#I defend fictional characters' incest

[scentedluminarysoul]

Oh no, the girlies are getting their panties in a twist over fictional incest again...

[cherrymoonvol6]

.

[thistlearts]

It's so funny how some puriteens tell people to "go seek therapy" if they are proship, and have taboo kinks or defend people who have taboo kinks. Because in reality of professional therapists (not in antis fantasies abut how therapy actually works) this would look like this: Proshipper goes to therapy. Therapist: How can I help you? What bothers you? Proshipper: Someone on the internet said that I need to go to therapy because I ship age gaps and incest. And sometimes the characters I ship are abusive towards each other or others. They can be even serial killers or monsters. Therapist: Does that make you feel like you want to do all those things IRL? Proshipper: No, of course not. Therapist: Is anyone doing this to you IRL? Proshipper: Not as far as I am aware. Therapist: That's totally fine to have taboo erotic fantasies. But I would suggest we talk about your boundaries and why you allow strangers on the internet to give you unsolicited advice on your mental health over personal things such as kinks and erotic fantasies which harm no one and don't involve anyone but you and fictional characters. N.B. This is of course a joking oversimplification of how therapy works, but if someone thinks a professional therapist would essentially try to shame their client for sexual fantasies, they are delusional. P.S. I was told in the comments that the word "delusional" is often used as a mean to insult people with mental problems. I apologize that it might come off as such. English is not my native language and as far as we use this word's equivalent in my tongue is in the meaning "to be mistaken about something, since you only have an illusion of a fact not an actual real experience with it". It has nothing to do with mental health, but only with someone believing a perceived reality that is not correlating with facts due to lack of knowledge/experience.

[ph4ntomcat]

“Comships and darkships are bad because you can’t ship (insert dynamic)!”

1: it’s fictional. The characters being shipped have NO feelings/emotions, and they literally don’t care, because they DONT EXIST.

2: fictional characters don’t exist, but pro/com/darkshippers DO. They DO EXIST and DO have feelings. I don’t see why you want to defend fictional characters but don’t care about actual living people, just like the people you see every single day, living people like you

3: com/darkshippers can be people with trauma, and it can be used to cope in different ways. A common way is because those people feel comfortable feeling that fictional characters they like have been through what they’ve been through, it isn’t exactly “reliving/reminding yourself of your trauma,” for some it’s a way to feel like they aren’t alone. Let them cope how they want, it’s not unhealthy. A coping mechanism not working for you ≠ unhealthy. Don’t hate people for liking something you don’t.

4: some darkshippers ship fictional characters so they don’t act on those things irl. Some darkshippers do have urges to do things “relating to the things they ship.” Aka illegal things. They are keeping it strictly in fiction because it not only helps THEM but helps YOU as well. If you think incest, pedophilia, etc is worse in fiction than irl, you are absolutely wrong. Those things are not ok irl; that’s why they keep it in fiction. Because FICTION ISNT REAL.

5: yes, you CAN ship that kind of stuff. Doesn’t matter if it’s a coping mechanism or not, some people are just interested in it. Haven’t you ever heard of being nice and having fun?

Please get a life outside of harassing people online who did nothing wrong

[proshippers-against-censorship]

I see people call the creator of Fluffle Puff a pedo. And I am not sure? They are saying they are literally a pedo. They preyed on children and had pictures. But... two many times it has just been draws of fictional characters.

It didn't help this was on a post of someone defending their ship saying it wasn't abusive because it was an AU and people agreeing as long as it was Adult/Minor or Incest it was okay.

I want to believe they aren't lying about something serious, but everything is making me lean to its probably just fiction again. I feel bad thinking this way because what if. What if it is real.

I know nothing about both the media and the creator tbh.

Input from the lads?

[damnfandomproblems]

Response to 5634: Mkay, do not start complaining about something you like being censored because you’re acting indifferent to someone being pro-censorship bully arguing with an anti-censorship and anti-harassment person.

The reason why these arguments are a big deal (and you can just ignore the arguments by blocking if it bugs you that much) is because the arguments antis make is similar to that of puritans, old ignorant people trying to blame video games for school shootings and wanting games like GTA censored or banned, and people that were book burners as one of the commenters pointed out.

