#0 morals and 0 redeeming qualities

[trophyposting]

this is an extremely unpopular opinion in the osc and like everywhere actually but i hate it when people excessively hate on "mean" characters. like especially when the characters are otherwise well-written and they just hate them because they did some bad shit. its legitimately so annoying

[notebooks-and-laptops]

Why the Dragon King Sucks: an Exploration of What Makes a Good Villain and a satisfying Story Conclusion

Dragon Age as a franchise has some of my favourite villains, and also villains I think kinda suck. DATV is not immune to this; Ghilan'nain joins the ranks as one of my favourite villains of the series but there is one villain I can't stand. I get mad just thinking about him. And so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

So firstly, before we can unpack why a villian sucks, we must first unpack what makes a good villain. Contrary to popular belief I don't think a villain needs to be a fully dimensional person to be compelling, but I do think good villains generally fall into one of three categories:

Interesting because of the relationship to the hero/protagonist

Interesting because we understand their point, or because of moral complexity/ambiguity

Interesting because they're scary as all hell

Dragon age has dabbled in all of these types of villians.

The example of a villian who is interesting because of their relationship to the hero/protagonist is Danarius. Danarius is flat out evil with 0 redeeming qualities. His main motivation is to a) experiment on his slaves and b) recapture his favourite escaped slave. We know he regularly tortures and kills people. We don't even meet him until act 3! BUT his relationship to Fenris makes him work. He is everywhere in Fenris's narrative; from the house Fenris lives in, to the actions Fenris takes (he won't even be with you until hes dealt with Danarius), to the feeling that Fenris is being constantly hunted. Danarius is terrifying to Fenris, the things Fenris did FOR Danarius is terrifying to Fenris (killing the Fog Warriors), all of this makes both us AND Fenris angry. When he shows up he's menancing because he's been built up the WHOLE game. He works because of his relationship to Fenris.

Let's move onto a villian who is interesting due to their moral complexity. There were a few to pick from here, but I think ultimately I'm going to go with the Arishock (but shout outs in particular to Calpurnia, Zathrian, Illario and Isseya). The Arishock undoubtedly does some pretty evil stuff, and yet we UNDERSTAND him. He does not want to be in Kirkwall, yet he cannot leave until he gets what he needs. He wants to be peaceful, but is being pushed by the constant way that his people are being agitated; stolen from, blamed, tricked and manipulated by chantry zealots. He doesn't understand why kirkwall is allowed to function as it does when it leads to such misery/pain for everyone. He's very reasonable with a Hawke who is reasonable back and respects them. The thing that tips him over the edge is the fact that he's unwilling to hand over elves that the guards refused to bring justice for, and most people agree that the guards were in the wrong there. Nobody thinks the Arishock should have tried to take over Kirkwall, killing the Viscount and trying to take Isabela. But we UNDERSTAND why he might be doing what he's doing and THAT makes him compelling.

Final category; when a villain is scary. I think writers sometimes confuse this for the villain having a lot of power (*cough* Elganarn *cough*) but that's not what scary is. Scary is usually invoked by feeling that the hero/protagonist is under genuine threat if they were caught or feeling that this person will do fucked up things and has no line; even about people they care about. Absolute main dragon age villian to sit here is Branka who went so mad in her pursuit of the anvil she was willing to let her house be turned into Brood Mothers so they could pump out darkspawn who could test the traps. Ghilan'nain is also in this category.

To make an EXCELLENT villain you probably want to take a few strands from each collum; Loghain stands out here as someone who has a connection to our of our heros (Alistair's revenge quest) but also is morally understandable/interesting.

So now I've laid all that out...tell me. Where does the dragon king fit?

The dragon king doesn't really have a connection to Taash. They want Taashs blood sure but they only make two plays for Taash the whole game and Taash never seems scared of them. We don't find out why or what they want to do to Taash. Taash just. Doesn't know this guy. Like until the very end when he kills their mum, they don't have a reason to hate him.

The dragon king is not morally complex either. He is just. An evil guy working for an evil god who wants power. He's not got a particular point; he's not even like the red templars who at least had the motivation that the chantry had abandoned them and led them to be addicts for no reason. Theres no talk of that being the case with the antam. There is just. Nothing. He's some evil guy.

And finally, he's not scary. He's in fact so un-scary that our protagonists never ever get to fight him because he'd make a shit boss. I think this is a WILD choice. what I think happened was the Devs realised that as the other Taash quests had involved fighting dragons that should be their boss fight but like. What? I literally was so confused when this happened; I wondered if the dragon king could turn into a dragon for a moment or was riding the dragon but it's not that. We kill a dragon and don't even throw so much as a single spell or punch at the dragon king.

