#Cobra Kai is Robby's tragic story

[purpleheartskies]

Robby is a teen who mentored a younger kid.

Johnny is an adult parent who willingly abandoned his child and later replaced him.

Although there are moments in the story that can be compared between Robby and Kenny's story and Johnny and Robby's story, the contexts of these relationships are so different.

People need to stop equating these two relationships. Parenting is not synonymous with mentoring, and equating them minimizes parenting in general as well as Johnny's failures wrt Robby.

Besides, the moments that can be compared show the contrast in how Robby strives to be a better person compared to how Johnny doesn't do that. Robby has no responsibility to Kenny, yet Robby as a mentor has done more for Kenny than Johnny as a parent has ever done for Robby.

[joecram93]

Now That Robby's Back in Miyagi-Do!

Season 5 was a letdown in my opinion!

Robby may be Miyagi-Do, at heart, but he no longer has any connections to Daniel or his students (I still don't see Eli/Hawk as a real Miyagi-Do student), based on watching S5!

There are two things I would like to happen to Robby:

Daniel takes Robby to Mr. Miyagi's Bonsai tree on Devil's Cauldron from KK3

Daniel gives Robby Mr. Miyagi's truck

[variousqueerthings]

the thing is there’s bad shows that have fascinating characters and arcs and set-ups and inbuilt lore from the start and interesting good accidents all the way through due to Tensions in gender and sexuality and intersectional politics that naturally occur when the writing challenges the belief systems of the writers (whether or not they allow it to change them is immaterial, the writing is what it is and its potential always supersedes the limitations of those writing it) and even the fact that the writer isn’t really up to the task to be honest about what the writing is asking of them, even the fact that they back down and take the story to incomprehensible places due to not knowing how to react when challenged and so the answer is reactionary and clumsy and even ignorant-

even that is interesting, because seeing the threads that make up the story, seeing how they pull -- sometimes with deliberation and sometimes with fumbling fear of unknown territory -- relates right back to all those things that were put in there, accidentally or on purpose

which brings us, of course, to cobra kai

taking out all the boring stuff about why this or that happened (we know why, the writers are three middle-aged straight white cis dudes who have large blindspots about what they’re delving into and accidentally made the most interesting dynamics same-sex because they believe martial arts should be segregated and don’t know how to write characters who aren’t using their fists to progress their story and they’re afraid of Politics) and then think about why does it happen in the story?

(the alternative of course is to go “I simply erase it from the story,” which is a strong choice, and it also asks the question: what do these key changes do to the trajectory of everything)

why does it happen in the story? Not “why do some other (paid, flipping paid) writers want it to happen,” but what would it take for it to make sense for you?

what gods of that universe, or longform stories, or subversions, or tricks, or missing scenes, or, or, or, do you need to make it work?

the story is still there, the writing is still interesting for knowing concretely what the flaws of the writers are (some people picked up on that early, I’m an optimistic soul I’ve been told) -- so what loose threads need to be picked up on, what questions have gone unanswered or hurried through or answered incorrectly?

what do you need to do to make it work?

[lysteriaposts]

COBRA KAI S5 REVIEW (unhinged vers.)

SPOILER WARNING AS IF IT ISN'T CLEAR.

I actually wrote a list of my thoughts post episode 8, and oh it was not positive. Luckily enough a few of the things I was annoyed about were addressed the last two episodes where a lot happened. I've now slept on it and am ready to give a less rantsy review lol.... if you like to hype everything CK and only wanna hear positive things then I suggest you don't read further.

+ indicates positives (duh) and - negatives.

Let's rip the band aid off first.

- Mike Barnes being a wasted character and only there to subvert expectations (SAD!!!) - As a consequence, too many new characters brought in making the plot messier, crowded, contrived - Chozen being forced to like the girl he almost killed bc everyone needs to have a significant other / love interest of the opposite sex on this show - Kreese prison break is the dumbest shit I've ever seen - Kreese dying tragically in prison as he's trying to better himself would've been such a good writing choice, but they wanted to subvert that too - Kreese's plan he had with Tory never being explained - Johnny/Carmen baby drama making me want to barf all over my computer - Carmen being a baby carrier instead of an actual person - New gen kids serving no purpose in the overall story (except Kenny a little) - Rehashed plot of Sam/Miguel breakup taking up too much screentime and serving no purpose for the characters - Cheesy octopus < 🙄 - Half assed attempt at giving Sam introspection which gets dropped an episode after it was introduced - Sam being self absorbed (what's new) and deflecting blame - Demetri & Hawk could've been absent and there would not be any difference - Forced attempts at giving Hawk any relevance - Hawk being hypocritical and full of himself - Miguel's Mexico journey not changing anything for the character or his relationship with Johnny (or anyone for that matter) - Too little focus on Robby/Tory as a unit and their conflict - Too little focus on Robby/Kenny as a unit and their conflict - Robby redeeming and propping Johnny is not the same as developing and repairing their relationship, writers - Johnny kidnapping Robby to Mexico for absolutely no reason when he was gone tops 2 days - Carmen kind of forcing (and wanting!?!?) Johnny to have a baby with her - Johnny using new baby as an excuse for Miguel/Robby to have to get along - Robby breaking up with Tory after one disagreement - Robby going to see them at the Cobra Kai dojo way too late - Tory not confiding in Robby at all - Robby's character suffering from having to unnecessarily bond with every other character except the ones he truly cared about - Robby being forcefully sidelined in the story because he has to be attached at the hip with his new "family" - Tory ending up the show's punching bag, blamed and excluded for the 50th time - Devon Lee being... there, kind of annoying and one dimensional - Too much Kreese with no pay off - Too many flashbacks - No explanation to why Sam/Robby are cordial (I shouldn't be surprised they didn't explain Sam/Hawk either) - Stingray crying crocodile tears... actually just Stingray. - Sam being the one to wave her finger at Stingray wanting to keep his benefits (couldn't ANYONE ELSE have said that) - Silver not being the mastermind everybody expected him to be and mainly waving around his money - Amanda siding with Silver over her husband... dumb but ok - Jessica Andrews, just way too convenient - Kyler still being "one of the best" in Cobra Kai is laughable - Them trying to kill off Chozen, the only POC sensei - Them not having any balls to kill off any characters, but like to dangle it in front of us - Practically no Mike Barnes/Silver interactions

