#Babs is having a.... kinda crisis?

[idontcaboose]

Haunted Car Au Part 12

Previous. Masterpost

Danny wasn't completely sure what all of the sound files Duke uploaded into the radio storage. Granted, the fact that there was apparently a 10 Terabyte hard drive just for the radio seemed a bit much, although it was over half full before Duke gave him a metric butt load of sound bytes, so maybe Batman was onto something. Now it was about three-quarters full…. How many files were there?

Either way, whoever named these files are the MvP of this entire situation. Either they were just the name of the saying, or we're named something like ‘exasperated 4’ and they were On Point!

Unfortunately there weren't any defined names other than movie references. Why were there three different versions of the “Hey, Becky, look at her butt” Danny didn't know, but he might use them for reasons.

Duke had left him alone with a disgruntled “Good Luck” after Danny started playing the ‘mood’ files to see exactly what they were. He figured Duke would come back in a few hours to have a “conversation” about his predicament. Until then……

DID THEY SOUND BYTE BATMAN HIMSELF?!?!?!

Next

@kizzer55555 @sebas-nights @candeartist422 @trappednyourheart @fandom-life-corrupted-me @tkiesai @2lbballpeenhammer @admiralwidow @rewrittenwrongs @whotfevenknowsanymore @symmetricalastigmatism @thespacedragons @atinygracie @okami-love @lesbian-spider-drone @1n0sss @forgetmenot-bluepurple

[welcometogrouchland]

Was skimming through some Dixon era BoP for no particular reason and came across a scene where 3 DIFFERENT MEN (Dick Grayson, Ted Kord and Jason Bard) all show up to Babs' door at almost exactly the same time bc they're all in love with her.

Birds of Prey (1999) #19

Which is, A) really funny on its own and B) actually extremely based from a representational view. Oracle was important as disability rep in comics for a lot of reasons, one of which being that she got mad bitches in her wheelchair. She had too much swag and they had to kill her

[ronnyraygun]

I can make GK sooooooo much sadder than it has to be.

[Check the Tags]

[ultimate-marysue]

How I feel my Batfam ships may or may not have children (please don't take me seriously I just need wholesomeness):

Dickkory: multiple bio kids, I'm pretty sure this is canon in some future/alternative universes. I think DC should set Kori free on a PTA meeting with no one explain to her the absurd social rules Karens set. The shitty mothers would hate her because she's over here, playing dumb on purpose until they're forced to admit they're just being annoying/egocentric and not actually asking to better their kid's education. Also, career day would be crazy considering Dick changes jobs every few months to get involved into whatever business he's investigating. Like, one year he's a cop, next he's a super model, next he's a college professor somehow. Kori thinks it's really funny so she insists on Dick being the one to go.

Dickbabs: they either don't have kids (just adopt a bunch of rescues) or maybe have one adoptive kid. Other than Cass who is Babs daughter I don't care what anyone thinks. Just Dick, Barbara and Barbara's daughter who is also Dick's sister. Also, Babs got lucky with Cass being homeschooled, the second she has to deal with the school system she's on the phone with the president blackmailing him to fix it. Easy to say, Dick deals with school exclusively from them on.

BabsDinah: they're the lesbian aunts (that end up doing a lot of the parenting because they can't help themselves). Like, neither of them would really want to have kids of their own, but the second a young vigilante with a shit ton of issues gets dropped in their doorstep it's on. Like, officially they'd be mentors, but they all see each other as family.

Stephcass: Cass is a ticking bomb, she's going to find an ex-murderer kid in need of guidance and just bring them home. Steph is not thrilled at first because they're so young still until she realizes "oh wait no, we're like, adult adults now" and then she has a crisis (unrelated to the child). Also Steph would love love to prove she's better than her father (but would be terrified of messing up). At first they're really chill but soon enough they turn it into a competition with the other Bats. Not a competition between their kids, mind you ("no Cass, that's bad parenting") but a competition of who's the best parent. Jason is terrified of them, but the rest are absolutely down.

Jayroy: asides from our beautiful wonderful and just overall fantastic Lian Harper, I think they might end up adopting some kids. What can I say? I think Jason should have Bruce's adoption gene, but specially for kids in dangerous/hard situations. I'm talking the older kids that never get adopted or younger kids with some sort of disability that need extra accomodations. I think Jason would try very hard to avoid them being vigilantes at least until they're 18. Roy is more chill with vigilantism because well, Lian turned out fine, but he respects Jason's opinion. Most important, no child of his is going to be a Robin to Bruce fucking Wayne. Also, everyone in the PTA would love them, they'd be super involved and Jason would make sure to bribe the appropriate people with muffins.

TimKon: test tube baby, not on purpose though. Like, I don't see Tim as someone actively wanting kids (especially not biological ones) and Kon wouldn't want his kid having to face the problems he did. But like, if Cadmus pulls some weird shit and there's a super baby for the taking, they would both want to make sure they give him the most loving upbringing possible. Another option is Tim accidentally creating their baby while trying to clone Kon while he was dead. That one's plausible and has a lot of angst hurt/comfort potential. Also, Teen Dad Tim after being extremely parentified during his early teens taking care of Bruce (while grieving everyone!) is evil , but a compelling kind of evil. Like a trainwreck you can't look away from.

TimBer: dual income no kids kinda queers. They're over here taking their various nephews to Olive Garden and Disneyland only to drop them off and go live their lovely stress free lives. They may adopt a kid, but that would be only when they really settled down. Let Tim enjoy his 20s (if he ever gets there) my boy has been through enough.

