#(``) sansa . [v] winter has come

[sigilsongs-a]

𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐒𝐄 ... 𝐇𝐎𝐔𝐒𝐄 𝐎𝐅 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐃𝐑𝐀𝐆𝐎𝐍 + verse tags

𝐒𝐚𝐧𝐬𝐚 𝐇𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐛𝐨𝐫𝐧, 𝐒𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝𝐚𝐫𝐲 𝐀𝐮, 𝐈.

She is a handmaiden to, and milk-sister of, Lord Cregan Stark's first wife, Lady Arra Norrey. Commonborn, her name came from the horrendous weather on the day and night her mother laboured to deliver her. The hailstones that fell throughout that storm had been so large that holes were torn through roofs, people and animals were knocked to the ground or injured, even killed, when struck by the ice. Sansa travelled with Lady Arra to Winterfell, as a member of her household, when she relocated to wed Lord Cregan in 126AC. Sansa was, by then a dear and trusted friend (and rumoured lover) of the new lady of Winterfell. Sansa was inconsolably heartbroken when Arra died in the childbed, but remained at Winterfell... some believed (somewhat correctly) that Sansa elected to stay to remain close to the tomb of Lady Arra.     This AU Verse is set in House of The Dragon.

[agentrouka-blog]

Accidentally stumbled into a Sansa anti (well they call themselves an Arya stan but they apparently think those things go hand in hand)blog and am now baffled and a little disgusted at the amount of vitriol these people have for..a little girl, honestly they had reblogged a post about how Arya being believed to be a hostage to Ramsay galvanised so many people in the North, etc and the difference between that and Sansa being the Lannisters hostage/Tyrions bride, and like..so this little girls life being worthless to these men (whether that's true or not) is somehow validation for you? Honestly it's a little disturbing (there's also a pattern of most of them hating Alicent as well which seems..meaningful)

Ah, yes, the fantasy that they have that the North uniquely loves Arya and somehow instinctively rejects Sansa, and that this would be a good thing rather than screaming misogyny. 😊

There's exactly one group in the North agitating for Ned Stark's daughter herself (the one within reach of them, mind) and that's the mountain clans, for two reason:

Distant family loyalty, alongside Stark loyalty. (A Liddle also aids Bran in the mountains.)

A culture that encourages them to seek death, not survival, at this particular time where Stannis comes knocking.

His father's mother's mother had been a Flint of the mountains. Old Nan once said that it was her blood in him that made Bran such a fool for climbing before his fall.  (ASOS, Bran ll)

It was a tale that any northmen knew well. "My father's grandmother was a Flint of the mountains, on his mother's side," Jon told her. "The First Flints, they call themselves. They say the other Flints are the blood of younger sons, who had to leave the mountains to find food and land and wives. It has always been a harsh life up there. When the snows fall and food grows scarce, their young must travel to the winter town or take service at one castle or the other. The old men gather up what strength remains in them and announce that they are going hunting. Some are found come spring. More are never seen again." (ADWD, Jon X)

"Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned's little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue." (ADWD, The King's Prize)

Let's not overtly romanticize the North. Manderly's money is on Rickon the son. There's a sizable faction actually supporting the Boltons (Dustin/Ryswell and Karstark). No one lifts a single finger for "Arya" until Jon gives Stannis the advice to gather support in the mountains with his army, and those are the ones with comparatively little to do but die and "bathe in Bolton blood".

The main aspect here is opportunity v. cost.

But more to the point, just as you point out, if it was Sansa that Jeyne was pretending to be, it would be the same. It's not the girls (within their actual reach) they specifically care for, it's Ned and House Stark.

The specific (small) subset of Sansa Anti/Arya stan that pushes these takes is, indeed, less interested in Arya, the actual books and the political dynamics therein, than they are in a distorted Cinderella fantasy where Arya is uniquely chosen and loved over Sansa. The rejection of Sansa is as central to that fantasy as the elevation of Arya, because the Mean Girl needs to be vanquished and punished in order to destroy the very notion in the world that Their Projection Surface was ever not The Prettiest And Bestest, deprived of the admiration she rightfully deserved by the cruel machinations of a middleschool bully.

You know, that's the complex philosophical, political and literary themes and interpersonal dynamics that GRRM is known for. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[selkiewife]

Tyrion's Seasons of Love

I’ve been wondering if Tyrion’s arc in the novels can be seen as following the progression of the song that Tysha used to sing to him, The Seasons of My Love.

I loved a maid as fair as summer with sunlight in her hair I loved a maid as red as autumn with sunset in her hair I loved a maid as white as winter with moonglow in her hair

The song begins in the summer and summer is also where we first meet Tyrion. In the summer section of the novels, Tyrion is facing the outcome of his spring dreams being crushed- his past naïveté and hopefulness is examined under the harsh light of day. Because of Tywin's brutal abuse, Tyrion believes that the only way he can have love or friendship is through purchasing it with gold, as he does with Shae and Bronn. He also no longer dreams of dragons, as he tells Jon on the way to the wall. Yet it is still summer, and he is still somewhat optimistic in spite of himself. There is warmth in his relationship with Bronn and he falls in love with Shae in spite of himself. He also believes he is coming into his own as Hand of the King, using his unique talents to accomplish great things for his family.

Then the sun sets dramatically and Tyrion finds himself in a dark place. He is abandoned after the battle of the Blackwater and all his contributions to save the city are forgotten or attributed to others. He loses his nose and his position as Hand of the King. He survives an assassination attempt by Cersei, is forced to marry Sansa Stark, and finally is put on trial for a murder he did not commit. During the trial, Shae betrays and humiliates him (though she didn't really have a choice) and his father was ready to either execute him or exile him to the wall. Though his brother Jaime helps him escape, he also reveals the truth about Tysha.

After all he has recently been through coupled with a lifetime of abuse and trauma and Jaime's revelation, Tyrion murders both Tywin and Shae. Later, after escaping, he buys a sexual slave in Volantis called the Sunset Girl. She is called the Sunset Girl because she is believed to be from “The Sunset Kingdom,” (Westeros) though as it turns out she does not speak the common tongue. She also could be called the “Sunset Girl” because of her curly red hair. The Sunset Girl is very aptly named because she is a symbolic culmination of the sunset portion of Tyrion's arc. Tyrion knows that she is a sex slave and cannot refuse him, but he buys her anyway. It is deeply, deeply disturbing. He has tragically become "the monster" everyone thought he was. He is a rapist. He is a murderer. He is a villain. The end.

Except if Tyrion’s arc is following the song, it is not the end. It is only autumn. It is only sunset. It is only half way through the song.

Winter is still coming for Tyrion and for all the characters. And, there is still the possibility of "a dream of spring" for Tyrion. GRRM doesn't write easy characters and he doesn't write easy wins. He complicates the catharsis of Tyrion killing his lifelong abuser, Tywin, with the murder of Shae and the rape of the Sunset Girl. It is through these acts that the Tyrion we knew, who once defended and protected sex workers and who refused to rape Sansa (as his father instructed him to do) symbolically dies. As he says himself:

There are worse ways to die than drowning. And if truth be told, he had perished long ago, back in King’s Landing. It was only his revenant who remained, the small vengeful ghost who throttled Shae and put a crossbow bolt through the great Lord Tywin’s bowels. No man would mourn the thing that he’d become. (ADWD, Tyrion V)

But, the dead are rising in these novels. Tyrion is rising out of his own long night already the way he cares for and protects Penny, which is reminiscent of Theon Greyjoy's protection of Jeyne Poole. There’s evidence that he will also join forces with Daenerys and her crusade to end slavery. He will see the dragons that he use to dream about as a boy. The spring verse of The Seasons of My Love has not been revealed in the novels. Can this be seen as hopeful? Unlike a straight tragedy, Tyrion's future is not yet written. Just like Jaime's page in the white book: He could write whatever he chose, henceforth. (ASOS, Jaime IX.)