Antis actively go into spaces they KNOW they hate with a passion and make callout posts that were designed to harass people, Antis legit made blogs PURELY just to bully someone over dead dove fanfiction, and antis are the most bigoted people, when someone who writes content they don’t like just so happens to be a minority, it quickly is no longer about fictional content they hate, now they gotta be racist towards a POC writer (I’ve seen this happen to a South Asian woman).

Antis have also been the reason why some artists get ran off the internet. I’ve seen it happen to a non-binary artist who was harassed off the internet a pseudo-incest ship. Their Twitter, Tumblr blog, and anything else they had were all wiped from existence, and I will never forgive the people that did that to them.

Antis are also the most insensitive people and insult real life rape victims or people that have had CSEM made of them. Jenna Ortega had CSEM made of her by sick freaks that made explicit AI generated photos of her as a kid. Then idiots made it about weird gross anime porn fetishes and that is how it leads to creeps online making CSEM or prey on real life kids. Read the GODDAMN room.

Speaking of CSEM, antis have defended Netflix’s Cuties, which is actual CSEM in comparison to drawings and fanfiction with underage characters.

Another anti who was ironically an artist also responded to a CSA survivor saying, “do not equate my pain and suffering to anime drawings” in the most insulting way imaginable with an eye roll gif.

There has also been cases where antis were caught being a creep towards children. One minute an anti is calling people “pedophiles” over fiction, next thing you know, they got caught sexting a minor, they have actual convictions and are on the sex offender registry, they accepted minors into their 18+ space, or literally anything else that involves endangering minors. Which is why I’m bracing myself for a similar incident in the JJK fandom with all the puritans running around invading tags like an obnoxious person.

I could go on, but this is already long enough as it is. Now, the next time you wanna play that Peter Griffin clip on full blast saying, “who the hell cares,” think about everything I said here.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[xx-lun4c3st-xx]

my proship journey was kinda weird

like when i said i was new to it. thats kinda a lie-? im

new to the community

but the act of being a proshipper? no-

when i was in middle school i purposely made a non incest ship into incest (cant say which one in fear of ppl ik finding this :(( )

i also defended agegap proshippers from a raid that happened on an amino because i genuinely saw nothing wrong with it, it was practically canon!!

then i grew a bit older and was told it was wrong and became an anti tho i still had these inklings of “problematic ships” and was utterly ashamed of myself and thought i was broken and wrong

i still feel that way but im trying to ignore it cuz this community seems so sweet and proshipping makes me happy, lets me be free from worrying about fictional character relationships and if theyre “correct”

[twstcallouts]

Look I’m french. When I was a kid my school made me read Greek mythology books with graphic rape and incest galore and I turned out fine ?? It’s fake, no one is being harmed and if people can simp for fictional murderers they can as well do so for weird sex kink (expecially since anime boys don’t look like children at all, you could tell me they are actually 30 and I’ll believe it easily). Also if you’re in a fandom built around a work made by someone whose into problematic stuff I feel it’s very hypocritical to criticize those people.

Finally I think callouts post are always evil, probably because I hang out with enough queer people who go false accusations of serious crimes because of petty shit and were harassed into nervous breakdowns and depression 🤷‍♂️

degenerate, filthy and disgusting used in the context you do is always a giant red flag btw

(Also my cat is the cutest ever and I will gladly die for her)

Look, my main take away from this is that you think everyone has the same experiences as you and that you feel everyone should cater to your thoughts and feelings. I'm not here to do that, not to you or anyone. Plain and simple.

I want you to THINK about this. Don't skim it, don't read it and think immediately of what to say back, just take your time to digest this.

Do the creators you follow and defend TRULY care about whether you defend them or not? Are they sending you out to fight for them? What do you GAIN, from defending them? Does the content you consume help you in becoming the best version you can be, or does it provide you with a fraction of a moments' satisfaction? Do you surround yourself with people that care about your actual happiness and uplift you when you need it, but give you advice and sometimes even call YOU out on behavior that is harmful to you or others? The call may be coming from inside the house.

