#I blame the thunder saga

[zukkaart]

I’ve seen a lot of Orpheus/Eurydice discourse lately and all I have to say on the matter is this

An Orpheus that wouldn’t have turned around is an Orpheus who wouldn’t have gone to the underworld in the first place

[raointean]

[gentrychild]

RIP to Eurylochus but I am different and I would have taken that secret to my grave.

[littler3d]

“It’s Odysseus’ fault” “It’s Eurylochus’ fault” “it’s everyone’s fault” WRONG

👏always 👏blame 👏the 👏gods 👏when 👏they 👏meddle 👏in 👏the 👏story 👏

[whalehouse1]

Co-worker who knows that I’m a nerd, “What are your plans for the 4th?”

Me, trying my best to figure out how to explain that the Thunder Saga is dropping for Epic, “Uh, well, YouTube is going to have a premiere for something I’m excited about.”

“Oh? What’s premiering?”

Me, literally stumbling over my words, trying to figure out how to explain Epic.

Him, “It’s something nerdy isn’t it?”

Me, “Yeah, so some guy seemingly got a hyper fixation on the Odyssey during Covid and decided to make a musical about it in parts, and the part with one of my favorite Greek monsters is this one.”

Him, confused cause he 100% was not expecting that type of answer, “Well, I hope it’s good.”

[transbutchblues]

whenever I see an Epic / Odysseus fan talking shit about Eurylochus, I have to stop myself from replying to them and instead just remind myself that some people have terrible opinions. and that’s okay!

[frogwiththephatahh]

Honestly, if I was Odysseus I'd be PISSED.

He spent 10 years at war, away from his family. He finally gets out of it. There's a few set backs getting home but nothing out of the ordinary for an ancient greek adventurer. Finally, he's almost home, and gets the wind god to trap a storm in a bag so he can make it to his island without incident.

Then, four fucking feet from Ithica's shore, some stupid bitch opens the wind bag and blasts them right back to where they started. Now he's beefing with a god, and there's this witch trying to seduce and/or eat him, and he goes to the underworld to try fixing everything only to hear the worst possible news ever.

But he's got a plan. He's got a lead on which way to go. It's not a great path, but it's all he's got. And all it's going to cost him is six men. Awesome.

He gets through Scylla's layer. Which is a miracle in and of itself! Only for the entire crew to immediately turn against him, stab him, and sic Zeus on them after killing cows Ody literally told them not to touch. Now he's on some weird girl's island, stranded, without knowing where he is or how to build a boat and get home.

ngl, I would have given up by Circe. That's my new life now. Penelope doesn't exist anymore I'm married to Circe.

[agentoffangirling]

Um. Care to explain what you mean by "some people"? Because so far the only people I've seen have legitimate issues with Hold Them Down have been SA survivors. And ngl, you sound a little victim blamey.

I'm blaming that one person on TikTok who believes Jorge Rivera-Herrans is problematic bc he included a topic of SA in a song about a myth that has SA

My problems are not that the person is a victim, bc genuinely what they have gone through is awful and I would never wish that on ANYONE. My problem is that they don't seem to understand that the Odyssey has some very uncomfortable topics in it and it's not an invention of Jorge to include it in "Hold Them Down". My problem is that they believe that it was made up so we could feel bad about Penelope. My problem is that they believe such inclusion makes Jorge a bad writer and that he should never write music again

It's quite literally aimed at nobody else, just at that one person who does not understand it was in the og myth and Jorge did a best of a job he could at depicting such a thing respectfully

[xfilesinamajor]

Um....what?

Just like that? He unties himself? I always assumed that, realizing he'd majorly screwed up, Eurylochus or one of the men cut him loose.

Ody, if you could untie yourself that whole time, why the f*ck didn't you do it before they killed the cow?

[merp-blerp]

Just thinking out loud about The Thunder Saga and everything connected to it.

I get why people are mad at Eurylochus for opening the windbag, but I don't understand blaming him for the crew getting caught by Poseidon. Sure he definitely sped up the event, but even if they were inches away from Ithaca right before that moment like they were in the original Odyssey (which seems to be hinted at with Ody saying "And I'm getting closer to you"), Poseidon would've gotten to them eventually anyway because he's a god, a major one at that. And gods get their will no matter what consistently, even if mortals try to twist it like how Ody does when opening the bag a second time. I can only assess what sagas we have currently, so I could be really wrong as future sagas come out, but I think Aeolus must've known that fact and that was the game he was playing. As if he's saying, "I'll help you, but I can't stop Poseidon with a bag. The Winions will even make it extra hard with a treasure rumor." The bag was supposed to aid the crew home, not stop Poseidon, so they would've had to deal with Poseidon anyway in Ithaca, which probably would've made more casualties because they would've brought their trouble to the whole kingdom. Remember Ithaca is on an island. Poseidon is the god of the sea, so Ithaca would be a perfect target for him to destroy because of that. But it's not his will to do that; he wants to play games with Ody to avenge his son. The only reason why mortals feel like they have a choice and can manipulate fate is because the gods like to play games; it's still their will if Ody wins a game like he does in "Ruthlessness" because it was their will to play in the first place, and they can win if/when they want to. Just 'cause Poseidon "lost" in "Ruthlessness" doesn't mean he actually did, he just let Odysseus go. For now. If his will changes and Ody gets no consequence from him it's on his terms, not Ody's. Just like with Circe, as I've talked about.