AND to make matters worse, we don't meet him until the very end and Taash doesn't really talk about him until then either. Varric narrator style mentions him and that's it. If you're not going to introduce your villian until late in the game you NEED to have build up like what we get for Denarias or Branka or Meredith. That's the whole issue with Corphyeus that everyone bangs on about; he's just not in the narrative enough to carry the feeling that he's an undefeatable big bad.

The dragon king is so boring. There's just. Nothing there. There's no relationship, there's no complexity. Just an evil guy.

And that makes me so annoyed considering that I love Taash and also that the voice acting when Taash's mum dies is so stunning. Taash deserved better than most of the plotlines they got, they deserved a better villian and they deserved choices beyond those that demonised multiculturalism. They don't even need a villain if you do their story right; many dragon age characters have no central villain and are still incredibly interesting: Sera, Blackwall, Vivienne, Cole, Wynne, Bull, Bethany, Carver, Sten to name just a few.

Tblr; the dragon king SUCKS

[thecoolergoj]

Made a morality tier list of the Fear and Hunger characters

Just to elaborate, the "sinner" tier is for characters that aren't bad people per se, but are relatively okay with murder (to varying degrees)

Oh, and since the template i used didn't have them, here are some bonuses:

The Girl - has done nothing wrong

Le'garde - redeeming qualities > 0

Moonless - has done nothing wrong

Nas'hrah - not a good person (bordering on <0)

Black Kalev - not a good person

[averysherwood]

I am a fan of Boscha and really didn't like her treatment in FTF and by the fandom. I wrote this in a period of very intense emotion. Even if you choose not to reply to this, I'd like to share it with someone - I've been keeping it for months.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FdIy0iByG7iYw7fMVenyLZydCF9ds9uPSxGk4WICvCw/edit?tab=t.0

Please read it.

I actually liked what you've written, thank you for sharing this! That's how most likely all these moments looked like from Boscha's point of view.

Especially her relationship with Amity. I can't remember if I've ever written about this here or not, but I've always thought that it was kinda... questionable, the fact that Amity just left her friend group and never tried to make them go with her, become better people as she did (not really, but that's for another discussion). She was shown as 100% good and right for just leaving Boscha and Skara, and maybe it wasn't the worst thing to do if she wanted to change, but the way she did it... It was so abrupt. It seems like she didn't have any moral dilemma, didn't care about their feelings at all, just left like they are no one. They weren't really her friends, but for so many years, she would have become attached to them at least. It doesn't make her look good.

But back to Boscha. I actually think that she was meant to be redeemed, because she not only had that moment in the end of ftf, she is also in Luz's quinceanera. If she was still an irredeemable bitch as fandom likes to see her, she would've been cut from the the timeskip just like Odalia, Adrian and others. But she didn't. And I think that there was much better way to handle her "off screen redemption". Writers could've get rid of this useless conflict with Willow and Kiki and just put the whole "i just what things to go back" in the beginning when Hexquad visits Hexside. She could've been already a leader who used her strong qualities for good this time (like Sasha). We could've been shown that students trust her now, because she had shown that she is with them this time, and that she understood that she can get recognition and respect she always needed not by threatening, but by earning actual it. It would would make it better for her character and would also save time for much more important things like main characters's development, Belos and so on.

[cjbolan]

Honestly the issue with the GOT fandom is that they see everything in black and white, when the whole point of GOT and HOTD is that they're all morally grey characters. Yes, this person both has redeeming and endearing qualities while also doing objectively bad things. Yes, this character is cruel and wicked to people he doesn't care about but is genuinely loyal to those he does. They just can't grasp nuance.

Like one weird example was how people actually DEFENDED Aemond for chasing Luke and Arrax with Vhagar "because Luke bullied him as a kid and blinded his eye!" Yes, we're supposed to *EMPATHIZE* with his motivations while not *SYMPATHIZING* with his actions. We know his emotional reason for doing something while understanding what he did was bad. And while the whole incident was an accident, Aemond was still fully at fault for teasing his cousin with what was essentially a flying tank with a mind of her own.

Agreed.

I partly blame the GOT writers for this , as they turned all their morally grey characters purely good or purely evil after Season 4. If the GOT writers show 0 nuance then no doubt they will attract fans who think the same way.

Compared to GOT, HOTD’s characters are much more morally grey. The only purely good character in HOTD who’s still alive is Helaena.

And you’re right; Aemond should’ve known better. He should’ve known he could easily get Lucerys killed, even if he didn’t want that. And it doesn’t help that Aemond shows 0 remorse for killing him.

