#3x10 is about MK like

[imminent-danger-came]

This scene drives me up the wall.

The framing, MK being in between Wukong and Macaque, both of them looking at MK like what he said is unbelievable yet remarkable, looking at this kid who represents the both of them in different ways.

And then there's the transition to Macaque's face right on "we're heroes! It's what we do!". Mei screams, and Macaque gives into his fear and leaves right afterwards, he "runs-off", he's cowardly. MK, in quite the contrast, then turns around in motivation (vs 2x05 and 2x10 when he turns around in fear), then unabashedly running towards Mei to save her.

Like, this scene is truly the turning point for Macaque, and he's finally able to see the situation outside of himself and Wukong. So then in 4x14 when they find themselves in similar circumstance (someone exploding with uncontrollable power and threatening the world), the fact that he chooses to stay is so significant.

Look at Mei and Tang's faces. No one thought Macaque would make the final stand this time, but he did. He chooses to stay and help until the end (unlike Peng lol), and he's practicing what he preaches to MK in 4x10—he's "doing something else!". The choices aren't stay and die or run and live, there is a third option here, even if that third option is both the scariest and the one that requires the most effort.

MK: "Remind me how this, 'game', is supposed to convince me I'm not destined to turn into an evil demon monkey thing again, cause, every option I pick takes me to this! Same! Screen! Macaque: "Hey, you're finally getting it! No matter what options it's giving you, you're always going to end up in the same spot."

(4x10 The Jade Emperor)

-

Macaque is a character who is very experienced with inevitability. I think he viewed Wukong's "abandonment" as inevitable after the fact (also believing that MK, like Wukong, was going to eventually, and inevitably, "abandon" his friends"). Throughout s3, his part in fulfilling "destiny", or rather being a piece in the Lady Bone Demon's game, was also inevitable.

Macaque: "Alright misery kid, you were supposed to realize by now that the choices the game's giving you, aren't the only choices you've got. Life isn't some pre-written thing like a video game where you have to do what the tutorial says."

The choices the game's giving you aren't the only choices you've got.

In s3, Macaque's only choices weren't the false dichotomy he made up in his own mind. It wasn't "Help SWK and die" or "Use the samadhi fire to escape and live". There were other options, like there always are—however, because he only saw those choices, Macaque inevitably ended up "in the same spot". Danger, death, loneliness—the options he kept picking took him to the same final screen.

AND, because of MK, he saw those other choices.

I've mentioned this before in my Hero & Warrior meta (which I think I might rewrite/add to sometime), but Macaque is essentially repeating back to MK what MK taught him in s3, both in 3x10 and 3x13:

MK: "Ugh, STOP! You keep playing at being this bad guy, acting like you're just in it for you! But I know, deep deep down, you're not that guy. Help us, make it right." Macaque: "I'm not a hero bud-" MK: "-then be a warrior."

(3x13 Time to Be Warriors)

-

Like, again, I'm on the FLOOR.

The options aren't "hero" or "villain", there's a third choice: to be a warrior. Instead of "helping SWK and dying", Macaque can "aid MK and live", if that makes sense. The game's rigged and the options are limited, so you have to "do something else", something destiny, or anyone, doesn't expect. You have to make you're own options, you're own choices, you're own fate. And MK as the "plan man", is in the perfect position to do just that.

But he's also in the perfect position to make and be caught in his own game.

But, that's beside the point.

The point is that Macaque see's MK as someone who manages to win unwinnable fights, who manages to do the impossible and avoid the inevitable. And maybe, MK is the person he viewed Wukong as a long time ago.

anyone else up thinking about how macaque was soso wrong abt who mk is as a person in shadow play and went through all of s3 assuming mk was just Wukong Part 2 RIGHT UP UNTIL he refuses to abandon mei in 3x10. and then he just looks at mk like

^ this is the face of someone who just had his whole worldview rearranged in the time it took mk to say “i’d never abandon her when she needs me!” suddenly, mk isn���t just wukong 2: electric boogaloo anymore, he’s something Else to macaque. the Hero… isn’t abandoning his friend when it benefits him? even with all this power, even when no one could blame him, he still turns around and fights for his friend? who is this guy?

macaque’s spent this whole season wanting to get the hell out of dodge without getting LBD mad at him. he wants to free himself and then he wants to fuck off until this mess blows itself over. that was his plan, and he’s free now. he finally has the chance to do that, to make a clean getaway- but for the first time, he sticks around. he’s curious. who is this kid? and that’s why he goes Back towards the lady bone demon, and why he’s there to bail mk out when wukong gets possessed.

like, mac only starts being helpful After the samadhi fire. he saves mk, delivers the mayor to the gang, lets himself get tied up, and gives the gang valuable intel on LBD. he easily could’ve freed himself at any point, gotten the drop on them, and gotten away again. but that’s not what he wants anymore. why does he stick around to let mk convince him to fight? because he’s curious. he wants to see where this is going.

and then macaque, the guy who has never entered a fight that he can’t win (or at least escape from easily, which is still a win in his book since he survives the fight), the guy who fights dirty and stacks the deck in his favor, agrees to a completely unwinnable fight. there was no world where macaque beat wukong on top of that mech. mac knew this, and agreed to do it anyways, because mk asked him to. because mk’s smth macaque hasn’t seen before, and he wants to see where this goes. and i’m really really normal about it

[imminent-danger-came]

do you think the writers are being too slow revealing what happened with wukong and macaque? like should the full story been revealed in s4

That's very subjective!

For me personally, I'm totally fine with how it's played out. We get enough tidbits every season/developments with their dynamic that I'm pretty content. I also just think that when the time comes, how they choose to reveal that information to us (and especially to MK) will have optimal impact!

Idk, I just think it's going to work out you know

[lobsters-on-their-heads]

OB Rewatch: Transgressive Border Crossing

“And here on the set of an alien space ship...”

