#Dean Factor

[shannendoherty-fans]

A Christmas gift

Lovely Yvonne sent me some 1990s Shannen clippings that I'll be sharing here little by little.

This undated one, from Ca. late 1993/early 1994 is from when Shannen Doherty, Tori Spelling and their boyfriends Dean Factor and Nick Savalas spent the weekend at the Cabo Wabo rock'n'roll club in the tiny resort of Cabo San Lucas in Mexico.

The actresses went on the stage wirh rockers Sammy Hagar and Stephen Stills in this rock'n'roll club owned by the heavy metal band Van Halen.

[inalandofsadclowns]

And that's when Dean knew for certain...

...they're talking about Cas.

[humandisorderincarnatedean]

what I would love is just. acknowledgement that what dean did in hell and the fact he adapted to enjoy it wasn’t something he chose to do in any way. that choosing to do sth is not the same as being tortured into it. i know the show’d never have done that it was too busy doing other stuff. idk i’d just have liked SOMEONE to mention it instead of holding dean responsible for it like it was just... any other bad decision someone made. a mistake, like taking on the mark or trusting gadreel. it’s not a mistake dean made, it was a survival tactic

[thefableddestiel]

I truly love the fact that Jensen loves Dean so much. It’s amazing seeing actors love a character as much as we do.

But what I don’t love, is I feel like he has tunnel vision with Dean. He’s so caught up in the way that he’s intending to portray the character when he acts, that he disregards the way it’s actually being perceived by the audience, as if his intention is all that matters.

Like yeah, I get that you didn’t “play him that way [as in love with Cas]” But art is subjective and interpretive and regardless of what you intended, your audience is telling you that Dean is reading as very much in love with Castiel.

Also, your acting isn’t the only factor here. It’s the music choices, the cinematography, the setting, the editing, the writing. It is the result of everything. You not “playing him that way” does not have more weight than all of these things put together.

[stellaluna33]

Ok, so here's one of MY unpopular Gilmore Girls opinions: I don't believe that Rory only stayed with Dean to keep everyone else (including her mother) happy. I don't. I think she did love him IN SOME WAY. Was she "IN Love" with him? It's hard to say. But she genuinely cared about him, enjoyed his company enough to want to be friends with him after breaking up, and... I do think there were some aspects of their relationship that she genuinely liked and wasn't sure she wanted to give up. I know a lot of people hate Dean (I'm not fond of him myself), but this isn't about MY preferences or YOUR preferences, it's about RORY'S, and when I look at the actual show without filtering it through my own wishes, that's what it looks like to me, especially given the way she kept comparing Dean to Jess after she started dating him. Rory wouldn't have done that unless there were parts of that relationship she missed! According to what Rory herself said, she LIKED the way Dean made her feel cared for and important. Even his jealousy and clinginess, which did bother her, could be explained away because they were "symptoms" of how "important" she was to him! He WANTED her! He wanted her more than Rory wanted him, actually, and sometimes? Sometimes that's an intoxicating thing, especially when you HAVEN'T always felt wanted. He made plans and took her out and made her feel "spoiled" (Rory's words!), and that made her feel special! She may not have been "in love" with him in a grand, all-consuming, passionate kind of way, but she liked "being his girlfriend" a lot of the time.

This is why I think she wavered so much when she did fall in love with Jess. Because despite the things she would gain from choosing Jess (the all-consuming, passionate kind of love, deep connection and companionship), she would be giving up (and hurting!) someone she felt a lot of affection for! And also giving up the ease of dependability, familiarity, and yes, someone who fit neatly into the life and relationships she already had. I think she was almost prepared to do so when Jess moved back to Stars Hollow "for her," but when he appeared to move on so quickly with Shane, it made her doubt whether Jess wanted her as much as she wanted him, and that felt dangerous. Why give up someone who clearly DID want her, to chase after someone who might not?

Yeah, anyway... I feel like I've wandered a bit, but the bottom line is: I really do think it was only a little bit about pleasing her mom, and a lot to do with how Dean was good at making her feel wanted, even if it was to a toxic degree.

[unforth]

Prefacing this TGCF post with: people can draw and write however they want forever and I support them and this is about my personal view of these characters.

Anyway.

I saw a post today that had Xie Lian singing "when will my life begin" from Tangled and it drove home what really bugs me about a lot of fan casts of Hualian onto popular media (see also my Howl's Moving Castle take). It's this idea that Xie Lian is, well, waiting for his life to begin, and Hua Cheng swoops in and makes it exciting, when this is imo so utterly antithetical, and in fact opposite, to canon.