Tyrion's arc mirroring The Seasons of My Love song makes sense, because in spite of the tragedy of his life and the bitterness of his story, he may yet claw his way toward a hopeful ending. After all:

He had been born in the dead of winter, a terrible cruel one that the maesters said had lasted near three years, but Tyrion's earliest memories were of spring. (AGOT, Tyrion III)

The spring verse is likely the first verse of the song. Yet, it's reveal will be the last, ending the books with a beginning.

[queenaryastark]

Arya Stark is her Father's Daughter

Arya doesn't just share the Stark look with Ned. They also share values, insecurities, and abilities. When Ned was teaching Robb and Jon leadership skills, Arya was picking those up as well and we see her implement them throughout her chapters. That's not to say she and her mother don't have similarities. They do. Being similar to her father is not the same as having nothing in common with her mother. She can have similarities with both. But I'll start with one she only shares with Ned.

Insecurities

Arya and her father are both incredibly insecure as a second daughter/son who were overshadowed by their older siblings of the same gender. Interestingly, this is a parallel with Arya that GRRM also gives to Alysanne Targaryen, who he changed in F&B, making her more like Arya. But back to the Starks. Arya was bullied by her older sister and taught that she was inferior to her by the adults around them. Ned's insecurities come from being in the younger brother position for both Brandon and Robert, yet unexpectedly rising to Brandon’s place after his death. Even a decade and a half later, he still feels like he's not enough for the role he has to fill. Similarly, when Ned tells Arya that she will marry a king, she says that's Sansa. We're not in her head in that moment and there's definitely a lot going on on emotional and sociological levels (as well as logically given the current political circumstances), but part of that response is due to her insecurities. Despite factually holding the status of "lady", Arya insists that her mother and sister are ladies, while she is not. This is partly due to her insecurities in "failing" at being who her mother is telling her a lady must be.

Ned's:

"Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King’s Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me.” -- Catelyn II, AGOT

has the same feel as:

“You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.”

Arya screwed up her face. “No,” she said, “that’s Sansa.” -- Eddard V, AGOT

Both of them either have been or are being set up by the narrative to fill roles they were told were meant for another. Regardless of their shared insecurities over their older siblings, Ned and Arya actually fill the societal aspects of their roles well, even to the point where the North is specifically rising for Arya and willing to fight in winter for Ned's little girl.

Speaking of which...

The Common Touch

An important aspect of ruling is making people want to follow you. That involves gaining their love and respect. Those who are best at this are said to have "the common touch". This is something Ned teaches Arya and that she implements naturally through her friendly and extroverted nature:

Back at Winterfell, they had eaten in the Great Hall almost half the time. Her father used to say that a lord needed to eat with his men, if he hoped to keep them. “Know the men who follow you,” she heard him tell Robb once, “and let them know you. Don’t ask your men to die for a stranger.” At Winterfell, he always had an extra seat set at his own table, and every day a different man would be asked to join him. One night it would be Vayon Poole, and the talk would be coppers and bread stores and servants. The next time it would be Mikken, and her father would listen to him go on about armor and swords and how hot a forge should be and the best way to temper steel. Another day it might be Hullen with his endless horse talk, or Septon Chayle from the library, or Jory, or Ser Rodrik, or even Old Nan with her stories.

Arya had loved nothing better than to sit at her father’s table and listen to them talk. She had loved listening to the men on the benches too; to freeriders tough as leather, courtly knights and bold young squires, grizzled old men-at-arms. She used to throw snowballs at them and help them steal pies from the kitchen. Their wives gave her scones and she invented names for their babies and played monsters-and-maidens and hide-the-treasure and come-into-my-castle with their children. Fat Tom used to call her “Arya Underfoot,” because he said that was where she always was. – Arya II, AGOT

Catelyn has this ability to engage with the commons to a degree as well. She knows the names of everyone at Winterfell and at Riverrun, even correcting a person who was currently living at Riverrun. She gives the oarsmen who bring her to King's Landing coin with her own hand to make sure their employer doesn't cheat them. She's always polite to servants. As a result, people regard her with respect.

It's worth noting that Arya shares this ability with Margaery and Alysanne, two belived queen consorts.

Leaders Who Do Their Job

Like Ned (and Cat), Arya believes in capital punishment. From her father, she gained the belief that the person who passes the sentence must perform the execution as well:

The Starks were at war with the Lannisters and she was a Stark, so she should kill as many Lannisters as she could, that was what you did in wars. But she didn’t think she should trust Jaqen. I should kill them myself. Whenever her father had condemned a man to death, he did the deed himself with Ice, his greatsword. “If you would take a man’s life, you owe it to him to look him in the face and hear his last words,” she’d heard him tell Robb and Jon once. -- Arya VII, ACOK

So, the part of Arya’s story that others vilify her for and think makes her too far gone? You know, executing criminals? That comes from Ned and is actually an aspect of her character that proves she is going to be in a position of leadership in the end. She is already administering justice and dealing with complex choices on what justice actually is. This aspect of taking on hard choices and actions isn't exclusive to execution. Arya also takes up additional risks and duties while leading her pack through a war zone. She uses her privileged education to read maps, gather information including reading letters, and doing extra tasks like doubling back to obscure the tracks they're leaving. And yes, she also executes criminals.

Like Ned, Arya is being set up as a leader who actually does something as opposed to the leaders who distance themselves from the less pleasant parts of their job.

So, yes, Arya is like Ned in many ways that are fundamental to her character. This isn't controversial. It's just canon.

[thelustybraavosimaid]

Needleheart Winter 2022 - Wargs, Wolves, and Connections

The kennelmaster once told her that an animal takes after its master. (Sansa I, AGoT)

--

He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. (Prologue, ADwD)

--

Arya had named her after the warrior queen of the Rhoyne, who had led her people across the narrow sea. That had been a great scandal too. (Arya I, AGoT)

--

"Some will tell you that they are demons. They say the pack is led by a monstrous she-wolf, a stalking shadow grim and grey and huge. They will tell you that she has been known to bring aurochs down all by herself, that no trap nor snare can hold her, that she fears neither steel nor fire, slays any wolf that tries to mount her, and devours no other flesh but man." (Brienne V, AFfC)

--

He was watching the action, so absorbed that he seemed unaware of her approach until his white wolf moved to meet them. Nymeria stalked closer on wary feet. Ghost, already larger than his litter mates, smelled her, gave her ear a careful nip, and settled back down.

...

He messed up her hair again and walked away from her, Ghost moving silently beside him. Nymeria started to follow too, then stopped and came back when she saw that Arya was not coming. (Arya I, AGoT)

--

Arya was in her room, packing a polished ironwood chest that was bigger than she was. Nymeria was helping. Arya would only have to point, and the wolf would bound across the room, snatch up some wisp of silk in her jaws, and fetch it back. But when she smelled Ghost, she sat down on her haunches and yelped at them. (Jon II, AGoT)

He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow. (Jon VII, ACoK)

--

And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf. (Arya X, ACoK)

In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister's pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself. (Jon I, ADwD)

[ai-manre]

Let me elaborate.

