#-at least crushing on jon at that point lol

[fiendishartist2]

nvm turns out i just bring more tma doodles

(image 1): "maybe if i pretend to have a nervous breakdown elias will let me leave" "i think im in love with my boss"

(image 2): "DRUGS GIVE ME DRUGS GIVE ME DRUGS-" "can you feel the love tonight~"

[devine-fem]

why don't you like jayjon? Genuinely asking btw and I'm neutral btw I don't really ship superheroes kids, so yeah

Alright, firstly I have always come across damijon shippers that ship them as kids because their purest connection peaked when they were young so you kind of permanently keep Jon and Damian as kid in your head because of what DC did to them.

We ship them in a ‘wholesome crush on your best friend, twisting inside you over time that you snub out till you reach your adulthood and have the maturity to deal with it’ type of way. The beauty of Damijon is not the fact that it’s Bat x Super. I honestly don’t care for this dynamic ergo not shipping superbat and not liking Timkon at all. The beauty of Damijon is that they could become something with a friendship to back it up, then continue to push each other’s characters forward while being in a relationship if the writer cared enough. It’s a plus that they care for each other so much and have the personalities to really balance each other out.

I enjoy ships like Daminika, Dami x Colin and other Jon ships as well. I just only post damijon and talk about them. It’s only Jonj*y I have issues with. It’s not about ‘getting in the way of my ship’ nothing can ever get in the way of me enjoying damijon and fandom is just gonna have to deal with that. We all come here for enjoyment because we should supposedly enjoy DC for DC and find community in that, enjoy our ideas and takes on it and one person is not going to perceive or enjoy something the same way but we are so damn MEAN to each other. Damijon gets a lot of heat, mostly because twitter damijon stans are annoying and horrible and damijon antis are just as bad.

So the problem I have with Jonj*y is just deep rooted.

Firstly, I hate the way it came about. The last thing Jon’s character needed was to be in a relationship period but then for it to be a queer relationship used as a tool to garner sales? There’s nothing in the world I dislike more than queer baiting. The last thing we needed from DC was to pull something like this and as a queer person it just really gets under my skin - as it should anyone, to be honest.

Even regardless of that Jonj*y is the relationship equivalent of stale bread. They have no chemistry, Jay has no character besides catoring to Jon’s sexuality, and even if they were to explore him there’s no point because objectively they’ve tarnished Jon Kent way too much to be wasting comic ink on Jay.

I don’t like aged up Jon Kent as a whole, it’s not like I want him to stay a kid forever - obviously not. The fun of a comic book character is their growth! Jon over time should have never been able to get to the age he is now when other comic book characters struggle to get near that age in decades. I MEAN HE’S NEARLY OLDER THAN KON RIGHT NOW. Bendis did what he did to Jon because he ain’t even like him.

There are real serious issues with Jon Kent’s age up than him getting with Damian. I know how to seperate my ship/fanon from canon. I can go on and on about the problems with it without mentioning Damian once.

I had to put “JonJ*y apologist DNI” in my bio because the stans kept coming to my page and spewing BS 24/7 so I thought it was my absolute right to make sure they knew this page was not for them.

If you enjoy the ship at all then you will not like me because I have almost every single active Jonj*y poster blocked because I have fought with them at least once because they wanted to be stupid and spew nonsense on Jon Kent when you can tell they haven’t read a damn comic besides SSOKE and it really shows.

If you enjoy it, just block me. It’s only a matter of time before we fight anyway, so don’t waste your breath because the whole time you could be trying to open your mouth, you could open a comic book instead, how about that?

Thanks for the asks though, LOL.

P.2

[honeysuckleharringtons]

Part Three: "Spilled Milk" ~ S. Harrington

Summary: (Then) Morning sickness has finally caught up to Reader, and unfortunately it has her spilling her guts in more than one way. — (Now) When Steve brings his roommate along with him to the coffee shop, the situation soon goes south when his friend starts to spill Steve's not-so-secret crush to a certain barista.

Pairing: Nurse!Steve Harrington x Fem!Byers!Reader

Word Count: 2,561

Content Warning: teen pregnancy, vomit/morning sickness talk, mentions of food, very mild swearing, lmk if i missed anything!

Extra Notes: this chapter took so freaking long to write because work is taking it out of me lol but i hope you guys enjoy!!

Originally Written: 11/05/2023 through 11/27/2023

honeysuckleharringtons' masterlist can be found here!

'brew and me' series masterlist can be found here!

[ Then, July of 1987 ]

One week. Seven days. One hundred and sixty-eight hours. Over ten thousand minutes. That was the amount of time that had passed since that little white stick had turned blue and changed your life forever.

One might've thought you would've been used to the information by that point, that excitement or anticipation or any kind of emotion at all would've at least crossed your mind once or twice. Instead, you still felt numb, guilt and self-loathing dripping through your veins as naturally as your own blood.

To make matters worse, morning sickness had finally caught up to you. When you weren't throwing up from shame and fear, you were retching due to the human life inside you that clearly wasn't happy with its environment. You were living on a steady diet of toast and Joyce's ginger tea, and you were quite positive your brothers had started to catch on.

The older of your brothers, Jonathan, had been home for summer break from college for barely two weeks when you found out about your current condition. The two of you had been inseparable since the day you were born, having been raised more like twins than individuals who were born a year apart. And since the day you started to speak in full sentences, the two of you told each other everything. But the idea of him finding out about this? To say it terrified you more than actually having the baby was an understatement.

On the opposite hand, you had your younger brother, Will. The baby of the family—for the time being, anyway. The innocent one, the one who you trusted with anything because he didn't really have anyone to tell his secrets to. You craved so desperately to confide in someone, and he happened to be the person you always went to. But telling him this would be like taking the last of his innocence, like forcing him to cross the line between childhood and adulthood with you.

That thought was nearly too much to bear, and because of it, you found yourself doubled over the toilet, nausea and guilt and anguish rushing through you from head to toe. You retched and gagged as vomit exited you once again, tears pricking at your eyes from the pain.

Joyce truly had tried her best to help you as much as possible, bringing you anything you needed and helping you back into bed. But being a single mom also meant taking care of her kids in other ways, and this particular day, it meant leaving you at home with the two people you dreaded speaking to the most at that moment.

A soft knock rapped against the door, and you knew just from the fact that he'd actually used his manners that it was Jonathan. "Are you okay? You looked pretty sick when you ran in here."

A small smile tugged at your lips at his concern, the first time you'd felt any positive feelings since you found out your news. "It's open, Jon," you called, pushing yourself up from where you lay flat on the tiles.

He pushed the door open slightly, just enough to enter the room before cracking it behind himself. Worry knitted in his thick eyebrows as he moved to sit criss-cross on the floor across from you. "This must be one hell of a stomach bug."

A sarcastic chuckle made its way out of your lips weakly. "Pretty bad," you said, unsure if you had the strength to muster any more words together. You pulled your knees to your chest, hugging your legs like your life depended on it. Your eyes went anywhere but toward his, knowing with just one look, Jonathan could convince you to spill even your darkest secret. Which, in all fairness, this might've been it.

"Hey," he started, a gentle hand coming up to meet your knee, "I know when something's wrong with you."

"Jon, it's-"

You didn't have to look up to know he was giving you that serious and stern look, the one that always reminded you that he was nothing short of your big brother. "Don't give me the stomach bug thing again. Maybe you can fool Mom with that crap and maybe even Will, but you're not fooling me. I'm your older brother, but more than that, we're best friends. I know when something is truly wrong with you, but I can't help you if you don't tell me what it is."

Instead of forming words, you simply shuffled across the floor and over to him, Jonathan instinctively opening his arms up to pull you into his side. Just as you expected, even the simplest of touches had you on the brink of tears as you leaned into his embrace. His crisp and clean scent filled you with a sense of familiarity. A feeling that was so comforting, so needed, and just so Jonathan.

Pregnancy must've taken away your knowledge of how time worked because once again, being in a familiar embrace had made you lose track of time. You really weren't sure if you'd been on the floor with him for five minutes or five hours before a certain someone alerted you of his presence from the doorway.

"Uh," Will started, clearly confused by the scene in front of him. "Why are you two hugging on the bathroom floor?"

Identical snickers tumbled out of both you and Jonathan, yours being slightly muffled by tears. You pushed yourself up before motioning the younger boy over with a wave of your hand. "Come here, Will," you said, the beginnings of a smile tugging at the corners of your mouth.

Despite the way he was looking at the two of you like you'd both grown an extra head, Will followed your request. He sat down criss-cross on the side closest to the door, and you were sure it was because he was secretly plotting an escape from his two crazy older siblings.

You tossed an arm around both their sets of shoulders, looking between the two of them with teary eyes. "Before I tell you guys the biggest secret you've ever heard, you have to promise me two things: one, it will not leave this house; and two, you'll still love me afterward."

Jonathan rubbed at your hair playfully. "Kinda hard to promise that second one when I never loved you to begin with, stinker." The statement earned him a teasing shove from you and a false expression of shock from Will.

Looking between the two of them, you felt your heart swell with luckiness. No person had ever been blessed with two better siblings than your own, you were sure of it. The older, a living, breathing personification of comfort, and the younger, a steady thing to hold onto when life felt wobbly. You wished it could stay that way forever, the three of you in your own private and protected bubble.

Unfortunately, the moment had to come to an end and your bubble had to burst. When you remembered the statement you were about to make, it felt to you almost as though the moment had been a passing second rather than the first eighteen years of your life.

That familiar numbness began to return, flooding to your fingers and toes first, and then starting to creep up your spine. You managed a shaky breath, avoiding both their gazes as you exhaled. "I want to preface this by saying that my boyfriend and I love each other very much, so you guys don't have to worry about him." The words came out choppy, anxiety clearly coating your throat.

You could almost hear Jonathan's eyebrows furrowing as he asked, "What's he got to do with…" His voice trailed, as if already figuring out exactly what you were about to say.

Another shaky breath escaped your lips as you lifted your head. You still avoided eye contact, this time fearful they'd see the panic-induced tears welling beneath your eyes. "I…" you started, knowing that once you said the words, there'd be no going back, "I'm pregnant."

Jonathan took the news exactly how you'd expected: leaning back against the counter, running a hand through his messy brown hair, and his complexion going from its normal pale shade to stark white. Will took the information much better than your older brother: not saying anything but pulling you in for a soft hug.

