#CONVINCED BY ODYSSEUS

[stormbreaker101]

I still can't get over the Circe Saga.

Hermes gives Odysseus a tool to even the playing field. He anticipates and encourages Odysseus to overpower her on a physical, magical, and sexual level. He phrases this help as "us[ing] more than words." He wants Odysseus to give up speech and mercy as much as the other gods do.

But ultimately it's Odysseus's words that save him and his crew. It's him telling Circe about his faith to Penelope that convinces her to help him.

There are other ways of persuasion, indeed.

[mythology-void]

okay so I was doing a Research™️ about ancient Greek etymology as one does and I found some Things that made me want to Violently Claw My Arms Off please allow me to force feed you my discoveries

So there are 2 words for "not" in ancient Greek, depending on the context: ou and mē. Having introduced himself in the Cyclops episode as " ou tis", or No-man, he then stabs Polyphemus in the eye. When Polyphemus' brothers come to check on him, they say this:

"... surely no man [mē tis] is carrying off your sheep? Surely no man [mē tis] is trying to kill you either by fraud or by force?"

Right after this, after the other cyclopes ditch Polyphemus, Odysseus's inner monologue goes something like this:

"Then they went away, and I laughed inwardly at the success of my clever strategem [metis]." (pronounced mEH-Tis)

Now, there's a difference between mē tis and metis. [mē tis] (pronounced mEH-Tis with a space between the syllables) is the literal translation for "no man". Metis is a word for extreme intelligence/cunning, which is something Odysseus is famous for.

Now, there are several examples of abuse of metis/intelligence in the Odyssey, but I think the juxtaposition between [mē tis], or the concept of anonymity, and metis, or extreme intelligence, is REALLY interesting. Odysseus's adoption of the title "No-man" was characteristic of metis--it was a really smart move that simultaneously hid him from the cyclops and avoided any future consequences. It was a highly effective strategy all wrapped up in a nest little package with a bow on it.

But when he revealed himself as Odysseus of Ithaca, effectively throwing off No-man (anonymity and [mē tis]), that was characterized as idiocy--he's essentially doxxed himself, and now he's doing to (spoiler alert) get tossed around the Mediterranean by Poseidon for the next 10 years.

This is really interesting because it lets you see the parallels/codependency between metis(intelligence) and humility. When Odysseus refused to allow himself to go unnoticed (hubris) he suffered for it. BUT when he declined instant glory/satisfaction (kleos) in order to achieve the long term goal of survival, he was rewarded with Athena's favor (pay attention. This part is important).

And this situation repeats itself MULTIPLE TIMES in the Odyssey--the EXACT SAME THING happens near the end of the book, with the suitors. When. Odysseus is dressed as a beggar and the suitors/Antinious are abusing him, he ACTIVELY CHOOSES not to react--he doesn't stand up and rip off his disguise and start hollering "TIS I, ODYSSEUS OF ITHACA! FEAR MY WRATH"

No. He sits there patiently and waits. He plans and schemes and quietly orchestrates their downfall without alerting them of it. Why? Because he learned his lesson the first time this happened. He buried his rage and adopted what was, according to Grace LA Franz, a more feminine form of metis, weaving a web of destruction for his enemies that ultimately resulted in their total annihilation (see Weaving a Way to Nostos: Odysseus and Feminine Metis in the Odyssey by Grace LaFranz). His patience allowed him to win the whole prize--no questions asked, no 10-year-long-business-trip strings attached--just the sweetness of a full victory. And he is, once again, rewarded with Athena's favor--both in the battle with the suitors and in the aftermath (cleanup/reuniting with Penelope).

This really reinforces the idea in the Odyssey that Odysseus's defining characteristic is not just his intelligence--it's his ability to learn from his mistakes. He used what he learned at the Lotus Eaters Island against Polyphemus--the Lotus Eaters drugged his men, so he drugged Polyphemus. He used what he learned from Circe and Polyphemus against the suitors--Circe used false sweetness and honeyed words to lure his men into a trap, so that's exactly what he did to the suitors. His hubris on Polyphemus' island cost his whole crew their lives, so he intentionally left well enough alone until the right time. He didn't just learn from his failures--he turned them into BATTLE STRATEGY.

i don't care what anyone says that is completely totally and objectively awesome

[backpackingspace]

Okay but have we thought about how scary odysseus interacting with the gods /his knowledge about such things it must have been for his crew?

