their trauma in other areas of their lives. But that sort of thing can foster a kinship, a mutual understanding that transcends time and place and even the terrible stuff that people do to one another.

So, it doesn’t work out. Mandy is hurt and does something unforgivable. She then runs from Lip, straight into what she feels is her only alternative now: an abuser. What else is there for a girl in her position? Ian was unattainable because of his sexuality, but to someone beaten down again and again, perhaps she believed he was also unattainable because he was too good a person. Lip was unattainable despite her best efforts to bridge that gap because of what he had with Karen, but to someone beaten down again and again, perhaps she believed he was also unattainable because her position in his life was to give but never to take. With Kenyatta, all she does is give. She’s embraced being beaten down because what else is there? She leaves with him, believing there’s nothing for her there.

When she finally finds her strength, far from home but hopefully under better circumstances than when she lived in Chicago, she still follows the formula that has ruled her decision-making for some time: finding a place where she can have the control over her life that was never there before, but still with the belief that what she has to offer isn’t academic or able to be built or improved upon. Ian has worked past his perception that his body was what he had to offer, that it was what would provide him with the love he was looking for. But of course, he has. He’s had Mickey to love him when he’s healthy and love him when he’s lost a bunch of weight from a depressive episode spent in bed. He’s had his family to mess up here and there but ultimately love him so much.

Mandy doesn’t have that. She didn’t then either. She got what she wanted—she got out. She even implied that that was the most important thing by telling Ian that being born on the South Side doesn’t mean that’s where they have to stay. But Ian “got out” of the spiral of abuse he unknowingly suffered and the mindset that it fostered while Mandy didn’t. This isn’t to say anything negative about sex work, of course, only the mindset that led Mandy to this point in her life. And when she leaves the house for the last time, she looks at Lip after having asked about him, and they acknowledge each other the way that people who once knew each other do.

I’ve made the joke before that to Milkoviches, Gallaghers are like catnip. It’s flippant and funny enough when we consider how many of them have dated at one point or other. I’ve also said the Milkoviches are designed as a foil to the Gallaghers, a juxtaposed image of what they could have been had their situation been altered slightly. In s10, Mickey mentions how the Gallaghers are messed up and he’s never been happier to be a Milkovich, so there’s some awareness there that these are the two notorious families of the neighborhood, albeit for different reasons. For Mandy to see that not one, but two Gallaghers are out of reach? To perhaps feel as though she’s less than even them, or made to feel that way in her interactions with Lip? It’s the ultimate slap in the face.

She trusts Ian more than anyone else in her life, to the point where she will still call him to help her hide a body long after she’s left him and their home behind. But trusting Ian led her to loving Ian, and she couldn’t have him. Trusting Ian led her to meeting Lip, and if Ian was so good and loved Lip so much, he had to be worth it too. And to her, he was. The problem was that she felt that she wasn’t.

Self-fulfilling prophecies suck: when you’re treated like garbage by a neighborhood that sees your family as garbage and repeatedly experience things that will make you feel like garbage around people with the best intentions, you’ll start believing that you are, in fact, garbage. I think what we’ve watched with Mandy is a steady decline from a place of strength in herself and weakness in her environment to an overall place of weakness that she couldn’t escape. Not with Ian and, when she realized that wouldn’t happen, not with the only real alternative she thought she could trust since she trusted Ian so deeply.

#shameless #shameless meta #ian gallagher #mandy milkovich #abuse tw

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kaypeace21 · 5 years ago

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i LOVE your analysis especially byler ones so please don't take this as hate, it's the last thing i want to do. but while i love the byler theories do you actually think the duffers are smart enough to realize the potential/brave enough to follow through on the relationship. bc tbh i think our viewpoint is skewed i don't think anyone but byler shippers see the canon possibility. and also it really seems like m/leven is going to be endgame? just wanted to know more of your thought process

Even if byler never happens- I’m 100% sure mileven won’t be endgame XD. Regardless of byler, Mike and El are just not going to happen. (Even if they’re ‘dating’ in s4). I could try to explain the reasons why I think byler will be endgame though. I’ll give the cliffnotes version. This will probably be a mess- because focusing on all the reasons isn’t as good as analyzing , each reason as it’s own separate post, in depth).

Why mileven isn’t endgame

- The duffers said, while filming ST, El was supposed to die in s1 (glad that didn’t happen). And this was also their plan when pitching their show ‘Montauk’ (later retitled ST), saying that the hypothetical s2 sequel would be about the boys returning to their town 10 years later. Mileven was never ‘planned end-game’. They also describe mileven kissing but never mention the word ‘love’ like how Jancy was described in the Montauk pitch. Nancy’s bio says “ she will experience love for the first time.” But when they describe mileven, they say, “If Mike is the Elliot of our show, Eleven is our “E.T.” Like that’s … not romantic, Duffers. And if it was supposed to be … WTF did you guys watch the same film? 0-O

- In the byler centric s2, the Duffers kept mileven separated. And the mileven kiss wasn’t written in the show. Millie pretty much said “they had to do it.” Much to Matt’s confusion but then the Duffers agreed. And used ‘every breath you take’ (a song about divorce), and just by coincidence their 2nd back-up song was also a song about a divorce? Nah, they were trolling.

- Most of the women (Nancy & Max) in the show critique Mileven saying Mike treats her as if she’s stupid, can’t take care of herself, or as she is a possession.

-in the first ep of s3 almost all the guys (who had/have gfs) Hopper, Lucas, and Dustin all criticize the mileven relationship and think it’s unhealthy.

Hopper says “ They’re spending entirely too much time together… It is constant.It is constant! Okay? That is not normal, that is not healthy! ”

Lucas mocks Mike, saying “ Oh El, I wish we could make out forever and never hang out with any of our friends.”

Dustin says when they flake on him, “It’s bullshit, I just got home!” (insert Nancy calling Stancy ‘bullshit’)

and before this Dustin talks about Romeo & Juliet (while mileven is out of frame). R&J is all about the dangers of not knowing the difference between love and infatuation. Juliet after Romeo is banished just complains about how in love/sad she is but never pursues looking for him (sound familiar)? R&J claimed that they were in love with each other after knowing each for a few days and deciding to get married-sabotaging the closest relationships they had with their friends/family (all in the name of ‘true love’) . Similarly Mileven thought they were in love after only a week of knowing each other, and the second they are reunited they start dating and spend all their time with each other. El is allowed out of the house (and her friends are allowed to visit), but El hasn’t interacted with Max nor Will? They spend almost everyday in her room just making out. Mike puts very little effort into integrating her into his life or as part of the group. The only time they go out- is for Mike to show off El to Dustin like a possession- then before El can even do the boding activity with the group (with the radio tower)- Mike convinces her to leave to make out. They are both complicit in this and they both bring out the worst in each other and they make each other blinded to their loved ones’ feelings.

- El literally asks Max “How do I know what I like?” Do I have to explain why this could be problematic? She even says “I don’t know”, when Max asks if Mike is a good kisser.You can call me ‘ableist’ my abused-autistic ass will disagree. But El is not ready for a romantic relationship! it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of romantic, platonic, and familial love- when the first 12 years of her life she didn’t receive any form of love , PERIOD! And she is not like normal abuse victims (she has never had proper socialization with peers her own age or even adults).All she had was television. She latches herself on to anyone who is kind to her (something I used to do). Without Mike she used Max as a replacement almost immediately, and even starts repeating/mirroring the things she says (specifically coping phrases from her …over 6 times!). She’s also susceptible to doing what others say or want her to do, “dumping his ass” (with Max’s validation and encouragement). El might love Mike but I don’t think it’s romantic, she latched on to the first person that was kind to her. Before their first kiss she asked Mike “Will you be like my brother?” And she’s hurt when he says “no”, asking “Why not?”. He then kisses her (she watches a lot of soap operas and she assumes it must be ‘romantic love’). You’re telling me that if she was ‘in love’ with Mike she would have been that happy over dumping him? I’m not saying El is dumb for not being able to discern these things (I think people without such backgrounds may still struggle with this concept). But it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of various loves or even the differences between ‘crushes’ , ‘physical attraction’ and ‘romantic love’

- In the last ep El asks about what he said at the cabin to Max, specifying “you talked about your feelings?”. He says and I QUOTE “Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…” and starts to scratch his head. Then he excuses what he said at the cabin, saying it was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t actually remember. What did I say exactly?”

Now either he legitimately forgot! Or he lied! You know the thing that broke them up in the first place! The one thing that El holds as her most important value in life- honesty. And he lied- about something as important as his romantic feelings?! Make up any excuse (about being shy/character flaws all you want), but this isn’t real life- it’s fiction (everything is done for a narrative purpose). That wasn’t an accident ( mileven wasn’t “written out of character”- like milevens claim, the duffers were criticizing the ship on purpose) .And the fact he lied again! Wouldn’t bode well for a long term relation with each other. The whole season, criticized their romantic relationship ! That wasn’t a coincidence neither was the fact he looked confused by her confession, and kept his eyes open the whole time and didn’t kiss her back .

And as she smiled and walked away, he looked confused. That wasn’t a directing mistake, like so many milevens are claiming! You really think they wouldn’t make sure their ‘fav ship’ didn’t have a good final kiss?

Especially since it was right after a romantic Jancy scene (which was directed amazingly)- where Nancy even mentions Mileven- to make us compare the 2 pairings romantic scenes even more.

* I know I sound like an assh*le but I’m just annoyed. I’ve always censored my byler posts trying not to offend/criticize mileven. I never cross tagged my byler meta with the hashtag mileven (never will, cause it’s rude). But (without sounding pompous) my byler posts generally gets reblogged a lot- and now the milevens have seen my posts (and are sending lots of hate my way) and worst of all they’ve invaded the byler tag. Today I saw 2 posts in the byler tag saying. “We’re delusional” and “stupid”- and also in the same posts they say they “feel attacked” by us.Um… there’s a difference between byler shippers privately criticizing a ship without bothering mileven shippers (and only tagging it byler) . Versus Mileven shippers tagging things byler (and ranting about the ship and it’s shippers). Loved the comment about how Mike can’t be bi cause “he loves El too much”.I think Mike is probably gay and in denial. But, um that’s not how being bi works- didn’t know bi people love women and men ½ as much as the gays/straights. Thanks for informing me (rolls eyes for eternity).So kid-gloves off, nothing left to lose! Time to compare the ships.

‘The breakup’ vs ‘fight’ parallel

comedic vs dramatic! The casual sunny day vs the dramatic framing of the storm (a romantic trope) . The ‘break-up’ being a scene with multiple onlookers vs the fight being with Will and Mike only (making it more personal/intimate). ‘Cold as ice’ playing after the mileven breakup vs the sad instrumentals playing during the byler fight. The comedic after-math at the mall. El and Max laughing, and another joke being made as the bus leaves.El’s happiness vs Will’s heartbreak.

