#Babs is having a.... kinda crisis?

[idontcaboose]

Haunted Car Au Part 12

Previous. Masterpost

Danny wasn't completely sure what all of the sound files Duke uploaded into the radio storage. Granted, the fact that there was apparently a 10 Terabyte hard drive just for the radio seemed a bit much, although it was over half full before Duke gave him a metric butt load of sound bytes, so maybe Batman was onto something. Now it was about three-quarters full…. How many files were there?

Either way, whoever named these files are the MvP of this entire situation. Either they were just the name of the saying, or we're named something like ‘exasperated 4’ and they were On Point!

Unfortunately there weren't any defined names other than movie references. Why were there three different versions of the “Hey, Becky, look at her butt” Danny didn't know, but he might use them for reasons.

Duke had left him alone with a disgruntled “Good Luck” after Danny started playing the ‘mood’ files to see exactly what they were. He figured Duke would come back in a few hours to have a “conversation” about his predicament. Until then……

DID THEY SOUND BYTE BATMAN HIMSELF?!?!?!

Next

@kizzer55555 @sebas-nights @candeartist422 @trappednyourheart @fandom-life-corrupted-me @tkiesai @2lbballpeenhammer @admiralwidow @rewrittenwrongs @whotfevenknowsanymore @symmetricalastigmatism @thespacedragons @atinygracie @okami-love @lesbian-spider-drone @1n0sss @forgetmenot-bluepurple

[welcometogrouchland]

Was skimming through some Dixon era BoP for no particular reason and came across a scene where 3 DIFFERENT MEN (Dick Grayson, Ted Kord and Jason Bard) all show up to Babs' door at almost exactly the same time bc they're all in love with her.

Birds of Prey (1999) #19

Which is, A) really funny on its own and B) actually extremely based from a representational view. Oracle was important as disability rep in comics for a lot of reasons, one of which being that she got mad bitches in her wheelchair. She had too much swag and they had to kill her

[menop033]

My favorite crimes Barbara Gordon has committed

Full disclosure, I am considering only New Earth Babs because the other versions are simply inferior. I will ignore the typical masked adventurer crimes she did as Batgirl, like assault, breaking and entering, trespassing, obstructing justice and vigilantism. I will also not really consider the very classic Oracle shenanigans like hacking, accessing some databases she probably shouldn't, stealing from rich criminals to fund her own (kinda criminal) operation, invading privacy and literally doing illegal spy work with Birds of Prey. Because those are boring and I want something that's not just another Tuesday. So, in no particular order:

Changing the light on traffic lights

Stupid and small but I love it. Very iconic and very Barbara-like.

+Extra Helena who has very logical and understandable qualms about Oracle's power and influence

[Birds of Prey (1999) #58]

Blackmailing Catwoman into returning stolen paintings

And threatening to send her money to charities. Catwoman begrudgingly obliged.

I am not too sure about what happened leading to that moment. That comic didn't have a particularly strong story. I think Selina stole them while Barbara was still Batgirl?

Either way, the ending is pretty memorable for me. Ultimate irony - threatening her into returning stolen goods by stealing funds from her.

[Birds of Prey: Catwoman/Oracle]

Making a deal with Gotham City's emergency services

and then using the tech she implemented to override the control of the vehicles when needed. Or, when she wants to. This one instance was because Steph just got shot in the head and didn't really want to end up in an ER where her mother worked, exposing her (third) secret identity. It worked out so yay?

[Batgirl (2009) #6]

Sort of kidnapping Wendy Harris

To be fair, she did it because Calculator, Oracle's arch nemesis and Wendy's father, was endangering her and she did it to protect her but a little more explanation couldn't hurt. But that wouldn't be Barbara without her genial tendency to keep everyone but herself in the dark. I guess she really did keep Wendy in the dark. In the basement.

[Batgirl (2009) #11]

Political corruption

We never get to learn what exactly she did. She just said that many leaders owe her their positions. it sure as hell doesn't sound legal. World-wide corruption? Why not. Entirely too much power for one person to hold. 10/10

Also, I bet you that those power grids aren't exactly controlled legally.

[Birds of Prey (1999) #103]

Blowing up a government facility and getting rid of some evidence

Well, Cass decided to break into a government facility and free a terrorist to prove a point that everyone can change. And in doing so she left them some photo, video and DNA evidence.

Oracle therefore later sent her back there to destroy it, blowing the building up in the process. Oh and she also presumably helped the guy get fake documents but that's not 100% confirmed (Cass said that it's from her friends as she gave them to him).

She really cares about her not-quite-daughter <3

[Batgirl (2000) #17]

Her father/uncle (the Gordon family was kind of a mess after Crisis) might be the commissioner of Gotham but she clearly doesn't respect the law in the slightest. They love eachother, of course, they just don't share the same views on the law.

I simply enjoy how unhinged her methods sometimes usually are and we need to recognise that. Also, while we are at it, get rid of Prime Earth Barbara's characterisation and bring back the competent and sarcastic control-freak.

[seilnakyle]

do you have any dickbabs reading recommendations (especially if they're babs focused)? I read batgirl year one and some nightwing too, but I would love to delve deeper into their relationship

thank you sm in advance 🙏

They just don’t do slow burn in comics like Dickbabs anymore ♥️

If you’re coming right off batgirl year one (masterpiece. Redefined my life. Forever altered my brain) I definitely recommend you read Nightwing Year one as well, (starts at issue #101 of Nightwing (1996)

In this list I have included everything I can, but If I missed anything significant please feel free to let me know!

Pre-Crisis:

Detective Comics (1937): #359

The Batman Family (1975): #1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 20

POST CRISIS:

Robin Year One (2000): #4

Batgirl Year One (2003)

Nightwing Year One - Nightwing (1996): #101-106

Nightwing (1995): #2

Nightwing (1996): #0.5, 7, 14, 16-18, 19, 20, 24, 25, 37, 38-87, 88, 89, 100, 104, 109, 117, 153 (this isn’t EVERY issue Babs is in but all the important ones)

Batman Chronicles (1996): #9

Some of the best and most beautiful dickbabs moments come from birds of prey, and they give a great look into Babs’ side of things too! I recommend reading Bop and Nightwing alongside each other (If you can!) And I alos recommend you read some Batman arcs like Cataclysm, No Man’s Land and Bruce Wayne, Murderer? They show Dick and Babs working together and with the batfam. Fun Fact and slight spoiler for the ending of No Man’s Land, The ending scene where Dick and Helena randomly kiss was supposed to be between Dick and Babs, but someone messed up, and Rucka kinda just thought Dick was a horndog so no one fixed it 💔 there is still some good Dickbabs moments within that arc tho

