#Armand be like: I love Marius. He is kind and good to me

[nightcolorz]

Throw back to when I was reading The Vampire Armand, read this paragraph, which is 13-14 yr old newly Amadeo-Armand describing Marius:

And thought that it came off as super vague and ominous, like one of those poor quality creepy-pasta few sentence horror stories you find edited against a spooky stock photo background on Instagram. So I did just that, lmao:

[wretcheddoll]

So this might be a hot take, probably not to any fellow Marius/Armand shippers but for people who dislike them I know this scene is quite controversial...

But, I love the bath scene and yes I do think in the context of the story that was a "good" thing for Marius to do.

"But Armand was a sexually traumatized minor with amnesia and the first thing Marius thought to do was to have sex with him?!"

-Yes, something that would be an extremely bad and a morally corrupt thing to do in real life can be a good thing within the context of the story you are reading.

"But Armand didn't want it! He was practically mute; he couldn't say no!"

-But he did want it, he literally thinks in his mind that he wants it before Marius does it, and Marius can literally read his mind.

Any hesitation Armand has is more to do with religious shame then not wanting it, which feels like a classic erotic scene, shame giving way to pleasure when your older more experienced partner guides you through it. And yes, a real minor cannot consent to a 1,500 year old vampire but again he’s not real and the key is to pay attention to the actual sentiments Armand is expressing in this scene, that of repressed desire and pleasure. He's filled with "warm thrilling sensations" he doesn't claim to feel bad in any way.

I also want to disagree with this notion that Armand instantly clings to any "abuser" that shows him an inch of kindness. Armand did not cling to his slavers, not the man who was "nice" to him and didn't make him do sexual things and stopped him from being beaten.

On the contrary, Armand is endlessly defiant towards his abusers and only surrenders in Marius's arms because he feels safe and loved with him, partially because he sees Marius as some sort of ethereal being and not a normal man. And also, because he finds Marius attractive of course😏.

The boys in the brothel being “soft” with him, he’s not into it at all.

The old man who never touched him, and showed him “kindness,” Armand saying he didn’t love him.

Armand finding Marius hot lol

Armand feeling like an active participant in his sexual experience with Marius, “We began the kisses again,” not Marius did this to me.

I know a lot of people say that Armand is an unreliable narrator in this scene, which I find silly because even if he is, this is still his emotional truth about this experience, and he doesn't feel bad or exploited or like he was raped by Marius 500 years later. I think you're supposed to take the "victim's" feelings about an event into account, no?

But for the sake of argument let's look at Marius's perspective of this scene from Blood & Gold.

So Marius is pretty lost in the daddy sauce from the moment he scoops Amadeo up, his caregiver instincts take hold lol

He's truly in his element.

Marius confirms that Amadeo is quite accepting and willing with his intimacy unlike how he was with his abusers.

I see this quote thrown around a lot without context, but all you need to do is keep reading and, oh wait that's not so sinister... He literally stops wanting to die because of Marius's kisses.

I also see this line used a lot to show how "bad" this scene is.

But again, I'd argue based on everything we're shown in TVA this has more to do with religious trauma/shock then being traumatized by what Marius is doing. We know Armand does not reflect on this experience in a negative way and remembers it being pleasurable.

The immediate after math of the bath.

"He was breathing as though he were safe." and "Yet in his mute expression now I saw pure trust." And Amadeo immediately calling him "Master." To me this shows that the bath was in fact a healing experience for Amadeo, he feels incredibly safe in Marius's bed, he's not having nightmares, and he's looking to Marius as his Master already without being told or influenced to think that way. And well, yes this doesn't heal his religious trauma or bring back his memories, (I don't think even the greatest head in the world could do that) it does relax him in the moment and make him feel good, which is exactly what Marius wanted to do. I certainly don't think there's evidence to support that it traumatized him or was a negative experience for him in any way.

All this to say, I don't think you're wrong if this scene makes you uncomfortable or grosses you out. I think it's perfectly valid to have big problems with the way AR wrote about teen sexuality and age gap relationships, but what I'm sick of is people acting like I'm stupid or a pervert for not "getting it" and finding this scene appealing. I get that a situation like this involving a real minor and a real adult would be inherently traumatizing for that minor, but Marius and Amadeo are not real, Marius is an ancient vampire without a human sexuality, not an adult man using Amadeo for his own pleasure.

Just because I find their relationship kinky and appealing does not mean I lack media literacy, but if you think Armand's story is supposed to be about his trauma from being "sexually abused" by Marius, I am going to question if you are actually reading the text as it is written, or if you are projecting your own feelings of discomfort onto Armand's character and their relationship as a whole. For me the crossing of taboos is a feature of Rice's vampire relationships not a bug, I like the father/son/lover dynamic that they have.

[lotstradamus]

i'm loving all your vampire posting lottie! if you're ever so compelled i'd love to hear what you make of the books vs the show and if there are any book things you'd especially like to see done on the show! (also, bookwise, are you a lestat girl or an armand girl or a louis/marius/david/akasha/claudia girl or or or)

as someone who tried to read Interview with the Vampire thrice (THRICE!!!) pre-AMC show revival and simply could not get through it (it is melancholy), I cannot BELIEVE how down bad I am for these books right now. I keep seeing bad reviews on goodreads and girding my loins for each new book expecting the quality to nosedive, but 1 star bitch WHERE? WHERE??? I AM HAVING THE TIME OF MY GODDAMN LIFE

in terms of books vs show, honestly after a point the books are kind of Unadaptable unless they radically change the main cast, vibe and format of the show every single season, and the changes they made to IWTV were good to the point of sending me fucking insane so they can just keep on doing whatever their little hearts desire with the source material imo!!! howmever I DO have some suggestions for the upcoming seasons:

Lestat crying twice an ep (non-negotiable)

I would kind of love it if Lestat is the only character who tells the truth. the most reliablest narrator and normal girl to ever live. and yet every time he says something like "I killed a pack of wolves single-handedly" or "I woke Those Who Must Be Kept by playing violin" or "I snog my mother with tongue" Daniel is just sitting there like "............riiiight."

Gabrielle. Gabrielle Gabrielle Gabrielle. mainly I would like to smash cut to Gabrielle in the middle of really intense Lestat/everyone else scenes and she's just like peacefully sleeping in the ground... strolling through a distant jungle... sitting on a mountain looking at the stars in silence...

EXCEPT that one scene where she pulls up to Lestat's concert like she's in 2 Fast 2 Furious

it'll be interesting to see how they adapt Queen of the Damned because so little of it is actually from Lestat's pov, and all of it is amazing and cannot be cut out: [Stefon voice] the Twins, Jesse, specifically Jesse being haunted in Louis and Lestat's old New Orleans house, everyone hanging out/playing out terrible interpersonal dramas at the Sonoma compound, NIGHT ISLAND...!