Mike’s drastically different expressions after their fights. He looks regretful with Will, and almost annoyed with El dumping him. The fact Mike apologized right away more than once to Will, and ran into a storm to apologize a 2nd time. But with El he just lies to cover up the first lie, and then after the break-up he just complains/lounges on the couch (not taking any responsibility). He literally says about El “Why is she treating me this way? What did I do to deserve this? What did I do wrong?”.( He lied and made her feel “like garbage”!) Then he burps and laughs about chips- and makes sexist comments. Neither EL nor Mike are heartbroken by the breakup.

But when he angers Will (by him trying to finish the game early), he immediately tries to de-escalate saying softly “I was just joking- c’mon, let’s finish the game”. But when Will just yells back (much to Mike’s confusion) he doesn’t dismiss his feelings as irrational (like he wrongfully did to El) but chases him to the garage- and begs him to stay since it’s raining.

In the garage, Mike immediately apologizes saying “I said I was sorry, alright. It was a cool campaign.” But after this, they fight and Mike runs into a storm to apologize a second time , and says to Will’s door “ WILL! I’m sorry I was being an asshole. Can you just come outside and we’ll talk? WILL!” He immediately takes responsibility and apologizes. And he’s desperate to resolve things. And when they find him outside castle Byers he just asks (Mike’s catchphrase) “Will, Are you ok?”

Shed scene ( “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “the most important thing in the world to me”) parallel

When Mike says to El “you’re most important thing to me” in the pool shed. El doesn’t even acknowledge the comment (and neither should the audience- cause the words were empty). She completely ignores his words, and responds by asking him about his previous comments. Asking whether Hopper was right about them spending too much time together.

I didn’t edit (or delete any scene after his proclamation) this is how fast it was delivered ! The framing of this mileven scene was not cinematic or heartfelt, and neither was the delivery from Mike. He’s not crying, trying to reach her with proclamations of his genuine feelings. There’s no dramatic music, framing, lighting or shot composition. And El just responds and cuts his supposed ‘true feelings’ off- only to agree with Hopper and says “ she should spend time with her own species.” And if this ‘romantic moment’ wasn’t already undermined enough. This is when Mike realizes she was spying on him , and feels wrongfully violated (something she doesn’t apologize for, saying “I make my own rules” . He even brings this up in a later episode (this clearly bothered him)!

Juxtaposed to the MUCH longer byler scene. A literal single tear falling down his cheek as Mike , recounts the first day they met. Mike being in the back drop of darkness only his face being illuminated (having him appear like a guiding light to Will). Saying “ I felt so alone and so scared… but you were alone too” (alone together/crazy together) . He then talks about asking Will to be his friend, and then he pauses and breaks eye contact , before looking him in the eye and smiling (lost in the memory) saying softly “you said yes, you said yes.” (cough like saying yes at a wedding).

So, after he says “you said yes, you said yes.” It’s important to mention that he takes a deep breath and breaks eye contact again, (looking down and to the side) as he says this line. Subconsciously, I believe he knows this line is romantic and he’s too afraid to say it to his face. Only flicking his eyes up to look at Will after he finishes the entire sentence, and to gauge Will’s reaction.

This whole monologue is only of tight shots of just their faces (their bodies aren’t shown like in the pool shed scene). This is a personal moment between them and them alone- and the fact we zoom in on their faces (expresses this to be important emotionally) . And when we see Will’s reaction to Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done”. We just see Will’s face only- no music is playing and all we hear is Will’s whimpers and Mike crying in the background.

“ Blank makes you Crazy” vs “ Crazy Together parallel

When Mike tries to confess his “love” to El he says “Well they do say it makes you crazy”… much to El’s confusion.He has to try to explain it a second time to El- who just gets even more confused, by his ‘confession’. Saying “you never heard that expression? Like blank makes you crazy … like the word (love)?”

But when Mike says he “feels like he’s going crazy” Will immediately responds with “Me too”. Mike even smiles at the comment. So that moment in s2 means more than we think, when Mike (with tears in his eyes) smiles at Will’s comment and asks them to go “crazy together”.And when Will responds back “yeah, crazy together” (who also has tears in his eyes). They even linger on the moment as they just smile and stare at each other.

Mike is in denial, and may not even realize he loves Will, but he knows subconsciously that he does. He heard the phrase “love makes you crazy and that damn stupid”, 100′s of times and that’s why he said that phrase to Will. And why it made him so happy when Will reciprocated , by saying “ yeah. crazy together.” In addition to why we see them both go from happy, to immediately upset over the conversation.The scene was already romantically coded in s2 (but the scene in s3 re-contextualizes the whole thing) . Mike thinks “love makes you crazy” , and he asked Will to go ‘crazy together’ with him. And When Will is at castle byers looking at the Halloween pic of the 2 the day Mike said that, Will cries and calls himself “stupid” (4x). Can’t get more obvious… Like look what the duffers did!

El and Will’s opinions on Mike (Parallels)

-When asked if Mike was a good kisser, she just said “I don’t know he’s my 1st boyfriend.” (implying she’s thinking, at least subconsciously, of having other boyfriends ,who are not Mike in the future). But when Mike pretty much asks’ if Will thought they’d never get girlfriends, and spend the rest of their lives with each other’.Will just sadly responds “yeah, I guess I did. I really did!” Unlike, El, Will always saw Mike as his future, his forever.

-And when Mike says “it’s just a break” , Max says “No it’s not!”, and we see El laugh along with Max’s comment. She is not heartbroken at the idea of never getting back together with him, romantically. Right after they break up she was laughing, reading comics, and playing games with Max.

But Will is devastated over the fight! And out of all the memories in Castle Byers it’s the Ghostbusters photo from Halloween that causes Will to pick up the bat and start destroying everything. That was the night that Mike agreed to go “crazy together” with him. He tears it in ½ right in the center where Mike and Will are. He was so stupid to think it meant anything. The “crazy together” scene, that Mike initiated in s2 was always meant to be romantic. Not only because of Will’s reaction to the photo in s3, but because Mike in s3 says “They do say it makes you crazy…blank makes you crazy.” Which is exactly what happens to Will, as he has his breakdown.Castle byers was built on a rainy night , the same day Will’s dad left, when Will was 5 (the same age he met Mike). And lonnie called him a “queer” and a “f*g” and forced him to do “normal things” like baseball to have him “be more of a man”. And then on a rainy night, after Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”… what does Will destroy castle byers with? A baseball bat! The fact Will has a baseball bat (despite in s1 saying he does not like baseball) in Castle Byers, surrounded by things he loves: drawings, d&d, art supplies, a microscope, comics- just shows what an impact Lonnie’s problematic conditioning and abandonment had on him. He used a baseball bat to destroy something he loves -castle Byers, and symbolically he was trying to reject his feelings for Mike using Lonnie’s old tactics of fixing him.

- Also, El doesn’t even seem to appreciate when Mike acts like his true self (goofy/like a kid). She laughs when Max complains he talks too much. Rolls his at his jokes with the cpr-dummy, covers his mouth and tells him to stop when he tries to joke and sing, ignores him when he gets excited about talking about dinosaurs. Which relates to my next point

The only characters who’s character bios focus on ‘escaping’ through d&d is Mike and Will.

Will in the Montauk pitch was described as having “sexual identity issues… LIKE MIKE , Will ESCAPES through fantasy gaming where he can be himself, uninhibited.” Like what is Mike escaping from… being a nerd? Because they could of said ‘like his friends’. And no it’s not because they’re best friends- they even specifIed in Lucas bio he’s “ Mike’s best friend” (which was even mentioned in s1).

.In Mike’s character description it says “ bullying and near-crippling insecurity. He has never had a first kiss, much less a girlfriend.He ESCAPES his insecurities through reading fantasy novels … retreating into his own vivid imagination. The Dungeon Master of his Dungeons and Dragons group, he writes sprawling adventures with fantastical monsters.When he finds himself on a real adventure, facing real monsters, he will discover a courage he didn’t know he had. By the end, he will even kiss a girl.”

*Interesting that Mike uses D&D to escape his insecurities about not having a gf (retreating into his imagination). While Will (who is somewhat aware of his sexuality) uses d&d to escape and be himself uninhibited. They’re foils in a sense- using d&d for opposing reasons.

So the s3 fight about d&d games has a lot more meaning

Mike equates heterosexual romance with ‘growing up’ and his feeling for Will as something childish he has to grow out of.When they fight over d&d. Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”, then he tries to ½ apologize only to say, “I’m not trying to be a jerk. Ok? But We’re not kids anymore.” He pretty much explains, this is just the way things are-boys fall in love with girls, get girlfriends, and that’s just a part of growing up (heteronormativity). And tells Will “I mean, what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? We were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?” And poor Will who is probably more aware of his feelings just responds. “Yeah. I guess I did. I really did.” And after this Mike rushes to Will’s house and apologizes saying he was an “asshole.”When he tries to say he loves El . It was very forced. He can’t even use the world love or explain his feelings, “A feeling … yeah, like, something… like OLD PEOPLE say it sometimes”.

He can’t even describe love and what his “feelings” entail for El , he then says “Yeah, like something , like old people say it some times. He doesn’t even say it back in the last ep, when she confesses. It’s all talk, but no feeling, it’s just a part of becoming an adult in Mike’s mind.

In the last ep before the mileven kiss, he even invites both El and Will over for Christmas saying “ And Will too… we could all have new presents to play with and�� *scoffs* Sorry, that made me sound like a 7 year old... ”

And it’s implied in the last ep (before the mileven kiss), because of the 3 month breakup Mike is back to liking d &d. When Mike sees Will put his own d&d book in the donation box he stops him.

Mike: “WHOA, dude that’s the donation box.”

Will: “ I know, I’ll just use yours, when I come back. (pause) if WE still want to play?”

So then Mike asks, shyly …

Mike : “Yeah, but what if you want to join another party?” (cough- girls , the other ‘species’, or just someone else: girl, guy or otherwise)

Will: “Not possible.” (Will will always love Mike- insert Mikes immediate heart-eye reaction to this comment).

I think people don’t notice what the subtext is here- regardless of his intentions, Mike broke Will’s heart. He made him feel “stupid” for ever thinking he ever had a chance with Mike. He always saw Mike as his forever, but Mike shot any hopes of that down in the garage. Will doesn’t trust his own instincts. Mike could straight up flirt with him in s4/5- and Will would dismiss it as his imagination. He essentially said ‘he’ll always love Mike- but if something is going to happen. It’s up to Mike to initiate it’.

Mike was queer coded since ep 1 (and he’s more queer coded than Will)!

I LITERALLY thought (in s1) Mike was queer before Will!

- 3 rainbow references. Mike in s1 in his basement has a red heart being propelled by a rainbow sign. We see this again in s3 as a drawing. Mike also stands next to Will behind a rainbow apple poster in s2. Forbidden fruit + rainbow = queer forbidden romance. Also the apple poster was in the AV Club and at that time the rainbow apple-mac sign was suspected to be in reference to for Alan Turning (the gay ‘father of computers’).

