#( i know a lot of people don't like s3 because it's this sort of brokeness between them )

[genericpuff]

I'm honestly amazed by how well you can imitate the LO S3 art style! Have you always been good at this sort of thing or is it a skill you developed due to your work as a tattoo artist?

ahhh thank you, but ima let you in on a little trade secret -

it's literally just referencing LMAO which is a valuable skillset to have! but one that I think a lot of folks tend to overlook because they think "learning to draw" means "I need to be able to draw everything perfectly from imagination!" Which sure, learning how to draw things without needing references might be cool, but it's ultimately not the sole defining feature of a "good artist" and I think there's frankly way too much emphasis put on "drawing without references" these days because it creates this unrealistic expectation of what an artist is. Referencing is part of the process! It's important! And it's a valuable skill to have so that you can actually grow your skills beyond your own limits! Referencing is as important to the process of creating art as research is to the process of writing, you can only produce so much new stuff if you're not taking in new stuff alongside it.

Though I use this skill a lot in tattooing as well, it's mostly rooted in my animation schooling which broke me out of the habit of drawing purely from imagination and taught me how to properly reference other material for educational purposes.

And I'm sure there are people in audience right now gasping at the fact that I simply cropped a bunch of different shots of Minthe from S3 and rearranged them like some surgical madman playing with body parts-

-but this is like, the actual majority of the process when it comes to learning other art styles and this process is taught as a skill in a lot of art schools because it forces you to draw what's there rather than what you think is there. This is the basis of master studies, to learn the techniques of other artists by trying to mimic them as closely as possible. Don't know what tools that artist used specifically? Try to recreate the work anyways with your best guess. Even if you only get close but not perfect, you'll still likely learn a lot along the way and may even develop some brand NEW techniques that weren't present in the original work you're studying from.

Imagination is necessary to the creative process, but it's only part of that process, you can't suddenly learn how to draw the way other artists draw through imagination alone because your imagination is limited purely by your own lived experiences. Our brains don't come pre-installed with these skills, they can't just magically unlock the capability to "do the thing". Just like how we have to learn to follow recipes as a means to becoming a baker or learn to read the alphabet to learn how to read and write, we have to learn how to draw what we see and reference the material around us if we truly want to expand our own innermost knowledge which will allow us to draw from imagination.

Here are some other examples of studies I've done, such as my attempts to learn the art style of The Doctor Foxglove Show:

As well as a background study from S1 of LO:

And of course here are a handful of the shitloads of studies I've done to try and "figure out" how to draw Hades and Persephone from S1 of LO:

Aaaand just for the fun of it, here are some completely non-LO studies, like the ones I did of Kazuma Koda's background work and Akihiko Yoshida's character designs for Nier: Automata:

And this sorta rotoscoped ??? animatic of Mitsuhiro doing the opening jig for Still Feel by Half Alive which is 100% not done and probably never will be LOL

I'm always progressively doing studies of both LO and other media in this way so that I can update my knowledge and continue to improve my skillset.

Though, despite my best efforts to mimic the original creator's style, works like Rekindled will always have my own stylizations present, as that's just an inevitable consequence of it being made by myself and Banshriek (and the fact that we just refuse to draw worse to look more like LO because jfc so much of LO's original art, even the stuff we love, is rooted in Rachel's trial and errors lmao), but that's a feature, not a bug :') <3

So the answer is yes, the Minthe S3 redraw was done through skills I developed over time, though not necessarily through tattooing, simply through learning how to actually practice properly beyond "drawing a lot". And you can too! Draw lots, but also remember that your brain isn't naturally just going to "get better" at whatever you're trying to achieve just because you really want to achieve it. I try to avoid the mantra of "just practice" because it oversimplifies what's truly necessary to learning - having something to learn from outside of your own imagination. If you don't learn how to practice properly, then you'll just wind up repeating the same mistakes and reinforcing the same bad habits over and over again.

All that's to say, if you want to learn how to draw like a certain artist, try and recreate their art for yourself ;0 (but like also please for the love of god remember that it's for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES, I shouldn't have to tell y'all not to copy directly off other artists' work for your own because that's just deadass stealing lmao) I know this enters the ethical dilemma of tracing, and whether or not it's a "valid" way to learn, but there's a lot of virtue in learning through referencing other artists and building new skills through them. I'm sure folks will argue that it's a 'crutch' or 'training wheels', but that's all often being touted from the perspective that crutches and training wheels... are automatically bad things and aren't meant to help people ?

Like obviously if you want to create your own thing that isn't purely "living in the shadow" of the works that inspired you, you WILL have to make that leap into the unknown. But that leap's a lot less scary to make when you have a parachute.

[thestrangestthing89]

Kind of funny how few one-on-one scenes Mike and El have with each other. The leak of their S5 moment is likely the last one-on-one scene with them, at least for a while since they follow a pattern.

S1 - They spend 1 day in Mike's house together where Mike gives her a tour and then his mother comes home. He finds out she has superpowers and is tied to Will. This is not only one of the few times they are alone but it's one of the few conversations they have that isn't about Will. And considering it's about a La-Z-Boy I wouldn't consider that a win. Every other scene with them involves someone else around, usually Dustin and Lucas. They talk by the train tracks but Dustin and Lucas are a short way in front of them. The end of the season they have another moment one-on-one (with Dustin and Lucas close by) about the Snow Ball and Nancy and they kiss. S2 - El spies on Mike and Mike is sort of aware of it but it's really only her that knows so it's not really a one-on-one moment since they aren't both conscious of it and they aren't talking. They don't interact again until the end of the season. Their reunion is in front of everyone. El tries to kiss him but Hopper stops her. They later go to the Snow Ball together. Again, there are people around. S3 - They make out in the beginning of the season and Hopper is there and mad about it. It's implied they were alone for a month in the cabin and everyone is bothered by this. It's not a good thing. They have one conversation over the phone and El knows Mike is lying and Hopper and Karen are involved in this interaction so not exactly a private moment for them. They spend most of the season apart or they are together with the group. They talk at the supermarket when she gets injured where Mike confuses her like he did in S1 before he kissed her. It's a chaotic moment that gets interrupted by Dustin and El has no idea what he's talking about. Their next moment with just the two of them is when El and the Byers are moving out and El decides they are getting back together. Mike doesn't participate much in this conversation because El is now confusing him. S4 - El is somewhere else for 6 months where it's implied they wrote letters but El isn't happy with those letters and it seems like there is maybe 1 letter a month from Mike. And they are pretty basic letters judging by El's unhappiness and the v.o. letter we hear. Mike and El have one scene together just them and it's a fight. They are separated the rest of the season. They reunite and attempt to have a conversation at the pizza place but get interrupted because there is a lot going on and this isn't private. So following this pattern... Mike and El will interact briefly in the beginning of the season, be separated for the middle of it, and then reunite with the rest of the group at the end. The first season they separate because of a fight, the second because El runs away, the third because they broke up, and the fourth because they fought, broke up, and El ran away. I am positive that Mike and El are already broken up at the end of S4 even if we haven't gotten confirmation of this. I suspect that that leaked scene is more about them re-establishing some kind of friendship. I think it's plausible that they drift apart a bit during a time jump considering how bad their communicating is and how sick of each other they are at the end of S4. So I think this scene is them starting to talk and trust each other again, and then them spending the middle portion of the season apart like always. And reuniting to actually work together at the end of the season. This show has never spent much time developing a deep relationship with these two so I don't think they would suddenly start now. I think this would just be the start of a new friendship for them. And from what we know of filming so far, El isn't with Mike and Will's group. The characters tend to separate into smaller groups for most of the season and then unite at the end. It seems like El is with Lucas, Dustin, Max, Erica. At least from what we have seen so far. I would be surprised if Mike and El were suddenly spending all this time together. There isn't suddenly a need for it in the final season when there is so much else to cover.

Most of their moments together aren't private. There is always someone else around and their moments lack intimacy. Most of the couples on the show do have more private moments when other people are around - Mike and Will's conversation in the van about the painting, Nancy and Jonathan getting together at Murray's, Hopper and Joyce flirting when they are at the mayors house. It's a horror movie so there aren't going to be cutesy moments that seem like they are out of a rom com. There is going to be tension at least around them. But Mike and El's moment are always full of fighting, miscommunication (they did not reach an understanding in the train track scene in S1. El proved she didn't get it in S4), or El running away shortly afterwards. The tension comes from them not outside of them. I think this scene in S5 could be different than this because they already fought at the end of the season - they aren't talking and are rolling their eyes at each other. They are broken up or at the very least neither of them cares about this relationship enough to fix it. Which is why I think it's likely it could be them establishing a genuine friendship for the first time. Like the train tracks in S1 but with them both actually reaching an understanding this time and listening to each other. They got some space over a jump and now can talk. But it's also just not realistic for them to suddenly be BFFs just after this so it does make sense that they still spend some time apart but I think we could get a moment at the end where the two of them are actually working together (perhaps to help Will? since that seems to be the thing that unites them.) I do think it's also likely at some point in the beginning of the season that the younger kids are all together. So I think we may get Mike and Will joining the El/Lucas/Max/Dustin/Erica group at some point before the whole group reunites.