Dukeizzy: again, maybe it's because Duke's still pretty young so he hasn't showed much interest or inclination toward parenting, but I don't have a lot of info to go with. Personally either Dual income "take the kids to do airsoft" kinda uncle/aunt, I can see both of them being really good at giving advice to younger vigilantes (the whole situation of We Are Robin gives you a lot of insight in the power of child vigilantes separated from any mentors, so they're in a particular good spot to mediate between the kids and adults). In the case of them having kids, I think they should inherit Dukes autism (I love that headcanon) and both he and Izzy would be those parents making damn sure their kids get the accommodations they need specially at school. If their kids choose to become vigilantes you bet they're gonna be unionized.

Also, I don't have any particular ship for Damian but you bet that if that boy ever becomes a parent they'd be the softest, sweetest father in the world.

[lemonlimestar]

personally, i don’t understand how someone can like [post-crisis, as this is a mostly post-crisis blog] tim & just… not acknowledge his deep relationships with certain people?? sorry, but we wouldn’t have tim drake without dick grayson. despite his many, many, many, many flaws, bruce and tim have a strong enough bond that tim uprooted to go search for him & that’s not even mentioning the push and pull of his relationships with both jack and bruce. points at that bit in contagion where he asks that jack knows he didn’t love bruce more than him. and need i remind you that he also loves his mom?? he reiterated that he wanted his parents to be back home with him Because he loved them! and they loved him! and in that same plot point (contagion) he dreams that she’s back and cooking the meals she used to when he was younger :( like guys christmas eve was literally his mommy’s funeral!!! if u even care!!!

(u don’t or i wouldn’t be making this post LMAO)

timsteph truther or Not, the impact she has on him can’t just be swept to the wayside for mediocre at best yaoi (megfitz i am looking at u). they’re best friends! and despite all the grief they put each other through they still cling to each other! tim makes wally take him all the way back to gotham during nml to make sure he’s there when steph gives birth!

same goes with him & kon + yj/cassie & bart in general. they are clingy and territorial and clingy and tim is their best friend (and he thinks of them the same). like i’m sorry. ik i joke about this but genuinely how are we glossing over damn near 100 fucking cloning attempts. they were his colors??? bro. ik they bicker in yj98 but brother i’m gonna be real with u they All do that. they’re all passively mean to each other within their friendship & banter & such, kon and tim just so happen to also have the problems with tim’s secret identity more upfront. (which cools instantly after it’s kinda resolved for them in wwyj). timcassie will never read as romantic to me, but does it have to be romantic for the way they fell into each other after kon (and then bart :[) dies to be compelling?? u wouldn’t know this bc it’s very unlikely that u fall into this camp and have also read impulse 95, but did u even know that tim is one of the first people bart turns to when he’s stuck on an issue?? did u know that kon does the same on his solo?? did u know that cassie jokingly(lovingly) calls him her sidekick??

i just feel like the many friendships and relationships that tim has is part of what makes him himself. he’s the team-up guy!! he loves his family and friends!! his closest friends are family to him!! and this isn’t getting into his relationships that are usually ignored entirely or straight up made one dimensional (babs, cass, helena, damian, etc, etc) (to which i would say read nml, read last laugh, read fresh blood, read cry of the huntress, read cry for blood, read gates of gotham)

[leoruby-draws]

Kid Villains, pt 2.

Decided to post more kiddy villains, bit of a sequel to this. First up is Kitten, Mothman's bratty daughter from the 2003 teen titan cartoon:

Modeled her costume after the Rosy Maple Moth, while there are species of moths with the name kitten on them I figured she would prefer a pink outfit.

Thought it'd be kinda cool for her to be a villain for the batkids, she's already evil so why not. I don't imagine her to be all that talented at the job tho she would still be very dangerous if you underestimate her. I think she would work particularly well against Steph, being that Mothman started as a villain for Barbara (Cass might be too high level for her tbh).

Here's some more doodles:

Here's my Scarecrow's sidekick oc, I should probably name her something like Rag Doll or Raggedy Scream maybe? The three boys are oc's modeled after the Terrible Trio, criminals who commit crimes wearing animal masks. Their identities change a lot over continuities, so these kids are probably aspiring to be the next incarnation of this group.

Here's another random oc, a sidekick for White Rabbit (Jaina Hudson). Thought it'd be funny if it was just a kid in a silly rabbit suit, like what the kid wore in that movie, A Christmas Story. I'm not sure on what his personality should be. Maybe someone genuinely nice, a cheerful, polite boy who likes to hand people bombs (unintentionally dangerous) or maybe someone pretending to be nice but is actually malicious. Whatever's funnier I suppose.

Here's some characters inspired by the Super Friends enemies, the Super Foes. You'd see some of them return for the Robins 2021 mini, except for Toy Boy. Giggles and Guffaw are newer, only appearing in the mini.

I messed with their designs a bit to make them more unique looking. Honeysuckle for example was shown with either red or brown hair but I gave her a sorta dark maroon, thought it contrasted well with her green outfit. Honeysuckle btw, is older than the rest, and is more of an enemy to Dick and Barbara, tho her teenage self has no problem attacking the younger sibs.

Also Giggles and Guffaw might look a little similar to a certain anime starring a group of sextuplets, just being a little funny there. I gave these kids some made up names, mostly taken from whatever writer created them. Couple of them worked out pretty well actually, like Bridwell (well, spring, stream) and Estrada (Road).

This next one is a character from the 2004 cartoon The Batman, which I never actually watched but I did see commercials of. His name is Prank ( Donnie ?), a protege of the Joker. He wasn't evil enough to stick it out, but I gotta say I just loved his costume (esp how the jacket resembles Robins coat a bit). Made up a last name for him, just a random one from searching up famous clowns.