Xie Lian has lived and lived and lived. He was a prince, he fought in wars, even during his 800 years fallen the whole book is an exercise in showing that he WASN'T just waiting around, he kept doing things the whole time - Fang Xin Guoshi and General Hua and and and. AND he also cultivated to the point of ascending again. Xie Lian is a fucking bad ass idealistic martyr who doesn't know when to quit and at least to me that's the whole point of his character and I love that about and for him so to see him inserted into existing franchise AUs as the wilting flower waiting for a moment to shine is utter character erasure and it makes me insane enough that I'm writing this post about it even though I think I shouldn't and even though I genuinely don't want to rain on anyone's fandom parade. But like. That's not him!

You know who it is?

It's Hua Cheng!

Hong Hong'er lives in Xianle, a kingdom where all this stuff is happening, and he just watches from the sidelines. He's an observer at the parade. He's just some kid. And then he falls (or jumps, or is pushed, you pick your interpretation) and he's caught by literally the coolest guy in the entire kingdom. He's the nobody who gets swept off his feet! And it changes his whole life! Like I think it wouldn't irk me so much to see Xie Lian get typecast that way if Hua Cheng wasn't right there literally living his "I met God and it changed my whole life for the better" fantasy. He seriously deserves to get recognized for this. I get that he's the loud flamboyant one so that makes it seem like he should get cast as a Howl or a Flynn or whoever, but like. He was waiting for his life to begin, and it does, when he meets Xie Lian.

And like. I get that these are kinda competing interpretations that depend on when you look at canon - I'm looking at the original 800 years ago events, others are looking at Hua Cheng coming in 800 years later - but still the "present" in TGCF isn't imo about Xie Lian having waited to be saved, he hasn't been in a hat shop for his whole life boredly making hats, he's never stopped moving and never stopped adventuring and never stopped striving to change the world. Hua Cheng is living out his "you saved me now I save you" fantasies but fundamentally they save each other over and over and over again and that's beautiful and I hate seeing it erased to make Xie Lian into the wilting flower. Like. The one who basically hasn't done anything that whole 800 years is ALSO Hua Cheng. We don't hear about him going off and having idealistic adventures. Everything we know of that he's done was directly related to Xie Lian (ie burning the temples). Other than that he seems to sit around in Ghost City chilling with his ghoulies. So again, finding Xie Lian is what pulls him out of his funk and prompts him to start acting for good, whereas Xie Lian has been acting for good the whole time.

Ugh. I should shut up now, just, I've been in this fandom for four years and this has become such a pet peeve of mine because it reflects such a huge disconnect between how I perceive these characters and how much of the rest of fandom does. And that frustrates me, cause I wish there was more content in line with my perception.

[locke-esque-monster]

There's something about re-watching the Gordon Walker episodes of SPN when you realize: "Gordon was a kind of right about Sam Winchester."

Or at the very least, he was just a little early to "Sam is a problem" party. Like a math problem where you did the work all wrong but somehow still got to the right answer.

Logistically, I can see why the writers decided to have Gordon's character written off at the time. The show can only have so many ongoing antagonists at once, especially in what turned out to be an abbreviated season. But I can only think what a missed opportunity it would have been to have him around in season 5. Remember how he reacted to thinking Sam was the one who opened the Devil's Gate let a shit-ton of demons out? Or how he reacted to finding out Sam was one of the YED's special children with powers? Imagine how he'd react to:

Sam allying himself with a demon

Drinking demon blood that gave Sam power over demons

Sam killing a woman to drink her blood

Sam sleeping with a demon

Sam accidentally letting out Lucifer from the cage and starting the apocalypse

Sam being Lucifer's vessel

Would Gordon have been absolutely insufferable with "I told you so"s and a be major problem for our boys (on top of the apocalypse)? Absolutely. But it would have had some interesting dynamics to explore.

[kingofthewilderwest]

If the live-action HTTYD does end up being bad, how is it going to affect our view on Dean as a person?

Personally, I believe folks shouldn't tangle their opinions of Dean into the HTTYD live action. Or get tangled too deeply into opinions about Dean, tbh. Below are my thoughts in too many words. ^.^

It will be what it will be, the product of hundreds of workers on a project likely initiated out of trend. And that's the nature of making movies. You're hired. It's making art, but you're also hired, and that's not a bad thing. That's a normal thing and that's how things get made. Work doesn't exist in a platonic cave. We aren't working with Perfect Ideas; we're working with what's available to us.

It doesn't make a creator more pure, more corrupt, more guided, more tumultuous, more inspired, less inspired, more of a sell-out, more greedy, less greedy, more successful, less successful, if they are part of one project that wasn't conceived out of the deepest emotions possible. It means they're like every person on the planet who enters the occupation of artist.

The idea of an artist as the independent owner and free-moving agent of all their ideas isn't reality most of the time when it's your occupation. When you are in a fortuitous situation, you may be able to tap into your deepest desires and hopes and passions and inspirations. And that's fantastic! But that's not the baseline. Fortuitous situations are the aberration. We make do with a less-than-platonic idea the high majority of times, and that's fine. I shouldn't be judging a creator only by the points in time where they got to fly in rare situations - and expect them to only exist in those spaces.