I loved:

Just visually speaking, Cosima zoning out in her grow tent, sweater / cardigan artfully both draped over and exposing her chest. (She really maybe should’ve grabbed one of the 10,000 pillows from the bed, though.) 

The different sisters’ reactions to the sheep mask as a reference to Dolly the sheep. Alison is offended, Cosima’s tickled, and Sarah just smirks.

The intercuts of Sarah and Art going through Beth’s place with Beth herself going through the last days of her life.

Felix NOT being the super supportive, always there when asked, brother-sestra. He’s allowed to ignore phone calls and feel bitter that his life has always taken a back step to Sarah’s. He’s immature about it (especially later on), and I’m glad, because he’s a human being, not just a gay plus one. 

Helena in the fucking doctor’s office. Ho-ly Shit. It’s such a good combination of Helena wackiness, identity-swap humor, baby cuteness, and the sweetness that comes from knowing what Helena’s been through, and what this means to her, and also what it means to her to have someone there (Donnie) to share it with. 

Also, Donnie getting to “play” the supportive father-to-be, and experiencing a side of parenthood he and Alison never did. 

I’ve joyfully added the term “Fertile Myrtle” to my own personal lexicon. 

Siobhan mothering Cosima, and how receptive Cosima actually is to it. You know that Cosima’s offered her own, actual mother a smoke at some point, too.

The last scene with Beth and MK. I’ve seen it before, and I know how it ends, and I’m still tearing up. 

I liked: 

Siobhan’s amusement at Hell-Wizard’s name.

That Cosima pointed out that Toronto isn’t exactly the best place to be if Neolution’s after Sarah / them. Because, seriously. 

The continuing references to Capra’s bifurcated dick, which we never get to see. It’s a great example of how leaving things to the imagination works better sometimes. 

The gratuitous, but always welcome, shot of Sarah’s ass. Except, is this actually Kathryn Alexandre’s ass we’re looking at here, or just her head and arm?

Art continuing to involve Sarah in police work. I swear, those two would make great actual police detective partners. Make this spin-off happen, people!

The hints early in the episode that Beth’s family isn’t involved or doesn’t care about her. I wondered about it in season 1 - how Paul was the only person outside of work that “Beth” interacted with. But now, seeing the boxes piled up, and Art’s reference that “her family’s gonna take care of it,” when they obviously haven’t... poor Beth. 

Duko’s insidious bad guy is soooo much better than the chain-smoking Evil Dr. Coady or, later, the wig-wearing Westmoreland. Duko’s an inside man, he’s trusted by everyone else, top and bottom, and he is the person who Beth would normally turn to for help. Nothing he says is even evil. It’s all context and insinuation. 

Art admitting that he’s not emotionally okay with digging through Beth’s apartment, and then doing it anyway, to help the sisters. 

“This is Helena we’re talking about. She eats frozen bread and she’s murdered people.” Great equivalency there, Alison!

I didn’t like: 

Kira’s monkey doll getting burned. 

Kendall’s habit of listing off all the things that have happened between scenes. (Okay, she’s only done it twice now, but still, two’s a trend.)

They set Kira up to be all creepy, kicking it up a few notches this season, and it went NOWHERE.

This turned out okay because the actors knocked it out of the park, but Donnie really should’ve expected Alison to have Feelings about Helena’s ultrasound. Sometimes our dear Mr. Hendrix isn’t the most emotionally intelligent guy around.

Kendall smoking in the lab. I get the feeling that Cosima’s contraption is more of a vaporizer, which I assume means less disgusting particles being exhaled, so while I’m not crazy about that indoors, either, it’s probably 1000x better than cigarette smoke.

Sarah’s response to Felix’s disclosure about searching for his birth family is the exact reason that he didn’t tell her sooner. She’s a bitch about it, and while I understand why, it illustrates exactly why Felix pushes her away so much in this season. 

Dizzy should’ve noticed the hair coming out of Sarah’s hood as not being MK’s, not to mention the lack of a scar.

Other notes:

Sarah has pound notes, which is an odd currency for living in Iceland. I guess they plan on spend a few minutes in the UK... on the way to... Canada? 

Kira goes back and forth calling Cal “Cal” and “Daddy.”

I misheard Hell-Wizard’s comment as “rotten ruin” the first time I saw this, but he’s really saying “Rot & Ruin.” Which makes more sense, I guess.

I’m guessing Hell-wizard or someone “migrated” the equipment from Dyad, since Scott and Cosima were escorted out by security when Delphine “accepted their resignations” last season. Still, I like to imagine that Delphine herself hooked them up with some of it, somehow. 

Cosima taking Kendall’s blood is shot in much the same way as the scene in Season 2 of Leekie giving Cosima a test shot while Delphine held her hand. 

In the same scene, Siobhan seems quite keen on Cosima taking more of Kira’s stem cells. Also, Cosima’s response that she can’t do multiple treatments at once is based on not “skewing the whole data set.” Not her health, or Kira’s, or even the logistics of tapping Kira again in their present situation, but the data set.

Mika’s damn lucky that Beth didn’t blow her head off.

Other people with more knowledge than me have coded MK as autistic, which I honestly love. 

I have questions: 

What have Sarah, Siobhan, Kira, and Kendall been up to in Iceland this whole time? Has Kira been going to Icelandic school?

It’s a safe assumption that Cal got the house for them, and Kira asks where he is (which would be odd if he’d made his whereabouts known to them), and Sarah says he’s out of the country, but what’s he doing, exactly? How does he feel about the house getting torched?

Helena says she never has farts when “having sex with my boyfriend,” and then she reaches for Donnie’s hand. Was she joking, or referring to actual sex with Jesse, who we never hear from again?

Does Felix really never lock his door? Even now? Even with everything that’s happened?

