#Armand be like: I love Marius. He is kind and good to me

[nightcolorz]

Throw back to when I was reading The Vampire Armand, read this paragraph, which is 13-14 yr old newly Amadeo-Armand describing Marius:

And thought that it came off as super vague and ominous, like one of those poor quality creepy-pasta few sentence horror stories you find edited against a spooky stock photo background on Instagram. So I did just that, lmao:

[wretcheddoll]

So this might be a hot take, probably not to any fellow Marius/Armand shippers but for people who dislike them I know this scene is quite controversial...

But, I love the bath scene and yes I do think in the context of the story that was a "good" thing for Marius to do.

"But Armand was a sexually traumatized minor with amnesia and the first thing Marius thought to do was to have sex with him?!"

-Yes, something that would be an extremely bad and a morally corrupt thing to do in real life can be a good thing within the context of the story you are reading.

"But Armand didn't want it! He was practically mute; he couldn't say no!"

-But he did want it, he literally thinks in his mind that he wants it before Marius does it, and Marius can literally read his mind.

Any hesitation Armand has is more to do with religious shame then not wanting it, which feels like a classic erotic scene, shame giving way to pleasure when your older more experienced partner guides you through it. And yes, a real minor cannot consent to a 1,500 year old vampire but again he’s not real and the key is to pay attention to the actual sentiments Armand is expressing in this scene, that of repressed desire and pleasure. He's filled with "warm thrilling sensations" he doesn't claim to feel bad in any way.

I also want to disagree with this notion that Armand instantly clings to any "abuser" that shows him an inch of kindness. Armand did not cling to his slavers, not the man who was "nice" to him and didn't make him do sexual things and stopped him from being beaten.

On the contrary, Armand is endlessly defiant towards his abusers and only surrenders in Marius's arms because he feels safe and loved with him, partially because he sees Marius as some sort of ethereal being and not a normal man. And also, because he finds Marius attractive of course😏.

The boys in the brothel being “soft” with him, he’s not into it at all.

The old man who never touched him, and showed him “kindness,” Armand saying he didn’t love him.

Armand finding Marius hot lol

Armand feeling like an active participant in his sexual experience with Marius, “We began the kisses again,” not Marius did this to me.

I know a lot of people say that Armand is an unreliable narrator in this scene, which I find silly because even if he is, this is still his emotional truth about this experience, and he doesn't feel bad or exploited or like he was raped by Marius 500 years later. I think you're supposed to take the "victim's" feelings about an event into account, no?

But for the sake of argument let's look at Marius's perspective of this scene from Blood & Gold.

So Marius is pretty lost in the daddy sauce from the moment he scoops Amadeo up, his caregiver instincts take hold lol

He's truly in his element.

Marius confirms that Amadeo is quite accepting and willing with his intimacy unlike how he was with his abusers.

I see this quote thrown around a lot without context, but all you need to do is keep reading and, oh wait that's not so sinister... He literally stops wanting to die because of Marius's kisses.

I also see this line used a lot to show how "bad" this scene is.

But again, I'd argue based on everything we're shown in TVA this has more to do with religious trauma/shock then being traumatized by what Marius is doing. We know Armand does not reflect on this experience in a negative way and remembers it being pleasurable.

The immediate after math of the bath.

"He was breathing as though he were safe." and "Yet in his mute expression now I saw pure trust." And Amadeo immediately calling him "Master." To me this shows that the bath was in fact a healing experience for Amadeo, he feels incredibly safe in Marius's bed, he's not having nightmares, and he's looking to Marius as his Master already without being told or influenced to think that way. And well, yes this doesn't heal his religious trauma or bring back his memories, (I don't think even the greatest head in the world could do that) it does relax him in the moment and make him feel good, which is exactly what Marius wanted to do. I certainly don't think there's evidence to support that it traumatized him or was a negative experience for him in any way.

All this to say, I don't think you're wrong if this scene makes you uncomfortable or grosses you out. I think it's perfectly valid to have big problems with the way AR wrote about teen sexuality and age gap relationships, but what I'm sick of is people acting like I'm stupid or a pervert for not "getting it" and finding this scene appealing. I get that a situation like this involving a real minor and a real adult would be inherently traumatizing for that minor, but Marius and Amadeo are not real, Marius is an ancient vampire without a human sexuality, not an adult man using Amadeo for his own pleasure.

Just because I find their relationship kinky and appealing does not mean I lack media literacy, but if you think Armand's story is supposed to be about his trauma from being "sexually abused" by Marius, I am going to question if you are actually reading the text as it is written, or if you are projecting your own feelings of discomfort onto Armand's character and their relationship as a whole. For me the crossing of taboos is a feature of Rice's vampire relationships not a bug, I like the father/son/lover dynamic that they have.

[ravennawritesfanfiction]

Beauty From Darkness Part 2

Word Count: 2919

Pairings: Louis x Lestat, Armand x Reader

Summary: The interview brought forth feelings that had been long surpressed in the group. You all start working through wrongs and towards some kind of peace.

The interview had ushered in a new era for the Vampires of the group. Pain and hurt became the forefront of their thoughts; whether it was their own hurt or that which they had caused. The only two largely unaffected had been You and Louis, who had already begun processing. 

For Armand, there was a fist full of pills for him to swallow. He had found himself without a lie to hide behind. He was exposed; he was utterly surrounded by pain and suffering, some he had directly caused and some he had just made worse. He took time to process the pain he had caused Louis in Paris and further throughout their time together. He thought about all of the things he had done to Lestat, most of which he decided had not been warranted. 

Lestat was feeling the weight of every failed relationship, boiled down to his first. His lack of emotional awareness smacking him in the face. He would drown in it. Lestat was good at many things; apologies were never one of those things. 

While Armand and Lestat stewed in their respective wrong doings, you and Louis were left caring for their emotional turmoil and pulling your hair out. Armand had developed a habit of being clingy and trying to reassure himself that you loved him. Lestat was ever the drama queen; sprinkling the whoa is me act on a little too thick for Louis’ liking. By the end of the week, it was decided that something had to be done.

  One night, seemingly out of the blue to Lestat, you called to him; summoning him. He had gone home to New Orleans after the interview and your tour had brought you to Miami, not far for vampires to travel. Armand had wanted to go with you; Marius had to physically hold him back. You met Lestat on a deserted beach. 

You weren’t sure how to begin once he arrived, over two hundred years, you still didn’t know what to say to him. He looked so broken standing on that beach. His eyes were already full of tears. You looked to the ocean separating you from your prison of so long ago now. It would hurt you both, no matter where you began.

“Do you know what you did,” you turned to face him. “I don’t mean your actions, but the consequences of them.” you watched him shift like he wanted to run away from this, but he knew you both needed this. He'd be damned if he denied you again. He shook his head.

“I was afraid when my parents sold me out. I was alone. Raised with the knowledge that I was nothing without a husband. I was hopeful when they told me I was to marry you. I had endless possibilities floating in my head; I would be a wife, maybe a mother. Maybe we would go off on our own with our little family and lead lives worth remembering.” you stopped, your next admission would forever be a sore spot for you. “I always wanted to be a mother. I was promised to a handsome young man; I could almost see them and they were the most beautiful things in the world. But I was not made into a wife or mother. I was reduced to garbage and thrown away. The ghost in the castle walls. A prison I would never hope to escape and married to my jailer.” Lestat took half a step towards you until you motioned for him to stay. 

“My only peace was Gabrielle and my walks. She stayed with me on long days alone and taught me to read so that I may find the escape she had. On my walks, I could almost imagine I was home. Free and unburdened. You probably do not remember running into me in her library, that day, nine years after our wedding.”  he looked at you.

“I do remember.” he whispered, hanging his head in shame. 

“I could not reconcile that handsome gentleman with the boy who humiliated me at the wedding and then roughly discarded me after claiming me. It broke my heart all over again. You were on my mind for two years after that. I would imagine running into you and we would talk. You’d fall in love with me and I wouldn’t be alone. I know you watched me from afar. I always prayed you would approach, but you never did. Then every night I would relive my wedding, your words echoed in my ears until I woke up in the morning.” Lestat fell to his knees in the sand.

“I got free though. I had gone for a walk after dinner, which I was forced to take in my room every night. It wasn’t dark yet when I left and I hadn’t intended to be out very long, just some fresh air before bed. But I got distracted watching the moon rise and the stars were stunning that night. Marius found me. At first he planned on just killing me, but he is the collector of beautiful things, he took me away with him.” Lestat was listening closely to the story; he had never stopped wondering how you had died, then after discovering you were a vampire, he was no less interested in your story.

