#DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PRESENTS
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a development has been made within the marching band and i will now have "all i want for christmas is you" stuck in my head until at least november
don't do this to me, mariah
i beg of you
all i want for christmas is not to have that song in my head
#christmas all year#placing bets on what month i'll lose my mind in#ooOoooohohh IIIIII DONT WANT A LOT FOR CHRISTMAS#THERE IS JUST ONE THING I NEEEDDDD#AND I#DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PRESENTS#UNDERNEATH THE CHRISTMAS TREE...
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NO MORE ASSOCIATING THINGS WITH FEMMES ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE PINK!HYPERFEM FEMMES ARE GREAT AND I LOVE YOU CAMPY FEMMES WHO EMBODY PINK BUT ALSO JESUS CHRIST CAN YOU GUYS NOT GO MORE THAN ONE DAY W/O TRYING TO SHOEHORN FEMMES INTO BEING ONLY PINK UWU BABIES. I AM FEMME AS IN GRASS AS IN DIRT AS IN TREE BARK AS IN WEEDS SPROUTING THROUGH THE SIDEWALK CEMENT. FEMME AS IN GENDER NONCONFORMITY AS IN FUCK YOU MY FEMININITY IS WHAT *I* SAY IT IS. FEMME AS IN DEPTH AND DARKNESS AND WARMTH AND TERROR. FEMME AS IN CAVES. FEMME AS IN LIGHTNING. FEMME AS IN AN AMALGAMATION OF TRAITS THAT I HAVE DECIDED ARE FEMININE REGARDLESS OF WHAT SOCIETY SAYS. FUCK IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!???
#personal#i am emotional yes#over the years ive had this blog I've made a few posts abt being femme#nd whether they're serious or jokey..... inevitably someone in the tags goes “ohhh yeah bc pink”#or in the case of what inspired this post: someone going “what about the pink ones” on my praying mantis post#and im just.#sick of it. im sick of femme being equated to pink and frilly girlie behaviors.#im sick of femme being equated to skirts and heels. to makeup. to skincare. to pristine nails exactly almond shaped.#im sick of ppl acting like All femmes aspire to this shit. im sick of femms being reduced to this shit.#and i love pink! i love pink! my phone theme is quite literally just black and pink all over.#im just. so tired of any expression of Femme identity being shoehorned into being a Specific type of femininity#especially as someone who DOES get dysphoric wearing skirts. wearing dresses. embodying the femme aesthetic yall are so set on making#if u guys wanna rb this i truly dont care#i just needed to scream#and this is one small thing#but the 2nd largest category of anon hate i have gotten since making this blog is str8 up homophobia from other “queer” folks#saying i cant be femme bc of how i present. calling me slurs (and using them as such) bc they cant understand femme as anything but that#my wife and i have our users in our personal discord server set as 2 different things of anon hate ive gotten#i have had OTHER FEMMES tell me i am not femme. femmes who Know im femme who still call me butch. femmes who ive corrected and been blocked#-by bc of it. the number 1 largest demographic of queerfolk who have me blocked rn is TME femmes who embody pink also#and i dont think its a coincidence at all. (and i know this bc i go to try and follow these ppl bc they get rbed on my dash & i cant)#and ik their blogs arent deleted bc some of them don't block my wife (tall. white. butch) and it cant be politics cause her and i rb#a lot of the same political shit (fuck. i think she rbs More than i do even. this is genuinely mainly a nsft blog)#and usually i don't say anything but im having a bad day so i get to be angry about this and if anyone fucking tries me i will block u#idc if we've been mutuals 4ever. im judt so tired of feeling like i am not Enough as a femme bc i dont embody this shit#im sick of this lameass lip service to he/him gnc femmes etc when the thin white 50s housewife femme is still what is preferred and loved#im sick of this lamesss lip service when y'all feel entitled to theorizing on other femmes genders bc u cant conceptualize a femme who does#wanna be hypetfeminine. im sick of it. im sick of it. im sick of it.#celebrity bun
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Faiza performing the Kagnoma Odo (pretty literally 'lion dance'), a weapons dance and one of the more important ritual duties of Odonii priestesses. A relatively new addition to this traditional dance involves the musket as the primary weapon, which is fired mid-twirl into the ground at the climax of the dance. Faiza is experiencing an 'oh fuck' moment because her shot is more than ideally diagonal, but she’s being so cool with it.