I cannot stress this enough: GHOST CLAUDIA.

I want them to do Body Thief. fuck it, why not. must haves are Mojo, a random hunk with a PhD in Sam Reid's mannerisms playing Lestat for 6/8 episodes, Lestat nearly dying 25 times cos he pilots his human body like a drunk muppet, and, most importantly, Lestat BEGGING David Talbot for some old man pussy

oh and an entire episode set on a cruise ship

my favourite scene from the whole of Body Thief was Lestat turning David at the end against his will cos it was genuinely quite awful and frightening but also. um. you know. awooga

if they include Gretchen, then I would like the opposite of my Gabrielle request for everything post-Body Thief: whenever there's a peaceful, quiet scene it smash cuts to the wilds of South America where Gretchen is absolutely stark raving mad on the floor of a chapel with stigmata

I can't even begin to think about how they'd adapt Memnoch, but regardless I want them to keep the scene where Lestat drinks someone's period blood. thanks

also his cunty little lilac-tinted sunglasses that he will not fucking stop talking about

and finally, human Armand getting drunk and falling into the Grand Canal

bookwise, I am a Lestat girl the house down boots... I love his over-dramatic idiot crybaby ass!!!!! although the final page of Memnoch the Devil made me burst into tears and cry my whole face off until I confirmed that Lestat comes back as the narrator in future books soooo maybe like calls to like. self recognition through the other, etc. I do also get a shot of pure joy every time Armand shows up, especially in Lestat's pov. 'ah, there he was, the Botticelli angel, so beautiful. I fucking hated him. we kissed.' sis THEE dopamine.

currently suffering because I want to a) stop reading the series immediately so I can go back and reread The Vampire Lestat, and yet also b) never ever stop reading the series for love nor money. please help me budget this my family is dying

[monstersinthecosmos]

Marius considers Armand the main mistake of his life

Do you think he would turn him into a vampire again if he could go back in time?

!!!!!!!!!! the easy answer to this is yes of course because he's a person trapped in a cycle who makes the same mistakes over and over 😂

but! the deeper answer here is that I don't agree that Marius considers Armand a mistake!!!!!!!!!

I think he regrets the way Armand was turned and regrets that he didn't take care of Santino when he had the chance. I think he spent 500 years feeling like he failed Armand, and so the content of the actual mistake is not Armand himself, but the circumstances around him and wishing things had been different in Venice.

This is the part in TVL where Marius says he fucked up with Armand -

"Whatever will happen will happen, but choose your companions with care. Choose them because you like to look at them and you like the sound of their voices, and they have profound secrets in them that you wish to know. In other words, choose them because you love them. Otherwise you will not be able to bear their company for very long. "

"I understand, " I said. "Make them in love. "

"Exactly, make them in love. And make certain they have had some lifetime before you make them; and never never make one as young as Armand. That is the worst crime I have ever committed against my own kind, the taking of the young boy child Armand. "

"But you didn't know the Children of Darkness would come when they did, and separate him from you. "

"No. But still, I should have waited. It was loneliness that drove me to it. And Armand's helplessness, that his mortal life was so completely in my hands. Remember, beware of that power, and the power you have over those who are dying. Loneliness in us, and that sense of power, can be as strong as the thirst for blood. “

So like obviously AR retconned Armand's backstory a bit over time, like this version of events doesn't say Marius did it because Armand got stabbed and was dying lol, but I think there's still a throughline between this and TVA and B&G about how Marius was trying to wait, and in waiting kept changing his mind until his hand was forced.

And don't forget that during the Venice era he was also painfully in love with both Botticelli and Bianca, and he used Armand as a rebound from them. He was going off of Eudoxia's advice to pick someone he could groom for vampirism, and he picked a traumatized teenager who could be a blank slate.

He changed his mind almost immediately though! He loved Armand! He knew he couldn't do this to him, but also began to realize he'd sort of ruined Armand for regular life anyway, and it was inevitable!

So I think like, in any version of events, or if he had the chance to do things differently, the common denominator of crushing loneliness would push him to it anyway, and he loved Armand anyway. He wanted to keep Armand. I just wonder if he'd try to prepare him better and let him live longer, and take care of the coven so that they wouldn't ruin Armand's life.

And the thing about time loops & time travel that we see in storytelling all the time is that things are sometimes inevitable. Like, Marius can go back in time and try to keep Armand from dating Harlech, but he can't do anything about it during the day, and Armand is going to do it anyway. Armand isn't going to listen!

And when I think about what parts of Armand's personality are innate and what's The Trauma it's like, we talk all the time about how they're immortal and have all the time in the world to heal, so who's to say that Armand won't be okay one day! And would the Marius of 2112 risk a change like this if Armand is happy and okay and their relationship is good?

Because even if he waited and turned Armand a little older and they had more time together, and eventually get to a good place, is it worth the risk to lose the GOOD things they've built together, or that have happened because of Armand? Like without Armand, would Marius have Daniel? Would he even have Lestat? Would he have ever been freed from TWMBK?

There's a fluffy version of time travel where you go back and fix something and everything is okay LOL so we ultimately come back to the classic topic of Marius loving selfishly vs selflessly--would he ever decide his loneliness is worth the 300 years of pain that Armand went through? Or are we dealing with the type of time travel that says some things are inevitable, and the lesson of the story is that you can't change it without losing something?

And how would ARMAND even feel about it? Armand takes his immortality like a champ and while he has big cosmic feelings about it sometimes, he doesn't complain. He feels love. He still fears death like everyone else. Is this a risk he'd even consent to? Would he turn in his own damnation for death? Is his death, and the gift of being freed from a curse worth missing out on his love of Lestat and Louis and Daniel and Benji & Sybelle?

THERE'S JUST SO MANY WAYS IT COULD GO WRONG LIKE IS IT EVEN WORTH IT IDK

JUST THE BRIEFEST OVERVIEW WITH A FEW SIMPLE OPTIONS, THIS HAS INFINITE SPACE TO GROW TBH

I love time travel as a topic LMAO I keep daydreaming about ways to write time travel VC fic!!!!! I love it for Sheith fandom but it's easier to incorporate because it's sci-fi. But I think as a storytelling vehicle it always tries to tell us to stick with the devil we know. I think I'm getting carried away with my nerd topic and straying from your question LMAO but this is how I'm pondering.

I'd also ask if SANTINO would do things differently. If he'd leave Armand alone!!!!!!!!! And I'll stop here because, like I said, the space on the chart is infinite and you could talk all day because what if Santino hadn't acted like a cunt, what if Marius didn't feel that TWMBK were threatened by cults, what if there had been even the slightest peace in the vampire community where Marius didn't have to feel like the sole keeper, how different would his life have been, would he have even still needed Armand, etc etc etc etc

So yeah I think he'd do it again. :)

And I mean.