I am just as much of an artist when I am writing an assigned essay for a grade in school as I am writing an original work on my own. In fact, sometimes the assigned essay, even if I don't like the concept, ends up the better product. Other times, it won't be the best product; but the nature of things is sometimes I have to do what I can and what I can will look different on different days and on different projects. That's okay. That doesn't change anything about the nature of being a creator.

Dean isn't a deity, Dean isn't a more highly elevated being existing on a plane above my head, and I don't think I should let my opinion of Dean be swayed so quickly and easily. I probably shouldn't have a strong opinion on Dean since he's someone I haven't met. He's a regular guy with strengths and weaknesses like us all, and I should probably approach him with the level-headness that I will see strengths and weaknesses. If I learn about a new weakness? I should be able to levelly acknowledge that and accept that that's to be expected. And on the flipside, it likely means I should keep respecting him for his good, too.

But I do know he's someone who, like me, by the nature of having a job, works on opened projects - some that have more potential than others; some that have more heart than others; some that the creator feels more inspired by than others - and I don't mind. If I do start to mind, it might say more about me and how I think than it says anything about the person external.

Dean was involved in some of my favorite movies. That fact won't change. It was sorta inevitable someone like Dean would've been brought back for the LA...... I don't "hold that against him," even if I am very intentionally not following news on it and you won't see me in theatres on its release. I won't even look up reviews of it in the news or its trailer. It is what it is, and the good facts of life will remain, too.

[ananke-xiii]

Welcome home, pal.

I'll never be normal about these two. Them and their frigging ET references.

[dotthings]

Andrew Dabb wrote both of these:

Dean: And you told me yourself that you see a way out. You see a light at the end of this ugly-ass tunnel. I don't. But I tell you what I do know – it's that I'm gonna die with a gun in my hand. 'Cause that's what I have waiting for me – that's all I have waiting for me. I want you to get out. I want you to have a life – become a man of Letters, whatever. You, with a wife and kids and – and – and grandkids, living till you're fat and bald and chugging Viagra – that is my perfect ending, and it's the only one that I'm gonna get.

8.14, Trial and Error *

Dean: You, me, Cas, toes in the sand, couple of them little umbrella drinks. Matching Hawaiian shirts, obviously. Some hula girls.

Sam: You talking about retiring? You?

Dean: If I knew the world was safe? Hell, yeah. And you know why? 'Cause we freaking earned it, man.

13.23 Let the Good Times Roll

And yet people wonder why I thought Dean was going to subvert his own outdated grim self-prophecy, when canon showed growth and development on his arc toward hope.

Like.

That 2nd speech happened. It's canon. And Dean grew over the course of the series.

I did not pull that hope out of my ass because I don't "get" SPN.

Dabb and Singer set their trap and I ate the cheese and they sprung the trap. Perhaps the hope was there just to make it hurt worse, to make us feel (because sometimes creatives lose sight of the fact there is more than one way to make people feel) when that grim prophecy got fulfilled instead of being overturned.

Anyway Dean's story isn't over. *raises glass* Here's to the revival. No, I don't expect any retcons. Heaven storyline's not going away. But something more fulfilling than what aired for the series finale, I can go for that.

[shannendoherty-fans]

December 4, 1992 - Shannen Doherty, Lebanese film producer Elie Samaha and Julian Lennon during the Grand Opening of Club Shelter in Pasadena, California, United States. She attended with her boyfriend Dean Factor (can be seen in one of the transparencies).

[shallowseeker]

Re: the latest string of anons, I want to capture this thought before it flees, but it's not wholly formed yet. I'll try to tread carefully, and with gentleness.

Firstly, I want to invite you to grab onto this line from The Rupture:

CAS: "You used to give me the benefit of the doubt. Now, you can barely look at me."

You can take this lovely line and apply it as a challenge to the entirety of season 15, I think.

The thing with season 15 is that it challenges Dean in a way he hasn't quite been before: it's a full-on, nihilistic, Michael-coded existential crisis.

Cas has had psychological breakdowns like this on multiple occasions. So has Sam.

Throughout the series, Dean is wrong a lot, but this time, he's wrong about more things than usual, even when he's (like Cas with Raphael, and like Sam with many villains) still "a little bit right."

Everyone's a little bit wrong, a little bit right, and that's the beauty of it.

But the consequences are unfairly heavier than usual, and that chafes for Dean.

It chafes for his fans, too.

///

In season 15, at first Dean can't even say Jack's name. He sidesteps it, using coded communication, like his reference to "Bel" in 15x09 The Trap. (That's about Jack, y'all. If you tuly think he's talking about Bel in that scene, then you haven't been paying attention to Dean's character's values OR his communication style.)