Birds Of Prey (1999): #8, 19, 20, 23-61, 71, 76, 86

Robin (1993): #71

Gotham Knights: #17, 18, 26, 30, 32, 34, 35, 36, 42, 43

Harley Quinn (2000): #10-12

DC One Million (1998): #1 , 3

DC Universe Holiday Bash (1997): #2

Batman: Black Mirror (they aren’t together in this but it’s still important reading for their relationship imo and a fascinating/thrilling Dick!bats story with lots of Oracle besides)

Nightwing Annual 2 (for the conclusion of the proposal from Nightwing #117)

Li’l Gotham (2013): #1, 7, 10, 17

Convergence Nightwing/Oracle #1-2 (for the wedding. This is how pre-boot ended as far as I’m concerned)

New 52 Reboot:

Nightwing (2011): #4, Annual 1

Batgirl (2011): #3, 18, 21, 30, Annual 3, 45

Grayson (2014): #2, #12

REBIRTH:

Nightwing (2016) #1, 2, 3, 15, 44, 45, 46, 47, Annual 1

Batgirl (2016): #7, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 25

Dark Nights: Death Metal - the Last Stories of the DC Universe: #1

Batman (2016): #55

Batgirl (2016): #43, 50

Nightwing (2016): #50, 72, 73, 74, 75, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 100, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123 (ongoing)

Batman (2016): #100, 104, 118, 126, 127, 128, 137, 141, 145, 146, 148, 149,

Batgirls (2021): #7, 8, 10, 12

The Flash (2016): #787

Future State: Nightwing (2021): #1, 2

Future State: The Next Batman (2021): #4

Superman: Son of Kal-El (2021): #13

Saved by the Belle Reve (2022): #1

Tales of the Titans (2023): #1

Titans: Beast World (2023): #2, 3, 4, 6

Titans (2023): #6, 7

Batman / Santa Clause: Silent Knight (2023): #1-4

How to lose a Guy Gardener in 10 days (2024): #1

Super-Pets Special: Bitedentity Crisis (2024): #1

ELSEWORLDS / BLACK LABEL

Thrillkiller (1997): #1-3

Young Justice (2011): #22, 23, 25

Earth 2: World’s End (2014): #1, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10

Earth 2 (2012): #29

Batman: White Knight (2017): #1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Batman: White Knight: Batman Day (2018): #1

Batman: Curse of the White Knight (2019): #4

Batman: Beyond The White Knight (2022): #1, 4, 6, 7, 8

The Batman & Scooby-Doo Mysteries (2021): #4

Dc vs. Vampires (2021): #1, #2, #3, 4, 8, 12

Batman: The Long Halloween - The Last Halloween (2024): #1

Batman: Dark Age (2024): #4, 5, 6

The Boy Wonder (2024): #1

[ultimate-marysue]

How I feel my Batfam ships may or may not have children (please don't take me seriously I just need wholesomeness):

Dickkory: multiple bio kids, I'm pretty sure this is canon in some future/alternative universes. I think DC should set Kori free on a PTA meeting with no one explain to her the absurd social rules Karens set. The shitty mothers would hate her because she's over here, playing dumb on purpose until they're forced to admit they're just being annoying/egocentric and not actually asking to better their kid's education. Also, career day would be crazy considering Dick changes jobs every few months to get involved into whatever business he's investigating. Like, one year he's a cop, next he's a super model, next he's a college professor somehow. Kori thinks it's really funny so she insists on Dick being the one to go.

Dickbabs: they either don't have kids (just adopt a bunch of rescues) or maybe have one adoptive kid. Other than Cass who is Babs daughter I don't care what anyone thinks. Just Dick, Barbara and Barbara's daughter who is also Dick's sister. Also, Babs got lucky with Cass being homeschooled, the second she has to deal with the school system she's on the phone with the president blackmailing him to fix it. Easy to say, Dick deals with school exclusively from them on.

BabsDinah: they're the lesbian aunts (that end up doing a lot of the parenting because they can't help themselves). Like, neither of them would really want to have kids of their own, but the second a young vigilante with a shit ton of issues gets dropped in their doorstep it's on. Like, officially they'd be mentors, but they all see each other as family.

Stephcass: Cass is a ticking bomb, she's going to find an ex-murderer kid in need of guidance and just bring them home. Steph is not thrilled at first because they're so young still until she realizes "oh wait no, we're like, adult adults now" and then she has a crisis (unrelated to the child). Also Steph would love love to prove she's better than her father (but would be terrified of messing up). At first they're really chill but soon enough they turn it into a competition with the other Bats. Not a competition between their kids, mind you ("no Cass, that's bad parenting") but a competition of who's the best parent. Jason is terrified of them, but the rest are absolutely down.

Jayroy: asides from our beautiful wonderful and just overall fantastic Lian Harper, I think they might end up adopting some kids. What can I say? I think Jason should have Bruce's adoption gene, but specially for kids in dangerous/hard situations. I'm talking the older kids that never get adopted or younger kids with some sort of disability that need extra accomodations. I think Jason would try very hard to avoid them being vigilantes at least until they're 18. Roy is more chill with vigilantism because well, Lian turned out fine, but he respects Jason's opinion. Most important, no child of his is going to be a Robin to Bruce fucking Wayne. Also, everyone in the PTA would love them, they'd be super involved and Jason would make sure to bribe the appropriate people with muffins.

TimKon: test tube baby, not on purpose though. Like, I don't see Tim as someone actively wanting kids (especially not biological ones) and Kon wouldn't want his kid having to face the problems he did. But like, if Cadmus pulls some weird shit and there's a super baby for the taking, they would both want to make sure they give him the most loving upbringing possible. Another option is Tim accidentally creating their baby while trying to clone Kon while he was dead. That one's plausible and has a lot of angst hurt/comfort potential. Also, Teen Dad Tim after being extremely parentified during his early teens taking care of Bruce (while grieving everyone!) is evil , but a compelling kind of evil. Like a trainwreck you can't look away from.

TimBer: dual income no kids kinda queers. They're over here taking their various nephews to Olive Garden and Disneyland only to drop them off and go live their lovely stress free lives. They may adopt a kid, but that would be only when they really settled down. Let Tim enjoy his 20s (if he ever gets there) my boy has been through enough.