He turned Benji.

Soooooooooooooo idk if he learned a lesson about turning children. SHRUG.

[shelfperson]

i don’t have the energy to make the web weave right now but i have been READING the ntn poem and i have been WATCHING iwtv and uhmmmm.

and louis as the good son, the breadwinner, the motherfather, the voice of flawed and broken comfort. him, stepping in to care for paul, for claudia, for daniel, but it never seems to be enough. he can never save them. never love them right. meaningless words, meaningless. the knife in the breastbone, the hand on the throat, the teeth in the neck.

and the sunlight is never hopeful for louis. there is never a morning to save him from the endless dark he’s living in. he loved his brother more than anything in the world and he died on his last sunrise. claudia was his light, his redemption, and the fire took her. and then he walked out into the sun.

and the cycle is endless…. how many families built from the flawed blueprint of the first? a wife in the mold of your mother. marius that begat aemand. magnus who begat leatat, lestat who begat louis, and on and on and on. florence louis paul grace. louis claudia lestat. louis armand daniel. the roles remixing each time, each time the children staring despondent at the dead face of the parent. that ghoulish empty apartment, an empty vessel eager to filled with its inhabitants’ confession. this interview as the culmination of the first confession, i am weak i want to die help me.

that morning sun over paul’s cracked skull at the birth of louis’ awakening, and louis on the bench waiting for the sun to bleach his bones and purify the putrid soul, and claudia taken by the gleaming noonday light. can you hear that? she’s calling me. and it is purifying. each time, human attachment eaten by the march of time, every sunrise and sunset. first a family and a job and human kind, in all it’s ugliness and joy. then a family. then and daughter and a lover. then, nothing. each time reborn, like a phoenix from ashes, with less and less. nothing but the recollection.

the interview as a suicide note. as the settling of affairs. as the will and testament. a testament to companionship, each and every companionship, each the mirror of the other. the last meeting between two dying old friends. the last love song between star crossed lovers. the last argument in a burnt out marriage. the last apology to a worn out daughter. the last i love you to a sick brother. the interview as the final night in the long dark night of louis de pointe du lac’s tortured soul.

the interview as another morning. another chapter. another try. trying to be good, to be honest, to be loving. hard love and soft love, trying to make it out holding onto something, the real something. the self, though shifting and broken. the self, alone but not lonely. the self, though reviled and worthy of death. i am weak. i wanna die. help me. louis couldn’t burn lestat. as long as you live i’ll never taste the fire. i lost time and then it was morning. i already know what my life will be like but i don’t want to rest. these words will lift you up and be your lifeline. funny thing is, when he said that to me he was already all burnt up.

anyway yeah i think my faggot vampire show and my dyke wizard book have a lot to talk about.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hi, I hope you're having a good day :)

I have a question about Armand.

We know that he's using people to get out of the situationships he no longer wants to be in (like he, presumably, used Lestat to get out of the coven, Louis - to get out of the theater etc). What I don't understand is why. Why do it this way? Why can't he do all these things on his own? Is it because of his history prior to all these events (admittedly I don't know his story very well because I haven't read TVA yet)?

Hey dear!

Well, Armand was abducted at an early age, and then made to submit. He never really got to decide what happened after that. Even after being sent to Paris to lead the coven he was bound to the laws that were pushed upon him (and he had someone who came there with him, Allessandra, though I am not sure if we will see her in the show).

I think... he is afraid. Deep, deep down, I mean. He fears abandonment and the withdrawal of love so much he cannot bring the change he wants to see himself.

Only when another opportunity presents itself - Lestat, Louis, Daniel - then he invites that change and refocuses onto them.

Armand is no pushover. There is a legendary scene where he goes at Marius' door with a battle ax - and which then leads to Marius whipping him - and worshiping him (with "happy ending"):

"Master, I don't know what you're saying to me. I was never a saint, never, I don't claim to be a saint. I'm a wretched disrespectful and ungrateful being. Oh, I adore you. It's so delicious to be helpless and at your mercy."

I always felt this... exclamation in that scene encapsulates a lot of Armand, right there. Obviously not all of him. But...

He kind of willingly folds for those who show him love, and who he loves, in an effort to keep them. Which is not to say he cannot be a sly brat about it, because he very much can.

But he waits until there is another possibility for love at least before he risks what he has - and that is very much rooted in what he has experienced, yes. (And it is, ultimately, heartbreaking.)

[nightcolorz]

There is something clearly unhealthy and immature about Marius inserting himself into Armand's every meaningful relationship with anyone else.

Yes, he helped Daniel in a crisis situation, but it seems like it could have done without the romantic subtext, right?

Then he became the maker of Benji and Sybelle. And this is the strongest connection, although he had nothing to do with these people 💀

It’s like he’s tying Armand to himself, isn’t it? He takes all his close people. Marius is literally everywhere.

While Armand himself is obviously trying to learn to live independently, without Marius and his influence.

Armand remains trapped in his power. He is afraid of loneliness, and all the people closest to him are attached to Marius for various reasons.

This thought makes me despair. Armand is still dependent on Marius. And, apparently, he's always will be.

Justice for Armand in a show, where Daniel will be on his side, without a sense of duty to Marius for taking care 🤞🏻

AGREED ITS SO FUCKED!!

It feels so insidious, like it comes off like Marius is intentionally sinking his teeth into Armand’s loved ones so that he will be inescapably a part of his life. It reminds me of how abusers r often family members the victims r regularly forced to interact with, but instead of this being inherent to the dynamic Marius is putting himself in those roles to be closer to Armand. I’m not sure that he’s doing that specifically with that goal, but I feel like it has to be at least subconscious.

I always think about how with Benji and sybelle, it seems like his only motivation is to insert himself into Armand’s life in a way that deprives him of agency or authority. He’s literally taking away his children by *making himself the father* and he’s taking away Armand’s agency to make choices for them by making the choice for him and then patiently explains to him like he’s a dumb child that marius just knows better and this was for their own good.