Being Barbara's peer, he's also more of a antagonist for the older kids, decided he and Honeysuckle should friends. I kinda want to use them as a sorta contrast to Babs and Dick, that could be fun to do. Also look at baby Dick, I don't draw him enough at this age.

Speaking of Barbara, I've been going back and forth between having her start out as either 12 or 16. All the other kids start out really young, so it makes sense for Babs to do so as well. But I kinda like the thought of her starting out much older, makes her more unique among the batkids (in pre-crisis she became Batgirl in like her 20s btw, cool huh?)

More various rivals for the kids to fight, excluding my oc Pink Rabbit, all of them more antagonists for the kids themselves rather sidekicks of the villains that Batman fights.

Here's Jason and Steph torturing poor little Enigma, who would be considered the bad guy here?

Here's some more proteges, Holly probably exists in this world, she's a bit too old for all this nonsense tho. Kitten is also a Super Foes member and was in Robins 2021 as well, she's been shown to be a sidekick to the Cheetah and Catwoman. Maybe she's just likes to attach herself to any cat-themed villain.

Crazy Quilt is more of an enemy to Robin than Batman, plus he has his own legacy in Crazy Quilt II, so obviously I had to include them. I wonder what name should I give the younger one, Duvet? Silly Blankie? idk

Lastly here's Earth 3(?) Jason Todd as Talon II paying a visit to the Training Wheels universe, seems like hes a bit of a crybaby. I don't think we've seen a earth 3 variant of Jason, so I'm just making up my own version of him. Wonder why he seems so nervous...

Anyways!! That was a lot, hope you liked all that!

[disniq]

Hey, I have a comics question for you—I've seen the concept of Bruce having compared Jason unfavorably to Dick while he was Robin referenced a fair amount in fics, and I feel like I remember seeing you talk about it before? Maybe? So I thought you might know. But I was just wondering if there was a canon basis for it anywhere, because the only time I actually remember any comparison happening during post-crisis was that time Jason was in the hospital and /he/ called Dick better than him and then Bruce reassured him. That said, I really did not pay attention to a lot of the flashbacks/retcons on Jason's Robin run from N52 or Rebirth, so I thought maybe there could be something there?

(Just to clarify, absolutely not meant to be any shade on this trope implied in this question, it's just something where I've seen it across multiple authors and so I'm curious where it came from.)

Hi! I'm sorry this took so long to answer, real life has been kicking my ass this week.

So! I did a quick check of the comics I thought most likely to contain such a comparison - Nightwing Year Zero, early RHATOs, all the various JayDick teamups - and I can't find any panels of Bruce himself directly comparing Jason to Dick either.

But there are at least a few examples in more modern comcis of Jason voicing resentment about Bruce's standards and how they relate to Dick;

Nightwing (2021) annual

Batman Urban Legends (2021) #1

There's also a small mention in Batman Eternal of Babs comparing them when Jason was Robin;

Batman Eternal Vol. 1

I think it's fair to extrapolate that, even if Bruce didn't say it directly to Jason's face, it's plausible that Jason could have picked up on the general feeling of being compared to his predecessor.

Also, I personally kinda like the meta intersection with the way irl fans and writers insisted on comparing him to Dick (which is understandable, given that Jason was the first legacy sidekick. People didn't know how to deal with someone new taking up an existing mantle)

But, yeah, I'm gonna call this one another example of fandom running away with the ~implications~

[roipecheur]

oh it's funny when people have a blanket ban against batcest. like they don't dislike it solely when they consider themselves family, it's just an issue regardless. when they've only recently met? an au where they don't even meet until adulthood? nope, all of those are just as bad apparently

Yeah for one thing I don't care if people do ship fictional incest, but even the most canon-compliant "batcest" isn't incest unless it's Bruce/Damian, and maybe brudick or brujay depending on the permutation. Generally I think if someone wants to incestify their shipping and give either brudick or brujay (or even brutim) dadson vibes, or give any of the ones Bruce adopted sibling incest vibes, whatever, you do you, but I also think it's equally valid and honestly closer to canon if you don't.

Bruce and Dick have a complex relationship but calling them unambiguously father and son feels like trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. Bruce adopted Dick as an adult and Tim either as an adult or almost adult, Idk because I haven't read that far in Tim's pre-Flashpoint run yet. Tim also lived with his father for almost his whole childhood--Jack Drake died when Tim was 17. He didn't grow up with Bruce and wouldn't see him as his father, he already had one.

Bruce did adopt Jason as a kid, but Jason in total lived with him for three years and then died. Who knows if any aspect of that relationship survived Jason's death and resurrection and if they'd really consider themselves father and son now.

Cass was adopted by Bruce also and maybe considers him kinda her dad/a father figure, but she was also adopted as an older teenager and she also already had a father--albeit a terrible one (David Cain). Due to how he raised her, her feelings about relationships in general are probably gonna be complicated.

Steph was never adopted by Bruce and never lived under his roof, and she probably thanks her lucky stars every day lmao. Calling shipping her with literally any of the other bats & birds "incest" is just....not true.

Even in the context of adult or nearly adult adoption, this isn't necessarily Bruce being parental and seeing Dick, Tim, and Cass as his children. Though it could be that, it could also be that Bruce wanted them to have legal protections and resources in case he died. Afaik, his closest living biological relatives are the Kanes, who he isn't particularly close to in post-Crisis and pre-Flashpoint, which is most of what I've read. It makes sense that he'd want to adult-adopt Dick in those circumstances.

