#Gestation 1.3

[got-into-worm-by-mistake]

Gestation 1.3 Live Reactions

(This is me, writing reactions as I read, because why the fuck not. They're not complete, mature thoughts taken after I sit back and evaluate what I've read. Consider them as such)

My training schedule consisted of running every morning and every other afternoon.  In the process, I had picked up a pretty good knowledge of the east side of the city.  Growing up in Brockton Bay, my parents had told me stuff like “stick to the Boardwalk”.  Even on my runs, I had scrupulously stayed on the Boardwalk and avoided the bad part of town.  Now it was Sunday night and I was in costume and breaking the rules.

Running off the boardwalk in the middle of the night in costume looking for crime to fight feels like the least of your rulebreaking, Taylor.

Just moving from one block to the next, you could see the change in the area.  As I made my way into the Docks, I could see the quality of my surroundings decline steeply.  There were enough warehouses and apartments in the area for even the most destitute to find shelter, so the only people on the streets were unconscious drunks, whores and gang members.  I steered clear of any and all people I saw and ventured further into the area.

I always love it in stories where the setting becomes a character, and from what I hear, that's definitely going to be the case for the city of Brockton Bay.

 Anyone paying attention to the local cockroach population might think something was up,

That, I think, would be a list that would include exactly zero people at this point. Even exterminators wouldn't be 'paying attention' to the cockroach population, per se.

I knew who these guys were.  They were members from the local gang that left the tags ‘Azn Bad Boys’, ABB for short, all over the East end of the city.  More than a few went to my school.  As far as the criminal element in Brockton Bay went, they weren’t small potatoes.  While the typical gang members were just Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese and Chinese forcibly recruited from Brockton Bay’s high schools and lower class neighborhoods, the gang was led by a couple of people with powers.  Gangs didn’t tend to be that racially inclusive as far as who joined, so it said something that their leader had the ability to draw in members from so many different nationalities and keep them in line.

Ah yes, the ABB. One of the parts of Worm that I gather ages poorly, and may not have been all that well thought out. But that's hardly surprising, nor a black mark against Wildbow or Worm.

As for it being so ethnically diverse, I'd say that has as much to do with how everyone is grouped together under the 'Asian' heading here in the US, rather than Lung being particularly open-minded. Though I could be wrong.

He went by ‘Lung’, had successfully gone toe to toe with whole teams of heroes and had managed to keep himself out of jail, as evidenced by his presence here.  As for his powers, I only knew what I could scrounge up online, and there were no guarantees there.  I mean, for all I knew, he could have misled people about what his powers did, he could have a power he was keeping up his sleeve for an emergency, or he could even have a very subtle power that people couldn’t see at work.

Another cool choice, especially given what I gather is Taylor's penchant for Puzzle-boss wins later on, as it were. Also one of the reasons why information really is so vitally useful in Worm, and how Taylor's powers are key for that.

Most conventional superhero verses I'm familiar with definitely lend themselves more to an approach where a supervillain or superhero's powerset is largely established - obviously DC and Marvel can't avoid that, but even other superhero media seems to have that too.

But the internet is full of lies, mistakes and misrepresentations. Really makes you wonder what the in-universe wikipedia entry for Superman is like tho.

I decided to move away from where I was and find a better vantage point to monitor their conversation, which seemed like a good compromise between my curiosity and my self preservation. 

Very fair. Going against the fire-breathing armored dude who can eventually become a dragon does seem hazardous to one's health.

They were going to kill kids?

And so the Wormverse turns. Had she not heard the word 'Children', or had Lung used a different word, or just said 'The Undersiders' or whatever...

1.3 doesn't really seem to have a whole lot going on honestly but it isn't nothing, and sometimes you just need a bit of a bridging chapter.