As of now, we still don't know how the succession goes when bastards are legitimized. Cat warns Robb that "If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again". This can imply that Jon will be considered as just another Stark once legitimized. Which makes him the eldest son, the best claim. Now, even if this isn't the case, and I'm sure there will be a lot of different parties with different interests here (LF is pushing Sansa's claim, Manderly is pushing Rickon's, Arya is the one all of North is currently rallying for, Bran will have the actual best claim once revealed alive). We come to the second point:

THE LONE WOLF DIES, THE PACK SURVIVES. Ned's exact words were "When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. " See that? The point is to be a pack and share their strengths. It's similar to the argument Jon makes about the Night's Watch to Maester Aemon:

He told me that a maester's collar is made of chain to remind him that he is sworn to serve," Jon said, remembering. "I asked why each link was a different metal. A silver chain would look much finer with his grey robes, I said. Maester Luwin laughed. A maester forges his chain with study, he told me. The different metals are each a different kind of learning, gold for the study of money and accounts, silver for healing, iron for warcraft. And he said there were other meanings as well. The collar is supposed to remind a maester of the realm he serves, isn't that so? Lords are gold and knights steel, but two links can't make a chain. You also need silver and iron and lead, tin and copper and bronze and all the rest, and those are farmers and smiths and merchants and the like. A chain needs all sorts of metals, and a land needs all sorts of people. - Jon V, AGOT

Jon argues that an institution like the Night's Watch needs all sort of people to thrive and so does a kingdom, and so does a House. When the cold winds rise, everyone must unite and work together. A good pack is one where each tool has its place, where everyone is in the positions best suited for them. Jon is the one with the ruler experience and leadership arc, and a heavy amount of King foreshadowing, and who is already performing the King's duty of protecting people (as Gilly and Alys are so good to highlight to us). He (and Dany) have been given long leadership trainings arcs for a reason, because he has to be the leader for the War for the Dawn. His siblings are smart enough to recognize that.

Besides, them all accepting him as a Stark, as their leader, is so important both to them and to Jon:

Robb: Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice. - Catelyn V, ASOS

Sansa: She had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half brother, but still . . . with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again. But of course that could never be. Alayne Stone had no brothers, baseborn or otherwise. - Alayne II, AFFC

Bran: The old knight put a hand on Bran's arm. "A kindly thought, my prince, but I am only a knight, and besides too old. I might hold her lands for a few years, but as soon as I died Lady Hornwood would find herself back in the same mire, and Beth's prospects might be perilous as well." "Then let Lord Hornwood's bastard be the heir," Bran said, thinking of his half brother Jon. - Bran II, ACOK

Rickon: It had been the night of the welcoming feast, when King Robert had brought his court to Winterfell. Summer still reigned then. His parents had shared the dais with Robert and his queen, with her brothers beside her. Uncle Benjen had been there too, all in black. Bran and his brothers and sisters sat with the king's children, Joffrey and Tommen and Princess Myrcella, who'd spent the whole meal gazing at Robb with adoring eyes. Arya made faces across the table when no one was looking; Sansa listened raptly while the king's high harper sang songs of chivalry, and Rickon kept asking why Jon wasn't with them. "Because he's a bastard," Bran finally had to whisper to him. - Bran III, ACOK

I'm not even bothering to include quotes for Arya. It's Arya! She loves Jon more than anything and- okay who am I kidding, I want to include this quote for her as well:

"Besides, if a girl can't fight, why should she have a coat of arms?"

Jon shrugged. "Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.".[...]

He gave her a half smile. "Bastards are not allowed to damage young princes," he said. "Any bruises they take in the practice yard must come from trueborn swords." "Oh." Arya felt abashed. She should have realized. For the second time today, Arya reflected that life was not fair. - Arya I, AGOT

Jon gave Arya a sword, Arya will give Jon a coat of arms, and they will make things more fair in the world.

Whenever the topic of the future Stark succession comes up, most of the takes are always "Jon loves his siblings too much to usurp their birthrights" and never "his siblings love Jon enough to recognize he's the one most suited to lead" huh.

[snowsandstones]

just finished watching the finale and it’s actually quite clear that jon is choosing sansa over all else, because he loves her.

the repetition of him going protective wolf mode over and over to the point that it became a meme?

it establishes this as fundamental to his character. he’s fulfilling his promise, whether she thinks he can or not:

(and vice versa)

and add the book prophecy to this equation and it makes it even clearer:

The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . . -ACOK, D IV

she’s right: the first was Mirri, done for blood (to avenge her people).

The warlocks whispered of three treasons . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love. The first traitor was surely Mirri Maz Duur, who had murdered Khal Drogo and their unborn son to avenge her people. Could Pyat Pree and Xaro Xhoan Daxos be the second and the third? She did not think so. What Pyat did was not for gold, and Xaro had never truly loved her. -ACOK, D V

the second has to be done for gold.

"I have loved you." And there it was. Three treasons will you know. Once for blood and once for gold and once for love. -ASOS, D VI

but Jorah doesn’t betray her for love. it’s for gold, despite his “love”.

she knows this deep down, because it confuses her. she mulls over it constantly, tries to forestall it, tries to make sense of it. (certainly not something we’ve seen with another queen determined to prevent a prophecy and inadvertently causing it). the prophecy looms large in her thoughts (and our foreshadowing) throughout ADWD:

"What if Daario has betrayed me and gone over to my enemies?" Three treasons will you know.

"The blood of the dragon." But my dragons are roaring in the darkness. "I remember the Undying. Child of three, they called me. Three mounts they promised me, three fires, and three treasons. One for blood and one for gold and one for …"

When Reznak and Skahaz appeared, she found herself looking at them askance, mindful of the three treasons. Beware the perfumed seneschal. She sniffed suspiciously at Reznak mo Reznak. I could command the Shavepate to arrest him and put him to the question. Would that forestall the prophecy? Or would some other betrayer take his place? Prophecies are treacherous, she reminded herself,

Three treasons will you know. Once for gold and once for blood and once for love. Was Plumm the third treason, or the second? And what did that make Ser Jorah, her gruff old bear? Would she never have a friend that she could trust? What good are prophecies if you cannot make sense of them?

Dany had once eaten a stallion's heart to give strength to her unborn son … but that had not saved Rhaego when the maegi murdered him in her womb. Three treasons shall you know. She was the first, Jorah was the second, Brown Ben Plumm the third. Was she done with betrayals?

and it finally unfolds with Jon committing the ultimate treason: betraying and murdering his queen. not out of love. for love. for Sansa.

and speaking of prophecies from the house of the undying…she sees many things, the war of the five kings, the red wedding, etc.

and she sees the very end of our story:

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

and in the same book, GRRM tells us what it means:

"And she never sung you the song o' the winter rose?"

“He was King-beyond-the-Wall a long time back. All the free folk know his songs […] “All I ask is a flower,' Bael answered, 'the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o' Winterfell.'" “Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o' the winter roses be plucked for the singer's payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished . . . and so had Lord Brandon's maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain." "Lord Brandon had no other children. At his behest, the black crows flew forth from their castles in the hundreds, but nowhere could they find any sign o' Bael or this maid. For most a year they searched, till the lord lost heart and took to his bed, and it seemed as though the line o' Starks was at its end. But one night as he lay waiting to die, Lord Brandon heard a child's cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast." “The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says […] and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. […] “It never happened," Jon said. She shrugged. "Might be it did, might be it didn't. It is a good song, though.

The second to last episode title? “The last of the Starks”. And the final moments of the finale? The Queen in the North lined up with the implied eventual King Beyond the Wall.

