#Alecto and John mirror Harrow and Gideon

[multifunctionalnitroglycerin]

Poe’s Annabel Lee in TLT #2

You thought I'd never post it huh? Well about a month later, here is the beast. Enjoy!

We have already delved into the most obvious parallel that the TLT books create, between John and Alecto and the heroes of Poe’s Annabel Lee. I would like to now draw some comparisons between Gideon and Harrow and Annabel Lee. This might seem a bit far-fetched, because how can John and Alecto AND Gideon and Harrow exist in the same premise within Poe’s lines?

The answer is simple. They don’t. Contradictory, I know, but a lot of that comparison and many of those parallels stem from the fact that those two pairings themselves are reflections of one another. Or perhaps picture negatives. After all, what John and Alecto had, stems from love, and it is plainly stated – as plainly as all things in Muir’s writing are, at least – whereas the beginning of Gideon and Harrow’s relationship sprouts from unadulterated loathing. We learn afterward of course that this is not really the case, what with Gideon sacrificing herself in an act she perceived as the only act of Love, she could offer to Harrow and whatnot. But the parallels are there. And it is deliberate, for John and Alecto broke the world, and Gideon and Harrow will remake it – or die trying. Muir has a wonderful way of interweaving elements in the plot and creating comparisons, parallels, and antitheses between the countless colorful dynamics in the books. So, I feel where John and Alecto broke the world, and are going to -probably – die, Gideon and Harrow will step up and mirror them, bringing hope back to the world. As @local-selkie said, the series probably won’t end without hope. Hope for reconciliation, for fixing what has been irrevocably broken, hope for breaking circles and hope for a better tomorrow. (Yeah well, I may be a cynic, but I am human above all, and if there is one thing that humans yearn for, live for and fight for, it’s hope. Naïve, childish, hope. It’s what makes us better, I think)

Onto drawing a few parallels now,

It was many and many a year ago

In a kingdom by the sea

That a maiden there lived whom you may know

by the name of Annabel Lee

Not really much to say about this one. Our story for these two starts about twenty years ago, in far off Pluto – well, the Ninth – with the salty ass underground (might point to there having been saltwater there at some point) where Wake collapsed dead, and a wailing Gideon was found. Harrow had not yet been born, and frankly neither of them would be what one would call a fair maiden.

And this maiden she lived with no other thought

than to love and be loved by me

I was a child and she was a child

In this Kingdom by the Sea

Here I feel we could consider this a reference to the shared childhoods of our heroines. The lonely, shared childhood of our heroines. For there were no other children on the Ninth, and they bitterly clung to each other with all they had. Even if it means beating each other into a pulp within an inch of their lives. Because Harrow was a child, and Gideon was a child on the far off Ninth, where there were no other children, and all they had was each other and their rivalry. So, I can see the whole “she lived with no other thought” than finding a way to make each other’s life hell. And as we see going forward in the books, that was all they could do to love each other, the only way they knew how.

But we loved with a love that was more than love— 

I and my Annabel Lee;

With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven  

Coveted her and me.

We loved with a love that was more than love, we loved with a love that felt like hatred, with a devotion that felt like abandonment, because Gideon could think of no greater act of love than sacrificing herself for Harrow, than letting Harrow consume her, and Harrow could think of no fate worse than that. Harrow loved Gideon so much the greatest act of service, of devotion, of love she could think to offer to her ill-matched cavalier was to spare her, to let her live. And they both failed spectacularly at that, but oh well. Angst.

As for the analogue to the seraphs, this is a bit trickier than John and Alecto. Because for them it’s obvious it’s the rest of the Lyctors, the Lyctors that couldn’t compete with John’s monster cavalier, the Lyctors that could never achieve their perfect connection. But who could it be that covets the connection between Harrow and Gideon? I think to be able to imagine an answer to that we should take a step away from the narrative and look at them from everyone else’s perspective. For the Niners it’s a no brainer. They know Gideon, they know Harrow, they would never think of a worthy connection between the two as highlighted by Crux’s words in NtN (and goodness if that didn’t hurt). But what about the Canaan House? Contrary to Harrow’s insecurities and paranoia, to the external observer they do present a united front. The two black clad nuns of the Ninth, with their veils and their disconcerting face paint, with their creepy/ damning/ borderline heretical prayer, the tiny unhinged necro, and the huge, silent Cav that disarmed Magnus in three moves, that seem so in sync it’s almost uncanny (“Death first to vultures and scavengers - AN ICON). So, I could see, the rest of the people in Canaan House at least envying their connection a bit, (if they haven’t already figured them out – like Pal and Ianthe), at least at first glance. And then there is ofc SYLAS OCTAKISERON, (I hate him, I am sorry, but if I could stick him headfirst to the ground I would). The Eighth generally isn’t that fond of the Ninth so no surprise there.  I am rly not sure how the OG Lyctors would feel abt them but if you have any ideas feel free to share.

 And this was the reason that, long ago,

 In this kingdom by the sea,

A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling 

My beautiful Annabel Lee;

So that her highborn kinsman came  

And bore her away from me,

To shut her up in a sepulchre 

 In this kingdom by the sea.

The angels, not half so happy in heaven,

Went envying her and me—

Yes!—that was the reason (as all men know,   In this kingdom by the sea)

That the wind came out of the cloud by night, 

Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee.

Alright, so as I mentioned before, this is where the tone shifts to something more chilly, if you will. No more fairytale notions – as much as Gideon and Harrow can be perceived as a fairytale. But if we want to be particular abt Gideon and Harrow’s timeline this is the exact point where Harrow makes herself a mausoleum for one more soul, Gideon. (The pain though). I know that at first, I interpreted kingdom by the sea as the Ninth, for Gideon and Harrow, but here I think it is safe to assume that it is referencing earth again, aka the First, where the final showdown for GtN is taking place. The highborn kingsman, I think again references the Lyctors only this time we are talking Cytherea, that forced Gideon’s hand, in sacrificing herself and Harrow partly consuming her. And now Gideon is a part of Harrow, locked away in her - soon to be lobotomized - temporal lobe.