[all-pacas]

That "it was just me you couldn't love" moment is so funny when you think about it lol. She is literally talking to him like they are exes who broke up because house was emotionally cheating on her with a new girl while being married. This also puts in perspective (for both us and cameron) that how little she knew him as a person untill then. Cameron fully thought her date was gonna be all romance and house confessing how in love he is when it was farthest from what happened(again agree with you that house might have entertained the idea untill she went all freud on him). He literally goes back to staring at an old photograph of stacy after that date( Ironically, if she had found that photo in his drawer, I think it would have solidified her perspective of well-adjusted pre infarction house because there is no way a house similar to current house holds onto such nostalgic things). And I love that all these revelations doesn't make her crush magically disappear. Cameron still cares for house, she gets worried about him from time to time, she still has hots for him. But by the time she reaches s3, she won't even write a vicodin prescription for him(something s1 cameron would have done). House has stopped being a mythical figure to her and she started to see his real self.

my delusional queen <3

Cameron… I don't actually want to make her sound nuts, because it's honestly a pretty normal and human thing to do. But she absolutely over-read and over-interpreted House: he was nice to her, he did care about her, she wasn't wrong to see something there, but she absolutely… took it to eleven. It was just me you couldn't love is so funny of her, because now she's suddenly under reading him, acting like he was never caring or interested at all.

In a lot of ways, I think Cameron is actually remarkably good at reading House, and in a lot of interesting ways, at that. I don't think it's a huge surprise to anyone that House has a Facade, that a lot of his outward personality is an Act — which isn't the same as saying it's fake — but where most people are satisfied with dealing with House as he presents himself, with knowing he's hiding his feelings but being okay with it, Cameron… is not. She sees through the facade (in part because I think she and House are more alike than people give them credit for; they both want to understand people, to pick them apart, are capable of great empathy and understanding), and she never lets House get away with it: she is constantly poking at him, trying to get to the Real Him, not taking him at his word.

And so of course in her Crush Era she does it, and over does it, because she has an agenda, she has things she wants him to be. But she's also… not entirely wrong. She's not delusional. "You're holding me accountable for a mistake because you're in love with me" is a wild take, but "you have feelings for me and can't and won't deal with them like a normal person" is honestly not all that wrong. She fails to understand that willpower alone isn't going to be enough to get House to fall for her or want to date her (Huddy neutral here but: you can't deny he had a pretty blatant crush on Cuddy for years before he had even the slightest interest of pursuing it). On one level Cameron actually does see through House; in another she really doesn't understand him.

The S3 white knighting is fascinating for that same reason: when she finds out Cuddy and Wilson lied to House about curing his patient, she's furious, she's protective, she's threatening them both. She spends several episodes sort of… coddling House, trying to understand him, reading deep, deep meaning into his carpet replacement and power play with Cuddy — and, well. House really didn't mind that Cuddy and Wilson lied to him (if anything, he found it kind of amusing when he found out). The carpet thing did bug him, but it was also a fun excuse to fuck around with Cuddy. Cameron sees through House, but she sort of… interprets him as more hurt and vulnerable than he usually is.

And she does grow out of it! She absolutely stops idealizing him, she stops defending him — I think Tritter basically killed the last fragments of that protective arc. In S1's Detox she's literally the only one saying House is fine and not addicted to drugs and knows what he's doing; by S3 she's pretty over that. By S4 it's even more striking: she's teasing House, not in a flirting way but in a genuine one. Betting Cole will punch him and trying to help Cole along the way, delighting in watching Chase shut House down: it's not antagonistic, obviously she's still way over-invested in House, but she's no longer looking up at him all starry-eyed. She's no longer spending hours trying to read and understand him, she's just reacting to him normally, without an agenda.

[nightfall-1409]

I've long held the believe that what Cody was going through in S2:E3 of the Bad Batch was the result of cognitive dissonance, of specifically attempting to justify the actions he committed while the chip was fully active (It weakens/slowly loses power over time is the general understanding).

We see him mentally working through it, in a way that's very raw. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe that he was attempting to probe Crosshair in that episode about ultimately leaving the Empire, asking about clones deserting as he did... but on the other hand, what would leaving have meant?

It would have meant that everything they did to secure the Empire's safety, the actions that Cody still thinks he did of his own volition, up to and including the massacre of the Jedi, the hostile takeover of CIS planets, and the starting of resistance from former allies like Saw Gerrera.

None of the clones in the Empire know about the Chip. That knowledge is tightly controlled and constrained. Only Rex and those in his network actually know about it.

Cody, and other clones like him, stay out of a sort of paralysis. If they leave now, what was the point of everything else? If they leave now, what was the point of all of the most horrendous things they did under the control of the chip. Especially for those closest to the Jedi, people who liked them, respected them, cared about them and their safety. In a flick of a switch in their minds they decided to kill them all and that was that.

Even though he was likely already considering it, he was walking us through these exact thoughts, when he was talking to the governor of the Separatist planet in S2:E3. No one else had to die. They could have peace. Everyone who had died up to that point didn't have to have died for nothing. The war could be over, and even though they'd be rebuilding without a lot of people, they'd still be rebuilding for something all those dead had believed in— a peaceful and secure galaxy. Cody believed that he could do that. He tried to make the two ideas sit side by side in his head until the idea broke.

So much for peace. And she was killed, her body hung up in the street, because the dead didn't die for a greater purpose, for peace, for the living to have another chance. They died for power, and a lot more people were going to die as well. They died for the opposite of everything Cody and the clones were supposed to stand for.

Cody ultimately left. He deserted. It broke the dissonance. Actions have consequences, they make their own choices (he THINKS) and they have to live with them.

Which, of course, leads me to Wolffe in S3:E7

Wolffe is another Commander in a very similar position to Cody. He was close to General Koon, believed in him, trusted him. His life mattered to General Koon, and the lengths his General went to in the war, undoubtedly, left a huge impact on Wolffe and his men.

And they killed him, without warning, at the switch of a button. Three years of trust and mutual respect and defending each other to the end, gone in a fiery explosion mid-combat. He holds to some degree that the Jedi must have betrayed the clones at some point to deserve what happened...but he also fears, that they'll come for revenge.

If Wolffe cedes to Rex's point, that what the Empire is doing is wrong, that everything that has happened since the end of the war (and of course, just before the end) was for nothing, that everyone who died both in the war and after it was not for the good of the galaxy and what they thought they were all fighting for...

What is Wolffe even left with? I think somehow even less than Cody is. Cody left a few months into the new Empire— before it was revealed to everyone in the Galaxy that the Empire had destroyed Kamino in an orbital bombardment (and the clones that were the ones to destroy it all say they don't know why they actually did it). Wolffe is still a loyal soldier to the Empire after it's revealed that the Empire destroyed Kamino, after they revealed that they're replacing the clones with Stormtroopers because of the clones' supposed 'obedience' to bad commands... He doubled down, where Cody's cognitive dissonance broke.

Wolffe still believes that this was all for something, still believes that the Empire isn't throwing them away, still trusts them that the Empire's going to treat the clones fairly. He has to keep believing the Empire's trying to do what's best, to bring peace and security to things. If he doesn't, then what is he admitting about himself?

Wolffe, when we see him down the line in Rebels, is a shadow of the Commander we see here. He has a panic attack over Jedi coming to get their revenge. Rex has to calm him down by reminding him that the Jedi didn't actually betray them. He works behind Rex's back repeatedly, to make sure he doesn't get Ahsoka's messages, to report the Jedi (Kanan and Ezra) to the Empire, and apparently he reports into the Empire so often that the Imperial troopers who got his message said he was just a crazy old clone.

I don't think Wolffe ever gets out. I don't think Wolffe can ever face what he was part of in full. I think he's forced to Retire at some point soon, and I think Rex and Gregor decide that they're all they have left, and decide to move past what was done. They're brothers in arms, and in this, and they're going to be the only ones left at the end.

He doesn't join the Rebellion until the Empire tries to kill him explicitly, in Rebels.

[raayllum]

I have a question, in good faith. I just answered a question about my opinion of Season 4, and a big reason I give it a 7.5 out of 10 is that they broke the main couple up off screening a graphic novel.

Now I didn’t go into detail, but this probably takes off a whole point for me, because I don’t feel like we should have to read extra material to understand what’s happening in the main plot line. Is this the first time we’ve ever had to read extra material not for bonus information but an understanding of the main story?

Hello, yes, I love answering questions in good faith. Can't promise that I'll have a satisfactory answer, but hopefully I can provide a not overly long one, for once!