+ Very good fighting choreography + Cool shots and scenes i.e. Sam's dream, Miguel/Robby balcony fight 2.0 + Miguel/Robby relationship + Robby/Tory relationship (what we got) + Robby/Kenny relationship (what we got) + Kreese's therapy sessions (before it got subverted) + Miguel's scenes with his real dad + Johnny Lawrence comedy + Chozen... just, Chozen... seriously he might've carried the whole season for me + Chozen/Daniel relationship + Chozen/Johnny comparing notes lol + Daniel's arc and seeing him at his lowest + Anthony/Sam sibling bond + Little we got of Anthony/Chozen + Inverting Daniel and Johnny's "roles" + Daniel/Silver fights + Tory working as "undercover" instead of continuing to be "brainwashed" + Sam helping Tory although them coming together felt rushed + "I broke up with him for the dojo, you BITCH!" + Peyton List's acting + The new gen kids' acting + The Quicksilver method ! + Kenny/Silver scenes + Tory/Kreese scenes + More about Silver's background and ambitions + I don't blame Amanda for being done with Daniel's skeletons in his closet even though I called her dumb + Miguel speaking Spanish hehe + Chozen infiltrating CK was cool but should've been a full season thing- + Mike Barnes being the only og character not holding onto an old karate tournament, lol

[leohttbriar]

If you were the showrunner of Cobra Kai, how would you address Tory's issues and the subtle classism?

Well ain't that the million dollar question. And, apologies, but this is VERY long.

I mean, obviously, I would adjust the perspective on her earlier dramatic plot with Miguel so that our two main-est of main girl-characters weren't literally fighting over a dude. probably throw in a conversation with tory and miguel where he's like "i mean, you did overreact about us kissing that one time" and she's like "that was so Not about you it's not even funny." with that and just, like, giving her any sort of attention as a character and treating her with as much or more sympathy than people i think are genuinely just worse human beings (johnny or kreese), she's already way more realized.

but i think if i wanted to write a story that's most satisfying to me personally, i would really want to engage with the fact that the biggest obstacle in her narrative (whatever shape it might take) is her inability to Move or Affect the world.

part of this quality of her character has a lot to do with bad writing, so far. she's written as a mostly flat-villain/competitor, meant not to be a foil to sam so much as a road-block in sam's story. to me, it seems like they gave her a tragic backstory to get miguel On Her Side for a bit and also to make it plausible that he would fight for her by the end of season 2, because he's meant to be a good boy who's even nice to mean girls. and for the most part she's framed as a mean girl. her chekov's spiked-bracelet is planted specifically to show how violent she is capable of being. we're meant to be a little bit scared of her, even if we can sympathize with her struggle.

given all that, in seasons 2-3, Tory as a character is only allowed to react, not to affect. she can't change her position, she can't change what truly harms her, she can't choose a path that will make her less vulnerable, she can't change as a person--all because it's important she stays fixed so that characters can change themselves and/or manipulate the world around her while playing the roles written for them. it's a pretty ironic move considering the ethos driving the series as a whole (the idea that "bullies are people too, you know.")

so instead of just trying to change that completely--that is, the way tory doesn't seem capable of affecting her own story--i would lean into it. i would emphasize it. i would write a scene where tory gets mad at robby for a) choosing kreese when some rich dude was willing to take him back into his home and b) giving up on his mother. not to criticize robby's choices or label them the "wrong" ones--he's a child and for the most part i think the writers are doing a good job of not condemning him for his mistakes. the point of a scene like this would be to demonstrate that Tory is aware of her situation and that her biggest source of envy is the freedom of those around her.

it would also delineate how Tory approaches loyalty and love, as an all-in sort of venture. she's been shown to be quick to make enemies and stubborn in keeping them (this isn't over, larusso) so it would stand to reason that the same pattern applies to people she loves.

to work in the class issues, i would probably include a scene for every episode in which it's made clear how much power Kreese has over her for both paying her rent and allowing her into the only arena in life in which she feels some form of power. there would be: a scene where she can't make practice because she's working and kreese threatens her with robby's new position in dojo as "champion" and "favorite"; a scene where she rips a gi on accident and silver lectures her about respecting her things and how much a burden she is, how much a burden her recklessness is; a scene where she has to literally ask either of these dudes for rent-money (i would make this scene in particular last as long as possible and then smash cut to sam or miguel being very obviously taken care of by their parents).

point is, she's Trapped. no matter how much she bites and screams and scratches, she can't get out. because her mother is sick and she's just a kid and her family needs her but there's nothing she can do.

essentially, I would write her particular form of obsessive in a similar way to Inigo's from the princess bride. her season-arc would be her slowly realizing that her anger and her violence can be righteous if she only finds a way to be honest about it---which is a story about learning to trust the world to know you even though you think the world is specifically against you.

there's a lot of ways to push her into this position, but i think the way that would make the most sense with the story they've written so far is that at some point she turns to sam for help.

this would lead off the fact that a) sam is the person that has inspired the most intense reactions from her, b) sam is one of the people who tory has hurt the most (other than dimitri--but like, if he can forgive hawk for literally snapping his arm, sam can forgive some deep cuts) and c) sam has already said she would be there. she said, "you know where to find me."

she can't trust nice people like miguel because they'll cheat, she can't trust her teachers because they'll just use her and than replace her with a more malleable and less aware kid, she can't trust any other authority figures because they represent and are the people who laid off her mother when she got sick and turned Tory into a child-mother, sister-mother, breadwinner. so who can she trust? the person who always fights back, who always meets her when she moves, who pays attention to her, who now, after everything, sees past her caged-feral screams and bites, who has said to Tory "you know where to find me."

i would probably write an episode where tory is pulled too thin and she forgets to pick up her little brother from soccer practice, or something else he's a part of that takes place at anthony's school, and when she races there to get him, she finds him hanging out with anthony and sam who saw him and recognized him and decided to look out after him and her own brother until tory could get him. and he's upset because tory promised they could visit their mom in the hospital but she has to pick up a shift and their neighbor can't do it and so she turns to sam and, like the humblest of uriah smiths, fuelled partly by bitterness and partly by desperation, she asks sam to take him. sam, of course, says yes.

thus, for a brief moment, someone else is there to sincerely take care of Tory.

and then Tory has an emotional scene with her mother in which she confesses that sometimes she feels like a monster, that everyone thinks she's a monster, and it's hard to know if she's even real anymore. her mom Mothers her and Tory is finally able to affect the story.

geezus, hope all that answered your question. really went off the deep end there lmao.