In s1:

- 4 separate characters said El looked like a boy, but Mike doesn’t care! Even one of the men thought El might be the missing ‘Byers boy’. When El loses her wig , Troy said “she doesn’t even look like a girl” to the cops. But Mike just calls her “really pretty”

-Nancy says “I thought you were acting weird, but I thought it was because of Will” And Mike responds “I thought you were acting weird too I thought it was because of Steve … Do you like Jonathan now”?” Nancy: “No, do you like Eleven?”. They literally compared the explicit love triangle between Steve/Nancy/Jonathan to the Will-Mike-El dynamic!

- Mike literally uses gender inclusive pronouns when talking about crushes using the word “someone” (3 times), and embarrassing himself because he can’t articulate the difference between friendship and romance. When he could of simply given the 80s heteronormative answer of ‘when a boy likes a girl’.

Mike: “ you go to school dances with someone.

You know someone that you like”

El: “a friend?”

Mike: ‘not a friend uh … uh someone like a” (gives up and kisses her)

-Mike’s mom said “ What’s been going on with Will, I can’t imagine what it’s been like for you. I just … want you to feel like you can talk to me. I never want you to feel like you have to HIDE anything from me” (she even emphasizes the word ‘hide” (which is heavily queer coded)

- when Will ‘dies’, “we can be heroes” by David bowie (a bisexual singer) plays, “And we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame” is the lyric that plays when Mike returns to his house and cries in his mother’s arms over the ‘death’ of Will. Do I have to explain how ‘kissing and shame’ are queer-coded . And how such a lyric is oddly romantic- if we’re supposed to see their bond as nothing but platonic XD

-his dad jokes “Absolutely not” *turns to wife* “our son with a girl?”.

- when Lucas makes fun of his crush on EL, Lucas gets down on one knee and says “ I love you so much, will you marry me?” and literally 1s later, we’re introduced to the bullies and the idea (for the first time) that Will is ‘gay’, and Mike is in the forefront of the scene and unlike his friends he is THE ONLY ONE physically assaulted as they cause him to fall face first into a rock (like a gay-bashing) . They leave Lucas and Dustin unharmed. Even though Lucas just proposed to another guy- which should have gotten him a beating by the homophobic bullies.

It’s supposed to subconsciously hint Mike is queer like Will, and likes Will. The first interaction with the bullies, they mention Will being ‘gay’ right after they mention Mike’s crush on androgynous El and have a guy propose to Mike. Mike says to “ignore them” ( the homophobic remarks) but is assaulted anyways. And when asked what happed he doesn’t want to tell El the details cause he’s ashamed .

2nd time the bullies talk about Will, Mike is once again in the forefront, unlike his straight friends who are in the background . But this time Mike initiates the confrontation), as the bullies say Will is “flying in fairyland with all the other little fairies. All happy and gay”. Mike was literally on the verge or tears at this comment (despite being happy a few moments earlier , telling the others to ‘act sad’ because they’d look suspicious other wise). But this is the comment where Mike snaps and pushes Troy back (because he took it personally/wanted to defend Will).

The framing of Mike once again being in the front and snapping at the homophobic remarks ( gifs don’t do it justice, just rewatch the scene -Mike eyes water at the remarks). Then the last time the bullies appear , Mike jumps off the cliff and “flies like a fairy” (like Troy said) thanks to El . Troy at the police station even uses the word “fly” not levitate.

-Mike sneaking out to find Will, as Steve sneaks in to Nancy’s. They both even make eye contact (and pretend not to have seen each other).

- they share dinosaur toys , in s1 and 2 they appear to be the only ones with dinosaur toys.

- The s1 mom hug scene where Mike feels he lost Will is paralleled in s3 - signifying how he lost him a 2nd time.

- Mike in the 1st ep being the one to insist on looking for Will in the rain (callback to s3). But he never went looking for El when he saw her through his window? Even when Mike saw Will’s dead body, the second he heard his voice he convinced his friends to help rescue him!

- You remember the binder (from s1) that Mike keeps, filled with 100s of Will’s drawings, and how he caresses the drawing after thinking Will was dead. That’s totes platonic.

- Mike in s1 proclaiming “I’m the only one who cares about Will!” Seems like something a kid with a crush might say ( because obviously his other friends care about Will). But he thinks he cares the most. He was even the first to worry about Will not showing up to school, the first to suggest looking for him while speaking to Hopper, and when Hopper and his parents say ‘no’ he sneaks out anyway (and is the first to suggest forming a search party). The first to believe he was alive after seeing his dead body.The only boy to have a scene dedicated solely to him mourning Will. Mike being the only boy to stay awake at the hospital, and the first boy to see and hug Will. The only one to have a private one on one talk before Will goes missing. The only one who was literally given 100s of Will’s drawings. And yet Dustin says Lucas’ is Mike’s best friend? So what does that make Mike and Will?

In s2:

- Will in all 3 seasons identifies as a wizard. But in s2 Mike (the paladin) says Will is a cleric. Meaning this reflects how Mike actually feels about Will. In d&d, they have similar moral values, powers, and generally need and depend on each other in the lore of d&d. Paladins have similar healing powers to clerics, but clerics have stronger healing abilities - which is interesting since Mike has always been viewed as the protector. But to Mike Will has helped him (maybe deal with the loss of El and other trauma) , just by being there. And if Mike says Will is a cleric,despite Will still identifying as a wizard in s3, it shows how deeply Mike actually feels about Will. It shows he views Will as one of the only people who understands him and views him as a healing presence and his moral compass.

“ strength of conviction gave many paladins a sense of common fellowship but did not always endear them to others. In many cases, paladins did not get along quite as well with other non-paladin adventurers, with the exception of clerics with similar beliefs.”

“A Paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous Paladin is fallible. Sometimes the heat of emotion causes a Paladin to transgress his or her oath (of honesty, courage, compassion, honor ,and duty). A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.”

This proves Mike knows he treats Will special/different than his other friends- and unlike a relationship with El (they are still individuals who are not dependent on each other). And Mike thinks being with Will quite literally makes him a better person. Juxtaposed with how him being in a romantic relationship with El made him blind and apathetic to those closest to him .

- All the mileven s1 parallels vs byler s2 parallels were ALL initiated by Mike. If the parallels were meant to show a one sided love triangle (on Mike’s end). They would of made Will the instigator not Mike! Parallels can be watched here , start at 6:50)

-Mike initiated the “crazy together’ line- and in s3 he said ‘blank makes you crazy’. So subconsciously he knew the line had romantic connotations.

-Mike initiating the hand hold (with a zoom in shot) and in the show this is only done for romantic pairings. Also Mike being the one to initiate the ‘arm thing’ which is generally romantic. But in s3 , Lucas also does this, saying “I am spending quality time with my girlfriend’

-Mike saying, asking him to be his friend was the “best thing I’ve ever done”

-Mike constantly following Will around, asking if he’s okay or biking to his house to check on him in s2 . In s3 running out to chase Will to the garage and apologizing, and running into a storm to apologize a 2nd time.

YOU SEE A PATTERN! Mike is whipped! And is the one constantly chasing and pursuing Will, not the other way around! Before s3, people always portrayed Will as the (stereotypical- problematic trope of a) sad-pinning-gay in a one sided love with Mike. It’s like people didn’t even watch the show (and just assigned tropes/stereotypes they wanted, that weren’t actually there). Will (probably too shy or scared to- because of homophobic taunts) never initiated a single byler moment- it was ALWAYS Mike!!! If people were actually objective, they would of thought it was Mike who was the one pinning!

- Which brings me to Mike literally pinning! Mike forcing Will to dance with a girl (who has a rainbow hairclip), but you literally see Mike’s shocked expression like ‘what,why’d I do that ?’ And after this, they show Dustin looking sad about Max/Lucas dancing and then they have Mike get into the frame (next to Dustin) and look sad when Will/girl are dancing in the same exact frame as Max/Lucas. As they switch between these last 2 shots.

the cannon Spotify playlists-called ‘Mike’s basement beats’- These are character playlists that Spotify and St worked on together after s2.

-his first song is “small town boy” an 80s LGBT anthem about living in a small town and being queer and bullied. Every band member was openly gay.

-his 11th song is ‘don’t you want me’ from a “celebrate your gay pride” album

* But queer people are “delusional” for thinking Mike isn’t straight? And are told to “open your eyes and watch the show” (that was an actual quote in the byler tag). Ok? Take your own advice, then! XD

One of the Duffers cited inspirations for ST is SUPER GAY (and what they based the byler dynamic off of).

In the Will comic, Will throws an old 1970s book called “house of stairs” at the demorgorgan. And in a later chapter Mike and Will just read together at the library (just silently reading together, enjoying each others’ company-totally not a romantic cliche).And Mike warns Will the book ‘could have spoilers’ for the d&d campaign. Also look at this byler-centric cover :)

Peter (Will) is shy, quiet ,initially a pushover, and gay-coded. And as a coping mechanism he has psychological-breaks with reality where he thinks of his best friend from the orphanage, Jasper (Mike) . Another kidnapped boy, named Oliver (who looks just like Jasper/Mike) is also queer-coded (but a violent-sociopath). And, unlike Jasper who actually wanted to protect/take care of Peter -Oliver starts to gets a sick thrill out of making Peter dependent on him (which Peter catches on to pretty quickly). Oliver was insistent on being the only one to ‘wake’ Peter from his episodes (just like how Mike did for Will, in s2), except Oliver calls him pet-names like “sweetheart, baby, etc.”

And again to prove it’s queer-coded I’ll read some of the (shortened) quotes, in the order they were written. These are quotes from Peter (Will’s) pov talking about his childhood best-friend Jasper (Mike) .

-“his room. His and jaspers room. Jasper looking up from his desk, smiling glad to see him. Jasper saying . Something very important. The most important message, the secret message. He couldn’t hear him . But jasper keeps smiling , keeps talking . What was the message, jasper? What was the message? The dream had been beautiful at the beginning, terrible at the end, but he longed to be in it again. If only he hadn’t awakened.”

-“Jasper sitting on the bed and taking off his shoes ,smiling, ‘you’re okay pete, you’re better than a hundered of those slobs put together. Tomorrow I’ll tell them so myself‘ jasper’s strong, hard body as he got into bed ,so different from peter’s. Strong, to protect him to take care of him. Jasper, who always took care of him”.

-“He wanted to think about oliver it it was like having Jasper back again. It would disturb him to see Oliver go off with Abigail… the rejection quite painful. It had never been like that with Jasper…jasper.

-The room they shared with rainbow colors, murmuring comforting words to him , enclosing and protecting him. He let himself drift into it, the rainbow hues dimness.”

-“No one ever depended on him. It was he who always depended on others, on Jasper. jasper, who had always taken care of him. Jasper…”

later he admits his feelings for Jasper to Lola/el. Lola and Pete are plantonic soulmates. The only reason why they survive and don’t succumb to their dark and violent urges/psychological brainwashing is because of each other. Lola has brown hair and eyes and has a buzzcut and is heavily implied to be a lesbian (as she is the only girl in the group who is not fooled by Oliver’s ‘nice guy act’. Which makes the other girls ‘suspicious’ and alienate her). Also this was written in the 70s… she has a buzzcut and is said to “look like a boy”. It’s not that subtle! There was a reason that the author whose first name was WILLIAM (was suspected to be gay/bi when he was alive)! XD

-Peter says “ he was my friend we were always together . Jasper his name was jasper .in the dream he’s taking care of me’. Now he was beginning to cry, his throat constricting and tears welling up in his eyes .’taking care of me … he always took care of me… taking care of me, and , and … and loving me’. ‘”It was the best time in your life’ she murmured’. ‘Yes’ “

* cough protective childhood friend, rainbows, ‘best time of your life = best thing I ever did.

