#(i also like daemon and laena but just the stuff i make up in my head not the stuff we see in the show)

[navree]

Just for fun: if Tywin was in Otto's place for the Dance but with Alicent as his daughter instead of Cersei, how do you think it would have played out?

I think a lot of pre-Dance stuff would play out largely the same, given that there are similarities between Otto and Tywin and how their lives played out and what they wanted. But there's a key difference between them: Otto's very much focused on personal advancement, placing Alicent as an option for queen and Aegon in the line of succession for king is all about how that can help him get as much power as he wants (cuz Second Son Complex I guess), while Tywin is all about family advancement. He has his personal cares and his personal wants, yes, but Tywin's primary focus is on advancing the Lannister name, the Lannister glory, the Lannister agenda. So while yes, Tywin would likely also want Alicent to be made queen, and would want to do whatever possible to make that happen (much like how he was all about getting a grieving Robert to marry Cersei without care to the fact that Robert was the worst man living), it would be all about family for him, about the advancement of the House.

An interesting thing of note is that Tywin is...I don't want to say less manipulative than Otto, but less personally conniving than him. Think about it: we see Tywin primarily through Tyrion's eyes, given that Jaime only gets one or two scenes with Tywin while he's still living, and Cersei none as her POV chapters start when he's already dead. So we're seeing Tywin as a character through the eyes of someone who loathes him, and who he loathes in return, but the image we get is an interesting one. Tywin isn't as overtly hostile in the books as he is in the show, and while he's clearly contemptuous of Tyrion and hates him, he is, in a strange way, able to recognize the virtues Tyrion has, and is able to be honest and frank with him. I mean Hell, Tywin admits to Tyrion, in detail, exactly what his culpability is in Elia's death (rip Elia, every single corner of this fandom does you dirty in so many different ways, I will treat you better Queen). And that's with a kid he hates.

So with a kid like Alicent, someone who's less of a letdown than Jaime, less of a constant source of irritation than Cersei, and less personally despised than Tyrion, Tywin would likely be as close to Alicent as he can be with a child of his. I mean, he's a clear narcissist and misogynist and kind of a shitty person even, but still the best character, and while he might be less openly affectionate than Otto is, we know that Tywin could form personal relationships with deep ties for him, like his love for Joanna and his affection for Kevan (and if I think about Tywin and Kevan for too long I do cry), so he and Alicent likely would be on good enough terms to be in lockstep with each other during the Dance.

How Tywin would play out during the Dance, in Otto's place, is a bit hard to game out, because the show hasn't gotten there yet and we don't know how they're going to play out certain events, but I'll theorize nonetheless while trying to keep within the events in the Fire&Blood canon. For one, Tywin would be more militantly minded than Otto was, though still working just as hard on the diplomatic front, given the cunning genius that he is, so the Greens would get an additional military commander in the field to their advantage. And because Aegon is more inclined to listen to his mother (I'd say that currently he's less trigger happy than his book counterpart too, but that might not last because of What Happened To Aegon happened to me I'd go on a murder spree for a full decade), along with Tywin being a more intimidating force than Otto, Tywin likely wouldn't be dismissed as Hand of the King, leaving Aegon with a great advisor and Tywin with a king who will listen to him and a daughter-queen who will back him up.

Ending it can go one of three ways. Either a) Tywin, as an able military commander himself, goes into the field and is killed in battle, though likely at great cost to the Blacks, b) Tywin is still in King's Landing when Rhaenyra takes over and, like Otto, is beheaded for treason or c) Greens win. If Tywin doesn't die, then he would likely help the Greens emerge victorious. We'd see marriage alliances like we do with the Tyrell marriage and the Martell marriages (given that Jahaera and Maelor can be betrothed though I don't imagine Jahaera getting married in anything but name given that "eight going on four" characterization, and he definitely would take better care keeping them safe, and Daeron's of marriageable age, and I've decided to live in a fantasy world where this means Aemond also lives and Alys gets to be Lady of Harrenhal somehow and Tywin is magically cool with this because that means they get the loyalty of Harrenhal and a great grandson as the future Lord of Harrenhal), back alley deals like with the Red Wedding with sweeteners to get wavering supporters of Rhaenyra's over to his side, and his general ability to get shit done and make them go his way means that the Greens emerge victorious and the Blacks are likely to be roundly defeated, either through out and out death like Robb, or through such a trouncing there's no choice left but exile and disappearance, like they think with Stannis.

I think we should picture that for a minute. Tywin victorious after the Dance, him at the helm of his kingdom with his daughter ready to aid in whatever way she can, Aegon is king and hopefully healing from wounds, he and Helaena start to heal and focus on raising Jahaera and Maelor, Aemond's there with his wife, Lady Alys of Harrenhal and their son, Daeron off doing whatever he does (likely after being fostered at Casterly Rock/Lannisport instead of Oldtown), Criston’s watching over them all in peak guardian stance, alliances strong, marriage pacts brokered, kingdoms being restored, Hell I'll even throw in Aegon the Younger as a nicely kept hostage for good behavior with a betrothal to Daenaera Velaryon in the future, cuz this is my happy ending with Tywin as de-facto god emperor of the world and I want it.

[helaenatargaryencore]

𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐈 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐤 𝐑𝐡𝐚𝐞𝐧𝐲𝐫𝐚 𝐓𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐞𝐧’𝐬 𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐝𝐫𝐞𝐧 𝐰𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐛𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐥 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐥𝐝 (𝐢𝐧𝐜𝐥𝐮𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐁𝐚𝐞𝐥𝐚 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐑𝐡𝐚𝐞𝐧𝐚)

(Everything about the younger children I headcannon!)

Once again feel free to disagree but be respectful my loves!

Jace

Definitely on the schools soccer team, I see Jace as a very popular figure at school but he is very gentleman like, he will carry girls books and bags to class, help teachers move chairs and tables around class and chose the kids that usually don’t get chosen into teams for PE, he has a hair care routine for his curls for sure, is a comic fan I can see it and def is a crackhead for video games, does twitch streams probably, and loves energy drinks especially before his workouts (yeah I kinda headcannon him as a gym rat!) he owns a dog named vermax btw who is a German shepherd (proudest dog dad) academically he is great in English and history, heavy on the history since his family has a huge part in it I mean they were royalty and rode dragons (yes dragons existed and went extinct like dinosaurs and shit let me believe😫) but math is a bit of a hard subject he passes with a c maybe a B if lucky.

Luke

He has not a single bad or intimidating bone in his body, an angel if you will. He is the sweetest human being who is very shy and quiet until you get him to come out of his shell then he is a comedian full on, definitely has beautiful curls, does great in all his classes just to make Rhae proud (momma’s boy) wears a single sliver band ring that Rhaenyra gifted him and he has never taken it off, has a dog named Arrax who’s a beagle, he definitely wears flannels and hoodies and owns a million pairs of converse, he smokes/vapes but not constantly because he is paranoid that his lungs would give out before the age of 30. Definitely does twitch streams and has a PC set up, is in a gaming/coding club at school for sure, probs an anime fan (I don’t know why he just gives off cute dweeb vibes!)