Is this the same blonde wig Sarah used to play Krystal later on?

What language were the “paramedics” speaking when they had Sarah on the floor in the laundromat?

I would’ve liked to have seen: 

Cosima’s story from the end of 3x10 until now. How and when did she realize that Delphine was missing? What did she and Scott do to try and find her? Have she and Alison and Helena been hanging out?

[imminent-danger-came]

I was rewatching s2 last night, and ohhh man mk looks over mei so much it's not even funny. times mei has been ignored:

maybe you need to really listen! (during the blindfold ep)

mk just? grabs stuff she's using out of her hands all the time? (video game ep)

maybe you shouldn't skip the tutorials? (video game ep again)

the way he addresses her in dumpling destruction and then immediately pushes her aside for tang

i honestly remember it lowkey kinda bothering me on first watch but now it's REALLY egregious on rewatch. are you scared? I'm so scared. do you WANT to end up like shadowpeach MK

2x03 is so rude because the whole fucking episode they're like "MK you don't listen" and it's so true. He doesn't. Pigsy literally points it out again at the end of 4x14 with the whole sun screen bit:

Pigsy: "Tch, don't bother, I've been telling him that for years but he LITERALLY never listens." Sun Wukong: "Yep! That's how we role."

-

THEY'RE SO FUCKING RUDE. "That's how we role." We. We????? Wukong and MK???? Like WHATEVER. FINE. (("I told you going against the Jade Emperor was a bad idea, but no. Wukong doesn't listen to ANYONE! He just does whatever he wants" Like shut up. Shut up!))

MK gets so stuck in his own head ("You're all stuck up in your own head! None of this is your fault!" +1 to the MK ignoring Mei counter from 4x08) and I think that really contributes to his s2 scramble to get more powerful.

LIKE:

MK: "Stop? Now? Never! I just have to try harder. It's just like the Monkey King said! *laughs manically* I just need to get stronger!"

(2x06 Game On)

VS

MK: "Why didn't he just stop, right here? He was already so much stronger than anyone ever needed to be!" Macaque: "Wukong didn't think so, he always felt he had to be stronger—more immortal."

(4x11 A Lifetime of Mistakes)

-

(Bonus thing between eps 2x03 and 2x06, look at 0:42 in this video for MK hearing Mei but not listening to her. Because of course that's what he would do. *head in my hands .png*)

The terrible s2 choices both Wukong and MK make in relation to their friends is just absolutely delicious after 4x11. Like, OH. This has been a lifelong pattern of Wukong's—paranoia is one of his fatal flaws (paired with his terrible communication and self-sacrificial nature), and while he had the power to stop LBD before he still feel's the need to go after the Samadhi Fire to stop her now, and to protect MK.

Hold on look at this parallel that I don't know what to do with:

MK: "Ugh, I can't do it!"

Mei: "It's alright MK—you did it before, you'll do it again!" Sandy: "Yeah! Maybe it's like Monkey King said: the power will come when you need it most!"

(3x04 The Winning Side)

-

MK: "What! But you said the Samadhi fire was the only thing that could stop her!" Sun Wukong: "I KNOW WHAT I SAID! But I've beaten her before I'll- I'll do it again! Mei was right—I need to stop dragging you into my fights, all of you."

(3x10 The Samadhi Fire)

-

Wukong and MK's reach for power inspires a lot of fear in me! It does! Because, well, MK's current reach for power is going to lead him to his Monkey Form, and uh:

Like I'm scared. I'm scared!

"All doomed to play a role in tearing this world apart!" ; "This is Azure's utopia, and this barren wasteland is the price he paid to build it." ; "I'd do anything for my friends! But at the cost of the world?" "I'm sorry pal, ain't NOTHIN' worth that price!"

[imminent-danger-came]

MK: "No way! I may not understand your irrational love of noodles, or working hard, or being angry all the time—but you are always there when I need you, so it's time for me to return the favor! Because Pigsy's Noodles, are noodles worth fighting for!"

(2x04 Sweet'n Sour)

-

Subodhi: "Zhu Bajie was a stubborn one too." Pigsy: "Oh! So you think we're the same just cause we're pigs huh, bet you think I'm just a disgusting little monster too." Subodhi: "Zhu Bajie had his vices, however, like all the companions he grew up. He struggled the most, but he worked hard, not unlike yourself. Although he didn't start out this way, in time he became a deeply caring and protective creature, and a powerful ally—one of the best in fact. The heart you have in abundance, the power? Why, you've barely scratched the surface of your potential! And that's saying something."

(4x09 Roast of the Monkie Kids)

-

Gettin' emotional over my favorite hard working Pig man.

[imminent-danger-came]

I feel truly bad for anyone who can't get into lmk. Like I completely understand why, I'm just. They're missing out on so much

[imminent-danger-came]

going insane bonkers crazy again thinking about Macaque and MK parallels and similarities and am so so sick thinking about how they recognize it in eachother (at least subconsciously)

After MK saw the shadowpeach fight in 4x11, I imagine he see's himself in Macaque just like he saw himself in the warrior (finally understanding what Macaque meant in 2x07 lol)

Like:

"No that's you! You're the one always running off! Searching for more power, or more sources of immortality!"

(Am I counting Wukong leaving in the AHIB intro flashback? Yeah. Mainly because MK mentions it in 4x09: "You think Monkey King ever felt like this? Maybe that's why he stayed on this mountain, just having a good time with you guys—you know, cause...cause he knew he'd be out of the way where he couldn't hurt anyone he cared about." If the writers are going to call attention to it then so will I!)

But the cool thing about this show is that Macaque and MK also "run off":

"Well, it was great seeing you bud, just run off like you always do!"