[thorniest-rose]

Are you the one who wrote that Halloween oneshot Daniel obsessed Robby? Because I reread it again recently and you gut me down to the core. So visceral- Robby's feelings. His dark impulses. The cliffhanger with Silver. Like. I wanna know how exactly Daniel clawed himself into Terry or Terry's interpretation of that. 👀 I guess I just love the gut punch of Daniel unknowingly breaking hearts just by existing

yes that's me!!!! I've been thinking about that little fic a lot again recently and how much I want to another fic where Robby's in love with Daniel. Not set in that verse because it was extremely dark, but more within the realms of canon, when Johnny and Robby go to Mexico and they inevitably end up talking about a lot of things and Robby blurts it out one day. And it deals with all the fallout from that as Johnny tries to help Robby while also having to face his own feelings for Daniel.

But in that Halloween fic specifically, Terry said all those things to Robby to manipulate him. He wants Robby to see Daniel as this kind of siren who lures men in just to chew them up and spit them out. When in reality of course Daniel was the victim and Terry was the one who preyed on him, but that won't be the story Terry tells Robby, he'll flip it to seem like Daniel seduced him. Just like he seduced Robby (even though he didn't!!) but Terry will convince Robby of that to turn him against Daniel and weaponise him.

It's so sad, Robby generally is such a tragic figure!!! He's so starved of affection and validation in CK and I can see him imprinting on Daniel just to wind up feeling rejected and having his heart broken. I do wish the writers had done something like this in S4, where Robby was fully initiated into & brainwashed by Kreese and Terry, and fought against Daniel and Johnny as this kind of dark Cobra Kai princeling, but of COURSE they didn't and instead we got a very insipid kind of Robby storyline (imo).

[join-the-club-weve-got-jackets]

In the show Cobra Kai, Robby is my boy and his relationship (or lack thereof) with Johnny is one I’m very invested in and get emotional about. And just something I’ve thought of before in previous seasons but really started paying attention to this season is (one of) the sad, tragic parts of their relationship: All the ways that Johnny would really love Robby and love/be proud that Robby’s his kid if he actually knew his son and paid attention to him and spent any real time with him. I see so many scenes and missed opportunities where you know if Johnny was there with Robby or at least paying attention to what he’s doing, he’d be having these ‘God, I love that kid’ or ‘Damn, he really is my kid’ kind of moments. 

And like I know Johnny fears Robby ever turning out like him, but that’s because he’s got so much self-loathing that he only sees (and is told by everyone about) all the bad ways that Robby could take after him. He doesn’t think about the good or harmless traits that Robby could inherit from him. 

Just a forewarning, this turned out a lot longer than expected, but here are some of the ways/moments I’ve seen in the show where Johnny would definitely be a proud dad: 

Robby’s natural athleticism and karate talent: Johnny loves karate and values being badass. That’s a given. In season one when Daniel’s started training Robby in karate, he says the kid is a natural. He was obviously good enough to make it all the way to the finals in the All Valley in his first time at the tournament. The AVT is also the first time that Johnny gets to see Robby’s fighting skills and how good he is, and I would really hope he’s feeling proud of him, among his other conflicted feelings. Then in the next couple seasons we get to see Robby in some good fights where he kicks ass against his opponents: him and Sam at the mall vs. CK, taking down Shawn and his bullies in juvy (where he ran up the wall and did a flip), and taking down all the CK kids by himself in 4x01. If Johnny could have seen any of those fights, you know he’d be proud of Robby kicking ass like that. The best example is seeing Robby’s performance in the second AVT though. Both in the skills competition and the matches, Robby was a total beast and kicked some serious ass. He may not have won the final match, but that doesn’t downplay how well he did all tournament. We finally get to see Johnny acknowledge this in their last scene in the dojo. Johnny (quietly) proudly tells Robby he kicked ass that day, which is like one of the highest compliments in Johnny Lawrence’s book. So in spite of all the other crap going on, you just gotta feel like Johnny is so proud of Robby and so happy that he inherited his natural fighting talent/athleticism, and when he’s watching him compete a part of him is thinking like ‘My kid just did that. My kid’s badass.’ 

Robby’s attitude/sass/pushing people’s buttons: We’ve seen on several occasions that Robby isn’t afraid to say what’s on his mind and call people out, especially when it comes to the adults who piss him off and let him down. He’s definitely got an attitude and will sass back or mouth off to almost anyone, which we usually see directed at Johnny. One of my favorite examples: When he snarks back at Terry Silver at the AVT, “Do you want to fight him?”, and Silver nearly murders the teen on sight. We also see him doing stuff to purposely piss people off and push their buttons. That’s how his whole story started on the show: he got involved with Daniel LaRusso because he knew if his dad found out, he’d be pissed. Do you know who else has a similar effect of making other people upset and who likes to push people’s buttons? Johnny. It’s no wonder the first time Kreese ever meets Robby and the boy responds to his story about Johnny with “Cool story…try telling it to someone who gives a shit” that Kreese just laughs and tells him you’re [Johnny’s] son all right. So if we can finally get some less angry scenes of Johnny and Robby together and Johnny gets to see Robby’s attitude/sass directed at people other than him, you gotta think he’d love it. If he had gotten to see that interaction with Silver at the tournament, Johnny would’ve been both proud/impressed and worried about Robby mouthing off to a known psycho. (No sense of self-preservation found in this kid)

Robby being ready to punch Daniel the first time he met him: This one’s pretty simple. We know how Johnny and Daniel’s first (and present day) interactions go. If Daniel ever told Johnny that Robby was ready to hit him the first time he tried talking to him, you know Johnny would be so amused and have such a proud dad moment. ‘Ready to punch LaRusso on sight? That’s my boy.’