[insufferableprotagonistpoll]

Semifinals

Propaganda why Oscar is insufferable:

"“I want to be famous!” Ok, what for? “Whatever means I don’t have to work.”"

"Selfish, shallow, vain, materialistic, reckless, irresponsible, etc. Doesn't even have an aesthetically pleasing design, he's horrible to look at (like every other character in the movie tbf) so bro has literally 0 redeeming qualities. That one shrimp with the ridiculous sob story should have been the protag instead"

"His entire personality revolves around being shallow and selfish, to the point he sees no issue with lying for his own material gain, in the process shamelessly screwing over his best friend/future girlfriend -- she gave him her grandmother's valuable precious pearl to pay off his debts and get out of trouble, because she cares about him, and instead he fucking gambled it all on a horse race on impulse because he overheard some rando saying the race was rigged and guaranteed to win (surprise, it wasn't). Never really faces appropriate consequences for any of his actions. Gets an undeserved happy ending to top it all off, when really he deserves to suffer a little and learn a lesson.

Also has one of the ugliest anthro-animal designs I've ever seen so he's insufferable to even LOOK at, jesus christ."

Propaganda why Richard Rahl is insufferable:

"The character always, always has to be Right and Moral and Good. He always knows more than: his wife, organized religion, any and all government orders that he didn't set up personally. While he starts out reasonable enough in the first few books, he slowly devolves into the author's Ayn Rand-fantasy stand-in. In every book there's always a huge monologue that's secretly about how bad (fantasy) communism is.

Richard is also hypocritical. He will flip flop on issues and change with the whims of the author, but the narrative always portrays him as in the right no matter the context."

"Protagonist of the most idiotic book series ever, literally wins by sheer dumb luck and being too stupid to plan as the world bends around him. His girlfriend keeps getting kidnapped so he can rescue her, despite allegedly being powerful. He’s a fantasy Ayn Rand follower. He inherited a sword and the Most Powerful Magic Combination Ever which he can’t be trained in because he needs to learn by instinct. Every woman ever falls in love with him or is determined to help him by prophecy. He gets captured and tortured by several bdsm women (author fetish, blatantly) and doesn’t even appreciate it. He gradually seizes more and more control over he world than even his evil tyrant dad, then throughs a fit and runs off into the woods to sulk, leaving them to a violent conquest, when people object to this via voting. He’s inexplicably good at death football. I can keep going."

"Literally the oc in the author’s shitty Ayn Rand fantasy novel. All the women want him, he does magic by instinct. He cannot be trained because he has super rare magic that nobody else has had for millenia. His birth has been prophecied for centuries. Every new book features a new problem only he can solve by being too instinctly good at magic and untrained. He comes up with the Wizard’s Rules of Magic by dumb luck.

In one book he defeats communism and hopelessness by crafting the perfect statue of his girlfriend Kahlan, who is a way cooler character but still a Mary Sue & an idiot. The statue is so cool & beautiful & well made for the joy of making (unlike work under communism), that he sparks a riot and toppled the evil empire. By building a statue."

[is-the-owl-video-cute]

I feel like when people say that Hogwarts legacy is morally grey, they forget that there has to be something good about it to be gray. Not even the quality of the game is good. There are 0 redeeming qualities. Even if you isolate any particular problem, its still bad. Take out the antisemitism? Still a game that's pro slavery. Take out the slavery too? Well, its not the same game now.

I’m hitting people calling it morally gray with my car. This action is morally gray because on one hand it’s murder but on the other hand there’s less antisemites now.

[starmeadowsystem]

Nif-Point Moral Scale

Because I am an absolutely ridiculous individual, I have devised a 100 (DEC36)-point scale for the morality of fictional characters that takes advantage of the Seximal numeric system by using exactly 2 digits to their fullest.

Here's how it goes:

the scale only uses the numbers 0-5. Both digits are displayed no matter what.

As the extremes, 00 and 55 are specifically for Complete Monsters and Pure of Hearts, respectively.

The system uses a Seximal numbering system so that the first digit can break the scale into 6 segments, and the second can break each segment into sub-segments. From best to worst are as follows:

5X- Strongly Good

4X- Good

3X- Grey, leaning Good

2X- Grey, leaning Evil

1X- Evil

0X- Strongly Evil

Factors that go into the scale are as follows:

Actions committed, both Good and Bad. This also includes whether or not they stand out against other characters in general, as well as in the same work and in-universe systems they operate with. I also want to judge the impact said actions have on the story, take their resources into account, etc.