Baela

A queen through and through! I see her being a human/equal/animal rights activist and a feminist for sure, idk she just seems like a supportive human who people would instantly love! She def would wear pretty vibrant colors, her hair would be lovely as well (wasn’t a big fan of the wigs in the show she and phoebe basically all of house Velaryon could have had better!) I see Baela with short silver coils even a gorgeous Afro and she might even enjoy dying her hair (maybe not) but she definitely would keep her hair healthy and beautiful! I have a feeling that she would be in some sort of sport but I cannot pinpoint which one! Owns a beautiful horse (a Friesian horse) named Moondancr, she would enjoy hobbies like horse back riding, going on hikes, surfing probably, rock climbing, she also loves doing crazy daredevil stuff (gives poor Laena a heart attack but Daemon is proud) she will stand her ground and speak her mind!

Rhaena

She is so graceful, Rhaena is so kind and sweet therefore everyone was always so comfortable in her presence, she is a academic genius looking into becoming a dance/ballet instructor due to being in the dancing field her whole life, it was something she enjoyed and felt at peace doing. Has a beautiful white Birman cat named Morning, her collar and supplies are all pink and bright, Rhaena herself wears light pinks and whites even mix it up with other pastel colors, cute knitted sweaters as well. Beautiful silver hair that she would have in gorgeous braids or let her natural coils (like Laena’s) be but either way she would look gorgeous! She is close with Baela and Luke more than anybody else!

Joffrey

Totally see him being the Lily Pritchett of his family, he would constantly gag everybody (especially Aegon!) An iPad kid through and through with his YouTube and games on full volume but he would keep his hands and iPad clean for sure, does Fortnite dances idk I just vision it, gets away with everything because in Rhae’s eyes he can do no wrong, he has a dog named tyraxes (he believes in the dog distribution system as much as the cat one and randomly walked inside the house with a small flea infested pup that Rhaenyra paid a fat vet bill for) is the most honest one in the family he don’t give a fuck about anyone’s feelings you asked for the truth he’ll give it to you upfront. He has a personal vendetta against Aegon which started when he forgot him in a car when he was a baby (Aegon is paranoid and believes that is the sole reason Joffrey is against him and he may be right) He’s smart in all categories I mean good grades and is great at social situations

Aegon and Viserys

Both are attached to the hip since they are close in age, in the show I kinda don’t see much of them so to me I cannot read what they could be like. Cute kids though.

Visenya

Now since she doesn’t quite exist I headcannon that Rhaenyra gets to have her, everything about her is headcannon since yk she wasn’t alive in the show. I see her being a clone of Rhaenyra, a spoiled princess gets everything she wants (as she should) is in the best ballet school with the best instructors, her wardrobe is definitely professional made princess gowns, like she names a princess and Rhaenyra is on the phone getting it made, she has thick silver hair which she has her mommy braid just like hers, she owns millions of stuffed animals it is outrageous. Def owns a white Pomeranian pup named silverwing or Meraxes.

Okay this was fun to do! I love this whole Modern Au and I do hope you all enjoyed this read and comments, likes, and reblogs are appreciated but not required just as long as you enjoy the read💗

[visenyaism]

If the King Visenya Dance ends with Rhaenyra on the throne, who’s crowned after her? Just curious no worries if you haven’t thought about her?

Does Aegon IV still exist since Viserys was sent to Lys?

no i have a outline for this very silly conflict. buckle up under the readmore this is barely hinged and deeply unserious

so.

- Queen Rhaena (the lesbian) dies, names Saera as her successor at the last minute which no one wants to honor.

- Starts with Rhaenys on dragonstone, Baelon in KL, and Saera in Volantis headed to KL.

- Baelon still gets appendicitis and dies pretty early but everyone thinks it’s some kind of treachery.

- The war officially starts when Damon Targaryen runs into Corlys at Riverrun, trying to negotiate a betrothal between his daughter and some Muppet to back Rhaenys for the throne. fresh off of losing his father and currently consolidating support for his brother, Daemon wants someone to blame and kills Corlys.

- Daemon and Aegon (Viserys I) try to jump Rhaenys at Rook’s Rest, but she gets her way out of the trap and manages to take down Aegon’s dragon and severely injure him in the process. Aegon goes back to KL to rule and protect his daughter Rhaenyra, Daemon spends the rest of the time flying around the riverlands and lighting stuff on fire.

- while all of this is happening, there’s also an extended naval conflict between the Targannister faction, which exists, Viserra has a dragon(this is my mind palace i make the rules) and the Saera chaos faction. Two battles there:

1. combined Greyjoy/Triarchy chaos faction, almost successfully take Casterly Rock while Viserra is down by the gullet and little Jaeson (lol) tries to flee on his dragon at which point Saera’s daughter Aerea takes him down. However he just barely survives even though he loses his dragon, and the last man ended up killing Aerea, who is pinned down in enemy territory in the keep.

2. While trying to break the Triarchy blockade of the Gullet for her nephew who holds King’s Landing, Viserra and Saera have a dragon fight. Balerion is old and slow and unwieldy: takes a few scorpion bolts meant for Vermithor and goes down. Viserra and a severely injured Vermithor go down as well, some historians argue she was trying to save her drowning sister. Who knows.

- With both other factions, looking pretty bad, Rhaenys takes King’s Landing: Aegon (Viserys I) dies here, but his 10-year-old daughter Rhaenyra is able to see the city on her dragon. However, Syraxis very young at the time and takes a few hits which get infected and dies right after they makes it to the Eyrie.

- Daemon and Rhaenys kill each other over the gods eye on their parents’ dragons.

- Some variation of the storming of the dragonpit happens. Laenor and Laena successfully flee to Dragonstone, but Silverwing and Seasmoke do not :(

- No longer worried about being burned by Daemon. The Riverlands, Crownlands, and Stormlands forces are able to muster enough troops to actually get to Kings Landing and restore order.

- The war ends when they put Laenor on the throne. it ends with the wedding of Laenor and Rhaenyra to create some form of stability after everything.

- They have three kids “together.” Baela the Bdefiant, future mother of Daena Darksister, Jakey who dies in dorne with cregan stark, and Joffrey the religious freak.

- Laena stays in KL and later becomes master of coin.

- Saera’s son Viserys II is in Volantis and comes to King’s Landing with his wife Larra Rogare and their son Aegon to serve as Laenor and Jake and Joffrey’s hand after they extend an olive branch.

- The Targannister kids technically survived but lose their dragons so they’re just sort of like well you guys didn’t see any of that. we’re just lannisters now.

arc 2 of this absurd fire and blood revamp where everything is cringe in a way that’s specifically appeals to me complete

[horizon-verizon]

Daemon and Corlys are presented as masterful at both politics and military strategy, even while besieged by grief and loss, while Rhaenyra is automatically assigned the trope of hysterical mother unable to make rational or good decisions as a ruler because she’s just too steeped in mourning and later too emotionally volatile to make the right decisions. Which is funny considering that it was Daemon who was presented as emotionally volatile for the bulk of his life (before he married Laena and had his daughters, at least).

