#1689 hob
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banancrumbs Β· 2 years ago
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comforting stranger
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valiantstarlights Β· 5 months ago
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*turns up the brightness as high as it can go* man I can't believe Hob did a strip tease for Dream in 1689
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emihotaru Β· 7 months ago
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And this one is done too!
I had a great time painting them, they came quite easily!
Here are 1689 Dream of the Endless and Hob Gadling, from the Sandman fanfic "Giving Sanctuary", by @avelera
Did I said "no more water" in one of my last drawing? I can't remember (I love bath scenes, ok??)
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avelera Β· 2 years ago
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Sandman Meta: Hob has exactly zero way of figuring out who Dream is (before they reunite)
More than once in a fic I've written from Hob's POV I've had readers note their astonishment that Hob has not yet figured out Dream's identity, even if Dream does not reveal it himself.
Even in fics of mine where Dream reveals his name, like in Giving Sanctuary, I have Hob be slow on the uptake when it comes to the extent of Dream's powers, even things like being able to enter and control dreams, and the reason I do this is carefully considered and based in the fact that Hob would have no way of knowing who Dream is or by extension what he can do.
So I kind of want to take a step back and address in detail just how actually impossible it would be, objectively, for Hob to figure out who Dream is in a world that doesn't have The Sandman comic for him to read to figure it out.
This is, of course, because, from a Doylist angle, Neil's "Dream of the Endless" is not based in any single mythology. Indeed, Dream as we know him is cobbled together from at least three or more different mythological figures, none of which combine to actually form the "Dream of the Endless" we see in the show or read in the comics. The Endless are completely made up for the comic and the Sandman, Morpheus, and Oneiros are all from wildly different mythologies and none of them actually overlap to form the complete picture of who Dream is as an entity in the Sandman show or comic.
So even if someone straight-up told Hob that the person he meets is the Sandman, Morpheus, or Oneiros (btw, there is no singular figure of "Oneiros" in Greek mythology) he would still not be able to put together the full picture of who Dream is. Even if he's given the name "Dream of the Endless" to work with, those words combined don't mean anything on their own if you don't have what an Endless is filled in, because it was made up entirely for the comic. (Of course, a fanfic author absolutely could make up such a book for their fic but it would be a creation for that fic, serving a purpose within that story like to tip Hob off, though I think it's entirely reasonable to make up a book in the Sandman world that goes into detail on who the Endless are. The Magdalene Grimoire, btw, is not that book. It only talks about Death. Death is a figure in many mythologies including the Christian one, but Dream is not. Even Burgess needs the Corinthian to tell him who Dream is in the show, and he's an occultist.)
Couple all of this with Hob's personal experience with Dream, encountering him as part of a wager with Dream's sister Death to see if Hob could bear a life of immortality, you get far more clues that would send him hurtling off into a totally incorrect direction before you'd get anything close to the truth, if we assume only the books available in our world are available to him.
So the reason this is a bit of an irritation for me that there's this idea that Hob has "all the clues" to figure out who Dream is because it smacks of a logical fallacy.
Basically, it's easy to see that the answer to a complicated math problem is "obvious" if someone just hands the answer to you. But challenging people to actually solve it themselves could be quite a bit more complicated. And in this complex formula solving for "Who the fuck is Hob's mysterious stranger?" there's actually so many blank X's of unanswered questions that I genuinely think there's no way for Hob to solve this equation without someone giving him the answer.
Let's go through this systematically, using just what Hob knows as observed on screen in the show.
1389 - a pale man in all black with a ruby at his throat approaches Hob's table and challenges Hob to meet him there in 100 years. He then smiles enigmatically and leaves.
That's it. That's all Hob has to go off of. He never sees Death, he has no idea about the wager. As far as he knows, Dream gave him immortality. It would be the most logical conclusion given that the day before Hob didn't have immortality and the day after, presumably, he does.
1489 - The only confirmation he has is actually seeing Dream there in 1489 and the first thing he asks is, "How did you know that I'd be here?"