While the two of them processed the statement you'd made, a new feeling washed over you, like you were finally beginning to process the news yourself. Your nerves began to settle, and the nervous tingling in your fingertips was being overtaken by… relief? Excitement? Contentment?

[ Now, November of 1991 ]

Whatever the word was, you liked it much more than the horrible, guilty, suppressing thoughts that had been weighing you down for the past week. You'd be okay, no matter what happened. Because you had the best support system, one that made your heart swell with luckiness.

The bell chimed as the door swung open, pulling your attention away from the book you'd been reading in between taking customers. Normally, your attention would be on cleaning the equipment between orders or making sure tables were cleared off, but finals were only a couple weeks away, and that had stolen your attention this particular day.

"Hi, welcome to Brew and Me." The statement came out in its normal cheery tone, one that quickly gave way to an opposing expression as your eyes met familiar, wire-framed ones.

Steve stepped up to the counter as an unfamiliar curly-haired man followed behind him, digging in every single pocket of his leather jacket to find his wallet. In juxtaposition to Steve's neutral scrubs, the man wore a bright flannel beneath his jacket, and instead of having glasses perched on his nose, he sported sunglasses atop his head that were nearly hidden by his mop of dark curls.

You quickly turned your attention back to Steve, intrigued by whatever his order might be this time. "What's your guess this time, Lennon?" you asked, the words dripping sarcasm as your arms folded tightly in front of your chest.

Not taking the bait, Steve quickly changed the conversation. "Whatcha reading?" he asked, the words melting together in a way that made your stomach melt just the same.

Still, you wouldn't take the bait either, not backing down from your usual banter. "Mouth Hygiene by Alfred Fones."

"Sexy," he chuckled, earning a small snicker from the man behind him. Steve pushed his glasses up his nose, a cocky smirk appearing on his lips before he spoke again. "To answer your question though, I was wondering if I could just get today's special?"

"Something about me says, 'iced cold brew with cinnamon cold foam'? Good to know."

Steve leaned forward on the counter, and you had to resist the urge to watch his scrubs tighten around his muscled arms. "Well, it's like your personality. A little sweet at first, but then bold and bitter."

You started to reply but got cut off by another snicker from the leather-clad man standing behind your handsome nurse. "So this is the barista you're always talking about."

Before Steve could quip out a response, you met the two men with raised brows. Curiosity bubbled inside you. "Oh? Is that so?"

"Eddie, I swear to God, if it wouldn't get me kicked out of med school, I'd murder you," Steve grumbled.

The curly-haired man just smirked, a small huff of amusement leaving his lips. "You wouldn't dare. You love Chrissy and Wayne too much to ever hurt them like that."

"I could overlook it this one time, trust me," he quipped to Eddie. To you, he simply asked, "So, how's about that daily special?"

You quickly scribbled down his order before taking his money in contemplative silence. You knew Steve had a crush on you—that much was obvious, between his flirtatious remarks and endless efforts to get your phone number, not to mention his very generous tips—but the idea of him telling his friends all about you had butterflies shooting off in your belly like fireworks.

Steve soon headed in the direction of his favorite table, leaving Eddie to step up to the counter. His eyes narrowed in on the menu hanging above you, his tongue clicking as he contemplated his decision. Eventually, he landed on a white chocolate mocha, and your stomach growled at the thought.

"By the way," he said, sliding his money toward you, "he really does talk about you all the time, even if he's too shy to admit it."

Your cheeks flushed as you looked away, conveniently focusing on the cash register than on him. "Really?"

"Oh, yeah," he smiled. "Steve could go on and on for hours about your beautiful hair or gorgeous smile or whatever part of you he's thinking about that day. Just the other day, he wouldn't stop talking about your eyes. Not to mention, he's constantly raving about how no one could ever make drinks the way you do, hence why I'm here today."

Forget fireworks. With every word that passed through Eddie's lips, explosions of butterflies danced and spun around in your belly, tingles shooting up your spine.

After a few seconds, you finally gained enough composure to speak again. "Well, the feeling is definitely mutual," you admitted, your cheeks hot enough to steam milk.

"Good," Eddie said, the word quiet and simple and straight to the point. "He's a good guy. He's… a terrible roommate," a small laugh followed the remark, "but he really is a good guy."

The tingles on your spine somehow increased tenfold as you listened to Eddie's statements. You knew Steve was good, but hearing the people that knew him outside the coffee shop talk so highly of him made you swoon.

You didn't say anything in response, you were too busy trying to hide the blush burning across your entire face. You quickly got to work on their drinks, looking for any reason to avoid eye contact with the men. While it probably wasn't possible, you'd convinced yourself that one micro expression gone wrong could reveal every thought racing through your mind, and decided it was best to avoid the two until you collected yourself and your thoughts.

Still, your heart couldn't help but flutter at Eddie's words about the lovestruck nurse. Were it not for Mandy—and your trust issues—you might hop over the counter and give Steve your home phone number on the spot. After all, with every new day that passed and every new attempt at guessing your coffee order, you only found yourself falling for him that much more.

But you had a little girl at home, in need of protection. After all the sorry examples of men she'd had thus far in her mere three years on earth, it would take Steve a lot more than a couple of big tips and flirty banter for you to trust him.

So, you made quick work of changing the channel in your brain, no longer focusing on the one playing only lovesick lullabies and switching instead to one with barista ballads and zeroing your thoughts in on your work. If Steve really and truly wanted a shot with you, he'd have to work hard, no matter how sweet the things his friend had spilled about him were.

This is my formal apology stating that I am so sorry this was posted so late in the day! I had planned on queuing it for earlier in the day but didn't get home from work last night until super late. Anyway, I apologize and hope that next week's chapter will be posted on time!

-> taglist: @dungeons-are-too-cold @ducky-died-inside @awkotaco24 @liberhoe @princesseddie @corrodedseraphine @manuosorioh @esoltis280

[saltylandland]

The Lost Boys attractiveness rating

Curtesy of me. This may be a bit controversial but I’ll be giving reasons worry not. Also I’m not including Sam, the Frog brothers, and laddie for obvious reasons.

Dwayne

Tall, Dark, and handsome. My type and honestly, considering my past crushes have been Uta + Ayato (from Tokyo Ghoul) and Andy Beirsack, this really isn’t shocking. Plus he has long hair and he’s indigenous (I am also indigenous) he’s so fucking deadly lol.

David

I have a thing for voices and his is just 👌 and he’s just pretty, even with the mullet lol. Like look at that smile!!!! Plus out of all the boys I draw him a lot.

Marko

It took me awhile to get on board with him actually, but then someone described him as angel face and I was like ‘!!!!!!!’ Yeah totally! Plus he has a cool jacket, has pet pigeons, and he’s (at least Headcanon) creative.

Star

80’s Esmeralda lol. But like she’s so pretty??? It’s unfair. She’s also (Headcanon) creative. The main reason she’s this low on the list is bc women weren’t really allowed to have personalities in the 80s :/ (I’m joking,,, kinda) she could’ve been so interesting, instead she betrays her (supposed to be) friends for something she willingly gave up and Debbie Ryan. She makes Bella Swan look responsible.

Lucy

She’s also very pretty, just,,, women ❤️ also she’s very sweet, kind, and protective. Negative points bc she was a ‘starseed’/ ex-hippy kinda person which is a red flag.

Paul

Nothing against him or his actor (rest in peace Brooke) but he just looks like my uncle??? And a little like my Dad in the 80s, so I can’t get the appeal. Usually when I write for poly!lost boys or him on his own I replace his face with some other 80s Heartthrob or hair metal band member (Jon Bon Jovi? Especially when he was younger? ❤️👌)

Michael

I hate that Debbie Ryan smirk he does, plus every Michael I’ve ever met is a shit.

Max 🤮🤢

Ew.

Also keep in mind if he has been in Santa Carla for who knows how long, especially on the boardwalk where teens would want to hangout, he could’ve remembered Lucy when she was young. Ew.

Honourable mention

Grandpa

He may not work like he used to but he is goated and a role model to everyone.

[acaplaya-musings]

I'm a day late but I still wanted to acknowledge the fact that it's now been 5 years since the release of VoicePlay's cover for Oogie Boogie's Song! It's VoicePlay's second-most-viewed video, currently sitting at 13.25 million hits(!!!), and, like the case for many other people, it was my first ever introduction to VoicePlay.

Storytime! (On my first introduction to/first experiences with VoicePlay):

So I didn't find the video immediately after its release, but the fact that I found it at all was basically due to me setting myself up as the perfect target audience. Firstly, I'm a big Disney fan, have been since I was a young kid (as to be expected), and although I didn't actually watch The Nightmare Before Christmas in full until December last year, I was still familiar with a lot of its music. I have an old Disney Christmas album which starts out with Christmassy songs, but ends with songs from various Disney movie soundtracks (idk why), and it includes What's This, Oogie Boogie's Song, and Jack's Lament. And furthermore, each October I would watch the This Is Halloween intro scene from the movie on YouTube.

Secondly, at the time, I was a fan of at least some stuff by certain acapella and acapella-adjacent groups and artists. Straight No Chaser, Pentatonix, Peter Hollens, Nick Pitera, Jon Cozart/Paint, Todrick Hall, y'know. (Although I only watched/listened to covers of songs where I already knew the originals, because why would I listen to cover artists doing songs I didn't already know? Right? (I was naive)).

So it was late October when I finally clicked on VoicePlay's Oogie Boogie's Song. It had been sitting in my Suggested Videos sidebar thing for at least a couple of days iirc before my curiosity gave in (and seriously, it's quite a unique and striking sort of video thumbnail compared to most other VoicePlay thumbnails; something that perhaps worked in its favour?) And well, here's what I had to say about it on my Discord server:

(Little did I know that that E1 was not, in fact, the lowest goddamn note I would ever hear, lol)

But actually, that wasn't the first post I made about VoicePlay/Geoff. This was:

(In my defense of the description/comparison, I had been watching a lot of Unraveled and Overboard videos on Polygon's channel and it was the best description I could think of at the time).

So yeah, I fell in love with Geoff right from that video (I do love a man with a threatrical streak, and obvious bonus points for the hair!), and that crush was further solidified with videos like Panic In 4 Minutes (which I loved), and Queen In 5 Minutes (which I adored).

Also I just have to share this post/comment of mine, because man, Apollo's Dodgeball really side-swiped if not just straight up hit me with this one huh?