S3 ending (byler centric ending)

When we first see Mike during the Hopper mologue, the moving truck leaves. “Like you’re pulling away from me or something. I miss playing board games every night (d &d)”… (the last thing they talked about was Will visiting to play d&d and their fight this season started because of a disagreement about d&d.)

Then Mike looks back at the Byers house (just lingers there and looks back as his friends leave) like how Will did seeing Mike hold hands with El and leave . “But I know you’re getting older, growing, changing. I guess, if I’m being really honest, that’s what scares me. I don’t want things to change.”Mike , like Will “doesn’t want things things to change”. He doesn’t want his his feelings of friendship to become romantic in regards to Will, it “scares” him (especially in rural 80s Indiana). Right after Will cries, it immediately switches to Mike hugging his mom- to mirror the time he thought Will died in s1 “So I think maybe that’s why I came in here, to try and maybe stop that change. To turn back the clock. To make things go back to how they were.” He goes back to his mother for comfort, like he did the 1st time he lost Will. But also to reverse back time, to s1, before he realized his feelings for Will were romantic. When things were simpler.

“But I know that’s naive. It’s just not how life works. It’s moving, always moving, whether you like it or not. And yeah, sometimes it’s painful. Sometimes it’s sad. And sometimes, it’s surprising. Happy.” (byler endgame)

Will (in s2) even says everyone treats him like ‘freak/ that something is wrong with him’ (purposely leaving out Mike from the discussion). And then when Will disparages himself as a freak,and Jonathan agrees but asks Will, ‘who would he rather be friends with- David Bowie (who was openly bi since the 70s) or Kenny Rogers’? And when Will says Bowie, Jonathan agrees saying “see, it’s no contest”.

So, it’s just another coincidence that when Will ‘dies’ (in s1) a David Bowie song (‘we can be heroes’) plays. And as Mike hugs his mom, mourning Will - a romantic lyric from the song plays during the hug?“And we kiss, as though nothing could fall. And the shame” (which is heavily queer coded)?

And then in the last ep (in s3) Mike mirrors this scene in s1, hugging his mom, since he feels like he’s losing Will all over again. And right after the hug (‘we can be heroes’) plays again!? I’m not saying byler is endgame. But- WAIT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I’M SAYING! XD

These men literally invented ‘hetero-baiting’ (with Robin & Steve) and you think they’re going to queer bait?!

Also, if Will was a girl named ‘Willow” no one would call byler ‘delusional’ ! Even the most casual viewer would say it’s obvious they’d end up together in the end!

If the witness said about El in s1 , “ same height… it could be the Byers girl”, instead of ‘boy’ (pointing out the resemblance). Mike only meeting El cause he was looking for Willow. Proclaiming “i’m the only one who cares about Willow!” . Mike getting into fights and getting upset (almost crying) about the bullies insulting Willow. Mike only getting angry at El when he thinks she lied about Willow being alive. Mike being the only boy who has a scene dedicated to his loss of her (with the same romantic lyrics playing). Mike having a whole binder of her drawings and caressing one of the drawings, after he thinks she died. Mike being the only one of her friends to stay awake at the hospital, waiting for her to wake up- so he can see her and hug her first. People probably would of started shipping it the second Willow stared at him and was the only one who didn’t lie to him, in the first ep! Another parallel to El!

If Will was Willow, the majority of the fandom would be byler shippers. Think about it! . Mike having s2 byler scenes that are identical to s1 mileven scenes, and then additional unique byler scenes. Mike staying by Willow’s side 24 hours a day for several days (not even changing clothes), carrying her out of the hospital, grabbing her hand (with a zoom in shot),constantly asking her if she’s okay at least 5-7 times, putting his arm around her twice, being the only one who could tell something was off with her (and it wasn’t her normal type of quiet). Calling and running all the way to her house and banging on the door to check on her, desperate. Watching her sleep cause he’s so worried. That shed scene reminiscing about how they first met in perfect detail, saying “I asked, I asked if you wanted to be my friend. You said yes, you said yes. It was the best thing I’ve ever done. (like a marriage proposal)” The “crazy together” scene. Them being close since they were 5 vs the girl he knew for a week (but is somehow in love with?). In s2 if Mike sadly watched Willow dance with another guy , while Dustin does the same to Max. Forget it- everyone would already know mileven would be doomed to fail.

And again think about s3 if Will was a girl.They parallel the (comedic) mileven breakup vs (the sad/serious) byler breakup. Then Mike just complains and burps on the couch vs apologizing to Willlow multiple times/even going into a storm to apologize a 2nd time (and to ‘talk’). Willow having a breakdown over the fight vs El laughing and high five-ing Max after.The shed vs the pool shed scene- “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “you’re the most important thing in the world to me”, “blank makes you crazy’ (as El stares confused) vs “crazy together’ (where Willow says ‘yeah, crazy together’). Mike going on ‘movie dates with Willlow all the time’ right after making out with El. The last mileven kiss where Mike has his eyes open the whole time, and doesn’t kiss back. And saying he doesn’t remember saying “I love” you to El (and doesn’t say ‘I love you’ back). Right after having a talk with Willow about playing games when she comes back (the crux of their fight). Mike getting excited that he’ll be able to visit El and Willow on Thanksgiving and them visiting him on Christmas (those are holidays where family usually introduces their S.O.) Having the last scene of Mike, be him looking back at Willow’s house, and have that whole monologue about “feelings changing”, and then he goes to hug his mom like the s1 byler scene where he thought Willow was dead, signifying he lost her again. And that’s not even all the scenes- and every time byler won by a landslide. If Will was a girl, we wouldn’t be ‘delusional’! It would be obvious writing on the wall, that Mike would eventually choose Willow over El by the end of the series.

But since they are 2 boys, we’re delusional, because queer kids don’t exist … apparently.

*S3-I’m not repeating my literal essays but they’re probably better than this post so here are the links to pretty much all my s3 byler meta. (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x)

gif credit: 1st few have the name stark in the gifs, 2nd byler gif (found on wheheart.com- user dream_daisy, not sure if they also have a Tumblr , 3rd livelovecaliforniadreams, 4th &10th Cath-avery, 5& 6th unknown, 7-9 eggogorgon . Tell me if you know the unknown one so I can give credit , please.

#byler #byeler

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evakuality · 5 years ago

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Since we are all bored in quarantine I have a prompt for you. You've (jointly!) written two Davenzi soulmate AUs, and I am curious if there are qualities or events in canon that you consider solid 'soulmate material'? As distinct from other really good pairings.

Hmmmm, this is a really interesting question, anon. First, I have actually written other soulmate things for other pairs under a different name (and no I won’t say what name that is!), but you’re right in that Davenzi are the only pair so far that I’ve done more than one for. In general I just like soulmate ideas, at least when there’s some sort of difficulty around it, where it’s not just ‘find your soulmate and everything is wonderful’ - I need there to be some ‘what sort of world would this look like?’ stuff. So from one point of view, I just like exploring soulmates and the ways that can look.

(putting the rest behind a barrier because as usual for me, it got long)

Still, I’ve been thinking about this ever since I got this ask and I think there are things that feel more soulmatey with Davenzi than other pairings I enjoy. To be clear, when I think soulmates in ‘realistic’ terms I think more about equality, compatibility, trust and therefore the longevity potential of the couple rather than actually being ‘connected mystically’ since I don’t believe that exists in the real world (lol as if fiction is ‘the real world’ but you know what I mean). And in those terms I feel like Davenzi have more of that than other ‘really good’ pairings I enjoy.

One thing Davenzi has that a lot of the other pairings I love don’t is that they are both at the same age and the same stage of life. I know it’s a personal thing, but I love equality between the characters I fall for and it’s very very hard to do that when there’s an age or experience gap. I’ve seen it done well sometimes (I would argue that at least at times this can be true even of Evak), but it often just doesn’t work for me. So Davenzi already have that on their side. And then they both deep down just want the same thing: to be loved and accepted for who they are. There’s a compatibility in what they want, and also in the way they go about loving. They each do that in the way the other most needs: Matteo with an absolute rock hard conviction that they should be together and refusal to accept anything else (which David needs since he has a tendency to try to push away even those closest to him). David with a gentle pressure that knocks Matteo out of apathy and lets him know that he’s been seen and accepted for who he is, which is what he wants most (think of that ‘fitting in’ speech he gives Sara).

This is true for another of my loves as well, of course. Evak also both want to be loved and both think their true self is unloveable in some ways, and I do absolutely love their dynamic in which they both even out what the other most needs. But the thing that’s different between the two pairings is how long they keep secrets from each other for, and that degree of trust they have. It’s pretty clear that Even is still very insecure about himself and his worthiness in comparison to Isak. Isak seems to be fairly secure, except where it comes to Even’s old friends (and how sad that we never really got to explore either of those issues - there was so much there that was left unspoken). They do trust each other, but they also hide things from each other and/or avoid talking to each other about those things.

But what we see with David, for example, is that once he has Matteo’s support and the rest of the gang has made it clear that they’re with him too, he doesn’t seem to obsess over it the way Even does and he doesn’t keep more secrets. The things he and Even were hiding are very different of course, but it does lead to a different sort of dynamic between the pairings. David doesn’t appear to have any further secrets left and so he and Matteo are very secure pretty much as soon as s3 is over. Even still holds some things tight to his chest right through s4 and so while I do think Even and Isak are rock solid, I feel like they need more time and communication to get to the point where Davenzi are by the end of s4.

Or look at a couple like Jonas and Hanna, who I also enjoy by the end of s4. Their issues stemmed from a problem of mistrust and miscommunication (and from other people messing up their relationship with half truths etc). I think they are a ‘really good’ couple, but there’s no way they radiate ‘soulmate’ energy the way Davenzi does for me. They were never equal to start with (Jonas always considered himself superior to her and he had relationship experience etc), and while they are compatible, the lack of trust and bad communication caused some disastrous problems for them.

The thing with all three of these couples is that I do think they all work extremely well together at least in the end. They are all what I would class as ‘really good pairings’ and they are all compatible with each other. But the thing that, for me, defines that idea of ‘meant to be’ is more prevalent in Davenzi. If we break it down by the categories I said at the start:

Jonas and Hanna: equal: not really, though it’s better by the time they get back together. They’ve both had pining experience over the other since they broke up and they both decide they want to work at the relationship. Compatible: yeah, though again it’s something they may need to work at a little. But one thing they always did have was that they seem like they’re friends as well as lovers and that’s always important as well. Trust: hmmmm, well, certainly not at the start, and I think there are still things they need to work through by the time we see them at the end of s4, but I do think they have the tools now. Longevity potential: I’m not 100% sure that they will last forever. I think they can, but it would take work and so because of that I can’t say I see this as ‘soulmates’ in the way I imagine that looks in real life.