“I was loved for the first time in my life. I was happy to be surrounded by those beautiful stars. The smell of Marius’ paints. The feeling of the sheet music in my hands. The sounds of my life filling the air in those dark hours. I was finally at peace.” You paused and studied Lestat for a long moment.

“Then you approached, seeking Marius. Marius knew that there would be no more peace for me there, so he sent me way. My only task was to experience the joys of the world. But I was alone again. I was angry with you for robbing me yet again.” Lestat shook his head, crying. He had done far more to you than he could have imagined. 

“I went to Paris. I had been taught to announce my presence and that is just what I did. Armand was the vampire who greeted me in Paris. You had asked how I was with; how did you put it? A Gremlin like Armand? That would be because he was my first love. He was my companion for ten amazing years. I could have stayed with him forever there among the theater walls; we only parted because I refused to join the coven which infuriated the others. He sent me away so that they wouldn’t kill me.” He understood Armand in a way he had not before; he had set you free. He hadn’t been selfish with you.

“He has been in my corner all along. But I didn’t call you here just to list all the ways in which you have wronged me. Though it was important that you heard them. I called you here for two things, which I will only say once under these stars and then never again. First, I forgive you for all the things you knowingly did and the things you did without knowledge. Secondly, Thank you. If things had gone differently, I wouldn’t have been found by Marius. I wouldn’t have found Armand. Most importantly, I wouldn’t have found myself.” You approached him this time and gave him a kiss on the cheek. 

“I mourned your death. I knew it was too late, but I knew then what I had done. Gabrielle was so full of rage towards me. I’ve carried this with me for two hundred and thirty-seven years, I never once thought I would get the chance to apologize to you. I thought a lot about the girl in the library. Her beauty, her quiet nature. When mother told me it had been you, it killed me. I had asked about you repeatedly, but I was told to stay away from you. I understand now that Gabrielle was trying to protect you from me. But I wanted to talk to you. I never thought to hope that I could be forgiven for what I did to you. And for what I did, I can never express how sorry I am.” you nodded and gave him a hug.

“I have a proposition for you, Lestat.” you said from your place in the hug. “We didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell before. We were doomed before it began; let’s not squander our second chance. I would be honored to count you as my friend.” Lestat answered you by tightening the hug, he was crying, but so much seemed to have been lifted from his shoulders. You both stayed on that beach for hours watching the stars dance overhead. You parted that night as friends. 

The next night, Louis called to you again. Apparently Lestat had come home and apologized for everything he had ever done. Every harsh word. Every lie. Every ignored feeling he had ignored; he had listed them all out and apologized individually for each action. He went on to tell Louis about you and all the things he had done to you. Louis couldn’t believe that you had forgiven it all. He was even more amazed that after everything, you still wanted to be friends with him. 

“Your turn, Louis. Don’t let it fester like we did.” He knew that you meant Armand. The last vampire on the planet that he wanted to see.

Louis chose New Orleans as the theater for their meeting. Armand clung to you and told you over and over how much he loved you. It was like a soldier leaving home for battle. Maybe that was how this felt to Armand. You weren’t worried, Louis had promised not to kill Armand. 

Louis was already in Jackson Square by the time Armand finally arrived. He gestured to the bench beside him. Armand sat at the other end and turned to face Louis. Louis just sat there for a while, letting Armand stew for a bit.

“You can relax, I didn’t call you here to die. I wanted to clear the air.” Armand relaxed at the notion of going home.

“I wanted to apologize for the things I have done to you. First, I am sorry for trying to make you turn Madeline, I am sorry that while you were uncomfortable with the situation, I gave you shit for it. I am sorry that I made you feel like you had to choose me or the coven. I am sorry that you were always made to feel like my second choice, always backseat to my hallucinations of Lestat. I am sorry that you felt that I chose Claudia over you. And then I am sorry for these past seventy-seven years, all the shit I said and did to you out of anger. I am sorry. If I had done things differently, maybe we would have been alright.” Louis was truly sorry for his behavior for much of his existence and all of the people he had her with it. 

“I accept your apologies, Louis. And I myself have much to apologize for. I am sorry that I drove a wedge between you and Claudia. I am sorry that I allowed my jealousy to take her from you. I am sorry that my reaction was that if I couldn’t have you then no one could. I am sorry for every lie and manipulation since then. I am sorry that I killed Daniel and then abandoned him after you told me not to touch him. I am sorry I didn’t see sooner that I acted like a child, breaking my toys when I didn’t get my way.” Louis nodded.

“I accept that you are apologizing. But I cannot forgive you right now; and I am not sure I ever will. I know Claudia wouldn’t either. I can’t forgive the years you let me hate Lestat for something he didn’t do.” his fist was balled up, but he had a promise to keep. “All I can say to you now is that you can rest assured you won’t have to look for me over your shoulder. You have (Y/N) to thank for that. You better not hurt her.” Louis stood and extended a hand to Armand. A truce. It was more that anyone had expected to come from this.

He called to you as soon as Louis left. Despite the fact that only Louis had been forgiven, it was a start and a move in the right direction. You were all intermingled with each other, and voicing the hurt was slowly making way for a new beginning. You were also glad to hear that Louis wasn’t actively plotting Armand’s death. He wanted to come home, but he had unfinished business in New Orleans. You were already on your way to him. 

Lestat and Armand moved to the parlour as soon as you arrived; this left you and Louis trapped in the kitchen. You shut your minds off out of respect for the conversation happening in the other room. This also gave you and Louis a chance to sit and socialize in person for once.

Lestat sat down and waited for Armand to begin. He didn’t feel like he had much to apologize for. He had decided to hear Amrand out first and then he would apologize if he felt like it.

“Lestat. I have done a great many things to you over these years. All from a place of anger I no longer recognize. I killed your fledgling, not for any particular reason other than to inflict pain on you and Louis. I could have stopped it after you saved Louis, but I still wanted to hurt you. To break you the way I felt broken. I proceeded to keep your companion from you because you had ruined my plans. I deeply regret keeping Louis from you. I did not understand Love. I only knew loneliness and I wanted you to feel it. I know now what I did to you. I am profoundly sorry for that. I am also sorry for dragging Claudia and Madeline into the plan and ruining their chances at love too.” he paused and Lestat cut in.

“You killed two fledglings and took away two companions.” he corrected to Armand’s confusion.

“I did not kill two fledglings?” Armand could not think of any other fledgling he could have killed.

“Nicholas de Lenfent.” Lestat spit in outrage. You and Louis paused your conversation when you heard Lestat yell. 

“I have done many things, killing him is not one of them. Lestat, you can read my mind if you want, but I tell you honestly, I did not kill Nicki. He killed himself. He spiraled out of control after you left. He played his violin manically at all hours, he revealed his vampire nature to mortals regularly, and he attacked people out on the street unprovoked. I locked him away in the theater to protect him. I admit that I took his hands for a few days, but when I returned them, he composed a stack of new work and demanded we hold a sabbat in his honor. When I refused, he threatened to burn down the theater with everyone inside. So, we held the sabbat. He started dancing wildly around the flames and then he danced into the flames. It was a horror to witness.” Lestat was horrified about Nicki’s final act. He had held that anger for years and it was placed on the wrong person. 

“I am sorry for leaving so suddenly.”Lestat started.”I took your way of life, flipped it upside down, learned what I could and then left you with my regret.” Lestat regretted turning Nicki. He should have let him go.

“I forgave you for the Children of Darkness.” Armand said softly.

“Just not for leaving.” Armand nodded. “We would have ended badly.”

“Perhaps, but you were my first love and I needed you in this new life you had built.” Lestat pondered the connection of every failed relationship. 

“It was never me you needed.” he looked at the door separating them from their companions. “Armand, you have done the one thing I could not. You have loved her in all the ways she deserves. I will never forgive you for Paris, but thank you for loving her.” Armadn nodded and smiled towards the door. 

“I know she forgave you. I don’t know how she did it. I don’t know how such beauty has thrived in the darkness. For what I’ve done, I don’t understand how she loves me.” Lestat shrugged.

“I’m glad she did. And I’m glad she does. You are better with her.” your laughter filled the air over something Louis had said. Both men smiled for different reasons. Armand was smiling at the joy of his love. Lestat, it was a sound he had never heard before and one he never thought he would hear. They raised to join the fun. They found you both eating chocolate ice cream; it was all over Louis’ face and you were laughing so hard you were crying. 

After you regained composure, which took awhile since every time you looked at Louis, you’d lose it again, you suggested you all go to San Francisco. You wanted to check in on Daniel. Armand had one last piece of unfinished business. Everything was looking up.