Through the Moon (the graphic novel of which you speak) is the only supplementary material (thus far) that's been released that isn't a prequel, so in that vein, I'd say yes. The graphic novel does explain that Rayla left (and shows her leaving) before the 'reveal' drop at the end of 4x01. She left approximately a month and a half after S3, so right around / on Callum's birthday (which, we didn't know it was his birthday in the graphic novel itself, so that's almost undoubtedly something that got added to S4 for Callum&Viren foils and general heartbreak reasons).

However, to me, and this also due to having friends who watch the show casually, or have not read the graphic novel Through The Moon (TTM)... I genuinely do not think you need to read it unless you don't want Rayla leaving to have been a 'surprise' (which some people like to know spoilers ahead of time, which is fair). Given that there's a timeskip and an arc wrap up (and that we actually got to see them be a cute couple in S3, not just at the last minute) some sort of shift was probably to be expected. All the plot context TTM is given pretty early on in S4, but there are also fun little connections to make as you go on rewatches, for example:

4x01 reveals that Rayla is not only not at the castle, but MIA, and that the boys don't know if she's alive/okay. The context from TTM is that her risk taking decisions were already a concern for him, which can probably be deduced from the show's canon anyway, given that he jumped off a mountain for her.

4x01 and 4x02 also show that rather than being mostly curious about unknown things like before, they actively make him agitated/anxious (Soren's secret keeping, the blank book, trying to decipher the mirror). TTM adds context to this in that Rayla told him she would let him come with her, and then went back on that promise, but canon already makes this clear in 4x01 with "I don't even know if she's alive"; he has no answers about Rayla. That is also undoubtedly one of the reasons he's agitated. However, while her lie is insult to injury, the show never brings it up as a reason he's mad at her; it was always her extended absence: "So you disappeared for two years for no reason at all?" / "Well, maybe you might know that if you'd been here the last two years." Again: the lie isn't an actual thorn in his side (seemingly) so it's a thing from TTM that is omitted, because it isn't emotionally relevant.

Then she shows up and we learn, specifically, that she went to hunt down Viren. Rayla has always been a paranoid ("Sooner or later, we're going to run into someone from 1x06, "There's danger coming, I know it" from 2x01) person with an independent streak. Rayla leaving to kill Viren because she doubts her own abilities, when she spends most of the first few seasons doubting them (particularly in S1 and S3) and fearing failure ("You let him live but killed us all") is also very in character. One of my favourite little details is that Callum struggles to say Viren's name at all ("It's something Lord -- the previous high mage left behind") until Rayla shows up ("So you must have found Viren, huh? Was he dead after all?") because that trauma - Rayla was so sure that she failed that she couldn't trust they were safe - is so intertwined.

A lot of S2, as well, spent hammering in the fact she didn't want to lose Callum (to Soren and Claudia, to his pursuit of magic, to dark magic, to death). Her leaving him behind to protect him is not something that's a big logic leap to make, I think. After all: "It's okay, Callum. I'm not asking you to come with me. Protecting that dragon doesn't just feel like the right thing to do, it feels like the right thing for me to do" (2x07) and "But... I'm not going with you. You and Ezran should take Zym. But I can't leave" (3x08) and her almost confession last but not least: "Callum please, come back! You've got to stay with me [...] I can't lose you like this, you mean too much to me" (2x09).

TTM adds context - the nightmares about Viren ruining the life she still had, and her and Callum's increasing mutual fear of losing each other. They quite honestly don't even break up. Now, I don't think things would've gone well if Callum had gone with her (relationship wise) given their differing priorities in TTM and also how they show love (for Rayla it's protection, for Callum it's togetherness), but the last conversation they actually have in TTM is

Now, I'm not exactly expecting a casual reviewer to remember and notice all the tiny things, but I am expecting them to remember major plot points, specifically that Rayla really struggles with letting people help her (1x06 and 3x04 both leading to disasters with Zym being in danger because of it) because she doesn't feel like she deserves it, and that she has a tendency to be overly self sacrificial (too many episodes to count).

Her trying to save the dragon in S2 was heroic, yes, but also stood out to me specifically as "This tendency of risking herself is going to be something that she and Callum have to confront and work through, because it is diametrically opposed to them functioning as a long term couple/team". When she wants to stay behind and die for her parents mistakes in S3, the only reason she doesn't stick with that is because she learns that they didn't run, not that she didn't have to die even if they had. So something like this, even if not in so dramatic a way was something that I'd been expecting for a few years now. S4 and Callum's anger at her abandonment is the first time we've seen this tendency be solely in a negative light, in a lot of ways, which is really exciting, and I don't know how much they'll get back together until Rayla has had the epiphanies she needs to.

The biggest thing to me that TTM adds to S4 is that Callum isn't just upset at Rayla for leaving him, but that he's mad at her for leaving without him, specifically. He wanted to go with her, he didn't totally believe in the mission but he wanted to keep her safe, citing "I let you go into the Moon Nexus alone" (earlier in the graphic novel, and not without protest) "and I knew right away I made the biggest mistake of my life. I could have lost you." But again, I expect this sentiment to be something that is far more readily explored in S5, and is also something you can kinda piece together given how often he runs after her in the first three seasons, and him reading what's implied in show and confirmed through TTM to be her goodbye letter because she didn't think she was coming back (4x01 credits):

TDP official also in the lead up to S4 released the goodbye letter, which we'd never read before, and it broke all of our hearts.

TLDR; to me, TTM isn't necessary unless you want a deeper read on the characters. I expect S5 to give them more of a chance to talk and perhaps explain their own actions in S4 more (again, reaffirming that fear of losing each other, which was the root of his anger and of her leaving) but I don't think TTM is necessary unless you want the specifics. All you need to know is that Rayla left to hunt down Viren and Callum has been very sad about it since. You get all of that within the first couple of episodes. The biggest question that TTM raises that S4 doesn't answer is, if she was so dead set on her mission, how and why did she convince herself it was okay to come back at all, but again: I think S5/S6 will have the answers on that.

[chirpsythismorning]

THIS!!!

THIS is why the Duffers had to end s4 in a way where a majority of the audience read El and Mike as endgame and byler as this impossibility, on a basic level initially. And it's because as time goes on, they're going to start questioning that idea with all the time they have on their hands until s5 premieres.

I got an ask about this a while back, where an anon insisted they should be doing more to convey outside of the show pre-s5, like in promo, that this is very obviously a love triangle going on between El/Mike/Will. But I disagree.

Fans having 2 or so years to confront byler on their own, is something a lot more impactful than it simply being handed to them, only for them to wait 2 years for something they are entirely prepared for.

The show wasn't intended to be watched by the majority, in the same way bylers watch it now, after a year of analysis. Hell, even bylers thought all hope was lost initially post-vol 2. But as time went on, that changed. Almost a year later and you'll find that a majority of bylers are 100% confident in endgame and there are hundreds of thousands starting to subscribe to it, after all of the dozens of fans that took the leap to consider it during the hiatus thus far, reading between the lines.

And now we're seeing something similar happen to casual fans.

The truth is, casual fans slowly but surely coming to this realization on their own, is essential.

There is a huge trend rn of casual fans joining the sub on Reddit, and while that in and of itself has been fairly constant since the show premiered, what we see occurring for the first time is a lot of these same casual fans having no bias in regards to devotion to any certain pairings.

Which means a lot of them are coming on there to make very common sense assessments. They're not coming to start drama or ship wars. They are simply asking questions about what other fans think about Mike/El sort of regressing since s3 or how it just makes no sense to focus so much on Will's feelings for Mike in the second to last season if it's not leading up to something, otherwise that would be cruel. And how basically those two details alone, together, make a lot of sense to be setting up for byler as a possibility in s5.

Most of them aren't even insinuating that byler is the obvious direction the Duffers are going, they are literally just going to reddit for other fans thoughts and feelings about the direction the duffers are going with the story, from a genuine place.

And what they're being met with is the same handful of hardcore milkvans, latching onto the only platform left that treats milkvan as the default, with arguments like 'Mike and El never broke up in s4 so idk where you got that from. I'm tired of having this same conversation over and over.' or 'It's very obvious the duffers are setting up for milkvan endgame. like it's so obvious i don't know why you would even speculate otherwise. you're probably just an undercover byler' and it's like???? Is it that obvious?

Is it that obvious if you're having to have this conversation daily with casual fans just coming here to have genuine discussions with other fans? I honestly don't think it's that obvious if the only people devoted to the romantic pairing you are, are those that have been devoted to them since day one and haven't allowed themselves to think critically beyond that rose tinted lens.

So many casual fans aren't homophobic nor latched onto a fictional ship merely bc they have cornered themselves bc they refuse to acknowledge they might have been wrong about something. Most of them are willing to look behind the curtain, with enough time to let it actually settle. ESPECIALLY when they're seeing subtle byler here and there, causing them to go... wait? Could it be?...

This is why over the next year or so leading up to s5, we're arguably going to see more people come to this realization on their own.

What took us on tumblr a matter of a few weeks/months, is going to take the ga 2 or so years. And so by the time s5 comes around, and we actually start getting the show being more obvious with promo, like with s4 (posters, etc.) multiplied by 100.