(For clarification, this was about 6 or 7 months before Geoff started making his own song covers on his personal channel, where he of course typically sings with "clones" of himself)

But like what I did with other singers and acapella groups, I mostly watched/listened to songs where I knew the original, including for Geoff's channel once it began (though I did also watch Headless Horseman and Mele Kalikimaka), and so yeah, I missed out on a lot at the time! So I wasn't "fully" invested yet, and I think I stuck around till like maybe late 2021 ish? Idk I remember watching Geoff's Monster Mash video, but I can't remember whether I watched VP's Friends On The Other Side at that point or not.

But then, in late October 2023, YouTube stuck Geoff's cover of Jack's Lament in my Recommended section, and I knew even before I watched it that it would be the best thing ever, and it was, and then I came across VoicePlay's cover of Hellfire, and well, the rest is history! 😄

So yeah, Oogie Boogie's Song might not have been the video that actually pushed me "down the rabbit hole", but maybe I might not have come across Jack's Lament four years later without it, or at least I wouldn't have had those memories or that degree of familiarity that made the video extra special, which helped make me want to go catch up on everything I had been missing out on.

In summary: Oogie Boogie's Song you will always be famous <3

[will80sbyers]

It probably won't happen like this at all but... idea n°18464872648 of what could happen in season 5:

First part of the season:

Will is having dreams about Max and he finds out those are not dreams but she's talking to him and she explains she's still here and asks for help...

So the whole party + Jonathan and Nancy decide to go to the upside down together to find Vecna and finish him

Jopper is dealing with the government, Owens betrayed El and Hopper punches him... Joyce shuts up Sullivan screaming at him and explaining to him that he's an idiot and she convinces him lol

They were meant to go too but they are being detained and questioned about El... while Hawkins is currently being invaded by all types of monsters

Owens gets killed

In the end the government + Jopper, Steve, Robin and Vickie ( rovickie happens at one point and they kiss) and Argyle and the other adults and the citizens of the town stay in Hawkins to fight there all together

The others go through a gate opened by El into the upside down and at one point they all get split up because they are attacked by various monsters...

First group: Mike and Will and Nancy

Mike gets hurt to one arm like in the s3 campaign at one point and byler things (almost) happen during all this time, it's now kinda (?) clear Mike has a crush on Will...it's explicit for bylers at least lol

Also at one point Nancy and Mike talk while they are in the woods and Mike asks her about feelings and stuff and being confused and she tells him her experience with Steve and Jonathan and this relates to byler obv and she says that she thought she loved Steve at one point but now that she has Jonathan she knows what's the real thing etc etc

He doesn't explain why he asked...

Second group: Lucas, El, Dustin and Jonathan

Lucas is the one that finds Vecna and they attack him and fight, Nancy, Mike and Will arrive when the fight is already on and help out and save some of them... In this fight Jonathan gets killed by Vecna in very cruel way, he rips out his heart in front of everyone

This makes El be so angry that she immobilizes him and Lucas chops his head off...

It's all tragic and raw and bloody

The upside down is still as it is around them but the battle is over

we see that Max wakes up in the hospital, Erica is with her and was defending her body from the demodogs being badass with some weapon, her parents + Murray are there too and they are fighting together and Murray dies protecting her

The party goes back to Hawkins where they won against all the monsters because they die when Vecna dies, and they bring Jon's body back, they show Joyce's pain and Will's pain and Nancy's

Time skip:

second part of the season

A few years pass and when we're back we find out what the characters are doing now and how they all changed, the gates have closed on their own, El and Mike are broken up, Max is back but she can't see from one eye... Life is goin on

The party is hanging out, drinking and partying together and Mike tries to kiss Will... Will rejects Mike and runs away!

The day after this night we find out that Mike went missing.

The adults are looking for him in the normal world and they are all worried about him

Will has a dream, Vecna is still alive somehow in this dream and he talks to him and tells him that if he wants Mike back he has to bring El to him because he still wants to have revenge on her and kill her and if he tells anyone else he kills Mike

He tells El and they decide to go alone

Dustin, Lucas and Max somehow find out and follow them

They all go to the upside down again because they think Vecna is still alive there somehow

In reality Vecna's conscience is still alive inside the mind flayer and he's trying to take over Mike's body and possess him

Mike is fighting mental visions in a loop in his mind - We see that the baby boy is in love with Will Byers and terribly afraid of being abandoned by everyone

So the main party goes in the UD to save Mike and they all get attacked with psychic torture and visions...

Lucas and Dustin and Max have their own visions

Lucas feels guilty for Max and trusting Jason

Dustin feels responsible for Eddie's death and sees Steve being killed too

Max gets tortured again but this time Vecna fails miserably with her, she's a survivor now, she wants to live and is not going to let anyone stay inside her mind again

As soon as they win in their visions they go back and find each other again

Meanwhile El decides to connect her and Will's mind to Mike's mind before Vecna can take over...

They find Mike in his loop but vecna takes over him and he has powers because he's being controlled by Vecna so in this mindspace they all fight... Mike.

but El gets trapped because she doesn't want to hurt Mike and all seems lost...

But Vecna doesn't want to kill them yet, he wants to torture them before...

He explains the upside down to Will, tries to make him give up his own body in Mike's place and makes him see visions of Jonathan... at this point Will overcomes these visions mentally thinking about his love for Jonathan and everyone else and understands that the key is love...

Then he starts talking about his own feelings for Mike because he knows love is the key to free him and this love confession gives so much power to Mike that he gets free from the mind flayer and Vecna's conscience is out of Mike's mind

Vecna tries to attack with the mind flayer and Will then uses his imagination powers by making a freaking dragon that fights the mind flayer!!!!!

El gets free too and Willel uses their now joined powers to finish Vecna's mind

They all go back into their bodies in the real world where Dustin and Lucas and Max were waiting for them to wake up

They all hug El

Mike kisses Will in front of everyone... the upside down fills up with light around them!!!!!!

because Vecna is dead and it is now free from him too and the mind flayer goes away opening a portal to Dimension X because it is a freaking alien that was controlled by Vecna

They won!

Back to Hawkins...

One year later

All happy scenes of the characters, lumax movie date, Erica is playing d&d with her friends, Steve and Dustin are leaving for a roadtrip together in a van, Robin and Vickie are still together cuddling on the couch while watching fast times, Argyle is hanging out with Eden and we see random recurring characters doing things

Nancy is talking on the phone with her mom and asks her how her and Holly are doing in their new apartment... she is in her ( very small) office! She's officially working as a journalist, she hangs up the phone and looks at her name tag on the desk, a picture of Jonathan right next to it...

Byler is making out in Will's new room and El tells them dinner is ready and to keep the door open 3 inches to make fun of them but Will uses his powers to shut the door... Yeah they both have powers now!

After this they all go to have a New year dinner party together with Joyce and Hopper!

Mike and Will kiss at midnight 😌

*sound of people cheering in the background*

*transition from the Byers TV to the Wheeler's TV*

The season ends with Ted Wheeler watching the people celebrate on TV and shutting it off to go to bed

hard cut to black with the effect of the TV shutting off

stranger things main theme starts playing 🫡

[sparky-is-spiders]

Re: my poll, because its way too early to start thinking about The Data but also I am thinking about The Data.

Respect JE for holding out a steady third, but I honestly expected it to have way more votes. I think I underestimated the number of jm shippers who prefer jon/tim and jon/gerry.

(Also, I've decided that the people acting incredulous about je on my poll is more funny than annoying I think. Yeah its a popular ship lol. Sorry to break the news to you)

I think I've seen more jon/tim voters stating their case out loud than jon/gerry shippers, but the latter is still keeping a few paces ahead, which is interesting in and of itself, but I haven't done a full count so I may be misremembering.

A few people have brought up jon/basira and jon/helen, which aren't ships I usually think about but which I can see the appeal for.

I have also acquired a new messy oil spill ship to have brainworms over because the only thing better than one jon is two jons. If you know you know.

To my fellow jon/sasha truthers out there I know the number is small but I see you.

I want to know how many jon/peters were misclicks. So far nobody has come forward to even mention it (aside from one person who found it confusing lmao). I even more want to know who has it as their favorite and why. Like not in a judgey way I like them too I'm just so curious.

Initially included "platonic or romantic" at the last minute but now I sort of wish I had done two separate polls because I want to see the data, but I really don't want to do this to my notes again its been scary.

For example a lot of jon/daisy voters specified platonic, which is Fair and Valid (I like them both ways), but now I want to know how different the results would look if I had a poll for platonic and a poll for romantic.

Jon/daisy and jon/gerry got the most "platonic" specifications so would they crush that poll? Would jon/tim take the lead?

Also curious what including jm would do to the tim and gerry voters but I don't want to see my NoTP blowing up my notifs like that. Tbh I'm sure someone's done it before anyway lol.

Also to the .7% of jon/melanie enjoyers. I see you also. I am so so curious about you. I agree but I want to understand not just what made you like jon/melanie but what made you choose it above all the other options.

No conclusion or broader point cause its been like a day lmao. Instead I will leave you w/ this last Fun Fact that originally the poll contained jon/gertrude instead of jon/peter. I ultimately changed it because I was too embarrassed to reveal those particular brainworms to a potentially large audience but now part of me wishes I hadn't been such a coward.

(Other thing I could've done: "what's your favorite jonship" and just not mention jm at all. It'd clog up my notifs with propaganda for my least favorite ship but also it'd be funny as hell I think).

Ok I gotta move the laundry I think. Goodbye.

[cellsshapedlikestars]

Possible spoiler question!

Okay, I know you said Ygritte is jealous and the rest know how caring Jon is and he's their friend, but the way he acts around and about Sansa seems more than a guy having a crush.

So my question is, and I really don't expect an answer right away, is it possible she's his mate and he hasn't told anyone because he doesn't think she'll want him???

There isn't going to be anything like mates in this, at least not in the sense of 'destined to be together'. I don't know if I've ever spoken publicly about this here, but there's a reason I've never been into soulmate fics. I like people *choosing* to be with another person, not destiny or fate choosing for you.

Jon is just really protective of her. We'll get more on how he feels later, but I think most people by this point have guessed that he had a pretty big crush on her when they were younger (that Sansa was completely unaware of). Has he been pining for and in love with her all this time? No. They were kids, he wasn't in love with her in an adult sense. But of course because of what happened, Sansa has remained in his subconscious. Her showing up has thrown him off completely and his feelings for her are very complicated. I hope to explain this better in the actual story lol

[airinsand]

I stumbled upon this randomly, and I could never miss an opportunity to talk about my OCs (I don't really have any self inserts because I'm not self-aware lol)

1. Lyra & Elissa Stark. They're the twin cousins of Ned Stark. Their father was the younger brother of Ned's father. Their mother died shortly after giving birth to them, and their father and older brother's all died during Robert's Rebellion, so they were basically raised by Ned and Catelyn alongised the Stark kids (I imagine them to bet around Theon's age, probably a bit older). They're the typical opposite twins, with Lyra being more tomboy-ish and Elissa fitting more into the ideal image of a Westerosi lady.