[wormbloggign]

yup, this was written in 2011

really? this place kinda sounds like a shithole....

i can only imagine this community full of teenagers who grew up as 1st or even 2nd generation immigrants, being othered and antagonised by percieved differences will be treated with utmost kindness and empathy from taylor who has experienced similar social ostricisation (:

fucking LUNG??? this is incredibly funny in the worst ways possible, if i were drinking something i would have done a spittake here.

maybe dragons ability has something to do with the dragon tattoos on his arms, or the fact everyone is calling him dragon or his very explicitly dragonlike abilities you're mentioning. could be anything tho.

it gets better (worse)

you're telling me this gang, full of teenagers and children are in a gang war with other children? im shocked.

[patchoulimodelo]

ah, it really didn't take very long for one of the less good parts of worm to rear its head huh

[fishenjoyer1]

Fish of the day

Today's fish of the day is the Frilled shark!

The frilled shark, scientific name Chlamydoselachus anguineus, is known for its irregular teeth. This animal is often referred to as serpent-esc due to the unique swimming motions, and living in the darkened sea floor, where they can camouflage. Found at depths of 120-1,280 meters of depth (394-4,200 feet) the distribution of these animals is referred to as "spotty" and despite knowing of them since the 1870's, we are unsure of their full range. However, we have found all current populations in the Indo-Pacific, Pacific, and Atlantic oceans. 

Notable populations can be found along the Pacific coastline along California, Chile, Japan, and Southern Australia and New Zealand. Notable Atlantic populations are along the coast of Brazil, outside Southern Canada, Florida, the Western Sahara, and The West coast of Europe. They live along the edges of the continental shelf, spacing itself from both coastlines and the surface. Like other deep sea sharks, the frilled shark takes place in diel migration, which is a migration that takes place nightly when deep sea animals travel toward the surface when it is dark to prey on surface animals.

Considered as one of the older and more primitive sharks, this 6 gilled wonder has fossils that were found dating as far back as 95 million years ago, making them living fossils. Related to the Greenland sharks, scaffold sharks, and silk sharks they are a member of the Hexanchiformes order, what was once thought to be the basal group for sharks, but it actually just a particularly old order within the Squalomoprpha subdivision. The Hexanchiformes order is known for having no nictating membranes, a further back spiracle than most sharks, and notable to our focus today, lacking the multi layer enameloid layer on the tops of teeth.  

Before we had found many of the specimen that named them living fossils, the frilled shark specifically was thought of as old due to their only partial cartilaginous notochord, which is a kind of elastic rod-like structure found in bilateral animals. Notochord can be found is all embryonic vertebrates, but is replaced by the bony vertebral column, with the original notochord being found in the intervertebral discs. The mouth of the frilled shark contains 300 needle-teeth which has a cusp and two cusplets (a raised surface, and then two divots outside of it, making smaller raised surfaces) which have anywhere from 19-29 rows on the top and bottom. The mouth is known for being able to open wide and eat foods that are larger then their entire body, similar to other deep sea fish, but being the only shark to do so.

The diet of the shark is primarily made up of cephalopods, but will eat gastropods, fish, and small sharks when available. It hunts for these with mechanoreceptor hair cells, which sense movement and vibration, and pressure in the water nearby them. The frilled shark is a ambush predator, often preying on tired or dying prey that have finished spawning, hiding along the sea floor, waiting to strike by biting. These teeth are used for snagging animals and hooking into the flesh so regardless of struggle, and the frilled sharks relatively weak bite, they cannot be freed.

Frilled sharks have defined breeding season, but they do have a size at which they reach sexual maturity. At around 1-1.2 meters male frilled sharks will mature, and at around 1.3-1.5 the female sharks will do the same. The shark is ovoviviparous, meaning that they are an egg, but that this egg will hatch within the mother and the pup will then sustain off of this yolk until live birth, and the shark will have as many as 2-15 pups after their gestation of 3-3.5 years. The pups are then left to fend for themselves, and will reach a full adult size of 2 meters, and pass away anywhere from 20-25 years after birth.

Have a wonderful day, everybody!