Bonus shot of the time MK tried to run away and failed:

Bonus bonus shot of the one time Wukong and MK ran off together:

Bonus bonus bonus shot of the one time Mei ran off:

[imminent-danger-came]

As the resident "MK will hurt his family and almost destroy the world" truther, I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring!

I think the main thing I want to preface this with is that "valuing family" does NOT equal "never hurting your family". A main point of s4, especially 4x11 "A Lifetime of Mistakes", is that Wukong wanted to "protect the people he cared about", but by taking those actions to get stronger, he hurt them. The very choices he made to protect his loved ones did the exact opposite. In this case, Wukong's "devotion" to his friends isn't wholly good.

It's the same with MK.

I think this is especially highlighted in episodes like 3x03 and 4x08. In "Smartie Kid", MK exchanges his friends for a chance at power (his gold vision), in order to "save his friends". It's backwards logic, but it's the one MK utilizes (and it's pretty much beat for beat Wukong pre-jttw—the Risk MK took was calculated, but man is he bad at math). In "The Brotherhood", MK can't "risk hurting the people [he] cares about, the ones [he] has left" (an obvious parallel to 3x10 "Can't you see you're hurting the people who care about you the most?"), and so he leaves. Through leaving, MK hurts his friends in the exact way Wukong hurts him in 3x10:

This is, dare I say, a character trait consistent from s2, where in trying to protect his friends, MK only hurts them by not revealing the truth about the Lady Bone Demon. MK just "needed to be ready", in the same way that Wukong always needed to be ready, to be strong enough for what ever came his way. Episodes like 2x06 and 2x07 that show MK's obsession with power, and his foil to Wukong, stress this consistent character flaw.

Now, let me list my version of MK's flaws:

Impulsivity (We Agree!)

Selfishness/Insensitivity (Giving away Mei's sword (3x03), Refusing to listen to anyone in favor of his own wants/beliefs (2x03), all of 2x06)

Shortsightedness (Kind of tied to "forgetfulness"; Failing to return the trigram furnace (RoTSQ), Never asking questions like what Wukong's plan for the Samadhi Fire was or what SWK new about his origins, "I try not to think to hard" (3x14))

Idealization (Kinda Blind Devotion, but Idealization is a coping mechanism that: "reduces anxiety by protecting the person from emotional conflicts that might emerge in a relationship. Rather than deal with the fear that the other person isn't perfect or that the relationship might not work out, idealization allows them to keep the fantasy of perfection intact." [---] *cough cough* MK and Wukong *cough cough*)

Self-hatred (Bestie thought his friends just abandoned him in 2x07. MK. He was legitimately BETTER in s2 idk how we got here)

And also his character motivations:

Friends/Family

Being dependable/living up to the version of the "Hero" in his head

Strength

Returning to Normalcy

Sometimes other people/the world when he remembers lol

When it comes to strength for MK, MK's whole motivation to become stronger is for his friends. "Strength" is a means to an end, that end being his family (or you know, being dependable and getting to return to his "normal" life as well). So, I wouldn't necessarily say that he ever puts becoming more powerful above his friends, it's just that it's a way for MK to express his love that is ultimately harmful.

Now, I have a whole SWK V MK tag, and I do sincerely believe that those two will eventually fight, but I also think that MK will eventually doom the world.

I don't feel the need to repeat myself too much, so let me quote my own "SWK V MK" meta of sorts:

MK's feelings of abandonment in s2 were never fully resolved. Of course Wukong finally makes his return in 2x10 and is able to explain himself, but "having a good reason" doesn't undo the hurt you caused. Wukong doesn't apologize for his actions until the end of 3x14, which is an apology MK doesn't actually accept ("I can always get another bowl of noodles" ; "Sometimes I just play dumb to lighten the mood"). I'm not here to argue whether or not MK should or should not have accepted Wukong's apology, or if Wukong has "done enough" to make up for his mistakes (I don't think that's productive), but I am here to point out how the characters themselves feel about the situation. MK, as it stands, completely refuses to even acknowledge or engage with the ways Wukong has hurt him. It's not like he wants to have a problem with Wukong, but because he hasn't let himself heal it's going to become an issue later (and monkey form is all about repression). This is a consistent habit with MK, where he's hurt by someone, then sweeping that emotion under the rug because whatever hurt him was "justified". In 3x10 Mei yells at Wukong on MK's behalf, but we don't actually get to see much of MK's feelings on the situation, which he definitely has: his beloved mentor put his best friend at risk of destroying the world because he couldn't communicate. [...] Throughout s4, MK is haunted by LBD's words that doing the right thing leads to pain—that no matter what action he takes, he's inevitably going to hurt his friends and make everything worse. The curse capitalizes on these fears, functioning as a way to make MK's internal thoughts/beliefs external ("I know about you than you'll even admit, to yourself, or to others." ; "I have been dying to hear us say it, out loud"). And you know what the curse says? How he digs his teeth into MK? "We're just like Wukong, a fraud! A trickster! Destructive! Why would our legacy be any different?"

Here I dip my toes into MK's idealization of Wukong, his "good guy bad guy" mentality, his "But Monkey King is a hero, he wouldn't just-" but he would, MK. He has. MK, deep down, is afraid of being like Wukong—but he also refuses to truly acknowledge those flaws, and represses his feelings.

Two of the things that gets to me the most about the s4 special are:

The fact MK is forced into Monkey Form because his loyalty to Wukong is called into question by Azure. ("After all Sun Wukong has put you through, after how much he's let you down, you would still meet your fate trying to protect him? He doesn't deserve such loyalty, yet you insist on learning the hard way just as I did!")

Sandy's 2x08 parallel to 4x13: "Cause at the end of the day, helping my friends is more important than anything else in the world!" -> "We get it! I'd do anything to help my friends—but at the cost of the world?"

