#not tagging anything else because I cba with antis

[memes-saved-me]

Billy Hargrove and implied Queerness

First off this is focusing on his scenes without Steve because we've all seen those and....they're pretty homoerotic to say the least so I will be bringing your attention to the other factors which lead people to believe Billy is gay or interested in men and not so much women. This isn't very indepth but more surface level observations I've made and seen others make.

(TW: Homophobia and slurs discussed)

Season 2

The first scene we get of Billy he is instantly sexualised by those around him. Tina and Vicki taking interest in him based on his looks while Carol watches on rather unamused. This sets a trend for his character and his relationship with his looks and body, but more importantly how he uses it to his own advantage. Of course this was done to play into the 80s bad boy who all the high school girls fall for but what I'll explain later makes it much more interesting.

The next we see of Billy is with Max on their way home. During this scene he insults the looks of the high school girls, referring to them as cows. We then get a very interesting line "Yeah, we're stuck here and who's fault is that?" Which Max replies to with "Yours."

A response that instantly angers Billy to the point he demands she take responsibility for moving to Hawkins. A topic that has clearly been discussed before because Max's reaction implies this has happened before if not multiple times.

In Runaway Max, which isn't confirmed canon and contradicts a lot of stuff but, we are told that the reason they moved was because Billy was completely off the rails to the point he broke her friends arm. Now. Does that make sense in blaming who's fault the move was? If this is the case it is obviously Billy's fault so why does he keep saying it was her who caused this? She clearly liked being in California so why would she do something to make them move. Unless it was unintentional...

This heavily implies that there is an unspoken incident which involves them both. An incident which triggers such anger and recklessness in Billy to the point he almost runs over Mike, Lucas and Dustin because Max wouldn't say it was her fault. Many have then filled in this gap with Max accidentally telling either Neil or Susan about Billy and another boy, which would make sense with the information or lack of information we are given in canon about the reason they moved.

While at Tina's Halloween party we do not see Billy interact with a single girl. He is seen with Tommy and another boy who then approach Steve with him. It would make sense for girls to be drooling over him in this moment, trying to dance with him or following him inside but no. He makes a beeline for Steve and we do not see him for the rest of the party.

Now, I don't know about you but have you ever seen a teenage boy look less interested in his date? Not only is he not interacting with verbally but also physically. He then gets angry when she calls Max his sister and they drive off without a word. It's implied he is taking her home as he they were waiting for Max, meaning he was probably going to hook up with her but if he was wouldn't he act just a little nicer towards her?

I mentioned before that he is the archetype for 80s bad boy and the girls sure are falling, he just isn't catching them. This is the only time we see him interact with a women his age in a romantic way. If you could call this romantic at all.

When in trouble for letting Max run off while watching her, his response is that he doesn't have the time to go looking for her because he has a date, a date we never see or get the name of, this prompts his father to say the line "So that's why you've been staring at yourself in the mirror like some faggot..."

A line that then prompts Billy to snap and argue back after clearly wanting to get out of this situation as fast and smoothly as possible. Where else have we seen anger brought on by a topic? That's right in the car with Max. There is a trend of Billy reacting with anger to conversations or comments he finds personal or as some sort of attack. This is also when Neil becomes fully angry with Billy as seen in his rather shocked reaction at his response to that line.

This also continues the trend of Billy caring about his looks and using them as a shield of sorts, a shield that doesn't work against his father but everyone else he encounters.

Something to keep in mind, Billy is the only character to be called a homophobic slur by a parental figure other than Will. The character he mirrors in multiple ways including having the same full name William, as well as Will being heavily implied as gay or queer. Both of their father's use homophobic language against them, unlike any of the other characters in the show.

The next we see of him after the incident with Neil is also when we see him interacting with another women in a romantic sense. Karen. This is where his use of his looks and body fully come into play. He uses these assets to get information and affection out of Karen to make his father happy and avoid further punishment.

Now this is my own interpretation but Billy is used to using his body for positive attention and doesn't get that any other way. At no point in the series is he treated like a person other than in S3 by Max and Max only. Everyone else views him in an objectified manner or as a bad guy to avoid.