[lotstradamus]

i'm loving all your vampire posting lottie! if you're ever so compelled i'd love to hear what you make of the books vs the show and if there are any book things you'd especially like to see done on the show! (also, bookwise, are you a lestat girl or an armand girl or a louis/marius/david/akasha/claudia girl or or or)

as someone who tried to read Interview with the Vampire thrice (THRICE!!!) pre-AMC show revival and simply could not get through it (it is melancholy), I cannot BELIEVE how down bad I am for these books right now. I keep seeing bad reviews on goodreads and girding my loins for each new book expecting the quality to nosedive, but 1 star bitch WHERE? WHERE??? I AM HAVING THE TIME OF MY GODDAMN LIFE

in terms of books vs show, honestly after a point the books are kind of Unadaptable unless they radically change the main cast, vibe and format of the show every single season, and the changes they made to IWTV were good to the point of sending me fucking insane so they can just keep on doing whatever their little hearts desire with the source material imo!!! howmever I DO have some suggestions for the upcoming seasons:

Lestat crying twice an ep (non-negotiable)

I would kind of love it if Lestat is the only character who tells the truth. the most reliablest narrator and normal girl to ever live. and yet every time he says something like "I killed a pack of wolves single-handedly" or "I woke Those Who Must Be Kept by playing violin" or "I snog my mother with tongue" Daniel is just sitting there like "............riiiight."

Gabrielle. Gabrielle Gabrielle Gabrielle. mainly I would like to smash cut to Gabrielle in the middle of really intense Lestat/everyone else scenes and she's just like peacefully sleeping in the ground... strolling through a distant jungle... sitting on a mountain looking at the stars in silence...

EXCEPT that one scene where she pulls up to Lestat's concert like she's in 2 Fast 2 Furious

it'll be interesting to see how they adapt Queen of the Damned because so little of it is actually from Lestat's pov, and all of it is amazing and cannot be cut out: [Stefon voice] the Twins, Jesse, specifically Jesse being haunted in Louis and Lestat's old New Orleans house, everyone hanging out/playing out terrible interpersonal dramas at the Sonoma compound, NIGHT ISLAND...!

I cannot stress this enough: GHOST CLAUDIA.

I want them to do Body Thief. fuck it, why not. must haves are Mojo, a random hunk with a PhD in Sam Reid's mannerisms playing Lestat for 6/8 episodes, Lestat nearly dying 25 times cos he pilots his human body like a drunk muppet, and, most importantly, Lestat BEGGING David Talbot for some old man pussy

oh and an entire episode set on a cruise ship

my favourite scene from the whole of Body Thief was Lestat turning David at the end against his will cos it was genuinely quite awful and frightening but also. um. you know. awooga

if they include Gretchen, then I would like the opposite of my Gabrielle request for everything post-Body Thief: whenever there's a peaceful, quiet scene it smash cuts to the wilds of South America where Gretchen is absolutely stark raving mad on the floor of a chapel with stigmata

I can't even begin to think about how they'd adapt Memnoch, but regardless I want them to keep the scene where Lestat drinks someone's period blood. thanks

also his cunty little lilac-tinted sunglasses that he will not fucking stop talking about

and finally, human Armand getting drunk and falling into the Grand Canal

bookwise, I am a Lestat girl the house down boots... I love his over-dramatic idiot crybaby ass!!!!! although the final page of Memnoch the Devil made me burst into tears and cry my whole face off until I confirmed that Lestat comes back as the narrator in future books soooo maybe like calls to like. self recognition through the other, etc. I do also get a shot of pure joy every time Armand shows up, especially in Lestat's pov. 'ah, there he was, the Botticelli angel, so beautiful. I fucking hated him. we kissed.' sis THEE dopamine.

currently suffering because I want to a) stop reading the series immediately so I can go back and reread The Vampire Lestat, and yet also b) never ever stop reading the series for love nor money. please help me budget this my family is dying

[monstersinthecosmos]

First, you write a lengthy post claiming that Marius treats Armand like an animal, and then you wonder why Armand and Marius shippers are seen as outcasts in the fandom. You present humiliation, disrespect and devaluation as something sexual and normal in their relationship. There is a difference between not seeing Armand as an adult and independent person and not seeing him as a person at all. Like, you're literally doing ALL the work for the antis, LMAO.

If Marius sees Armand as a cat, then maybe he shouldn't be left alone with animals

just saying.

Like, 'Armand, Marius picked up a shepherd dog from the street today. You both share the same level of love, respect, and significance! 😍 But don’t be upset; being someone's dog can be great! And remember, you actually like it! 🥺'

BEST GASLIGHTING EVER

Maybe he’s okay with this situation because he doesn’t remember what real kindness feels like? Roleplay in bed for the sake of temporary humiliation is one thing, but to see someone you’re in a romantic relationship with as nothing more than an animal is just messed up. What are you even talking about? 😭

Yknow what.

I’ve been marinating on this all day and thinking about ways to respond kindly, because I think leveraging literacy at people in fandom arguments is really fucked up and that isn’t the person I want to be. I've even had my own journey in VC fandom because when I first joined Tumblr, the big meta writers were condescending as fuck and used to make me feel really stupid for liking Marius, and that's such a destructive and unwelcoming attitude. It took me a really long time to feel brave enough to even share meta, because of those folks, and now I have to worry about you chodes. And it's just a never ending Sisyphean task to cultivate a space where Marius fans feel safe. And that's for EVERY Marius fan, not just the ones you deign pure & good enough to exist. In fact, it even goes for all the book fans in general. I don't give a fuck if someone likes Marius--everyone is allowed to participate if they're not going out of their way to hurt people. You're an adult. Block people and curate your space, it's not my job to do that for you.

Everyone, at every reading level, is allowed to participate in fandom, and I think we can’t be true leftists if we don’t acknowledge the education problem in the US. (Assuming you’re American because Americans Feelings Yakuza tend to behave like this but if you’re not American, good job blending in, it's really embarrassing for you.) I don’t think I can ethically condemn the degradation of our education system and I don’t think I can condemn this sect of fandom’s violent anti-intellectualism if I don’t also show sympathy for its victims. I'm really sorry that your parents/teachers/whoever failed you this badly and I hope things get better for you, because I don't wish this on anybody.

So when I turn into a cunt in thirty seconds, I want you to know it’s not because I think you’re stupid. It’s because I think you’re a fucking asshole. <3  And I don’t care what the fuck your problem is, it’s YOUR problem, and we don’t have to tolerate this type of thought policing and fascism in a fandom space. You don’t get to talk to me like this just because you don’t like stuff that I write.

Having said that, I also am just, particularly fucking baffled by how incoherent and ideologically unsound this ask is, not to mention how blindingly, willfully ignorant it is. Like, I hate to say this, but it’s SO stupid that I almost can’t believe someone would actually say this to me, and it makes me wonder if you’re like, an outside agitator pretending to be one of these Mariusblr morons to bait me. So I wondered if I shouldn’t validate it with a response, but then I thought,

Fandom deserves to see this lol

You actually did a good job of imitating this attitude that I DO see, for real, in this fandom, so like maybe it’s a public service to bait me to get me to talk about it. So I guess I will.

Now, I did talk about this topic here and I said what I need to say. I already said everything I needed to say on the topic of doting upon the cute little mortal, and to send me this anon after reading that post, the reading comprehension is either ABYSMAL or you’re just pulling an OH SO YOU HATE WAFFLES on me which is like. Why. Lol.

And I can’t help someone who’s determined to misinterpret everything I will ever say, no matter what. But again, I’m kinda posting this as a fandom PSA because this is a great example of the braindead nonsense that goes on in Mariusblr and I think the people deserve to laugh at you lol, so if you want to misinterpret me some more, I can’t help you.

We’re not gonna discuss Marius in this post. What we’re going to discuss is the idea that “””THE ANTIS””” are out to get us, and the irony of couching anti hysteria in this exact message.

So let’s go back to basics and refresh on what the fuck a fandom anti is.

So when you talk about FANDOM ANTIS, I actually have to ask: Babe are you seeing yourself right now? Are these antis in the fucking room? Is the call coming from inside the house?

You don’t get to have a little bit of censorship, or a little bit of harassment.  If someone outside of our fandom saw this post, without the existing context of who Marius and Armand are, they’d think YOU were the anti for telling me how to interpret this ship, not to mention whatever the fuck is this weird kinkshaming. Censorship is bad, full stop. It's not, censorship is only bad when it's the thing I like. Same for leaving people twatty anons. Bullying people is still bad, and you don't get decide who deserves it.

You don’t get to cry about antis and then pop into people’s inboxes to ridicule them because they didn’t read the book the same way you did. You don’t get to lecture me about kink and ship dynamics. YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING ON THE SIDE YOU THINK YOU’RE FIGHTING ON.

