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realaaa801 · 4 months ago

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關於Zuandads

看完兩季，第一次粗看便被Silco這個角色吸引，同時也很喜歡他與Jinx間的父女互動，加上Arcane內容中其他的龐大細節，因此便觸動我仔細看第二次。

我想這會是一篇著重於探討Zaundads之間的長文，我不確定，邊想邊寫吧。這一對，我得先感謝我的朋友向我解釋S2E5的大外套小外套是致敬斷背山，並且拉我去看斷背山。(趁機抱怨一下中文能看斷背山的串流不多了，且看且珍惜，��安真的很會說故事。) 如果有看過斷背山，那對於這對的悲劇可能會更深刻一點。沒看也沒關係，看過了就會是二重滋味。接下來將是大量劇透（包含個人視角的藍色窗簾），如果沒看過Arcane兩季，勸先看過再來，這將是一個阿腐的哭嚎與大量廢話。

Arcane的劇組是喜歡對稱的，幾乎喪心病狂的程度。我覺得角色間的關係需要這樣排列一下。親情關係： Vander - Vi（s1e9 Vander在光亮中向Vi說話） Silco - Jinx（s2e8 Silco在黑暗中向Jinx說話）受洗（泡入毒河床）關係： Vander - Silco（暴力殺死"弱小"的Silco） Silco - Jinx（溫柔殺死"弱小"的Powder）治癒關係： Silco - Jinx（收養Jinx後用妝粉蓋起那張因Vander造就的惡魔的面） Jinx - Isha（認識Isha後因失去Silco而瘋狂的一面被撫慰）夥伴關係： Felicia - Vander - Silco（Felicia是兩人的好友，Vander在中間是因為他是拉近彼此的調劑） Vi - Ekko - Jinx（Ekko是兩人的青梅竹馬，本劇最佳sup）外界觀感： Vander - 有人望的，沉穩的，佐恩的獵犬，調停者，明面的佐恩治安維護者。 Silco - 眾人畏懼的，激進的，佐恩的煉金男爵之首，毒梟，幫派掌控者，暗面的佐恩權利鬥士。(美術集似乎提到他是個dirty little thing.*) *chatgpt說法：若語氣帶有批評或不滿，可能是貶低對方、不尊重的表達，暗指對方行為不檢點或不乾淨（不一定是物理上的不乾淨，更多是道德或行為層面）

- (s1e3) Silco: 你想過溺水是什麼感覺嗎? 與傳說相反，水裡很平靜，就好像水在擁抱著你。 (s2e2) Jinx水葬Silco，Silco帶著他熱烈的情感(一身紅衣)回到了平靜的懷抱。

s1e3的開頭，是Silco對Vander最溫柔的告別，那溫柔的口吻很難在之後再見。這裡關於水的形容我認為是在暗諭Vander。 *有一集標題是水與油，儘管這表面上拿來形容Vi與Caitlyn，但Zaundads之間也是如此，Vander沉穩的包容了dirty little things的Silco，水之於Vander便如熾烈的油之於Silco。

人物關係概略如此，Zaundads他��過去是有關係的，在第一季時我如是想。這件事在s2e5得到證實，Warwick躲進最深處的礦道，他想進去的房間裡有��Vander外套包著Silco外套的場景。然後讓我們記住這個s2e5的礦道"深處"。是Zaundads他們曾經的起點，曾經商議作戰的地方。這裡有著"過去"的回憶，是Vander放在內心深處的東西——即使化為野獸也要回去的地方，是他與Silco的過去，他的情感停駐在那裏，深深的暗處，被動的等待。而Silco，在Silco展示了"我他媽放下了"這樣的態度後，在華麗的s1e3的Vander之死後，他收養了Jinx後，搬進了Vander的酒吧樓上，並讓Jinx在那裏留下各種塗鴉——以及他保留了Vander回憶中的那只酒杯。(s2e8中Jinx的點火順序明示了他的辦公室之處) 種種跡象表示Silco是激進的，面對Vander他是主動碰觸的（s2e7）。這意味著一件事，他的動作表明他是這段情感中是主動的那方，他是情感中相對細膩的那方，所以他在感情上他是明面的，他是掌控者。熾烈的紅色，如同他穿在身上的西裝；如同他惡魔之面中燃燒的紅眼。而，當我以為Silco在第一季裡是真的放下與Vander的過往恩仇時，s1e9 Jinx那句悲傷的台詞提醒了我，他沒有，Silco的內心實際上留在那裏，被Vander背叛的那天。（Silco同樣是破碎的。）s1e9的標題「你造就的怪物」我認為這句話也同樣是對Vander說的。當一段感情兩方都停下時，感情便會終結。他們都停在了過去。 Arcane正劇裡Zaundads是明晃晃的悲劇。（幹寫到這裡我好痛苦Zaundads就是40米大長刀有沒有人能理解!!!!!）