And obviously Harrow aches for Gideon, for she never wanted this to be her fate. She consumed her out of necessity, not out of want. It is the process of Lyctorhood itself that comes and takes Gideon from Harrow, that causes this painful sacrifice, and has her clutching at whatever remnants of Gideon she has, as hard as possibly, with no plan whatsoever, but to preserve her, thus rendering Gideon’s sacrifice pointless.

But our love it was stronger by far than the love  

Of those who were older than we—  

Of many far wiser than we—

And neither the angels in heaven above, 

 Nor the demons down under the sea,

Can ever dissever my soul from the soul 

 Of the beautiful Annabel Lee:

And this is Lyctorhood ala Harrow. Aka rendering the whole procedure useless, because you love your cavalier so much you cannot bear the thought of killing and consuming them. (Or well, Lyctorhood ala Ninth House, because Anastasia attempted preserving Samael first. I mean we can see that the Ninth Necros love their cavs too much – They literally both went, Immortality and immense power? No, thanks, I don’t want it without my cav by my side. They’re both ambitious enough to try, however, and we saw what that cost them).  I think that this part works as a foreshadow for Gideon and Harrow in the future, (for a hopeful future) as well as it is the part with the closest parallel to Alecto and John. Because part of Alecto is in Harrow and part of Gideon is John, and their love is enough that Gideon kills herself for Harrow, no regrets, and the stubborn, little, malnourished nunlet lobotomizes herself to spare Gideon being consumed into nothingness. So yes, their love transcended that of the other Lyctors and their cavs, because they refused to make the sacrifice, because they loved each other so much they found a way to at least stop the procedure, instead of just ling down and taking it (well Harrow did, Gideon was ready to die for her. And again. How Gideon thinks so little of herself she thinks she is better off as a sacrificial lamb, and Harrow in her endless guilt just refuses to let her – masterful and painful in equal measure. They both feel betrayed, because the other didn’t let them die, but wanted them to live.

As for the never severing the souls, I have two words for you. Perfect Lyctorhood. (Just an idea, but we’ll see)

For the moon never beams, without bringing me dreams 

Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;

And the stars never rise, but I feel the bright eyes  

Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;

And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side

Of my darling—my darling—my life and my bride, 

 In her sepulchre there by the sea, 

In her tomb by the sounding sea.

            Dreams of the beautiful Annabel Lee, like the coffee-shop au dream/hallucination Harrow has? Like the constant nightmares where her brain glitches replacing Gideon with Ortus?

            I must admit that this part to me also highlights the connection between Harrow – Anastasia’s Line – and Alecto. Because we meet Alecto through the dreams, because Harrow sees Alecto in her sleeping and wakeful hours, because in the dream Harrow is Alecto and Alecto is Harrow.

The bright eyes of the beautiful Annabel Lee, Alecto’s golden eyes, Gideon’s  golden eyes, and Harrow’s own dark ones, that while not bottomless pits are pretty dark in their own measure. Now the lying down next to my beautiful Anabel Lee part, is… tricky for those two. I honestly don’t have many ideas abt it. I can picture it as Kiriona and Harrow sitting next to one another in the Tomb, and together undoing what has been done, and then having their happy ending, but that’s as far as it goes.  If we take the idea that Harrow is the mausoleum in which Gideon’s soul is preserved, I can imagine that the whole thing will happen in the River. Perhaps from an access point on the Ninth, but literally this part is the one I most struggle to interpret.

Of course, we also need to take the biblical connections into account, and those biblical connections are in large why there are so many parallels between the two pairings. You have God and his offspring, that sacrifices herself, you have Harrow, who in a sense is also Christ going down in Hades in the days before the resurrection, and you have Alecto. John is Gideon and Harrow is Alecto and it’s a glorious mess.  We have parallels in a love that transcends all that was known before, we have it starting from what is perceived as hate but in reality, is the last strings of their sanity sticking together, with a few sprinkles of codependence. And again, is that love truly as beautiful as it appears?

We do tend to romanticize it a lot in the fandom, but ultimately, it’s a story about grief and loss. Harrow’s story is abt grief and loss and guilt. The future of the ninth was sacrificed for her to be born, her whole planet will be lost if she doesn’t find some way to help it, she has already lost so much and sacrificed so much to be where she is, and the last straw is Gideon’s death and coming back as Kiriona. And Gideon, Gideon that was born alone on the ninth that no one wanted, no one paid attention to but Harrow – Harrow who made her life a living hell yes, but Harrow who talked to her, even if it was just to exchange insults. Gideon abandoned by the world, that loved Harrow and harrow abandoned her too, in choosing not to utilize her sacrifice. Their stories are so interwoven with themes of love, loss, and grief, that the parallels are hard not to draw.

Anyhow, I am beat. I hope this makes sense. Feel free to add your own thoughts and comments, and don’t forget to take care of yourselves.

Till next time!

PS check out @katakaluptastrophy's post abt the descent of Christ/Harrow in Hades here.

It's spectacular, as usual (The articulation is so on point I cannot. I feel like a mad scientist reading a scholar's work every time). And perhaps with the Orthodox Easter approaching I might take the chance to revisit the scriptures myself.

And @fkapommel's post abt the duality of the Christ symbolism in Gideon and Harrow here.

I enjoyed this too much not to recommend it.

[dorkfruit]

its my day off so im drawing art thats for me only and a HtN x SAW crossover came to me in a vision from god so here are my thoughts on the matter

[beguilingcorpse]

the interesting thing about the second generation of lyctors in the locked tomb is that so far, they've all gone about lyctorhood completely differently, and to different results.

ianthe, in the tradition of the original lyctors (and the megatheorem as it was written), CONSUMED babs. naberius tern no longer exists in any individual sense. ianthe took him and absorbed him, fully and completely (and sometimes even pilots his body around, which really drives the point home). this is the lyctor, classic flavor. see also mercymorn and augustine.

i'm throwing in pyrrha and g1deon here even tho they aren't second gen because their dual-consciousness sitch deserves to be talked about. it was completely unintentional, and g-prime didn't even KNOW that pyrrha was still conscious inside him. g1deon achieved full lyctorhood regardless, but pyrrha in his body cannot.