And isn’t it ironic that I’ve been Mariusing on tumblr for like, unfortunately, eight fucking years now lmao RIP, and I’ve been harassed about Marius MORE by you fuckin dweebs than I have by the actual antis.

Now, again.

I never want to tease anyone for their reading comprehension. I’m not making fun of you. I’m gonna spell this out because I want to help you, because I can see that reading isn’t your strong suit.

The fight about antis & proshippers & censorship is not a crusade about character apologism and defending ships as being moral, it’s about distinguishing fiction from reality and allowing people to enjoy fucked up art.

You aren’t accomplishing what you think you’re accomplishing here. Like, first of all. I don’t give a single flying fuck about “”the antis””. Let them masturbate in abject shame in the privacy of their pitch black bedrooms. It’s not my business. What horrifies me here is that you yourself are the anti in this situation.

You are in my inbox scolding me for my amoral shipping.

You are in my inbox upset with me because I celebrated that a ship I like is fucked up.

A proshipper would’ve read my post and gone “Eh. I disagree but that’s okay.” And kept scrolling. Maybe they even block me! That’s fine too!

But how the fuck are you gonna sit there crying about antis when you’re the one harassing everybody lol.

And let’s not jerk off here; the sincerity with which you are complaining about antis in my inbox is SO fucking lame. Like can we please go outside?

I’m no stranger to fandom drama (like I said, I’ve been Marius Tumbling for like 8 years and I’ve done my time in Sheith Hell) and I understand when these terms are useful shorthand for a fandom-specific problem. But I also think, what if we grow up and speak honestly about what antis are? It really blunts the harm of the entire ideology, especially when you're misusing it this egregiously, and I think there are times when we deserve to take censorship and fascism seriously, because it's not a coincidence that it's spreading inside fandom at the same speed it's spreading outside in the real world, and I want you to think really hard about which side you're on.

Like, what if we use the term “conservative” or “Frollo” or “fandom police” or “FANDOM MAGA” ?? You come to me upset that I’m somehow giving some boogeyman ammunition when like. THEY ALREADY HATE MARIUS, WHO THE FUCK CARES. When you change the topic from “Fiction is allowed to be fucked up” to “It’s okay to like Marius because he actually didn’t do anything wrong” you’re COMPLETELY missing the point, and in the same motion you are upset with ME for implying that Marius did something wrong.

And it’s so fucking hypocritical? Like this is the same as when the fandom conservatives have ACAB in their bio while also harassing people--you are adopting language to fit into an identity when you don't actually understand what you're saying. I would've thought VC fans--especially Marius fans--would be more aware of cult behavior & groupthink and see the red flags more easily. (Again, having sympathy for you: Please escape this cult.)

How often do we see arguments break out in fandom where we go “If you’re upset with Marius, why aren’t you upset with everyone else?” Or like, I CAN ACCEPT THE MURDERING AND RAPE BUT DRAW THE LINE AT WHIPPING THE 17 YEAR OLD. Like. Where do YOU draw the line?

Is it okay to talk about Marius as a murderer? But we’re not allowed to say that he has some emotional problems? Also didn't one of you chucklefucks accuse me of being ablest lmao the irony.

It’s also fascinating that this camp in fandom is constantly crying about how like, antis DON’T UNDERSTAND ANNE RICE and how MARIUS/ARMAND IS CANON and yet …………………. Was anything I said not also canon? And where do you get the balls to use Anne Rice as a shield when she also said the same things that I said. She wrote the fucking book.

You know what.

I feel really strongly that like, in a fandom, people need to have better etiquette when they complain about THE THING vs THE FANS OF THE THING. For example, I have zero problem with someone coming out of TVA disgusted and triggered and writing analysis of Marius being a disgusting creep. We don’t have the right to tell someone not to feel that way.

What I DO have a problem with is when people say “Marius is a disgusting creep and his fans are gross for enjoying it.”

And what YOURE saying, essentially, is that I’m gross for enjoying Marius in the way I read him.

Not to be like, a fucking, egomaniac, but. I have to say this lol. Do you know who I am?

Are you new here?

Have I not worked hard enough to establish that he’s my favorite literary character of all time and I adore him to death?

But I have different headcanons than you so I’m a bad person?

Anyway.

This has gone on long enough, I think I’ve made my point.

I genuinely can’t tell if someone like ChatGPT’d this anon to me just to rile me up and get me mad at that side of Mariusblr, but the truth is that like. I’ve seen them say these things. I’ve been blocked by these folks. Every time I write meta where I acknowledge that Marius isn’t perfect, they vague me to fuck. So honestly like. It’s not out of the range of possibility and I’m going to take this opportunity to talk about it because some of us are fucking normal about a book and we just want to have fun and post meta and write fics and like. If you don’t like my meta and fics you can simply move along.

And you know what else!!

WE ALL SEE THIS. You make fandom uncomfortable for everybody. Every time I do acknowledge this, I get people in my inbox talking about how uncomfortable you’ve made them and how they became hurt and decided not to share in fandom anymore. That’s you doing that. It isn’t ~ the antis ~. It’s you, because you don’t let anybody enjoy the books the way they want to enjoy the books. And I think it’s really interesting that I’ve noticed that half of fandom sort of cannibalizing itself lately. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that  this whole group of clowns blocked me around the same time, when their jackass ringleader originally got mad at me for flagrantly misunderstanding something I said. This is that same abysmal reading comprehension and violent anti-intellectualism coming back to bite you in the ass. And so like, I have to also ask, if you have some issue with me, maybe consider the source, and if this person is perhaps a complete douchebag who will cannibalize their own friends the second they step out of line. And I wonder if there are any receipts for my alleged atrocious behavior, or if I was always just minding my own business and writing fanfic and sharing meta and being nice to people, and encouraging people to ship whatever they want, and allowing people to read the book differently than I did.

You don’t get to tell people what type of content they’re allowed to create. If you’re very concerned about how people read Marius, maybe write your own meta. This is MY space, not yours, and you’re not going to kinkshame and censor me, and you’re not going to bully me.

This is ridiculous and you’re a joke.

[shelfperson]

i don’t have the energy to make the web weave right now but i have been READING the ntn poem and i have been WATCHING iwtv and uhmmmm.

and louis as the good son, the breadwinner, the motherfather, the voice of flawed and broken comfort. him, stepping in to care for paul, for claudia, for daniel, but it never seems to be enough. he can never save them. never love them right. meaningless words, meaningless. the knife in the breastbone, the hand on the throat, the teeth in the neck.

and the sunlight is never hopeful for louis. there is never a morning to save him from the endless dark he’s living in. he loved his brother more than anything in the world and he died on his last sunrise. claudia was his light, his redemption, and the fire took her. and then he walked out into the sun.

and the cycle is endless…. how many families built from the flawed blueprint of the first? a wife in the mold of your mother. marius that begat aemand. magnus who begat leatat, lestat who begat louis, and on and on and on. florence louis paul grace. louis claudia lestat. louis armand daniel. the roles remixing each time, each time the children staring despondent at the dead face of the parent. that ghoulish empty apartment, an empty vessel eager to filled with its inhabitants’ confession. this interview as the culmination of the first confession, i am weak i want to die help me.

that morning sun over paul’s cracked skull at the birth of louis’ awakening, and louis on the bench waiting for the sun to bleach his bones and purify the putrid soul, and claudia taken by the gleaming noonday light. can you hear that? she’s calling me. and it is purifying. each time, human attachment eaten by the march of time, every sunrise and sunset. first a family and a job and human kind, in all it’s ugliness and joy. then a family. then and daughter and a lover. then, nothing. each time reborn, like a phoenix from ashes, with less and less. nothing but the recollection.

the interview as a suicide note. as the settling of affairs. as the will and testament. a testament to companionship, each and every companionship, each the mirror of the other. the last meeting between two dying old friends. the last love song between star crossed lovers. the last argument in a burnt out marriage. the last apology to a worn out daughter. the last i love you to a sick brother. the interview as the final night in the long dark night of louis de pointe du lac’s tortured soul.

the interview as another morning. another chapter. another try. trying to be good, to be honest, to be loving. hard love and soft love, trying to make it out holding onto something, the real something. the self, though shifting and broken. the self, alone but not lonely. the self, though reviled and worthy of death. i am weak. i wanna die. help me. louis couldn’t burn lestat. as long as you live i’ll never taste the fire. i lost time and then it was morning. i already know what my life will be like but i don’t want to rest. these words will lift you up and be your lifeline. funny thing is, when he said that to me he was already all burnt up.

anyway yeah i think my faggot vampire show and my dyke wizard book have a lot to talk about.