第二季時，s2e5敘說了他們的過去。

讓我插一段關於「眼睛符號」這件事，Vander的酒館是黃色眼睛。而Vi與爆爆的兒時住處是Felicia的紫色眼睛符號。當Silco追殺Vi與Caitlyn未果時，他的卑劣、不堪、全都在Felicia破碎的紫色眼睛符號中表露無遺，我認為這也明示Felicia曾經是怎麼與其他人一樣看Silco的。(根據美術集的可能描述Vander是那個唯一的例外；也解釋了Benzo罵Silco的那段話是怎麼回事。) 若仔細觀察鏡頭語言會發現Felicia與Silco在該回憶場景中眼神交會少之又少，而她與Silco恰是最遠的距離。 s2e7，Silco受傷的那隻眼睛是白色的眼白，淡黃色��眼睛。恰如Vander酒館眼睛符號的顏色，也暗示他那隻眼睛沒有受過需要使用微光治療的重金屬汙染；且Vander的右手沒有當年Silco留下的刀傷。 (可以在回憶中看到受洗事件Silco往Vander右手插入不小的刀傷並導致他以後長年帶著遮蓋這個部位的皮套。) 雖然Jinx說如果Silco如果有讀到s2e5那封信事情或許將有所不同。但我想應該是要在更早之前。 Silco在正劇裡用高領與領巾保護了自己的脖子，因為他在正劇中受洗事件裡被Vander在毒河床裡掐脖幾乎窒息至死。而美術設定集表示了年輕的與s2e7的Silco大方露出脖子，情感相對纖細的Silco既然沒有保護脖子是否能猜測：如果當年受洗時的Silco那時候因恐懼想逃，而Vander放走他而不是將人強硬抓回去，也許他們就有可能進入s2e7的世界線吧...（因為Silco是兩人間主導感情的那方）

- 讓我多說點關於s1e3的事，這一集兩人的細節太多太多了。不管是Silco直接抓人而Vander��處於被動的；Vander最後才解開的右手（那裏有Silco造成的傷，象徵他仍困在Silco身上）；又或是當Vander真正造成暴力行為而Silco第一時間是逃這件事（因為受洗事件讓Silco對於這件事仍然懼怕，他至今仍在保護他的脖子）；又或是Vander那近乎親密的、因暈厥而慣力的向前靠肩，但Silco無情推開；這些細節都很痛。 Silco的感情之濃，s1e3時他沉入水底看到的紅色，紅色除了是鮮血，也是情感的象徵色。在他的視角裡鮮血裡泡著Vander （亦悲劇的表示了Vander將成Warwick），那是Silco最濃烈的感情，所以他停留在那一天。 s1e3的兩人都有兩面性，他們在角色外型上幾乎對稱了，請務必細品對談時兩人的對稱點，句句虐刀刀虐。尤其Silco這個角色有兩面性，重溫Arcane時真的是...唉，Silco可能是設計的最有層次的角色了。本劇個人認為最棒的互文亦跟他有關。 (s1e9) Jinx說Silco停在Vander背叛他的那一天。 (s2e9) Jinx聽了Silco的話（s2e8），徹底走出迴圈。THE END。 -