[allwormdiet]

Arc 1: Gestation, Concluding Thoughts

Two days in the life of Taylor Hebert, with a bonus one night in the life of Danny Hebert. Let's break it down.

Right now, initial feelings are really positive. I like this arc, I get why people are in on this in such a hardcore fashion, like it's making sense to me as I'm reading it. The characterization is really strong, the A to B plot is cool, and the first fight scene was a fucking banger to open up with.

And like, shit, I get why Taylor is throwing herself into cape life, right? Civilian life is already such fucking misery for her, utterly alone and the only person who's theoretically in her corner is sympathetic but just as helpless as she is. Yeah sure, mortal peril, but if she had nothing to do I feel like the bullying would've killed her eventually. Death versus Lung is at least marginally more noble than death by Emma. And isn't that fucking bleak.

Looking ahead a little bit towards Arc 2 and I'm immensely curious how long it'll take Taylor to do cape stuff again. I feel like I'd need a solid month to process the whole "near death experience" thing and then spend time sweating over whether I even put the mask on ever again. Meanwhile I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor went back out in like a week, because she's a hardcore maniac.

It's also very interesting looking at this and considering the exact sequence of events that went through these chapters. If the bullies didn't wreck Taylor's notebook, or if Taylor took a different message away from its destruction, there might be one or more dead Undersiders right now, and to a lesser extent Armsmaster wouldn't both get credit for a major capture and also owe this rookie hero a favor. Both of those things are going to matter a lot, and it's, I dunno, some people would call that contrived but real life is so full of weird coincidence and happenstance I can buy this no problem.

...Honestly now I get why so many AUs that diverge before this point still include the Lung fight and the Undersiders and Armsmaster meetings, like yeah at that point it's contrivance but I'm not going to sweat an author too hard because they don't want to figure out how fucking dramatic the butterfly effect (hah, butterfly) would be on the rest of the story. Like yeah it's contrived, but that's a lot of work they'd have to do otherwise.

That aside, I'm gonna get back on topic and meditate on my current gripes. 1.3 was a legitimate low point in this arc with the description of the Docks and its residents and their circumstances, and the total clusterfuck of the Azn Bad Boys, which. By the by this is the last time I'm going to say the full name of that gang, ABB is shorter and is less embarrassing for everybody involved. Wall-to-wall racism, classism, and an utter lack of sympathy for the lesser-thans. Like we're talking about crack whores in the year of our lord 2011, or, they were written about in 2011 and I'm hollering about it on the internet in 2024. When this kind of thing comes back up (when, not if, I'm not that optimistic) I just hope I can work around it, like eating everything but the bruise on an apple.

To close this out, I'm thinking about the people in Taylor's life. Emma, a former friend turned bully, and her cronies Madison and Sophia. Pretty shallow characterization at this point, just that they're cruel to the point of hospitalizing their victim. Danny Hebert is supportive, but has all the strength of a sponge when it comes to holding up against the pressures that weigh on Taylor, and he knows it but he's not doing anything differently. The Undersiders, criminals who mistake Taylor for a criminal, but identify her correctly as a comrade and potential friend, who realize she was fighting for them and went to fight for her. Armsmaster, who offers her very genuine and very sought-after praise as an authority figure, and then leans on that authority to get what he wants out of a freshly traumatized and exhausted teenager.

Is it any wonder that Taylor takes the path that she does? Would anyone have it in them to be surprised if they could see all of this from a bird's eye view?

I wonder if Armsmaster ever thinks back about this night, lying awake in bed. If he ever wonders what he could or should have done differently, or if he couldn't have done anything to divert course.

I was talking to my girlfriend about something related to this the other night, actually. If it's worse in a tragedy for there to have been a chance to avert it all, or if it's worse for the end to be inevitable. Looking at Taylor, looking at Brockton Bay, looking at Earth Bet? I dunno. If someone had acted early, with knowledge and intention sufficient to actually provide aid, maybe it would've been enough, but hell. Maybe not. I don’t know which possibility is more damning.