He basically does the same with Daniel, he takes in Daniel when he’s vulnerable and then isolates him from Armand so that Armand doesn’t get to be a part of his life anymore. It’s very parent of a teen mom deciding to raise the kids cuz the mom is too immature, but instead of a teen mom it’s a grown adult who continues to be treated by the parent like he’s too immature to have any relationship that isn’t being directed and controlled by Marius.

back to Benji and sybelle, smth that’s rlly upsetting to me about that plot line is how Marius begins initiating that dynamic by patiently inviting Armand to his house to reconnect with seemingly no strings or pressure attached, and Armand is very hesitant to open himself up to marius for understandable reasons so he is very distant and none responsive to this offer. And so since Armand isn’t budging, marius offers to help him out by looking after his kids, and Armand agrees to that and it’s kind of an olive branch where Armand is allowing himself to trust Marius by allowing him to be alone with his loved ones. And Marius takes that opportunity and decides to inescapably tie Armand to him by inserting himself into his family dynamic and ruining everything Armand has built by making it his own 😭😭 it’s so fucked, and it seems like such a direct reaction to Armand being distant and hesitant to open up to him

I think Marius does all this partly cuz he’s scared to loose Armand, and partly bcus he sees Armand as his biggest mistake who should have never existed, and in that feels responsible for controlling his life/“taking care of him” so that he doesn’t “cause any harm” that Marius would be responsible for. It’s also definitely an insecurity thing. I think Marius is insecure seeing that Armand is fine without him while Marius (guy who should be the “strong one” in the relationship) can’t stop thinking about him, so he tries to take control of Armand and revert back to their old dynamics so that he can validate his own power + validate his belief that Armand needs him

[saintarmand]

What was your interpretation of Armand calling Louis "maitre"? I saw your tags on the post about Louis calling him Arun and that Armand called him "maitre" bc Louis in that moment taught him to choose for himself, and I was wondering.

I, personally, immediately thought of that one post that talked about how Armand tries to love Louis like a worshiper loves a god, how Armand tries to create this dynamic and becomes resentful when it doesn't really work. Like this scene really felt like a reflection of that. Of Armand defaulting to and manipulating the relationship into a dynamic he thinks will keep Louis around or make Louis love him/a dynamic that Armand thinks love looks like. And calling Louis "maitre" was just a part of Armand trying to create that dynamic. Anyway, tdlr, I would love to hear what your interpretation was.

i'm still rotating all this in my head so i might have completely different ideas tomorrow but here's my current thoughts!

louis says: "and then you can decide if you want it back." "i want you." armand claims he already knows what he wants. but he told louis earlier how he's had these different names and isn't even sure his birth name actually is arun. that he doesn't know who he is. "you sure about that, arun?" how can you know what you want if you don't even know who you are? but armand is sure. in 2x02, he says maitre is a "coven endearment". he may not be ready to leave his old coven quite yet, but armand wants to start a coven of two with louis, and to confirm that, calls him by a term of coven endearment.

louis in that scene talking about being good at running things, is basically positioning himself as an equal to armand in terms of having management experience, and then goes on to give him advice as a peer. so i took armand calling him "maitre" as kind of acknowledging that; they're both masters in this new coven of two. they can take turns being in control, creating a shifting dynamic new to them both.

"intermingling, innovating, collapsing two art forms into one, coming up with new ones!"

BUT ALSO it reminded me of some book quotes. under the cut for length and marius cw

in iwtv 1976 armand has a human boy he keeps:

The boy filled his glass and held it up now in a salute. ‘My master,’ he said, his eyes flashing on me as he smiled; but the toast was to Armand. “ ‘Your slave,’ Armand whispered with a deep intake of breath that was passionate.

armand calling himself the boy's slave is obviously not true at all. armand has all the power here, they're just playing pretend.

and then in the vampire armand we get some background on this little game he plays.

the first time marius drinks armand's blood:

“I hurt you!” he said. “No, no, not at all, sweet Master,” I answered. “But I hurt you! I have you, now!” “Amadeo, you play the devil.” “Don’t you want me to, Master? Didn’t you like it? You took my blood and it made you my slave!” He laughed. “So that’s the twist you put on it, isn’t it?” “Hmmm. Love me. What does it matter?” I asked. “Never tell the others,” he said. There was no fear or weakness or shame in it. I turned over and drew up on my elbows and looked at him, at his quiet profile turned away from me. “What would they do?” “Nothing,” he answered. “It’s what they would think and feel that matters. And I have no time or place for it.” He looked at me. “Be merciful and wise, Amadeo.” For a long time I said nothing. I merely looked at him. Only gradually did I realize I was frightened. For one moment it seemed that fear would obliterate the warmth of the moment, the soft glory of the radiant light swelling in the curtains, of the polished planes of his ivory face, the sweetness of his smile. Then some higher graver concern overruled the fear. “You’re not my slave at all, are you?” I whispered. “Yes,” he said, almost laughing again. “I am, if you must know.”

for a moment, armand thinks he has something over marius now, that their relationship has turned around on its head. marius very clearly thinks this is ridiculous, but he indulges in this idea that his thirst for armand's blood gives armand power over him equal to the power he has over armand. marius knows this isn't true, and armand knows it deep down too. he has more power than other humans, sure, but only as much as marius is willing to give him. this equilibrium is nothing more than a comforting illusion.

louis and armand's power differential isn't as big as the one between marius and armand was of course; they're both adults, both already vampires, and neither legally owns the other. but armand is still much more powerful than louis and they both know it. armand wanting louis more than anything in the world gives louis a little bit of power over him. but only as much as armand allows him to have.

"yes maitre", he says. but they're just playing pretend, creating a comforting illusion of equilibrium.

[rosesocietyy]

@dictee's bonus question; I don't have the range to tackle it in full cause I haven't read the vampire armand but I do want to zero in on how attitudes of victim blaming can be internalized; one aspect of it at least, guided by what's been shown in the series, and extend it to Louis too.

I believe that's inevitable when a relationship is connoted by religiosity.

or at least the specific brand I'm deeply deeply familiar with. The type that is built on the foundation of the unquestionable. What should be (way of life, how to move through the world they've brought them into) is determined by the all-knowing creator and there's an expectation that the creations should follow for their own good or reap the consequences of defiance.

I love deliberate use of language when describing the maker-fledgling relationship. Divinity is obviously ascribed to the maker, and the fledgling is ensnared in almost helpless reverence and servitude.

"But there was present, a kind of worship on my part"

"I served him with all my heart. Basked in his mercy, his worshipful mercy."

Given the life they endured prior to encountering their makers it's easy to see why Louis and Armand are vulnerable to the entrapments of devoutness.

Being the only beings at the gate to usher Louis and Armand into this new reality, the makers are given the opportunity to conceptualize vampirism. Define what should be

These are the coven rules and they must be followed

This is how you're meant to hunt

This is how you're meant to feel about and behave toward humanity

In turn, that gets internalized

I was sent to lead the Paris coven and I did so by rigidly upholding the laws

I'm a fumbling, botched, vampire for not feeding the way he expects me to

Maybe this cruelty to humanity and our kind is the nature of our species and we'll eventually end up like him in time

Well it's the vampire bond you see, there's just no human equivalent so you wouldn't understand, it's the way of things

That's really the crux of the danger. They love these beings who they perceive to be all-knowing, whose authority they have to defer and cede to (manifested differently of course). The love they receive in return is encompassing and ardous, and harrowing as it is, it's understandable why they may think it's supposed to be. The creator's hand is a guiding hand, and if that guide has to be through force then so be it. When I'm straying and being rebellious and difficult, he's just acting accordingly and in his nature to make sure his beloved is keeping in line. After all if they spare the rod, the child gets rotten.