Robby’s cool kid/bad boy vibes (part 1): Johnny’s all about being cool and masculine and badass. He dislikes anything he thinks is nerdy. The kids who joined his Cobra Kai and later Eagle Fang are what you would consider to be the nerdy, misfit, social outcast type. We see Johnny mocking them for this so much. That hasn’t changed after four seasons. Then you have Robby with his ‘90s heartthrob good looks, long hair, charm, flippant attitude, and delinquency. When he actually hangs around kids his own age, he can easily make friends and get along well with them. On the surface, he’s like the complete opposite of the kids in Johnny’s dojo. The kind of effortlessly cool kid that some of them (think Hawk) would aspire to be. This is the kind of cool, confident kid Johnny was trying to mold his students into. The kind of teen (and adult) he believes he was/is. And it’s all right there in his own kid. Minus the dropping out of school and committing crimes, you’d think he’d be loving all of this about Robby. Unlike some of the ‘nerds’ he teaches, his kid is cool like him. 

Robby’s cool kid/bad boy vibes (part 2): This one is kind of an off-shoot of the last one. We’re gonna focus on prom night here though. Again, Johnny prides himself on being cool, badass, and good with women. He likes to think the same about his son, which we can see when he tells Ali that Robby’s a “heartbreaker” or when he thinks Molly is some hot chick that Robby was hooking up with. At the time, we didn’t really see any of that sort of behavior out of Robby. And he was super hesitant going into his relationship with Sam, which actually ended in him having his heart broken. But I digress. For prom, while we see some of the other Miyagi-Do/Eagle Fang kids either flying solo or going home after having their nights ruined or having to try hard to make their move with their date, Robby had a good time and ended the night by hooking up with Tory in Silver’s convertible Ferrari (with the top down) while parked outside near a carnival. Hot girl? Check. Sweet car? Check. Hooking up with said hot girl in the sweet car? Check and check. If Johnny and Robby were close enough for Robby to ever tell Johnny about this, you know he’d be damn well impressed with his kid. Just look how excited he was when Miguel had a successful first date with Sam. It’d be another “Tell me you’re the man” moment, or at least a ‘That’s my boy’ proud dad moment. 

Robby being dramatic and his shirtlessness: We’ve seen that Robby can have a flair for the dramatic just like his old man. Him getting so frustrated with his little gi top that he just rips it off mid-fight rather than re-tie it, that was really over-the-top. But we know Johnny’s prone to being dramatic about so many things as well. He also has a history of going shirtless (cue the shirtless beach photos of William being canon) or wearing his slutty gi (RIP). Robby has had at least one shirtless moment each season too, as well as the low-cut v-neck he wears for his ‘80s night costume. So when Robby ripped off his gi top during the AVT final, I’d like to think this was more of a ‘Being dramatic and fighting shirtless? Damn, he really is my kid’ kind of moment for Johnny. 

Robby being a more quiet, introverted kid: I believe Johnny and Robby have it in common that they can be the quiet, man of few words type. Like if you think of Daniel, Miguel, or I’m gonna say Mary Mouser who plays Sam, they can all be these super friendly, talkative people. It’s one of the reasons Johnny finds Daniel to be an annoying twerp. When Miguel first meets Johnny and asks him to teach him some karate, he’s like this sunshine, bubbly, talkative kid going up against this gruff, quiet, asshole type who just wanted to be left alone. He eventually won Johnny over, but that easily could have been something that annoyed him. With Robby though, we see that he’s a lot more like Johnny in that he’s the quiet, keep to himself, more introverted kind of kid. If Johnny and Robby do start getting along better, you could easily see them just chilling out in his apartment, doing some karate, or riding along in the car and not needing to talk all the time because they’re both comfortable with the quiet time. And I think Johnny would like/appreciate that in Robby. It could be a nice break from the LaRusso’s, and occasionally Miguel’s, more talkativeness. 

Other similarities between Robby and Johnny: These couple examples aren’t as long, so I’m just gonna group them together. First, since we talked a little bit about their apparel, we can see that Johnny and Robby have similar clothing styles, when Robby’s dressing more for himself and not to impress anyone that is. They’ve got the band tees, the layered shirts, the plaid shirts, jeans, and sneaker-type shoes. They also both love music and have been seen to use it as a way to drown out bad things going on around them. There may even be some bands or genres they like that overlap. 

Overall, I just think it’s so sad for both of them that Robby is basically the perfect kid that Johnny would want, but they barely know each other or spend any time together for Johnny to actually appreciate that fact. So Johnny’s missing out on this great son you know he’d really love, and Robby’s missing out on all that love and pride from his dad. 

[shrinkthisviolet]

I definitely think one of the main themes for the younger generation in Cobra Kai is about the loss of innocence and the toll it takes. Because, in Season 1, Miguel just wants to protect himself & get the girl of his dreams; Sam wants to be popular & loved by & please everyone she thinks matters; Hawk just wants to be accepted as a regular & later cool kid despite his deformity; Dimitri jus wants to keep his head down & read comics; Aisha just wants her friend back; Robbie wishes to have a stable family. These are all innocent wants & needs that a lot of kid/teens deal with. Truly innocent desires. But as Season 1 progresses, Miguel gets what he wants, but loses Sam because of his jealousy; Sam realizes that you can’t be loved or please everyone, only yourself; Hawk becomes cool, but also the very thing he used to hate; Dimitri starts to lose his friend because of his inaction; Aisha gains new friends of her own, but starts herself to grow apart from Sam; Robbie gains a surrogate family with the LaRusso’s, but does so by mostly lying.