HOTD attempts to make up for this by making Rhaenyra morally white instead of morally gray, but this change is rendered meaningless when ultimately her fate is even more miserable and gut wrenching, and still does not have history absolve her. And the argument will be that it shows how “both sides are bad” but Aegon II will never face rape, grooming, domestic violence, or gendered abuse, from anyone among the Greens/his family. His “sad” backstory is simply being neglected by his father and callously disciplined by his mother.

GRRM in part wrote Rhaenyra as a litmus test for the readers’s misogyny but in my opinion it falls flat because he gets caught up in doing that and forgets to give Rhaenyra some dignity or respect as an individual character. And it’s honestly the same issue he has in the main series. Pathologizing motherhood in particular, esp. in relation to women who are also in politics while being mothers. Fathers are never “too mad with grief” to rule competently or make good decisions; only mothers are.

Please check out the comments!!!!!! Conversation abt Daemon's irrationality.

GRRM in part wrote Rhaenyra as a litmus test for the readers’s misogyny but in my opinion it falls flat because he gets caught up in doing that and forgets to give Rhaenyra some dignity or respect as an individual character.

Yep. But I think that what went most wrong was that she only "came to herself" after Jace's death so she couldn't come up with either the Dragonseed plan AND/OR deliberate with Corlys on how to take back KL and contributing a critical element of that plan. GRRM could have fixed so much by doing either of these.

I recently ranted about this and you may have been the one to send the ask for it HERE. Essentially, George wasted his character (and no he didn't have to make her exactly like Dany to do so, I rant about it in that post) when he could have allowed Rhaenyra to more actively make strategies, be involved in logistics, or even flown on Syrax to war without actually having Rhaenyra wield a sword. How to make her unlike Rhaenys the Conqueror, who also didn't wield swords? Unlike the org trio, Rhaenyra has opposers, make them do stuff against her that she tries to come up stuff against but this happened and it wasn't her fault or because she didn't try. Make it so the recorders of history are more obviously trying to diminish her despite this thing she did and that things she did they were forced to record because it did something so impactful by scale or effect that they couldn't ignore it! Make it so that Rhaenrya does herself in, but she reasonably starts to suspect those around her bc either they were doing suspicious shit OR someone on the outside was making it seem that way!!! Improve the Iago-Othello potential storyline, make it more believable! Give her some journal entries, letters like you did for Daemon and Otto in Rogue Prince! Oh my god!!!

*[6/1/24]* I know that readers should be better read or read between the lines of anti-female ruler propaganda that Gyldayn and all maesters before him have been creating and that some even just miss the whole point of the Dance that GRRM does manage to convey [anti mobilized patriarchal violence against a woman trying to cliam power in her own right, not on the behalf of a male, and still being seen as a direct threat to male-privilege and authority]. BUT that doesn't stop the timeline of events from missing events where Rhaenyra could have done stuff to show more political acumen & resilience after years of sitting at council w/Viserys, ruling Dragonstone, and other pre-war incidents of her standing up for herself or vying for control against Alicent (the most prominent one being the dress moment, but also the matter of choosing the new Grand Maester after Viserys cuts himself).

As I said before [the linked post way above called "HERE"], it's like GRRM sacrificed this for the whole devastation of the war OR/AND contradicts himself and succumbs to the stereotype of irrational women vs sad, but capable men by not giving Rhaenyra more to do. Even as Gyldayn, Eustace, etc. already give stupid, hypocritical (say they praise a man for doing a thing, but castigate Rhaenyra for doing the same or perceived similar thing), misleading, and bad faith arguments. Like how Gyldayn presents his rationale for what he thinks is possible about Daemon and Nettles.

There were also medieval and early modern period female, woman histiographers, I just learned and really should have known, bc women were never just sitting idle! [moonlitgleek] That's a critique of the ASoIaF worldbuilding, really. How GRRM doesn't have even give a comparatively smaller number of socially unrecognized female historians to socially recognized male historians. Sarella Sand is the only known woman even interested in the scholarly career of a historian or maester that I can think of, besides Alysanne. A source that gives the woman/woman-related perspective a bit more voice in the pre-Dany Targ story that I think could have happened with Rhaenyra also writing letters, etc., like Otto or Daemon in F&B and Rogue Prince. *[6/1/24], END*

Rhaenyra doesn't have to be a Visenya/swordswoman to do war. Visenya wasn't just a swordswoman or face-to-face or on-the-ground physical fighter just as Aegon wasn't. She also did diplomacy well, even if with a much more direct threat of violence hanging in the air while she did so--the Aryyns. Unlike the org trio, Rhaenyra had children in/active in the war unlike Rhaenys and Visenya, too, so yes, she was going to have the fear of losing them or the grief of actually losing them--for GRRM's point about the devastation this war had on both sides so that the "worth" of the war is conveyed as not equal to personal loss, ironically calling back to how Rhaenys herself was lost in the Dornish conflicts and that mysterious letter that stopped Aegon from actually taking revenge.

But if you're going to say that Rhaenyra was wronged and that she should not be vilified for trying to get back what was stolen on account of her gender...do not make it so easy for the maesters to make it as if it were Rhaenyra's "unpreparedness" to debilitate her when she loses a child in said war fought for her and their rights in the first place!

[darklinaforever]

I don’t know what this person sending you their rants is on but - “there are no prominent debates about the validity of Rhaenyra's love for Harwin. There's no one jumping on posts about the Velaryon boys to say that Rhaenyra only had them because she couldn't have Daemon. “ And Rhae loving one ‘set’ of boys more over the other …

Saying this is never debated and it’s always JUST Laena stuff is so fake. I’ve seen many many debates over all of these, and more.

Did Daemon care about Laena, yes. Did he love her? Maybe. Would he have ever married her if he had been allowed to marry Rhaenyra? No.

All of that being true and stating it doesn’t make us racist. It would have been the same if Laena had been like the book. I’m sorry the show writers suck, and did her dirty but.. It is what it is.

This is from this reblog :

I simply wanted to say that yes, Laena is the victim of misogynistic writing (like all the women in the series) and of racism in addition, but that the fact that Daemon is not in love with her has nothing to do with that, because that most likely wasn't the case in Fire and Blood either. I expressed myself clumsily and too quickly, sure, but to assume that I'm saying that Daemon hated Laena when I never implied such a thing ? Like, just because I say Daemon wasn't in love with Laena, does that necessarily mean I'm saying he hates her ? WTF ? That does not make any sense.

Then, yes, I've already seen tons of posts exposing (with good reason) the fact that Rhaenyra probably wasn't in love with Harwin. It seems pretty obvious that if she could have had Daemon, she would never have been with Harwin. For what ? Because Harwin is an anedoc in the text for Rhaenyra apart from her boys. And also the fact that she suddenly stopped having children with him when Daemon was finally allowed to return from his exile to the court.