Redeeming and Corrupting qualities. Subversions of said qualities are taken into account.

Moral Agency. If a character has things hindering their capabilities to make moral choices, then they get pulled towards Grey. If they completely lack moral agency, then they are incapable of being ranked.

The tone of their character. If they're Evil, but their presence somehow lightens the tone of the work (both through comedic moments and sympathy), that would give them points. By contrast, if they're Good but they personally darken the tone, that would deduct points.

Characters' rankings would be decided through two polls- one to indicate the first number, and one to indicate the second. This can only apply to fictional characters. No Real-Life people are allowed period. Re-Evaluations are allowed if people call for it. Efforts to evaluate characters may be decentralized.

Now that I have thrown this out there, have fun arguing whether your blorbo is a 43 or 44!

[edwinspaynes]

bottom 5 tsc books and characters

Do you want me to get flayed open?

Books (worst to best, subjective):

Queen of Air and Darkness

Lord of Shadows

City of Fallen Angels

Lady Midnight

City of Bones (though I concede that it is fun and I do enjoy it. It's just one of Cassie's weakest books, which is GOOD since it was the first one)

Characters (worst to best, subjective):

This is hard because obviously I hate, like, Sebastian as a person. But I think he's a great villain. This means that I am not going to include him. This list is not going to be the objectively worst people in TSC. It's my subjective least favourite characters. So It's going to be characters that I dislike based on a wide variety of factors. I'll explain myself next to each of them, but note that I understand they are not the worst people ever (unless they are).

Zara and Horace Dearborn. Atrocious one-dimensional villains. They're awful people and they have literally 0 layers or redeeming qualities. I'm lumping them together because they're basically one entity. I'm comfortable saying that they're my least favourite characters on both an objective and subjective level. Kill them.

J*lian Bl*ckthorn. Censoring his name because he has actual fans. He had enormous potential as a morally gray antihero. Would have probably thought he was a great character if he had gone dark. But he's just an absolutely awful guy that cc wants us to love and adore. He and Emma are super codependent. He's a toxic dickwad. He drugs his disabled uncle. He fucks over a vampire who was just selling some pizza. I was deadass surprised when he was worse soulless. Cassie botched his execution by making him a Good Guy and taking away his complexities at the end to make him a Pancake Dad. Horrible guy, horrible arc, mismanaged. Also, we're clearly supposed to love and adore him, which I resent.

[Redacted because I do not dare, but if you know me, you know]. Literally 0 interesting traits. No real development despite untethered potential. Too popular in the fandom. Too obviously The #1 Favourite of the creator. Way too much content but none of it gives them substance. Not an interesting character in any capacity, and if you do not love the character, you are deemed the Worst Person. This character actively ruins content for me. I have their name blocked on every social media platform. I'd get along with them in real life, and I like them in certain situations, but please free me from the content and social pressure that they present.

(and 5). Charles Fairchild and Elias Carstairs. I'm lumping them together because I have the exact same feelings for both of them. If I were given the chance to personally stab one TSC character, it would be one of them. They were abusive to my fave and they deserve to die for that. But I can't say I wish them out of the TSCverse because I think they're necessary backstory for Alastair, and they helped to shape him into the character that I love and cherish. So I am happy that they exist as characters, but I hate them as people and very much have a personal vendetta against them. I would yeet them from the universe if they were real because it would spare Alastair suffering. I will defend my son with my life.

[lycanpunk666]

I love making the most evil characters ever. Like legitimately disgusting and morally reprehensible. 0 redeeming qualities

[anonymous-gambito]

Comic Ambrosius has 0 redeeming qualities and it *was* a toxic relationship. The movie fixes that. Every single one of them is correct and most people who like the movie hate the comic because we're sick of abuse being called representation. Hope that helps.

Media made for toddlers is always there if you want something that has to 100% represent real life morals and is too scared that its audience will drink laundry detergent just because they saw someone do it in a cartoon, but not everybody has to be like that. I'm sick of creators being called evil abusers just because they wanted to explore barely there dark themes in their work. Cishet people get to be anything in media, but fuck forbid a queer character be morally gray or complex in any way, fuck forbid any queer story be anything but pure fluff pastel colored hand holding where everyone makes the right decisions always and whose trauma just makes them soft and sad and fuck forbid them be that too because even stories like that are still accused of being "fetishizing". Fiction is meant to tell stories, explore themes, including those about the complexities of a human's mind and experiences, not to be a reflection of perfect morality and perfect people meant as propaganda to get the masses to "behave".