...I get melancholy when it's late, but I don't think it'd be right to delete all that; it's how I'm feeling about the novel, and that's what this blog is for, so even if it's a bit dramatic it'd be self-defeating to pretend I didn't say it.

Arc 2... probably starts tomorrow, assuming nothing comes up. Glad to say I'm looking forward to it.

[victoriadallonfan]

Gestation 1.3

You can't say that bug girl!

[maaarine]

Eve: How the Female Body Drove 200 Million Years of Human Evolution (Cat Bohannon, 2023)

"So, let’s concede that agriculture was crucial to the rise of cities.

But then let’s ask the other question: not just who’s feeding the adults, but who’s feeding the babies in this growing population, and how that affects how they are being made in the first place.

After all, female bodies are the literal engineers of urban populations.

Agriculture might have helped an abundance of bodies to come together, exploiting all those urban niches, but we should also assume that new problems arose from such close contact: widespread infections, for one, the legacy of which we can see in the oligosaccharides of human milk.

We also know that from the dawn of recorded civilization human beings have employed wet nurses.

These women, paid or enslaved to breast-feed others’ babies, enabled population booms. (…)

Breast-feeding, in other words, is a very predictable sort of birth control.

It is an imperfect birth control, with a far lower success rate than our more modern interventions (condoms, hormones, bits of copper inserted in the womb), but nonetheless breast-feeding is Nature’s Pill.

Morgie didn’t have the energy to nurse more than one set of pups at a time; it would have been suicide not to space out her pregnancies.

For this reason, the genetic mutations that allowed birth spacing were favored.

Once primates evolved to have fewer offspring at a time, that evolutionary legacy had a strong hold.

Generally speaking, our ovaries stay quiet while our breasts are at work.

So, imagine what happens to a city’s population when you have a large percentage of its mothers employing wet nurses.

In principle, that would reduce a woman’s mean birth interval significantly, from 4.1 years to as little as 1.3 years.

Gestation takes about 9 months. You’d be pregnant pretty much all the time.

Meanwhile, wet nurses wouldn’t be pregnant as often as you, but because breast-feeding is an imperfect ovulation suppressor, they wouldn’t be entirely un-pregnant, either.

Many would have their own children, some of them born immediately before yours and some born while yours are still nursing.

Many women are perfectly capable of nursing more than two children.

These so-called super producers—we can assume such women would be more likely to find steady employment as a wet nurse—could be nursing three or four kids at a time without much increase in infant mortality.

It’s not hard to imagine how the population of an ancient city could explode under such circumstances."

[pleistocene-pride]

Dasyurus maculates, better known as the tiger quoll, the spotted-tail quoll, the spotted quoll, the spotted-tail dasyure, native cat or the tiger cat, is a carnivorous marsupial native to eastern and southern Australia and the island of Tasmania. These semi-arboreal mammals can be found in a variety of habitats including mixed dry and alpine forests, pastureland, and grasslands, but seem to prefer wetter environments such as riverine forests, rainforests and closed eucalypt forest. Tiger quolls are generally nocturnal, spending there days in dens they build in burrows, caves, rock crevices, tree hollows, hollow logs, or abandoned buildings. They emerge at night to hunt prey such as insects, crustaceans, lizards, snakes, frogs, birds, platypus, echidnas, rabbits, possums, cuscuses, gliders, bandicoots, pademelons, small wallabies, and wombats. Tiger quolls are themselves preyed upon by Tasmanian devils, masked owls, dingos, large pythons, and wedge-tailed eagles. Reaching around 27 to 45 inches (69 to 113cms) in length and 3 to 15lbs (1.3 to 7kgs) in weight, with females being a far bit smaller than males, the tiger quoll is the second largest carnivorous marsupial on earth after the Tasmanian devil. At 308 newtons the tiger quoll also sports the second most powerful bite relative to body size of any living mammalian carnivore, after the Tasmanian devil. The tiger quoll has relatively short legs, a tail as long as the rest of its body, a thick neck, and large head with an elongated rounded snout. Each foot has 5 toes with pink foot pads are ridged, an adaptation for its arboreal lifestyle. The fur is typically reddish brown, occasionally black, with a creamy white colored underside. Mating occurs from april into july. The gestation period in this species lasts for 21 days, yielding 5 young on average. The babies are then moved to the pouch of their mother, where they continue to grow for the following 12 weeks. The young become fully independent by 18 to 21 weeks of age, reach sexual maturity at 1 year, and may live up to 7 years.