Why include the Sandy parallel at ALL if it wasn't going to lead to a choice the main gang has to make, a choice where it's their friend at the cost of the world? (Which, I could go on and on about lmk's exchange theme, the trade-offs and trolley problems). Why have so many direct MK and Wukong parallels, if it didn't mean that MK wasn't going to hurt his family "just like Wukong"? Why have Monkey form involve MK's repression? Why call MK a "harbinger of chaos", if that wasn't a role we were going to delve into?

I often think about MK's s4 arc in relation to 1x01, which boils down to this:

"Anytime I try to do anything, I just gunk everything up! Somethings wrong." (Hurt his friends because he rushed into battle without a grasp on his powers) -> "No mater what I do, it's going to lead to pain. It's just like the Lady Bone Demon said—it doesn't matter if I want to help or not, everything I do it just- it just makes things worse!" (Hurt his friends because he rushed into battle and that just lead to more problems)

To me, LMK's main theme is all about the fact that the people you love will hurt you, and you will hurt the people you love, and you still stand by each other anyways—something that would be beautifully encapsulated by MK hurting everyone around him with his own power, and those people coming together to save him anyways.

I don't have a way to wrap this up, but ready for s5! *sandy voice* I have some theories!

I saw a post talking about how there’s a deep mischaracterization of Mk in the fandom specifically about his monkey form and I’m here to dissect it. (WIth doodles!)

Tldr: Will Mk end up hurting his family in season 5 due to his new Monkey form? Most likely no, but it is possible that he indirectly hurts them by not understanding the limits of his power.

First things first let’s collect a list of attributes that we know Mk has from past seasons. This will serve as a spine or checklist to see if certain actions are possible. A thing to keep in mind though is the ranking of each attribute as the writers of LMK wrote there are characters as complex and sometimes abandon certain character values if their center value is threatened. 

Mk’s character value list (in my opinion) is as follows: 

-Family 

-Strength 

-Freedom 

-Dependability 

with family and strength being so close to each other, so sometimes strength ends up as Mk’s main concern. Of course, all of these end up mixing at times and in the first seasons we see the mixing of these values gets him in trouble 

Desiring the freedom of choice over listening to Wukong (Pig Pong Panic). Wanting to be dependable but overestimating his strength (Duplication). Wanting to be strong but forgets his family in the process (shadow play). Eventually, he gets his priorities in check and has ended up sticking to this list for most of seasons 3 and 4. 

Now his flaws (in no particular order): 

Impulsivity 

Forgetfulness 

Stubbornness 

Blind devotion 

He’s overcome a lot of these when he was forced to learn them in season 3. His stubbornness to not tell anyone what was happening with the LBD got people hurt. His impulsivity with his actions ended up crashing the ship, and almost sold his family to a goldfish demon.

(Text: Mk's Fault, Good Intentions, Trying mentor)

So he’s had to come up with methods of working around that. Mk’s blind devotion to Wukong almost got Mei killed, and we see how he changes because of it. At the end of season 3, Mk doesn’t explicitly say that he sees Wukong in a new light but he heavily implies it with the metaphor of a bowl of noodles. 

So… Will Mk go crazy and end up hurting his friends? 

I highly doubt it. While I toyed with the idea, Mk is a lot smarter than the fandom usually gives him credit for. He knows Wukong is flawed, and he still trusts in him because he knows Wukong is trying. Mk has faith in Wukong’s strength and the fact that Wukong also heavily values family, even if his isolation makes it a lot harder for him to do so. Just rewatch the ending of season 3 where Wukong apologizes to Mk and watch as Mk comes to the realization that Wukong is trying so hard to make up for his past. (They also drive this point home in season 4 with how disappointed Wukong sounds at himself for not finding Mk in the scroll in the season finale.) 

(Text: He's flawed and trying, Has to accept harsh reality, Dissociating Coping mechanism)

So what about Mk’s impulsivity? I doubt that’d be something that directly harms his friends. He’s worked on his impulsivity by working with others (Redson in season 3 and Mei’s planning in season 4) to help fill in the gaps in his plans. In order for his impulsivity to harm others, you’d have to break that family value first or raise that value of strength and freedom. Most likely this flaw can manifest in Mk overdoing his Monkey form ™  and sending a shockwave that accidentally hurts the people around him.  Probably manifesting either in training or while having fun with Mei (think about how Mk was in the Bad Weather episode). 

Okay, what if Mk is tricked into it like he was in Season 4 (back to the flaw of blind devotion)? Mk has spent every season backstabbed by someone he trusted. We see him snap at Azure after he finds out that he was going to keep Wukong in the scroll. He snaps at Macaque in season 4. It’s safe to say that he’s learned, at least partially, to not trust others so blindly. Mk is also supposed to have gotten the “skill of self-reflection” in “Revenge of the Spider Queen” but his reflecting has mostly just impacted the other flaws. 

(Text: Side note, Monkey Mk doesn't have a nose)

But there is one possibility I toy with, bottled up emotions. Mk has extremely big emotions but hates showing any emotion that can be seen as negative. He loves being happy and he’s not afraid to show it, but as soon as those emotions turn to doubt, anger, or sadness he bottles them up fast. He knows he can rely on his family, but he’s stubborn and thinks that his emotions aren’t worth that hassle. Take the ending of season 3 where Mk states that “he tries not to think too hard” about his own place in the universe, which could be due to a fear of losing the value of freedom if he has a specific role to play in the universe.

(Text: Guys He's so avoidant, forced to think about his identity, 18-early 20's and Identity crisis)

It’s worsened by the fact that every. other. character. avoids. their. emotions. No other characters in this series are open about their emotions except Tang and Sandy. And from season 3 (and a bit of season 4) we know that Mk doesn’t view Tang in an extremely positive light.

Not exactly negative, but his admiration lies more on the rest of the team. Macaque points this out in season 2 stating in “Shadow Play” that Mk should talk out his insecurities, but no one else does that. 