I'm not saying this because I think it's wrong to like shows made for toddlers, or that people can't be uncomfortable with anything, but I loath the push for everything to follow this same formula, to conform to the same arbitrary standard. Horror has to be "cozy" because we can't have the uncomfortable-unsettling-things genre actually have uncomfortable unsettling things. Drama has to be easily digestible and trauma has to be pretty. The person with the most fucked up childhood has to make all the right choices, instinctively have all the right opinions and not be messed up in any way or else they don't deserve anything good in life ever even if they try to change and do better (unless they're completely woobified by the fandom, and hell if I know why it happens to certain characters while others just get completely demonized instead). So yes, if even ND Stevenson's work or cartoons like Steven Universe are considered "too much" and not "pure" enough, then fuck, what is??

[trashlie]

hey it's the same anon as last time ^^ i'll try to stop by your inbox more often when i have the time and some thoughts to share. discussing these things is fun and you make such great points about the characters and the story. i'll be signing these asks with lil anon (like lil buddy 😼) so you know it's me. and good to hear! i hope you continue to get better 🥰

i get why you're invested in kousuke's story. he is, objectively, a really interesting character. it's unfortunate that people disregard him, bc understanding him is a key part of understanding the story. and understanding him doesn't necessarily mean having sympathy/empathy for him. like on a personal level i can't stand him and want to smack him with a broom lmao but as a reader/observer it's interesting to try and understand his motivations/actions, if that makes sense 🤞

oh yeah you're completely right about kou getting worse as the story progresses. his recent development has felt like watching a car crash in slow motion - tragic, but fascinating and you can't look away. if ily was a less interesting story, a character like kousuke (typical rich asshole with some redeeming qualities) would have had significant growth by now. but that would be such a cliché, right?

and sometimes i do wonder if kousuke is doomed by the narrative, or if he eventually will be able to break free from... himself, essentially. the thing is, kousuke's is trapped. in order to grow and change, he needs to separate himself from the hiraharas/this fake reality that's been constructed from him, and see his situation from a different perspective. but in order to even want to change, he needs to grow as a character first. which he cannot do as long as he's involved with the family. it's like a snake eating its own tail. nothing/no one has been able to get through to him yet, so i guess there needs to be an outside force (maybe a revelation) that breaks him out of this cycle, shatters the very foundation of his fake reality, or maybe removes his safety net. and i really wonder what's that going to be. like... even though christmas is coming up in the ily universe, i doubt he'll be visited by the ghosts of the present, past, and yet to come and then all of a sudden he's a gentler, kinder man the next day lmaooo idk what do you think it'll be that's going to push him towards (positive) change? i think it's undeniable that kousuke needs to crash and burn first, and then maybe he can build himself up from the ground. i really do hope that's what's going to happen eventually! he is (mostly) a victim of his upbringing/environment, so it'd be nice to see him make steps towards growth/healing/being his own person. either way we're still so far from anything like this happening so who knows.

re: nol and fear - wow i didn't make the connection that nol is also driven by his fears, but you're absolutely right. i saw him as someone mostly controlled by self-loathing/self-destructiveness/low self-esteem, but these feelings are ultimately rooted in his fears. thanks for pointing that out. such an interesting parallel between the brothers.

all the ways the brothers are two completely different people with similar issues are endlessly fascinating to me (i just love me a complex siblings dynamic). you mentioned that neither of them have that family relationship with their parents at this point, and i agree. however, i think it's important to keep in mind that a key factor in nol and kousuke being such different people are that their early days were completely different.

nol had a very loving mother who shaped him during his most critical years of development (ages 0 to 5). and i actually believe nol got his best qualities (kind, caring, generous, brave, funny, etc) and morals from nessa, not rand. also, the hiraharas hadn't poisoned him yet. the layers of pain and trauma came later. on the other hand, kousuke received a completely different version of care and was taught a number of really negative traits - that his wealth and name make him better than other people, that his family doesn't function like others do and that that's normal, that he shouldn't feel guilty taking advantage of people and situations, that he deserves to have everything he wants, that his sole purpose is to inherit the company, and - as you said - that love as a reward, rather than something he's inherently deserving of. no wonder nol was/is such a threat to him - he's competition, and there can only be one winner. how can this boy, a 'mistake', have received this "reward" (=rand's love (nol hasn't actually received it but kousuke thinks he did)) so easily, when he didn't do anything to deserve it? that can only mean that nol is better, that kousuke is in his shadow, somehow inferior. and that just contradicts kousuke's entire worldview. idk it's just. much to think about.

oh wow i wrote so much, sorry about that. btw feel free to copypaste this in a separate post under a cut so it doesn't take up too much space if you feel like it, i wouldn't mind! have a good weekend 💗 - lil anon

Lil' Anon, I love it, perfect! Hehe!!!