Its well known that odysseus is Athenas favorite, even before the Trojan war. But what does that look like from the outside? Are their conversations in some other plain? Does odysseus sometimes just glaze over and you just have to trust its a god speaking to him and not aome other fit? Out in the open? During the war odysseus was frequently doing really bizarre things on Athena's say so. Bit you also know your captain is a freak and lier so which is it this time? The gods will or odysseus just tucking with you? There's a little wariness there. But it's well known. And been like this forever.

But then you start encountering more monsters. More gods. They all talk to your captain. Your captain stops sleeping. Your go between for you and the captain starts committing crimes against the captain, starts bad mouthing him. More of your friends have died then in ten years of war. And every other day there's a new god talking to your captain. What mortal man has the interest of this many gods? What mortal man can get up in the gods faces to yell at them. What mortal man has the powers to overcome the witches they encounter the power to over turn gods spells? What mortal man's tongue is so gilded he convinces these powers to help them? And doubt comes creeping in.

[little-cereal-draws]

Penelope: BE A BETTER PERSON! Odysseus: WHY?! Penelope: BECAUSE SOMEONE NEEDS TO HAVE MORALS IN THIS RELATIONSHIP, AND IT SURE AS FUCK AIN'T GONNA BE ME, SWEETHEART!

[zarnzarn]

The doors to Olympus are sturdy and strong, given everyone's preferences for drama and slamming said doors open and sending them cracking into the wall whenever the opportunity arises. Which is why it's a surprise when they creak open during the once-a-decade pantheon meeting; less so because no entity worth their salt would take so long to open the doors, and more so because everyone who is anyone is already there.

But if everyone is being honest with themselves- which no one is, usually- these gatherings are boring enough that the bland conversation is dropped immediately in favour of craning their necks to catch a glimpse of whatever is coming to relieve them of their boredom.

When the doors finally open however, several of the pantheon murmur in surprise.

"Odysseus," Athena whispers, wide-eyed as she pushes herself off her throne to her feet. It is him- in the king's garb he was buried in but the face he has when he reached home, hair till the shoulders and speckled with grey, face oddly blank. His feet are transparent.

"What are you doing here, sceptre?" Poseidon booms, hair the color of a stormy sea. Zeus, beside him, looks reserved, observing the ghost with something approaching curiosity- eyes flicking to the lightning scars on his daughter's face and back. "Your time has long passed, and Hades-"

"It is a temporary agreement," Odysseus says curtly, barely sparing him a glance as he approaches his patron. "Athena."

Her armour clinks as she steps forward and the gods all twitch, trading glances. Owls are silent creatures- to have her aspect so affected to make noise was... uneasy to say the least. She even holds herself different than usual, something like confused delight shining in her eyes. "How did you-"

"Did you sleep with my wife?"

The throne room is silent. Several jaws drop.

Athena straightens back up, blinking in surprise. She looks a bit shifty, some of the nymphs closest whisper to each other, which- well, almost every single god present owed some part of their existence to the mere story of Odysseus loving his wife.

Would he fight his own patron goddess over it in front of Mount Olympus, though? He certainly was unbalanced enough; Athena herself looked rather uncertain of her odds, even though-

"Are you addled in death, King of Ithaka?" Artemis drawls, looking amused. "Did you forget that your own patron is celibate? Whatever rumor you-"

"No, I-" Athena says suddenly, shifting her spear to her other hand. "I did."

Artemis chokes on her breath and several assorted divine beings gasp in shock and the rest shouting for explanations, although everyone is nearly drowned out by Aphrodite's loud, "WHAT?"

Odysseus inhales sharply and pinches the bridge of his nose. "I cannot believe you."

"She asked-" Athena starts, only to be drowned out by the din of various beings screeching and shouting about the scandal.

"ATHENA!" Hera hisses, peacock tail fanning behind her sharply as she pushes herself up. "Explain yourself!"