Lyra grew up training swords fighting alongside Robb, Jon and Theon, basically because once she picked up a sword for the first time, no one could manage to get her so stop obsessing about it (and Ned and Cat REALLY tried to). Robb and Jon even sometimes say that they feel like she goes easy on them and is actually a better swordsman than she appears. Of course, due to all of this, Arya really looks up to her, but since Lyra is older, she manages to present a "ladylike" behavior when required of her, unlike Arya (because she's a child), so Lyra often finds herself looking after her little cousin. She's very vocal about how she considers northerner culture and values to be much above those of the south, to the point where when Robert and his family visited Winterfell, she would spend most of her time in the Godswood because she was so sick of the southerners (even though she did have a bit of a crush/admiration for Jaime Lannister, but she'll never admit it). Lyra is very straightforward forward to those she knows well but very quiet and distrustful towards strangers.

Elissa, on the other hand, is much more content with her life as a lady. She enjoys spending time with Catelyn, Sansa, and looking after the young Stark boys, and she definitely would've looked after Bran after his "fall" if she had been in Winterfell at the time. She's very patient and appears to be more open-minded when it comes to southern culture, but only to learn about it, she wouldn't trade her life for anything, she's a northerner and a stark through and through. Theon used to flirt with her all the time, but obviously, she never gave him the time of day, but she still treated him nicer than Lyra did. She's very sought after for betrothal in the North because of her beauty, manners, and, of course, her house. And unlike Lyra, most men aren't intimated or emasculated by her, so she has double the suitors her sister has (Lyra considers it a blessing).

Even though the twins are very different, they spend a lot of time together and love each other more than anything. They spend most of the story separated and, of course, trying to get back to Winterfell and to their remaining family, but mostly to each other. After Robert visits Winterfell, Elissa goes South with Ned, Arya and Sansa, because Sansa wants her to be her lady in waiting when she becomes Joffrey's queen, and Elissa also felt her cousin could use the help to look after his daughters. She went there somewhat reluctantly, and her sister didn't want her to go, but she didn't like the idea of Sansa ending up alone in King's Landing with Ned busy most of the time and Arya off doing her own thing. Lyra stayed in Winterfell, until Robb decided to march south, so she went with him. They didn't want to let her go, but she justified that of the Mormont women who could fight were allowed to go, she should be too. So Lyra's story follows, at least initially, Robb's campaign, and Elissa's story happens mostly as she is held hostage in King's Landing.

In the current point in the story, Elissa managed to escape King's Landing with Sansa (with Littlefinger's help) and is currently in the Vale, and is hiding under a false identity just like Sansa (Elissa looks VERY Stark, but since most people in the Vale haven't met a Stark in person, no one suspects her or anything. The only person who actually knew who she was was Lysa, and we all know how that went... down). Lyra is a "guest" (cof cof hostage cof) of Roose Bolton because Lyra was sent to escort Jaime back to KL alongside Brienne, but after Roose caught them in Harrenhall, and let Jaime and Brienne leave, he decided to keep Lyra with him becuse 1- the red wedding was gonna happen, 2- it would be useful to keep a Stark woman alive in case she could be useful. So she's back in the North with in, in Winterfell taken by the Boltons, where she is kept in her quarters and very rarely allowed to leave.

So I talked so much just about these two OCs and now I'm two tired to talk about the others haha Maybe some other day I will (seriously I have a lot of asoiaf ocs, not to mention the ones from the house I've created and all my Targaryen ones from fire and blood). I just love talking about my OCs too much TT

Who are y’alls ASOIAF OCs and embarrassing self inserts I’ll go first

1. Magda Baratheon. She’s the youngest Baratheon sibling and yes you have to change around the timeline for it to work but idrc. I think the Baratheon family could be even more unstable with a sister and also I like to project. She’s never had a father figure, Robert was like a distant fun uncle, Renly was her teenage older brother, and Stannis was the closest thing she had to a dad but ofc it wasn’t enough bc he’s Stannis. I think she is a combo of all the brothers good traits (boldness, charisma, loyalty, and quick wit) but also their shitty ones (stubborn, impulsive, proud). I think that after Renly dies she goes over to Stannis’ side and he takes her north probably hoping to secure a marriage alliance or something. She becomes friends with the Wall Squad bc I said so. And I ship her with Meera and they are happy girlfriends

2. Betha Bolton. She is Roose’s youngest child and his only surviving legitimate one, having the same mother as Domeric. And she is such a Freak a real manic pixie dream girl. She’s this soft spoken gentle oddball who doesn’t seem “all there” and no one can really believe this Weird Little Girl is from The Flaying House. Also she’s a seer 🔮 she is tha Cassandra of the ASOIAF-verse. She isn’t really in control of it but whenever she speaks Roose listens bc he knows that whatever she says comes true in some way. Also in the ASOIAF I have in my head he is a good dad to her :) and Ramsay doesn’t like her but is kinda freaked out by his little psychic half sister so he leaves her alone. AND she has a pet Little Valyrian that some rich lord got her as a gift when she read his fortune. Probably foresaw the Red Wedding and was scarred by the Terrors that occurred when it actually happened

[esther-dot]

I have a confession to make (we really need confession boxes again but like, secular). I can't ship show!Jonsa because Jon looks like my actual real-life brother. I'm okay with book!Jonsa just because he's like a completely different character and I don't imagine the show-version in my head. So idfk know how Sansa's going to deal with it but it's going to be juicy. Lol!!!!

I'm just thinking of the moodboards, gifsets, and fics that we show Jonsa shippers have posted that must have made you close the app in horror. 😂 Kudos to you for surviving the fandom despite us!

The thing about book Jonsa is that Sansa romanticizes a brother/sister love early on in the books:

"Who cares about your stupid dancing master?" Sansa flared. "Father, I only just now remembered, I can't go away, I'm to marry Prince Joffrey." She tried to smile bravely for him. "I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies." (AGOT, Sansa III)

So the revulsion we feel isn't quite the same feelings she has or even Westeros more broadly which, as much as they disapprove of incest as a practice, still had a soft spot for/celebrated specific instances of it. There's additional commentary/spec on the impact of this on Jonsa by agentrouka-blog (link).

And, if you combine the fact that Sansa perceived that relationship as something beautiful with the revelation that Sansa had a crush on a guy that everyone recognizes as a Jon stand-in...well, it feels like a set-up for odd, pre-parentage reveal, feelings:

"Bronze Yohn knows me," she reminded him. "He was a guest at Winterfell when his son rode north to take the black." She had fallen wildly in love with Ser Waymar, she remembered dimly, but that was a lifetime ago, when she was a stupid little girl. "And that was not the only time. Lord Royce saw . . . he saw Sansa Stark again at King's Landing, during the Hand's tourney." (AFFC, Alayne I)

Notice that the descriptions of Waymar and Jon feature some of the same key words:

Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs. He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather. Ser Waymar had been a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch for less than half a year, but no one could say he had not prepared for his vocation. At least insofar as his wardrobe was concerned. (AGOT, Prologue)

"No," Jon Snow said quietly. "It was not courage. This one was dead of fear. You could see it in his eyes, Stark." Jon's eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast. (AGOT, Bran I)

There's a post by the usurpersdog about similarities between Waymar and Jon (link) and another by princess-in-a-tower more focused on the Jonsa implications (link), and I know there are more that I'm just not finding at the moment. But, basically, I'd agree with everyone else who has pointed it out before that it all reads like Martin has intentionally prepped Sansa to a) romanticize Jon, b) romanticize loving him even before parentage reveal.

I assume Martin will go for it and make Jonsa struggle with knowing their feelings aren’t quite right, but if the focus is on the heartache of an impossible situation, I think that can pretty easily lure people into Sansa’s way of thinking about it which would undoubtedly invoke her stories/songs, assuring herself, and the audience, of a certain context for the development of what is unacceptable to us/their world. The way she compares herself to a lady in the song and we have so many in-world stories/songs Martin could/will weave into this…I think he’s done a lot of work to create a pathway for it. Sympathy is a very powerful thing, and this wouldn’t only be a forbidden love but an impossible one, only, it isn’t, not really, so the audience’s relief would echo Sansa’s post parentage reveal. So much potential there!

Happy to be your Jonsa confessional, anon! <3

[f1-disaster-bi]

Need you now from Lady A gave me some ideas lol

Daniel and Max used to date. Max moved on, Daniel didn't. Max is now dating Charles but Daniel doesn't know that at that point. He's wallowing in self pity and drinks a lot alone in his apartment. He's so close to calling Max in the middle of the night most nights. He's wondering if Max still thinks of him because he does all the time.

Lando sees that his teammate is going through something (He didn't know about Max and Daniel) and tries to cheer him up but Daniel wouldn't let him. He still doesn't give up and on one good day it actually works and he gets Daniel to laugh. It made his stomach flutter and Oh! He never realized how pretty Dan's eyes were or the cute crinkles around his eyes when he was smiling. Lando must've stared or something because Daniel looked at him weird. Lando blushed and babbled something about training with Jon and ran.

Daniel wondered what gotten into the young Brit. He suddenly blushed and looked worlds away. It was cute. Wait what? Daniel was confused. He still had feelings for Max but suddenly there was more space in his heart for Lando.

They danced around each other since that day. Daniel wasn't necessarily avoiding Lando but this new feelings made him act weird, well weirder as normal, around Lando. Lando was more blushy around him and stuttered more.

It took Jon and Michael to finally get them to talk about their feelings. Daniel told him about Max and Lando, well Lando told him that Daniel was his first real something. They took it slow.

They just hung out at first, cuddling but no kissing. Daniel let him in more and more and Lando let his guard down bit by bit.

Their first kiss was after Monza when they got that 1-2. It was incredible.

In the next season they decided to be a little more out there and openly hug at least. But they weren't the only ones because Max and Charles were closer as well and everyone noticed.

Daniel wasn't a part in Max's life anymore but he was happy that his ex was happy and maybe they can be friends some day in the future because Max is also a friend of Lando's.