This is a wholly ceremonial performance at the onset of the pilgrimage, performed in full regalia and lion skin (of the small, semi-domesticated strain) but no armor. It’s also distinctly a display of political allegiance between the powerful and beloved Odonii priesthood (and its loyal military) with the increasingly reviled and destabilized imperial family, with Faiza prominently wearing a bracelet of the royal serpent, which was gifted (along with the musket) by the usoma Stavis Amanti himself (Usoma is the Wardi word for king, which has been retained in the context of emperors).
The Kagnoma Odo is the ultimate demonstration of the Odonii as an embodiment of the Lion Face of God and living vessel of military might and sovereignty, demonstrating her fitness and proficiency with weapons and as a spiritual unifier for soldiers. It is accompanied by drumming and occurs in stages, running through the three keymost weapons used in war- the spear, the sword, and the musket. The musket is of the most significance, given the weapon has developed a particular esteem as the ultimate embodiment of might and superiority. Assistants (almost always other priestesses, occasionally high ranking soldiers) load and prime the musket to be fired at the climax of the dance, where it is shot into the ground as the priestess leaps out of range of the shot. The firing signals the end of the dance and the rite itself.
While not the utmost exemplar of trigger discipline, only fully inducted and senior (and therefore very thoroughly trained) Odonii are permitted to perform the dance, and injuries during actual performances are quite rare (though are known to occur during training, more than a few Odonii have burns and wounds on their feet).
The most important renditions of this dance are performed upon declarations of war and before battles (in this case, generally done in full armor along with the lion pelt). It is also done during some trainings (while a dance, it is carefully choreographed to include naturalistic maneuvers of the weapons involved and helps soldiers limber up and learn to move their weapons). It is regarded as an impressive and motivating sight and a morale booster, and, seen at a distance, potentially intimidating to enemies.
A special variant of this dance is performed as means of fully incarnating the Odomache, which is done in full nudity with the body covered in the blood of the freshly sacrificed lion and cloaked in its raw pelt (the lion has become the corpse of Odomache in the moment of death, as part of its recreation of God's sacrifice). Her public, full nude appearance once (and only once) in this act is what allows the Lion Face of God to incarnate within her. Those in attendance see the spiritually vulnerable, naked human body obscured with the sanctified and deified blood and cloaked in the sanctified and deified skin. It is a merger of the contradictions of mortality and divinity, the boundaries between the two indistinct in flickering firelight and the flash of musketfire. She is witnessed by her people, dangling in between humanity and divinity and leading them in dance, and and is thus transformed.