palamedes and camilla, the beloveds, circumvented all of this, by nature of pal dying before the lyctoral process could begin and then being bubbled in the river. their back-door lyctorhood mirrors the dual-consciousness of g1deon and pyrrha, but neither had ascended until they joined souls and created an entirely new consciousness, full send, go loud.

and then gideon and harrow, who started down the Classic Flavor path until harrow willfully fucked it up and stopped the process - locking gideon in brain while fully conscious à la pyrrha and g1deon. unlike g+p, tho, their souls all got jerked around pre-ntn, and with some help from Papa Jod and alecto, gideon-as-kiriona is now back in her megadead body and harrow is finally back in hers.

if i had to hedge a guess, i'd say that if harrow fully ascends to lyctorhood in atn, it won't be via a method that we've seen before. there's a lot of language in the books about kiriona missing something, something that harrow presumably took during her truncated ascension. and unlike any the other necro/cav pairs, gideon is (more or less) still here as kiriona, in (more or less) her own body. the only pair to model this kind of lyctorhood are john and alecto: the base, the blueprint, lyctorhood in excelsis. john and alecto prove that there IS such a thing as perfect lyctorhood, that both parties CAN survive, the lyctorhood is not about consumption or even absorption but about an equal give and take - and gideon and harrow are currently perfectly poised to follow that path.

[lambentgrey]

something about the mirrored distorted timelines around love, grief, and rage that exist between gideon/kiriona and harrow, and between alecto and john.

it’s been a long time without their cavaliers for john and harrow, but a shorter time since harrow remembered losing gideon. likewise gideon has been aware of the time passing between her death and the present, while alecto wakes up finishing a sentence she began before john locked her in the tomb. in other words: john & gideon have known and felt their respective counterpart’s absence for the entire time of the separation, while harrow & alecto seem to be operating on an elasticated plane where they simultaneously know and don’t know how long they’ve been without gideon & john.

both halves of both pairs are on fundamentally different grief timelines from one another. how exquisitely devastating

[lady-harrowhark]

What do you imagine weddings in the nine houses are like? Do you think they still wear white or abide by any more traditional pre-resurrection customs? Since Jod drew so much inspiration from both Rome and Catholicism (Catholic wedding doctrine is based on the ideas of free will marriage that were tradition in ancient Rome) I think it's likely but there has to be some insane necromancy element too. Maybe a riff on the eucharist from wedding masses? Also, how do you think it varies from house to house? You always have really fun and creative ideas about the world, so I thought I'd ask your opinion about one of my favorite random headcanons to think about. (P.S. I hope the eras concert was fun!!)

Oh gosh, first of all, that is incredibly flattering lol. Second... I actually hadn't given this just a ton of thought before getting this, so it's been fun to thing about!

I think they probably resemble Christian/Catholic wedding ceremonies enough to be recognizable as such, but I would love it if they were like, the funhouse mirror version of that. I LOVE the idea of the Eucharist being involved prominently, but maybe even at a more symbolic level? Like we could obviously tie that to the whole "consume the flesh" thing, but I just feel like Tamsyn could come up with a really cool play on that concept that would never even occur to me lol.

I kind of doubt they wear white; I don't really have a good rationale for this other than vibes. Just thinking about how we see a decent range of aesthetics across the clothing of the Houses, especially in color, it would track that they have differing customs for wedding/ceremonial attire as well. Like, I can't really imagine that the Sixth whole gray librarian thing translates into formalwear the same way that say, the Third does (although using the Third as an example feels like cheating, because I suspect they go over the top for EVERYTHING so no one was gonna be doing it like them anyway lmao).

As an aside, I'm pausing for a moment to push one of my most indulgent AtN bingo card items, which is Harrow wearing white. I know the Lyctor robes are like, iridescent white, but I mean purely white. With Alecto getting so much imagery around light, and how Harrow describes her in the Tomb as wearing wearing "a white shift", it could be a cool parallel. Oh also, now that I think about it, the whole thing about Harrow being a nun, i.e., "betrothed to the Locked Tomb". Plus like, there's something there about the way it would be close to but not exactly like the iridescent white of the Lyctor robes, like, John was trying to emulate that and could only achieve a flashy approximation. And something something Harrow setting aside the black of the Ninth something mumble. But mostly, I'm heart eyes over more wedding/marriage imagery for her and Gideon 🥰 (Idk what to make of that in contrast to the white that the Tower Princes wear, but it's entirely hypothetical at this point, which means that I can ignore anything that doesn't fit my agenda.)

On my last reread, one of the little details that I was actually really taken by was that Magnus is noted to be wearing a wedding ring. So that tradition still stands, at least for the Fifth, and I absolutely melted over it.

I would kind of assume the vibe of a wedding ceremony varies from House to House, maybe along the lines of what we know about the cultures of each and what they tend to emphasize. If that's the case, I would LOVE to see a Seventh wedding; I bet it's gorgeous and deliciously fucked up. I'm really really curious about the wedding that Tamsyn has mentioned being in AtN, especially because she mentioned party dresses, and you know how I love putting blorbos in outfits. I suspect that her saying that is a bit of a red herring... Like if I'm giving my best guess, there WILL be a wedding (an actual one, not just a symbolic Lyctorhood whatever wedding) BUT I don't it will be the focus. I could see it being used really neatly as backdrop for some heisty business, more of a plot device to get people all in one place or as a distraction. I'm not getting my hopes up to see the actual ceremony, I guess is what I'm saying. The real action might be happening in the next room over.

(and P.S. THANK YOU! It was AMAZING and honestly, probably the best night of my life and also I cried for basically the entire thing, I still cannot believe I was lucky enough to be there. I got to go with my best friends, who live quite far away from me and I hadn't seen since January, which made it that much more fun. We went to the second night, and we mostly stayed off our phones/away from any social media so that we could go in and be completely surprised without having seen anything about it, and I'm so glad we did! I wouldn't have held out if we were going to a different date lol.)

[obeetlebeetle]

lying awake in bed thinking how alecto is the earth but the dead and dying earth, inhuman monster, made in the moment john killed her with nukes on nukes on nukes. and the atomic bombs used to destroy warships. and how john wouldn't have frozen alecto for anyone's sake but his. and how the ninth wasn't meant to exist. alecto's fealty to harrow. and how gideon tells us that sometimes bombs are people-shaped. and how alecto is at home in the mirror. seems like in atn we can probably count on some big fucking explosions huh?