You are SO right about Kousuke, too, in that you don't have to love a character to enjoy them. In-verse I would not get along with Kousuke or even want anything to do with him lol. He frustrates me a LOT - but right, you can understand WHY a character is frustrating. You can become invested while knowing you would absolutely fight them lol. The thing about compelling characters is that, for the most part, they are the drivers of plot and story and if they aren't a character worth investing in, you run the risk of caricatures of antagonists, villains who fall flat and cartoonish. ILY certainly borrows from the truth that everyone is going through something, no matter who they are. That doesn't always validate what they do, but as far as a story and PLOT goes, it makes everything far more interesting. That's the main thing I want people to come away with, not just as far as ILY goes but media in general. Because it's fiction, there is no harm in enjoying an antagonist. Your plot and story wouldn't be as enjoyable if they WEREN'T compelling or intriguing. When I say Kou has become a character I'm very invested in, it doesn't mean I approve of the things he does. In fact, I root for him BECAUSE I want to see him grow, because I want to see if he ever takes the reigns on his life and comes to much-needed realizations.

Because you are right - there is a big chance that Kousuke IS doomed by the narrative. I've talked about this re: Alyssa before, too, in that just as in real life, there's a chance he may never come to the terms he needs to. He may never find his way out of his safety spots, may never try to leave what is safe and secure. That's what's so important about acknowledging how fear drives him - if he cannot overcome that fear of being uncomfortable, of facing disappointment, of being outside what he finds safe and secure, then he really can't make the changes he needs to. He won't have the opportunity to see himself in a way that might give him the perspective he needs. In general, growth requires courage. If we want to grow, we have to face scenarios that bring us discomfort, that maybe make us fall apart, in order for us to learn just how much we can take, just how much we can overcome. But Kousuke has never really been in that kind of position. He's had everything handed to him, whether or not he wants it to be.

I really like the analogy that it's like a snake eating its own tail; I think that really sums up the vicious cycle and why we've not seen him wake up to reality, why things seem to go in one ear and out the other.

Over on reddit I've been talking to someone a lot about Kousuke, too, and a thought we share is that not only does Kousuke need that crash and burn - I think everyone is in agreement about that! - but maybe something that can be a wake up call for him is his career. They made some really great points, too, I'll link to their response here, but we know that Kousuke isn't truly happy in his life and career. To him, we endure uncomfortable situations, or one's that aren't fun because that's life. We don't live in an ideal world, we have to do whatever we can to get by. But Kousuke literally could have his pick of anything in the world, couldn't he? At some point, when does he realize he's unfulfilled? The whole purpose of his career trajectory was to earn Rand's affection. At what point does he realize it isn't going to happen - if he's not already at that realization? At what point does the empty, hollowness set in? When does he realize he doesn't feel fulfilled because none of this was for HIM, this doesn't mean anything to him without Rand acknowledging him? And suppose he does get that acknowledgement. Then what? The quest is over, there's no higher goals, nothing more to achieve. Oh, sure, he can go on to be the CEO as he was born to. But would it MEAN anything to him?

I'm thinking - or hoping? - that this might be the kind of thing that gives him the wake up call. That there is no point in his life that brings him joy - except maybe eating sweets lol. But that can only be a catalyst. You're right in that a big need is for him to get away from his family, for him to exist outside of their reach, to lose that safety net.

I have a couple thoughts in this regard. Whatever Yujing is working on - likely an expose - syncs up with Shinae's graduation and Nol's release from prison. It clearly has to do with the Hiraharas - and this means Kousuke, as well. When she found out Nol had pleaded guilty, she'd been looking at an old article about Nol attacking Kousuke, which we've seen may not be what we thought it was at all, that perhaps it was Kousuke who attacked and Yui blamed Nol. There's also that incident Kousuke is so DESPERATE to hide, something Yujing knows about. It seems likely that this expose, this piece, is something that could taint the Hirahara name. Even if Kousuke was not involved in other aspects, this would end up affecting him, because a major part of his identity is that he is the Heir, so what happens if his identity is that he's the Heir of a dirty family? If it becomes known that he is not the ideal gentleman bachelor he's been made out to be? Is that enough to make him step back and see his family - especially his safety net Yui - in a new light?