Evak: equal: in many ways, yes. But we do have the issue that Even was older and had more experience when they met and so he took the lead in a way that meant Isak became more of a follower than he had been in the past. Then, Isak was much more easily able to slip into a situation where he saw them as together forever, whereas Even still had his insecurities and fears and so he was keeping things back from Isak for a lot longer. So while they’re equal, there are ways in which there are/were still some imbalances. The fact that Even is seen as mysterious and unattainable by Isak for so long is such an integral part of their dynamic that it’s hard to ignore it even once the tables turn later in their story. Compatible: yes definitely, no questions here at all. They work together in a way that’s really wonderful to see, and they do each give the other what he most needs. Trust: well, Even’s tendencies to think of himself as not good enough and therefore to hide things from Isak is a possible point of contention. Longevity potential: If they talk it all through, I feel like there’s a good chance for things to be really amazing with them into the future, but Even’s issues with being fully open have the potential to be a stumbling block. I think they have a MUCH better chance at lasting than Jonas and Hanna, but there’s that one shadow looming. I suspect this would have been different if we’d been allowed to see their complete story but because we never did then we get this thing where it could go one way or the other.

Davenzi: equal: yes. They are the same age, they’re in a similar situation to each other, they want and need similar things. Compatible: yes, definitely. The things they each need are given to each other very freely and effortlessly (think about the way Matteo immediately respects David’s boundaries when he says the pinned together pages of his art book are too private, the way he hears ‘I’m not into you’ and absolutely refuses to accept it as truth because he sees easily behind the words to the truth of David’s feelings even if he’s a little confused, or the way David encourages Matteo, without being aggressive, in the early days or the way he lets Matteo lean on him when he needs it, and seems to readily know exactly when those moments are, but also can get Matteo to do what he needs to do by perfectly aimed reverse psychology stuff). Trust: I literally wrote an entire multi-part meta series on how good these two are at communication even when they aren’t great at it verbally. Because of this, by the time David has opened up to Matteo about being trans they are rock solid despite some of the stuff that happens. From that moment they are completely together and that’s never shaken at all. Longevity potential: I just can’t imagine a pairing that’s less likely to split than these two. The communication stuff is so important, they survived an entire road trip together, they just seem to ‘get’ each other, and know what the other needs, in a way that is very natural and effortless. Their similarities and differences just seem to blend together perfectly in a way that’s really hard to define, but that has a lot to do with the fact that they are the same age and they have had similar experiences.

To be completely clear: I love all three of these pairings, but this is just to show my own personal reasonings for why I see ‘soulmatehood’ more in one than the others. Also to be clear: I fully expect all of them to make it and I will never write any of them breaking up. But this is just how I see each of the three dynamics.

#druck #my meta stuff #Anonymous

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laufire · 4 years ago

Text

Black Sails s3

This one took me longer because RL got in the way LOL. I’ve loved it as much as the other two (even if I am IN PAIN over you-know-who’s death DD:). I don’t know when I’ll have the time to finish the last season, but I wanted to post about this one before starting it; otherwise it’d accumulate with the 10+ and counting metas I want to write about this show once I have the full picture LMAO.

Max

As always, I have to start with her because she’s THE FUCKING BEST. This woman is currently competing for the number one spot among fictional characters in my heart LOL (I mean. I have loved Caroline Forbes --who I actually think Max has a lot in common with lmao. Everything I love is the same, as I always say-- for too many years for her to ever be truly dethroned; unless something goes really wrong with Legacies I guess. However, it’s still remarkable that a character could make me doubt).

I’ve absolutely adored her plot this season; watching her growing sphere of influence, the way she affects and upends others’ lives. That’s very much being present since season one, especially with her and Silver in tandem (I have a lot of Thoughts(TM) about those too as a driving/disruptive force in the show --they’ll go to one of those metas--; I’m put off by the fact that I didn’t get to enjoy them conspiring together this season lol. Though her reaction to the fake Long John Silver letter was kind of hilarious xDD. Still. I kind of wish we’d seen the scene where Silver tells her he renounces to his part of the price. It could’ve been very interesting --I guess he could’ve told Jack but that wouldn’t’ve been as good, so this is my headcanon).

The most obvious storyline where this manifest is in her relationship with Anne and Jack. I love everything about it, but well. I have to admit, the ~betrayal/different sides element appeals to me xD. I like that Max prioritices herself and her safety. That she sees the writing on the wall with the English invasion or with Vane’s execution and acts accordingly, the way she calculates her decisions and forms alliances without letting past grievances get in the way --with Eleanor, Rogers, Mrs. Mapleton...--, the choices she makes because she doesn’t want to be “on the outside looking in” ever again and how they always end reverting in her benefit, ultimately (I’m getting ahead because I am spoiled of quite a few things about s4, but I LOVE that eventually she mends her relationship with Anne and Jack. Because it fits into this: how even the possible mistakes and emotional compromises she makes are within a very specific frame that works out for her in the end).

Her relationship with Anne gets even better this season. I think my favourite scene is where Max tells Anne that she nows Anne “cannot fathom leaving me”. Can I get this woman’s confidence LMFAO. But seriously. I luff them. I love how Max convinces Jack of going along her plan to replace the gold with good easier to transport (and how THAT ends up being Flint’s treasure asdñlfkasfj. MY GIRL DIRECTLY CAUSED THE EVENTS IN TREASURE ISLAND OKAY) by appealing to their mutual love for Anne. That she trusts Anne with the story about her father. That she knows just as well as Jack that Anne wouldn’t give up the treasure so easily and she’ll try to save him (and that Anne won’t stomach the thought of Jack being tortured because she couldn’t bear MAX’S torture. My heart).

Another highlight of the season for me was her relationship with Eleanor, which keeps being a huge surprise no matter what xDD (even if, again, never in a shippy way. I’m very glad the season doesn’t go there). I love the reversal of expectation in a general fandom landscape: how ultimately, Eleanor doesn’t have an emotional hold over Max (and that she lost it as early as 1x02, IMO. I’m not saying “Max doesn’t feel anything about Eleanor”, but the truth of the matter is, narratively Eleanor serves Max, not the other way around. And I’m happy and relieved about it, ngl), and that the same isn’t true the other way around. I thought two very telling scenes where a.) Max hosting parody trials of Eleanor that paint her under a completely undignified light, but clearly deriving no pleasure from it: it simply was yet another thing she does for practically, level-headed political reasons; and b.) that Eleanor orders Rogers’ men not to hurt Anne in the exchange because Max’s love for Anne.

Continuing down with Max’s relationships, I’ve grown to really like hers with Idelle. I think Max find Idelle fun, likeable, uncomplicated (the scene where Featherstone tells Idelle he hopes his pardon doesn’t diminish her attraction to her was hilarious and clearly the moment Max was enjoying herself the most in the whole season lmfao. BTW, I kinda liked Idelle/Featherstone since the moment he told Jack he wasn’t concerned because “he was in love with a good woman” and Jack was like “Idelle??”. Yes, it’s fun because client-falling-for-sex-worker is a pitiful cliché, but here’s the thing: he’s right xD. He didn’t say “I’m in love with a woman who loves me”. He said he was in love with someone GOOD and Idelle IS a good woman, dammit xDD).

Max doesn’t concern herself much with the idea of Idelle going behind her back because Idelle loves her, respects her, and is a loyal friend (and yet clearly sees Max exactly as she is and doesn’t have any delusions about it. Luckily for her Max is probably the type to feel angry but not vengeful about this lol, if only because it could reflect on her). And Max is right about that. But I love that Idelle still has it in her to take a different path by allying herself with the pirates. I’m curious about the reasoning being after Max makes Mrs. Mapleton madam again; it’s clear the girls aren’t happy about her and she didn’t seem like she took good care of them in s1, to put it mildly, so there’s some of that, but I like to think part of it was Idelle going, “seriously Max? I’m right here! I could be the Madam!” xDD.

Her dynamic with Mrs. Mapleton was really interesting too; I like how she too puts aside any old grudge and decides to put her bets with Max over Eleanor or Rogers, because she has confidence that Max and her methods (“I choose to let the players reveal themselves to me, least I make an enemy out of someone I might wish to call a friend one day”) will outlast them (btw, that line/her approach in general --as well as Silver’s “liked is a good as feared” MO--, kind of reminded me to Sansa Stark’s “If I am ever queen, I will make them love me.” line. Food for thought). Yet I think Mrs. Mapleton instructed Georgia to attempt to ~seduce Max to get information out of her, which is very much in line with her. I loled at Max’s reaction basically being “gurl, who do you think you’re talking to. I practically invented this. GTFO” xDD

Basically, her entire storyline this season was pure gold. I love how all of those dynamics come from her maneuvers to keep herself safe, in power, and with influence (because those go hand in hand). I love her pride and her confidence, the way she refuses the scraps Eleanor and Rogers intend to give her at first (and how she firmly says to Eleanor “people do not speak to me that way anymore”, how she establishes a new normal between them), and how she pays her way out of trouble/into power with the gold she stole from Flint & co xDD.

My favourite moment of hers is devided between “in another time, in another place, they would call me a queen”, and “I AM Nassau” (that made me decide that if I ever write fic where Max needs a last name for any reason, it’s going to be Nassau. It is law), and how meta they’ll turn out to be :DD. I also have Thoughts about the evolution of her styles (beyond the obvious “omg she’s soooooo beautifuuuuul” lmao) but I’ll leave that for another show-encompassing meta too :P

Madi

She catapulted herself to Forever Fave status pretty quickly (I may have too many of those in this show. W h a t e v e r xDD). I love how self-assured she is (“when I speak my men listen, and they do as I say”), and how she always thinks of the big picture (like when she fought her impulse to order her men to fight against the pirates after one of them beat one of hers). And I have a lot of Feels about how this is explicitly linked to her heritage, her mother and father, their ~legacies.

Speaking of: one of the few major spoilers I seem to have avoided was that Mr. Scott was Madi’s father LOL. I was DELIGHTED by that reveal, and how it makes you reconsider his story. His relationship with Eleanor could’ve been a frankly off-putting cliché, but this completely circumvents that; it’s true that he’d shown more independence from her than I would’ve expected in another show, by leaving her side to do his own thing and further contributing to her vulnerability. But giving him a real* family, one that he prioritises over Eleanor and HID FROM HER, using her position to their benefit... That’s on a whole other level.

*I know some people are going to object to this qualifier. Fandom gets like that about found families, adopted families, etc. And I get it, but this is NOT like those situations. Mr. Scott was Eleanor’s SLAVE, FFS. That is incompatible with being her family, her father figure, no matter what she thought. And I love that the show made it explicit, when Madi tried to talk about his “two daughters” and he said “NO. ONLY YOU” in his deathbed (I might or might not have cried, okay. It may be one of my favourite scenes in the whole series). Especially when there’s a very obvious trend of characters of color COINCIDENTALLY being written as prioritizing white characters over their biological families, at the cost of their health and even their lives (I am still not over Monty being forced to kill his own mother to protect Octavia in The 100. Fuck that shit, seriously). Black Sails deciding to do the oposite here is FUCKING REVOLUTIONARY and I love it to pieces.