And in Season 2, when Kreese shows up, & the war begins, he manages to make each of the characters lose even more of their innocence. Miguel starts to question whether there is honor in Mercy, placing him at a crossroads with Johnny & Kreese; Sam learns that every action, no matter how small, from her love life to fighting her enemies, has severe consequences; Hawk becomes increasingly violent & toxic, causing him to lose Moon, the only peaceful balance he had in his life; Dimitri takes up Karate & discover sometimes you can’t run from fights & that friends can become your greatest enemies; Aisha struggles with her old connections to Sam & her loyalties to Tory & Cobra Kai; Robbie learns that it’s very easy to regress to his darker tendencies when provoked. Plus, with introduction of Tory, we meet someone who lost her innocence a long time ago due to her family’s history.

And, in Season 3, Miguel deals with severe injuries & the disabilities that come with it; Sam suffers from guilt & PTSD; Hawk reaches his own moral crossroads; Dimitri becomes more of a fighter & warrior; Aisha is forced to move away from everything she loves; Robbie deals with the brutal repercussions of his actions, taking a darker path than ever intended; Tory falls deeper into her rage, sorrow, & denial.

So, with each Season the characters lose more of their innocence as they are hardened by this tragic war started by John Kreese. Which in a way, could be a metaphor for how the world forces us to grow up at a certain point in our lives, no matter if we’re ready or not. Which, in my opinion, definitely just adds to Cobra Kai’s appeal. Now, if we could just get a great story for Sam & Tory, it would be perfect! The writer’s have potential, if they would just try to give these characters the story they deserve that also progresses the theme they’ve established. Like have Sam & Tory do scenes where they learn more about each other, instead of just trying to kick the other’s head off. They did it with Johnny & Daniel. I really don’t want to wait another few decades to get that type of development for Sam & Tory. Love to hear your thoughts on this!

YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT OMG

The loss of innocence throughout this show...it’s so tragic 😭 like in my AU, Sam and Tory are taken away to somewhere long past before their rivalry can escalate (read: before Kreese and love drama can drive a wedge between them), along with Aisha, who loves them both. They’re still relative innocent then, their trifles are small, so they’re able to get over it and become friends much easier than if it was, say, after 2x10

There’s a great fic series that has them getting together post-3x10, but WOW that’s a lot of trauma to carry with them 😭

And omg Miguel and Robby?? These poor kids!! Miguel deals with his descent into darkness and gets paralyzed (and Johnny helping him is what keeps him in the light). Robby, meanwhile, has no one on his side, and his faith wanes, wavers, until Kreese puts in the effort and Robby draws hard lines in the sand.

Aisha, meanwhile, is able to keep most of her qualities, but the price is moving away. The price is cutting herself off, by external/parental force.

Demetri pushes and pushes and tries so, so hard–and what does he get for it? A broken arm. And only in his very last hour of need does Hawk finally intervene.

Calling it a “war” is definitely giving Kreese too much credit, but...OH MY GOD, the message of “give up your innocence, cut yourself off, or suffer for it??” OUCH!

[gainaxvel3o]

The School Brawl was a great fight scene, lots of tracking shots and and interpersonal conflicts paid off and ROBBIE NO!!!! Miguel’s in a bad place now...

Cobra Kai Season 2 was fantastic, continuing the story in interesting and tragic ways as you really see the rivalry between Daniel and Johnny really poisoning the way they’re teaching their students. Kreese didn’t even have to do all that much, just place some bombs here and there and let everyone else kick off the explosions. The finale was FUCKING DEVASTATING, truly it’s the darkest hour of the show. How is everyone going to recover from this?

[ao3feed-lawrusso]

The Power of Love

by BackinBlack_80

Two boys fell in love in the 80s and spent the next three decades circling each other, falling in and out of each other's lives, everything, everyone and their own stupid pride pulling them apart and circumstances bringing them back together. Does love truly conquer all or is it all just a stupid fantasy?

Words: 20869, Chapters: 1/5, Language: English

Fandoms: Cobra Kai (Web Series), Karate Kid (Movies)

Rating: Not Rated

Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings

Categories: M/M

Characters: Daniel LaRusso, Johnny Lawrence, Lucille LaRusso, Sid Weinberg, Laura Lawrence, Bobby Brown (Karate Kid), Miguel Diaz (Cobra Kai), Robby Keene, Shannon Keene, Original Characters, Amanda LaRusso, Samantha LaRusso

Relationships: Daniel LaRusso/Johnny Lawrence

Additional Tags: Teenage Lawrusso into Adult Lawrusso, Enemies to Friends to Lovers, Heartbreak, Seperation, Homophobia, Domestic Violence, returning to each other, tragic love story with a happy ending, lawrusso

source https://archiveofourown.org/works/27160694

[purpleheartskies]

Who the hell is Miguel to question Robby if he is in Cobra Kai, specifically mentioning that Robby had told Sensei that he had left Cobra Kai? Like, what business does Miguel have in Johnny and Robby's relationship and what right does Miguel have to question Robby's loyalty to his own father?

Or like Miguel telling Hawk and Demetri that Miguel's not letting it get to him that Robby is with Johnny now. Like, who the hell is Miguel to be bothered or even think that he has the right to be bothered by Robby's presence in Johnny's life? Robby is Johnny's son.

And of course what has made all this worse is that Johnny has set the unspoken condition with Robby that he has to get along with Miguel in order for Johnny to be happy with Robby and keep him around, even though Robby had made it clear that he is fine with Johnny and Miguel having their thing as long as Robby is kept out of it. But, Miguel had issues with Robby, and Johnny wanted them resolved so he pressured Robby into fighting Miguel instead of respecting Robby's wishes, thus empowering Miguel and making it clear that what Miguel wants matters more than what Robby wants.

And of course, Miguel was happy with this because he finally got to hurt Robby like he has wanted to since s1 and got to do so with Johnny's full approval. Miguel and Robby both know that Miguel is still the more important one to Johnny between the two of them.

That fight and its resolution cemented for Robby that he was still not Johnny's priority even before that news dropped.

[dream-beyond-the-fantasy]

Character questions for the Lawrence siblings: 15 and 21 for Johnny, and 29 and 40 for Julie. Thank you!!