My call outs don't discriminate, they target anyone who fits into the criteria.

"Also if you’re in a fandom built around a work made by someone whose into problematic stuff I feel it’s very hypocritical to criticize those people."

I'll be frank with you, since you blog says 21+. Do you know the innermost thoughts and feelings of Yana Toboso? Are you sure she doesn't include some content because a higher up told her to, or because some people are willing to pay more for said content? I don't know the answers to these questions, and I sincerely do not care to know. You may not know the meaning of hypocrisy. Google defines it as :"the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense". My behavior is not hypocritical, since I don't cheer on Toboso's past actions, or even present ones. I play Twisted Wonderland because it's cute and entertaining, not because I want to make "ships" or "headcanons" on characters. Whatever the reason people play for, is not my business, only when they cross a line is when I get involved.

You keep making assumptions about me, and I don't think it is fair. I don't make any about you, I only go by what you tell me. Please try to do the same. Thank you.

[still-fatemeh]

I'm sorry...

I'm sorry, WHAT????

What the fuck!?!?

What the fuck is this?!??

I don't even know what most of this things mean! I can't even bring myself to imagine... I can't for the life of me, imagine atsushi of all people in that... scenarios (used very lightly)

Like the whole first chapter is just incest and way worse stuff. And the worst thing is that atsushi already has a brother/sister relationship with one of the characters... (Kyouka isn't in the included characters, thanks god)

It's CP and it's disgusting.

Atsushi doesn't deserve this, he's done nothing wrong to deserve this. Why is it still out there? I'm well aware that he is a fictional character but damn. I can't help but feel pity for him. There are some things these characters weren't meant to do or embody and this is exactly one of them.

I'm concerned, please defend atsushi's rights.

He deserves nothing but wholesomeness and happiness from this fandom and we need to give it to him.

[autistichalsin]

Okay, I’ve been a bit scared because I’ve been observing from the sidelines, but I do want you to know this isn’t a hateful or troll ask, I’m genuinely asking for clarification.

In my experience, “pro-shipping” has always meant ‘problematic shipping’, and all of the people I’ve talked to about this have said the same thing.

Am I the one who’s misconstrued? I really don’t get it.

Being called “pro-harassment” or “pro-censorship” is hurtful and confusing as all hell.

I don’t harass people for what they create. I don’t care to do that. I block and move on, and warn people if I know they could be upset by the content.

But I also don’t understand how certain things are justified.

I am personally not bothered by much, but I have watched friends and acquaintances go through visceral traumatic reactions because people have decided to air out their coping by sharing it with the public. (I.E, people who write romantic incestual fics, etc)

I don’t give a shit what people write. I really don’t. But it feels harmful to use the excuse of coping when you, in turn, could be hurting dozens of others.

Like I said, I genuinely am not trying to be hateful here. I’m confused, and still distraught that all of this is happening. I don’t think anyone deserves to be harassed. I just also don’t get the logic here.

Pro-shipping never once meant problematic shipping. It meant opposite of "anti" because antis would come and invade the tags and asks, calling them all kinds of names if they found their ships distasteful.

Sorry that being indirectly accused of supporting harassment hurt your feelings. Imagine how I felt, being DIRECTLY accused of supporting rape in real life because of my taste in fiction. You are throwing in your lot with people who can't distinguish fantasy and reality.

I don't like incest fics either, anon. They are triggering for me. So you know what I do? I don't read fics tagged as incest. For that reason, I have never been triggered by an incest fic. I suppose I would be if I read an incest fic that wasn't tagged as much, but you will never find a single pro-shipper who defends posting such content without a tag. You are responsible for your own experience online; it is your job to curate the content.