Dukeizzy: again, maybe it's because Duke's still pretty young so he hasn't showed much interest or inclination toward parenting, but I don't have a lot of info to go with. Personally either Dual income "take the kids to do airsoft" kinda uncle/aunt, I can see both of them being really good at giving advice to younger vigilantes (the whole situation of We Are Robin gives you a lot of insight in the power of child vigilantes separated from any mentors, so they're in a particular good spot to mediate between the kids and adults). In the case of them having kids, I think they should inherit Dukes autism (I love that headcanon) and both he and Izzy would be those parents making damn sure their kids get the accommodations they need specially at school. If their kids choose to become vigilantes you bet they're gonna be unionized.

Also, I don't have any particular ship for Damian but you bet that if that boy ever becomes a parent they'd be the softest, sweetest father in the world.

[lemonlimestar]

personally, i don’t understand how someone can like [post-crisis, as this is a mostly post-crisis blog] tim & just… not acknowledge his deep relationships with certain people?? sorry, but we wouldn’t have tim drake without dick grayson. despite his many, many, many, many flaws, bruce and tim have a strong enough bond that tim uprooted to go search for him & that’s not even mentioning the push and pull of his relationships with both jack and bruce. points at that bit in contagion where he asks that jack knows he didn’t love bruce more than him. and need i remind you that he also loves his mom?? he reiterated that he wanted his parents to be back home with him Because he loved them! and they loved him! and in that same plot point (contagion) he dreams that she’s back and cooking the meals she used to when he was younger :( like guys christmas eve was literally his mommy’s funeral!!! if u even care!!!

(u don’t or i wouldn’t be making this post LMAO)

timsteph truther or Not, the impact she has on him can’t just be swept to the wayside for mediocre at best yaoi (megfitz i am looking at u). they’re best friends! and despite all the grief they put each other through they still cling to each other! tim makes wally take him all the way back to gotham during nml to make sure he’s there when steph gives birth!

same goes with him & kon + yj/cassie & bart in general. they are clingy and territorial and clingy and tim is their best friend (and he thinks of them the same). like i’m sorry. ik i joke about this but genuinely how are we glossing over damn near 100 fucking cloning attempts. they were his colors??? bro. ik they bicker in yj98 but brother i’m gonna be real with u they All do that. they’re all passively mean to each other within their friendship & banter & such, kon and tim just so happen to also have the problems with tim’s secret identity more upfront. (which cools instantly after it’s kinda resolved for them in wwyj). timcassie will never read as romantic to me, but does it have to be romantic for the way they fell into each other after kon (and then bart :[) dies to be compelling?? u wouldn’t know this bc it’s very unlikely that u fall into this camp and have also read impulse 95, but did u even know that tim is one of the first people bart turns to when he’s stuck on an issue?? did u know that kon does the same on his solo?? did u know that cassie jokingly(lovingly) calls him her sidekick??

i just feel like the many friendships and relationships that tim has is part of what makes him himself. he’s the team-up guy!! he loves his family and friends!! his closest friends are family to him!! and this isn’t getting into his relationships that are usually ignored entirely or straight up made one dimensional (babs, cass, helena, damian, etc, etc) (to which i would say read nml, read last laugh, read fresh blood, read cry of the huntress, read cry for blood, read gates of gotham)

[leoruby-draws]

Kid Villains, pt 2.

Decided to post more kiddy villains, bit of a sequel to this. First up is Kitten, Mothman's bratty daughter from the 2003 teen titan cartoon:

Modeled her costume after the Rosy Maple Moth, while there are species of moths with the name kitten on them I figured she would prefer a pink outfit.

Thought it'd be kinda cool for her to be a villain for the batkids, she's already evil so why not. I don't imagine her to be all that talented at the job tho she would still be very dangerous if you underestimate her. I think she would work particularly well against Steph, being that Mothman started as a villain for Barbara (Cass might be too high level for her tbh).

Here's some more doodles:

Here's my Scarecrow's sidekick oc, I should probably name her something like Rag Doll or Raggedy Scream maybe? The three boys are oc's modeled after the Terrible Trio, criminals who commit crimes wearing animal masks. Their identities change a lot over continuities, so these kids are probably aspiring to be the next incarnation of this group.

Here's another random oc, a sidekick for White Rabbit (Jaina Hudson). Thought it'd be funny if it was just a kid in a silly rabbit suit, like what the kid wore in that movie, A Christmas Story. I'm not sure on what his personality should be. Maybe someone genuinely nice, a cheerful, polite boy who likes to hand people bombs (unintentionally dangerous) or maybe someone pretending to be nice but is actually malicious. Whatever's funnier I suppose.

Here's some characters inspired by the Super Friends enemies, the Super Foes. You'd see some of them return for the Robins 2021 mini, except for Toy Boy. Giggles and Guffaw are newer, only appearing in the mini.

I messed with their designs a bit to make them more unique looking. Honeysuckle for example was shown with either red or brown hair but I gave her a sorta dark maroon, thought it contrasted well with her green outfit. Honeysuckle btw, is older than the rest, and is more of an enemy to Dick and Barbara, tho her teenage self has no problem attacking the younger sibs.

Also Giggles and Guffaw might look a little similar to a certain anime starring a group of sextuplets, just being a little funny there. I gave these kids some made up names, mostly taken from whatever writer created them. Couple of them worked out pretty well actually, like Bridwell (well, spring, stream) and Estrada (Road).

This next one is a character from the 2004 cartoon The Batman, which I never actually watched but I did see commercials of. His name is Prank ( Donnie ?), a protege of the Joker. He wasn't evil enough to stick it out, but I gotta say I just loved his costume (esp how the jacket resembles Robins coat a bit). Made up a last name for him, just a random one from searching up famous clowns.

Being Barbara's peer, he's also more of a antagonist for the older kids, decided he and Honeysuckle should friends. I kinda want to use them as a sorta contrast to Babs and Dick, that could be fun to do. Also look at baby Dick, I don't draw him enough at this age.

Speaking of Barbara, I've been going back and forth between having her start out as either 12 or 16. All the other kids start out really young, so it makes sense for Babs to do so as well. But I kinda like the thought of her starting out much older, makes her more unique among the batkids (in pre-crisis she became Batgirl in like her 20s btw, cool huh?)

More various rivals for the kids to fight, excluding my oc Pink Rabbit, all of them more antagonists for the kids themselves rather sidekicks of the villains that Batman fights.

Here's Jason and Steph torturing poor little Enigma, who would be considered the bad guy here?