#faiza haidamane#Not really relevant to the core post itself but I don't have anywhere to put this#Faiza is a pretty extreme cultural rarity in that she's something along the lines of agnostic (regardless of her priestesshood)#It's a culturally specific form of agnosticism where the notion that God continues to exist and interact with the world in spirit form is#questioned. She personally gets the distinct vibe that God truly and wholly died in the act of creation and is no longer present#This isn't just a Her Thing it's a concept that comes up in some strains of religious philosophy but it's pretty rare#Orthopraxy is SIGNIFICANTLY more important to the faith of the seven faced god than orthodoxy so her merely thinking this isn't#a fundamental issue as long as she performs all expected rites and behaviors and etc (which she does quite devotedly) but it would#definitely not be socially accepted to openly proclaim (least of all from a senior priestess devoted to maintaining the connection of God's#spirit to Its lands and people) and she keeps it to herself.#She is the only main character who WHOLLY doesn't expect the pilgrimage and rites to end the drought. She doesn't fully DISbelieve#either (kind of like 'well maybe?') but for her this is all a very pragmatic political maneuver to stabilize the crumbling empire and#regain the people's faith in its leadership. It's not fully cynical like it means a lot to her but in a sense of very practically protectin#her beloved empire rather than a more spiritual sentiment.#It's very complicated for her like she takes her role very seriously and cares deeply for her faith while not actually believing#in it in any personal sense. More about what it represents to her than what it's supposed to literally be.#the white calf
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hear me out: you, me, dennis, and god all know he looks good in lingerie, but maybe he's a little bit unsure what mac "the problem is you're into all that early 80s glam rock femme shit; definitely had masc4masc in his grindr profile" mcdonald will think of it
#macdennis#macdennis fanart#still probably ooc but i don't care lol#this was mostly just an early bday/christmas present to myself but hopefully you can enjoy it as well~#the time for lingerie dennis has finally come#the softest i've drawn them so far lol#the headcanon is that dennis just springs shit that he wants on mac instead of talking about it#that way if it backfires he can blame it all on mac being an idiot#but not this time reynolds------#i have a very confident victoria torturing mac comic in the works to make up for this don't worry#rob can pry mac calling him “den” out of my cold dead little paws#machinegoods#suggestive
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Hazbin Hotel Incorrect Quotes
Angel: *sliding money across the bar to pay for his drinks* You can call me sugar daddy longlegs
Husk: no
Niffty: Does that make Husk sugar baby shortlegs?
Husk: No
Niffty: Can I be sugar baby shortlegs?
Husk: NO
Angel: *wheeze*
#I'm just doing dialogue now I don't even care anymore#this is me pushing the sugar daddy Angel sugar baby Husk agenda btw#like hear me out for a second#Angel hates when people he genuinely likes spend money on him because he doesn't want it to feel like they're buying him#Husk who is usually the one paying for dates in relationships is SO confused by this treatment#it takes him a second to learn that he kinda loves it#and Angel would buy Husk so many presents that someone (probably Cherri) jokes about Angel being a sugar daddy#Angel thinks this is hilarious and Husk is just learning to roll with things now#but yeah I have reasons to think this ither than it just being funny (which is usually how I come up with things)#y'all that could've been a whole other post tf#why are these the tags#please read these tags guys#incorrect quotes#hazbin hotel#angel dust hazbin hotel#hazbin hotel incorrect quotes#husk hazbin hotel#niffty hazbin hotel#huskerdust#Angel treats Husk like a princess in the streets Husk treats Angel like a princess in the sheets
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Obsessed with what America and England have going on in HetaOni. America's like "I keep having to watch my dad die from overusing his magic in past timelines and not knowing how to stop it is killing me inside but I'm not going to talk to him about it" and England's like "I can't seem to hold a conversation with my son without insulting him but I won't hesitate to use my dying breath to ensure I can protect him from beyond the grave"
#good morning i still have hetaoni on the brain#that scene where it looks like america's going to die but turns out past loop england used the last of his strength to cast a shield on him#(+italy and germany) before sending them back to the present.... godddd#and then current loop england goes and takes on the monster america was worried about and succeeds. at the cost of going blind.#one of the very things america was afraid would happen!! he was so relieved when england survived the fight before finding that out too!!!#i don't know if this is coherent im just. they care about each other so much even though they won't say it and 😭😭😭 it makes me ill#sigh. rotating both them and hetaoni in my mind at the same time makes me so. waaughh#(also obligatory disclaimer that hetaoni doesn't label their relationship in any way them being father and son is just canon in my brain)#hetalia#hetaoni#hws america#hws england#tea dad n coffee son#personal#i have an old hetaoni wip fic that i think i intended to do more with but was mostly just about america and england as far as i got...#i can't remember the rest of my plans for it so maybe i'll shift the focus to them and try to get it finished sometime
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☆ mha sexuality hcs nobody asked 4 !