If it was just seeing that the fic exists that triggered the response, then I'm sorry to say they're still in the wrong. As a survivor, learning that triggers exist and how to navigate those triggers is on you. We are responsible for how we deal with our trauma. Your friends didn't deserve their traumas, and they deserve kindness and support, but requesting that people never be allowed to write distasteful fiction so that they don't have to be upset by the idea that someone somewhere shipped incest is not reasonable. Their feelings are valid; it's totally reasonable to be triggered, to strictly curate your online experience. It's reasonable to block everyone who ships the upsetting incest ships, to put an "incest shippers DNI" on your page, all of it. It's not reasonable to call them supporters of IRL incest or to accuse them of causing your trauma. It isn't hard at all on AO3 or Tumblr; they even give you the option to blacklist/filter out certain tags so you can avoid it without blocking users. There's easily half a dozen safeguards that already exist that are a lot less radical, a lot less likely to be weaponized against queer users, and a lot easier to enforce than trying to remove them.

Me writing fics, such as a character using kink to cope, can only harm a user who doesn't curate their feed (and who reads fics they know will trigger them, which I can only assume would then be a purposeful form of self-harm). Denying other survivors their coping mechanism, though, IS a direct form of harm. Stigmatizing recovery by saying that survivors are in any way akin to abusers for creating fiction is a direct form of harm.

It sounds to me like you've absorbed some very harmful and very narrow ideas of what recovery should and should not look like, and what is and isn't a good/valid survivor. You might want to reflect on why you're turning your attention to policing what survivors do to cope so much.

[opinated-user]

LO, fourteen year olds and incest

for a while now i have noticed a trend of LO to concentrate on the age 14 specifically, even more specifically about incest, and i couldn't understand why. let's count the ways in which 14 as an age appears in LO's works. 14 was the age of Elethyn Crane in the Scar universe. she has a crush on Ascentia (now called ass-ana), her adoptive older sister, and this is completely normalized by everyone in the family.

14 was the age of sexual consent in Equestria in the fic stockholm. the cutie mark crusaders, all of them with explicit sex scenes between each other, are all 14. one of them seduces a pedophile (rainbow dash) and later has sex with her older sister. this same character admits that she found out she was a lesbian by watching her older sister naked. 14 was the age of the girl in that disgusting video in which LO defends incest, pretending it was in response to a concerned father that never existed.(link to archived video so anyone can confirm) 14 was the age in which CLO was mentally/metaphorically raped by G in pokemadhouse. they were both raised together, almost like sisters.

so what, someone might ask. 14 is still underage, it's a child anyway, so why does it matter that 14 as an age appears so frequently? what i didn't realize until Courtney started talking is that LO was 15 when Courtney finally managed to stop the molestation at her hands. meaning that Courtney was 14 when LO's absurd fantasy of being "in love" with her sister ended.

LO has been romanticizing the 14 year old version of Courtney for years throughout many fictional characters, across multiple fandoms. all this time, she has been writing nothing else but cope fics where her "love" is normalized, accepted or even reciprocated. fics that she has continued to write even to this day. the concerned father in that video was supposed to be her own father reacting to the news of their "relationship." LO's advice of "don't do anything" is what LO would wish her father did. it all finally makes sense now and i hate it so much.

[spinnyspinnyspinnnn]

Since there's an off chance all us Americans getting nuked in November, there's one last thing(not really) I feel I have to share with you:

I do not understand why antis harass proshippers. Really, I don't. I don't see a real point in the matter. And here's some potential arguments I see, and why I think it might be wrong, aside than the morals of harassment.

"But they're all kid diddlers-"

Most of them are kids, from what I've seen, and the ones that are actual kid diddlers who intend to do the diddling are typically shunned from their community.

"But it's a harmful coping mechanism-"

What if they don't have anything else, huh? I'm not trying to really defend the shit but I'd rather see proshippers post incest and age-gap stuff than watch someone else fall to much more graphic coping mechanisms that might end up killing them. And even if it isn't a coping mechanism, why is that our business?

"But proshipping is bad-"

Bad? Maybe. But antis have also watered down their terms. From the research I've done, it's being anti-harassment. Not caring what people do in fiction. It's a stance a lot of us could and should take on, because being against harassment is a good thing. If you bring that shit into real life, then yeah you're a piece of garbage, but I don't see the point in bringing it into fandom spaces and being shunned for it. People have mentioned how proship used to be a default, that us antis are basically the fandom version of purity culture. I don't get it.