Dream does not answer him. Hob takes a few stabs at guessing his identity which reveals his Christian European context: are you a wizard, or a saint -- to be clear, these are two types of human magic users that make sense to Hob for his context. The only other figure he can think of is The Devil. He doesn't ask if Dream is a pagan god or a faerie, he assumes a man with arcane or divine magic, or the Devil.
Dream says that he's not the Devil, much good that would do if he was a Devil who could just presumably lie to Hob, and says he's interested in Hob's experience and implies that he will grant him another 100 years of life. He is sarcastic and unimpressed about Hob's wonder at the world. He doesn't even actually show much interest in Hob being in the printing business. He only shows a spark of interest in Hob's continued desire to live, and then immediately takes off.
1589 - The only new information Hob gets this year is 1) Dream is supremely uninterested in food or the wealth Hob has earned, or his family, and 2) puny little Will Shaxberd, a crap playwright with no shot at becoming anything more, suddenly becomes a famous playwright. He would eventually become a renowned playwright in his day but keep in mind, Shakespeare didn't actually become mega famous centuries after his death. In his day, many people thought other playwrights like Marlowe were better.
My point is, from this Hob doesn't necessarily get even the pieces to determine that Dream likes art. It might seem obvious to us because Dream is Prince of Stories, but that's not the offer Dream gives Shaxberd. He just asks if it is Will's will to create dreams to spur the minds of men. Yes, we know that Dream wants Will to make dreams for him, but in Hob's context, Dream is just asking what Will would sell his soul for, just like he overheard Hob saying he had no intention of dying. From this perspective the only strong conclusion Hob can draw is that Dream grants wishes.
From this, Hob could conclude that Dream is a djinn/genie, or perhaps a faerie, but there is absolutely nothing to indicate he's associated with dreams or literature directly besides a mention of creating dreams nested in the context of asking Shaxberd what he wants, giving him a supernatural gift much like the one Hob believes Dream gave him.
At this point, the domains of Dream's power are very muddled for Hob because he doesn't know Death gave him immortality. So as far as he knows, Dream can give immortality AND make an amateur playwright into the greatest writer who ever lived. Putting these two things together does not bring you naturally to the domain of dreams by any stretch.
(I will note here, that in Giving Sanctuary, I had Hob learn that "Death" is Dream's sister before he learns Dream's name. There, his initial conclusion is that Dream must therefore be Famine, one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and the one known for wearing black (and not eating seems like a clue with Dream too) my point being that having another, small piece of the whole puzzle still would probably send him flying off in the wrong direction given his cultural context.)
1789: The next time Hob gets any hint that Dream has powers is with Lady Johanna. He uses his sand to show her her, "old ghosts". Note, she does not fall asleep but rather begins to hallucinate.
The Sandman myth has its origins of Scandinavia and it is first written down in in "Der Sandmann" a context that Hob might have access to, if he's very well read, in the early 1800s. By the way, the description of the Sandman in that book bears a striking resemblance to the Corinthian, because he eats the eyes of naughty children, and very little to Dream beyond the use of sand in his magic.
There is absolutely nothing to link the Sandman to Morpheus the Roman God of Dreams, who was made up entirely by Ovid in the Metamorphoses and never mentioned anywhere before that. That's because Neil Gaiman was the first to link those two mythological figures.
And on that note, there is no Oneiros attested to in Hesiod. The mention of Oneiros is actually to the "Oneiroi" an entire tribe of dreams and nightmares who are the children of Night (Nix). There's Hypnos (Sleep) who is the brother of Thanatos (Death) but that is about as close as we get to the Endless in any other mythological source besides the comics. And again, Dream does not put Johanna to sleep, he makes her hallucinate.
1889- Again, there is precious little to go off of. Dream is tight-lipped as ever. The only thing he gives away is that Lady Johanna later helped him with a task, a fact Hob is visibly annoyed and I daresay jealous about, and when he lashes out he refers to himself as, "One such as I."
But "One such as I," only reveals something Hob already knew: that Dream thinks highly of himself. That doesn't actually reveal that Dream is even magical, he could just be nobility or a powerful immortal magic user and refer to himself that way. Hob already knows that Dream is magical, and immortal, and probably some sort of high born or aristocrat. He's probably known that since 1389 given how Dream was dressed and given that giant fuck-off ruby (which actually might make Hob, in that day, wonder if Dream was a relation to the Black Prince)
That's it. That is the grand total of everything Hob has seen of Dream.