Adult adoption was also a way for gay couples to get around not being able to marry each other before that was legal. So. Very valid to interpret that as brudick imo.

Dick was in college before Bruce took Jason in. They never lived under the same roof and never formed a close relationship. Jason died before Tim showed up. Dick and Tim also never lived together, and their relationship is closer to mentor/mentee and then friends. You can interpret them as brothers, but listen. Babs was originally 8-10 years older than Dick, and in older canon content was sometimes more attracted to Bruce. Dicktim isn't any weirder than dickbabs, which is canon.

Tim and Cass were closest in age, and Cass was living at the manor and was Batgirl while Tim was Robin, but...Cass and Steph were friends. Tim and Steph were dating. Cass and Tim? Coworkers at best. They tried working together once after they both moved to Blüdhaven and then went "lol never mind" and worked alone. Absolutely they were not 'siblings'.

Jason, it goes without saying, would not see anyone who arrived after his death as a 'sibling'. It's arguable whether he'd see Dick like that.

I admittedly haven't gotten to Damian yet, but Tim is already seventeen, and Damian hasn't even shown up. I doubt they interact in a way that would let them develop a sibling-like relationship. I've also seen Damian's relationship with Dick vary from seeing him as a parental figure to seeing him as an older brother to seeing him as a mentor...but in any case. They're not related, and you can interpret their relationship differently.

And yes, I know WFA is a thing, and I know that they have been trying to nuclear family-ify and sibling-ify the bats & birds in more recent canon....but that does not match with most of what was going on with those bitches from the 80s to 2011 and, as I said in the tags of another post:

batcest this. batcest that. [shrek voice] they're not even related.

tl;dr you're absolutely right and it's just pointless, moral purity screeching of trying to find something "problematic" about certain ships instead of just admitting "hey it's not for me" and moving on. If someone wants to interpret the various bats & birds as a happy family, that's fine! But it's not the only valid interpretation, it doesn't have a basis in most of canon, and it's ridiculous for people to pretend like it does.

[northoftheroad]

I know I just gave you an ask and you must be super busy, but what do you think abt Dickory vs Dickbabs?? Personally, I think Dickory is way better but in Tom Taylor’s run and the current runs, Dickbabs is the main ship. Anyways, I just wanted your opinion on it :D

Also thoughts on Tom Taylor’s run? I thought about it and I kinda have mixed feelings. On one hand, it’s great for fanservice and has some super cute and funny moments. On the other hand, the characters and their relationships are kinda one dimensional. Thoughts?? Take your time and thanks if you answer! <3

Hi, As I've said before (and I'm going to quote myself from older posts here quite a lot, if you happen to come across them 😉 ), I'm fine with both pairings as long as it's well written. I guess a lot of fans lean towards preferring what they grew up with and such like. I'm old enough to have started reading Batman when the idea of another Robin than Dick Grayson was ludicrous, and read the NTT in my slightly older teens. So I definitely have a nostalgic feeling for Dick/Kory.

I think they worked well because they were so different; they each learned from the other and grew as people. Being with Kory helped Dick become more emotionally open after some ten years of growing up with Bruce and Alfred. In NTT # 26, he talks about how he is too introspective and that Batman taught him to be guided by his head, not his heart. And in turn, I'd say Kory learned not always to be ruled by her emotions, and Dick helped to ground her on Earth. They had their fair share of problems, one obstacle was their different approach to relationships and sex. While Starfire is fine with being married to another guy, for reasons of state, but live with Dick, it takes Dick quite some time to come to terms with that he loves Kory enough to get over that. Dick and Kory were one of the most stable and loving couples in DC for over ten years. Now, in superhero comics, writers and/or editoral make the rules. There were plans to let them get married, but as far as I remember a change of editorial led to that being scrapped. We got Dick being raped by Mirage instead, and eventually, the couple split up. Disregarding that, I think you could very well see them growing apart. They were young when they started dating. I guess they were a couple for two-three years? At that age, it's not unreasonable to think they developed in ways that made them decide to go their separate ways.

If Dick and Kory were good because they were poles apart, I'd say Dick and Barbara are more alike. They have both worked with Batman; they are originally street-level detectives and athletes; they are used to work in similar ways. I could see them as a slightly more mature couple than Dick and Kory, being more in sync and relaxed with each other because they have similar backgrounds and shared experiences. (Which, of course, could make them a more boring couple in fiction…) I'm not a fan of the retcon that they've been friends since school, but they did work occasionally together as youngsters, so it can still make sense to write them as really good friends, imo. I honestly think Dick and Kory have been written as a good couple more than Dick and Barbara. Maybe things had been different if Devin Grayson had got the chance to tie up her long arc with Dick in Nightwing vol 2. Not that I think her run was without its problems, but it would presumably have been better if she had got the opportunity to finish what she started. The ending (or rather the absence of a decent ending) of her run, and the fact that the first Nightwing stories after Infinite Crisis were downright cringeworthy, has soured my impression of her writing of Dick/Babs. So I guess editorial decisions have ruined both Dick's most important relationships…?

I don't know if you're new to the debate about Dick/Kory vs. Dick/Barbara? Because it's sometimes a heated discussion, with people claiming he doesn't deserve either of them, he mistreated one or the other etc.

(Here's what Barbara herself had to say about Dick, by the way. In Birds of Prey # 71. By Gail Simone, art Ron Adrian and Rob Lea.)