Athena half-turns to face her, face creased in a frown. "Mother, I-"

"LET ME REPHRASE!" Odysseus cuts in loudly, and the shouting settles down into silence. He walks to his patron, eyes blazing. "I cannot believe," he throws his clenched fists wide as he growls the last word, "-you took Penelope to bed-" Athena surprisingly stays still as he reaches her, mouth falling open as he grabs her by the chiton to yank her down, uncaring of the gasps of horror from all around as he snarls, "-before you ever kissed me."

And then Odysseus grabs Athena by the face roughly and kisses her.

This time Aphrodite's shriek cannot be escaped by anyone.

"Aphrodite, please," Zeus says a few moments later, wincing as his throne reforms around him, stained oddly pink. Quite a few minor entities have discorporated, and the ones nearest to her are still trying to regenerate their hearing. "Control yourself."

Their eyes land back on where Athena has dropped her spear- dropped her spear, Ares in the corner seems to be having some minor hysteria over this, well warranted- and is also on the floor, still being thoroughly kissed by that insufferable, mannerless hero of hers, perched on her stomach to reach. Zeus inhales in fury, Poseidon close behind him as the shock wears off, lightning crackling around his fingers as he opens his mouth to shout- of all the indignities-

"If you two ruin this for me," Aphrodite thunders, warping in front of them and glaring. "I will make you both regret it."

Both gods visibly blanch at the threat, taken aback for one brief moment. Threats from Aphrodite are far worse than any of her more violent siblings, at the end of the day.

Zeus visibly gathers himself just as Athena's helmet clatters to the floor, and he gains a second wind immediately, eye twitching as he spreads a hand to the spectacle in the middle of the hall. "WHAT MANNER OF DISRESPECT IS THIS? TO BARGE INTO OUR MEETING AND THROW ONE OF THE OLDEST GODDESSES TO THE FLOOR LIKE A COMMON WENCH-"

"Zeus," Hera says quietly. Everyone falls silent, although it's not quite enough to stop the two tangled together on the ground. She clears her throat, which finally seems to get through to Athena, who had finally seemed to have gotten over her shock enough to reach out, hands hovering over Odysseus hesitantly. Still, at the noise she seems to remember herself, pushing herself up on an elbow and dislodging him enough to break their necking. He pouts at her, but Athena's eyes are too glazed over to notice, heaving for breath.

Hera opens her mouth to speak, crown manifesting on her brow as she steps in front of the throne, but closes it as the door rattles again.

This time, the spectre shimmers with a faint hint of scales that comes with a freshwater nymph's heritage and excited whispers starved for drama explode across the room as the Queen of Ithaka steps into the room, skirts hitched in her hand and panting as if she'd been running.

"Your Graces," She bows respectfully before entering, Spartan princess through and through, until she catches sight of her husband and Athena, the former of whom seems to have taken the opportunity to start kissing the wisdom goddess again, fingers in her curls.

"What are you doing?" She snaps, rushing over. The entire courtroom holds its breath. She slaps her husband upside the head, making him yelp and move back to shoot her a betrayed look. Athena looks even further dazed than before, cheeks red. "Argos has more manners than you! No wonder Lady Athena wanted nothing to do with you- ah, hello, darling, by the way."

"Penelope," Athena murmurs hoarsely, and the Queen of Ithaka leans down to kiss her as well.

Odysseus chuckles, then jumps with everyone else as Hera slams a hand down on the throne elegantly, cracking it to the base.

"Ah, goddess-" He says, clambering off Athena to bow.

"Silence," Hera interrupts, holding up a hand, eyes cold. "You will not say anything to me apart from an explanation. My agreement for your release from Ogygia was due to the assurance that your marriage was one of the truest I have ever witnessed, conveyed by Athena herself when bartered with all of us to let you go. Tell me, was it a ploy? Because from the disgraceful looks of it, this seems to not be the case in the slightest."

Odysseus frowns, face twisting in confusion. "Athena bartered with...?" He turns to look at his patron, who stares back, unspeaking. His eyes flicker to the lightning scar over her right eye as Penelope traces it with horrified eyes and a gentle thumb, and understanding seems to dawn.

For a moment, rage seems to fill him, glaring with a hatred towards Zeus that everyone whispered later wasn't met by the god king with anger, but a flicker of remorse- before he visibly throws it away behind Athena's old smile and bows.