Here's some more proteges, Holly probably exists in this world, she's a bit too old for all this nonsense tho. Kitten is also a Super Foes member and was in Robins 2021 as well, she's been shown to be a sidekick to the Cheetah and Catwoman. Maybe she's just likes to attach herself to any cat-themed villain.

Crazy Quilt is more of an enemy to Robin than Batman, plus he has his own legacy in Crazy Quilt II, so obviously I had to include them. I wonder what name should I give the younger one, Duvet? Silly Blankie? idk

Lastly here's Earth 3(?) Jason Todd as Talon II paying a visit to the Training Wheels universe, seems like hes a bit of a crybaby. I don't think we've seen a earth 3 variant of Jason, so I'm just making up my own version of him. Wonder why he seems so nervous...

Anyways!! That was a lot, hope you liked all that!

[disniq]

Hey, I have a comics question for you—I've seen the concept of Bruce having compared Jason unfavorably to Dick while he was Robin referenced a fair amount in fics, and I feel like I remember seeing you talk about it before? Maybe? So I thought you might know. But I was just wondering if there was a canon basis for it anywhere, because the only time I actually remember any comparison happening during post-crisis was that time Jason was in the hospital and /he/ called Dick better than him and then Bruce reassured him. That said, I really did not pay attention to a lot of the flashbacks/retcons on Jason's Robin run from N52 or Rebirth, so I thought maybe there could be something there?

(Just to clarify, absolutely not meant to be any shade on this trope implied in this question, it's just something where I've seen it across multiple authors and so I'm curious where it came from.)

Hi! I'm sorry this took so long to answer, real life has been kicking my ass this week.

So! I did a quick check of the comics I thought most likely to contain such a comparison - Nightwing Year Zero, early RHATOs, all the various JayDick teamups - and I can't find any panels of Bruce himself directly comparing Jason to Dick either.

But there are at least a few examples in more modern comcis of Jason voicing resentment about Bruce's standards and how they relate to Dick;

Nightwing (2021) annual

Batman Urban Legends (2021) #1

There's also a small mention in Batman Eternal of Babs comparing them when Jason was Robin;

Batman Eternal Vol. 1

I think it's fair to extrapolate that, even if Bruce didn't say it directly to Jason's face, it's plausible that Jason could have picked up on the general feeling of being compared to his predecessor.

Also, I personally kinda like the meta intersection with the way irl fans and writers insisted on comparing him to Dick (which is understandable, given that Jason was the first legacy sidekick. People didn't know how to deal with someone new taking up an existing mantle)

But, yeah, I'm gonna call this one another example of fandom running away with the ~implications~

[roipecheur]

oh it's funny when people have a blanket ban against batcest. like they don't dislike it solely when they consider themselves family, it's just an issue regardless. when they've only recently met? an au where they don't even meet until adulthood? nope, all of those are just as bad apparently

Yeah for one thing I don't care if people do ship fictional incest, but even the most canon-compliant "batcest" isn't incest unless it's Bruce/Damian, and maybe brudick or brujay depending on the permutation. Generally I think if someone wants to incestify their shipping and give either brudick or brujay (or even brutim) dadson vibes, or give any of the ones Bruce adopted sibling incest vibes, whatever, you do you, but I also think it's equally valid and honestly closer to canon if you don't.

Bruce and Dick have a complex relationship but calling them unambiguously father and son feels like trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. Bruce adopted Dick as an adult and Tim either as an adult or almost adult, Idk because I haven't read that far in Tim's pre-Flashpoint run yet. Tim also lived with his father for almost his whole childhood--Jack Drake died when Tim was 17. He didn't grow up with Bruce and wouldn't see him as his father, he already had one.

Bruce did adopt Jason as a kid, but Jason in total lived with him for three years and then died. Who knows if any aspect of that relationship survived Jason's death and resurrection and if they'd really consider themselves father and son now.

Cass was adopted by Bruce also and maybe considers him kinda her dad/a father figure, but she was also adopted as an older teenager and she also already had a father--albeit a terrible one (David Cain). Due to how he raised her, her feelings about relationships in general are probably gonna be complicated.

Steph was never adopted by Bruce and never lived under his roof, and she probably thanks her lucky stars every day lmao. Calling shipping her with literally any of the other bats & birds "incest" is just....not true.

Even in the context of adult or nearly adult adoption, this isn't necessarily Bruce being parental and seeing Dick, Tim, and Cass as his children. Though it could be that, it could also be that Bruce wanted them to have legal protections and resources in case he died. Afaik, his closest living biological relatives are the Kanes, who he isn't particularly close to in post-Crisis and pre-Flashpoint, which is most of what I've read. It makes sense that he'd want to adult-adopt Dick in those circumstances.

Adult adoption was also a way for gay couples to get around not being able to marry each other before that was legal. So. Very valid to interpret that as brudick imo.

Dick was in college before Bruce took Jason in. They never lived under the same roof and never formed a close relationship. Jason died before Tim showed up. Dick and Tim also never lived together, and their relationship is closer to mentor/mentee and then friends. You can interpret them as brothers, but listen. Babs was originally 8-10 years older than Dick, and in older canon content was sometimes more attracted to Bruce. Dicktim isn't any weirder than dickbabs, which is canon.

Tim and Cass were closest in age, and Cass was living at the manor and was Batgirl while Tim was Robin, but...Cass and Steph were friends. Tim and Steph were dating. Cass and Tim? Coworkers at best. They tried working together once after they both moved to Blüdhaven and then went "lol never mind" and worked alone. Absolutely they were not 'siblings'.

Jason, it goes without saying, would not see anyone who arrived after his death as a 'sibling'. It's arguable whether he'd see Dick like that.

I admittedly haven't gotten to Damian yet, but Tim is already seventeen, and Damian hasn't even shown up. I doubt they interact in a way that would let them develop a sibling-like relationship. I've also seen Damian's relationship with Dick vary from seeing him as a parental figure to seeing him as an older brother to seeing him as a mentor...but in any case. They're not related, and you can interpret their relationship differently.

And yes, I know WFA is a thing, and I know that they have been trying to nuclear family-ify and sibling-ify the bats & birds in more recent canon....but that does not match with most of what was going on with those bitches from the 80s to 2011 and, as I said in the tags of another post:

batcest this. batcest that. [shrek voice] they're not even related.

tl;dr you're absolutely right and it's just pointless, moral purity screeching of trying to find something "problematic" about certain ships instead of just admitting "hey it's not for me" and moving on. If someone wants to interpret the various bats & birds as a happy family, that's fine! But it's not the only valid interpretation, it doesn't have a basis in most of canon, and it's ridiculous for people to pretend like it does.