劇組，我真的好需要類似s2e7的和平世界線，我已經困在Arcane裡三個星期，我被困在Zaundads的種種細節裡，每發現一點就是一個刀點，即使我真的缺鈣，也不至於要在CP上舔骨灰對嗎? Zuandads真的是，我哭死。

#zaundads #arcane #vanco

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yanderefairyangel · 2 months ago

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Whenever localization discourse explode I just wanna bang my head against a wall

The issue isn't even that people are criticizing localization but that they criticize it for ANY reasons and they don't understand what makes a good translation from a bad one

To them, it has to be a literal translation as if google pooped that up, anything that look like a deviation just get them mad when these only matter in context of what is changed and how does it affect the text

Speaking as someone who likes to translates songs, the reason it's hard isn't because they are hard to understand but because the poetic side of the song vanishes in literal translation. When you listen to them, it all feel so rich, elaborate but when you look at literal translation of the lyrics all of these falls flat and ultimately, a lot of it comes from how japanese lyrics operates, they can be very synthetic and full of puns that a literal translation can't render

To take an example of a work I did recently for Yura's Maiden collector

This line

混ざり合う　黒と　くろと　クロ

Word for word it gives :

mixed together black black and black

Japanese is a SOV (subject-object-verb) language, much like Latin and acient greek. But english is a SVO language (subject-verb-object) so the orders has to be changed. However, the variety in the lyrics and the pun comes from the fact that "kuro" is spelled in 3 ways : in kanji, in hiragana and in katakana.

Another line reading as

混ざり合う　赤と　黒と　闇（クロ）

word for word : mixed together red black and dark (black)

Then we have these two lines

混ざり合う　黒と　黒と　黒が (mixed together black and black and black)

交ざり逢う　血と　影と　鴉（crow）(mixed together blood shadows and crow)

There is a furigana indicating yami has to be read "kuro" with the word being spelled in katakana, and in the last line mazari au is spelled differently and the furigana indicates that karasu must be read as "crow", these are puns in the song to create further parallels

the lyrics as a whole are very fragmentary meant to reflect the vision/perception of the narrator as being limited and feels like a stream of consciousness due to the lack of coherence in the narration

These recurring lines are meant to reflect the confusion of the narrator and they are written to end on a "o" sound

The only exception is the line : 囚われた　涙と　肢体 (word for word : captured tears and limbs)

Translating these are pretty challenging, but given how the motif in the text was to end it with a color (as seen per the final line of the song) and to try to make it seemed as fragemented as the japanese I personally choose to not change the "mazari au" from its place even though in normal times as a result it gave

Everything mixes : kuro to kuro to kuro

The reasoning ? the context of the song where the narrator's perception is limited as seen per the weirdness of seeing black mixing together, and the use of ":" allows to place "mazari au" in the begining sentence.

To render the change in spelling for black, I choose to simply translate it as a gradation : black, jet black, pitch black

While japanese have actual words to distinguish the shades of black that aren't used in the text (such as ankoku or shikokku), the text presents different way of spelling kuro and just translating it as "black" feels flat when the song is trying to highlight the sound "o" in the choruses, so the simpliest way to handles this was simply to translate the others "kuro" by using different shades of black. I did the same thing to translate "yami (kuro)" since in japanese, you can say "闇色" to refer to a shade of black. This would allow the word to restitute both the text and the furigana, so I went with "midnight", which is the name of a shade of black and the image of the night helps figure the idea of darkness

Plus, the 交ざり逢う　血と　影と　鴉 follows the same idea. Given the furigana, it's a pun based on how japanese pronunication of the word "crow" ressembles the word "kuro". Moreover, "crow" and "shade" are the name of shades of black. This line could enlight the nature of the repetition of the previous lines : the narrator progressively figures the nature of these colors. The red that appear in the second chorus is the blood evoked while the shade and crow refers to the shades of black she had been sensing