[savagewildnerness]

There’s really an awful lot of pondering on death & suicide & what it takes to endure existence in The Vampire Lestat… for all it’s viewed as a lighter book than Interview with the Vampire! Like, to the degree that every single main character is at some point either suicidal or wishes to die… or that actually happens. Even though the majority of them are immortal!

It’s making me wonder on this re-read, where I try to think about it more deeply, rather than just reading it - is an innate understanding of how difficult it is to endure/how easy it could be to just slip from existence a reason many of us initially loved this book? Is that Anne can articulate so well that desire to escape oneself & how it feels when that’s impossible one of the most important themes of the books?

Obviously, I’ve spoken about it often: I always associated with Nicolas a lot. Primarily due to how he perceives his own ability/experience of violin playing (I was 12. I definitely wasn’t then, nor am I now anywhere near as cynical as Nicolas….) but I don’t say it is *only* the violin & Nicolas’ music & how he feels to play and about his music that I associate with. Not least because in my opinion, how Nicolas perceives his own music is a reflection of how he perceives himself & how he perceives the world.

In any case, after my last night pondering on Armand’s internal desolation & the way he is actually most emptied of feeling when filled with some external source… yet that’s what he desires/needs because it is the only way he can feel safe… and he’d welcome death it feels if it came to him rather than him having to seek it, and going against God.

Well anyway, I haven’t read on yet, but I listened to the next bit on audiobook as I drive today. And it really struck me how delicate everyone’s mind & heart is.

Nicolas is actually like a fragile genius as a vampire - creating wildly creative, dark plays, articulating the horrors he feels are true (& thus creating Good Art Actually Lestat!) yet he cannot cope. But is it really *madness* that Nicolas screams of horrors in the streets to mortals; that he wants to create a league of vampires; that he wants humans to destroy them all; that he cannot bear it? It seems quite natural to me. Not mad really at all!

And Lestat too, gives himself over to death in despair. For all he talks of enduring, he would not have been able to rise this first time he went into The Earth, but for Marius saving him. And no wonder. He has lost everything. Lestat, talking on fate & how if we escape it, perhaps it waits for us.

It’s hard for me, as a friend died last week at a similar mortal age to Nicolas’ 30 years & this whole part is death & inability to cope with the simple Horror of existence. (Albeit; monstrous existence… but existence *is* monstrous as it is, right? Vampires are a fantastical representation of the very real & way more horrific in my opinion (as it can’t be contained in beautiful, sensual, philosophical vampires in reality…) truth of the actual horror of existence for us all.)

And Lestat speaking on fate reminds me too of Debbie. A girl I went to secondary school with. When she was 11 she got Lupus & her secondary school years were awful, but she endured. I didn’t keep in touch with her after school & her Uncle worked in aircraft engineering & got her a good job. But she survived Lupus in her teenage years, only for death to claim her at 23 in a totally unrelated way… as if it had always just lain in wait. She had escaped it, but then fate waited for her.

I don’t know where I’m going with this. I kind of want to create a poll, but I’ve just made myself laugh out loud at what that poll would be - like something like *Did your wee tween self relate to the self-immolatory desires of vampires?* Nice cheery question for a Monday!

I don’t mean it in a depressing way though. We can talk about The Horrors, while allowing joy & fun & play & amusement & silliness & innocence & childlikeness, right? Can we? I am not sure what I’m getting at…?

But this part is hard for me to read right now. And yet cathartic always too. Because… we all feel it, right? Anne is expressing what we humans feel in our tiny existences too.

How to bear it? The overwhelmingness of that.

Right?

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hi, I hope you're having a good day :)

I have a question about Armand.

We know that he's using people to get out of the situationships he no longer wants to be in (like he, presumably, used Lestat to get out of the coven, Louis - to get out of the theater etc). What I don't understand is why. Why do it this way? Why can't he do all these things on his own? Is it because of his history prior to all these events (admittedly I don't know his story very well because I haven't read TVA yet)?

Hey dear!

Well, Armand was abducted at an early age, and then made to submit. He never really got to decide what happened after that. Even after being sent to Paris to lead the coven he was bound to the laws that were pushed upon him (and he had someone who came there with him, Allessandra, though I am not sure if we will see her in the show).

I think... he is afraid. Deep, deep down, I mean. He fears abandonment and the withdrawal of love so much he cannot bring the change he wants to see himself.

Only when another opportunity presents itself - Lestat, Louis, Daniel - then he invites that change and refocuses onto them.

Armand is no pushover. There is a legendary scene where he goes at Marius' door with a battle ax - and which then leads to Marius whipping him - and worshiping him (with "happy ending"):

"Master, I don't know what you're saying to me. I was never a saint, never, I don't claim to be a saint. I'm a wretched disrespectful and ungrateful being. Oh, I adore you. It's so delicious to be helpless and at your mercy."

I always felt this... exclamation in that scene encapsulates a lot of Armand, right there. Obviously not all of him. But...

He kind of willingly folds for those who show him love, and who he loves, in an effort to keep them. Which is not to say he cannot be a sly brat about it, because he very much can.

But he waits until there is another possibility for love at least before he risks what he has - and that is very much rooted in what he has experienced, yes. (And it is, ultimately, heartbreaking.)

[nightislandnoveltymug]

Lmaoo @monstersinthecosmos here u go!! IN RE THE PET ARMAND POST but not reblogging to add on because [looks at how much I wrote]. (The gist of the original post being, Marius' relationship with Armand is fundamentally different from that with e.g. Pandora and although he loves him, he does so in a far more paternalistic way and Armand is never his equal.)

Everything you said about Marius and fathers and parental relationships is so good, and this part, just, bingo: I think a lot about how his need for stoicism and humanity is probably also expressed with his need to be the paterfamilias. So I agree lmao!, I'm just here to ramble pointlessly to expand on some points you raised because I got excited!

Just jumping off from this: What’s interesting with Marius’s fledglings though is that he tends not to treat them as equals. ... Even once Armand is a vampire, he’s still not Marius’s equal, and Marius’s age and power are still held over him. 

I feel like Marius maybe didn't exactly know what he wanted Armand to be -- he had never so calculatedly picked out a prospective fledgling ahead of time before, and then had the time to mould them and prepare them for the job. And like, I say calculatedly, and it 100% was, he goes through that whole internal spiel on how an amnesiac orphan is perfect because they won't be missed lmao, but I still think he mis-calculated! I wonder if on some level he thought he wanted someone who would be his pupil at first but would then 'graduate' from that state, who would challenge him, someone he could have an equal exchange of ideas with, because that sounded nice in theory -- but when it came right down to it, he would find the transition between states difficult.

Of course the 'transition', for him and Armand, was the Covens destroying their life together and Marius then meeting Armand centuries later as an 'adult' vampire, a figure of power in his own right, who had been a leader of others, and who had grown into that role completely outside of Marius' influence (indeed, by espousing an ideology Marius hated).

So it's possible that if that hadn't happened, and Marius had been able to 'train' Armand in vampirism for a few years more, he would have been better able to let go of him as a pupil and begin to see him as a former pupil, and a full-fledged (ha) immortal, and an adult. It's possible. But I'm not entirely sure he would be able to, in actual practice. This is kind of related to this thing you said, for me: By never seeing Armand as a complete person, Marius never has to feel threatened by him. We see this in toxic parents a lot. Like, I want you to be good, but I’m insecure if you’re better than me.

I think that's so true!! But also, miscalculation again, I feel like he went into this with a too optimistic assessment of his own ability to be secure in himself when under constant scrutiny by another person who -- because Marius picked Amadeo in part for those qualities!!! -- was alert and highly intelligent and would form his own judgments! He hoped that with a 'blank slate' (a very young boy with amnesia) he could avoid the thing which had always been the problem with e.g. Pandora, namely that she held different views from him, and would not be swayed. (B&G: I remembered my own long ago reflection on the promise of a virgin, that one could make of a virgin what one wished without price. etc) Amadeo retaining as much of the values and 'ideology' of his home as he did was something Marius hadn't anticipated, I think -- much less the almost aloof and patronising attitude Amadeo took towards him sometimes!

I think it may also be important here that Marius hadn't lived this close with anyone since Pandora, and then Mael and Avicus for a while, and he couldn't handle it with them either lmao. He's the king of self-isolating, both emotionally and geographically, and he's had centuries to get used to never being Perceived! And I think he really thought that he would be able to handle it because Amadeo would be his pupil and Marius has so many centuries on him, surely nothing this human child could do could faze him. But then this literal teenager's perceptions and opinions kept getting under his skin! I guess what I'm saying is like: I absolutely think he saw Armand as a helpless, lovely thing he could dote on and feed and clothe and help to thrive, and be in charge of, and mould the way he wanted, and derive comfort from. Which while obviously not a 1:1 to how we think of a dog lol, has a lot of the same overtones as a relationship to a pet. But!, I also think Marius not only wasn't prepared for Armand's personality, I think he also failed to predict himself and his own responses. Like you also pointed out, he's never fully consistent.

