#BUT HE IS SO UTE ISN'T HE? | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

rustedleopard · 22 days ago

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Hello, I saw in one of your asks that you think that Chujin tortured integrity. It makes me wonder what do you think all the kids postmortem experience was? I know the main game implied the souls were some degree of sentient but uty goes further in allowing us to control "soul" Clover like normal. Do you think they ever had a subconscious inkling of what might have happened to then before sacrificing themselves (going by that video essay were Clover subconsciously remembered resets)? Was Alphys any worse (or better?) than Chujin?

I'll break my answer up into 4 parts.

Chujin torturing Integrity: Not gonna lie here, I did jump the gun when I said that Chujin tortured Integrity. There's nothing in the game that outright proves that Integrity was tortured, though I don't think Integrity was having a good time being a guinea pig in Chujin's experiments. But not having a good time ≠ being tortured. So was Integrity tortured and that's another Sin Point™ for Chujin? Eh. Meh. Depends on your headcanons for the situation. Which leads into...

What do the SOULs experience after death?: The way I interpret it, the short answer is ✨ NOTHING ✨ (in two unique flavors!!). Being able to feel/interact with things requires having a nervous system that can respond to sensory signals, after all, and uh. If you're dead, you don't have that. So none of the kids could see/hear/smell/taste anything. As for the two variations, here are the options:

The humans have no sense for time passing or anything that's happening/happened to them without a vessel. As soon as they die and their SOUL is plucked from their body, it's like a switch is flipped. No signals are getting in, they're entirely unaware of everything though they are still "alive." You can play hacky sack with their SOUL and they'd be entirely unaware that anything is happening to them. Stick them back in a vessel though, and that switch is thrown back on and suddenly they can use all the senses that that new body has available to them. Personally I'm not too fond of this interpretation but I decided to include it because I have thought about it from time to time. You'll want to read option 2 if you wanna see what I generally default to. (If this is the case with the human SOULs, then I can't say that Integrity was truly tortured since they'd be entirely unaware that they were being experimented on.)

The humans have no sense for anything that's happening unless they are being interacted with. Essentially as long as a human SOUL is in their pickle jar/not being touched, they're entirely unaware of anything that's happening to them. But touch them and they can suddenly perceive the world, just a bit. They can feel when they're being touched, maybe pick up on a few words that are being said to them/see a bit of what the person who is handling them sees/glean a few sensory details from their handler (like if they're hurt) if the sensation is strong enough, but put them down and that effect goes away. They're less perceptive of inorganic things touching them, but they're far more aware when living things or magic is interacting with their SOUL. It's only when they're absorbed into a vessel that they get complete access to the body's senses as well as the ability to control the body. This is what I tend to imagine 95% of the time when I'm thinking about the SOUL situation of the fallen kids. (If this is the case, then Integrity being experimented on can certainly constitute torture, depending on what Chujin was doing to them. I can see him being cautious to not damage the SOUL so it doesn't shatter, but caution ≠ careful/mindful of if it hurts or not. And, let's be honest here, I doubt he'd care much if he was hurting Integrity; he wouldn't go out of his way to try to hurt them, but if his experiments are painful, he'd probably feel like they deserve it for the Snowdin Incident/because they're a human, so what does it matter?)

Either way, the human SOULs are not floating in a dark void in the middle of nowhere, because perceiving darkness still counts as perceiving something and they're not perceiving anything as a SOUL. It's literally perceiving nothing. Not a thing.

I also see the human SOULs as not perceiving time the same way that a human would. They're aware that time is passing/become aware when they're put in a vessel, but have no real sense for it. Like when you're staying up late and you check your clock the first time and it says 10:00pm, then you do something for a bit and suddenly it's almost 2 am and you're like "Whoa, where did the time go?!" except instead of a few hours lost, it's years.

Clover and remembering RESETs: Let me preface this by saying that I am not certain I am familiar with the video essay that you are referring to. So, perhaps some info is lost here. Personally, I can't see Clover as remembering RESETs. Reloads? Sure. But not a RESET. Flowey is the one with the Save File. He controls whether or not Clover lives or dies. Even in a situation where they gain enough Determination to overcome Flowey, the moment they RESET, they lose all that Determination and Flowey gets the Save File again. There's nothing in canon that proves that they experience deja vu, but if they did, it'd probably be just a weird feeling that they can shake off quickly and it doesn't do much to alter their course (for example, they'd know to not trust Ceroba in subsequent Pacifist Runs, especially if they're coming off a previous Flawed Pacifist Run where they may not be feeling so favorably towards her at the end of it).