I can definitely work myself up too much about fictional characters myself, but there are a few things I try to keep in mind… Fictional characters have no agency. Creators and editoral use them to tell stories (and sell stuff…). Don't get angry at fictional characters or, even worse, real people who love them. Also, reading comics is a lot about filling in the blanks between panels, and different readers can put a book down with very different pictures of what has happened. You can absolutely find examples where Dick has been written as behaving badly against both of them. Sometimes, it's a reasonable part of the writer's long game, sometimes it actually is bad and out-of-character writing. (And if you look, you can find examples where the women have been written as behaving badly against Dick too.)

Honestly, the most important thing for me when it comes to Dick and relationships is that he takes them very seriously indeed. Dick has not had a lot of one-night stands and is on record as saying he's not comfortable with casual sex. When he had one with Helena/Huntress, he wanted to talk about starting a relationship just because of that. When he (fake) married a girl to try to expose her as a murderer, he still avoided to sleep with her, and then he offered to stay with her when the case was closed, because he felt bad for deceiving her. Outside the blasted annual, I don't know of any time he was written as (knowingly) having sex with someone while he's in a relationship with another. Girls tend to break up with him, not the other way around. I'm sure other people have different ideas, and it can vary between writers and eras, but I think you can read Dick as someone who likes to be in a relationship, to be intimate with someone – but who's not into casual sex.

When it comes to Tom Taylor's run, I pretty much agree with you. I don't hate it, as some people seem to do, but I think the art has been the best part. It's mostly been pretty meh, TT has at several times spoken about how Nightwing is an A-lister among DC superheroes, but I don't think he shows it. And here and there he produces some really nice panels/pages (sometimes it's up to debate whether the characters are out of character or not). We're heading towards the end of his and Bruno Redondon's run and they've hinted he's going to stop being Nightwing. As if we need a third period of Dick not being Nightwing in ten years… 🙄 The best writer of Nightwing vol 4 was Sam Humphries, in my opinion. Unfortunately, it was very short.

Ok, this post has definitely gone on long enough... but if you want to go deeper into the rabbit hole, here are some earlier posts.

[seilnakyle]

I notice you posted lots of old comic panels about Dick and Babs' interactions. It was really good source materials for their superhero dynamic as partners in crime! They truly deserved their Dynamite Duo title.

And while it was clear Dick harbored feelings for Babs in their early days, it wasn't the same for her, although they've been teased romantically together a lot in old batfam comics (*coughs* the wedding panel). Maybe for the gags or something, even the writers admitted they never intended to make those two a thing (in the post crisis)

But still, Babs was much closer in age to Bruce compared to Dick who was a teenager, barely legal. (cmiiw). Babs said so herself in one of the post crisis batman comic books you posted: "I flirted with the first Robin for a while, but he was so young, Batman was the one on my mind."

This is just pure curiosity, apologies if i word it poorly. Does this mean you don't mind DickBabs original age gap? Or perhaps you take those two's out of continuity's interactions as proof of their existing love chemistry, thus predating the other ship? Just genuinely curious of your thoughts about this! :D

So I guess I’ll start with the age thing to preface that I don’t think it’s problematic to ship this version of them. When Dick and Babs first meet in Detective Comics #359, there is a pretty obvious age gap, and there is absolutely no hint of romance between the two at this point (though Robin does seem to like her immediately) and there would not be until years later when Dick is IN COLLEGE. So the age difference is Dick at 18/19 and Babs at 25 which is a seven to eight year difference. In comparison, Bruce adopted nine year old Dick in his late 20s. It makes sense to me that she would be able to relate better to an 18/19 year old than a man in his late 30s

And of course Babs was originally added to comics to be a love interest for Bruce (REALLY the whole reason for her million dollar debut was because when Eartha Kitt was cast as Catwoman, the show would no longer use her as a Love Interest, which is why Batgirl was created, and became so popular that she was added to the comics) and some writers attempted to throw in her having a crush on Bruce like from the quote you gave, but in the actual stories, there was little to no evidence of their being actual feelings between the two. Babs even says herself that she doesn’t have ANY romantic interest in Batman

Batman #197

Now you are correct that the writer of Batman Family said he didn’t intend to actually put Dick and Babs together when writing them, but (just my opinion) this isn’t really important in the long run. Stan Lee certainly didn’t intend for MJ Watson to become Spidey’s wife when he first created that character. Jason Todd wasn’t created specifically to die. And Barbara Gordon was supposed to disappear forever after The Killing Joke. Stories change, writers change, and characters change with them.

As for Babs’ side of the crush, well, I kinda disagree that it was completely one sided. Now MIND YOU, if Babs had been fully awake when Dick confessed his feelings for her, I do not think Babs would have verbally reciprocated. I think she would have reminded him of the age difference (I think she would want him to finish college first) and also again remind him he already has a gf in poor much forgotten Lori Elton lol

Now saying all this, she def still had a crush too, but she recognized that he was too young for now, and was open to other relationships. Dick would go on to have a happy long lasting relationship with Kory, and Babs would be with Jason Bard

The Batman Family #10

I do ship these versions of them, but (bc I see Dickbabs as one of the best slow burn romances in comics) I don’t really want them together until they are older and more mature.

I feel this sentiment remains the same in Batgirl Year One.

