#Fulvia/Clodia

[enlitment]

Which Underrated Woman from History are You?

Finally got around to making a uquiz featuring six of my favourite women from history! You can either get someone from the French Revolution, Roman Republic (I know, how unexpected!) or from 1700s/early 1800s.

Featuring scientists, writers, politically active icons and a few poets whose lives were intertwined with theirs, as a treat!

Enjoy and thanks everyone for sharing! ✨

[catominor]

roman matrona dressing up her twink boytoys in her clothes

[woodsteingirl]

we need to post more ancient roman lesbians. why can’t we talk about women…..

[enlitment]

This is such a hard choice! I guess I'll go with Porcia for the possibility of a double date with additional potential

Women of the Late Republic of Rome & Early Roman Empire on a Modern Date

Cornelia Cinnae

She is absolutely lovely and a sweet soul. The kind of woman you would give up a dowry, your inheritance, and your priesthood for even under the threat of violence. Her ideal date is a tour through a large, public garden. If you end up together, you'll stay together since she inspires that kind of devotion.

Calpurnia

'Stand by your partner' is her motto. Feeling like being Emperor? No problem. She will support you! She'll also finance your date and take you to a public festival to show off your relationship. (Watch out for nearly naked men with crowns.) If she happens to have a weird dream, just listen to her, okay?

Servilia Caepionis

She will take you to a remote, romantic place with candles and gauzy curtains. Dinner AND breakfast will be in bed. The conversation is stimulating, she's beautiful and intelligent, and she knows all the best gossip in town. She will send love notes to your Senate meetings/workplace during the day.

Fulvia Flacca Bambula

She tends to prefer handsome individuals, but once she's loyal to you, she'll be your Ride or Die. (And she doesn't care who has to die to get what you both deserve.) Date wise, Fulvia would enjoy something active and exciting. Take her to a sporting event, a Ninja Warrior competition, an escape room, or go on a hike. She'd love to follow that with a sumptuous dinner and the severed heads of your enemies laid before you in time to enjoy dessert.

Livia Drusilla

Much like Fulvia, this woman is an ideal partner for those who want power. Unlike Fulvia, she's subtle about it. Livia is clever, influential, and could be the perfect politician's wife. Due to her work ethic, she could use a relaxing spa date that includes a massage. Don't worry, the poisoning thing is only a rumor. (And doesn't everyone deserve better than Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus?)

Octavia Minor

An absolute sweetheart, she is the kindest of the bunch and "a marvel of womankind." Octavia loves the arts, so heading to an art museum, a play, or even a poetry reading would be appreciated. This woman will literally go to the ends of the earth for you--including Athens after you finish a terrible military campaign. She's the complete package, but keep two things in mind. One: she comes with children and most likely will adopt more. Two: she also comes with her brother Octavian/Augustus as a possible new in-law.

Porcia Catonis Brutus

Affectionate and intelligent, she's a deeply loyal choice. She will remind you of your good qualities and keep you on the correct path so long as you trust her with your burdens. She will even support your need for a political assassination. Her ideal date may actually be a masquerade ball. You get to dress up, dance, wear masks, and it would really be a perfect time for a side meeting of similarly inclined couples. (Possibly Junia Tertia could come with her partner, for instance.)

Clodia Metelli

Her ideal date involves listening to you read her poetry and then a nice picnic outside. She enjoys discussing philosophy as well as every political player in town. She's charming and experienced, just don't expect it to last or you'll end up like Catullus.

Cleopatra VII Thea Philopater

Her charm is famous throughout multiple lands and her wisdom and prowess equally lauded. Not only is she a brilliant politician, she is interested in science, the arts, and can speak over seven languages. Cleo is an amazing partner and her love is worthy of fighting a civil war over. Seriously. As far as dates, she would enjoy a scenic, luxury cruise on the river. Just beware that once you have her in your life, you will be unwilling to live without her.

Julia the Elder/Julia Caesaris filia

She is a very passionate woman who loves literature, culture, and a good nightlife. If you take her on a date, expect to either go for a night of pub crawling or to a fancy cocktail party complete with glittering outfits. Julia wants a good time, but her kindness and empathy are famous, as are her quick wit and rebellious ways. She is worthy of getting yourself exiled or worse over.