And that's when they'll be like holy shit is this actually happening? And they'll actually be looking forward to it.

Not to say that by the time s5 premieres, the entire ga will be caught up and ready, BUT those that are entering these spaces with common sense throughout hiatus, and are willing to look behind the curtain, yes I think they will come into the final season being ready for anything.

Devoted milkvans on the other hand....

The most interesting comments from the reddit post.

[cantalooprat]

Lovely Allergen

What I Liked

the vaguely moumou-like atmosphere it has, i think it's a mix of the way the setting is described---the details of the song household, their school, the smattering of friends, lin rong's restaurant, cotton candy and orange...it just sketches out this very vivid picture of their daily life and how it shaped song yu and yue shizhi into who they are, and i rly liked that! it makes the whole story feel more alive

the food descriptions!!!!! reading this in the middle of the night is like... dang im getting hungry just reading abt it!! war flashbacks to kdrama eating scenes!!!

as usual, i have to mention the ad ost lmao all 3 seasons have such lovely theme songs

song yu with the tags slapped onto him: "cold love interest" "doting love interest" "devoted love interest"

yue zhishi: "cute protagonist" "weak protagonist"

but also they're such a deep, interesting spin on the whole "cute/weak shou" and "cold doting gong" archetype, zhichu rly rly rly writes so well, i felt it even from yybl (but also both translators for yybl n kagmy r both rly rly good as well, which contributes a lot to the reading experience). the way song yu is so cold and detached not just bc "his personality is like that" but bc he has to repress his feelings for yue zhishi, and how he's even losing sleep over it, but he won't ever say anything out loud bc he knows it's wrong... how yue zhishi is so so dependent on him, oblivious to his own feelings, how the initiative has to come from yue zhishi and yet song yu takes it upon himself to be responsible for "leading his little brother astray" but also yue zhishi won't let him take that responsibility alone!! the way i wanted them to be happy because both of them really deserve that happiness... sigh

there r just so many small moments that it's hard to describe in one piece. song yu and yue zhishi's relationship is built upon all of these small moments glittering like stardust, gathered up inside a crystal clear bottle. when exactly did they fall in love? these two probably don't even know it themselves, but before they realized it, the crystal bottle has been filled with so much glittering stardust, their precious memories etched on each fragment

the cute au where they meet for the first time but have long since fallen in love w each other from exchanging their letters, very wholesome very cute i even love its placement (2 chapters right before the very last extra) and how it ties in to the last extra... sigh again

i cried at the letter song yu wrote actually that entire sequence of them coming out to the parents broke my heart

the car scenes how can i not mention the car scenes, zhichu car scenes r absolutely 😔👌

as a whole, zhichu also writes with this... sort of hopeful tone. like, her version of reality is a very very gentle and hopeful one. she doesn't outright gloss over gay relationship as "gay marriage is legal now for plot convenience reasons" but she also treats it as like, something people will eventually accept. her books are honestly just very gentle and warm (even though kagmy has like this melancholic undertone throughout the text, which can't be avoided but also makes it a p heavy read despite the deceptive "slice of life childhood friend romance" plot)

also also that quote on the s3 ad banner art which is also a spoiler to the last sentence of the main story, which is also the reference of s1 theme song title...

What I Disliked

mmh not quite dislike and also i understand why it's like that but like... the slow burn truly was slow, like glacially slow until they confessed n then things went Wild

Notes

ngl part of the reason why i started kagmy is to use this absolutely gorgeous banner art from ad s3

tbh zhichu novels r always kinda heavy lmao she mentioned it too though, how there isn't a "sweet" tag bc it's not supposed to be a smooth-sailing fluffy novel

[brownbitchshit]

Listen...we are gonna get a s3 because the way Netflix is promotion the show, ofc we are. So given that we are getting S3, lemme make some deductions.

I don't think we are actually ready for S3. For starters it's going to be super dark. You know why? Let me explain

1. Simon-Wilhelm's initial relationship troubles are over. But honestly, the problems they had so far are not even remotely as serious as the problems they are going to face in the future. Young Royals s1&2 reminds me of Hunger Games trilogy. At first you only see District 11 and the games but eventually the world expands. Same for Young Royals. In s1 we only see Wilhelm's life in Hillerska apart from few scenes here and there. We know he is under pressure and he has lots of responsibility and a freaking legacy on his shoulder. But we only realize how terrible his pressures are in S2. We see it's not only his mom that he has to fight against, it's a freaking institution that already is planning to replace him with a sex offender. I bet in S3 we'll get the 360° view of what the life of a Crown Prince actually consists of. How gigantic his world is and how much scrutiny he is actually under. I think even Wilhelm will realize how big of a role he has not only as a Crown Prince but also as the first Queer Royal. Both Simon and Wilhelm are going to be under tremendous scrutiny in the next season.

2. In s1&2, Simon never had to give up who he is to be with Wilhelm. Despite all the relationship troubles they faced, Simon never had an existential crisis. But being the boyfriend of the Crown Prince will mean his whole world is about to be upside down. For someone as proud and righteous as Simon, that can be very damaging. And it also creates lots of scope for conflicts. Simon will have to give up everything he stands for to be with Wilhelm and that will either break them up (which is unlikely in S3 I think) or will break him.

3. Simon will most likely get the 'Meghan Markle' treatment from the media. Lisa often has referenced Prince Harry's story as her research. So I think it'll be very fitting that she will show Simon to be treated the way Meghan Markle was. He definitely fits the boxes too. They both are immigrants (well Simon is not but Swedish people might consider him as one due to his ethnicity),POC, raised by single mothers, troubled fathers. In Simon's case he also has the disadvantage of being both a man and belonging in a middle class family and not to forget there is still the drug thing looming over his head. So I think we will actually see Simon having mental health issues the way Wilhelm had in s1&2. And what scares me is that Wilhelm will be oblivious to Simon's struggles since he will probably be on cloud 9 because of Simon and for finally living his truth. But for Simon it might be too much. Or maybe Wilhelm will realize how hard it is to love someone in his position.

4. The main conflict in S3 ,I think will be again something external that might end up separating our Wilmon in the end. But I think this time it won't be a misunderstanding between them. My bet is that either Simon will be in a some sort of dangerous position due to the public scrutiny (probably a hate crime) or his mental health will be shambles due to the 'Meghan Markle' treatment and in either case Wilhelm will decide to let go Simon and break up with him against Simon's wishes, probably by using cruel methods. It will parallel to s1 when Simon broke up with him to preserve his self respect and in S3 Wilhelm will break up with him to protect him. They will both end up being heartbroken and Simon will misunderstand Wilhelm while Wilhelm will be devasted but happy to let Simon go to keep him safe.

I am a fan of angst so I will probably be dead if my predictions come true but also happy because I need more seasons of these and I wanna see them aged up and then be endgame. Again knowing Lisa, probably all of our predictions will be null and void. But that's what I imagine will happen anyway.

[memes-saved-me]

Billy Hargrove and implied Queerness

First off this is focusing on his scenes without Steve because we've all seen those and....they're pretty homoerotic to say the least so I will be bringing your attention to the other factors which lead people to believe Billy is gay or interested in men and not so much women. This isn't very indepth but more surface level observations I've made and seen others make.

(TW: Homophobia and slurs discussed)

Season 2

The first scene we get of Billy he is instantly sexualised by those around him. Tina and Vicki taking interest in him based on his looks while Carol watches on rather unamused. This sets a trend for his character and his relationship with his looks and body, but more importantly how he uses it to his own advantage. Of course this was done to play into the 80s bad boy who all the high school girls fall for but what I'll explain later makes it much more interesting.

The next we see of Billy is with Max on their way home. During this scene he insults the looks of the high school girls, referring to them as cows. We then get a very interesting line "Yeah, we're stuck here and who's fault is that?" Which Max replies to with "Yours."

A response that instantly angers Billy to the point he demands she take responsibility for moving to Hawkins. A topic that has clearly been discussed before because Max's reaction implies this has happened before if not multiple times.

In Runaway Max, which isn't confirmed canon and contradicts a lot of stuff but, we are told that the reason they moved was because Billy was completely off the rails to the point he broke her friends arm. Now. Does that make sense in blaming who's fault the move was? If this is the case it is obviously Billy's fault so why does he keep saying it was her who caused this? She clearly liked being in California so why would she do something to make them move. Unless it was unintentional...

This heavily implies that there is an unspoken incident which involves them both. An incident which triggers such anger and recklessness in Billy to the point he almost runs over Mike, Lucas and Dustin because Max wouldn't say it was her fault. Many have then filled in this gap with Max accidentally telling either Neil or Susan about Billy and another boy, which would make sense with the information or lack of information we are given in canon about the reason they moved.

While at Tina's Halloween party we do not see Billy interact with a single girl. He is seen with Tommy and another boy who then approach Steve with him. It would make sense for girls to be drooling over him in this moment, trying to dance with him or following him inside but no. He makes a beeline for Steve and we do not see him for the rest of the party.