izuku - bi
katsuki - gay / asexual
ochako - bi
tsuyu - aroace
kirishima - straight / ally
mina - pansexual
iida - straight / ally
shoto - aroace
kaminari - bi
shinsou - gay
jirou - bi
momo - lesbian
sero - straight / ally
hagakure - pansexual
tokoyami - aroace
toga - bi / pan (ITS CANON)
shigaraki - unlabled cuz he doesn't care
dabi - also unlabled cuz he doesn't care (still queer in some way)
aizawa - bi
mic - gay
all might - straight / ally (very supportive)
mirko - lesbian
hawks - bi / pansexual (I can't decide)
nejire - straight / ally
tamaki - unlabled but most definitely queer
mirio - bi
#idk i just felt like i needed to write this down somewhere#only did characters i care about#my hero academia#bnha#mha#boku no hero academia#izuku midoriya#katsuki bakugo#shoto todoroki#tenya iida#denki kaminari#kirishima ejirou#tsuyu asui#shinsou hitoshi#jirou kyouka#momo yaoyorozu#aizawa shouta#present mic#all might#mirko#sero hanta#tamaki amajiki#togata mirio#nejire hado#hawks#dabi#shigaraki tomura#toga himiko#please don't attack me these are just my headcanons
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Is this one of the cringe-est things I've drawn? Maybe. Still posting it, though.
Is this enough Loudspeaker skins yet.
#bnha#mlp#present mic#hizashi yamada#pony town#hate this game but i can't stop making skins#they don't even have to be anything recognisable i'll make anything#i have a basil brush skin. like what#nobody cares about basil brush#i'm not sure i even care about basil brush#i only have 19 slots left#how many of them will be mic
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What a plot twist you were. [x]
#Like. The narrator introduces jc to us as the antagonist#Then we got to know him. Not who people think he's. But who he really is#And we saw jc giving wwx a piggyback. Giving him soup. Rescuing him. Putting himself between wwx and any danger (madam yu/wen soldiers)#And even the staged fight. It's yk. Staged#jc wanted to protect wwx at any cost. But wwx wasn't willing to compromise. But jc did#The fight was wwx's idea. Because jc is an enabler (just like jfm and jyl)#jc is ready to bend for his loved ones sake#The point is. Every action jc takes. Is in the name of his loves ones' safety. And surprise. wwx is one of the people jc really cares about#Even after wwx' return. Aside a broken cup. jc isn't doing much to stop wwx or anything. We know that jl was able to free wwx from Zidian#only because jc - Zidian's primary master- wanted it!#And jc fling himself into danger countless times to save wwx even though wwx can't sit still with him for a hot minute#What I wanted to say it's that the jc is presented to us - the mean ungrateful man- is very different from the real jc -#the indulgent uncle who rolls his eyes at his nephew antics. the brother who buries the hatchet for his sister's happiness.#the uncle who kinda wants to help wn to get up from the floor because he was an ass to jc but he helped jl and that's what matters to jc#the sect leader who let two women speak freely their mind in a patriarchy society#People better than me have already said this. shit I can't remember my point lmao#Like. jc is presented as an antagonist but what this man wanted was an apology and an explanation#This post is a mix of a rant I wrote last year (ha) after seeing a bad take. About what I don't remember lmaoo. And me wanting#to make gifs of wzc in this scene. Why does he look so good. It should be illegal. Seriously#jiang cheng#*mgifs
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It's just... odd to me, I suppose, going from "what is in my pants is completely irrelevant to most anybody else's life" to the expectation that you must be completely open, essentially, about what is in your pants.
I think a lot of people understand the general idea of why it's bad decorum to demand people offer explanations for private information like this, but they don't analyze exactly why it's bad besides, "asking directly is just rude" and not "asking in any way still enforces the often violent nature of gender and sex, and putting people in the 'right box' is a part of that violence."
It's especially odd when seeing other trans people enforcing the idea that "what's in your pants?" is a genuine, good-faith basis for interacting with others.