There's also my favorite crack theory, that Kousuke is not Rand's son. Now, again, I don't necessarily think I believe in this as much as I enjoy exploring it, but there's been a number of little moments that feel like they could be foreshadowing - or red herrings lol. Suppose it was true, Rand isn't actually Kousuke's father. Aside from the fact that he's spent his whole life trying to earn love from this man, I think it would also be detrimental in that he'd finally have to face the unsavory parts of Yui that he tries to ignore or deny. The one pillar in his life having lied to him and egged him on to chase after this pipedream, reassured him that if he's good enough, he'd be acknowledged. Wouldn't that shatter him? Again, I'm not so sure if this is likely - it kind of feels overdramatic, but then again, the deeper we delve into the story, the more those kinds of dramatics start to feel normal.

At any rate, yes, I think he needs a wake up call that will make him see his family for what they are, make him see himself in a different light. And that's just the beginning! I really look forward to our big timeskip to see where we find Kousuke, if he's yet in a place where he can start making these changes to himself, if he's got a security network to push him to make those changes (and if he cares enough to do it lol).

Also yes, yes, very good points about Nol! Nol and Kousuke are definitely foils in that Nol had the kind of nurturing, affectionate childhood that Kousuke lacked. We've seen instances of Nol surrounded by peers his own age and we might be able to assume that, aside from being teased for having such a long name, maybe he actually got along with them? But also, because of the teasing incident, Nol had that safe space in his mother - Nessa comforted him and gave him a nickname to make up for the teasing. We've never once see Kousuke receive such affection, and I just always think about that little flashback where he's in the bush watching Nessa dote on Nol and then Yui appears before him without eyes. It's such a cold relationship, it doesn't feel like it was nurturing. She goes through the motions of being a mother, certainly, but that's the thing - the difference between mother and mom. Nol had a mom, Kousuke had a mother. And we can see that even when Nol was driven by fear, even when he was trying to distance himself, he couldn't help but indulge in those traits his mother passed on to him. He started to care about the friendships that weren't supposed to matter because he's such an empathetic person. He understands loneliness so well, how could he help but reach out to people he thought needed help? But Kousuke never developed those kinds of skills or traits. How is he meant to empathize with or understand people he was literally raised to see himself apart from. They're not like him, they are Other. Literally a formative foundation of the way he views the world!

Light and shadow plays such a role in the ILY universe. Nol is literally in the shadows, but Kousuke thinks that its him who is in the shadow cast by Nol, that he cannot let Nol shine, lest it drown out his own light. I think that really sums up the root of their relationship and their issues: Nol didn't so much want to shine as much as just share that spot with Kousuke. I think at some point he gave up trying to earn Rand's favor and instead sought out Kousuke who was in the same boat as him. But Kousuke thinks only one of them can be in the light and if it's not him, that means it's Nol - Nol who is so undeserving who hasn't put in the same effort as him. Isn't that funny? Kousuke literally was born into privilege, knows he is afforded things most others never will be, knows that he has things others could work for their whole lives and never possess. But he thinks it's Nol who has earned something without making any effort. The irony of it, man.

Don't feel bad about how much you wrote hehehe! I.... also cannot hold back when it comes to anything ILY so I'm delighted to receive equally long messages haha! Looking forward to more fun conversation with you, Lil Anon! And thank you for the well wishes! I'm going to try to make myself do more painting today! Fingers crossed (I am not doing the best job at taking care of myself this week lol I'm hoping some painting will help!)

[trans-leek-cookie]

Thinking abt Norman takamori and he Sucks (which I won't lie I enjoy having east Asians who suck bad and have few to 0 redeeming qualities) but I can't help but feel like the traumatic nature of his backstory isn't fully looked at like... yeah being the fall guy wasn't A Good Thing for him to do but fall guys usually don't like. Benefit lol. And I'll say I def get like he pretty much volunteered but at the same time is he going to talk back to his superior officer? No???? Like even if he had morals he wouldn't bc that would fuck him over so hard and probably end his career or life. And I don't even think he was thinking "oh this is my chance" because. He just witnessed so many people die horrifically knowing he was thisssss 🤏 close to being one of them like again I don't think was actually trying to get the promotion as just going into panic mode and grabbing the last thing he was focused on (maybe now I can talk to Gust abt being promoted) and just autopilot asked for it. Like I think riva put it really well saying "yeah sucks that happened but there's a point you're making your own choices"

[cyanide-rifle]

my comfort characters (the non-romantiziced versions in my silly head) would kill me no morality at ALL no redeeming qualities 0 😝

five comfort characters, five tags

(had to start a new thread, got too long) thanks for tagging me @loulooser ooh i like this okay - nick nelson (osemanverse) - aled last (osemanverse) - peeta mellark (hunger games) - linh song (keeper of the lost cities) - xavier hawthorne (the inheritance games)

tagging @lyssified @mister3127 @raeny-nights-and-faery-lights @weirdo09 @charliethinks

[thiswaycomessomethingwicked]

So I finished Gods if Jade and Shadow and it was a fun read. Very much a Fairy Tale, and I say that in a positive light.