[fedonciadale]

I've often thought that for all that there's a certain 'dudebro' portion of the fanbase that squees over ASOIAF being 'grimdark' (i.e. 'realistic' because everything sucks and is awful and good guys 'always lose' and anyone can die, you have to be awful/amoral to 'survive' etc) and the like, the actual series feels far more hopepunk (i.e. fighting for a better world with morality in the face of things being bad). Your thoughts?

Hi there!

Exactly! How can you read passages like these:

Ned knelt beside her. "He has years to find that answer, Arya. For now, it is enough to know that he will live." The night the bird had come from Winterfell, Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned's cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon's breath surrounded the girls where they lay. "I dreamed of Bran," Sansa had whispered to him. "I saw him smiling." (AGOT, Eddard V)

or this:

Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either. (ACOK, Bran VII)

or this:

It was a place of whites and blacks and greys. White towers and white snow and white statues, black shadows and black trees, the dark grey sky above. A pure world, Sansa thought. I do not belong here.

Yet she stepped out all the same. Her boots tore ankle-deep holes into the smooth white surface of the snow, yet made no sound. Sansa drifted past frosted shrubs and thin dark trees, and wondered if she were still dreaming. Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover's kisses, and melted on her cheeks. At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams. (ASOS, Sansa VII)

or this:

"I know the cost! Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning . . . burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?" The king moved, so his shadow fell upon King's Landing. "If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"

"Everything," said Davos, softly. (ASOS, Davos V)

Or this one:

"Be that as it may. My father sat where I sit now when Lord Eddard came to Sisterton. Our maester urged us to send Stark's head to Aerys, to prove our loyalty. It would have meant a rich reward. The Mad King was open-handed with them as pleased him. By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. 'This Baratheon is fearless,' I said. 'He fights the way a king should fight.' Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel. That was when Stark said, 'In this world only winter is certain. We may lose our heads, it's true … but what if we prevail?' My father sent him on his way with his head still on his shoulders. 'If you lose,' he told Lord Eddard, 'you were never here.' " (ADWD, Davos I)

I think you have to be especially opinionated to read this and come to the conclusion that ASOIAF is a series that is grimdark and realistic and has no hope. Yes, everyone can die, yes, people are brutal, deaths are brutal, politicians do not care about the cost of lives. And I think ASOIAF will be "realistic" in that regard that some of the baddies might survive. Walder Frey might just die of old age in his bed, Tyrion might become hand, but the Lannister legacy will die and the Frey legacy as well with only the honourable Freys surviving.

In a way it's a 'realistic' hope, a hope against all odds, but that there is no point in hope is definitely not what GRRM wants to convey to his readers. Hope is difficult, it can be disappointed, but it is always the better option.

WHAT IF WE PREVAIL?

That is what drives the better characters. They want to try!

Thanks for the ask!

[aemontargaryen-bloodraven]

The Song O' the Winter Rose

Lord Brandon sent the members of the Night's Watch looking for them beyond the Wall, but they never found Bael or the girl. The Stark line was on the verge of extinction, when one day the girl was back in her room, holding in her arms an infant: they had actually never left Winterfell, staying hidden in the crypts. Bael's bastard with Brandon's daughter became the new Lord Stark.

A Storm of Swords

By law, she comes after Sansa . . . your own sister, trueborn . . ."

". . . and dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya since they cut Father's head off. Why do you lie to yourself? Arya's gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice." - Catelyn V

Just like Bael's bastard with Brandon's daughter became the new Lord Stark, Rhaegar's bastard <as of what we know and can say so far> with Rickard's daughter will become the next King in the North, Jon Stark.

[istumpysk]

Operation Stumpy Re-Read

ASOS: Tyrion VII (Chapter 58)

Tyrion dressed himself in darkness, listening to his wife's soft breathing from the bed they shared. She dreams, he thought, when Sansa murmured something softly—a name, perhaps, though it was too faint to say—and turned onto her side. As man and wife they shared a marriage bed, but that was all. Even her tears she hoards to herself.

Lady.

That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so . . . - Sansa IV, ASOS

+.+.+

He had expected anguish and anger when he told her of her brother's death, but Sansa's face had remained so still that for a moment he feared she had not understood. It was only later, with a heavy oaken door between them, that he heard her sobbing.

+.+.+

The way she looked at him, her stiffness when she climbed into their bed . . . when he was with her, never for an instant could he forget who he was, or what he was. 

Good.

+.+.+

She still went nightly to the godswood to pray, and Tyrion wondered if she were praying for his death. She had lost her home, her place in the world, and everyone she had ever loved or trusted. Winter is coming, warned the Stark words, and truly it had come for them with a vengeance. But it is high summer for House Lannister. So why am I so bloody cold?

If there is any justice in this world, that's foreshadowing.

+.+.+

Tyrion could hear Brella's snoring as he passed her cell. Shae complained of that, but it seemed a small enough price to pay. Varys had suggested the woman to him; in former days, she had run Lord Renly's household in the city, which had given her a deal of practice at being blind, deaf, and mute.

Man, those Tyrells. Everyone knew he was gay, and they still made their daughter marry him. Brutal.

+.+.+

Down he went, to the ground floor and beyond, to emerge in a gloomy cellar with a vaulted stone ceiling. Much of the castle was connected underground, and the Kitchen Keep was no exception.

Oh good, we're visiting the tunnels.

+.+.+

Within, the dragon skulls were waiting, and so was Shae. 

Any rats?

+.+.+

Her dress was draped over a black tooth near as tall as she was, and she stood within the dragon's jaws, nude. Balerion, he thought. Or was it Vhagar? One dragon skull looked much like another.

Heh, kind of like the Targaryens.

From the weirwood mouth straight to the dragon's jaw. Shae, I would get out of there if I were you.

<- Daenerys V, ASOS

They were Magister Illyrio's ships, in truth, not hers at all, and yet she had given them new names with hardly a thought. Dragon names, and more; in old Valyria before the Doom, Balerion, Meraxes, and Vhagar had been gods.

Connections! We're making connections!

+.+.+

"M'lord will pluck me from the dragon's jaws, I know." But when he waddled closer she leaned forward and blew out the taper.

Their candle just went out.

+.+.+

Hiring Shae as one of Sansa's maids had given him an excuse to be seen talking with her, but Tyrion did not delude himself that they were safe. Varys had warned him. "I gave Shae a false history, but it was meant for Lollys and Lady Tanda. Your sister is of a more suspicious mind. If she should ask me what I know . . ."

"You will tell her some clever lie."

"No. I will tell her that the girl is a common camp follower that you acquired before the battle on the Green Fork and brought to King's Landing against your lord father's express command. I will not lie to the queen."

What kind of deranged mind hires their personal sex worker to be their child bride's maid?

Much like Littlefinger, Varys has given Tyrion every reason not to trust him. He ignores it.

+.+.+

"Pardon me if I do not weep for you."

"I shall, but you must pardon me if I do not weep for Shae. I confess, I do not understand what there is in her to make a clever man like you act such a fool."

"You might, if you were not a eunuch."

This is so pathetic, I can't even make fun of it.

But my cock!

+.+.+

Why should I be guilty? My wife wants no part of me, and most especially not the part that seems to want her.

+.+.+

Perhaps he ought to tell her about Shae. It was not as though he was the first man ever to keep a concubine. Sansa's own oh-so-honorable father had given her a bastard brother. For all he knew, his wife might be thrilled to learn that he was fucking Shae, so long as it spared her his unwelcome touch.

What the fuck?

+.+.+

No, I dare not. Vows or no, his wife could not be trusted. She might be maiden between the legs, but she was hardly innocent of betrayal; she had once spilled her own father's plans to Cersei. And girls her age were not known for keeping secrets.