That being said Mk isn’t entirely forgetful either. Macaque was a season 1 villain with his betrayal going through season 3. Mk’s high value of family, and flaw of blind devotion, make him want to give him a chance as Macaque’s past is connected with Wukong’s. HOWEVER, Mk is also stubborn and hasn’t forgiven Macaque’s actions. That’s why he snaps, plus the fact that Macaque is terrible at direct communication. Like I said before, Mk won’t directly hurt anyone he cares about, but if his monkey form is highly connected with his emotions (as most magic tends to be) having those bottled-up insecurities might accidentally cause Mk to unleash more power than he means to.

(Text: Normal, Fed up Meter, rage (on jar))

I have no idea where season 5 is going to go, but I’m so excited about the possibilities. 

(Text: Terrified of his actions hurting his family. UNSTABLE!!!)

[imminent-danger-came]

All 3 monkeys have such abadonment issues. Just Wukong is the only one that hasnt basically stated it outright with words (mk saying he was gonna lose it if someone else left in season 3 finale, literally all of shadowplay)

Sun Wukong: "But don't worry! I'll check in, give you some training tools, remote lessons—ah, you'll figure it out! You'll be great! Don't worry. Monkey King out!" MK: "Fine! Then just leave! At least my friends will never abandon me!"

(2x01 Sleep Bug)

-

MK: "But, I'm not ready for this. I can't face the Lady Bone Demon alone. I just feel so-" Totally Not Macaque: *laughs* MK: "UGH! If you're not gonna help just leave me alone!"

(2x07 Shadow Play)

-

Macaque: "She's completely out of control! If there's a time to go, it's now!" MK: "NO! Mei is my best friend—I'd never abandon her when she needs me!"

(3x10 The Samadhi Fire)

-

MK: "UGH! If one more of my friends flies off today, I'm gonna lose it! The only way we win is together! That's Monkey Kid 101!"

(3x10 The Samadhi Fire)

-

Sun Wukong: "Well it was great seeing you bud, just run off like you always do!" Macaque: "No that's YOU! You're the one always running off! Looking for more power, more sources of immortality—you're the one who wouldn't quit while were were ahead! Not the great sage, he's got to drag EVERYONE else into his mess!"

(4x11 A Life Time of Mistakes)

-

Wukong is more of someone who leaves before he gets left behind, but yeah—this is basically abandonment issues the show.

[imminent-danger-came]

idk your take on fan songs, but was re-listening to Why by Derivakat and it's such a warrior and hero song withe a end of the world vibe

Also Deep Indigo(english cover by Will Stetson) has a "to live is to hurt others" theme with a bit of MK pov mixed in

Fan songs are pretty cool! I am guilty of still listening to "It's Been So Long" by The Living Tombstone, like it really has been so long. I'll never take it off my playlist.

I was surprised to see that there was a Dream SMP fan song, and you know? It's fun. I definitely get a lot of Hero and Warrior vibes, and I also think of Azure:

Look at what you’ve done, is this what you call glory Do you still believe you’re the hero of your story I longed for peace, but you couldn’t leave it be Now you’ve played your part in this forever unfinished symphony

((But like Azure is a Warrior to SWK's Hero anyways so, teehee <3))

And I love Deep Indigo! I'm also a big fan of Hitchcock from Will Stetson.

While watching every step I found that life left one thing at the end A give and take, my friend The love of the young and blind Childish claims to fate throughout our lives [...] And to live is filled with giving and taking Such a simple rule I learned to stop the aching

Like, yeah, "to live is to hurt others" for sure. "No matter what I do it's going to lead to pain." VS "Mistakes happen, but so long as we leave the world a little better than we found it, then it's all good." Definitely an MK song.

[imminent-danger-came]

Your lmk parallels post makes me so unwell there so many angst I can take dude

Though I am hoping for healing arcs in the specials I feel like we're leading up to that but that's just me

LOL I'M SO SORRY.

WE'LL GET OUR HEALING ARCS EVENTUALLY. JUST NOT YET (PROBABLY). This is the hurt comfort long con you feel me.

If it makes you feel better I make myself really unwell with my own posts

[imminent-danger-came]

(thanks for the tag potatey!)

Sun Wukong: "What? You got what you wanted didn't you? Not gonna gloat, monologue a little bit before scurrying off to your master? Go on! The Lady Bone Demon is waiting." Macaque: "I couldn't care less about what the Lady Bone Demon wants!"

(3x09 The King, the Prince, and the Shadow)

So like, both Wukong and Macaque are very focused on freedom, and being able to use that freedom to "get what they want", even to avoid the ultimate chains of death. Macaque became bound to the Lady Bone Demon, and at the first opportunity it seemed like he could escape LBD and live, he took it (i.e. with the Samadhi Fire, or even provoking MK early in s3 to see if he still had power). In this way, both Macaque and Wukong have reached for power for their ultimate freedom, something that is also seen with MK (though MK and Wukong wanted power specifically for others, while Macaque wanted it to protect himself).

I'd also argue that the characters in the show do notice this discrepancy between what Macaque says versus what he actually wants, specifically in 3x13:

Macaque: "Nice speech kid, but it's not gonna-" MK: "Ugh, stop! You keep playing at being this bad guy, acting like you're just in it for you! But I know, deep, deep down, you're not that guy—help us, make it right." Macaque: "I'm not a hero bud." MK: "Then be a warrior!" Macaque: "*laughs* Okay kid, you win."

(3x13 Time to Be Warriors)

Macaque spent all of s3 insisting he wanted to be on the winning side, and in the end he does choose that side—he chooses the side that wins him over. By virtue of letting MK "win", Macaque "loses" his internal battle, an inner conflict that started when MK refused to abandon Mei back in 3x10 ("We're heroes! It's what we do!").