Louis doesn't see himself as a victim. It's not entirely clear yet but I don't think armand sees himself as one either, at least not in that context. And maybe they never will, but they recognize that pain distinctly and carry it heavily with them. The identity issues, the complicated struggle with power, the voice and image of lestat that can never seem to completely fade, the works of marius hung on the walls of their home. In a way I guess they'll always feel like they've failed their gods, religious trauma 101

[loustat-0]

Not sure why we need to perpetuate this lie that people think loumand is healthy. Been in this fandom for two years and I’ve never seen anyone say it even once. Maybe that’s how they’re living on Twitter but not here.

1. None of the ships are quite healthy in TVC . Not from what I've read so far . But maybe people mistake Loumand being more understanding and more calm to be less toxic ? That's not how it is to me . Because Armand had so many benefits that Lestat didn't have with Louis . Armand had nothing to hide from Louis , Armand wasn't threatened by Marius to be destroyed if he said anything about their kind and their origins , Marius literally told Lestat to go live like a human and gave him sets of rules and told him if he breaks them he would definitely find him and kill his fledglings and himself . And more importantly ARMAND COULD READ LOUIS'S MIND . Of course he knew what Louis wanted to give it to him . Of course there was no dark gift between them so that Louis hates him too of course Louis believed Armand wasn't withholding anything until Madeline of course . And then Claudia and the fact that he never told Louis he imprisoned Lestat to get him to confess against Claudia . But again Armand wanted to save Louis and separate Lestat from him and he would do anything to make that happen .

2. Armand seems less toxic because he doesn't have those limits that Lestat had . Why do you think Armand was so opposite of turning Daniel ?? Because he knew once the dark gift is shared between them their love will disappear and it will make them resent each other or at least it will make Daniel resent him . And it actually did happen unfortunately , they fell apart after QOTD till prince Lestat . So the dark gift is such an important aspect that Armand and Louis are free of . And that's to their benefit . People say Armand was also a good listener to Louis yes I agree but Lestat became a good listener too if Louis's words weren't always triggering him . Louis always triggered him . It's also the same on the show , we saw Lestat talk a lot but he also listened too . Unless Louis was triggering him with something he hated to talk about which is also understandable .

3. Now I don't know how the show will handle Loumand but I hope they keep these factors in mind but even if they didn't we can't do much about it 😉

[casually-slips-into-coma]

spoilers for iwtv s2e4

my thoughts after a rewatch:

i know claudia hates the baby loves window play but she ate up that little song

the lulu role really is so humiliating :(

louis’ expressions whenever he watches these plays always kills me lmao he hates theater kids

louis and armand talking over each other to daniel

armands theater notes lol

claudia no eyebrow big eyeliner look is kinda cunty ngl

im a fan of sam the irish vampire

making claudia be lulu all the time oooh armand i hate u so bad

almost threw up watching louis and armand give different answers to the companion question IN FRONT OF THE COVEN that shit was so embarrassing

i wouldve kms if i was armand

vamp catfight

armand stuck in this situationship dont worry king we’ve all been there😔

literally telling each other i love you and still having the what are we conversation

“do you notice how hot the room gets when you two talk about the secret” plsssss

louis only able to use the fire gift when hes angry👀👀 gee i wonder if thats gonna come back👀👀👀👀👀

louis going🤨🤨 to the schizophrenia question like it came out of nowhere

armands face while louis talked about dreamstat why not just shoot me in the head

loving these dutch angles whenever daniel dissociates and gets an armand memory

santiago looks so good in the gold suit? robe thing??

claudia santiago friendship is killing me santiago i know what u are

claudia killing the guy singing baby lu

i like that you can tell claudias french has gotten better. nice small detail

i love scenes of louis and claudia just talking about non vampire things

santiago mimicking louis was pretty cool

buffoon sighting!!!

whole dinner scene bangs

the guy saying theres smth “fragile” about armand in the photo louis took and louis saying “no he’s anything but” and then the guy saying “you’ve captured the soul he hides” 🤌🤌

louis would never survive a 4 hour art school critique

daniel telling a girl he’d only do her if she had a paper bag over her head??????

claudeline truthers how are we feeling

context for the eating paper clip in the trailer

romeo!!

armand is so down bad its sick

madeline tailoring a yellow dress for claudia😟😟

the whole claudeline interaction was great

amadeo☹️🔫

MARIUS KILL YOURSELF!!!!!!!

the way armand talks about marius

MARIUS KILL YOURSELF x2!!!!!!

“no one has painted me in 400 years” fuck

madeline period blood moment. theres so much here about femininity and maturing might make a separate post about this scene

armand pinning claudia against a wall armand i hate you so bad

we already know that armand is powerful but seeing him choke and manhandle santiago really solidified that i think

picked another one over me!!

delainey is ACTINGGGGG

louis not believing claudia about armand ooooh louis i hate you so bad

love makes you stupid clock it

louis still referring to claudia as his daughter in his head (thru dreamstat)

louis just actively talking to himself girl do that in your head

park bench moment <3

“wanker” i giggled sorry

that suit is his favorite on him :(

“im a little wet” and armand instantly pulling out an umbrella, armand lighting his cigarette, armand calling him maitre

louis calling him arun and armand calling him maitre and then louis throwing away the lighter this fucking scene is cinematic art

the other coven members calling santiago maitre

i kinda like that daniel can hear them arguing from another room. i feel like its a very human experience? really domestic? even given the circumstances

armands eyes were never brown!!!

san francisco flashback episode might kill me im not kidding

insane way to end the episode

ok this was much longer than i thought it would be but this episode has a lot in it. each episode gets better and better and this is definitely my favorite of the season so far.

i am LOVING louis and armands relationship and also both of their story arcs and characterizations. their dynamic is kind of the opposite of what i, and i think a lot of other people, expected but it still makes total sense and im enjoying it a lot

god i love this show

[slapjacq]

there’s about to be a slew of thoughts coming from me for this very last episode probably over the next few days, but I’m gonna put them out as such.

For starters:

The funniest part about the ending of this episode was the fact that Louis’ response to everyone talking the most insane amount of shit was truly, in the most American response possible: aight bet pull up then pussy you won’t

A true man after my own heart

Like talk your shit Louis good for you man. I can’t lie wasn’t the smartest thing to do but at least he’s standing on business and I gotta respect that

Generally watching him just plow through the coven and let loose was actually incredible. Like yes girl you didn’t need to leave Paris, you needed to wrong all the mfs that wronged you. Sometimes you just need to open up a can of whoopass and by god did he do that. Santiago’s death was deeply satisfying. I’m happy my blue eyed pretty boy got to use the talents his mama gave him to really read a bitch to filth.