Now, I don't know about you but have you ever seen a teenage boy look less interested in his date? Not only is he not interacting with verbally but also physically. He then gets angry when she calls Max his sister and they drive off without a word. It's implied he is taking her home as he they were waiting for Max, meaning he was probably going to hook up with her but if he was wouldn't he act just a little nicer towards her?

I mentioned before that he is the archetype for 80s bad boy and the girls sure are falling, he just isn't catching them. This is the only time we see him interact with a women his age in a romantic way. If you could call this romantic at all.

When in trouble for letting Max run off while watching her, his response is that he doesn't have the time to go looking for her because he has a date, a date we never see or get the name of, this prompts his father to say the line "So that's why you've been staring at yourself in the mirror like some faggot..."

A line that then prompts Billy to snap and argue back after clearly wanting to get out of this situation as fast and smoothly as possible. Where else have we seen anger brought on by a topic? That's right in the car with Max. There is a trend of Billy reacting with anger to conversations or comments he finds personal or as some sort of attack. This is also when Neil becomes fully angry with Billy as seen in his rather shocked reaction at his response to that line.

This also continues the trend of Billy caring about his looks and using them as a shield of sorts, a shield that doesn't work against his father but everyone else he encounters.

Something to keep in mind, Billy is the only character to be called a homophobic slur by a parental figure other than Will. The character he mirrors in multiple ways including having the same full name William, as well as Will being heavily implied as gay or queer. Both of their father's use homophobic language against them, unlike any of the other characters in the show.

The next we see of him after the incident with Neil is also when we see him interacting with another women in a romantic sense. Karen. This is where his use of his looks and body fully come into play. He uses these assets to get information and affection out of Karen to make his father happy and avoid further punishment.

Now this is my own interpretation but Billy is used to using his body for positive attention and doesn't get that any other way. At no point in the series is he treated like a person other than in S3 by Max and Max only. Everyone else views him in an objectified manner or as a bad guy to avoid.

There is a clear resemblance between Karen and Billy's mother which I'll further discuss in the season 3 section but this leads me to believe he is subconsciously or even consciously wanting positive attention from a motherly figure, he just doesn't know any other way to achieve that.

However, it is very clear that flirting with Karen was an act as seen by the quite jarring juxtaposition of these two frames. The mask fully gone once by himself again. Meaning the only time we see him flirt with a women it isn't genuine at all.

Season 3

Now, continuing off the last point, there is countless girls practically drooling over Billy at the pool but he only accepts this attention from Karen. This exemplifies my theory that he doesn't know how to gain positive affection other than through flirting and well sex, but he only wants this attention from an older women who resembles his mother. Except, again he doesn't know any other way of gaining it. He hasn't had a strong positive female influence in his life since he was 10 years old and by the looks of it every motherly figure has treated him as eye candy and not a teenager crying for help.

He has Heather who is very much his age and flirts with him. Yet, he acts as if she isn't even there and goes straight over to Karen to flirt. The way he acts with Karen should be the way he would act with girls his age, flirting and making advances but we do not see a single example of this.

This part I find extremely interesting because it perfectly mirrors his interaction with Karen in season 2, except instead of dropping the mask he puts it on. The way he looks to his right as if she is sitting there as he practices what he is going to say to her is a clear example of his act coming into play as he prepares to meet up with her. His expression very similar to when he leaves the Wheeler home but it shifts to practice the way he is planning on talking to Karen. A complete reversal from their scene in season 2.

A rather reaching piece of symbolism could be that this also mirrors the way Neil cuts off Billy's date in season 2 as the Mindflayer is a literal representation of him being controlled by his father.

I also find it very interesting that he chooses to flirt with Karen very publicly and this might be reading a little too into it but it comes off as trying to uphold some sort of image. Another example of this is Max saying she hears Billy with girls in his room, something that sure is something he would do but when you put this with everything in this post it also comes off as him trying to prove something.

Another thing I find interesting is the way he acts around Karen, all smiles and friendly is very similar to that of the way he acts at dinner with Heather's parents. An act put on by the Mindflayer, just as he does when flirting with Karen. A mask used for underlying means and not what it shows on the surface.

Conclusion

This is all just my observation and he is not canonically gay or queer but the way he acts around women compared to Steve is a very interesting aspect to his character. If they truly intended for him to be this bad boy ladies man then they failed at presenting that.

One final thing, which I have posted about before is the fact Billy does not use homophobic language towards anyone. Even Steve does in season 1 so it would make sense for a teenage boy trying to upstage another teenage boy to use slurs and such to belittle and bully him. Except he doesn't.

I could write a full dissertation on Billy's implied queerness but a unorganised Tumblr post will have to do. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[pynkhues]

Where do you think Logan and Marica are relationship-wise by the end of S3? Are we to assume the romantic part is basically over, and it's now more of a mutually beneficial partnership than a traditional marriage? Given Kerry's presence and Marcia's seeming indifference to her, it makes me wonder. Or maybe she knows something the siblings and the audience doesn't re: Kerry and Logan.

I'm really curious about it too, actually.

This is a bit of an aside, but I am so fascinated about the show's decision to slowly shut us out of Logan's POV in s3, in no small part because I'm pretty sure it timed with Logan shutting both Kendall and Shiv out. It makes for a really compelling shift in terms of narrative power, and I think – arguably – makes the case for Kendall and Shiv being the characters with the true foot in the door of Logan's inner life.

Roman was undoubtedly the favourite child of s3, but the fact that we were never granted Logan's true POV during this season in the way we were in s1 and s2 I think backs up what Shiv said to Roman in the car in 3.09. Logan never truly took Roman seriously because he thought there was something wrong with him, whereas both Kendall and Shiv were genuinely weighed by Logan, and also have an emotional 'in' to him that Roman and Connor don't. We could speculate all day about why that is (although I do, as always, put forth the case that both Kendall and Shiv remind him of Rose), but alas, haha.

Not getting his POV though in the second half of s3 really shut us out of so many of Logan's interpersonal dynamics, and especially his respective relationships with Marcia and Kerry.

I'm actually inclined to think that neither Marcia nor Logan really know what their relationship is anymore, but that they're both clearly wounded. One of my favourite things about their dynamic is that I think they're both two extremely traumatised people who, out of necessity, have become ruthless survivors, and it was in that that they found a very real human connection. I really do think they were in love, but I also think Marcia was right when she told Logan at the end of 2.08 that he broke something by betraying her trust. I think she could've tolerated an affair, but not the partnership Logan tried to have with Rhea, and definitely not being shut out.

In that sense, I think the wound has been a gaping one, and her return to him in s3 is one of murky motivation. Yes, she wants to secure her financial future, and she certainly wants everyone around them to know that Logan fucked up, but I think she also genuinely circled being a partner to him again, first through floating the idea of exposing what Kendall had done at Shiv's wedding, and later through playing the face at Caroline's wedding while Logan schemed upstairs. Similarly, I think Logan wanted Marcia back – something I thought was loud in 2.10 in particular – but when she was cold, he likely retreated.

Logan doesn't like to face the ways that he's hurt people he loves – god, just think of the therapy session in 1.07 – and he tends to attack, then retreat, then pretend it never happened at all. I think what probably happened as a result was that Marcia and him circled each other after getting back together, but she was still wounded which made him self-defensive, and so he pursued a relationship on the side that was easy aka Kerry, and Marcia doesn't care because Kerry's sort of nothing.

Rhea was a threat because Rhea was a cockroach too. She knew how to climb up the cracks and survive the bombs. We haven't seen a lot of Kerry, but she seems young and opportunistic, and like the type of woman who takes Logan at his word (like how she thought he'd remember his uti meds – we even have the direct parallel there with how much Marcia protected him after his stroke), so I think Marcia probably thinks Kerry's not much of anything but a passing fancy to an old man.

So yeah – I think she and Logan remain unaddressed. I think Marcia's priority was in securing her financial future, and that of her children, and obviously Logan's priority was in the picture of her back at his side, but I do think there's something real between them. It's just the wounds of them are festering, both together and apart, and they're both waiting for the other to press a salve to it that they never will.

Or maybe a better metaphor – they're not finished, but the book of them is lying open between them, and both are playing blind.

[fencesandfrogs]

Hello I recently found out you have been watching a series of unfortunate events and I just. I have so much to say omg!! For now I will settle with, how are you liking the show and who/what are your favorite things about it rn?

eeeee yessss okay

i'd already seen s1 and part of s2 w my family, but i decided to rewatch from the beginning, bc, well.

yeah.

a series of unfortunate events were books i read as a child, like. y'know the way i read the bad begnning and then i'd just grab whichever were free and settle in for an hour or so of reading. like. just. picturing their covers reminds me of being in fifth grade and sitting in a chair to read. reading was so escapism for me that i hold all childhood book series close to my chest. (fun fact!: i broke up w someone over them once.) (/j it was complicated but they did technically play a part.)