"But it's so graphic and-"

That's plain hypocritical and you know it. So many of us antis enjoy dark and graphic media. Hell, I'm writing something with multiple graphic, violent scenes and awful relationships that, since I'm nearing 18 the more I write this project, may end up mildly n$fw at some points if the shoe fits. If we can indulge in our yanderes, in our torture scenes, in our "toxic yuri/yaoi," and all those other things.. the stuff they do seems not that much different, other than maybe the sexual points. Then again, so many books and movies exist that are graphic and s3xual that antis enjoy that it really doesn't matter. If we can indulge in that fucked up stuff, why can't they indulge in their fucked up stuff? What's the real difference here?

But {insert obvious rage bait-}"

Clearly, you've fallen for stuff you shouldn't. You don't need to "fix their headcanons," that's their whole point. People who post shit like that just want attention. And attention you constantly give them. Same with the art posts. You don't need to fix the bait, dude. It's nothing to get angry over, there's bigger fish in the sea.

From what I've seen, most actual proshippers just want to be left the fuck alone, to stop being harassed by us. If we're the "good guys" in fictional, fandom spaces, why do we go out and tell those people to die, to get assaulted, to get abused and harmed, and how to do awful things to themselves, all because of their stance on fandom spaces and the things they may or may not even ship? Are we really being "good" there? Or are we just under the guise that we're good by protecting those characters while we completely disregard how disgusting and horrendous it actually is to say things to real people and real kids?

By the original stance that proshipping and profiction meant(anti-harassment, leave people be, etc.), what proshippers actually claim to be nowadays, most of us could, in a technical sense, be considered proship/profic. That includes myself. If we use the definition most antis who harass proshippers use, that being those who enjoy problematic ships and condone these things IRL, that wouldn't fit. And only one of those things, the problematic ships part, could be considered under the profiction stance as either comship(complicated ship, from what I can tell), or darkship(which is the really messed up shipping tropes that you'd see headcanons of in rage bait posts, but actually taken seriously and thought of instead of being used for attention).

If you read to the end, this is just food for thought. Feel free to block me if you don't agree with any of this. Or, if you have something I'm missing, feel free to engage in some casual discussion with me. I'm not asking to fight or stir up drama, this is just how I feel about things and if you have a different opinion you want to talk about, go ahead and mention it.

Be civil, people and creatures alike. I'll be using tags from both communities to allow a healthy debate on this post. You'll be blocked if you start fighting people or myself.

[hyunnieshannie]

PSA {im boutta be controversial i think?}

warning: Talk of incest. and work of fiction involving minors.

we don't kink shame in this house. we really don't. unless that kink is geared towards MINORS & Incest

I don't do this often. I really don't.

So welcome to todays episode of 'Mini's Mini Rants' we shall be discussing the topic of more 'taboo' themes in writing. SPECIFICALLY Underage work, and Incest.

ON THE TOPIC OF INCEST:

YES, I understand there's 'preference' to all writing and if its not for me then I can just block and move on. but I can't get behind it and I WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER Write this.

HONESTLY This ate at me because I came across an account that writes incest for the skz boys and I couldn't. nope nope nope. this is not for me. nor kitty.

we will NOT write this if you request it. I know we write some pretty heavy stuff sometimes. MCD (Major character death) Knife play, etcetera. but we will NEVER EVER write this so PLEASE do not ask this of us. not that anyone has requested it but I just really felt the need to remind people of the lines kitty and I have.

ON THE TOPIC OF WORK INCLUDING MINORS.

WE WILL NEVER SUPPORT THIS.

WE WILL NEVER WRITE THIS.

BLOCK US IF YOU EVEN READ THIS KIND OF STUFF.

I DO NOT give a fuck if its "just a work of fiction" A LOT of us write for ourselves so don't hide behind it being just a story its fucking sick.

for the people defending a fic I witnessed of CHILD skz member (10) and ADULT skz member. (father x son) please for the LOVE OF GOD BLOCK ME.

IN CONCLUSION:

We don't support these topics. we do not want to SEE these topics and we would appreciate being blocked if you do enjoy and do write these topics. I've already blocked the one incest account but IDK who else out there writes it and honestly I do not want to know.