[n64spoon]

random ted kord hc's because im going insane and need to spread propaganda SOMEWHERE.

love language (giving)

ive done alot if thinking about this one and have come to the conclusion that his love languages are acts of service and gift giving. i kinda based this decision off of how he acts with babs and booster in countdown to infinite crisis. dude is about to go bankrupt AGAIN but he's still offering to pay for tickets and lets booster borrow his card, even if it negatively affects him. hes a superhero for one but also his entire reasoning behind becoming the second blue beetle was because he feels like he OWES it to dan, he wants to make up for his blind faith to his uncle which lead to dans death. i think he loves doing favours for people because it makes him feel good about himself, and he loves the feeling of being appreciated.

love language (receiving)

words of affirmation and physical touch. he has boundaries when it comes to the physical touch of course, but booster is the main exception, with ted being quite touchy himself at times. i like to base this off of the first appearance of dan's death in blue beetle 1967 where as dan says his last words hes caressing teds face UGHH that shit fucks me up man -- but i can definitely imagine him melting in someones hands if they held his face or something (booster, of course).

then theres the words of affirmation. ted gets compliments alot, obviously, usually due to his status in hub city and his intelligence. but there are times where he feels unappreciated or isnt taken seriously, usually by higher ranked heroes (cough cough BATMAN cough) . in countdown to infinite crisis (yes im referencing this comic AGAIN im SORRY) he is pushed aside constantly by multiple people. the few people who did listen to him, namely superman and wonderwoman, its stated in booster gold 2007 he "felt bad for wasting their time.". ted needs reassurance, he needs to be reassured that he isnt a bother. though at times a wise-cracking jerk, he still does care about how others view him. and spending like most or his childhood being put down by his father and then years later by heroes he works with he deserves someone telling him he's doing good once in awhile 😭.

[sporkberries]

Do you have any Huntress/Helena Bertinelli issue or comic run recs? 👉👈 you have infected me with helena brainrot (positive)

So There are a two ways I can answer this question, the way i did previously with just the comics I'd recommend to get started or a full timeline for her- This time ill go with the full timeline. If you just wanna dip your metaphorical toes in the water check out this post, if you want to read her story from start to finish this is the post for you.

FIRST SOME CONTEXT ON HELENA BERTINELLI'S CHARACTER CREATION. Pre Crisis on Infinite Earth's there was a character known as Helena Wayne, she was the daughter of Earth Two's Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle and was The Huntress. She was fairly popular but the whole uhh massive crisis event erased her from continuity. The problem was people still wanted Huntress she was a recognizable name and also just people liked her so Helena Bertinelli was created. Despite sharing a first name and a superhero name Helena B and Helena W are INCREDIBLY different characters in personality and just.. in like every conceivable way. Alrighty now lets get started, Helena Bertinelli makes her first ever appearance in The Huntress(1989) I really like this comic run. It's pretty intense dealing with both CSA as well as SA but i think it does it pretty respectfully and well. Overall I really like this comic, that being said the art is a bit... rough, so i understand not wanting to read it. The Huntress(1989) 'era' of Helena ends with Justice League International Special 2, which btw if anyone has an actual good scan of this please let me know because my scan is ASS Then we got Detective comics #652-653 which has Helena's new costume and a team up with B-Man himself. Now its time for Robin III: Cry Of the Huntress- This is the first Helena and Tim team up!! I love them so much they r so silly so I consider this book required reading, also Helena has an awful mullet it's amazing Helena also has another story with Tim around this time in Benedictions which is a three part story in Dc Showcase 1994 # 5, Robin(1993) #6 , Showcase #6. Azrael is also running around as Batman during this so thats fun and quirky(i like azbat okay)

Next is Dixon's Helena with Huntress(1994) ERMM this is a comic that exists. It has some panels I like but i don't think its required reading it's uhh... Dixon!! and WOagh no wayyy another tim team up its almost like they are siblings bffs 5ever this is crazy Detective Comics #685-686 and Robin #17 also sidenote i like Lynx's 90's design a lot sighh Next is a string of complicated and long story lines. With Batman Contagion, Batman Legacy, Batman Catacylsm, and Batman No Man's Land. Also she gets her best outfit here yayyy :). Now parsing through all this stuff I don't really care that much about Batman: Legacy and I'm not gonna lie to you and say I've read Contagion in it's entirety because I haven't. Just know that Gotham gets hit by a mutated ebola virus and it sucks and is bad for everybody sjdkfbasdkg. Also again cool new Helena outfit top ten epic moments. Before all the No Man's Land stuff there is Birds Of Prey: ManHunt and Nightwing/Huntress. I do not like the latter and have no strong opinion on the former other than it's the start of a long line of Babs treating Helena like shit. ManHunt does have Dinah and Helena interactions though so :) yippeee Almost forgot this but Read Detective Comics #703 its a really cute Helena and Tim story read it right now thank you XOXOOXO I consider Cataclysm and No Man's Land, No Man's Land especially, CRITICAL HELENA READING. HELENA IS SO GOOD IN NML OH MY GOD. Cataclysm is kinda the set up to No Man's Land and also has a cool Helena/Steph teamup in Blunt Trauma. But No Man's Land is where the really juicy stuff is. I'm not really gonna say what specific issues Helena shows up in because you should really read all of or most of No Man's Land as its not only an important Helena story but THE MOST IMPORTANT Gotham story(in modern times anyway). I read the 5 trades but I've heard good things about the Omnibus as well. If you need further help with No Mans Land and how to read it just shoot me an ask or smth. READ NO MAN'S LAND Okay now after NML Huntres Joins the Justice Leauge of America in JLA #16. I have not read all of Helena's JLA stuff so i cant really comment on it I'm a failure sorry... NOW FOR THE RUCKA STUFF GREG RUCKA LOVE OF MY LIFE!!!!! So First check out Batman Chronicles #15, it's not all Helena but it does have a Helena story which is her first meeting with The Question so erm go read that !!! Now time for one of my fave huntress stories, Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood. THIS STORY IS SO FUCKING GOOD. It does retcon Helena's previous backstory which i have mixed opinions on but the new backstory is far from bad and also its just soosososo good i love greg rucka so much go read it right fucking now. Now I have bad news for you gamers. We have the Hush storyline wherein Jim Lee introduced the dreaded Helena Ab Window. Hush is generally pretty good but that outfit is uhhh an outfit!! she starts showing up in Batman #609 Generally speaking I do like this storyline so I would recommend the whole thing. Helena regularly starts appearing as a main character in Birds Of Prey at issue 56. Birds Of Prey IS a mixed bag but most of Helena's appearances from here on are in there so... Be prepared for a healthy dose of sexism though. Outside of BOP check out The Question: Pipelines which is a story in Detective Comics 854-864 written by love of my life Rucka of course. Helena is not in the whole thing but its a good story and her and Renee are a great Duo so I recommend it. While your out it also check out both issues of The Question: Convergence. Also written by Rucka and featuring Helena, its good :). Now I did leave some shit out like Battle for the Cowl but thats because I dont like battle for the cowl and also I don't think Helena is very central in those stories so TA DAA here is my list enjoy anon sorry for any spelling errors Tutorial on how i read comics safely