Johnny

15. Is your character preoccupied with money or material possession? Why or why not?  Johnny can be preoccupied with material possessions.  He grew up with a wealthy producer stepfather in Encino during the status-heavy 80s.  He owned (or at least drove/rode) a 1982 Avanti II convertible, a Honda XL 600R bike, and a Pontiac Firebird.  Johnny wore the best clothes and cared about his appearance.  But after several setbacks in his life, he started caring less about material things, but money was still something that was on his mind.  Johnny managed to hold onto his precious Firebird, but lacked the funds for new paint jobs.  He was constantly going from one job to the next.  He had to settle for living in cheap, sometimes run-down apartments in Reseda.  Johnny stopped taking pride in his appearance; he would buy clothes that were cheap, fit for the most part, and were practical, rather than stylish.  When Robby came along, Johnny had to send a portion of what meager pay he got to Shannon for child support, which she would blow through.

21. If something tragic or negative happens to your character, do they believe they may have caused or deserved it, or are they quick to blame others?  Johnny does have a tendency to blame others for bad things that happen in his life.  But deep down, he will feel like he caused it, or at least had a hand in it.  Daniel LaRusso becomes a target for much of the blame, whether rightly or wrongly, mostly because he came to the Valley at a time when Johnny was trying to right some wrongs and things just continued to go downhill.  Johnny and Ali were both passionate and flirtatious people, so fighting and jealousy was common in their relationship.  But they always made up, until the fight during the summer before their senior year.  Ali had a problem with Johnny’s aggression that seemed to stem from his association with Cobra Kai karate.  It hit a head when Johnny beat up a male friend of Ali’s because Johnny felt he was trying to get into Ali’s pants.  Johnny truly did love Ali and loved that she and his little sister Julie got along so well.  After the breakup, Julie took it badly and didn’t talk to him for about a week and vowed never to get close to any of Johnny’s future girlfriends.  Johnny wanted to reconcile with both of his favorite girls.  Newcomer Daniel’s flirtation with his (ex-)girlfriend made things worse and in Johnny’s eyes, kept Ali from getting back together with him.  Eventually, Johnny made himself believe that no other girl could compare to Ali and it wasn’t worth it to put as much (especially emotional involvement) into a relationship.  Johnny and his friends were injured by Daniel’s friend/mentor after a fight that Daniel had initiated with the hose prank.  Johnny lost his last chance to be the All Valley Under-18 Karate Champion.  A loss that Johnny actually took in stride, by choosing to be the one to present the trophy to Daniel and congratulate him.  However, that loss cost him the respect and relationship he had with Sensei Kreese, the most positive paternal influence he had.  Kreese nearly killed him, causing him emotional trauma, which he represses and is a cause of his drinking and depression.  Because of the connections to Daniel, Kreese, and karate, Johnny loses one of the few things that made him strong and feel good about himself.  When his mother died from cancer while he was at college, Johnny outwardly blamed Sid.  He blamed him for his mom getting sick, for causing her so much stress that she didn’t know she was sick, and for not doing enough to save her.  But Johnny also blamed himself for not being there when she needed him and not noticing that she was sick when he was home.  Johnny blames his father for abandoning him, his mother, and especially an unborn Julie.  But even when he was a little boy, he wondered if Daddy left them because of something he did or said.  He blames his father and Sid for being such terrible role models as men and fathers, which is part of the reason why he fails Robby as a father.  He also blames Shannon.  However, Johnny knows that his own lack of interest, his partial unwillingness to stand up to or even work with Shannon, his drinking, and his other bad decisions have led to the estrangement between himself and his son and his son acting out.  When Julie came home from college pregnant at Thanksgiving, he believed that Jimmy took advantage of and seduced her, as well as betrayed their friendship.  He blamed himself more, though.  Johnny always prided himself in being Julie’s protector.  And he feels like he failed her.  He wished that he never let her get so close to the Cobras, particularly Jimmy.  It never occurred to him that Julie’s feelings for Jimmy were more than a childhood crush or that she could have initiated the relationship.  Johnny was angry and disappointed with himself for not sitting her down and having a sex talk with her, despite how embarrassing and painfully awkward it would have been.  He also hates that he never stood up to Sid and insisted that Julie take sex ed classes.

Julie

29. What did your character dream of being or doing as a child? Did that dream come true?  As a child, Julie dreamed of being a writer.  Not an author of a children’s book or a best-seller, though.  Growing up with a stepfather in the film and television industry, and a love of books, television, and film, Julie wanted to be a screenwriter or a writer on a soap opera.  But she never thought she was good enough.  She had a huge and active imagination, always coming up with stories.  But she mostly kept them in her head and when she wrote them down, she would only share them with certain people, such as her mom, Becca, and her favorite teacher.  Asking Sid to read her stories was a thought she never entertained.  The closest Julie ever came to being a writer was a few writing courses in college and becoming a librarian.

40. How does your character treat people in service jobs?  Julie always tries to be polite and kind to everyone.  She isn’t the type of person to go off on a fast food worker or waiter/waitress that got her order wrong or because the food was a bit cold.  If her order was wrong, Julie calmly and quietly informs them and asks for her correct order.  If she isn’t pregnant or breastfeeding, she doesn’t worry as much about the temperature or just won’t eat it.  She is not the parent who thinks that a teacher is out to get her child or tells them they don’t know what they are doing.  