The reason i said earlier this may be controversial is because I saw some people HEAVILY defending these topics "its fanfiction for a reason" "its not real".

so maybe someone here may see this and disagree. pls. pls. just block us.

thank you

-Mini

[neechees]

about the whole preoccupation w incest thing amongst white people on the internet i haven't really noticed it? i am white and find it intriguing (i was incestually abused as a child and so i find it interesting how it develops in families, how people respond to it, etc (it's kind of been part of my healing process)) but i don't really see anyone being obsessed w it? maybe pointing out themes of it in media but that's kinda it? some of my mutuals, idk if they're white, but they have also been abused the same way i have and find discussing it or finding media with incest in it to be a part of exposure therapy/dealing with the trauma. id love to hear your thoughts on it :)

I've talked about this a few times in the past, but I'm posting again to make my views & boundaries known that 1. Dni if you're a "pr0shipper" & enjoy shipping incest, I do not want you here, 2. Fiction does not exist in a vacuum. Im going with the assumption that anon is not a proshitter & they're asking this in good faith. Just putting a readmore because this got long and also for anyone who is triggered by this topic

The conversation I think is surrounding proshitters ("shippers"), but I think the conversation also goes deeper into things like "incest" & "step family" being popular porn site searches that very often feature white actors, as well as those things showing up in film, book, and TV, but in romantisize/sexualized/downplayed ways written by and featuring, again, white people. So I believe generally the "obsession" part means White people who are overly preoccupied with seeing incest quite often, especially and specifically in sexualized, fetishized, and/or romantisized ways. Because personally (& I believe other nonwhite people can attest to this as well, and that's what the other posts mean to say) a lot of the people who have this overkeen interest in incest are White.

Like it's not talking about people wanting to have nuanced depictions of incest, why it's bad, how that affects people & can be extremely traumatizing, and then approaching that topic respectfully (because it should be, that's a terrible thing and showing respect for victims of it & ensuring its not, accidentally or not, endorsed or shown as "okay" or normalizing it, is important. Execution as well as intent are important & should be done with tact.) The people who are mentioned as being "obsessed with incest" as these pr0shippers who find incest "sexy", want to see it, actively search it out where it is both romantisized/sexualized/fetishized, and will apply it in fanon interpretations even when it doesn't exist in canon or this interpretation wouldn't/doesn't make sense anyway, specifically because they enjoy seeing it. They find it titillating. Quite a few of the popular users on this site who have famously defended incest (and/or pedophilia) both in real life AND as proshitters have been... White. And racist.

I think there IS a correlation between White people, proshitters (who are usually people who defend romantisized depictions of things like incest), and liking incest, because I very often seen proshitters be racist (and other types of bigoted tbh), and ALSO defend things like racist depictions of nonwhite characters, things like slavery AU's featuring Black characters, or colonizer AU's, and the like. It's a common joke (not so much of a joke tho tbh) that the more White people that exist prominently in a fandom, then the less fun it is, specifically because of racism that will then exist in that fandom. So there's this huge overlap of White fans being racist but ALSO there being a lot of fans who enjoy seeing incest in their fave medias, because of the proshitters, who do both. There was also that whole thing where a bunch of popular white users on here (many of whom ALSO defended incest) defended sexual raceplay & then called any nonwhite person (ESPECIALLY BLACK USERS) "homophobic" or "transphobic" for rightfully and correctly calling this racist.

Lots of White people like to do this thing where, if they are marginalized in some way, then they'll weaponize that marginalization against anyone who criticizes them for something (most often racism), even if their marginalized identity has nothing to do with the topic or was brought up. White women who happened to be gay called me "homophobic" and "misogynist" (even though I'm a bi woman but you know) because I talked about the nazi associations & racist inclinations of cottage core. I saw multiple White lotr fans call a specific artist "homophobic" because that artist asked that their art not be tagged as an incest ship, and that incest ship is very popular (and their art piece was depicting them as just family), but this incest ship isn't even canon, and the artist wasn't actually homophobic or against gay relationships in general. So they essentially just called this artist "homophobic" for no reason. Because they didn't want their art piece of two family members to be incorrectly interpreted as incestuous. Im even reluctant to draw fan art of some of my favorite characters who are family members, because I dont want people who ship incest to interact with it or tag it as that, and the fact that so many artists even have to ask people NOT to do this is insane.