#trans#transgender#lgbt#lgbtq#ftm#mtf#nonbinary#what i mean by the last paragraph is... WHY does it matter?#if i lied to you right now about what is in my pants... how would you know OR how would you change how i am treated by you?#and also. i would absolutely rather lie about my *own* body than be put in danger because it is a trans body#if worse comes to worst i genuinely don't care if somebody is mildly insulted that i didn't 'trust them' enough with that information#it's just weird to see people go from 'only tell doctors that info; it hardly matters outside that!' to...#...'you need to tell ANYbody - even in social and platonic situations where you don't think it matters'...#...can you see how believing in the fundamental idea (that your sex and to extent gender is not your own and belongs to everybody else)...#...doesn't really mesh well with the idea that trans people should be able to live an autonomous life wherein their information is *theirs*#and can you see how for people who aren't trans but have an 'its complicated' with the broad 'what's in your pants?' would ALSO be hurt?#because even if you don't word it as such you still present the fundamental idea that - again - your sex and gender are required informatio#and that it must be judged to be 'accurate' so others can place you in whatever direction they want to treat you with#anyway lying about this shit isn't Inherently Evil and the idea that it's like. a boogeyman is weird actually
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i can't love you in this skin
#twittering birds never fly#saezuru tori wa habatakanai#suggestive#<- jic#interpret this as you will#there's A Lot about gender and yashiro's relationship with gender and heteronormativity especially in relation to doumeki#he asks him what type of Women he likes. they only watch m/f stuff together. “i wonder if he's gentle with women”.#the anger and disappointment when he realizes that doumeki is actually attracted to him#unless he's remembering something that happened he only fantasises about doumeki with a woman and not with himself#(same was with kageyama iirc)#except for that kiss in the elevator but that's a whole other conversation. and even then there was a woman present#he even tells kamiya that doumeki is basically straight and he's just a rare exception#yashiro's is so so desperate to push doumeki towards a “normal” life#aka not in yakuza. not with him. in a normal (straight) relationship#just. a lot of self hatred and internalized homophobia#all that being said. i think regardless of the author's intent reading yashiro as a closeted trans person is also valid#the “i could never afford myself to reflect on this and i also don't care enough about living to even bother atp” type of closet#would it contradict some of the things yashiro says? sure. but he contradicts himself all the time#am i projecting as someone who will live and die in the closet? sure#i think it's interesting that the only person who genuinely asks him about gender is ryuzaki#in the same conversation where he asks him about falling in love#and yashiro's response is basically “it wouldn't change much” and “i'm fine with what i have”. are you tho#there's a lot i can say about yashiro and aoi and yashiro and ryuzaki's girlfriend but i can't articulate it well rn so whatever#the way dumeki's lie about dating a woman affects yashiro is also interesting regardless of which interpretation you go with#which is also why i'm using post time-skip for the art. the topic keeps popping up#but yeah uh. take it as you will i just have a lot of feelings about. This#art tag
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Kun3h0!1010 (Sketch)
Since Kun3h0's design has gone through what will hopefully be its last iteration, I decided to also update the Kun3h0 1010s just for fun. They haven't changed that much since they were already different from Kun3h0, but I do think the little things that did change do make 'em a little cuter.
I actually lost the original sketch of Neon!GAB (and couldn't be bothered to search for it on the blog), so I just remade him from memory.
#gbunny draws#1010#nsr#...i guess i'll main tag this just because it's *presentable* but i don't think they'll care about it that much#no straight roads#OCs#kun3h0#i did forget to make Red's eyebrows thicker but this is just a sketch#it's nothing serious~
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alright with 30+ hours. I'm gonna yap about my personal itching beef, since I'm having a ton of fun. but.
I think by far one of my biggest issues with the game is how much they flattened out thedas' social & political landscape. maybe for ease, maybe out of fear of tackling their topics "badly," but the way that they both want to address tevinter's slavery, but have also extremely downplayed elven subjugation & oppression as a longstanding lore, is sooo... frustrating.