(aside: i loved anything like that, and just...god i read the bad beginning so many times. i was obsessed w tragedy and so a book series where i didn't have to sit thru to find the bad bits? the punch of knowing that there was always another hit? no happy ending would stick? good shit.)

i'm on s3 rn? i watched the first half of the grim grotto, but the second episode ended up being too much, so a friend found a summary for me, but i haven't been in the Mood for it since then. i might pick it up tonight or tomorrow, we'll See.

i'm really liking the show! i think they managed to capture the tone of the books really, really well. like. damn. that's the way to do it.

y'know how the princess bride movie is completely different from the book? because the book is sarcastic and snippy and they couldn't make it fit a movie so they just cut it?

(aside ii: no shade on the princess bride movie. i love the book and the movie. but you have to understand they're two entirely disparate stories.)

but a tv show has time to do freezes and author speaking to you like that and the narration so a series of unfortunate events gets to breathe and it gets to be told the only way it could be told.

urgh it makes me want to scream into a pillow i'm so happy about how it got told. it just. it feels as much like reading the books did as it could, and that makes me so happy.

so yeah those r overall thoughts.

characterwise...

uhm this isn't characterwise i just want to pause and say i think they're doing a good job w the deaths. that's really hard to pull off in a children's show, but they're doing it. it's very impressive and netflix is really doing well w this series.

okay back to character thoughts.

i've liked most characters tbh. i think everyone is done really well.

count olaf doesn't fit with him in my head from the books, but not in a bad way. like the him-in-my-head was not going to work on tv i'm okay w that change. it's not even a change? it's just a subtle distinction.

i find the baudelaires are...hm.

i don't think of them in the same way i used to, and i know why. part of it is growing up, part of it is, well...

i'm not in the mood to bare my soul in a way you probably didn't expect from a short little ask, so i won't. i'll just say reflection on that part is a little bittersweet.

now you'll have to forgive me because i have a memory problem so names are not my strongsuit, nor is spelling, but i really like the snicket siblings! they're fans. and the um. the woman who made the new madame lulu. i liked her quite a lot.

the quagmire triplets r also favourites. i have a feeling that something i'm having thoughts about atm (wrt violet and what's-his-name's conversation about fires) is going to be resolved later, so i won't say what i think now, lest i invite people to comment/spoil things. but i'm a fan of the three of them. i dunno.

sibling relationships hit me in all sorts of ways.

something that hit me unexpectedly hard was violet's moment when klaus was hypnotized. her "i'm supposed to protect him" just.

violet my beloved.

aaaand i am of course having thoughts about sunny but wrt ep 2 of the grim grotto they went from normal thoughts i'd tell anyone to suddenly and intensely personal so i can't share them BUT know they are there and they are many.

ty for asking!! i love getting asks on main <3333

<3

[luxeberries]

'if some other girl had given me a thump before we met, would things have been different? like, if we were meeting together for the first time right now, part of me... thinks we would have made it.'

'remember the dream I told you about?... I left one part out...you were there. you've always been there'

i truly believe steve is just wishing for things in the past. it's interesting how he says 'i think if I hadn't been such an asshole only focused on my reputation we would have worked out' not 'i think we could be good now as the people we are now'.

it makes me think he's focusing on the past. he never says 'let's try again' or anything like that.

so, about the dream.

ever since they broke up, Steve's struggled with girls and dating. he goes on dates in s4, but they're not working out. he doesn't click with anyone. fact is, steve hasn't loved anyone as much as he loved nancy. (he got close with robin -'i guess I found someone who's a little better for me' - but she's gay and now they're Platonic).

i do this a lot - i sort of fixate on past relationships thinking its what I want but really we are just not the same people anymore and we're in different places in life. but i still put these people i loved in dreams because they're safe and i know them and no one else has come to match the love I had for them.

no one has matched what steve had with nancy. he can't imagine anyone else driving around a winnebago with him and six kids. it's easy to imagine nancy because, probably since before s2, he's been imagining nancy. but now they haven't been together for two years - we don't even know when they last had an actual conversation between s3&4 - nancy has been with Jonathan since s2 and Steve doesn't even know what nancy wants in life. steve's dream of having nancy with him is completely fictional. he's just a lonely kid who's always craved a big family to make up for the fact he's an only child and his parents are never around and not in love and it's easy to imagine nancy with him because she's safe and familiar and he can't imagine anyone else with him.

i do think steve wants to get back with nancy but i think he knows it's not going to happen and he's okay with that. i think he's just hung up on the best relationship he's ever had (which...the bar is low lmao). like I said above he never says he wants to try again, he just asks himself 'what if I was the person I am now back then?'. he's just lonely and nancy is familiar.

[all-pacas]

we know what the hospital rumor mill thinks about house, but what do they say about the fellows? especially after the entire hospital finds out that chase the flirt is hooking up with cameron the noble in supply closets?

I think we largely know what people's reputations are, thanks to Amber in 97 Seconds.

Foreman is considered House's protege, which is not a positive. We see in Kids that other doctors and Nurse Brenda find him entitled and annoying. We hear from Cuddy that he is unhireable. He's arrogant, he's unfriendly. He dated a nurse for a while in S3, and she broke up with him because he was a total ass (his romantic Valentine's Day present was "go to college in Boston"; when she was upset he had the all time killer "I am not taking you back if you act like this :(" line, to which Wendy had to point out bitch, I'm upset, I'm not begging for you). In general, Foreman's kinda… socially awkward. He's really good at playing the part, he knows how he's supposed to act, but it's kind of fake, you know? Not in Chase's suck up charm way, but in the way you can kind of tell Foreman doesn't mean it. He's also, uh, very good at malpractice? I mean, they all do it, it's unfair Foreman gets singled out. But he definitely gets caught more. He killed a woman. He ruined a Huntington's Trial. His malpractice is kind of public (which is also probably why he alone gets stuck with the unhireable reputation).

From Amber, we know that a) Cameron has a reputation for compassion and caring and wanting to help people and b) "this is why people find you annoying." We know in S5 for example that Cameron runs community outreach programs, she takes on extra work, she's helpful! But people do seem to find her annoying. My theory is she's sort of like one of those vegans who love to tell you how great being vegan is and how you should be vegan, and you're like Cameron. That's great. I'm glad that works for you. I don't want to do 16 hours of overtime feeding the homeless this week.

As established, Chase is an asskissing nepobaby opportunist who will screw anyone over to help himself. He's a flirt — although (I actually like this) the show actually does show all his hookups as being fairly polite and both-sided, like, there's no "ugh, I can't believe I slept with that fuckboy!"; whenever Chase is shown with a one night stand they're both like "haha what was your name again? lol see ya!" — even in the "three hookup wedding" he's on perfectly good terms with all three of the women after. Which is nice. He's still a dumb whore opportunist, but he doesn't treat women badly. Good for him.

It's a little harder to say what later teams reputations are, because over time the show shifts focus kinda. Park absolutely has a terrible reputation — she's the Weird Resident Who Punched Her Boss. Taub seems to float around inexplicably popular and well liked despite fucking more nurses than Chase does. Kutner was apparently considered enough of a liability that Cuddy tried to draw a rare line to keep him from getting hired. Everyone hated Amber. I feel like Thirteen's reputation is True Neutral: no one knows a goddamn thing about her, but she never does anything to really piss them off, either.

especially after the entire hospital finds out that chase the flirt is hooking up with cameron the noble in supply closets?

I think we know this too! Namely, in Fetal Position, when the news is out, Cuddy and Foreman both make a point of speaking to Cameron and Chase about it. And what they both say is "Chase is gonna break Cameron's heart. Oh no, poor Cameron. She's gonna be so hurt." And in Foreman's case: "And that will be so annoying for me." (Foreman is such a hater and I love him)

And of course the irony is that no, Chase is the one who got hurt. Repeatedly! But it says a lot about people's perceptions of them both. Chase is assumed to be unfeeling and uncaring. Cameron, everyone figures, is probably already head over heels in love. I bet most people thought he seduced her.