No.

+.+.+

The only safe course was to rid himself of Shae. I might send her to Chataya, Tyrion reflected, reluctantly. In Chataya's brothel, Shae would have all the silks and gems she could wish for, and the gentlest highborn patrons. It would be a better life by far than the one she had been living when he'd found her.

Or, if she was tired of earning her bread on her back, he might arrange a marriage for her. Bronn, perhaps? The sellsword had never balked at eating off his master's plate, and he was a knight now, a better match than she could elsewise hope for. Or Ser Tallad? Tyrion had noticed that one gazing wistfully at Shae more than once. Why not? He's tall, strong, not hard to look upon, every inch the gifted young knight. 

If you know Tyrion like I know Tyrion, you realize this had zero percent chance of ever materializing.

+.+.+

A new year. A new century. I survived the Green Fork and the Blackwater, I can bloody well survive King Joffrey's wedding.

Thank your ridiculous plot armour.

+.+.+

She bent over to give him one last kiss, upon the brow. "My giant of Lannister. I love you so."

And I love you as well, sweetling. A whore she might well be, but she deserved better than what he had to give her. I will wed her to Ser Tallad. He seems a decent man. And tall . . .

Watch me hold my breath.

Final thoughts:

What was the point of this chapter? How did this chapter move the plot forward? What new things did we learn in this chapter?

It's a new century, it's Joffrey's wedding day, and Sansa has new maids. How easy was it to put all of that in Sansa's next chapter?

THIS IS SO UNNECESSARY.

31 down, 18 to go. :(

-> return to menu <-

[stormcloudrising]

Jenny of Oldstones: Song Lyrics From Show Make No Sense

I was just doing some housekeeping and deleting some draft essays that I know that I’m probably never going to complete and came across this one that I wrote back in 2019 when the show ended. I don’t know why I didn’t post it then.  Maybe I meant to add more to it but never got around to doing so. 

My concentration for the next few months will be to complete the Florian and Jonquil and the Dragon vs the Wolf series and so I doubt I’ll have time to expand anymore on this topic in death. And actually, Jenny of Oldstones will be coming up in the F&J series and so I’m just going to go ahead and post as is what I previously wrote.  

One thing that did jump out at me as I was re-reading is that “Oldstones” could potentially be spelled as Oldestones with the extra *e* after old being the archaic spelling. George is very fond of using anagrams in the text and If we think of it that way, Oldestones becomes an anagram for lodestone and now my mind is just going off is so many directions because of the possible implications. Of course, I could be reaching.  Any way, here are my thoughts on the song from as written 3 years ago.

High in the halls of the kings who are gone Jenny would dance with her ghosts The ones she had lost and the ones she had found And the ones who had loved her the most

The ones who'd been gone for so very long She couldn't remember their names They spun her around on the damp old stones Spun away all her sorrow and pain

And she never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave Never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave

They danced through the day And into the night through the snow that swept through the hall From winter to summer then winter again 'Til the walls did crumble and fall

And she never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave Never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave And she never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave Never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave

High in the halls of the kings who are gone Jenny would dance with her ghosts The ones she had lost and the ones she had found And the ones Who had loved her the most

A video with the Jenny of Oldstones lyrics from the show just popped up in my youtube feed. I didn’t watch the video but the lyrics went through my head and it occurred that other than the use of Jenny’s name and the reference to the halls of kings, the lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with Martin’s story.

The show lyrics are about a woman who has lost her loved ones to death and constantly revisits the place that holds the most memories of them. The Jenny of D&D’s song is not dead. 

Jenny died at Summer Hall

The lyrics to the song are actually more appropriate to the Ghost of High Heart. She is the one living with her ghosts in the halls of the kings who have gone. She’s the one who doesn’t want to leave. Of course, the GOHH has not forgotten the names of her ghost.  She remembers Jenny all too well.

Finally, where are the flowers in Jenny’s hair. There is not one mention of flowers in the song even though she is so identified with them, Rob tells us that it

"Oldstones, all the smallfolk called it when I was a girl, but no doubt it had some other name when it was still a hall of kings." She had camped here once with her father, on their way to Seagard. Petyr was with us too . . .

"There's a song," he remembered. "'Jenny of Oldstones, with the flowers in her hair.'"

"We're all just songs in the end. If we are lucky." She had played at being Jenny that day, had even wound flowers in her hair. And Petyr had pretended to be her Prince of Dragonflies. Catelyn could not have been more than twelve, Petyr just a boy.

A Storm of Swords - Catelyn V

Yes, one car argue that the lyrics make sense in regards to the show...probably most in Sansa’s arc as the series ends with her alone at Winterfell living with all of her ghosts. And she definitely never wants to leave. However, the lyrics are further proof that in the last few years, D&D were writing their story and not George’s. Yes, the ending will basically be the same...just different garden paths to get there

We can be certain that when we get the true lyrics of the song from George, there will be a reference to flowers in Jenny’s hair but it just irks me that D&D didn’t even attempt to get that one detail right. 

[dontbipanicjonsa]

A confusing clusterfuck of thoughts re: Jonsa

Or: why the fuck are Jon and Sansa so compatible if they're not canon, huh?

He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. - Bran III AGOT

So....Jon is going to lose memory of all warmth? I'm going to separate the changes brought about in post-resurrection!Jon here as changes caused by death and changes caused by Ghost. This post is only speculating about the changes caused by death i.e. loss of memory of all warmth.

More foreshadowing for that-

Chunks of coal burned in iron braziers at either end of the long room, but Jon found himself shivering. The chill was always with him here. In a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm. - Jon III AGOT

"It was. The fort is in a sorry state, admittedly. You will restore it as best you can..." ... You'll sleep on stone, too exhausted to complain or plot, and soon you'll forget what it was like to be warm, but you might remember what it was to be a man. - Jon II ADWD

So, I did a word search for warm and memory and I found some interesting stuff. Read under the cut.

1. Home

Jon- warmth and memory of home

The memory of her laughter warmed him on the long ride north. - Jon II AGOT (thinking about Arya)

The weariness came on him suddenly... So cold, he thought, remembering the warm halls of Winterfell, where the hot waters ran through the walls like blood through a man's body. There was scant warmth to be found in Castle Black... - Jon III AGOT

...Iron Emmett was still urging on his charges in the yard. The song of steel on steel woke a hunger in Jon. It reminded him of warmer, simpler days, when he had been a boy at Winterfell matching blades with Robb under the watchful eye of Ser Rodrik Cassel. Ser Rodrik too had fallen, slain by Theon Turncloak... All my memories are poisoned. - Jon VI ADWD

The warmth took some of the ache from his muscles and made him think of Winterfell's muddy pools, steaming and bubbling in the godswood. Winterfell, he thought. Theon left it burned and broken, but I could restore it.-Jon XII ASOS

So, these are the memories of warmth he'll lose? This warmth, that he associates with Winterfell (and the Starks), is the first memory of warmth Jon has.

Dany- memory of home

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind... and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

"… the dragon …" - Daenerys IX AGOT

Home? The word made her feel sad. Ser Jorah had his Bear Island, but what was home to her? A few tales, names recited as solemnly as the words of a prayer, the fading memory of a red door … was Vaes Dothrak to be her home forever? - Daenerys VI AGOT

..."What shall we talk of?"

"Home," said Dany. "Naath. Butterflies and brothers. Tell me of the things that make you happy, the things that make you giggle, all your sweetest memories. Remind me that there is still good in the world."