[soleminisanction]

Something I realized recently when I started deep diving into supergirl is that she has barely any connection to Stephanie brown. Like I knew there wouldn’t be that much interaction or development because of how the timelines fit together but there really is nothing there. Their entire friendship is basically built on a couple of batgirl issues and the plans for a new young justice that never actually happened. There’s not even a meta connection between them. Honestly if people had to ship Kara with another blue-eyed blonde girl Cassie is already a much better fit (or give Kara her history back and let her kiss babs, the batgirl she actually has romantic tension with)

I've never even heard about the "new YJ" thing, though there were three other female characters -- Stargirl, Miss Martian, and Bombshell -- who randomly showed up in the second-to-last issue of Steph's Batgirl run completely out of nowhere because apparently Brian Miller had wanted to make them part of Steph's retinue but never got the chance so he shoved them in at the last minute. So if he was going to pitch that as a new YJ, thank god it didn't happen.

Kara also comes out of fucking nowhere in Batgirl 2019 but apparently they met in a...World's Finest mini-series, I think? Apparently the same one where Tim met up with Nightwing!Chris Kent? That's what at least one article says anyway, I haven't been able to find that book so I don't know for sure. But yeah, other than that, Brian Miller et al just went, "Hey, people loved Batgirl and Supergirl together in the animated series, so let's make Kara Steph's new bestie!" and then she just started turning up and doing the stock 'cool Bat and puppy dog Super' routine. It was really forced.

As for Kara and Babs... the awkward thing is, they didn't actually didn't have much of a relationship in the comics either. The timelines didn't match up. Babs was a relative late-comer, compared to Kara -- she's a Bronze Age creation that came about because of the success of her character on the Adam West show, only got introduced in the 70s, whereas Kara was early Silver Age if iirc. They only interacted about a half-dozen times before Kara was taken out of continuity by Crisis on Infinite Earths and, not long after that, The Killing Joke happened.

The Batgirl/Supergirl relationship was mostly popularized by the cartoons; it only got introduced to the comics very recently in the Batgirl of Burnside era. Whereas yeah, Kara actually has a well-established friendship with Cassie -- she's an honorary Amazon, she's been a Titan, hell, she's had more adventures with Tim than with Steph.

But yeah, it can be kinda tricky when pop culture origins get mixed together like that. And that's without factoring in the weirdness that is Supergirl's comics history post-Crisis, they went to some odd places with her.

[cephalog0d]

Hey, Batfans, are you a weird completionist who likes sortable data way too much, like me? Do you want a giant spreadsheet of appearances of a bunch of Batfam members that you can filter across multiple people to see where they show up in the same issue together?

WELL GOOD NEWS because thanks to my hyperfixation I made a spreadsheet. (It's view-only but if you save a copy it should be editable for personal use.)

The Spreadsheet currently contains all post-crisis appearances for the following characters: Barbara Gordon, Cassandra Cain, Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson, Duke Thomas, Harper Row, Helena Bertinelli, Jace Fox, Jarro, Jason Todd, Jean-Paul Valley, Kate Kane, Luke Fox, Stephanie Brown and Tim Drake. I feel like that's most of the big ones (and several not-very-big-ones), but if there's a Bat-person missing you'd like to see on there, feel free to ask!

This is up to date through July 2023. I have intentions to keep updating it on a semi-monthly basis, but we'll see if that happens.

All sheets are conditionally formatted so if you enter "Y" in the Read column it will highlight the whole row in green to mark it off, if you're the kind of person who likes to keep track and mark things off a list.

The Master List is filterable by any character, and more importantly, multiple characters! Up to "all of them" although I don't think anything actually contains *all* of them.

(Some more notes below)

SOME NOTES:

Dates are the start of the series, since that's how a lot of places besides DC itself with their weird "volume" convention distinguish different runs.

These aren't sorted by preboot vs. New 52 vs. Rebirth vs. IF, sorry, that was too many sorting functions for now. You can kinda figure it out by date, though (New 52 was 2011, Rebirth was 2016, IF was 2022) or look up the issue on a wiki and see what version of the character is tagged.

On that note, all of this was pulled from the DC Wiki, and while I did a little bit of spot-checking as I went for things I knew off the top of my head it's entirely possible things are missing or mis-attributed. I'm happy to update accordingly if there are.