Hob in the comic will eventually admit, in The Wake, that he figured out who Dream was on his own. But this is after Seasons of Mist when Dream toasts him in Hob's dream and Hob wakes up with the impossible bottle of wine on his bedside. He has another encounter too with Dream where Dream eventually accedes to Hob's request to make the men who killed Audrey, his dead girlfriend, know who she was. Presumably, Dream makes them dream of her.
So Hob in the comics by the time we get to The Wake has more to go off of to make the link to the Lord of Dreams. Hob as we see him in the show, has had much less to go off of.
Even if you give Hob one piece of the puzzle, like one of the names like Morpheus, or The Sandman, or Oneiros, that still doesn't help give him the whole picture. The word "Endless" would be meaningless. He would have to have read at least three pretty obscure books that span a period of 2,000 years (between Hesiod and Der Sandmann) to get the three books that Neil primarily drew from to combine these figures into the Dream of the comic.
Look, my point is, unless someone gives the answer to Hob, and explains the full extent of what the Endless are, he's got little to go off of. Arguably, not enough at all to solve for "X" as to who Dream is, even if he's given more pieces. This would be a tough problem to solve.
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achillesuwu Β· 2 years ago
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Random thought I just had but when you think about it it's actually not that surprising that Hob waited for Dream in 1989. That he thought he would be there. Why? Because technically 1889 is in some way their second fight.
In 1589, Dream left without looking back and without a proper meeting and yet, in 1689 he is there first. What does Hob tell him as soon as he sees him? "I knew you would be there"
So what did Hob do in 1989? He did what his stranger did last time they had a fight. He came first and waited because his stranger must know that he will be there
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mayhemspreadingguy Β· 2 years ago
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β€œIf I had known that I was always doomed to lose him so young…That there was nothing I could do to change his fate…” Dream swallowed and when he spoke again the unshakeable calm of his voice wavered and finally broke, β€œI would have told him how I loved him, each day when he woke and each night while he dreamed. I would have embraced Eurydice as if she were my own daughter. I would have danced at their wedding.”
β€œI know,” Hob tightened his arms around Dream. β€œI know you would have.”
Giving Sanctuary by @avelera
This fic absolutely destroyed me! One of my favourites! Love it! πŸ’•
I had it marked for later and avoided to read it because at the time it was already considerably long and I didn't really have the time for it (I have no self-control I'm hopeless binge reader so it would totally fuck up my schedule). I decided to read it not long ago aaaand then I caught up... to chapter 18 😭. WHY WHYYY WHAT A TERRIBLE TIME TO CATCH UP!?!??!!!
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writing-for-life Β· 11 months ago
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Michael Zulli: Death, Dream and Hob
Now, I know fandom bends over backwards to make this about Dreamling and often slots its meaning in during/after The Wake (or at least hinting at it because of the meeting with Death), but I honestly can’t see it?
I personally believe we need to step back a bit here and consider that this was painted long before the TV show, and Dreamling wasn’t really a thing (at least not in these epic proportions, plus it was always fanon, not canon), hence we can’t really do art analysis through that lens.
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If you just put the 1689 meeting (also drawn by Zulli) right next to it, it becomes, at least to me, so blatantly obvious that it is set in the same timeframe. Hob wears nearly identical clothes, so does Dream (also, some of the original comics have been recoloured).
The woman at the table next to them holding the mask? Hm, there’s a famous artwork by Colleen Doran in which Death holds a mask, and she definitely seems to be listening in here. Which she might, considering the conversation Dream and Hob had in 1689. Could obviously also just be a random person covering up smallpox scars 🀣
In the grand scheme of things, I don’t think it matters so much whether Hob already met Death or not and would recognise her, it’s the symbolism of talking to her at this point more than anything.