[anaalnathrakhs]

Celestia as John Gaius, obviously

Luna as either Mercymorn or Harrow herself (if you want to take the tentabus story seriously) WAIT maybe as Alecto? given the banishment thing?

Cadance is complicated. She could be Dulcinea/Cytherea, she certainly fits the bill of the Seventh house and the themes of both these characters. She could also be Coronabeth. And then if we decide to subdue her role a little, she could be a duo with Shining Armor and either Abigail and Magnus, or Cyrus and Valancy.

Twilight would make a good Palamedes, but then who can be her Camilla? Perhaps Harrow as well. I'd prefer going with the worst Twilight we can see in Lesson Zero or It's About Time, and make her play the role of Ianthe, with then Cadance as Coronabeth, but I don't know.

Then their cavalier would be Shining Armor.

Rainbow Dash as Gideon. Sorry I read one fanfic in my youth were she was the daughter of Celestia and yeah no yeah. But I don't know if I see her with Luna as her Harrow.

Maybe then Harrow could be... Sunset Shimmer? Moondancer? I think Sunset Shimmer and RD could riff off each other well in that EQG sort of way, and Sunset's mean girl-redemption arc could mirror the first film, and her change throughout the second one. Significantly darker take on her emotional journey to liken her to Harrow but why not.

I vote for Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo as Isaac and Jeannemary

Which then casts Applebloom as Nona?

I'm struggling to place Applejack, as I don't think she'd make that good of a Camilla, and especially with WHO, but I could cast her as Pyrrha Dve? not sure who'd be g1deon then

Rarity can be Dulcinea/Cytherea, Blueblood can be her Protesilaus.

Fluttershy as Abigail Pent? But then who'd be Magnus? Big Mac, due to popular mlp ships? i don't really like that :/

i'm losing track and tbh i dunno where to cast pinkie. maybe swap her with rainbow dash, as she'd still work as a gideon and with sunset, and make rd a 2nd? anyway. really big fan of my own tridentarii fancast as Candance and Twilight, please agree w my ideas <3

i need someone who knows about both the locked tomb and my little pony so we can brainstorm WHICH pony would be WHICH tlt character

[youghvaudough]

i mean i had “The Body as Gideon’s romantic rival” on my metaphorical locked tomb bingo card but like. not like this

also Gideon The Corpse Prince Kiriona Gaia and Prince Yanth bonding.. great fucking soup

[vaguely-concerned]

I have seen people question whether dios apate minor really needed to happen the way it did. it's the 'this could have been an email' of htn. 'augustine this did not have to be a threesome', I hear people saying. and boy do I have an obnoxious amount of things to say to protest this perfectly sensible assertion so here we go haha

1) yes it absolutely had to be like that. It says so on this piece of paper *hands you a piece of paper that says "because I said so and also it's narratively and thematically Sexy"* in my half-legible handwriting. seeing tamsyn muir describe harrow the ninth as a book about being a kid and realizing your parents probably had sex has given me such validation, I am unstoppable now. (to be serious for a moment, harrow the ninth is essentially a bildungsroman, and the threesome scene does a whole lot of thematic heavy lifting around harrow glimpsing elements of adulthood, relationships, and sexuality she clearly finds at the same time repulsive, bewildering and fascinating, and around opening her and especially our eyes to how much john is just a man with human longings still, under the god stuff. dios apate is crucial plot- and character-wise too -- it's a loadbearing threesome in terms of delivering the clues you need to piece together the mystery plot of the book, which is simply delightful -- but even more so thematically. and then the scene at the end where they confront john gives gideon some of that same opportunity to peek into adulthood and go '...well shit I guess', as a sort of mirror, just without the french kissing that time and more murder. the things magnus and abigail model for the girls about love and adulthood? mercy and augustine are providing the opposite-day batshit insane version of that fhdskjfa, you know, for contrast and spice)

2) listen... it gets lonely out there in deep space with your 'legendary unamorous' brother, two infant pathetic baby kitten sisters who you'll probably have to kill one day when you take another stab at god if they don't manage to get themselves killed along the way on their own, and the two people you've spent the last ten thousand years having separate yet connected married & divorced arcs with and also btw one of them is god... honestly a threesome over the dinner table is probably The most well-adjusted reaction one might hope for under those circumstances

3) on a characterization level I think Augustine is actually doing something incredibly deliberate with it: he's presenting John with yet another chance to admit what he did. which is notable especially since the deal he and mercy agree on as a condition for the threesome to happen at all seems to be that they're going to give the ol' godslaying another game try sooner rather than later. (I get the sense that it's not so much that he disagrees with her ultimate goal so much as that he thinks she's being dangerously indiscreet and hasty going about it, before. “though I think it will be the death of us,” huh.)

notice how he's structuring the whole thing: he's invoking the intimacy and love in their strange little threeway relationship and how long it's been by truly playing along with john's 'we're a happy family really when we're at home! :)' delusion (helped along by lowered inhibitions via enormous amounts of alcohol and what I've previously described as a joint mercy/augustine leyendecker themed thirst trap. ah, a classic). he brings up alecto and what happened to her -- or rather, he is clever enough to make john bring up alecto and how she is totally dead, right?? by seeming to make a careless statement that leads there and then acting contrite about it after. he (helped along by mercy, who I think realizes exactly what he's doing -- this is very much a two-man con) brings up how much they all loved their cavaliers, and wow funny how that's been haunting us for ten thousand years now huh :) wow, a lot of our other lyctor friends slash family sure are super dead in the name of some unknowable greater reason neither of us quite grasp and that you won't fucking tell us, aren't they. these are all the main grievances he and mercy confront john about at the end of the book, but put forth much more subtly and not phrased as an accusation -- he's baring his and mercy's vulnerabilities as bait, essentially. if john had, say, a conscience where his conscience should be instead of a black hole, it probably should have stirred something in him.