However I did not do that to translate "混ざり合う　黒と　黒と　黒が", for as you can see "kuro" is always spelled in kanji this time so rather than go for different shades of black not even having a way to justify this choice, instead I added intensifiers : "Everything mixes : the black, more black, even more black-" to add to the idea that this time, it was repetition both textually and phonetically in the text and because of the "ga" at the end of the sentence. "ga" is used to indicates the subject of a sentence so there should be a verb, but there isn't. The sentence ends there. Ga can also be used to create a dynamic in the sentence so I thought that intersifiers would help resititute the intensification you can hear in in the song

I am taking this example specifically because it's a complicated one

I am by no means saying my translation is perfect (true be told Meriole's translation of Yura's songs surpassed mine, no contest); I am giving an example of why "changes" have to be made sometimes, we don't want a text full of flavors to lost its flavors in translation do we ?

So we have to make some efforts to offer quality in the phrasing to restitute what was meant in the og sentence

Also keep in mind, I am not a professional localizer, I am just some girl doing this for a hobby, if I have to go through these to make these, imagine what a professional translator must go through

And it's not to say you can't criticize localization at all, you can still question their choices but a great chunk of time, when people do, they just complain something was changed, they never try to explain why the change is bad

You know I have nothing against criticizing localization I do it a lot of times, especially with Engage discussion specfically because Treehouse's choices often removed the nuances and flavors in the og text. Granted, there are some instances where it's flat out impossible to render but a lot of time, the dialogue turned out to be flatter, over synthetic, the removal of X or Y informations is strange and when they try to flesh out some lines it feels... weird... out of place

Sometimes adding a word can completely change the meaning of a sentence and those are things we have to be careful of but that doesn't mean it's always a bad thing, it entirely depends on how the localization does that

I mean let's take a famous example

We all remember the "Elise, when do you intend to act like the adult you technically are?" line in fates, meant to translate Leo calling Elise a brat

Well, what if I told you that Treehouse could have actually still make this change but miles better ?

Instead just translate it : " Elise, you are not a child anymore ! so stop acting like you are one !"

That simple. That would convey the change they wanted to make in a way that doesn't sound unnatural.

The point is that yes we can criticize localization but there is a WAY to do it and half of the time, it's not even a change, it's a turn of phrase made so that the meaning stay the same but the character's personality that already exists can shine :

(yes someone complained about this choice of translation, that's how low the bar is)

So if I had to make a guess that would be that the translation choice makes Estelle sound more violent in english

However : 1- the literal translation "it''d be better for you to surrender now" implies that if the person Estelle is talking to doesn't surrender, something back is going to happen to them so yeah, it's threat

2- in the japanese text, Estelle is already talking in a very familiar way. japanese is a very contextual and connoted language, this makes it also very synethic, in a few words, tons of idea are expressed via how they are said, the use of words, of conjunction transpire of the identity of the speaker

Therefore there are only 2 possible alternative to this choice, either "Surrender, that's the best for you" which sounds unnatural and clumsy or "You better surrender now !" which sounds natural but flat, lastly we have "Surrender now, or else"

Now which one sounds better ? Well, if you ask me it's the "surrender now, or else" since it's the implied meaning, the localization took it and run with it and... i see no problem with it it doesn't change her character here

At the end of the day, every translation betrays the original text, the problem comes depending on how much it is and whether or not it harms the quality of the whole thing

Lastly, I'll add tha Japanese singers can sometimes release a english cover made by themselves of a song they did previously in japanese and they themselves end up having to do big changes to make it fit !

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kachoushi · 1 year ago

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各地句会報

花鳥誌　令和6年5月号

坊城俊樹選

栗林圭魚選　岡田順子選

………………………………………………………………

令和5年2月1日うづら三日の月花鳥句会坊城俊樹選　特選句

立春を待たずに友は旅立ちし　喜代子習はしの鰈供へる初天神　由季子在さらば百寿の母と春を待つ　同春遅々と言へども今日の日差しかな　都橋桁に渦を巻きつつ雪解水　同盆梅の一輪ごとにときめきぬ　同