Just like I've already seen tons of Laena fans insult Rhaenyra's character as a whore. Literally, I've had some come to my inbox. Just like there are fans of Laena who write her in fanfiction as Daemon's true love and Rhaenyra the jealous whore who can't live up to him. But for all that, I'm not going to say that all Laena fans think that Rhaenyra is a whore (plus misogynistic and grossophobic comments).

There's even debate that the Velaryon boys should be disliked by Rhaenyra because they put her reputation and legitimacy at risk (even though in reality, no one cares except the asshole greens) !

Basically... well yes, as you say, everything this person cited has been debated about Rhaenyra.

Rhaenyra is also a character who has always been in trouble, even before the release of HOTD.

Not to say that Laena's case in HOTD is not serious, on the contrary, it is. But she's not the only victim of the fandom's mistreatment. I even think she's not the worst in the female character category from the entire GRRM universe by the fandom.

Either way, HOTD's general treatment of female characters is truly horrible and I fear that even if Baela and Rhaena finally get real scenes and dialogue in the future, they won't be treated any better than everyone else. Which particularly annoys me.

[atopvisenyashill]

What if Laena Velaryon survived?

I'm addicted to bullet pointing my answers so let's goooo-

There's a few spots that Laena living really impacts the plot and the Dance overall:

Laenor potentially lives - if Qarl was in fact paid to kill Laenor by one of the blacks, the reasoning for this no longer makes sense because daemon and rhaenyra can't marry if laena is still alive. if qarl was genuinely just pissed laenor may have been cheating on him, or it was someone else that paid qarl, well, he's fucked i guess. but odds seem better!

Vhagar is still on tb's side - not only does she have the biggest and oldest dragon not chomping on her kids, but by the time Viserys dies, Rhaenyra has all but one (1) of the mature dragons on her side. that's HUGE. even otto, imo, is not stupid enough to decide to up against caraxes, meleys, syrax, vhagar, AND potentially even seasmoke, not to mention arrax and vermax. against what? ONLY sunfyre and dreamfyre? are they sending helaena out into the riverlands??

Aemond is defanged - outside of otto himself, aemond is the most war mongering, bloodthirsty on that side. it's not just killing luke, it's the mini genocide in the riverlands, it's taking out caraxes & meleys, it's his fascination with some superman v batman bullshit he wants to have with daemon, on and on. If Vhagar can't be claimed by him, he is only as capable as the army he is leading, and there's no dragons to worry about roaming Westeros except Tessarion, and Daeron can't really cover the Riverlands when he's so occupied in the Reach. Even if the war gets set off at the exact same time, getting rid of Vhagar/Aemond eliminates an entire front of the war.

Butterfly Effecting Away Aegon and Vis the Youngers - Daemon can't set Laena aside (they have clearly consummated), and they risk a complete rebellion by the faith if they do some bigamy stuff, and even if Daemon is stupid enough to pull that, Corlys and Rhaenys will kick his fucking ASS if he is married to Rhaenyra and Laena at the same time. Never mind someone paying Qarl to kill Laenor, Rhaenys won't even bother lighting Daemon on fire, she's just going to throttle him with her bare hands. This means that either Rhaenyra remarries who she wants as a political match (not a bad decision to make) or she simply remains unmarried (also, imo, not a bad decision to make since she's doubling down on the Velaryon boys being legitimate). In which case - if she has Daemon's kids, they will be publicly acclaimed as bastards OR they will be Laenor's legally, the same as Jace, Luke, and Joff.

There are some things I think might still happen - I think there's a chance Aemond makes a play for Vermithor if he can't have Vhagar, maybe Silverwing, but that's so much riskier because he'd have to travel alone as a child/teenager to Dragonstone, which is the seat of a political enemy, find where Vermithor has made his nest, get there safely, and then claim him without losing a limb. There's a lot of ifs there, vs Vhagar who was already hanging out nearby because of the funeral and very recently losing Laena. Laenor living is best case scenario for Rhaenyra because she keeps that cover for her sons - it's really hard to Vaemond, Alicent, or Otto to press on the Velaryon boys being illegitimate if Laenor is standing right there swearing they are his and fighting for their rights! But even if Laenor dies, Laena is not just going away - she's Rhaenys' last living child, she's Rhaenyra's girlfriend dear friend, she's the rider of Vhagar. Daemon cannot - and would not, in my opinion - just cast her aside the way he tries with Rhea Royce (and notable that his attempt to cast Rhea aside failed). Rhaenyra being single or politically married off would help her a lot just from a propaganda standpoint but she likely has more allies/has alienated less allies by the time Viserys dies.

Now, I think it's likely there's still a small war - Otto is in the capital and Rhaenyra is on dragonstone, so Otto will still attempt to take the capital but once she retakes it? With a war that is much less bloody, with her oldest sons likely still alive, without the loss of baby Visenya, she's not only mentally in a much better place, but politically as well. Hell, if she stays unmarried until she takes the throne, then dangles being Prince Consort in front of some lord's face, promising him that their children will marry Jace and Baela's child to sit the Iron Throne? Does Rhaenys even lose at Rook's Rest if she's only going up against Sunfyre, or going up against Sunfyre and Vermithor? I think in that case, Rhaenys & Meleys' experience and maturity trumps Aegon and Aemond's anger.

Anyways, I think Rhaenyra is just objectively better off with Laena around. Laena has a bit of reputation in fandom of being kind of useless narratively but the truth is, she has to die in order for Rhaenyra to lose so soundly. Laena is integral to Rhaenyra keeping her shit together because they are so close and because of Vhagar. If Rhaenyra keeps Laena as an ally, the war looks much different. Probably there's still a war, but I think it stays "a war of words and wings" for longer, and remains more or less bloodless. More similar to the third blackfyre rebellion, where the fighting isn't particularly bad and mostly localized, than the mess it winds up being.

[emilykaldwen]

I'm seeing this discourse re: people going on hiatus/leaving their blogs and I'm just like yo that's not the actual problem

At the end of the day, fandom is never owned by a select group of people, or a specific trend (flashbacks to Cassandra Claire holding court at the harry potter cons back in the day and on LJ specifically). Tumblr, for what it is worth, is not the center of the fandom universe. And it can be very, very lonely when you don't write the 'popular thing' in your fandom sphere, or are on the popular team. I know my team black friends feel pretty damn lonely here a lot of times.

There's fear. There's jealousy. People are, of course, human and these are all normal and valid emotions. What's not okay is going into people's inboxes on anon and getting weird about it, or hate reading people's fic and making a joke/game out of it. Just stick in your lane. You don't have to be friends with everyone - it is, in fact, impossible to have an actual friendship with 100 people, let alone 20 people. But also we are a community, and we all need to do our part. You don't have to reblog everything. You aren't a hub for that content.

But reblogging what you do like? That should be a no brainer. Likes are nice, but on tumblr, they don't do anything. Just reblog the stuff you like. Also try give things a chance. Reblog things you think someone else might like. For example, I don't really care about Daemon, but my bestie does, so when I see things I think she'll like, I do try to reblog them! (like the Daemon and Laena cut scene that just released).