"God-queen," He says formally, gracefully. Hera twitches a bit, and they'll all talk later about how odd it was to so clearly see Athena's younger mannerisms in the man, down to the curl of the letters. "My marriage to Penelope has never been false, never been broken, this I promise you." He takes Penelope's hand and squeezes it for emphasis, and she raises them as acknowledgement. "But... can you not argue that Athena has been part of our marriage all this time? From its start, where she advised me on courting and her on what to look for, to the twenty years she spent with both of us- me on the battlefield and Penelope in the court; to say nothing of how she helped raise our son and lived in our palace in the days after. And is she not so unbearably beautiful that even my Penelope couldn't wait-" He shoots a glare at her, which Penelope returns with a smile. "-when the chance was presented? How can you fault us for disgrace, after being so long apart from our wife?"

Hera raises both eyebrows at the impudence, the kind of disbelieving expression that hides a warning to tread carefully. "So you claim to be both married to Pallas Athena?"

"In every way that matters except legality," Odysseus says, fearlessly. He is dead, after all, what much can you do to a shade that they didn't already put him through when alive. He is sort of worried about Athena, though, as they both help her back to her feet, Penelope busy whispering compliments and updates and endearments in turn- she's not usually one to be quiet in face of a problem.

Hera tilts her head. "Ah, but you see. I need the legality, if I am to finally-" A helpless, excited smile pulls at her lips once, twice, before unfolding into a bright grin, peacock tails unfolding to their full wingspan. "-finally arrange for a marriage for my eldest daughter who has not once- oh finally, I can hardly believe this day has come-"

"I do not like the way you grabbed her, Sacker of Troy," Ares steps forward as Hera starts ranting half to herself, half to an equally loud assemblage of joyful entities about wedding arrangements, eyes narrowed.

Odysseus barks an incredulous, loud laugh, gesturing to Athena with a slightly crazed look in his eyes. "This lady has broken- and I do not exaggerate- every single bone in my body before I saw my sixteenth year. I have punched her a hundred times in the face when she taught me how to fight. We'll survive, thanks."

"That is fair," Ares steps back, hands raised.

"What duties will you provide as spouses, Ithakan Queen?" Hestia questions, stepping forward.

"Oh, the same we did when we were living," Penelope huffs a laugh. "Keep her busy, make her laugh, be of mild frustration to her, love her well, worship her-"

"I do not. Need to know," Hestia closes her eyes and raises a hand to cut her off, stepping back. Around them, the din catches speed and volume as no further objections arise, excitement spilling into the air.

"What is happening?" Athena says faintly, looking around as if she was just waking up.

"-oh, and we can get out the decor once more! Hebe, Aphrodite, loves, do you remember where we kept the fountains-"

"-finally, a reason to celebrate! Call them all out of hiding-"

"-can't believe this is finally happening, oh sister, what songs should we-

"Why am I getting married," Athena says with much more alarm and horror. She turns to Odysseus and shakes him by the shoulder, eyes wild. "What did you do?"

"Nothing!"

"How is this nothing? Do you have any idea the headache-"

"Athena, sweetheart, will you consider changing into that beautiful piece you made for the ceremony?"

Creakily, she turns her head to Hera, disbelief pasted across her face. "Mother," She says slowly. "They are both dead."

"Oh, I'll make a deal with Hades or something, you hush!" Aphrodite leans forward and snaps, before her irritation melts back into a manic joy. "Oh, what paint shall we do?"

Paint, Athena mouths, looking afraid for possibly the first time since her conception.

Penelope laughs and tugs on Athena's hand to make her turn, tucking dishevelled curls behind her ear. She wonders if the goddess knows how beautiful she is when she's flustered. "Take us away," She whispers. On Athena's other side, Odysseus leans against their patron with a besotted, helpless smile as he stares up at her, her helmet and spear in hand. She'd missed Athena like a limb, missed her deep laugh at night when they'd discussed the day's court, the dry jokes, the hands over hers as she weaved- but Odysseus wasn't himself without her, happy though they were in Hades' lands together, all of them.

"I'm-" Athena wavers, then looks around once more at all the excited screaming, something unreadable flashing in her eyes. Almost against her will, her eyes fall to Zeus, who is sitting silently and staring back at her. Poseidon looks like he still wants to start a fight, but clearly by his wary looks below can tell he will be heavily outnumbered by the overexcited crowd to not try, but Zeus just stares back at her, face blank of any emotion.