It's this way that MK changes Macaque, completely rewrites his world view, that I think makes MK the monk to Macaque's Wukong. It's an ideology that clashes with LBD:

Lady Bone Demon: "I thought, if I helped someone with real power, guided you to be better, I could make a true difference in the world! But I now see the only true way to create the perfect world, is to start with a clean slate."

LBD eventually believed that the world, and the people in it, were incapable of change. But we know they are. We know that the Monk changed Wukong, and that MK changed Macaque, and by doing so they were able to help make a better world. Not a perfect world, but a better one.

I also think another foils relationship to be considered is the LBD & Macaque / Tripitaka & Wukong relationship dynamics. Team "the world and people can not change" versus team "the world and people can change, and for the better". I think deep down Macaque did want to believe that things could change, he was just so wrapped up in his own misery and cruelty to see beyond his own pain. We see the culmination of this development in 4x10:

Macaque: "Point is, it’s time to start making your own choices—something I wish I would have learned a lot sooner than I did. You don’t want to fight Azure because people might get hurt, you don’t want to not fight him because people might get hurt–so do something else!

"Start making your own choices", start using your freedom. Look for the 3rd choice (being a warrior).

tldr: monkeys

Okay wait wait wait maybe I’m hallucinating but the dialogue in this show tends to parallel each other so like what if when Swk started taunting Mac about “screwing off to your master, the lady bone demon is waiting” like what if Mac before The Monkey Pancakening said something like that to Swk about “running off to the monk” v different context tho of course. Surprised there’s not much commentary abt how Mac literally doesn’t want to be working for Lbd and doesn’t care even after he said he wanted to be on the winning side and already had a taste of death and wasn’t a fan. He says it like nearly every fight. Is this one of those instances where it’s different for the show characters and I only care about the red flags as an outside viewer not getting attacked by a smoke monster 😭

dw anon you're remembering right! parallels in dialogue is a THING™️ in this show and it makes me so unwell (@imminent-danger-came has a plethora of #lmk parallels on their blog. thank you for all your hard work bestie)

that being said: WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU SAY THAT T^T DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID????? DO YOU KNOW THE DAMAGE YOU INFLICTED ON ME?????

but yeah, it would make so much sense to be a callback from what Macky said in the past to swk. it's like his way of throwing memories and Macky's own hypocrisy. he greeted swk by reminding the other about their argument under the mountain. so why not have that other reminder be from swk??? why fucking not!

[imminent-danger-came]

So like, "Sunshine boi who is mentally ill" MK takes don't cut it for me. It's too simple.

Like, yes, of course MK is mentally ill with a self-esteem of wet-paper. But he's also complacent. He has no real motivations out side of saving his friends and maybe the world (which usually line up). He hate's change. He refuses to acknowledge anything that questions his world view. In 4x05 MK says he can just ask Monkey King if he's MK's dad. MK doesn't ask. After they free Wukong he doesn't ask about the curse, or the stone, or the visions of Wukong he saw. Why? Because he doesn't want to acknowledge it. He doesn't want to know about himself. In 4x11, MK pushes Macaque about what happened between him and Wukong, if only to cement Wukong's "good guy" status in his head. In 4x02 he didn't even question risking releasing the curse to save his friends. In 4x08, even after learning about Azure's view of Wukong, this doesn't change's MK's choices. He immediately wants to let Wukong out of the scroll, without considering what the best course of action would be. He just wanted to free Wukong, consequences be damned, even if it meant relying on this strange new power that scares him (which makes him the opposite of Macaque, who couldn't/wouldn't free Wukong from the mountain). This cognitive dissonance upsets MK so much that when Azure presses him about his relationship with Wukong in 4x13, MK snaps. He doesn't want to hurt his friends the way Wukong hurt him ("Can't you see you're hurting the people who care about you the most?" [3x10] and "I can't risk hurting the people I care about, the one's I have left" [4x08]). And yet, MK leaves in 4x08 just like Wukong left in 3x10, hurting his friends in the exact way Wukong hurt him. He always wanted to be more like the legendary Monkey King, and now he is. Now he has all of the worst parts of Wukong in him. Nothing else matters as long as he has his friends by his side. But what if he runs away? What if he pushes them away? What if his friends turn on him, seeing him for the monster he will become? What then?

[imminent-danger-came]

Hot take, but I think MK is only focused on the city/innocent people mainly because of how it contributes to his vision of a "hero". Like yeah, obviously he cares, but he's so much more focused on his own life and his own friends rather than the greater good (which, valid). Like I think of instances like the end of 2x03, where they distinctly don't help clean up after Pigsy's ping-pong relapse, and the fact that we've only seen MK helping strangers TWICE in the whole show (2x05, where he attempts to stop spider queen by aiding who he thinks is an innocent girl, and those old ladies in 4x01, partly a result of his guilt over LBD), and it's just like. My mans is not his own definition of a hero ("We help people! I mean I- I help people!").

In AHIB MK steals a civilian's hover bike, and he didn't give it back (we see it show up again in 1x09). In 1x01 it's "What about my friends? The city? They're all counting on me!", with his friends notably first. In 4x02 Azure highlights "It's too late to save them! We can't risk unleashing the curse into the world!" to which MK replies "You don't know, we'd risk it for sure!". MK has already chosen his friends over the world. He'll do it again. I think of the end of s3 and his words: "The perfect world is what you make it—so as long as I have my friends by my side, this world! Is! Perfect!".

MK has spent the first 4 seasons of this show maintaining the status quo. Unlike the Lady Bone Demon and Azure, who try to bring about real change, MK is reactionary. He has to be pushed into taking action or solving problems. He's fixing what other people break rather than taking a stand himself. MK doesn't embody a typical selfless hero—which, tbh he doesn't need to, it's why I find him so interesting. He's so obsessed with being the hero and being a "good guy" that he's almost missed the trees for the forest.