[variousqueerthings]

Daniel & Johnny if they were canonically queer...

oaky real talk what I like about Daniel and Johnny is how tragic the whole thing is, because I love a tragedy 

two boys coming-of-age in the 80s - arguably one of shittiest times to be queer, one of whom “passes” as straight while he performs the toxic masculinity he’s inherited from three male role models (his dad, Sid, Kreese), but always with the awareness that it wasn’t natural - he forced himself into that mold because he himself was a sensitive, hurt boy

the other who arguably doesn’t pass - or has that classic “I don’t know why I dislike him, but I dislike him” queer subtext to him that leads to him getting bullied, because he’s too small, he’s too pretty, dammit it’s too easy to punish him for not being masculine enough

and then it switches on its head and Daniel wins and Johnny hands him the trophy and tells him he’s alright and Kreese punishes Johnny - almost kills him - for failing to Be A Man

and there’s a version of this story where after Miyagi saves Johnny, he and Daniel could’ve become friends, could’ve figured out how to deal with dead fathers, absent fathers, emotionally and physically abusive fathers, (man there’s a Message here about fathers and legacy huh), and... who knows...

but instead they go their separate ways and whatever brief moment of togetherness they experienced as teens with a lot in common that remains unspoken is seemingly washed away by years of never getting to face whatever “waves hands” all of that meant, a connection that was so strong that it lasted across 34 years - 

Daniel’s story continues in the movies obviously, so we see how he goes through it with cobra kai himself, but he emerges out the other side with an on-the-surface decent life that hides all of that repression and insecurity (still coming back to being a man - a good man, but a man who’s also performing through the act of money, and wife, and kids, and house), because Miyagi’s legacy hangs so heavily on him, and so does his past as being poor and smaller and bullied and less-than... 

And Johnny just crashes and doesn’t stop crashing. You get a feeling that there were attempts that probably largely ended once his mum died (which I only just realised was very shortly before Robby was born) and by the time he and Daniel meet again he’s absolutely resigned to the role he’s been cast in this time - from star athlete with a whole future ahead of him to a middle-aged man who can’t hold down a job and doesn’t know how to use a computer 

Both of them constantly, constantly struggling with what is expected of them, either by pushing themself to present the perfect front or by entirely giving up

And neither of them ever acted on the feelings they’ve had about men, starting with the complicated relationship they’d had with one another and then continuing to repress and repress and repress...

Until there it is, the only versions of themselves they’re allowed to be as ostensibly “straight men” - successful business owner with two kids on one side, failed father and alcoholic on the other

and all that time - 34 years - they’ve been circling each other! There were so many opportunities too see each other for years and neither of them took one, even though they’ve clearly been thinking about one another all this time!

and then they meet due to fate’s facepalm making sure that Daniel’s daughter was in the car that rear-ended Johnny’s, that the car was sent to Daniel’s workshop, that Johnny’s son ended up as Daniel’s student... and everything that happens in the show

I don’t even usually like soulmates as a concept, but these two really are fate’s stupidest dumbest most idiotic soulmates, who could’ve been so good for years and years, and now, finally, when they’ve spiralled back into each other, they’re so affected by so many years of not even close to dealing with anything, they don’t even know where to begin, it’s like open wounds of emotions and because they’re the eye of the storm of each other’s lives, they take it out on each other, not realising that they’re the only two people who can help each other make sense of any of it...

As always, there’s three versions of the story - there’s Daniel’s, there’s Johnny’s, and there’s the truth...

[franchisewars-blog]

COBAR KAI: Series Review and Analysis (Spoilers)

If you told me a year ago that I'd stop ignoring all those annoying “Upgrade to YouTube Red!” advertisements for the sake of continuation of the 1980′s hit movie series Karate Kid, I’d have laughed at you.

Yet here we are.

I have a YouTube Red trial subscription. For the sake of Cobra Kai.

And I think it's well worth it.

YouTube released the first two episodes for free, as part of their evil scheme to get my money. And dang it, they got it! Flipping the script on the original movie’s premise and covering things from the perspective of over-the-hill ex-80′s-bully Johnny Lawrence decades later as he tries to make something of his old dojo proves surpsingly effective. Johnny has grown enough to grasp some of the failings of his old Sensei Kreese, and does genuinely try to reinvent Cobra Kai into a more positive force, but comes to find that it wasn't just the teacher that was the problem, but the entire creed. Old hero Daniel LaRusso, meanwhile, must reconnect with the spiritual side of the late Miyagi’s teachings, lest he succumb to the same petty misanthrope that ruined Johnny’s life when Daniel has already achieved a successful business and family life.

And all the while, a new cast of teenagers, including the children of both adult protagonists and new Karate Kid/Cobra Kai prodigy Miguel, all come to find how history repeats if old men don't learn their lessons...

This show may not have premium cable quality in everything, but manages a strong ensemble, excellent pace, and sharp and witty writing. And, in part thanks to the expanded nature of a series versus a movie, the show has an excellent hold on its themes of growth, maturity, and the sad cycle of bullying, as we'll as a tragic and heartwarming take on the paternal themes of the old movies.

Seriously, watch this show.

SPOILERS!

Johnny and Daniel have the largest character arcs, and the series figures out just the right amount of flaws and virtues to get you invested in both. Johnny's got the more classic tragic hero story, trying to rise above his past demons and to learn and grow, but blindsided by the flaws he was unaware of... Until it's too late and he's left to view the ugly side of his triumphs in his students. Daniel, meanwhile, is still overall a virtuous and forthright man, but he starts the show unbalanced enough to make some serious mistakes and eventually realizes he must reconnect with Miyagi's teachings before he goes off course.

The kids are a tangle of stories. Miguel starts off as pretty much a classic "Karate Kid" protagonist, and the first half of the show follows that outline pretty faithfully... And then the last half forces the audience and Johnny to see the flaws in Cobra Kai philosophy that make this kid repeat history that Johnny realizes should not be repeated. Sam LaRusso is a good character, with her biggest advantage that they do manage to push her past the "love interest" archetype via her friendship with the frankly awesome Aisha, though they probably can do more interesting stuff next season. Aisha and Eli are both fairly well developed characters, and a very accurate presentation of the benefits of martial arts in assertiveness and defense... And for how bullying cycles around more often then not, with Cobra Kai eventually molding them into classic physical bullies to contrast with the modern cyberbullying and point out how both styles are ultimately messed up petty misanthropy if you don't control yourself.

And the humor of the series is great! From Daniel as the embarrassing dad to Johny as the man so old school that his response to a former All-Valley Tournament champion hogging the mic to talk about peace and harmony is "Kick this sissy ***** in the face," they know how to play with their themes in a humorous style, simulataneously mocking self-aggrandizing mock morality and mocking the thuggish response of its opposite.