[mrs-nate-humphrey]

okay okay in sorry, but 40000 WORD DATE ENEMIES TO LOVERS???? im sorry if ive missed something, but please please PLEASE elaborate, becuase already obsessed and going insane and on the edge of seat over this

i don't think i've ever gone into it Properly, to be honest! i've mentioned it a few times. but essentially it's like... sort of a rewrite spanning pre-series all the way upto around s3. dan & nate are paired together for a project, they have a misunderstanding that they don't resolve and expect the worst from each other. think dan being mean like he is in 1x03 when he sees nate's gotten darthmouth, like that flavour of mean, think nate in 2x06 before he befriends dan, when he's yelling at him about "no wonder serena broke up with you" -> that's what they expect from each other, and that's how they interact... for a significant chunk of time.

a 101 other things are happening parallelly. dan & blair become friends as part of a blair waldorf scheme, nate's family is being nate's family, serena comes back (but there's no romantic derena arc here, chronologically...)- essentially, whatever dan and nate think of each other, their friend groups are overlapping in big ways.

cue the timeline heading into s2 territory. dan finds out about nate's housing situation, mostly because, as nate's "nemesis", he's spent a lot of time observing nate, and he can immediately tell when something's wrong, even when other people don't notice it. i feel like i'll end up giving you spoilers if i go down this path for too long, but i will say that dan getting to know nate's big secret + some stuff that happens later involving nate seeing dan in a state of high vunerability kind of shatters the whole ~enemies dynamic~ that they've established. they're allies out of necessity, because they're in situations where they are the only people the other one has in their corner.

and gradually, of course, that evolves into genuine friendship. during the college arc, nate has a moment of realising that he's queer, and even more horrifying, realising that he likes dan. (dan's been aware of his own queerness + his own feelings for a while.) stuff happens. they get together. serena, blair, and vanessa are very gleeful.

i think it'll be 40k minimum, because as of now, i've written 10k of it, and plot-wise, i have.... not covered much ground, so if i have to incorporate everything in my outline with the same level of detail that's currently there in my WIP, it'll easily hit 40k, maybe even 50-60 if we're lucky. it's been years since i wrote anything this long, so i don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, and all that - but this is an estimate based off a very detailed outline that i have and am using to write this fic.

sadly, i am also not particularly good at whipping out longfic very fast, unless i am in a VERY big hyperfixation stage (even then, the fic i speedwrite has never exceeded 15k.) you might be waiting on this WIP for a while, because i wanna write a little more before i begin posting chapters. that said!! this fic is very close to my heart and i am so excited to share it with people, whenever it's in a state that is shareable, hahaha.

[rinisbowen]

i think people fail to realize that tim has never had a couple break up because someone explicitly got in the way and he won’t start doing it now. he’s all about healthy breakups and people realizing why they’re not right for each other. ricky tried to get nini back while she was with ej, but the ultimate reason ej/nini broke up was because of ej’s insecurities and him doing things behind her back. rini broke up because they outgrew each other and were dealing with their own communication issues. lily, like you said, was a catalyst. she pointed out the issues that were already there.

in s3, if ricky/gina/ej are in a love triangle, it’s not going to be some big thing where ricky’s trying to get in the way and gina has to choose between the two (all things you’ve said). i see a situation similar to 2a with gina where ricky pines and realizes things about how he feels but doesn’t act on anything. as a rina, the thing we want the most is ricky’s pov and him making the effort when it comes to rebuilding his friendship with gina. we only ever saw how gina felt and i think it’s intentional that things were left so open ended with rina overall and from ricky’s end. we don’t know how he interpreted what gina said on opening night and contrary to popular belief, i truly think he’s oblivious about gina’s feelings toward him. i’m interested to see how and if they’ll explore ricky’s perspective on everything.

as for gina, i don’t think she’s 100% over her feelings for ricky but her focus will be on ej and trying to make it work. based on what tim said, they may not even be a couple when the season starts and gina has a lot she still needs to learn about ej. now i may be biased as a rina, but that coupled with tim saying rina’s story isn’t over yet, the high school reunion comment, and the emphasis on the fact that rina has never talked about that night makes me believe that rina is the intended endgame for the show. i can get a lot more into it thoughts but this is already long. i really liked your response to that last ask bc of how unbiased you were and just felt like adding my two cents

hiya there! thanks so much for this ask, i truly apologize for taking so long to answer it. i was so excited to see such a neat analysis and such, but i also like to try to address all parts of an ask so- this is a lot of words haha.

also thank you so so much for being so kind, i'm glad you liked my answer. it's kind of fun being in this fandom and not having a horse in the race for those two ships haha. and i'd love to hear more of your thoughts if you'd like to ever :)

--

tbh you're so spot on with that first part. not a single instance of a breakup in a triangle type situation has been caused by a third party. a third party can be used to expedite the breakdown, but they cannot get directly in the way. it's just not good for the character development of any of the people involved to do it that way. i don't think tim has any plans of using that sort of plotline in the future, as he hasn't in the past.

ricky didn't break up ej and nini. he did try to get nini's attention while she was with ej, but ricky didn't cause that breakup like you say. ricky's voicemail isn't even the catalyst for ej taking nini's phone and causing their breakup, but the voicemail is just what gets ej caught through ricky. ricky helps catalyze that breakup, and he does it unintentionally in fact. nini never had to choose between ej and ricky, which is for the better bc that's just a head and heart question. mr. perfect on paper vs. the guy she loves but broke her heart. lily didn't break up ricky and nini. if lily didn't point out what the rose song was, ricky would've figured it out eventually. he already had an inkling, but he didn't want to admit it to himself. plus- the rose song was not the whole of the problem, obviously. the two were unable to communicate in a meaningful way. "so honesty is a problem now?" is tbh a good way to sum that up.

--

EXACTLY. ricky/gina/ej as a love triangle in season 3 only works if ricky's just quietly realizing his feelings for gina, and pondering about it from afar. tbh what you're saying about rina shippers wanting to get ricky's pov is what's pretty much been my understanding of it. like i said in another ask, rina has to start from ricky's side for it to make sense. it's his turn to put in the effort and such. plus we didn't get his pov in a feelings sense, and you're not wrong that there's no confirmation as to whether or not he understood gina's confession. i've seen a lot of people say the fandom is babying him when that kind of thing is brought up, but i think that's a bit of a silly criticism. while i think it could go either way, i would be willing to say that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that he didn't understand.

in tim's end of season 2 interview, when he talks briefly about ricky calling lily, he mentions that ricky does stupid things sometimes, because he's a dumb teenage boy. and that we see that it's dumb, but he's not there yet. and then in some other interview i remember him saying something else about how he's the kind of dumb teenage boy who just- truly doesn't get that he's hurting you and is super oblivious. ricky does seem to need stuff spelled out for him a lot, which is why i'm willing to entertain the possibility he didn't get the message. it's not until lily spells it out that he even partially entertains her in the finale.

i don't think they can do rina and have it make sense if they don't make ricky the one to initiate things this time around, and they don't show him genuinely caring for her in a way that's clear, and about her.

--

ej and gina may not be together-together in the season opener, this is absolutely true. and while i won't get into that a ton in this ask bc i did answer one about this specific point, it's an interesting thing to consider. it means that the arc is being extended longer for one thing, but it also means there's a clarity the two need to find together. gina's going to be focusing on ej and this first new relationship of hers, and while i think people can definitely have their own interpretations on the status of her feelings for ricky, if they're still there, they're going to go on the backburner for the foreseeable future. there's a lot that ej and gina need to explore together, and i think they've been very beneficial to each other's character arcs, and this summer together can be good for them whether or not the relationship continues past summer's end.

i think the fact that they haven't talked about the confession since season 1 does allow them to bring rina back a lot more easily. because it leaves things open! i said this in an ask, but i think that's probably one of the nice things about being a rina shipper. despite the fact that there's not a lot that's on the table at the moment, there's not a lot that's explicitly off the table either. it allows a lot of room for speculation and considerations for potential story between them going forward.

i personally will say i think if there's a rina reunion in the cards of any solid romantic proportion it has to wait for season 4. if there's rina in season 3, it's going to be on ricky's end, and he's not going to chase gina the same way he tried to chase nini for a bit in season 1. he learned that that was dumb and he stopped. PLUS, his behavior was only rewarded when he stopped pursuing her. he's not going to do that again bc he doesn't need to retrace those steps. not to mention he's probably starting the season off trying stuff with lily. that's going to occupy him for a bit.

[cuteandtwisted]

hi wiss! not a prompt but i just read your birthday fic for Even and I found it so touching how you treat his MI with so much care. i don't mean to intrude but do you have an MI? it sometimes sounds like you speak from experience. Do you or someone close to you have a mental illness? and what did Even teach YOU?

Hmm. That’s an interesting question. Interesting because I don’t really know., because I’m not sure I’m articulate enough to answer it. Also it’s 8am and I still haven’t slept/been stranded in airports after 3 flights. And I’m typing this on my phone. It’s funny how I always leak and ramble about myself when I’m exhausted.

Long story short: I’ve never seen a therapist and my mental state is based on what I think I know/things I read. It’s all in my head pretty much, which I realize is the same as assessing yourself physically without going to an actual Doctor. Mental illness was always so taboo in my culture growing up. It was considered a curse, an impairment, a sign of weakness of character or of bad karma. And it didn’t only speak for you and your deeds. It also spoke for your entire family. Mental illness was something we only heard about but never got to live through. It was that thing that happened to others or to that one obscure/distant family member. It wasn’t exactly real and it wasn’t nuanced either. It was a death sentence so to speak. It was an ending in and of itself.