Moving on a bit: to the part about the Covens' kidnapping of Armand being perceived by Marius almost as harming him more: you know me, I will never shut up about these two bits from B&G!!

And here lay the proof now that he had not destroyed my beautiful child, rather he had made of him a victim. He had won him over; he had taken Amadeo to himself! He had more utterly defeated me than I had ever dreamt. // "They starved our Amadeo," I said, "they tortured him. This is plain here. And when he had given up all hope, believing me to be dead, and believing their piety to be just, he became one of them."

Because this is the only thing where I'm like WELL ACKSHULLY lmao -- it isn't even that he didn't know what was done to Armand! I think he just... wasn't fully able to take the consequences of knowing. Which ofc just underscores what you said about him not seeing Armand fully as an equal but more as a part of his household/as one of his dependants, because like, if this had been Pandora, who had been tortured?? Marius is already rearing to go because Raymond Gallant told him that he heard from some random vampire that Arjun was abusive to Pandora! But when it's Armand... obviously not to say that he cares less or he loves him less, but suddenly it becomes an extension of the attack on his person, rather than an outrage against someone he loves.

(And yeah, tbh it's entirely possible that him seeing Armand as like, not a full autonomous person does 'redirect' Marius' anger -- away from Armand and onto Santino instead; that if he did see Armand as a full equal, he would be angry with him, for joining the covens. But I think even there, he slips up a little, because he clearly is angry with him for it! And he's trying to reel it back into the parameters he's set up, where it wasn't Armand's fault that he got caught up in the Marius-Santino duel and he couldn't help it. But he never quite succeeds, and the hurt bleeds into their present-day relationship I think, without Marius ever being willing to acknowledge that that's what it is. Super healthy!! I love vampires.)

[nightcolorz]

There is something clearly unhealthy and immature about Marius inserting himself into Armand's every meaningful relationship with anyone else.

Yes, he helped Daniel in a crisis situation, but it seems like it could have done without the romantic subtext, right?

Then he became the maker of Benji and Sybelle. And this is the strongest connection, although he had nothing to do with these people 💀

It’s like he’s tying Armand to himself, isn’t it? He takes all his close people. Marius is literally everywhere.

While Armand himself is obviously trying to learn to live independently, without Marius and his influence.

Armand remains trapped in his power. He is afraid of loneliness, and all the people closest to him are attached to Marius for various reasons.

This thought makes me despair. Armand is still dependent on Marius. And, apparently, he's always will be.

Justice for Armand in a show, where Daniel will be on his side, without a sense of duty to Marius for taking care 🤞🏻

AGREED ITS SO FUCKED!!

It feels so insidious, like it comes off like Marius is intentionally sinking his teeth into Armand’s loved ones so that he will be inescapably a part of his life. It reminds me of how abusers r often family members the victims r regularly forced to interact with, but instead of this being inherent to the dynamic Marius is putting himself in those roles to be closer to Armand. I’m not sure that he’s doing that specifically with that goal, but I feel like it has to be at least subconscious.

I always think about how with Benji and sybelle, it seems like his only motivation is to insert himself into Armand’s life in a way that deprives him of agency or authority. He’s literally taking away his children by *making himself the father* and he’s taking away Armand’s agency to make choices for them by making the choice for him and then patiently explains to him like he’s a dumb child that marius just knows better and this was for their own good.

He basically does the same with Daniel, he takes in Daniel when he’s vulnerable and then isolates him from Armand so that Armand doesn’t get to be a part of his life anymore. It’s very parent of a teen mom deciding to raise the kids cuz the mom is too immature, but instead of a teen mom it’s a grown adult who continues to be treated by the parent like he’s too immature to have any relationship that isn’t being directed and controlled by Marius.

back to Benji and sybelle, smth that’s rlly upsetting to me about that plot line is how Marius begins initiating that dynamic by patiently inviting Armand to his house to reconnect with seemingly no strings or pressure attached, and Armand is very hesitant to open himself up to marius for understandable reasons so he is very distant and none responsive to this offer. And so since Armand isn’t budging, marius offers to help him out by looking after his kids, and Armand agrees to that and it’s kind of an olive branch where Armand is allowing himself to trust Marius by allowing him to be alone with his loved ones. And Marius takes that opportunity and decides to inescapably tie Armand to him by inserting himself into his family dynamic and ruining everything Armand has built by making it his own 😭😭 it’s so fucked, and it seems like such a direct reaction to Armand being distant and hesitant to open up to him

I think Marius does all this partly cuz he’s scared to loose Armand, and partly bcus he sees Armand as his biggest mistake who should have never existed, and in that feels responsible for controlling his life/“taking care of him” so that he doesn’t “cause any harm” that Marius would be responsible for. It’s also definitely an insecurity thing. I think Marius is insecure seeing that Armand is fine without him while Marius (guy who should be the “strong one” in the relationship) can’t stop thinking about him, so he tries to take control of Armand and revert back to their old dynamics so that he can validate his own power + validate his belief that Armand needs him

[rosesocietyy]

@dictee's bonus question; I don't have the range to tackle it in full cause I haven't read the vampire armand but I do want to zero in on how attitudes of victim blaming can be internalized; one aspect of it at least, guided by what's been shown in the series, and extend it to Louis too.

I believe that's inevitable when a relationship is connoted by religiosity.

or at least the specific brand I'm deeply deeply familiar with. The type that is built on the foundation of the unquestionable. What should be (way of life, how to move through the world they've brought them into) is determined by the all-knowing creator and there's an expectation that the creations should follow for their own good or reap the consequences of defiance.

I love deliberate use of language when describing the maker-fledgling relationship. Divinity is obviously ascribed to the maker, and the fledgling is ensnared in almost helpless reverence and servitude.

"But there was present, a kind of worship on my part"

"I served him with all my heart. Basked in his mercy, his worshipful mercy."

Given the life they endured prior to encountering their makers it's easy to see why Louis and Armand are vulnerable to the entrapments of devoutness.

Being the only beings at the gate to usher Louis and Armand into this new reality, the makers are given the opportunity to conceptualize vampirism. Define what should be

These are the coven rules and they must be followed

This is how you're meant to hunt

This is how you're meant to feel about and behave toward humanity

In turn, that gets internalized

I was sent to lead the Paris coven and I did so by rigidly upholding the laws

I'm a fumbling, botched, vampire for not feeding the way he expects me to

Maybe this cruelty to humanity and our kind is the nature of our species and we'll eventually end up like him in time

Well it's the vampire bond you see, there's just no human equivalent so you wouldn't understand, it's the way of things

That's really the crux of the danger. They love these beings who they perceive to be all-knowing, whose authority they have to defer and cede to (manifested differently of course). The love they receive in return is encompassing and ardous, and harrowing as it is, it's understandable why they may think it's supposed to be. The creator's hand is a guiding hand, and if that guide has to be through force then so be it. When I'm straying and being rebellious and difficult, he's just acting accordingly and in his nature to make sure his beloved is keeping in line. After all if they spare the rod, the child gets rotten.

Louis doesn't see himself as a victim. It's not entirely clear yet but I don't think armand sees himself as one either, at least not in that context. And maybe they never will, but they recognize that pain distinctly and carry it heavily with them. The identity issues, the complicated struggle with power, the voice and image of lestat that can never seem to completely fade, the works of marius hung on the walls of their home. In a way I guess they'll always feel like they've failed their gods, religious trauma 101

[loustat-0]

Not sure why we need to perpetuate this lie that people think loumand is healthy. Been in this fandom for two years and I’ve never seen anyone say it even once. Maybe that’s how they’re living on Twitter but not here.

1. None of the ships are quite healthy in TVC . Not from what I've read so far . But maybe people mistake Loumand being more understanding and more calm to be less toxic ? That's not how it is to me . Because Armand had so many benefits that Lestat didn't have with Louis . Armand had nothing to hide from Louis , Armand wasn't threatened by Marius to be destroyed if he said anything about their kind and their origins , Marius literally told Lestat to go live like a human and gave him sets of rules and told him if he breaks them he would definitely find him and kill his fledglings and himself . And more importantly ARMAND COULD READ LOUIS'S MIND . Of course he knew what Louis wanted to give it to him . Of course there was no dark gift between them so that Louis hates him too of course Louis believed Armand wasn't withholding anything until Madeline of course . And then Claudia and the fact that he never told Louis he imprisoned Lestat to get him to confess against Claudia . But again Armand wanted to save Louis and separate Lestat from him and he would do anything to make that happen .