There is a clear resemblance between Karen and Billy's mother which I'll further discuss in the season 3 section but this leads me to believe he is subconsciously or even consciously wanting positive attention from a motherly figure, he just doesn't know any other way to achieve that.

However, it is very clear that flirting with Karen was an act as seen by the quite jarring juxtaposition of these two frames. The mask fully gone once by himself again. Meaning the only time we see him flirt with a women it isn't genuine at all.

Season 3

Now, continuing off the last point, there is countless girls practically drooling over Billy at the pool but he only accepts this attention from Karen. This exemplifies my theory that he doesn't know how to gain positive affection other than through flirting and well sex, but he only wants this attention from an older women who resembles his mother. Except, again he doesn't know any other way of gaining it. He hasn't had a strong positive female influence in his life since he was 10 years old and by the looks of it every motherly figure has treated him as eye candy and not a teenager crying for help.

He has Heather who is very much his age and flirts with him. Yet, he acts as if she isn't even there and goes straight over to Karen to flirt. The way he acts with Karen should be the way he would act with girls his age, flirting and making advances but we do not see a single example of this.

This part I find extremely interesting because it perfectly mirrors his interaction with Karen in season 2, except instead of dropping the mask he puts it on. The way he looks to his right as if she is sitting there as he practices what he is going to say to her is a clear example of his act coming into play as he prepares to meet up with her. His expression very similar to when he leaves the Wheeler home but it shifts to practice the way he is planning on talking to Karen. A complete reversal from their scene in season 2.

A rather reaching piece of symbolism could be that this also mirrors the way Neil cuts off Billy's date in season 2 as the Mindflayer is a literal representation of him being controlled by his father.

I also find it very interesting that he chooses to flirt with Karen very publicly and this might be reading a little too into it but it comes off as trying to uphold some sort of image. Another example of this is Max saying she hears Billy with girls in his room, something that sure is something he would do but when you put this with everything in this post it also comes off as him trying to prove something.

Another thing I find interesting is the way he acts around Karen, all smiles and friendly is very similar to that of the way he acts at dinner with Heather's parents. An act put on by the Mindflayer, just as he does when flirting with Karen. A mask used for underlying means and not what it shows on the surface.

Conclusion

This is all just my observation and he is not canonically gay or queer but the way he acts around women compared to Steve is a very interesting aspect to his character. If they truly intended for him to be this bad boy ladies man then they failed at presenting that.

One final thing, which I have posted about before is the fact Billy does not use homophobic language towards anyone. Even Steve does in season 1 so it would make sense for a teenage boy trying to upstage another teenage boy to use slurs and such to belittle and bully him. Except he doesn't.

I could write a full dissertation on Billy's implied queerness but a unorganised Tumblr post will have to do. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[findingcasualmagic]

I’ve been wanting to make a post for a while about my frustrations with this place and I’ve finally got around to it. It isn’t something that needs to be read, just a way for me to vent my pent-up frustration and just get it all off my chest so I can move on with my life lmao.

I’ve taken a considerable step back from here recently just because I’m so fed up with it. I always thought that if anything was going to make me step away from tumblr it would have been what’s happening with canon robron but turns out it’s actually the fandom :)))))) this place is a fucking mess recently, it’s sucking all of the enjoyment out of the couple for me at the moment and it fucking sucks. This fandom was always such a wonderfully kind place where everyone could go and feel better about what was happening on screen by talking with each other and making everyone feel a lot more positive about the future, but it just isn’t like that right now. Like, for me, especially now it should be a time where we all come together and try to encourage optimism for robron but instead we just have a whole load of discourse, argument and bitchiness which I really cba for, it’s so boring.

I’m not going to lie, I have no proper idea what’s coming up with robron on screen in the near future because I haven’t been watching the episodes or reading spoilers because everything leads to a disagreement of some sort. I’ll scroll my dash after an episode has aired and there’s something that someone has found an issue with which then snowballs into an entire fandom discourse with ‘robert stans’ and ‘aaron stans’ pitted and arguing against each other for no fucking reason, I just ??? Then on top of that we have blogs indirecting and bitching about other people’s posts in their own posts or their own tags and I’m just sat here staring at my phone like……… why is this happening pls. It just seems at the moment an issue is found with absolutely e v e r y t h i n g when it just doesn’t need to be that way. I’m like are people just super bored and trying to find something to talk about? Are we causing issue just for the fun of it? I don’t get it and I really can’t be bothered with it.