(also let me just say... the way augustine just takes a pneumatic drill to the TWO tender spots g1deon seems to have and then has the audacity to be like 'oh dear. did that upset him. ooof my bad *loooong dead-eyed slurp of his wine*' is just sooo... he's such a bitch!!! he's the only person who could ever have held their own in a ten-thousand-year bitch-off with mercy and I love him so much. well even if it wasn't all to get g1deon into murder range for harrow I think he wouldn't enjoy sticking around for the 'getting our tongues on god' part of the evening so maybe it's a kindness, really, and totally not pent-up aggression from the last twenty years or so breaking through)

he is all but shaking john by the lapels begging him to just... come clean about it already, to stop thinking he's still kidding everyone else along with himself. it's clear throughout the book that augustine knows exactly what john is at this point -- and all of the most cynical things he does say about it turn out to be distressingly right. john is always less sentimental than you'd think. john wouldn't forgive mercy, he will abandon in a heartbeat anything that isn’t necessary to him anymore, whether emotionally or in some other way. and still he seems to hold out some desperate absurd hope that the man he wants, the man he thought was there, is in there, somewhere deep deep down, if he just gives him the chance to show himself.

(mercy definitely has her own side of this whole thing, I'm just focusing more on augustine because this evening was like. his idea in the first place and I feel like we can Read Some Things into that fact lol. now that we have both ntn and htn to go from I sort of have this sense that the things augustine wants from john are more... personal? more interpersonal? they both love him equally, but mercy's love seems tinged slightly more towards the religious (augustine accuses her of knowing 'only worship without adoration', which like... also the eight house's entire Vibe lol) -- mercy at the end of that book is totally a person breaking up with GOD, not just with john -- while augustine's vibe is more like a man in the last not-with-a-bang-but-a-whimper days of a marriage that sort of felt like it could have been something real and good once but all your illusions about it have since been taken from you and trampled underfoot into the mud and you've had the divorce papers signed and ready in a drawer for over a year now, hell, as it turns out, is other people etc. lmao)

having a threesome over the dinner table with god is one thing, having a threesome over the dinner table centered on the one man and god who has yet again let you down in a way so fundamental it can barely fit into words and who you both still love in a way anyway, miserably, and also just reaffirmed your joint resolution to murder (all under the pretense that it gives your baby sisters the chance to murder your brother of ten thousand years yeah that's why this is happening no other underlying aching emotional motivations here haha)... listen mercy and augustine are simply on a different level, theologically. they've added horny shrimp colours to the religious spectrum. who else does it like them

[redhotcaterpillar]

how cool would it be if Harrow gave Gideon her heart in a scene that mirrors john creating Alectos body. I would die i think

[locked-tomb-shenanigans]

Spoilers for the new Nona excerpt look away now if you haven’t read it

(Please bear with me if this is kind of incoherent and doesn’t make complete sense in all places, it’s 2 am where I live lol)

Okay hear me out: if Nona is really in Harrow’s body which the new chapter seems to heavily point towards currently, I think the soul is Alecto.

There’s an actual logical explanation for this, too: thinking about it, the possibility has occurred to me that Harrow was never actually hallucinating Alecto. (For the record, yes, she is still schizophrenic, I will get to that in a second.)

So there’s this interesting thing about Alecto seeming to know things Harrow doesn’t when she speaks to her in HtN, like when she tells her to not tell Mercy her real age. I didn’t think much of it at the time, but that does point towards at least the possibility that there might be more going on and that Harrow’s head isn’t necessarily making the Body up.

I honestly feel a little stupid because I didn’t consider this sooner, but: what if, the day Harrow opened the tomb, Alecto actually did escape? More specifically, her soul? What if, in the way Wake anchored herself to Gideon’s sword, Alecto’s soul anchored itself to Harrow’s body? 

It does seem possible to anchor yourself to a body, considering Wake walks around in Cytherea’s corpse, and that one of the things Abigail lists as revenant anchors that can be destroyed are corpses. So why wouldn’t it be possible for Alecto, the other half of a Perfect Lyctor, to anchor her spirit to a living body?

When Harrow died, Gideon resurfaced. When Gideon in Harrow’s body died, and for a moment there wasn’t a soul left to fill it, Alecto took over. A part of me is wondering if the incoherent “No no” that Nona’s name is based on was Gideon trying to say “Nonagesimus”, which, yes, would be heartbreaking, but might have been her thinking the soul resurfacing was Harrow, and handing the body back over in relief. So she ends up shelved at the back of Harrow’s mind again, except this time she has no idea whose soul she’s stuck there with, or where the hell the actual Harrow even is. Harrow, meanwhile, is anchored to Gideon’s sword—the one that Alecto doesn’t know what to do with.

The most likely moment for Alecto’s anchoring to Harrow to happen would be after she first opened the blood ward, since she mentioned she started seeing the Body after that—she spoke to Harrow at first and then stopped when her parents died and then started again at the Mithraeum. 

The tomb opening and her parents dying is also when Harrow starts struggling with her schizophrenia symptoms. I imagine it would’ve been incredibly easy for her to lump the dead woman she’s seeing together with the other audio-visual hallucinations she had. That seems like a perfectly logical conclusion on her part. But she might’ve been wrong.

It’s a good way to throw us off with the symptoms being grouped together with her seeing the Body and the yellow eyes seemingly pointing towards Nona being Gideon while also subtly hinting that something else is going on.

The thing with Nona kissing the mirror? The person Alecto was stuck with and that was supposed to build the tomb was Anastasia, Harrow’s ancestor, who also had every reason to hate John considering he killed her cavalier in order to not be discovered. I’m thinking maybe Harrow resembles her, and that’s how the kiss happened. 

Another possibility would be that Gideon briefly managed to take over in some moments before Alecto’s spirit properly lodged itself in place controlling Harrow’s body, and she did it on a sort of autopilot. This could also be an explanation for the two tantrums Nona threw but can’t really remember. (The only sort-of example we have for something like this happening is when Pyrrha talks to Harrow after the little furnace incident and Gideon the First doesn’t seem to recall it when asked.)

Another thing that deeply fascinates me is the way Nona describes languages and how her powers related to that work, especially the “watching [others] talk, making her lips look like theirs”-bit, but having to see their face and eyes and lips. How does she do that, when neither Harrow nor Gideon ever could, but doesn’t remember how to use bone magic or know anything about swordsmanship?