[spoilers below]

I will say, I went through the tag on here and people were going on about the ending tearing up their hearts and I personally don’t get it. Like, it was a perfectly expected ending. Nothing shocked or surprised me about it. And that’s not a bad thing! Means the story was well constructed.

But idk guys. Cassiopeia is eighteen. I think it’s a good thing the first guy she fell in love with, after leaving a shit family situation in a small town where she was sheltered from the world, ended and now she’s able to go out and really live her life.

And honestly? Her driving off with a French Demon to New Orleans is so much better than being Persephone 2.0 but Mayan.

Things I liked:

I loved how Hun-Kamé was written. Definitely a well rendered god of the dead/underworld, I felt

The playing with Mayan mythology was cool and caters to my love of myth making and folklore

Traveling around late 1920s Mexico with Cassiopeia and Hun-Kamé was a lot of fun

The romance was understated and believable from Cassiopeia’s point of view. Totally on point. Personally don’t know what a god of the underworld sees in a sheltered 18 year old from a small town but idk I guess you do you, Hun-Kamé

I loved the bit at the end between Hun-Kamé and Vucu-Kamé with the mountain of resentment eroding away; that was a great scene

Here for the giant salamanders - actually everyone’s animal companions were great

Cast of characters was great - all the people they meet are fun and engaging

Well paced plot, it’s not a character driven book by any means so the plot needs to keep going and it does

I did like Martín’s hatred that Cassiopeia was the favoured grandchild even though Cirilo treated everyone like shit. Like that dynamic of “this old man is abusive and terrible but I still want to be his favourite and have him love me more than you” felt very real

The description of the gods was good. Especially the focus on their eyes and how inhuman they are, I really liked that

Things I didn’t like or felt could have been done better:

I felt that the world was underused. This is jazz age Mexico! There was a lot of potential and I didn’t feel as immersed in the world as I could have been

The plot was fun and interesting enough to keep me reading but it was entirely predictable. But, it is a playing on a fairy tale/old legend motifs so I suppose that makes sense from a narrative decision

I wanted more suspense and tension of whether or not they were going to succeed

Kind of wanted proper brujeria showing up more than it did (this is purely personal, not anything against the book)

Wanted more backstory on her father and also what the fuck her grandfather was up to other than helping gods of the dead stage coups against their twin brothers, as one does

Martín was a fine antagonist/foil to Cassiopeia but I felt he needed to be built out a little more.

Cassiopeia felt a little too perfect - her temper and her attitude never really got them into trouble and like idk I wanted more from her

I will say I like character driven things so this could just be a personal taste thing

My hot takes:

Martín, being a useless, cowardly, arrogant asshole shitweasel was, naturally, my favourite character and I’m rooting for him in Guadalajara. Go make that sweet sweet cash money and avoid your shitty grandfather

This was the best ending for Cassiopeia and I think her ending up with Hun-Kamé would have been depressing. She’s much better off with her new bff, the shifty French demon who makes bad jokes

The shifty French demon, Loray, is my other fave character

Vucu-Kamé did nothing wrong and he was right to stage a coup against his brother. Hun-Kamé, I do like him as a character, but he seems like a bit of a loser. Go reclaim the power of your former glory days, Vucu-Kamé, I believe in you

I forget if Vucu-Kamé got his jade ring back from Martín. If he didn’t I’m 100% sure Martín calls him up when he’s in a tight spot and is like “OH MOST GRACIOUS AND POWERFUL AND WONDERFUL LORD OF XIBALBA i owe Juan two hundred pesos. Can you uh…cover my gambling debt again?” Sacrifices a goat to him. Vucu-Kamé is like, “Gods fine. But only because you flatter my ego.”

Vucu-Kamé: what did I do to deserve such useless mortal servants?

Hun-Kamé: maybe try fewer coups in the future?

Vucu-Kamé: that has absolutely nothing to do with the bad luck of being saddled with Martín Layva as a servant 

Hun-Kamé: yeah I definitely got the good cousin, out of the two

Cassiopeia is an absolute nightmare driver, no one can convince me otherwise. Loray regrets teaching her

Anyway - it’s a fun and fast read and I generally recommend it if you’re looking for a good, easy romp to read over a weekend or something

[h0nkz]

people be out here rly stanning yashiro in the good year of 2017