[northoftheroad]

I know I just gave you an ask and you must be super busy, but what do you think abt Dickory vs Dickbabs?? Personally, I think Dickory is way better but in Tom Taylor’s run and the current runs, Dickbabs is the main ship. Anyways, I just wanted your opinion on it :D

Also thoughts on Tom Taylor’s run? I thought about it and I kinda have mixed feelings. On one hand, it’s great for fanservice and has some super cute and funny moments. On the other hand, the characters and their relationships are kinda one dimensional. Thoughts?? Take your time and thanks if you answer! <3

Hi, As I've said before (and I'm going to quote myself from older posts here quite a lot, if you happen to come across them 😉 ), I'm fine with both pairings as long as it's well written. I guess a lot of fans lean towards preferring what they grew up with and such like. I'm old enough to have started reading Batman when the idea of another Robin than Dick Grayson was ludicrous, and read the NTT in my slightly older teens. So I definitely have a nostalgic feeling for Dick/Kory.

I think they worked well because they were so different; they each learned from the other and grew as people. Being with Kory helped Dick become more emotionally open after some ten years of growing up with Bruce and Alfred. In NTT # 26, he talks about how he is too introspective and that Batman taught him to be guided by his head, not his heart. And in turn, I'd say Kory learned not always to be ruled by her emotions, and Dick helped to ground her on Earth. They had their fair share of problems, one obstacle was their different approach to relationships and sex. While Starfire is fine with being married to another guy, for reasons of state, but live with Dick, it takes Dick quite some time to come to terms with that he loves Kory enough to get over that. Dick and Kory were one of the most stable and loving couples in DC for over ten years. Now, in superhero comics, writers and/or editoral make the rules. There were plans to let them get married, but as far as I remember a change of editorial led to that being scrapped. We got Dick being raped by Mirage instead, and eventually, the couple split up. Disregarding that, I think you could very well see them growing apart. They were young when they started dating. I guess they were a couple for two-three years? At that age, it's not unreasonable to think they developed in ways that made them decide to go their separate ways.

If Dick and Kory were good because they were poles apart, I'd say Dick and Barbara are more alike. They have both worked with Batman; they are originally street-level detectives and athletes; they are used to work in similar ways. I could see them as a slightly more mature couple than Dick and Kory, being more in sync and relaxed with each other because they have similar backgrounds and shared experiences. (Which, of course, could make them a more boring couple in fiction…) I'm not a fan of the retcon that they've been friends since school, but they did work occasionally together as youngsters, so it can still make sense to write them as really good friends, imo. I honestly think Dick and Kory have been written as a good couple more than Dick and Barbara. Maybe things had been different if Devin Grayson had got the chance to tie up her long arc with Dick in Nightwing vol 2. Not that I think her run was without its problems, but it would presumably have been better if she had got the opportunity to finish what she started. The ending (or rather the absence of a decent ending) of her run, and the fact that the first Nightwing stories after Infinite Crisis were downright cringeworthy, has soured my impression of her writing of Dick/Babs. So I guess editorial decisions have ruined both Dick's most important relationships…?

I don't know if you're new to the debate about Dick/Kory vs. Dick/Barbara? Because it's sometimes a heated discussion, with people claiming he doesn't deserve either of them, he mistreated one or the other etc.

(Here's what Barbara herself had to say about Dick, by the way. In Birds of Prey # 71. By Gail Simone, art Ron Adrian and Rob Lea.)

I can definitely work myself up too much about fictional characters myself, but there are a few things I try to keep in mind… Fictional characters have no agency. Creators and editoral use them to tell stories (and sell stuff…). Don't get angry at fictional characters or, even worse, real people who love them. Also, reading comics is a lot about filling in the blanks between panels, and different readers can put a book down with very different pictures of what has happened. You can absolutely find examples where Dick has been written as behaving badly against both of them. Sometimes, it's a reasonable part of the writer's long game, sometimes it actually is bad and out-of-character writing. (And if you look, you can find examples where the women have been written as behaving badly against Dick too.)

Honestly, the most important thing for me when it comes to Dick and relationships is that he takes them very seriously indeed. Dick has not had a lot of one-night stands and is on record as saying he's not comfortable with casual sex. When he had one with Helena/Huntress, he wanted to talk about starting a relationship just because of that. When he (fake) married a girl to try to expose her as a murderer, he still avoided to sleep with her, and then he offered to stay with her when the case was closed, because he felt bad for deceiving her. Outside the blasted annual, I don't know of any time he was written as (knowingly) having sex with someone while he's in a relationship with another. Girls tend to break up with him, not the other way around. I'm sure other people have different ideas, and it can vary between writers and eras, but I think you can read Dick as someone who likes to be in a relationship, to be intimate with someone – but who's not into casual sex.

When it comes to Tom Taylor's run, I pretty much agree with you. I don't hate it, as some people seem to do, but I think the art has been the best part. It's mostly been pretty meh, TT has at several times spoken about how Nightwing is an A-lister among DC superheroes, but I don't think he shows it. And here and there he produces some really nice panels/pages (sometimes it's up to debate whether the characters are out of character or not). We're heading towards the end of his and Bruno Redondon's run and they've hinted he's going to stop being Nightwing. As if we need a third period of Dick not being Nightwing in ten years… 🙄 The best writer of Nightwing vol 4 was Sam Humphries, in my opinion. Unfortunately, it was very short.

Ok, this post has definitely gone on long enough... but if you want to go deeper into the rabbit hole, here are some earlier posts.

[cuephrase]

Hey, I've been trying to get into comics again (I used to read them a lot when I was in high school but I have since fallen off when I got busy in college), and I was wondering if you had a good starting place in mind? I think I stopped reading a couple years into the Rebirth reboot. I like the batfam, especially the Batgirls and the Robins (though Damian is my favorite lol). I'd love some help since I'm kinda intimidated by the amount of lore that's happened the past several years.