Similarly, I didn't go through every issue here to check what role people are appearing in, either in terms of what identity they're using (e.g. Spoiler vs Robin vs Batgirl) or if they're a major character or not. Some of these are as minor as background appearances or off-screen mentions. Some day I might add more metadata to sort for those things, but right now that's not part of it.

[elirium]

Important notes people who know more than i do had:

#tiny note but as a jpv fan. he didn’t grow up in the cult#his dad put all the cult info into his subconscious memory but jpv himself didn’t know anything about the order until after his dad was shot#and crawled to jpv’s door as Azrael and died in his apartment after admitting their whole life was a lie#so you can add that to the trauma bucket!#(also his dad had the same name azrael is a generational thing etc)

from @avaraydrake

#okay as someone who just finished reading Az’s 100issue run#I wanna mention that ur on the right track abt his mom being assumed dead before he knew her HOWEVER#jpv also went on an adventure when he thought she might be alive and the woman that he thought was his mom then sacrificed herself to save#him :) directly in front of him :) and I’m STILL HAVING FEELINGS ABT IT#and depending on where you place it jpv has also died (at the end of his run akdjks SPOILERS LMAO) but idk if they ever resurrected him or#what. haven’t checked his wiki just yet abt that but ye \o/ love this boy and his weird almost-Catholic-but-more-Gen-cult guilt

from @dyketectivecomics

1) he killed i'm pretty sure two people canonically? (at least pre reboot) only one of them directly though (the other, he let fall into a Vat while having a mental health crisis, near the end of i think knightquest the crusade?? or begining of knightsend) 2) bruce also doesn't hate him, he just doesn't give a shit about him past using Azrael and controlling them, which, imo, is kinda worse?? the number of people who fully accepts both jp and az is tiny (it's like. babs. cass. debatably alfred) 3) azzy isn't evil!! he's very dear to me, and the fact that over the course of sword of azrael/knightfall/azrael and also the new azrael we have, he has sooo much character developpement is so important to me. even as soon as sword of azrael, he tries to go against what he's been made for to be an angel of mercy instead of angel of death. he's kind of shit at it, but like. he's trying!! he's shown with compassion more than once, making choices to save ppl instead of going for the kill etc 4) dick relationship: no notes. should add that jp also doesn't like dick and is kind of dramatic about it. once dick kissed the girl jp likes. "the heir to a stilted throne" or something 5) star wars: no notes, he was a comp sci major, of course he likes star wars 6) kind of. don't think you could make azrael's activation work the same as the pit? but like. i'd like to see it done. but a plot point the tim&jason EtC fic writers love is to have tim idolize jason pre-pit. though you might have it work with tim idolizing jp as a hacker or smth idk 7) vibes are immaculate, i hope people do write more jpv & tim fics that don't make jp/az a malicious abuser for most of knightfall when they really weren't (mostly told him to stay away, though the choking Did happen),i also hope you have a nice day, thank you for reading my ramblings JPV and Azzy are soooo important to me <33

from @creetchure

A helpfull step by step guid on how to turn your EtC jason & tim fics into Etc Jean-Paul Valley & tim fics

for people who have never read a comic <3

i made a power point

[kara-zor-els]

do you have any recommendations for dick and jason (together or separate, both is fine) comics for someone who’s just starting to read them? i have some knowledge of the characters and batfam and i’ve read several batman comics, but i never really got into the robins-after-they-were-robins comis so i’d like to start with dick and jason…thank you so much :)

I really don't think I'm the person to ask for this, as I'm both very new to comics and I haven't read a lot of batfam, but for Jason I'd safely recommend:

Batman: Hush (not essential, he shows up in a few issues towards the end and is then seemingly revealed to be clayface. I say seemingly because it was then retconed to have actually been him at the beginning. Iconic for introducing the white steak though)

Under The Red Hood (sometimes also known as Batman: Under The Hood)

Teen Titans vol.3 #29 (the famous Jason breaking into Titans Tower issue)

Red Hood: Lost Days

Nightwing: Brothers in blood (bad but it's where you get tentacle monster jason. Casually Comics on YouTube did a good review of those issues, which I would recommend)

He was also in countdown to final crisis, which I have not read yet but will probably get to once I decide to read final crisis.

I'm not too familiar with later appearances as the universe shifts into the New 52. This is where the Red Hood and the Outlaws (Roy and Starfire) era comes from, where Jason gets softened up a lot. I have not read it because I'm honestly not too interested in Lobdell's writing.

Then there is the rebirth run on RHATO (with Bizzaro and Artemis) which I heard is more readable? But still tragically written by Lobdell. However the last two issues are a self contained story by a different writer, which I'd recommend

In conclusion: read UTRH, Teen Titans #29 and Red Hood: Lost Days for pre Flashpoint Red Hood Jason and maybe check out RHATO rebirth for post Flashpoint Jason? @dailyjasontodd has a cohesive reading list for him.

Now as for Dick... his 90s nightwing run is generally considered a good starting point (I have read a few issues here and there), unless you want to start from the beginning of his nightwing career with the 80s new teen titans run. He also pops up in other batman-related comics (I'd personally recommend birds of prey (1999) but he only pops up sporadically. Issue #8 sets the base for his relationship with oracle!babs)) and eventually has a run as batman (with Damian as his robin) after Bruce "dies" in Final Crisis in Batman & Robin 2009 (I'm skipping a few events here). He then had a few nighwing runs during and after the n52 (and a run as Grayson). You can pick up the most recent nightwing run (Tom Taylor) as it's pretty beginners friendly (I mean I'm a beginner and I could follow it just fine) but it's honestly just kinda boring? The art looks great though, so at least there is that.