[cpericardium]

💧 barker and biter

Barker wanted to get a faceful of capsaicin and he was insubordinate on purpose. He said 'whore' specifically because Skitter is openly anti sex work (Gestation 1.3). Biter used to work in fast food which is how he knows teenagers pop their pimples over the french fries for added grease.

[cronepunk]

Diabetes--What You Need to Know About This Hidden Danger

Diabetes is a disease in which blood glucose levels are above normal. Most of the food we eat is turned into glucose (sugar) for our bodies to burn to create energy. The pancreas, an organ that lies near the stomach, produces a hormone called insulin to help click here to learn more glucose get into the cells of our bodies. When you have diabetes, your body either doesn't make enough insulin or can't use its own insulin as well as it should. This causes large amounts of sugar to build up in your blood.

The actual cause of diabetes continues to be a mystery, although both genetics and environmental factors such as obesity appear to play major roles. Diabetes can cause serious health complications including heart disease, blindness, kidney failure, and lower-extremity amputations. According to the Center for Disease Control, diabetes is the sixth leading cause of death in the United States. As of 2002, 18.2 million people in the U.S.--6.3 percent of the population--had diabetes, with 1.3 million new cases being diagnosed each year. The National Institutes of Health also estimate that an additional 5.2 million people have diabetes without actually being aware of it.

There are two main types of diabetes. Type 1 diabetes, which was previously called insulin-dependent diabetes or juvenile-onset diabetes, accounts for about 10% of all diagnosed cases of diabetes. Type 2 diabetes, which was called non-insulin-dependent or adult-onset diabetes, accounts for the remaining 90%. Gestational diabetes is a type of diabetes that only pregnant women get. If not treated, it can cause problems for both the baby and the mother. Gestational diabetes develops in 2% to 5% of all pregnancies, but usually disappears when the pregnancy is over.

Diabetes is a serious disease and phrases such as "a touch of diabetes" or "your blood sugar is a little high" tend to dismiss the fact that diabetes is a major killer of Americans. In addition to the lives that are lost, diabetes has a tremendous economic impact in the United States. The National Diabetes Education Program estimates the cost of diabetes in 2002 was $132 billion. Of this amount, $92 billion was due to direct medical costs and $40 billion due to indirect costs such as lost workdays, restricted activity, and disability due to diabetes. The average medical expenditure for a person with diabetes was $13,243, or 5.2 times greater than the cost for a person without diabetes. In addition, 11 percent of national health care expenditures went to diabetes care.

[dreambop]

Worm reading update #1 (Gestation 1.3)

Poor Taylor really has a shitty school life, but I’m liking her a lot as a narrator! Though I’m not sure if going up against a gang boss with dragon superpowers is a great idea for a first mission.

[petsincollections]

Two capybaras standing in grass

35 mm slide; color. Scientific Classification: Kingdom: Animalia; Phylum: Chordata; Class: Mammalia; Order: Rodentia; Family: Hydrochoeridae; Genus: Hydrochoerus; Genus species: Hydrochoerus hydrochaeris. Animal characteristics: Head-Body Length: 1-1.3 m; Height: 50-62 cm; Weight: 35-66 kg; Identification: The capybara has light brown coloration, long bristle-like hairs, no tail, and partial webbing between its toes; Habitat: Forests, open grasslands; Diet: Herbivore: aquatic plants, grasses; Reproduction: Mating is done in the spring. Gestation takes 15-18 weeks and females can give birth to up to seven young at a time. Females will suckle any young within their family group. The young can eat grass within a week after birth. Life expectancy for capybaras is 5-10 years; Social Structure: Family groups change by the season. During the wet season, 10-40 capybaras may belong to a single group. These groups usually have one dominant male, 1+ females, several young, and 1+ subordinate males. When conditions are more dry, up to 100 animals will gather together; Behavior: Much of the capybara's time is spent in the water; Status: No special status; Interesting Facts: Capybaras, the largest living rodents, are excellent swimmers and divers.