I love this!!!

Lando noticing that something has happened Daniel but not knowing what. Maybe Max and him broke up over the winter break, and Lando had been talking to Daniel and it suddenly stopped. So when they meet to prep for the season, Daniel is closed off and quiet and just hanging out in the garage or alone. He's stopped laughing, and he just seems sad whenever a camera isn't on him

So Lando makes it his mission to try cheer up Daniel. Despite nothing working, Lando keeps trying even when Daniel gets a little snarky with him but in the end it works! Daniel laughs and Lando is just so proud, he can't stop looking and its as he is looking that he realises that maybe he wanted to make Daniel laugh because he likes the way Daniel looks when he's like this.

Lando feels awkward about it because 'Danny would never like me back', and he doesn't want to make him uncomfortable so he's trying to control this crush while also getting closer to him. Meanwhile Daniel is struggling with the fact that a crush on Lando had crept up on him and he doesn't know how to react. He clearly likes the younger but he's struggling with his lingering feelings for Max, and the hurt of seeing him with someone else almost immediately fter they broke up

When they do talk, Daniel tells him about how Max broke his heart because Dan was ready for a life with Max but Max was in love with someone else. And it hurt because Max was so guilty and torn up about it, and it wasn't like he expected this and he didn't want to hurt Dan but it did because that was his Max. They'd talked about spending their lives together and then he fell for Charles when neither of them expected it and it broke Daniel

Lando just holds him that night and he tells him that he's there and if Dan is never ready for them to be more than they are, then that's okay because Lando just wants Dan to be happy

I can see Lando having a talk with Max after Monza, Max notices something has changed between them and Max goes to talk to Lando and asks him not to hurt Dan because Dan deserves something good. It causes a bit of tension between Max and Lando because "You broke his heart, I don't think you have the right to speak about him like this anymore"

[a-libra-writes]

okay so like what i thought of was basically it’s a stark reader(robb’s twin) like in the hc, BUT up until theon left to go recruit his father they had a kind of unspoken thing going on and we’re clearly in love with each other just neither one had the guts to say it(theon would even pick out whores specifically bc they looked like the reader) and so(like in the hc) roose bolton captures her and their direwolf at the red wedding to marry her to ramsay. who subsequently becomes slightly(but let’s be honest this is ramsay) obsessed with her, and one day her direwolf makes its way into the kennels only to find and lay next to theon. it refuses to come out and even snarls in a protective way if someone tried to get theon out of the kennel. the servants decide that the best way to get the direwolf out is with its owner, reader and theon have a ready reunion and he kind of snaps out of reek for a short period of time. butttttt then ramsay gets jealous and chaos ensues :))))) hope you like it!!!! yeah it is kind of based off of the hc you did lol

first of all how dare you anon???????? i thought about this ask way too much today and it HURTS

So lets start with this. Theon was ten when he was taken from his family, he’s witnessed his home be invaded and the castle walls destroyed. Heard about his older brothers being murdered. May have seen their heads on spikes. Taken from his sweet mother, and older sister, probably didn’t see his uncles and father??? there sure as shit weren’t any nice goodbyes.

Yes Ned didn’t approve of this whole thing, but he saw it as a better alternative to another war coming up. Robert saw it as mercy; he wasn’t destroying the whole Greyjoy line or burning their keep to the ground.

So with all of that, he arrives in Winterfell, where it’s freezing. Travelled with the man that may have led to the deaths of his older brothers. Meets this man’s wife, who clearly isn’t happy he’s there. And meets this man’s children, who are young and just staring at him and his strange clothes. 

Now that we’ve got that out of the way....

I really like Theon and Robb’s friendship, and how it almost progressed to the level of Jon and Robb’s brotherhood, but not quite. I think that’s because he’s older by several years in the books, and while Jon is “at least” Stark, Theon is not. He’s a hostage. A potential danger. Catlyn likely doesn’t want her oldest anywhere near him but if Robb is going off to play with the Ironborn boy, why can’t Y/N? She’ll sneak out if she has to! She wants to talk to him and ask him questions. He’s annoyed by a stupid girl trailing him around, and tells her as much. 

I like to think they have an annoying sibling relationship for a while, and Y/N is very fascinated with him, but she also has a great deal of empathy because she starts to realize his situation. She’s still a child, but she knows he was taken from his family and struggles to understand why her father would do that. Ned tries to explain it to her, but I think it’ll always feel wrong to her, so even if Theon teases her and she teases back, she’s always nice to him even when her mother tries to discourage them socializing.

And of course, my favorite trope.  They get older and start to realize feelings, she grows into a beautiful lady and still wants to hang out with him and Robb. She still smiles at him during feasts and comes to watch him practice at archery and still glares at anyone who dares insult him. “You’ll do well to keep your words to yourself, especially where it pertains to matters you don’t understand,” She’ll sneer at lordlings who come in to gawk at the Ironborn. Theon loves it when she talks “like a lady” to annoying guests and lords. She speaks far more casually with him and her siblings. 

His crush is intense!!!! It’s so much. It hits him early and puberty + Theon brain just makes it worse. Like you said, he absolutely picks whores that look similar to her - I HC he generally seeks whores at an early age bc 1) thats just an OK thing to do for young men in Westeros and 2) he’s really lacking in physical affection and acceptance in general. 

He has no chance with a Lady Y/N Stark. Not a single fucking chance, but he still daydreams. When he was younger especially, when he hoped the Starks would accept him, when he thought he’d never return home - maybe they’d see him like a son, maybe, if he was good. Maybe if he was good enough, she’d ... but no. That’s all pipe dreams. The older he gets, the more he knows it, but knowing doesn’t help the bitterness.

I think it’d be even worse if Y/N saw him in a more romantic light than a familial or platonic one. The yearning. The pain!! The shared glances after touching each other’s hands, wondering if the other person knows or cares as much, but never knowing for sure because how the hell can you ask that? How would it ever be appropriate? 

There’s so much to this. Ramsay just adds a dozen layers of angst and complications 😂

Obviously Theon’s betrayal and “death” would break her heart, among other things. The war is not kind to the Starks. She has a lot of pain by the time she’s married to Ramsay. 

Also YOU’RE BREAKING MY HEART like the idea of her direwolf sniffing out Theon, even after all that, or just seeing him and instantly curling up. Theon’s half asleep, half delirious, but he feels the warmth of the fur and for a wild moment believes it’s Grey Wind. He feels the wet nose on his face and the wolf gently licks his wounds. This isn’t the hounds that snap at him and bring their fleas. The wolf curls up with him, and it’s probably the most peaceful sleep Theon’s had in months.

Later Y/N realizes her direwolf has been gone for hours and searches for it in a panic. She doesn’t want to go into the dungeons, she hates them, hates the sounds and the smells coming from them, but she doesn’t know where else to look. She’s sick to her stomach wondering why her wolf is down there, what if Ramsay -? No. He wouldn’t... would he?

And yes, Ramsay’s men have been trying to get Theon out per their master’s orders and can’t. The direwolf refuses. Theon has to crawl out on his own, all bones and scars and scabs and wounds, and the wolf sticks to his legs. Shows its teeth to anyone even looking at him. That’s when Y/N hears the commotion and comes down, she has no idea who this old man is - then... Recognition. Terrifying, heart-wrenching recognition.

When she holds him, she’s not sure who falls down first. It could be either of them; Theon from weakness and shock, her from heartache and relief. And he’s Theon again. He says his name, and her’s, and it’s hard for him to think straight and get the words out. But there is I’m sorry.

She demands an explanation from Roose. There’s no point in hiding it now. And she turns on Ramsay for it, and lord knows he won’t feel guilty about it. I feel like Theon would get slightly better treatment now, both because the direwolf is at his heels as much as Y/N’s and now she has a close eye on him. If anything else happens, she’s going to raise hell in the Dreadfort. All the anger and fire and outrage has been stoked again. Ramsay is not pleased with any of these developments.

And yeah if she and Theon had romantic feelings, this is about to get much more complicated :^)

[redplanetlobster]

I literally just kinda explained in the comments of this post, but I'll do it again and probably a bit more long winded since I don't have a character limit lol.

The thing is I think it's actually kinda supposed to feel like Jmart came out of left field due to the medium of it being a podcast. We don't get the luxury of a stream of consciousness like we do in books or of body language like we do in movies. All we have is what the characters say, and as we know, characters love to lie (or just avoid talking about things).

We only know about Jon's dreams due to Jonah giving a statement about them, despite the fact that they probably started in season 1 either after the first statement or at the very least after Naomi's. Jon hates telling us things about himself. He only likes to talk about all of the stupid decisions he's making (ex. All of season 2). The only times we truly learn things about him are four times (3/4 being not from Jon himself).

1. The statement he gave about Mr. spider 2. Jonah giving a statement about his dreams 3. The person who made a statement about him taking a statement from her and 4. Him literally getting outed by Melanie to Bassira (which is a completely different topic but one I am just as passionate about). There are probably others that I'm forgetting, but you get the point.

Keeping this in mind, there's also the fact that even in Canon there are (typically) week long breaks between each recording. And with the implications of other recordings that we never hear (characters talking about how the recorders just seem to show up sometimes) we were never going to get the entire picture until it was relevant.

We were tangled in the siders web just as much as Jon was. The only things we hear are what are relevant, will keep us entertained, and wanting more.

Jon and Martin's relationship (and how it evolved) never truly became important until it was Jon's driving factor in season four. And so it makes sense that the first time we really hear about the possibility of romance in their relationship is when Jon is in the Lonley and we are curious enough to 'need to know'.

Martin saying, "I really loved you," is truly the first time that we plainly hear about the love that they hold for each other, not because it never came up, but because it wasn't relevant to the listener. You could argue that the conversation between Melanie and Bassira was actually the first time, but I would disagree. There is a difference between gossiping about a perceived crush and two characters looking at each other and plainly talking about their feelings (or as plainly as we get before season 5).

There are also things like the Pre-episode, Martin's Poetry (Epiphany in particular), and certain Patron audios*. The things that we glean from these recordings are things that we already have a want to know. We never would have had a need to hear them until the relationship between Jon and Martin solidified into anything other than 'a boss who hates his employee and the same employee being a pushover who wants to keep the peace'.

*I am thinking about the ostrich one in particular but mainly because I find it kinda cute and consider it a Jmart audio. You may not and that's okay.