"We ask you formally this time," King Odysseus says, walking in front of her to take her attention away, holding onto her hand. His voice has strength in it, drawing the eyes of the murmuring crowd, but he's deaf to it as he stares up at her.

"Will you be our wife?" Queen Penelope asks, joining him, watching their beautiful patron shudder for breath she does not need as her eyes flick to one of them and then the other.

"Yes," She whispers and cheers erupt all across Mount Olympus.

"Finally!" Odysseus complains, and then pulls her down once more to kiss her, all three of them fading at the edges as one of the generous gods present there- who seems to realize that they're not very inclined to stop anytime soon- thankfully teleports them away into a nice room with a large bed.

"Finally," He whispers as he breaks apart to lay her down, cupping her face, voice heavy with the longing of a full lifetime and more. Penelope circles to the head of the bed and starts undoing Athena's braid, staring at them both lovingly.

Later the ones closest will murmur, as the silhouettes faded away, that tears had slipped from proud Pallas Athena's eyes as she placed one hand against Odysseus' cheek, trembling.

"I missed you," She will whisper back, and all three of them fade away to their own story, yet to be made.

[o3o-lapd-o3o]

i was listening to six hundred stike again (for the 9227582475827589 time) and the little

"oooohhh~ aaaahh~" (which i think is meant to be a throwback to aeolus's theme)

you hear at the beginning before the chants of

"600 men"

makes me wonder,,,, was aeolus trying to help odysseus, calling him to open the wind bag to beat poseidon?

....but the winions did tell him in dangerous

"it was meant to stop you by design"

so were they wanting him to open it and fail again??? almost like a siren's call to open the bag?

maybe... because as hermes said in dangerous

"we went through so much to get this"

as in aeolus didn't willingly hand it over this time? (hermes is the god thieves don't forget, he's stolen from gods before. he was only a baby when he stole apollo's cattle. how hard can a wind bag be?)

but either way what i don't think they expected was for

odysseus "i have the power of friendship & divine rage on my side" of ithaca

to then use said wind bag as a ye olde greek jetpack and (monsterously) curb stomp poseidon till he begs for mercy (and sounds so good doing it too) (sorry not sorry)

[ironsoftie]

Telemachus is definitely getting the youngest child treatment from Athena, meanwhile Odysseus was her oldest child and it shows.

[lyculuscaelus]

With all these “anime screams” in 600 Strike of Epic the musical, I’d say Odysseus is getting to be good with war-cries (or if you will, a master of the war-cry). Plus the fact that he’s literally stabbing a god, using a trident to tame the god of horses?

Diomedes is suspiciously behind all this. Verily.

[randommmthoughts]

Odysseus: Only this raft that I made by hand

The raft in question:

[sirjo-esque]

Okay but genuinely though why does Athena choose to convince 5 other gods instead of just Zeus like how difficult can that be for her c'mon

[theodysseyofhomer]

it's certainly true that odysseus doesn't know telemakhos as a person; until he comes home he can only ever love the idea of him. but i don't honestly believe that it makes it less real/convincing when telemakhos walking into the room strikes him dumb for 80 lines, or when he describes hearing him speak as a wound, or when odysseus spends years at war naming himself as beloved telemakhos' father rather than laertes' son. those are all expressions of love and longing. mid-thought-vomit counterpoint: i still read the odysseus-penelope reunion as one where being loved is being known/recognized/understood, which is impossible with telemakhos... but it's also to be searched out, right? and telemakhos can participate in that (both the literal attempt to discover odysseus in the telemachia and the process from odysseus' reveal->working together to clean out the house).

so, so, so. penelope has to be able to recognize odysseus, so he can't just tell her who he is. telemakhos can't recognize him even after he's told. but maybe it's less that knowing-and-being-known is impossible with telemakhos and more that it requires testing out, which could make both reunions different shades of the same belief the odyssey holds about the nature of love[/whatever else you want to call it; i know that "love" is a modern and to some degree fandom-brained reading, but sorry, i love estranged families]

[maxx-the-queer]

call me odysseus of ithaca the way that I just lie the moment someone asks me a question about myself

[backpackingspace]

WAIT DO WE THINK ATHENA KNOWS ABOUT THE SECERT PASSAGEWAYS?!