2. Armand seems less toxic because he doesn't have those limits that Lestat had . Why do you think Armand was so opposite of turning Daniel ?? Because he knew once the dark gift is shared between them their love will disappear and it will make them resent each other or at least it will make Daniel resent him . And it actually did happen unfortunately , they fell apart after QOTD till prince Lestat . So the dark gift is such an important aspect that Armand and Louis are free of . And that's to their benefit . People say Armand was also a good listener to Louis yes I agree but Lestat became a good listener too if Louis's words weren't always triggering him . Louis always triggered him . It's also the same on the show , we saw Lestat talk a lot but he also listened too . Unless Louis was triggering him with something he hated to talk about which is also understandable .

3. Now I don't know how the show will handle Loumand but I hope they keep these factors in mind but even if they didn't we can't do much about it 😉

[casually-slips-into-coma]

spoilers for iwtv s2e4

my thoughts after a rewatch:

i know claudia hates the baby loves window play but she ate up that little song

the lulu role really is so humiliating :(

louis’ expressions whenever he watches these plays always kills me lmao he hates theater kids

louis and armand talking over each other to daniel

armands theater notes lol

claudia no eyebrow big eyeliner look is kinda cunty ngl

im a fan of sam the irish vampire

making claudia be lulu all the time oooh armand i hate u so bad

almost threw up watching louis and armand give different answers to the companion question IN FRONT OF THE COVEN that shit was so embarrassing

i wouldve kms if i was armand

vamp catfight

armand stuck in this situationship dont worry king we’ve all been there😔

literally telling each other i love you and still having the what are we conversation

“do you notice how hot the room gets when you two talk about the secret” plsssss

louis only able to use the fire gift when hes angry👀👀 gee i wonder if thats gonna come back👀👀👀👀👀

louis going🤨🤨 to the schizophrenia question like it came out of nowhere

armands face while louis talked about dreamstat why not just shoot me in the head

loving these dutch angles whenever daniel dissociates and gets an armand memory

santiago looks so good in the gold suit? robe thing??

claudia santiago friendship is killing me santiago i know what u are

claudia killing the guy singing baby lu

i like that you can tell claudias french has gotten better. nice small detail

i love scenes of louis and claudia just talking about non vampire things

santiago mimicking louis was pretty cool

buffoon sighting!!!

whole dinner scene bangs

the guy saying theres smth “fragile” about armand in the photo louis took and louis saying “no he’s anything but” and then the guy saying “you’ve captured the soul he hides” 🤌🤌

louis would never survive a 4 hour art school critique

daniel telling a girl he’d only do her if she had a paper bag over her head??????

claudeline truthers how are we feeling

context for the eating paper clip in the trailer

romeo!!

armand is so down bad its sick

madeline tailoring a yellow dress for claudia😟😟

the whole claudeline interaction was great

amadeo☹️🔫

MARIUS KILL YOURSELF!!!!!!!

the way armand talks about marius

MARIUS KILL YOURSELF x2!!!!!!

“no one has painted me in 400 years” fuck

madeline period blood moment. theres so much here about femininity and maturing might make a separate post about this scene

armand pinning claudia against a wall armand i hate you so bad

we already know that armand is powerful but seeing him choke and manhandle santiago really solidified that i think

picked another one over me!!

delainey is ACTINGGGGG

louis not believing claudia about armand ooooh louis i hate you so bad

love makes you stupid clock it

louis still referring to claudia as his daughter in his head (thru dreamstat)

louis just actively talking to himself girl do that in your head

park bench moment <3

“wanker” i giggled sorry

that suit is his favorite on him :(

“im a little wet” and armand instantly pulling out an umbrella, armand lighting his cigarette, armand calling him maitre

louis calling him arun and armand calling him maitre and then louis throwing away the lighter this fucking scene is cinematic art

the other coven members calling santiago maitre

i kinda like that daniel can hear them arguing from another room. i feel like its a very human experience? really domestic? even given the circumstances

armands eyes were never brown!!!

san francisco flashback episode might kill me im not kidding

insane way to end the episode

ok this was much longer than i thought it would be but this episode has a lot in it. each episode gets better and better and this is definitely my favorite of the season so far.

i am LOVING louis and armands relationship and also both of their story arcs and characterizations. their dynamic is kind of the opposite of what i, and i think a lot of other people, expected but it still makes total sense and im enjoying it a lot

god i love this show

[monstersinthecosmos]

Marius considers Armand the main mistake of his life

Do you think he would turn him into a vampire again if he could go back in time?

!!!!!!!!!! the easy answer to this is yes of course because he's a person trapped in a cycle who makes the same mistakes over and over 😂

but! the deeper answer here is that I don't agree that Marius considers Armand a mistake!!!!!!!!!

I think he regrets the way Armand was turned and regrets that he didn't take care of Santino when he had the chance. I think he spent 500 years feeling like he failed Armand, and so the content of the actual mistake is not Armand himself, but the circumstances around him and wishing things had been different in Venice.

This is the part in TVL where Marius says he fucked up with Armand -

"Whatever will happen will happen, but choose your companions with care. Choose them because you like to look at them and you like the sound of their voices, and they have profound secrets in them that you wish to know. In other words, choose them because you love them. Otherwise you will not be able to bear their company for very long. "

"I understand, " I said. "Make them in love. "

"Exactly, make them in love. And make certain they have had some lifetime before you make them; and never never make one as young as Armand. That is the worst crime I have ever committed against my own kind, the taking of the young boy child Armand. "

"But you didn't know the Children of Darkness would come when they did, and separate him from you. "

"No. But still, I should have waited. It was loneliness that drove me to it. And Armand's helplessness, that his mortal life was so completely in my hands. Remember, beware of that power, and the power you have over those who are dying. Loneliness in us, and that sense of power, can be as strong as the thirst for blood. “

So like obviously AR retconned Armand's backstory a bit over time, like this version of events doesn't say Marius did it because Armand got stabbed and was dying lol, but I think there's still a throughline between this and TVA and B&G about how Marius was trying to wait, and in waiting kept changing his mind until his hand was forced.

And don't forget that during the Venice era he was also painfully in love with both Botticelli and Bianca, and he used Armand as a rebound from them. He was going off of Eudoxia's advice to pick someone he could groom for vampirism, and he picked a traumatized teenager who could be a blank slate.

He changed his mind almost immediately though! He loved Armand! He knew he couldn't do this to him, but also began to realize he'd sort of ruined Armand for regular life anyway, and it was inevitable!

So I think like, in any version of events, or if he had the chance to do things differently, the common denominator of crushing loneliness would push him to it anyway, and he loved Armand anyway. He wanted to keep Armand. I just wonder if he'd try to prepare him better and let him live longer, and take care of the coven so that they wouldn't ruin Armand's life.

And the thing about time loops & time travel that we see in storytelling all the time is that things are sometimes inevitable. Like, Marius can go back in time and try to keep Armand from dating Harlech, but he can't do anything about it during the day, and Armand is going to do it anyway. Armand isn't going to listen!

And when I think about what parts of Armand's personality are innate and what's The Trauma it's like, we talk all the time about how they're immortal and have all the time in the world to heal, so who's to say that Armand won't be okay one day! And would the Marius of 2112 risk a change like this if Armand is happy and okay and their relationship is good?

Because even if he waited and turned Armand a little older and they had more time together, and eventually get to a good place, is it worth the risk to lose the GOOD things they've built together, or that have happened because of Armand? Like without Armand, would Marius have Daniel? Would he even have Lestat? Would he have ever been freed from TWMBK?

There's a fluffy version of time travel where you go back and fix something and everything is okay LOL so we ultimately come back to the classic topic of Marius loving selfishly vs selflessly--would he ever decide his loneliness is worth the 300 years of pain that Armand went through? Or are we dealing with the type of time travel that says some things are inevitable, and the lesson of the story is that you can't change it without losing something?

And how would ARMAND even feel about it? Armand takes his immortality like a champ and while he has big cosmic feelings about it sometimes, he doesn't complain. He feels love. He still fears death like everyone else. Is this a risk he'd even consent to? Would he turn in his own damnation for death? Is his death, and the gift of being freed from a curse worth missing out on his love of Lestat and Louis and Daniel and Benji & Sybelle?