Watching him get back to his roots and rock that post divorce glow was everything, and as someone who has moved from a city to a much different place, the feeling of your city’s air is something that resonated with me so much. I saw someone’s post say something about that already, but I digress. His redecorating of his apartment in Dubai, his “bitch try my me I’m a new man” feel is truly incredible look on him, always and forever routing for Louis DPDL

On top of that Jacob’s work with Sam in the reunion scene is EVERYTHING

Speaking of Sam Reid:

“Siri pause” took me out. I think I was laughing on the floor for twenty minutes. 10/10 comedy gold. I adore Lestat in the modern world and can’t wait to see more of it.The scene in the shack moved me to tears. Lestat better be haunted by Claudia. It would almost be out of character for him not to be. Sam does such an incredible job really giving us Lestat’s guilt. The longing between them, the whole idea of actually seeing Lestat for the first time ever was genuinely wonderful.

Also his scenes in flashback to Paris post trial were also, and I mean dripping with Lestatian emotion.

A part that stuck out to me though, as satisfying as it was, even though I love my doe eyed gremlin, it almost sounded like Armand was regressing back into that scared little kid who was terrified of loosing everyone again, WHICH MIGHT BE A REASKN WHY he turned Daniel, but I’ll hop on my soapbox later about that. Anyways I’m not saying I feel total empathy for the fucker, but it was a little bit sad to hear what I would imagine how some of the conversations/negotiations went with Marius. Genuinely kind of sad but BABY GIRL YOU NEEDED THAT ASS WHOOPING. Like this is all of his fault and by god even though I’m loving every minute of watching his ass get handed to him, I do feel bad for him to an extent. New season wish for Armand: get a therapist, try being single for a decade or two. Like I can’t actually believe that this idiot deluded himself into thinking that the rebound/revenge relationship was gonna be eternal. Like bitch be for real. Idk. Hope my little puppy eyed freak gets his shit together.

DANIEL. MY MAN, MY DUDE. His questions, pulling Louis from the slowly whirring current of Armand’s manipulation was so fucking masterful and cheeky, like they really showed us first hand the reason as to why the man’s got two Pulitzer. And then his turning???? Like he really showed that twink how fucking fascinating he was within a month, ruined an 80 year marriage, and most likely fucked and was turned by the same dude he was out for blood for. No one is doing it like Daniel Molloy. I’m putting money down now that he looked through the paramours file off screen, and knew the advantage was his. I don’t think we’re gonna get a lot of information on that until season 3, but I’m putting it down now. Also shoutout Daniel, the new vampire, live your best life big dawg, do the crazy shit you’ve always wanted to do. The man almost had a post coital glow with the amount of swagger he carried compared to when he was a jaded human. Just generally, Eric fucking crushed it this season. This man is gonna have so much fun next season. Like idk what god or entity I have to bargain with to ensure Eric Bogosian actually lives forever because his characterization of Daniel is actually so spectacular.

This goes for everyone too by the way: EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, knocked it out of the fucking park this season. Genuinely spectacular. I am going to continue to dickride this show so fucking hard in the coming future because all of this effort and all this show-stopping work should not only be seen by just a decently sized community of little freaks but by everyone because every single person on the cast and crew deserve nothing but love and recognition for what they have done with the franchise so far.

Also shout out Sam, we love to see a bad bitch escape with his life.

Can’t wait to see what bullshit he’s got going in 2026

[devilsminion-armandaniel]

apologies if you've been asked this already, but im curious what your hopes are for dm in the show (in terms of happened in the past/will happen in the future/both/secret fourth option(?) and what you think is most likely to actually happen, if those arent the same thing

(it turned into a pretty long post when I had it all typed out, sorry.) I think my hopes are pretty much in line with what I expect the show to do. I definitely think we're getting Past Devil's Minion. it's been hinted at in promo too much for us not to see Luke again. Luke did a lot of promo to begin with for a one episode character, especially if we wouldn't see him again for the rest of the series. Compared to Madeline who was in more episodes. Now, you could argue Luke is better know, but I don't think Luke is anywhere near a household name. We have seen all three them of them talk about Young Daniel. Eric wants to see Luke do a scene with his ex wife/ex-wives, Assad wants a threesome scene where Daniel and Luke merge into each other. And Luke would like it if Alice was Armand. I think if Young Daniel was a closed chapter the actors would be discouraged from talking about it, as to not raise fandom expectations the show had zero plans on filling. Not to mention we had Vampire Sam at the big opening of the season 2 and we had Luke there as well. No other TdV actor was there, only the 'big' characters and actors. And where we haven't seen much of Vampire Sam yet, we will be seeing him again in S3. So, I think Luke being there and pairing him up with Assad for promo was a deliberate choice. There are some things in the show itself that also make me more sure that Young Daniel will return. We know old Daniel has a faulty memory and that he is still missing pieces. And that he also doesn't remember everything properly from how thinks it went. His own auto-biography isn't a correct story, as highlighted by Louis being the stranger he once met. Memory is the monster. Daniel feeling freer in Paris to hold 'Alice' hands, Armand triggering Daniel's memories. Raglan knowing Armand wouldn't harm Daniel. Armand caring about Daniel enough to stop Louis from hurting him, from crossing lines, offering comfort and apologies. None of that makes a lot of sense if they weren't something at some point in the past. Especially because Jacob said in an interview that after San Francisco Armand and Louis kind of went their own way, where they didn't always check up on each other. Armand, according to Daniel, would disappear for long stretches of time in the book, which could easily be during the chase. Armand going from Daniel to Louis and back. We also don't really know much about Louis' past and if Armand was always there. Nor do we know when Armand discovered he could walk in the sun. We have a good 50 years of 'nothing' that we still need to see. We still have to learn when and why Louis believed Lestat was dead and murdered by him and Claudia. Or when Louis found out Claudia hated him. And when he forgot about that. Why did Louis stop killing in 2000. What happened that made him want to change. Who did he kill? If we still have to get all that knowledge I have to assume, there is knowledge in those years that we also need about Armand, Lestat and Daniel. So, I guess, I always simply look at the book as being slightly altered but not much. Past DM is still the QoTD chapter bare the turning which is now their separation. And instead of Daniel going mad and being with Marius, the show aged him, gave him wives and daughters. The present is the show's version of the Prince Lestat trilogy. When they reunite. Anne never wrote those scenes out, so the show has a lot of freedom to decide how to go about this. And I think with this set up, Devil's Minion can be the best couple on tv in a very long time. With all the drama, love, lust, longing, fighting, toxicity and warmth, that only they can have. With the whirlwind rollarcoaster romance and the heartbreaking separation of the past, to the challenging, yearned for, longed for, painful, healing and hopeful reunion. I'm not psychic though, but i do really hope this is the direction they are going in, it's the one I would pick and I think it's the one that will have the highest success rate storywise.