Truly, it is a miracle that we know the nature of their relationship at all, especially considering all of the things that happen off screen in the Magnus Archives. If the Lonley had never happened or if Martin had said anything else in those moments I doubt that their relationship would have ever become a forefront of the recordings in season five. Perhaps leading their relationship to be mainly ambiguous until the very last moments. We the listeners would have had no reason to wonder at or be concerned for the state of their bond as these two men clung to each other, looking for some stability in the new world of fear and terror.

That's all for now, but I'm sure more things will come to me.

You know, for someone who has struggled writing essays even in grade school, I could truly write a dissertation on how Jmart didn't actually come out of left field, was truly always there, and how the arc actually makes a lot of sense for the characters and the medium of the story with how much I've been ranting to myself about it.

[wildsunscorpion]

How Bum Geon Woo communicates through his body language (Plus how he's actually giving the special treatment Eui Joon's been yearning for)

I reread DCS for, like, the tenth time now. Yes, I'm obsessed ohmygod! I'm liking how these two characters are written so far. I originally wanted to break down just Chapters 20-24 of DCS because the first time I read it I got just a little annoyed with how Geon Woo (a.k.a. Ahjussi) was, let's say, just kind of pushing Euijoon's limits. But I ended up doing more than just Chapters 20-24. Dios mio.

I was just a little tired of seeing the same trend with guys in manhwa. They always seem to be domineering, especially if their partner is the "sweet and naive" archetype. (Eui Joon, I think, does not really fit into this mold.) Of course, that's usually because they're dealing with their own issues, and I don't really blame them.

But I like DCS because it justified that kind of behavior in Geon Woo when he was having sex with Eui Joon (in Chapters 20-24, particularly). Lol I'm probably the only one who realized this later than I should have ehehe. I'm still posting this tho.

WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD‼️‼️

His antics speak volumes. It's amazing how I missed all those details just because the sex scenes were. Steamy. As. Fuck. Good lordy! Geon Woo is definitely a man of few words (He once said Eui Joon makes him talk like he would for a whole year, haha!), so it would make sense to communicate whatever's going through his mind in a situation through body language.

I also want to add the times that he makes the effort to hold a conversation with Eui Joon. Geon Woo doesn't really talk when he doesn't need to, so it's important to pay attention to his actions.

☙ ☙ ☙ ☙ ☙

Chapters 0-12

The first time we get a glimpse of Geon Woo's side of the story was when Eui Joon finally confesses to the person who's been his crush for 3 effing years, Hyeon Woo. Eui Joon is inexplicably happy when Hyeon Woo says he'll consider and comes to the convenience store in good spirits. Geon Woo, keen as always, notices, and when Eui Joon tells him what happened this is what we get:

It's the way it was framed. How we see his reaction from behind rather than from the front. He turns away, seeming to go inward and brood once again.

Afterwards, another gangster comes. The guy challenges Geon Woo for taking too long at the front of the line. Geon Woo asks Eui Joon if he smokes, and when he replies that he doesn't, Geon Woo "borrows" the lighter on the countertop and uses that to throw a stronger punch to the man behind him, who temporarily falls unconscious. Geon Woo turns back to Eui Joon, seeming to have something else to say. But he sees the frightened look on Eui Joon's face and decides to keep it to himself before leaving through the door.

"And..." He pauses, turning to Eui Joon. "... Never mind. Good work."

JUST WHAT WAS HE ABOUT TO SAY?!?!?!

In the succeeding panel, Eui Joon is nonplussed. He wonders out loud, "What is happening?" Couldn't have said it better, girl. Geon Woo was just taking out his frustration and he had the perfect opportunity at the moment.

The second time was when Geon Woo invites Eui Joon to drink after the incident with Hyeon Woo (who basically asks Eui Joon to cheat with him and inebriates him—probably with the intention to take advantage of him). From the side stories, we learn that Geon Woo has taken an interest in Eui Joon after seeing him for the second time, and when he comes by through the hallway—finally discovering they were neighbors—and witnesses the two, he sees it as a chance with Eui Joon.

He invites Eui Joon out to drink, after Eui Joon's suggestion for a dinner at 2 in the morning fails to entice him. Eui Joon rambles his questions away, wanting to get to know him better, but Geon Woo doesn't immediately answer and catches him off guard when he "casually" inquires after his sexuality. Not the smoothest move there, lol, but in the side stories we see that wasn't really his intention.

"Damn it, why did I ask that question? It just slipped out..."

He answers Eui Joon's questions afterwards, surprising Eui Joon with the fact that he's actually been listening to what he's been saying for the past minute. We're starting to see just what kind of a person he is (Listening skills are always a plus in my book).

A little later, we see them on their way back to the apartment. Eui Joon asks Geon Woo to tell him anything interesting because he's been the one talking all night. Geon Woo acquiesces, asking a question that may have been part in consideration of Eui Joon's vulnerable state, and perhaps also part due to the possibility that he worried about him.

"Come to think of it... School has already started. Isn't it tiring to work 'til dawn? Aren't you working too much?"

Geon Woo's face is a little hard to read. So every subtle change in his expression says something. If you read the manhwa, you'll see the slightest bit of concern in his eyes. It's hard to catch until you've read the side stories (at least for me, haha).

One more thing I like about Geon Woo is that he doesn't meddle when it's not his business. He knows the state of Eui Joon's family—their inability to afford his college tuition, his hospitalized brother—and he knows he can help. I mean, I don't know how wealthy and powerful he is as a gangster but he probably has the means to. But he rarely opens the topic to Eui Joon.

Aaaand onto Chapter 8! Just before the first sex scene in the entire series. Eui Joon is crying because he had a shitty day both at school and at work, poor thing—all because of Hyeon Woo. He cries even more when he notices that Geon Woo, who came to the store every day, didn't come to the store that day. When he encounters him outside, he breaks down, catching Geon Woo off guard.

Geon Woo tells his lackey to leave and asks Eui Joon to stay. Eui Joon tells him he was fine and proceeds to go back to his room, but Geon Woo frightens him when he says he was already being nice. And then we get this:

"Ah, I don't mean it that way... Just a while."

That gentle tug is honestly so uncharacteristic of the usual ruffian behavior we often see from Geon Woo. It's a nice sweet detail that proves what he says in Chapter 26 (when he finally confesses) that he treats Eui Joon differently from others.

Eui Joon cries his heart out to Geon Woo, and Geon Woo just lets him. Afterwards, Eui Joon resolves to forget about Hyeon Woo. By finding someone, hmm, more physically endowed.

"I must find someone more good-looking than him. With a nicer body... And a bigger dick!"

Clueless guy basically described the man beside him.

To that, Geon Woo says:

"How long have you known me? You really dare to say anything like that in front of me?"

Which comes off as slightly hostile at first. The next panel shows a dark aura surrounding Geon Woo, which Eui Joon interprets as distress from his implications of doing it with him—whose sexual preference so far remains ambiguous (In the side stories, we learn that Geon Woo himself struggles with figuring this out.). But then, he surprises Eui Joon when he slowly leans in to kiss him.

CUE SEX SCENE! I pitied Eui Joon a little because he wasn't really in the best state when Geon Woo offered this. In Geon Woo's defense, though, from the moment he found out that Eui Joon was gay he saw doors opening. When Eui Joon said something like that, I think his attraction to Eui Joon finally caught up to him and he couldn't resist the opportunity. He definitely wasn’t distressed by the implication of Eui Joon’s words; he was distressed by the decision he had to make—to go through that door or not. Because he knew he wanted it, even though he was constantly denying it from the start.

“This dirty thought wasn’t something that I have planned from the beginning.”

The day after, Eui Joon is a little rattled. He doesn’t know how to treat Geon Woo after that—not when he realized that sex could be that hot and satisfying (uwu). Geon Woo appears to be unaffected while Eui Jon’s brain is in knots about everything. But the questions Geon Woo asks tell us that he’s beginning to show Eui Joon a little emotion. He asks to see Eui Joon’s face to inspect the healing bruise he got yesterday (the one that Geon Woo covered with a bandaid—which was so sweet, huhu). And then, he asks if he was tired after school.

“Let me see your face.”

“School classes. Are you tired after taking them?”

From my perspective, he wasn’t just asking for the sake of being nice to the person he slept with. The story still hasn’t covered much of Geon Woo’s history to know whether he had been like this with his previous partners. Although there was a moment in Chapter 27 during one of their conversations when he gave us a little glimpse:

Geon Woo: It's normal to cry over pathetic things at your age. Eui Joon: Have you cried like that before too? Geon Woo: No. Eui Joon: Then how do you know that? Geon Woo: I just... know. Because there was a guy like that around.

From the time Geon Woo invited him out to drink, I think Geon Woo was genuinely concerned when he asked how Eui Joon was doing.

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Chapters 13-26

Geon Woo's love language, I think, is his actions. He fights off the gangsters that bully Eui Joon into giving them discounts or even paying for them from his own pockets so they won't have to. He gives Eui Joon food and medicine when he finds out he was sick (the morning after having sex with him in the car for hours, lol). He likes taking care of the person he likes. So in Chapter 26, when he "confesses" to Eui Joon, that was Geon Woo pointing out that he's been doing the same thing all along.

"I mean, look at me just once... What kind of person I am. How I treat you. Take a good look at it. If you think that I'm good, then pick me. If not, you can throw me aside." "But. Before you do, you should understand this. Until then, I don't intend to let you get away."

This "non-confession" (he actually tells Eui Joon it wasn't a confession) actually says a lot about Geon Woo. His attitude towards their relationship is very blunt and straightforward. Once he's made a decision, he stops listening to his doubts and stands by it. I don't really know when Geon Woo decided that he liked Eui Joon. It was more slow-growing. In the side stories though, we see him considering this big-time when this thought crosses his mind:

"There's the common phrase of having the opportunity to meet your fateful love. If there's a sign for it, would it be possible to stay vigilant?"

AHJUSSI YOU SOFT-HEARTED ROMANTIC I CAN'T T^T He becomes more bold with Eui Joon afterwards, but he's still a little prickly. He's constantly weighing his options, trying to figure out in what way will doing the things he does for Eui Joon benefit him, if at all. In Chapter 13, when a customer comes inside the store and forces Eui Joon to pay for what he bought, he's on the scales. But then the memory of that morning flashes through his mind, and he remembers how the simple act of Eui Joon giving him his number had made him smile like an idiot. He beats the customer for him, taking the money he owed, and gives it back to Eui Joon. He even manages to casually ask him out on a date. The guy can be smooth as fuck.