THERE'S JUST SO MANY WAYS IT COULD GO WRONG LIKE IS IT EVEN WORTH IT IDK

JUST THE BRIEFEST OVERVIEW WITH A FEW SIMPLE OPTIONS, THIS HAS INFINITE SPACE TO GROW TBH

I love time travel as a topic LMAO I keep daydreaming about ways to write time travel VC fic!!!!! I love it for Sheith fandom but it's easier to incorporate because it's sci-fi. But I think as a storytelling vehicle it always tries to tell us to stick with the devil we know. I think I'm getting carried away with my nerd topic and straying from your question LMAO but this is how I'm pondering.

I'd also ask if SANTINO would do things differently. If he'd leave Armand alone!!!!!!!!! And I'll stop here because, like I said, the space on the chart is infinite and you could talk all day because what if Santino hadn't acted like a cunt, what if Marius didn't feel that TWMBK were threatened by cults, what if there had been even the slightest peace in the vampire community where Marius didn't have to feel like the sole keeper, how different would his life have been, would he have even still needed Armand, etc etc etc etc

So yeah I think he'd do it again. :)

And I mean.

He turned Benji.

Soooooooooooooo idk if he learned a lesson about turning children. SHRUG.

[slapjacq]

there’s about to be a slew of thoughts coming from me for this very last episode probably over the next few days, but I’m gonna put them out as such.

For starters:

The funniest part about the ending of this episode was the fact that Louis’ response to everyone talking the most insane amount of shit was truly, in the most American response possible: aight bet pull up then pussy you won’t

A true man after my own heart

Like talk your shit Louis good for you man. I can’t lie wasn’t the smartest thing to do but at least he’s standing on business and I gotta respect that

Generally watching him just plow through the coven and let loose was actually incredible. Like yes girl you didn’t need to leave Paris, you needed to wrong all the mfs that wronged you. Sometimes you just need to open up a can of whoopass and by god did he do that. Santiago’s death was deeply satisfying. I’m happy my blue eyed pretty boy got to use the talents his mama gave him to really read a bitch to filth.

Watching him get back to his roots and rock that post divorce glow was everything, and as someone who has moved from a city to a much different place, the feeling of your city’s air is something that resonated with me so much. I saw someone’s post say something about that already, but I digress. His redecorating of his apartment in Dubai, his “bitch try my me I’m a new man” feel is truly incredible look on him, always and forever routing for Louis DPDL

On top of that Jacob’s work with Sam in the reunion scene is EVERYTHING

Speaking of Sam Reid:

“Siri pause” took me out. I think I was laughing on the floor for twenty minutes. 10/10 comedy gold. I adore Lestat in the modern world and can’t wait to see more of it.The scene in the shack moved me to tears. Lestat better be haunted by Claudia. It would almost be out of character for him not to be. Sam does such an incredible job really giving us Lestat’s guilt. The longing between them, the whole idea of actually seeing Lestat for the first time ever was genuinely wonderful.

Also his scenes in flashback to Paris post trial were also, and I mean dripping with Lestatian emotion.

A part that stuck out to me though, as satisfying as it was, even though I love my doe eyed gremlin, it almost sounded like Armand was regressing back into that scared little kid who was terrified of loosing everyone again, WHICH MIGHT BE A REASKN WHY he turned Daniel, but I’ll hop on my soapbox later about that. Anyways I’m not saying I feel total empathy for the fucker, but it was a little bit sad to hear what I would imagine how some of the conversations/negotiations went with Marius. Genuinely kind of sad but BABY GIRL YOU NEEDED THAT ASS WHOOPING. Like this is all of his fault and by god even though I’m loving every minute of watching his ass get handed to him, I do feel bad for him to an extent. New season wish for Armand: get a therapist, try being single for a decade or two. Like I can’t actually believe that this idiot deluded himself into thinking that the rebound/revenge relationship was gonna be eternal. Like bitch be for real. Idk. Hope my little puppy eyed freak gets his shit together.

DANIEL. MY MAN, MY DUDE. His questions, pulling Louis from the slowly whirring current of Armand’s manipulation was so fucking masterful and cheeky, like they really showed us first hand the reason as to why the man’s got two Pulitzer. And then his turning???? Like he really showed that twink how fucking fascinating he was within a month, ruined an 80 year marriage, and most likely fucked and was turned by the same dude he was out for blood for. No one is doing it like Daniel Molloy. I’m putting money down now that he looked through the paramours file off screen, and knew the advantage was his. I don’t think we’re gonna get a lot of information on that until season 3, but I’m putting it down now. Also shoutout Daniel, the new vampire, live your best life big dawg, do the crazy shit you’ve always wanted to do. The man almost had a post coital glow with the amount of swagger he carried compared to when he was a jaded human. Just generally, Eric fucking crushed it this season. This man is gonna have so much fun next season. Like idk what god or entity I have to bargain with to ensure Eric Bogosian actually lives forever because his characterization of Daniel is actually so spectacular.

This goes for everyone too by the way: EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, knocked it out of the fucking park this season. Genuinely spectacular. I am going to continue to dickride this show so fucking hard in the coming future because all of this effort and all this show-stopping work should not only be seen by just a decently sized community of little freaks but by everyone because every single person on the cast and crew deserve nothing but love and recognition for what they have done with the franchise so far.

Also shout out Sam, we love to see a bad bitch escape with his life.

Can’t wait to see what bullshit he’s got going in 2026

[devilsminion-armandaniel]

apologies if you've been asked this already, but im curious what your hopes are for dm in the show (in terms of happened in the past/will happen in the future/both/secret fourth option(?) and what you think is most likely to actually happen, if those arent the same thing

(it turned into a pretty long post when I had it all typed out, sorry.) I think my hopes are pretty much in line with what I expect the show to do. I definitely think we're getting Past Devil's Minion. it's been hinted at in promo too much for us not to see Luke again. Luke did a lot of promo to begin with for a one episode character, especially if we wouldn't see him again for the rest of the series. Compared to Madeline who was in more episodes. Now, you could argue Luke is better know, but I don't think Luke is anywhere near a household name. We have seen all three them of them talk about Young Daniel. Eric wants to see Luke do a scene with his ex wife/ex-wives, Assad wants a threesome scene where Daniel and Luke merge into each other. And Luke would like it if Alice was Armand. I think if Young Daniel was a closed chapter the actors would be discouraged from talking about it, as to not raise fandom expectations the show had zero plans on filling. Not to mention we had Vampire Sam at the big opening of the season 2 and we had Luke there as well. No other TdV actor was there, only the 'big' characters and actors. And where we haven't seen much of Vampire Sam yet, we will be seeing him again in S3. So, I think Luke being there and pairing him up with Assad for promo was a deliberate choice. There are some things in the show itself that also make me more sure that Young Daniel will return. We know old Daniel has a faulty memory and that he is still missing pieces. And that he also doesn't remember everything properly from how thinks it went. His own auto-biography isn't a correct story, as highlighted by Louis being the stranger he once met. Memory is the monster. Daniel feeling freer in Paris to hold 'Alice' hands, Armand triggering Daniel's memories. Raglan knowing Armand wouldn't harm Daniel. Armand caring about Daniel enough to stop Louis from hurting him, from crossing lines, offering comfort and apologies. None of that makes a lot of sense if they weren't something at some point in the past. Especially because Jacob said in an interview that after San Francisco Armand and Louis kind of went their own way, where they didn't always check up on each other. Armand, according to Daniel, would disappear for long stretches of time in the book, which could easily be during the chase. Armand going from Daniel to Louis and back. We also don't really know much about Louis' past and if Armand was always there. Nor do we know when Armand discovered he could walk in the sun. We have a good 50 years of 'nothing' that we still need to see. We still have to learn when and why Louis believed Lestat was dead and murdered by him and Claudia. Or when Louis found out Claudia hated him. And when he forgot about that. Why did Louis stop killing in 2000. What happened that made him want to change. Who did he kill? If we still have to get all that knowledge I have to assume, there is knowledge in those years that we also need about Armand, Lestat and Daniel. So, I guess, I always simply look at the book as being slightly altered but not much. Past DM is still the QoTD chapter bare the turning which is now their separation. And instead of Daniel going mad and being with Marius, the show aged him, gave him wives and daughters. The present is the show's version of the Prince Lestat trilogy. When they reunite. Anne never wrote those scenes out, so the show has a lot of freedom to decide how to go about this. And I think with this set up, Devil's Minion can be the best couple on tv in a very long time. With all the drama, love, lust, longing, fighting, toxicity and warmth, that only they can have. With the whirlwind rollarcoaster romance and the heartbreaking separation of the past, to the challenging, yearned for, longed for, painful, healing and hopeful reunion. I'm not psychic though, but i do really hope this is the direction they are going in, it's the one I would pick and I think it's the one that will have the highest success rate storywise.