Missandei did her best. She was still talking when Dany finally fell to sleep, to dream queer, half-formed dreams of smoke and fire. - Daenerys VIII ADWD

Dany's idea of 'home' changes over the course of the books. In the beginning she uses home for Illyrio's house, or the house with the red door. She very clearly doesn't think of Westeros as her home. After Viserys's death however, there's a sudden shift. Now, Westeros is her long lost home that she must return to someday. It's jarring. Interestingly enough, she pretty clearly rejects the idea of Dothraki khalasars as home, and the only time she calls Meereen home is in her last chapter of ADWD where she's trying to convince herself to return there. But we know that she ultimately rejects that too, in the same chapter.

Sansa- memory of home

Snow was falling on the Eyrie.

Outside the flakes drifted down as soft and silent as memory. Was this what woke me? Already the snowfall lay thick... The sight took Sansa back to cold nights long ago, in the long summer of her childhood. - Sansa VII ASOS

Last of all came the Royces, Lord Nestor and Bronze Yohn... Though his hair was grey and his face lined, Lord Yohn still looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands. His seamed and solemn face brought back all of Sansa's memories of his time at Winterfell. - Alayne I AFFC

She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend... She tried not to think of them too often, yet sometimes the memories came unbidden, and then it was hard to hold back the tears. Once in a while, Sansa even missed her sister. By now Arya was safe back in Winterfell... - Sansa II ACOK

Arya coz why not

"Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths.… Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you …" - Arya II AGOT

Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile. He used to mess my hair and call me "little sister," she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes. - Arya II AFFC

Again, all this (and much more) is stuff that reminds Sansa (and Arya) of home. This is, presumably, shit that Jon is gonna forget. Or maybe he'll retain the memories and only lose the emotions (warmth) associated with it?

2. Suitors or romantic/sexual partners (+Ben Plumm)

Jon

Many a night he lay with Ygritte warm beside him,... - Jon V ASOS

So, Ygritte becomes his second memory of warmth.

When he turned he saw Ygritte.

...cloaked in darkness and in memory. The light of the moon was in her hair, her red hair kissed by fire. When he saw that, Jon's heart leapt into his mouth. "Ygritte," he said.

"Lord Snow." The voice was Melisandre's.

Surprise made him recoil from her. "Lady Melisandre." He took a step backwards. "I mistook you for someone else." At night all robes are grey. - Jon VI ADWD

AT NIGHT ALL ROBES ARE GREY...yea I know, this is a well established connection between the Girl in Grey and Ygritte. Since Jon associates Ygritte with warmth so strongly, I think it's safe to assume that the Girl in Grey might play a role in warming him too (hehe).

… one hears queer talk of dragons."

"Would that we had one here. A dragon might warm things up a bit."

"My lord jests. You will forgive me if I do not laugh. We Braavosi are descended from those who fled Valyria and the wroth of its dragonlords. We do not jape of dragons." - Jon IX ADWD

Yikes.

Dany

"If my queen commands," he (Jorah) said, curt and cold.

Dany was warm enough for both of them. "She does," she said. "She commands...

When he was gone, Dany threw herself down on her pillows beside her dragons. She had not meant to be so sharp with Ser Jorah, but his endless suspicion had finally woken her dragon. - Daenerys IV ASOS

So, here the warmth is because of anger (woken the dragon).

Dany could feel the warmth of his fingers. He was warm in Qarth as well, she recalled, until the day he had no more use for me. She rose to her feet. "Come," she said, and Xaro followed her through the pillars... - Daenerys III ADWD

She remembered Ben's face the last time she had seen it. It was a warm face, a face I trusted... Even the dragons had been fond of old Brown Ben, who liked to boast that he had a drop of dragon blood himself. Three treasons will you know. Once for gold and once for blood and once for love. Was Plumm the third treason, or the second? And what did that make Ser Jorah, her gruff old bear? Would she never have a friend that she could trust?- Daenerys VI ADWD

This is twice that Dany associates warmth with people who use/betray her.

"You're hurt," she gasped.

"This?" Daario touched his temple. "A crossbowman tried to put a quarrel through my eye, but I outrode it. I was hurrying home to my queen, to bask in the warmth of her smile." He shook his sleeve, spattering red droplets. - Daenerys VI ADWD

Dawn always came too soon.

...If only she had the power, she would have made their nights go on forever, but the best that she could do was stay awake to try and savor every last sweet moment before daybreak turned them into no more than fading memories....

Dany wrapped her arms around her captain and pressed herself against his back. She drank in the scent of him, savoring the warmth of his flesh, the feel of his skin against her own. Remember, she told herself. Remember how he felt. - Daenerys VII ADWD

Ok, I forgot how smitten Dany was with Daario. It would be cute if Daario wasn't so horrifying. Girl has some seriously questionable taste.

Interestingly, the phrase 'fading memory' is used four times in the text (as far as I can find) and three of those times are in Daenerys's POV. One is in the above quote, where she's commanding herself to remember her time with Daario before her marriage to Hizdahr, and the other time is while thinking about the red door. Both these are memories that are important to her, that connect her to the hopeful/little/not-dark girl she once was.

Sansa

Gently, he spoke of Braavos, and met a wall of sullen courtesy as icy and unyielding as the Wall he had walked once in the north. - Tyrion VIII ASOS

"I am composing a new song, you should know. A song so sweet and sad it will melt even your frozen heart. 'The Roadside Rose,' I mean to call it. About a baseborn girl so beautiful she bewitched every man who laid eyes upon her." - Sansa VII ASOS

"Alayne." Her aunt's singer stood over her. "Sweet Alayne. I am Marillion. I saw you come in from the rain. The night is chill and wet. Let me warm you." - Sansa VI ASOS

You must be very cold. Let me warm you, Sansa. Take off those gloves, give me your hands." - Sansa VII ASOS

Yea no. Sansa has not had a good experience with people offering to warm her (unfreeze her? melt her?)

Looks like in TWOW there's going to be two people in desperate need of some warming.

It's pretty neat actually. Jon associates memories of warmth with two things primarily: Winterfell/the Starks, and Ygritte. Sansa is both a Stark, and a much (much) improved Ygritte.

Sansa's iciness-wall-armour is a form of protection that she employs against predatory men. The only person who can melt her frozen heart...is someone who is not predatory. Someone who cares for her. Jon.

It fits perfectly. They fit perfectly.

[agentrouka-blog]

Do you think Ned ensuring Lady made it to Winterfell will be mirrored by Sansa securing Ned’s bones, and having them properly buried in the crypts? 🤔

I don't know!

It would be a proper mirror to how Arya is likely to reunite with the "remains" of Catelyn after her death, and it would be a nice mirror to her confrontation with his severed head.

(Some quotes and Ned/Cat-related speculation under the cut.)

She turned that way, and saw only the city, streets and alleys and hills and bottoms and more streets and more alleys and the stone of distant walls. Yet she knew that beyond them was open country, farms and fields and forests, and beyond that, north and north and north again, stood Winterfell.

“What are you looking at?” Joffrey said. “This is what I wanted you to see, right here.”

A thick stone parapet protected the outer edge of the rampart, reaching as high as Sansa’s chin, with crenellations cut into it every five feet for archers. The heads were mounted between the crenels, along the top of the wall, impaled on iron spikes so they faced out over the city. Sansa had noted them the moment she’d stepped out onto the wallwalk, but the river and the bustling streets and the setting sun were ever so much prettier. He can make me look at the heads, she told herself, but he can’t make me see them.

“This one is your father,” he said. “This one here. Dog, turn it around so she can see him.”