[hekateinhell]

Can Armand fly? Like does he have the ~Cloud Gift~ so to speak, or does he not? I can’t remember..

And he doesn’t seem to have/use the Fire Gift too right, or am I wrong?

Armand’s powers are so interesting to me, the way he can make life like illusions like no other (at least I can’t remember an Anne Rice vampire making that kind of illusions, maybe I’m wrong) is somehow so ‘compliant’ with his character.

I remember when Daniel is about to be turned, Armand creates this illusion for him and Daniel’s description is so haunting for some reason, like he can actually smell the flowers, he can see the stars, he can pick a leaf from a tree and he even sees Armand’s damp footprints on the ground(!) Imagine being able to conjure up an illusion like that.. jeez

And he seems to have been able to do it when he was a younger vampire too, right?

Like didn’t he draw mortals who were ready to die from their homes with some kind of illusion, so he could feed on them? (That is also so compliant with his character for some reason now I think about it)

God, he really is SUCH a good character I can’t get over him. I need to have his name tattooed on my body (like Armand definitely tried to convince Daniel to do. ‘Daniel, can’t you get this tattoo of my name on your arm? I want to see how it is done :3’)

Armand does have the Cloud Gift!

The very first mention of Armand being able to fly is in MtD, where Lestat seems rather surprised to realize that he can:

The steel buttons of his [Armand's] denim jacket were icy cold, as though he had come from some far worse winter in a very few moments of time. We are never entirely sure about each other's powers. It's all a game. I would no more have asked him how he got here, or in what manner, than I would ask a mortal man how precisely he made love to his wife. ~ Lestat, MtD

Unrelated but I'm always so thirsty for any insights as to how vampires view their relationships to each other within vampiric norms, and I think it's fascinating that even two vampires who've known each other for so long and have such a complex, intertwined history as Armand and Lestat do don't really know how powerful the other is and it would be taboo to ask. Scandalous!

Thank you to @thecactifindahome for reminding me that Armand actually has known how to fly for quite a while!

By my own will, and with the first explosion of my blood in the light of the morning sun, I had been driven upwards, as high perhaps as I could go. For centuries I'd known how to climb to airy heights and how to move there, but I'd never pushed it to a conceivable limit, but with my zeal for death, I had strained with all my available strength to move Heavenward. My fall had been from the greatest height. ~ Armand, TVA

Armand also has the Fire Gift, which is first noted in PL:

“You go to New York, my friend, and Armand will burn you to cinders,” said Killer. “Oh, not Benji or Sybelle, no, and maybe not even Louis ... but Armand will do it and they won’t bat an eye. And they can do it too. They have Marius’s blood in their veins, those two. Even Louis’s powerful now, got the blood of the older ones in him. But Armand is the one who kills. There are eight million people in Manhattan and four members of the Undead. I warn you, Antoine, they won’t listen to you. They won’t care that Lestat made you. Least I don’t think they will. Hell, you won’t even have a chance to tell them. Armand will hear you coming. Then he’ll kill you on sight. You do know they have to see you to burn you up, don’t you? They can’t do it unless they can see you. But Armand will hunt you down and you won’t be able to hide.” ~ Killer to Antoine, PL

Armand has always been incredibly powerful — even a newborn vampire — which I think is due to a few different factors:

Marius ensured that Armand received plenty of his blood during his turning

Prior to making Armand, Marius hadn't created another vampire since Pandora, some 1,500 years ago so the power in his blood was very potent

Marius's blood was so powerful to begin because of the regular infusions he received from Akasha, so the vampires in his line do tend to be powerful and gifted

This accounts for Armand's early strength and Mind Gift abilities (spellbinding and illusions).

Seeing as the Cloud Gift didn't come until after QotD, I headcanon Armand received a blood power-up from Marius (or perhaps another of the old ones, similar to how Maharet offered Louis her blood). Vampire powers evolve with time/age, surviving a burning, taking the blood of a much more powerful vampire.

Age gave him the Cloud Gift, and following his suicide attempt, Armand did drink from Lestat — so the combination of the burning and Lestat's blood likely contributed to him developing the Fire Gift soon afterwards.

Armand is also telekinetic:

I have most-powerful abilities to cast spells, to dislocate my vision, and to transmit my image over distances, and to affect matter both at close range and matter which is out of sight. ~ Armand, TVA

And last but not least, he may have the power to astral project although I don't believe it's explicitly spelled out but even as a mortal, he has an out of body experience witnessing himself dying, and later on when he's recounting his suicide attempt in TVA, he says this:

That is, having fallen on the roof, burnt and in unspeakable torment, I might have sought a desperate mental escape, projecting my image and my strength into Sybelle's apartment long enough to kill her brother. It certainly is possible for spirits to exert enough pressure on matter to change it. So perhaps that is exactly what I did-project myself in spirit form and lay hands upon the substance that was Fox, and kill him.

However, he doesn't actually believe that that's what happened in this particular instance, but it's the possibility that he is, in fact, powerful enough to do so. Armand was already so unique and "different" as a mortal child and adolescent (I would call this neurodivergent but that wasn't a term in the 15th century or anytime shortly after), that it makes sense his powers would be easily amplified and exceptional in their own right.

Re: his hunting style, it's described by Lestat when they first meet as:

He [Armand] had learned to summon those who truly wished to die. He had but to stand near the dwellings of mortals and call silently to see his victim appear. Old, young, wretched, diseased, the ugly or the beautiful, it did not matter because he did not choose. Dazzling visions he gave, if they should want to receive, but he did not move towards them nor even close his arms around them. Drawn inexorably towards him, it was they who embraced him. And when their warm living flesh touched him, when he opened his lips and felt the blood spill, he knew the only surcease from misery that he could know. It seemed to him in the best of these moments that his way was profoundly spiritual, uncontaminated by the appetites and confusions that made up the world, despite the carnal rapture of the kill. In that act the spiritual and the carnal came together, and it was the spiritual, he was convinced, that survived. Holy Communion it seemed to him, the Blood of the Children of Christ serving only to bring the essence of life itself into his understanding for the split second in which death occurred. ~ Lestat, TVL

Definitely within character, I agree :') for a character that to me reads as having been passively suicidal for most of his life, there is a bittersweet irony and perhaps even a misguided sense of mercy behind it.

AND YES YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY GET AN ARMAND TATTOO I WANT ONE SO BAD!!! character of all time, love of my life, etc etc you guys already know!!!!!