Like, MK's defining moment as a "hero" who helps others (set up in 2x07) is saving Mei in 3x10. Saving his best friend. The only reason he had the determination to reach out to Mei at all was because she was so close to him. We see something similar to samadhi fire Mei play out in 4x14 with Jade Emperor Azure, and MK doesn't save him. MK let's Wukong stop him from reaching out to Azure. Azure dies.

I love this guy

[imminent-danger-came]

here you go www.reddit.com/r/MonkieKid/comments/1dnuekm/monkie_kid_villain_fates_massive_spoilers_for_all/

(link)

Honestly, I was only able to make it halfway through the first Macaque paragraph before having to stop. This person seems to have one: no concern for the time restraints placed on lmk, and two: no understanding of what the writers find important to focus on versus what they find important to focus on.

Like, complaining that we never went back to the Dragon Palace of the East is a ridiculous criticism to me (and that's as someone who is an Ao Guang fan). We saw that a large portion of the world was taken over by LBD, so it stands to reason the same thing happened to the East Palace, and everything ended up fine after LBD was stopped in 3x14. There were just other (arguably more important) uses of time.

And like, saying "Macaque doesn't try to make amends" is objectively wrong—he is literally a part of the final stand against LBD, putting everything (which for him is his 2nd chance at life) on the line to fight with MK and go along with his plan. That's the arc: Macaque goes from wanting to be "on the winning side" to letting MK "win" (and himself "lose" by proxy). It's the "win/lose" motif man. It was a change brought about from MK refusing to abandon Mei in 3x10—that moment completely upended Macaque's worldview and pulled him outside of his obsession with Wukong.

I kinda skimmed later parts of the rant, and claiming that everyone "immediately forgave" Macaque is also off to me. The way Macaque is treated is the same way the Demon Bull Family has been treated: as long as you're not continuing to cause problems (and sometimes even help solve problems), we don't have issues with you. The MK + the Gang doesn't have a need for "justice" or "retribution" or whatever, because they have more important uses of their time, like trying to live normal lives you know. That's where their goals are.

Though honestly, I loved how bitter MK was towards Macaque in s4 ("Stop! If you're just trying to mess with me" "Oh! Thanks Macaque! Congrats, you went to more effort than usual to make me feel like dirty dirt dirt. Good job, round of applause.") My take from s4 is that MK hadn't let his past with Macaque go. I think post s4-special, as MK is further entrenched in his "good guy" "bad guy" mentality and his need to make Wukong blameless, it wouldn't surprise me if that extends to Macaque, too. Acknowledging Macaque's past wrongs would also mean acknowledging Wukongs, and...well, MK isn't ready for that. Wukong is the legendary Monkey King, and now Macaque's redeemed himself! There are no more issues! (There are definitely issues)

Sooooooooooooooooo we'll just have to see!

[imminent-danger-came]

SWK: “ENOUGH! I’ve never let anyone dictate my destiny in the past, and I’m not about to start now. None of us are! We can’t change who we were yesterday or in a past life, or a hundred life times ago! We live with the choices we’ve made, for what matter is the choices we make RIGHT NOW! Only we decide who we are and what we do with the power we have.”

(4x07 Pitiful Creatures)

A beautiful addition someone in the notes reminded me should be included here

WHICH ALSO RELATES TO

LBD: “Your attempts are futile Sun Wukong. I have seen what the future has in store for you and your protege. Destiny can NOT-”

(3x11 This Imperfect Wolrd)

WHICH THEN ALL TIES BACK TO

Curse MK: We’re just like Wukong. A fraud! A trickster! Destructive! Why would our legacy be any different? Actually, no no- the chaos and destruction we’ll bring upon the world will make Wukong’s past look like nothing. Shifu Subodhi said it himself right?” MK: “No, no you’re wrong I’m- I’m, I’M NOT-” Curse MK: “Not what!? Some monkey demon thing destined to bring chaos upon the world? Come on, use your words big brain boy! SAY IT.” (4x07 Pitiful Creatures)

Which of course echoes the sentiment Macaque has of MK in 2x07:

Macaque: “Ah MK, you really are dense, aren’t you. Haha, you saw a story about a hero who got handed everything, who didn’t have to work for anything, and you thought you were the other guy? The second the hero got real power, he couldn’t care less about his friends. That’s you bud.”

MK: “Me? I-I-I’m not like that!”

Macaque: “Hmmm. I beg to differ kiddo.”

(2x07 Shadow Play)

WHICH THEN IS IN DIRECT CONTRAST TO

Macaque: “You don’t want to fight Azure because people might get hurt, you don’t to not fight him because people might get hurt--so do something else! Only you get to decide who you are kiddo.”

(4x10 The Jade Emperor)

LIKE GOD. HOW DO THEY DO IT. HOW DO THE WRITERS DO IT HUH?

MK: “Not everything is black and white! Sometimes, we need to use our power to protect people we care about!”

Tripitaka: “Bu- bu- but, all earthly connections must be put aside in order to-”

MK: “It’s never easy, but being there for your friends when they need you is what being a hero is all about!”

(4x03 The Great Tang Man)

-

Mei: “What’s the point of having power if you won’t use it? Don’t you have people you want to protect?”

Ao Lie: “Of course I do! But I can’t protect them with careless actions!”

Mei: “Inaction is careless! If you’re not giving everything you have to protect the people you care about, you are nothing! I would watch my sword shatter into pieces a thousands times, so long as I used it to protect the ones I care about.”

(4x05 Court of the Yellow Robed Demon)

-

Azure Lion: “You saw it with your own eyes! His betrayal, his brutality—he took the only friends I had from me. I would have done anything in my power to bring them back. But it wasn’t in my power—it was in yours.”

(4x08 The Brother Hood)

-

Power and protecting those you care about.