Sandor Clegane took the head by the hair and turned it. The severed head had been dipped in tar to preserve it longer. Sansa looked at it calmly, not seeing it at all. It did not really look like Lord Eddard, she thought; it did not even look real. “How long do I have to look?” (AGOT, Sansa VI)

(This passage, btw, has a lot of language mirrors to Bran's coma dream.)

The heavy-handed foreshadowing that she will return to Winterfell is directly connected to Ned’s “bones”. So is her defiance, and her self-sacrificial rage.

Barbrey is lurking and wants to serve Ned’s bones to her dogs, just as she helped serve Jeyne Poole as “Arya” to Ramsay, who had come the same way through the Neck. Jeyne Poole escapes. So will the bones, I wager.

If Arya is the one to give Catelyn peace, after Nymeria recovered her desecrated body, then it would make sense for Sansa to be the one to collect Ned’s bones from their enemies and help them complete the journey home.

But I kind of also like a competing scenario.

His regency would be a short one, he reflected as the wax softened. The new king would choose his own Hand. Ned would be free to go home. The thought of Winterfell brought a wan smile to his face. He wanted to hear Bran's laughter once more, to go hawking with Robb, to watch Rickon at play. He wanted to drift off to a dreamless sleep in his own bed with his arms wrapped tight around his lady, Catelyn. (AGOT, Eddard XIII)

Which mirrors...

They had dressed the bones in Ned's surcoat, the fine white velvet with the direwolf badge over the heart, but nothing remained of the warm flesh that had pillowed her head so many nights, the arms that had held her. The head had been rejoined to the body with fine silver wire, but one skull looks much like another, and in those empty hollows she found no trace of her lord's dark grey eyes, eyes that could be soft as a fog or hard as stone. They gave his eyes to crows, she remembered. (ACOK, Catelyn V)

Both long for each other’s embrace. In theory, they could reunite in death.

I wonder if there is going to be some kind of compromise, if Catelyn and Ned will reunite in death, in a way that doesn’t privilege one tradition over the other.

Let the kings of winter have their cold crypt under the earth, Catelyn thought. The Tullys drew their strength from the river, and it was to the river they returned when their lives had run their course. (ASOS, Catelyn IV)     

Either Catelyn is given a proper Tully burial to make up for the horrible mockery commited by the Freys, or she will sacrifice her tradition - and Ned as well - and both will have something different - ancient - together.

There’s an interesting conversation happening in the crypts between Ned and Robert.

"She was a Stark of Winterfell," Ned said quietly. "This is her place."

"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean." (AGOT, Eddard I)

Later again, they talk in another graveyard, the barrowlands - Barbrey Dustin’s lands - amid the ancient graves of the Barrow Kings.

The rising sun sent fingers of light through the pale white mists of dawn. A wide plain spread out beneath them, bare and brown, its flatness here and there relieved by long, low hummocks. Ned pointed them out to his king. "The barrows of the First Men."

Robert frowned. "Have we ridden onto a graveyard?"

"There are barrows everywhere in the north, Your Grace," Ned told him. "This land is old." (...)

He belonged in Winterfell. He belonged with Catelyn in her grief, and with Bran.

A man could not always be where he belonged, though. Resigned, Eddard Stark put his boots into his horse and set off after the king. (AGOT, Eddard II)

The barrows are older than Winterfell’s crypts. A tradition of the first men.

And interestingly enough, there is this:

"Catelyn Tully dispatched Lord Eddard's bones north before the Red Wedding, but your iron uncle seized Moat Cailin and closed the way. I have been watching ever since. Should those bones ever emerge from the swamps, they will get no farther than Barrowton." She threw one last lingering look at the likeness of Eddard Stark. "We are done here." (ADWD, The Turncloak)

I am torn.

If Ned and Cat are to be reunited in death, it cannot be in the crypts, because that would unfairly privilege Ned’s traditions. Cat has made it clear she values her own, as she should.

So it’s either something completely new for both of them, or it’s separate burials. But don’t ask me how or why. Maybe the crypts are going through remodelling. Something.

Thoughts, anyone?

[thelustybraavosimaid]

Needleheart Winter 2022: Protecting the Weak

JON

Thorne smiled. "The Bastard wishes to defend his lady love, so we shall make an exercise of it. Rat, Pimple, help our Stone Head here." Rast and Albett moved to join Halder. "Three of you ought to be sufficient to make Lady Piggy squeal. All you need do is get past the Bastard."

"Stay behind me," Jon said to the fat boy. Ser Alliser had often sent two foes against him, but never three. He knew he would likely go to sleep bruised and bloody tonight. He braced himself for the assault.

--

"Go inside the tent and stay with Dalla. It's not safe out here." It wouldn't be a great deal safer inside, but she didn't need to hear that.

"I need to find the midwife," Val said.

"You're the midwife. I'll stay here until Mance comes back." [...] A few of them gave Jon dark looks but Longclaw was in his hand, and no one troubled him. (Jon X, ASoS)

--

"I know what I swore." Jon said the words. "I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. Were those the same words you said when you took your vows?"

"They were. As the lord commander knows."

"Are you certain that I have not forgotten some? The ones about the king and his laws, and how we must defend every foot of his land and cling to each ruined castle? How does that part go?" Jon waited for an answer. None came. "I am the shield that guards the realms of men. Those are the words. So tell me, my lord—what are these wildlings, if not men?" (Jon XI, ADwD)

ARYA

Sansa slid off her mare, but she was too slow. Arya swung with both hands. There was a loud crack as the wood split against the back of the prince's head, and then everything happened at once before Sansa's horrified eyes. Joffrey staggered and whirled around, roaring curses. Mycah ran for the trees as fast as his legs would take him. Arya swung at the prince again, but this time Joffrey caught the blow on Lion's Tooth and sent her broken stick flying from her hands. (Sansa I, AGoT)

--

"I'm sick of carrying him, and I'm sick of all his talk about yielding too. If he could stand up, I'd knock his teeth in. Lommy's no use to anyone. That crying girl's no use either."

"You leave Weasel alone, she's just scared and hungry is all." Arya glanced back, but the girl was not following for once. Hot Pie must have grabbed her, like Gendry had told him. (Arya V, ACoK)

--

"He has no coin," mocked the fair-haired bravo. His dark-haired friend grinned and said something in Braavosi. "My friend Terro is chilly. Be our good fat friend and give him your cloak."

"Don't do that either," said the barrow girl, "or else they'll ask for your boots next, and before long you'll be naked."

"Little cats who howl too loud get drowned in the canals," warned the fair-haired bravo.

"Not if they have claws." And suddenly there was a knife in the girl's left hand, a blade as skinny as she was. The one called Terro said something to his fair-haired friend and the two of them moved off, chuckling at one another.

"Thank you," Sam told the girl when they were gone. (Samwell III, AFfC)

[jackoshadows]

One of the things that totally baffles and frustrates me in the asoiaf fandom is the fanon that Sansa is smarter and more diplomatic than Jon and Dany.

How can anyone read the books and come to the conclusion that Sansa is more diplomatic than Jon and Dany? On what basis is this comparison made? Jon and Dany are military leaders and rulers respectively who have successfully negotiated from disadvantaged positions. What is the equivalent of this for Sansa?

These are the issues that Dany faced in Meereen -  olive trees burned down, winter on the horizon making agriculture disadvantageous, former merchants and slaves with no money and a blockade on Meereen by surrounding regions. Jon has 19 decrepit castles on the wall that he has to refit and rebuild and get ready and he has no money, food or men to do this. What is Sansa’s more smarter and diplomatic tactics to deal with these issues?