Probably the least interesting aspect of the show is Robby, though only because he's written as less of a character and more of an irony-leaden plot device. The actor does a good job, but you can tell they rushed through his "Karate kid" arc because they knew we'd already seen it with Miguel. He's also got more potential for next season. Still, he allows them to zero in on their reconstruction of Cobra Kai’s flaws and Miyagi-do’s higher standards.

And I really like how slowly they reintroduced Kreese almost as a theme before actually having him return. Johnny's clearly complicated feelings towards the man are a fairly dark undercurrent when they periodically re-emerge, and the way Johnny Reacts to realizing he's becoming the same kind of teacher in spite of himself is actually kind of heartbreaking. And it says something about the nature of the show and Johnny's arc that, while Daniel is moving towards rebuilding and continuing Miyagi's legacy for the better, Johnny has almost accidentally conjured Kreese up in the flesh from the nether when you know he'd rather exorcise that particular demon.

Hopper’s Recommendation: Watch this baby!

[purpleheartskies]

At this point, Robby has lost pretty much everything. People saying that Robby "won" in life this season seriously don't know what the hell they're talking about. Even Tanner keeps saying that he just wants Robby to win something. Robby has always been the underdog in the story, and seeing Robby overcome all the odds that are against him to have real wins in life and a win in the world tournament would be a true underdog story.

[purpleheartskies]

(These are general thoughts and not directed at anyone in particular.)

Most fans believe that Robby magically got over all his traumas after what he endured in ep5 this season and his traumas are no more. There's a lack of logical thinking behind this.

In the show itself, Tory gets real therapy, Kreese gets real therapy, and Silver is said to have had real therapy, but Robby was forced into a physical fight that he didn't want plus he had to relive the worst moment of his life and bear all the blame for the school fight plus he got the news that he'll now have no chance to be a priority in his father's life after being ignored by him pretty much his whole life, and fans believe Robby is magically free of trauma after all this, even though all of these experiences are also traumatic for Robby.

I won't even blame the writers for this lack of logic on the fans' parts. We've been told that the show is about every character having their own perspective, and people refuse to understand, or even consider, Robby's perspective.

One thing I've learned about this show is that it's full of relevant context and contrasts. There is a lot of consistency in the characterizations and storytelling approach throughout too. And, just because you're presented with something doesn't mean you're supposed to mindlessly believe it.

People actually take everything that Johnny does and says seriously even though Johnny is presented as the main source of comedy and the main cause of the lot of the problems on the show. Johnny is also still portrayed as a loser and an asshole. This is all in the story for anyone to see. When it comes to Johnny's behavior towards Robby this season, people don't want to acknowledge that what Johnny did is abusive and unacceptable. Johnny doesn't believe it's abusive, so it's framed as not being abusive because it's framed based on his perspective. It's just "classic Johnny" or toxic masculinity or so. But the audience can apply their own logical thinking to what they see and hear in the show.

And, the audience seems to overlook that they are presented with a contrast to Johnny's toxic approach through Robby's non-toxic approach.

Even though Robby was subjected to that fight by Johnny so that Miguel could get over his issues with Robby, later in the season, Robby didn't encourage a fight between Kenny and Anthony. At the trials, when Kenny confronted Robby about now training his bully, Robby still believed in non-violent resolutions for these types of situations and encouraged one for them. Robby specifically told Kenny that he and Anthony should get to know each other. Robby didn't mindlessly say that Kenny and Anthony should beat the shit out of each other so that only one of them could get a proper resolution to their rivalry and they can become instant, fake friends. In fact, when Robby went to the Cobra Kai dojo to speak to the students and to confront Silver, Robby looked at Kenny and still said that there is "another way".

We also see another contrast immediately after Kenny walks away from Robby at the trials. In s4, after Hawk had quit Cobra Kai and joined Eagle Fang, Johnny treated Hawk like shit during trainings as punishment even though Johnny knows what it's like to be Kreese's student in Cobra Kai and to be brainwashed. In this scene in s5, after Kenny walked away from Robby, Hawk told Robby that Hawk'll shut Kenny up (during their match) and Robby told Hawk not to go too hard on Kenny, that Hawk remembers what it's like to be in Cobra Kai and that was just Silver talking.

I know the writers bear blame for how the show is framed and marketed, but it's still up to the audience to decide how they interpret any form of media they consume. There are others like myself who see a lot of the nuance in the show, but people dismiss us as over-analyzing and the show as dumb. But, stories don't just sprout from the ground. They are thought-out and built. And anyone who spends a little time paying attention to the details in the show will realize that there is more to the story than meets the eye.

When it comes to Robby's traumas, it makes no sense to believe this traumatic approach to resolving Robby's traumas was a miracle success because "this is the world of the show" or whatever reasoning people come up with to excuse / enjoy it, when clearly real therapy exists in "the world of the show" and Robby's traumas are portrayed too realistically to be magically cured in such a disgraceful way. What happened in ep 5 was meant to traumatize Robby further so that he became compliant to have a place in Johnny's life, but people find Johnny's unconventional and toxic approach entertaining, so they don't want to see it any other way or some people even brush it off as "the writers didn't mean for us to interpret it that way (as abusive)". But, we should call it out for what it is.

Also, about Daniel and his suggestion that he and Johnny should have fought it out in the past. In s4, Silver was manipulating Daniel in their conversation in the store, but one thing Silver said about Daniel is true: Daniel does have Cobra Kai in him and he just needs to be wound up. This has actually been shown to us throughout the series. Daniel doesn't strike first usually, but he does lose his balance easily. And Daniel was pretty off balance for most of this season because of his past trauma due to Silver. Daniel's suggestion to Johnny went against the show's core messaging and Mr. Miyagi's teachings. But, Robby has also been shown to be a more natural Miyagi-Do than Daniel, and again, Robby later encouraged a Miyagi-Do solution as the solution for a rivalry.

People are always drawing parallels between Kenny / Robby and Robby / Johnny or Robby / Daniel, etc. But the contrasts between Robby's behavior and Johnny's and Daniel's behaviors are there for us to see as well and are sometimes the meaningful takeaways.