I think the story so far is pretty solid, I'm having a GREAT time, I enjoy all the cast, but it does feel like it could've been a lot deeper if they'd fully accounted for the breadth of these longstanding lore realities that come with magic & class & whether one is human or elven or dwarven. I've gotten NONE of that, AS an elf shadow dragon. davrin going "that'll endear us to the world..." about the gods being elven is insane -- elves are already oppressed under the structures of thedas! tevinter is where all of this STARTED. similarly, the lack of interaction between magic & class is like... craaazy to me.
these structures are present throughout the entirety of each game, it should feel different in each location. it just feels clumsy to both want to address the social issues of slavery, etc. present in thedas, and ALSO flatten out the differences between city elves & dalish, not emphasize it more especially with an elven origin... like wdym. wdym. that one of the biggest mentions of it with an elven rook is the scroll lore where rook goes "it's about time someone acknowledged what my people did..." about some guy who praised the elves. a shadow dragon elf rook will have been living with a very specific systemic structure of oppression for their entire life. WHY isn't that here. the story structure I'm having a good time with, the characters I'm having a good time with, but goddd it could have been so much deeper if it had actually incorporated some of the complexity & nuance of these social structures in thedas. you look silly trying to both include these themes of shadow dragons breaking slavery and ALSO pussyfooting around The Origins Of How We Got Here. that's not even getting into MAGIC, and how being a MAGE should mean something different in different places. like. whahrhrrhrhrhrr.
#I feel like it just.... lessens the weight of everything by far#love neve but it's insane to me that she DISAPPROVES of hem saying she would've also been pissed that mythal sided with elgar'nan#'enough to start a rebellion?' YES GIRL. SLAVERY IS WRONG? nsgdnkmgfmsgndgfds????????????#you're apart of the DISMANTLING OPPRESSION FACTION. WHERE ARE YOU?#and because these characters' origins aren't being as considered; I feel like their reactions are just#slightly off for the world they're in#this is MOST present with davrin & neve I think -- taash is a little more thoughtful in their pursuit#anyway. whatever. davrin's my babygirl davrin's my belovedest hoohohhh but insane to me that he's#dalish and his biggest commentary on the elven gods is like#haha clan life wasn't for me not my gods!#why not just make him a city elf then. oh wait! we don't care about the difference anymore#I do want him bad though. I do.#dav critical#dav spoilers
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maybe im just dumb but what is the difference between kris p and kris t?
TL;DR - They are Kris Dreemurr fictives and we needed a way to differentiate them
Oh you're not dumb, don't worry! It really is a little confusing because we haven't talked about who they or we are in a very long time. I'm going to talk a lot here so you have all the context you might need! If it''s too long,, the TL;DR above is the gist of it.
For context, we are a system! You can read about it a little in our FAQ
Kris T and Kris P are TWO Kris introjects/fictives of Kris Dreemurr from Deltarune in our system.
Originally we just had Kris T who split in Dec 2018, and then when Chapter 2 came out, Kris P came into our system after that. Of course at first, Kris T. was just "Kris", but since we had a double now, we had to figure out how to differentiate between the two. We knew another Kris fictive from a different system at this time who was nicknamed P. Kris by Susie in our system, and susie wanted to emphasize who she was talking about.
SO. As a small nod to that, everyone decided to nickname Kris P as Kris P, as an inverse of P. Kris.
A little convoluted, I know!
Besides being Kris introjects/fictives though, they also look different! I made some new drawings to try and showcase their differences if that helps :3?
Their dark world forms also look different. Kris T's is simpler, with a shiny soft cape, while Kris P's is more complicated with a hooded cape, which is also described as "very comfortable"
Here's a whole Toyhouse of images of how Kris T. looks like right now! There's also his reference ! vvv
Sorry if you weren't interested in our "life story"! They're not just random characterizations (they are alters), so I wasn't sure how to answer w/o giving you some sort of explanation.