Flowey's dialogue at the end of a Neutral Run where he talks about how Clover is getting better at getting through the Underground is more about how Flowey is starting to become aware that there's a third party, a player controlling Clover, who has memorized the path and the solutions to puzzles, not Clover remembering RESETs. After all, Flowey looks directly at the player at the end of the fight, notes that Clover's improvement is unusual because they weren't like this on their previous runs where they didn't fall through the broken switch hole, and there's a FUN Value where Flowey talks about how he's aware of another presence in his mind when it should just be him and Clover in there. So, no. Clover likely does not remember RESETs.

Is Alphys better than/worse than/equal to Chujin in terms of morality for their SOUL Experiments?:

Oh boy, can of worms time. I am gonna admit right off the bat here that I don't hate Alphys/see her as poorly as the fandom seems to. Is she a liar because she claimed to make a robot with a SOUL when it was actually a ghost possessing a robot? Yes. Is she a coward and an ass because she refused to contact the families about what happened with their revived family members/kept the Amalgamates locked up in her basement? Yes. Did she use Frisk and Mettaton to give herself an ego boost by making Frisk think that they were in mortal peril so she can play the hero to them? Yes. But I still see her as a better person than Chujin (I'll admit that a part of this is because Alphys had the chance to grow and admit her mistakes and move past them while Chujin is... too dead to do that).

So, biases. I'll try to be objective but those are likely gonna be in this next section. Also headcanons. Because, again, we just don't know the specifics of everything that happened with these experiments.

Alphys was tasked by Asgore to find a way to break the barrier with the X number of human SOULs they had (if we're going full canon purist, it likely would have been all 6 fallen humans because UTY isn't canon). She assumed that this could be done by injecting monster SOULs with Determination extracted from human SOULs to make them persist after death and then working with these persistent monster SOULs. Monsters gave up their Fallen Down friends and family members for the job, and since being Fallen Down is basically a step away from death, it's basically like working with dead bodies for monsters (I don't think it was ever made clear if the Fallen Down can still feel things/have some awareness in that state. The best comparison I can come up with is comatose people). So, Alphys got permission from the friends of the monsters she worked with, which is the closest she'll get to patient consent, no consent from the human SOULs, and was working under Asgore's orders.

Chujin, meanwhile, sicced Axis on Integrity, who ended up accidentally killing them in a very gruesome manner (Axis was supposed to apprehend the human, not blast their head off). Chujin was shocked by this because this outcome wasn't his intention, but decided to take advantage of the situation. He kept the SOUL, hiding it from everyone, then comes up with the plan to engineer his Boss Monster Serum using the strengths of a human SOUL and a willing Boss Monster: himself. While he consented to experimenting on himself, his family wasn't aware of it until Chujin clued his wife (and Kanako) into it and at that point he'd already destroyed him health and was on track to leave his wife a widow and his daughter fatherless. So Chujin was working under his own unchecked ambitions, had no consent from Integrity, and while he may have consented to the experiment, the people around him that he affected didn't get a choice. They didn't even know about it at all.

Alphys was working with Determination, a quality of human SOULs. She extracted it from the SOULs using the DT extraction machine. How many times she did this, how long the procedure lasted, how the procedure is performed, is entirely unknown. I've always seen the procedure as being similar to a blood draw, but whether or not extracting DT was painful is up in the air.

Chujin was working with SOUL extract, an... extraction from the SOUL. We don't know how he extracted it from Integrity's SOUL/if he had any specialized equipment on hand, but he does have a syringe which... paints a pretty striking image. Also, unlike DT which is a quality of the SOUL, SOUL Extract is part of the SOUL. It is a piece of the SOUL that has likely been altered in some way to prepare it so it can be injected into Chujin, then once the fusion was completed, likely extracted from the fused monster/human SOUL and refined into the serum. Whether or not being extracted from hurts is unknown, but uh... to go back to my previous metaphor, if DT extraction is like a blood draw then SOUL extraction is like removing a limb in my mind.

Alphys wanted to help Asgore break the barrier. This would've led to a second Monster and Human War (since Asgore doesn't declare peace until post-Pacifist), but it would've also freed monsters which have been trapped Underground long enough that there's an overpopulation problem/it's been generations since monsters have seen the Surface.

Chujin felt that Asgore would not be able to handle a war on humanity on his own even with god-like powers, so his serum would make basic monsters into Boss Monsters, which are much stronger. Like engineering super soldiers.

Neither party seems to know that human SOULs are alive outside the body.

I don't know which person is more moral when seeing things from the human's perspective. In both cases, the humans SOULs didn't get a choice in being used. We don't know if extracting DT/SOUL extract hurts. Maybe the comparison I used is wrong, maybe extracting DT/SOUL Extract are equally painful to each other, or getting DT out hurts more than just Extract, or maybe it doesn't hurt at all. Even if it doesn't hurt, that doesn't stop it from being wrong from an ethical standpoint (you can't use body parts from a person without consent, even if that person is dead. DT extraction and SOUL extraction should fall under this umbrella as well). They both did bad things to the human in the situation, even if they're unaware of it, so I can see the humans resenting both of them for what they've done to their SOULs. Both of them were trying to make things better for monsterkind as well. But things turned out much better for surrounding monsters in Alphys's situation than they did in Chujin's.