But back to Eurylochus, I adore the parallels between The Thunder Saga and The Ocean Saga. During The Ocean Saga, Eurylochus only opens the bag, not for treasure, but to give the crew closure, as we know thanks to Aeolus's "Now they wanna get the bag open so they can have closure". Especially if they were close to home, I imagine his thought process might've been that opening the bag was wrong but morally okay since the journey was almost done and Odysseus was sleeping so it seemed like it wasn't a big deal anymore in his eyes. But that's more my hypothesis. In terms of canon, his trust in Ody, which wasn't high to begin with, was dwindling, as Ody bragged about how no men died in war and then several died with the Cyclops. "Everything's changed since Polites, so". In The Thunder Saga, it's similar, as Eurylochus knows killing the cow is wrong, but they've all lost hope on getting home with their captain going to extremes to get there himself, killing them slowly like with Scylla. They know that deep down the whole time Odysseus wanted to get home himself mainly, only bringing the crew because he cared out of the kindness of his heart, and now that his heart has changed they know they won't get to Ithaca if the gods keep messing around (and they do). This post pointed out that Eurylochus was likely just trying to provide for the crew and himself in their final moments before another trap emerges and Odysseus decides to continue to sacrifice his men if he feels it has to be done again. Eurylochus isn't dumb, he knows their goose is cooked if they kill the cow, especially with Ody in his ear telling him, but they'll die either way, in the hand of the gods or Ody. They will die and not see home, but at least they can die not starving, and go on for a bit longer. They had nothing to lose. Eurylochus had doubted Odysseus this whole time and he does so till the end. When Eurylochus says, "But we'll die", it's not a plea to stay alive, it's him confirming out loud that Odysseus will not choose his men over Penelope and Telemachus. He's reaffirming to Ody that they'll die; almost like he's finishing Ody's sentence "I have to see her". Odysseus couldn't say it, but Eurylochus could since he'd known they'd died for so long already. In the live stream animatic, the crew attempting to kill Odysseus near the end of "Thunder Bringer" isn't them trying to escape their fate, but trying to bring Ody down with them so Ody won't get his choice. They've long accepted the fact that Ody isn't to be trusted and they all are going to die, but Ody is, for lack of a better word I can think of, cheating in the crew's eyes by having an out thanks to Zeus. In their view of fairness, they all have to die if they aren't getting home. It's a last attempt at a mutiny. It fails because that's not how Zeus wants his game to work, and he gets his will.

They are all puppets of the fate the gods have chosen, whether that fate benefits them or not.

(The only "exception" to the "Will of the gods" rule so far is Ody and the baby, since Jay has said it's "ambiguous" whether or not the baby is spared. If not exactly by being dropped, I'm sure he'd die some other way honestly because the gods want that. It'll probably come up again in a later saga—"ambiguous" is too cryptic of a word to use when everyone assumed he died in the first saga)

This is all just my take, by the way, no one has to agree with me.

[shadowslocked]

Fandom: If Eurylochus hadn't opened the bag, Odysseus and the crew would be home and not dead :(

So are we just going to forget that Odysseus doxing himself to the Cyclops is the whole reason Poseidon is even after them and decided to teach them a lesson by murdering every last one of them? It's only Eurylochus fault?

Okay

[gods-favorite-autistic]

“Eurylochus killed those 500 men with Poseidon” incorrect Poseidon would’ve killed them anyways “oh but they were almost home” Poseidon is a literal god I can promise you he wouldn’t give a shit

[raointean]

[angst-is-love-angst-is-life]

“If you want all the power, you must carry all the blame” ABNORMAL ABOUT THAT LINE

[valorianknights]

After listening to the Thunder Saga on Repeat for NINE DAYS, I think it's time for me to post some art I'm almost done with of some of the lovely ladies in Epic. Penelope, Circe and Calyspo are coming up tomorrow!

After that I'm going to try to finish up some Hazbin Hotel W.I.P 's that I put on hold. Hehehe.

[haze-of-hyperfixations]

So. Obviously the Luck Runs Out references in Mutiny are heartbreaking and fantastic.

But I think the song was also setting up some parallels with Puppeteer.

Puppeteer: "There's no length I wouldn't go, if it was you I had to save. I can only hope you'd do the same." Mutiny: "Don't make me fight you, brother, you know you'd have done the same!"

And the thing is, Eurylochus would have done the same. Earlier in the story. During Puppeteer, he wanted to run. He wanted to abandon his men. And Odysseus was the one to fight for their crew. And it worked!! They got out! Odysseus gave them a shred of hope and got them out of an impossible situation! So Eurylochus learns from that. He grows and changes. He becomes someone who refuses to leave his men at the mercy of a monster. Unfortunately, this was around the same time that Odysseus decided to become the monster.

That's the tragedy of it all; they both change, and they're still at odds! Eurylochus is throwing Odysseus's own past heroic decisions back at him. Odysseus retaliates by reminding Eurylochus of his own past cowardice. They don't know each other anymore!! They're two desperate people trying to make the best decisions they can, and they just keep getting people hurt, and they're both so tired.

Puppeteer: "I've got all the power, yeah, I've got all the power-" Mutiny: "If you want all the power, you must carry all the blame!"

In a way, the Eurylochus vs Odysseus conflict parallels the Odysseus vs Circe conflict. And the Circe Saga ended with Odysseus at Circe's mercy as he begged her to let them leave. The Thunder Saga ended with Eurylochus and the crew at Odysseus's mercy, with "Captain? ... But we'll die." Circe spared Odysseus. Odysseus chose to let his men die. He's come full circle, paralleling the enemy he once faced, and then going further than she did.

Does any of that make sense? I don't know, it's almost two in the morning. Anyways, the Thunder Saga ripped out my heart and I'm obsessed with the tragic humanity of all of it!!!