What is his tax policy? How does he feel about crop rotation? How does he handle land disputes between two nobles, both of whom think that they should have the village, so they burn it down to establish their claim. This is the hard part of ruling be it in the middle ages or now. It’s not enough to be a good man to be an effective ruler. It’s complicated and it’s hard and I wanted to show that with repeated examples in my books with my kings and hand of the kings - the prime minister if you would - trying to rule. And whether it be Ned Stark or Tyrion Lannister or Tywin Lannister or Daenerys Targaryen or Cersei Lannister trying to deal with the real challenges that affect anyone trying to rule the 7K or even a city like Meereen and it’s hard. You know, we can all read the books or read history and say oh, so and so was stupid and made a lot of mistakes and look at all these stupid mistakes they make. But these kind of mistakes are always much more apparent in hind sight than when you are actually faced with the decision about, oh my God, what would I do in this situation. How do I resolve this thing? Do I do the moral thing? But what about  the political consequences of the moral thing? Do I do the pragmatic, cynical thing and kind of screw the people who are screwed by it? I mean, it is HARD. And I want to get to all of that - GRRM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJCb3xyWyAg

Where has Sansa dealt with the above issues to make a determination on how she would do better than Dany? Or even do better than Cersei for that matter?

Here is GRRM talking about how frustrating it is that he was not able to compare Daenerys and Cersei as rulers in ADWD:

His biggest lament in splitting A Feast for Crows from A Dance with Dragons is the parallels he was drawing between Cersei and Daenerys.  

Cersei and Daenerys are intended as parallel characters --each exploring  a different approach to how a woman would rule in a male dominated,  medieval-inspired fantasy world.

GRRM, SSM,  July 08, 2007  

George regrets that Cersei and Dany will not be contrasted directly.   He likes the extra breathing room to flesh out the characters. Bran  didn't have any chapters and Dany's ending was different. Now he likes  the way she ended. I think he actually may be doing more with Dany.  

Comic-Con (San Diego, CA; July 20-23)

Where has he talked about contrasting Dany and Sansa? Or Sansa and Cersei? Where are the parallel leadership arcs for Dany and Sansa or Jon and Sansa like there is for Jon and Dany in ADwD?

Jon Snow has negotiated a loan with the Iron Bank, Dany agrees for peace with Yunkai by marriage with Hizdahr and Sansa managed to persuade an eight year old to eat his dinner. How are they even compared at the same level?!

It took an entire book and Ned Stark losing his head for Sansa to realize that the Lannisters were not the good guys. Despite the Lannisters doing increasingly evil things like ordering Sansa’s pet wolf killed. Her younger siblings like Arya cottoned onto that in their first chapters. Sansa then thought that beautiful, charming Margaery was simply the best and the Tyrells ended up using her. She thought Dontos was a good guy. In the Vale, she is pushing the Maester to do what LF wants with respect to SweetRobin. How is she smarter than Jon, Dany or the rest of her siblings? It’s this weird changing of canon in the completely opposite direction. Take the least smart character among the youngsters in the books and make them the smartest in fanon.

I know the show is responsible a lot for pushing this piece of fanon, when Benioff, Weiss and Cogman stripped book Jon and Dany of their leadership arcs and tried to hand them off to Sansa to prop up their favorite character.

But what’s baffling is the so called asoiaf book experts writing about stupid Jon and smart Sansa. About psychopathic assassin murder baby Arya and clever, measured leader Sansa, about ignorant, impulsive Dany and calm, compassionate, hope for the future Sansa. The thing is, no one knows on what basis and metrics they come to this conclusion. It just is. There are no detailed essays comparing Jon and Sansa’s leadership arcs, or Dany and Sansa’s arc of being rulers. But Sansa is still somehow more intelligent and diplomatic.

It’s also connected to this rather sexist strand of thought that only women who wield soft power are smart and level-headed. Tyrion is the only male character allowed to be smart and women who wield hard power like Dany or gnc characters like Arya and Brienne are impulsive, arrogant and ignorant.

In some ways I can see why this has happened. A lot of fandom want Sansa to be special in some way and have an important role to play. And since her narrative story arc is with Littlefinger, she is assigned to be the SMART one. But to be special, she has to be the only smart character.

Plus, Sansa has progressed the least in her arc compared to her peers. She’s a blank slate on whom her fans can project their desires and wishes for her character. The show did something similar - only D&D were too lazy to come up with something original and gave her Jeyne Poole’s story.

But still, there has to be a basis for such statements about the book characters.  It’s not just enough to keep repeating that Sansa is the smartest ever - like ultimate hacks D&D did on the badly written garbage show did. They were rightly laughed at for their ‘Sansa is the cleverest person’ dialogue. But for some reason such statements are accepted for the book version.

The books are well written with gradual character development. Surely, if Sansa is smarter than Jon and Dany we should read that in the books? That this fanon has literally become canon despite not having any basis at all in the books is one of the most frustrating aspects of asoiaf fandom.

[mkstrigidae]

I wish you'd write Southern belle Sansa (not sure where Jon comes in but you make the rules haha)

ANON I LIVE IN THE SOUTH DON'T TEMPT ME

Seriously tho, I would probably write like, modern southern belle Sansa because i'm fairly certain I have MET modern southern belle Sansa. There would be church services and cotillion, shit tons of sweet tea, everyone wears lily pulitzer and pearls, and of COURSE Sansa goes to the Kentucky Derby dressed to the nines. The biggest scandal in town is when the pastor at the local church gets divorced. Jon's family just moved below the mason-dixon line, he's extremely New England and grumpy about it, and Sansa's tasked with showing him around and helping him acclimate. She tells him to bring a toboggan to a party at one point, and jon has no fucking clue why she expects him to do THAT (in the south, toboggan = hat, in the north, toboggan = sled), and introduces him to the vinegar-based v. tomato-based barbecue debate. Jon initially thinks she's kind of an airhead, based on her accent and how she dresses, but she pretty quickly whips him into shape.

The other version of Southern!Starks would be having the Starks be a family from the Appalachians, which i think fits their vibe more. Sansa dreams of going to school in Charleston or Chapel Hill or something- of getting out of middle of nowhere Appalachia (Even though it's probably not middle of nowhere- the Starks seem like they'd settle around Asheville where Ned's like, a city councilman or something), and eventually makes it happen.

She probably goes to UNC Chapel Hill (god bless bc the parking there is an absolute nightmare) or Duke, joins a sorority, and then moves to Charleston for her happily ever after, where she starts dating resident little shit Joffrey. Everything kind of goes sideways, there's probably a church-related scandal involved somewhere, and sansa ends up WILDLY homesick, missing snow and family and flannels, and ends up quitting her fancy job to move back home to Asheville, where she runs into Jon Snow, who is an old friend of Robb's, and who probably works for the Appalachian Regional Commission or something equally noble.

Sansa's still a bit gun shy about making new friends after Charleston, but she remembers Jon coming over to their house to hang out with Robb, and they start spending time together when Sansa (who is currently between jobs) offers to help watch Ghost during the day. They end up going hiking together a few times, and Sansa gets snowed in at his cabin at one point (of COURSE bc this is fanfic we're talking about), and Sansa seems like she would thrive in Asheville bc it's very artsy and adorable and progressive, and she knits her own really cute (and warm) hats and scarves to wear in the winter. They probably go to MerleFest together.

in both versions, Cersei Lannister says 'Bless her heart' after almost every sentence.

Send me an anonymous ask completing the sentence “I wish you would write a fic where…”