In Harrow the Ninth, John says “My first Resurrection was not a normal human being, and she struggled to pretend.“

But in what way was she pretending? Did she try and learn what it meant to be human by imitating others, and that’s what the description refers to? Has she always had a superhuman ability to learn languages? Is she, considering she’s most likely a resurrection beast, a mesh of human souls and has a resource pool to pull from when she sees someone speak in a certain way?

It’s worth noting that Gideon in Harrow’s body wasn’t suddenly able to use necromancy. She had lyctoral healing abilities, and so does Pyrrha, but she’s unable to access the necromantic abilities of the body, and since we pretty much know for sure that whoever is in this body isn’t Harrow, it can’t be a necromantic ability—and even then, it isn’t an ability we’ve ever seen anyone possess. So what is it, if not that?

At the end of Harrow the Ninth, Mercy describes Alecto as a “monster in a human suit”, which is an interesting detail considering she does seem to be walking around in someone else’s body.

Again, I apologize for this being somewhat incoherent, I just needed to get it out of my system because my mind is spinning in too many directions at once.

[radiantmists]

like. gideon's not perfect and im sure she did her share of making the people around her miserable but im thinking about how at her core she really does want to be wanted by someone, to be useful to someone, and from her perspective harrow has pretty profoundly rejected that, and then she ends up stuck with ianthe and john, who both thrive on devotion, on worship, on using other people, and especially in John's case on seeming benevolent while doing it.

and gideon went into it angry with and mistrustful of them, but she went into canaan angry with and mistrustful of harrow, and we all saw how that worked out. (Harrow deserved the loyalty more than they would have, to be fair, but it still says something about gideon that she gave it.)

it's this dark mirror to nona, who ended up with the three people most able and willing to be good to her; gideon spent that same period with people who we know would have abused her shamelessly, and while she didnt have the vulnerability of complete amnesia, both of them being ungodly talented necromancers and her being a revenant i think they probably exercised quite a bit of power over her. We know ianthe could 'shut her off', and that john made all sorts of modifications.

and... I think, to some extent, it worked. It's hard to comment on her friendship with ianthe, gideon probably had some leverage there bc i imagine john still favored her over ianthe, but even if she doesnt fully believe that she can be john's cavalier, she makes that comment about not knowing what he'll do without them.

she's bought into this idea that he might need her, might want her, because she so desperately wants someone to want her. but she also says, I'll fight the body and kill it, or it'll kill me, what does it matter. opening the tomb might mean john actually wants her as his cavalier, or that he'll get alecto back like he maybe actually wants, or that harrow will be saved, or that alecto will kill john as wake wanted, and whichever way it goes gideon will have fulfilled one of her purposes, have been what someone needed or wanted and not the eternal disappointment crux deplores her as, and i think she was chasing that fulfillment as much as anything else.

[chaos-has-theories]

Is the Ninth actually on the Moon?

ok so I've been chewing this one over for literal months. There's this post by @giraffesonjupiter that I just stumbled over again. Somebody (I think it was @urcrookedneighbor ?) tagged posts about A.L. as "Alecto Luna" to mirror John Gaius, which, big brain. Then there's all of John's sun symbolism, and Alecto as his counterpart.... and then I saw somebody mention that the trip Harrow and Gideon take at the beginning of GtN is awfully short considering they'd have to cross half the solar system. It makes a lot of sense! Pluto could be a red herring!

So I put on my research goggles and pulled out GtN. From chapter 1:

This late in the equinox no light would make it here for months, in any case; you could tell the season by how hard the heating vents were creaking.

Right, it's cold and dark on the Ninth. Specifically, more so than on the First, so does that make sense?

"Dark side of the moon" my brain helpfully suggests, but no, I find out immediately; that's a misnomer. The moon has the same day/night cycle as the earth.

Then came the long hike up twenty-two flights the back way, not one light relieving the greasy dark...

But right, most of Drearburh is underground. Maybe that's how it could still work?

Kind of, yes. Turns out there's craters that (if they're deep and close to the poles enough) never see sunlight.

Out here you had an unimpeded view up to a pocket of Ninth sky. It was soupy white where the atmosphere was pumped in thickest, and thin and navy where it wasn't.

Fair enough, neither Pluto nor the moon have an atmosphere...

The bright bead of Dominicus winked benignly down from the mouth of the long vertical tunnel.

...Oh.

That doesn't sound like the moon.

TL,DR: No.

[createacamillahect]

nsft but minors can skip to question to vote!

she's standing outside with her hands in her pockets. you reach out and pull her in by the collar of her jacket.

she laughs and kisses you deeply, her hand on the small of your back as she bends you backward with the force of the kiss. she eventually pulls back to take you in. her cheeks flushed and her pupils dilated, her chest is heaving slightly, though whether from the kiss or excitement you can't say. she lifts up a one finger and motions for you to twirl for her.

you turn around - you hadn't even considered the back - and immediately find yourself pressed up against the mirror.

her eyes meet yours in the mirror as she drags her hands over the piece. "look at you," she whispers, "you're perfect." her hand slides into her pocket and slides out to reveal a hot pink strap, an unspoken question. you nod vigorously. she pulls out a small bottle of lube, and with one hands unbuttoning her khakis, the other begins lubing up the strap as she slips it inside herself and nudges your legs apart for her.

"eyes open," she murmurs close, "okay?"

you nod.

"good girl," she whispers as she slides home.

she sets a brutal pace, pulling you back by your hair to get a better view of yourself. you look debauched, whole body trembling as you take the full brunt of her, the lingerie sliding against your breasts in the most pleasant way possible. she reaches down and slides her index fingers around you. you gasp. "please," you breath.