Our blogs aren't just for us, they are also about the people we care about too. At least, that's the tumblr world I grew up in, where people reblog things and tag our friends in it going 'HEY! relevant to your interests!'

Think of tumblr as going through the biggest thrift store you've ever seen and you find this... IDK cat statue with bat wings and you don't care about it but you yell to your friend in the next aisle about it so they can see it. You hold it up like simba to show!

Also, what the fuck, don't bug people about not reblogging your stuff or walking into their DMs to ask them to reblog things that's weird don't do that.

tl;dr, it's not even about reblogging everything, it's actually about just... reblogging stuff you like and this whole thing, imo, isn't about burn out, it's about the weird gatekeeping stuff I see happening to people. Pockets of people in fandom have made it an overall unwelcoming place and make people feel like they need to become content farms/write only specific things instead of extending their creative legs to write what they are truly excited about.

[backjustforberena]

Ok, so this question has been hurting my head for a while and I had to ask this because I love your analysis of Rhaenys's character.

How do you think Rhaenys's relationship maintained with these people over the years?

Daemon, Viserys, Aemma, her mother Jocelyn, Jaehaerys, Alysanne, Laena, and Laenor.

I'm so sorry if it is too much to ask!

Hello! Okay, so I'm going to keep this brief because that's quite a lot of people and so I'm just going to go with general vibes and first thoughts, and stick with later-in-life stuff rather than childhood, and if you want me to go into more specifics or have any questions, then absolutely follow up. It's based mostly on the show but for some characters, I have used book facts and events.

DAEMON: I think the big thing that I have, as a personal headcanon (or just the way I look at the relationship) with Daemon is that Rhaenys has to make an active choice, probably fairly early on, that she cannot love him. She can't let herself. Eve has spoken before about how Rhaenys keeps Daemon at arms' length and how she has a profound distrust of him and sees him as just this chaotic element, so I think that she makes a decision that there have to be boundaries in place. Just for her own sense of safety and stability. Daemon orbits her family: they're blood but also he goes to war with her husband and son, he marries her daughter, he's the father of her granddaughters. But I think Rhaenys is just far too aware that he hurts. He causes immeasurable pain and, in the end, there's an understanding of him - he will never spite himself to help her: he keeps her daughter from her, he "murders" her son, he has respect for her but little regard.

I think the relationship ebbs and flows from enjoying his company, tolerating him and then wanting nothing to do with him. It alters throughout the years but she will never be caught out by him. I don't think she really likes him. Perhaps for the boy he was, she does - they are definitely still familial. What Daemon gives, he gets in return, I think.

VISERYS: There's love there. It's one of the relationships that I find the most tragic because they're cousins torn apart by the choices of others and the positions they find themselves in. They can never be as close as they want to be. I think Rhaenys's first loyalty is to the home and house she's built with her husband, which directly conflicts with Viserys, on occasion. I think they probably did go three years without speaking to one another (possibly missives to congratulate on births etc but nothing of note) because of the Stepstones War.

I think it does become "us vs them" with Rhaenys on the outside because his family keeps being responsible for the destruction of hers. And then we get to this place where he's having this happy family meal and she's in a crypt. When you think about how close their fathers were and how close they might have been or wanted to be, once upon a time, then that's tragedy.

AEMMA: Poor Aemma. We don't see them ever interact in the show, but it's easy enough to imagine that they were friends from childhood and family in that way. I think they grew apart, in adulthood, given the way their lives went. But we have deleted dialogue where Rhaenyra recounts coming to Driftmark with Aemma and collecting seashells with Laena. I like to imagine that wasn't too infrequent. I think they probably kept in touch via letters: neither woman had many female relations to speak to.

JOCELYN: My opinion is that Jocelyn lives at High Tide after Aemon's death, until her own. So, maintaining that relationship is pretty easy as they live in the same place. We don't know when Jocelyn dies or how. But I sort of take my opinion that Rhaenys isn't too dissimilar to her parents and that Jocelyn and Rhaenys probably relied heavily on one another. I think she would have been a very present and active grandmother: she had no other duties, nowhere else to be, nothing else to do.

JAEHAERYS: My feeling is, a bit like with Daemon and, to a lesser extent, Viserys, that when it becomes an "us vs them" she cuts the feeling off as much as possible. When Jaehaerys chooses someone else as his heir, when she is discarded, she has to stop treating him in the same way she once did. She has to choose herself, she has to be something different. I think, in the latter years, she'd only go to court if summoned. She'd only act the part in public.

I think she probably understands and sympathisers with her grandfather and the choices he made (to a point) but she doesn't agree, she doesn't find comfort in that, it hurts and she's aware that there is a danger now, to her, because of the choices he makes. I don't know if I'd say she hates him. I think, certainly by the time we get to HOTD, the feelings have been processed somewhat and Rhaenys is someone who doesn't waste time on things that won't accomplish anything.

I think it's also, likely, easier to do so because I don't think she sees him as family from her father's death onwards. The most prevalent thing he is to her is her King. And once Alysanne retires from King's Landing, she has no reason to return until Jaehaerys is on his deathbed. I imagine she'd visit him on his deathbed.

ALYSANNE: She loved Alysanne. So, I'm thinking letters, visits, dragon flights. I think Rhaenys visits her whenever she's on Dragonstone and then writes when she's in King's Landing. I think Alysanne would visit Driftmark, if allowed or it was okay PR-wise. I think that Rhaenys could have become a primary visitor or carer for Alysanne when her body and wits began failing. Alysanne never forsook her, or her children. Alysanne would understand things so many wouldn't: marriage, children, dragons, being a Targaryen. And it's reciprocated.

LAENA: Letters. So many letters. I think mother and daughter were very close. It kills me to know that Rhaenys knew of Laena's desire to not just come back home, but to remain there. To stay and be close to her family, rather than be across the Narrow Sea. For Rhaenys to know this, and to know it was Daemon who was causing the problem, tells me that Laena told her and therefore feels confident in her mother as a confidante. It's also worth keeping in mind that, for at least three years, it was just Rhaenys and Laena together - whilst Corlys and Laenor were in the Stepstones. And then it was Laena almost as an only child again until she was married.

We know how Rhaenys reacted to her death, to her funeral, to her daughters, to her legacy. Moreover, we know that Laena has been raised by her mother with her eyes wide open - it's Rhaenys who informs a 12-year-old Laena that she will not have to bed Viserys until she is 14, it's Rhaenys who overlooks the walk with Viserys and (at least I presume) picks her up at the end of it. I think Rhaenys just loved the bones off of that girl and was so proud of the woman she became.

LAENOR: Similarly, once he's married, I think it's letters. However, I don't believe they are as candid as Laena's. I think Laenor probably retreats into formality - we know that he doesn't even divulge incriminating details in letters to Laena, his sister whom he adored. There are so many things he'd just not want to discuss with his mother: things she'd worry about. I think Rhaenys visits court when she can and when she's invited. Whether that's often, I couldn't say. She does seem to be in tune with the cost the arrangement of his marriage takes on Laenor, however, when she mentions it to Corlys in Episode 07.