Like it's one thing if someone analyzes media with it or might find comfort in certain characters in books or TV etc because they feel seen in their trauma, and yet can acknowledge that this isn't for everybody and not everyone processes their trauma this way, and that seeing it (incest in media) can make trauma WORSE for many people, AND that not all representations are made equally, and none of those are free from being available to criticism in approach of that representation anyway. But very often there's White fans (many who aren't even incest victims themselves, so they don't have the "I'm coping" excuse) that are offended that other people don't like seeing incest at ALL, that people will (understandably) not want to interact with them if they're a pr*shipper, and hate being reminded that treating incest like its a fun little interest that shouldn't be handled with care just because it's being featured in a fictional situation (or even sometimes when it's NOT) is pretty fucked up and even disrespectful & insensitive to incest survivors, and then chalk up any criticism of the amount of sexualized/romanticized incest as "censorship" even though that's not what's happening, and again, very often self victimize themselves and often are also racist.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

Not really an ask, but I just wanted to thank you and all the other critics that speak about how much of an actual shitshow SPOP was when dealing with C*tra.

For the longest time, I shipped C*tr*dora because I was an impressionable kid who saw them kiss and didn't realize that Canon ships can suck and still be Canon. I didn't Stan C*tra or anything, but I did try defending her one time to my irl friends and my only arguments were that:

A) She's Adora's girlfriend so there has to be good in her (yeah no)

And B) She was "redeemed".

But what actually got me second-guessing C*tra and her fans was when I saw a post about the S4 Glimmadora argument and saw hundreds of comments going; "Glimmer is so selfish!" "Glimmer is a horrible person!" "This is why C*tra is better than Glimmer."

And I was and still am the biggest Glimmer fan, and it made me upset. I mean, Glimmer literally lost her mom and was given basically no time to grieve. It didn't excuse her actions, but everyone kept talking about her like she was a villain trying to destroy the world. And then I thought;

'Didn't C*tra actually destroy the world?' And that got me in this deep rabbit hole of realizing C*tra and C*tr*dora is abusive in so many ways and telling myself I was crazy because so many people were defending her. But then I saw one of your posts, scrolled through your blog and realized; 'Oh, I'm not crazy. C*tra is a horrible person and her stans are just delusional.' It even made me realize how fucked up the show was in so many other aspects; The incest, the leash, the fact that the only enby character was a lizard, and so much more.

So thank you and all the other critics out there that might help give people validation or help people open their eyes.

Thank you. 💙

i'm glad you found my blog and other critic blogs helpful! i know that anti blogs generally have a reputation for nitpicking on unnecessary details and ruining the fun, but that was never what i wanted to do with mine. i didn't expect all of c//a stans to immediately understand my point and stop shipping c//a (most of them don't even pay attention to what we're saying, let alone try to understand) but getting asks like yours really renews my faith in humanity.

i try not to judge what other people ship or to project my moral compass too much into fiction but the problem with c//a isn't that it's toxic, it's the fact that it's heavily romanticized. if they merely wanted to explore an abusive relationship in fiction, that's not a problem. it's quite healthy, actually. but the fact that they imply that this is a healthy relationship and a lot of the fans defend this ship to hell and back is really concerning.

and yes, like you said, it's really hypocritical of fans to villanize glimmer so much for two mistakes that the narrative held her accountable for, while coddling catra who had to face exactly zero consequences for her actions.

i completely understand how you felt, it can often be daunting to be the only one to actually see things as they are, instead of blindly believing what the writers say because the rest of the fandom does. i didn't ship c//a at all but i felt the same way you did, seeing everyone praise the ship and wondering if i'm just being overdramatic.

it's only after i found an anti c//a account on instagram (@anticatradora ; they go into detail with a lot of the scenes in the show, if you want to check out their account!) that i realized that i was right, and this is actually a really weird and problematic ship that people are worshipping just because they're starved of queer representation. i understand wanting to see people like you represented in media, but there are a lot of characters and ships who are much better written and better developed than c//a.