"i need you to be quiet for me," she says hoarsely, sounding affected, "can you do that?"

you nod, biting your lip hard. she gently offers two fingers, which you slide into your mouth with her next thrust.

with renewed vigor and the assurance of your silence, she becomes merciless, stroking you on occasion then rapidly in quick succession. your body jerks as you bite down on her fingers, her thrusts becoming erratic as she thrusts one, twice, and then arches into your back as she comes behind you. as you both come down, you slide her fingers out of her mouth, a string of saliva connecting you, and kiss them generously. "are you okay?" you ask frantically.

she strokes your cheek with a post-coital relaxed smile. "i can take a little pain." she kisses your shoulder and adds, "it wasn't that hard anyway." you smile as she pulls out of you and, leaving her end of the strap inside her, zips up her pants. she places her other fingers briefly inside her mouth, tasting you, pulling them out slowly while making eye contact in the mirror. "let's go home."

your heart sinks. "we still have to check out."

she grins. "i already paid."

after your shower together, you two finish setting up for the party. camilla and you hang up extra lights and decorations. you move chairs all around a common space.

everyone arrives and crowds together in your living room. gideon and harrow are on the floor under a blanket in the corner, while they debate with a red cheeked abigail sitting on magnus's lap on the merits and shortcomings of mandatory gym class in schools. palamedes and dulcie are sitting on the floor on the other side of cam with you all under a blanket, their hands mysteriously absent from view. you and palamedes tapped each other's hands from their places on either of camilla's thighs. corona's sandwiched between marta, judith and ianthe on the couch, wearing the red lingerie under her jacket, nipples visible underneath. pyrrha and wake are doing body shots. mercy, augustine, aim, cristabel, we suffer, and cytherea are smoking in the bathroom. john's invitation must've been lost in the mail. and pash is sitting with alecto cuddled into her side.

after camilla hides her face in your neck and bites,

it's time for the gift exchange!

hello lovelies! i have decided to do a choose your own adventure camilla hect holiday story! so how it's going to work is I'm going to have a blurb for a story and then a poll for you to vote for what choice you want to do next to advance the story! (like mini dnd)

after the vote ends i'll continue the story and then give you another choice! i will end the story with a sft ending and a nsft continuation and ending after!

first story blurb and poll later today!!!

ps ask answering party this weekend!! 🎉🎉🎉

[holly-poly]

Default Deadline Passed + New Pinch Hits

The default deadline has officially passed, which means the next deadline everyone needs to be worried about is the actual deadline of 11:59pm on 11 January. Please click here to see when the deadline is for your timezone. That said, there's still one pinch hit remaining from the last batch as well as three new ones that just went out. Please see below for general details. More specific information can be found by clicking the links. 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Fandom   Adaline (Age of Adaline)/Diana Prince (DCEU)/Helen Magnus (Sanctuary), Dutch (Killjoys)/Kyra (Chronicles of Riddick)/Mirror Ezri (Star Trek DS9), Dinah Madani (Marvel Netflix)/Karen Page (Marvel Netflix)/Kate Kane (Arrowverse), Angie Martinelli (Agent Carter)/Catrin Cole (Their Finest)/Phyl Moore (Their Finest), Anne (Glorious 39)/Catrin Cole (Their Finest)/Phyl Moore (Their Finest) Fanfiction, Fanvid Letter: http://shopfront.dreamwidth.org/447973.html Pinch Hit #15 - https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/holly-poly-pinchhits/c/G-0awNVy9UY Request 1 by firelord65 Fandom: Star Trek: Classic Timeline   Ash Tyler | Voq/Michael Burnham/Sylvia Tilly, Ash Tyler | Voq/Gabriel Lorca | Mirror Gabriel Lorca/Michael Burnham Fanfiction Request 2 by firelord65 Fandom: Star Wars - All Media Types   Armitage Hux/Kylo Ren/Rey, Armitage Hux/Kylo Ren/Phasma, Armitage Hux/Phasma/Kylo Ren/Rey, Armitage Hux/Ben Solo | Kylo Ren/Rey Fanart, Fanfiction Request 3 by firelord65 Fandom: Divergent Series - Veronica Roth   Christina/Eric/Tris Prior, Eric/Lauren/Tris Prior Fanfiction Request 4 by firelord65 Fandom: Final Fantasy VII Remake (Video Game 2020)   Cloud Strife/Jessie/Tifa Lockhart (FFVII Remake), Aerith Gainsborough/Cloud Strife/Tifa Lockhart (FFVII Remake) Fanart, Fanfiction Request 5 by firelord65 Fandom: Pirates of the Caribbean (Movies)   Elizabeth Swann/Jack Sparrow/Will Turner Fanfiction Pinch Hit #16 - https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/holly-poly-pinchhits/c/sMBJyVG7FnI Request 1 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: Star Wars - All Media Types   Ahsoka Tano/Barriss Offee/Trace Martez, Ap'lek/Dopheld Mitaka/Vicrul, Karé Kun/Poe Dameron/Temmin "Snap" Wexley, Armitage Hux/C-3PO/Poe Dameron, Jannah/Kaydel Ko Connix/Rose Tico, Beaumont Kin/Kaydel Ko Connix/Rose Tico, Finn/Poe Dameron/Rey Fanfiction Request 2 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: The Locked Tomb Trilogy | Gideon the Ninth Series - Tamsyn Muir   Coronabeth Tridentarius/Ianthe Tridentarius/Naberius Tern, Matthias Nonius/Ortus Nigenad/Protesilaus Ebdoma, Augustine the First/John Gaius | Necrolord Prime/Mercymorn the First, Camilla Hect/Dulcinea Septimus/Palamedes Sextus, Gideon Nav/Harrowhark Nonagesimus/The Body | Alecto | The Girl in the Tomb, Gideon the First/Pyrrha Dve/Wake | Awake Remembrance of These Valiant Dead Fanfiction Request 3 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: Dragon Age - All Media Types   Female Surana/Jowan/Lily, Anders/Female Amell/Jowan, Loghain Mac Tir/Maric Theirin/Rowan Guerrin, Female Surana/Isabela/Zevran Arainai Fanfiction Request 4 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: The Dragon Prince (Cartoon)   Harrow/Sarai/Viren Fanfiction Request 5 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: Downton Abbey   Chris Webster/Richard Ellis/Thomas Barrow Fanfiction Request 6 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: Persona 4   Kujikawa Rise/Shirogane Naoto/Tatsumi Kanji, Hanamura Yosuke/Narukami Yu/Tatsumi Kanji, Adachi Tohru/Izanami/Narukami Yu Fanfiction Request 7 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: RWBY   Blake Belladonna/Sun Wukong/Yang Xiao Long, Blake Belladonna/Ilia Amitola/Yang Xiao Long, Clover Ebi/Qrow Branwen/Robyn Hill Fanfiction Request 8 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: Mass Effect - All Media Types   Female Shepard/Jack | Subject Zero/Miranda Lawson, Female Shepard/Garrus Vakarian/Tali'Zorah nar Rayya, Cora Harper/Female Ryder | Sara/Liam Kosta Fanfiction Request 9 by inquisitor_tohru Fandom: Buffy the Vampire Slayer & Related Fandoms   Illyria/Wesley Wyndam-Pryce/Winifred "Fred" Burkle, Buffy Summers/Faith Lehane/Kendra Young, Buffy Summers/Faith Lehane/Spike Fanfiction Pinch Hit #17 - https://groups.google.com/u/0/g/holly-poly-pinchhits/c/8_6ikVTDBBY Request 1 by flowersforgraves Fandom: Valor Series - Tanya Huff   Adrian Hollice/Binti Mashona/di'Merk Mysho/di'Stenjic Haysole/Juan Checya/Ressk, Adrian Hollice/Binti Mashona/di'Merk Mysho/di'Stenjic Haysole/Juan Checya/Mike Glicksohn/Ressk Fanfiction Request 2 by flowersforgraves Fandom: Babylon 5   Catherine Sakai/Jeffrey Sinclair/Lise Hampton/Michael Garibaldi, Catherine Sakai/Jeffrey Sinclair/Michael Garibaldi, Jeffrey Sinclair/Lise Hampton/Michael Garibaldi Fanfiction, Podfic Request 3 by flowersforgraves Fandom: Fake AH Crew & Related Fake Rooster Teeth Associated Groups   Gavin Free/Geoff Ramsey/Jack Pattillo/Jeremy Dooley/Michael Jones, Gavin Free/Geoff Ramsey/Jack Pattillo/Michael Jones, Gavin Free/Geoff Ramsey/Jack Pattillo, Gavin Free/Jeremy Dooley/Michael Jones, Alfredo Diaz/Gavin Free/Trevor Collins, Geoff Ramsey/Jack Pattillo/Michael Jones, Jeremy Dooley/Matt Bragg/Trevor Collins, Jeremy Dooley/Kdin Jenzen/Matt Bragg, Elyse Willems /Fiona Nova/Lindsay Tuggey Jones, Bruce Greene/Elyse Willems/James Willems Fanfiction, Podfic Request 4 by flowersforgraves Fandom: Stargate - All Media Types   Lisa Park/Tamara "TJ" Johansen/Vanessa James, Chloe Armstrong/Eli Wallace/Matthew Scott, Adan Brody/Dale Volker/Lisa Park/Ronald Greer Fanart, Fanfiction, Fanvid, Podfic Letter:  http://flowersforgraves.dreamwidth.org/76689.html If you're interested in claiming any of these pinch hits, send an e-mail to holly.poly.exchange@gmail.com with your AO3 name