Another thing I loved is that they picked an actress that looks more like Mr. Scott than like her mother or Max (darker skin etc.): aka how the few black female characters that usually get what Madi will from Silver --that ~eternal devotion, willing to go against anything and anyone for her etc.-- tend to look.

Unsurprisingly, I like Madi/Silver VERY MUCH lol. I like that he is immediately ~drawn to her, in a subtle way, and viceversa (like in the scene where he’s still in the cage watching how she has trouble breathing after seeing her wounded father, or when they hug after his death). All their talks about power, responsibility, succession etc. are really good. And her concern for him is as palpable as probably inconvenient for her xD. I love the scene where she holds her hand as his leg is treated, or her worry one Silver calls himself a “one legged creature”. Though my favourite might be when he smiles when she shows concern for his state after killing Dufresne, and she’s like “well duh, if you fall apart the alliance between my people and yours is screwed” xDD

And though there hasn’t been much development yet on that side, I’m already so onboard with Flint/Madi/Silver lmfao. I love that nod of ~acknowledgment between Flint and Madi with the Maroon Queen’s voiceover about how Madi will have as much authority as Flint in his own ship xD. Her concern about Silver’s relationship with him is kind of ironic knowing that they’ll eventually find themselves more aligned between them than with Silver, by virtue of their many commonalities LOL. And there’s already traces of that ot3 feels, like when Madi tells Silver that the mistake of those “other people close to Flint” that he’s so scared of following to the grave was trying to deal with Flint alone (Madi’s seduction technique: kindness, understanding, and offers of partnership. I dig it).

I want more scenes of and with her mother, too. And between her mother and Silver, since apparently the Maroon Queen trusts him among all the pirates NOT to betray them for money (Jack saying the irony wasn’t lost on him and Flitn was hilarious xD) and that has to be thanks to Madi’s opinion of him. I’m kind of bitter we never got a Mr. Scott & Silver scene, too, especially after Silver and Madi become romantically involved. I love that stuff.

Miranda

I could just upload a bunch of gifs of various crying/in pain/etc. states here because WORDS CANNOT EXPRESS THE PAINNN. I was ~feeling Flint’s grief the entire time, I swear (though... did it have to express itself by shaving his head... asking for a friend). The violence he kept inflicting in her name (her word will be the last word); how he convinced his crew, Silver included, to go into the storm rather than surrendering, for her (and narratively speaking Silver is right, he did conjure it xDD). How fucking tired he is of it all (“you can talk your way part it”, “I don’t know that I have any more lies left in me”).

As far as I’m concerned he could be hallucinating her the rest of the show (I’m going to miss seeing her so much... especially in light of the ending), as painful as I find those scenes. At this point “But when I lost you... I am ruined over you” is an instant tear-jerker, ugh. So is Flint wantint to let go and “be with her”, and ghost!Miranda saying she’d resent him for giving up. Though my favourite is when Miranda basically describes herself as his “maker”, about how she ~shaped him *clenches fist*. I love those kinds of ships.

BTW: I think the moment Rogers mentioned Thomas, Miranda’s ghost, Flint, and I, yelled “HOW DARE YOU SAY HIS NAME” on the inside xD

Flint & Silver

Sometimes fandom gets it right because the relationship between these two is... A Lot. A LOT. I anticipate a lot of suffering on my part in the near future xD

I loved the evolution in the first half of the season, from Flint telling Silver that “in my head, you’re not welcome”, or Silver resenting that Flint’s words convinced HIM (HE’S the convincer!! It’s not supposed to happen to ME!! xDD) and rambling about how Flint is “able to ~conjure the reality he desires”, to Silver finally confessing about his part on the Urca gold robbery (which I’m at least 60% sure Flint suspected already tbh. That was not one of Silver’s best lies lbr) in order to force Flint to “account for ME” --but ofc still grabbing the nearest weapon as he confeses, just in case xDD. I am also incredibly delighted by the fact that the fandom calls that episode “shark date” asdñflkasjdf (*Flint and Silver barely manage to kill one shark*; Flint, challenging: again? *Silver grins*. Shark hunting = foreplay now, apparently).

I want it known that I end up ENRAGED every time they talk about their ~partnership lmfao. It comes off very intimate and gives me too many feelings xD. “When you and I talk with one voice, we can convince them of anything”; “your words opened that door [Flint convincing the Maroon Queen to spare their lives and join their fight]”; “you didn’t tell me the journey into the dark feels good”; “he doesn’t know how to say no to the both of us at the same time”; “I’m afraid I will be the end of you”. JUST STOP YOU ASSHOLES XDD

One of my favourite moments is when Silver convinces Flint to live. To go on, to talk to the Maroon Queen without a safeguard (that knife would’ve been his doom) and get her on their side (which Flint does with a super passionate speech about fighting England’s empire. ILH). Another is when Silver tells him he enjoyed killing Dufresne WITH HIS PROSTHETIC LEG OMFG (I personally think killing Dufresne was very valid of him lmfao), or Flint says Silver enjoyed punishing Dobbs (which in Silver fashion, worked perfectly for him because it made Dobbs MORE susceptible to him). Though obviously everything pales when compared to the scene where CAPTAIN FLINT COMES OUT TO LONG JOHN SILVER OVER A BONFIRE LMFAO. I loved that scene; it was so gentle. And then Silver made it about him and their relationship xDD (this show is not subtle). Flint’s apparent lack of concern about Silver replacing him is stressing me out though. I dread the series finale xD

Outside of Flint/Silver, Silver’s journey remains awe-inspiring. I just... love him. I love that he gave up his share of the Urca gold because he had to hold onto the crew, but that he is terrified of their bow to take care of him. His concern for his image in front of them was heartbreaking and hit waaaaay too close to home, too. And I wonder how he’s going to react to Billy’s King Long John Silver stratagem xD

BTW, I lowkey shipped him with Muldoon LOL. They should’ve had ~tender sex~~ (on screen, I headcanon it did happen off-screen, whatever) at some point (if only so there was one measly mlm sex scene in the show amidst all the rest. It’s troubling, to say the least, that there’s not a single one when it has a queer male lead tbh. And I get why they didn’t go that route with Flint outside of Thomas and can even see why they didn’t do it with Flint/Thomas even if I judge the hell out of them for it, but given how they go out of their way for the other options... yeah, I side eye them).

Jack

I LOVE HIM SO MUCH AND I WISH HE HAD MORE SCREENTIME, OKAY. Every time he opens his mouth the show gets just a little bit better, if you ask me xD. “If you’re going to behave like children, I will be your daddy” WHO SAYS THAT JACK XDD.

I loved him even more when he decided to deny Rogers & co the cache, Spanish invasion or not, to not give up and assure “his legacy”. And OF COURSE he could write his intentions in a way that only Anne would understand (Max reaaaally understimated him there). Their relationship remains the sweetest (weird adjective, maybe, but it’s true) part of the show, btw. I love that how Jack describes how hurt Anne would feel after knowing she might’ve unwittingly betrayed him. Or when he knew Anne giving up to easily meant she had a plan and he cheerfully told Rogers Anne would find a way to save him xD (the scene where he absolutely drags Rogers about his privilege --“but did I make up a lot of ground to catch you!”-- is perfect. And their reunion kiss was so, so cute.

Other highlights were when he threw away the key of the cache in front of Flint to secure it, or made his pitch to be his fellow captain in the fight. I also take a petty pleasure in the fact that Vane sacrificed himself when he went to his rescue LOL.

I like that he convinced Blackbeard to fight alongside them, but sweetie, you have NOTHING to prove to that asshole. His opinion is worthless (between his “strife is good” and Vane’s “comfort is for women” takes... ugh. They remind me of the exact discourse among leftism I hate okay xDD. In Vane’s case I at least get where he’s coming from and I even agree in part, but Blackbeard is even more boring).

Misc

-I love Billy’s more and more insidious antagonism towards Flint lmfao (yes, Flint is also one of my Forever Faves. This is compatible AND the kind of thing that would make me appreciate Billy more. I love irreverence, period). It starts with subtle ways of trying to poison Flint and Silver’s relationship (telling Silver Flint doesn’t see him as an equal, sending Silver to deliver Flint’s message instead of Flint himself, etc.). I laughed at him saying he’s all for Flint sacrificing himself for the crew since it’d be the “first selfless thing I’ve seen him do!” lol. Or that he “wants a good view when things catch up with Flint and the world makes sense again”. And ofc, creating the legend of Long John Silver. You just know he remembered Flint’s out of left field “I AM YOUR KING” and said “not on my fucking watch” xDD. And I love the irony of him being the one delivering black spots LOL.

-Did it really took that long for Anne and Flint to share some freaking words smh. Barely, but I’ll take it. I liked the moment where Jack references Max as “Anne’s lost love” and Flint does that Closeted Queer Observing A Queer Couple Look lol (he did the same when he was witness to Max and Eleanor’s fight. You need more queer friends, Flint :P).

-I liked Mrs. Hudson from the moment that she told Eleanor that the only difference she saw between her and other ladies is that their families have better lawyer --which meant Eleanor was the first one she could be rude towards xD--, and accused her of living of her father’s nepotism LOL. I hope she ends up in a good place and safe back with her kids.

-I can’t say I care much about Vane or his relationship with Eleanor, but his death and her hand on it were very well written IMO.

-I find Rogers so inherently unlikeable in every way LMFAO. And as hypocritical as it might sound, part of it is the extramarital affair ngl. I hate storylines where a man married to a more “conventional” woman is ~attracted to one he perceives as “stronger”, “fiercer”, and more worthy of himself (as if his opinion on the matter is worth shit) --only to eventually try and make the new woman more conventional once he “has” her. This one hasn’t gone all the way there but it has traces of that trope and I loathe it with all my heart.

-The only moment I managed to pay attention to Blackbeard was when he mentioned he had shrapnel advancing towards his heart, and for anyone who knows me a little, you know it’s because my brain linked that to Tony Stark lmfao. *Sighs* I just never like any version of Blackbeard, period. I find them so boring. He’s the opposite of Long John Silver that way, because I’ve loved every single version I’ve encountered so far.

-The way Spain is portrayed in this show is so... unusual. Especially for USA content in my experience. One day I’m going to have to do some more research and write about how Spain (and in particular Spanish violence -inter and intranational) is portrayed across the ocean.

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dfcfanfics · 5 years ago

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A little rambling about the Post-S3 meta

Am I the only one who's finding it very difficult to write a straight-up simple Love Square fic pairing right now?

In canon, after the events of Miracle Queen, things are still somewhat up in the air. Adrigami seems closer than ever before and Marinette seems to be finally warming up more to Luka, but nothing has set either in stone yet. Andre's ice cream knows all; self-love is the first order of the day, and our young'uns need to get their heads focused on their own priorities before devoting themselves utterly to each other. So nothing has been ruled out yet, including all four of the Square sides.