CSU - Garst (Warren and Genevieve) Collection

Mountain Scholar - Digital Collections of Colorado

[allwormdiet]

Gestation 1.3

I'm gonna be so annoyed if Automattic kills Tumblr before I finish reading this series, but anyway

Again, Taylor, I adore you and I've barely even gotten to know you, but this costume is so fucking scary and if that wasn't on purpose I'm not sure how you missed that.

Incidentally, was thinking about this haste during my shift yesterday. The events of 1.1 are massively critical to the entire rest of the story's events in a way I hadn't initially registered, even when they were laid out in 1.2: the incident with the juice wasn't just another awful moment in Taylor's life, and it wasn't even meant as a simple establishment of the bullies' characters. The destruction of Taylor's notebook is what puts her out here on the streets tonight, and of course her first night out is a momentous one.

WOW just going right into it huh. Crack whores and gangsters. Taylor you live next to these people and, if I understand correctly, you live in a single-income household and your father works for the Dock Worker's Union, in a city where there's no dock work. You wanna show a little more sympathy for the have-nots next door.

...Is there still a crack problem in Earth Bet? Like crack cocaine pretty decidedly fell off in its presence and profitability in our own world, for a lot of reasons. It could be a matter of timeline differences, but this one irks for some reason.

Whatever, moving on.

There is a certain kind of delicious symbolism in the Protectorate being so removed from the city it's charged to protect that it is literally an artificial island on the water, bristling with force fields and missiles that have never even been used. Taylor finds the defenses comforting, but will they protect Brockton Bay?

And again I'm a little surprised at the lack of sympathy for the people who lost work with the Docks losing their lifeblood; the rich get richer and the poor are there to be goons for the costumed lunatics trying to make money off those rich dickheads. No care for whether the goons are doing it because they want to or because they're trying to make the best of a bad situation.

For now I'm gonna just chalk this up to Taylor thinking like a cop, but I suspect with the different POVs in the Interludes it's gonna turn out no, Wildbow's thinking like a cop.

Kinda more of the same as above. Interesting that the Docks are short on power, but in a really bleak kinda way; the first two chapters weren't shy about describing the lingering cold in the Bay, that can't be comfortable in there.

I know everyone who's already read Worm is well past this point, and I know enough to not be surprised, but this first introduction to the ABB is not heartening. Like I know a bunch of them are here as a diaspora, like Japan just straight up doesn't exist anymore, and I can't imagine that Brockton Bay treats its immigrant population super well, given the fucking Nazis running around so sticking together is somewhat reasonable, but like. Pan-Asian ethnic gang (which is a fucking oxymoron in itself) that hangs out in a mostly-abandoned neighborhood with no profit opportunities? What, are they bullying the drunks for spare change?

Also it's such a petty gripe but what the fuck with the red/green gang colors, it makes me think of Christmas and it ruins the seriousness of the moment.

Yeah hey I know this guy

Wild to know Lung just goes around shirtless, doesn't even put on a jacket or anything.

Again that lumping Asian cultures together by calling the dragon tattoos from "Eastern" mythology, I know Taylor probably doesn't know which ones they're from but she doesn't have to specify. Just, ugh. I need to move past all the gang based narration before it spoils things.