#[rusty door hinge noises]#(just a quick note: my memory isn't as fresh on UT characters as it is on UTY characters so if I'm egregiously wrong about something #then i apologize)#i feel like Chujin is still worse even if his project worked bc he was so secretive and was still risking his health.#even if a.lphys failed and everyone she worked on died the monster families weren't expecting the fallen down to live when they donated #them to her.#i sympathize with a.lphys more either way

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colorfuldream · 1 year ago

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Since we've calmed down after the last Splatfest, I can finally bitch about some Shiver fans' takes.

My God she did NOT try to "change the subject and try to make Frye comfortable".

Shiver SUCKS. She's greedy, she brags when she wins, she'll say anything she has to to get vote. That's WHY SHE'S FUN! Every member of Deep Cut Kinda Sucks. That is the point!

Big Man does get a little carried away and sometimes gets worked up (though he's still being nice) during the fests announcements. Frye barely even tries to make an argument (her job!) because she's too busy being silly.

None of them give a damn about the results. They're here to party and have fun. Sure, they like to win but they don't care if they lose. Almost every single time, the winner says something along the lines of "all three options are nice though" or "let's do all three!"

Shiver did exactly what she did for the Nessie vs Aliens vs Bigfoot festival: lie her ass off. This time, instead of lying about seeing Nessie, she pretended that her choice was better because she legit doesn't know how to do a fist bump. It's silly! It's endearing! She's a loser! Girlfailure! She doesn't care if it's embarrassing, she came clean because it's no big deal and she won! She won eight fucking times in a row, she gets to brag if she pleases.

It's fine for your fav to not be perfect. You don't need to go out of your way to mischaracterize an entire dialogue because you need to defend her from the "haters". And quite frankly, wouldn't it be worse if she was babying the other members (or singling Frye out) because they didn't win for months? Don't you think it would be condescending? Her lines were implied to be prewritten. None of them have a problem with what they have to say. They might even write them themselves for all we know!

Deep Cut are all good friends. That's why they don't give a single flying into space fuck about who wins, the things said to win, or the things said after they won.

And, finally, ofc it also goes for Frye and Big Man fans. Neither care if they lose. Frye doesn't even try (ie: she had less than 10% of the bite for Team Fame and had no reaction, especially when she could have made great arguments for it since it logically beat the other two teams (sorry for breaking Splatfest law guys, it needed to be said)), Big Man is just happy to be there (though he probably really wanted Love to win... But alas capitalism triumphs all). I'd LOVE it if Nintendo finally wrote them some spicy dialogue instead of the bland and boring "eh gg" we've been getting for over a year. I'd LOVE the acknowledgement that Frye is incredibly unpopular and has gotten brutal loses. They did it in Splat1 and 2. I want my girl to go on a rampage or for Big Man to impose himself. But it's not that big of a deal. We ain't getting angst. Deep Cut is too busy sharing their one braincell to decide what meal they're gonna have to care.

It's not that deep. It doesn't matter in the end. What fucking matter iS TO STOP KILLING YOUR TEAMMATES DURING TRICOLOR WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SHOOTING AT ME WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER—

#text #ondina's text posts!#big man splatoon #shiver splatoon #frye splatoon #splatoon 3 #splatoon #shiver hohojiro #frye onaga #big man #i know it's like twitter discourse but it's so annoying #they're silly singing squids just chill #let frye wear something sexy tho like i've seen someone comment that they didn't know she had hips and it took me out #she may be silly but she can be silly and slaying! let shiver wear something silly while frye is for the thristy hoes for once #so sad that shiver isn't also a silly jester for frostyfest... but she got an almost new model/outfit so good for her #free frye from her baggy pants for once her outfits are low-key similar #but we aren't talking enough about big man... so cute. so silly. he's sparkly. a litte star. the glitter is so satisfying #anyway bye I'll bitch once the theme is announced or we get more Shiver discourse #i don't even care that much; what i care about is the shitty big run stages we've been getting; the boss that wasn't adapted for it debuting #debuting there and somehow getting the worst weapons on top of ut #*it. at least the rewards system is better but i wish i could actually play. because yeah the connection was terrible. the server was #macfucking dying. it also sucks that my teammates were bad #use your specials!!! throw the eggs to the basket or in its direction! i am begging you!! i was there waiting because my weapon sucked!#i played for two days and barely got bronze #i hope we can get the rewards later because i wanted it so much

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