Type of post originated by @just-late-roman-republic-things

So many wonderful women to choose from, it was difficult! I just didn't want to have too many choices... Maybe a part two? Junia Tertia, Tullia, Pompeia, Atia, Julia Antonia, Attica are just a few others I wanted to include.

Please reblog if you want and definitely vote for the girl bosses.

[p-clodius-pulcher]

Fulvia clodia insane sisters in law yuri can anyone hear me the underlying resentment even though they like each other, the unspoken competition, they would share body warmed jewlery can anyone hear me

[myfanfictiongarden]

You ever start to watch something that is advertised and praised as being “historically accurate”, even is so in many parts, but then one thing is just so insanely wrong that you sit there blank faced thinking WTH?

Well, I started watching Rome (because I’m a sucker for history and because Bruno Heller worked on it) and seven episodes in I’m mostly enjoying it, a lot of things are great, the actors, characters, sets, costumes, historic context,… but then I go check out on Wikipedia what is known about Octavian’s mother Atia- a character thats delightful to hate so far- and guess my shock when discovering she was the absolute opposite of what is presented in the show. 

Freaking why? Why change a historic character to be the complete opposite of how it was? Next you gonna tell me Mussolini had nothing to do with the Fascist movement and wanted actually to be a classical painter in Verona. Yes, this may be an extreme example, but if HBO is allowed the spread bs why shouldn’t I be too?

Wanna know what the official reasoning was? They wanted to “draw significant influences from other Roman women from the same time period, such as the infamous Clodia, and Marc Antony’s wife, Fulvia.”

Came me crazy, but why not just feature Fulvia then? She was alive and married to Marc Antony at the time the show takes place, why not have her involved? Watching the show you really wonder how Octavian and his sister achieved such noble greatness with a mother like that and then you read some facts and realise that the actual Atia would have brought up such great characters.

Here’s what they should have done:

Instead of having Servilia of the Junii (mother of the famous Brutus) as a recurring character, have Fulvia take that role more prominently and switch her “villainous” role with Atia, who now would become the quiet, well educated & mannered woman she was. Fulvia, as wife of Marc Antony, would often spend her days in Atia´s house- given that Atia is a niece of Caesar and the whole family is in favour of him. Caesar and Marc Antony may be best-buddies right now, but given that Antony is not always the brightest and the fact that Atia is also in good favour with supporters of the Republic makes it important for Fulvia to be on good terms with her. Fulvia would then be the one who would comment that Octavian reads too much and is getting too much of an “feminine aura” because of it, she would volunteer to hire Titus as a tutor for Octavian to teach what makes a “real man”. Because she would play her cards as much as she could she would try to catch Caesar’s eye on the party Atia was throwing in his hour, only to be ignored for Servillia (with whom we would see him spend the night with) and angered about that it would be Fulvia who would give in work those tasteless graffiti, wishing to cut away all outside influents from the most powerful man in Rome. In this case it would also have been Fulvia´s personal slave who would have witnessed Caesar’s seasure and seeing Octavian and Caesar “together” brought those news right back to her mistress who immediately would have tried to use that to her advantage only to be disappointed that it wasn’t like that, but suddenly inspired that- if she can’t seduce Caesar- she’ll seduce young Octavian- Caesar’s favourite & adopted son.

Meanwhile we would have still seen Marc Antony enjoy his time with other women, yet always come back to his wife because she was so cunning and ambitious- it would have played perfectly into the fact that he later fell in love with Cleopatra, for while Fulvia knew how to play the game Cleopatra knew it better. 

Fulvia would also have been the one to pursue Atia to make Octavia divorce her husband because with the politic situation it wouldn’t have been “good for the family” to be associated with him- and to that extend for her.

See? We could have gotten an ambitious, cunning, strong female character and still have it historically accurate!