anyway all of this to say, i'm proud of you for realizing the nuance of this situation in this hivemind of a fandom. it's always better to be open to criticism than to blindly defend a show just because you like it. thank you for this ask, it made my day! 💙

[darklinaforever]

I don't know if you know or even care judging by your heartless attitude and those of the anons baiting, but Grace has been discharged from the hospital. She just needed a few stitches. Her brother has said Grace is actually not meant to be on social media as it's hugely triggering for her, plus she has a history of making posts that spark harassment etc because her takes are seen as discriminatory etc. He thought it was the same old situation again and doesn't get the whole plagarism thing. I messaged him the screencaps Grace took of her post and yours and he thought she had written both posts which says it all. He's not really interested in that tbh. However he has contacted law enforcement for advice regarding the harassment claims - they have seen the screencaps of everything but the fact Grace deleted her blog has caused hassle. Without an actual account to trace the IPs then it gets complicated. They recommend getting legal representation in the meantime and to contact Tumblr directly. Grace's injuries have been photographed and filed, so has the whole plagarism thing as background but they're not really interested in that either. It's more about the threats. I don't know if you were involved but apparently the officer said they have to have actual evidence in terms of the original situation motivating a backlash from your followers. But it's sketchy and we can't make unproven allegations. He said so far there's no actual proof online of you goading people to go after Grace. Your responses are not enough to indicate this. If the case goes ahead and they uncover evidence, then yes, they will then act. Tbh, they're not really being helpful with this as they are implying it's a waste of their time and resources. The officer admitted that your post was probably plagarised but that's it.

I'm going to cut it off there as I've wasted enough time on this. I hope Grace learns her lesson and stays off this hellsite. The only good thing about this is all my mutuals and theirs have now blocked you if they hadn't already. I've heard a lot about you over the past 24 hours and none of it is good.i had no idea who you were before or I'd have moved to act sooner to protect Grace from you. God knows how many vulnerable people you fucked up ready. I'm hearing crazy things about you defend paedophelia, you pretend to be bi to express Anti LGBTQ opinions and get away with it etc. I don't know if this is true but who knows. I just think you are a really dangerous individual and people are taking your opinions at face value as fact. Anyone who challenges you is immediately called crazy and deluded and then subjected to abuse. Grace could have killed herself over this and for what? Some idiot copying her post? I feel you have a lot of unhealthy thoughts and feelings and post them here because in real life you'll get trouble for it. I don't really care. I just think you're absolutely vile and people should block you for their own safety.

1. I don't pretend to be Bi. I am bisexual woman. And I have never declared anything anti-LBGT. I'm just not comfortable with changing the on-screen gender of a male character who has been exist for years. It's still crazy to be called queerphobic for that.

(If you look at my tumblr account, I'm currently obsessed with the ship Catwin and Dead Boy Detectives in general ! 😂)

2. I am not defending pedophilia. Not even incest, because I'm also accused of that. Shipping fictional characters has nothing to do with real life. You need to get treatment.

3. The same people who say I'm anti LGBT also accuse "Grace" of also being anti-LGBT, by the way. Just to show you the level of stupidity these people have.

4. There is no evidence that my subscribers have harassed anyone ! And if they did, I NEVER in any way encouraged that to happen. As for this girl (apparently named Grace), I literally said that if it was true, it was sad, but I had nothing to do with it, and that I hoped she would get better. (How does that make me heartless?) But once again, I DIDN'T PLAGIARIZE HER, I didn't harass her, and I didn't encourage anyone to harass her (or other people) either.

I am a person who stays in my tags on tumblr. I almost never go to other people's blogs and even less to harass them with anonymous messages. At this point, I am the one who has been the victim of harassment by antis who are spreading bullshit about me and it continues now.

If this whole story is true, I wish Grace well, but I didn't plagiarize her, nor did I send anyone to harass her. And that's just the truth. Whether you believe me or not I don't care, I have a clear conscience and that's all that matters.