Eui Joon: Are you saying... we should eat together? Geon Woo: Sure. I guess I've done something worth compensating. Will you give me my reward?

Take notes, people! At this point, Eui Joon has gotten him wrapped around his finger, and he didn't even know it! Of course, Eui Joon still thinks their relationship is only purely sexual, but then Geon Woo begins doing these uncharacteristically tender gestures that Eui Joon initially interprets as Geon Woo giving him special treatment.

"Let me see your face." "School classes. Are you tired after them" "I'm thinking that... You'll look good in short hair, too."

And Geon Woo even tries to initiate a conversation with Eui Joon when he feels like Eui Joon couldn't take the awkwardness. A good example was when Geon Woo treats him dinner at the restaurant.

"...." "Is this your first time coming to this kind of place?"

Somehow, these things he does still feel kind of forced, like he was genuinely annoyed at Eui Joon and everything he did. Even when he asks to do it with him again and Eui Joon refuses because he was still sore, there was a moment of frustration that shone through.

It was a sign that Geon Woo was still confused about the things he was feeling towards Eui Joon. He knew he wanted him physically, but then he doesn't take up the woman's offer that evening after Eui Joon refuses him. It wasn't actually written on paper, but knowing Geon Woo's character he might have felt uneasy about going through with it. Not particularly on Eui Joon's behalf, but it may have been unconscious because of his budding feelings.

His feelings were something that rattled him, and he was usually undeterred in any kind of situation. What rattled him more was that Eui Joon didn't know anything about what he was going through.

"Being naturally attracted to you, and going through unfamiliar emotions. This feeling should only be felt at an adolescent age."

We're seeing him from behind again. The use of this perspective in manhwas / mangas / comics usually makes you feel like can't tell what the character's thinking about, but most importantly that they're most likely about to go do or SAY SOMETHING DAMN IMPORTANT. Like, maybe, telling their feelings to the person they like!?!?!

"Eui Joon-Ah. I like you."

ASDFGHJKL DID ANYONE SEE THAT COMING?!?!?!

That actually surprised me hella lot. I'd originally thought Geon Woo was the tsundere type, but he was more honest with his feelings than I believed. However, he hadn't been completely convinced by these feelings until Eui Joon had offered to break it off. Suddenly there was an exit to his situation, but he didn't really feel happy about it. He was frustrated at not being able to properly understand what his words made him feel. Because the truth was he didn't want to break things off. He just wouldn't admit to himself at the time that the reason was he actually wanted Eui Joon.

We could see him debating it himself, poor thing:

"I didn't expect myself to be in a situation where I couldn't even understand my own feelings. I should've figured it out the moment I couldn't understand my sexual preference. I'm not that young anymore... What is this?" "No... It could also be a spur of the moment... It doesn't seem to be like that. It might also be due to pride, but I feel it's not necessary for these kinds of feelings to affect my pride... But even when it's like this, I still want to..."

Geon Woo decides to "have a little fun" before conceding to Eui Joon's request to "end their entanglement". But I've noticed that whenever something bothers Geon Woo too much, he takes a smoke. When Eui Joon makes the suggestion, Geon Woo does just that.

The slightly rough way in which Geon Woo treats him afterwards shows his frustration. He grabs his arm roughly and pulls him towards the car, but he doesn't realize he was hurting Eui Joon's wrist with his own watch until Eui Joon whines in pain—at which point Geon Woo just laces his hand through his instead. Which I thought was so sweet T^T

When Eui Joon freaks out about doing it at the school where he studies and asks Geon Woo to consider it for him, Geon Woo says, "Do I have to consider that for you too?" And when Eui Joon asks for him to do that, Geon Woo replies, "I guess I've been too nice to you." THE MAN WAS FREAKING FRUSTRATED!!! Geon Woo even challenges him to stay quiet, telling him no one will hear them if he does. Throughout the whole thing, Geon Woo wanted to dominate him, daring him to take what pleasure he could give him, but with an aggression that bespeaks the storm in his heart and mind. Reading it back, I realized just how damn hot that scene was. I mean, goddamn. After Geon Woo admits his feelings, there's a serenity about him afterwards. He no longer has to second-guess taking care of Eui Joon or expressing what he felt towards him. He gives him food and medicine the next day since he caught a fever. He "invites himself" to watch a movie with him since they both had nothing to do for the rest of the day. The guy was basically courting Eui Joon, haha. Not a confession, my ass XD

And then, when Eui Joon opens up about how he rejected Hyeon Woo, Geon Woo tells him he'll also wait for him for around three years T^T

MY HEART I CAN'T T ^ T ☙ ☙ ☙ ☙ ☙ So that's kiiind of a long breakdown. I included as little pictures as possible. Copyright and all that. I just really like this series so far. I want to be able to read the original someday. Hopefully I'd be able to learn Korean T^T. If you like this as much as I do, chat me up =D would love to hear other thoughts.

[kaypeace21]

I believe that byler is an endgame

but why would they spend 3 seasons winding up with mileven?

People REALLY need to pay attention to the shows the Duffers cited as huge inspirations to them. Cheers,dawsons creek, freak &geeks did exactly what the Duffers are doing (and the Duffers said these shows inspired them)

. Cheers for over 5 seasons built up the pairing of sam and Dianne- had them break up in the s5 finale and then in the last 2 eps of the 11th season have them get back together and once again break up explaining for the 100th time they were wrong for each other and brought out the worst in eachother . Cheers would build up multiple pairings (Frasier /Lilith (s4-11/broke up in s11) , sam/Dianne (s 1-11, broke up in s11 permanently) , rebecca /sam (s8-10) Rebecca/robin (s8-9) -these pairings lasted for multiple seasons and they all broke up! They built pairings up for multiple seasons but showed throughout the show why those pairing in cheers could never work out in the long term. The same Thing happened with almost every pairing in Dawson’s creek (they’d build up multiple pairings up -sometimes for multiple seasons- sprinkle in good but also dysfunctional aspects of those relationships- and then break them apart for good ).

Also in Dawson’s creek 2 characters (a rich girl and poor guy with daddy issues) date and breakup- but both of their gay brothers get together and are endgame instead of them (cough jancy vs byler). One of the gay guys (the rich one with the book smart sis) even dated the main girl (Joey) for a while before admitting he was gay and that he was in denial (while dating the main girl for more than a season ). In D.C even the main guy(Dawson) / girl (Joey) don’t end up being endgame (despite teasing it for all 5 seasons) . They did this with a lot of couples in the show. Honestly, the Duffers pretty much borrowed this idea of showing pairings with issues and breaking them up -but toned down how long they’d bait them . Like 11seasons of showing dysfunctional couples date -ick. And Dawson’s creek ... my god it had a literal love octogon/ love webs (so many love squares/pentagons/ and on and off relationships). The 1 adult couple broke up and I’m not exaggeration 4 times, and Dawson got back with 2 of his girlfriends like so many times. And ugh I’d say each (of the 4-5) main characters dated at least 4 people -and each of those relationships lasted for like 20+ eps each... and then after all that build up -break up ). That’s not even including the people the main 5 or so characters would date for like 5-6 eps . Thank god it was toned down compared to Dawson’s creek or cheers. i can’t imagine the frustration watching those shows during its airing 😂

Freaks & geeks (set in the 80s)was also inspo.14 y old Sam who is bullied and called “homo” “queer” etc throughout the whole series - he also obsesses over a cheerleader girl for the whole series and in the second to last ep of the series- they finally start dating  and he realizes they have nothing in common and says “it’s boring. all we ever do is makeout.She likes nothing i like. We can’t talk to eachother. We never have fun.” And he admits he only keeps dating her cause everyone would call him “crazy” to not date her. sam and her are also said to be “from different planets” and “different species”  just like mileven in s3 lol.  The gf of  sam also says before they dated she saw him ‘like a sister’ (like El asking mike if he’d be her brother in s1, before they date). And after this sibling comment various characters -encouraged the couple and said they would be good together (before they dated-like what we’ve seen in st with mileven and other ships ).Sam eventually decides to not cave to peer pressure- and breaks up with her. Meanwhile sam’s sis (is a straight A student, who is initially into a popular guy and starts hanging with the cool kids).  After getting over the first (popular) guy, she later dates another guy- a music-obsessed-stoner-guy  with a cruddy dad...and she breaks up with him (like jancy?). That couple was even called ‘romeo & juliet’ before they broke up-similar to mileven being called “romeo & juliet’ before their breakup. plus r&j were never in love... just like mileven.

All 3 shows had the main guy/girl date but not end up with eachother in the end . And both shows -would build up several pairings that looked like endgame but would show faults in those relationships and would have them breakup (because those pairings were never that healthy together). Which I believe is what they’re doing with jancy, jopper, mileven and lumax (explained in my analysis here all the evidence for why I don’t think they don’t end up together). I mean there’s many reasons I listed in the analysis but you think it’s a coincidence - jancy, lumax, mileven , and Steve/rando girl who rejected him in s3-all incorportated spying on their love interest ? you think the duffers think that’s good to have all these romantic pairings spy on eachother? When in the show they canonically have the us gov (villains) spy via phone taps, and hidden recorders, and cameras? Brenner used El as a spy for his own gain ? they even call the mf a ‘spy’ (which the characters perceive as the  main villain)... i don’t think the mf is  actually villainous but that’s off topic).The point is narratively equating spying as something ‘wrong’ by characters our main cast of heroes is against. But having that same cast of heroes partaking in spying themselves … specifically on to their romantic partners- and not also showing it as a negative. But romanticizing it? Would be quite hypocritical. And a HUGE narrative oversight.

Also build up?