[vaguely-concerned]

after some reflection I've reached the conclusion that to my mind nona the ninth did need to be its own book -- not in terms of delivering the plot or character developments, necessarily, but to be a thematic mirror to harrow the ninth in a way I don't think you could have done if this was also trying to do its job as the last book of a trilogy.

harrow the ninth is about the horror of nothing changing -- the grim, unending slog of mental illness, the inexorable method in madness grinding along, grinding you down, moment upon moment; it's about how grief can seem to create its own pockets of eternity. it's about how some things can only be remembered in forgetting.

nona the ninth is about the horror of everything changing all the time forever -- the people you love, until they aren't quite the people you loved any more, the places you love, until it's become somewhere you can never go back to, the world, every day -- you, until you die one way or another, in truth or in no longer recognizing yourself. you go to school for the hour of science and noodle every day, until one day you just don't anymore, and nothing can be done about that. nona is about 'life is too short, and love is too long', but also 'you can't take 'loved' away'. pyrrha, who's tried for ten thousand years to kill her feelings but "Don't worry, kiddie. I'll keep loving you -- my problem is I don't know how to stop." even when it just hurts us, we love. we just can't help ourselves. and at the end alecto remembers herself (itself?), which means forgetting nona.

the strange paradoxical comfort of madness vs. the unbearable loneliness of sanity. harrow is mad, and for all her suffering it keeps her from having to face the most inconceivable, the thing she can't live with: a universe without gideon. cam and pal are so so sane, and they can't bear it. they die to live in a way they can... uh, well, live with, and it's a crazy thing to do but it's the kindest thing they could find for themselves. the world of harrow the ninth is so dead and deadened, and the world of nona is so unbearably alive.

(ironically ntn was a much more difficult read for me than htn, because the way htn works is already so close to how my own mind works (yes, unfortunately, really. no, I'm not okay, but not in a way anyone can do anything about with any immediacy so let's ignore that for now lol). I understand the logic of it intimately, for all it looks confusing if you just see the surface. but the ongoing nature of the restless dread in ntn -- the way you love these people, and through the book they keep drifting away from you so steadily and gradually that you can't even put your finger on exactly when you really lost them as they were at the beginning. at the end, when pyrrha is carrying nona because she can't stand anymore (carrying her in 'the halo of her arms'...... god. yes, that is what a parent feels like for a child huh), I vicariously felt what I suspect is pyrrha's train of thought as well that like... what if you could just hold her close enough, love her hard enough, that she won't have to go, that she could get to live. what if you could just refuse to let go of her, what if you could be strong enough for that. and one person in this universe is that strong-- why would you let someone go -- away from you -- untouchable? John's obsession with being able to touch his loved ones, except he's so profoundly fucked up he doesn't understand any way to do it but to make them into extensions of himself, to consume them and transform them into himself, the very hungry caterpillar style -- he wanted to touch so he made them his hands, and he doesn't understand why it doesn't fulfil him. and thank god pyrrha has the soul and sense to understand why you can't just eat what you love, narrowly, but I still wanted her to be able to still hold nona and protect her from everything including death so fucking bad, and of course she can't. that's the tragedy of it, that's the beauty of it. love doesn't change anything, and we just can't help but love anyway, and it changes everything, and it's all we can do sometimes. fuck I'm going to need a lot of lying face down on the floor for a few hours to process this book huh lmao)