[catilinas]

Can you recommend any non-fiction books about roman history for someone looking to get a little bit deeper into it?

yeah! do also check my book rec tag because ive probably answered something similar to this at Some point. also bear in mind this is specific to the roman republic (and tbh mostly the late republic) because i just do not care. like rome kept happening but who Give a shit. look at it. it's got emperors. anyway

a companion to the roman republic ed. nathan rosenstein and robert morstein-marx and the cambridge companion to the roman republic ed. harriet i. flower are both absolutely massive and full of v good introductions to a variety of topics! get basic understanding of a thing! nice!

some specific Books I Like on individual topics: the rise of rome: from the iron age to the punic wars by kathryn lomas covers the earliest roman Anything up to the third century And grounds that history in the context of what was going on in the rest of italy at the time. roman republics by harriet i. flower is about different ways of periodising the history of the republic(s?) and in doing so gives a good overview of major changes to the political system. party politics in the age of caesar by lily ross taylor is Quite Old but imo still holds up as an introduction at least.

you could also consider Picking A Guy and reading a biography. love it when a life is put into the context of wider history while also existing as a more coherent narrative on which to pin that history. some that are fun are sulla: the last republican by arthur keaveney, the patrician tribune by w. jeffrey tatum about clodius pulcher (the introduction is also suchhhhhh a good summary of 'party' politics and why that's not a great way to think about it!), clodia metelli: the tribune's sister by marilyn b. skinner about clodius' sister who was maybe also lesbia from catullus' poetry, cato the younger: life and death at the end of the republic by fred k. drogula, fulvia: playing for power at the end of the roman republic by celia e. schultz (i have been meaning to read this one lol), and brutus: the noble conspirator by kathryn tempest.

my anti-recommendation is rubicon by tom holland No i have not read it Yes i think it sucks. L + i have been shown excerpts of the bad prose + the republic had fallen apart way before caesar crossed the rubicon + the author has a whole bunch of bad takes + read attis (1996) instead

[perditaiuventus]

i just downloaded 10 different academic books and i don’t know which one to read…. 5 of them are about Antony (3 biographies, 2 analyses of his portrayal and reception) but i’m still reading a biography of Antony & Cleopatra (the one by Goldsworthy). the others are on Agrippa, Fulvia, Clodia, Clodius, and Brutus. and i still need to download books on Caesar and/or on Octavian. i want to read everything at the same time

[porciaenjoyer]

omg as my new rometual and fellow clodius apologist (he’s my favorite guy because what is he even doing ever he’s like the silliest guy in the world to me) i’m kicking my legs and twirling my hair do you have thoughts on his little political faction (him caelius antony curio fulvia clodia et al) because i think they’re soooo silly they would be literally insufferable to try and interact with <3

HELLO ROMEUTUAL my thoughts are essentially just that i <3 them all and find them endlessly entertaining. especially how theyre all enemies of cicero .. as someone who takes pleasure in shit talking cicero for no good reason i support that! in addition to being a clodiusliker i’m also a clodia apologist forever and ever i truly in my heart and soul dont believe the accusations. dont get me started on antony btw because i wont stop talking ever hes too silly and im giggling twirling my hair et cetera. anyway if you ever want to talk about clodius clodia antony curio fulvia caelius (Aka the strangest beasts to ever roam the earth) HMU theyre so goofy. to me

[enlitment]

List of Historical Figures that Live in My Mind Rent-free [non-exhaustive]:

✨ Enlightenment Era:

Denis Diderot

Émilie du Châtelet

Voltaire

Frederick the Great

Jean d'Alembert

Jean-Jacques Rousseau (or more at tw: JJ)

Julie de Lespinasse

Bernard Mandeville

Angelica Kauffman

🇫🇷 French Revolution:

Camille Desmoulins

Lucile Desmoulins

Maximilien Robespierre

Jean-Paul Marat

Simonne Évrard

honorary revolutionary:

Stanisława Przybyszewska

🏛️ Ancient Rome:

Marcus Junius Brutus

Gaius Valerius Catullus

Fulvia

Clodia Metelli

Publius Clodius Pulcher

🎨 Italian Renaissance:

Dante Alighieri

Niccolò Machiavelli

Caterina Sfroza

Ascanio Sforza

[woodsteingirl]

hiii i'm bored so i'm sending you an ask.. how are you today <33 um do you have any thoughts on roman lesbians because now i'm thinking about them after your posts. personally if i were an ancient roman i don't know what i'd do but i would decidedly NOT marry some guy... ALSO did you know about the coups/military interventions in turkey in 1960, 1971, and 1980. thinking about those today (<- doing a project)

HI HI HIIIII <3 my thoughts ARE ovid did sooo much for lesbians because all the rest of the mentions of them are so so bad it made me 2000 years later feel genuinely sick. so he is the number one lesbian ally to me. i also think clodia deserves to have affairs with women liek catullus calls her. lesbia i think she deserves to be a little gay. i also think fulvia should also have girlfriends. because if antony has whatever he has going on with curio she should likewise get to have a deeply homoerotic friendship et cetera et cetera. i also don’t know what i would do….. tee bee aych i feel like i would die really early on but maybe i could have a weird sapphic friendship with someone first im not sure. also i did not know about that omg…..