My first direct exposure to someone with a mental illness was to my uncle. He’s my father’s youngest brother and we’re barely 10 years apart. What’s most vivid about him in my childhood memories are his height, his silky hair, his talent for drawing, although he’s never had any training, and his tendency to smoke too many cigarettes and drink too many cups of black coffee. He also happened to be schizophrenic and delirious. His symptoms started around the time his parents got a divorce and his father (aka my grandpa) got married to one of his students (i know. Wtf). He got misdiagnosed and his meds fucked with his mind a lot. He never got to finish school or pursue his dream to be an artist. I’m always sad when I think of him because he is the perfect example of someone who could have been helped but who was cursed, not by his pained mind, but by society’s stigma. He always kisses my forehead when he sees me and it always breaks my heart when I remember how scared I used to be of him when I was younger. It wasn’t my fault, I later realized. Everyone around me kept telling me that i was to feel afraid. I often hear about him ending up at the police station and at the hospital, and I often heard my grandmother complain about how he ruined her life with his sickness. Terrifying, isn’t it? It doesn’t encourage anyone who might be feeling inadequate to ever speak up.

I personally started to feel /weird/ when I reached the age of 13/14. My parents said I read books I wasn’t supposed to have read when I was younger and that it messed with my thoughts and my mind. I loved philosophy, still do. Questioning my own existence became a thing I practiced religiously. At one point I was convinced I had superpowers and that I could escape reality whenever I wished to. Sometimes, it was pleasant but not really. Like being tickled. It makes you laugh but you don’t necessarily enjoy the loss of control. I thought I could control it, but then I realized that it was controlling me. Sometimes it was terrifying because I didn’t know what was wrong with me and Google wasn’t extremely helpful either. Later I realized that I was experiencing depersonalization/derealization and that I wasn’t that special. Recoiling into one’s mind to the point of no longer being able to perceive reality was something many others experienced. I was almost disappointed to learn that I wasn’t special.

I went through some terrible experiences around that time and my moods started fluctuating. I would go from elated to extremely down, never leaving my room. My parents were constantly traveling so they didn’t really notice. It didn’t help that I was an extremely proud, reserved, contrary, and cunning teenager. My mind was my best asset and I used to my advantage. Another thing that duped most was my ability to pretend that I was fine all the time. I could be crippled with sorrow and still have a smile plastered across my face. I could entertain groups of 10 for hours then go home and cry until sleep found me. I was proud, stubborn, ‘strong’. And strong people didn’t admit to feeling weak and needing to just sleep it off sometimes.

At one point, I convinced myself that I was bipolar. I even wrote it in my diary and my anonymous blogs back then. I didn’t know much about it. I just knew that my mood swings and my depersonalization episodes had to be attributed to something. Again, i never saw a therapist, so it was all BS. I also never splurged to the point of mania. (However, I do spend money recklessly sometimes. I do jump on flights at the last moment, buy the most stupid shit just for the heck of it, shove my tongue down strangers’ throats just to feel something, drink until I’m blind and throwing up against walls. I do feel larger than life sometimes, slightly invincible, convinced I’m special and have some insight into human nature, convinced i can see right through people and read their minds. I have my moments. But don’t we all?

I also do feel down sometimes to the point of not leaving my bed for days, ignoring everyone’s calls and messages, and just curling around myself in the dark. I do. I do. But don’t we all?

Control and pride are all I have, however. So you won’t find me whining about my feelings or my mood swings in real life.)

I kept entertaining my self-diagnosis and remained convinced I was bipolar until I first met a diagnosed bipolar person at the age of 17. I didn’t know he was bipolar back then, just that people called him ‘crazy’ and a ‘fucking liar’. I knew him as my boyfriend’s best friend/neighbor. I thought he hated me for the longest time. I even imagined that he was secretly gay and in love with my boyfriend. But he wasn’t. I asked him point blank why he hated me one day and he replied with “i don’t. I’m actually in love with you.” I still remember that day so vividly. My boyfriend and I thought he was joking. He wasn’t.

My bf and I eventually broke up, after which he got shipped to another city, but I maintained my weird friendship with his best friend/neighbor. He transferred to my school when we were juniors and I took it upon myself to introduce him to people and show him around. He walked me home on Friday afternoons and made me playlists which we listened to on his iPod. We shared his earphones as we walked to my house. He started writing me poems and posting them on facebook. He called me his 'colombe’ which translates to 'his dove’ and he became fixated on me to the point of following me in the streets when I was out with friends. I remember the night he stood outside of a McDonalds with a cigarette between his lips staring at me through the window. I started feeling scared. I rejected his advances and his poems were dark and accusatory now.

He came to school with a bandaged wrist once and i was afraid of asking him what happened. My english teacher pulled me aside at the end of class that day and asked me if it was true that I had pushed him down the stairs and caused his wrist injury. I denied it because it wasn’t and i started feeling slightly terrified. The guy left a note in my bag that day and stopped me during recess to ask me to not open it until i got home.

I opened it as soon as I finished an exam early and went outside waiting for everyone else to come out. It was dark and chilly. It was November. The note he wrote me was another poem and it was written in ?blood? I was shocked and I questioned it as much as I could. It could have been red nail polish. It could have been anything. But why do this to me? Why? I didn’t understand. He came out of the school and i snapped and it was just the two of us in the dark. He had followed me outside but i was so angry and confused that i failed to see that it was just us two now. I asked him what the hell was going on and he said that he cut himself because of me and of how i treated him and that he wrote me a poem with his blood. I think i might have called him crazy. I don’t remember. I was experiencing shock in its purest form so I don’t remember everything I said.

And then he hit me. He shoved me hard against the wall and he hit me across the face, then he said that he loved me and that I didn’t understand. I still remember how the blow felt like nothing. The worst had already happened. I internalized that hit so much, and perhaps I still do. I was tiny compared to him. I can fight people, but I was shocked by how utterly powerless I was at that moment. My limbs had just stopped functioning. And to this day I still find it hard to let my guards down around men or anyone physically capable of overpowering me. Biology, and all. My best friend came out of nowhere and a fight broke because he had me pressed against a wall. Then we all went home. I never told anyone that he hit me that night. I was too proud. I still can’t believe that it’s something that happened to me.

I cut my bangs to the side that night to hide my bruise, and thankfully I have brown complexion so it wasn’t that bad. I avoided him like the plague after that, even when he crawled back to me begging for forgiveness. He later sent me long messages explaining his diagnosis and his bipolar and how he had developed an ‘obsession’ with me, how it wasn’t really him doing those things. But I couldn’t find it in me to forgive him. Being mentally ill doesn’t condone shitty behavior, it doesn’t condone physically assaulting someone. I don’t know. He traumatized me.

I developed some sort of stigma after that. I was kind of like S3 Isak (which is why i think the show changed me so fucking much) I 'chose’ to stay away from 'mentally ill people’ to 'protect myself’.

The guy in question did continue being a shitty person until everyone around town knew to avoid him. He played girls and called them sluts and lied about everything and everyone and he was just pretty horrible. And it took me some time to understand that it wasn’t because he was bipolar. It was simply because he was an asshole.

I did develop empathy for him later on when I stopped being so angry and blaming myself for everything all the time. I guess I realized that some have it harder than others? Maybe his shitty behavior was a byproduct of how he had been treated so far? Maybe it was his only outlet, his only way of lashing out against the world for 'inconveniencing’ him with an imbalanced brain? I don’t know. But i forgive him now. Because I’m sure he wasn’t always terrible. I’m sure he has lived through his fair share of horrible things. I’m sure those weeks he spent in bed were daunting. I’m sure people weren’t always gentle with him. I forgive him but i will never forget. Because some people go through hell and still choose to be kind. Because what he did, using his bipolar to justify his awful actions, is selfish and only perpetuates the stigma around bipolar.

I guess this is why SKAM changed my life so drastically? The only depiction of bipolar i had been exposed to was from this guy who traumatized me and all the crap on TV that either romanticized it or simply turned it into a trope and showed people who suffer from it as helpless and completely delirious with no chance of ever leading a normal life. I’m grateful for SKAM because not only did it erase my previous biased and erroneous views which were influenced by a rather unfortunate event, but it also made me do research and read about it and learn more. I fell in love with Even and his mind and his kindness and all the love he has in him. Life can throw crap at you, but you can still choose to be kind. And that’s what Even and his story taught me. Mental illness is not a death sentence and you can still be loved and happy

Back to your question, I guess, I still haven’t paid a visit to a therapist lol. I’m scared i might find out something about myself that i won’t like. I’m scared of being called out on my bullshit. I’m scared of leaking like a broken faucet. I get dizzy thinking about some of the crap I went through and I sometimes think it’s better left in pandora’s box, that it’s better to keep the lid on. I don’t know. Sometimes my life feels like some really badly written CW show. But I’m still happy with where I am today. Always. One day i’ll organize my thoughts and write something meaningful about the storms in my mind. But until then, i’ll borrow the voice of fictional characters to work through some of my personal experiences.

Sorry about the rambling. I’m SO angry at Delta airlines right now. I had to channel that anger into something else haha.