I think at a lot of its core, Season 15 is asking you what happens when you're not spoon-fed a character's reactions. Do you look at their history and take the least charitable assumption, or do you work from what you know of that character's loves/morals/values and root for them to try and work through it?

Throughout the series, we see Dean cry and apologize more than most characters. For example, we are explicitly shown Dean's regret (on-screen!) for beating Cas in season 10, and so we know he feels guilty. On the flipside, we are NOT explicitly shown Cas's regrets for his beating on Dean in either seasons 5 or season 8.

But we give Cas the benefit of the doubt.

Why?

Well, truthfully, it's because Cas is a character that commands our respect, and this authority/respect extends to giving him dignity in a way some other characters aren't afforded. But mostly, it's because we trust in what we know of Cas. Again, it's those loves/morals/values that inform how we parse Cas's mistakes.

///

So, back to season 15. What are we going to do here?

Sam chooses grace. Will the audience choose it, too?

Crucially, Sam is a character who has had nervous breakdown after nervous breakdown. He sees what is happening with Dean, he understands Chuck's pressures, and he approaches Dean with (imperfect) grace.

So does Cas, for that matter, which makes a great deal of sense here. Cas is the character who has undergone the most severe existential crises regarding Chuck and Heaven. "Getting out of the game doesn't change the game," Cas says. He's grown tremendous, somewhat terrifying resilience as far as this is concerned.

But anyway. Dean's family sees that he's struggling and tries to help him through this because they too have gone through so many complicated meltdowns.

///

I think season 15 is tough, too, because it challenges you not to be spoon-fed all of Dean's grief and reactions.

Think back to Dean breaking down in the forest clearing after Mary died. Do you REALLY think there was none of that for Jack--for Rowena--for Jack's body being eradicated and ruining the hope of getting him back--for Cas leaving--for Amara--for the Jack rib-bomb?

I think to say yes would be dishonest. Personally, I think there's a well-argued case that Dean grieves almost everyone.

///

Season 15 is also tough because it invites to look upon some of Sam's worst moments (*cough* season 8) with renewed grace.

It even challenges you to frame the villains' struggles (John, Lucifer, and whoever the Hell else) in a stronger shade of gray.

///

Anon, I hope you find this soothing somewhat. :-)

Basically, the TLDR; is that we give our loved ones the benefit of the doubt because we've grown to know and trust their hearts over time, even when they're in the wrong.

-love from shal

[chitaquahq]

Biggest difference between Endverse Dean and Dean is that Endverse Dean might have way more experience living on that universe— but if there is one single weapon on the battlefield, you can bet Dean will find it and use it.

When it comes to the heart of it, Endverse Dean needed a weapon, he needed someone to be his weapon or a physical object, he needed an army because he stopped believing in himself. He was defeated, he wanted to go back in time and give himself to Michael, he put all his faith on the Colt.

In contrast, Dean is a weapon. His actions have repercussions that change the story because he has a choice and that choice matters. He trusted his judgement when he said that there must be another way, one that didn't involve saying yes to Michael. When the Colt failed him, when Sam said yes to Lucifer, Dean went to a battlefield without a weapon. Cas and Bobby only gave him time, so Dean could fall on his knees and talk to his brother until it gave Sam the strength to cage Lucifer.

He did that with words alone.

When Cas met Dean, he thought he had no faith. It isn't quite true, it's just that his faith is not on some god or bug plan. Dean's faith is impossible to escape, it's all consuming and empowering, it's a world on its own. Dean believes in Sam, in Cas, in Bobby. Then he arrived to the Endverse and he deployed that faith in Chitaqua and Ichabod.

Incredibly fucking dangerous because he knows he only need one chance and it'll be over. One slip, one opening: that's how he killed Zachariah. Bring a weapon and he'll find it. Give him the 0.0001% chance of winning and he will.

Compared to Endverse Dean (the end of the road and the lost of purpose), Dean is the embodiment of possibilities. Not because those opportunities are granted to him, but because he'd craft them out of thin air if necessary.

[kermit-coded]

i just realized that ricstar is what destiel could've been if the spn writers didn't suck absolute ass. normal guy (relatively) with daddy issues and a score to settle meets otherworldly warrior running from his creators and who can teleport and doesn't understand pop culture and they are besties. but the writers let ricstar kiss on panel. cas just got sent to superhell.

[soullessjack]

hi im tired and in a teeny bit of pain and I’m fed up with jack being used to fix and absolve dean so heres them mutually getting their shit together like they actually should okay goodnight send tweet

[wigglebox]

Sometimes I remember people actively think Dean represses his feelings about anything and is always angry tho but then I remember people from his surrogate father to his historical hero across the board have told him to basically “man up” and stop crying about shit and stop complaining.