"And aren't you writing a story RIGHT NOW featuring oodles of gooey Adrienette goodness?" one might ask me. Why, yes, I am. Two, in fact, since It Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time... isn't done yet. But the complications are piling up.

Marinette's New Job

Issue number one is that Marinette just had the mother of all responsibilities dropped onto her slim shoulders. Welcome to Guardianville, Population: You. Multiple classmates and friends just had their identities exposed to Hawkmoth and Mayura. Master Fu and his guidance are out of the picture. While she has a vague idea of where the Book of Lore is, Fu's notes on it are gone, meaning that even if she could get Adrien to swipe it again, she couldn't read it. And Hawkmoth and the repaired Mayura (and isn't it awfully convenient that the fix to the Peacock was so simple that a fashion mogul could tweak it in ten minutes, but neither Nooroo nor Duusu were able to suggest what to do about it?) are certainly going to be eager to test this neophyte Guardian.

So... given all of that, should Marinette even think that she has the time or energy to have a personal life any more?

The Most Obvious Distractions

The clearest way to move forward is the obvious one: a fledgling Lukanette relationship and Adrien deciding to return Kagami's affection. Which would give each of them some much-needed practice in dating, kissing, hand-holding, working through good times and bad and all the trimmings... but they're not Square relationships.

And Adrien and Marinette could certainly use some minimal-pressure time to get to know each other better, become closer friends, talk to each other about their respective squeezes, and maybe even talk to each other about relationships that might, maybe, someday, possibly, if-lightning-strikes could happen someday? Which is a nice Adrienette setup... but it will take a lot of work to go from that to a standard Square romantic relationship.

The Kagami Paradox

Kagami Tsurugi evolved substantially during Season 3, to the point of an Adrigaminette OT3 beginning to form in many people's eyes. Is competition inevitable? Might the girls decide to "share" Adrien, attempting to both date him without either one claiming exclusivity? Could one or the other start having eyes for their "rival," turning this into a true triangle? Definitely fodder for interesting fanfics -- including one of my aforementioned ones in progress.

But Kagami's evolution from "ice queen" to "cardboard cutout rival" to "surprisingly sympathetic potential friend" has had consequences. I sat down recently, working on an Adrienette pairing, and found it really hard to justify to myself _how_ it could happen at present.

Because one of Marinette's core principles is justice. (Hence how that's what Hawkmoth attempted to twist in her when he finally made contact.) She knows that Kagami is sincere. She knows that Kagami succeeded at something that she failed at miserably -- being direct. She knows that Kagami deviated from her instincts and _did_ hesitate, giving both of them a chance to address the obvious -- Marinette's attraction to Adrien (AND Adrien's attraction to Marinette, though Marinette doesn't know that yet) -- before going in for the kiss.

So while romantic Adrigami isn't fully official yet... it's closer to it than romantic Adrienette has ever been. Even if Adrien suddenly loses the spots in his eyes and sees Marinette as he should, realizing the depths of his feelings for her, Adrien is too decent a person to simply... well... "change targets" abruptly. He knows what going hot-then-cold would do to Kagami. (He found that out the hard way in one of my stories, as well.) And Marinette is _far_ too decent to let him, if she's seen that Kagami and Adrien are good together.

Oh, she still wants him; that will likely never change. But once again... Marinette's capacity for self-sacrifice is exceptional. She would break her own arm to keep an innocent from suffering. If she believes that Kagami is whom he wants -- and she has reasons to believe that right now -- is she ready and willing to fight for him? Knowing all of the above? Knowing that he appears happy with what he has already?

Now... let's see if my babbling makes sense, or if my hamfisted insertion of a Keep Reading break works.

#miraculous #miraculous ladybug #fanfic #season 3 spoilers #post season 3 finale #old man rambles at cloud

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chouetteffraie · 5 years ago

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About BSD S3

Alternative title: Kenna talks about stuff literally nobody asked her to <3

So now that s3 is over and I’ve had a few days to breathe, I think I wanna say a thing or two about the season overall. Now, I’m not a meta writer, I’m not a person who can go in over analyzing everything perfectly- quite simply, I don’t have the brainpower to do that for too long. So rather than this being an analysis of everything and an objective evaluation of the quality of the season, this is largely an emotional response where I just talk about my experience with it. I’m not a critic- I don’t think I have that in my blood. I watch to enjoy, then reflect on what I did and didn’t enjoy, taking snippets and twisting them into something that might become deep and meaningful occasionally if it suits my writing. There’s nothing wrong with being a critical analyzer! We need you all in the fandom for all these fabulous metas and such <3 I just don’t think I’m the right gal for the job.

“So, Kenna, what is it you have to say?” Well, in the simplest of terms,

I really liked season 3.

“...wow. Groundbreaking.”

Now, let me explain myself. There are problems with season 3, as there are with most seasons, but I feel, overall, there were enough things that I liked about season 3 to keep the season in my favor.

I think my biggest criticism would have to be with pacing. The pacing in this season was so off for me and can be described as sporadic at best. From backstories to character introductions to character re-introductions, there was so much that went by in a blur and so much that seemed to go on forever. My biggest complaint probably has to do with (yup, you guessed it) the adaptation of Fifteen.

Let me explain.

First of all, I think the complaints that Bones used Soukoku as ship bait have a sturdy foundation, and I’m not here to dispute that. As a Dazatsu main myself, I’m not gonna complain about loving scenes with your favorite ship in them- I would absolutely die if next season (hopefully there is a next season!) we got a three-episode plot revolving around Dazai and Atsushi. However, I just don’t think it fit in nicely with the rest of the series.

After all, it’s kind of unfortunate that we got 3 episodes of Soukoku’s backstory, and yet our protagonist only got 1/3 of an episode.

Maybe Fifteen would’ve stood better as an OVA, or maybe if it could’ve been shaved down to two episodes. Maybe if BSD had been given three more episodes for genuine content, things would’ve been better. I don’t know how possible any of these things would’ve been, but they’re ideas. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed Fifteen overall. But I remember thinking that it seemed so out of place when I knew the chaotic arc that was coming.

I’m not an avid manga reader, but I know enough to be able to say that the BSD manga has a lot of content, a lot of nuance, and a lot of personality. The manga is the source material and what got people so invested in the story. If there wasn’t an interest in the manga, would there even have been an anime adaptation? What I’m saying here is that staying true to the manga is a good rule of thumb, and while of course you won’t be able to translate everything into animation, it’s probably best to try and be as similar as possible with a story like BSD.

Manga readers ate up the story of BSD without being interrupted by Fifteen, because as far as I’m aware, Fifteen is fairly new? (Didn’t it come out around Dead Apple time? I’m not entirely sure, but it might’ve been.) And, unlike The Dark Era, the events of Fifteen didn’t have nearly as much of an impact on Dazai (that would later impact our protagonist- after all, how could he mentor Atsu if he never quit the mafia?). Fifteen was more Chuuya-centric in terms of future impact, which brings me to my next point.

Chuuya is a side character. I love him, honestly, and think he’s a great character, but he isn’t our main focus. This seems to be a problem that Bones has a lot: “forgetting” who their protagonist is.

I can defend The Dark Era because of how it explains Dazai’s connection with the mafia and why he switched sides. Dazai is easier to get away with focusing on because he is a primary character, although not the protagonist, and probably has some of the most influence on our true protagonist out of all the characters we know. Chuuya....doesn’t. At least, not yet. His backstory, while interesting and fun to see, is inconsequential to where our protagonist is at right now in the story. In fact, I’m not even sure if Atsushi and Chuuya have interacted in the anime aside from that standoff in the hospital hallway- and even then, that was an illusion. While Fifteen gave us a glimpse to Dazai’s life in the mafia, it didn’t give us anything we didn’t already know other than how he met Chuuya, and how he met Chuuya didn’t impact his relationship much with him or explain why he hates him so much- they just kind of always did. (what would you call that? Anti-chemistry?) That means it also didn’t really impact the major decisions Dazai had to make to get to where he was when he found Atsushi- which is when he began to matter, because that’s when he started influencing the world of the protagonist who is supposed to drive our experience through the narrative.

Please note, this isn’t a hate on Soukoku, and if you like Fifteen, or thought it fit, or just liked it because it gave you such good SKK content, I’m happy for you! This is just a personal grudge I have with the series.

This is why Fifteen would’ve stood better as an OVA- it doesn’t have anything to do with the protagonist. A core purpose of the protagonist in any story is to make the narrative relevant. The events of a story are connected because they pertain to the protagonist. Let’s take the Hunger Games as an example. The events of the actual game don’t relate at all to the death of the Everdeen father, or the fact that Primrose Everdeen was selected, or the fact that a certain Everdeen was given a pin of a mockingjay. These are all important because they relate to our protagonist, Katniss. Her father dying made her have to step up inthe household and feel responsible for her mother and sister’s safety, which helped prompt her to volunteer as tribute. Her pin later became the symbol of a revolution, but only because it was hers. If our protagonist had been Peeta, Katniss’ backstory with her father and mother and sister wouldn’t matter to us because it wouldn’t be our protagonist’s concern.

So, why, then, did we get 3 episodes of Chuuya’s backstory and 10 minutes (not even) of Atsushi’s? Hell, we got more of Kyouka’s backstory than Atsushi’s, or at least a better buildup to it. We even got more content of Randou, a character they completely screwed up (and also didn’t really affect Atsushi). I know events are tied together and connected, but when trying to fit an arc like Cannibalism into 12 30-minute episodes, you’ve gotta decide what’s important and what’s not.

Bones, I feel, didn’t choose what was most important.

“Alright, Kenna, all you’ve done is complain. I thought you said you liked season 3?”

That’s the thing, though- I did.

I like the time they spent with Lucy and Kyouka’s hostile interactions. I liked the background they gave to certain characters (Gin, Kyouka, Atsu [even though we got so little], Katai [-ish]) plus we got more Fyodor content. Fitzgerald’s episode was really good, too! I’m a newly-fledged, softcore Fitzgerald stan. I think the last three episodes were pretty well put together, and I ADORED the final scene (no, not just for the Dazatsu content- although thank you for the food, Bones uwu).

Now, these are all little things, yeah, but I feel together they make up enough for Fifteen on my end. See, I’ve always thought BSD had pacing issues from season 1. It’s no news to me that they had trouble squeezing all the content in the episodes they were given, to be honest. If I separate Fifteen from the rest of the season, to me, it’s cardinal sin is pacing, and only pacing. The issues of Fifteen are plentiful, but it doesn’t seem fair to me (and for me, it’s more than ok if you disagree) to pile that all on to the rest of the episodes. Yeah, it was disappointing that we didn’t get as much Fyodor time, or Atsu backstory time, or whatever else we wanted. But to me, that’s okay. We still got the point of what’s going on- the city is in trouble, the worst is yet to come, and Atsushi and Akutagawa have a deal now.

Bungo Stray Dogs has always appealed to me because of its characters more than its story, I connected with the people, not the narrative. I still thoroughly enjoy the story, but I’m more interested in how the characters interact in general and how they operate as a team or in stressful situations. For that purpose, Bones provided. At least they did in my book, even if we didn’t get enough of who we wanted to see.