So would it be totally outlandish to think the missing glass is also for Eleanor? Hence the red roses as well, because Zulli hardly ever uses red roses for Dream apart from one exception (he does so for Daniel though)β€”they tend to be blue and always hold connotations to grief, I wrote about this before. Or better: Symbolic for all those who aren’t at the table with him? And that’s why Death is there? Both for those she has taken, but also because this is very obviously the point where Hob is at his lowest and might rethink. 
I think we really have to think about where Hob is in his life here and not erase Eleanor and his kids again. β€œTo absent friends AND lost loves”, right?
And I can’t look at that angel holding the table and not get references to pregnancy/childbirth (Eleanor and the second baby died during childbirth).
As for the raven looking away/pointing away from the table: Foreboding? Because apart from being Dream’s ravens, ravens were also associated with Apollo, who was also the god of prophecy and an oracle himself. That’s why Apollo himself eventually released Orpheus from his existence as oneβ€”long story (plus, Aristeas, who was also Dream’s raven, was Apollo’s raven in Greek mythology. Plus Apollo was also Orpheus’ father in some retellings. It’s all interwoven, but I feel the foreboding is a significant thing here for exactly that reason).
And foreboding-foreboding, of course Death and Hob meet again, and by that time, Morpheus will be gone, and the missing glass is also for himself.
I wrote about Zulli and his symbolism a few times, it’s all linked in my pinned post, but the ruins are one of the less subtle references:
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notallsandmen Β· 1 year ago
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harukaspiegel Β· 2 years ago
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Doodle time! I'm very obsessed with 1689!Dream. I'm sorry.
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blogoftheendless Β· 2 years ago
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Hob definitely is an amazing cook, the type that has ALL the spices and knows how to use them. Sometime after 1689 when he was getting his life together he ended up on a Dutch spice trade ship, and spent a decade in the Spice Islands learning everything there was to know about aromatics. He never lost his Medieval penchant for using a ton of pepper and ginger in everything. He can’t believe how cheap spices are now! Every time Dream deigns to try the food he makes him in the Waking, Dream’s pale human guise turns bright pink at how spicy it is. Hob’s house smells like cinnamon and cardamon all the time. Feeding others is his love language. 
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strandhai Β· 2 years ago
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1689 Hob Gadling: me
Dream of the Endless: creativemayhem_ (IG)
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valiantstarlights Β· 1 year ago
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artmill-danaan Β· 2 years ago
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Training work
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avelera Β· 2 years ago
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Giving Sanctuary (170551 words) by Avelera - COMPLETE Chapters: 23/23 Fandom: The Sandman (TV 2022), The Sandman (Comics) Rating: Explicit Relationships: Dream of the Endless/Hob Gadling Series: Part 1 of Giving Sanctuary (<- Subscribe here for when sequel drops!) Summary: In 1689, Hob Gadling and Dream meet once more, after Hob has lost everything. That night, their meeting goes on longer than expected when the conversation turns to what it means to live, to lose, and to be the fathers of dead sons. Unable to bear the thought of sending a man who so echoes Dream's own grief back into the night alone, Dream breaks his own rule and invites Hob to stay with him for a time, at least until he can get back on his feet. The story of two grief-stricken, divorced, and widowed fathers to sons they lost too young truly seeing one another and there, at their lowest point, doing their best to put themselves and each other back together.
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It's done, just in time for Dream and Hob's anniversary! Remember, I'm posting the core story of GS as its own fic, but after 1689 we've got an extended epilogue / sequel "Keeping Sanctuary" that will be posted in the series. It will show Dream and Hob through the ages, and how the 1689 meeting going just a few hours longer changed their destinies forever. Stay tuned!
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seadeepspaceontheside Β· 2 months ago
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Its bad when Bruce is less of a party pooper than you. And I do believe that Dream fell in love with Hob in 1689 but not pursue it. You can dispute it but I will not be listening.
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emihotaru Β· 10 months ago
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Hiiiiiii
Some Hob Gadling and Dream I made today! I want to draw a loooot of domestic fluff with those two, I want to draw some fanfic scene, some love, some 1389/1489/1589/1689/1789/1889 and 1989 scenes, and a little angst too!
I've red soooo many beautiful fanfics lately, I want to draw from them soooo much!
I hope you'll let me do it, dear authors!
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