Thank you!

hiiii, okay, so. i feel like i should preface that i am...hmmmm. i'm not as well versed in Rebirth era as i could be? although i do keep up with current monthly releases, and i have read some batfam rebirth.

lemme try and give you a lore rundown, and then i can move into recs!!

i think...hmmm. yk what, i think dark crisis is technically after Rebirth, and what kicks off Infinite Frontier, but i'm going to be so real, everything 2016 and on is just filed under Rebirth for me lmao. also, more honesty, i don't technically know wtf happened with dark crisis. shoot. okay okay, what i do know is- some shit went down at some point and a) the justice league disbanded (or got shut down?) and things were like that for a couple years but they legit just reformed and b) continuity was adjusted again so it's even more connected to post-crisis. forgive me, i hate reading universe wide events and i haven't gotten to my in-depth rebirth read through so i'm winging it big time. the biggest bat specific thing i can think of rn is dick's ric era, wherein he gets shot in the head, gets amnesia, starts calling himself ric and bartending and then putting greasepaint on and being a vigilante...and then the court of owls get involved and mind control stuff and then JOKER gets control of dick...joker war is. an experience. the tl;dr of joker war is...it happened. i recall so little except for the things that i hated and the art i enjoyed. oh but i think that's when bruce lost a bunch of money? yeah actually i think that's when that happened. but also he's a billioniare again now. i don't know if he got the manor back yet?? i should know that. shit. ANYWAYS. stuff happened, but honestly, i think it's pretty easy to just hop in wherever. OH. ALFRED DIED. that's pretty big. that happened in Batman: City of Bane, dick is not present in that storyline bc of the aforementioned ric arc. that storyline is actually a pretty major deal for damian. i think it's technically a sequel, but i just read that arc and rolled with what was going on (i.e. bruce being out of gotham and injured and bane being in control).

and then recs, okay, caveat that i haven't read batman or tec for rebirth (excluding certain arcs and batman from #125 to present) so there may be good character stuff there that i don't mention here simply bc i'm not aware of it rn. for damian:

Super Sons (2017) - i realize you may have read this already but just in case

Robin (2021, Vol 2) - this happens after city of bane, damian leaves gotham after alfred's death

Batman & Robin (2023, Vol. 3) - damian with bruce after joker war and...probably some other things? most recent run that damian is a title character in, i have very mixed feelings about it but it is relevant to damian.

The Boy Wonder (2024) - this is black label, so it's not main continuity but it's a really great damian-centric story.

he also is in a teen titans run but i haven't read it and i don't think it's very popular? but you could def check it out if you wanted ofc.

for the batgirls:

Batgirl (2024, Vol. 6) - this is a brand new cass run, only five issues so far, but it's fantastic. probably my favorite current release

there was a Batgirls run in 2021, ft. steph and cass as a duo, i think babs is also fairly present? i have not read it yet, and from what i hear the start is kinda rocky? it only lasted 19 issues. if you check it out and don't vibe with the start i'd try skipping to a later arc or to the new writer (if there was an writer switch)

i cannot offer any babs recs, i'm so sorry

for the other robins:

tbh, not a whole lot i can rec in a, "i enjoyed this a lot!!" way? but i can tell you where they are.

Nightwing (2016, Vol 4) - this was def going when you were still reading comics so you could hop in wherever you left off if you remember. #75 is after ric/joker war if you wanted to skip that. i am personally not a huge fan of tom taylor's run, issues #78-118, but you may like it, it's one of those runs that i think people are kind of split on. i am however loving dan watters, so #119-present gets my rec. if you just leapt to watters' start, all you really need to know is that dick and babs are dating and dick has a half-sister who is the mayor of bludhaven. i think.

Red Hood and the Outlaws, (2016, Vol 2) - also def running when you were still reading, my enjoyment dips after #26

Batman: Urban Legends ((2021) #1-6 has a bruce and jason story that i personally really enjoy. 4-6 also have tim's coming out arc. the thing i like the most about that arc is that tim is officially bi and the art. #10 has some fun/sad batfam christmas content (first one without alfred, rip). i thiiiiink there's some dick and damian stuff in later issues? lemme check. yeah #20 for sure, maybe through #23? i should just read this whole anthology run, ugh.

jason was also in Task Force Z, #8 has some fun batfam conflict content. he is technically in Red Hood: The Hill, but really...he's less than a side character. would not rec. he's also in Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing, a tolerable joker run tbh, but nothing i'm itching to reread, yk? and ofc gotham war...we'll circle back to that

the only tim content that i have read that i have enjoyed is in zdarsky's batman run which kicks off in Batman (2016, Vol 3) #125.

i would not rec Dark Crisis: Young Justice or Tim Drake: Robin (2022), but he is there. Young Justice (2019, Vol 2) is pretty chill, i think it's more interested in the new characters than the og yj peeps but it's not bad!

gotham war. okay. so. this is a hot mess express, and i say that with all the fondness of someone looking at the beat up tomcat that they feed on occasion. i think it's better in full context, bc without the two previous arcs it def seems even more unhinged lmao, but it is very. interesting. genuinely think it would have been better if they hadn't made it a crossover event but what do i know. here's a reading guide, they have some catwoman and knight terrors stuff recced as preppers, and...sure, but i would really rec just starting from Batman #125. oh knight terrors!!

Knight Terrors: Robin is a personal fave, tim and jason in this one. damian shows up in the main stuff i think, he's one of the ones that doesn't fall asleep. there's also a Knight Terrors: Nightwing, not a huge fan but you might like it! knight terrors...it's an event. i did read the main thing, but...idk man, they just put everyone in their worst nightmares, some bad guy was behind it and they're all okay now. (events and i are not friends, can you tell LMAO)

there's been a couple Titans runs...i have no idea what's going on there and i cannot in good conscience rec the current run so. i'm sorry.

hopefully this was helpful!! i'm so sorry if it wasn't, if there was any specific event or lore thing you've heard about that you wanted more info on i could try and help you out there. damian being a humanoid cat, for instance, is part of the Titans: Beast World...i think we see him as a cat at the end of Nightwing #109, but the bulk of him as a cat is #110. in one sense, so much has happened in rebirth now that i've just mentally run through it, but so much of it feels rather inconseqeuntial haha. idk, i really think dc's been trying to find their footing ever since (thankfully) abandoning n52 and they're only maybe kinda finding it now.

i have a habit of just tossing myself in and figuring out how to swim as i go and while it works great for me haha, i do think it makes me a bit of a lousy guide, especially when i'm not as knowledgeable as i could be in an era. i can point you at stuff, but i also technically don't want to dissaude you from reading anything bc you might like something i don't like...but i don't want you to get discouraged by a lame story...OVERALL, i hope this was helpful and you find some stuff you enjoy!! feel free to send more asks or dms, any time <3

(and ofc, if you try out anything i gave a less than positive note on and enjoy it, that's great, i'm so happy for you! zero shame in that, you are not liking the 'wrong' comics. and vice versa, if you dislike something i spoke positively of, totally valid!!)