I don't think the distance has quite taken root but I think she fears something drastic will happen to the relationship. She sees her son's misery and she fears losing him from an emotional perspective. She fears a precipice or an implosion: a breaking point. I think she wants change, in Episode 07. Maybe she hopes that something can be done and it seems to be on her to do it, whatever it is. Maybe she'd also hope that the move to Dragonstone would help - Dragonstone is closer to Driftmark.

Of course, she does end up losing him in a way she couldn't imagine. And whatever hopes she could have had die with her.

[fanfictionroxs]

TEAM DRAGON

Disclaimer - I love this fictional sweet home alabama show and if you try to fight with me over a FICTIONAL show, I'll block you.

Team Green this, Team Black that. Bitch I'm Team Dragon and freeing them from this messed up targ family. Let the dragons fucking grow up in their own families and not have their eggs with their babies inside stolen by humans with delusions of grandeur. They're not your stupid vehicles or war weapons. THEY'RE BIRDS WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY IN CHAINS AND BEING FORCED TO FIGHT THEIR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN HUMAN WARS?! WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY BEING BRAINWASHED SINCE INFANCY TO OBEY THE WEIRD ASS 'COMMANDS' OF YOUR STUPID HUMAN KIDS?!

This is why I like Dany more than your average targ (my strong babies Jace, Luke and Joff being my exceptions) because at least she treats her dragons like her children though she also uses them as weapons and Im super pissed at her locking up Viserion and Rhaegal.. but she's the least slaver like when it comes to her dragons among all the targs and I hope she sets a precedence for future generations because the treatment of dragons in HOTD is unbearable for me to watch even though I love that show.

SPOILERS for future seasons of HOTD!

I mean Caraxes and Vhaegar are flying together in one scene and they must have lived together for years when Laena and Daemon were married, but we know they will kill each other in the end. How many of these dragons are family and still being made to kill one another because they are dragged into foolish human stuff? The last fight of Tessarion and Seasmoke is said to have been more of a mating dance. It's said that Syrax grew to love her chains. Tyraxes strangled himself with his own chains!

WHY are they kept in chains if they share such a great bond with the targs? Because they don't! The dragons 'love' their humans because they are conditioned from literal infancy to gain freedom only when said human is around. They're pushed in chains and made to care for the chain holders. Very similar to how animals like horses, elephants etc are treated in real life. We know they have free will just like all animals do. We see it with Arrax and Vhagar. But it is trampled under the will of humans who misuse their intellectual power to control them and use these majestic beings to gain power in their sick world.

Anyway, I guess this makes me the westerosi version of an animal rights activist.. I'm building a dragon shelter in Harrenhall since that's the biggest freaking castle around and taking all those dragon babies away. I literally have a hc where Harwin, Jace, Luke and Joff survive the harrenhall curse where Harwin converts the great hall (first scene in ep1 of hotd) into a base for Syrax, Vermax, Arrax and Tyraxes with an open ceiling so that the dragons can come and go as they wish while his kids and princess come to stay with him in his beloved haunted house. Anyway, in the shelter, we will feed them a rich human diet of pedos and daughter sellers (cause I aint killing any animals) when they're not hunting by themselves. Otto will be the first on the menu hehe

[vampire-exgirlfriend]

Please tell me your five favorite things about Daemon Targaryen. Hi yes I adore you!

Hello you! Thank you for stoking my love for this unhinged man 😂

1. I love how unpredictable he is. So many people want to write him off as overly impulsive or stupid because of this, but he's not. He's literally a tactician of war. He thinks about things. He just doesn't come to the same conclusion most of his peers do. He's incredibly ambitious, impetuous, and passionate and I think that rubs this fandom the wrong way a lot of the time because of how jarring and in your face it is (also the resurgence of purity culture within fandom/the youths, but that's another post).

2. He doesn't try to be something he isn't. He wasn't able to rely on his family during the years when he would have been figuring out who he is, so he had to do that on his own and he makes no excuses for who he became. He is not a good man, he is not an evil man. He just is who he is and his morals are very much tied into the warped experiences he's had.

3. I am a big ol' slut for a Byronic Hero, which historian Lord Macaulay described as "a man proud, moody, cynical, with defiance on his brow, and misery in his heart, a scorner of his kind, implacable in revenge, yet capable of deep and strong affection." That's it, that's Daemon. And I love it.

4. He's incredibly complex, he's human. I think people get "morals" and "ethics" confused when talking about a lot of characters within this universe. Daemon's not fucking Palpatine or some such, but his ethics are 100% questionable. He loved his brother as much as he resented him, and raised an army to shore up his claim before the Great Council. His duel for Laena's hand and their subsequent marriage was the stuff of romance novels, and he treated her and their children well. His gold cloaks were loyal because he treated them with disciplined respect and taught them to be soldiers (and yes, ignored their crimes). These things speak to his values (family [his, not Alicent's], responsibility, the power of house Targaryen, etc), which he doesn't really stray from throughout his journey. He also had no fear of decimating armies/his enemies, was having extramarital affairs (depending on how you view his relationship with Nettles. Book Misaria is murkier, since Rhaenyra permitted it, but still), talking shit about dead kids or taking out his wife's rival's children (depending on your take on Blood and Cheese. I subscribe to the school of thought that B&C were there originally for Aemond or Aegon). These things speak to his ethics (a code from an outside source - like ethics in the work place, for example), and he is absolutely ethically flawed (much like Jaime Lannister; he tried to murder a child and is never outright viewed as a villain - because he isn't. Same with Drogo and Stannis).

5. What's that text post that's going around say? "My love language is acts of service and all I know is violence." Nothing can endear me to a character more quickly.

[selfproclaimedunicorn]

which of the characters in sotf father have you struggled the most with writing? which one has been the most rewarding? do you have a favorite storyline?

In terms of POV characters, I've struggled a wee bit with Aemon just because I haven't had much opportunity to characterize him in text yet. Like, I have a good handle on him I think, but I have only written from his POV a couple times at this point. Outside of the POVs/just on the periphery, I wanna say Harwin Strong. He hasn't shown up a lot (I wanna say he's only had a conversation with anyone in 2 chapters), but there's just so little of him in the show that it's kind of hard to extrapolate. So the 2 chapters I have had him have conversations with my girl Ella, it's even very "bro, what would you say?"

In terms of "most rewarding" to write, it's weird but I'm gonna say your man/Daemon. SOTF has has the unfortunate side effect of me coming to an understanding with that white haired weirdo & I appreciate him in my own way. I'm not going to join you in the Daemon Targaryen Lover Brigade, but I get him. Very "babygirl, no one understands you like me (derogatory)." And, y'know, obviously I love writing my OCs & I feel good about it every time. Ella & Yorick & Aemon are my little guys & I get so many feelings & some good processing for some stuff when I delve into certain aspects of their POVs & stories (bestowing upon them the highest honor I can: my own trauma), but that's all expected. I did not expect the "this man killed his wife & kis kids from her get revenge" fic to have the effect of "you now rotate him around in your brain & enjoy thinking about his justifications for acting like a cunt within your story." So that's fun in its own weird little way & I'm not mad, just surprised.