S1- mileven kiss right after el asks if he’ll be her “friend” or “brother”. Has others compare el to mike’s sibling /cousin. Hint Will is gay . Have hints mike is queer too/ and cares deeply about Will. Constantly mention how el physically resembles Will/a boy. Parallel mileven to ted/Karen who were “never in love”. Have Nancy and mike verbally compare the jancy/stancy love triangle to mileven/byler . And at the end of the season mike writes a story for Will that likens the 2 to han/leia. Flo says about jancy/Jon “ only love makes you that crazy and that damn stupid”. (Which flo wasn’t entirely right about since jon punched Steve for insulting his family- for Jon it was familial love -not romantic love. But put a pin in that phrase)

S2- was pretty much byler season (and mileven barely interact that season). Byler say they’d go “crazy together”. But el’s new catchphrase is she’s “not stupid.” They Compare mileven to luke/leia (siblings that kissed) . Ref ghostbusters and parallel byler to the romantic pairing of Dana /venkman (but have el just be a ghost and mike a ghost buster which isn’t romantic but the opposite) .parallel mileven to hopper/el. Have el spy on mike, el hurt a stranger cause of unhealthy jealousy, have mileven dance to a song about a possessive spying/Stalking ex gf . Throw in mileven burns like “they’re not in love they’re not even from the same planet.” (El being et ref) . Have mike say annoyed “a bond ?! (Scoff) cause you shared nougat?! “ (egos like s1 ) “. Mike saying after knowing max for a week “hate you? I don’t even know you?” (He knew el for a week too so no way he loves her -cause he doesn’t know el , just like max ) . mike even criticizes his friends’ instant attraction to max saying “you haven’t even spoken a word to her.”Dustin saying “ I don’t have to . I mean -look at her.” Which makes it even more suspicious that mike was into a girl who multiple characters said looked like a boy (specifically Will) in s1. Have El watch a soap opera (all my children) and mimic the scene of  erica kane and her love interest michael. Which in the soap opera-isn’t endgame, and ended with some stalking after their breakup.

S3- mileven is finally dating : multiple characters (lucas, Will, Hopper, dustin,Max, etc) in the show dislike and verbally complain about them together . In cheers all of sam’s friends hated him dating Dianne and would vocally complain about it (similar to joyce they even clapped/cheered after 1 of their many breakups) . Mike is horrified by the spying(that mileven fans romanticized in s2) , el is happier single and neither is heartbroken over the breakup. They date for 2 eps and then breakup . Mileven being together inhibits El’s character arc from s2 (aka she went from wanting to explore the world and leave the cabin in s2 to see her friends, to ignoring her friends and cutting herself off from the world in order to stay in the cabin all day to make out with mike for 6 months - she would literally lie to her friends about curfew to return to the cabin and kiss mike -going against her ‘friends don’t lie’ mantra from the past 2 seasons too ). Mike canonically doesn’t trust her / doesn’t believe in her ability to make decisions and lies to her and never apologizes for lying. And el doesn’t apologize for spying . They throw in more gay hints of mike & Will. Mileven is called “bullshit” like s2 stancy . And Both pairings in the show kissed a bunch and said “I love you” (but they weren’t endgame). They also contrast s3 mileven scenes to s2 byler scenes and have byler win out. And once again parallel mileven to hopper/el and Karen/ted. As well as paralleling and likening Mileven to stancy in numerous other ways (besides the “bullshit “ line) . They also parallel mileven to stobin (both are straight baits) .They parallel the stobin confession to the mileven one -both confessions have them sitting on the floor, both girls have bandages on their legs, and both confessions are interrupted by dustin. Also both Steve/mike use the terms “crazy & stupid ” to confess to robin/el. But unlike Will who agrees to be “crazy “ with mike .El confused , asks “ what makes you crazy?” And robin says she didn’t have a crush on his “stupid hair”. el even says in reference to mike “there’s more to life than stupid boys.” Showing how el/robin don’t have romantic feelings for the boys-like the flo phrase of s1. Unlike Will who after fighting with mike calls himself “stupid” over and over and rips up the photo of him and mike where they promised to go “crazy together.” Even Steve says in s2 stancy should should “pretend to be stupid teenagers” in love. Emphasis on “pretend”. And when el says she loves mike “the first I love you” plays -the only other time that song plays in s3 is when robin rejects Steve (cause she’s gay.) cough cause mike is gay too.

There’s a lot more in each season (that illustrates mileven was built up -but not as a positive couple but a problematic one that was never was in love to begin with ). But I’m trying to keep this short . You can read this post here where I go in more depth about all of this .

S1-2 builds up the problematic ships (but showed good and bad aspects of their dynamic) . like the spying of jancy, lumax, and mileven or the jealousy. of Hopper in s2. In the s2 finalie they have them kiss or hug/exchange romantic glances. And in S3 we see the after math of this with all the couples officially dating - and they show all the couples issues at the forefront . I already talked about mileven. But, Lumax broke up 6 times (they dated for 6 months- and every month they dated max dumped him ). Jancy fight in the opening of ep 1 and don’t understand each others issues (sexism/poverty-and Jon’s issues with his dad) . And neither supports the other in their passions of journalism & photography.Nancy is also called “nancy drew” who in 1986 (year of s4) before going to college dumps her long term highschool bf (who helped her in many of her past mysteries/novels ). Their relationship was also shown as complex and somewhat dysfunctional because of both parties -before nancy drew dumps him. And (even if not dating like the other pairings) jopper almost go on a date in s3. Joyce was trying to hide the fact she was moving, Hopper was horribly jealous, and all they did was yell and argue.Murray says to joyce regarding hopper “he’s a brute... probably reminds you of a bad relationship” (aka lonnie/Joyce) . They even have Joyce watch a cheers ep- which directly compares jopper to (dianne/Frasier) who weren’t endgame in cheers but a rebound .  Hopper /fraiser both drink chianti . Fraiser asks dianne to marry him/Hopper asks Joyce on a date-both women stand them up. Or when Joyce asks Hopper out she calls her self ‘detective byers ‘and Hopper name drops miami vice. Which had an on and off again relationship for several seasons- of the male /female detectives.The relationship faded out as Gina realized they mainly got together when one or both needed someone. Crockett was very protective of Gina, and had some jealousy when Gina was involved in relationships , but was the first one to be there for her when things went wrong. And they realized it was better to not be together romantically. Heck seems like all these couples have negative film/tv parallels... lucas in s2 mentions not liking winston in ghost busters cause he came ‘super late’ (like Max). in s1 disses michael myers (which Max dressed as). And at the end of s3- lumax dress identically to eric/donna from a ep of that 70s shows (in the ep  eric/donna were broken up).

 (s3 was marketed as the “summer of love” and “summer love” is a euphemism for flings that don’t last.) s4-5 Will probably show good healthy ships/break up the problematic ones from past seasons .

So first 2 seasons focus on the unhealthy ships / and the last 2 seasons focus on healthy ships. S3 the middle season would be considered the turning point -and why none of the popular ships (assumed to be endgame) came off looking that great (compared to how they were presented in s1-2) .

[janiedean]

i remember your villain origin story re: robb and i also remember all the associated metas about sansa painting her as this massively intelligent lady when she's 11 saying that she didn't say the truth about joff during the whole wolf incident is because she was aware of the political implications and how joff would behave and she has this whole betrothed role to fulfil and she's actually protecting arya by lying and ned is the one to blame AND arya is also to blame because she was needling the future prince and she is too stupid to realize that is dangerous etc. BUT sansa is also an 11 yr old so she made a mistake by going to cersei in book 1 and telling her about ned's plans like ???? pick a side??? lol.

i know sansa got a lot of hate for the wolf + cersei thingy but really it's not that deep. she had a huge crush on joff+ had a huge dream of being this storybook princess + got scared about the whole wolf incident and didnt wanna be hated by joff and cersei whom she adored + idealized, wasn't on the best of terms with arya. and hence she did a dumb 11 yr old mistake. which we also view primarily from arya's pov who really didn't do anything wrong in that one incident so ofcourse readers judge sansa for it. it's not that deep. but you cant go both ways and claim she is some mastermind at 11 while arya is dumb and ned irresponsible for letting arya play around dangerously while at the same time argue that sansa was 11 and made a mistake at the end. that's deliberately misreading EVERY OTHER character to prop up your fave - robb, arya, ned, theon, jon. (not to mention sansa also continuously blames arya and nymeria for the incident in the later book iirc but she has a thing about misremembering stressful periods so).

this has honestly been going on for a looong while. i used to stan sansa and it's true that she got a lot of misogynistic hate in the earlier seasons but the way some stans *cough*yourvillainoriginlady*cough* would behave towards every other character was just ugh. also the latter crop of j*onsa shippers from s6 onwards had a tendency to play down arya and jon's bond too. (the show can be blamed for that partially given that we didn't get jeyne!arya and jon forsaking his vows to rescue arya + giving sansa the "lone wolf dies but the pack survives" line which is literally arya's theme line but yeah). and i'm not even getting into reducing brienne and arya to qween sansa's swords like they're only there to serve sansa lmfao and shipping her with every character that's supposed to be good looking even if it makes 0 sense (jaime, jon, gendry) while ignoring canonical love interests (sandor and tyrion) as if the same problems of age + power + incest don't exist in their ships lol.

good thing I'm not the only one who remembers her and her absurd takes on just about everything not counting that one time she wrote that letter to EW because sansa showed cleavage in her cover and then called ramsay psychotic in it, had to emend because that's not how it works and then apologized for having been offensive but sure af she didn't apologize to me when she called me psychotic for telling her that her robb opinions were literally made up but GREAT TIMES X°DDD and I mean there was the amazing 'robb obv doesn't care about his sister or he'd have known she was being manipulated when he got her letter' and like I'm the least person to blame sansa for falling for it bc she was eleven and cersei is cersei and ofc she had no idea what she was doing but... how was robb supposed to know that X°DDDDDDD also no one is a political genius at 11 and it's all right like that but go and tell her that...

also agreed re the wolf incident but honestly like sansa getting hate for it or for anything she did during agot is stupid bc you don't hate an eleven year old for being an eleven year old we all were like that at some point??? but at the same time bashing on arya for that is like... bruh what the fucking fuck did she ever do to you???

that's deliberately misreading EVERY OTHER character to prop up your fave - robb, arya, ned, theon, jon.

I mean again robb was painfully obvious but the thing is that like... usually putting down other chars to prop up your fave means you like your fave for the wrong reasons since it means you never talk about the actual good things abt your fave (I mean these people live assuming that sansa's kindness isn't what actually propels her/is making sure she survives/is what will eventually be what gives her the upper hand in the end but no I have to read it was ic that she gave ramsay to the dogs in the show ffff) and you don't have to prop down everyone else or their bonds with other chars to like.. make your point? anyway sansa used to be in my asoiaf top ten now she's more top fifteen bc the show soured me but like I love booksansa and I 100% stan her, I was done with the show version by the end of S6 so I'm not even going there and the thing about showtruthing but then saying the books will be like that... needs to stop. also I'mma not going to touch the arya and brienne can only be in her qg arguments to make sense of their being gnc/into swords because honestly I have no force of will nor strength to get into why that discussion is not as progressive as ppl think it is but I think for me that was the straw breaking the camel's back if I wasn't already fed up with the casual ableism at sandor and tyrion and whatever else *raises hands*