They have their own sideblogs, so if you have specific questions directed towards them, you can always ask here because we'll see it better, or you can send them an ask in their own blogs. Kris T's is @kristalpepsi, and Kris P's is @itswhattheycallyou
#ask#Anon#fictive#fictives#headspace#ebonytailsart#Because I drew something I guess???#Tumblr is going to be special because I think these images are going to be too haunted for Twitter and Instagram#Feel free to call Kris T. Kritty or Kris T.!#Please be nice to him. He is still a person and presents as trans and nonbinary both inside and when fronting#He just so happens to use binary pronouns.#This is all information they're willing to share publicly! Especially because this has all been public information since 2018 lol!#In regards to 'does this means I cant reblog art of them anymore or use their art as my icon/header?' you still can! It doesn't matter.#As long as the post itself doesn't say “do not use as...” then don't worry about it! :3#Being a system in public/ online and having UTDR fictives is actually rather terrifying. Susie is just very brave about it and doesn't care#Hm what else.. this really brings us back to ogeeitsme.. when people would ask us questions about our system a lot.#Like 'what's the difference between Chara's and Kris's eyes?" We drew a whole graph for that hehe#From Kit#If I get too scared I may delete this.
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So sometimes whenever the Vampire age gap discourse happens i occasionally will see people bring up "Well who tf are the vampires supposed to date? Grandmas?" LIKE ACTUALLY YEAH WHY NOT, outside of the discourse Why is there fucking no Vampire-Gilf age romance I wanna see that more it, that would rock as hell 🥺
#this is not an invite for said fighting of the problem i dont really care about it#i just don't get why people would present this as a bad thing 😔
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hi I love your tags so so much! they were so sweet and so interesting and creative and the whole Aphrodite type of beauty thing sounds really interesting do you have any articles and recommendations to read further into it??
-hogoflight
Hello my fine feathered (I am assuming possession of feathers if you are, indeed, capable of flight) @hogoflight! I'm always always happy to hear that people appreciate my frenzied rambling in the tags :D! I have a lot of articles and recommendations :D!! Ancient Greek notions of beauty and representations of it in their art and sculptures is a pretty well studied topic! There isn't any way for us now to know definitively what the beauty standard was (it varied widely from region to region and culture to culture after all) but here are a couple of my favourite reads about Aphrodite and what her representations tell us about idealised beauty!
Probably the most empirically extensive one I can list is Krönström's thesis which compares statues of Aphrodite and literary text referring to both the goddess and mortal women to determine physical ideals for women in five specific eras of Grecian antiquity. Including measurements of the statues there are many descriptions of Aphrodite as 'curvy' with a 'voluptuous figure' and with 'ample buttocks and bosom'.
"When the beauty traits are described in the texts, they are never extreme or anything that could not be found in normal people just that they are more beautiful in every aspect. Furthermore, the sculptures’ physical forms look healthy, they are tall and have distinct curves. Great examples of this are the Knida sculpture and de Milo (the Melian) sculpture."
Of course, these images are still idealised, and there was still a concept such as 'too fat' or 'too skinny' found in written records (and this thesis even includes analysis of pornographic writings and descriptions of the fashion and stylings of pubic hair of women from different regions!!) but from an interpretational standpoint? There is absolutely no reason why these can't refer to a fuller figure. Height was also a very important factor after all and over the course of many eras, it seems like being well proportioned in addition to the length and appearance of one's hair were the most important factors (and, like Apollo, greater beauty was given to those with curlier hair)
Mireille M. Lee's 'Other Ways of Seeing' essay which talks about the forgotten female viewers of Knidian Aphrodite which is also extremely illuminating on how Aphroditic sexuality and sensuality was perceived totally differently from the well documented male voyeuristic gaze (which was overly preoccupied with the statue's nakedness and therefore over-sensationalised the statue's physical appearance) vs women's perspective on the statue which is more centered on the beauty of simplicity in Aphrodite's garment and decoration and in her power and ability to captivate both in her finery and without it. I think it's especially useful in exploring the importance of finery, jewellry and adornment in representations of Aphroditic beauty.
"Some of the small-scale copies are heavily jeweled, especially those from the eastern Mediterranean, for example the Hellenistic gilded terracotta statuette in the Çanakkale Museum (Fig. 5) in which the goddess wears, in addition to the armband on her (right) arm, the following: a necklace with multiple pendants; cross-bands extending over both shoulders and hips, with a cascading pendant in the center; a coiled snake armband on the left arm and another snake on her left thigh, and a twisted anklet on her right leg. (The left leg has been restored, and might also have featured an anklet.)"