I have a few favorite storylines, I think. Idk, it feels weird thinking about the plot points as storylines, I'm very much not organized in that particular way 😅. Here's what I can try to articlate:

Currently ongoing, & I am enjoying the "Rhaella Royce/Laena Velaryon friendship" storyline. We're in the throes of "second act conflict" right now, but when the girls eventually make up from their argument, it's gonna lend itself into Ella getting her closure with Daemon (much sooner than her brothers). And also, I just think stories about strong friendships are good & neat, & I'm excited for where I've been & where I'm going with it.

It's only kind of started right now, but I very much love Aemon’s "fostering at White Harbor storyline." He makes friends & recovers (as much as one can) from the trauma of watching his mom's murder. Also, I've been calling it his "bisexual boy winter," so make of that what you will lmao

[bbygirl-aemond]

Reading the first Baela pov, and wow, she gives off such a transmasc vibe! I'm not telling you to make her trans, just saying that I relate a lot, especially to how I was before I found out I'm a guy. Like, her hesitating when Rhaenys said "You are a woman so these are women's clothes", quickly saying she's her father's daughter too when called her mother's daughter (reminds me of 'if i can't be a {correct gender}, at least I can say I'm like {correct gender parent}', redirecting the conversation to her sister when told she looks like her mother, choosing to be her true self instead of what everyone expects her to be even though it's technically 'better' (queen vs lady)... Just, reading that was like my teenage self looking into the mirror. Thank you for writing such good characters!

(i've been meaning to answer this for a HOT minute so sorry bout that, but the dialogue between laena and daemon in chapter 27 reminded me of it so better late than never?)

stuff like this always makes me so happy to hear! you also have excellent taste, bc my bf (trans masc) is also quite fond of stormbreak!baela.

it's been a pretty deliberate choice to write baela as disconnected from or rejecting traditional westerosi notions of femininity and womanhood. stormbreak will mostly leave any further interpretation up to the reader as to her personal sense of gender identity. of course you can identify as a woman while experiencing all of these things, or you can identify as a man, or something entirely different.

the remaining part of this ask probably counts as stormbreak spoilers, but it won't be for anything that's a major plot point within the timespan contained in the original fic- just stuff i might write in drabbles eventually. but it's stuff related to gender and baela in particular. :)

in my mind, baela never really settles down with a man. oh, she might marry one, but i don't know that she'll end up super duper in love the way most of the other women in this fic do. she'll have a ton of very fulfilling relationships, some of them involving sex, and she'll travel the world and live her life completely unhindered by her status within society as a woman. seafarer and traveler baela ftw, y'all!

she will also never have children. i wasn't super happy with her character ending up basically pregnant and left behind at home while her husband traveled the world and also cheated on her. i don't see baela, even book baela, as someone who'd have those goals. i can see how losing almost her entire family might make her lonely, and how realizing she's one of only like 4 surviving targaryens might create pressure to reproduce regardless of her own desires. but in stormbreak, where her family survives and there are gonna be so many little targ babies running around you can't tell whose is whose? yeah she is never ever going through pregnancy are you kidding me lmao.

i've also received a few requests for some spicy drabbles involving baela (once she is MUCH older i do not write porn for any characters who are under 21 aka younger than me okay). these will probably also involve a certain degree ambiguity as to baela's internal sense of gender identity. baela will never desire or ask for penetration, and will instead prefer to penetrate others or participate in other types of sexual acts. anatomical terms will be used for body parts, but when baela is wearing a strap on it'll be referred to using the same terms i refer to male characters' sex organs with (i.e. a character wouldn't be described as sucking baela's strap, they'd be described as sucking baela's cock).

anyways the ambiguity is there for a reason and readers are free to interpret it in whichever ways make them happiest. my viewpoint on these things is kind of like mark hamill's with the character of luke skywalker: whatever you want baela to be, wherever you feel the text is leading you, that's how baela identifies. :)

[princesssszzzz]

Question. Did you actually read the books? Or is most of your idea of Rhaena (she's fantastic), Aemond and Daeron who are more like that father of hers you hate than you seem to want to admit, based on fanon?

I never speak about Daemon outside of the occasional Nettles post or how he’s a bad father I’m assuming your talking about the latter. I don’t hate any characters but not gonna pretend Daemon is a good dad. Half the people following me are Daemon stans. They either agree or don’t care what I say about him bc he’s not a real person 😂I’m not on any team so I’m not going to hate or support a character based on which side they are.

Daemon is not Mufasa in the books either he was never winning fatherhood awards. Even Otto Hightower kissed his daughter on the head. But I don’t jump in and out of the book when it comes to Daemon. My opinion on him is strictly HOTD which is why I only tag post with him HOTD. Daemon is not Ned Stark in book or show. It’s his fans only making “the father that stepped up” memes. There’s no casual viewer that would ever call him an amazing father because he’s not. What do you lose by admitting Daemon is not a good dad to his daughters? You can’t claim to love Rhaena and Baela and say it’s ok for them to be treated like trash and neglected. You love extensions of Daemon (not even Laena) to conjure up a family image but you don’t like them. They don’t exist to make him look like a good person they are young girls not PR agents. But you don’t have to pretend to like them just stop telling me he’s a good dad. If Otto or Viserys treated Alicent or Rhaenyra like this we would never hear the end of it. You could at least chalk it up to bad writing but saying he's a good dad is just a lie. You’ve never seen me defend anything Aemond and Daeron ever did so...I’m assuming your talking about my fanfics? I never speak about Daeron’s book actions and I don’t talk about Aemond outside of his parallels to Rhaena or the occasional silly shipping post. I’m just writing random stuff + delving into Rhaena’s feelings about how she’s treated. I actually wouldn’t be writing any of it if the show did that so don’t be annoyed with me be annoyed with Ryan. Mr. Condal who also claims Daemon’s family is his “brother and niece.” The guy who wrote him not even considering his kids as his family so how do you get perfect dad from that. What I post about or write for Rhaena (besides obvious AUs where she’s out of character) comes from what I’ve seen in the show mixed in a little with her book personality. 100% show Rhaena includes Daemon ignoring her so if my writing her response to being ignored confuses or bothers you, it’s probably because you pretend he’s not ignoring her. It’s actually impossible to speak about Rhaena without talking about Daemon’s neglect because she’s lived with him her entire life. She’s always next to him. I’m not making anything up I’m just going based from the show. Like I said I’m not on either team so I have no partisan views on anyone. I don’t have underlying reasons to saying Daemon is not a good father it’s just the truth lol I’m not a Daemon hater. Aemond is also a piece of shit if you go through my post I have more content critiquing him than Daemon if anything. Maybe you assumed I’m an Aemond simp extremist bc I ship Rhaemond but I’m not I just like that they have a lot in common and I think their personalities are interesting together😂 If Daemon smacked the shit out of Aemond for what he did to Rhaena and Baela I would have been perfectly happy. I don’t care if Daeron and Aemond behaved just like Daemon they aren’t her dad so *shrug* Again I wouldn’t even have this blog or be talking about this if people weren’t lying and trying to portray her as satisfied to be treated like shit. Anyways to answer your question my idea of Rhaena is realistic Rhaena. Not lost on me that people love the idea of ‘sit down, shut up, pour wine, support us, smile and nod at these people’ Rhaena......you don’t really like Rhaena. If my dream Rhaena comes to fruition in season 2 you will hate her and will be posting rants about her. I’ve already seen some Daemon fans insulting her for the Hightower husband and “making him look like a bad person”

[sweetestpopcorn]

Lol just saw this Daemon/Laena shipper claim that if Baelon was alive he'd have Daemon marry Laena, in order to merge the bloodlines to compensate for the rift created between the Targaryens and the Velaryons. I can't like- what even is this??