Then the other day we had this entire discourse about multi shipping and I was literally like fuck meeeee this is now an issue too? I personally am, if you want to say, an ‘anti multi-shipper’ (fucking ridiculous term but don’t get me started on that), I could never ship the boys with anyone else just because I don’t feel comfortable with that and that’s my opinion which I am entitled to hold. If anyone else on my dash is a multi-shipper then they’re perfectly entitled to feel that way as it’s their opinion, you do you and enjoy what you enjoy, I’ll do me and enjoy what I enjoy. I’m not going to anonymously come into your ask box and try and police what you can and cannot like, that’s ridiculous and people really need to stop doing that, it’s so so silly. I can’t quite get my head around why in this fandom we seem to have such an issue with allowing people to have differing opinions to ours? So long as the person is not being rude or disrespectful then let them do what they want, like it’s really not difficult. One day the discourse will end and then the next morning someone will have restarted it which in turn reignites the disagreement and I’m just like why, it was over, this is so unnecessary. I think that’s why this whole thing is so frustrating for me because all of these issues are so easily avoidable and they’re just being made into massive dramas when they don’t need to be.

On that point, it seems like whenever someone posts an opinion they receive anonymous messages some of which are incredibly rude and unnecessary. Having said that, some anonymous messages are genuinely inquisitive and are met with unnecessarily rude answers, neither of which I am here for. I do think some people are reading too much into messages they receive when people are just trying to better understand opinion and then that too creates more tension which then causes more disagreement and we’re just going round in circles. It does also feel like people are trying to stir up issue with certain posts and just like… can we just refrain from doing that? Everyone just needs to be a little nicer, be a little more tolerant of a difference of opinion and then maybe a lot of these problems would dissipate and just maybe I’d be a step closer to having my happy fandom back.

I mean to evoke no sympathy here but I spent fucking days doing those robron blog love posts and it just feels like it did absolutely nothing lmao? I wanted to use it as a small way of bringing this fandom back together a little and realise that we’re all here in support of the same couple, why can’t that be our main focus? At the moment I’m just like what can I do?? I’m so bored of seeing the fandom in this state but I really don’t see what I can do about it? Like if people aren’t willing to take a step back from being argumentative over everything then we’re never going to get past this.

Of course, every fandom has issues, every fandom has discourse, every fandom has disagreement but this is every single fucking day I come on to find this now and I’m so done with it. If it carries on then I’m just not going to be a part of fandom anymore, I will completely step back and enjoy the couple for myself without all this extra agg. It’s so disappointing because this fandom was, for me, honestly always the best part of this couple and unfortunately it just doesn’t feel like that anymore, and that makes me so fucking sad.  

I just needed to get this off my chest and just let all this frustration with everything go. I guess I just want to see everyone focus on themselves, you do you, you enjoy what you enjoy and let other people enjoy what they enjoy. Find like-minded members of the fandom whose views you share (they’re definitely out there), engage in discussion, try and understand people’s views without putting them down for having those views. If you disagree, that’s perfectly fine, you’re entitled to feel that way, but just don’t be rude about it, it’s not needed. We’re a lovely bunch really, I think we’re all just a little lost at the moment. I would love everyone to refocus their attention on the love in this fandom. Appreciate the wonderful writers, the artists, the gif-makers, the post-makers, the members who post their feelings in tags of reblogs, the silent members, everyone who is involved in any way plays a part in making this fandom what it is. Stick together during the upcoming months of robron which are probably going to be difficult for a number of people in the fandom, make them feel welcome, make them aware that their feelings, whatever they are, are valid as the only way a lot of us are going to get through this is together. Go and tell your favourite blog you appreciate them, go and tell your friend you hope they have a nice day – just try and do a little more every day to ensure the love outweighs the disagreement. All I want right now is my boys back together and my fandom to be happy again, I guess.