"Jewelry is especially associated with Aphrodite in Greek literature. As seen above, in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite, the goddess adorns herself with gold jewelry, dress-pins, and earrings in the shape of flowers (162–3)..."
Finally, and to me, the most important one in the argument for an interpretation of Hyacinthus as fat, beautiful and fundamentally Aphroditic comes from Brilmayer's brilliant brilliant thesis done on Aphrodite's work and influence in Archaic Greek Poetry which does away with all of that masculine preoccupation with physical proportion, measurement and bodily ideals for a focus on a Sapphic Aphroditic ideal centered in clothing, ornamentation and, most importantly cunning as symbols of Aphrodite and ultimately a feminine idealised form of beauty. This paper also discusses Pandora and Helen in these terms and it is just kind of a wonderful read tbh.
"Combining Homeric and Hesiodic elements with her own ideas, she [Sappho] alters the way female beauty is viewed. For example, the Homeric war chariot – a symbol of male, military prowess - comes to symbolise the totality of Aphrodite’s power uniting in itself male and female qualities. Having addressed the concept of beauty directly, Sappho then concludes that beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. With the help of Helen of Troy and her beloved Anaktoria, Sappho sets out to reinvent the concept of female beauty as a godlike, subjective quality that may be expressed in many ways, yet remains inspired by Aphrodite."
The conclusion to all of this of course is that Aphroditic ideal beauty is much more fluid compared to its stricter Apolline masculine standard. The nuances and understandings of both are of course, constantly being studied, analysed and scrutinised but really, if Dionysus who was both bearded and clean shorn, effeminate, birthed and rebirthed (and twice gestated!) and strongly associated with vegetation can be popularly portrayed as fat and handsome, why can't Hyacinthus?!
#ginger rambles#ginger answers asks#Once again I do not care how it happens or who I have to pay#I don't even care how much research I have to do#All I care about is more unique portrayals of Hyacinthus#Literally that's it#I will go through every academic hoop to make that possible if that's what peeps need TRUST#No because there's a genuine conversation to be had about a Hyacinthus who is split between masculine and feminine qualities#Likewise there's a wonderful conversation to be had wrt Apollo's fluidity in terms of presentation and how it does not reflect on his gende#the way Dionysus' fluidity reflects on his#Apollo is ALWAYS masculine no matter his ornaments garments makeup or action#It doesn't matter that he has the prettiest curls or wears elaborate dresses for his kitharody and dances#or values the deep dyes of the lapis - Apollo is ALWAYS male and that cannot be concealed by any finery or garment#Aphrodite however is an ally in this measure because through her beauty bridges the gap between the mortal and the divine#And we see this constantly in the way mortal beauties are able to attract the eye of many gods and how glory and ultimately immortality#are gained from these things#After all even after their deaths or betrayals or tragedies#We still tell their stories and remember their names#And what is Apollo if not the one who recites all of these beautiful memories - what is Clio if not the one who records these histories#ANYWAY PLEASE DRAW FAT HYACINTHUS#PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE#I AM ON MY KNEES I AM BEGGING (no pressure seriously I'm being very lighthearted) BUT ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEEEE#TOGETHER WE CAN KILL THE PATROCLES/HYAPOLLO VISUAL PARALLELS WE CAN DO IT I KNOW WE CAN#ANYTHING SO THAT XANTHIAN DEVIL ARISTOS ACHAION DOESN'T GET ANY MORE PARALLELS WITH APOLLO P L E A S E#This is of course entirely because of my own biases and such there's nothing objectively wrong with comparing and paralleling#Hyapollo and Patrocles - however and I cannot stress this enough#P l e a s e#Thank you for the ask <33 Always a pleasure to provide more relatively obscure references mmhm#Hope this helps!#oh almost forgot
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