[wishicouldpostfromsecondaryblogs]

"Your sharp tongue might have worked on every man from the Mediterranean to the strangers of the north," Penelope tells him, grabbing Odysseus by the chin and shaking him. "But you are not getting out of holding court."

[zarnzarn]

after the events of three in the morning, safe inside Athena just kinda tucked ody under her wings.

Idk why I think that but anyway it's cannon now that after ody gets thoroughly fucked Athena pulls him close and wraps her wings around him like a cocoon

yessss she sort of chirrups and coos down at him with the owl head tilting, nuzzling at him as she cleans up. she'd do it to penelope too but homegirl is practically steaming from how overheated all the exercise made her so she just goes and usually falls asleep face down on the bed until she's cool enough that athena can drag her closer as well.

in general i think athena would be there for the aftercare because I don't see post canon odypen knowing when to call it quits, which leads to both of them being absolutely exhausted and useless after the last round. she usually just rolls her eyes shakes her head and handles it all; but they both know she's awake for hours just trilling down at them and staring happily.

[twomanyfandomshelp]

If you haven’t listened to the Underworld Saga yet, here’s your spoiler warning.

@thekingofworems @jarondont @aaronofithaca05 @nyx-of-darkness-1620 did y’all get a chance to listen yet? I need people to talk about this with!

Apologies in advance for all the capslock you’re about to see.

Y’ALL

I CAN’T

MR. JORGE, MR. JALAPEÑO

WHY MUST YOU BREAK MY HEART LIKE THIS

THE UNDERWORLD

POLITES?!?! THE EMOTION IN ODYSSEUS’ VOICE WHEN HE HEARD POLITES?!?! QUIETLY SAYING HIS NAME AS THEY SAIL AWAY LIKE HE’S APOLOGIZING?!?!?! DJFNSISYDJSUDB

ODYSSEUS’ MOM?!?!?! I WAS NOT EXPECTING THAT!!!! “Even if you’re the last thing I see I’ll be waiting” “I’m right here mom, can’t you see me?” OH MY FUCKING GOD SIR!!!! JORGE!!!! “I took too long and ventured too far” SIR MY HEART IS BREAKING!!!! “I’ll always love you, I’ll stay in your heart” SIR YOU’RE DOING THIS ON PURPOSE!!!! THE SOFT LITTLE “bye mom” AS THEY SAILED AWAY?!?! FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY BY JORGE JUST BELTING HIS HEART OUT?!?! *HIGH PITCHED SCREAMING* ALSO, THE NAMES LISTED ON THE SONG INCLUDE WANDA HERRANS, ARE YOU TELLING ME JORGE’S MOM VOICES ODYSSEUS’ MOM?!

NO LONGER YOU

MASON OLSHAVSKY’S VOICE IS SO GOOD!!THIS WHOLE SONG IS PERFECTION!! “This can’t be, we’ve suffered and sailed through the toughest of hells, now you tell us our efforts for nothing” EXCUSE ME MR. HERRANS WHAT THE HECK! “I see your palace covered in red, faces of men who had long believed you dead, I see your wife with a man who is haunting, and man with a trail of bodies” THE FORESHADOWING?! THE WAY ODYSSEUS REACTED WHEN TIRESIAS SAID HE SAW PENELOPE WITH A MAN WITH A LINE OF BODIES?! HIS OUTRAGED “WHO!!!”SIR?!?!?!?! THAT’S YOU MY GUY!!! YOU’RE THE HAUNTING GUY WITH A TRAIL OF BODIES!!!

MONSTER

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS SONG SINCE I HEARD THE FIRST SNIPPET AND IT DID NOT DISAPPOINT!!! OH MY GOD WHAT THE HELL I HAVE NO WORDS!!! THIS IS MY NEW FAVORITE EPIC SONG!!! I kinda knew that was gonna happen but shh 🤫

I’m not gonna talk about this song because if I do it will end up being an essay. Might make a separate post about it though.

I WILL BE LISTENING TO THIS SAGA ON REPEAT ALL DAY AND NO ONE CAN STOP ME!!!