[p-clodius-pulcher]

If Cicero was on tumblr he’d make a post like:

Happy Valentine’s Day to clodius and clodia. I mean fulvia.

[lesbianshepard]

Cornelia:

Mother of the Gracchi brothers! Highly intelligent and influential woman who educated her sons and helped shape their political careers. OG Roman MILF

Clodia

Catullus' "Lesbia" Wealthy and highly educated woman who had a talent for poetry (none survives :( ) Cicero hated her and called her "the Medea of the Palatine" (huge W for Clodia) Known for taking many lovers and accused of incest with her own brother (Catullus did not take the breakup well)

Fulvia

The first (real) woman to appear on Roman coinage. Married to Marc Antony (her third husband) and very involved in politics. Cassius Dio wrote "the following year Publius Servilius and Lucius Antonius nominally became consuls, but in reality it was Antonius and Fulvia. She, the mother-in‑law of Octavian and wife of Antony, had no respect for Lepidus because of his slothfulness, and managed affairs herself, so that neither the senate nor the people transacted any business contrary to her pleasure." Plutarch wrote "Fulvia wished to rule a ruler and command a commander and she schooled Antony to obey women." (marc antony is into femdom he's just like me fr fr) Acted as both a political and military leader.

Agrippina the Younger:

One of the most powerful of the Julio-Claudian women and a big influence on behind the scenes politics. Mother of Nero by her first husband. Was exiled for a conspiracy to assassinate her brother Caligula, but later returned. May have poisoned her second husband in order to marry the Emperor Claudius. She was the one to convince Claudius to name Nero heir, instead of Claudius' own son. May have poisoned Claudius in order to make Nero emperor. Ruthless, ambitious, and domineering #girlboss. Fave moment was when Nero engineered a boat designed to sink specifically to assassinate her. She swam to shore, realized her shitty son had tried to kill her (again), and wrote a letter to him letting him know that she had survived a terrible accident by divine fortune.

Messelina

Third wife of Claudius and hugely influential, directly responsible for the execution of several people and tried to get young Nero assassinated so that her own son would have the throne. Hated Agrippina for obvious reasons. Executed for a conspiracy to assassinate Claudius. Pliny wrote a famous (and certainly fake) story of her challenging a famous prostitute to see who could sleep with the most men in one night. (Messalina won at 25)

Julia the Elder:

Augustus once famously remarked that he had two difficult daughters: Rome and Julia. Married off by her father several times, all for political reasons. Clashed with her controlling father on many occasions about her spending, behavior, etc. Augustus passed laws making adultery a crime and then had to exile her for adultery (after killing and exiling her lovers) She was popular with the Roman people, who petitioned for her recall from exile, and was known for her kindness, intelligence, and wit. She never returned to Rome, and died in exile.

Livia:

Wife of Augustus and first Roman empress. One of, if not the, the most powerful and influential women in the early Roman Empire. iirc she was the first woman to be deified. Cassius Dio wrote "Livia was destined to hold in her lap even Caesar's power and to dominate him in everything."

Hortensia

A skilled orator, best known for her public speech given in the forum in protest of a tax put on women to fund the civil war after the assassination of Caesar. She was successful, reducing the number of women taxed down to 400, with new taxes on men being levied to make up the difference. (Using this image of a fresco from Pompeii because there's, surprisingly, no art I can find of her from a google search)

Empress Theodora

Byzantine empress. She was the daughter of a bear trainer and an actress, and worked as an actress and prostitute in her youth. Married the Emperor Justinian and became his advisor, preforming jobs that were usually only done by the emperor (receiving envoys and corresponding with foreign rulers) and helped pass laws for women's rights.

[catilinas]

a relationship can be you, your wife, and the ghost of your wife’s sexy murdered demagogue first husband