[abrakuxas]

Hey, hope this doesn't bother you, but i was wondering if you could recommend some batman comics? Im trying to get into them, but there is so much out there

Feel free to ignore this

Hey! No bother!

Fuck, look, I'd love to be concise but I'm the kind of crazy people that reads everything (I'll do my best)...

Little rambling before we start ao you know where I come from: Some people will tell you that you can get into comics at any point and that it's like modern myths and that stories happen kind of isolated from each other and can be read in any order.

I could not disagree more and to Batman comics I disagree even more, at it's best, Batman comics are very much a story that develops and evolves, while to me, to my taste, whenever it goes into full timeless status quo it's just... Fine. It can be very good at the right hands but if not it just feels samey and generic.

My reading method is going through DC database and taking notes of which issues were released every month of every year for every minimally batfamily related title (except for Justice League, I'm gonna do it in the future)

I'm currently at 2017 and my list includes: Batman, Detective Comics, All Star Batman, Nightwing, Titans, Batgirl, Batgirl and the Birds of Prey, Red Hood and the Outlaws, Teen Titans, Super Sons, Gotham Academy, etc...

That said I'll assume you're not as crazy as I am and try to be normal about it. (If you do want crazy version, you can DM me or ask me again lol)

For a start:

- You can go through Golden Age comics from Detective 27, they are very fun to read.

- A more normal route is Batman Year 1 but you don't need me to tell you to read Batman Year 1, the whole internet will tell you that. But yeah, all of those. Ideal order from here: Year 1, Shaman Legends of the Dark Knight 1-5), could add Mad Monk and Monster Men here, Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Robin Year One, Batman and Robin Year One, Robin and Batman. I think this is probably the safest start reading Batman guide.

- Before Crisis on Infinite Earths I'd recommend Neal Adams and Dennis O'Neil. Some faves include: Detective Comics 400 (first Man-Bat story); 405 (first League of Assassins story); 408 (great for some Batman & Robin drama); then I'd say go read the stories collected in tales of the Demon! Detective 457,

- Immediate post crisis Batman is my jam. The first post crisis issue of Batman is 401, his whole relationship to Jason is very fun. I honestly will have hard time recommending this because to me Batman from post crisis up to the end of the 90s is just the best and it's kinda sad to me but since I started reading 2000s up I just haven't had as much fun as I had during this era. If you like Batfamily, then this era with Dick as Nightwing, Jason as Robin, his death, Tim becoming Robin, Babs becoming Oracle, Spoiler and Huntress show up, Jean-Paul Valley taking over as an even more broken Batman and by the end you have Cassandra as Batgirl. Ugh, it's just perfect, my favorite experience for reading Batman. In terms of major stories: The Cult> Death in the Family > Killing Joke > Lonely Place of Dying > Sword of Azrael > Knightfall > Contagion > Batman Legacy > Cataclysm > No Man's Land

I cannot stress this enough, if you don't mind reading things for a long time and engaging in long stories with various arcs, this is just fucking great

From this era I'd also recommend Batman: Dark Knight, Dark city, a personal favorite of mine that can be read standalone

- Gotham Academy is not really Batman but oh my god is it fun.

- Batman and Robin vol 2 by Peter J Tomasi is the closest I've been to having fun like I did with 80s and 90s books

- The Batgirl book from the early 2000s with Cassandra Cain is excellent. I do recommend reading No Man's Land first, but you do you.

- The Batgirl book from 2009 with Stephanie is very fun

- If you're into Dick Grayson I recommend The New Teen Titans by Marv Wolffman and George Perez. Just do it, it's very good (until it isn't. You will know)

- If you're into Tim Drake I recommend his Robin book and his Red Robin book

- If you're into Jason Todd, I'm sorry. My favorite stories with him is his post crisis Robin stories and some aspects of Under the Red Hood but unfortunately he's rarely well written after that, it pisses me off

- Huntress Cry for Blood

- Batman and the Outsiders is very nice, I love everything Mike W. Barr writes in the 80s

- Batwoman comics by Greg Rucka!!!!!!!!! He's good.

- I'm really enjoying Absolute Batman!

I think these are my top picks. Honestly if you're a normal human being you could probably just read this stories in any order and be happy! I very much recommend going to DC Database and checking some stuff. If you do want a more deep reading.

If you do want like... Deep deep dive into Batman or just chat and ask stuff I'm always open to doing it!

I could do this for hours......

[n64spoon]

random ted kord hc's because im going insane and need to spread propaganda SOMEWHERE.

love language (giving)

ive done alot if thinking about this one and have come to the conclusion that his love languages are acts of service and gift giving. i kinda based this decision off of how he acts with babs and booster in countdown to infinite crisis. dude is about to go bankrupt AGAIN but he's still offering to pay for tickets and lets booster borrow his card, even if it negatively affects him. hes a superhero for one but also his entire reasoning behind becoming the second blue beetle was because he feels like he OWES it to dan, he wants to make up for his blind faith to his uncle which lead to dans death. i think he loves doing favours for people because it makes him feel good about himself, and he loves the feeling of being appreciated.

love language (receiving)

words of affirmation and physical touch. he has boundaries when it comes to the physical touch of course, but booster is the main exception, with ted being quite touchy himself at times. i like to base this off of the first appearance of dan's death in blue beetle 1967 where as dan says his last words hes caressing teds face UGHH that shit fucks me up man -- but i can definitely imagine him melting in someones hands if they held his face or something (booster, of course).

then theres the words of affirmation. ted gets compliments alot, obviously, usually due to his status in hub city and his intelligence. but there are times where he feels unappreciated or isnt taken seriously, usually by higher ranked heroes (cough cough BATMAN cough) . in countdown to infinite crisis (yes im referencing this comic AGAIN im SORRY) he is pushed aside constantly by multiple people. the few people who did listen to him, namely superman and wonderwoman, its stated in booster gold 2007 he "felt bad for wasting their time.". ted needs reassurance, he needs to be reassured that he isnt a bother. though at times a wise-cracking jerk, he still does care about how others view him. and spending like most or his childhood being put down by his father and then years later by heroes he works with he deserves someone telling him he's doing good once in awhile 😭.

[cephalog0d]

Hey, Batfans, are you a weird completionist who likes sortable data way too much, like me? Do you want a giant spreadsheet of appearances of a bunch of Batfam members that you can filter across multiple people to see where they show up in the same issue together?

WELL GOOD NEWS because thanks to my hyperfixation I made a spreadsheet. (It's view-only but if you save a copy it should be editable for personal use.)