[nalyra-dreaming]

There's something about how we are collectively digesting the supposedly Armand messing with Louis and Daniel's memories reveal/confirmation that rubs me the wrong way. It's not that I'm not convinced that he was responsible for (at least) part of the tinkering (although I have the feeling that there was *someone else* who did it). It is that most of the discourse I see makes it sound as something kind of forced from Armand when imo the key to all of it it is precisely the fact that it is all a barter between Louis and Armand.

From Armand's traumatic past as a sex slave and his life with Marius to Armand letting Daniel live in exchange for Louis's companionship. Armand says to Daniel "Bartering with desire. Is that what makes you fascinating?" And that's exactly what his relationship with Louis is about cause this is the only way Armand understands love, as a transaction. And Louis happens to be an art dealer who's very good at running things.

Among all the relationships in the show, I think Loumand is probably the least wholesome (sorry Naomi but you were so wrong). And that's what makes it the most fascinating imo. Loumand is the most messed up relationship in the show not because of power imbalance like Armand Marius or Devil's Minion but because there is an agreement between them. I think that robbing Louis of his agency in the deal would be missing the point of both the novel and the show

Mhhhh. I know what you're getting at. I mean, you probably know I am of the opinion that Louis did invite Armand to secure Claudia's and his own safety (at first at least), and he certainly behaves as if this relationship protects him from the pressures of the rules (and coven).

So there is a certain level of... assumed control. But... There was this post a few days back, comparing Armand to a willingly leashed tiger, and I think that fits very well.

Because even though you know that I still think that there might be more to it all (especially wrt Daniel's memories if the 12 years DM truly happened), and though I do think that Louis might even have asked Armand for a reprieve... I do not think Louis would consent to an intrusion like this. Armand is still very much in control, and Assad put it very precisely I think, when he said that he just cannot relax with the truth... Armand is the only one who knows the truth, and who... has Louis under "maintenance". He "protects Louis from himself".

In fact I think this, and the missing pages, and a lot of other little things will come to a head now in Dubai. Probably will facilitate that "cataclysmic event" that I've been talking about...

I... do think there was a lot more to the relationship before San Francisco than there is after SF. Because Armand literally controls Louis after. He says that the name "Lestat" had not been uttered in their relationship for 23 years, but it's still a trigger for them both, leading to catastrophic results in a single session. Oh, the other "tri-annual" events and kills were bad enough, but this... this was new. And Armand went and made sure it wouldn't happen again.

You are right that Loumand is among the least healthy relationships... I would argue even canonically so, though of course the show has dialed it up to 99. (And god, I wished Naomi/her guest had never said that, the drama this statement caused, seriously). But I... I mean, it is more interesting in Paris and up to San Francisco, definitely. Or, at least in Paris. Because I think... I think whatever happens after the trial will already shift their relationship. Because why would Louis, this Louis stay with Armand? Why does he? What exactly makes him stay with Armand. (I think that will be a really interesting aspect in the show!)

For ME((!!!!))... that is why Loumand is not fascinating (Though I get it if it is for you^^💕). Because Louis is not well... and Armand... Armand tags along, they foreshadowed that on the walk along the Seine - and then Louis tags along, later. Or exists.

(*by a companion.)

Armand tries to salvage what he can while groveling for what he did in Paris. And that is precisely where their "agreement" stops, for me. Because if your mind is tinkered with... you cannot consent.

It's like being under drugs - you cannot consent.

And Armand has never been much about consent... unfortunately.

So yeah, that's ... my two cents on this^^.

It definitely is one of the most difficult relationships at this point.

We'll see in the next episodes where Louis' "agreement" with Armand stops, I think. Because if I'm right and Louis did not see this as part of the "agreement"? Then this will hit the fan in Dubai - and personally I expect it to (and I think, going by Jacob's statement - it will).

[ca-suffit]

I was going to say this off anon but I have a second blog for iwtv and I don't want the og one out in the fandom kind of. But I never understood why people say Louis was abusive to lestat and the instances they point out are a) neglect b) not being affectionate c) withholding affection. Which like. Ok. Maybe my inexperience but I just don't think not giving love back in this instance is abusive. Because I genuinely do think he wasn't capable of love in those times. Like early on we see him lying to his family juggling 3 roles to spend time with lestat and shopping dates and what not. He was loving. And then HIS CHILD RAN AWAY. i don't think any caring parent is capable of love in that time. And then there's his malnutrition which ofc lowers his sex drive and the mental toll malnutrition takes is depression and anhedonia. But to call that manipulation??? To call that abuse?? Withholding affection as abuse in this case? Like mf What makes you think he was capable of love you can't deny something you don't have/aren't capable of!? His child is missing. His child is gone do you get it??? He's supposed to be making date plans??? Ik withholding affection and then lovebombing is a thing for abusers but ffs. He's depressed that's why he isn't loving when you're depressed you're literally not capable of it because your brain has drained all of it out WHAT DO YOU MEAN WITHHOLDING LOVE? Same with Armand. His child is dead. A part of Louis died with her. Is he supposed to be ffs. I don't want to type anymore. And ykw both these partners have the power to leave at any time. If you're not getting love that's what you do i get lestat why he wouldn't in America like he'd be pretty much alone and Armand always had that choice too. It's their specific personalities which made them stick with him but at the same time.my guy you're both more powerful than him fucking leave if it's so bad. But that's what love does and they stayed but at no point was it abusive on Louis' end?? At no point did it justify the abuse he's met with at lestat's or armand's hands??? And there's always intent behind abuse and if Louis' is not loving it's not because of some scheme. No his child is missing. The child.is also female and tiny we know what happens to them when they're alone how tf do you not get what state he'd be in?? And to expect love from him? And that's what's actually funny to me about both lestat and Armand like they really didn't think about what the loss of a child would mean to both their respective relationships with Louis. Like they really thought a parent could chill live laugh love with them while his child is gone. Ok. Sure why not. Um yea. Sorry for the long rant. Anyway I just don't think withholding affection applies to anyone here least of all Louis and never Louis no matter what the "pAtTeRn" is with him. No the pattern is depression brought on by the loss of his child. If you had actual brains you'd make that connection but no. No. Since this is the abusive partners yaoi show we have to see abuse where it isn't and minimize where it is. It'll be wonderful when Marius the guy who does loooooooove children will show up. Then we'll surely talk about love and loss and see the connections

ppl just made shit up bcuz they needed to soften lestat tbh. then armand to a degree too.

the angle never was "what are louis' partners doing to help him thru these bad times." it was always "louis isn't loving *them* enough!!" louis is also younger than *both* of them and comes from a different life experience which is still alive for him too, unlike their individual experiences and/or traumas. armand is still experiencing racism but it's not like the antiblackness louis and claudia face.......which then ends up in the trial too?! which *both* louis nb partners have a part in???

u bring up a good point for the marius angle too. this fandom makes me sick lol.