I mean... they can have that headcanon, honestly stuff like that doesn't bother me at all. Ship and let ship. I don't like the pairing but I respect that other people do. Do I agree with that opinion? No, but plenty of people will also disagree with my takes if they dislike Daemyra.

My issue with Daemon/Laena stans is when they make sh:t up about canon to fit their narrative. Just recently @lady-corrine saw an idiot claim that Daemon and Laena wanted to name their son Aegon, and they claimed this was from the books. When the person was called out they conveniently changed their source to "early draft of George" that they were unable to provide evidence for.

Even if that were true - which, let me make it VERY clear, it's not - love child, Daemon didn't exist in George's early drafts. Before 2013 we have no evidence of his existence what-so-ever. Hells, Laenor didn't exist until much recently either! In George's early drafts, Rhaenyra was first married to a Lannister and she had no children with him, and then she was married to *drum roll* Lord Lyonel Strong, the King's Hand, and she had three children by him. This was in 2011 if anyone is wondering by the way, and yes I have the receipts and you can check this at the wiki. Early drafts don't matter because they are not the story. George has updated the Targaryen history and made profound changes to the story several times prior to the publication of Fire and Blood.

So, this is what actually bothers me, people lying and making up cr_p. There's also a special category of people that not only make things up but pull between book and show for whatever fits their narrative. I've recently had one of the biggest facepalms ever of my life when someone claimed that in the books it was mentioned that Daemon only loved Viserys - books say the opposite, this sh:t was pulled fresh, hot, and tender out of R*an and co's ass_s - and Nettles and Laena - again their entire claim to Laena is what the singers said and to Nettles it was HIGHLY debatable and we don't actually know what she was to Daemon.

And then of course, there's also the gargantuan amount of Laena/Daemon shippers who can't f_cking keep Daemyra from their mouths.

Like dude, just don't mention them! But no, most just have to go on and on about how Rhaenyra was a disgusting pig of a woman, how Daemon hated her, like hell! I have heard them say things like Rhaenyra forced Daemon to marry her! Like this is the level - or lack-there-of.

But, to those Laena/Daemon shippers who are just enjoying their ship, let them, nothing against and all the power to them for hyping their ship and having fun, and I think what you are mentioning is just that.

I personally don't agree, but I don't have to 🤷🏽‍♀️

[horizon-verizon]

I’m already tensed up re: the Vale and House Royce, and how they’ll likely have Daemon’s murder of Rhea undercutting Jeyne Arryn’s declaration of support for Rhaenyra as a fellow ruling woman. 100% bet it’ll be another Rhaenys and Driftmark issue.

In F&B, Jeyne’s like “Daemon’s a dick, and lowkey judging Rhaenyra on that, but that doesn’t change the fact women gotta stick together”- but they changed it from Daemon disliking his wife and leaving her alone (which I have no doubt is exactly what Rhea wanted) to straight up murdering her. So we should all be ready for the counter argument of “what about sticking with Rhea Royce who Daemon violently murdered” which I’m sure is the writers intent.

HOTD will try to diminish/erase Rhaenyra’s extensive and massive support throughout the realm in general because she’s a woman. And since Daemon murdered Rhea, I can totally see them using her cousin Gerold Royce to lessen Rhaenyra’s support and popularity in-world.

I anticipate that House Royce (hell, maybe Jeyne Arryn herself) will be at the very least resistant to supporting Rhaenyra, if not straight up Green in the show, and that Rhaena will be part of that plotline. And Jeyne will probably berate Rhaena for her father’s actions.

Yep, yep, yep! I just can't put my heart into this show for this alone. It's a continuation of what pessimisticpigeon said about the isolation from Rhaenyra's individual female supporters (Rhaenys, her ladies-in-waiting, Laena). I get too angry, and there's already other stuff I should be reserving the anger for. Since at least epi 6 of the 1st season. You could also refer to how they wrote her to feel that Daemon cost her masses of could-be supporters through Blood and Cheese. Not that she shouldn't at least feel anxious, but I never really thought it was enough for Rhaenyra to question Daemon's loyalty & interests in making sure she is the next monarch and actually practice as a leader.

So, if what you say happens, oh well. Brace yourself for more "F&B is unreliable" excuses.

[bohemian-nights]

Matt and Emma have great chemistry….with everyone but each other. There were a few sweet scenes, but overall if I had to rate their chemistry it would get a 2/10. Matt has more chemistry with Sonoya (Mysaria), Nanna (Laena) and even Paddy (Viserys) than he does with Emma. That being said Emma also has more chemistry with Ryan (Harwin), John (Laenor) and even Olivia (Alicent) than they do with Matt. Their sex scene was so….disappointing. I don’t even ship Daemyra (I frankly find their relationship quite disturbing in every single aspect) but you would think since they’ve chosen to make Daemyra a focal point they'd give them at least one good sex scene 🤷🏽‍♀️

Anyway….can't wait for Netty 🫠

Hope her actress and Matt have chemistry. Hope they do her and Daemon’s relationship justice. Hope they do her justice. And I really hope we get that scene where Caraxes shatters every window in Jonquil's Tower.

Yep. Honestly, them having non-existent chemistry is further confirmation to me that the focus was on other relationships instead of Dumbnyra.

To be honest, if they had skipped the first half of the show(and people weren’t so hung up on the creepy chemistry between Matt and Milly that they are for some reason mistaking as romantic chemistry) no one would ship this ship. It is one of the blandest creepiest on-screen “romances” I’ve seen (and for Christ's sake I’m a person who likes 365 Days🤦🏽‍♀️). It’s just not giving epic romance like some are claiming 😙

Lol as far as that sex scene goes I’ll just say I’m not disappointed 😏 The stans of that ship got what they deserved in my humble opinion.

Anywho, yes I can’t wait for Netty 🙌🏽 Seeing the chemistry between the two(if they have any scenes in s2🤷🏽‍♀️) will give us somewhat of an idea of how they will handle things

If they have fire chemistry then it will be harder for them to try to claim the stuff they are claiming now and it will look worse on the show if they try to deny Daemon and Nettles a proper arc.

That scene in the books is everything so they got to do justice by it 🙌🏽