The Spreadsheet currently contains all post-crisis appearances for the following characters: Barbara Gordon, Cassandra Cain, Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson, Duke Thomas, Harper Row, Helena Bertinelli, Jace Fox, Jarro, Jason Todd, Jean-Paul Valley, Kate Kane, Luke Fox, Stephanie Brown and Tim Drake. I feel like that's most of the big ones (and several not-very-big-ones), but if there's a Bat-person missing you'd like to see on there, feel free to ask!

This is up to date through July 2023. I have intentions to keep updating it on a semi-monthly basis, but we'll see if that happens.

All sheets are conditionally formatted so if you enter "Y" in the Read column it will highlight the whole row in green to mark it off, if you're the kind of person who likes to keep track and mark things off a list.

The Master List is filterable by any character, and more importantly, multiple characters! Up to "all of them" although I don't think anything actually contains *all* of them.

(Some more notes below)

SOME NOTES:

Dates are the start of the series, since that's how a lot of places besides DC itself with their weird "volume" convention distinguish different runs.

These aren't sorted by preboot vs. New 52 vs. Rebirth vs. IF, sorry, that was too many sorting functions for now. You can kinda figure it out by date, though (New 52 was 2011, Rebirth was 2016, IF was 2022) or look up the issue on a wiki and see what version of the character is tagged.

On that note, all of this was pulled from the DC Wiki, and while I did a little bit of spot-checking as I went for things I knew off the top of my head it's entirely possible things are missing or mis-attributed. I'm happy to update accordingly if there are.

Similarly, I didn't go through every issue here to check what role people are appearing in, either in terms of what identity they're using (e.g. Spoiler vs Robin vs Batgirl) or if they're a major character or not. Some of these are as minor as background appearances or off-screen mentions. Some day I might add more metadata to sort for those things, but right now that's not part of it.

[seilnakyle]

I notice you posted lots of old comic panels about Dick and Babs' interactions. It was really good source materials for their superhero dynamic as partners in crime! They truly deserved their Dynamite Duo title.

And while it was clear Dick harbored feelings for Babs in their early days, it wasn't the same for her, although they've been teased romantically together a lot in old batfam comics (*coughs* the wedding panel). Maybe for the gags or something, even the writers admitted they never intended to make those two a thing (in the post crisis)

But still, Babs was much closer in age to Bruce compared to Dick who was a teenager, barely legal. (cmiiw). Babs said so herself in one of the post crisis batman comic books you posted: "I flirted with the first Robin for a while, but he was so young, Batman was the one on my mind."

This is just pure curiosity, apologies if i word it poorly. Does this mean you don't mind DickBabs original age gap? Or perhaps you take those two's out of continuity's interactions as proof of their existing love chemistry, thus predating the other ship? Just genuinely curious of your thoughts about this! :D

So I guess I’ll start with the age thing to preface that I don’t think it’s problematic to ship this version of them. When Dick and Babs first meet in Detective Comics #359, there is a pretty obvious age gap, and there is absolutely no hint of romance between the two at this point (though Robin does seem to like her immediately) and there would not be until years later when Dick is IN COLLEGE. So the age difference is Dick at 18/19 and Babs at 25 which is a seven to eight year difference. In comparison, Bruce adopted nine year old Dick in his late 20s. It makes sense to me that she would be able to relate better to an 18/19 year old than a man in his late 30s

And of course Babs was originally added to comics to be a love interest for Bruce (REALLY the whole reason for her million dollar debut was because when Eartha Kitt was cast as Catwoman, the show would no longer use her as a Love Interest, which is why Batgirl was created, and became so popular that she was added to the comics) and some writers attempted to throw in her having a crush on Bruce like from the quote you gave, but in the actual stories, there was little to no evidence of their being actual feelings between the two. Babs even says herself that she doesn’t have ANY romantic interest in Batman

Batman #197

Now you are correct that the writer of Batman Family said he didn’t intend to actually put Dick and Babs together when writing them, but (just my opinion) this isn’t really important in the long run. Stan Lee certainly didn’t intend for MJ Watson to become Spidey’s wife when he first created that character. Jason Todd wasn’t created specifically to die. And Barbara Gordon was supposed to disappear forever after The Killing Joke. Stories change, writers change, and characters change with them.

As for Babs’ side of the crush, well, I kinda disagree that it was completely one sided. Now MIND YOU, if Babs had been fully awake when Dick confessed his feelings for her, I do not think Babs would have verbally reciprocated. I think she would have reminded him of the age difference (I think she would want him to finish college first) and also again remind him he already has a gf in poor much forgotten Lori Elton lol

Now saying all this, she def still had a crush too, but she recognized that he was too young for now, and was open to other relationships. Dick would go on to have a happy long lasting relationship with Kory, and Babs would be with Jason Bard

The Batman Family #10

I do ship these versions of them, but (bc I see Dickbabs as one of the best slow burn romances in comics) I don’t really want them together until they are older and more mature.

I feel this sentiment remains the same in Batgirl Year One.

[soleminisanction]

Do you consider Barbara the first or second Batgirl? I’ve always considered Barbara the second. I try to keep Bette alive in my memory and it would be awesome to see DC do more with her! She could be so fascinating! I find it interesting that she started off as the Batgirl who had a girlish crush on Robin to then unknowingly taking the name Flambird who is the partner of Nightwing in Superman lore. Bring her back DC!

Do you have any rarepairs when it comes to Babs? Or any unpopular opinions?

Depends on if we're talking in- or out-of-universe. In the post-Crisis continuity, she's been established as the first Batgirl, with Betty -- who, for the record, is kinda distinct from Bette in the same way that the modern Kate Kane is distinct from Kathy -- being her Earth-2 equivalent. But in terms of out-of-universe history, she's the second, though she is the codifier and the one who originated the role in the minds of most pop culture.

I don't really ship Babs with anybody. My unpopular opinion is that I don't think she needs to be completely paralyzed to be good disability representation, and that she can be that while being both Batgirl and Oracle.

There's definitely ways to do that representation wrong. The way the comics went about it, with the magic cure that contradicted decades of her characterization as Oracle? That sucked, and from what I hear they haven't been handling the balance between her two roles great in the more recent comics either, which also sucks. But in other adaptions, worlds, or even reset timelines within the DCU, there are ways to do it that I think work great.

Like the Gotham Knights video game version, where the injury is established to have been something she always knew she could recover from, but it took years for her to get back to the point where she could act in the field again, and even then she has to use assistive devices and deal with chronic pain. That's good disability rep, and people who dismiss it just because she can walk are wrong to do so.