Current Thoughts

Yeah so that thing up at the top where I mused that the destruction of Taylor's notebook being a fundamental stepping stone in the novel's timeline was partly informed by osmosis, because I know this first night is important for a lot of reasons. Obviously got a bit longer to go before we see the rest of the night play out, and of course the repercussions form literally the entire rest of the novel, but that's for later.

Meantime, God, people have told me Wildbow was a frustrating writer when it came to like, the treatment of nonwhite people and poverty and the root causes of crime and all, but it really is a different beast to experience with my own eyes. What a fucker. I'm probably gonna get real sick of that down the line, but I've navigated around worse writer habits than this.

Probably gonna keep reading through the evening. Let's go save the Undersiders.

[newlabdakos]

Paraceratherium

(temporal range: 34-23 mio. years ago)

[text from the Wikipedia article, see also link above]

Paraceratherium is an extinct genus of hornless rhinocerotoids belonging to the family Paraceratheriidae. It is one of the largest terrestrial mammals that has existed and lived from the early to late Oligocene epoch (34–23 million years ago). The first fossils were discovered in what is now Pakistan, and remains have been found across Eurasia between China and the Balkans. Paraceratherium means "near the hornless beast", in reference to Aceratherium, the genus in which the type species P. bugtiense was originally placed.

The exact size of Paraceratherium is unknown because of the incompleteness of the fossils. The shoulder height was about 4.8 metres (15.7 feet), and the length about 7.4 metres (24.3 feet). Its weight is estimated to have been about 15 to 20 tonnes (33,000 to 44,000 lb). The long neck supported a skull that was about 1.3 metres (4.3 ft) long. It had large, tusk-like incisors and a nasal incision that suggests it had a prehensile upper lip or proboscis (trunk). The legs were long and pillar-like. The lifestyle of Paraceratherium may have been similar to that of modern large mammals such as the elephants and extant rhinoceroses. Because of its size, it would have had few predators and a long gestation period. It was a browser, eating mainly leaves, soft plants, and shrubs. It lived in habitats ranging from arid deserts with a few scattered trees to subtropical forests. The reasons for the animal's extinction are unknown, but various factors have been proposed.

The taxonomy of the genus and the species within has a long and complicated history. Other genera of Oligocene indricotheres, such as Baluchitherium, Indricotherium, and Pristinotherium, have been named, but no complete specimens exist, making comparison and classification difficult. Most modern scientists consider these genera to be junior synonyms of Paraceratherium, and it is thought to contain the following species; P. bugtiense, P. transouralicum, P. huangheense, and P. linxiaense. The most completely-known species is P. transouralicum, so most reconstructions of the genus are based on it. Differences between P. bugtiense and P. transouralicum may be due to sexual dimorphism, which would make them the same species.

[thepro-lifemovement]

Okay, since you refuse to answer the question, lets look at the data on abortions 21 weeks gestation and after. The youngest surviving premature baby was 21 weeks and one day, so we know babies have a possibility of surviving this early. Data from both the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Guttmacher Institute on total abortions and late-term abortions suggests that approximately 1.1 to 1.3% of abortions are carried out at 21 weeks of gestation and later. And this data excludes 18 areas, including California and New York, so the number may even be higher.

Many late-term abortions are elective, frequently complicated by coercion, indecision and partner abandonment. In reporting on the results of a study of late-term abortions in 2013 (Foster, Kimport) in the journal Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, a publication of the pro-choice Guttmacher Institute, the authors acknowledge that “data suggests that most women seeking later terminations are not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment.” This paper by Hern reviewed 1,040 late-term abortions performed at 18 to 38 weeks of gestation between 1999 and 2004. So you can't say abortions up until birth don't exist when they have been allowed, at least in the past. I assume most states now ban abortion after "viability."

I believe my previous question was a reasonable one based on the data above. So new question: do you support abortion up until viability? Or do you believe women have a right to abortion post viability?

Pro-aborts are so obsessed with getting pro-lifers to say there’s at least one time abortion is ok (rape, save the mother’s life, etc) but none of them will name a time where abortion isn’t ok.