I have hope for next season, if there is one. I have hope that Bones will right their wrongs. I have hopes that they’ll fix their pacing a little bit. The manga has so much content to portray, though, that a certain pacing issue can be forgiven (like the ones I saw in s1 and s2.) And, because I love the characters, I’m willing to hold out for another potential season and see if they can fix it.

If you’re upset, you have every reason to be. But, though I have my complaints, I can’t say I’m too terribly disappointed. Maybe a little, but I still look forward to future content. I hope we get it soon, if at all.

(And, believe it or not, this is the shortened version of all my thoughts. Haha!)

#bsd #bungo stray dogs #bungou stray dogs #anime reaction #attempted meta #bsd spoilers #bsd season 3 spoilers #bsd season 3 #long post #orig

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shadowsong26x · 5 years ago

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Random SW meta because Why Not

So, I’ve been thinking some about Thrawn lately (because a) I do that off and on, and b) commentary about Alliances has been on my dash again lately). And I’ve been thinking about where he works really well for me, and where he doesn’t quite hit the mark; and where a lot of the commentary from people who are not super fond of the character is coming from (i.e., the fact that he is The Smartest In The Room and the need to demonstrate that has a tendency to push back on other characters he interacts with in a bad way/sometimes makes them look less clever/competent than they actually are; I’ve particularly seen this in some of the discussions about Alliances, and it’s not entirely wrong.)

The rest is now going behind a cut because apparently I am incapable of shutting up XD

Anyway. Quick note before we get started. While Thrawn isn’t actually my favorite/a top-tier character for me, I do like him quite a bit, and most of the works he’s in. (I also like Timothy Zahn’s writing style, for the most part, though I know it isn’t for everyone.) Outbound Flight, for example, remains one of my favorite Legends novels. Also, I do like Alliances. Not as much as the first canon Thrawn novel or the stuff in Legends, but more than a few people I’ve seen comment on it. That being said, I don’t like the way Zahn writes Vader, for one thing, and I can understand where people who don’t like the way he writes Anakin and Padme are coming from, though I don’t 100% agree. I also, overall, like Thrawn in the novels a lot better than I liked him in Rebels, particularly S4.

And I think a lot of it comes down to this:

Thrawn is, essentially, a Sherlock Holmes expy*.

And, more than Moriarty or his other nemeses/notable antagonists, and probably at least as much as being Clever and solving mysteries, a lot of what defines Sherlock Holmes, and what makes stories about him good and compelling, is his relationship with Watson**.

So, with that in mind…

In each of the novels except Alliances, Thrawn has a pretty solid Watson at his side. In the original Thrawn trilogy, of course, he has Pellaeon. In Outbound Flight, he has Car’das. In Thrawn, he has Eli. And it’s interesting, because while all three of these men fill that Watson role, and have a sort of give-and-take with Thrawn that’s really fun to read about, it plays out differently with each of them, based on the relative positions they hold, and their personalities.

Eli tends to come across more or less as Done with Thrawn’s bullshit like 99% of the time, as much as he respects Thrawn’s brilliance – but, then again, while Thrawn does outrank him, they come up together/start their careers in the Imperial military together, and have parallel learning curves.

Car’das is a combination of wary and fascinated, because he’s stranded in Chiss territory and Thrawn’s prisoner, so a lot of his dynamic with Thrawn is negotiations to make the best of the situation for himself and his friends. Meanwhile, Thrawn has next to no experience with the main (from a narrative perspective) part of the galaxy, and Car’das in particular is his window into that world and has a way of thinking that intrigues him. The two of them also have a lot to learn from each other, in terms of culture, history, language, etc.

Bearing in mind that I haven’t reread his books in a while – Pellaeon, interestingly enough, despite being pretty established in his career, is in some ways even more conscious of the rank and status in play than Car’das, at least at the start. Because he is directly under Thrawn’s authority, being the captain/commander of his flagship. To the best of my recollection, he starts off serving mostly as a sounding board for Thrawn, but over time starts to bounce back, and the two of them hit their stride I think probably somewhere in the second book? And there’s a lot of cool things about their dynamic, even posthumously (on Thrawn’s end) in the Hand of Thrawn duology ten years later, where the possibility of Thrawn being back and undoing everything Pellaeon is currently trying to accomplish is something he has to thread his way through very carefully.

Pellaeon also fits the audience-surrogate/narrator part of being Watson (which becomes kind of the focus in some adaptations of the source material, to the point where a badly-handled Watson loses most of his own characteristics/cleverness) better than most of the others. And, true, all of the Watsons fill the role in this respect, since Zahn didn’t write Thrawn’s point of view at all in Legends, but Pellaeon hits those particular notes the best, IMO. I remember reading the annotated Heir to the Empire and Zahn commenting that he needed a human viewpoint character because Thrawn is, well, alien, and that’s in some cases a better way to get alien worldviews/psychology across than trying to write it directly***.

Interestingly enough, Thrawn kind of serves as an origin story for all three book!Watsons, too? Which is probably part of what makes them so compelling, that while this relationship is a hugely impactful/defining one for them, it’s not the sum total of their character or story. For example, as much as I like Thrawn and Pellaeon’s dynamic with each other, I’m almost more attached to Pellaeon once he comes into his own and builds on what he had and then lost with Thrawn. (Full disclosure – while I generally prefer the broad-strokes post-ROTJ worldbuilding in Legends to the same in canon****, I’m not super fond of a lot of the specific Legends plot points from that era; Pellaeon’s arc is one of the exceptions.) And Car’das had his own journey, building a smuggling empire and doing some light espionage on the side as the Empire rose around him. Eli, of course, we have yet to see what he’s done with himself after separating from Thrawn, but I expect he’ll have a cool story of his own, too.

…anyway, the point of all that is, giving Thrawn someone to bounce off of in the right ways, with whom he can hit that Holmes-and-Watson dynamic in one way or another, makes him work a lot better, at least for me personally, than Thrawn more or less on his own, and that works pretty well in the Legends novels and the first canon Thrawn novel.

Which brings me to Alliances and Rebels.

Alliances is kind of an interesting case to me, because there’s sort of the start to that kind of push-and-pull Thrawn gets with his Watsons when he’s interacting with Anakin, which is probably why those sections worked the best for me (despite some issues with Anakin’s POV, although I didn’t find them as jarring as other readers have). But, of course, it’s never actually going to develop properly into that kind of relationship, primarily because Anakin has already imprinted on other people/is already spoken for, so to speak, and so he and Thrawn are never going to mesh. Which does make for an interesting AU/story of what might have happened if Thrawn, or the Chiss in general, had been the ones to find Anakin/recognize his potential and take him in, as opposed to Qui-Gon and Palpatine. Buuuuuuuut that’s a separate conversation, and an AU I don’t need/will not be writing, lol.

And Vader, of course, is never ever going to fill that niche for Thrawn; which probably contributes to why that half of the novel fell a little flat for me, along with really not liking the way Zahn wrote Vader.

And then there’s Rebels.

S4 Thrawn doesn’t work as well for me overall, because there’s no one in his orbit that even approaches that dynamic. Pryce might try, but he doesn’t seem to think much of her/like and respect her in the way he does with his various Watsons. His relationship with Rukh has its own appeal, but it’s not the same thing. I mean, don’t get me wrong, S4!Thrawn is still clever and competent and badass and all of that and I do enjoy his bits, but he doesn’t draw me in/I’m not invested in him in the same way.

S3, on the other hand…

Much like the flashback half of Alliances, there’s the foundations of this kind of dynamic between Thrawn and Kallus. To the point where, if the timeline had been fudged just a little bit; if Kallus hadn’t already defected when Pryce requested the Seventh Fleet (and Eli was already gone), I actually think they probably would have headed in that direction. I think the specific interplay would’ve fallen somewhere between how Pellaeon deals with Thrawn and how Eli does, in part because of jurisdiction/whatever (which, I mean, I’m making up but Kallus is ISB, not Navy/regular military; so while he is under Thrawn’s authority, it’s not really in the same way as Pellaeon is, being the captain/commander of Thrawn’s flagship).

Which is not in any way to say that I would’ve preferred it if canon had gone in that direction, because I wouldn’t – in all honesty, Kallus’s canon arc hits, like, all of my narrative buttons, and I’m not sure it could’ve been more up my alley if it had been specifically tailor-made to appeal to me, personally. But having that potential Holmes-and-Watson dynamic underpinning Thrawn and Kallus’s interactions throughout S3 definitely adds something to Thrawn (at least for me), and probably to Kallus as well.

Long story short, Thrawn is a character who works best when he’s matched by the right deuteragonist/foil, and the places where he doesn’t work as well, at least for me, personally, support that.

(Also, I’m looking forward to Treason to see what’s become of Eli and hopefully get some more Chiss worldbuilding! Because the snippets we got in Alliances are pretty cool and one of the things I really liked about that novel. Also Pellaeon is officially a canon character as of the Rebels series finale so I’m hoping we get to see more of him, too! Either in Treason or elsewhere.)

*I don’t take credit for this reading/interpretation, btw! I think it was first pointed out to me by my roommate, though I may be misremembering. Either way, it seems accurate/makes a whole lot of sense to me, so I’m sticking with it!

**This holds true whether the relationship is romantic or platonic. This is in no way about shipping Thrawn with any of his Watsons (though, for the record, I do ship him with Pellaeon).

***This is another thing I like about the Thrawn books in general, and some of the worldbuilding Alliances gave us – Star Wars doesn’t do a whole lot with that side of things (i.e., with making aliens and the way they think/approach problems really feel alien, barring species like the Geonosians which are a little too removed, and make it hard to hit that sci-fi/fantasy sweet spot of being just the right combination of Similar But Otherworldly, if that makes sense? …tangentially related, I really should revisit that idea of an atevi Jedi at some point…but I digress). Anyway, I think it’s nice when this kind of thing is put into the universe. And since the Chiss Ascendancy and the Empire/Republic don’t have a lot of contact, it can be handled a lot better/more credibly with them, given the way the galaxy is built. So I appreciate that Zahn does that.

****I.e., the way the New Republic is set up; how the remainder of the Galactic Civil War played out over the next few years; a few other things; to the point where anything I write in that timeframe will absolutely be a blended canon, even beyond what I already do as a matter of course, integrating characters/specific locations and situations I like from the canon!ST with something like the broader Legends backdrop I prefer – with allowances, of course, for how AU I’ve gotten on the way to ROTJ. I mean, to be fair, once we get past roughly the Hand of Thrawn duology, I start getting a bit cranky at the worldbuilding again, but that’s when the plot points I dislike start taking over. But for those fifteen/twenty years, for that foundation, I prefer the Legends setup to the canon one. …and any more on the subject will be a long digression on my feelings about the ST in general which are out of place for this essay. Short version: I really like almost all of the new characters, but I’m not super invested in the story that’s being told with them.

#meta #star wars #star wars meta #thrawn #shadowsong rambles at great length

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